The Herd with Colin Cowherd - 3 & Out - LIVE from The NFL Combine Day 3, Longtime NFL reporter Albert Breer stops by, NFL Films Sr Producer Greg Cosell joins the show

Episode Date: February 27, 2026

John wraps up his time at the combine talking with two of the best to cover the NFL; Albert Breer and Greg Cosell. John talks with the guys about the top NFL Draft prospects, what it's like covering the combine today compared to years ago, and how the NFL is turning more and more into an international sport. All that and more with Albert and Greg. Follow John on Twitter, Instagram and YouTube for the latest.  All lines provided by Hard Rock Bet Use promo code “3ANDOUT20” on https://nicokick.com/zone for 20% off at checkout! Check out Gametime - the fastest growing ticketing app in the US, and the official ticketing app of 3 & Out and GoLow -  for tickets to all of your favorite NFL, NBA, NHL, NCAA teams. Concert and comedy show tickets, too. Go to Gametime now to create an account, download the app and use code JOHN for $20 off your first purchase. #VolumeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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What is going on, everybody? John Middlecock, Three Now Podcast. How are we doing? Hopefully everyone is doing well. We are back in Arizona off a little sleep. and ready to enjoy some sun. Get out of the freezing cold weather. I guess it honestly wasn't that cold.

I've been to Indy when it's definitely been colder and snowing, so we avoided that. But today we will talk to Albert Breer, who information gatherer in the National Football League, and we will also talk to Greg Kosell, who knows quarterbacks as well as anybody. And it turns out he was friends with Bill. Walsh. So we'll talk to Greg Kosell. That will be the show today on this Fugazi Friday because your boy is out of gas.

So we banged out some interviews when we were there and that's what we will do today. So we'll go with Albert Breer and then Greg Kosell. You guys know the drill. Subscribe to the podcast wherever you may listen. You can catch obviously all the video up on Netflix and enjoy. Let's dive into Breer. Okay, here with Mr. Information, Albert Breer, I watch her. bag on YouTube all the time and I've obviously, Colin, you just, you feed me full of information. So this is obviously a big week for people like you. Yep. Coming in. What's the buzz out there on the street right now? Yeah, I mean, I think this is like an interesting off season.

I think the free agent market is what it's always been or has been for the last few years where the caps escalated to the point where if you want to keep a guy, you generally can. So you're starting to hear about tags, right? So George Pickens, Alec Pierce, Brees Hall, it winds up becoming a really thin market. And so I think that that goose is the trade market, creates some more conversations between teams where, you know, teams that have needs that they need to fill, have to get it a little bit more creative. And then, you know, I think, like, for me at least, like over the last couple weeks,

you know, I'm just trying to cram and learn as much about the draft class as I possibly can. and that's interesting too because I feel like there are a couple of stories in this year's drafts. I mean, the first one I think is that it's Fernando Mendoza and then who the hell knows at quarterback. There may be only one answer and if that guy's going first overall,

it's going to leave a lot of teams. You know, in March, looking for some sort of answer whether it's a bridge or something else at quarterback. You know, and then I think the very top of the draft you don't have like the prototypes, like the cyborgs. know what I mean, there's no Calvin Johnson receiver. There's no Miles Garrett's.

Miles Garrett's. Defense event, you know, there's no Penaiseuil tackle. So, you know, it's for the teams at the top, it's sort of interesting, like where once you get past Mendoza going to the Raiders, you know, the Jets, the Titans, what do these teams do? Are you comfortable taking David Bailey or Arvel Reese, you know, as edge rushers? Arvel Reese is kind of more of like a Micah Parsons hybrid. Are you comfortable taking Spencer Fano that high?

Or do you look at it and do you go non-premium? position with a Jeremiah Love or a Caleb Downs. You know, I think it's interesting from that standpoint. Although it does sound like from what I can gather, there's some good depth. So like once you settle into bottom of the first round, second and third round, you can do some really good work. Okay, let's just start with Fernando.

I mean, I'm biased. I'm a big Spitech guy. Last year it was weird, obviously, the Pete thing. The quarterback, you've covered a lot of the Brady situation. He lives in Florida, so it's not like he's in the building every day. Yeah. You get draft, I mean, Indiana, your Ohio State guy, Indiana turned into Ohio State in like two years somehow. It doesn't get much better than what he did. The Raiders have a lot of issues. The Max Crosby thing hanging over, just your thoughts on Fernando going to a team that's obviously not that good. Yeah, I mean, I think like it's interesting because, you know, I do a big thing, you know, every year with DJ and with McShay and kind of have them. Like, I had them. I was like, so we're,

do they these got where would Fernando rank historically and this is sort of what I've gotten from teams too is that like he would be in the class two years ago would have been fourth beyond the big three and ahead of McCarthy Penix and nicks yeah um you know and then and then you look back a few more years and it's like well over the last five years where would he be fourth or fifth you know depending on how you look at him versus cam ward so um he's a really good prospect worthy of going first overall I think the question that the Raiders are going to be asking internally is, we think he can be like a top 10 quarterback,

can he elevate and become a top five quarterback? And, you know, what do you need to do around him to get him there? And the comp I, you know, the comp I've heard that I like the most is golf. You know, you hear some of the Matt Ryan, too. You know, can you, like, do you see yourself in five years paying somebody like that? And who knows what it's going to be, $75 million, $80 million a year? Life's good. Like, is he going to get to a second contract with,

you. So those are sorts of questions you're asking. He's a really good player. I think, you know, it's just, I think in an era now where we're seeing these quarterbacks get to the second contracts. And it's almost like if you see your own guy, you draft and develop and you have to pay him at the top of the market. So like, you know, what Jordan Love and Justin Herbert gets affects what Tua Tunga Volo gets. So now you got Tua on top of the market deal. And now that looks different once he's not in his rookie deal anymore and you can't put as much around him and now he doesn't look like the same player. These are all the sorts of arguments that like you're going to have to make on Fernando Mendoza if you're in that room and you're going to have to kind of play

devil's advocate with a lot of that stuff. Or does Tom Brady look at him and identify with him and say, you know, chip on his shoulder, Cal, you know, leaves Cal goes to Indiana. Like he's kind of got, you know, and again, DJ and McShay made this point, both of them made this point to me. Like, there's like a lot of like kind of parallels between him and Brady tall, accurate, sees the field well, all of that. So I know I gave you a lot there. Well, see, and I know where DJ and McShay come out from like a 20,000 foot view. And if I view it from the lens of like, I've lived in the bay for a long time, what Shanahan likes and now Kubiak's there, they, you know, the Cam Ward, the traits, Matt, I've been around

Andy Reed. They like traits. the Shanahan's accuracy, smarts, they're going to like Fernando Mendoza and do what I told you to do. Yeah, they like having the joystack. I think Fernando Mendoza would shine for a lot of the Shanahan type guys. Like I think now their offense isn't quite set up. They need some receivers. The running back, again, I'm despite that guy.

