The Herd with Colin Cowherd - 3 & Out - Dak doesn't play for money, NFL off-season schedule, USC is scared
Episode Date: May 30, 2024John dives into the latest with Dak Prescott and his comments about how he doesn't play football for the money, do you believe that he doesn't care about getting the most possible money that he can. L...ater, John talks about the comments made by Mike Zimmer where he said that he is not going to change the way that he coaches, should the NFL change their off-season schedule, and USC has been trying to cancel their game against LSU. Lastly, John answers your questions during this episode's mailbag segment. 6:34 - Dak doesn't play for money 18:47 - Mike Zimmer makes headlines 22:41 - NFL off-season schedule 28:57 - USC vs. LSU 36:50 - Other NFL storylines 44:36 - Mailbag Follow John on Twitter, Instagram and YouTube for the latest. Check out Gametime - the fastest growing ticketing app in the US, and the official ticketing app of 3 & Out and GoLow - for tickets to all of your favorite NFL, NBA, NHL, NCAA teams. Concert and comedy show tickets, too. Go to Gametime now to create an account, download the app and use code JOHN for $20 off your first purchase. #Volume #HerdSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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What is going on, my people?
John Middellcock, three-and-out podcast.
That'd be this podcast and that would be me.
Hopefully everyone is having a good week.
And we're going to talk a little football.
A little old story, but I haven't had a chance to talk about it yet.
Dak Prescott, I don't play football for the money.
And I don't even think he's lying.
Something Mike Zimmer said today, a lot of Cowboys talk, actually,
that I think you've got to be very careful about when you're hiring a new coordinator
and the expectations that come with the scheme that you're looking for.
The NFLPA wants to revamp the offseason,
why it's a moronic idea,
and Lincoln Riley does not want the smoke.
Pretty embarrassing story if you're a USC
fan.
And honestly, this Lincoln situation in USC is,
I got a big red flag over it moving forward.
Something to keep an eye on.
We'll discuss it.
And then just a couple other little things as well.
as a middlecoff mailbag at john middlecoff at john middlecoff is the instagram fire in those dms and we will
read some mailbag questions today got a lot of good ones so we will uh get deep in your guys thoughts
at john middlecoff instagram other than that we had derrick ray who's the gm of florida state came out
on tuesday i did a golf podcast uh with some thoughts in regards to grace and murray suicide
and that whole situation around the PGA tour.
And then today we'll do a football podcast,
probably another football podcast tomorrow.
So a lot of content.
You can find us.
Three and out podcast, subscribe.
Everything's on YouTube as well.
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You know, when most of us first start playing sports, Little League, Pop Warner's, you name it, hockey, soccer, whatever,
like any little kid, you emulate the stars on television.
When I was a kid in Little League, everyone had a batting stance that was like,
Ken Griffey Jr. I personally batted like Jay Buehner.
Didn't even know I was going to be bald at the time.
Didn't work.
I was terrible at baseball.
Or in basketball, you tried to be like Michael Jordan or Penny Hardaway or whoever the cool
players were in the mid-90s.
And it's no different now.
You emulate the stars on television.
It's why Steph Curry in basketball, everyone's shooting threes.
If you were a golfer in the early 2000s, you wanted to be just like Tiger Woods.
But you wanted to play like them.
You didn't think about like, oh, this guy makes all this money.
Because that's not usually how little kids think.
Even through junior high and high school, you just wanted to emulate the best players.
Because it was fun playing sports.
You're playing with your buddies.
You may be good.
You may not be good.
It's just enjoyable.
You truly are playing for the love of the game.
game. And that is basically how every athlete starts playing. For free, it's just enjoyable. And if you're
good at it, colleges start recruiting you, you can go play Division I college sports. It's even that
much more enjoyable. Now, in this modern time with NIL, money starts immediately. But in my era,
and honestly, previously to like three, four years ago, it was just like, I'm not. I'm
really good at sports. I want to keep playing. I enjoy this. So I think most athletes at the professional
level all have the same baseline. I started playing because I was good at it. I enjoyed it. And I
love the game. Now, as you get older, like in any business, you become jaded and elements of money
come in, but at your core, probably more than all of us in all of our given jobs, where money
and revenue is a huge part of our daily vocabulary and how we operate.
It's not really like that in sports, especially if you play professional baseball, professional
basketball, or in the NFL, because you're not worried about the revenue growth.
It's flowing.
So, Dak Prescott, who polarizing player for sure, because he makes a ton of money and is in line for another large contract, whether the Cowboys end up extending him, or whether they let him play this year out and he hits free agency, we've just seen Kirk Cousins get a lot of money, Dak would get more.
He's younger and he's healthy, assuming he doesn't get injured this year.
So the money's going to be there no matter what.
And at this current time, in 2024,
Dak Prescott has generational wealth.
He's made hundreds of millions of dollars.
He's made $160 million on his last contract alone.
And then being the Cowboys quarterback,
given how many commercials we've all seen them in,
I can't even imagine how much he's made off the field.
So whether he played another snap in football ever again,
money's never going to be an issue.
So when Dak Prescott said, I don't play for the money, that is not the reason I play football.
I do, at his core, believe him.
Here's the problem.
Like, I don't believe Peyton Manning started playing football for money.
Like I just said, idolize his dad, was good at it, became a star.
But by early on, in his Colts career, Tom Condon representing him, they took every penny.
possible because money for a player does equate to respect.
Right?
And he's looking at all these other players.
Let's use Jared Gough as an example.
I want more money than that guy.
But that's not the reason these guys play.
And I think you'd go all over the NFL with guys making a ton of money.
Like did Nick Bosa and Christian McCaffrey and Jason Kelsey and Travis Kelsey and Patrick
Mahomes and Josh Allen list off all the pro ball elite players.
Do they play football for money?
Patrick Mahomes is a good example.
Signed for $450 million several years ago.
Is making a boatload off the field.
Has more money than he ever dreamed of having.
Yet when you watch him play, you go, this guy looks like he's playing for a contract.
His effort, his energy, clearly how hard he works, how serious he takes his craft.
So I think most good players in the NFL at their core don't play football necessarily for money.
But the way the business is, the setup of player contracts, it is based on respect.
