The Herd with Colin Cowherd - 3 & Out - Fantasy Pros: Thor Nystrom Interview, The Cowboys, Chargers and Harbaugh, Fugazi Friday

Episode Date: March 15, 2024

John dives into why so many Dallas Cowboy fans continue to freak out over the lack of signings that the Cowboys have made at the start of free agency and how that likely won't change until they figure out what's going on with Dak's contract, what's going on with the Chargers and Harbaugh, the Browns decision to pass on Flacco and sign Jameis Winston, and this week's edition of Fugazi Friday. Later, John is joined by Thor Nystron of Fantasy Pros to dive into the upcoming draft and what certain free agent signings could mean for your fantasy draft heading into next season. Lastly, John answers your questions on this episode's mailbag segment. 7:35 - Cowboy fans are freaking out 12:21 - The Chargers and Harbaugh 17:00 - The Browns QB situation 21:00 - Dan Campbell gets an extension 23:32 - Fugazi Friday 29:53 - Thor Nystrom Interview 1:15:00 - Mailbag Follow John on Twitter, Instagram and YouTube for the latest. Check out Gametime - the fastest growing ticketing app in the US, and the official ticketing app of 3 & Out and GoLow -  for tickets to all of your favorite NFL, NBA, NHL, NCAA teams. Concert and comedy show tickets, too. Go to Gametime now to create an account, download the app and use code JOHN for $20 off your first purchase. #Volume #HerdSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter.

Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year.

Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On the Look Back at it podcast. For 1979, that was a big moment for me. 84 was big to me. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a year, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it.

With our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite authors. Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s. 84 was a wild year. It was a wild year. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The volume. The thrill and excitement of Marchmania is here.

In Drafking Sportsbook, one of America's top-rated sportsbook apps is giving new customers a shot to turn five bucks into $150 instantly in bonus bets with any college basketball. ball bet. Download the Drafking Sportsbook app and use code John, J-O-H-N. New customers can bet five bucks to get $150 instantly in bonus bets only at Draft King Sportsbook with code, J-O-H-N. The crowd is yours.

Gambling problem, call 1-800 Gambler or in West Virginia visit 1-800gambler.net. In New York, call 8778 Hope N-Y or text Hope N.Y 467369. In Connecticut, help is available for problem gambling. Call 888-78-9-7777 or visit ccpg.org. Please play responsibly. On behalf of Boot Hill Casino and Resort in Kansas, 21 and over, age varies by jurisdiction. Void in Ontario. One no-sweat per new customer. Issued as one bonus bet based on amount of initial losing bet. Bonus bets expire 168 hours after issuance. See dkng.com slash promos for deposit wagering in eligibility restrictions, terms, and responsible gaming resources. What is going on, my people, John Middilcock, 3 and Out podcast. How are we doing? Thursday afternoon, hopefully everyone's having a good day. Some football stuff is going on.

I spent the day, watched a decent amount of the players, sweating that out. Got a couple guys who are kind of on the fringes right now, need them to pick it up. But didn't want to talk about the Cowboys and the freak out and why it shouldn't be that shocking because of their cap situation, kind of important when it comes to signing free agents. Jim Harbaugh did something that should be the least shocking thing if you followed his career over the last couple days. The Brown's interesting little quarterback situation decision they made with their backup quarterback, James Winston or Joe Flacco, and they decided to say adios to Flacco. And I think it's pretty clear why, as well as Dan Campbell and Brad Holmes, two guys that resurrected the Detroit

Lions got contract extensions today. I'm sure got big raises. So props of them in the Detroit City, because that's cool. Anytime you take over a crap organization, you get them winning, you get them winning fast. You deserve props and definitely deserve money. But we also are going to have on a friend of the program, Thor, Nystrom, he works at Fantasy Pros, and they are a podcast here under the volumes network. They are a monster. They're like a top five podcast consistently in sports, and they've been with the volume now, I think for like six months. He is one of their draft analysts, so he'll come on and we'll bullshit for a little bit. We're going to do a little home home, I'm going to go on their podcast, but he's coming on ours, knows football, knows

the draft really well. So we'll talk to him. And then of course, also it's Fugazi Friday, so I think I got an interesting little Fugazi that's materializing over the last couple years. And then of course, the Middlekopf mailbag at John Middlecoff is the Instagram, fire in the DMs, get your question, all this stuff, video podcast, it's all on YouTube as well. So if you like watching the video portion. Subscribe, type in John Middlecoff, three and out, go low. We put it all up. Other than that, if you listen on Collins feed, make sure you subscribe to the three and out feed. Greatly appreciate that. But hopefully everyone had a good week, right? I think we kept the content flowing. Good learning lesson for next year, probably to be ready to rock and roll when the tampering

season starts, or not season, but the day starts, and then probably go again on the Free Agency day, but obviously the tampering day is easily. I mean, Monday was the craziest day of the week. Not that I didn't think that was going to happen, but I feel like this year was crazier than most. Maybe I'm just, you know, prisoner of the moment. But, yeah, Monday's the day. Obviously, Wednesday didn't suck, and this week didn't suck.

It was fun. Because, thank you, NFL. We appreciate all the stories you keep throwing our way. But before we dive in to some football stuff, you know I got to tell you about my friends. At game time, what I need you to do right now, go to your smartphone. Got my AirPods right now in my ear. And download a little application called GameTime. They're the official ticketing app of this podcast.

You can go to anything. Basketball games, football games, baseball games, right around the corner. You want to get outside, take in some sun when it gets warm? I got you covered. Game time, promo code John, J-O-H-N, J-O-H-N, save $20 off. You want to go to a. concert. I see a lot of people on Instagram all the time. This person's going

on tour. This band's coming back. This person's touring with this guy. Love me some live music. Love having a few pops. Go enjoy yourself. Out and about. Game time. Search any venue. Search any city. Promal code, John. The freak out

for the Dallas Cowboys once you dive into the numbers is kind of laughable. I've just been loosely saying it because I know the way they've always always operated, at least in the last, since they've been good the last decade, right? I want good relative to them. I mean, they've had a consistent winning team.

They pay their own guys. A lot of money. But when you pay your own guys at a lot of different positions, it typically adds up. So a lot of these teams coming into free agency that have cap space, most of them have kind of had some turmoil on their roster. The Texans, good example. One, a couple of their best players are rookies. they're not paying that many players, right?

So these teams, the football team commanders, the reason they had a bunch of cab space, they got rid of a bunch of dudes. They didn't have a lot of guys on their roster making any money. And everyone's like, how are the Cowboys signing nobody? Well, there's a reason, like, in college, when your parents come visit

or your roommate's parents come visit and you go out to dinner, it's always a highlight because most of the time you're eating like burritos and sandwiches, and then family comes into town and you go eat it, like a steakhouse, they pick up the bill. Why?

They have the money. You have none. You couldn't even afford to pick up the bill if you wanted to. Same thing in free agency. Teams that don't have any cap space can't afford any high-price players. So I looked. The highest cap hit in the National Football League this year is Deshaun Watson, who will get into a little later, at $63 plus million.

That is an enormous hit. Currently, because they haven't messed with the contract, or extended them, and the only way they're going to mess with the contract is extending him. The second highest cap hit is Dakota Prescott at $59.4 million. That is his cap hit under the $250 million number. I think it's $255. That accounts for almost 23% of the cap. Now, if Dak Prescott was the only player on the team, you'd have a lot of money to deal with.

Here's the problem. they have six other players on their roster, including DAC, that add up to 54% of their salary cap. So between Dexter Lawrence, his name is escaping me. I don't want to screw it up. The Lawrence, they have the past Russia of Boise State.

C.D. Lamb, Zach Martin, Trayvon Diggs, and Michael Gallup, and Dak Prescott. So you're talking, Dak, Lawrence, C.D., Zach Martin, Diggs Gallup. That's six players, six total players. Last night checked, you got a 53-man roster, 22 starters. Those six guys headed into this season. Now, there have been some rumors they might trade Gallup, but as of the day, their cap compliant, 54%. Those three players. It adds up to almost $140 million worth of cap space, not how much money they're making, just their cap hits. that is what matters when it comes due signing free agents.

They didn't have any cap room. And they usually don't because they always pay their players. Now, when you're paying guys like C.D. Lamb or Zach Martin, I know Trayvon Diggs got hurt last year, but he's, you know, a playmaker. And even Dak Prescott, if that number's a little lower, whatever, it's the cost to doing business. But when you get into the situation, and this is the problem with the Browns. Like, the Cowboys can fix this problem if they want. They just have to choose to extend them.

And I would understand if they went, because you always get to this position, it happens in the NBA all the time, where the guy is clearly not a top six, seven player in the NBA. Sometimes it's not even a top 12 player. You're like, well, he's our guy. We got to give him that $250 million contract. You're like, that's a bad idea. Now, Dag Prescott is a really solid player, especially in the regular season. The playoffs the last three years have been pretty underwhelming.

They've been a disaster. I think five interceptions in those three playoff games. And let's face it, you just expect more. well, the cost of doing business for these starting quarterbacks is really, really high. I mean, we're talking about Tuatanga Viloa getting $45,50 million a year. So if you're Dak Prescott, like, if I'm going to do an extension, you're probably talking, give or take, $200 million in guaranteed money. And, you know, I would imagine at minimum $47, $48 million per year.

Could be as high as $55 million. I understand thinking twice about that. I do. And I totally understand if you're like, let's play this out. But when you do that, let's play this out. Because over the last couple of years, he hasn't quite earned like a lock extension. You find yourself in this position. You could handle the CD Lambs, Zach Martin, Trayvon Diggs, cap hits.

Those are four, five, six percent of your salary cap. When Dak Prescott's 23 percent, it's going to impact being able to sign some of these players. It just is. I don't think it's that crazy why they didn't sign anybody. They have cap problems. The Chargers, who also had cap problems. One thing I think you need to do

when any new person comes into a job in the NFL is go, one, what scheme do they run? And philosophically, especially if it's a guy that has history, what do they like? What type players do they, and how philosophically do they build a football team? And when I close my eyes and I say, Jim Harbaugh, my mind doesn't go to like scoring touchdowns and lighting up the scoreboard. It goes to the line of scrimmage, the offensive and defensive lines.

Well, they had four guys that were pretty polarizing coming in with their cap situation. Mike Williams, Keenan Allen, Khalil Mack, Joey Bosa. Well, Khalil Mack had 17 sacks last year. Sacks aren't everything, but I googled it today. he has not missed a game in two years for the charges. He had eight sacks two years ago, 17 this year. Obviously, I think one game he had five or six, so it inflates it a little bit, but he's still a darned good player.

Jim Harbaugh, Kahliel Mack, those two guys go together. Joey Bosa a little more polarizing because he's injured a lot. When he's on the field, he's a really solid to above average player who plays a very, very important position. Pass rusher. So when I saw that they restructured Khalil Mack and then they also did the same with Joey Bosa, not shocking at all.