Disagreed with the value six overall for the little guy. I mean, there's a lot of pressure on him to be a really, really good player. But he is a talented player, showed some signs at the end. I think he fits that offense really, really well. I think that's fair. you know, and like he can move. And again, he's really accurate. He sees it fast.

He sees it well. Clutch plays, too, in big games. And, you know, I do think, like, if you look in, I think one of the biggest criticism we're here on him is, like, the amount of RPO's that Indiana ran. But. Top running team in the country, right? Yeah.

And you saw, but you saw some things like in big spots where he made big throws. You know, I mean, the Penn State game, I think, is probably the most obvious one. You know, but in the Ohio. Ohio State game. Like the throw he made, I think there was Charlie Becker down the sideline to put my guys away. Like I was in the stands for that one. He, I mean, that was a really, I mean, a high-end Ohio State defense with four guys who I think will be first-round picks in this year's draft and maybe more in the next couple drafts that he was going against and he was making big plays in the passing game down the stretch of that game. You do see it in spurts and it's just,

I think you have to trust that that's going to grow, and there's going to be more of that as you go. Did you watch a John Elway doc on Netflix? Those guys got hit in the 80s. It looked like a UFC fight. Yeah. And that, honestly, one of the most impressive things in Fernando Mendoza's career is the first play in the Ohio State game when he got hit like it was 1980. Oh, yeah. Two plays later he's back in the game.

It was Caden Curry, I think, hit him, right? I mean, he got clocked like the dude on the, like, Sarkin in the hockey game. His little brother came in. And, yeah, exactly. It ran one play and he came back. I could see Brady like, because that's the NFL. That's what Brady, and that I think is what Brady is going to look for. Like I know this.

Like I remember, you know, covering Brady when he was a younger player. And he changed over the years and sort of, there was a self-preservation to his game. But if you watched Brady when he was young, he took monster hits. And I remember talking to his coaches and, like, how they said, like, he gives the receivers the line. He gives them an extra second. He gives everything an extra second. Gives the, though, the linemen, an extra second to block. gives the play an extra second to develop, gives the receivers an extra second to get open,

because he's willing to take the hit. And that was Brady when he was young. Now, of course, it changed. I think after the ACL, like, there were, I think he realized, like, I'm not going to last going this way. But that's who Brady was when he was younger. It was one of the most important pieces of his game. And, I mean, I saw that hit. Like, it looked like.

I thought he was dead. I mean, honestly, I bet the stadium thought he was out for the game. Right. And their season was over. Right. I mean, I thought Ohio State at that point was going to win 45 to nothing. You know what I mean? Obviously, I was mistaken on that one. But his toughness, I mean, that's a huge part. I think it's the most underrated part of the quarterback. Even today, you don't get hit is you've still got to be tough.

And he is. And speaking of tough, the biggest story with the Raiders is Max. And out of the street, the buzz, and no spy techs, they know, and clearly love that. Like, he represents everything you'd want to play. He's probably one of the most well-respected player by every coach in the NFL. Right. But how do they not? I mean, he's 28, 29, had some injuries. I heard you talking about it last week. Like, you know, his market's still pretty,

I think you get two first round picks because the amount of teams that would be bidding on them. Yeah, I mean, and he's under contract. I think the question with him, so most of the guys who've been traded for two first round picks have been, like, smack in the middle of the prime of their careers. So Max is a little different to that. It costs a lot, though, but Max.

Max is going to be 29, right? Max has finished the last three years injured. It doesn't mean he's injury prone, but facts are the facts. He's finished the last three years injured. So that's a piece of it too. You know, and it's how does he project going forward? Now, the upshot of it is his contract is tradable, and his contract gives his new team control.

And if he's not, like, going to be pounding the table for a contract adjustment, if he's happy to go with his existing contract somewhere else, well, then, you know, you could look at it and say, we'll get three good years out of him out of him. We'll be able to get at least three good years. out of them. So I don't know about two first round picks, but, like, and the only thing that gives me pause there, John, is the age piece of it. And it's just historically you look at it, and the Kaleo Max, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the

ones, those things happen. The difference, though, is with those guys, you, obviously had to trade the two first round picks, but then you had to give them historic extensions. Yeah. Right. This is different. Yeah. That makes a different. You got, might have to, might think with the two first round picks, it's like a house seven people want to buy it. I think all the good teams would be interested in Max Crosby. So you get three, like how many people were really bidding for Micah because he had to sign the contract. Right. Well, if it's, it's kind of a unique deal. I mean, and like part of that's sliding too and that like because this like some of those deals like the Cleo Mac deal, the Michael Parsons deal, those happen in training camp. Yeah, true.

So you don't know what that first round pick is. Now like I think the two Super Bowl teams will be involved if he becomes available. 100%. And. those two teams have the 31st and 30 second picks. That means, like, they're not going to get away with, like, just get, like, whereas if you have the 20th pick or you have the 15th pick, then obviously that's going to change the value. And the fact that we know where those picks are versus, like, some of these guys that got traded during training camp,

where a lot of its guesswork, you know, changes the equation too. Less than Sean have the 13th pick because Atlanta, they've been known to do some crazy stuff. Do you think Max gets traded? I don't I don't know just because I know Max is really principal

I know he's got the loyalty to Mark Davis the loyalty to the Raiders the desire to be a one team guy I also know like he had a good conversation with Clint Kubiak my question like the Tom Brady Alex Guerrero

like that whole part of it can they get that ironed out can they get that like because I do think that there was a part of it for Max, and this is like just me talking, but like, I think for Max, like a big piece of this is like, what does he have to compete for if he hasn't been competing for championships, which the team hasn't been good enough for him to compete for championships? All pros, statistical benchmarks, being able to say, like, I answer the

bell every week for my teammates. And I think like last year, he kind of felt like that was taken away from him, you know? And is he going to hold up? on to that. I don't, that's the part that's really hard to project. Like how long does he hold on to that? And then I think the other piece of it too is like we're here. These teams are talking to each other. Like does what people are whispering to the Raiders affect it too? You know what I mean? Like where if the Raiders don't think the market is as hot as people think for him, think it'll be for him, like does that affect their willingness to go back in and try to mend fences? One takeaway I had from yesterday is I think most people casually think, oh, they don't like AJ Brown.

He's a big pain. I think the Eagles internally like A.J. Brown. I think the players like him. The coaches like them. The view on the outside is different, I think, than the inside. I just thought, like, well, he's older, makes a lot of money. They have to give him away for a third. Like, I actually don't think they're just giving him away.

Like, I came away. Like, I think this A.J. Brown thinks a little more complicated than people just assume. Is that fair? Yeah. I mean, I think it's, look, they've got some cap issues coming down the pike. That's true. And they've got some things that they're going to have to clean up. And, you know, the way you clean those things up is you move older players off the roster

and get really young players on the roster. And so. And he's done that over the last couple years. Yeah. And I think that that part of it can't be ignored. That it's, well, like if somebody's offering a first round pick and something else for him, which I don't know it will be offered at this point because I do think he's, I think he's lost his step. Like, I think he's still a really good player, but I think he's lost his step.