So most of these guys, once they get to their mid to late 20s and are on their second contract,
have an unlimited amount of money
where especially the high-end guys
where they never think about it
they want this house they could get it
they want to take this vacation
they can do it
their family can do basically whatever they want
this private school we can do this we can do that
but
like when it comes to contract time
I want to be paid more
than this guy
it's really no different than all of our jobs
if all this information was public
If you knew the dude next to you at the cubicle
that you are better than at your job,
you make more money for the company
was making 25% more than you,
you'd probably have an issue with it.
But if you don't know,
and you're highly compensated and business as well,
you're fine.
Part of the issue here is everything's public.
Everyone knows how much everyone makes,
which is not normal basically in every day,
industry. Yet in football with the players, everyone knows to the penny what the other guy is
making, how much their bonuses, how much their guaranteed money is, what their cash flow is,
what their actual contract is, word for word, line for line. There was an article on the athletic
within the last three or four months about the uphill battle assistant coaches in the NFL
have had to fight to learn what other assistant coaches are making.
And they have got together doing this thing at the combine
where they kind of huddle up and tell each other their salaries
so they know when they're negotiating for themselves.
Because without it, you're kind of flying blind.
You're like, yeah, they're offering me 400 grand.
It's incredible.
Well, it's like the average position coach
with your level of tenure in the National Football League,
who's having success makes 650 grand.
So you are vastly underpaid relative to your job.
But if you don't know that, it might be a lot of money to you.
And the players don't have to worry about that
because they know exactly how much everyone makes.
So it gets complicated.
Business is complicated.
It's emotional.
It's cutthroat.
And for most of us, right, like money matters.
because you got to pay the bills,
you got to feed your children,
like with inflation.
Most human beings, I mean,
the medium income in America is like $60,000, $65,000.
And depending on where you live,
you could make $150,000, and it be equivalent to that.
Because you live in San Francisco,
you live in Los Angeles, you live in New York,
you live in some of these places that are very, very expensive.
I've always said this, money's all relative.
But in the NFL, with the highest,
paid positions when you're a pro bowl level player, it's about ego. Because you don't necessarily
need the money to live when you're talking about a third contract. You've already made a ton of cash,
but it is about respect. So I saw a lot of takes flying around that he's full of shit, he's disingenuous.
I do believe him. I think Dak Prescott, like the majority of good players in the NFL,
play football, one, because they're good at it, two, they enjoy it.
It's fun to do what you're good at, especially in a public forum where millions of people watch.
And everyone knows your name.
Even if when you have shitty games, everyone has a negative take and a criticism toward you.
It still beats being a plumber, as Belichick said.
But this is all about ego, and this is all about respect relative to his peers.
Right?
And that's what I think this comes down to
and why it makes it a pretty complicated case.
And when you're not an elite guy,
which DAC is not, which Cousins is not,
and your team is not winning big,
they think twice.
It's why Minnesota ultimately let Cousins walk.
It's why Dallas is kind of in this predicament
with Dak Prescott.
You know teams that don't think twice?
The Bills with Josh Allen,
the Chiefs with Mahomes.
You're like, well, the Ravens did with Lamar.
not really.
They gave him like $200 million.
So it's like they ultimately cut the check.
And probably a little more contentious than some of these other contracts.
But it was a unique situation, especially after he got injured that last year.
And I bet they do regret it, playing it out the way they did,
because they probably could have got him a little cheaper if they had done it earlier.
But ultimately got done.
Lamar Jackson was never going anywhere else.
And that's usually the case with the high.
high-end guys. Everyone else, like, yeah, do I really want to pay you $50 million when we can't
win a playoff game and you don't play well in those spots? Like, it's a legitimate conversation.
But whether the Cowboys pay him or whether another team pays him, he's going to be a rich guy who
gets even richer. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the
enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way,
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A win is a win.
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Mike Zimmer had a comment today,
and the headline was clipped by a lot of people.
Because he said,
we've got to do it the way I want it done
in terms of the way they run the defense
and everyone's like this old crumudgeon egomaniac
Mike Zimmer
when you hire a veteran coordinator
offensive or defensive
you can't expect them
if they're inheriting a really good unit
on offense or defense
to do when they run a different scheme and have for a long time
to do what the previous coordinator did.
That is a recipe for failure.
Mike Zimmer is not Dan Quinn,
and Mike Zimmer also admitted.
Usually when I've been hired in the past,
it's an awful unit.
It's bad.
So I get to basically start from scratch.
That's not the case here.
This unit for years now has been very successful,
minus the playoff game, which was pretty ugly.
But I'm not Dan Quinn.
I don't run his defense.
And I'm not going to try to.
It's not what I was hired to do.
I was hired as Mike Zimmer to run this unit.
Now, obviously, if there are similarities in some of the concepts,
there were successful for Dallas,
he would be a bad coach to not continue running some of those things.
But you can't expect a new coordinator
to do what the old coordinator did
when they don't have the same football philosophical beliefs
when it comes to defense.
So the moment Dan Quinn left, unless you were going to hire another Pete Carroll disciple, the defense was going to look different schematically.
It doesn't mean they're going to take a step back in terms of their production, but it's not going to be the same.
And the players are going to have to learn new terminology, new ideas, new responsibilities.
Welcome to football.
Now, is it going to work?
it's obviously not an easy transition,
but here's what I'd say.
Mike Zimmer's good.
Just like Vic Fangio's good.
I've seen it for a long time.
When you see good older coaches, you go, this can work.
Now, it's also incumbent on them to adapt as football adapts
and change philosophies that might have worked in 2016 or 17 or 18
that no longer are as applicable as they are in 2020.
So it's on them to change and make adjustments.
But when you hire new coordinators, you hire them to run their stuff.
I just saw it was San Francisco.
They hired Steve Wilkes, who was not a Pete Carroll disciple,
who did not come up running this defense,
and essentially said, hey, you know what Robert Saul and Damiko Ryans did?
Can you kind of do that?
And of course, he wanted a job.
He said, yeah, I'll do it.
And it didn't work.
And then he got shit canned after the Super Bowl.
So, like, if you're going to hire a guy, you have to trust him to run their stuff.
And I think that's a good philosophy to life.
If you're willing to hire, in football, if you're hiring a coordinator, you're paying him seven figures.
So in any industry, if you're willing to pay a guy, $1 million, $2 million, $3 million, whatever,
you better be willing to not micromanage them.
