The Herd with Colin Cowherd - 3 & Out - Jayden Daniels & Commanders win, Josh Allen, Buffalo Bills CRUISE & Week 17 NFL Recap

Episode Date: December 30, 2024

John is back, breaking down an action-packed NFL Sunday capped by Jayden Daniels and the Washington Commanders defeating rookie QB Michael Penix Jr. and the Atlanta Falcons on Sunday Night Football by a score of 30-24. First, Middlekauff breaks down why former LSU Quarterback and Heisman Trophy winner Jayden Daniels continues to prove he’s a special player on the heels of an impressive rookie campaign before diving into Michael Penix Jr. taking over for a struggling Kirk Cousins in Atlanta. Then, Middlekauff breaks down Sam Darnold and the Minnesota Vikings surprising success this season after a crucial 27-25 victory over Joran Love and their NFC North rival Green Bay Packers. Next, Middlekauff unpacks the idea of tanking in the NFL and goes in on the hapless New York Giants as they win a game and accidentally played their way out of the No. 1 overall pick in the NFL draft. Finally, thoughts on Tom Brady as an announcer and why authenticity sells plus explaining the Caleb Williams discourse. 3:17 - SNF Week 17 - Falcons at Commanders reaction 20:43 - Sam Darnold has to be Vikings QB next year 25:43 - NFL teams do not TANK 31:37 - Tom Brady is too corporate on the broadcast 35:59 - Is Caleb Williams being unfairly judged too early? Follow John on Twitter, Instagram and YouTube for the latest. Check out Gametime - the fastest growing ticketing app in the US, and the official ticketing app of 3 & Out and GoLow -  for tickets to all of your favorite NFL, NBA, NHL, NCAA teams. Concert and comedy show tickets, too. Go to Gametime now to create an account, download the app and use code JOHN for $20 off your first purchase. #Volume #HerdSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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How are we doing? It's been a long day. I woke up with a little head cold, and I said, we have to watch some football because that's what we do, and that's what we did. So as I do every Sunday I went on with Colin after the Packer Sam Darnold game and it definitely was the Sam Darnold game

Again he's had a lot of those but then he got celebrated in the locker room And then I watched the Washington Commanders make the playoffs Beat Michael Panics And we will talk about that game right off the bat Because Jaden Daniels, Michael Panics

Kingsbury Rahim Morris What a game, man. What a game. That was fun. That was very enjoyable. It's crazy how commanders went from so bad to now this. Had a number two pick in the draft last year, and now they're 11 and 5. Playing the Cowboys. I mean, there's a decent chance.

I don't know if they'll rest starters or whatever get to 12 wins. Also wanted to hit on some other stuff. Obviously, Sam Darnold, where he ranks in the NFC, some of these bad teams winning today, very NFL. Tom Brady's performance. And we'll have a podcast Tuesday as well. So after the Monday night game, Lions 49ers. And yeah, do a big mailbag tomorrow.

Did a couple mailbag questions a day. So make sure you, if you listen on Collins feed, make sure you subscribe to three and out. If you like a YouTube, we got a YouTube page. Go subscribe to that as well. Buckle up last Monday night football game of the year. Well, I guess there's a playoff Monday night football game now. So I was wrong there.

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The two coaches are just really likable. I mean, Dan Quinn, I don't know the guy personally, feels like one of the more just genuine, nice guys in the NFL. I don't know if I've ever heard a bad word about that guy. Rahim Morris is another one of those guys that everyone seems to like. And they just feel very like positive, uplifting human beings. Like two guys that would be fun to play for. Those two quarterbacks.

Now, I liked Penix more, I think, the last couple years in college. Now, granted, I watched way more of Penix than I did of Jaden Daniels. and I let Jaden Daniels experience at Arizona State kind of jade my belief in him, even with his dominance at LSU, but he clearly is a pretty special player. And those two guys are just really, really easy to root for. Pennix, this left-handed gunslinger, pocket quarterback,

and Jaden Daniels, this dual threat, huge arm, runs around, kind of like nonchalantly. it's like, Jaden, you should probably run a little faster, but maybe he is running full speed, but it feels like he's going half speed. They're just easy guys to watch. And we'll dive into Panics, obviously, he missed some throws. And I just, I really just enjoyed that experience.

