The Herd with Colin Cowherd - 3 & Out - Mahomes and his contract, The business of the NFL, Lamar is back at practice

Episode Date: July 30, 2024

John dives into the conversation surrounding Patrick Mahomes and his current contract with Kansas City after seeing other QB's sign contracts with a higher annual total, he also discusses the business of the NFL and how the money that the league makes doesn't have anything to do wit the NFL media, how Jerod Mayo has a conversation with Matthew Judon, and the latest news surrounding the NFL this week. Later, John answers your questions during this episode's mailbag segment. 6:58 - Mahomes and his contract 20:08 - The business of the NFL 27:48 - Mayo handling contract issues 31:48 - Other NFL news 39:27 - Tangent Tuesday  44:57 - Mailbag Follow John on Twitter, Instagram and YouTube for the latest. Check out Gametime - the fastest growing ticketing app in the US, and the official ticketing app of 3 & Out and GoLow -  for tickets to all of your favorite NFL, NBA, NHL, NCAA teams. Concert and comedy show tickets, too. Go to Gametime now to create an account, download the app and use code JOHN for $20 off your first purchase. #Volume #HerdSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform?

We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Clivert Taylor the 4th.

You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifers Show. This is a place for raw, unfills of conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to The Clifford show on the IHeard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok podcast network on TikTok.

On The Look Back at it podcast. From 1979, that was a big moment for me. 84 is big to me. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a year, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. With our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite authors. Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s.

84 was a wild. I mean, it was a wild year. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The volume. Not playing best ball at Draft Kings, you're missing out. Here's what you need to know. Draft King's best ball millionaire contest is their biggest fantasy contest ever.

We're talking 15 million guaranteed price pool with two. That's right, two millionaires being crowned for the first and second place. If you're set it and forget it type, then best ball is for you. No waiver wires, no roster management, bigger roster, so injuries won't end your season. Only the draft, and that's it. You're set for the year. 15 million prize pool. Still not convinced, check this out.

This year, Draft Kings is offering everyone a draft one, get one special. Your $20 entry fee scores you a bonus ticket. Get in on all the best ball action. Download the Draft Kings app and use the code John. That's code J-O-H-N for all customers who entered the NFL Best Ball 15-millionaire contest to get a bonus ticket and get a shot at being crowned one of the two millionaires only on Draft Kings. Gambling problem, call 1-800 gambler. In New York, call 87-8-8-Hopen-Y or text Hope-N-Y at 467-369.

In Connecticut, help is available for problem gambling. Call 888-78-7-77, or visit ccppg.org. 18 and over in most eligible states, but age varies by jurisdiction. Eligibility restrictions apply. One per customer. Enter the best ball $15 million contest by $9.24 to get one bonus entry. $20 entry fee required. Reward expires at contest lock on 9-524.

See terms at draftkings.com slash DFS. What is going on, everybody, John Middlecough, three and out podcast. That would be me, and that would be the show. Hopefully everyone's having a good week. Good start to the week. If you listen to this on Tuesday, hopefully you had a good Monday. And we're going to talk some football because Patrick Bohomes has some thoughts on getting passed in terms of contracts on paper.

But it is actually true when it comes to his bank account. The NFL wants coaches interviewed more because the TV partners do And they'll basically do whatever the partners do we'll talk about that As well as Gerard Mayo and some issues going on right now in New England As well as some other news and notes from around the league We had some guys get paid we had some guys get injured Which is the shittiest part about the off season or training camp when we have serious injuries And of course the mailback at John

Middlecoff is my Instagram. DMs wide open. Fire in those DMs. Get your question answered here on the show. Other than, oh, it's take Tuesday. So I, something I noticed during the Olympics, and it's, I wouldn't say

driving me nuts, but I just, I keep coming back to, what are we doing? Like, is this, are we serious here? So I wanted to discuss that as well. Subscribe to the podcast. If you listen on Collins feed,

greatly appreciate everyone that has on three and out. YouTube channel, everything up on the YouTube channel. And the game plan is just a football podcast from here on out. Olympic golf, though, actually starts on Thursday. Kind of excited for that. Scotty Schaeffler, convict to Olympian. So fired up to watch old Scotty try to get the gold medal, or Xander. But before we dive into football, you know I got to tell you about my friends, my partners,

and the official ticketing app of this podcast, GameTime. Been hammering this for a long time. You guys need to do something fun. Because doing something fun is the easiest way to relax. Because listen, we're all high-stress people grinding away, just swinging our pick on a daily basis. And sometimes Friday and Saturday comes, it's like, what are we going to do?

I'll tell you what you're going to do. You're going to go to a concert and you're going to enjoy it. You're going to go to a baseball game. This fall, you're going to go to a football game. And you're going to do it because of game time and this podcast, because they got great deal. Flash ticketing pricing that you can find up to 60% off. It's very easy to search wherever you live,

any event coming to town in terms of price points where you're sitting, the view of the stage or the field. I cannot recommend them enough. So download the GameTime app, create an account, and use the code, John for $20 off your first purchase. Terms apply again. Create an account, redeem the code,

J-O-H-N, for $20 off. Download the game. time app today. Last minute tickets, lowest price is guaranteed. I've told this story before, but I'll talk about it a little bit again because I think it applies to Mahomes. And when I left Philadelphia in 2012 to move back to the West Coast to do college scouting because Daniel Jeremiah, who is obviously on NFL network and the lead draft guy, took over for Mayock, when he took over the Raiders' GM job, worked for the Eagles.

That's how I first met him. And when he got hired with the NFL network, I essentially begged for the West Coast job. I wanted to get back west. And luckily, most people in the building, who had longer 10 years than me, were West Coast people. And that obviously worked as an advantage.

Plus, I was relatively cheap labor. And when I got back, I had to live somewhere. And at the time, most of my friends, a lot of people I went to college with, were all living in San Francisco. It was booming because all these sales jobs with all the tech companies like Oracle and Facebook and Apple and Google and you name it. And it was much easier to get a job in the city that did not exist three or four years previously. So it was a lot of fun. And I wanted to move to San Francisco. And a buddy of mine through a family friend had just a friend.

had just bought a place. And I moved in with him. And this guy played baseball in college for an Ivy League school and was really, really smart and went to work in finance. And started making big cash very early in his, like, right after he graduated college. Ivy League elite, just a dude's dude and brilliant. And when I moved in with him, he was changing jobs.

