The Herd with Colin Cowherd - 3 & Out - NFL League Meetings Reaction Day 2: MNF Doubleheaders are no more, Thanksgiving Eve Games, NFL Flag Football

Episode Date: April 1, 2026

A thought-provoking episode of 3 & Out diving into league decisions, evolving trends, and bigger-picture conversations around the NFL. The show opens with the reported cancellation of the Monday Night Football doubleheader and what it says about the league’s scheduling priorities. From there, a look at the continued push into NFL flag football and how the league is expanding its reach at all levels of the game. The conversation shifts to the idea of NFL games on Thanksgiving Eve, breaking down the potential upside and whether the league is pushing the calendar too far. Mike McCarthy’s comments on Aaron Rodgers and Will Howard are also discussed, offering insight into quarterback evaluations and expectations. The episode wraps with a broader discussion on nepotism in football, examining how it shows up across coaching staffs and front offices, and whether it ultimately helps or hurts the league. All that and more on this episode of 3 & Out. Follow John on Twitter, and Instagram for the latest.  All lines provided by Hard Rock Bet #VolumeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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What is going on, my people? How are we doing, John Middellcop? That would be me, three and out podcasts. That would be this show. And we got a lot going on. A lot of stories. coming out of the owner's meetings down the street. No more double-headers.

Flag football might not include pro players anymore. The Lions doing business things that make you shake your head. Mike McCarthy had some comments on everyone's favorite quarterback, Will Howard, to all sorts of stuff. So we're going to dive deep. It's a meaty podcast. Fired up to talk some football. You guys know the drill.

If you listen on Collins feed, make sure you subscribe to three and out. separate feed, we will have you covered. If you want to watch it, we're up on Netflix, make sure you go check that out, appreciate everyone that has. But I do want to start with the NFL making a change. They will no longer have the doubleheader Monday night game. And me personally, I hated it. Now, I hated it for, you know, I was biased

because I, from a fan standpoint, Monday night, Thursday night, Sunday night. I've always believed, listen, I'm a traditionalist in the sense of when I was a kid in the 90s, Monday night football was a really big deal. It was a standalone game. Hell, early on in the 90s, we didn't have cable where I lived. So Sunday night football with Paul McGuire and Joe Thaisman, I didn't get to watch that unless we went over to my grandma's house. Honestly, probably for the first 12, 13 years of my life, I didn't even know it existed.

And Thursday night football was not a thing. So playing on Monday night, especially as a young Niner fan when Steve Young and Jerry Rice were on, back then the great AFC rivalries with John Elway and the Kansas Chiefs and Schadenheimer's dad and Derek Thomas. It was awesome. It was a really big deal. You get up from school. You don't really want to do your homework. You throw that bad boy on and it felt special.

So when they started doing the double header, it felt like it diluted it a little. bit. Now, I understand in business, you always have to try new things. It's what we do here. You know, in my business, it's what a lot of you guys do. It doesn't mean everything is going to work. And I'll never forget a story that I was told early out of my podcast crew. We got out of radio and Guy Haberman, who's come on this show before, who's a Big Ten broadcaster, who was the voice of the Niners last year, as Greg Papa fought leukemia, star behind a mic when it comes to calling a game. And we had started this podcast, left the radio show, and we'd kind of just built it around the 49ers. And we started from scratch. Like, we went into business. We had no revenue.

We had to get our own advertisers. And eventually it started to get them rolling. We'd get 5K here, 10K here. And eventually we had a listener who worked for Tidos, Devin, who reached out and was like, hey, would you guys be interested in sponsorship? And it was like, by far the biggest thing we'd ever done. And we went to lunch with him. He's a great guy. We became good friends with him. And he told us the story of Tito. And for those of you that drink the alcohol, Tito comes from Tito beverage is the guy that started it. That's his name. That's where they got the name Titos. And his story is fascinating. He's by far the biggest independent alcohol owner in the world. I mean, all these big brands that you drink, whether it's beer, whether it's hard alcohol, whether it's

wine are typically at this point in time owned by these large conglomerates. Tidos has denied selling that for a long time and now is a multi-billion dollar operation. But early on when he was starting out, as the story was told to me, he was in like a mini-mart or like a 7-Eleven. And he was trying to pitch his booze. And at the time, he was making flavored vodka, right? Strawberry, vanilla, doing stuff like that. And the guy at the counter grabbed a and said, Tito, follow me. He said, lick your finger. And he went across, because remember forever, like, Smirnoff made all those flavored vodkas. And he said, look at all these. Touch all these. He said, what do you see on your finger? And Tito looks and he went, dust.