What was on the line for the Falcons, what they had done, investing in cousins, drafting this guy, and it looks like they're going to miss the playoffs. And then Washington, it's like this franchise has been such a joke, new owner, new quarterback, new GM, boom, playoffs year one 11 wins so it just that that that was fun and i think early on in that game it was like washington's in major trouble they could not stop be john robinson who it felt like was about to have a sayquan barkley like day looked like he was going to go for 170 yards i mean

he was unstoppable in the first half uh and it felt like he was gaining steam jaden daniels and the offense was really off. Kingsbury, who everyone just loves, and listen, he's got a lot of friends in the media. Seems like a good guy. But offensively, philosophically, I don't view football quite like him. And he went through a stretch there. It's like, Cliff, this isn't the air raid. We're not in the Big 12.

Your quarterback is getting fucking killed. Just run the ball. Take a deep breath. Just let it settle. And at one point in time, it's like 17 to 7. You're like, Cliff, you can't just throw the ball constantly with the way your quarterback's getting hit. And it's not even like this is a great pass rush. But Jaden was off and it was unraveling.

And then whatever happened at halftime, they settled down. And one, it felt like they ran the ball a lot more. It felt like they just called a lot more easier completions. Not everything has to be a down-the-field bomb. And I don't know if Jaden just settled down on the speed of the game. but he was much more calm, cool, collected, comfortable, and made a ton of plays down the stretch. And that final drive in overtime was really fantastic. I mean, with his legs, with his arms, obviously the game winning touchdown pass to Ertz.

Urch was fantastic tonight. I mean, what a great signing. This is what happens, you know, sometimes when you restart a franchise. And then that's what Adam Peters and Dan Quinn did. And they were going to rely heavily on Jaden D. Daniels this season, right? They were going to rely heavily on him. But there was, I think right before Jaden threw that game winning touchdown pass, look who was talking to him and kind of hyping him up. Not a coach. Marcus Marriota. Look at how big Zach Hertz was tonight. Caught

multiple touchdowns, had another big play in the middle of the field. Like, you have to have strike a balance when you reset a franchise of getting grownups in the building, getting guys, obviously, obviously you need good players. You can't win 11 games without good players. And they were lucky they inherited. I mean, Terry McClureans having one of the best years as a wide receiver and they inherited them. Right. Defensively, they didn't have much. They traded a couple of D-Lyman and had to kind of start over there. But offensively, when you get Marriota, a veteran just high character who's seen it all to be right there for your quarterback and you get Zach Ertz who actually gets to be on the field for him. You had Brian Robinson on the team as well. But I thought Jaden tonight,

And Cliff really settled down. Because at one point in time, I thought he was going to throw away the game. I'm like, this is the guy that used to drive me bananas. Stop spreading it out when it isn't working. You're only down, 10 points, 7 points, take a deep breath, run the ball a couple snaps. Your quarterback is all out of sync. And then they did, and everyone settled down. And all of a sudden they come on a 17-0 run.

And they have a 24-7 lead. And Michael Pennix is, you know, I think when you're comparing these two quarterbacks, you're like, and I was telling Maria during dinner, like during the third quarter, we were eating, and I was kind of describing who these two guys were, where they came from, how they both got drafted. She was a cousin's guy because of it on the Netflix show. And I'm like, yeah, he got, you know, Coles Cash got sent to the bench for this guy, but this is only a second game.

And in football, and it was well reported last week, he doesn't get any reps. So once cousins came back from the injury in training camp, he gets all the reps. Drake London, Kyle Pitts, Bejohn Robinson, those are all cousins. And Michael Panix got none till the start of last week. Because I'm a big Michael Panics guy. I like the draft pick. I don't like the way it all came together with like signing cousins and him. But just in a vacuum, I like Michael Penix, the player.

But there were a ton of throws tonight. He hit some big ones. Obviously the game tying throw that essentially sent the game to overtime to Kyle Pitts, which was an absolute dime on fourth down. But like there were several throws that he would have made in his sleep at Washington that he missed tonight. And it wasn't because his arm wasn't good enough or he had shitty footwork. He just missed the throw.

And it's like, well, of course, he hasn't practiced with these guys at all until 14 days ago. So the timing with these guys on some of these routes, the footwork to setting up your throw to hitching and letting it rip is just going to be off. Why? He's practicing with a bunch of. practice squad receivers. And like, is Atlanta in this spot if he started the whole year? I don't know.

