The Herd with Colin Cowherd - 3 & Out - Mike Commodore joins the podcast

Episode Date: July 10, 2024

John is joined by former NHL player and Stanley Cup winner, Mike Commodore. John and Mike dive into Mike's playing career, the "do's and don'ts" when it comes to fighting in the NHL, if coaches need to know how to skate, a wild story about Mike Babcock, and getting into a fight at a Russian bar, all that and more! 7:22 - Mike Commodore Interview 26:33 - Fighting stars in the NHL 33:19 - Do coaches need to know how to skate 42:33 - His time playing in Columbus 45:16 - Mike Babcock story 1:01:55 - Is it hard to play hungover 1:09:00 - Fighting in a Russian bar Follow John on Twitter, Instagram and YouTube for the latest. Check out Gametime - the fastest growing ticketing app in the US, and the official ticketing app of 3 & Out and GoLow -  for tickets to all of your favorite NFL, NBA, NHL, NCAA teams. Concert and comedy show tickets, too. Go to Gametime now to create an account, download the app and use code JOHN for $20 off your first purchase. #Volume #HerdSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, the Cliver Show.

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$20 entry fee required. Reward expires at contest lock on 9524. See terms at draftkings.com slash DFS. What is going on everybody, John Middlecock, three and out podcast? How's everyone doing? Going with a little curveball today. I heard this guy years ago on a podcast, and it was just incredible. He is Mike Commodore played in the NHL for years Won a Stanley Cup And you just get a microphone in front of him And he will let it fly

So he's he's a beauty He really is I'm not the biggest hockey guy And I can listen to this guy Talk all day long And we'll just kind of talk some big picture stuff And he's got some stories From playing in Russia

His feud with Stanley Cup champion coach Mike Babcock Hates him and he will not shy away from telling you that. So we'll talk to Commodore. Comey, as everyone in the NHL calls him for a little while. And, yeah, I had a fun time recording this a week ago because I love this guy.

But other than that, yeah, you guys know the drill. Three and out podcast, make sure you subscribe. YouTube channel, make sure you subscribe. If the mailbag, we'll get back to that. At John Middokoff is the Instagram, fire in the mailbag. The British Open is only a couple weeks away, so I'll probably, while I'm on vacation, I'll bring my stuff and record a little go-low podcast for sure. So at go-low pod, and any golf questions, well, you know, I'm hot right now,

so you get hit a bet like that in the U.S. Open. We've got to hit it again for the British Open. I think I'm going to lean Scotty. But other than that, yeah, let's let it rip. And speaking, before we get in the mic, I've been to. to one hockey game in my life. And it was at this little arena where the club team in Arizona State plays. And it was an incredible experience.

Partly because you're watching, it was the Arizona doesn't have a team anymore. But the coyotes against the capitals and Ovechkin, and we got right up against the glass. And it was like, God, I should have gone to more hockey games when I lived in the Bay Area and the sharks were good. It's one thing I regret. And if you have a chance to go to a hockey game, I would highly recommend. it because TV, unless it's the playoffs, just probably does not do it justice. And it's easy to do because my friends, my partners, and the official ticketing app of this podcast, Game Time, has you cover.

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J-O-H-N for $20 off. Download the GameTime app today. Last minute tickets, lowest prices guaranteed. Okay, pleased to have on a guy that I listened to on Colt Nose and Drew Sleez's podcast years ago, and I swear I pissed my pants laughing in the car. And ever since I've followed him and watch everything he does because Mike Commodore, who's a Stanley Cup champion

by the way, no big deal. Scottsdale resident. Kami, what's going on, bro? What's going on? Thanks for having me. I mentioned a little bit earlier, but it's my first football podcast. I've never done one of these before, so losing my football virginity here. But no, good to see you, good to chat. Yeah, just hanging out in the heat here, trying not to me and my red hair and fair skin,

trying not to melt. Who do you think is tough for football guys? You've met a lot, probably playing golf with them, or you guys, the hockey guys. You plan ice, so. Yeah, but I think there's more, as far as tougher, I mean, there's more, you know, super, like facial injuries and stuff that hockey players play with. And, you know, the playoffs just ended. Those guys are beat up. But I think, like, football, I think there's way more injuries in football.

Like, I think, like, you know, with those guys running into each other every play and it's, like, a little mini car crash. Like, I never played a down of football on my life. So I can't comment it from a personal, we didn't really play football where I'm from. It was one of those things. There was a high school team and dude, like they were begging for anybody to play. Nobody played football there. Hence why not too many Canadians from Edmonton, Alberta end up.

There's one right now in the league, but that was, he's a sprinter. But I would put it, it's pretty close. I just call it a tie. Well, I'll be honest. I watch more hockey this playoffs. Part of that was gambling. and it was just, the playoffs were, it was remarkable. And that was a high-level playoffs.

Would you agree with that? Just the drama, the intensity? It probably always is, because people always say hockey playoffs are the best. I consumed a lot, and it was like, this badass. But you guys, there are big hits, but they don't happen as much as you would think, like in the video games as they do in a real game, where, like you said, in football, someone is legitimately getting tackled every single play. And some of them are much more vicious than others, but it's every play.

Yeah, like football. Well, like you said, I mean, the only way, that's how plays end, every one of them is somebody gets tackled, right? Of some, and I'm sure some are worse than others. We're in hockey. Now, it does, you know, the physical contact year round used to be more, you know, 15, 20 years ago. There's a little, the game has changed, especially in the last 10 years, where it's more speed and skill and that is kind of more. Now, don't get me wrong, there's still body checks, but it's definitely a little bit less. I also think a big difference that, like I said, I never played a down in football.

But, you know, when you get tackled in football, you're wearing cleats and you're on the turf or in the grass where you're kind of planted, you know, unless you're like you get hit in the wrong angle and your foot's anchored to the ground. You're in trouble. where in hockey, like, you can see a guy get smoked, and it's usually not too, too bad. And I think part of the reason is, you know, is that you're on ice. So your feet, you know, every once in a while, your feet will be planted. You get your foot in a bad spot up against the boards

or, you know, you can't put yourself in dangerous spots, but a lot of times those big hits actually aren't too, too bad. And I think a lot of it's just because you just straight up get run over. So your feet go off the ice and you land on your back and that's not really a big deal. Yeah, one major difference is the fighting, and I was just, I YouTube today some of your fights. I kind of tried to Google it.

I couldn't, do you know career, how many fights? I do not know how many, no. High number, though, high, right? It depends on who you're comparing it to. Like, a lot of people down here in Arizona at the golf club, like, they think I'm like, you know, they know hockey. Mike Tyson. Right, they're like calling me an enforcer.

And I'm like, I, I wasn't really that. Like, if I, I think being an enforcer in the NHL, no those, you know, there are not many of them anymore, if any, but back then, when I turned pro, there were. And you know what? For me, in the game of hockey, I think being an enforcer,

a guy that's there to fight is the hardest job in the world in hockey. Because, I mean, you're not playing that much usually. And when you get on the ice, you're basically expected to fight somebody. Well, you're expected to basically fight the other team's toughest guy. I found that incredibly hard to do if you're not playing. So if you're to look up my fights, whatever it is, I'd say I was about 50, 50. Half of them I got my ass kicked in. And the other half, I did okay.

Every single one of them that I got my ass kicked in was when I was fighting where I, like, kind of felt like I had to. And the ones that I won were the ones that I was fighting because I was, I was pissed off. I was playing and I was pissed off. So that was actually in the beginning of my career, that was actually a big motivator for me when I was in the minors to get better because I'm like, hey, I'm like, I don't want to be the guy, you know, just because of my size. I was 6, 4, 2.30, which is pretty big for hockey.

Like, because of my size, fighting, and I was a defensive defenseman, fighting was expected, but I'm like, hey, look, I got no problems fighting, but, you know, in my opinion, I thought I could play it as well. So that was a big thing, like a really big thing for me in like, okay, I got to become a better skater. I got to make better plays with the puck. I just want to become a better player overall. So, like, I'm viewed as somebody that needs to play as well.

and thankfully I got there. One of the fights I YouTube was Tim Jackman. I think it was a little later in your tour. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. You had a smile on your face. One of the things I wanted to ask you, because like you said, like I want to prove I'm a player, I can help. But like your role, like when it does come down,

like it's not like Sidney Crosby and McDavid are scrapping. So it is what you have to. But there has to be days for like, I don't want a fight or I like this guy. We drink beers and play golf together. How often does that shit happen? Oh, that would happen. like all the time. Like the Jackman fight,

I didn't know him. And that one kind of happened because I, I hit him before. And, you know, that one I was kind of, you know,

he actually. You were smiling. You had a smiling. I was smiling, yeah, because look, I got nothing against Tim Jackman, but I'm like,

I was pretty, you know, I didn't think he could, he could hurt me unless I just straight up, let him smoke me. But he got one. I,

when I watched it after, because I'm bleeding at the end of the fight. And at the end of the fight, I'm like, man, I'm bleeding over my right eye, or left eye, I think it was. I'm like, I don't even think he hit me.