He said, yeah, no one touches them. Don't outthink the room. Make a good vodka that people will like. And obviously, he made Tito's and the rest is history. And I think sometimes, and I'm guilty of this too, Sometimes we outthink the room and we do things. I never have a problem with anyone trying something out. But when it's clear, like, this is not a good idea. And to me, the doubleheader on Monday night was outthink in the room. It wasn't necessary. It diluted the product.

It took away from what made Monday night football one of the greatest sports properties of my lifetime. It was extremely important when I was a kid and it is still extremely important to this day. especially Dowell with Joe Buck and Troy Aikman on the call, just like it was forever with Mike Toriko and John Gruden. It's really mattered over the Internet era. And I think when you went with the doubleheader, it was like, how do we get more viewers? How do we up the number?

Well, here's the reality. In the NFL, the guy behind this talked about it. He said, you know, it turns out people didn't like it. And you know what? And here's where I give the NFL credit. They will try things, and when they do not work, they will pivot and they will scrap them. And we will no longer have the doubleheader.

And like I said, I'm biased. I talk about these games for a living. So it is easier for me on Monday night just to take in the one game and then do a podcast about it after. It's a little bit of a pain, especially how they staggered the games, to try to watch two games,

which in theory are really important. And I also, just as a fan, if I sold insurance or does, ditches, I wouldn't like it either. Because even if, quote, unquote, my team is not playing, I just want to sit down and enjoy the New England Patriots playing the Buffalo Bills. I want to watch the Rams play the Green Bay Packers. I don't want to have to flip back and forth because the majority of humans don't have

multiple TVs. And listen, I got an 85-inch screen TV in my living room, which at the time, especially when I grew up, big screen TVs were like the size of a suburban. So now they're thin, they're easy. You get an 85 inch TV. If you got a big wall, you're like, guys, kind of small. I've kind of regretted it since at the time when I bought it. The 85 inch TV was like, I don't know, $1,500. And the basically 100 inch TV was like $8.00. So I was like, I'm not spending $8,000. And now they're way cheaper. Story for another day. But when you do the double box, you get a lot of wasted area. Like I like watching on my primetime game, Sunday night, Thursday night, and Monday night, just the one game.

So I give the NFL credit for realizing something is like, this isn't going to work. We can argue about the international game, but I do understand where they're coming from because they go, how many more people in America are we going to get to watch football? Are we close to capped? And the answer is probably yeah. I mean, you kind of got the market cornered. You're the biggest sport by a mile. You've grown dramatically with women.

And now the flag football push, which we'll get into a in a minute, is going to help. But like, they're not going to gain another 20% market share in America. So they look at these other international leagues and they go, can we just dabble and add some people, especially with getting in business, with Netflix, with some of these streamers, where people have access to it all over the world. So whether I like it or not, don't love it. Do I acknowledge that I would rather not have a game on the West Coast start at 6.30 in the morning? Yes.

Is it pretty clear that within five years there are going to be a full slate, just like Sunday night, Thursday night, and Monday night, kicking off at 630 in the morning. And for those of you on the East Coast, 9.30, Eastern time, yes, that is 100% happening. This year, there's eight games. There eventually is going to be a full slate, and they're going to sell that thing for billions of dollars. they've done a good job of taking games that exists and creating another package.

The problem was on Monday night football, there was already a game. Like we already built our nights and talked about it like Monday night football already existed and was thriving. So when you add the other game, especially the way they did it with the staggered starts, it sucked. And they kind of had to do the staggered start because they didn't want to do the double header where the one game kicks off at like 730 or 745 Pacific Standard Time. or these guys on the East Coast, if you've got to go to work or you've got to go to school, probably you're not staying up for it. So I give them credit for acknowledging this is not working. And we're not going to do this anymore.

We can take those games, put them somewhere else, however you want to do it sometime on Sunday. I don't care. But I'm glad that they scrapped this idea. The other thing that came up today, and Sean Payton talked about this, because I watched Kyle Shanahan, who went on with Matt LaFlor with Florio and Sins. It's really good. And, you know, one thing Shanahan talked about because him and Sean Payton coached these teams is like, Kyle's pretty cocky going in. When he first got the like the gig and he accepted, he thought it was going to be seven on seven.

