The Herd with Colin Cowherd - 3 & Out - Holdouts in SF, What's going on with Watson, Pittsburgh is getting the draft

Episode Date: May 23, 2024

John dives into the issues surrounding the 49ers and how the holdout and contract situations will likely play out, how the Browns are telling the media one thing and what they are seeing is something completely different when it comes to Deshaun Watson, will Matt Stafford get a new contract, and the NFL giving Pittsburgh the draft next year. Lastly, John does an early Fugazi Friday segment. Later, John answers your questions on this episode's mailbag segment 6:14 - Holdouts in SF 16:02 - Watson isn't practicing 17:29 - Matt Stafford's contract 25:40 - Pittsburgh gets the draft 29:49 - Fugazi Friday 33:37 - Mailbag Follow John on Twitter, Instagram and YouTube for the latest. Check out Gametime - the fastest growing ticketing app in the US, and the official ticketing app of 3 & Out and GoLow -  for tickets to all of your favorite NFL, NBA, NHL, NCAA teams. Concert and comedy show tickets, too. Go to Gametime now to create an account, download the app and use code JOHN for $20 off your first purchase. #Volume #HerdSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter.

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I was harmed. You just understood. That's how personal it got. Wow. Then after that game seven, Mark keep coming to him. He's like, you know I love you, dog. You know, it's all love. This was just playoffs. This was just basketball. Listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Joey Dardano, and on my new podcast, Hope from a Hypocrite, I'll be changing lives, helping people in need with thoughtful solutions. Sike, I'm a comedian. I'm not qualified to give good advice. Join me and my comedian friends as we riff, rant, recommend some of the most legally dubious advice known to me.

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Bonus bets expire 168 hours after issuance. See dkng.com slash B-Ball for eligibility and deposit restrictions, terms, and responsible gaming resources. What is going on, my people? How are we doing? It is Wednesday, May 22nd, and this is going to be the last part of the week. So we had a golf podcast reacting to Xander and Sheffer.

And then we had three straight football podcasts, but we're going to take a little time and enjoy the long weekend. So we will be back next Tuesday. And I had on the general manager of Florida State, Derek Ray, who I worked with a long time ago. He's a young buck. He's younger than me at Fresno State. So talking to him about Florida State,

all their draft picks, Mike Norvell, the business, the changing landscape. So that will be on Tuesday, but this will be the last show of the week. I kind of went rapid fire, just fire through some different topics, as well as a Middilkoff mailbag. So the Middilkoff mailbag, ad John Middilkoff firing those DMs. I threw on a little Fugazi Friday, something I noticed the other day when I was cleaning my pool. So just a little Fugazi Friday. I know it's not Friday, but I saw this, and I made a change in my pool operation.

So we'll dive into that as well. And yeah, other than that, we've had a lot of content out this week. Subscribe to Rene Out Podcast, Apple, Spotify, wherever. YouTube, we have every thing we do is up there. And I got some new equipment, so I'm going to start shooting some golf stuff, is the game plan here in the near future. Got some pretty good cameras and we'll start messing with that, put it up on the YouTube channel as well. So try to expand the biz a little. And yeah, enjoy Memorial Day and let's talk a little football.

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a place I've been many a time to watch the 49ers practice. And one thing I know pretty well when it comes to the 49ers, and no parag a little bit, the guy that manages the money, have a pretty good sense of the way John and Kyle operate. They drive a hard bargain. They are usually not the team to just hand out the money March 15th with their own guys. When they have a high-price player, unless you're willing to essentially give a bargain, it's going to be a knock-down drag-out.

Now, that doesn't mean you're not going to get paid. Nick Bosa got a historic amount of money, but it went right up until the regular season started. Debo Samuel had to do a hold-in. He had literally just carried the team to the playoffs, took him to the NFC championship game, and it was difficult. Trent Williams almost went to the Kansas City Chiefs. Honestly, not sure where the 49ers would be if that would have happened.

All-time sliding doors moment in the NFL, like the Chiefs, really needed Trent Williams. But that was tough. There was a sleepless night or two leading into opening. a free agency that he was going to go somewhere else. And they get a number and they stay and stand, you know, I would say pretty confidently behind it. They don't play scared in these situations. And some teams are a little more aggressive because they go, well, the future cap,

it's not even being frugal because they'll end up giving the money, but it's not easy to get it. You got to work. Your agent earns that couple percent that he's making off the deal. It's going to happen next year with Brock Purdy, even if he fucking won. wins the MVP. I'm telling you, I've seen them operate now for a long, long time. And this Brandon IU contract is no different. He is not at practice. Like the Justin Jefferson thing's pretty easy. He wants a historic amount of money, probably not budging. They know they need him. He's the best player on the team. It's just, you're talking a lot of money. The IUC thing is a difficult

conversation. This is an offense that is never going to have a hundred catch guy. This is an offense that while he's very good, he is a winning player at the highest level, on his best season is going to catch 85 balls. So he's, I'm sure, asking for $28 to $30 million, and that's a tough spot for them to beat. Given his comps, no one producing at that level gets paid that. But he goes, I am this good of a player. Look at my yardage.

Look at my PFF grades. Look at how much you value me. And this thing's going to be a knockdown dragout. I expect this thing. I would be stunned if this doesn't go into training camp. And I would expect this to go well through training camp. Now, from just a pure football standpoint, like, I try to avoid this at all costs when I'm a team trying to win the Super Bowl.