But at the beginning, he like, he kind of like grazed me with something. And I think a piece of his elbow pad or something like cut me open. Anyways, doesn't matter. But no, that would happen. Like, especially with those like enforcers, like those guys by and large, they all know each other. Like, you know, and, you know, it's a small world these days, social media. And, you know, you go to camps and you work out in the summer.

So like, you know, there's a group of guys that train out in Ontario. And like, you're probably going to know. know, like a decent amount. And if you stick around long enough, you know, in a league or stick around pro hockey long enough, chances are you're going to end up out at a bar with the other team that you just played and you're like, 99% of the time, those guys that are tough, the guys that would fight, are the best guys on the team. Like they're the best to be around with.

They take care. Like they're good people. Like they don't, if a random fan were to walk up, you know, up to a superstar or, you know, you never know what you're going to get. Most of the time it's okay, but you're not sure. you walk up to one of those enforcers or tougher guys, and you're going to end up sitting down and having beers with them all night.

So, yeah, like I said, I give those guys credit who did it like, you know, your Sean Thorntons of the world and Brian McGrattons and George Peros and the list goes on and on. I give those guys full mark because that is not an easy job. Well, to me, you brought up a good point. Like, obviously half the fight or half the times you're pissed off. Like, it's like anything. If you're going to get into an argument with your wife or your business partner,

If you're already mad, it's actually easier. If you're like, I'm not in the mood to do this. Right? So if you're not in the mood, but you're like, I don't have a choice. Were those usually the ones you lost or like, I just got to snap into this? Oh, those are the ones I lost. And when I mean lost, like lost 100% of the time. Got your ass kicked.

Oh, yeah. Like my last fight in the NHL was, long story short, I got traded out of Detroit. Thank God. And I knew the end was coming. And I got traded at Tampa Bay. And the kind of deal was Tampa Bay was out of the play. one of the worst teams in the league that year of the first half of the year, but the second half, they were like the third best.

Anyways, we ended up missing the playoffs by a couple points, just because they were so bad at the beginning of the year. But when they traded for them, they said, hey, look, Mike, like, you know, we traded for a couple young defensemen, but as long as we're like, you know, realist, Steve Eiserman, who I'm friends with was like, as long as we're like realistically in this, you're playing. But once we're out, like, I've got to play these young guys.

I go, Steve, I've been lied to for the last two years. I go, I appreciate your honesty. Thank you. That sounds like a great program. So I get to Tampa, we end up winning the first, I think we won our first five in a row. But like the third game was against Boston in Tampa. And Boston had a good team.

And we're up at the, there's like a couple minutes to go in the first period. We're up five nothing. Like this game's over. Yeah, like we're on fire. Games over. And, you know, face off in our end and who comes out, Sean Thornton.

I'd fought Sean Thornton in the minors. Sean Thornton had an incredible, for anybody who doesn't know who he is, had an incredible career. played like 700 games in the minors before he even got a chance in the NHL, which is insane. Most people don't last that long in the minors. And he was there, like he was fighting,

fighting, and then gets a chance, wins a cup his first year in Anaheim, ends up staying in the NHL, wins another cup in Boston. He just won another cup two days ago with Florida. He's in their front office. So I had an incredible career.

One of the most impressive I've ever seen. He comes out and he lines up beside me, he's like, hey, Comey. I'm like, yes, Sean. He goes, come on, man, I need one. I go, Sean, it's 5-0. He's like, come on, man, I need one.

I go, Sean, you really don't. He's like, come on. I go, fine, fuck it. So drop the gloves, bite him. And, like, it didn't, it looks like I got, like, murdered. Like, it doesn't look good. But I actually managed to slip all the punches. So he didn't like, well, before we drop him, he says,

I miss one of the funnier parts of the story. He's like, hey, well, just make it look good. I'm like, all right. Let's go. It's like, WWE. Yeah. And I'm like,

you know, I could throw my rights pretty good. On skates, I didn't have great balance. So what lefts were harder. I could throw both of my feet, but it was a little harder for me on skates.

This guy could throw both hands, which is a big deal in hockey fighting. If you could switch up and throw both hands, like the really good fighters can throw both hands equally as well. He could. So he's talking about thinking, making it look good. So I think he's just,

whatever, we kind of throw some punches, but he starts switching up. He's throwing both hands at me. My jersey rips like horizontally. now it's over my head. I'm like, in my head, I'm like, what the fuck? I'm like, look good.

I'm like, you look good. I'm like, I look like a fucking asshole here. So go in, you know, because there was like a minute left in the period. So go in, I'm sitting because I have five minute each for fighting. So I'm not going to play anymore in the first period. And the guys whom I just met come in, they're like, looking at me like, like they think I just got killed. And I'm like, hey, fellas, it's okay. I'm fine.

He missed me with all of them, believe it or not. And so it went on. But yes, that was when I wasn't mad. I was in trouble. You know, in football, the only fights that happened are really in training camp because in the NFL, you get tossed. And really, the fights in football, everyone's wearing helmets. It's kind of, it's kind of stupid. It is a legitimate part of your sport.

Like, besides just being a tough guy, naturally, probably fighting as a kid or in hockey. Once you got to the show, did you do a little side training to like, I got to make sure my right hooks like Chuck Lid L. I did some, you know what, and it's one thing looking back. If I could do a couple things differently when I turned pro or leading up at any point, I did do, when I was in high school, I boxed. So like I didn't wasn't like on an amateur circuit or anything. And I wasn't doing it like wasn't having boxing matches. But I was going into Edmonton and training with a boxing coach.

His name was Joey. And when I was in North Dakota in the summers, I used to, there was a trainer there that used to train Virgil Hill. So we would box in the basement of a gas station in Grand Forks, North Dakota. So I had the basics down and how to throw a punch And I could make my way around the ring a little bit Which definitely helped me like that was very important I fought a lot in junior when I was like junior hockey

It's you know you can play from 16 to 20 So I played one year when I was 16, 17 years old in in Alberta And I I had a lot of fights that year and you know My dad knew he's like hey we need to you know you're gonna be a target And when I get pissed off I had a short fuse he's like We need to you need to learn how to box so that's what I did. But looking back, you know, I think it would have really helped me, especially confidence-wise with it. Uh, I wish I would, and I still keep telling myself, I got to do it, but it's, I sweat so

much. I'm kind of like nervous to do it. I should have got into like a jujitsu where you're grabbing and you're holding and like, because just as important as throwing a punch is how you grab and where you grab with that jersey is very, very important. And if you had a little bit of skill on like how to grab and kind of manipulate guys and manipulate their arms and hands and body and could use your body weight a little bit on the ice. That would be a massive advantage. So I don't have a kid.

If I didn't, he played hockey, he'd be boxing and be doing Jitsu. Well, it's like those offensive and defensive linemen. Yeah, exactly. Because a lot of it's hitting hands off, keeping them separated. You're tall, so your length is safe to say work to your advantage of keeping them at kind of

at a length where you could control the fight? Yeah, like worst case scenario, like, yeah, that was my greatest. How many guys in the NHL were taller than you? Couldn't it couldn't have been a super long list, right? No, it wouldn't be a long list. Like I would say I was usually, you know, the tallest or at least one of the couple tallest guys on my team. And there wouldn't have been too many.

I mean, there was a handful of guys that were my height or taller, but it wouldn't have been a whole lot. So, like, yeah, like my reach was like, that was my weapon. If I could hold people out where I was comfortable. And then most of the time, you know, they wouldn't be able to get to me just straight up throwing punches. And if I ever got in trouble, that was kind of what, I mean, just I could push off and kind of stay away. But like I said, like if, you know, if I would have been better, that would have been a huge thing to, it would have been a massive skill. And that's a good, like, comparison with lineman.

You know, obviously it'd be more, you know, it's not the hands off thing in hockey. It'd be where you're grabbing, how you're grabbing, how you're using. your body to move them around, that would have been very, very useful. Is it like an unwritten rule? Because forever, I mean, just casually following hockey, Sydney was the best player. And it was like, no one fights him. And now with McDavid, it's, there was a big thing in the, in the playoffs this year, right? The dude for Boston, pasta got attacked by the dude.