And there's a reason you hired the guy.
If you have any hesitation or question marks, once he's there, you've obviously hired the wrong guy.
And I like the Mike Zimmer hire.
I watched him for years with the Bengals and then obviously with the Vikings.
He's a good defensive coach.
Is he great working with quarterbacks and is he a sensitive guy?
No.
When all he has to worry about is the defense, I'd feel pretty confident.
Something I thought was pretty stupid.
The NFL calendar has been pretty similar for a long time.
Not right.
if you're a player and your season ends, if you miss the playoffs, so now with the 17th game,
let's just pick January 5th is the last game of the season.
You then have a break from January 5th until your offseason starts somewhere early to mid-April.
So that is January, February, March, and then a week or two in April.
That's like a three-month plus break.
and then OTAs in
2004
I got news for you
but relative to the sport of football
are kind of a country club
there are no pads
there are practices three days a week
and you basically just work out
which you would do
anyway and a lot of these guys
have bonuses in their contracts
so you get a three month break you can go to
anywhere in the country if you want to leave
you know where you live
for your team
go home
If you play in California, you go to Florida, you go to Texas, you go wherever.
And then you come back for like two months to work out and train.
And if you're a veteran player, you don't even really need to practice.
A lot of veterans throughout the league just kind of stand on the sideline,
especially if you're recovering from an injury or whatever,
and get paid to do so.
Play golf in the afternoons, go to games, go to dinners.
It's really a pretty chill environment.
till about the middle of June
when you get about a 40-day break
till training camp.
The NFLPA,
which I saw Florio wrote,
did they even talk to the players about this,
want to change this whole calendar.
So basically, after the draft,
there would be no OTAs or whatever.
And it would start either late June or early July,
a month ramp-up period to training camp.
If I was, one, the coaches,
and the executives and the GMs and scouts
would hate this fucking idea.
I know that for a fact.
But if I was a player,
I would hate this idea as well.
Because one, it's voluntary in OTA.
So if I'm a veteran player,
I don't have to show up
beside the one mandatory minicamp.
There's a big V in front of every practice
except one week.
And again, it's not even a week.
It's three days.
Where a lot of teams
don't even practice all three days,
They cut out the third day and let them all go for summer break.
But would I rather have a three-month break and then another month break
or just like a five-month break and then I got to come back in late June or early July
for the rest of the year?
Because once training camp starts, you never leave.
You are there for the year.
And one thing they mentioned is the ramp-up period for younger players.
Well, if I'm a younger player, let's just say I'm not.
a first round pick so I'm not on scholarship. I'm a fourth or a fifth round guy. So if I don't
perform in training camp, I can be cut. Ideally, I go to the practice squad, but still I don't get a
regular season salary. That period, the moment the draft ends and starting in rookie mini camp,
I get all the information from the playbook, which I am going to have to know by when training
camp starts. So then I get several weeks to be with my coaches on the field and in the meeting rooms,
Again, not that hard, country club environment.
And most coaches now, and I've watched a ton of these press conferences, go listen.
These guys have been traveling all over the place.
I know they're out of shape.
We are not looking to break any records here in practice.
Practice has never been easier in the history of the NFL in the middle of May.
I'll promise you that.
But I get to mentally take in all the information.
Then I get a month break plus where I get to hammer that home.
so when training camp starts
one I'm fresh and two mentally now
I've had about two and a half months
to have a pretty good feel
for what these coaches are going to want me to do
I can't imagine any veteran player
wanting any part of this new idea
and two the rookies don't even know what they don't even know
I actually think it behooves them
and is advantageous for their careers
the setup now
because mentally physically whatever
you look good or you look bad in these OTAs, no one really cares.
You're judged in football the moment the pads come on,
and we know for the most part, give or take, August 1st is when the pads come on.
But for me to look good with the pads come on,
I'd better know what I'm doing.
Because if I don't know what I'm doing, where I'm going,
what the coach is going to want me to do, the pace in which we practice,
I have no chance.
So just a couple week ramp-up period before training camp starts,
not everyone learns the same.
Some people can be overwhelmed, you feel natural pressure.
This allows you, gives you a month or so,
around some veteran guys, around the coaches,
get a little bit of your feet wet,
see, like, I'm putting it on an NFL jersey,
I'm putting it on an NFL helmet,
and then I get a month to kind of decompress,
and then I come back with a mental edge.
It's why coaches are so hard on people in training camp,
like, we've gone over this stuff before.
Obviously, there's leeway, you're a young player,
but this idea is moronic.
It is dumb.
And it's obviously run by people who have no clue how anything works.
I've said forever, the league office doesn't give a shit.
One, they're run by business people.
They're not run by former execs.
They're not run by former coaches.
For the most part, they're not run by former players.
All they care about is to get the most money possible,
which is smart.
Like, that's their job.
And they do a great job at it.
But now the NFLPA feels like they're run by people that have no clue about anything.
And when your job is to represent the players, I can't imagine if we polled a hundred players with multiple years experience, they would think this is a good idea or would be on board for this.
So to me, this feels like DOA.
There was a story that came out.
The USC Trojans open up against LSU in Vegas at Mark Davis, not a father.
his Allegiance Stadium.
It's going to be a sweet game.
Week 1.
Trojans against the Tigers.
I think it's 430 kick.
It's probably one of the marquee games of the weekend.
And a story came out that for two years,
Lincoln Riley has been trying to get out of this game.
And in that story,
there was a nugget about Brian Kelly and Lincoln Riley
are both represented by one of the big coaching agents
Trace Armstrong,
who's a former player in the NFL,
represents a ton of high-end coaches
in the NFL in college,
and had him broker a conversation
between the two guys
to try to convince Brian Kelly
to basically cancel this game
and let them play other opponents.
Obviously, USC wants an easier opponent.
Brian Kelly said no.
There's no way around it.
This is an embarrassing story
to get out for USC.
I played golf the other day
with a guy that came in on Reggie Bush's recruiting class
and was on that for five years was on those sweet Trojan teams.
I mean, he's listing off all the players.
It was incredible the talent that was on those teams.
And part of hiring Lincoln Riley to USC was to get the Trojans back to the glory years.
To have them be competing for national championships,
to have them be a top five program every single year in the country.