Their general manager comes from the Baltimore Ravens, who I've said for a while, the Chargers are going to become the Ravens West. They're going to want the same type players. They are going to aspire to have the same group of like-minded guys. Football all the time, tough, just fucking let's get into the, the ring and have a heavyweight match. That's how Jim Harbaugh has now coached his football

team for 20 plus years as a head coach. Whether it was San Diego, Stanford, the 49ers of Michigan. He has stayed very, very consistent. Beside a couple years when he went to this spread offense with Josh Gaddis from Alabama, and he hated it. He turned around, went the other way, hired Sharon Moore, and they built a bully and they just won a national championship. His brother, I mean, the Ravens were built from that mentality before he even got there. but obviously with Lamar, the running attack, it's pretty clear the type team he's going to build. So I love Mike Williams.

I understand why he got let go. Hurt, plays wide receiver. Like, I would much rather, like, if I'm Jim Harbaugh and Joe Horowitz, the way they fundamentally view football, you go, are they going to lean with the defensive lineman or the wide receiver? If all things are relatively equal,

they're always going to go with the linemen. That's just, that's the way it is. Right? That's just, that's the way it's going to be. It's why a lot of people think they're going to take the offensive linemen in the first round. Time will tell. But the least stunning thing so far in free agency is that Jim Harbaugh likes Khalil Mack and Joey Bosa to be on his football team moving forward. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games.

Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast. Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth.

Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football,

or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices

that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space. For honest conversations, stories that don't always get told,

and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me, or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to The Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Hey, this is Robert from the Stuff to Blow Your Mind podcast.

Joe and I are both lifelong Star Wars fan, so we're celebrating May the 4th with a brand new week of fun thought-provoking Star Wars-related episodes. Join us as we tackle science and culture topics from a galaxy far, far away, such as the biology of taun tons and wampas on the ice planet hot, or the practicality and corporate business sense of the Sith rule of two. Listen to Stuff to Blow Your Mind on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

The Browns. I've been saying this forever when it comes to football teams, when it comes to coaches, executives, and even players, I judge you on your actions, not your words. And that's just a fundamental way I view the world. I don't care what you say. I'm from California. A lot of people say one thing and do something completely different.

So I only judge you on your actions. Anyone in business knows anyone can say anything. Like what you actually follow through on, what you actually do is all I actually care about. and when you look at the Browns last year and even moving forward, the Deshaun Watson contract situation and just his play is one of, I would say one of the more interesting stories in the NFL. And before he got injured, it was not that interesting because it was kind of a disaster.

And they fired everyone on offense. And they brought it a new offensive coordinator. They brought a new offensive assistant coaches. Obviously their head coach is an offensive coordinator as well. but they did that to tailor to Deshawn Watson because their entire success moving forward is going to be on the back of a guy taking up $63 million a year on their cap

this year, next year, and the following year. If he does not play, I would say as a borderline top 12 quarterback, they got no fucking chance. You're not going to be able to build the team well enough with that level of cap taken to the one player if he's not playing or if he just plays like he did.

Every Browns fan knows Beside the one half of football His Browns career has been an utter disaster And now he's coming off an injury Well, the first hope of the Deshawn Watson era Happened when Flacco came in, resurrected the franchise And led him into the playoffs And made some huge plays

And it was just a fun story Well, I looked Joe Flacco didn't return to the Browns He went to the Colts My first thought was, God, I wonder if they did they give him a lot more money? because the Browns signed James Winston. Well, James Winston got $4 million guaranteed. Well, Joe Flacco, I saw he got an $8.5 million contract.

I'm like, I totally understand. Flacco, he can't turn that down that type of money. And then I Googled his contract. He got $4.5 million guaranteed. So they essentially got the same thing. You know why the Browns didn't bring out back Joe Flacco? Because next year, if Deshaun Watson looks like he has looked earlier in his Cleveland, Brown's career.

They will start chanting for Joe Flacco in the stadium. It will be all anyone talks about. The Browns had no choice. It wasn't about the money. They could not bring back Joe Flacco because he would be the elephant in the room the moment Deshaun Watson had a bad game. If he had two bad games, people would be like,

you have to put this guy in. And let's face it, The organization does not have a choice, at least for if he's healthy, I would say the next 25 plus games. All your chips are in the middle of the table. I understand why they did it, but it's a reflection that they're worried about everything surrounding this Deshaun Watson situation. They've got to be nervous about it.

This was clearly going back to an owner-led operation. But none of, you know, in terms of the contract, and he already turned him down, They said they guarantee every penny. None of that matters now. 2004, the contract's the contract, the team's the team. He just better play well. Because now you're making decisions where you bring in lesser players, players that you're not even comfortable around.

Like this guy's already been in your building, your teams likes them. So this is a reflection of the Deshawn Watson decision from years ago. And I don't know. I'd bet against it. But buckle up, Cleveland, because it's going to be fascinating either way. And before we get into Fugazi Friday,

Dan Campbell, Brad Holmes, I think anytime you go to a team in professional sports that has been really, really shitty, and everything around said team is negative and have success, that's one of the most successful things you can do. Because you don't just need to overcome your opponent. You have to overcome what fans think,

what the owner thinks. But honestly, the play. players think. Now, in football, you turn over your roster a lot, but it feels like in my life, the Detroit Lions were, you know, for a long time, it was the Tampa Bay Bucks. If you're older than me, if you're like a 50-year-old, like in the 80s and throughout a large percentage of the early 90s, they were called the Yucks, because they were so terrible. They were basically an expansion team for 15 plus years. For a long period of time, the Lions have fallen under that category, right? Some of their more famous plays of

of my lifetime, is Orlovsky running out of the back of the end zone, just really bad teams, teams that drafted high a lot, teams that did not go to the playoffs, definitely did not win playoff games. Within three years, Dan Campbell and Brad Holmes, not only built up this roster to be, has to be one of the better young rosters in the NFL. They flipped Matt Stafford and immediately found a quarterback who is more than functional for them on a team-friendly deal.

and started winning. And ended Aaron Rogers' career in Green Bay. And then a year later, got the Detroit Lions to the NFC championship game for the first time in 30-plus years. So they got extensions, even though they already had six-year contracts, which I would imagine Dan Campbell, I don't know if he was the lowest paid coach in the league, but he definitely wasn't one of the higher, got a substantial raise. And just as a football fan, as anyone, as a fan of people that aren't scared,

because this is not an easy job to take. He took this job knowing if this is a disaster, one, you're going to be a laughing stock, and you're never getting another shot. And they went in it, they rolled up their sleeves, and they built a bully fast, and they're continuing to make good moves. I have a lot of respect as a football fan watching their team play.

I mean, they came into San Francisco in that NFC championship game. They ended up fucking it up at the end. but goddamn, they came in kicking ass and taking names. So props to Dan Campbell, Brad Holmes, and it's cool to see the Detroit Lions good. Okay, let's end on Fugazi Friday. The tipping thing is just relentless. I get daily DMs about tipping.

And I don't think there is any current bigger Fugazi than the tipping situation in America. We've already established it's out of control and the only way to kind of take it back is to refuse to do it at the times of like, I've just bought a frozen chicken here at the store. I'm not giving you a $5 tip.

Obviously, in different services, you should tip. But everywhere you turn to half the tip is outrageous. I noticed this a couple years ago. When I first moved to Arizona, I rented an apartment, and there was this CVS very close to me. And you'd go into the CVS, and there'd be a couple people working, right? Just, I'd say behind the counter, but they were never behind the counter.

And I would just go there to get basic necessities, right? Razors, lotion, some snacks here and there. Just stuff like that. Body wash. And call me old school. I still like, obviously, if there's a long line, I'll just go to the self-checkout. But if there's just one person, like, I do like just checking out, I don't know, the normal way. way. And they would refuse to ever check you out. They're like, you got to go to the self-checkout.

And I'd think to myself, like, what's the point of this? Like, what are you even doing here? And then I moved from Paradise Valley area to North Scottsdale, probably 15, 20 minutes away. And on one side of me, there's this big grocery store. It's called fries. I don't know if they're a national chain. I've never really been around fries. Really nice grocery store. And then just you're old faithful, probably the other way, safe way. And both. And both. Both of them fall under the same category. They have, I don't know, eight plus old school checkout ways, right? Where people are standing there, you put yourself on the conveyor belt and you just buy your groceries and go on with your merry way.

And then they have the self-checkout. Every time I go, whether it's rush hour and the place is packed. And both these places, especially the fries, is an absolute zoo. There will be, you know, usually there's like one through eight in the lights. my entire life, most of the lights lit up. It's like one, two, three, four. There's the one line, like 15 lines or 50 items, 15 items or less. They're never lit up and there's no one there. The whole thing is just self-checkout, which clearly times change, things change. I get it. What's the point of even having the lines anymore? I don't even get it. Like, what are we doing?

What's the point of having the employee who's not like the produce guy, he's not behind in the deli. He's got to stand in there. He's not even stocking the shelves. He's like, yeah, I'm just, he never really has an answer. He's like, oh, here's a self-checkout. Like, yeah, I'm buying some booze. Like, well, let me see your ID. What are you actually doing? Just kind of hurting the cattle here?

And I've got this on a couple DMs. What is going on with our checkout situation? Because I would get, I would understand if you just didn't have any employees in there. Like, okay, it's just robots, self-checkout, get it. But there are literally guys just standing there.

looking at you, right next to where the checkout aisle, because they still exist, and they just kind of stare at you. There's like a stare-off. Like, who's going to win? Like, could you, could you ring me up? Especially some of these checkout lines, that's the other thing. If, you know, the fry is actually equipped with two sides, the Safeway only has one side. It gets really backed up. So it's like, God, I'm going to be waiting here for a minute. And there's three, you know, there's Billy Joe and Megan up there in their outfit working for the operation. It's like, hey, could you ring me up? No, I can't. You're just going to stare at the ceiling here? I got

some Ben and Jerry's here. It's melting. Hell, I'll tip you to check me out. And they just kind of stare at you when nothing ever happens. So it's a wild transitional period right now with the self-checkout in the old school people that I always will be. You know, my unborn children won't even know what it'll be like to go out. Obviously, the fast food chains are definitely going that way. Don't totally hate that.

I know what I want when I go to McDonald's or Taco Bell, hit a couple buttons and get it delivered to me. But if I have chickens and steaks and produce, like I do like that interaction. I'm a sucker for it. But it feels like that is long gone, and now you just have to self-checkout, despite they're literally being checkers standing right there at you.

I mean, talk about a growing Fugazi right now in America. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds.

I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th.

You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast,

The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me, or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Hey, this is Robert from the Stuff to Blow Your Mind podcast. Joe and I are both lifelong Star Wars fan,

so we're celebrating May the 4th with a brand new week of fun, thought-provoking Star Wars-related episodes. Join us as we tackle science and culture topics from a galaxy far, far away, such as the biology of tontons and wampas on the ice planet hot, or the practicality and corporate business sense of the Sith rule of two. Listen to stuff to blow your mind on the ice, Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Okay, here with, uh, relatively new to the volume from Fantasy Pros, Thor Nystrom, from living from Minnesota. Interested to hear how my man feels about the, uh, the quarterback turnover there. Kirk Cousins cash is in again and you get Sam Darnold rolling to the Twin Cities. How are you doing, Thor? Hey, I'm doing great, John. I'm going to be with you. And yeah, very excited to be honest about Mr. Cousins leaving because it opens up a war chest of cap room for my Vikings in 2025.