And it was like, you're not really supposed to do that. Is that true? Like, and if he's on your team, if you would have to be line, can, are you allowed to double team or is it all just one on one? It's one on one. If it gets into a double team, somebody's definitely getting kicked out of the game and probably suspended these days. Back in the day, it was like before I say it was a free for all. But yeah, there's like, it's like back of when Sydney Crosby started, you know, yeah, you don't, you're not going to like, let's say if we were playing the Pittsburgh Penguins when Sidney Crosby, when he turned pro, it was like, I was my first year in Carolina. It was like my sixth year pro. like let's say I would have went after Sidney Crosby and like fought them, dropped my gloves and went after him.

I would know that from that point forward for the rest of the season and they had two or three guys on Pittsburgh that were heavyweight tough. I would know that for the rest of the season, every time I step out on the ice, one of those guys is coming after me. That's kind of the way that players police the game. Now it's a little bit different, but it's still there.

Like if somebody, Now the playoffs is a little bit different. There isn't really fighting. But like, let's say next year, somewhere to go after Connor McDavid, you know, a guy that's tough that he didn't play the last couple of games because I think he was hurt, but there's a guy on Edmonton, his name's Evander Kane.

He boxes, he can fight. You know, if you were to go after Connor McDavid, he's coming after. Well, there's going to be more than just him. Everybody's going to come after you at first, but whoever their toughest guy is definitely, I mean, you better be able to handle yourself because there'll be people coming.

So basically when I build the team as a GM and I got Sid or I got Connor or whoever, just an elite goal score, I'm building people like you on my squad to balance the thing off. I think even in today's game, I think if I were building a team and I think it is very important to have at least one or two guys, like it's different now. I understand that, but they're still fighting. Like fighting I think actually went up a little bit the last couple years, but it's not the same as it used to be. But I do think it is very, very important to have at least a couple. Now, in today's game, they have to be able to skate, like, they have to be able to contribute. Like, you've got to be able to get around the ice. But I think it's very, very important to have a couple guys minimum on your team that aren't,

that aren't scared and that know how to handle themselves. I would definitely do that for sure. Because otherwise, I remember going up and playing against other teams where it's like, when they have nobody and it's like, well, you know, I'm not going to try and fight Sidney Crosby because he's not, I mean, that's not really what I want to do. But, I mean, I'm going to take free runs at this guy. I'm going to play him harder defensively. And if I get a chance to pop him, like, with a body checker,

and maybe it's a little bit dirty, maybe it's a little bit late. I'm going to do it where, you know, if I know, I might think twice, be like, okay, well, you know, I'm going to hit him, but I know I'm going to have to answer for it. If it's just free reign, then I have no concerns. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying.

Yep. That's me, Clifford Taylor the fourth. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated.

One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about. life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me,

or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games.

Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tapped Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it.

Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just, because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so you all know. I mean, at this point, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now.

Thank you for finishing that sentence. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your Podcasts. Welcome to my new podcast,

Learn the Hard Way with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark.

Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross,

because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth? Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, as we have real conversations about healing,

growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, learn the hard way. Open your free, our heart radio app. Search learn the hard way and listen now. You know, one thing that's unique about your sport, I was thinking about, this might be, you've never been asked this question, I don't know, but I was watching the San Jose Sharks just introduced. I'm from Sacramento area.

They introduced the young guy. I think he's the youngest coach ever. But like a lot of coaches, he played minor league low, but he can skate, right? The dude for Edmonton, Naublock, he played at a low level. What happens, you know, in football, whether I'm fat or skinny as a coach, it doesn't matter. I'm just standing there. What happens if a coach can't skate?

How do they, does that ever happen? Yeah, it does. I had one. And he's actually just got inducted into a hockey Hall of Fame last fall. It very rarely happens. But Ken Hitchcock, so he can hit. Does he wear shoes on the ice? No, so he could put skates on and he could go on the ice and, like, stand there.

And, like, could he, like, slowly go, you know, a few feet? or so, yes, I've never played for a guy that, like, literally had never been on the ice. I don't think that exists. Like, every coach has been on the, at least can put skates on and can, like, go out on the ice without falling. That's kind of a, you have to be able to do that. But Ken Hitchcock, like, he couldn't skate. I mean, and if you see a picture of Ken, Ken's a big dude.

He's always been big, battled his weight and stuff like that. Now, Ken's in the Hall of Fame. I mean, he got, he was an excellent coach. But, yeah, like, there's guys that can't really. he'd be kind of a rare one, but everybody, everybody has been on the ice at some point. Maybe they only played as a kid, but there wouldn't be anybody that's coaching that, like, literally had never played at all. Yes, some of these younger coaches probably skate fine and just at a practice, you wouldn't even notice. But a guy like that, by the time you're playing for him, he's winning and successful, are you still making fun of him?

Like, is he still getting ripped? Because he can't, so he basically just waddles to a spot and probably doesn't move that much during practice, right? No, he wouldn't move at all. And I love Ken. Full disclosure, I love Ken. He won a Stanley Cup with Dallas. He's got, like I said, he's in the hockey Hall of Fame. I really like Ken.

Ken would get all over you, but Ken was one of those guys where like, you could give it back to him. You could call Ken a fat fuck. And he wouldn't, hey, he might get pissed off, but he never took anything personally. And he would give it to you on the bench. That was kind of one of the reasons why, as his career went on, he would just wear thin with guys because he was

great, like he knew hockey up and down and he could be, he would put a great practice together. I think Ken Hitchcock, I've said this a couple of times when I've been asked about him like at events. If Ken Hitchcock didn't have to go behind the bench during the games, if you could just leave him in the dressing room, I think Ken Hitchcock would still be coaching because he, he was excellent with practices, excellent with game planning, excellent with managing people, people liked them. But for whatever reason, the moment you put him behind the bench during a fucking game, whether you were down 5-0-0 or win an 8-0-0-whatever, he just couldn't help himself where, you know,

one guy, every game, it would be somebody, at least one person would make a little play and turn the puck over, play he doesn't like, even if it's not a score, nothing comes of it whatsoever, and he just keep bitching and bitching at the guy, where like, you know, I didn't mind, it didn't happen to me very often. I probably played 120 games for Ken. You know, he came after me once, and we were, when I stood up for a couple of guys because he was wearing thin on some of the younger guys and some young stars.

And so like I was one of the leaders on the blue jacket. So a couple of times I would turn around and be like, hey, Ken, and he'd look at me. And I go, would you shut the fuck up? I go, we're winning this game, five nothing. There's six minutes left in the game. The game is over. Shut the fuck up. And he kind of look at me and then kind of look down.

And then he would shut up for the rest of the game. But he just can't help himself. But a great dude. There's no doubt about it. You told a story recently. It might have been old, but it was on a, I watched, on YouTube. I forget the coach's name, but you guys were as a team, like, in a bar hanging out, and he walked in and you knew right away, like, this is going to be bad.

And listen, in the NFL, when guys get their shot, some guys are just comfortable and natural, and it just can be themselves. And other guys try to be something they're not. We've seen it with the Belichick guys for it. And that always fails. And coaching hockey, most of these guys aren't exactly probably Wayne Gretzky and Sidney Crosby with a playing resume so they're you know they're trying to prove and it's a tough guy sport can you sniff out of and obviously you have some famous stories with babcock but just right whether it's a it's a personal like a guy could know hockey but just be terrible with individuals does that happen a lot assistant coaches do yeah assistant coaches are usually pretty good because they know like your job

one part of your job description as an assistant coach is to be a good guy like your job is not to come down on very rarely. Are you supposed to come down on players? Like, you'll have an assistant coach that runs the D, you know, maybe he runs the penalty kill or however. And like, your job is to encourage and to be a good dude. So I don't remember any instances of like an assistant coach, uh, like, pissing people off really.

You know, that, that was kind of the head coach a little bit. But yeah, like that example. Who's the coach I'm referring to when he walked in? His fucking name is Scott Arneal is his fucking name. just got the head job for the Winnipeg Jets. Scott Arneill is a fucking scumbag. Babs is a bad person. I can't call Babs a loser.

Babs has won some things. I can't go down that road. Scott Arneal is a loser. This guy had a, he had a good, good hockey career. He played like a bunch of games in the minors. He played forever. He played a bunch of games in the American Hockey League. He played like six, 700 games in the NHL.