Like, last year, Nick Bosa started really slow. Why? Because he hadn't been practicing. I don't care how high character, how hard you work, how much you love football. And I would put Bosa under that category because he came back just. just jacked. But it's not the same as being on the field going up against Trent Williams every day. Just like running routes next to Debo Samuel getting the ball thrown to you from Brock Purdy is not the same as running around with some former college quarterback throwing you the

pill at some high school football field. So I understand the way the Niners operate like this and it's been very successful to them and the results speak for themselves. But this, this situation is just they're not going to trade them because you wouldn't trade them next year for a future pick. You need him now. But I expect this thing to drag out because that's what history would show me when it comes to these situations. The other thing is McCaffrey, now a lot of their guys, you know, Fred Warner on the sideline, George Kittle on the sideline, Trent Williams never shows up to this, don't blame him. Bosa did, and usually he stays and works in Florida. But it's like, Once I gave you $125 million and make you the highest paid non-quarterback in the NFL,

just come around, buddy. And he did. And Debo, probably scared he was going to get traded, comes back, slim down, new number. Christian McCaffrey wasn't there. Now, if you follow him on the old Instagram, he's going to get married in the near future to Olivia. And good-looking family. Not going to lie. Both those two, really.

and my first thought was, I wonder if he wants a little more money. Now, Mike Floreo reported, according to sources, this has nothing to do with the contract. But when you look at his contract, he makes under $12 million this year from the 49ers. His guaranteed money from that massive deal

that he signed with the Carolina Panthers, which was ahead of its time, is gone. Now, if it's not, obviously just personal, he's working out on his own. This is voluntary. If I am Christian McCaffrey, I go, listen, I know running backs have struggled to get some money in recent years. And while wages are going up around the country and definitely in the NFL, our wages have stagnated. And I was the first of my kind around $15,000,000-ish million dollars.

I was the highest paid running back in the league on a per year basis, actually being at $16 million. You guys had nothing to do with that. and what I've produced since I've been here speaks for itself. I'm not only one of the best players on this team. Bosa makes 30 plus. Trent makes 20 and is underpaid. And me, like, listen, I'm not asking for 30, but I don't think it would be crazy if Christians like,

hey, can we up this number a little bit? Can we just add some guaranteed money and yearly number? I'm a $20 million player easy when you factor in. My importance to the team, my impact on the league, the way I play, I catch the ball and run the ball. I'm a dominant player. And I'm 26, 27 years old. Like, I'm not 32.

And since I've been around you, like, durability has not been an issue. I have been one of the best trades this organization has ever made. Steve Young, probably number one, when you trade like a fourth round pick and some money for Steve Young. But in recent memory, I would say Christian McCaffrey is pretty high. So I don't think it's crazy whenever he does return. be like, hey guys, we need to kind of get this contract right. And this is where these elite players have some juice, like Cam Hayward under contract. Like, guys, I'm the team captain.

Right. Zach Martin last year. Like, hey, guys, I'm making 14. I know I've signed a previous deal. But look at the landscape now. It's easy to be like, hey, for normal people. Shit, you're making 120 grand. Well, yeah, that was sweet a couple years ago.

Now the average person in my positions making 200. harder for you to stomach, or if you're making $60,000, and you've been making that for a couple years, and then you look around every other person, your position is now making $95? We're all human beings. Money's all relative. So yeah, $11.8 million is a shit ton of money, and McCaffrey has done very well for himself. But what would the 49ers pay if they had to keep them? I'll promise you this, Kyle Shanahan would pay Christian McCaffrey before Brandon Ayuk, and they would gladly give him $20 million.

Now we can argue, given a running back, a third contract. I think he's pretty unique because of his ability as a wide receiver. Like on any given season, if you really wanted, he could catch 80, 90 balls, no problem. The durability thing definitely scares me. Not even because of him. I think he's definitely changed his body over the last couple of years after he had the injury issues in Carolina. It's more the coach. It's like, hey, Kyle, you're up 15 points in the fourth quarter.

Let's just stop giving these inside runs to, Christian McCaffrey for three yards and having two defensive linemen land on him. Like, this isn't 1987, but Kyle's like, give it to him again, Purdy! It's like, guys, can we use the backup running back to just take six, seven carries in the second half? But that's not really how Kyle's operate. He's ran into the ground. And don't totally blame him because he's so good, but when you got a lead in some of these games, like, give him a breather. And last but not least on the Niners, the last couple years, they've had a shit show a quarterback, right?

A couple years ago, they brought Jimmy Garoppel as a backup. Trey Lance was the starter, even though he wasn't even the best quarterback on the team, but they had to do it because they invested everything into him. Then he got hurt, and then that situation ended the season with Purdy in. Well, then Purdy gets injured, and last year, so much talk around the Niners was like, is Purdy really, even if he comes back healthy, deserve the job? Shouldn't this be an open competition? It's like, guys, Trey's not even going to beat out Sam Donald.

The moment they signed Sam Donald, he was the backup. but there were questions whether Purdy's health, how his return would be from the elbow, which is fair. Like anytime this Joe Burrow conversation, it's like, what's it going to look like? What's the first time you get injured? And now it's like just Brock Purdy's a starting quarterback

and he's completely healthy. And he just gets to take all the reps. Like that's the healthiest spot to be in as a team. Obviously he's a young player. He needs to continue to improve. But you look around the league, the best teams with established quarterbacks. It's just, it's very quiet at that position. Like Patrick Mahomes, Josh Allen,

Justin Herbert, Jalen Hertz, Lamar Jackson, right, Dak Prescott, whoever just get the reps in practice. They're just the starting quarterback. And that's where the 49ers are for the first time in a long time. Speaking of quarterbacks, like I said, the media gets one day a week. So you get three practices, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, and the team gets to choose like, oh, Tuesday's open. Right? A lot of teams did Tuesdays open. Some teams do Wednesdays open. And you can manipulate it a little bit because you don't allow the onlookers to see certain players. And yesterday, according to Kevin Stefanski, Deshaun Watson practice, look normal.

