The Herd with Colin Cowherd - 3 & Out - Giants sign Jameis, Bengals claim they aren't cheap, George Foreman passes away

Episode Date: March 24, 2025

John opens the week diving into the Giants signing Jameis Winston and discusses what this signing means for the Giants as they head into the draft. Next, John talks about the Bengals thinking that because they re-signed Chase and Tee that they aren't a cheap organization. Later, John reflects on the life of George Foreman and how he was so much more than just a great boxer. Lastly, John answers your questions during this episode's mailbag segment. 5:26 - Giants sign Jameis 10:39 - Bengals aren't cheap 20:15 - George Foreman passes away 35:15 - Mailbag Follow John on Twitter, Instagram and YouTube for the latest. Check out Gametime - the fastest growing ticketing app in the US, and the official ticketing app of 3 & Out and GoLow -  for tickets to all of your favorite NFL, NBA, NHL, NCAA teams. Concert and comedy show tickets, too. Go to Gametime now to create an account, download the app and use code JOHN for $20 off your first purchase. #Volume #HerdSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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What is going on, everybody? How are we doing? John Middilcock, three and out podcast. Recording Sunday night, watch the little NCAA tournament this weekend, play a little golf, and said, you know what? Let's record a podcast for my. Monday morning. I didn't record one with Colin. It's like, I'm kind of juicing to get some takes out there. And some stuff happened. Do you want to dive into some of the dominoes that are falling with the quarterbacks and the draft

picks at the top. So we'll dive into that. The Bengals signing their guys, claim they're not cheap. But let's dive into the numbers. And then George Foreman passed away. I didn't want to dive in because someone who's used a lot of cheeseburgers over the years. the George Foreman grill was a huge part of my life and I kind of did a deep dive this weekend. What an incredible entrepreneur George Foreman was. And then of course, little Middlecoff mailbag at John Middlecoff is the Instagram.

Fire in those DMs. We will, yeah, I guess the game plan this week. We'll just be shows and we'll just fire out. So look for podcasts. Make sure you subscribe to wherever you may listen to this podcast. Spotify, Apple. You name it.

We got you covered audio. Video-wise. We got a YouTube channel. Make sure you subscribe to that as well. A lot of content up there. And let's talk a little football. But before we dive in to James Winston, I do need to tell you about my friends, my partners,

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you see a team signed Kirk Cousins and give him $100 million and then draft a quarterback with the eighth pick and everyone is shell shut. But for the most part, you can kind of put the pieces of the puzzle together. And there are some major question marks with some teams. What are you going to do at quarterback? And on Friday, it was reported. Aaron Rogers was in Pittsburgh, spent all day, which I would imagine with guys like Mike Tomlin, Arthur Smith, and other Pittsburgh Steelers. I think it's pretty clear that if Aaron Rogers, he has two options.

He is going to retire or he's going to be a Pittsburgh Steeler. Now, of the pie chart, I would say that feels like 80% Pittsburgh Steeler, 20% retirement, and maybe even just 18% retirement, and then holding out hope. Some in OTAs, they freak out about J.J. McCarthy and give Aaron Rogers a call. I still think that's pretty unlikely at this point. Well, if Aaron Rogers isn't going to the Giants, the Giants going to do. And over the weekend, the betting favorite for the number two overall pick, it's pretty clear. The Tennessee Titans are taking Cam Ward. Like that's period, point, blank,

end of story. They are taking that quarterback, and you could look at the free agent moves that they did not make to go, yeah, that's going to happen. Then you look at number two, you're like, well, the Browns, the Deshawn Watson situation is a disaster. He's got a torn Achilles. They got Kenny Pickett somehow now on their team. What are they, Miles Garrett goes, I feel comfortable with what we're going to do? No, Miles, they gave you $140 million guaranteed, and you took it, don't blame you, but it doesn't matter who's playing quarterback when they threw that type of money at you, because you would just demand it to trade. I do think it's, my educated guess, well, Kirk Cousins will end up being on the Cleveland Browns. But based on the betting odds, Abdul Carter looks like

he's going to be the number two overall pick. So the Giants are sitting there at number three. And now they sign James Winston. Pretty clear Aaron Rogers is not coming their way. And I think when you look at John Mara last year in that GM off-season hard knocks, like, he's no dummy. He knows from a business standpoint, it's not good to lose your best players. It's why he was adamant, like, listen,

Sequan's our most popular player by far. And I've been in this operation long enough to know that kind of fucking matters. We've had some pretty popular players over the years. While we've won and while we've lost, and they help drive this business. Because you know what no one likes when the team sucks and you don't have any

popular players? And you look at Shador Sanders, like, one, they're desperate. They don't, their quarterback situation since Eli left has not been good. And two, like, it would be good for business. And if I'm John, if I'm the owner, I'm like, hey, guys, we're taking Shador Sanders if he's there at three. And based on the gambling odds. And, uh, I feel pretty confident that he's going to be there.

And I saw Albert Breer say this. You know, the, the most unique thing about Shador Sanders. is like, he'd go third or fourth overall, or he could just plummet in the draft. I think when the dust settles, he'll end up being the third overall pick and be a New York Giant. And I think James Winston, who has done one of the great turnarounds in the history of American sports, is just like the guy you kind of want in your locker room. He's positive, uplifting, just solid backup quarterback. Now, if you have to start him every game, you're going to have problems.

A lot of jokes on the internet that look for Maliki. neighbors to have like 7,000 yards. But I think the best part of signing a guy like James Winston, if you're the Giants, and you draft Shador Sanders number three overall, you literally can do anything you want. You can start James Winston week one and just kind of let it play out. You can just say there's an open competition. You can immediately name Shador Sanders the starting quarterback in training

camp. Nothing matters in terms of his standing of anything being weird. So I also think this, you know where I stand on skill guys really high in the draft relative to linemen, but because this draft does not have any sure things besides most people think Abdul Carter is just at worst going to be a solid pass rusher. There are a ton of question marks with the offensive lineman in this draft. It's pretty clear if you watch football, the New England Patriots are desperate for some tackles. But you look around this draft and you go, I don't see me.

any Lane Johnson's and Trent Williams. So I think you would have to take Travis Hunter at 4. So where I sit here on Sunday afternoon, if I was a betting man on the draft, I would go Cam Ward 1, I would go Abdul Carter 2, I would go Shadour Sanders 3, and Travis Hunter being 4.

Let's dive into the Cincinnati Bengals because I saw this tweet from my buddy Jake Rosenberg, who used to be Howie Roseman's right-hand contract negotiator for well over a decade. at the end of my time there, he came in, and up until last draft, so a little under a year ago, he worked with Harry Rosen. And he had worked in finance before, and then he got into contract negotiation, and he was running point on all this stuff for a decade plus.

And he had a tweet yesterday that, let me pull it up right now, that got my brain moving. So we started texting. Here was the tweet. Reducing current cap numbers. through extensive use of pro-ration, to pro-rate the numbers, provides a team free options with literally no downside. To purposely decide to not pro-rate is indefensible. Help me understand the other side to this if I'm missing something.