When you are that, you are not scared of anybody.
You will play anybody anytime, anywhere.
And in 2024, you don't need to be one of the four best teams.
You just have to be one of the 12th.
So USC paid Lincoln Riley $120 plus million.
When you factor in giving him a free house,
when you factor in buying his mansion in Oklahoma,
it's probably well above that.
The moment they did that,
they expected to kick ass and take names, to dominate.
And now two years later, a story comes out that he's begging to get out of this game.
If I was a Trojan fan, I'd be fucking embarrassed.
Brian Kelly, who is going to be under some pressure this year, year three, like Lincoln Riley,
to win the national championship.
Like just making the playoffs will not be good enough.
And he's like, yeah, I want no part out of this.
game we're playing you and this is not a home and home this is in this is a neutral site so if anything
USC which in theory should dominate recruiting on the west coast this should be an incredible recruiting
tool but it feels like he's scared now do i think they're going to win this game i do not do i understand
where it's like i don't want to play a game i'm just going to lose i would somewhat get it if it was
year one like let us get our feet under us you this is going on year three
Like by year three in this transfer portal world, a school with unlimited NIL budget, you should be like, fuck, we'll play anybody.
I look at USC and I told the guy I was playing with, I'm like, I told coward this year.
I don't think it's going to work.
And listen, like most people, I was like, incredible hire.
And then after watching it kind of marinate and just watching his team play, Lincoln Riley is a small town Texas guy who is in factored.
with offense, knows nothing about defense.
And it's shown, because last year their defense was, I mean,
looked like a high school JV team.
It was a joke.
And in Pete's heyday, just like all the good teams over the last, I would say, 15 years,
dominate on defense.
All Sabin's teams, Kirby's teams, Harbaugh's teams,
some of the high-end Urban Meyer, Ohio State teams,
Urban Myers, Florida teams.
It's a point of difference at the highest,
end of college football.
There was downfall last year of LSU,
a program that usually is great on defense.
They were terrible.
They had an elite offense and a below average defense.
And that's why they won, went nine and three.
So you look at Lincoln Riley, you go,
is he a little over his head?
Because at Oklahoma, like,
especially in the Big 12, he was going to win 10 games a year.
And it felt like he ran away a little bit
because of them going into the SEC.
Now, we could argue Oklahoma's,
going to struggle a little bit in the SEC. Okay, you go to USC. You should have more bullets in the gun
to show up with an SEC team and look the same on the field. Your roster should be every bit as good
as LSU, Georgia, Alabama, Ohio State, and Michigan. There's no fucking excuse. And I, if you had to say,
what's your guess on USC's wins this year? Well, they went seven and five last year with Caleb
freaking Williams. So,
They're going to go 10 and 2 this year?
I mean, to me, at best, they feel like an 8 and 14.
And I'm telling you, this heat is going to come fast.
Because if Brian Kelly kicks his ass, then he gets Utah State the following week,
and then he has a buy, and then he goes to Michigan.
Then he plays Wisconsin, then he plays at Minnesota, and then he gets Penn State.
If all of a sudden we're looking up and we're looking at a 3-3 team or a 4-3 team,
people are going to start to wonder
because when you pay a premium,
you want results.
What are college football coach is talking about
all over the country?
Now that we pay these guys
all this money,
the NIL, the collectives,
we expect you to perform.
And if you don't, we got a problem.
It's become very transactional.
Well, football coaching's always been that way.
We pay you to win games.
If you lose games, we got an issue.
When we pay you an unlimited amount of money,
like the super high-end guys,
the pressure is ramped up.
I'm not a huge Ryan Day guy
but look at him this offseason
they doubled down on defense
they started cutting huge checks to get elite dudes
on that side of the ball
and I watch Lincoln Riley
I go I don't even think he understands
I don't think he knows
and if you just had a scrimmage
by year three of Pete Carroll
against Lincoln Riley
they would have injured them
it wouldn't be fair
and I think
I think this is a disaster
there's no other way around this.
And if you're looking at an 8 and 4 team with the USC Trojans
and you just paid all this money for Lincoln Riley,
I don't think we're that far away from talking about
this is just not going to work out.
It really isn't.
And obviously they were at a very low point when they hired Lincoln,
but once you get several years removed from that,
like, hey, we're at USC.
Like, can we make a run in the playoffs?
Or do we have no shot on God's Green Earth?
And now that you're in the Big Ten, even with the 12-team playoff,
like there's no guarantee they're getting an invite.
Like, they're not better in Michigan.
They're not better in Ohio State.
I mean, Penn State's offense is so terrible,
but their defense's elite.
Oregon's way better.
Like, where are they making the playoffs?
What an embarrassing.
I mean, they come out at USC and want out of a game.
I'd understand it's like, hey, we don't want to play the Kansas City Chiefs.
Okay, I get it.
there shouldn't be a team in the country that if they're on your schedule, you don't want to play.
If you're an elite program.
What times the game?
We'll be there.
A couple other NFL stories, some wide receivers got contract extensions.
Nico Collins, who by the end of the season with the Texans,
look like a monster.
I mean, now, obviously he had a career year.
He had 80 catches.
He had over 1,000 yards.
and you just watched him, you're like,
God, this guy's massive, he's making plays, he can run.
He got $52 million contract extension, guaranteed.
I think it was $75 million, three-year extension,
so average out $25 million a year,
but when it's not all guaranteed,
that number is hollow.
But he got a lot of money for a guy with one season.
And I would imagine if you're the Texans,
you feel pretty good about this,
because you kind of get to buy low,
and if he gets banging this out,
that $50 million,
is more like $80 or $90 million when it comes to guaranteed money.
So, listen, I'd be lying if I said I had been watching Nico Collins for years.
I didn't know much about him till last season, but he was hard not to watch and go,
that's not a high-end wide receiver.
I'm not talking Justin Jefferson or Jamar Chase, but he sure looks like he could be a top
10 guy in the NFL.
And if you can get a top 10 guy in the NFL or even a top 15 guy for $50 million guaranteed,
feels like a steal.
The 49ers love seventh round draft picks as much as anybody,
and they've had a lot of success.
And Joanne Jennings, who is probably one of the better role players in the NFL,
incredible story, went to Tennessee as a quarterback,
immediately moved to wide receiver,
went through like three different coaches when he was there,
falls to the seventh round,
and has really established himself as a very, very solid player.
was holding out because the 49ers had tendered him at a little under $5 million.