And he was going to work for a different firm, like VC. I don't know the exact like the way you would describe his industry, but it was moving and shaken with cash investing and shit. And one thing he was big on is he fought for a title. He wanted, he wanted to be like a vice president at this firm. And that was a big deal to him. And then like six months later when the bonuses came out, he's like, I kind of got screwed. I didn't realize when I fought for this title, you know, in my previous jobs, I saw all these VP's making big money and I didn't put enough emphasis on it. And he's like, the reality I learned is a title and words shaking hands to create a deal

are completely meaningless. I would rather have been called an intern and doubled the bonus. And I think you see that a lot with these quarterback contracts. All these things are flying and all these numbers are flying and they're really hollow. How many people listening to this right now that work in any industry that know, if you're trying to land a deal, if you're working on a deal, words are pretty meaningless.

Until something is written on a contract and both sides have signed, nothing really matters. And I think you see with these quarterback contracts, these huge numbers, and I've been saying forever, nothing is more meaningless than average per year.

You know who is obsessed with average per year? The agent. Why? Makes them look good. And I don't blame them. That's their job. The better they look, the more clients they get, the longer their book of players grows, and the more money they're firm and they make individually.

That is their job. But in terms of teams, the general manager, the head coach, and most importantly, the contract negotiator and the owner, what are they obsessed with? Cash flow. How much do we actually have to pay this player? Like I said, Jordan Love in his contract is making 70,000, $25 million before Christmas.

He gets a $25 million payment now. He gets another one in October, and he gets another one the second week of December. So we get $75 million before the end of this calendar year. That's money now. And anyone knows money now is more valuable than money in two years. Hell, we've just seen the last three or four years, historic amount of inflation.

You always want more money up front. but Patrick Mahomes was asked recently about the contract he signed and a lot of people when he originally signed it thought he was crazy because he signed a 10 year contract people like no one does that because you want the ability to rehit free agency and he just said listen I'm happy for all the other guys I feel very comfortable this is not verbatim what he said but just kind of giving you the cliff note version I feel very comfortable with where we're at we've made some adjustments to it, and I also feel very comfortable with the group that I work with, meaning Andy and Brett Veach. And let's face it, most players and most agents are just using

these teams, and rightfully so, to just get as much money as humanly possible. They don't really trust the GM or the owner. But Patrick Mahomes has learned, and like any human being, obviously most of us, our numbers aren't 45 or 50 or 55 million dollars a year. But if you get into business with people, and the older you get, the more experience you have, you've been in business with people, you don't really trust,

you don't feel that comfortable with, you're not dead set on buying into the future with these people. And then sometimes you get in bed with people, you trust just unequivocally. Like you don't even hesitate to go, yeah, what do you need?

I'm in. What can I do? And it's less about the money and more about the belief and big picture of where we're going to go because this is going to work. And when you trust and believe in people, it's easier to make more money over the long term. Now, Patrick Mahomes, don't get it twisted. He will make, and I heard Mike Floreal say this, between 2003, so last season, through 2006, more actual cash than any player who's under contract right now.

And that includes all the new contract sign. he will make $215 million over the next four years. The only guy who's remotely close to him is Joe Burrow, who's a couple million dollars less. That's actual money. Not fake numbers on a contract. Not numbers that can change if you have a catastrophic injury. That's real cash flow.

And listen, that's never how these contracts are going to be reported. And unless you dive deep and are obsessed with this time, type stuff, you could argue it's kind of irrelevant how much cash these guys, whether they get $30 million this year or $46 million this year. But when it comes to the best player in the league, and let's face it, the most important player currently in the NFL, Patrick Mahomes, he's the highest paid guy in the league when it comes to actual dollars. Right. So you can have all these fake numbers. You can say this contract's bigger than that. Tua got more guaranteed money on paper than Patrick Mahomes.

None of that means anything when one guy actually gets more cash. And I think one thing Patrick Mahomes learned that only a small percentage of players ever get to go through is he learns that I should trust Andy Reid and Brett Veach with everything. Because the more I win,

the more money I will make the rest of my life. Like Joe Montana in 2024 is still really valuable. Tom Brady, before, he retired, signed a $375 million contract with Fox to broadcast games. No one even knew if he could do it. And they almost gave him $400 million. Why? Because he's widely considered the greatest player in the history of the sport and he has six, seven Super Bowls.

Would he have signed that contract if he had two Super Bowls? No, he would not have. Because that number wouldn't have been that high. And I remember talking to a player who's going to be in the Hall of Fame one day. And he was part of the negotiations for one of the CBAs. And he's like, I don't think most people understand we don't make that much money in the playoffs. And that's true. If you make 10, 15, 20, 30 million dollars during the regular season, once you get to the playoffs, it's slotted by round. Meaning if you're the star pass rusher or the star quarterback or the star wide receiver,

you make the same as the 52nd guy on the roster. And it goes up by the round. But you do realize when you win in the playoffs, like Mahomes and Kelsey have done, like Peyton Manning has done winning Super Bowls, like Eli did winning a couple Super Bowls. Obviously Tom is the best example, and now Patrick Mahomes is doing.

It gives you value in perpetuity. You are always valuable from a marketing standpoint. And that's what Patrick Mahomes has with the Kansas City Chiefs. So if on paper, he looks like he's making a little less, if people talk about why his contract, he doesn't give a shit because he knows two things. One, the most important thing, the actual money coming into his bank account. And two, he works with the best in the business. Where if you were a player on just a random team, even if you like the coach and like the GM,

like why would you ever quote unquote take a discount or quote unquote not fight for every penny? You know at any moment those guys could be fired at any moment they could try to replace. issue happens all the time, literally with every team. And Patrick Mahomes has seen firsthand. One, they'll invest in the team when a guy gets really good, right? Like Chris Jones, they ended up taking care of them. And when they have to make a big picture risky move, they've proven that they can make it work.