He's essentially saying when you sign a big contract and you take the signing bonus, the guaranteed money, it makes no sense to not take that 50 million, 80 million, 100 plus million, obviously with the quarterbacks, and pro-rated over the life of the deal. So, early on in those contracts, the cap number like a Justin Jefferson or CD-LAM last year, is actually much smaller than it would have been

if they just would have played on their fifth-year option. That's the benefit you have of signing these massive contracts is you can push it all down. The 49ers and Eagles and Browns and these teams paying massive cash for these contracts over the last couple of years have made a living on doing that because it enables you to have high-priced players

but still have wiggle room to compete and sign other guys. But the Cincinnati Bengals, because I didn't quite know what he meant, so he started texting about it, he said, well, look at Jamar Chase and T. Higgins contracts. Their cap number in the first year is not very low.

And I don't pretend to be some capologist, so I had to do some digging. I went to guys like, Justin Jefferson and C.D. Lam, who signed enormous contracts a lot like Jamar Chase last season. Here were their cap numbers, not their actual contracts, but the way it impacts the cap to enable you to pick up 5%, 10%, whatever, more space to do more business with other people. And you never know. It doesn't mean you have to sign someone right now, but something happens in the season, maybe a trade, plays itself out, maybe over the course of the next year, because you can roll over

cap space, you can make an aggressive deal. Because the Cincinnati Bengals, when they signed two players and took this victory lap on social media, like it's some novel concept to pay one, one of the best players in the league, and another guy who's obviously really good is some crowning achievement, the more and more that I thought about it was kind of fucking embarrassing. This is not money that you've had to put in hard, work to generate. You're part of a partnership that generates billions of dollars. And whether you know what you're doing or not in the business of the NFL, if you own the team,

you get a free $400, $450 million every year. And I don't know the last time you checked, but the salary cap has never sniffed the amount of money that they're getting from these television partners. And that doesn't even factor in anything game day, tickets, all that other stuff, which the Bengals aren't going to be the highest team in the league. But that's just free money. And the other thing is that when you factor in the bangles who always push back, we're cheap, we're cheap, that's bullshit, that's bullshit, we pay Joe Burrow. Again, this is money, whether you win one game or 15 games every year is coming to you no matter what. And because of the partnership agreement that you're in with the players, you have to split, I forget the exact

number 49, 50, 51% has to go to them. So like you are in a partnership not only with the other teams in the league, but then with the players association. So like, money comes in, then you got to give half a bit away. Right? Now, you can control how much of that cash is given to certain players. It's why the crazy part about the business of the NFL is like the money has to be paid out. Yet as a player and your agent, you have to fight for those dollars.

But I think with the Cincinnati bangles, you go, well, listen, you give them all this money. You're in this win now mode. You can get their cap numbers really small. you can extend Trey Hendrickson. Hell, you could trade your first round pick for some sweet player. Right? You could be really aggressive. But last year, Justin Jefferson, so I did some digging.

I did a little typed in some names, chat GPT, contracts, spot track. And I looked at Justin Jefferson. Last year, signed a massive biggest deal ever. His cap number in 2024 was $8.6 million. His cap number in this upcoming season is $15 million. CD Lamb, basically the exact. same. $8.7 million last year and this year $15.3 million. Now, look at the Minnesota Vikings, for example. They had all that cap space, even though they're paying this guy all that money,

they roll it over this year and they're super aggressive and they start buying players. Then I look at Jamar Chase's number. So those guys, in their first year of their big contract, $8.6 and $8.7. Jamar Chase is 23.5. And in their second year, both those guys are $15 million. our chase is $26 million. So instead of pro-rating it out, they've had bigger cap numbers. Why? Because the faster you get to that 100%, you can be like, we don't have any more cash to spend. We don't have any more cap space to sign any players. Because ultimately the cap space, it's less about that and more about Mike Brown just giving out more signing bonuses to people. Again, it's why it's so embarrassing about that victory lap that they took on social media. It's like,

yeah guys you signed one of the best players you've ever drafted in Jamar Chase and you gave him a lot of money but then you didn't manipulate the cap like every fucking team worth their salt because you try to like have your cake and eat it too like hey we want credit but we're not going to sign anyone else and then T. Higgins T. Higgins cap number in 2025 this upcoming season is actually bigger than Jamar Chase now T. Higgins didn't sign a contract like Chase like Chase like Jefferson or C.D. Lamb. You could compare his contract much more like Brandon Iyuk. Well, last year, Brandon Ayyuk, who was going to have to play on his fifth year option, the moment they extended him, his cap number last year was $5.7 million.

And Brandon Ayuk, who's driving the Niners nuts because they think he got over on him and they would trade them, but they can't get any value back, his cap number in 2025 is $11 million. So Higgins, while his cap number does go down, in this fall, this next season, it's still almost $20 million. So what they have done is, they did pay these two guys, but they've also kept their cap numbers high.

So it's like, okay, Joe, like, yeah, you've got enough juice, you can boss us around, and we'll take care of your two guys, but we're not going like Eagles, Niners, Vikings, we're just going to give out all this cash to all these other players.

Because at the end of the day, it's in our blood. I've said this forever. Super rich people that are really frugal. And I got no problem if it's the patriarch. Sam Walton. I just listen to Made in America.

It's like the story of Walmart. Notoriously cheap, right? But like that's his baby. He started it from scratch. He can still relate to the times when they had no money. Like, I'm sorry, Mike Brown. You were, this is a family fucking business. You didn't buy this team.

And now you guys have more money than you know what to do with. So still doing stuff like this, you're an unsirious franchise. You really are. You're an unsurious franchise that drafts pretty well. Obviously, Burrell fell in your lap. Nailed that one. Jamar Chase, you get credit on that one because you could have taken Penaiseul, good pick.

T. Higgins, excellent second round pick. But you want to have like milk and cookies because you gave out some money that gets handed you through the league partners. Like, I'm sorry, not doing that. And when you factor in the numbers, like you don't need to be Howie Roseman

here to go, they're kind of manipulating the books here. Not in a way to take advantage of the situation. Like the Eagles have done forever. Why? Because their owners willing to give out big cash. Which the Niners have done the last couple years, which they went six and eleven, their owner freaked out. The Bengals ain't doing that. And they'll never do that. Because as long as the Brown family owns the team, they will do stuff like this. Honestly, kind of embarrassing. Props those two guys for getting what they deserve. But, and listen, the other thing with Higgins is like, I like the guy. But like, you want all this

credit, I think a lot of people would go, is this the right business move? You're kind of getting bitched around by Joe Burrow, which I totally understand. You don't want to piss him off. But then you do it, and then you do it in a way where your team, the best case scenario over the next couple of years, can't be as good as they should because you just refuse, I don't know, to pro-rate the contracts? Man, it's a disease, man. Frugality with the super rich who did not earn the money is just, it's just deep in their soul. Nothing you can do to fix that disease. Okay, let's, let's end on this. George Foreman passed away. And I think there are certain people with every generation that you know, not for what actually made them famous. Right. Like John Madden,