He got Joe Burrow, a bunch of wide receivers like, we're going to dominate. And he quickly realized it was not going to work and they were in major trouble. And he even said that in one of the practices, Jake Paul like tried to get the flag of Joe Burrow and they collided. And he's like, my heart almost fell on the ground. like it freaked me out. And Sean Payton doubled down saying like, I'd be a little surprised if we see NFL players participating in this. Matt LaFleur was asked about it and Chris Sims goes,

what if some of your wide receivers wanted to play in this event? He said, well, we'd have long talks with, is this a good idea? And the answer is when you're paying guys $20, $30, $40 million to work for you, it's not a good idea, especially where it's a completely different sport and you're at a big disadvantage. So the flag football thing is not only not going away, it's going to be a big thing, and the NFL is going to get behind it financially.

But I do think we've seen the last of star NFL players participating in this. The injury risk is just too big. Now, as Kyle mentioned, it'd be really cool winning a gold medal, and it turns out the coaches don't get a gold medal, so he's like, yeah, probably wouldn't be that interested in them. but these players, it's a completely different game. The physicality of the sport doesn't really matter, right? So a big linebacker or a big running back is going to be at a big disadvantage

because you don't lower your shoulder. You're not breaking any tackles. Everything's about quickness and avoiding stuff, which is where you could get ACL, Achilles injuries, knee injuries, which the NFL is just paying too much to have that happen. and we saw the freak out with Joe Burrow that he tried to do some 360 and all of us kind of held our breath.

I think it's fair to say that we will no longer see these players participating in these events. The other thing that's pretty clear is the NFL is going to get aggressive on Thanksgiving Eve. So we've become accustomed to Thanksgiving being this massive day, three games. Cool.

They do like 40, 50 million people watch. I mean, the Cowboys games the last couple years, it felt like have got close to 50 million people sitting on their couch, eating turkey, eating some gravy, watching these games. I'm guilty, you're guilty?

It's awesome. I'm pro Thanksgiving football. But they realize, like, what's on Wednesday night? What's everyone doing on Wednesday? Not much. No one's working on Thursday, really. Everyone is kind of mailed it in halfway through Wednesday. In isn't home.

Most of us, maybe having a cocktail or two with family. So they're going to get a, aggressive with this. Now the question is going to be, are they going to put a team on that Wednesday coming off a bye week? Because you're not going to make a team play on Sunday and then play a game on Wednesday. Now, what they could do is go Thursday, Wednesday, and then you kind of go into a mini buy. So basically, you play a short week and then you play on six days and then you get the half by, which is kind of what I expect. But it's pretty clear, Wednesday night, the day before Thanksgiving is going to have NFL football moving forward.

You know, a lot of you guys, the Steelers fan base is massive. And I think it's pretty clear at this point. McCarthy just acknowledged this morning that he was on the phone with Aaron Rogers on Monday night. I think at this point, if I was a betting man, and I'm sure you can bet on this on some of the prediction markets, Aaron Rogers is going to be the quarterback for the Pittsburgh Steelers in 2006. It's going to be kind of actually cool.

The more likely, I would imagine by then it would be his last season, get back with McCarthy for just kind of one last ride. And it makes the Steelers a little more watchable. But if you listen to Aaron Rogers over the course of the last year, he is a big Will Howard guy. He has been singing his praises. He clearly likes him a lot. Well, who does he have a direct line to?

Mike McCarthy. What did Mike McCarthy say this morning, which I've been saying over and over, when you're a third day pick, so starting in the fourth round, but specifically fifth, sixth, seventh round, when you're a quarterback, the only way to become the starter

is through injuries. They do not just name you the starter. They do not just put you in the game. Hell, third round, we saw last year with Dylan Gabriel and Shadour, they both have to sit behind Joe Flacco. They're not just going to give you the starting nod in training camp. It is difficult. Unless you are a first round pick

or really top of the second and even as a top of the second, you're going to have to win the gig. Look at Tyler Shuck. They drafted him. He wasn't a starter right away. It's an uphill battle. But Mike McCarthy mentioned that if he would have been in the draft room a year ago,

that Will Howard wouldn't have been on the board that long because he would have pounded the table. And maybe he's just saying this, but I think it's fair to believe him. I think he likes him a lot. I think it's pretty clear that if I was a betting man, because it's like, well, who are their quarterbacks?

That Will Howard's going to be the backup and Aaron Roger are going to be the starter. And based on a guy being over 40, there is no guarantee. And we just saw last year he broke his hand. And Aaron Rogers no longer moves at all. Like, Will Howard probably going to get some starts in 2006. So I kept saying that I wonder if they're going to trade for a Tanner McKee, a Tyson Badgett.