He wanted more money.
They gave him a two-year $15 million contract extension and guaranteed him over $10 million.
So 49ers sign a seventh rounder this year.
They'll sign a seventh rounder next year.
Maybe they should just skip all the rounds and go right to the seventh round.
I like Juan Jennings a lot.
This type money is for NFL standards, nothing.
And you can do this type stuff when your quarterback makes a million dollars.
and this won't last forever.
Last but not least,
I saw Robert Sala had an interesting quote
because they signed
Tarek Cohen,
the former Bears kind of scat back,
and he said,
listen, the kickoff for Turner
this upcoming year,
we envision that guy
having a hundred touches.
And at first I saw that,
I was like,
that doesn't make any sense.
And then if you just went on average,
there'd be some games
when you only get three,
there might be some when you get six or seven, right?
If you just did, let's just average five.
Well, five times 10 is 50, and five times seven is 35.
That's 85.
And if you factored in, I guess if he did punts too, it would easily get to 100.
But maybe it won't be quite 100, but you're talking 75 to 90-ish touches minimum for a kickoff return.
that is a new powerful position.
Once upon a time, it wasn't that long ago when I was in the NFL,
the nickel corner was kind of a throw-in.
It's like, yeah, we got a solid nickel corner.
But not a lot of teams went to like three wide receiver sets
that consistently in a game.
Now, if you don't feel good about your nickel corner,
you're done.
You're going to get smoked every single week.
Because the offensive coordinator and the quarterback
will attack that guy until the sun goes down.
So this position,
I've been saying it for a while, and I saw Justin Fields kind of poohed, said it was a joke in a meeting.
But I think the point in that special teams meeting is like, this is a big position now.
And we're going to be able to make explosive plays.
Because like I've said, we'll see how do teams send a couple guys back as like safety nets?
There's going to be a lot of experimentation early on in the preseason, even early on in the season.
But we're going to get a lot of touchdowns.
I truly believe that.
Because if you make a guy miss or break a tackle,
you are out the gate.
To score a kickoff return in the old setup,
one, you needed like sweet blocking right up front,
you probably had to make a guy miss and break a tackle
and then outrun another guy.
You really, there's a chance if a certain angle in a game,
you might just have to make juke out one guy.
Or if your two guys get a block,
you're out the gates and it's on.
And the kicker's got no shot in the open field.
field. None. So doing the math, 100 touches could be high. I guess it would depend on the team,
but you're going to touch the ball a lot. And you're going to have a chance to change field position
all the time. I mean all the time. So the more and more, and I've seen some other special teams
coaches that have been talking during the preseason or during the OTAs. Like we're excited.
This is going to be fun. At first, like most people, anytime there's, anytime there is a major change
in anything we do.
I'm a big creature habit.
I would imagine many people listening
a pretty big creature of habit.
When a curveball comes in, it can throw you off.
And if something changes in your business,
you're like, okay, I got to adapt.
And at first, it can be kind of overwhelming.
And then once you get a feel for it,
you're like, I kind of like this more.
And one, from a fan standpoint,
I think it's going to be awesome as a viewer.
I think countless plays are going to happen.
We're sitting on our couch on Sundays.
And from a football standpoint,
I think teams,
to get the most aggressive with the player back there.
I've been saying for a while some of these teams,
like Tyree Kill is going to have some touches.
Christian McCaffrey, Sekewarm Barclay.
You could do a lot of shit.
I'm not saying every single time,
but like tie game, fourth quarter,
throw back your horse.
Then all of a sudden,
Saquan Barclay's taking one 70 yards
in a tie game against the Cowboys.
You're like, that was incredible.
So get ready because I think we're going to have fireworks at that play.
Imagine an Olympics where doping is not,
not only legal, but encouraged.
It's the enhanced games.
Some call it grotesque.
Others say it's unleashing human potential.
Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all,
embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year.
Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds.
I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth.
Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
A win is a win.
A win.
A win is a win.
Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th.
You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football,
or my career in sports media.
Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined.
And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show.
This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes,
creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated.
One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports.
and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music.
The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't
always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever
supported me, or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be.
Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.
And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok.
This is Robert from the Stuff to Blow Your Mind podcast.
Joe and I are both lifelong Star Wars fan,
so we're celebrating May the 4th with a brand new week of fun,
thought-provoking Star Wars-related episodes.
Join us as we tackle science and culture topics
from a galaxy far, far away,
such as the biology of tauntons and wampas on the ice planet hot,
or the practicality and corporate business sense of the Sith rule of two.
Listen to Stuff to Blow Your Mind on the iHeart Radio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Okay, let's do a little Middlecoff mailbag.
At John Middlecoff, Instagram, DMs wide open, fire in them.
Get a question answered here on a little thing called the podcast.
From Derek.
I'm a diehard Ducks fan, which is translated into me being a Chargers fan once they picked Herbert.
Let's take a look at the coaches Herbert has had since his freshman year
at Oregon.
16. Helfrich.
17.
Willie Taggart.
18 and 19.
Cristobal.
21 through 23.
Brandon Staley.
20. Anthony...
I skipped Anthony Lynn.
You could make an argument that
Helfridge is the best coach on this list.
Has there ever been a quarterback
to have this much success
despite having awful coaches
every single year in his career?
career. That's pretty wild. I mean, that is a terrible list. Think about this. Mario,
great recruiter, averages the day as long as a coach. I mean, Taggart's a disaster.
Brandon Staley, pretty well documented. If Brandon Staley is your head coach, I mean, that's
not great. Listen, the defense of Justin Herbert, and a lot of people push back, overrated,
He's not that good.
We're about to find out.
Because I'll promise you this.
In a couple years, you ain't going to be saying that.
You put him with Jim Harbaugh?
Maybe all those guys had to happen so he could leak up with Jim Harbaugh.
Because think about the best quarterbacks in the league.
Mahomes.
Andy Reid, Hall of Famer.
Lamar Jackson.
John Harbaugh.
Hall of Famer.
Josh Allen.
People like, Sean McDermott wins 11, 12 games every single.
single year. I'd say Sean McDermers pretty good. I mean, I think he's pretty good. I wouldn't put
him on John Harbaugh, Randy's level, but he's clearly a high-end coach in the NFL.