I don't remember when I learned that he was actually a coach, but it was well after I knew John Madden as being the guy with the video game and that called, you know, 49er games and Packer games and Cowboy games that was a superstar on Fox. Then you're like, as you get older, honestly, it might have been a decade. It might have been until I was after high school that you're like, this guy used coach for the Raiders. This guy was a legendary Raider coach in the 70s. But when you're coming up in the 90s, all you know is like, this is one of the most unique individuals ever on my television and my favorite video game. And I think George Foreman, for people in my generation, is known as the guy with the grill,

not as the guy that was part of what many would consider, I don't know where you would rank it, but probably the most famous fight of all time. Definitely one of the biggest fights in the history of the sport, the Rumble in the Jungle against Muhammad Ali. And George Foreman then parlayed that to become one of the great, businessmen, I would say definitely in the 90s, but you could argue in the history of former athletes. And I just want to read you that really quick, I've always still had this theory because I'm a good example of, I make my money with the modern day technology internet.

Because of the cell phone, I'm able to monetize my profession. If that 20 years ago, this didn't even exist. I couldn't have and make a living off what I do now. It would have been in radio, and I would have had to move city to city or figure out a way, right? But because of technology, which I'm very grateful for, and it has its downfall, social media, you name it. But without social media, the phone, and those things, I would not be sitting here today being able to do this. I've always thought that, and listen, I think the internet and everything that's going to on like I try to be a glass half full guy and be positive with everything that's associated with

and be optimistic about its future, even though it can drive us all nuts. If you are famous now because of the internet, doesn't mean you're not famous. You could have millions of people follow you on social media and you can make a ton of money, quote unquote, being an influencer. But you could be a person making millions of dollars that me, that you have no clue even exists. I do think that was really hard to do pre-internet. And the fame of people pre-internet was just dramatically bigger than what it is now. Because if you were famous in the 50s of the 60s, Elvis Presley, John Wayne, Frank Sinatra,

everyone knew who you were. When I was a kid, people like Michael Jackson, Michael Jordan, whoever, right? Obviously athletes, but musicians, the Kennedys, you name it. You could go into any walk of life. Every single, I could knock on every single door walking down the street. And every person that opened their door on my block, on the block down the street, would know exactly who Michael Jackson was or Robert F. Kennedy was. Or Elvis Presley was.

Now there are people, you'd be like, hey, this person's making $20 million. They're a Bravo store. You and me couldn't point them out of a lineup. And honestly, some of these I could now because Maria's wrote me in. But there are these people in. all these different walks of life because of the internet that has changed the world. And George Foreman's fame in the 90s is something that we don't really see anymore. And sometimes I miss it.

It's like we hear about shows and there are some shows that I would say crossover. But like for the most part in the 80s or the 90s, everyone watched the same shows. And we all had opinions on the same thing that we were all watching. It's what makes football so unique. It's the only thing in America now that can consistently get 15, 20, 30, 30. million people all sitting down at the same time and consuming. That doesn't happen anymore, which is just part of modern day society. But I saw what's funny is, I don't know when it was, but maybe a week ago, I saw something on George Foreman on Instagram. And it was an interview

series that he did with that Graham guy that has like the internet. He's also, I think, I forget what channel he's on, but he interviews a bunch of famous former athletes. And they were, were breaking down how much money George Foreman was making off the grill. And I was blown away. I knew the grill was a really big deal. And then over the last 24 hours,

once he passed away, I kind of just did some deep diving. One stat I saw on the George Foreman grill is that it was estimated between 12 to 15% of America had the George Foreman grill.

And this is just from Wikipedia, but it's pretty crazy how big George Foreman turned this grill into. And if you are, I would say, 25 or under, you have, it's hard for you to comprehend how universally agreed upon. Every person just had a George Foreman grill in their house. I don't remember many people that I grew up around, not having it. And definitely as you got to college in the early to mid-2000s, it was a staple of every house, mainly because it just worked and it was really easy. I mean, it's actually one of the more practical inventions in recent memory. And then doing the deep dive, you realized that like all these other celebrities tried to copy it. Avander Holyfield had this

thing like the lean, mean grilling machine. Clearly that didn't work. Jackie Chan tried one. A bunch of famous people tried it. But nothing was like this. And the worldwide popularity of the George Foreman Grill has resulted in sales. This is from Wiki of over 100 million units since it first launch. I chat GPTed it because I couldn't remember and it's a long time ago, how much George Foreman grills were going for. And there were different models, but basically 4999 to 89.99, selling over a million, 100 million units.

Although Foreman never confirmed exactly how much he earned from his endorsement, Salton Inc. paid him $138 million in 1999 in order to buy out the right to use his name. So in 1999, this invention started in the early, I think, 93 or 94. And he had become, he had gotten royalties of it over those six or seven years. And then in 1999, he was paid $138 million. I mean, it's a big deal now when Miles Garrett gets $130 million. $138 million in 1999, but here's the thing.

Previous to that, he was being paid about 40% of the profits of each grill sold, earning him about $4.5 million a month at its peak. So there was a period of time, whether it was a year, a couple years, he was making four to five. And he said on the Instagram thing, he's like, I was making $5 million a month. And then he eventually bought out for $140. million dollars. So it's estimated he made well over $200 million from his endorsement, a sum that is substantially more than he earned as a boxer. Obviously, he didn't earn that much as a boxer because in the 70s, they weren't paying big frets. But, and George Foreman was a guy, he lost to Ali,

and he never got a rematch, was kind of crazy, but beat Joe Frazier, who obviously had some legendary fights with Muhammad Ali as well. But I think when we talk about influencers, and then that's just a trendy term because it's real. I mean, there are people that push a lot of product as just quote unquote influencers on YouTube, on Instagram, on TikTok. I mean, there's part of our show that, you know, there's an influencer element, but that's just the nature of the business as a podcaster, which used to be radio, of the audio medium. But just someone who doesn't have a podcast or a TV star or whatever, I'm just, I'm just a human and I'm just pushing a product, you could argue George Furman's one of the greatest salesmen in the history of America.

And the business deal that, you know, whether he decided it, whether his manager did it, to originally get that 40% of the profits to then parlay that into the power of his name. But like, this product not only worked, everyone had it. Honestly, 15% feels a little low. At least in my life, whether it be growing up or whether. it being college. And the other thing that the grill had is it like crossed all demos.

Like some items in life, right, are for either higher income households, lower income households, like whether you were rich, whether you're a middle class, whether you're a poor. Like, this fucking thing was a must have.

And our RIP to a champion, you know, back, it was before my time, but heavyweight boxing, I mean, how badass, how famous these guys that were just massive throwing blows. It's just kind of, it's dead. But one of the greatest entrepreneurs in the history of professional athletes.

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We created our own podcast called, Hey, Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to a... We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts. We're starting a trend.