Who knows how it would have gone? But to throw him in last week when coming up was this game on the road in Washington, basically with your season on the line, is this bad management, especially when Cousins had been playing as shitty as he was playing. Like, he had been terrible for a while. They should have got him in the game sooner. they should have started them earlier in the year. Like listen, once you draft them like you got both guys.

It was pretty evident like a month ago. Cousins looked shot. Like this thing was over. But listen, anytime you make an investment, anytime that you go all in on something, you don't want to look like an idiot. The front office, the coach, and they let it ride.

And I think they let it ride a couple weeks too long because this might not have been a close game. if Pennix just had more reps going with his guys because tonight I thought it was pretty evident that the timing was off. Now that being said, he's really talented and he made, I mean, a couple of those throws on the final drive in regulation

where he hit London, where he hit pits. I mean, that felt a little bit like Alex Smith to Vernon Davis 15 years ago. It wasn't quite the same, but Steve Young to Terrell Owens. You got to put it right. Like you have no room. He's run right down the middle,

of the field. You got multiple defenders, one ahead of them, one behind them. You got another one coming across. And the throw has to be perfect. There is probably, I don't know, a couple foot radius where you can put the ball. And he did. And then obviously Washington gets the ball and never looks back in overtime. Scores a touchdown and subments the game. But I think if you're an Atlanta Falcons fan, you've got to be asking yourself, like, would this have been different if he would have got in the game earlier in the season? Because one thing that Washington, really benefited from, and you felt it tonight, because let's face it, Jade looked terrible halfway through that game.

Like, it's just off. And I started thinking, like, it's going to suck. He's having this fantastic rookie season, but this is going to be one of their most watch games of the year. And it felt like just he and the offense was just unraveling a little bit. It's like, God, this is going to leave such a bad taste in everyone's mouth. People are going to use this. And as the game went on, he just settled down.

obviously Cliff did a better job of Colin plays, but his experience to lean back over game after game after game. I mean, this guy's played every snap for him. I guess he got injured and Marriota came in in the one game, but you know what I mean? Like, this guy has a lot of game reps now in the National Football League. Both these two guys played a ton in college. Jaden Daniels was five-year starter.

Pennix, some injuries are factored in there, but was a six-year starter in college. But the NFL is a different animal. It's a different speed. All the defensive players are dramatically better. And I think you just saw like some rust over lack of reps with Michael Pennix as the game went on. He was his very hit or miss throw to throw. Where Jaden Daniels, as the game went on, felt like he got stronger.

Why? He does this every week. But as a massive win by Washington, it really is. And even their defense, like, they do not have some stacked defense with a bunch of pro bowlers. And you watched as that game went on and they asked Dan Quinn about it. Like, how are you going to stop Bijon Robinson? He's like we got to get our pads down.

We got to tackle them. And it just felt like they corralled them much better in the second half. Because if they hadn't and didn't tackle him as well and just, I don't know, found a way to slow him down. They were going to be in major trouble. Because you're watching the first half going. Yeah, I get why they drafted him in the top 10. I guess I get why my scouting buddies that did tackle.

Texas love this guy because he is a physical monster. Turns out he's an actor too. But that is, that was a fun football game. And if you're Atlanta, you've got to be going, shit. We're up 17 to 7 on the road. What the hell happened? How did we unravel like that? And some big plays, we're giving up by their defense.

And obviously, Jayden just, I mean, one thing, one major difference, obviously, when you just watch the two guys, the reason one guy was. the number two overall pick. And the other guy was a controversial, even if Atlanta, any team that was going to take him in the top 10, like Michael Pennix would have been a polarizing pick. He's a pocket quarterback.

He is, I mean, he's essentially if he's going to be a bigger Tua, but unlike Tua, he's got way bigger hands. I like him more than Tua coming out. But like that's going to be the style of his game. Just in terms of, you know,

he's going to try to get the ball out of his hand quickly. He throws a better deep ball, but both those guys, like, he's just a bigger, stronger version of Tua. Jaden Daniels is like some version of like Lamar Jackson, right? throws a fantastic strike. Like there were so many balls early on in that game where he's just hitting guys, like one, two ball right out of his hand. You're like, this guy's throwing 90 mile an hour seeds.