But if somebody comes to you with the first round pick and say a fourth round pick or whatever, that's two players that are going to be on your roster for cheap, and you have to take the cap hit. But I think that stuff can be overblown sometimes, too, just in that, well, you're going to have to take this cap hit. It's like, that's not disappearing if you hang on to him. Like, that's going to, like, that mortgaged money that's sitting there on your, that's eventually going to hit.

Like, so one way or the other, you're going to have to account for it at some point. Makes it interesting. I'm with you. I think he's a good guy who's liked in the locker room, all of that. Like, I think Jalen Hertz has more problems in that regard than A.J. Brown does. You know, I think that's one where how he can kind of sit back, and I don't think he needs to shop him. I think people will naturally come to him, and then he can assess it from there.

The team in your backyard, do you think they were kind of rattled by how the Super Bowl went? Or is it one of those, it turns out. Well, I think if you look at the way that they handle the trade deadline, they were playing really well. And I still think that there was a caution. We're not there yet. And a realistic look at the roster and like looking at it and saying, well, this is great and we're doing awesome. But is this really like the roster that we'll be able to sustain for the next five years? And the reality of it is at a receiver they're relying on Stefan Diggs and Matt Collins.

At a tight end, they're relying on. Hunter Henry and Austin Hooper. Their right tackles, Morgan Moses. They're older in a bunch of positions. And I think there's a little bit of like a cautionary tale there to some degree with the commanders last year where the commanders got old in a hurry. Fast.

And like it went from, all right, this stuff's all working out. Now we're all in. We're trading for Latimore. We're trading for Devo. We're trading for Tunsel. They got old. And what happens to teams that get old. They get hurt.

They get hurt. They get hurt. And so now you've got the injuries. Now they're getting beat up. And now you look at it, and I think they've only got five picks. So they're going to have to move around to create. The Texans have their second round pick. Right.

Pick 37. Right. Right. So you're looking at all of these moving pieces here. And, you know, so I think for the Patriots, they have sort of taken this approach. We're staying in the course. And we're going to keep building. And that doesn't mean they wouldn't take advantage of an opportunity, like a Max Crosby.

I think they would. But I believe they've got 11 picks. and I think the intention has been like to build something sustainable. And I think they also recognize that there are a few of those key positions where they're already kind of naturally older and they're going to need younger players soon. A couple quick newsies questions before you get out of here. The news on Davis Webb yesterday from the outside, I know you're pretty dialed in on this. It looks like fire's Lombardi, he maybe could have got the Cardinals or one of those type jobs.

He had to like promise him the play calling to keep him around. Is that a fair assessment of that situation? Yeah, I think, I mean, I think it wasn't as Andrew Siciliano trips over its credential there somehow. Yeah. Held it together. I guess if I was doing the Olympics for the last three weeks, I'd be worn out too. Yeah, so I think, you know. Were you surprised by that?

Did you know that was coming? Had you heard that? I would say it wasn't, I don't think it was just the head coaching situations. It was also like the Giants that kicked tires on him as a coordinator, the Ravens had kicked tires. on them as a coordinator and so they were going to lose them i think what's fascinating about it is you just you you look at it and where they're at now and like it's not like sean peyton failed as a coordinator failed as a play caller and that's been his calling card for a quarter century so i think it shows you how he values davis webb on his staff how maybe bow necks values davis web on his staff

because you really look at that and it's like that's not an answer for the next 10 years if Davis Webb does a good job. He's going to be gone, you know? And so now what do you do? Do you go back to Sean calling the plays? I think it's fascinating from that standpoint in that it's not a guy who is failing as a play caller. He's one of the best play callers of his generation. It's something he's done has been central to his job for 25 years,

like going all the way back to the Giants, you know, when I was in college. And the, you turn it over to a guy who, who, I mean, realistically, if he does a good job, is going to put you in a position where you're going to be looking for another play caller, whether it's Sean or somebody else in a year or two. Well, obviously, Tomlin next year will be in the mix. He's going to be one of the main candidates, if he wants to. Who knows?

Maybe he's just so rich and over it all and just goes to TV store. I watch some of the Ravens Press conference. Anthony Weaver. I was like, God, this guy sounds like a head coach. Yeah, he does. But Davis Webb, it feels like it's going to have a ton of momentum if the Broncos are good to be one of the top candidates. Yeah, I think he was squarely in it.

I'd say he was the runner-up for the Raiders show. not saying that Clint wouldn't have gotten it if Davis hadn't pulled his name out, but I know he was a really strong candidate there. Philip Rivers? Davis. No, I'm saying, but it's Philip Rivers, another guy candidate for next year? So I'm going to be interested to see if Philip Rivers goes to Nancy State because his son just committed there.

And I think Philip has a desire to eventually coach in the NFL. I know there were only a few teams he was willing to listen to, he was willing to kind of go out there for, and the reason why, and it's not like an arrogance or anything like that. I think it's really important for him to finish coaching his son. And I remember in conversation with him, and this is probably when Gunner was 11 or 12 years old, and he was still playing for the Chargers.

And he said to me, and I asked him the retirement question, and he basically said to me, he was like, well, I am on a timeline here. He's like, my dad coach me in high school. I want to coach Gunner. I want to coach my son's plural. I want to have that experience that my dad had. I want them to have the experience that I had.

And so I think, like, the ability to coach his son, his senior year in high school, is important. And I do wonder, with his son now committed to NC State, is that where he winds up? And even if NC State were to make a change after this year, like, that's one to watch where it's like, does he look at it and say, I'm going to go be the head coach at NC State for the next four, five years? then coach my son, maybe coach both my sons through that, and then go to the NFL. I think it's an interesting thing. Schefter puts out the Trent Williams thing about 30 minutes before John gets up on the podium. I would imagine, I don't know if the 49ers would want that out.

So maybe Trent, I mean, the going back and forth there, what do you make of that situation? I think just in the middle of a negotiation. I mean, I'm like, I think they've been through this with Trent so many times now. they've obviously got a lot of experience with the uncomfortable contract negotiations. I think it was a consecutive summers where it was like Bosa. Happens every year.

It was Debo, Bosa, and Iyuk, right? Like in three consecutive off-season. So they've dealt with these situations before. They've dealt with them with Trent specifically. I just think he's too freaking important. I would argue he might be the most indispensable player in that team including the quarterback. And I think Brock's a really good player.