Matt Stafford, now Sean McVeigh, kicking ass, taking names. So, like, who your coach is,
it's hard to overcome. Look at Matt Stafford all those years with the Lions.
A lot of losing, man. This is not basketball, where it's like, yeah, I got, I got LeBron, I got
Stefan is prime i got whoever i'm going to be competitive if your head coach is not good in the sport of
football in in power five or the nfl good luck it's probably not going to go well wish i got this in there
for the mailbag but you touched on it and there so i wanted to ask anyhow you mentioned a little bit
about working for howie mentioned you had worked a sort of personal assistant for him it was a lot of work
could you do some time on what those front office jobs entail?
What was that personal assistant job?
Were you writing up spreadsheets for Howie, film, research?
For example, you joked about how you're not sitting around now waiting for the summer and camp to start.
Well, what are they doing right now?
What's the type of content, context that's not out there?
I know me and my buddies will love.
Well, during this period of time during OTA,
you're kind of just learning the job, right?
They're teaching you what to look for.
You're kind of learning the league.
You're watching some film.
But you're also, like, you cut guys during OTAs.
So it's usually your job to go grab them.
You know, you bring in a lot of guys for workouts,
undrafted free agents.
So who picks them up in a van?
Me.
During training camp and during the season,
one thing, and I would imagine this doesn't happen
now with technology and artificial intelligence and just everything.
We had the manually input injuries.
So I would go on the Roto World during training camp in the season and in a guy's basically
in a profile for a player.
So let's just pick a guy.
CD Lamb.
Let's say CD Lamb hurts his hamstring in training camp and he's out for two weeks.
you would manually write hamstring injury.
It sounds archaic now, but that's something
that was a very serious part of the job,
inputting injuries.
And then when guys were cut or whatever
during the year and during training camp,
you would have that the draft room
with every team and their roster on magnets,
it would be your job to take the magnet on,
take the magnet off.
When a guy got on injured reserve,
you would put them on injury reserve,
and whoever they signed
or elevated from a practice squad,
you would add that.
So a lot of magnets,
a lot of injury inputting,
a lot of picking guys up from the airport,
when you'd sign a player,
take him to the doctor,
take them around all the people
he had to see with the team.
You would have jobs to watch film as well,
and you would just try to figure that out
throughout the time.
You would help with advance reports.
So during the season,
when Lewis Riddick or the pro scouts were doing the advance report,
you would do tasks for them, whether it was drawing stuff,
you know, all sorts of random shit.
You would help coaches out whatever they needed.
Any little project might get thrown on your desk.
I'm trying to think.
It's been a long time.
A lot of airport runs.
You make, on a given week, you could do several airport runs.
And obviously during training camp, your job was to get the guys for cutting them, which sucked.
But you had to do it, right?
And at the time, playbook, information, coach wants to see you.
I mean, it's a shitty job.
And then, obviously, during the offseason, it changes.
They start sending you out to some pro days.
You're constantly holding lists and just doing whatever they need.
so I'm trying to think of some other tasks
I help the special teams coach a lot
identify guys
it's a lot of pretty
low level tasks
but you better not fuck up
because if you do you're going to yell that
by a lot of different people
so one thing I used to do
in this so 2010
everyone has a phone now with the weather
you'd print out the weather
all week long
Monday through Friday and drop it off on the coach's desk.
So if you're playing at Chicago or Green Bay or, you know, we're at Tampa, like how hot's it
going to be, how cold is it going to be, is it going to rain?
So I would do that every week.
The daily wire when guys are cut, when guys, you know, whatever, it's kind of your job
to make sure that's distributed.
You watch a lot of practice squad guys, so you're constantly writing reports on that.
They give you a couple teams
So you might get two or three teams
During the year and you basically have to write up every guy on that team
And then you're also focused on free agents
On restricted free agents having updated reports
You help the college scouts out sometimes do random stuff
You just anything that needs to get done
You know go pick up food
You know like we're working on Saturday
Go pick up a bunch of sandwiches
So it's a lot of tasks that most people do when they're the lowest guy in the totem pole.
Question for the pod.
Which five teams do you think that are set up for the most sustainable success for the next five to ten years?
Well, I think you just look at coaching quarterback.
So you go, Andy Reid's 66, he's got five more years left in him.
Patrick Mahomes is 27, 28.
They got to be the number one draft pick.
Jim Harbaugh, Justin Herbert,
I think you're betting on that.
D'emico Ryan, C.J. Stroud,
I think you're betting on that.
To me, it's just combination coach quarterback.
You know, Purdy, can he be a superstar?
If he becomes, like, the next version of Drew Brees,
like the Niners ain't going away.
The Rams are a good example.
Like, coach quarterback.
Awesome right now, but Stafford's 35
with a lot of wear and tear on his tires.
You know, so he's got to go around the league, coach quarterback.
If you got the coach, you got the quarterback,
I really think it's that simple.
It's really what the league boils down to.
It's like, who's good in the NBA?
Well, do you have a top five, six player?
Because if you do, you got a chance.
In football, it's like, would you have a top quarterback
and a top coach?
Then you got a shot.
Because the contracts and stuff,
things change so fast, guys get injured.
It's hard to look at the totality of a roster.
but I would say the things that have sustained,
like a lot of turnover in Buffalo.
Betting on Josh Allen being good.
Mar Jackson.
It's kind of been good now for five plus years.
John Harbaugh's been pretty consistent for a while.
I would imagine the Ravens ain't going away.
Longtime listener.
First time direct messenger.
Love the pot.
I'm a displaced Western PA Steelers fan
that now lives in Philly.
You've alluded to the transition.
from Kevin Colbert and Conn a few times.
Khan brings his salary cap expertise to the GM role.
Mike Tomlin is definitely a head coach with input to the ingredients that he cooks with.
Also, on the management team, Andy Wilde, I don't think your paths crossed in Philly.
They did not.
What are your thoughts on the influence of Widal and his team building approach with his ties to the Eagles?
I think sometimes these cap guys and these number guys like to have like a scout scout,
as their right-hand guy.
And I can't tell you like Andy Wytle's write-ups.
But long-time, right-hand man to Joe Douglas.