But this one's extra. special. So how did we actually come up with a name Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it. Well, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band before Jonas Brothers. This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast, where people could call in and say, hey Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little Notepad Hey Jonas and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys.

Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smigel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel. help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform?

We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Jacob Kingston grew up in an isolated polygamous sect. We were God's chosen kingdom on earth. He felt destined for greatness. So when a swaggering Armenian businessman catapults Jacob into an extraordinary

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But with two kings from entirely different worlds, just how long can their empire survive? The largest tax investigation in American history. You need to tell me what you know. is somebody coming after me. Jacob told Levan, you're ruining my life.

Listen to Kingdom of Fraud on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise. Breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories.

stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to Sports Slice. On the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slica Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Okay, let's do a little thing we like to call the Middilkoff mailbag at John Middlecoff.

At John Middlecoff is the Instagram, fire in those DMs and get your questions answered here on the show. I got a lot of them. So again, I say it all the time. If you have DM me and I have missed your your question, sometimes you got to reping me, you know, getting married. read. I got so many DMs and it's just all, it's not as fluid as it usually is. In Instagram naturally isn't exactly like an Excel spreadsheet

where it's easy to kind of sort. So it's, I kind of got to do it manually, which that's the toughest thing you got to do all day. I don't get to complain. But I know a lot of you guys, if you're going to spend effort or energy to shoot me a DM with a question, I do

want to try to answer it. So just sometimes reping me, we will start with Lauren. Am I the only one who thinks the conversation around Dion becoming a coach in the NFL

is a bit ridiculous. All the credit in the world for turning around an embarrassing program in just one season. Two. First season didn't go that well. But I hear you.

No shot. I enjoyed watching Colorado. But the idea of him taking over an NFL head coaching job seems kind of nuts. Schematically, he doesn't bring much to the table. And I think most of his success in college

comes from his ability to recruit top talent, though his fame and notoriety. Plus, I find it hard to imagine NFL players responding well to his leadership style. Do you think this is just a media-driven conversation or do you actually see real value in hiring him as a head coach? Also, could that affect Shador's draft status? No.

I don't think Deon's impact. Shador, people are going to draft him because I think he can play. I think the Deon impacts a little overrated. unless he like pulled an Archie Manning but just like him around I don't think has much if any impact

I would say that Dion shot that down Dion I mean Dion had to talk with Jerry Jones who he's known for 30 plus years right when he signed there in whatever 95 96

Deon says he has no desires to coach in the NFL he does not want to do that and and I forget you know exactly what he said but like part of it like what he brings the table is the impact and if you watch you know I follow Colorado on social media and stuff like his his impact and the stuff he likes talking about is much closer to I don't know the Sabins and the you know he played

for Bobby Bowden I I envision him being a college head coach for a long time and I actually think they're one of the more fascinating teams to watch this season now with Shador and Travis gone, like if they are good, honestly, they go seven and five, they win eight games. I think he is getting a job in the SEC.

I mean, I would guess, unless Colorado just implodes, which I don't think they're going to do. You know, he brought him Marshall Fulks, now his running back coach. Their D-line was way better

while he hired Warren Sapp. My guess is he's in the SEC in a couple years. So, yeah, I just, he pushed back against that. What's he supposed to do? Now, I pick up Jerry's call. But I envision him.

I mean, he could get a job at Florida or Florida State or LSU or something next couple years. Pays him $14 million a year. And he can pay all of his buddies on his staff huge cash. So I envision him as a college coach for a while. Which I give him a lot of credit for doing this. It's one thing, the power of coaching your sons, which essentially I would put Travis Hunter under that umbrella too and that's the way they talk about it.

Travis, Chador's son's quarterback, Shiloh. Now that they're gone, I mean, they're all gone, for him still to have the passion. And if he's going to do this and if he does it for a long time, he does not need to be doing this. He's pretty rich. So I give him a lot of credit if he just does this for a long time because he's giving back to a game that, let's face it,

A lot of super famous rich people don't necessarily do it. I don't blame anyone if they just want to retire and hang out, but a lot of people could bring a lot of value and they just refuse. Any of these Hall of Fame, super rich players that either go into front offices or coaching in college or the pros, like, their love of the sport runs deep. Your podcast is a lifeline while trucking.

My question for the pod is how long do bus quarterbacks, bounce around the league until they just disappear. I feel like the dust has settled, and only people who are going to have a decent career is Sam Darnold and Baker Mayfield. You know, there's always a curveball. There's always a guy that's been a backup for a while that gets an opportunity that excels, right?

I mean, it's happened historically. Kurt Warner is the best example, who was like a fringe nobody and then got his chance in his late 20s. Gannon going back to the late 90s is another guy that bounced around. Jim Plunkett was a guy who bounced around forever and then won a Super Bowl with the Raiders. So I think you just never know. Like could Zach Wilson or I almost said Mack Jones.

I don't even believe that. But Zach Wilson is probably a bad example. I mean, who knows? You know, he's getting backup jobs now. I'm trying to think. Yeah, I mean, it's very unlikely. So we could go through a period of time where it does not happen. But I would agree that where we sit here right now.

And Sam Darnold has to play well to sustain this. Like Baker Mayfield's a starting quarterback for the foreseeable future. Baker Mayfield is a really good player. He's done this a couple years now. And he had one really good year in Cleveland. Like, Baker-Makers is a good player. You can't even argue. Darnold, I'm pro-Darnold, but if he has a bad year this year,

this year. I mean, we could look back and it happened sometimes in sports. Like, Outlier. Used to happen a lot in the steroid era. Like, there'd be a random dude that would hit like 58 bombs. Like, where'd that come from? It's like Mexico. Horse steroids. Humble Chiefs fan. It's clear

the Eagles are on a whole other level with that ass whipping served up in the Super Bowl. My question is, how long do you think the Eagles can keep this train rolling? We saw them offload some older defensive players, Slay, Brandon Graham retired, but have seemingly already drafted

their replacements that are playing out of their minds year one as we saw, on top of Vic seemingly unlocking Jalen Carter. They locked up Berkeley and have all the other notable offensive pieces under contract for the foreseeable future. I think the limit of this Eagles dynasty window is completely dependent on how long the Eagles

front office is willing to keep the game together. Yeah, I mean, they're going to be really, really good. I actually think the only question mark this upcoming season is just the guy calling place. You know, I don't know exactly Kevin Patolo. If I'm saying his name wrong and he's listening, I apologize, Kevin. But listen, that's a pretty big transition. Felt like Kellyn had a pretty good feel for running the ball and Jalen and just managing

those personalities with Nick. But, like, the offense, I mean, there's just a lot of pressure in that city. And it's like, it's one of the places where there's not like a huge celebratory, you don't just get a free year. Like if they start one and two, people would be freaking out. So it's a unique place with the pressure, but there's no, the talent on their roster is just immense. And like you said, well, they lost some depth. You know, Derry Slay is still a solid player, but you're not, you weren't going to pay them whatever,

$15 million. So I would imagine they draft another corner. Right? They will need to, they'll draft defensive linemen. But that's Vicks. Kind of his go-to thing. The ability to coach those guys up. And offensively, even if the O.C.

is a little bumpy, their team is just so stacked. And here's the thing. When Jalen gets a little off-kilter, which he's been known to do, just hand the ball to 26. It's like, well, who's blocking for him? I don't know. Probably the best offensive line in the elite.