Yeah. You know, but I think he makes a decent offensive line look better than it is. Like, he's that good to left tackle. And so I think he knows it. And I think, you know, there's every year now, I think you're kind of in that position where it's like, okay, like, what are we need to do to get him back? And I would think, I know how much Kyle thinks of him. I would think they're going to do everything they can to get him back. Last but not least, the Sam Darnold situation, the impact that had on Minnesota, how cool of a genuine human interest story he has.

winning. It had a lot of ripple effects throughout the league. I mean, you've been covering the league a long time. You ever seen a, like, basically in the dirt? It had an Alex Smith vibe, but Alex Smith never won that many playoff games, let alone win the Super Bowl. I mean, I just don't remember any guy that was like universally liked. It's not like kind of an A-hole, you know. No, everyone loved them. You go back to the Jets people. You go back to the Panthers. Like, everyone loves Sam Darnel. Did that have lasting impacts on the Minnesota situation? Is that overblown. Yeah, I mean, I think one thing you look at, again, like I talked about earlier, like the almost like automatic you have to pay. If you draft and develop a quarterback and it works out,

you almost have to pay them at the top end of the market. There's no like B level quarterback contract. I think some teams look at like what happened with Sam and it's like, well, wait a second, they got them at like half of what DAC costs, right? So DAC is at 60. They got Sam after that at 30. And why? Because he played really well for Minnesota. Why? Why? Because he played really well for Minnesota. did they get him at that rate? Is it just because of perception? Is it just because he's not the former first round pick anymore because he's changed teams? And so I think there's that element of it, you know, what Baker, what Tampa wound up getting Baker for. We'll see what happens with Daniel Jones in Indianapolis. But I do think like there's, if I'm a team, the way I'm looking at it,

and having, I think some teams are thinking this way. You know, it's more like, do I feel like I have to take a quarterback in the first round of the draft, or if I'm 80% of the way there in a guy, but I maybe don't think he's going to be great. Am I better off having a high-end, high-end, high-end bridge, like a former first-round pick come in and be that guy? I actually think maybe the best example of it was Alex Smith. I agree. Because when Andy Reid went and got Alex Smith, if you remember, they had the first overall

pick that year, 13. And I remember there were people who thought, like, oh, they're going to take Gino-Smith. E.J. Manuel was the only first first. on quarterback that year. If they had forced it, what that would have looked like instead of just taking Eric Fisher and then having Alex Smith. And what Alex Smith allowed for them was, Alex Smith gave you a good level of quarterback play. You're a playoff team. It allowed you to establish a program. You were building your roster up. And then you got to the point eventually where it was like you could just survey it. You weren't forced into a single year where it's like,

yeah, we have to get them now. It was like, all right, we don't like this year's, we don't like, oh, that guy right there, my home. It's like, let's keep an eye on him. It, It gave them the flexibility to kind of cherry pick when they were going to go get their franchise quarterback. And I think there's a lot of power in that. I think the worst place you can be in is like your pigeonhole into a single year. Like if you're a team that needs a quarterback now and you don't have the first pick, you're not the Raiders. I mean, what do you do? Malik Willis?

Yeah, I mean, what do you do? And like that's the thing is like if you have like that bridge, you're not forced into that sort of position. Okay, last question. I know you like big picture league questions. Yeah. I was talking to Howie yesterday, just about how much this event has changed. And then last night had a few Tito sodas with some GMs, and they said every interview, 90% of the kids are like, yeah, not really going to work out, not going to do anything. And they're just like the league.

And again, they're not even mad at it. But, you know, you've talked about moving this event. This event's importance for the interviews and obviously the coaches being here. The league likes all that stuff. But is the combine going to exist in like 10 years? I don't know. I think it will, but like I don't know what form it's going to exist in. I think, to some degree, the league shot itself in the foot a little bit,

if they had just left this for what it was and stopped trying to turn it into something it's not, you know, then I think you probably still have a really good thing here. I think with the element of just commodifying everything and like trying to, like, hey, how do we turn this new event or that new event? How do we, like, the players have agency now. You know what I mean? Like, and players are coming into the league, like, these guys have already made money. You know what I mean?

Like, so, like, how's a guy like that going to think? Well, his, I think Marvin Harrison, you know, a couple of years ago was the turning point. Marvin Harrison came in and he was in the first class of high school athletes to go into college and be NIL as true freshmen, right? And Caleb was in that group. And high NIL. Right, right. And high NIL. And so he came into it.

And for three years now, he had been thinking about things through that lens. it's like, look what I've done the last two years. Why am I going to go work out? Like, all I can do is hurt myself there. You know, why would I not want to do it in the most comfortable environment? Where is the proof that there's something? And at the time, he's a top five picks. So it's like, don't I have a lot more to lose than I have to gain?

Or run slow. So, yeah, I mean, like, like, I have way more to lose than I have to gain. Like, the best thing I can do is just do everything in the most comfortable environment and confirm what people think of me and then be done with it. And so, like, I think it's some of that stuff, what you're talking about is a result of the players having more of a business mindset and having been through that,

like viewing themselves as like, no, I'm a commodity too, and I have to treat my, I have to handle myself that way. And so, you know, I think it's looking at all these little things as part of the process with more scrutiny. And again, like, it's not going to be the same for a guy who's going in the top 10

versus a fourth round. A fourth round pick should be doing everything here. The fourth round pick, all 32 teams are here. This is my chance. You know, if I think I'm going to do well in the drills, do it here, shows how competitive I am. If you're a top 10 pick, what motivation do you have? Other than like being a quote-unquote competitor, like that's really it, you know? One more quick league one, the international series. I've been saying forever, you've talked a lot about this. I think in a couple of years the league is going to sell like a 10, 15 game package. It's like Thursday night all over the Australia thing. Sunday morning thing.

Australia is cool. And I get it. They love sports and it'll do cool. They got to fly like 18 hours to Australia and I get it. It's week one. It does feel like Roger, whenever he, like one of his lasting impacts, his last hurrah of like growing the league finance.

He thinks they're going international. Yeah. I mean, they've already gone, but like, we are going to be more of an international sport. Can that even work? Yes. I think they see. I mean, I think they see, if you look at like,

I would urge people, look at like the Premier League viewership numbers. 750 million people watch that game. Dwarf, like a regular season game, dwarf the NFL. And like I think that's what they're looking at, right? Like, some of these teams have worked with some of the soccer teams. There's cross-ownership there. The, you know, Jedd, of course, is one.

Obviously, Stan Cronky owns Arsenal. The Glazers in Tampa, they own Manchester United. So I think it got to a put early in Rogers tenure. This is a big picture thing. early in Rogers tenure. So you're talking, like, his first year's 06, 08, 09, 10. They sort of came to the conclusion, like, we're killing it domestically. So we can't grow up anymore, so we have to grow out.

And that meant growing, adding inventory. How do you add inventory? You go back to L.A. with two teams. You add all of these international markets. You go to 17 games. You expand the playoffs. Like Thursday Night Football. All that is.

Thursday Night Football. All that is is adding inventory for people to buy from them. And so, like, if this commissioner's charge, if Roger Goodell is charged was $25 billion in annual revenue, and it looks like he's going to get there. Yeah, he is. Like, the way to do it was never sit on our hands and, like, do things the way they've always done, which was plenty lucrative. Yeah.