And then obviously with the running game, his ability to make guys missing space, defensive linemen never have him despite the angles. And he can keep plays alive to gain first downs pretty easily. like he makes a guy missing space no problem and that was a huge point of difference tonight how many times tonight when they needed a big play they got him on the edge especially running to his right

he's really fucking dangerous obviously he has the speed if he has and you don't have an angle to get to the first down just around everybody but he also has the ability to make a guy miss and he's not doing some crazy like Barry Sanders shady you know hips moving in space but he's kind of

got like a subtle under move where he just goes right around you and all of a sudden you're just hugging air and well i don't know what his final numbers were on the ground but he had 16 carries god he had 16 carries for 127 yards 16 carries for 127 yards so they ran for 216 yards and he had a i mean he threw for 227 and had a 127 i mean he accounted for essentially 300 yards like 350 yards but fantastic effort by Jane Daniels holy shit

I didn't realize he had that many yards on the ground I really didn't one thing with the Falcons tonight up until that final drive where I thought panic showed a lot is they were terrible going into that final drive

they were one and seven on third down he hit a big first down to Drake London and then on that fourth down play obviously hit the play to Kyle Pitts, and that was after, remember, on first and goal, some of these coordinators, man, they get just so cute

trying to run a wildcat. It's like your quarterback had just led you down the field. Win or lose with a quarterback. And if you do want the ball in Bejohn's hand, either run a wheel route for him or hand him the ball. But to run Wildcat with him, and I know it's easy to play Monday morning quarterback when the ball flies over his head,

but it's insane after that fucked up fumble that they ended up scoring a touchdown. I mean, what a testament to Michael Pennix. And this is why I like Michael Pennix so much. Because it's very evident with Jaden. Like, these guys are mentally tough. It's hard to rattle these cats. They have played a ton. This is not one year starter.

This is not two years for Caleb at USC. Right? And it's like, God, it's just unraveling. Like, these guys, these guys have seen some shit. Five and six year starters in college. I guess the amount of games those two guys ran out the tunnel for in college is pretty nuts. And, you know, Pennix had been better for longer. Obviously, Jaden would ever click last year.

He's never looked back. But, you know, Jaden's a pretty special player. I think Michael Pennock's going to be good. And I think this falls on the Atlanta Falcons for waiting this long. Like, they're going to miss the playoffs because, like, their quarterback situation was clunky. It really was. give $100 million to a guy with the torn Achilles, and then he's playing so shitty,

and then they wait a game, and he keeps playing shitty, and then they wait a couple more games, and they finally pull the trigger, and it's kind of too late. And now you're going to look up, and Tampa's going to be probably playing, like, the Lions in the first round. And a lot of pressure then would be on the Lions,

and Baker Mayfield's actually playing pretty well. But, like, Tampa Bay is just much better run than the Atlanta Falcons. I don't know, is that even, can we even argue that? Like, Tampa's a well, run franchise. Atlanta has some good players, but like, do they

know what they doing? Do they just kind of throw some stuff at the wall and hope it sticks? Because that's the thing. Like, I've known Adam Peters for a while. Like, Washington has a plan. Like, they have an idea what they want to do. Obviously, they're ahead of schedule this year, but like, they have a clear idea of what

they're going to do over the next couple years. In Atlanta, like, I don't know. Like, they got some good players, like trade for Judon. It just feels like they're kind of flying by the seat of their pants. and at the end of the day, it kind of bit them. But congrats to Washington. It's the most wonderful time of year

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I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. I talk with Colin a lot about this, but I got a question from the mailbag that I think is pretty interesting. So it can kind of lead us to where we want to talk about Sam Donald, who had one of the coolest moments after the game in the locker room. And I think it serves as a great example.

And you don't have to be NFL quarterback talent. I just think this, any human being can relate to this. You are going to go through some shitty. in life. It is inevitable. It is not avoidable. Professionally, you are going to have a rough stretch. Some is worse than others, but all of us can relate to tough times professionally. And Sam Darnold's was very public, and everyone made fun of them. And it was just embarrassing. But you know what? He just kept his head up and he kept swing it. And it never felt like he battled it. Like, fuck everybody. He just like kept his head

kept swinging. Kept his head up, kept swinging. Goes last year to San Francisco, changed the course of his career, goes to Kevin O'Connell, and is now just having a career year. And his team freaking loves him. If you're a Minnesota Vikings fan, you watch that game the day. I mean, he was brilliant.

Beside a couple passes, he looked like Joe Montana meets Josh Allen. I mean, he was incredible. And I got this question that says, where does Donald rank? Because we know in the AFC, five best quarterbacks in the NFL are in the AFC.