He works for the Ravens for a long time.
He's a football guy.
Like, he likes to scout.
The dude in Minnesota,
Quessie, who's his right-hand man?
Grigson, a scout.
So, you know, how much they lean on those guys with the draft,
it probably changes from place to place.
But I think it's pretty consistent when you get, you know, Chris Ballard at his core is a scout, right?
Some of these got less need is a scout.
So they are more dependent on the money analytic guys, right?
So you get these analytical guys or the contract guys, they need someone with a large scouting background.
They can help them run the department.
They can run the pro side, the college side, they kind of oversee everything.
because really when you're the GM
you're not just watching
tape all day.
I would imagine that's kind of a small part of the job.
On a given day,
you might not even be able to watch that much.
I mean, you're dealing with everything
from cafeteria to the training room
or the equipment staff,
dealing with your coach, dealing with the owner,
dealing with your player's issues
through agents.
You're not just sitting there like ranking players
24-7, 365.
I would imagine most general managers would say
it's a small percentage of my job.
Now that in the off season, during the draft, you have to,
but during the year, probably less and less than ever before.
So I don't know.
I met Wilde, Andy Weiddle one time,
but I can't pretend to have a good feel for him as a scout or anything.
I know it didn't end up great in Philly.
Grew up in Scottsdale my whole life.
Glad to hear you are enjoying it.
I'm a graduate from LSU,
and as a reward, I'm going to LSU versus USC opener in Vegas.
Use the game time code John.
I like this guy already.
I was never a big college football fan before LSU,
but this place makes you a fan.
When you Colin Clatt talk about the explosion of college football,
the only pushback I give is in an area like Arizona,
where even with a decent team here and there,
it's no SEC fandom.
Do you think the conference realignment can grow the game
in places like Arizona and Cali?
Or are those markets always going to be more pro-focused?
Yeah, Cali, like when USC is good,
they're a really big deal in Southern California.
Stanford was a top five program and they got 10,000 people showing up.
So the Bay Area is just going to be overrun by the state.
49ers. But Southern California,
USC can make a dent.
UCLA probably not as much.
But USC can.
Living in Scottsdale now for years,
I would say Arizona State might as well just play
like Fresno State and Boise State.
It's never going to be a big football program, ever.
No matter how cool this place is to live,
no matter how many babes there are,
in theory it should be a great place to recruit.
It just never will.
It's a
bottom-tier athletic program.
It's a baseball and golf school.
So I think Arizona State has zero opportunity to ever be a big deal here.
None.
I don't believe it's possible.
And I believe they'll go to the Big 12 and get worked.
And listen, I think Arizona State should basically be San Diego State.
Same level.
You know, try to win eight, nine games.
games and play those type of opponents.
I don't believe they should be playing
Kansas State and Oklahoma State.
Like, it's just not going to work.
Maybe once upon a time it could have.
But in present day set up,
I don't believe they have any chance.
Arizona, like Tucson, two hours away,
much smaller city, they take basketball there
very, very seriously.
You are what you take seriously.
At Arizona State, they take men's golf seriously.
They get pros every year.
They take baseball,
really seriously. They get a bunch of high-end guys. Maybe the program's dipped a little lately,
but their emphasis is not in basketball or football. We're at USC that they pump a lot of money
into football, right? At Oregon, they take sports and football very, very seriously. I just don't
see it ever being possible. I actually think it's kind of a bad, it's just not a great sports town.
I just don't think that many people care. I think people like sports, but they're just
just does anyone care about the diamondbacks?
I mean the Cardinals, you see a lot of like flags, but it's like, this is a
nine or home game once a year.
So I don't know.
I just don't think it's a great sports area.
Not great history, probably.
I mean, there are a lot of factors.
A lot of, you know, people from out of town.
It's kind of a lot of older people that retire.
here from colder states.
I can't tell you every time I play golf.
It's like, oh, yeah, I'm a big Minnesota Viking fan.
Diehard Chicago Bears guy.
Moved here to get out of the cold.
I love my Packers.
Football's huge.
I never meet anyone in Arizona that,
or play golf with anyone that's not a big football fan.
But they usually like teams from other places.
I go once a year to watch the Wisconsin Badgers.
Meet a lot of people in from the Midwest.
What was with all the dudes at the draft wearing sunglasses inside at night?
Is there something to that?
I've never understood sunglasses at night, ever.
Now granted, I need to go to the optometrists.
I think my eyes are slipping.
My dad wore glasses.
I've always thought I had pretty good eyesight
until I got my driver's license last year
that my Arizona license
and they made you take the eye test
and I couldn't see
and I was like reading off the letters
and she's like
oh different letter
she kind of helped me cheat
they don't care here much
and I was like God my eyes
but if you wear dark glasses at night
like how do you see anything
I understand like listen I'm not a fashionista here
but maybe you think it looks good
I just don't know how functionally you see anything
but people trying to be cool
I really think it's that simple
like just trying to be cool
but can you see
like part of wearing sunglasses
United States was on a five hour
or not five hours three hour drive yesterday
in the afternoon
sun barren down at you
without the sunglasses you just wouldn't be able to see the road
but at night in the dark
I don't know
don't get it
question comment for the pod
have you seen Debo's latest
Twitter back and forth
with boxer Devin Haney
can't help but laugh at the iron
irony of Debo trying to make fun of a multiple-time world champion for losing a championship bout,
especially coming from someone who is very outspoken about fans withholding criticism and just being fans.
That aside, if given an ultimatum of Debo v. Iyuk, do the Niners care about these off-field
antics, or is it minor comparison to the factors of on-field impact and age?
I got news for you
Nobody
with any
common sense
gives a flying fuck
about any Twitter
interaction
like there can't be a place
that is honestly
or should be even more
irrelevant to society
than it is
the reason it gets talked about
so much like on television stuff
because the media lives on it
they're on it 24-7-365
it's like their happy place
even though they're like
I'm leaving when Elon bought it
like you did not only leave
you guys have doubled down
like I'm going to threads
no you're not
you tweet more now than ever
but
interactions I don't think
they probably don't even know what happened
it does not matter
it could not matter any less
yeah
Debo like talking shit about the
I always hate when players talk
bad about the fans
you guys do know where the money comes
from those guys.