If his charge was for the new breed of owners was, no, like, you go and operate like a Fortune 500, company, you go and operate like one of the big tech companies, this is the way to do it. In five years, Brian Rollap will take over a $50 billion industry. We'll see, we'll see. Thanks, Albert. All right, thanks, John. Today's show is brought to you by our presenting sponsor Hard Rock Bet, Florida's Sportsbook.

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So they know their basketball. Hard Rock Bet app is the only legal sportsbook whenever you're in Florida. So if you live in Arizona, Ohio, New Jersey, Indiana, Tennessee, Virginia, Illinois, Colorado, and Michigan, coming to states near you as well. If you haven't signed up for Hard Rock Bet yet, there's never been a better time. New sign-ups can double their winnings on their first 10 bets. Max 50 bucks.

That's right. If you would have won 100 bucks on your bet, you make $200. Plus, Hard Rock Bet offers new promos daily. Download the Hard Rock Bet app and make your first deposit today. Payable and bonus bets, not a cash offer, offered by Seminole Tribe of Florida in Florida, offered by Seminole Hard Rock Digital LLC and all

other states. You must be 21 plus and physically present in Arizona, Colorado, Florida, Illinois, Indiana, Jersey, Ohio, Tennessee, and Virginia to play. Terms and conditions apply. Concerned about gambling in Florida, call 1833 playwise. In Indiana, if you or someone you know has a gambling problem and wants help, call 1-800-9 with it. Gambling problem, call 1-800-gambler. Arizona-com. Colorado, Illinois, New Jersey, Ohio, Tennessee, Virginia. Hey, it's us, the Jonas Brothers, and guess what? We have some big news. What's the news, name?

Huge news. We created our own podcast called, Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts throughout there. But this one's extra special.

So how do we actually come up with a name, Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it. And, well, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band before Jonas Brothers. This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast, people could call in and say, hey, Jonas.

And then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some

retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear.

The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports Slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to Sports Slice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slical Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Okay, let's dive into my main. man, Greg CoSell. Okay, here with Greg

CoSell, as Colin likes to say, a football meat sandwich. And I've been talking to you over the last couple days. We've got a lot going on. How many combines is this for you, do you think? My first one was 1999. It's been a while. Been a while. 1999, there might have been like three national writers that were at the combine. That was it. Really pretty great. I was talking someone the other day, football, I mean, it's kind of sad. I mean, we still love the games and watch the games. You break them all down.

it's become a lot of this. I mean, it's a television show. Oh, it's an event. Yeah. It's an event. As much as it is the game. And this thing is a, look at all these digital shows. I know.

That's the one thing you notice. It's not just, no radio shows. These are digital shows. I know. That means they've got to see my face. That's tough. Where do we start? The draft class.

Right. The quarterback. Fernando Mendoza, thoughts? Well, you know, it's funny. Obviously, I feel like the Super Bowl was just played yesterday. So I'm just getting started, although what I normally do, John, is I'd get a baseline. Every summer I'll watch maybe 120 guys that are likely to be in the draft the next year. You know, you know how it is 20, 25 guys dropped out for whatever reason.

But at least I get a baseline of guys. So right now I'm just getting into it because of my NFL work. I can't really start until maybe mid to late January. So I've done Mendoza in detail. You know, and it's an interesting study, and you know, this because you know this is what you do too. It's an interesting quarterback study because we've reached a point where people just say a quarterback has great traits because he can throw it hard and he can run around. And then I keep thinking to myself that's not really the key to playing quarterback

in the NFL. So when people look at Mendoza, they don't see a guy that necessarily has a hose and can run around. So they're a little uncertain as to how he fits into being a quarterback prospect, but he kind of knows how to play the position. You know, to me, quarterback, and I was very fortunate in my career, maybe the best thing that ever happened in my career, was Bill Walsh taught me the quarterback position. So when I watch quarterbacks, I think about the subtlety of it, the detail, the nuance, the discipline craft element of it.

And, well, I'm not going to sit here in St. Mendoza's a perfect prospect, but he plays it more like that than the guys who just, you know, have the hose and run around. And I'm not sure a lot of people really understand that that is a really important part of playing quarterback consistently at the NFL level. I think Bill Walsh would have like Fernando Mendoza? Yeah, I think he would have. Can you go back to the Bill Walsh relationship, how that started? Yeah, oh, yeah.

I've never heard that. I got assigned, you know, back in the day, you know, working at NFL films and I did a lot more documentary-type films. And I got assigned to do a Bill Walsh project. and my boss at the time said, you know, we want you to do it because, you know, you love football and you go out and, you know, meet Bill Walsh. And, you know, so I went out and. What year's this? Oh, he was not coaching in the NFL.

So early 90s maybe? Early 90s maybe, yeah. That sounds about right. So I go out and do, you know, do what I'm doing. In fact, I remember what we did. I went out and I brought. But film, it wasn't coaching tape because we didn't have it, but film of like 20 quarterbacks, going back to like Johnny Unitas.

And basically it was just Bill put the camera on, he's watching, you know, on a big screen, all these quarterbacks, maybe 20 quarterbacks, and just commenting on them, you know, just let him go, free form. So we're done with it, and I don't know, for whatever reason he must have saw something. something in me or like me and he basically said you know hey let's go out to lunch and I'm like talking to me you know and obviously I've got a cameraman there a sound man from films and the whole deal you know and he and I just went out to lunch and I mean I didn't have much to say he's just talking and I'm listening but that

happened like four or five times in my career where I was just with Bill Walsh like that and it just I mean what I learned so when I watch quarterbacks I think about doing it the right way on every play. I don't think in terms of, man, he can run around. Now, we know the games evolved and changed and, you know, defenses have gotten a little more detail, a lot more detail. They do a lot of different, you know, we know all that. So the element of movement can be a factor, you know, but obviously you can be great without it. I mean, look at Tom Brady, you know, he didn't have to run around to be great. But the point is, is that that's what I think about

when I watch quarterbacks. I think about playing the position the absolute right way on every snap. You know, you know this. Coaches don't roll the ball out and say, hey, let's run around today and see what happens. You know, everything is detailed. I think if we, when I, Super Bowl week, we went to this like event for the 1989 49ers. Right. And on stage, it was Joe, Ronnie, Jonathan Taylor, who's actually sneaky, very underrated. The place he would make, Jonathan Taylor could fly. Harris Barton. You're talking, no, you're talking about the receiver, John Taylor. John Taylor. John Taylor. Yeah, yeah.

And he made some plays. They kept talking like, this guy's a little. Those 29-9-yard touchdowns against the Rams. Just because he played with Jerry Rice, got overshadowed a little bit. You're watching him fly. You're like, this guy in this league today.