After the dead cap hit of Cousins and DeNeil Hunter and Marcus Davenport come off the cap from 2024. And then, of course, opens up the possibility of moving up for the first round quarterback that us locals around here have been begging for now for multiple years. So it's a very exciting time. I mean, you guys haven't had a high drafted pick. How high did Dante, Culpeper go? 11, interestingly enough. And in Dante's draft class, 1999, quarterbacks went one, two, three. Vikings got QB4 in the 11th slot. At the time, they had the best young receiver in football, Randy Moss, but no quarterback of the future on the roster. This year, the Vikings sit with the 11th pick. Seems like it could go quarterback one, two, three. They have Justin Jefferson wondering who their quarterback of the future is. But I don't know, I really like the top four quarterbacks in this class. So assuming Minnesota can get one of those top four guys, I, I, I, think they're going to be set up really well. You know, it's kind of crazy to think about.

I guess, you know, the Chiefs went through this forever, right? Never had a homegrown guy, always patchworking. 1999, I don't know how old you are. That was like I was in junior high. That feels like a lifetime ago, right? And a lot of Tavaris Jackson's, a lot of Brett Farves, you know, Kirk Cousins, there's something about, I mean, let's face it, there's just something special about drafting the guy.

And whether he becomes the next Joe Montana or Patrick Mahomes, even if it becomes Josh Allen or Lamar Jackson. It makes watching football pretty freaking fun knowing you got a guy for a decade plus. It sure does. I feel like it both, you know, obviously it raises your ceiling because if you hit on that guy, if you get the Pat Mahomes, if you get the Josh Allen, whatever, obviously you become the contender. But I also think sneakily, and I don't think this gets discussed enough,

I also think it raises your floor because it allows you to make mistakes with your other personnel decisions where it's not as pressing that every single one is right. The issue with Kirk Cousins here in Minnesota here the last three, four years and what it did to the cap was every single decision needed to be right. They didn't have any margin for error, even on the margins. Everything needed to be right. And then Quasi, his first draft was not very good. The last one looks a little bit better. But then, you know, a couple of those Spielman drafts at the end were not the best either. And so, you know, that's how you got into this. situation that you ended up getting into. But you have that rookie, you know, on the rookie scale

deal at the quarterback position, all of a sudden now you're paying the quarterback, you know, $40 million less or whatever. That money can all be delineated into the rest of the roster. Now this defense that the Vikings have had that hasn't been very good, you can fortify that, the interior offensive line that we have been complaining about for multiple years. You can fortify that. You have money for a running back, which they did not have last year. They were able to Gaught and sign Aaron Jones. And next offseason is where the fireworks are truly going to start. That's where Minnesota is projected to be number one in the NFL and cap room. You know, the crazy thing about some of these big trades that we've seen a lot of them, right,

over the last seven, eight years, guys going for multiple first round picks, Jamal Adams, Khalil. The 49ers did it once with divorce, but they didn't get multiple, but they got the 13th overall pick. And Javon Kinlaw ended up on the Jets now and was a whiff. And they traded back a spot and got worse. And I love picks, as much as you love picks, as much talking about the draft, but eventually you got to draft the right guys, right? And I ran into Rick Spielman at the Combine, and I was like, listen, obviously it ended poorly, but I think you're really good at your job. I mean, he drafted a lot of impact guys and a lot of different rounds. Justin Jefferson. Remember that celebration when they Rager went in front of them and they got Justin Jefferson,

but it was the Eric Kendricks, the Harrison Smith, just a lot of good personnel moves. And let's face it, most GMs, and the stats will tell you this, even the best ones, are going to miss on a lot more picks than they hit on. Oh, a thousand percent. Yeah. And, you know, that's like one thing with my job. I put out a 500 player, Big Barber with 500 comps, whatever. You're making 500 predictions on outcomes that haven't occurred yet.

Of course, you're going to miss there. And GMs with their picks, they're going to miss as well. These are all outcomes that haven't occurred yet. And, you know, as you know, John, as a former scout, this is, it's an art. it is not a science. There is no, even the prospects that look like they're the closest that can't miss, there is a path for them to miss. So, I mean, yeah, you just have to crunch all the data and then just make the best

situational assumptions that you can once that decision is due. That's the best you can do. Well, I know one thing philosophically, I'm just adamant against is guys high in the first round, Mack Jones, Kenny Pickett. There is no such thing in a draft as a high floor, right? It doesn't exist, right? The guy could just be bad, not good enough. And so when you draft guys really high,

it's one thing taking high floor guys mid-round, late round, totally understand, whatever, you like the player. But I am not, I'm trying to hit big swings, because there's no guarantee. So when you draft Mack Jones, your margin for error is actually much smaller. Because the best case scenario, the best case scenario,

he might be Kurt Cousins. Well, Kirk Cousins is like a fringe top 10 quarterback. So if that's your best case scenario, your worst case scenario is probably even worse, which it became. Or can he pick it? Who has a little less sample size because he's been injured? But still, it's pretty clear physically. Like, I'm okay with taking Anthony Richardson high.

He might not be good. But he might, his ceiling is so much higher. I will never budge off that philosophically when it comes to quarterbacks, swinging big guys with attributes. At that position, yes. You swing big or go home. You have to do that. And if you hit on the guy, that's where you have the cheat code.

against the rest of the NFL for the next, what, four years of, you know, five years, whatever, off that working contract. That's how you win Super Bowl. Is you either that or you have one of the three, four best quarterbacks in the NFL? But that's, we know by the data now, those are the two paths to get in there. I had Matthew Barry on at the at the Combine. And I'm not a huge fantasy guy, though obviously it's impossible not to follow it. And when you follow the NFL, it's essentially, it's all baked in one now.

you've been in this business for a long time. Now, you know, you were at Rottero World, which when I was in the NFL, we used to gather injury information, right? So like when a guy was injured, we didn't put it in the system, and it was kind of, I was telling you before we press record, it was kind of Twitter before Twitter. And today it's still Twitter without Twitter, no other stuff. It's just, you can just click on football or basketball or whatever. And I asked Barry this, like, when did he know it was going to be so big?

was there a moment, like when you got into it, I'm sure you just love football, enjoyed playing fantasy. Was there a moment over the last decade? I mean, now you're part of, is it the biggest fantasy football podcast in the country by a pretty wide margin it feels like? When did you know? Yeah, yeah, with Fantasy Bros or with the Roto World? Just with the industry. Oh, yeah, it's been kind of a wild ride. You know, like when I came out of undergrad, I thought I was going to be one of the guys with the microphone.

phone, you know, in the locker room after the game where you're just writing about the thing that you've already seen, right? And then you're given the quotes and what were you feeling when you caught the game winning touchdown and all that nonsense? But the media landscape, it changed so dramatically. And I think we're about the same age. I graduated undergrad 2008. The newspaper industry was, oh, okay, exactly same age. Newspaper industry was crumbling at that time. And so I just sort of had to figure it out as we went. And the internet job. were opening up and the fantasy community and then the betting community as well is the other big one that I'm in. It showed a shift in the way that people wanted to consume sports media. Instead of

being told about the thing that already happened, that they had already watched, that they could get alerts on on their phone, that they could watch on their phone, different stuff like that. They wanted to be told about what could happen. So they could invest in that, be that from a fantasy perspective, who should I draft, who should I start, or from a betting perspective, who should I, should I lay the points? Should I, should I take the dog? Should I be on the money line? NFL draft props. I've been, I've been nailing these things now since they came out last two, three weeks. I can't wait till they drop more of them. But if you can be ahead of the market on various things, you get ahead of the market moves. One of them in the NFL draft

already, John, in the prop market, they put out, Drake May was the prohibitive favorite to go number two to begin with. Because of course, the, you know, the, you know, the, you know, the narrative was always Caleb Williams, QB1 with a bullet, Drake May, QB2 with a bullet. I, I disagreed with that. First of all, I don't think that Drake May is QB2 in this class. Number two, I don't think that he is the best fit for Cliff Kingsbury's offense. In fact, I think he is the fourth best fit for Cliff Kingsbury's offense of those top four quarterbacks. So I put out a thread on Twitter. Drake May should not be the favorite to go number two. Here's a brief thread. Why? And I got into all the reasons why. At that time, Drake May was minus $1.50.

favorite on the board. Today, if you look, the last time I checked, Jaden Daniels is now minus 175. He was the guy that I was advocating should be the favorite. The odds board has just completely shifted. But you're reading the tea leaves and predictive analysis, different stuff like that. That is the way that this landscape has changed. And over the entire course of my career coming out from undergrad, you've seen it shift more and more and more. And it's just going to keep going that way. Do you think, because we often say the NFL's never been more popular than it currently isn't 2004. Is it safe to say fantasy football has never been more popular than it currently is today? That's safe to say. And it's safe to say that there's never been more sports betting handle

in America as well. And those two things I- You combine those two things the way you're talking. Do you think they're kind of one under the same umbrella? I do. Yeah, because you're speaking to the same thing. You're trying to predict also the, it's sort of like NFL draft analysis in some ways, you're trying to predict outcomes that haven't occurred yet. You're crunching data in order to try to get an advantage on all your other competitors, a monetary advantage by winning your league or winning your bet against the book, whatever. So that's, yeah, that's where I think this thing is and I think it's going to keep going that way. Well, the one thing fantasy football, I started doing, I moved Arizona several years ago, and the Draft Kings app, the ability to play these props on

an individual basis, definitely go hand in hand, right? If you're going to go over under a brand and I, you catches or Aaron Jones rushing attempts. I mean, it's not even just yard touchdowns, rushing attempts. It's pretty incredible. And obviously, those two things definitely go hand in hand. I would say the prop betting market is probably going to be, hasn't even scratched the surface of the popularity of what it's going to be over the next decade, right? Totally agree. Yeah, I think we're at right now 38 states in the United States have legalized sports betting. We need to get to 50. We need to get the whole federal restrictions lifted, everything like that. Once the prohibition era ends in America against sports gambling, everything's going to open up.

We'll have more brick and mortars. The apps, there won't be restrictions on that. And yeah, and you're going to see even more of the shift in the media at that point, because then there's going to be even more people seeking out this kind of content. So I think that's 100%. John, my favorite prop on those apps is the NFL Combine props. I love the 40 props, prize picks, drop some, and Underdog dropped them this year as well. those things are like shooting fish in a barrel

if you're down there in the weeds with this kind of stuff. It's always fun betting on those. You know, you bring up Jaden Daniels. LSU, once it was clear, they were kind of out of the mix for a playoffs, but I didn't watch them as much. And I went back after the Combine

because everyone was talking about the three wide receivers. And you watch a lot of Rome. I did living on the West Coast. I've watched a ton of Marvin Harrison. I was like, okay, this Malik Neighbors guy. And you just pull up YouTube, the highlights. Obviously he won the Heisman, but when you watch him, you go, he's got a huge arm, he's a big time athlete, he can move, he's accurate, he has touch. I understood all the height behind, really the only knock on him.