Like, he had an excellent career. but it took me a while to figure this out, but in his mind, you know, he didn't make the money that he thought he should. So when he got in, when he got his chance in Columbus was his first opportunity to be an NHL coach, he came in with the mindset and we,

it's so just, it's the most disappointing year of my career for sure because we had some good pieces in Columbus. I really think we could have been decent. And this motherfucker came in and his only goal was to and get even. So who's the first fucking target in this guy? You. Me. The guy that I'm the highest paid defenseman in the organization making almost four million bucks a year and I'm single with no kids. I was like 30 years old. So he took

took one look at me and I was fucked and when I first noticed and I was actually excited when he got hired because I'm like okay I'm like one of his assistant coaches was a University of North Dakota guy. That's where I went to school. So I'm like you know when he got hired I texted the assistant coach. I go, can't wait to get this going, like looking forward to it, get through training camp and yeah, I'll never forget, we were all sitting there in the bar, like we weren't even, maybe having

a beer, training camp was over and we were about to go to Sweden because we were opening up the game there, playing a couple games against the sharks. And I remember him walking in, and the moment he, it was like 1 o'clock in the afternoon on a fucking Tuesday or something, there was nobody in there. And he walks in and I remember

he took a look and there might have been a girl bartending or whatever, and he puffed his chest out and his arms went out, and I went, Oh, and I remember thinking in my head. I didn't say anything at the time, but I remember thinking on my head, I'm like, oh, fuck. And sure is shit, this guy, he was fucking arrogant. And anyways, he's managed to, that's one thing that, you know,

I don't know if it's the same. I'm assuming it is the same. It is. It is. It's an old boys club. Once you're fucking in, they just cycle you around. So Scott Arneal gets a chance as a head coach in Columbus, completely fucks it up.

He's fired in a year and a half. the general managers can. Like when I got kicked off the team base, I had a meeting with the general manager, Scott Housen, who now runs the, and Scott Houser is a nice guy. And I had a meeting with Scott. He's like, hey, Arneal doesn't want you here. I go, well, no shit.

He's like, what do you want to do? I'm like, well, I'm not going home. I'm like, just send me down to the minors. At least I can practice. Maybe I'll play a couple games or whatever. Like, I know you're going to buy me out. He's like, yeah, he goes, yeah, you know, it's too bad how this worked out.

I go, it is fucking too bad, Scott. And I go, I'll tell you what? I go, you want to know who looks bad in this, this situation here? He's like, well, I go, I go, I look bad, number one. I go, I'm the highest paid defense in this organization. I can't get on the ice. I go, you want to know who else looks bad, Scott? And he's like, who?

I go, you fucking do because you sign me to this contract. I go, you hired the wrong fucking coach and mark my words. This guy's coming after you too. This guy's fucking power hungry and he's trying to get even. I go, you mark my fucking words. And sure shit, housing was fucking gone in a year or two. Yeah, I mean, that happens all the time in the NFL. And even with success, I mean, these guys behind the scenes, turning on guys, guys they inherit, they don't like.

It's like any good coach, if a guy can play and has had success, why wouldn't you just figure it out? I know. Isn't that their job? Big time. Like, yeah, with the R&O thing, it was like, hey, if I was playing like shit and if I was bad, I would be the first one to say. But I could still play then. and like we had a, like we had, that was my third year in Columbus. My first year, I had my best year as a professional personally.

It was by far my best year. I was number one, two D men playing against the other team's top lines. For the first time in Columbus Blue Jacket history, we made the playoffs. That was a big deal. The next year we had some, I had some growing, I tried, switched up my workouts to try and, because I wanted to feel better. I thought I was doing the right thing. I wasn't, spent a shitload of money to do it.

I had an off year, but I tried to grind through it, growing problems. The whole team had kind of an off year. Hitch gets fired. Everybody gets fired. They bring this guy in. And like, we had good pieces. And that's like my one, like, I could do one thing over. My one do over would be like, go back and do that third year, Columbus over with like a guy that didn't want to just come in and fucking blow everything up.

And like legitimately, which like I don't understand either because it's like, man. Like, if we play well, like, it looks good on you too. like he was fucking yelling and screaming like he's gone on record because i torched him on twitter i don't want to get into the whole babcocks into another one of those fuck that went on forever i don't want to do that again but i did send one thing out and he went oh you know i had maybe a little bit too much bark back then like he's some fucking tough guy i'm like dude you had no fucking bark you wouldn't meet with me i had to fucking force you to meet with me by calling you a chicken shit in front of everybody and i'm like you had no bark the only thing you ever said was you guys are trying to

take money away from my wife and kids. Like he would fucking say that. And I'm like, anyways, like, how do you not clue in where if we can all make this work together? Like, you're going to keep coaching. You're going to get a fucking raise. Like, it looks good on you too.

Like, I don't get it. I've never coached. But I would like to think if I ever did, I wouldn't turn into a fucking asshole. You know, when I first heard you on with those guys, I hadn't known about the whole Babcock situation. you've gone into it a million times. But then if this would have happened in the NFL, what happened to him,

it would have been the biggest sports story in years. The cell phone thing? Yeah, the cell phone thing. Can you, I mean, a lot of people listening probably maybe saw a headline, but don't quite know the details. Because I remember when Biz, Scottsdale guy, put it out there, the organization pushed back right away. The league pushed back.

The union push back. Yeah, everyone pushed. But you had probably, I'm sure, heard some things sitting in the world. wings like, oh, this bad boy's about to. And then he didn't even make it a training camp, correct? No. I mean, I would have to lay out the story a little bit. Okay. So basically

this, you know, Babbs, who, Mike Babcock, who was a successful coach in Detroit, won a Stanley Cup, Team Canada, won a couple gold medals, Olympics. Like, look, we could make the argument that you and I could go coach Team Canada. We're meddling for sure. Even if we've never coached before. We'd just be like,

hey, fellas, just keep going out there on the ice, roll through them. And Team Canada, There's other teams that are good too. Don't get me wrong, but Canada's got a really good team. Yeah. Anyways, gets fired, or sorry, goes from Detroit, gets the biggest job in hockey. It would be like getting the Dallas Cowboys job in football, head coach of the Toronto Maple Leafs.

He's there. I kind of fire some stuff out. I take a lot of heat for it. He's the highest paid coach. It's in Toronto. They got the most fans. Everybody loves the Leafs, blah, blah, blah. Are you playing at the time that you fired those tweets up?

I was retired. I was freshly retired. And anyways, he ends up getting, you know, some things come out. The Leafs don't do well. He gets fired. Some things get out about how he treats people. This guy's like one of the worst human beings. I wasn't even around him much.

And like, you know, I've been begging while this stuff was going on for like somebody come and help me out. Like I barely played for the fucking guy. And I'm the, I'm spearheading this effort to get this guy just roasted. But anyways, it all worked out. So I'm happy to do it. He gets fired in Toronto. He's, you know, still getting paid.

Anyways, his contract expanse. right away. And I fucking knew it too. I'm like, somebody is going to fall in love with this guy's resume and give him a chance. And the day his contract expires at the end of June, the Columbus Blue Jackets hire this guy. So it goes, so this is July 1st. Now he's hired. Training camp starts like fell at September 10th, something like that. So there's the draft at the end of June. This guy gets hired July 1st, whatever it is. And after the draft, they usually have like a little prospects camp where They have all the guys they drafted, and maybe some young guys that they drafted the year before.

And you have a little like, you know, you practice together. There's a little like you learn about nutrition. Just fucking shit like that. It's like rookie mini camp in the NFL. It's very basic. Perfect. Very basic.

Well, this guy, I find out in August, I start hearing some things out of Columbus. Hey, uh, Mike Babcock's been going. And I'm not going to say who told me, but from somebody that I'm like, well, okay, this guy's kind of around. And he's like, yeah, he's like going through guys cell phones. I'm like, what do you mean going through their cell phone?

He's like, yeah, he's having guys in and he's telling them to unlock their cells and he either goes through, like goes through their pictures. Tell us pull up your pictures, he either goes through their photo album or he ties them unlocked their phone, click airplay or whatever it is. So all their pictures are up on the TV that's in his office. I'm like, no shit. I go, you got to be fucking kidding me. This guy just got hired. they're like, yeah, man. Did you even believe it when you first heard it?

Because that sounds insane when you say it out loud. Sounds insane. I didn't believe it at first. But then I'm like, it's Babs. And I'm like, this guy is like, he thinks everybody comes to the rank to watch him coach. Like, hey, I'm the fucking head coach of the Columbus Blue Jax. Oh, you just got picked third or second overall. Hey, I'll tell you what, I'm in charge.

I could totally see him pulling something like that as like a power play. So anyways, I had tweets loaded up. at the beginning of August, ready to fire. And I was sitting there and I'm like, fuck. Like, I'm getting sick of this Babcock shit. And like, you know, I was sick to my stomach when he got hired. But I'm like, you know what? If I fire this shit out, like, anybody who doesn't know me thinks I'm some fucking

ranting and raving lunatic that just spends all my time. Right. That I'm fucking bitter and I walk around the earth fucking with Babs living in my head. Like, they think I'm a fucking fanatic. I go, you know what? I'm just going to let this shit. shit sit and if he's doing it now he's probably going to continue and i'll just wait maybe he'll do it some more and there'll be a time down the road well not even a month later biz came out with that

tweet because some guys had messaged him and he fired it out online and the moment i saw that i was like yes because i'm bisonette and spitting shicklets they have the biggest podcast me they got a platform they have the biggest podcast in hockey like when they say something people hear about it. So once that came out, I was happy to pile on. I'm like, I'm messaging biz. I'm like, I got this and retweeting everything and I'm doing whatever I can. And yeah, it ended up being like, like you said, like the immediate reaction is to push back. So the NHL pushes back. The Columbus Blue Jackets release a statement. The NHLPA even pushes back. And then BIS doubled down, tripled down was like, no, like that's not true. Like I have, that's not true. That's not true.