I think I'm messing that name up. But you know who I mean, the Bears backup quarterback. I don't know. Like, I wonder if they're just going to roll in, bring Rogers back in Will Howard. I'm starting to believe. And while many of you might not get your wish of Will Howard just being the starter and just seeing what they got, I'd be stunned if he doesn't play in 2006.

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I think I was thinking about because I saw a bunch of clips about Dan Hurley, and we've been talking about this forever with nepotism and coaching, you know, in ownership. These people just give their kids the job. And when you're an owner, like, I get it. Like, you buy this team, especially over the course of the last couple decades, you're spending an astronomical amount of money. Like, ideally, you just give it to your family. Like, you don't want to, like, that's why you buy the team, right, to keep it within the family. And ideally, your kids really like it, right?

It's pretty clear that Stephen Jones really likes the business of football. When Lamar Hunt died, Clark Hunt very, very, very. invested. Like whether you agree or disagree, Mark Davis has really, really tried for the Raiders. But not everyone likes what their parents do. And I've grown up around a lot of farmers. And my brother's a farmer. My dad was a farmer. If I went to college at Cal Poly, which is basically an engineering and an agriculture school. And most of the kids that I went to school with that were an ag, their families were an ag. And they actually didn't like Thanksgiving break Christmas break, even spring break. Why? Because they had to go back home and go to work.

But a lot of those guys now who are in their 40s are doing really well. Because from the moment they were five or six years old and they gravitated to it and liked it, the advantage of what they learned served them well by the time they were in their mid-20s and they'd already been working for 20 plus years. So I see the coach's picture and I see Jim and John Harbaugh. Well, what was their father? Jack Harbaugh. He was a football coach. Jim Harbaugh, while he was in the NFL,

helped his dad as a recruiting coordinator at Western Kentucky. Those kids were born into the life. Think about Dan Hurley, who is clearly the best college coach going right now. He's in his third final four in four years. If he were to win the national championship, he would win three in four years. It'd be one of the truly great non-John Woodley. and runs we've ever seen. But like, that's all he's been around his entire life.

He was born into the life. And it turns out he's an addict. And the advantage he has is like, this ain't his first rodeo once he turned 25, 26, 27, and just got into the business after he started playing. I'm not saying that can't serve you well and guys can't go on to have success. My dad wasn't in the radio or podcast business. but watching Kyle Shanahan really his entire run in the 49ers

he was holding the clipboard when he was in junior high for his father so if you do gravitate and do take a liking to whatever the profession that your father does and get into the family business it is a massive massive advantage and I don't think it's random

that the Harbaas have been pretty dominant coaches since they got into the business. I don't think it's random that Kyle Shanahan is clearly one of the best NFL coaches. Sean McVeigh's grandpa was the GM for the Bill Walsh 49ers, someone that he idolized and looked up to. And when you look up to somebody and they do what you want to do, you can't help but get early knowledge in that. There's no school, there's no classroom that's going to teach you

the education of the job that they got from their family. Now, there are a lot of people that are given gigs that don't necessarily like it and are given great jobs, and it doesn't go that well. So you're not guaranteed shit. But when you do like it and clearly you have the intellectual capacity to be good at whatever said profession is, it is a massive, massive advantage.

And I think Dan Hurley speaks to that. I think the Harbaugh speak to that. Clint Kubiak and the Shanahan family speak to it. There are a lot of guys that get into it because they loved playing, which totally understand you become Andy Reid love football because he played football. Dan Campbell loved football because he played football.

It doesn't mean you can't become a really, really good coach. But like when you were holding a clipboard, it's seven years old for your dad at practice, whether it be in college or the pros, and you're getting that knowledge and understanding of dealing with players and hearing stories throughout your entire life. There is a pressure and a grind of this job that is not like many.

I was watching LaFleur talk about his week. And Kyle's like, yeah, usually on Friday, I go home a little after lunch. And I get to spend some time with my family after I take a couple hour nap. And then I start working a little bit after they all go to bed on Friday night. And LaFleur is like, actually, I let everyone leave and I stay. And it's kind of a peaceful time for me. These are not normal jobs.

with the public scrutiny, the hours that are asked. I mean, even LaFleur talked about it this week. He's like, yeah, a lot of our players weren't happy. Because I thought when the Packers let a bunch of guys go, I'm like, that's a little weird. They kind of had this core group. I know they didn't quite get over the hump, but they won a lot of games.