Coming back from this shoulder injury. And then today, when the media was there, so people are like, what's he going to look like? He's on the side. And it's just something to keep an eye on. Something to keep it. It's easy to be like, yeah, look really good. That meal I made would have been like Emerald-Lagasy. It's like, well, can you cook it for me?

You know, it's just, I'm telling you, people think I'm a Browns hater. I'm not. I like Kevin Stavansky. I think their team has a lot of high-end guys that I'd fucking won on my squad every day of the week. But to say that this situation, since the moment this guy got here, on and off the field hasn't been one of the more bizarre things we've ever seen, it's just constantly weird.

It really is. It went from uncomfortable to just being bad football It's just now he's legitimately hurt Even though they say he's completely healthy Maybe there's easing them back in Well I don't think they eased them back in on the day When no one could watch randomly Just something to keep an eye on

Part of the Seattle scheme Obviously it's changed over the years But one reason when Richard Sherman Was in the peak of his powers And he was He'd tell you he was the best corner you know, Revis in his prime, but they kind of overlapped at the end and Sherman got the bill. Sherman didn't move, right? He stayed on the one side of the field because the way they run their zone defense concepts,

you don't have a guy going back and forth like playing man-to-man defense 24-7, 365, like you could do with Deion, like you could do with Dorel Revis. And it was just never part of the scheme. And Robert Sala kind of alluded to the other day of like, like, yeah, we might try to have Soss Gardner mirror the top guys in the league that we play. And when we're playing whoever, who is a pro-ball, all-pro-level wide receiver, sauce is going to check them all game. Which sounds great in theory, but now mirroring it to the scheme,

like there are certain defensive principles. The reason you don't do that is the roles and the assignments for all your guys and the secondary and your linebackers, they all have eight. areas. So it'll be very interesting if they try to do a dramatic change. Not part of football in general. I don't care what level is evolving. But that's something to keep an eye on. The Stafford contract situation is kind of brewing. McVeigh refused to talk about it, so we're going to keep this in-house. My take on this is pretty simple. They gave him a ton of money a couple years ago. Now his yearly contract, a lot like Christian McCaffrey, looks a lot lower than these

other guys. He's scheduled to make $31 million this year, I think 32 next year. His cap hits are really, really high. I think the hard part about it, and down the stretch, I looked at his numbers a day. After, or right before Thanksgiving, I guess Thanksgiving is like the 27, 26th, maybe 25th, whatever dates Thanksgiving is, whatever the game they played that weekend up until the playoff game, he threw 17 touchdowns and one interception. He was easily one of the best players in the league. And when Matt Stafford is on, he's as good as anybody. Like, he can go toe to toe to toe with Mahomes, Josh Allen Lamar, whoever. He did go toe to toe to toe with Lamar.

They almost won that game if their special teams didn't blow. So I get it from his standpoint on the simple fact of like, I don't make enough. I think the hard part is like, bro, we just broke you off with a ton of guaranteed money and have paid you an astronomical amount. It's a difficult situation. It really is. You talk about a guy in his mid-30s. He's not as old as you. think because he came into the league really young?

Like for a guy that's been in a league that long, he should be like 39, but I'm pretty sure he came in the league at 20 years old, but he has a lot of mileage, a lot of wear and tear, because for years he got the crap beat out of him in Detroit, obviously, and then even in L.A., he's banged up a couple years ago. Tough situation. It really is. Now, Stafford's not like he's holding out or anything.

He's there, but I think this is a story that's kind of brewing under the surface with the Rams, and I understand them kind of being like, yeah, just kind of play this out. Like McCaffrey goes, you didn't give me this money. This contract, you inherited it. Time for you guys to take care of me what I'm doing for you. Where Stafford is like, we just took care of you after we won the Super Bowl,

threw the $160 million at you. Not our fault that in two years it looks all out of whack. It's kind of crazy that within a couple years, Jared Goff got more than Matt Stafford. Would not have had that on my bingo card the moment the trade happened. Listen, the Rams are going to win a Super Bowl with Stafford. He's going to be really good. McVeigh's going to love him.

But also in like a couple years, the lions are going to be sweet. Doff's going to resurrect his career. And the contract he gets is actually going to be more than the one Stafford gets. Never know. NFL's wild. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. call it grotesque, others say it's

unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to

Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, it's Edwin Castro, also known as Castro 1021. And I'm Konki, his best friend, and business manager. And we've got a new show called The 1021 podcast. I'm taking you behind the scenes on how I became one of Twitch's most popular streamers.

We also love sports. And with the World Cup right around the corner, we'll be breaking down the biggest storylines ahead of the big tournament here in the USA. Listen to the 1021 podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Jordan Arano. You might know me as that loud guy who yells out, Help on the internet. Help!

Somebody! Please! But there's so much more to me than that. I'm an actor. I'm a comedian. And recently, I've become quite the helper myself. And on my new podcast, Hope I'm a Hypocrite. I'll be changing lives,

helping people in need with my sage advice and thoughtful solutions. Sike! I'm a comedian. I'm not qualified to give good advice. Join me and my comedian friends as we riff rant and recommend some of the most legally dubious advice known to man. If I'm calling you, even if you're on your phone, let it ring

twice. One ring is too scary. Cream a chicken suit. Hey, cream a chicken suit. This is Help from a Hypocrite, the worst advice from the dumbest people you know. Listen to Help from Hypocrite as part of the Mike Coutura Podcast Network available on the IHart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcasts. I love it when you draft a guy really high, and I understand. why these stories happen in OTAs in training camp, so-and-so is running with the ones. And I definitely think it's fair if it's a third-day pick, even a third-rounder, like, hey, this guy is the starting corner, or this guy's the starting defensive end,

or this guy's the starting guard. Like, it's, damn, they got a guy running with the ones that they drafted, pick 140. The Chargers drafted Ladd-McConkey in the top 40. He was their second round pick, and because they were crappy, they drafted really high in the second round. So the story comes out, he's running with the ones.