It's like that's what they have in their back pocket. When the passing game gets weird, hand the ball off. And then hand the ball off again. And then hand it off again. So my guess is the Eagles will draft defensive linemen. Wouldn't shock me if they drafted a running back at all. Not super high, but like in the third round. Just to give Barclay some blows and have like get that young run,

this running back class is so deep. Have them around Segoan Barkley. Let them teach them. So, yeah, I mean, I think the Eagles are going to be good, man. I do. I think the Lions, when they're fully healthy, are going to be good. You know, I think the Vikings are just one of the great wild cards just because I, the quarterback.

I don't, I don't feel comfortable saying like, yeah, they're just right there. Like JJ McCarthy, can he just go toe to toe with the lions and the Eagles and the Rams? I don't think, I wouldn't write up the Niners just yet. Packers, too. I mean, the NFC is, it's not as star-studded as the AFC with Mahomes and Josh and Lamar, but the teams are good. I mean, the teams, let's face it, the teams in the NFC, I feel like are better than the teams in the AFC depth-wise. I mean, the Steelers made the playoffs.

I think the Packers are better than the Steelers, right? And that Bronco team, like, now, those teams are going to be better, but like the Vikings were the 50s. the Rams were the 6th. I mean, the Rams were the four seed. Who was the... Who am I missing? Packers, the Vikings. Am I missing a team?

Tampa. I don't know. My brain's not working. It's crazy. You just start... Some of your details, you're like, well, who went in Tampa? Yeah, they played them.

They played the Rams. I am missing a team, though. Because the Rams played the Eagles. So that's the 2-7. The Vikings played the Rams. That was the 4-5. And I guess the Rams, the Packers? It's crazy.

I feel like, I'm like, do I even follow this league? Let's do a quick check. Who am I miss? Oh, the commanders. Tampa. Yeah, the commanders. I forgot about the commanders. My bad.

It's funny. When you haven't been in the mix, you forgot about. They won't be forgotten about because they're going to be good again. The older I get, the more practical I become. I don't have that third beer. I gravitate to my briefs instead of boxer briefs. I don't want my team to always make the sexy draft pick or free agent pickup. How do teams decide whether they swing for the fences first the safe depth pick?

Thanks, John. That's a good question. I don't think there's a right or wrong answer on that. you know, I think you allocate resources, whether it's free agency. It's like, would we be willing to go in on this? And then sometimes there's a bidding war and you just pull out. I think I saw, you know, the Panthers were all in on Milton Williams. And then they got to a number and they're just like, yeah, we're out.

And the Patriots went to a place that they weren't willing to go. And I got to be honest, like, if I was the Panthers, like, I'm not paying Milton Williams $26 million. I'm just not doing it. The Patriots, you could argue that, and I like Milton Williams. That contract's crazy. You're giving a guy, I think they gave him $50 million guaranteed. He's never played more than 50% of the snaps. He's like one big breakout year.

Like that's, sometimes you get money, like, I'll go back to this guy, McGlinchie. I remember when the Broncos a couple years ago gave McGlinchie $50 million guaranteed. I'm like, that's insane. But no one's ever said, you know what? McGlinchie only plays 50% of the snaps. No, McGlinchie was a full-time starter for. five years on the San Francisco 49ers on teams that were winning.

So it's like, yeah, I wouldn't want to pay him that much money to be my starting right tackle. Hell, I wouldn't even want him to start and right tackle. But, like, I get it. Milton Williams, like, well, can you carry us? Can you get nine sacks in a year? Can you be a pro bowler? These aren't just unknowns.

They're like unlikely. So yeah, I think there's probably a balance between like drawing a line in the sand in terms of free agency or trades. There are probably other teams. I heard of a really good team in the AFC. A really good team. That was talking about Laramie Tunzel.

But guess what Houston told them? They had to pay way more than Washington had to pay for Laramie Tunzel, which I totally understand. Why? Because we'll probably see you in the playoffs. Hell, we might play in the regular season. We play you every year. Right. We'd have to go through you.

So that team's like, well, we can't do this. It was much easier for the commanders, right, who probably paid, I don't know, 30% less to pull the trigger. Easy move for them. For the other teams, like, we really need this guy, but holy shit, that's a lot to ask. So I think the more confident you are with your operation, I think the more patient you are in some of these situations. but there's not a right and wrong way to do things because sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. I bet there were people thinking that how he gave,

wait, you're going to give Sequin a multi-year deal last year? I bet there were people around the league that were like, that's a stupid deal. That's not going to work out. Hey John, got a mailback question about players, injuries, and their recovery. It always amazes me how quickly guys in the NFL can recover. While I was at college,

university in the UK, I played D-Line and the United States. I played D-Line and linebacker for the team. You guys had a little uni, as we call it in the UK. I didn't know you guys, you guys play American football in Europe, in college? Even though it's probably the least competitive level of American football you can play anywhere in the world

and guys are nowhere near NFL size, injuries are still a huge problem. After I got a pick, I got tackled by one of my own linemen, and I fractured my kneecap and completely tore my MCO. This took me out about a year to recover from and then I re-injured it when I came back for my final year. Yet NFL guys will have similar injuries and recover in half the time. Is it purely that NFL guys have insane genetics which allow them to recover? Or is it because the top level medical treatment they receive?

Would love to hear your thoughts. Well, I would say genetically, pro athletes are the cream of the crop. right in terms of athletic jeans. So I've always been blown away by guys in college basketball and definitely the NBA that have these ankle sprains where it looks like it blow out their ankle. I mean, LeBron's king of this and then we'll just come back. So their body can contort in levels in ways that 99% of humans cannot. By far, their medical treatment.

When I hear of friends that tore an Achilles scheme, or tore their ACL playing pick up soft ball or pick up basketball or whatever they go to treatment like a quote unquote rehab maybe once or twice a week I remember my dad

tore his Patel attendant when I was like I was probably 13, 14 years old and I remember he like his, he'd go to rehab a couple times a week. I mean, it was bad. And this was, you know, mid-90s, the recovery on bad knee injuries, and this guy's just, you know, my dad was a farmer. He used to, like, play a little golf and tennis, you know, in his older age. But after this happened, he kind of set him back. And he definitely was never the same. And as he got older,

him, his knee was really bad. He probably needed a knee replacement. But, like, I remember him going to just being a kid, and he'd, like, take me to practice or whatever. I just drive around with him and he'd go to do the rehab and I remember going with him a couple times, but it was like once or twice a week. When you get injured in the NFL, you go to treatment and you hear coaches use that word treatment every single day, multiple times a day, and you bring it home to you. So I think the rehabilitation process of an injury of a normal human, let's just pick a number. Let's just say it's at 10. The rehabilitation process for a professional athlete

in the NFL is like 1,000 in terms of how meticulous. Now, it doesn't mean everyone follows it, but like the serious people that take their job seriously and want to get back. And sometimes younger athletes recover faster, but like an older guy who could make or break his career, I mean, probably will lose sleep over it.