Tom experienced this for 20 years of Bill Belichick. Listen, it was some of the things he did when the news broke, you're like, Bill is nuts. And then it tended to work out. and they tended to always be in the AFC championship game or the Super Bowl. And Tom obviously was a huge part of that and then benefited and continues to benefit

because of the success they had. So I think the one life lesson I've taken forever is until it's on paper, nothing matters. And titles, you know, and the perception of something can be a little overrated. You can call me an intern all day long if you're paying me $10 million.

Who cares? The NFL seasons right around the corner. We'll be breaking down all the off-season storylines on the Colin Cowherd podcast. My best takes, guests like my buddy Nick Wright, check out the Colin Coward podcast, part of the Volume Network, available on Apple, Spotify,

or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast, Superhuman, documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds.

I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me. Cliver Taylor the 4th.

You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life.

mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.

And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tapped Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam Jett. And I'm Alex English.

Each episode, we pick a here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because. of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now.

Thank you for finishing that sentence. Yes. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your A couple things on the business of the NFL.

There was a report that came out, I think, from Florio last week, and then Peter Schrager added to it today on Good Morning Football Los Angeles, which I think they're getting up at like one in the morning to do a morning show for the East Coast in L.A., which is kind of stupid in theory, but then you realize they own the real estate in L.A. not in New York. York and they were paying a premium. People like, well, the NFL is making so much money. Why are they cutting? No, the NFL teams and the games are making money.

The media is not. So just because one thing is making money doesn't mean you're just like, yeah, we're just cool with this other entity, not making money. That's not usually the way the world works. But one element to the NFL is they are very, I would say, beholden to their TV partners. Why? That's where their money comes from. so when CBS NBC

obviously Fox and now Amazon hell even Netflix have some weird ass that make coaches uncomfortable you know what the response usually is from the league like we kind of got to do what they say

now like in any business partnership there are certain times where you have to draw a line in the sand but this one's kind of easy because they already do it so for the 2020 season and moving forward each team has to make a coach available, whether it be the head coach or one of the coordinators in both halves. Now, these coaching interviews, we all agree, are really dumb.

You get very little to nothing. They already happen, usually once a game, right? You get Kyle Shanahan running up the field, or you talk to Belichick or Andy right before the game. It's like, yeah, we're ready. We've had a good week of practice. Can't wait to see the boys play. but that's what the TV partners want and if the TV partners want it

what are you supposed to do? Say no that seems like a pretty easy ass to go yeah and one thing that's going to be fascinating is that you can give the coordinators now a large percentage of the coordinators are up in the box so even if you wanted to give one of your guys the ability to talk

it's probably not going to be possible but some of the coordinators are on the field and it'll be very interesting to see if any teams, because I think the majority of the teams will just have the head coach do the 20, 30 second interview on both halves, if that's ultimately what the TV networks want, need on that given game. I bet sometimes they don't use them both if it's pretty terrible. Who knows?

We'll see. But there will be a team or two that goes, yeah, let's let our coordinator do it. Now, the coordinator could be a little bit more of a wild card on game day. I know if I ran a team, like if I was the GM or the owner, I would just say head coach, you do them both. Whatever time that they need to put a microphone in front of you during the game, pregame, half time, coming out from half, you're the guy speaking. And I would imagine the overwhelming majority,

I don't want to say 100%, but well over 90. I'm sure we'll see a couple coordinators throughout the year talk. Maybe if the coach is caught up doing something, but it's just going to be more head coaches doing coach speak. And the bills, it looks like they're going to get, I think they've already officially have a new stadium coming. It's not going to be for a little while. But the reaction of the pricing has been pretty eye-opening.

They talk to a bunch of fans and they're not happy. Because any time you get a new stadium, you do the seat licensing, which sucks. You basically just pay a flat fee to get the right to buy the tickets. Now, that also gives you ownership over that seat for concerts and other events, but still, when you have an old, shitty stadium, that never existed. And when you build the new one, the easiest way to pay for it, so the owners, you know, Jerry figured this out a long time ago, was just create a revenue stream out of thin air.

And that's what a seat license is. But everyone's doing it. And it sucks if you're a season ticket holder. I saw one quote from a Bill's fan was like, listen, I'm going to have to spend a lot more money, but I had two choices. One, give up my tickets and no longer go or continue to be a season ticket holder. Now, I've always believed that like season tickets in 2024, little overrated game time. I mean, you can get tickets whenever you want to any event. Does everyone go to every game?

Now, I understand it from a business standpoint for clients, for giveaways, but I wonder if season tickets are going to be as big of a deal in 15, 20 years as they were 20, 30 years ago. But I get it. You know, football is a lot easier than, I can't even comprehend having like baseball season tickets. It's just an individual. I get it from a corporation standpoint. But football, you know, you get a couple weeks off where the team's on the road. I understand it.

I know a lot of season ticket holders. but yeah I mean anytime your team builds a new stadium these seat licenses suck now one thing I saw the bills say is that the club level seats which are typically the most expensive beside a suite

are going to be very very expensive but you do get a lot more and I can only speak from just going to like a sofa stadium when I went to the Niner game it was week 17 a couple years ago Crazy Niner come back that basically got them into the playoffs. We bought, we. I did and took some buddies because they took me to L.A. country club,

so it was a little, I scratch your back, you scratch my back. And I remember the club seats were awesome. Just in terms of the site, because they're typically right on the second level. And in football, unlike basketball or baseball, being a little higher is actually better. and the amenities were just incredible. I mean, it's hard to describe. The bars, the food, I was blown away. And if I was someone, like, I do think if you can afford it,

the club level seats at a lot of these new stadiums really make it worth it and create an experience that these old decrepit, shitty stadiums, there's something special about it. Like, I still have a little nostalgia for going to candlestick or even when I went to the Coliseum with the Raiders. It's just old. It's grimy. But once the game starts, it's just about football.