And you saw this at the combine, you kind of see it in the, he's skinny, relative, but he's not small. He's just thinner, right? He's not built like I saw Caleb Williams today at the golf tournament. He's thick, right? And I would imagine he weighs 215, 220 pounds. Even Kyler Murray was short. He was thick. but other than that, I do understand where the love comes from this guy's physical traits.

And I don't even think it's out of the realm possibility because football is so much about scheme fit, about who's coaching you, the institution around you, your head coach, the vision of the, he could be a, he could turn out to be the best quarterback. Because Caleb, if he goes to Chicago, historically, it's not exactly a Mr. Quarterback organization, right? I think so, yeah, that's very well said. And Daniels, yeah, I mean, he's tall, he's real thin. sort of the opposite build of Akaleb Williams, like you were mentioning.

I think when I think Jay and Daniels going to the NFL, I think of them as a guy that's bringing two superpowers with him, proven that we'll translate. Number one, he's a deep ball assassin. You were sort of mentioning that. Yeah. It's not just the arm strength to get it down there. His touch is ridiculous. You know, it's like a pool shark, but he's doing trick shots.

You know, he jumps the ball and everything. He can drop the thing wherever he wants, just out of the sky. He just airmails it into it like a little. into the mail, you know, like wherever he wants. So it's the deep ball thing and then the being able to hurt you with his legs once he breaks containment. So you have the dichotomy of those two different things. And it becomes for the opposing defensive coordinator and the opposing defense, both a spacing problem and then a numbers problem because it becomes this puzzle. Do we put two safeties back? Because now he can't throw deep or we're better suited to defend that.

But if you do that, now he has a better opportunity to run around. You don't have as many guys up there. Also, the intermediate range. He showed that he can attack there as well. Do you keep a spy on him? Then you keep the thousand plus yard legs. You know, you tamper down in the danger of that. But how are you going to do that if you have two deep safeties?

Do you try to sort of split the middle and ramp up the aggression on him on the blitz? They tried that last year. You know who the highest grade of PFF quarterback against the Blitz was last here in this class. Jaden. Mr. Jaden, Daniels. So, I mean, like, the improvements he has made are just so impressive since that 2021 season.

His career started fine at Arizona State after he got signed by Hermit. It was just like the face of the franchise there. Stagnated in 2021. That's why he came over to LSU. They fixed his propensity to put the ball up for grabs and make wonky decisions in 2022, but he wasn't generating the explosive plays. This past season, he was both taking care of the ball, but then you added the explosive element. You bring those two superpowers with you. I agree with you, John. I think he has a

very high floor. I think he also has a very, very high ceiling just because of that. There are a couple things that, you know, concern me-ish. Concern is probably not a good way to put it, but I think that he needs to keep working on. You brought up, you know, the frame thing. When he runs, he needs to start sliding. He didn't really slide in college and you'd see him get blasted. That's a pretty obvious one. Another one as far as him in the pocket. I love how he manipulates the pocket. I love how he keeps his eyes up.

He's a full field reader. And I like that he does not bail the pocket until he has to. He's not one of those guys who has the ridiculous legs where he's looking to bail the first sense of trouble, whatever. But one thing about his passing profile that is a little bit concerning is he doesn't attack the middle of the field. Last year, he was Jaden Daniels, nine for 18 with a two to one TDI and T. ratio 10 to 20 yards down the field between the numbers. It's just on an area of the field that the LSU offense attacked. I'm not saying that he can't do it, but he was more the downfield guy and then attacking the sidelines and then his legs. Those are just a couple things to keep in mind with

him. But yeah, he's a very good prospect that I think is going to go very high. I think he's going number two. Who was your top quarterback prospect a year ago? Unfortunately, it was Bryce Young. I kicked myself all fall because, you know, Mine was too. I thought he was an excellent prospect. And I still, look, I'm not throwing the dirt on Bryce Young yet. The story of Bryce Young has not been written yet. But like, you know, I was talking about this last spring of if we had seen what we saw from C.J. Stroud in that playoff game against Georgia prior to that, if we had a sample size

of that that that was bigger than one game, he would have been my quarterback one. It's just that we didn't get to see him excel under pressure, Excel when moved off his spot, throwing the dimes, you know, with the bullets flying, everything like that, out on the perimeter, without his base under, different stuff like that,

till that Georgia game. And so for me, that just elevated the wrist just a little bit, just in my mind. Obviously, it wasn't in reality because he went to the NFL and was immediately a stud. But that's why I ended up siding ever so slightly with Bryce Young.

I wish I could have that one back. I ask you that because, you know, it's hard to do this because we have the information from the pros. but if it was like a, you know, a courtroom. And I said, remove everything you know about last season in the NFL. If you were doing a big board with Jaden Daniels in that class,

would you have had him above Bryce Young? Oh, that's interesting. I definitely would have had Caleb as the one. For sure. He's his own little category. Yeah, that's interesting. I haven't thought about that one. I would have had Jaden. Of course, you're throwing out the NFL from last year.

I would have had him above CJ Stroud. You know, like if, you know, you toss that and then, you know, of course, you have to put C.J. Shrardbubham. But just as a prospect, the Daniels against Bryce Young would have been very close for me. Very, very, very, very close. I probably would have had Daniels above Young, but that's pretty close. One, obviously the Titans, they signed Calvin Ridley and Tony Paul or, you know, the way for a lot of these guys, when they signed from a fantasy perspective is like, how's their quarterback going to play?

I remember a couple years ago watching Will Levis. when Liam Cohen was the offensive coordinator of Kentucky, I'm like, this guy's got a chance to be like a top pick in the NFL. And then his senior year, Skangarella comes in, disaster falls. What are your thoughts on Will Levis? Because I get asked about that all the time. You watch him in the NFL like college, the big arm, tries to run fucking people over.

But there's more to playing quarterback. You got to have the touch. You got to have the feel. Obviously, this is going to be a huge year. It's kind of, you know, to be determined. but I feel like he's a pretty polarizing guy. A lot of people either hate him or go, there's something there. And we've seen a lot of guys, I would say, up the Will Levis mold.

The majority of end up not working, right? But he's definitely intriguing. And now there's really no excuses with some of the talent around him. Yeah, he for sure is. And I think he's one of those guys that, and you were sort of indicating this, the better the coaching is, the better the scheme is. I think the better that Levis is. And also the surrounding talent.

He's not one of those guys who's going to elevate everyone around him because of some of the decision-making things and some things that are inherent to his game. But if everything else around him is good, I think that's when you start to see his natural skill set will play up a bit. The reason that I don't think he ever becomes the NFL star and that I was a little bit lower on him last year in the process,

the decision-making stuff. And then the other thing was the pocket presence and then sensing the past rushers. I saw that guy get crash test dummied from the blindside more times than I can count when he was at Kentucky. He just doesn't sense it very well. And then sometimes when he finally senses it, it's coming and he's about to get hit. He'd make a wonky decision.

It's like maybe you should have eaten it there. It's those kind of things that I don't know if that can be taught, that feel. There's things you can teach. We might be able to teach Jaden Daniels the slide. I don't know if you can teach a guy to sense free rushers coming from the blind side, how to manipulate spacing in the pocket, to help out your offensive line, give yourself more space to throw, different stuff like. that. So that's my concern about Levis. But do I think he could be a league average NFL starting

quarterback for a long time? 15, 16, 17 best quarterback in the league for a long time? Sure, absolutely. He's going to be a fascinating guy to watch. You mentioned that Jaden is your number two and May is not third on your draft board. Who is? J.J. McCarthy. I'm a huge fan of J.J. McCarthy. Really, really good athlete. He's going to run in the high four-fords or low four-fives if he runs at his pro day. He didn't do that at the combine. What he did do, though, is weigh in 17 pounds heavier than he was listed in Michigan and did the three cone. He had the fifth fastest three cone at the entire NFL combine, irregardless of position. He's a former hockey player, so he has sort of the dual threat sport thing going on with that. Very good off-platform, out-of-structure guy moving around.

he becomes more dangerous when you move him off his spot. In contrast to some of these other guys in this class, Michael Pennix is an example of a guy who his accuracy depreciates the more that you move him off his spot. McCarthy is the opposite of that. Love him moving around. He's just so fluid with that. He always keeps his eyes down field and his upper body cock to throw with his legs under him.

He's just always in control with that. And that's why he takes the mechanics with him. so the accuracy doesn't depreciate on the move. I think last year was like 72.5% completions just in the overall 71.5, something like that, while scrambling. So, you know, just totally the same with that. He comes out of Jim Harbaugh's NFL factory, won the national championship as a 20-year-old, true junior.

You have all that different stuff going for you. The PFF numbers on him are all great under pressure. You see that when you watch him because he has all the tools in his bag to be able. able to get out of pressure and then solve those problems as well. I just think that there's a lot to like about his skill set. Yeah, I know when I watched him definitely down the stretch just as a couch scout now, if you just live in the moment, you go, yeah, this guy looks like a second or third round pick to me.

But then when you factor in, that's not how you draft a player, right? He's 20 years old. Does he have the physical characteristics? What's the character stuff like? And then obviously you got to factor in the operation in which he's playing in, which isn't exactly, you know, the Mike Leach throwing, you know, that's right. So I, you know, I think he's definitely, would you say, you know, you follow this very closely,

one of the more polarizing prospects in recent memory? Because you're going to have people that think he's like a top five player. Other people think it's crazy to draft him high. Definitely. Yeah. Especially in the quarterback class. But yeah, I mean, overall, I mean, you see a bigger band of outcomes of people like he's this or he's that, probably with JJ McCarthy than any other guy in this class.

but just to your point, you see some really bad narratives out there about J.J. McCarthy, especially about five, six weeks ago. There was some really bad narratives about him coming into the process. A lot of them just had to do with his counting stats. The thing that I would tell people out there, 11 out of the 15 games for Michigan last year, they had a 21 plus point lead. In seven of those 15 games, J.J. McCarthy did not take one snap in the fourth quarter. But in the first half, when they were playing the good defenses,

J.J. McCarthy had a higher percentage of passes against top 25 defenses than any of the top six quarterbacks in this class did in the first half of their games against top 25 defenses. Not only that, J.J.J. McCarthy played against by far the best defenses of those top six guys. Average defensive rank that Michigan played last year, 38.8. The other guys, Jaden Daniels, 46. Penix was 57. Drake, May 61. Caleb was 64. Boenix was 80. So you're facing the much better defenses. And then to the point of the offensive usage. You hear this argument of like, oh, Blake Corum, he was the reason that Michigan was good and JJ McCarthy didn't have to do anything. That's flat wrong. Look at Blake Corum last year. This is the world beater that they're suggesting. The guy had like an elusive rating of like 25

last year, 100 is considered solid for a running back. A Blake quorum only had two yards after contact per attempt. Blake Corum did not have a great year last year. And then they're receiving back, Donovan Edwards, was on a milk carton off. fall. So, yeah, and what Michigan had was that malling, run blocking offensive line, which ranked number two PFF grading. So they would reset the line of scrimmage on first and second down, whatever. But when J.J. McCarthy was given the opportunity to throw, invariably it was on third down. What is that scenario, John? It's when the defense knows what's coming. That is what the NFL cares the most about. Who is the best in the scenarios where the defense knows what's coming?