I know, I know. Incredible. But I think let's just take like three of the best five quarterbacks all the time. Joe, Tom, Peyton. They couldn't. Joe was much more athletic than those guys. Joe had balletic feet, but he wasn't a run-around guy.

Yeah, it was accuracy, timing, understanding, knowing like, it's okay to dump the ball. It's the quarterback position. Exactly. Yeah. Has that been lost, do you think, in the NFL a little bit? I don't think it's been lost among coaches. I think it's been lost the way that media people and fans talk about it.

But it's not lost amongst coaches. So, like, the two Super Bowl is that Patrick won a couple years ago, in those two years where their team wasn't as explosive, it's like the 19th team. I look because I was doing a segment, he had one turnover in those seven playoff games. I bet if you went back and watched, he was closer to. a game manager and they hate that term, but just like managing the game, making sure I don't screw up. Right.

They beat the Ravens. They scored 17 points. Right. I bet Bill Walsh would have been like, that's the best that kid's ever played in those seven games playing. Not the bombs to Tyree Kill, right? But we love the bombs to Tyree Kill. Yeah, well, everybody loves that.

Yeah. But I'm just saying that's the position to win the game and the biggest games that are in the late 17 to 19. The efficiency of the position comes from executing the subtleties of the position, play in and play out. That's where the efficiency comes from. You know, and, you know, obviously, look, who thought, Walsh thought Montana was a great prospect, and not many others did at the time,

because he saw it a different way. You know, he saw, he wasn't worried about arm strength or what we now call today armed talent. You know, he wasn't worried about that. He was worried about the ability to play within timing, throw the ball accurately, and accurately meant precise ball location, not just, you know, where do you throw it?

Not just, oh, I'm throwing it to you, but where do you? You watch these documentaries on the Niners, he would like make him redo it if Joe or Steve was off by like a foot. It's funny you say that because one of the things I did with the Walsh of the times you would talk is we went out and he brought out after they'd retired Joe, Jerry Rice, and Roger Craig. And we're doing a piece, you know, I'm out there. And he's back coaching.

Like Montana would make a throw and you go, No, Joe, come on, we're doing that again. That ball, I mean, he was coaching him after, you know, they were all retired, you know. Like, what would Bill Walsh say about, like, Caleb Williams, who makes incredible plays in these biggest moments, but it's pretty inefficient a lot of these games? Right. He would work every single day on his lower half, because his lower half can be all over the places, you probably know. Yeah. And he would work every single day on that because, you know, he just misses too many routine throws.

He can make special plays. and obviously his arm in terms of the way the ball comes out of his hand is special, but he just misses too many routine throws. Yeah, to me, I would imagine Ben Johnson, the Bears, the layups, the basic stuff, because if he can do that, he can be a really good player. Right. Right. And that, to me, all off-season, the special down the, he can do that in his sleep.

It's like, hey, a wheel route, you got to hit this guy in stride. You know, and out, you've got to be on time. Because if he can do that, but can you coach that up? Right. It's a really hard balance. I talked to a coach yesterday. and, you know, because I'm always fascinated by how you coach the quarterbacks that have the ability to make special improvisational plays. Because on the one hand, you don't want to tell a guy never to do that.

But on the other hand, those guys tend to leave throws on the field because they will leave the pocket too early. Because that's just the way they feel innately. Russell Wilson started doing that. Yeah, yeah. Couldn't function. Now, his is a little different because of his size. Yeah, I could see. But even Mahomes, Josh Allen, those guys will.

leave throws on the field within the structure of that particular past design because for whatever reason, that's just who they are. So, you know, my guess is you don't want to tell them never to do that. But on the other hand, if, you know, these coaches, as you know, work a lot. And if they design it and it's there and it's clean, you want the guy to throw the ball. Do you think that's why some of those guys with the Walsh roots, even if it's indirect, like, you know, Shanahan or, you Andy didn't work for Walsh, but he worked for home group. You know, Alex Smith, you see the guys that Shanahan, like the Kubiaks, Mike Shanahan, who I don't think he worked for Walsh, but work for Seiford, which all connected.

They can be cool with Jake Plummer or, you know, they like Kirk Cousins. Like, they value things that go back to those roots and the core of their offense. As you probably know, the way it is, let's say, with Kyle Shanahan, who obviously is, you know, comes from his dad and comes down that tree. Maybe it's not the pure Bill Walsh, but it's, you know, more of that school, let's say. Yeah. For those coaches, the star is the play caller. You know, in Kyle's offense, he's the star.

He's the poster child of the team. Right. Whereas, let's say, a Josh McDaniel's offense, he's giving the quarterback all the answers to the test, and the quarterback has to figure out which answers apply based on a given play call and what he sees from the defense. Whereas with Kyle, that's not the case at all. He's the quarterback, as you know, the quarterback doesn't do anything.

He's not calling the protections. He's not changing plays. Now, granted, if he sees maybe an obvious blitz, maybe flip it or see it. Yeah, yeah. But he's not really doing a lot. You know that. Yeah.

The quarterback is the executor of the play caller's play. Kyle has said that he, and Cousins has talked about this, Cousins fought for it. He gave him the opportunity to do it. the next day, Cousins is like, that's crazy. I have like seven things on my plan. You take it back. Right, right, right.

And there's only so many Peyton Mannings or Brady's who can do it at that high of a little. Correct. And that's what makes the position so crazy. Like, let's just say you flip Drake May and Brock Purdy. I think Drake May'd probably be pretty good for Kyle, right? I would agree. But the Purdy thing, the way they're playing, it would not probably look very good, right? I bet Purdy could do it, you know, once he got, yeah.

But I just mean like, you carry the offense, you play. It's all on you. It would be a lot. Well, right now if Purdy all of a sudden was dropped into a, Josh McDaniel's offense, he'd be lost because that's not the way he's been coached to play the game. Yeah. What's your take on Purdy? Because he's a pretty polarizing player.

I know, and I don't know why. Walsh would have liked him. Yeah, I like Purdy. You know, again, you know, people like Liz and, you know, is he the top five? I don't get into that. I think he can execute Kyle's offense at a pretty high level. Yeah. And I think that's what the 49ers want.

You know, he can execute it at a pretty high level. I guess I didn't quite understand until I got here. Sean Mannion goes back to Oregon State. I mean, he's got like pro-style roots as a player as a coach. That's what they're implementing with the Eagles. So the idea you get rid of Stoutland, who's not that type of run game guy, that they are going to be a version of the Kyle Shanahan offense with Jalen Hertz. Is that the way you take it as well?

That's what it sure seems like because of the people they brought in to coach on offense. So in their mind, they must believe that Jalen Hertz can do it. I'm not going to sit here and say he can or can. You know, they think he can. I would say that the way Jalen has played up to this point in his career, that's not stylistically how he's played. You know, he hasn't been a true timing rhythm guy. So they must feel he can do it because that's what they've committed to. That's what their offense is going to be. Now, the question is, did they bring did they change that because of the run game? Because that run game in that offense is really good.