I mean, look at Rogers last year for his Achilles. Like, you took it really, really seriously. If I tore my Achilles, like, I'm not getting up at 4 a.m. and, you know, middle of the night to get treatment at my house. So I think that's a huge, huge part of it. Obviously, their bodies are better. And the other thing is, if you, if you get injured, let's just say you're a 38-year-old playing

pickup hoops and you tear your Achilles or have a bad knee injury, like, what's your body type. Like, you got a couple kids, you got a dad bod. You're in decent shape. Like, when you get hurt as an NFL player, like, you do have a body of armor that you've built up training. Right? So it's like you are more physically your ability to take

you know, a hit that might have actually been way worse. Like, sometimes whenever you play that game with like your buddies, if the whole part it'd like the Red Sea, could you gain five yards? It's like, yeah, well, some people could. But what happens when Dre Greenlaw meets you in the hole?

What happens when Jalen Carter picks you up and throws you to the ground? Because when that happens to Alvin Kamara or Sequin Barclay or whoever, they just get back up. But if that happened to you or me or just normal humans, you would probably shatter bones.

So, I mean, there are probably a lot of hits these guys take that would cause injuries for people that aren't training at their level. I mean, the physicality of the NFL is, I've only been on the field of an actual Sunday game a couple times in my life. And I've spent obviously a lot of time before that at practices. I mean, seeing live drills. I was on the field in college at Fresno State, but the NFL is a different animal. And I remember thinking like this is

It's crazy more people don't get injured To be honest with the speed and violence of these guys Hey it's us to Jonas Brothers And guess what? We have some big news What's the news name? Huge news We created our own podcast Called Hey Jonas

We invented a podcast Well we didn't invent it We just contributed to it We're the first people to do podcasts Pretty yeah pretty wide range of podcasts But this one's extra special So how do we actually come up with a name Hey Jonas guys

I honestly don't remember I think it was on a call about what we should call it. Well, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band before Jonas Brothers. This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast, for people could call in and say, hey, Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast.

But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform?

We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Jacob Kingston grew up in an isolated polygamist sect. We were God's chosen, kingdom on earth. He felt destined for greatness. So when a swaggering Armenian businessman catapults Jacob into an extraordinary world, he doesn't look back. Ferraris and Lamborghinis, private jets, meeting the president of Turkey.

I'm Michelle McPhee, and this is one of the most shocking criminal conspiracies I've ever come across. When Jacob met Levin this went to a billion dollar fraud. But with two kings from entirely different worlds, just how long can their empire survive? The largest tax investigation in American history. You need to tell me what you know. Is somebody coming after me? Jacob told Levan, you're ruining my life. Listen to Kingdom of Fraud on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves.

Their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. SportsLice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to SportsSlice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slices Life 12 in the TikTok podcast. network on TikTok.

Do you see SpyTech and Carol going gente since Carol loves running backs? I prefer Will Campbell or defensive line. Like I said, someone hit me up recently because not critical, but I'm just acknowledging he's 5 foot 8.

So how often does a 5 foot 8 player go in the top 10? And someone said, well, there was once a guy that people questioned his body and it turned out he was a of Famer,

and it was Derek Henry. Was he too tall? I said, well, uh, I think teams would rather lean

is the guy too big than too small. Now, I do think Derek Henry was a fair comparison, or excuse me, a fair,

um, like the scouting community because he was so tall and upright and he played at such a power program, it was a very unique evaluation. Right?

I don't think Gentie is that complicated. He's a really good player. But he did play at a smaller school, and he is small. So I do think there are just questions. There are questions with basically like every prospect ever. If I was the Raiders, I 100% would not pick him. Because I would just use my second or third round pick on a running back.

I would pick the best player on the board, whether that's Mason Graham, whether that's whoever that is. Assuming that some of the, you know, Travis Hunter's out the board, a dual car. barters off the board. The Rams running back has been third and rushing behind only Sequin and Derek Henry. He seems to have a fumbling issue.

Do you think the Rams should entertain moving on from him? Seeing as they seem to be going all in, some of you younger folk won't remember this, but there was once a running back with the New York Giants named Tiki Barber. And he had a fumbling problem.

And I forget exactly what they did. Older Giants fans would know this, but they like, emphasized it hardcore and he felt like he turned it around and he stopped fumbling as much. And I think that it is a teachable, unless he lacks grip pressure that you can do some sort of measuring, use some device to measure that he'll never be able to hold on to the ball at whatever the average level is to sustain decent ball security. I do think it's a teachable thing. I would just have them, you know, in some of, it's not the Jugs machine,

but it's that device where the things like hit bounce off you. I would constantly be hitting it. Anyone that watch the program, you know, you can basically just, you carry football everywhere you go. You know, obviously the program, he carried it to class, but there's a famous scene where they hit it out

when he's falling asleep in the lecture hall, which is a great scene. and then they're all falling down, the lecture hall stairs, and then somehow he ends up under the table where the professor is, and he comes out with the ball. But I would not get rid of Kirwin Williams, just because I would coach it up. Why am I paying Sean McVeigh, $20 million in his assistance,

seven figures, his coordinator's a lot of money. Let's coach these guys up, baby. With the Cooper Cup situation, they couldn't restructure his contract and just let him get some, and let him get some money back, sometimes human beings want out of business with whoever they're in business with.

Why do people break up? They didn't want to be in the Cooper Cup business anymore. Obviously, the money factored in, but they just were over it. They were over depending on an older player who was breaking down. Basically, I think the easiest way to look at it is they looked at them like a stock

and they just went, we're selling our stock, we're selling our shares. We're out. Obviously there's a human element to this. They like the guy. Clearly he meant a lot to them turning around the franchise when Sean got there.

Didn't he win the Super Bowl MVP? High level guy in his peak was incredibly productive. Won the Triple Crown. But sometimes you have to make decisions where you go, we're just out. We're just out. Would they have

him back for $5 million, probably, but we just saw like he got more than that. So you just, it's a tough part of the business. You know, it's weird. It became so emotional, but Andy Reid won a ton of Super Bowls with Joe Tooney. Joe Tooney has been one of the more consistent players in the NFL. And they just traded them. And no one said anything. And then Andy Reid comes out and been like, this sucks.

We didn't want to do this, but we got a cap. the shitty part about the business. And it doesn't become... One thing with McVeigh, which, listen, I appreciate it, it becomes, and he's so emotional and the Rams, he's such good friends

with media people, Mike Silver, and Schreger, and they're all talking. It becomes like this big hooplau. It's like, yeah, they just fucking cut him. They didn't want him on a team. Andy Reid's been doing it for 25 years, and we don't make that big a deal with these things. It's like, yeah, we just couldn't pay him anymore.