This is what happened. So they did an investigation and sure is shit. I don't know whatever, like, I don't know all of it by any stretch of the imagination. But I had heard that the thing that broke his back, Babs' back was they had just drafted a kid out of Michigan. Second overall last year. He's a Canadian kid, but very highly touted. His name's Adam Fantilli.

They ended up picking him third. He slipped the third. Big deal. He's an excellent player. And what I had heard is that. that he was living in Columbus in the summer. Babs invited him over for lunch over at wherever Babbs was living in Columbus. So this kid comes over to Babbs' backyard for lunch.

Babs doesn't say a word to him. He says, give me your phone. Unlock your phone, give it to me. He grabs his phone, scrolling through his pictures for like five minutes. The kids were whatever it was. The kid's just standing there. And then he gives it back his phone. He goes, okay, you're good to go.

No lunch, no nothing beat it. And I think that's what, as soon as that kind of came out, they found out about that because he was trying to cover himself and be like, hey, no, like, you know, and with some of the older guys, the veteran guys, he was like, yeah, I'm doing a teen collage. It's good for team building and, you know, do you have pictures and can I get some pictures of your family? Like, if I wanted to make a collage, I'd be like, hey, John, you know, do you have any pictures of your family or your dog or, you know, whatever, you know, can you send them to me? I'm not going to be like, hey, give me your phone or put it up on airplate. Like, like, anyways, but he was doing different things with different guys.

It was a straight up power play. But yeah. He's trying to play mental warfare with these kids. 100%. It's all. Everything to him is. He doesn't care if they got naked pictures or having, it's not even about that. No, I mean, I went online and called him a pervert.

I will say that was probably, you know, I don't think Babs is a pervert. I just kind of said it because I'm like, look, you could say that. I mean, that could be. I don't think that was the case. I think it was just him. It was just a straight up power play. But like, honestly, I don't even know how you would look it up. but I think he's got to be the only NHL head coach to ever get hired and not make it to training camp.

I mean, unless the coach got hired and passed away in the summer, I don't know. But he's got to be. To me, that move, I don't care if you're an NHL hockey player, if you're working at Wals Fargo. You can't push around the dude that's 35 or 40 because they'll push back. But the kid that's 22 that knows nothing and it's just happy to be there at first, they're pretty vulnerable. Hell, you do whatever they tell you to do. I would have gotten naked if the guy would have told me to get it. You know, you just, what are you going to say?

No, you're just, you know. This is your head coach. This guy in a lot of ways is in charge of how your first years are. You're just got to a. Controls your future. And like, hey, this is Mike Babcock. This guy's won a Stanley Cup. He's, I mean, this guy's in charge of how your career is going to go in a lot of ways,

at least at first. And yeah. So it was a straight up power. What's crazy to me is like, you know, he does no hockey. It's like, hey, he's like, like, if he could have just, just don't. Don't be an idiot and just coach hockey. He probably does decent there. You know, they weren't great, but he, I mean, he knows hockey.

So they're probably, to be honest, I put a bet, 500 bucks on the Columbus Blue Jackets. I took the over on their points for the year. And I hate the guy. But I'm like, you know what? They're going to get more than 72 points with this guy. I took the over. And he fucked me there, too, again. I lost that bet as well.

But Carva, you finally won the, I mean, that was validation for everything you've been saying for a Yeah, Gabe said, Matt. You couldn't ever dream that it would have been that good. No, no, when he got hired, I was pissed off because I'm like, man, this guy's going to get another chance. It's going to get more wins. I mean, he's, as far as numbers-wise, he's probably in the Hockey Hall of Fame. But that move alone, not only canned him out of his job, I don't think he's getting into the Hockey Hall of Fame. They're not going to have him.

No chance. One thing, you know, you've told stories about overseas. And I do on a serious note, the one thing that's, I respect, and I think that's the coolest part about hockey is, I guess if you're Sidney Crosby or Connor McDavid, you're not spending a lot of time in the minors, but neither is Bryce Harper or the great players. But most guys kind of got to earn their, you don't just get to go to the show, right? I mean, you got drafted 42nd. Is that the second round? Yep, second round, yeah. You don't just go right to the big club, right? No, no. What's the minor league hockey

experience like? You know what? It's, if I was running a team, one of the first things, and this is, I was drafted by New Jersey. So my coming up was with Lou Lamarillo, was with the Islanders. And, you know, if you look at the, let's say the most successful team, I'll just do the most successful teams in the last, let's call it 25 years, like kind of overall.

Now, I guess the Red Wings have been down, but I'll just do my time period. So from 2000, 2015, the most successful teams were Detroit and New Jersey. We're probably, you know, I mean, Chicago was getting going, L.A. was getting going. But those two teams,

When I was a kid, the devils were always good in the late 90s. I mean, dominant. Dominant. And what was one of Lou Lamarillo's, when he was there, hey, unless you're playing in the minors. It doesn't matter. There was, I can think of two people that went through the New Jersey organization that didn't play in the miners, Scott Gomez and Scott Niedermeyer. Those were the only two guys because they came to camp and they were head and shoulders above everybody. But unless you're head and shoulders, which isn't going to happen very, very much.

often, you're going to the minors. That's just how it is. Hey, you might be there for 40 games. You might be there for two, three years. It all depends on how it goes. I think the miners is, is, I think it's awesome. I think if I was running a team, I would, I would do the exact same thing. Like, unless you are head and shoulders above, you are going to the miners. And look, you can learn how to be a pro there. I mean, it's a, it's a, look, you're not flying private. You're not eating flay mignon. You got to, hey, you got to figure out how, go rent a place. Go get yourself a car. Figure out how to get yourself to practice.

Figure out how to fill your free time. Like, you know, college guys and, you know, junior guys or whatever, you were in high school or you're in college. Hey, now you've got nothing to do. You've got to figure out how to fill your time and not negatively and learn that stuff there. And obviously, there's the on-ice stuff too where you improve. But yeah, the minors was good.

I think I ended up playing like 250 games or so there. Are you screwing around or is it pretty serious with New Jersey, like the game? Like, you can't be showing up to games hungover. and stuff, or you just get weeded out of that organization? Or is it hockey? No, you wouldn't. Yeah, you wouldn't. I mean, look, there's a, hey, if you show up hungover, you better hide it.

And if you're hung over, you better, you better play hard. But you better do that. You don't want to do that very often. So, yeah, I mean, you definitely got to take it seriously. But, I mean, there's also something to be said every once in a while. If you're not playing well, the playing guilty, that's all right. Hey, but you better play hard. A win is a win.

A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined.

And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind. the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment,

and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network, On TikTok.

Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth.

Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tapped Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam Jett.

And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84's big time. to me not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so you all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line.

We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you for finishing that sentence. Yes. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever

you get your podcasts. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field

and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch.

Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth? Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust.

I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, as we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, learn the hard way. Open your free, our heart radio app, Search learn the hard way and listen now. So you have an upcoming fantasy football draft?

Well, then you need to check out the fantasy pros draft wizard. When you sync your fantasy football league with draft wizard, you'll get an instant report that shows you how the rest of your league drafts. You'll see who overdrafts rookies in early rounds, who's going to be the person to take that first QB off the board, and which manager is going to always reach for that hometown player every single time. And then you take those patterns directly into the draft simulator and make your mock draft feel like the real thing.

When your real draft comes around, you're going to be ready. And the draft assistant will be there for you to give you live pick-by-pick insights and expert recommendations of who to draft and when to draft them. You can see all of this and more at fantasypros.com slash volume today. Is it hard to play a game hungover in the NHL? I didn't do it very often. I know I have the N-1 thing and whatever, but I didn't do it very often. and I did it for a stretch of games in Columbus

my second year after we were out and things weren't going well and I'm like, you know, fuck it. Yeah, I would say it's not very much fun. Your energy level's a little bit low until you start sweating. It's kind of a struggle. But, I mean,

I actually think there's a little value to it. Like, if you're in a little bit of a slump or things aren't going real, no, I wouldn't want to, like, this to be your number one option. Like, there's other things you do. But, hey, every once in a while, you go blow it out with the boys and everybody shows up and you're all kind of in the same boat.