Well, yeah, they drafted him to run with the ones. They got rid of Keenan Allen and Mike Williams. So whoever they drafted at wide receiver in the first three rounds, let alone with their second round pick, is going to be a starter. So it's not,

I understand why people put it out there, but like, yeah, the sky is blue. Ice is cold. Ladd-McConkie is a starting wide receiver. for the Chargers. A couple other just NFL things. The Pittsburgh will host the draft. And let's face it. This move by the league, and I loved, it's one of the only times I've ever been in New York City, went to Radio City Music Hall, the 2011 draft, which was Cam Newton, Julio, A.J. Green, J.J. Watt. It was, it was badass. It was really cool environment. And it was awesome there for a long period of time.

and I thought when they moved that I'm like, ah, you should just keep it at Radio City Music Hall. I would say it's one of the smartest non-on-the-field things they've done in a long, long time. This doesn't just work. It feels dramatically bigger with the huge crowds, just the playing to the environment, all the shows around it.

It's a massive, massive hit. And I also think it's cool to be able to go to places like Pittsburgh's not getting a Super Bowl. Cleveland's not getting a Super Bowl Detroit's not getting a I guess Detroit technically could and I think they have but any of these outdoor freezing cold stadiums

you're just not getting them so you get the event and I'm not saying the draft is a Super Bowl but it's it's better than nothing and clearly in a place we saw it in Cleveland we saw in Detroit we've seen in Kansas City it's awesome now if I was a fan to go to that and sit way behind

I don't know if it would be the coolest event to be there. Maybe it would. But people clearly like it. People are clearly enjoying themselves. It looks way cooler on TV. Because let's face it, anytime you see a mass amount of people at an event, it feels bigger. And that's the one thing. The draft now, even though it's the same exact format as it's always been.

10 minutes, pick is in. Roger announces, pick is in, a trade is in. Nothing has changed except people standing there. and it's added a huge, I would just say curveball and an infusion of energy that wasn't there. And I'm sure I said this at the time

and I'm sure I would have thought this. Like, it's kind of a stupid idea. Sometimes stupid ideas are the best ones because this one has been a pretty seamless transition into just an explosion for some of these cities. And then the economic data comes out about the restaurants and the hotels, It's been a home run.

And last but not least, the NFL is sniffing around the idea of playing a football game in Australia. And when I was like 12 years old, I was in sixth grade, I went with my dad to New Zealand. He was actually already there. I flew by myself at 12 years old. Times were a little different in the 90s. Pretty easy. That would probably never happen these days. But I flew by myself to New Zealand and I was there for probably, I don't know,

even know. Ten days with them. Fly fish, went to see different sites, went on a whale tour, went to where bungee jumping originated. Place is badass. I need to get back. But the flight was very, very long. It was a long trip. And logistically, when you go to, you know, play a game in London or the UK, if you take Jacksonville or New York or Pittsburgh or New England or the Eagles, it's not that long of a flight. Given where you're going, you're talking four hours, 45 minutes to six hour flight.

Well, if Tampa plays Seattle, what do you think that flight is? So it's very similar to some of the longer NFL flights. If you go to Australia, like, that's pretty crazy.

Now, I do think it would be really cool and it makes a lot of sense in theory to play a game in Australia. I think it would be, pop. Those people love sports, even though NFL football is clearly not top on the list of the sports they support, it would be a home run. It would 100% work. But I know this. All 32 teams would not want that trip because of the amount of time in the plane, the amount of time home, even if they

build it around a buy week or off the Thursday night game or however it's going to work, teams would want no part of that. And I, I I think if you're the road team playing in the UK, it's not even that big a deal. It really isn't. I think Australia is a different animal. I really do. Now, I haven't looked on the flight from Philly and Green Bay to Brazil, never been to Brazil, always wanted to.

It looks incredible. Rio de Janeiro. But, and that's, if I had the guess, it's probably longer than five hours. Could be wrong. Maybe it's shorter. But Australia is really, really far. So it'll be interesting to push back by some of the teams, but what we've learned over the years,

the players, the coaches, the GMs, the league office does not care at all what you think. And ultimately the owners just want to do whatever it takes to make more money and to grow the sport. So if they can find a place and they think it'll work, it'll happen. And I would imagine if it is a success, they'll do it every single year. So buckle up teams, get ready for your 15-hour flight.

Because we're not doing a podcast on Friday. I did want to do a quick Fugazi Friday. When I bought the house that I live in now, came with a pool. Because a lot of houses in Arizona come with a pool. It's 110, 115 degrees for three months of the year. It's actually been a pretty mild spring early summer. I think the hottest has been is like 94 degrees. But like most pools, you get a pool cleaner, right?

I'm not talking about the guy that comes to measure the chemicals, but the guy that owned the place before had one of those long poles with the pool sweeper on it, which I've actually gained an appreciation for just getting outside, doing a little pool sweeping, and then throwing the stuff over the fence because I kind of live behind a wash. Here's the problem. When you live in an area where there are trees and you have your own trees in the backyard and it can be kind of windy, the other day I was using that pool sweeper, and I was like, God, I've picked, up everything. I looked down and the pool was still covered with crap. It's like, this doesn't work.

So what I did, the pool sweeper is an outdated item. I went on Amazon and I ordered basically an electronic top of the pool sweeper. And it's incredible. I can control it on my phone and it picks up everything. And then if more things come, it keeps going and cleans it up. Now, I'm going to miss standing out there, maybe taking my shirt off, catching some rays and walking around the pool, putting in some air pods and just getting a little, getting a little fresh air. But it didn't work. It doesn't work because you can't keep up with the wind and the leaves. It's impossible. The wind and the leaves just keep coming.