I love the guy. Sean McVeigh can do. just never do that. Like love the guy who's not paying him anymore. Becomes like, well, this and that. It's the NFL. It happens all the time. Eagles just won a Super Bowl. Darius Slays are starting corner. They're like, yeah, we're out. Been married myself

for 15 years, and it's been great. Congrats on the wedding. When an NFL player retires at the end of a season, with years remaining and guaranteed money on his contract, what happens to that money? Does he still get paid? Does that money still count against the team's

salary cap in the next season. Just curious how it works and how GMs might manage that situation. Well, if the money's already been paid out, remember Tony Romo, when he had the back injury, then he ended up retiring, his contract was still on the books for the Dallas Cowboys the following season because it's like a trade or cutting a player, all the money that you would owe them accelerates. Mike Brown's like, well, you do contracts like us, you don't have to worry about it. but Andrew Luck is a good example.

Retires out of the blue. The Colts could have asked for money back from the signing bonus and I think could have manipulated the salary cap a little bit with getting money back, but they let them keep. I forget the number. It was like $20 million. And they just, they took a salary cap, dead money hit. So just because you retire, Drew Brie, same thing.

Doesn't mean the money just goes away. It is the equivalent. have set up their contract. If a guy retires and he's just like a free agent, you know, and his contract could just run out and then it had all been accounted for in the contract or the cap,

no issue. But I think it happens a lot where a guy retires and his, that happened to Brady. Brady's impact was still on the books. So, yeah, it just gets accelerated like cutting a player or trading a player.

Question for the bag. If you were a coordinator in the NFL, which side of the ball would you coach? Let me say this Any coaches listening to this What they do and their knowledge of football I could never do Never thought I could

Never desired to But In a lot of respect For the effort, the hours And just the intensity of that profession It is hard At least for the people that are solid and good at it A lot of people faking their way through

Making a lot of money stealing But if I was coaching inside of the ball 100% be offense. To be a defensive coach, I think you've got to be like if life would have gone a different path, like you could have been like a UFC fighter.

You know, you could have been like a bouncer at a bar. You could have been something that just violence ensues. Offense is a little more there's a little more art to it.

It's a little chiller, I think. Maybe not the, The line of scrimmage, the offensive lines, offensive line coaches, but I think there's more of an artistic side to the offense. It's just a different, different vibe. You go into the defense, Google, if you forgot about this,

kill the head, the body will die. That one pretty viral, and obviously the Saints got in big trouble, but how do you think, what do you think these guys talk about in these meetings and defensive meetings? It's not usually the way offensive meetings goes as much. Not saying that they're not crazy guys on office.

offensive side of the ball as well. But my personality, I'm just not angry enough. And I'm not violent, crazy enough. Like, to be a great, like, Vic Fangio, like, he's just an angry, old school SOB. Just belongs on defense. You know, Jim Johnson was Dick Leboe. Like, you've got to be, Monty Kiffin.

Like, you've got to be fucking nuts on that side of the ball. Offense is a little more like drawn plays and scoring touchdowns and high-fiving. I always gravitated more toward the offense, though I probably like watching defense more. Just listen to the last podcast. How important are tangible intangibles like leadership mentality and work ethic in evaluating players, particularly when stats might not tell the full story?

I think it makes or breaks guys in the draft. All the stuff that you cannot measure. How much you like football, how hard you study football, how tough you are, how smart you are. And when I say smart, I don't mean like academically how good of grades you have. Your football IQ is really high. I would say people do not fail in the NFL that meet the physical requirements that have a high football IQ and are tough.

Lazy people make it. But if your football IQ is high and your talent is high, like you can make it. it's really hard. I remember Jim Washburn taught me this. He's like, you can be lazy, you can be dumb, but if you're both, we got no shot. So I just think, no matter what you do, certain positions factor in,

like it's impossible to play middle linebacker if you don't know what's going on. It's impossible to play quarterback if you don't know what's going on. Safety. There are some positions you don't need to be like brilliant football IQ, like a guard. But you cannot excel a guard

assuming that you have the proper strength, athleticism, arm length, all that stuff, if you're soft. Like, you just, you have no shot. You will get fucking ruined. And soft, there's a big difference, like soft in society and like football soft. Like, you could be like tougher than most people,

but if you're like not, like, your toughness, I think it's borderline impossible to not be like a nine out of ten. You don't have to be that at a one. wide receiver. So every position's a little different, I guess, the more I think about it. But the intangible stuff's really, really important. Question for the mailbag. When looking at running backs available in this year's draft, what's the difference in the value you see with the top five prospects? I want the bears to take

a back, but in the second or third round. Is Genti really that much better than the prospects like Caleb Johnson or Hampton? I would say over the next month, I'm going to look a little into that. I've watched some cut ups on Hampton. He's clearly really good. He's the North Carolina running back. Ohio State's running back is really, really good. I think a lot of people would say, like, the dude from

Iowa. There are a lot of guys that you're just going to be able to get a pick like 60 or 70 or 80. They are going to start in the NFL. I just think you look at it historically. You know, Gentie, I don't think he can be viewed as the same level prospect of some guys got drafted really high recently

at 5-8 and coming from Boise state. You know, Bejohn Robinson, Sequin, Barclay, or Christian McCaffrey. Let's use those three guys as an example. If you were the Bears, or even the Raiders, and you told me that Raiders took Seyquan Barclay, or Bejan Robinson, or Christian McCaffrey. I'd be like, I get it.

Wouldn't love it, but I get it. This guy is not on that tier. And it feels like I'm hating on the guy. I fucking love the player. I just don't think you can take them really high. And what are the Bears drafting? 10. I do not think you can do that. And I don't think they will. I really don't. If I had to guess right now

March 23rd, things can change. I would guess he goes after pick 15. Maybe I'm wrong. But I would guess when the dust settles, I have a hard time seeing someone pull the trigger on a 5-8 running back in the top 15. Every year before the start of the season,

it seems like a majority of the media covering the NFL picks the Raiders to be the worst team in the AFC West. The Chiefs obviously rule the division, but since 15, the Raiders are 500, 10 and 10. Against the Chargers and the Broncos, they're 13 and 7. The criticism we receive is well-deserved. But why do we seem to take more shit than the other teams when they haven't done any better than us? With Fitech and Carroll in the building, proven coordinators in Chip

Kelly and Patrick Graham and Tom Brady now having skin in the game, who's to say that Vegas doesn't have as good, if not better, shot at getting closer to Kansas City than Denver and LA. Well, that's fair like Brandon Staley era and some of the previous eras with Denver that I think there were people arguing that the Raiders were better than people thought, you know, going into seasons. I think now it's pretty hard. Listen, Pete Carroll's resume speaks for herself. At 73, he's going all in on Gino Smith against Harbaugh and Herbert, which are better. And we're just a fifth seed in the in the AFC. They were the fifth seed.