Now you're going to see a lot more motions. You're going to see a lot more pre-snap movement. You're going to see a lot of things that help the run game because you know that pre-snap movement and motions really help the run game as well. In many ways, they help the run game even more. What did you see when you were breaking down Jalen this year the struggles came from?

I mean, I don't know if it ended up this way, but at one point in time in December, they led the league in three-and-outs. I know. That's embarrassing. I know. That can't happen, not with those players. You know, I don't think to me Jaylen was any different, you know, than he's always been. I mean, you know, keep in mind, when they won the Super Bowl, there were nine or ten games that year where he didn't throw for 200 yards.

They're not a passing team. I mean, they had the historic running season by Barclay and the number one defense in the league, and Jalen never turned it over, and they were phenomenal on fourth down. So they were a sense of four-down offense. got past midfield and it became fourth or let's say four and less three and less they were going for it every time and they would convert because that's where jalen's mobility became a huge factor even if he didn't run just you know getting him out of the pocket scrambling around yeah yeah yeah you know so you know they were not a passing team so i didn't i don't think he was necessarily any different

their run game was terrible relatively speaking their o line was bad um so you know the question becomes, can Jalen Hertz? And this is a tough question because the reality is, and this is the answer you get, and you can't argue it, is they've been in two of the last four Super Bowls. He's played well in both. He was the MVP in one. And, you know, so when people say that, what do you say?

Nothing. Right. I got a ring, and I got a lot of money. Exactly. And I'm the starter. Right. What do you say? But you know the Philly and I know Howie.

Yeah. They like winning games now. Right. A couple years ago. Right. And it's like, can he win games? You look in that conference. Well, that's why they made the change.

Obviously, they think that this change will be positive. You can't lose that Niner team. Sala rolled out, me, you, and seven of us. I know, I know. That's got to be one of the worst losses in Eagles history. When you look at the talent gap in the game. I would agree. And I'm sure that's why major changes were made.

So to me, like, specifically with him, he's a dual threat quarterback who no longer wants to run. it seems so. Yeah, I mean, again, we're not in the building. I don't know if he tells the coaches. I'm just saying when you watch him, they don't call run plays as much anymore. The Niners could have been gashed by. He's a great runner. Like his, I've always said, I thought he was going to be a running back out of college because I thought he was a bad college. Right, right, right, right. But I thought like, this guy could be like Frank Gore because his natural feel. Right. He's not like a Lamar speed guy, but he clearly just, I don't really want to do it.

They had one run in that Niners game. I think they were called back. Like, you could do this every play for like 30 yards. Yeah. And by the way, in 2022, when they went to the Super Bowl and lost to the Chiefs, that run stuff, the design run game was a huge part of their offense. Huge part. But again, you know, I don't know. I don't know if he tells the coaches I don't want to run. I don't know the answer to that. But it'll be, that's going to be one of the most interesting things to watch is how that offense works, you know, which is obviously a totally new offense. Today's show is brought to you by our presenting sponsor Hard Rock Bet, Florida's Sportsbook. I know it's tough when no football makes me sad. But like the song says, I bet I will survive. With Hard Rock Bet, there's always something every single night.

Hoops, hockey, so much more. Plus, all the great same game parlay, live betting, and player prop options you're used to. And did you know the Hard Rock Bet is the official sports fitting partner, the Miami Heat, and the Orlando Magic? So they know their basketball. Hard Rock Bet app is the only legal sportsbook whenever you're in Florida. So if you live in Arizona, Ohio, New Jersey, Indiana, Tennessee, Virginia, Illinois, Colorado, and Michigan,

coming to states near you as well. If you haven't signed up for Hard Rock Bet yet, there's never been a better time. New signups can double their winnings on their first 10 bets. Max 50 bucks. That's right. If you would have won 100 bucks on your bet, you make $200.

plus Hard Rock Bet offers new promos daily. Download the Hard Rock Bet app and make your first deposit today. Payable and bonus bets, not a cash offer, offered by Seminole Tribe of Florida in Florida, offered by Seminole Hard Rock Digital LLC in all other states. You must be 21 plus and physically present in Arizona, Colorado, Florida, Illinois, Indiana, Jersey, Ohio, Tennessee, and Virginia to play. Terms and conditions apply. Concerned about gambling in Florida. call 1-8-33-play-wise. In Indiana, if you are someone you know has a gambling problem and wants help, call 1-800-9 with it.

Gambling problem, call 1-800 gambler. Arizona, Colorado, Illinois, New Jersey, Ohio, Tennessee, Virginia. Hey, it's us, the Jonas brothers, and guess what? We have some big news. What's the news, name? Huge news. We created our own podcast called, Hey, Jonas. We invented a podcast?

Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts throughout there. But this one's extra special. So how do we actually come up with a name, Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it.

Oh, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band. Before Jonas Brothers was... This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast, where people could call in and say, hey, Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas,

and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends.

Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman, Help make you funnier. This week, my guest, S&L's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise.

Breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaders to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports slice brings you closer to the action. with stories told by the people who live them.

Listen to SportsSlice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slicelife-Life 12 and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. You know, for a long time, I remember, like, when I first got in the NFL in like 2010-11, people were like, that knew, were like, Philip Rivers,

one of the best quarterbacks in the league. I love Philip Rivers. You know, and anytime, and again, this gets back to the Jalen things, like, well, I got a ring. I'm one of the best players. Like, well, this guy, people think this guy's better. Right?

We all kind of think, you know, Mahomes, even though he didn't play that well last year. Right, right. But his resume speaks for himself. No question. Lamar and Josh's resume speak for themselves. Herbert's a pretty polarizing player because of the playoff games, I don't know where you stand. I mean, I think he can play for my team any day of the week. Oh, I agree with you.

And I think most people in the league would tell you that he's incredibly gifted and then he's a really good player. You know, look, this year, I mean, he played behind arguably the worst offensive line of football. I mean, they were playing backups to backers. to backups. I mean, you know, so. And he had a broken hand. I know. So we'll see. I mean, but yeah, he's, you talk to people in the league. They don't have any issue with Justin Herbert. I think one guy who's really impressed me the last couple years, and McCarthy deserves credit

for this is, again, another guy playoffs, he had a three-year stretch where he just, two of the games against the night, which he was not good. But Dax really become a really good player. Yeah, yeah. And if they do a good enough job, like if the version of he's at right now was on some of those teams like three years ago, right? They would be a major factor. Again, if he just played one of the play. I thought the year they lost the Niners in the second round, if he had just played like he had been playing,

they could have won the Super Bowl. Their defense was awesome. I've been impressed with Dax's, like, growth as a player. But the point is, is what you're talking about, is what we were talking about initially about the quarterback position. Because Dack is, well, he's not a statue. He's a pocket quarterback now. He doesn't move like he used to.