Bugs keep hitting it. You're like, I could do this 24 hours a day and I still wouldn't be able to get. And I also think a lot of the stuff is like a couple within a foot below the water surface. So it comes up as you're doing the sweeping. these electronic sweepers. I now have an electronic pool cleaner that cleans the bottom and the walls all run by my phone and then this new one that sweeps the top.

So we all talk a lot of shit about technology. It can drive us nuts sometime. But it also has made life in the world much more efficient because some of the stuff really, really works. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games.

Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing. human potential. Either way, the podcast Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was

having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, it's Edwin Castro, also known as Castro 1021. And I'm Conky, his best friend and business manager. And we've got a new show

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Join me and my comedian friends as we riff, rant, recommend some of the most legally dubious advice known to man. If I'm calling you, even if you're on your phone, let it ring twice. One ring is too scary. Oh, cream a chicken suit. Hey, cream a chicken suit. This is Help from a Hypocrite, the worst advice from the dumbest people you know. Listen to Help from Hypocrat as part of the Mike Cultura Podcast Network available on the IHartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Okay, let's bang out some Middilcoff mailbags. at John Middokoff, Instagram, DMs, wide freaking open. Firing them, like Jacob did, get your question, answer on the show. Appreciate the kind of words. My question is about the Bengals. Beside Burroughs staying healthy, what needs to happen for the Bengals to have a deep playoff run, like 21 and 22, looking forward to hearing your opinions? Also, how do you think the AFC North is going to be?

going to end up, one through four. Who day, all day, every day, especially on Sunday. Who day think going to beat them bangles? One thing that team had, going back to the team that beat the Chiefs that was in the Super Bowl and had a lead in the Super Bowl, to the team that went toe to toe with the Chiefs

and beat the crap out of the bills, there was a toughness to your guys squad. And Luana Rumo, your defensive coordinator, has obviously been really, really good. The culture there, led by Burrow and obviously the coach, Zach Taylor. You guys got just high-level tough guys. But, you know, the run game and being,

I don't even have your depth chart up. Obviously, Joe Mixon's on the Texans now, if memory serves me correct. Joe Mixon on the Texans, does that sound right? It's hard to keep up with all the little auxiliary moves. Though, I mean, Joe Mixon, once upon a time, was a high-end player. I think there's a physicality to the run game that translates in the AFC in the playoffs.

Because you can light up the scoreboard, 35, 40 points when Burroughs Healthy would Chase and Higgins. But to me, running the ball and playing defense, now you play in arguably the most physical division. So like doing, think about doing one through four in that division right now. Well, you had three playoff teams. and the Browns won 11. The Ravens, they went 14. I'm pretty sure they won 14. They were the one seed.

The Steelers won 9 and were right there. And 9 or 10, getting my numbers mixed up. Pretty sure they were 9 and 8. And obviously you guys hit the skids a little bit with the borough injuries, but Jake Browning, Sacramento Native, who I think I forgot his name, like within the last month, I apologize to Jake. because I was actually watching some of Brian Callahan's interview with Compton and Luan.

And he was like, I don't know if I've ever seen a guy improve so much. He's like, we just signed him as a practice squad guy. Three and a half years later, he was playing pretty high-level football. And I agree because I root for Pack 12 schools when they're good. So when Jake was at Washington and Chris Peterson, the Boise State coach, I was rooting for that team. I just didn't think he was that good. But the guy that we saw last year was like a legitimate backup quarter.

back. So one thing the Bengals, even when everyone and Carson Palmer went through it, like calling them cheap, and obviously Mike Brown's not slinging money around like some of these billionaire owners, but I think they've drafted pretty well over the last 20 years. They have had a lot of good players top to bottom. And some of those Marvin Lewis teams, like if you put Joe Burrow on some of those Andy Dalton teams, I might want a couple Super Bowls. I just remember, and I I've told this story before, but being on the sideline at an Eagles game, and then when I was doing stuff with the Raiders, the size of your defensive line was huge.

You guys have always had massive defensive linemen. Your corners were sweet. I think Pac-Man was on a couple of those teams. Burfit was your linebackers have always been physical. You've always had enormous offensive linemen. Going back to Whitworth, Andre Smith. You've had good guards and centers. Your quarterback position borough's the best of the Carson,

Paul, or Andy Dalton group. But receivers have always been sweet. AJ Green, who was a monster. There was like some argument going on on the internet that A.J. Green wasn't that good. Or was overrated or underachieve. Like, hey guys, AJ Green was pretty dominant. I for, you guys have had really, really good teams. So I'd have to look at your roster in depth.

I mean, the Ravens, they're going to be depending on some young, developmental players after losing some guys in free agency. They got a new coordinator. You know where I stand on Deshaun Watson. I don't think he's very good anymore. Maybe it's the injuries. Maybe it's the masseuses. I don't know. But he has not looked right. And the Steelers, while they have a pretty solid team, they've improved their offensive line. Their quarterback positions more than a question mark. So I think to me, the goal, if you're a fan, a realistic goal goes, if Joe Burrow stays healthy, which is concerning

because that injury, and we've talked about the percentages and someone DM me, like, I am a medical professional, it's legit. It's just something to keep an eye on. If he's healthy the whole time, no big deal, but the moment you hear inflammation, he's taking a day off, it scares you. It's like Deshaun Watson taking a day off. Well, he just had major shoulder surgery.