And the Broncos who now have Sean Payton and a quarterback. So I think that's, that factors in now. I hear if you want to argue, like when some of the previous coaches were running the Broncos, like the Vic Fangio era, Sean Payton and Jim Harbaugh, the Raiders team just isn't that good. Like those teams were playoff teams last year. I just think Gino Tough spot

But I hear you Like I actually think you guys got dramatically more I don't think anyone's kicking the Raiders Like they were four or five years ago I actually think they're talked about pretty highly Myself included Like I know SpyTech a little bit Stud

I've watched Pete Carroll's career for 20 plus years Like no one's acting Tom Brady's best football player of all time Clearly he's a high level guy I think most people go yeah, the Raiders feel a little more normal now. But they felt like that at different times. Mark Davis still owns a team.

And shit just gets weird there, a lot. You can say the same thing with the Chargers, and it usually does. And then Jim Harbaugh comes in. And then just all Jim Harbaugh does is ever, he just wins. Chargers year one, fifth seat. Boom, just like that. Question for the bag. You know Veach and Andy,

they've invested multiple picks on the tackle position and flamed out every time. Why do teams struggle to evaluate the position? I'm going to feel like a homer here, even though I bet against the Chiefs. I think like three of the last four or five big games bet against them. AFC and the Super Bowl with the Ravens and the Niners and the Bills this year. So I probably need to stop betting against, I don't know, guy who's a pretty good coach, Andy Reed, and Brett Veach, pretty good GM and a team that just wins a lot. so I apologize to a Chief's Kingdom

for constantly betting against them and just losing money because they always win. Here's the thing with the Chiefs. They draft at the end of the first round and they have not been flushed with Cap Space. And even if they were like, who are you signing?

Like what are the... I just don't know what they're supposed to do. Like it is very, very difficult to find a starting left tackle at pick 32 or pick 64. It's just, that's usually not where these guys are going. Look around the league. Tristan

Worf's. I go back to these guys because they're the two best players when healthy at their position like Trent Williams, Lane Johnson. Most high level tackles go really, really high in the draft. Tyrone Smith forever. You have some outliers. Yeah,

Jordan Milada from Australia, who never played football in his life. Right? I mean, I remember the 49ers Forever Joe Staley was an incredible pick. And he was picked like 27, I think. But he was like a former, he was kind of like JJ Watt of tackles. He was picked 28.

That's like unheard of. To find a guy that's like going to Pro Bowls that pick 28. Usually you got to draft him pretty high. So I just think it's difficult. They're in a tough spot. They could have traded for Laramie Tunzel. The Texans would have wanted their first round pick.

It's like, yeah. Wait, why are you trading this guy? Why, why, wait, we'll give our first round pick for a player, but you're trading your left tackle when your old line sucks. I do get, like Washington, it's like, we'll give you a third now, second later, and I was hard, but it's like, hey, yeah, we want your first round pick. That's the only way we'll trade this player to you. Like, uh, it feels a little weird.

We're desperate here. Kind of. I mean, we're just in the Super Bowl. But it's like, you're going to make us trade a first round pick? Because the Texans could not have done that deal. with the Chiefs, right that they did in Washington. I think it's fair to assume that they wanted their first round pick.

If you're the Chiefs, you're like, we can do our second, our first for a guy, you're trading? Who's going to want $30 million a year? And like, again, why are you trading them? A couple days after D.K. was traded to the Steelers, I read a headline along the lines of Pickens was not among the players to welcome D.K. at the Steelers' facility. A day later,

another article saying, George Pickens traded rumors are picking up. Mike, questions, is if this is true, what would you trade for? I'm probably the wrong guy to ask because he was a second round pick. So 22, 23, 24. He's in a contract year. I'm not in the business of George Pickens. Now, clearly there are teams desperate enough.

And for the right price, I would definitely dabble. But, like, I couldn't trade anything of value. Zero chance. Like there's a reason a guy that was that talented was pick 52nd overall. Now you watch him, he's got a lot of talent,

but when the Steelers can't handle a wide receiver, pretty glaring sign. And I think a lot of people go, well, you add DK to George Pickens? It's probably George Pickens last season on the Pittsburgh Steelers,

unless he becomes a dramatically different human being. Look at the last couple guys that they were like, eh, we're not that into. Case Claypool. Yeah, we're kind of out. Antonio Brown, who had like the greatest six-year stretch of all time. Like, yeah, we're out.

George Pickens, trade block. I'm not, like, there's certain people I'm just not doing business with. Like, Howie Roseman calls me, it's like, yeah, Howie, I'm not doing that trade. Billy Bean forever in baseball. Billy, I'm not that interested in. Billy, wait, you don't want our number one prospect? You want the seventh, ninth, and 15th guy, and then two of the three become all-stars?

Like, yeah, I probably shouldn't trade the guy Billy wants. and that's how I feel about George Bickens. I'm just, like there are certain people in a draft, and I think the good teams do this, there are players. You're like, this guy is going to be in the NFL. More likely, he's going to be a good player. I don't want him on our team.

And usually that revolves around off the field, intangible, you know, stuff you can't quantify. The character or personality, like, I don't want to be in business with him. Belichick made a long, long standing of doing that. now sometimes he did some weird draft picks because like who did you just take in the second round like well his characters through the roof

it's like Bill like guys are fucking undrafted free agent so there's a balance but there are people on every team's draft board any team worth their salt they're like listen clearly this guy's an NFL player this guy could make a pro bowl but we're not in the business of these type guys and I think the good teams are like not now the Steelers

they've always kind of like done a good job of reclamation project sometimes it works. I think the problem is sometimes it's like a stock you ever like strike gold and you like 10 X your money you kind of chase that forever.

Listen I'm guilty of it and I've never had a 10x stock but the moment you hit you know two or three acts you're like damn I want to do that again. It's like no just invest in Costco just buy some apple buy something that you know is going to work it's like no I'm flinging for the fences

then all of a sudden it goes the other way. I think Dave's done that sometimes. But that's kind of why they've maintained because their talent is always better than where they're drafting because they will take flyers. And I think the teams that stay away from that, like the Buffalo Bills,

you think Brandon Bean and Sean McDermott would mess with George Pickens? No chance. None. but like unless he Newsom might have Andy Reid might but again like they'll pivot fast and it's the difference is if I buy George Pickens from you for a fourth round pick I'm not invested anymore

so it's like if he starts acting weird I can just cut him like I'm out and I think it's really risky for the bad teams like Carolina you know think of some of the bad teams that could use his talent you want to risk this because George Pickens walks in like he's Randy freaking Moss

he thinks he's the best player in your team immediately I would love to have a cocktail with like T.J. And Minka and Cam. Nick, what do you think of this, dude? Really? No, really. Like, what do you think of this guy? Probably give you everything you need to know why you should not trade for him. The volume. Hey guys, it's us. The Jonas Brothers. I'm Joe.

I'm Kevin. And I'm Nick. And guess what? We created our own podcast called, Hey, Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. First people to do podcasts. We get to ask other people questions because we're sick and tired of being asked questions. Well, sick and tired is a strong way to put it, but, you know, tired and sick.

Tired and sick. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smigel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's,

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