And you'll simplify your game, that's for sure. You went to Russia right at the, toward the end of your career? Yeah, my last year, yeah. Yeah, I know that was, was that quite the experience over there? That was, that was an experience. It was a overall, it was a very good experience. When I knew I was done, you know, and going back to the American Hockey League, the minor leagues for, for, for, for, for NHL hockey.

It's a great league. But going back to the American League when you're, you know, 33, 34 years old, that ain't that much fun. So I'm like, I'm going to try something different. And I'd been to Russia because I played in the world championships there once for Team Canada. I had a good time. I mean, there were some long days, but it was a three-week tournament. And I don't know, I thought it was kind of cool.

So that was kind of the only place that I was interested in playing. But yeah, it was, I played on an expansion team in Vladivostok. The only reason why I got a contract, there was a team in Belarus. when I in that so it would be about end of July I'm like okay I'm interested I hire a Russian agent he's like Belarus Mink wants you I go okay perfect so I sit around and wait for a fucking contract this is now it's August 1st we get into the September 1st I'm like hey yeah it's coming it's coming middle of September now like all the NHL training camps have started like I

could have got a tryout somewhere now it's too late and I'm like all right so I trained all summer Minsk isn't calling anymore so I'm like so the assistant coach my first year with the New Jersey Devils was a guy named Slava Fatisov, Hockey Hall of Famer, played like forever, won Stanley Cups, played for the Red Army, has a great documentary. If you're ever looking for something to watch,

watch a documentary called Red Army. It's fantastic. This guy is like, if there's one hockey player, actually one person on Earth, hockey player for sure, that I would like to know what his bottom line is. Like, I'd like to go into his bank account, be like, what is this guy worth?

That guy for me is Slavis. Fetisov because he is Putin's boy. He went, he retired, he went back to Russia. He was like Minister of Sport. Then he was a politician. And I would love to know what this guy's What would you get what would you get? What would you guess? Well over hundreds of millions. I'm thinking billions. Yeah. He's one of those dudes, the oligarchs, they were all trying to take their shit that you know, he's Putin's boy. So like like, like you know, I know him as Slava. that would skate me after practice. Like, I know him from New Jersey.

He would call me Misha. I'd call him Slava. You'd yell at me. I'd skate harder. So I called him, first time I talked to him in like 15 years and call him. And I'm like, hey, Slava, it's Mike Commodore. He's like, ah, Misha, Misha. I go, hey, I want to play in Russia.

Can you give me a contract? He's like, ah, Misha, you good guy. Okay, just hangs up the phone. I'm like, what the fuck? Next day, contract offer, Vladivostok. So I sign it. And I had a general idea of, you know, I had a general idea of, you know, Russia a little bit. I'm like, Vladivostok. Like, where the fuck is Vladivostok? I pull it up on Google

maps. Vladivostok is like 60 miles from North Korea on the Pacific Ocean. So other than one other team, the rest of the league is... East. Yeah, way west, way west. Oh, gosh. Yeah. Yeah, going straight west. So like, anyways, long story short, like, our road trips, we go on the road every eight days. We'd play four games at home, four on the road, four games at home, four on the road, which was crazy. We should have went on the road for like six weeks. So our, like, just to start the road trip was a 10-hour flight just to get it going. Nine time zones, it was crazy. But we made the jump by the, didn't you get jumped by the Russian mob or something over there? I don't know if it was the Russian mom. Can you tell that story?

Sure, yeah. So this was like, this was the year of the Sochi Olympics. And we were, we had seven games left in the season. We had three, there was a four-week break for the Olympics. And yeah, sorry, four week break for the Olympics. We just got back from a road trip. We got this break. And then we have three games after the Olympics. And we're like kind of close to being in the playoffs. Anyways, long story short.

I get off the plane. I got this little department in downtown Vladivostok. I had a driver there. You have to have a driver there. If you don't have a driver, you're going to kill yourself. Like there's no rules on the road. You have to hire a driver. Like a North American guy, you're dead for sure.

You're in an accident, bare minimum. So I had to drive the driver. A full-time driver costs like 500 American a month. It was unbelievable. Wow. Whole-time driver. Like, Texas guy, whenever I wanted on you. Waited on you.

Yep. I texted old Igor, didn't speak any English. Just text him, like copy, paste through a little app. He'd be, he was reliable. He was great. He cried when I left. He loved that. You should have brought him over to Scottsdale with you.

I should have. He might have been a little overwhelmed here. Yeah. So we get back on like, you know, I, I get back to my apartment after one of these trip, a flight's back from Moscow. So I'm jet lagged. It's like five o'clock at night, but I'm like, I want to go to bed, but I'm like, I know I can't.

And so these couple of Russians guys like, hey, let's go for dinner. Okay, so go for dinner. This very nice restaurant in downtown Vladivostok, French place called the Brasari. On North American standards, it's like a four or five star restaurant. Really nice. And it's packed. So the three of us go in there. I don't end up eating a whole lot of food.

I pound a whole shitload of beers and some shots of vodka. I definitely got a good buzz on. Kind of the dinner finishes up. I get the tab and I go to walk out the door. One of the guys is in the bathroom. And there was like kind of a little brick hallway to get out of the restaurant. Next thing I know, I am getting like teed off on by two dudes. Like just straight up, I get suckered and they're just basically feeding me my lunch.

One guy right in front of me, one from the side. I sober up quick. I'm like, what the fuck is going on? Like I didn't say anything. I didn't do anything. Like what was I going to say? Nobody there speaks anything. and I don't speak Russian.

Like, nobody's going to understand what I say anyways. So I push one guy off, break the guy's nose in front of me, and then I grab the guy and we go flying back into the restaurant. Long story short, it is a full-blown brawl. People are getting up, screaming, running out of the restaurant. I'm throwing chairs. There's cutlery fucking flying. I'm throwing punches.

I'm kicking. Fight probably goes on for like, I don't know. Probably like two, three minutes. Like it was a decent amount of time. So you're kind of winded, but you're just trying to survive. Oh, yeah. I mean, as far as I'm concerned, I'm fighting for my life. Like, I don't know what the fuck.

You guys might knife me. I don't know. And the end of the fight comes, and I'm in a headlock. One guy's underneath me, and he got me in a headlock and a chokeholder or whatever. And I'm like trying to reverse head bottom to try and catch his nose or something. And his buddy's like booting me in the side of the head. And here's sirens. This guy lets me go.

I roll off. They're gone. They bolt out the door. So I should have taken a picture. It's one thing because now I'm totally sober. And I like pick myself. I kind of tweak my knee too. I didn't tell them anything about that.

But I pick myself up off the ground and I like look around and like nothing like the windows weren't broken or anything. But like this fucking restaurant is a disaster. There's nobody left. It's like a movie scene. Oh, it's like a movie scene. Staffs in the corner, scared shitless plates, plates, knives, fork all over the fucking place. And I like, I'm like, what the fuck? I should have taken a picture, like a panoramic one.

So I stumble out of the restaurant, thrown in the back of the cop car, and they took me to like, I guess what would be the equivalent of like the drunk tank or whatever at the police station. I was in there for a couple of hours. The one other Russian guy who spoke English, he helped in the fight as well, Ilya Zubov. He played a little bit for Ottawa. He spoke English as well. He started calling people, which was a mistake.

He called the team. But then he started calling, like, his, which I'm assuming is his, like, mob buddies. Anyways, to finish the story off, I'm sitting in prison with like a bunch of Mongolian-looking motherfuckers in here because we're like on the other side of Mongolia and China. Yeah. China in the ocean. I'm sitting in there. I'm like, man, I got to get the fuck out of here.

And there was like this dude in a leather jacket. I thought he was an undercover cop. He was like kind of walking by and looking at me. And I'm like, I just figured he was an undercover cop. He wasn't in uniform. And after a couple of times, he just stopped in front of the door, jail door, opened it up. He's like, Misha. And I'm like, duh.

yeah. I'm like, duh. And he like, waves me over. I go, so I get up, follow him, follow him right out the front doors of the police station, right back to the bar. And that was it. Did you ever play another game for the team? Yeah, no, we won our last three games. I got fined a month's pay, which was like 40 or 50 grand American. And the deal was, they wanted to kick me off the team before, because all this shit, I'm like, good luck. I go, you guys need to win all three games. I go, good luck. Kick me off the team. I go, I'll go home right fucking now. I go, that's fine with me. Good luck winning the rest of the games. So one of the guys was a, he was a gangster. He had prison tattoos over his hands, didn't understand hockey, but loved it when I'd level

somebody once in a while. He's like, in Russian, they're chatting, right? Because they don't speak any English. I'm getting interpreted through one of the players. They're like, we're not kicking you off the team. You're fine, we're finding you a month's pay. I'm like, all right, you guys owe me a month's pay, but they're like, we need cash. There's one thing that there's a couple things with Russians. Two things. They care about. Rubles, they care about money and don't ever embarrass them in front of women. Those are the two things that don't, those are the two most important things to Russians. So anyways, I end up, we need the money. I'm like, well, you guys owe me? We know, we need cash. I go, okay, I'll bring it tomorrow. So I go down, I run down to my bank.