Mahomes, Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson, Joe Burrow, Justin Herbert. Those are the five best quarterbacks in the National Football League and they play in the AFC. But what about the NFC? Because the only two guys I would clearly take over them right now are golf and hurts. Then it's the class of the DAC, love,

Baker, Stafford. I'll throw a party in there, try to give him a little love. I think Sam Donald, again, because we can only base his success on this season. Like Sam Darnold's success is this season. You have nothing else to go back on. Because it was unsuccessful before this year.

So just based on this season, the only guy in the NFC that has an argument, and I was looking at their numbers actually during the game, is Jared Goff, who statistically was more accurate. And I don't know exactly the touchdowns, they wouldn't be equal because Goff plays on Monday night football. But like, they're having,

Goff's actually thrown for more yards, but Sam Darnold is, it does feel like, it means just a fact, is more athletic. Obviously, Donald has a stronger arm, but both guys have been unreal. Locke NFC Pro Bowl guys. Sam Darnold this year,

over the course of his career, obviously, it's not even debatable. But just talking 2024 has been objectively better than Jalen Hertz. And honestly, the gap's pretty wide. And I'm not counting. Obviously, he didn't play today because of concussion, but before a couple weeks ago,

Jayland was not having a very good season passing. He was not throwing many touchdowns. And it's not like he doesn't have guys to throw touchdowns too. Ironically today, they got backups in Kenny Pickett and Tanner McKee that are just throwing touchdown after touchdown after touchdown after touchdown. It was crazy. But I would say this, based on this season, the only guy you would take over Sam Darnel would be Jared Gough.

And here's what I know. Jared Goff would not be as good on Minnesota because Jared can't move and right now Minnesota's offensive line is a little hit or miss so part of Sam Donald's success is moving around like they would actually be better off they might even take Jalen Hertz over Jared Goff because they need some mobility

because they couldn't have a guy that can't really move Jared obviously not a mobile guy but has a great offensive line so it's a good question I think what Sam has done remarkable and Very cool, cool year. I mean, at this point in time, like, if you're arguing, get rid of them and go with J.G. McCarthy, like, we probably wouldn't be friends. Like, I think there's only one outcome.

Now, if we want to argue whether you franchise tag them or sign them to a long-term contract, like, okay, we can have that argument. But Sam Donald has to be their quarterback next year. I mean, it has to happen. I mean, Jordan Love got $160 million. $75 million signing bonus. $3.25 million. increments over the course. I think he just actually recently got one around Christmas, his last. Pretty good signing bonus. $3.25 million dollar little direct deposits.

There are taxed, so it's probably, you know, I don't know exactly know the Green Bay tax rates, but 15, 14, I mean, it's a large chunk of money. So Jordan loves living well. But he got that based on eight games and a cowboy game because he threw two picks in the the nineer game and one that ended the game for an L. So Sam Darnold, like at this point in time, has really start to finish, beside a couple games mixed into the season, been an elite player. I mean, been a dominant, dominant player.

He's going to be the Minnesota Vikings quarterback next season. A lot of talk about the draft. A couple quick things I wrote down about the draft. The Patriots are the only team locked into a top five pick. So of all the shitty teams, they're the only team that is guaranteed to draft in the top five.

Four teams, as of the first. right now. This is my guy Fieldy Yates actually tweeted this out. I just wrote down because I love these nuggets. Four teams currently heading into week 18 have a shot for the number one overall pick. Obviously the Patriots, the Cleveland Browns, the Tennessee Titans, and the New York football giants. So I got this question. I think it's intriguing because I think this was a topic that I definitely wanted to hit on today. Me and Colin didn't talk about it. The Giants had one thing going for them. The chance at the number one overall pick.

And those idiots, he didn't even use a little meaner word, go and win the game. I'm no longer a fan. A pointless win will cost them a real quarterback. They simply get everything wrong. Here's the shitty part about being a fan. Like, you've endured this entire season. If you're a Giants fan or up until

a couple weeks ago, a Raider fan. And really the only hope you had as the season went on was maybe to see neighbors or Brock Bowers make some sweet plays. But also keep losing. No one is rooting for you to lose until all of a sudden your record is so pitiful getting close to Christmas, there is no point to win. So we can have the number one overall pick. Even if the number one overall pick doesn't guarantee us anything.