It just keeps you nervous. If Burrow play 17 games, I think you guys have a freaking very, very good chance to win the division. which is huge in the AFC, because hosting the game, whether you're the Bills,

whether you're the Bengals, or going on the road, all these stadiums, think about, let's just pick tennis team for the seven spots. Chiefs, obviously, a playoff team, bills obviously a playoff team. Those road venues are,

I mean, the only team, I guess you guys have beaten Buffalo a Buffalo, but, or was a game in Cincinnati? I forget, because that was the DeMar Hamlin game, game, they got canceled. I think, wasn't Buffalo? It wasn't in Cincinnati. I remember, that was a Skip Bayless tweet, remember. It's like, I know a guy almost died, but what about the playoff implications? I know he's on the way to the hospital. Hopefully they can restate him. Hopefully he lives till tomorrow. But how are we going to figure out home field advantage?

That was an all-timer. Listen, guys, I'm not trying to jump the shark here. Just thinking out That game was crazy. I vividly remember sitting at the apartment I used to rent and me and Maria just like shell-shocked, making dinner. It was a quiet night, watching Buck and Aikman. Wanted to get your take on which rookie first-round quarterback has the best supporting cast, skill players day one. Going one through five because they don't think Drake May and the Patriots have a fighting chance.

I would agree. The Vikings. Jefferson, Addison, Hawkinson, Aaron Jones. Hawkinson did tear his knee. So I saw he had some quotes the other day about he's coming back. He feels good about the rehab. I don't think we can just chalk him up, lock, week one. Bears, Moore, Allen, Adunzee, D'Andre Swift.

Commanders, McLaren, Dodson, Ertz, Echler. I don't know if I'd throw Ertz in there at this point, but I hear you. Falcons, London, Mooney, Pitts, Bijon. Broncos, Sutton, Reynolds, Trotman, Javante Williams. Some of these guys are coming off injuries. I think you also, the skill positions, you also got a factor in the offensive line because the only way to throw it to guys get some protection. So the Bears' offensive line, much improved over the last 12 months.

Commanders, I'd be lying if I had a great grasp on their offensive line. The Falcons, pretty good offensive line. The Broncos, I mean, they're starting McGlinchie at right tackle. So they got, they can be a little hit or miss. Good in the run game. past game Glenshy's going to be a problem I would say

the Jefferson Addison combo and Aaron Jones that's pretty hard to beat Keenan Allen DJ Moore is pretty freaking good so I think you're probably right on I'd go Vikings, Bears I think the Falcons

Is Kyle Pitts any good Like we know he's really talented and he was a highly drafted player but this is a massive year Like who is he? Is he just one of those guys really famous from the draft status.

Was he just misused by the former coach? I don't know. Definitely a very interesting year. Obviously, you know, Terry McLaurin, Scary Terry is a baller. So Austin Echler, Echler is an incredible player for a young quarterback. I mean, it's, it's,

it'd be like having, in the passing game, Christian McCaffrey, because of his ability to catch the ball in the backfield. So to me, Echler is, an underrated name on this list. Aaron Jones went healthy is one of the best running backs in the league, and he's a good pass-catching running back. But Echler's a stud.

So I think you've got it right on. All these guys, for the most part, like you said, get some pretty legit, talented guys they get to transition right into. Pretty lucky rookies. Do you ever see Pete Carroll coaching another team? And if so, which one? I don't. we saw how difficult it was for Belichick to get a job

and Belichick is considered the best coach of his generation for sure and arguably the best coach ever right up there you know Lombardi Walsh you know Andy's now throwing his hat in the ring but and you could argue for in the peak of his powers when they were winning Super Bowls all the time people talked about like the greatest coach any sport of all time and he got one interview

last year. Let's be real about this is there's ageism, right? I mean, they're just, if both those guys were 65 years old, 100% it'd be a lock. But to me, Pete Carroll, 72, 72, 73 years old. And, you know, Pete, the teams were pretty competitive. I mean, they were right in the playoff mix last year till the end, and they made the playoffs the year before. So on wins and loss-wise, he's been much more successful in the last two years than Bill. But I do think Bill is much more likely to get a job this cycle. I would never say never. But is someone going to hire Pete Carroll?

He's not cheap either. So it's like I'm hiring a 73-year-old who is a defensive guy and his defensive stink. Say what you want about Bill? It's like, hey, you get Bill a solid quarterback. You know his defenses are going to be sweet. He's a defensive guy. He can handle the defense and he can handle the, the operation of the team.

Like, you know Pete can handle the operation of the team. He's great with players, but he's a defensive guy and his defensive suck. Where you go, Bill, listen, we've got to be careful about him picking the players. If he can inherit a quarterback, we know he can make our defense good because he's the greatest defensive coach we've ever seen.

Pete, in theory, is one of the greatest defensive coaches we've ever seen. But we've seen him in recent years, like, his defense sucks. I mean, terrible. So I think it's better for Bill. Yeah, his quarterback sucks. Well, yeah, no shit. He lost Tom Brady, his own fault.

And he chose Mac Jones, a backup. It's like, okay, Pete actually figured out the quarterback position. What's up with his defense? Isn't he, you know, one of the defensive masterminds in the history of football? So if I was, if I were to bet on it, I wouldn't put my life savings on it, but I would say Pete Carroll's never a head coach in the NFL again. I wouldn't put that at 100%. I would feel pretty good around 75, 80%. Depends on the coach market next year.

Let's just look ahead. The coach market. Obviously, Belichick's out there. You know, what if the Steelers were to win eight games? Could Tomlin be out there? Mike Vrable is out there. I think all those guys would get hired over Pete. Ben Johnson, you think eventually will be like,

yeah, you know what, I'll take $14 million. It's cool. Playing with Jared Gough and make a... and three or four, but how about we 4x that? That is inevitable. One of the Shanahan McVeigh guys is going to have a big year. I would keep all eyes on Bobby Sloick, the offensive coordinator for the Texans, who's a shanty guy.