If it wasn't for a couple injuries, they easily could have been one of the best teams in the league this year. But he's like, yeah, we had a lot of guys on our team not really like their roles. That really didn't really buy in. And like I tell everybody, if you don't like your role, this is football. No one's on scholarship, you can change it. And it's like, oh, they kind of had some locker room issues.

And that's why they let everyone go. That's why they kicked everyone to the curb. And these are advantages you have when you've been in the business a little while. So I just think the Bronny James, which I didn't get as worked up for as everyone else because I'm a little getting nostalgic when I see fathers and sons. obviously is he an NBA player, clearly not. If his name was Brony Middlokov, would he have been drafted in the second round

and been given a four-year contract? No. But, like, if you're LeBron, what's the point of having this power if I don't fucking wield it around a little bit? And I get to be around my son. I'd probably do the same thing for my kid, Jack. If I was in a similar position, whatever I was doing.

But it doesn't mean you're going to be good at it. There is no guarantee. And obviously, as a player is different than as a coach. But I think it can be a massive massive advantage and we're seeing it now all over coaching. The Lions, you can bring in new coaches, in new GMs, and they can change the culture of your franchise, right? Hiring Brad Holmes and hiring Dan Campbell, the Lions have been on the best run since I've been alive, right, for their franchise.

They have been one of the best teams in the league for like four straight years. If it wasn't for Dan being a little reckless with the field goals and the fourth down plays in the NFC championship game, I think it's fair to say that they go to the Super Bowl a couple years ago, right? The year they played the Niners. But Dan's been a success. Last year was a quote-unquote disaster for them, and they went nine and eight. Do you know what Matt Stafford in his tenure would have signed up for? They'd be a disasterous season.

We're going to go nine and eight. So they have changed the trajectory of the franchise. They got real stud players. They got a real thing going. I think the Lions are going to be good this year. They draft well. They have high impact guys under this regime. Most teams can't get rid of the most talented quarterback they've ever had,

again, since I've been alive, and pivot and get better, which they did in the trade for Stafford and golf in the first round picks. But you don't fire ownership. and the core beliefs of the franchise always come from the people signing the checks. And when Barry Sanders retired and Calvin Johnson retired, the Lions made them give back money. Because when I give you a signing bonus,

and we just talked about this with Jackson Smith and Jigba, there is a difference between the salary cap and cash spending. Right? So when they give Jackson Smith, a $35 million guaranteed contract, or I mean a signing bonus. He gets that into his direct deposit in sometime over a two-week span. Now, taxes are taken out because he's a W-2 employee, but he will get, I don't know, you know, they got no state income tax in Washington. I don't know exactly what the number will be, but my guess would be $22, $23, $24 million will be direct deposit into his

Chase Bank account, into his Wells Fargo account. It's got to be pretty incredible. But that bonus is for the life of the contract. Now, obviously, you're paid on top of it as the years go, but you are paid up front an amount of money for your four or five-year contract. And the Lions have a company mandate that if you don't finish it out, as Barry Sanders, as Calvin Johnson retired early, you have to pay back whatever the, you know, accrued amount that you, You didn't earn.

And Frank Ragnow, who basically died on the field for the franchise, has to pay them back $3 million of whatever his total signing bonuses because he's retiring, he can't play anymore. He tried to come back last year, but couldn't pass the physical. Why? Because he's so fucked up for laying it on the line for the franchise. If you remember, Andrew Luck got a massive contract. At the time, I'm pretty sure it was the biggest contract in NFL history.

And then a couple weeks later, at that preseason game, he just retires. He quits. Jim Ursay let him keep the $25 million. Now, if these were normal businesses, right? Like, if I just quit on the volume and Netflix and they had already paid me up front cash, more than likely, and a lot of you guys deal with this in whatever industries, like you get lawsuits involved, civil lawsuits. That's the way business works.

People are always at each other's throat saying, you owe me this, we paid you for this, you didn't do this, the way the world works. Pro sports are a little different, especially for guys, Barry Sanders, Calvin Johnson's foot started fucking falling off because of what he did for the Lions when they were atrocious.

Ragnow was one of the better players for one of the best stretches in Lions' history and you make them pay them, $3 million back? And then Rod Wood, who I'm pretty sure just retired or is retiring after the draft, the team president gave an example of if we signed tomorrow, Jamir Gibbs, $20 million. And he retired on Friday, we would get the $20 million back.