No. So, I mean, why is he become a really good quarterback? Because he executes the, you know, the nuances of the position. he plays the position at a high level from the pocket. I mean, it's... Like Bill Walsh would like this version of DAC. Without question, without question. You know, it's...

And as you know, in college now, Mendoza is a little bit of an aberration, but college is not sending a lot of, like, true pocket quarterbacks to the NFL. No. Because, you know, Mendoza, and maybe this is an easy comparison, and it's not an exact one,

but Mendoza would be more like the Jared Goss of the world. He's not a runaround guy. Now, can he run in a straight line if he has to? Yeah, but he's not a playmaker. He's not like Russell Wilson, Deshawn Watson. No, he's not a playmaker, yeah. My question is, not that long ago, you just looked around the league, Eli Manning, Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Carson Palmer, they all kind of look the same, you know, 6-4 to 6-6. Yeah. Where did that human being go? I know. Because he's not playing college or high school football. No, because... But they have to still exist on this planet. It's a... Because what's happened now is... It's...

It's like, look, I'm older than you. So when I grew up in my formative years, and let's say the late 60s, early 70s, the two biggest sports in America were baseball and boxing. So where did the best athlete in baseball play? Shortstop. So now what's happening is the best athlete is playing quarterback. So now you're getting guys that are great athletes

so they can run, they can move, maybe they have big arms. I mean, I would think a good example of that. You follow college football, right? Yeah. Would probably be the Texas A&M kid. Yeah, Marcel Reel. Yeah. You know, really good athlete, pretty explosive mover, big arm. You know, I haven't studied him. I don't know if he's a good quarterback or not.

But, I mean, those are the kinds of players that now have become quarterbacks. And those guys, because they can run, you know, teams want to win. So whether you're in high school or college, the coach wants to win. So they use what he has, which is the ability to move and run. I think I read an article from like Bruce Feldman, coaches, because now we, get a lot because the money is so big in college. Coach has kind of bounced back and forth. And one thing I think I read is, you know, why some guys, they bounce from the NFL to college and it's a little difficult for them because in the pros, as a defensive coordinator, you defend

the running back and the past game. But in college, you defend the running quarterback, the running back, and the past game. It's a huge element of the, which. Well, and don't forget to. Lamar Jackson, like five years. Most people don't run that level offense in the NFL. The other thing about college, which makes it different. and you know this is the hash marks. The wide side of the field in college is like the Grand Canyon. Yeah, it's big. So, I mean, you can do a lot of things to the wide side of the field

that are incredibly difficult to defend. There's just too much space. Yeah. The NFL's not like that. No, it's not. It's tighter. Yeah. Before I get you out of here, this draft class, I mean, you watch general amount,

especially the tough guys. Doesn't feel like a, woo. No. Not a lot of Penae soles, Jamar Chases, Joe Alts. No, no. And other non-quarterback. I think like with the receipt. Are the chiefs at nine going to feel pretty good?

They're going to get as good of a player as a team at four? Like, what's the difference? My point is that it's not like there is like, oh, Joe Alt goes and there's a huge drop. What's the difference? You know how the draft works. Normally, there's probably in a normal year 15 to 18 players that have true first-round grades. Yeah. I would bet this year there's 10.

Yeah. And I think the receiver group, I've done 12 receivers, I'm done with them. I would bet that those 12 receivers, I'm not done with receivers, I've done with those 12. I would bet that those 12 are going to be in the eye of the beholder. It depends on the guy and how you think he fits in your scheme. Because I don't think there's a receiver, and this is what I feel, based on the tape study of these 12 guys. I don't think there's a receiver. You're going to go, wow, I got to have that guy.

He can do anything. You're not big on the USC guy. Relative to where you see him. Yeah, I mean, again, you know. And I know what you mean by saying you're not big. Relative to the height. I think that he's going to probably be 5-11-195. He's not a super athlete.

He's not truly explosive. Yes, he's very competitive. The guy when I finished watching, who came to my mind, was Kalir Shakir. And, you know, I know some... Fourth round pick, I think. Who's been a fifth round out of Boise? Yeah. Who's been a nice player, by the way.

Really good. Yeah. and it's really good run after catch. And that's who Lemon kind of reminded me of. Now, I know some people are talking them up. I mean, I saw someone compare him to Malik Neighbors, and I'm thinking, come on. No.

Malik neighbors are different animals. Yeah, exactly. I mean, Malik neighbors, talent-wise. And by the way, the one thing about receivers, as you well know, is because teams throw the ball, and depending on the scheme, and a guy could come in the league and catch, Lemon could go to a team and catch 80 balls, and people say he's great.

And I have no problem with that. But just as an evaluation of the player and who he is, he's not a top 10 pick in a draft, but he might be. Well, you, Shakir, I was with some Lions people last night, not anyone for the team, but people that cover the team, and we were talking about Amman Ra. These guys were all not drafted in the first round. St. Brown was a fourth round pick.

D'Bo Samuel was a second round. You can get these physical guys historically later in the draft. It depends. Look, Amonra Saint Brown taking nothing away from him because I understand that as far as competitiveness and all that, he's off the charts. But he played in a Ben Johnson offense. That is maybe the best schemed pass game in the NFL in terms of, again, zone in terms of spacing of routes, how it all works together, you know, the details of how you put together a pass game. He's really good, though. Yeah. No, I'm saying Ben.

Ben is really good. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So again, I'm not taking anything away from Monras St. Brown. I'm not with him every day. I mean, he's probably great in so many ways. But if you just look at, like, pure talent, you're not going to say that he's Jefferson or Chase. What about Puka?

Puka's a fascinating guy. He's big. He's physical. Have you ever seen a player like him? I mean, I guess on a certain level, and maybe I'm nuts, Debo, you know, at his best, was similar. Wouldn't you say similar?

Just because guys just fall off of him. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's like runs through you like Adrienne Peterson or something. But Puka, I mean, he's... Puga's a better route runner probably. Yeah, yeah, he's a fascinating guy. I mean, he's turned into a great, great receiver. I think the problem, and I'll get you out here on this,

on players like that, you know, to invest in how much receivers cost, how long is their shelf life? Right, right. Because you go, you look at some of the outside guys, You know, like, JSN, he can be able to play for a long time with his skill set. You look at Debo, it just ended pretty quickly. And, you know, Puka, in the dominant fashion, like, he's going to be able to maintain this for seven straight years? Like, I don't know.

I mean, don't forget, Puka, he's great, but, I mean, he's a physical player. That's what I'm saying. Yeah, I mean, he plays as you know what off. I know. How long can you maintain playing at 100% breaking tackles? I mean, the year he had the last couple years is like, Jesus. No, he's, he's better than I thought. He changed the Rams.

Yeah, he's better than I thought he'd be. I mean, no quite. He's probably better than pretty much everybody thought he'd be. Yeah, McVeigh included. Yeah, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. All right, Greg, I appreciate you, and enjoy the rest of Combine. All right, I appreciate it. Thanks. Thank you. The volume.

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