You know, if they have another big year, he's 100% going to get a bunch of interviews. You know, there's always a Kubiak O'Connell type out there. Not talking Gary, I'm talking to kids. One's with Kyle. the other just went to New Orleans. I mean, if New Orleans had a really good year offensively, 10-11 wins. So it's just, you kind of get past. And I think age is working against them.

Obviously, it works against Bill too, but to me, Bill is a better candidate because the longer resume. Longtime listener, first time, DMer. What are your thoughts on what I believe will be eventually the eventual Tua extension? I hate the Dolphins, Bill's fan, but I do. do see the dilemma the dolphins are in. Two is good enough to beat you, and he can consistently keep you in the playoff hunt,

and possibly win the division. I don't think you can say possibly right now, because so far he is not. So I would say, as of this time right now, he can't win the division, because the other guy in the division is Josh Allen, your guy. However, there is a clear drop-off late in the season.

Totally agree. So he can't win the division, because of Josh Allen, and he doesn't play well in the cold. Well, he'd be like, well, we play in Miami. True. But let's pull up their old schedule right now. See who they play in November and December, the old Miami Dolphins. Let's go to ESPN.com.

Let's go to NFL and let's go to the old Miami Dolphins. Okay, so in November, they play the Bills, 11-3. So weather, probably not too crazy by then. But you never know. That's a game to keep an eye on. But, you know, decent chance. It's nothing crazy. They play at the Rams.

11-11. No weather. Raiders at home. Patriots at home. Okay, good. 1128, which looks like Sunday night football. At a little place called Lamb-Bow Field. That's got weather potential big time.

Jets at home, at the Texans in a dome, Niners at home, final two games. At the Brown's, awful weather game potential, at the Jets. Same thing. So he's got basically to end the season three of his last six games, Lambo, Cleveland, New York. Set all along, let's just prove it. If he finally does it, wins the division, shuts me up,

plays well in the cold, we can't say anything. How could you pay him $50 million without seeing another year? Are you just cool paying $50 million to be a wild card every year and make the playoffs? Like John, five years ago, four years ago, they paid DAC $40 million to do that. Yeah, he wins the division though. So he's getting me division titles and home playoff games. If Tua was doing what Dak was doing, I would acknowledge, like, I get it. Like, I don't get it now.

I can't say I get it because I do not get it if they're paying them. Shout out from Wyoming. Actually went there when I was scouting and really kind of enjoyed the town. Had an incredible steak dinner. I remember I asked one of the dudes on the football staff, what's your best steakhouse in Laramie, Wyoming,

where the university is, where Josh Allen played. He wasn't there then. And they told me it was pretty empty because it was like a Monday night or maybe a Sunday night during the fall. I just remember eating an incredible meal at the bar. On Tuesday's pod, you talked about

wide receiver one contract starting to reach insane guaranteed numbers. Is there a world where we start to see more and more top-end wide receivers hit free agency due to their asking price? And do steal for Moneyball as a response, we'll see more teams trying to recreate wide receiver one production in the cheap aggregate. Or as the Scotty Sheffler meme went, we can't duplicate Tiger individually, but we can take him down in the aggregate.

Rory, divorce, Scotty arrest. I'm telling you, that's where I think back to the IUC situation. Iuke wants all this money. He catches 75 balls a year. He's awesome player, but it's like, can't we just recreate that in the aggregate? Then what does Kyle Shanahan do? Drafts a wide receiver in the first round.

I got Christian McCaffrey. I'd rather just give him a $5 million raise he's catching me 70, 80 balls. So it gets... I think when you have a bona fide, no doubt about it, all-time great, when you got Jamar Chase,

when you got Justin Jefferson, you write what C.D. Lamb looked like last year. If a guy can play like that for what Tyreek Hill is, you ride that guy like a fucking horse, and you can pay him. But look at Devante. Devante is an elite player. Devante, pound for pound,

is one of the best pure football players in the league. But the last couple years, he's been to a team with the bad quarterback. And they can't win. It's not his fault, but he's dependent on the quarterback playing well. So he's playing with Aden O'Connell when Carr was playing bad, and it was shitty. And so it's like, we're paying all this guy money, and this is where it gets tough. I pay a guy a lot of money if I'm going to use the hell out of him and if I have the quarterback. And even then, the chiefs are like, yeah, we'll figure it out in the aggregate.

It was ugly, and everyone's like, oh, they're screwed. just like, no, they're not. I think it just depends. I think we're going to learn a lot with Ayuk. You know, the Eagles got Devante. They extended him. And Devante's a really good player, but he's not a top five wide receiver in the league.

It just depends how you look at it. And I think the hard part is, it's like when you have Devonty on your team, you love him because he's high character, he's a leader, he works hard, he sets a tone in practice. But like, let's face it, he doesn't make that much sense on the Raiders. He just doesn't.

If you told me the chiefs had traded for Devante Adams on the Packers or whatever, and he was playing with Patrick Mahomes or the Chargers or whoever he would make a lot more sense on, he just doesn't make sense on that team. So I guess this is a long-winded way of saying, I don't know, I think these teams end up paying that guy. I think it's the fringe guy. That's the way I think they're kind of going through with Iyuk. Like fringe one.

You know, he's probably, he's better than a two, but he's not a one. Because how many ones are there? Truly, how many ones are there? Jamar Chase won. Justin Jefferson won. Tyreek Hill one. C.D. Lamb one. Devonte Adams one.

Is D.K. a one? Damn good. A.J., probably a one when he's humming. He is a one when he's humming. And he's on the back end of the ones. Question for the mailback. what are some things often not considered with regard to contract extension negotiations? I assume the relationship with the agent and his other clients has an impact.