J.J. McCarthy was by margin. Best quarterback in. in this class, third and long, third and medium, fourth down, you, you, all of that different stuff. It's J.J. McCarthy. And he did not have the receivers at Michael Penningstead. He did not have the receivers that Bonix did. And he didn't get the empty calorie stats either. So like, when you start looking at the correct stats, that's where J.J. McCarthy starts to shine as, as the best quarterback in this class, the on target rate, the third down stuff, the high leverage stuff. That's where he starts to shine. The accuracy and the on target rate on the move, different stuff like that. That's where he starts to shine as one of the best

quarterbacks in this class. And the biggest drive of his career didn't happen in the national championship game, right? It happened in the final four against Alabama down. Yes. With not just his season on the line, but it felt like the weight of one of the biggest football programs in America riding on his shoulder. And he was pretty unflaffable there. So I'm with you.

I mean, two guys, Sam Darnold, $10 million. That's clearly a bridge quarterback. Gardner Minchew to the Raiders. I mean, I think those two teams, are definitely sniffing around quarterbacks come whatever the draft is a month and a couple weeks from now, right? 1,000% yeah. The JJ McCarthy to Minnesota, that's obviously the train.

I'm on, you know, in my neck of the woods. I think he is a perfect fit for what Kevin O'Connell always talks about what he wants his offense to be, right? Moving the pocket, different stuff like that, the play action stuff. You can add some of the RPO stuff. And then O'Connell loves those layering concepts in attacking the middle of the field. There's some quarterbacks in this, Jay and Daniels, we just talked about. That's one thing we didn't see as much with him last year.

Michael Pennix is another guy over the middle of the field. We didn't see much from him in college. J.J. McCarthy's awesome over the middle of the field. Like, that's what he does. So it's on the move. It's attacking the middle of the field. Everything J.J. McCarthy excels at, it's the things that you do in the NFL. It's the things that translate to the NFL.

It's the things that the NFL values. So I just think it took the public a while to come around on it. They needed to hear it from coming from the NFL coming from the top down. I think some of the reporters out there, they hadn't had an opportunity to talk to their NFL sources until the NFL combine. And once they did, you started hearing one by one, those guys coming back and saying, all I'm hearing from the NFL, they're talking about this JJ McCarthy kid. I don't think that was because McCarthy had a really good combine performance. He did.

But I don't think it was necessarily because of that. I think it was because that was the first opportunity for some of those reporters, NFL draft media to talk to their media sources inside the NFL and get a sense of like, oh, you like McCarthy that much? And you started to see him skyrocketing the rankings ever since then. Yeah, well, a good example is I remember watching the Texas game and Pennix, one of the best games of his career, arguably the best. And I'm texting my buddies in the league. I'm like, this guy, top 10. And they're like, I got the second round grades on him. And obviously, you know, Texas is not very good on defense. Then he plays Michigan, which, let's face it,

is much more like playing the Ravens, the Steelers, the Niners, the Rams. I mean, that's an NFL team, and it was a lot for him. And I'm a Pennix guy, of West Coast biased, but you watch that game. One, not just his struggles, but two, he could barely get up by the end of the game. And it was a lot like that in Oregon. You hit him, you're like, is this, would this guy last in the NFL? If T.J. Watt or Nick Bosa, or Cleo Mac, I mean, these guys are bigger in the NFL. There's no disputing his touch.

But a lot like Tua. now he's older and more injured. He's not a big-time athlete, right? He's much more of a pocket, precision passer, and you do the draft. Like, the day and age of those guys is kind of dying, right? You just lost cousins. The Jared Goffs, like, they don't really exist anymore.

And those are not the guys coming in the NFL. So I was hyped up after the Texas game, but more and more information I have, I think it is fair to be a little concerned about how that translates. And again, if you get the guy in the third round, like 100%, but he's not going to go in. the first round. Do you agree with that? I definitely agree. Yeah. And I agree with the second round stuff is I think where he ends up going, you know, at the end of the day. And, you know, the obviously against

Texas, he was awesome, you know, like you mentioned. Then you see against Michigan, that was what it was. Texas, they had the really poor secondary. They weren't able to disrupt the timing of Odunze and Polk and McMillan at all. And so they just had a field day. If you can't disrupt the timing and you also are not putting pressure on Penix, he's going to light you up. It doesn't matter who you are. He's going to light you up all day. Where you start to take his game down, you take the pull out of the middle of the circus tent. It's by disrupting the timing of his receivers. It's why, by the way, Roma Dunzee, if you look at the numbers, was pressed more at the line than any receiver in this class by far. It wasn't because anyone was successful doing it. It was because it was like an attempt

that the opposing, that you could make to try to disrupt the timing of that offense, like right after the snap, whatever. The other thing is pressuring Pennix and pushing him off his spot, like I was mentioning before. I think of Pennix as a sniper. Like, you think of the sniper on top of the building, he's not moving at all. He's got the gun on top of the thing, whatever, and he's just sitting there. He's sitting there. If you have to move the sniper off his spot, his accuracy gets worse, the more he has to move. That is Michael Pennix. If you just keep him there and he can just moved there. He's going to pick you apart all day long. He'll be hitting cans 500 yards away. That's what happened in Michigan, right? He was all over the map. That's it. They had the pressure

on him. They were also mugging his receivers off the line and zero separate. Well, I shouldn't say, O'Donze got separated a couple times. But at that point, they were seeing so many ghosts. You remember that one near the sideline? Wide open. Pinnock's just overshot him. Yeah, he was wide open. So yeah, I mean, but like there was a lot of time. The normal flow of that offense was not happening. And because of that, the timing and the pressure, different stuff like that. Those are the scenarios where you see Penix's game depreciate a little bit. And because of that reason, he needs to go on the second round. But he's going to be playing early in his career and he could have a pretty solid career. I think I comp him to a right-handed Gino Smith. He reminds me a lot of Gino coming out of West Virginia

if you just flip the picture. You know, the arm very similar, the propensity in the pocket, like to have the full field vision, the field spread, everything like that. I think there's a lot of similarities between those two. Okay, get you a couple more questions here on quarterbacks. I got to go back and watch some earlier Drake May because early in the season, clearly he put up a lot of good stats. And then I remember midseason, all the hype, I flipped on the CW, and they had a stretch in the middle of the year. It was pretty ugly. I think he lost the game. I remember the first game I watched maybe to George Attack or something. He lost a bad game and he did not play well. And I was like, I don't quite see it. And I remember texting a scouting director. He's like,

I'm glad we don't have to be in the quarterback mix because there are a lot. And this is, at the time, Jaden was still kind of an unknown, but like he was viewed as, you know, a big time prospect. He's like, not that I don't see it, like I understand, but this notion that he's some, you know, next Justin Herbert or something like pump the brakes, your thoughts on him, obviously he's not. You have Jaden and J.J. McCarthy above him. Where do you rank him as a prospect, just relative to the last couple classes, just overall as a quarterback? Yeah, so I have made quarterback four in this class. And I do have him in the overall top 10. I think he deserves to go in the top 10. So I don't want to nitpick them too bad, but I do think there's reasons, you know, that you could

argue, and certainly I have argued, that maybe you could take J.J. McCarthy over him. Certainly the other two guys I prefer over him. There's a couple things for me. 22, Drake May leads UNC and rushing. There's nothing behind that. Sam Howell ran for over a thousand yards in Phil Longo's system, his last season there. That rushing utility is not translated to the NFL. Drake May this past season, and they switched the offensive systems. That went way down. Drake May is not this stud kind of an athlete. The rushing utility is not translating to the NFL.

He's going to be more or less a pocket passer in the NFL. I love the arm. He has the Hawitzer arm. He has really good touchdown field. That's why he dominated in that Phil Longo system in 2022. Longo loves the throwdown field more than anyone. And he gives the quarterbacks the one-on-one shots. That's where Drake May is having fun, right?

It's this past season where you start to see the struggles. they went into more, I don't want to call it a pro style system, but it was more pro style looks than they were doing with Longo, different stuff like that. I guess you got, especially early in the season, the talent wasn't as good. Josh Downs had left, Tess Walker didn't get cleared by the NCAA till later on. I don't want to, there's people out there that are like, oh, they didn't have any talent last year. That's not true, though.

Like, Tess Walker did come back. Tess Walker probably going to go in the second round. The Nesbik kids pretty good. Like, they got guys out there. But the other thing for me, as far as Drake May goes, is so you don't have the rushing utility. And so he's going to be confined to the pocket. The thing that concerned me about him in the pocket, I don't want to say concern, but the thing where it just lowered the grade for me a little bit with him is I like the way that he

manages the pocket. But when the pass rush is starting to get there, but it's like not quite there, I noticed this bad habit of his to speed up as mechanics really quickly. Like, it's like, oh, man, I got to get the ball out. And so everything goes in fast forward when it wouldn't need to. You see him stop stepping into throws, right? Because then he's getting even closer to that pass rush. You see him start to like do this kind of a thing and try to, you know, sort of just all arm and different stuff like that.

And just like I said, speed up the process. The accuracy started to get a little bit errant in those situations. I think that's why you see the accuracy under pressure numbers pretty bad. Last year, Drake Megan's pressure. 39 for 90. That's 43%. with a 7 to 5 TDI and T ratio. He had under a 60 PFF passing grade in those scenarios,

took 28 sacks. I think that's what it speaks to. He also, going back to the athleticism thing, he doesn't have the athleticism to burst around, you know, the pass rusher, make one guy miss, and then all of a sudden he's getting around at the edge. You see J.J. McCarthy on his film. He'll make a guy miss.

Now he's going this way. Now someone's coming trying to swipe out his legs from under him, but they can't even get his shoelace. You know, he's jumping over him, whatever. And obviously, and obviously Caleb and Jaden fall under that category. Of course. Of course. And Drake, he just doesn't have that. So he's confined back there. And because of that, you see some of these manifestations with him in the passing where it's just like, I need to get the ball out. That's one thing that they need to work on him with of like, this is a situation where you had another half second to a full

second where you need to reset, get your feet square, get your shoulder square to the target, and then step into it because your accuracy is going to play way up. That's one thing in his on-field game where if that was fixed or that improved, him as a passer is going to go way up. That's one concern that I had about him. Okay, Wendon Bow Nix, who I would say behind J.J. McCarthy is going to be the second most polarizing quarterback. What's your take on him?