Well, yeah, Rod, we understand that. But in a situation where you gave Jemir Gibbs $20 million, and in two and a half years, he shatters his knee and is not able to play anymore and retires. And you say, hey, you owe a $7 million back. You're kind of a fucking loser. And this is the difference. And this is where when these people signed up,

because Dan Campbell and Brad Holmes, they're impressive individuals. But they're working for kind of an archaic organization. And they're working for a family that, like, kind of holding on to the past. Understand that mindset a little bit in the 70s, 80s, and 90s. Because the money was not flowing like it is now in the NFL. Now, making someone pay something back like $3 million of a signing bonus isn't just a rounding error.

That is the type money that an NFL team would like find not in a couch cushion, but like under the couch, just sitting there and no one would notice and no one would care. My first takeaway, kind of embarrassing. And I actually, it even made me or gave like more respect for what they've done the GM and the head coach given what they're dealing with because that's kind of a joke and that's not a great look

and I'm not a big believer in good look bad look like business is business this is one of those where it's like what are we doing guys what are we doing and it also reflects very positively on Ursa who listen had his troubles had his demons

but by all accounts was a pretty great person to a lot of people speaking of demons I just saw Tiger Woods. I want to say he's going to rehab. He said he's seeking help. So I don't know if we can

we can go as far as saying he's going to rehab because he didn't actually say those words, but I think a lot of people are going to cover this story and where he ends up. I'd be a little stunned if he's not in rehab. Another story I saw today

is that Andy Reid said this morning that Justin Fields is more than a gadget player. that we think there's a lot of untapped potential there, and he's a quarterback. And depending on what happens to Mahomes, there's a decent chance that Justin Fields could be the starter week one. Now, by all accounts, Mahomes rehab is going great, and if he stays on that trajectory, Patrick Mahomes is going to be the starter week one. But we've seen enough injuries you never know.

You can't put these things in cement, you can't write them down in Sharpe. You never know, right? Especially if you get any hesitation, maybe once he comes back full speed, there's a little swelling. They will be overly cautious with Patrick Mahomes as they should be. But there's another story that Anthony Richardson asked for a trade. And the cults are like, yeah, we'll trade you. But here's the problem. No one's trading for.

And I was thinking about this. Justin Fields has not been a good player. Obviously last year was a train wreck for the Jets. When he was on the Bears, it didn't go that well. I actually think he had some moments on the Steelers, but clearly he has struggled to play quarterback at the level in which I thought, I loved him as a prospect. I'm like, that speed, that arm, the game he had against Clemson where he's throwing the bombs,

like, listen, I come from the Andy Reid, Pat Hill, traits, physical attributes. I was like, I love this guy. I was said at the time, the 49ers should have drafted him third overall. Clearly, I was wrong. Now, they were also wrong on the guy they drafted, but you would have been wrong at every guy they drafted. Maybe Mac Jones would have turned into Purdy.

Doubt it, not as good at an athlete, but regardless. But it got me thinking. This is why people ask, like, well, do you have to evaluate every player? Yes, you evaluate every player in the draft. Because you never know when they're going to become available. And you're constantly evaluating every player in the league. And that's not just how they're playing, but talking other coaches. What's this guy like?

The number one thing that happens at the Combine is talking like, what's this guy like? I was out with different coaches. I'm constantly. How's he? How's he? What's he like? And you hear great things. You're like, I fucking love this guy. Because a couple of times I was out of the Combine talking with the guy and I had a negative thought about the player. I'm like, yeah, I've heard some things. He's like, no, bro, you're wrong. He's awesome. Or vice versa. Like, that guy's a badass. You're like, oh, total pain in the ass. And that talk spreads like wildfire. And think about this. Anthony Richardson, You could argue there's way more untapped potential in him than Justin Fields. Played way less.

You would say Anthony Richardson is physically more gifted. Neither of them have proven to play the quarterback position. Well, obviously Fields has played way more. But the Chiefs who really value clearly character the right guys, especially at the quarterback position, went after Justin Fields. And this gets back to everything you do matters. I just saw this clip of who is it?

Golish, the new coach at Auburn. And I get these reels come up on Instagram. And it might have been his first team meeting during spring practice. And his message was, everything you do, from how you meet to how you conduct yourself on campus, to how you take a rep and practice, to how you sit in the classroom, to how you treat women.

around campus. Everything matters. And that is so true. And nothing is more true about, like, Anthony Richardson has done himself no favors. None. The tapping out last year, he's the guy asking for a trade. It's like, let them just trade you.