Here's the problem. And this is the power of the NFL. No coach, no player, gives a shit. None of them don't try. Just know this. Whenever the Chicago Bears, they have lost 10 straight

NFL football games. I mean, that's pretty hard to do. I don't know what the record. I guess the record's 0 and 16. But like, I would imagine there's a short list of teams over the last decade that have lost more than 10 straight games

or even up to 10. Like that's very, very difficult to do. just know this. They have literally tried very hard, while it might not show on television, to win all 10 of those games. They have wanted to, prepared, worked, game plan to try to win.

And that's the power of football. You know, in basketball, people tank all the time. The league's been tanking well before Darry or the process and Sam Hinky well before. It became in vogue and much more famous, but we've known it's been going on for a long time. Think about the most controversial thing to happen over like the last three or four years

when it comes to that type stuff in football. It was Stephen Ross told Brian Flores, I want you to lose games. I will pay you 100 grand every game you lose. Brian Flores, in a draft that had Joe fucking Burrow won three of his last four games. Maybe three of his last five games. I think he won three games in the month of December.

And they went from a shoe-in to get Joe Burrow, who clearly would have changed their entire franchise. Hell, they're not even that terrible right now. They've made the playoffs the last couple of years. They'll probably end up going nine and eight. And they got to a, who's middle of the road at best? They could, I know he didn't play today, but could have Joe Burrow. And Brian Flores and the rest of his coaches and the rest of his players said not so fast, my friend. And they won games. Hell, they actually beat the Bengals. I mean, that was a big reason the Bengals ended up with Joe Burrow. Now, granted, They took the wrong quarterback.

They should have taken Herbert, but everyone tries in football. Everyone tries. You might get your ass kicked. Like you might get worked. I was watching the BYU-U Colorado game last night. Colorado got their ass kicked. They were trying. And they were trying hard.

And that's what you know as a consumer. You know when you turn on the game that ideally you get something situation like Washington, Atlanta, where it's a very entertaining, just back and forth. Either team could win. Like, obviously that's the best case scenario, just from an entertainment. standpoint. But it's just, it's a point of differentiation for football that no matter what, till the last snap week 18, coaches, players are going to try their ass off. I saw Foster Monroe, I retweeted it, who is on the Saints, just went on this long, long kind of rant about like,

if you're not willing to lay it on the line every single week, like, just get out of this locker room. This sport is way too hard. No one cares. The majority of the guys on a team are not guaranteed a roster spot. That's where guaranteed money comes in. Coaches can get fired at any moment. And it sucks to be a fan in that situation. Not because Shador guarantees you anything.

Shador might be good in the NFL. He might not. We have no clue. And, I mean, I thought Caleb Williams, all I was told by everybody, he's like, can't miss greatest player since Joe Mondi. Montana, meets John Elway,

meets Andrew Luck, meets Peyton Manning, meets Michael Vic, meets Lamar Jackson. You watch him, he looks fucking terrible. It's like, well, his coaches,

the circumstances, like he holds on the ball for like 15 seconds, every other play. So you never know anything. And that's kind of a sneaky problem with Shador, he holds on the ball.

But I like Shador Sanders. But I like Caleb too. And then you just, you never know. This sport's really hard. But ultimately my point is that like you have to acknowledge, like,

or just accept the fact that any game, no matter how, how crappy your team is, no matter how bad it is, you can just win a game. You can just win a game because the coaches and the players are really going to be trying. Okay, Tom Brady. Tom Brady's performance has given me a greater appreciation for Tony Romo.

I hate doing this because you don't become the greatest teammate of all time and everyone that plays with you. Obviously, they revere your ability and your accomplishments. But like everyone to a man that I've ever met that played for the Patriots is like, Tom's just a good guy. Tom's just a legit, nice dude. And it's hard.

He's an easy guy to just follow his lead. And if you play around him, you get better. And the way he treats, especially as he got more famous, the way he treated everybody, the way he treats his coaches, the assistant coaches, people around the building. Like, no one that was ever around him in New England. And obviously Tampa, I've ever heard a bad word about him. Like, not a word. so it pains me to do this

but I've tried to come around like you know it's just not that good it's just not that good it's very difficult for Tom to just be the Tom that can like shoot the shit with Julian Edelman

when the cameras are off because clearly there's a different guy and sometimes like my YouTube clip feed will throw me something like John Madden or even like when you see John Gruden doing these clips now for Barstool but same with Monday night. He was like that when he was the Raiders.

Like he just, that's just him. John Gruden is just, or I mean, John Madden was just John Madden. There's such a joy to Chris Collinsworth when he's calling a game. Tony Romo is actually kind of grown on me. I used to think he was cheesy, but it's like, that's just kind of him.