To me, he's a mid-third round guy, late third-round guy. I know that he's probably going to go in the second round in the NFL draft, but my take on Bo Nix is that the things that he struggled with at Auburn, it wasn't improvement that got those things to go away the last couple years. It was the Oregon offensive system that addressed it for them. I'm talking about things of like standing in the pocket, having to survey all your options, going through multiple options, throwing downfield after surveying multiple options, different stuff like that.

He has a decent arm, but it was forwarded as being like super strong earlier in the process. I saw some people putting that out there. It is not. He can spin it in the intermediate range. I think that's why people have this thought that he has like this super strong arm. But throwing it deep, he's one of those guys that has to throw the entire kitchen sink into it. So it's one of those deep balls where the ball starts to flutter or a gust of wind can push it towards the sidelines, different stuff like that.

And the accuracy isn't very good with it. The other problem is when he has to sit back there in the pocket and survey those options downfield like he's going to have to do in the NFL, he never showed that he had the pocket presence for that. He's not good at reading the defense after the snap. What he's very, very good at is reading it before the snap. He, Bo Nix will run your system for you. And that Oregon system was super-duper smart. All he had to do is go to line.

He'd count where is the numbers advantage? And that essentially told him, where is the ball going? The ball would get out very quickly. Bonix, I believe, had the quickest time to release in this entire draft class. And he also, I believe, had the second lowest a dot. The only guy lower than him, I'm doing this off memory. I'm a little off, forgive me, was Austin Reed of Western Kentucky, the classic air raid offense that Clay Helton runs down there, whatever. It's a Mickey, or I'm sorry, his brother, Tyson

Halton, Clay runs it at Georgia Southern. But everyone acknowledges that that version of the air rate, it's a Mickey Mouse offense where it, you know, it doesn't really translate to the NFL. Bo Nex was running more or less the same thing. Like, I mean, if you look at the A dot, the average time to throw, different stuff like that. Boenix and Austin Reed, it's like looking in a mirror. I know that Bonix was better at that. But the things that I trust Bo Nix with in the NFL, it's he'll run the system. He has decent mobility. And I like his accuracy short and more or less into the intermediate range.

It's the rest of the stuff where it starts to fall apart for me. So maybe you could have you could try to build an efficient offense around him that didn't have any of the explosive element. I think you're asking for trouble if you ask him to sit back there and try to generate explosive plays for you. To work, Sean Payton. I could see that one. You know, desperation is a stinky cologne and the Broncos are in a very desperate situation right now with their quarterback. And it's looking like they could be the ones, I mean, this would be the betting favor right now on the board, that they're going to be the ones that are boxed out of those top four quarterbacks. In fact, it's getting harder and harder to envision them getting up to be one of the being able to take one of the top four quarters. They're behind the Vikings. The giants are a clear and present danger. The top three teams right now, you would put them as favorites to take quarterbacks. that's the case, the Broncos are sort of stuck back there. And then it's like, are you going to overdraft someone at 13 or wherever, 12, wherever they're sitting? Or do you trade back or do you do it, you know, they don't have the second round pick. People need to remember that as well.

But Bo Nix is a guy. I could see as as frustration and inertia starts to set in for Sean Payton here over the next five weeks, as he realizes he doesn't have any cap room, not going to be able to go out and sign you on. And as he realizes the draft equity in Denver's situation is not very good as well. The only way that you're going to be able to swing getting into the top five, and by the way, you're not doing that with the Chargers. Jim Harbaugh is not trading an interdivision rival, his son, J.J. McCarthy. It is not happening. So they need to get up to number four or to number three. I just, I don't know about that. You're going to have to give up your first, your third, your fourth, your next year's one to even begin that conversation. And you're

probably going to have to give up your one after that as well. So now you have no draft picks for years. You also have no cap room. I just don't know. They're in a tough situation. But yeah, I think Bownecks, I could see Sean Payton watching his film and being like, oh, this is a college veteran who had a lot of experience. You know, he's, he was a little over six foot. The mechanics are nice and tight. He's accurate, short and intermediate. He reminds me if a guy used to work with in New Orleans. I could see Sean Payton just slowly day after day talking himself into the idea of bone eggs and then just egregiously over drafting bone eggs. Okay, actually one more. I saw this during the combine. Their measurables were very similar,

and that's Brock Bowers and Sam Laporta. And Bowers has been one of the better players in college football over his three-year stretch. I'm from Northern California. He was a Napa kid, ends up at the powerhouse program and kicks ass. Now, the tight end position kind of polarizing, do you draft a guy really high given that, you know, they technically don't make that much money. I don't see a scenario where he's not a good player, given the way the game's played, given his versatility where he's the Leporte of Kelsey. They're just a dominant wide receiver. Most linebackers are not going to be able to cover him. As a prospect in this draft, where do you have him? Yeah, and I compliment George Kittle, by the way. I went to grad school at Iowa. It sort of feels like he should have been in Iowa tight-down.

It does. Yeah, Kirby Smart, listen to this. It's like, uh-uh. Kirby Smart, by the way, said if Brock Bowler, that they had used them at running back the last couple years, Brock Bowers would have been the best running back on the roster. I don't think of Brock Bowers as a tight end. He's an offensive weapon. He can win on the outside. He can win in the slot. He can play in line, shift him into the backfield.

You can do the end around stuff with him. He's sort of like the Debo Samuel of tight ends. And if you, you know, hand him the ball. He was great as a runner at Georgia. Just manufactured touches for that guy and watch him go. The fit with the charges, you saw a lot of the, the mocks where he's going five. I think that's a little too high just for the player and the type and the position where we're at in the NFL right now. But this goes back into what we're talking

about about the trade down scenario where I think the charges have every incentive to try to move down. The Vikings at 11, they come calling. You're going to have to offer your first round pick next year. So it's going to be 11. It's going to be your 20, 25 first rounder. The Vikings will probably have to also toss in a late day three this year. That should get it done. You can't take Brock Bowers at number five. I don't think. You know where you can take them, though. Number 11. And then you pay them less as well. Then you also have a future first round pick and different stuff like that.

That's what I think would be a really good fit. And a guy that Jim Harbaugh would obviously love. Thor, tell everyone where they can find your stuff. You can find myself on Fantasy Pros and Betting Pros. We have the Fantasy Pros NFL Draft Show with me and Derek Brown, which I'm hoping that you will join us on very soon, John. Chop it up about some more prospects. This was a ton of fun.

And you can find me on Twitter at Thor KU. Thanks, Thor. Take it easy, bro. Hey, good talking to you. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all,

embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever. you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying.

Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined.

And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Cliverts Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations,

stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me, or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Cliverts Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or where wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Hey, this is Robert from the Stuff to Blow Your Mind podcast. Joe and I are both lifelong Star Wars fan, so we're celebrating May the 4th with a brand new week of fun, thought-provoking Star Wars-related episodes. Join us as we tackle science and culture topics from a galaxy

far, far away, such as the biology of tontons and wampas on the ice planet hot, or the practicality and corporate business sense of the Sith rule of too. Listen to stuff to bowl your mind on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Okay, let's do a little thing we call the mailbag at John Middilkoff, Instagram, fire in those DMs, just my name, DMs wide open, get your questions answered here on the podcast. From TJ, enjoy your insight and perspective on football and real world topics. Like this guy. Just wondering your thoughts on the Raiders offseason so far.

Chargers fan that lives in the Central Valley. So naturally, surrounded by Raider fans. I understand the Wilkins signing, and I think it was a little steep, but get the need to solidify the defensive line. I don't get Minchew. Baker Mayfield played for $4 million last year, and is by far a superior quarterback. I have never been impressed with Telethel.

and had a front row seat to his poor management of the Chargers. I honestly can't think of a good free agent signing he had. Then you let Jacobs, maybe your best offensive player, leave to the Packers when I feel like some of that Minchu money could have been spent to keep him around. I don't think Minchu is adding any wins to your win column. Are the Raiders destined for the same dysfunction we saw with the Chargers? Well, the Raiders didn't have a quarterback.

You could not roll into next season with Aden O'Connell. There's a chance he's a fringe backup. We know Minchu is a legit backup. Ideal starter, obviously not. But he got the bridge contract. The reason Baker went for $4 million last year didn't have many people bidding for his services, right? And then he proved that he still was pretty good.

and he got his bigger contract. But Minchu earned himself a lot of money last year playing for Stuyken and just keeping the Colts afloat and really right down to the last game and honestly that last throw, which he missed in the playoff hunt, which the Raiders don't have a serviceable quarterback

that they can compete to be any good next year, right? And listen, Aiden O'Connell did the best he could. I mean, they won a game against the Chiefs where he didn't complete a pass in the second third or fourth quarter. That is not a sustainable way to play. And the Raiders don't control their own destiny for a quarterback in the draft.

So worst case, if they just had to play a season with Minchu and Aiden O'Connell, while obviously going against Herbert and Mahomes, I have to look at the rest of their schedule, not an ideal situation. It's better than rolling in with Aidan O'Connell. and it also allows you, if you are able to draft a quarterback you like,

which we're still a month plus away from the draft, to not force that guy into play right away. So I think it gives them a little flexibility. I hear what you're saying. Like, is Josh Jacobs a better player than Gardner Mentchu? 100%. But if I have to pick a quarterback who I can start with week one or my running back, I don't really have a choice.

So I understand it. do I want to give the guy 15 million? Ideally, no, and would a lot of teams have done it? Probably not, but I do think they're in kind of a unique situation. I think the problem for the Raiders is they have some high-end star players, right? Devante, elite, Colesby, Elite. Wilkins is pretty damn good, and with Crosby might be considered elite. But if you don't have a good quarterback, like you're not going to make the playoffs in the AFC.

So I think there's a ton of pressure on them to just land a quarterback in the draft who becomes a good player. If they don't, I think they'll be destined to what they've kind of been just in no man's land. But I understand the signing. I am not against the signing. And ultimately, when it comes to a team like this, when you don't have a starter on the roster and you don't have a super high pick, you kind of got to do this. you kind of got to sign that bridge player, which is what you want to avoid. I also think this.

Telesco made some mistakes like any GM, but he was a product of like Brandon Staley, Anthony Lynn. They weren't very good coaches. Part as head coaches. Anthony Lynn's a really good assistant. We'll find out with Brandon Staley. One thing with the Raiders, and I understand why they did it

because a couple years ago, I think they regret not just rolling with Rich Basatia, the special teams coordinator when he helped him, you know, when Gruden got fired and he led him to the playoffs, is they didn't want to make that mistake again, and they went with Antonio Pierce, which I completely understand doing it. Now, do I believe Antonio Pierce is going to be a star coach? I think it's very, very difficult when you don't have a quarterback, even if you do have the talent to be a guy. Now, he's pretty outspoken. A lot of pump in his chest, but like he's a former player and was a damn good player. And here's where I support Antonio Pierce.