And I get, so at the time, it was like, I think it was like, 950,000 rubles in, you know, I'm jamming them in my winter coat. I'm like, I'm going to get jump for sure when I'm running out of this bank. I run as fast as I can back to the bank. They're blowing my phone up. Like, we need the money now. I'm like, hey, dude, I'm not calling my driver. We have practice tomorrow.

So I give them the money. So the deal was I get fine to months pay. But if you make the playoffs, if we make the playoffs, I get the money back. I'm like, okay. But I'm like, all right. I doubt that it's going to happen. But fine. I go deal.

And so anyways, we win our last game. Place is going crazy. Like they never seen anything like this before hockey and Vladivostok. Like I said, it was an expansion team. So we get back into the room, I'm just screaming about rubles. I'm like, rubles, what are my rubles? And you know what? To their credit, the guy went and got the rubles.

He gave me everything back except for $3,000 American equivalent rubles, whatever that was. He kept that because the police station wanted a new TV. You know it's pretty cool. It was pretty cool. is like, one, you could make a little decent coin over there, but like, where could you have ever got that experience in your life if you hadn't done that? Not even not in the fight, but just being in these towns and Russia, seeing this society that doesn't have rules, a small percentage of people run everything. It's like the cartel in Mexico or whatever, right? It's just, it's nothing like Scottsdale or Vegas or Miami or Dallas. Is that even comparable? No. It was a great experience. I'm glad I did it. There were definitely some long days. but you're right like i say what russian people your average russian is a good dude like i like the russians i enjoyed the guys i played with like they're good dudes i like the people around town i got treated well babes but it's yeah they don't age well but yeah they all they do is smoke and eat lettuce um

but you know once they get into like the ones that are once they're in charge it's just like automatic that they just fuck you. And like the people just take it. And I'm just coming from the like the hockey team. We were supposed to get paid on bonuses and they'd be late on payments. And I'd be like, hey, you know, I'm used to North America where it's like, hey, my fucking paycheck should be there on, you know, the 15th and the last day of the month. And it'd be late to month.

And I'm, and they're just like, ah, Russia. I'm like, all right. Anything goes. Okay. I get you out here on this. You won a Stanley Cup. Yeah. You know, you, it was game seven.

too. It went to game seven, right, that series? It was almost a carbon copy of what we just watched against Florida, except we were up 3-1, not 3-0, against Edmonton, too. Same situation. So that feeling, when they come and storming back and then you're in game 7, are you nervous as hell that whole day? Does that day feel like forever getting to the game? I mean, are you terrified that you don't want to be in the wrong part of history, right? Right. Yeah, you know what? For me,

like, we were up 3-1 with Game 5 at home. You're playing a lot, right? I was playing a lot. Yeah, I was playing. You know, I was one of the one or two top minute defensemen. I'm playing a lot. I was a big part of it. You know, game five, we're in overtime on the power play. Our power play was sick. I wasn't the power play. I was on the penalty kill. I'm like, there's a 30% chance of this is over. They score shorthand. Now we go back to Abington. They kick the shit out of us in game six. Game six was over in the first five minutes. I'm like, is that place nuts? I mean, on TV, it seems like berserk. Yeah, so yes, it is. Like both, they're now in a new rank, which is way night. Yes, the short, and they love hockey. There it is bananas. There's no doubt about it.

And so we go back for game seven. And I will say to answer your question, I wasn't, I wasn't nervous. I was excited and the hardest part was waiting to get the game started. I was excited. Like, I, there was no real nervous. Like, obviously, I really wanted to win and losing would have sucked. but I was confident in our team. I didn't know for sure if we'd win by any stretch of the imagination,

but I was very excited to like, hey, let's get this going. I can't wait. And yeah, thankfully it worked out. It was a tight game. I think it ended up being, we won 3-1 with an empty netter. Thankfully for us, we scored a goal like three, four minutes into the game, so we were up one right away, and then we were up to nothing. And then they scored a goal in the third period, I believe it was.

And then our goalie had, if you were to look it up, one of the best saves in NHL history, or playoff Stanley Cup history, our goalie saved which would have tied it up at 2-2 and then we scored an empty net and that was, the game was over, but yeah, it was definitely great experience. But like I said, a lot of

correlations to the series that just happened. Instead of Florida, it was Carolina, and it was the same situation against Edmonton. We were up 3-1. We didn't blow a 3-0 lead, but what was that night like? You know what? We, I mean, it was awesome.

It was, you know, we won. They actually changed some rules after because we won. And I didn't have my parents there just because they wanted to come. My dad came to game five. But they were going all, I'm from Edmonton. So they were going to all the games in Edmonton. So it worked out great that way. But, you know, if we would have lost game seven, I was like, hey, like, I'd love for you guys to be here.

But if it doesn't work out, I go, I'm not going to want to see anybody. And I go, look, I just want to do things how I've done them, which is by myself and my parents were awesome and they're like perfect good luck have fun we'll be watching on tv so after we win i'm like fuck kind of be nice to have my parents here but um anyways there was a ton of people on the ice i mean obviously raising the cup it was awesome um the kind of funny story i have from so i'm standing on the ice cups getting passed around that was awesome there was a flood of people on the ice like i mean there was obviously immediate family but there was like uncles i'm like who the fuck are happy people everybody's like congratula i'm like thanks thanks thanks

So I'm standing there, just kind of taking it all in, and I get a tap on my shoulder behind me. Hey, Mike, congratulations. And I turn around, just figure it's like somebody's uncle or something. And I'm like, yeah, thanks, man. And I'm like, oh, shit. I'm like, kid rock. And so kid rock was on the ice. I love kid rock.

And he's like, oh, call me Bob. I go, Bob, I go, he's like, hey, congratulations. I go, hey, fuck that shit. I go, thank you. But I'm like, man, are you going out tonight? He's like, yeah, you want to come? I'm like, yeah, I want to come. He's like, all right, you're in.

So now I love Kid Rock. We go into the dressing when the place was packed. And then they kick everybody out except for players and staff. And it was awesome. Like, don't get me wrong. You know, guys are giving speeches. We had some veterans on that team that had been in the league for like 15 years

that had never won before. And so it was awesome. But the whole time I'm sitting there and I'm like, God damn it, Kid Rock ain't going to wait for me forever here. Did he leave? I did a shower. I need to go.

I know. I'm like, hey, can we do this tomorrow? I want to get the fuck out of here. And it ended up. The speeches went too long. Red Rock left. And so I just, we all ended up getting just wasted right at the rank.

We had a little thing for us up in the, up in the arena. It was a good time. What'd you do with the cup the day you get it? We had, so there was another guy, Ray Whitney's his name. He lives in Scottsdale as well. We're from the same little hometown.

So we kind of split three days, but my official time with it, I got, took it on a pub crawl. My parents at the time lived right outside of Edmonton, and Eminton Calgary is a big rivalry. and I used to play in Calgary before. And I was, I'd never really, I spent my time in Calgary and I'm like, look, I, you know,

I had some buddies from home come over, rented a party bus. I go, look, I go, we're not going out in Eminton. I go, you animals are going to get, by this time, I had already been to like 10 or 12 of these fucking cup parties. So I knew how it worked. As soon as one person puts one drop of booze in that thing, it's on for everybody around. So I go, look, I got some buddies from home that are total savages. I go, look, I go, we're going to go out to the bar here in Ementon.

somebody's going to say something to me. One of you guys is going to get pissed off and it's going to end up in a fucking shit show. I go, we're going to take a party bus and we're going to Calgary. Nobody's going to bother us there. We'll have a nice time. So I did that.

We did a pub crawl in Calgary. And then a couple days later, when I was in school, the Dallas Stars won in 1999. And Ed Belford played for the University of North Dakota. And he brought the cup back. And I was there at the time. And I thought that was cool.

So I remember thinking like, you know, I never thought it was actually going to happen. But I'm like, you know, if I was ever lucky enough, I'd like to do that. So on one of the days, a couple days after my pub crawl, North Dakota has a big flight school there. So they were like, hey, I just said, hey, look, I'd like to bring the cup. They're like, okay, great, but I'm like, hey, I'm not flying commercial to fucking Grand Forks. It's not going to work. It'll take forever.

You've got to send a plane. They're like done. So a guy came and picked me up, picked my family, my parents and stuff up. It was really fun. On a serious note, obviously everyone knows the Stanley Cup, whether you fall hockey or not. A kid from Canada, you play college hockey to one day be a Stanley Cup and have that thing with you for a day with your friends. I mean, was there ever a moment where you're like, I can't, this is, this feels like a dream. Yeah. Yeah, it definitely was. Like, there was a couple moments, like, before game seven, when you, you know, you're actually like, this is it.