I think Brady goes back into like this corporate mode. Like, bro, just be one of the dudes. We're just trying to hang out with you. And I think it's, I don't crush him for misspeaking or forgetting something. It happens to me all the time. Part of speaking. But the thing that it's,

really difficult for him is just to be loose. He's just not loose. And I thought he was kind of getting it. I remember a game like middle of the year, but you watched him the day. I mean, today was a big game. Vikings Packers. Awful slate. It was by a mile the morning or the afternoon.

The best game. Nothing was close. The anticipation. I mean, it had to be the highest rated game of the day. It was the national game. And it's just like, ugh, it's just, and I'm not one of those people that are like, Greg Olson got screwed. No, this is business.

Tom Brady's worth a lot more to them from an advertising standpoint, from a famous standpoint. But like, just from who's better at their job, Greg can just be a little more normal. And I think Tom, for whatever reason, struggles with clearly, like, his life is not normal. He's Tom Brady, right? He lives a much different lifestyle than even most, like, rich, famous people. but he has the ability because he's proven it when the cameras are off in the locker room or on the field with the boys, he can be one of the guys.

Because you watch like Julian Edelman, like he can just be himself. Rob Gorkowski can just be himself. I think Tom has a really hard time broadcasting this games just being himself. He actually said one of the most insightful things I think I've heard him say of all the games I've watched. The way that they approached in New England

when you had three timeouts under the two-minute warning, you can elongate the drive. So basically you take a timeout somewhere between two minutes and one minute. You take another timeout somewhere between one minute and 30 seconds and you leave yourself one time out under 30 seconds. I'm like, well Tom, if you are going to be kind of corporatey,

at least give me some sweet nuggets of all the cool shit you guys used to do in New England. But I don't know. It pains me to say it because everyone likes him in the football world. Like he's the ultimate football guy. then he gets on television and he becomes like the corporate guy and it's like this is we've already seen

the way society shifted heavily over the last six months authenticity sells just be yourself and it's tough I mean it and I understand it's he's thrown in the fire but like hey fuck they gave you $350 million right and it does show you like like I'm watching these games whether Brady calls it

whether you call it whether my mom calls it Like it's not determining whether we watch or not, so if I'm going to watch it, I might as well be entertained. It's just not really working. I'm going to end on this, because I think this guy is going to become more and more polarizing this entire off season. Big fan, long time listener. I started to think that Caleb Discourse is getting a little out of hand.

We're not even a full year in, and we're already making declarations that Jane Daniels and Bo Nicks are better players. But they all have comparable stats. I think when trying to make sense of this season, you need to factor in everyone's college careers and their current situations. Jaden started 55 games

and has a former head coach as his O.C. Yeah, okay, yeah, you're right. Bo Nick started 61 games and has Freakin'Haw-Keyton. Caleb started 37 games and had Iberfluse. Are we really surprised that the quarterback with the least amount of games started by a wide margin

in the most chaotic coaching situation two head coaches, 3 OCs is having a bad season. I think that all the generational talent talk clouded everyone's judgment. Talent doesn't matter if you don't have the right coaching staff. Here's one problem for Caleb and Drake May. Is none of their snaps in any of the... Like tonight, Bo Knicks, or excuse me,

well, Bo Nicks against Cincinnati, and Michael Pennix and Jane Daniels tonight. Every snap they took tonight matter. Every part of that game mattered. They were literally, like Bo Nix and those two guys, playing to get into the playoffs. They're playing on prime time with playoff implications. Every fucking play of that game,

offensively and defense, mattered. Caleb Williams and Drake May haven't played a snap that mattered in months. None of their shit means anything. So like when I'm watching these guys, and I put Drake here too, is like we get so excited when they throw a touchdown, down 20. It's like, what does that matter? It doesn't, it's not in the context.