Who likes you? Who supports you? Well, Marvin Lewis and Tom Coughlin, two pretty high-level football guys are Antonio Pierce guys. So it's why I believed in Dan Campbell. Now, what did Dan Campbell get pretty quickly? He got Jared Gough. So for all the picks that the Lions hit on and the talent they have at all these different positions, if they had a shitty quarterback,

if they rolled out with Aden O'Connell last year, they would not have been that good. So if Antonio Pierce is going to be a good coach, he doesn't need Mahomes. I mean, ideally you get something like that. He just needs a top, I don't know, a guy that's like 14th, right? And if he doesn't get that,

it's going to be very, very difficult. It really is. So I think the success of the Raiders, like a lot of teams, all hinges on the quarterback. Like the commanders, they will be good. They're well-run operation now.

But if they miss on this quarterback pick, they're fucked. The Jets. Like, they miss on Zach Wilson. It had devastating consequences. The 49ers would have been completely screwed if Purdy didn't end up being good as a seventh round pick. So it's all going to come down to quarterback play.

And Gardner Minchu at least can just keep them afloat. This is a little off topic, but I'm a current senior in college and was recently admitted to graduate school at your alma mater, Cal Poly San Luis Obispo. Congratulations. Must be a smart guy. I was wondering how you liked your time there,

and if you would recommend. I loved it, man. It was a pretty special place. And for me personally, it was awesome. I mean, it was, it's just an incredible town in central coast of California. It's not on the water, but you're 10 minutes away from the ocean. Pizmo Beach, Avala Beach.

Without that experience, it allowed me I got to work with the athletic department and then the football program, so it kind of catapulted early on in my career. I don't even know if the school newspaper is in function anymore, but your boy had a little column called Johnny in the Box, but overall, I mean, incredible place.

To go to as an undergrad. Babes, booze, booze, incredible weather, fun party scene, but I would recommend it for sure. Now, I don't know exactly what you're going to be a graduate student in. There's not that much industry there. It's a small, this isn't some big city, but could not have had a better time in college. Was at the USC basketball game and C.J. Stroud walked up to LeBron to say goodbye. I was sitting pretty close.

and he looked really thick. On the slightly shorter side for a quarterback, but extremely built and broad shoulder. We got a little scout here in the stands. I know hindsight is 2020, but I don't know how Bryce Young was taken ahead of him. I'm a believer in being open to average physical traits for some attributes,

but why take the risk on someone so small? Another question. What is the league sentiment on Will Levis? Yeah, I think Bryce Young was a really good player in college. I loved him. You know, playing at Alabama, his instincts, he was a good pocket quarterback.

But once you see him in the NFL, it's pretty jarring. Now, I'm with you. The hindsight's always 20-20, but I think it was pretty universally believed in scouting departments. This guy was a big-time player. Then things change once you get to the NFL.

A lot of guys we viewed as great prospects, and they get drafted high and then they get to the NFL and they're not as good. A lot of guys, someone texted me the other day about Keenan Allen. It's like Keenan Allen went in the third round. Think how many players

who have been out of the league for seven, eight, nine years went above Keenan Allen in the draft. If you would have known that at the time, Kenan Allen's going on like the top 15 of his draft. But you don't. So it's always easy immediately. And here's the thing.

It's not like CJ fell. He went number two. and I don't know this for a fact, but people have alluded to this. I think it's fair to say if the Texans would have had the number one overall pick that they would have taken Bryce Young. So I'm with you. Once you see the guy and then you watch him play, you're like, what are we doing?

But it happens all the time. And it's going to happen again every single draft. So it has a chance to be an all-time mistake. If CJ becomes what it looks like he has the chance to become, and what Bryce is just going to have to overcome with his organization to begin with. You know, it's hard, quote-unquote, league sediment on a player who's young, right? You could talk to people in the league that love the guy or love the guy coming out, and you could talk to people in the league that did not like the guy.

I do think it's one thing. I thought once upon a time, like his junior year, he had a chance to be a top pick, like the number one guy. Obviously his senior year did not go well. Colin talked about some teams, you know, were not huge fans of his lifting regiment. We've seen the dad bods on Mahomes. Brady no longer has a dad bod because he doesn't,

I mean, eat anything with any saturated fat. We were watching the documentary the other night in bed. And I was like, God, Maria, Tom Brady, like in the early, even later 2010s, obviously he's always been a pretty good looking guy, but look like a normal human.

Listen, I don't have any hair, so I'd never blame anyone for getting hair transplants. Tom Brady's hair transplants worked. But it looks like he's got some surgery on his face, but he's never been some huge lifter. You know, Josh Allen, there was a picture circulating about the dad bot. you don't need to be a big lifter to be a good quarterback. You know, Derek Carr, when you watch him during OTAs,

always has his jersey rolled up and his guns. Derek likes the gym. I don't need my quarterback to be in love with the weight room in the sense of curls and squats, squats maybe, but the upper body. It's more about pliability. And that's the one thing when you watch Will Levis physically. I mean, good athlete runs fucking guys over

like he's a linebacker, huge arm, can you be a good quarterback? I would say most people would say, we'll see. Historically, the odds are against you, but the Titans clearly did a good job, or at least we're very, very aggressive of like, we're going to find out really quick. We get him Tony Pollard, we get him Calvin Ridley.

They're going to be aggressive, you know, putting offensive weapons around them. And I think the reason you do that is, one, just you want good players on your team. They are in desperate need of impact offensive skill guys. But also like, I'm not a huge, well, he didn't play with anyone.

Most guys in the league he can't really say that about. Eventually it's like you're playing with somebody. That was the Justin Fields argument. Like, who's he playing with? I don't know, DJ Moore, who'd start on every team in the NFL. Mooney, pretty good little offensive weapon.

Cole Comet, solid tight end. He had enough weapons to prove he was serviceable in the passing game. And now I think we're going to get that with Will Levis this year. At least be able to have somewhat of... I wouldn't say like a bottom line official he's good or bad, but like you'll be able to tell. Is this something worth continuing or something worth pivoting off of?

Like the Falcons. It was clear. Like this guy can't play. And now he got traded and now Desmond Reuters are backup. Are there any restrictions on a signing bonus? If not, for example, if an owner has enough cash, could they pay a player a $200 million signing bonus and $1 million salary and only take $1 million of cap hit? It seems like there must be some limits or there really isn't a hard salary cap.

Well, a signing bonus just means if I pay a guy $100 million in a signing bonus, I think Matt Ryan got like a huge signing bonus years ago, that still impacts your cap. it still gets amortized over the life of a deal. So just if I give you two years, $50 million, and I give you a signing bonus of $40 million. So there's just a difference of just $10 million left that's not guaranteed.

It's just part of the contract. That $40 million, you don't just get to like not put that on the books. It still impacts your cap. So I hear what you're saying. And it's confusing the way the stuff is, reported, but it's not just because you could do exactly what you said, but that $200 million, if it's a five-year contract, still gets, you know, you get to pick and choose where you impact

the cap, but it's, it doesn't just not impact you. It's more likely some teams have more cash on hand. It's why deals get done, right? It's why guys sign because you would always rather have the money today than in a couple years. Inflation, time value money. But it doesn't circumvent your books. I play D3 college ball. Athlete. In Minnesota and still learning something new

every time I listen to the pod. All my teammates want the Vikings to draft pennics because of the flash. I want us to draft McCarthy. I think he's athletic, less injured, a proven winner, and wasn't asked to do anything at Michigan. But if he could, he could do what he was asked to do.

I think our coach is an elite offensive coach and could make him a top 10 NFL quarterback. I just saw we signed Darnel to a one-year deal. What do you think about the Vikings should do with long-term quarterback? Also, I know losing cousins is bad in the short term, but we weren't desperate and now have flexibility and aren't tied to a horrible contract. You know what social media loves to do like when a young player unfollows or follows people? It's like, oh my God, he just took so-and-so team out of his bio. Or, oh, my God.

J.J. McCarthy just followed Justin Jefferson and Jordan Addison. May mean something, may mean nothing. Maybe just, I don't know, wanted to follow those guys. Maybe he meant them training at one of his training facilities. Or maybe he knows the Vikings like him a lot. I would imagine they will be heavily in the mix to drive. to one of these quarterbacks. But this is what I keep saying.

It goes back to the Raiders, the Broncos, the Vikings. They're not alone. And none of these teams control their own debt. You don't know, like, it takes two to tango. Are you going to be able to trade up? Is the team want to trade back? Is the guy that you specifically like there? So it's complicated.

When I watched Jay-J McCarthy, I didn't see some super high pick, but I'm just basing it off. his talent on that given game. Part of the draft is about projecting. Not just what he is right now. What can he be? How old is he?

What are his physical traits? Like you said, what's he asked to do? Maybe it's not fair to just judge him on an individual game basis when he doesn't typically play, right? Just flinging the ball all over the yard, which you would do much more often in the NFL, especially if you had Jordan Addison and Justin Jefferson. So maybe a lot of scouts in front office.

his view, there's a lot of untapped potential. You're an inspiration to achieving great things. Just a podcaster, man. Messaging you about tipping. Last season, I went to the Hawks 49ers game at Lumen Field. Assume that's what Seattle now calls their field. They have a new self-checkout beer lines. That would be awesome if you're like 19 years old.

Now get this. There's a tip option when you ring yourself up. I kid you not. I watch a sheep in front of me mindless added 18% to their insanely overpriced beers. Not us though, John. We're not cheap. That's insane. I notice it sometimes at the gym I go to. The gym I go to kind of is an all in one. There's like a spa there. There's like stores. And there's a cafeteria. And this is always risky. It's like anyone that's a member at a country club knows. You just walk up and go, hey, middle coffee, four beers for my buddies.

Or can I get four hot dogs, four beers, and eight bag of chips and three cocktails? Put it on my name. And I do that sometimes at the gym. The problem is that's not free. You have to pay for it. It gets on your bill. And sometimes, you know, I'll just go up, hey, can I get a smoothie? They make smoothies.

And the smoothie, let's face it, it's way cheaper to make your own smoothies. Sometimes I'm just lazy and I don't want to. to clean up. So I'll just order the smoothie there or, you know, kind of protein shake smoothie. They have a really good one. Moka Java, put a little peanut butter. It's bomb. It's like 12 bucks, which is, again, stupid buy, but sometimes I'm really hungry after, you know, a nice little power lift. And they'll just, the add a tip option. And they're staring right at you. And I feel really bad. But it's like, I just, this is, isn't this kind of, you're just making my smoothie, which half of it's already kind of pre-made. At least there is, like, they're doing something.

self-checkout line tip, that's fucking insanity. That is, that's crazy. And like you say, some people aren't even paying attention, maybe have a couple beers in them already. That's crazy. As a Rams fan, I believe, they make a Super Bowl run next season if they go heavy defense in the off-season.