Justin Fields, meanwhile, has done everything the right way. He has handled every situation. And listen, he's by no means been perfect on the field. But it's pretty easy. A lot of guys haven't been perfect. on the field, on the court, on the diamond, and they also are painting the ass off the field.

It's like, this guy's not even worth it. But Justin Fields going back to Ryan Poles, remember when they traded him with the Steelers after they drafted Caleb Williams, or might have been just before, I can't remember the timeline. Ryan Poles was like, it was a really important to me

to do right by this guy because of how he acted. And then the way the Pittsburgh Steelers thing happened, it was like, we like this guy. Weird things happened. Tomlin was loyal to Russell Wilson for some weird reason. and even last year with the Jets, it never felt like he was being a, I don't know, just a pain, being just a clown, just being bitter,

which would have been easy to be. Instead, he just handled himself like a pro. And when the dust settles, a team needs a quarterback, and there are other guys that kind of fit this mold for Andy Reed and Veach to take a flyer on, they chose the guy that did everything that he could control off the field, the right way. That conducted himself the right way. And this gets back to everything matters.

And listen, I think about this and by no means I'm perfect, you're not perfect. None of us are perfect. But how you conduct yourself and how you treat people in whatever business you're in goes a long way. Because most of our industries are relatively small. And people know other people, people talk. It's never been easier to communicate. And I think there's a great example of like, Justin Fields is a character guy in the NFL,

has been fucking awesome. And he's getting these chances, despite his play not being great, because of that. And the other guy, Anthony Richardson, like, no one wants to touch him. I'm like, yeah, I don't even want to deal with that.

That's the guy that tapped out and created a problem and then asked for trade. Not really into that. The other thing is, I saw this clip of Veach. He was talking with Peter Schrager. And they were talking about Kelsey.

And this is what I'm so fascinated by the dream. draft is this is well known and jason was kind of like this i think Travis was worth he would have been considered a character guy coming out of college and that just means like a red flag and a red flag doesn't mean you've been arrested or beat some woman or crashed the cars he's like yeah there's some issues you know some issues and vitch is like the coolest part about this is he was a character guy that's why he should have gone way higher in the draft but now he's like the team captain team leader and the heart and soul of our franchise. And this is why in every draft,

because I don't blame Cunningham, Matt Ryan, Stafansky, they did not draft James Pierce. So they're being asked about this situation, which I think is more than fair for people to ask them about it. And I think if Rahim Morris and Fontno and the people that had drafted them, they would deserve, it should be the number one question.

Like, why did you guys do that way? These guys didn't make that move. they inherited this situation, there's not much they can say, probably out of their control, he's going to go to jail. But there's a reason people take risks in the draft. Because there are a lot of examples of guys being character red flags, then turning into Hall of Fame team leader, team captains. Now, it sounds stupid because of 2006. And most of us, depending on where you live, can press a button and have weed delivered to your house and you pay with a credit card.

Obviously, there are some states where that's not allowed. I think Alabama, the basketball player, got in trouble. Granted, he had, like, multiple pounds of weed. So I think there are rules on selling and taxes, but regardless, Honey Badger got kicked out of LSU for weed, which used to get guys kicked out of school, guys suspended. It seems like 100 years ago, but that wasn't that long ago. And he was a guy that fell to the third round.

and within a couple years on a fantastic cardinal team, Patrick Peterson said he's our leader. And then he went to the Texans, team captain. Then he went to the chiefs, team captain. So we have examples of guys who every single year are like, yeah, I don't know about this guy. And what Veach said is when you can bring this guy into a culture and put him around other adults, other winning players,

other people that do it the right way, you could shape those guys in the right direction and put them on a path to become their best version of themselves. And this is how people think. And there are going to be guys in this draft that are major red flags that fall to the second and the third round

and teams take chances on them. And the reason we'll be in that draft room is like, look at this example, look at this example. And a lot of guys won't turn their life around and will not live up to their potential, but some of them will. And even going back to like on the field, There's a reason Anthony Richardson was drafted forth overall.

Because you went, look at Josh Allen. He wasn't any good in college. He wasn't any accurate. And look at what they did with that potential. And look what he turned into. So in these draft meetings over the course of the next couple of weeks, besides, like, what did you get to guys like Jeremiah Love? There's nothing to say.