context of the game, the game's already out of hand, you're not going to win the game, you can't win the game. And I think Caleb has thrown a lot of touchdowns in equivalent of garbage time. Now, some of those are in the second or third quarter, but they're down 25 to nothing. So if you do a bunch of throw a bunch of touchdowns in the third quarter, and I bet if we broke it down, he has over the last couple months, throwing a bunch of touchdowns in the second half where they're down big. None of those throws actually matter. And I'm not trying to diminish his talent. He's got a big time arm. He can move. But there is no disputing. You watch tonight, Pennix. A couple times he held onto the ball too long. As the game went on,

he got the ball out of his hand. Jaden sometimes hold on to the ball too long. Then he realized, got to get the ball out of my hand. Caleb holds onto the ball forever. It's like, this is not, you're not playing Arizona. And I get it as coaching sucks. But eventually, like, you're looking down the gun barrel, people are chasing you, and guys are running down the seam and running outs and slants. You either got to get rid of the ball, you're going to get sacked. And the guy holds on to the ball, like if he gets rid of it, he's going to go bankrupt or something. It's crazy. It is a glaring, glaring deficiency. And if that

is something you can coach out, I would say historically, I think it's easier to change accuracy than it is like guys that just kind of freeze up. And if you go back to USC, he kind of played like that as well, but he could pull plays out of his ass. I would say it's kind of concerning. His talent is not concerning. That characteristic, some coaches would say it's not something you can change. And whoever gets the job, whether it's the head coach is also the guy calling the plays or the head coach has to bring in an OC. They have a massive, massive thing to fix. Drake just is just playing in meaningless games. His team's terrible. But even he gets rid of the ball faster. Caleb, you just have to be a little concerned because you can be like, you can't blame Eva Fluce. You can't blame

Waldron. Like, those guys have been fired for a long time now. He just drops back and hold on of the football. And I'm not some hater. Like, I would have taken him number one too. But anyone that watches them, I think we have to agree, it's kind of concerning. Right? I mean, it's just kind of concerning. Because he does have good wide receivers. It's just like

he won't pull the trigger. But overall, like, it's got a chance to be a really, really good rookie class. All these guys have a lot of talent. But there's a big difference between having a lot of talent and then becoming a good player and then becoming a good player and then becoming a guy that you could win with.

because Kyler, very talented guy, really talented guy, freak talent. One of the, honestly, just pound for pound, one of the better talents in recent memory. Can you win on Kyler Murray? I don't know. Probably not. And Kyler was every bit the prospect of Caleb. Caleb was taller, but Kyler was every bit as talented. Like, is Caleb going to be as good as that?

I don't know. I'm just saying, like, this is hard. This is why when everyone was picking the bears, I said, guys, this shit, I didn't think any of these rookies had a chance. It's crazy what Jayden's done. And they benefited their division actually turned out to be kind of shitty. But this shit's difficult. Like, all these teams have a bunch of guys that live in mansions and drive range rovers.

Their kids go to private schools and they've been, you know, every team's got guys been a pro bowl or two. Some teams have many. And this is not, like, you're not getting patsies. Even the shitty teams in the NFL. It's why, like, this is not college football where it's a subjective, yeah, we think this schedule's hard or this schedule is hard.

Even if your schedule is a little easier than others, it's still hard. It is hard, like, you fuck around, the Giants will beat you. You screw around like you'll be tied with the Raiders. Hell, we've seen the Raiders who are somehow drafting 9th now. They beat the Ravens this year.

They almost beat the Chiefs. Like, this is, you know, football in the pros, even crappy teams got three or four guys on any given game can score a couple touchdowns get a couple sacks

pick the ball off you know like all their guys are pros and they got all their coaches you know coordinators are making millions head coaches making millions

like they're really really trying and the shit's really really hard really hard I've seen it firsthand I was there you know we won one year with the Eagles but we also lost

we had Andy Reid is our coach Andy Reid won the division win 500 and then he won like four games got fired football's fucking difficult so to think that like all these guys

everything's gonna be cool like I don't know maybe maybe not I mean we see it all the time maybe you'll just be average because that's what usually happens all these guys aren't gonna hit hell statistically it would prove that you know based on history

that like half these guys aren't even going to be on their team based on the last draft where a bunch of guys were drafted like after the first three or four years. I don't think it's going to be that crazy here, but you never know. Like, shit gets weird and gets really fast.

Okay, I'm gonna go to bed if I can beat this cold, and see you guys later. Adios. The volume. Hey guys, it's us. The Jonas Brothers. I'm Joe.

I'm Kevin. And I'm Nick. And guess what? We created our own podcast called, Hey, Jonas. Nice. We invented a podcast. Well, we didn't invent it.

We just contributed to it. We get to ask other people to do podcasts. We get to ask other people questions because we're sick and tired of and ask questions. Well, sick and tired is a strong way to put it, but, you know, tired and sick. Tired and sick.

Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier.

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