Now, obviously there's a line you can't cross,
but like, if it's booing or something,
like, I can't believe these guys,
the stuff they said to me and my mentions,
don't check them.
I mean, you don't have to sign on.
And you can't take the good with the bad.
Like, you love it when you dominate
and everyone's blowing you on there.
It's like, woohoo!
And then you have a bad game
and everyone's shitting on you.
And it's like, these fans are such assholes.
They only care about me,
one of their fantasy teams.
well, you love the last two weeks when you had three touchdowns,
and you're retweeting and liking,
it's the problem with social media.
It's like, everyone loves the good, but they hate the bad.
I didn't see it.
And, yeah, I don't, I'm not Chris Manix here to,
I know nothing about Haney.
I don't even know why Debo would,
does he not like, was he rooting for the other fighter?
I don't, I don't get it.
But I just think they want Debo to be in.
shape and get open on down the field routes.
I mean, he could not get open in the Super Bowl.
The Chiefs clamped him down like it was me.
It was honestly an enlightening experience, I think, for Kyle.
That's why they drafted a wide receiver in the first round.
And Debo is kind of a one-of-one, right?
Like he's a dominant player behind the line of scrimmage, but he is a wide receiver.
So it's like, can you run some routes?
And sometimes he can
Like he can go over the middle
But he doesn't stretch the field
Doesn't make any place down the field
In terms of just not really his game
So they're also
They've already paid him
Like he's on the team because of his contract
If he if like all things were equal
And they could have gotten rid of one
They would have gotten rid of Debo Samuel
And just signed Brandon Ayuk
But the problem is Debo makes 20
Brandon Ayuk wants 30
It just gets very expensive for a team
That doesn't even pass that often
They're never going to have 100 catch wide receiver.
So, first thing, they do not care at all about anything back and forth on Twitter or Instagram.
Obviously, there's a line, like, certain things you can't do or say.
But just like talking shit to someone else, nobody cares.
Okay, last one.
With all the contract talks recently regarding wide receivers,
I'd love to know your thoughts on AJ Brown's three-year $96 million extension
and Devante's three-year $75 million extension.
Did Howie smartly jump the market and overpay?
Well, AJ Brown's a lot like DAC, right?
The Eagles initially gave him a large extension,
and then he bawled, so he's due for a big race, right?
So he's an expensive player.
he was an expensive player the last couple years.
So if you're going to give him an extension,
you're going to have to come up,
I don't have the numbers in front of me,
but you start talking $30 million a year range.
He was just making, what was he making?
22.
So when you factor in multiple years,
the inflation of the position,
kind of the cost of doing business.
Like if AJ Brown was,
hit the free agent market,
someone would have given him four-year contract for what?
$135 million.
You know, Devante, this is the thing.
Like, they're going to be a passing team.
I know they're going to want to run the ball again.
In theory, they will, because they have Sequin now.
But the Eagles like passing it.
They always have and always will.
Because that's what the owner likes doing.
So you have one of the better number two wide receivers in the NFL.
And same type thing.
Like, ideally do you want to be paying two wide receivers,
$175 million of combined contracts?
I mean, it's a lot allocated to two guys,
but if you pass it all the time and they're both worth it,
yeah, what are you going to do?
Let Devante walk.
You drafted them, you love them.
I just think it's the cost.
Yeah, good contracts.
I never have a problem with paying a guy a lot of money.
He's a good player,
especially when he's your own guy,
and you can win with him.
It's just expensive.
And now they are,
they're spent a lot of money on the offense.
That's why there's going to be a lot of pressure
on Kellen Moore. Quarterback makes a ton.
The left tackle is paid. The right tackle's paid.
Guards paid. Running back's paid. Tight ends paid.
Wide receivers are paid.
I would say anything but like a top five offense next year is going to be viewed as
a disappointment with Eagles. I think there's a ton of pressure on the productivity
to a lot of the players. And same thing with defense.
Jordan Davis and Jalen Carter.
There's going to be tangible pressure on those two guys to ball.
especially Jalen Carter.
Top 10 pick, you have all the talent in the world.
Vic Fangio, what he's done with defensive linemen,
turned him into stars and had Pro Bowl impact guys.
You've invested a lot of capital in all these players,
paying them a lot of money.
I think the Eagles, everyone, and probably including myself,
are going to pick them to win the division.
But I don't know, man.
We'll see.
Because you start paying a lot of money,
the expectations go even higher
and coming off a down year
I can't
AJ Brown's really good
Devante Smith's really good
it's kind of the cost of doing business
right
the hard part is
you know when you have a number two wide receiver
and you have a clear one
like AJ Brown clear one
Jamar Chase clear one
how much is your number two
like the Bengals do you want to give
T. Higgins that type deal
clearly they're hesitant to do it
now I would say Devonte is a better player
in T. Higgins, but
that's the Niners problem.
It's like,
Debo's not even a number one.
Ayuk is probably
not a number one, but he's like Devante,
he's not, he's better than a two,
but it'll never be like a top five or six
guy in the league.
It's just a conundrum. And then how do we play?
Eagles, we want to pass.
We want to pass a lot.
It drives people nuts sometimes, but they do.
Two, they are. I don't think it's
going to change much.
Seguan's going to touch the ball a lot,
but I bet they throw them the ball a lot.
A lot of wheel routes, a lot of screens.
They get the ball to them.
Don't expect him to have 20 carries a game.
That is not the way the Eagles play.
They get their dynamic running backs.
The ball, they get them their touches,
but they do it in the passing game.
So I think Eagles are one of the more fascinating teams in the league
because of their talent,
because of the new coaching staff,
new coordinators, same head coach.
And I think the division,
Cowboys have won the division two of the last three years.
I don't think there are many people, including in Dallas,
that feel that good about that squad.
Appreciate everyone listening.
You guys are good people.
All my people behind the scenes,
James doing video,
Adam doing audio,
Daniel new to the squad.
We got a crew here that's not just your boy here.
We have an operation
at the volume that helps put this together.
so thank you to everybody and have a great day.
The volume.
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Hey, what's good, y'all?
You're listening to Learn the Hard Way with your favorite therapist and host, Kare Games.
This space is about black men's experiences, having honest conversations that it's really not safe to have anywhere,
but you're having them with a licensed professional who knows what he's doing.
How many men carry a suit or armor?
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