Like, somebody's winning the fucking thing tonight. That was a moment. Once it, you know, I remember I was on the ice when we scored the empty netter. We scored the empty netter with like a minute to go. to go up to. That was another moment. Um, on the ice, like raising the cup. I, you know, it's, you know, people ask and I'm just like, man, I'm like, I don't even know how to describe it. It's a great feeling, you know, you always, you know, growing up where, where I grew up and, you know, most people, if you were into athletics, you played hockey, it's fucking freezing up there. And,

you know, you always a lot of kids who dream about winning the Stanley Cup. For it to actually happen, it's hard to put into words. And then, yeah, like the cup parties and stuff like, that they were a lot of fun it was it was nice to you know my parents can enjoy it and you know buddies and stuff and mine from home and you know people that helped me out along the way it was it was nice to put a little get together there and and people can have a good time and yeah it was i mean i wish it would have happened more often but at the end of the day i'm lucky it happened once you know i've been following the uh the sharks got the number one pick and the kid celebrini whose dad is the trainer for the warriors yeah uh so they it seems like a cool story

you, but for every Connor, McDavid, and Sidney Crosby, we see this in the NBA a lot, all this hype, and then because you've got to go to the minor, it's hard. Like, is that, you know, Connor and Sid are clearly the outliers, but do you know anything about this guy? I'm pretty fired up. I mean, I kind of want to be. And just, why is it so difficult for this guy, all these guys, all this talent, and then they get there, and then random guys end up becoming stars in the NHL,

and those guys never amount to shit. Yeah, it's, you know. Kind of like football, right? I mean, guys in six, seventh round, Brock Purdy, Arizona guy, all of a sudden, he's leading team to Super Bowl. 100%.

I think a lot of it is, you know, at the end of the day, it's like, you know, obviously you're Connor McDavid's. I mean, this Celebrini kid from, and I didn't know until recently that he's actually from the area there, which is really cool.

That's awesome for San Jose. You know, at the end of the day, I think that's, you know, you're drafting kids that are 17, 18 years old. Like, you don't really, like, sure, there's some of them you're pretty sure about. I get it. You know, the first overall guy.

maybe there's a couple others in there. I think there's a multitude of things that can go into it on how it doesn't work, whether it's, you know, maybe, maybe the guy's kind of, you might not be the right spot for him. Maybe he doesn't fucking, you know, hey, playing junior hockey, playing against boys and playing against men, that's two different things. I mean, you, there, that's a, that's a different world. I think there's, there's, there's a lot that can go into it.

I think for most guys, like, I mean, for my draft, I was drafted in 1999. If anybody who knows hockey, you look up that draft. That's the worst draft in fucking hockey history. I mean, I played half of the first round. I was drafted in the second round. Half of the first round didn't even play like, like 20 games. Like, so that was a complete bust of a year.

I mean, it's not like I had the greatest career ever. I played just under 500 games. I stuck around for a while and I won, like, proud of what I did. But it's not like I had a Hall of Fame career. were to redraft my draft, I'm going top 10. In between 10 and 15 for sure. There was a point there where I might have been inching towards like top five. So it's, there's a lot that goes into it.

Um, a lot of luck. And like you, you got to get in a good situation. And I think some of it too, like we, and we touched on it earlier. Hey, look, this Macklin Celebrini from everybody, you know, I watched a game or two that he played, he played for BU. But like, I didn't watch them nearly. enough to have an opinion. But like, you know, there's lots of these teams, too, that you draft these guys and there's pressure, like, you draft the guy in the top five or, oh, he's a high first

round pick and fans are like, you know, to me, it's kind of like a quarterback thing. You know, I don't know shit about football, but it's like, I don't get why you know, you pick these quarterbacks, let's say, and they go high because it's a quarterback and it's the most position, important position on the team, I think. And it's like, well, they need to play. They need to play. Well, what if the fucking guy isn't ready? Like, let, I don't understand. why you rush these guys in here, and chances are if they got picked high, they're on a shitty fucking team.

The difference is in football, like in hockey, your NHL contract doesn't start until you get to the, to the NHL, right? Your contract would start, well, it would start the moment you sign it. So if you sign a four or five-year contract as a rookie, if you're in the minors for five years, you're getting paid, whatever you're drafted in the first round.

They don't have your rights once you get up there moving forward. If your contract's up. When you, when you get drafted out of the NHL, when you sign an entry-level deal, It has to be a three-year deal. So it'll be a three-year deal, and there'll be two salaries. So they'll be like a million dollars. It'll be a two-way contract that's called.

You're making a million dollars if you're in the NHL, and you're making $75,000 if you're in the minors. And let's say you're going up and down, like they have that broken down per day, if that makes sense. But if I'm Salabrini, I draft him one overall, and he spends three years in the minors. After that third year, is he a free agent? No.

See, in the NFL, you know, your contract, there's, because there's no minor leagues, it just starts. So there is a clock, right? And it's like you become a true free agent or you got to, you know, extend. It's a little, it's not, you guys, I think are closer to baseball in the sense of some of that. Sure. Yeah. Time served or whatever like that. Because you can send back and forth, there's none of that.

So you are on much more of a time crunch. Okay. But like you said, I mean, historically, you and I probably. similar ages. When we were kids, guys would spend multiple years on the bench. Like Brett Farve didn't start right away. Right. Steve Young, you back up. Aaron Rogers backed up.

It's how it works in college. A lot of times a guy makes a deep breath. You red shirt. But in the NFL now, the pressure has clearly amped up. Mahomes as well, right? He was a year or two on the bench. Sad a year. Sad a year. Yeah. I mean, there's Jordan Love. Like, he finished the year pretty good, right? Hell yeah. You had three years. Yeah. So I get the time crunch thing. But, you know, he's a year. God, it's like, man, you fire, it just seems like you fire some of these guys in and they get fucking killed. I mean, you're not playing everybody, I would assume, you know, everybody that's out there on that NFL field was one of the best players on their team in college.

There's no one hundred percent, slow guys, you know, out on the field in NFL where, you know, I don't care where you are in college. There's going to be some guys that, you know, you could probably abuse a little bit or run past where you're not, you know, if you're a quarterback, you ain't running past everybody. These guys, these guys are moving. What do you got on tap the rest of the summer? You got golf trips? I know you're a big golfer. Yeah, I got a couple little things. I've got to go to the Calgary Stampede next week.

It's a big thing in Calgary. It's a big rodeo, one of the biggest rodeos in the world. But basically it's like basically the entire time with Calgary's hammered for 10 days. So I got to go ride a horse in that. I knew one of my, one of my, she's now my fiancee, her good friends was dating a Canadian. Last year, I think went up to that and said it was incredible. It was one of the best parties she's ever been to. I'll tell you what.

It is, I'm not going to sit here and recommend a whole lot of things you should go do in Canada. I'm not going to sit there and pump the tires like that. There's some nice spots in Canada. Don't get me wrong. But there's lots going down in the States too. But I would highly recommend going to the Cal. Even if you don't, I don't know shit about rodeo. That doesn't matter.

You can go to the rodeo if you want. Every day is there's a rodeo. There's like the Bulls, the Bronx, the barrel race and all that in the after. And then they have the chuck wagon races at night. And you can go to that. It would be if you're going to go up, I would say, yeah, go there for go there for an afternoon or an evening just to check it out. But all day, there's the bars, there's tents, massive tents.

There's all the big country music shows are there. Basically, the entire core of downtown Calgary is getting after it for 10 days. It's fun. That's awesome. Well, enjoy that, enjoy the golf. and I'm going to Tahoe for about three weeks, but when I get back, I got to hit you. I owe you some beers.

I can't appreciate it. You don't know. We can meet for beers. Yeah, I want to meet you for some beers. Yeah, we can do that. Here's some more of these Russian stories, bro. There we go. I got a few more.

You're the man, Mike. I appreciate it. Have a good couple weeks. Yep, we'll do. Thanks for having me. The volume. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite.

Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter.

Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year.

Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, this is Robert from the Stuff to Blow Your Mind podcast. Joe and I are both lifelong Star Wars fan, and so we're celebrating May the 4th with a brand new week of fun, thought-provoking Star Wars-related episodes.

Join us as we tackle science and culture topics from a galaxy far, far away, such as the biology of taun tons and wampas on the ice planet hot, or the practicality and corporate business sense of the Sith rule of two. Listen to stuff to blow your mind on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying.

Yep, that's me. Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Cliford Show. This is a place for raw,

unfills of conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to The Cliford show on the IHeard Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes,

follow at Clifford and at TikTok podcast network on TikTok. This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human.