Because the food sucks. The concourse is miserable. The bathrooms are awful. There's a purity to it. But that's not what this stuff's about anymore. It's about revenue generation. And these new stadiums just kind of have the market cornered on that. There was a video that went viral today of Gerard Mayo,

the new Patriot head coach. going over to Matt Judon, who's doing this like hold in thing, uh, wants a raise. I was looking at his contract. To me, it looks like he's making $7 million this year based on actual cash.

A lot of people reported that that number's a little under 14. Regardless, in his mind, he had a couple straight years of, I think he had almost 28 sacks over a two year period. Last year, he only played in a couple games because he had a season ending injury. But he wants a big race.

And this is the last year under contract. He wants a long-term deal. Who knows how this is going to play out? But it got me thinking because I talk about this a lot on this podcast. Is the difference of going from a position coach or a coordinator to the headman? There is no training for that. Because this is a situation that over the last 25 years, anything that happened with the Patriots, when it came to injuries, when it came to guys getting in trouble, I mean, they have,

the crazy shit happened to him over that period of time. And they had a player kill someone down the street from his house. Regardless, Belichick handled it. His assistants did not have to deal with it. Not only handled the situation, whether they cut a player, traded a player, extended a player, you just coached who was ever there. He then picked a player to, if he traded someone to add to the roster, it was never your problem.

You dealt with none of that. And Gerard Mayo, it's not like he's been a lot of other places. he's only worked for Bill. So now you get thrust into this role and within like a three-day span one of your best players has blood clots and is out for who knows long. Let's just hope Christian Barrymore stays healthy

and is able to come back and play. You could argue your most talented defensive player, Judon, when healthy, is just being weird. There's one thing to be doing a hold in and stand there. Iyuk's doing that. Jumar Chase. doing that. Today, when Gerard Mayo went and talked to him, he was just sitting on a dummy,

which I would imagine Gerard Mayo was like, bro, what are you doing? Like, either stand, watch the drill, you can't just sit on this thing, and they basically kicked him out of practice. But this is all on him. So when someone gets a DUI, when someone has blood clots, when someone has a contract issue, that is your problem. You don't just get to worry about your unit and worry about the scheme. You've got to worry about all this crap. And to me, this is why so many coaches fail. Because there is no training ground for this, especially being a younger coach.

Now, one thing he can do maybe more than just some other guy that didn't play is he can have a conversation with the player, kind of player to player. I remember when I worked with the Eagles, Deuce Staley was really good with players. Because he could get on their ass because he could kind of relate. Like, I've been through these situations, fellas. You know, fucking try a little harder here, buddy.

and it was some coaches, you know, couldn't really pull that off. There was a story the other day of a fan bringing that Mahomes doll. The Raiders, the Raiders didn't bring it, which at first you didn't quite know what was going on. The video went viral. It was a fan brought it. But the player got it and was making fun of it and obviously went viral and it got back to the Chiefs. Well, I read the other day that Antonio Pierce said they had a team meeting, addressed it, nipped it in the bud, and it's no longer going to be an issue.

That's a good example. If you're an assistant coach, that ain't your problem. That ain't your issue. Maybe you get on the guy individually in a position meeting, but it's not on you to fine them, to suspend them, to make them run. Like, that's the head coach's job. And Antonio Pierce, Gerard Mayo, like, they're thrown into the D-Pet. And this is really, really difficult.

Obviously, when you look at the Patriots, this is going to be a really hard year. Their team isn't that good. They're already having issues. They have another contract issue, I think, with a nose tackle. It's just, they got a lot going on. And if he can handle this, more power to him. Maybe he's destined to be a great coach.

But this would sink a lot of guys that know what they're doing, let alone a guy who's been a head coach now for what? Five months? Not even. So, Godspeed to Giraud Mail. Let's fire through some NFL news because there was a lot going on today. Lamar Jackson

Looks like he's no longer sick and he was at practice. So he's feeling good. Good to see. We like all of our star players healthy and on the field. Speaking of players not on the field is the one shitty part about training camp

the part that I miss by far the least is and listen, I don't quite understand how coaches and GMs get numb to it, but I think the longer you're in the business, you never get numb to losing like your best players in practice, but you do kind of get numb to losing players in training camp with major injuries. It's just kind of part of the business. There is no avoiding it.

Every team in some former fashion has, at minimum, guys pulling hamstrings, guys breaking hands. Obviously, the worst case scenario is any Achilles or torn knee. Well, Sam Williams, one of, I don't want to call him a star, but he's a really, really talented young player in a special team drill, got locked up and tore his ACL and MCL and is obviously out for the season and was carted off the field. And those are type moments in practice that just rattle you. They really do.

because this sounds like a pretty innocuous, like kickoff or kickoff return drill. They're just kind of, you know, connected. I don't know exactly how it goes down. But anyone that's ever been to a football practice where a guy tears a knee could be high school, it could be college or it could be the pros. The whole place goes silent because the guy's laying on the ground. And then when the cart comes out, everyone knows it's not good. And you're just in the back of your mind or your fingers are crossed.

Best case scenario, it's just a bad start. strain or he's just freaking out. But most people know, like, that's it. And that can rattle you. And as a coach, as a front office person, you don't have a choice. Like, you have to move on. I mean, within the next

day, you probably have to bring in free agents off the street and work them out. Because one, you need another body to run practice. And two, like, you just lost that player. The guy who plays for you and impacts your team. and it's very, very difficult at this time to do much, right?

Because there's one more time during the year, the big cut down, where you can add players, but let's face it, if you need tackles, if you need pass rushers, they're typically not available, right? That's just not the time. And you're just kind of shit out of luck. So I hate seeing that, but it's just part of the deal. Russell Wilson missed another practice

With his calf injury Is there a chance he's just kind of old Is there a chance that at this point in time He's just kind of a lot of tread on his tires And just your classic kind of beating up athlete This is what used to happen You played in the NFL for 11, 12, 13 years And then it just gets kind of ugly

And who could have thought that Five years ago with this player but the last couple years on the field have not been great. Now he's got a calf injury. I've said forever, like, I'm out on this guy. And I thought in his peak he was one of the more entertaining, definitely one of the more spectacular players. I've seen him live a bunch.