No, I mean, I think that's a bigger deal in some of these other sports. In the NFL, when you start talking with these contracts of good players, you're talking a lot of money. So I think it gets contentious because ultimately it's a business deal. and if I'm a GM or I'm the front office, my obligation is the best trying to sign you for the least amount of money because that's the healthiest thing for my team and building the team. And if you're the agent, you have one goal. You don't give one shit about the salary cap

unless you're Travis Kelsey or Patrick Mahomes. You do everything humanly possible to get the most money possible. I remember hearing stories when I was in the NFL and Bill Pollan and Tom Condon used to have it out over Peyton Manning's contracts. And Bill Pollan, there was like a famous in his office where Bill Pollan's like, Tom, how am I supposed to build the team? And Tom Condon's essentially like, I don't care. It's not my problem.

That's your job. Like their job, if you're representing a player, you're trying to get them the most money possible because that's how you get paid. Right? Like ideally, if you're representing someone selling their house, if it's on the market for one, if you knew you could sell it for two, you wouldn't give it to someone for one five.

Like, it's not your problem. Who's moving in, whether they like the house or not? Like, the team's their problem. Your job is to get the player paid. So I think it's a lot less who else is on the team. Even the relationship, like I know how his relationship with agents is really good

because he needs them. It's just, he has to negotiate with them. so it's easier to be friends with them. But that friendship only goes so far when you start talking money. Right? I don't care who we've all, I guess we all, but anyone listening who's worked with friends, worked with family, in theory it sounds pretty easy. But in business, like when money comes up, it gets very emotional.

It gets very contentious. Not everybody looks at money the same way. And when aggressive people with money, which most agents are, I think most of these conversations are pretty similar. When a player has leverage given he's a good player. When players, you know, like if you're a free agent on the street, no one wants you and I'm trying to get you for a couple million bucks,

it's a different story. But like these big, big deals, there's a lot of, like, no fucking way. I'm not, we're not signing that. Like, I bet the Ike and John Lynch did a lot of going back and forth. then there's a difference of like let's use Bosa last year in the Niners. They knew the number was going to be huge.

Niners are just trying to get as low as possible. But they know what they're, this one is like, no, we kind of have a number, guys. We, based on your history, like we don't, 30 ain't an option. And I think there are certain level of players where you like kind of draw a line this end. Then there are guys like Mahomes or Josh Allen,

like, what's the negotiation really? to be had once you kind of get in the ballpark. So I would imagine it gets pretty contentious. You know, I've talked to these guys before the contract negotiators during free agency. It can be late nights during training camp with holdout guys. I mean, you're just on the phone going back and forth. And it's kind of the first person to blink. That's what it is.

Who's going to blink first? That's what a lot of these holdouts are going to be. Like, who's going to blink first? Zach Martin. He's like, I'm not going to blink. Are you guys going to blink? Then they gave him a raise and everyone blinked. And Zach won. Cam Hayward right now holding out.

Are the Steelers going to blink? Are they just like, hey man, you're playing on, I forget the exact number off top of my head. But let's say he wants, I'm just picking a number here. I think this number's wrong. But let's say he makes $12 million this year and he wants $18. So am I going to get a $6 million race? And do they just like, we're not giving you a raise? Are they serious about that?

Or will they end up giving them a $4 million raise instead of a $7 million raise? And everyone's happy. You've got a raise and everyone's good. And that's kind of a lot of back and forth. We're talking a lot of money. But the people in the league, the agents and the contract negotiators and the GMs are numb to money. Right. If I said people listening right now, you're negotiating over a $500,000 deal.

Where if you're in sales and you locked out that deal, you would get five, $500,000 cash the next day into your account. I would imagine for most people, you would do everything humanly possible to get that done. But if I told you you were doing that same deal for $500, you'd probably care less. Right? So it's no different than this. Like the big money deals, there's a lot more urgency than like the little random players, the practice squad guys. Like, they're not going to waste that much energy on those.

And I think it's crazy, but once you're in the business long enough, you're just so numb to these numbers. Like, Howie Roseman's been started as a contract negotiator. He's been doing these contracts for two decades, two plus decades. Think how numb he is to signing $50, $100 million deals. Like, you just, you're just used to seeing it. most companies, if you sign a partnership worth seven figures, I mean, it's a huge deal. In the NFL, you just get used to the new bigger number.

And it's just all kind of funny money because it's all coming from the TV rights. So, yeah, I think it's a long-winded way of saying, I think there are some ugly conversations. I've heard a couple stories here and there about some pretty ugly conversations. I mean, there have been articles written, before on the back and forth. The owners get involved too. That's the other thing. Like, whenever the owner gets involved

and says, get it done, or we're making this happen, then it doesn't even matter. That's what happened with Deshawn Watson. Sean Watson told the Browns, like, I'm not coming. Then the owner got involved and guaranteed him the whole contract. I said, I'm in. Daniel Jones. Like, do you really? Like, can we give Joe Shane and Brian Daibald the benefit of the doubt?

Like, they like Daniel Jones, but they wanted to give him $40-plus million a year after a breakout 15 touchdown season, but the owner's like, make sure this happens. I remember reading the article last year of them, going back and forth at the Combine, them coming to New Jersey, them spending all the time. God, that's a lot of fucking work for Daniels. The volume. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite.

Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help another a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano. It's our favorite time of the year on our podcast point game, the playoffs. We're digging into the biggest surprises of the season. And I'm looking back on some of my greatest playoff moments. If we didn't talk ever again, I was hiring.

You just understood. That's how personal it got. Wow. Then after that game seven, Marquis coming to, he's like, you know I love you, dog. You know, it's all love. This was just playoffs.

This was just basketball. So listen to Point Game on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The story I told myself can then shape my behavior, and that can lead me to sabotage the possibility of connection. This Mental Health Awareness Month, tune into the podcast deeply well with Debbie Brown. If you've been searching for,

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