Do you think using the old model of going all in and F those picks is the best route to take? Maybe going out and bringing in a guy, this guy's already off the board, this is kind of an old question. like Chris Jones or another D-Tackle with it. And I almost said, Antonio Davis,

Aaron Donald, he just wrote AD. Or do you believe they should go a more conventional route? I think you've got to be very careful with that. And they just found themselves in a position, right, where that caught up to them. I think having picks allows you some flexibility and what they did worked. But now they went the other route last year

and a lot of those high picks, or I guess they weren't high picks, but second, third, they even have a second rounder? They definitely had third, fourth. I mean, those guys were a huge reason they were in the playoffs and easily could have won that playoff game against the Lions. So I think there's a balance.

And once you have success with draft picks, cheap labor, it's kind of easier to go that route. Now, as of recording this, you always wonder, like, could they be a sleeper to make a huge trade for a player with their first round pick? I think that's always on the table. I think that's always something

they heavily, heavily consider. they should. But I would for the first time maybe try to use some of my draft ammo because proven like you guys are pretty good drafters. Love the pod. Thoughts on the NFL separating quarterback contracts from the rest of the cap or splitting the salary cap so offensive and defensive sides of the ball are their own cap. We talk about this a lot, making a quarterback contract, a percentage of the salary cap, making somehow to maybe your highest paid player, even if he's not a quarterback if you've drafted them, like a T.J. Watt, Nick Bosa, right, a player, Elaine Johnson, there's some benefit. Like, it does make sense, but it doesn't feel like that's ever going to happen.

We talk a lot about that, and I get questions about that a lot. It's just something you might have a conversation at a bar with, a buddy. But it doesn't even feel like that's ever gained any traction to being reality. So it's fun to talk about, but it doesn't, I do not expect that. because ultimately what that would mean would be the owner spending more money. So the one benefit for them having the hard cap, it does limit how much they can spend.

And if you did something like that, oh, the quarterback contract doesn't count on a second contract. Well, it's not like the players union is going to allow the salary cap to come down. So I think the owners like the gig they got right now. And that would have to be something collectively bargained, which I would imagine they are,

they are just not going to do. Just got my three-in-out hoodie, and it's awesome. Worn it like three days straight. Good man, Steve. Question for the bag. I'm 17 years old, and I'm graduating. Congrats. On a piece of paper, serve you well.

I'm not going to go to college currently in trying to be an equipment assistant for an NFL team. Do you have any suggestions of how I can break into the world of working in football? like that with no serious, relevant prior experience, are there any entry-level positions in the NFL where you can work with something football related? I think that's going to be very difficult.

I really do. To just get your foot in the door as an 18-year-old with no experience and you don't know anybody. The only reason I got in the NFL was knowing people in the NFL, and the only reason I knew people in the NFL as I started in college football. So I don't know your academic situation,

but I would recommend, and I say this to anyone, trying to get their foot in the door related to football, which would mean training, like a trainer, equipment guy, obviously scout, coach, the easiest way to do that is through college. And whether you have to go to junior college

to then go to a regular college, it is really, really hard. if you don't know anybody. It's borderline impossible. When I was in college at Cal Poly, when I didn't know anybody, I sent like, I don't know, probably 15, 20 letters to teams. You just look on the internet, you find, you wrote, not like the head coach or the GM,

just kind of aimlessly sent. You don't even know what you don't even know. And I would say 90% of them did not write me back. I still have some of the letters from like the bears, the giants, The Packers, I mean, they all said no. And these were like the business people. So it's very, very hard, man. If you were going to try to go your route,

one thing you could do is try to find equipment staff, the head of equipment for all these teams, go to the team websites, and then maybe find them on LinkedIn, and, you know, connect with them and DM them that way. But even that, it's going to be hard. Die Hard Washington fan. Collins take that the commander should take Daniels at two,

but like you, I think that the prototypical build of May seems hard to pass up on for a team in dire need. Alan, Herbert, or Big Ben, what are your thoughts? I would just watch the highlight tape of Malik Navors and you watch Shadenials make these throws. Like, he's a legitimate prospect. He's a big-time athlete, he's got a big-time arm, he's accurate, and he's tall.

Now, the knock is he's skinny. But if you feel like he can put on weight, like why can't he become a high-end quarterback? He's not just some tiny little dude, right, who's a good athlete. He's tall. He's just slight. And you can see it on TV or on YouTube when you're watching highlights of him. You could see it at the Heisman when he was in his clothes. But if you believe he can add weight through a strength conditioning program,

it's harder for younger guys to put on weight, just the right eating, get with the new Christianist, I think he's very, very difficult to pass up. You know, May is a huge projection. At least the guy that I watched. Maybe I need to go back and watch more. But the guy I watched was just, I don't know. Smashmouth, the band sent me a DM. Perfection on Purdy with Coward.

I've watched every play since he came in. I don't know what he's talking about. Maybe sometimes I push back on Colin when, uh, When he says, pretty sucks. This guy just sent me NFL media. 2004 scouting combine reaches over 5 million viewers. And his comment was just the NFL is king. Even if you're a junkie, and I mean a junkies junkie,

the combine, I actually enjoy it more for the coaching interviews. Like if you're just watching the workouts, they'll bring in a head coach or a GM to the booth. A college coach, I watch Sharon Moore in there, with DJ and Rich. He was really impressive. Like really impressive. I like that element, but just the workouts.

The 40s, it's cool to watch a guy run a good 40, but just watching guys run 40s over and over can be to me a little boring. I think it's much more of an entertainment product and why I think it resonates is because, you'll just be like, John Harbaugh will be in the booth, Jim Harbaugh will be in the booth. Belichick used to go in the booth.

Like that part's cool. Hi, John. for the bag. Niners are going to be in the market for a backup quarterback. Am I crazy to say they should bring back Jimmy Garapolo? Knows the system, locker room, and has been to a Super Bowl.

I know his relationship with Kyle got weird, but curious your thoughts. I think there comes a point in time where you just move on, and if you get them for nothing, I think it would be enticing to them because they don't have a backup quarterback. Sam Darnold, like, they felt very comfortable with Sam Darnold.

Now, he's gone. Brandon Allen, who they like a lot, it's much different being the third-string quarterback and the backup quarterback. You're one broken ankle from just being the starting quarterback. Shit, it happened to party. So, Jimmy Garoppolo is also suspended, right? He's going to miss the first couple games for performance-enhancing drugs. Which I think it's fair to say.

A lot of times when guys get popped, It's not always just because they want to lift more. A lot of time injury related. You're trying to rehab injuries. So maybe he didn't feel comfortable with all these surgeries he's at. And he's had a lot of them. He gets hurt a lot. I hear you.

Knows the system. Players like him. I have a hard time seeing Kyle go back down that road. But I think you can never say never. I'm a Dolphins fan. I do not like two. Tua. I think he means as a player, not personally. I do not get why they're extending them.

They haven't yet. It's pretty obvious that they are nowhere near the Chiefs, Bills, or Ravens because of the quarterback. We both know Tua won't ever win a Super Bowl, so why would they resign the quarterback? Well, this gets to why the Atlanta Falcons signed Kirk Cousins. Right? This notion of like, I saw Cam Newton shitting on him.

playoff win? Like yeah, it's not about the one playoff win. It's about winning 10 or 11 games. That's all they want to do. They just want to be in the playoffs. They are not trying to win the Super Bowl. They're trying to be in the playoffs. And when Tua's been their quarterback, they've been to the playoffs back to back years. Yeah, they got bouncing in the first round. And they did not win the division. And they're probably worse now than they were last year based on some of the, you know, impact players

leaving. I mean, you lose your second best player. That's going to be hard to fill that void a defensive line, but I just don't know if they have any other options. Now, I tend to be not in the mode of like,

just do it to do it. Like, I understand why the Falcons did it. I don't even think that's that crazy. To me, Tua, it's like, well, how much is he getting? Can I give him Baker Mayfield's contracts? If I could, I would do that. But all these reports are like

$19, $2,200 million dollars guaranteed, $45, $50 million a year? Like, I'm sorry, I'm out. I'm just, I'd play it out another year. That's just not usually what teams do, though. So I, under no circumstances, could sign them to that contract, but I understand why teams do,

but then they end up complaining about it in a couple years, which is what I think would happen. Now, here's the thing. When you sign Tua to this contract, it actually makes the next couple years his cap number cheaper. But it comes into play in a couple years when his cap hit just goes up dramatically. because you push the money back.

I would play it out another year. Doubt they do it, though. You mentioned the 18-game schedule as being a benefit to everybody, especially the players. Financially, not physically. When will that benefit reach the fans? I think about cost per game,

and most games are completely unreasonable to attend. Game time, promo code John, $20 off. How can the NFL make a live spectating experience more accessible to people of all socioeconomic statuses. Well, this is where I think you have misread their business. Their business model is not based on you whether you could afford a ticket or not. They simply do not care. Their business model is getting you to watch those games on television.

Obviously, they make money from people attending their games. But whether you can afford, and listen, these tickets, I've said it forever with the NBA. The NBA media not complaining for years about these guys sitting out was such a shot at the paying customer. It was embarrassing because going to watch a good NBA team with star players is not cheap. NFL tickets, obviously not cheap either if you want a decent seat, 50-yard line, you know, second level, club seats. It's outrageous. I went to a game. I bought some tickets for some buddies a couple years ago, Rams Niners. I spent an astronomical amount on the tickets.

Now, granted, business can write it off. Still, it was a lot of cash. Still, money I had to spend. And I get back to this, and I'll tell you, just like I would tell anyone, whether they have a dollar in their pocket or $100 million in their pocket. They don't care if you go to the games or not.

They simply do not. They care if you watch the games on television. That's where they make the overwhelming majority of their money. That is their business model. So I hear what you're saying But the ticket prices are not going to come down one And whether You know lower middle class lower income people can afford it

They just simply don't care Because if you can attend the games Here's what they know if you're an NFL fan You're going to watch them on TV So when you see all these reports about television ratings That's what matters to them Why? Because that's where they make their money So it sucks

And I've been lucky to go to games for a long time many for free and I never took that for granted now granted I never went to an NFL game until I worked in the NFL in 2010 never attended a game growing up never attended a game in college I just never went

which is crazy to think about but I never did I didn't even go to that many games grown up just in general I went to a couple Giants games and Kings games here and there but wasn't like it was expensive it was just not something my family really did but at the time I didn't view it from my perspective.

And I understand you don't view it from that perspective either, but that's just the simple reality of their business model, is they want you to watch. They just simply, like in baseball, they want you to attend. Why they have 81 home games? And these teams make a lot of money from the gate. The NFL and even NFL teams, sit there on your couch and watch the game,

which sucks if you want to go. I respect anyone who sits really high in the stands. But if you're paying a couple hundred dollars to sit high and you can't see much, that does suck. So, also, my pushback would be, I don't think there's a better seat in the house in the sport of football than your couch. There really isn't. It's a sport literally made for television. It's hard to beat. It doesn't fix your problem, but that's where the NFL kind of measures out on that issue.

Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter.

Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds.

I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me. Clivert Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits,

my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifers Show. This is a place for raw, unfills of conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated.

So let's get to it. Listen to The Clivert Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you, get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok podcast network on TikTok. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.