But that guy's long gone. And I'm not acting like Justin Fields is some superstar in the making. But how, if you were a Steeler fan, Would you want to watch Russell Wilson play quarterback? Even if he was healthy. Let's just see what we have in Justin Fields. Worst case scenario, we just go to Russell. I want to start with Fields.

See if we can build up his confidence, see if we can improve him. Even with his flaws, he can play better with us than he did with the Bears. Let's see if there's anything there. We know what Russell is. An old trending down player whose athleticism is diminishing. who lost his confidence. Does fields have anything? Because if he does, maybe we can strike oil.

Not likely you're going to strike oil, but at least see if there's anything there. That's what I would want. Taylor Decker, Lions Tackle, signs a three-year, $60 million deal. I think he gets about a little over half of that guaranteed. And, yeah, I mean,

the Lions have just signed a lot of their good players. Sewell's under Conrad. contract, golf's under contract, St. Brown's under contract, now Decker's under contract. This happens a lot during training camp, and it's happening all over the league of like, this guy looks remarkable. This guy, best camp of his career. That's what they're saying about Jameson Williams. And I'm not trying to make fun of the Lions. That's happening all over the league. But they obviously have a lot of talented players on that team. And if Jameson Williams is just good, to go with to Gibbs the running back,

Laporta, St. Brown, their offensive lines are really good. If their defense is just a little bit better, lions are going to be a problem again. They got all their coaching staff back. They didn't lose their offensive coordinator. Hard not to like the Lions. And last but not least, Tristan Worst. I think this is the complicated part.

He's a star tackle. Some of these other guys have gotten paid. You've got Trent Williams right now who wants more money. I think some of these tackles go, wait, you're telling me a wide receiver is more valuable than me. This guy's making $35 million and you want to pay me $26? How does that pencil? I think the biggest gripe in the NFL right now are star tackles. If I'm Trent Williams, like the minimum raise we got to figure out. I want $30 million a year. That'll put a smile on my face.

25 is a slap in my face. Because one, I know you can't play without me. I know you don't want to do that, and we all acknowledge, like, I'm the best tackle. Worf's goes, I'm easily one of the best tackles. Penae Sewell said I'm one of the best tackles. How is my number a lot less than Justin Jefferson? Justin Jefferson last year, his team was kind of irrelevant.

He was banged up. No one thinks the Vikings are going to be any good this year. So, Devante Adams, makes all that money as team struggles to win seven games. You're winning with me. And I play the position blocking the second highest paid position in the league behind quarterbacks in these pass rushers. Aren't I equally as important as a pass rusher?

If I can block a $30 million player, shouldn't then I make $30 million? Isn't that the way it should work? I think tacklers have one of the biggest gripes in the league. And I think we're going to return. tire tangent Tuesday and we'll call it take Tuesday. The Olympics. Now I've watched a decent amount of Olympics.

My one overall take for the Summer Olympics, I understand the business of this, NBC Peacock, which is the same thing, spending a lot of money, and they need inventory. So they've added a bunch of sports. I have a lot of respect for surfers. I don't do the ocean. Why?

That's where sharks live. I'm not trying to get my leg bit off. And I've never even a touch. attempted surfing. I have, I snowboarded once and I quit. I was like, this is too hard. A lot of respect for how hard it is. Same thing with skateboarding. Never been a big skateboarded a little bit. It's very, very difficult to be a good skateboarder. When you say surfing and skateboarding, do you think Olympics? Handball. I think I said yesterday on the mailback, if I was a former division one athlete, if I played college football, if I was a fringe NBA NFL guy, I would go out for

handball. When you watch handball on television, you go, this is an Olympic sport. Track and field, swimming, gymnastics, staples of the Summer Olympics, basketball, totally get it. I love golf. I really do. I would say I am like in the 99% high. I'm, of consuming the PGA tour and following the sport. It shouldn't be an Olympic sport. It just shouldn't. I mean, I'm sorry. Now, clearly they have added a lot of these sports

to fill television windows. Because after Simone Biles is done and the swimming's over, like, what else would you do? So you want more sports. I get the business. But I think we all have to acknowledge. It feels like half the things we see. I was watching the synchronized diving yesterday.

I can't even imagine how difficult that was. There were two girls, one with the last name Cook, one with the last name Bacon. Their parents were wearing shirts that said, Cook and Bacon. It was cool. And they finished one of the girls from Australia, almost missed the board, fucked up. Our girls got the silver medal. It was sweet. They started crying.

They've been best friends for like 15, 20 years. It's a cool moment. I get it. Like I'm pro. Every time I want to hate the Olympics, once I watch swimming or just, you know, gymnastics or the track and field, you get really into it. You get very patriotic. Come on, America.

Simone Biles, she's battling through her calf injury. But I'm sorry, when I see handball, table tennis, ping pong, I think we've all played a little bit here and there. Some are better than others. That's an Olympic sport? I don't know. I just don't, I don't quite get it. I really don't.

So you have an upcoming fantasy football draft? Well, then you need to check out the fantasy pro. Draft Wizard. When you sync your fantasy football league with Draft Wizard, you'll get an instant report that shows you how the rest of your league drafts. You'll see who overdrafts rookies in early rounds, who's going to be the person to take that first QB off the board, and which manager is going to always reach for that hometown player every single time. And then you take those patterns directly into the draft simulator and make your mock draft feel like the real thing. When your real draft comes around, you're going to be ready. And the draft assistant will be

there for you to give you live pick-by-pick insights and expert recommendations of who to draft and when to draft them. You can see all of this and more at fantasypros.com slash volume today. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all,

embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care which I'm saying.

Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast,

the Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me, or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right what you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart radio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast.

I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84's big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack all day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line.

We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you for finishing that sentence. And yes, I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Okay, let's dive in to a little thing we call the Middlecough mailbag.

Fire in those DMs at John Middlecough. At John Middlecough is the Instagram. DEMs wide open. Start with Nate. my question is this the EPL English Premier League

has had recent discussions over potential games being played overseas in the U.S. I'm strongly opposed as there are big rivalries that are found within the UK

such as Manchester United versus Liverpool the reason I oppose overseas play is because what makes these games so interesting to watch is due to the history

found within the city and stadiums that they are played at. These rivalries go back to the early 1900s. And very often, times are played at the stadium in that whole span, barring the clubs moving to a different city. For relevance to the national footballing,

do you think there is a point where these games are played overseas, Germany, England, and now Brazil, will grow to an extent within a season that we really start losing the value of the rivalries found within the league. Games such as Steelers Ravens, Bears Packers, being played in a different country

to draw in big crowds. I understand that currently the less popular teams have been getting these games such as the Jags, Panthers, and Bucks. I was curious your thought on the extent of this. I'm torn because

you always want to grow but and clearly the NFL has put an emphasis on these international games, expanding and expanding and now during the Brazil game. I think the NFL's great advantage to dominating, like relative to the other team sports, in terms of ratings, relevance,

the amount of people that watch is they've owned America. You know, Ethan Sherwood Strauss, who's one of the best substacks out there, writes a lot about the international, influence on the NBA. Let's face it, the two best players currently in the NBA. Yokic's the best player. And Luca, Janice, it's become a very international game.

And it's lost a lot of popularity. And there's something to be said about rooting for Michael Jordan or Magic Johnson or Larry Bird or Shaq or Kobe was technically an international baby, but he's an American. And football is our sport. It's not played anywhere else. it's our baby. And it dominates here for a reason.

It feels very America. Feels very patriotic. They're synonymous with the military. It's very easy to follow. And the expansion to Europe is something that I don't pretend to understand all the metrics that go behind it in terms of the value that it brings.

It definitely adds a TV slot when it's on Sunday because it's at the 630 Pacific Standard Time window. The Brazil thing I don't totally understand. understand. I'm with you. If you told me they did zero international play, I don't think anyone would notice or anyone would care. Now, if you tell me one day they want to move to the UK and that's a big play, I would say, okay, I understand the big picture move here of doing a couple games there every year. But if that's not in play, which logistically, obviously, would be

very difficult because if you want to sign a player and he's living in L.A. and you want to, you know, bring them out to London, it can be a challenge. It could be long plane flights and time zones and everything else. But I'm with you. I would have no problem if everything was here, but that's clearly not the way businesses operate. Everyone is constantly trying to expand. I think about it with the podcast. How do we grow? How do we grow? How do we grow? It's always on my mind. Who can we have on the podcast? Working some back channels, get bigger guests. You know, you're always thinking. And I just think that's comes naturally to anyone running a business, and that's what the NFL is doing,

and that's what the EPL is doing. Because when you look at F1, for example, they were, I might be speaking out of turn a little bit, I don't follow the sport, but clearly the Netflix emergence in America was really big, created new fans, and what have they done? Come to Miami, come to Vegas.

So they expanded. Now, it's a little, it's not apples to apples, but you know what I'm saying. So Bears Packers should be played in Chicago or Green Bay. Right. Eagles Cowboys should not be an international game. And I'm pretty sure, like, think about the Brazil game. It's Eagles Packers.

Now, you could argue, I think that's an Eagles home game, but that's, if you're a season ticket holder, that sucks. Packers, week one, at home, or let's to say it was vice versa. If you're a Packer season ticket holder. Eagles in Lambo, that's a sweet game. It sucks to lose it. I see both sides of the argument.

My personal take is I would keep everything in America and just keep the cash flowing here and not really worry about it. But that's not the way anyone running a business ever thinks. Especially the world is so flat now because of the internet in terms of business, not the way Kyrie thinks. And I just think you go with social media, the ability to connect to people. it's just a lot different now. So maybe that changes the mindset with the EPL or with the NFL. How overrated is baby Dion? I think he's alluding to Shador Sanders.

I would say this. He's really talented. He has a big arm. He's athletic. Last season, as the year went on, it was tough to judge. But I was thinking about this this morning. or the other day, you can't hype up guys like Jordan Love and Josh Allen, who were all over the map in college,

and act like this guy's not a good prospect. Now, what happened on social media, him shitting on teammates, him and his dad, it's going to be a weird experience. But Dion was a weird experience when he was coming out. The difference is, Dion was a can't miss all-time great talent. His son is not. And obviously, Dion is widely considered the best corner ever. So I think part of Chador is going to be difficult is he carries himself like his dad.

And Dion carried himself like he was the shit because he was. And I think there was a humility with some of these projects. I don't think Colorado is going to be any good this year. I think they're going to struggle to get to a bowl game, which is not a hot tag. their lines suck and the conference they're going into is not easy. They're going to be an underdog in a lot of games. They easily

could lose the opening game to North Dakota State who is an unreal program and knows what it takes to win, especially beat bigger programs. They lose that game. They could be in for a long season. They win that.

I just think it's going to be hard to beat Oklahoma State. It's going to be hard to be Utah. It's going to be hard to beat Kansas. They don't have a lot of wins on their schedule. As we saw last year, the better teams they play, they got shalacked because they suck at the line of scrimmage. I think they have five new offensive alignment. But if the team wins four or five games, it's more, if he has the physical attributes,

he's going to get drafted. The things that are going to separate him is the character stuff. And like, how is he with his teammates? What do the assistant coaches say about him when Dion's not there? I don't know any of those answers. I haven't heard anything good or bad beside what you've seen on social media. But he's definitely a very, very intriguing prospect.

He could, if he has an awesome season, they win 7-8 games, he could be the number one overall pick in the draft. If they have a weird season, because let's face it, last year got weird, coaches started getting fired and demoted, things could get weird quick. They're fascinating. And like I said, I don't think they're going to be any good.

And it's not because of him, just because their team's not good enough. I think the more fascinating thing with Colorado is Travis Hunter, who plays both ways, but what position is he going to pick? This isn't Shohei Otani. You're not going to play both ways in the NFL. You're either going to be a starting corner or starting wide receiver.

I don't know the answer to that. I mean, if he just plays corner and he's an awesome corner, he'd go top two or three pick in the draft. if he's just a really good wide receiver see every year like good wide receivers are the third or fourth guy off the board at their own position.

I'm probably most intrigued by Travis Hunter as much as Shador. What are the Dolphins and the Jacks thinking about paying Tua in Lawrence early? I get you get a discount, but if I'm an AFC team, there's no way I'm paying any quarterback not named Mahomes, Josh Allen, Lamar, Herbert

over 35 a year. You have no chance giving a borderline top 15 quarterback who needs elite talent around them 20% of your payroll. The Dolphins, but here's the big question. If you were the Dolphins and didn't pay Tua, then he has another year like last year, what can you really do moving forward?

I guess you have to pay him. What do you want? Because you can lose him for nothing. Well, my thing with Tua is, I hear you on Trevor. I just would have played it out another year. Like, I'll give you $200 million next year, Would I have to give them that much more?

Like, let's just see you prove it out another year. With Tua, who am I bidding against? That to me is the question. Tua has one more year on his contract, or did, the fifth year option. Who's sitting at me or sitting with me at the table wanting my player? You saw Christian Wilkins, right? Once they had to move some money around and hit free agency, a lot of teams were going to be interested in Christian Wilkins.

the Giants, the Raiders, I'm sure there were other teams that wanted Christian Wilkins. That was obvious. So if you wanted to keep them but let them hit free agency, they were going to be teams interested. The Giants was Sequin Barclay.

It's like, we're going to let you hit the open market, give us the chance to match. Even if they didn't quite understand, they knew people were going to be interested in signing them. Who's signing Tua for $150 million? Who? I just don't,

I don't see. who. But that's my thing with that, is when you get Mahomes or Herbert, even Trevor Lawrence, like other people would want Trevor Lawrence. Other people would want Jordan Love. Other people would have wanted Jalen Hertz. Who right now wants Tua?

I'm just, it's a rhetorical quay. I don't know. You could give me five teams and I can say, I don't know. Maybe. Raiders? Is there a difference of roles and responsibilities that an OC might have

based on the team he's coaching? For instance, I imagine an offensive coordinator for a defensive-minded coach like Tomlin may have different responsibilities and be more involved as opposed to an OC on Shanahan or McVeigh's coach team.

Well, I would say the main difference is you're calling the place. So if you work for Pete Carroll, if you work for Tomlin, if you work for John Harbaugh, you're the play caller. Todd Bowles, it's your offense.

You're the head coach of the offense. If you're the offensive coordinator for McVeigh, LaFleur, Shanahan, those type guys, you're a position coach on steroids. You're doing a lot of heavy lifting for the game plan, but you're not calling the place. So it's a major difference.

it's dramatic, I think, with the responsibility. Because let's just face it, if you have the responsibility of calling the place or not calling the place, that changes your entire week slash Sunday dramatically. I have a couple nephews. There's a big difference of babysitting them and being their parent.

And I think the equivalent of that is like, when you're the play caller, all of it falls on you. That's why when the game ends, we go nuts on play callers. Because they're in control. No one ever goes, you know what? That run game coordinator's advice that no one knows about on Thursday sure was stupid. Or when things are good.

They don't get any credit. Right? Like, imagine if we knew. Like, yeah, that O-Lines coach's idea on changing the prediction, sliding to the right instead of the left, really paid dividends this game. That's not how we talk. We go, what a great game by the play caller. What a genius call on third and four. Even though it might not even have been his idea.

Because it is pretty collaborative. But they get all the credit. Well, like the quarterback. He gets all the credit. Even though the right guard stoned Chris Jones on the third downplay, which led to a touchdown. Question for the mailbag. Looking at the star heavy 49ers roster with another Super Bowl run,

which players do you think are getting into the Hall of Fame and which others are close to it? You can include Coach Shanahan in the question. Tie from Mexico. I would say Trent Williams is a Hall of Famer right now. I would say that Fred Warner is building a Hall of Fame career. To me, George Kittle has a long way to go. Those guys would be the only one in the discussion.

Christian McCaffrey, When Healthy is a Hall of Fame player. But to do, you know, what he has to do to get in, Marshall Falk, Ledani and Tomlinson, he's going to need three or four more huge years. But he's been pretty special. I would say that would be the group. And Nick Bosa has a long way to go.

But he's a Hall of Fame talent. So I would say Trent Williams in the Hall of Fame. Guys building a resume, Fred Warner would be one. Let's just pull up Fred Warner. he's only 27 He's a three-time first-team all-pro So if he has Three more seasons at this level

It needs a six-time first-team all-pro Patrick Willis got in Now I think peak Patrick Willis Is better than Fred Warner But you go to three Super Bowls You get a bunch of all-pros Maybe you make a big play Pick off in the Super Bowl

That's how you get in To me McCaffrey like a lot of skill guys Hall of Fame talent but being a Hall of Famer to me is doing it over a long period of time and if he can have four more years like he just had

then he'd have a pretty good argument but we see a lot of guys get derailed like Luke Keeckley was a Hall of Fame guy immediately it was like God look how good this guy is but you look at his resume he didn't do it for that long so like is he going to get in I don't have his Wikipedia up but I think his crew was cut so short

Question for the mailback. For as well as the Steelers appear to have drafted, is it as fairer to view this offseason as disappointing considering they seem to have failed at upgrading the receiver room? Pickens is very good,

but I hesitate to view him as the true number one until he produces more. Love the pod, thanks for the content. I think this, why they were in a tough spot and why they were interested in trading for Brandon I, Yucan, I think, why they would be interested in trading for them right now. But I think what they would say organizationally is we have historically found guys

that you never would consider good who become good a year or two into their career. That we draft in the fourth round, draft in the sixth round. I have to pull up their roster. But I think if any team deserves the benefit of the doubt with that unit, it has to be the Pittsburgh Steelers. Like after a while, it's like Belichick. Are we sure you have any clue what you're doing when it comes to wide receivers in the draft? It was a very, very fair argument to make against him. It's like, you took Nikiel Harry?

You took Sony Michelle over Nick Chubb? He made some awful decisions when it came to skill guys. I think the Steelers are pretty good when it comes to that position. I think they're the best and definitely have been over a multiple decade stretch. and maybe it's Tomlin, maybe it's his influence, maybe it's the Rooney organ. I don't know. I don't know what their secret sauce is,

but they do have a secret sauce. I think you guys are good enough at the skill guys if you get good quarterback play. But if your quarterback play is average, that means your defense is going to have to be a lot better than last year. You're going to need guys to stay healthy. Obviously, T.J's a star. Mink is a star.

Cam is a really good player. He got hurt last year, missed a bunch of time. You know, the Najee Harris contracts, situation. I don't blame them. I wouldn't have given him a contract extension either. Little Warren's a dynamic little guy. Tight end's a good player. So, like, you have enough talent if your quarterback play is solid to win 10 games. But if it's up and down, you'll be right on that like eight wins going into the last game of the season and need two other teams to lose to get into the playoffs. Like that feels like it's been the story of the Steelers over the last

four or five years. Beside the one year when you were really good and then the Browns beat your ass in the playoffs. Granted, kind of a Fugazi season with no fans, but still, that was a bad loss. I think we all agree. Do you think based on the Packers' recent history with quarterbacks? That is highly likely that Jordan Love is a top three quarterback in the league in a first ballot Hall of Famer? Well, if you just based on the previous two guys, the answer is yes.

I mean, if you go, well, Far, Far, Rogers, And this guy's good too, then he's just going to be one of the all-time greats. I can't say that with a straight face. But no one can debate his final stretch of the season was awesome. But being a Hall of Fame player is basically taking that final eight games and doing it for the next seven, nine, ten years. Obviously, you can have some dips, right, Farve did. Rogers, for the most part, was pretty elite.

He had a couple dips that last McCarthy year. and even that first LeFloir year was a little off. But beside injury, the majority of his career starting in 2009, that fucking guy was incredible. So I think it's probably more likely to be like Fav.

And again, I'm not saying he's going to be as good as Favre. But my point is, Favre could be up and down a little bit. Rogers was, for the majority of his career, one of the most consistent players we've ever seen. And if that's the case, then yeah,

they just get a, another top 10, top 20 quarterback of all time. Be the craziest story of all time. Now, like I said, I understood investing in him. I think he's a really talented player. And like any business, when you invest early in a guy and get him for cheap and then around the person or around the company and believe in it and you put all your chips in the middle of the table, I get it.

And I applaud and admire people for doing that. They put their chips in the middle of the table because they believe this guy could be a consistent all-pro pro bowl player. The dolphins put all their chips in the middle of the table because they they ask themselves, how do we upgrade? To me, there are two separate ways of life. All chips in the table, because we believe this guy can lead us to a Super Bowl. The dolphins are like, yeah, we just like being in the mix.

We like, we're content. They, in a weird way, they spend a lot of money to take the easy way out. the Packers invest in risk that they feel pretty confident that is going to work out, which I get, which a lot of people in the investing world, like once they get a pretty good idea,

it's like quadruple our investment. It's what it felt they did, because they feel the ceiling is really, really high. But Hall of Fame, all that stuff. Like, that's hard to do it. It's hard to talk about Hall of Fame with like that question on the Niners. Because I hold the Hall of,

Fame to like Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Steve Young, John Elway, Dan Marino, Aaron Rogers. Like, it's a special club. There's been a lot of good players, a lot of really good players, right? You could make the argument that Ben Rothesberger isn't a Hall of Famer. And there were parts and points in time in his career where I thought as good as it gets. Eli Manning, his two Super Bowl runs were incredible. To me, he's not a Hall of Famer.

Now, I think those guys are going to get in. I like thinking of the Hall of Fame as like the Cream of the Crop LT, Dion, Barry Sanders, Walter Payton, Jonathan Ogden, Ray Lewis.

I mean, there are no, I don't like question marks with my Hall of Famers, but that's not the way it works. Like it was John Lynch, a Hall of Famer? I think he was right on the borderline

and probably in a perfect world. Like, no, he's the Hall of Unreal, really good. But like when I think Hall of Famer, I think Ronnie Lott. but that's not, you know, I think it's fair to say the Hall of Fame has been diluted a little bit. It doesn't mean the guys they're getting in weren't really good.

But there should be a fine line of like, there are guys in the Hall of Fame that when everyone's dead and up in football heaven, like does Dionne Sanders and Ledanyan Tomlinson and Lawrence Taylor and mean Joe Green, like they don't have the same things in common with some of the other guys in there. but like guys get in

and I'm not trying to diminish you if you're in you're in and you obviously had an unreal career but before we can put Jordan Love into the hall let's just see him make a pro bowl and not one of those well three guys one dude's in the Super Bowl the other dude is playing in the pebble beach golf tournament

and the other dude just didn't want to show up he took his wife to Tulum let's like to real pro bowl. To me, there's two different pro bowls. We see it every year. Six guys make the pro bowl. And then ultimately,

Mac Jones ends up in there. But like last year, Mahomes, Josh Allen, Lamar. Legit pro bowls. I think the NFC was Dak, Purdy, and golf. Now, I don't know if all those guys

even went or whatever, but obviously Purdy didn't he was in the Super Bowl. Same with Mahomes. Josh Allen backed out. So all these other guys I think Derek Carr ended up in the pro bowl last year. No, he wasn't a true pro bowler. So to me, people try to act like the pro bowl doesn't matter.

And I agree, like the event's stoop and everything now. But if you were a legit pro bowler, like Justin Jefferson or T.J. Watt, like when the first team comes out before people drop out, that's a real honor. That's a real honor. Once you drop out and fake people get in, then it gets diluted. And I think on the Wikipedia, it doesn't. doesn't discriminate between the two. It's like, Derek Carr's made like four Pro Bowls.

I think he's made legitimately like one. And a lot of guys have backed out. I'm just using him as an example. But let's just see Jordan Love make a Pro Bowl. The volume. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends.

Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, S&L's Mikey Day and headwriter, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the I-Heart Radio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On the Look Back at it podcast. From 1979, that was a big moment for me. 84 was big to me. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick you here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it

with our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite authors. Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s. 84 was a wild year. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win.

I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me. Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show.

This is a place for raw, unfilled of conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to The Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes,

follow at Clifford and at TikTok podcast network on TikTok. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human