Elite at everything. High character guy. You know, Fernando Mendoza, like going one. Some of these other pass rushers. Like, they're all going top 10. The conversations really get into once you get in the 30s, the 40s, the 50s, the 50s, the 60s. It's like, well, this guy's got this and this guy's got this, but he does this well, and his ceiling's this. And you're dealing with human beings.

And some guys get in a position to become Travis Kelsey, to become the Honey Badger. And some guys, and listen, I'm not comparing those two guys to James Pierce, because everyone's issues are different. But some guys turned into that. And all of a sudden you have a fucking disaster on your hands. you have something that you have to answer to and deal with constantly. And until you remove him from your roster, it's still your problem. So it was always my favorite part of the draft in that process when I worked in the team or when I talked to my buddies to this day.

What's he like? How's he wired? Like, what's his deal? Not like, oh, he's great playing drop coverage. He's excellent in zone. I'm like, yeah, I mean, clearly that shit matters. But once you have the requisite talent, like, how are you wired? What do you like?

And sometimes you hear stories like, yeah, he's kind of immature. But I actually don't think he's a bad guy. I think he's a good guy. And I think he really likes football. And that's one of those things that is a defining thing during the draft process. How much does he like it? Because you've got to like it a lot. It's taxing mentally.

It's taxing physically. It's taxing on your. time. Once the season starts, you know, at the beginning of August in training camp or late July, you don't really have much time to take a breath of air. You get the, you get Tuesdays off, but even one of those. You're in the training room. You're in cold tubs. You're relaxing. Like, you're not doing that much. Occasional night out with the boys, but it is a lot of football 24-7 for six straight months. And if you're on a good team, they are depending on you to make plays. Even if you're on a bad

team, guys will get injured and you will eventually play. There's nowhere to hide. And it's what makes this process so fascinating. Do I have anything else? One of the funniest stories I saw today is

that Todd Monkin missed the coaching picture because he was getting a haircut, which is just hilarious. You know, There is a decent chance. I wouldn't bet on it, but I'd say it's closer to 50-50 than it is to 10%.

That this is Todd Munkin's only time in his career that he's going to have the opportunity to be in that picture. Because I think we'd all have to agree there's a chance that the Browns are bad this year and don't win many games and are really, really just a tough watch. And any time a football team is just awful, it's, unavoidable is this guy going to get fired. I mean, Aaron Glenn went from the toast of the town with the Lions. It's like this guy's a badass. He can run the defense. The players like him to by the end of the jet season, it's like,

how does this guy survive? I don't think he can't survive. And it felt like he's holding on for dear life. And I think if we were all betting men right now, we'd say, would it shock you if I told you Aaron Glenn doesn't make it to Thanksgiving? I don't think they want to, but they're going to suck. their quarterback position. He said that Gino Smith's going to be the guy to lead him to the promise land.

It could be really, really ugly. And all of a sudden you're fired. And it's so bad and it's so toxic, you're just like, it's going to be hard for you to become a head coach again within the next couple of years. And Todd Munkin's an older guy, didn't feel like he was ever going to become a coach, gets his haircut at this event,

which, you know, coaches, when I worked for the Eagles, we used to, and this is back when I had here, we had a guy come, it was either Monday or Tuesday, it was probably once every three weeks, maybe once a month, and you would just sign a piece of paper and get on the list with the coaches

and the scouts, and you would just get your haircut. And I can't remember if it was comp or you just have to tip the guy, but that's how most of these things work, right? When you see LaFleur's hair perfect, like, he's not going to supercuts. He's getting his hair cut at the facility. So these guys are used to that. Assistant coaches as well.

You would think that Todd would have got his haircut before he went to Arizona so he wouldn't had to deal with this. It is pretty funny that his potentially his one time to get a picture to say, I was an NFL head coach. If I was him, I would frame that thing up there with the Harbaas, just Andy, like, I, I, Vrable, I would keep that picture forever. Now he doesn't have the possibility because he missed it.

And his timing, whatever the agenda, someone fucked up, could have been him, could have been his PR guy, and now he didn't make the picture. Hey, it's us to Jonas Brothers, and guess what? We have some big news. What's the news, nice? Huge news.

We created our own podcast called, Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts throughout there. But this one's extra special. So how did we actually come up with a name, Hey Jonas, guys?

I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it. Well, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band. Before Jonas Brothers was... This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast,

for people could call in and say, hey Jonas, and then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy,

not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smigel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform?

We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Jacob Kingston grew up in an isolated polygamous sect. We were God's chosen, kingdom on earth. He felt destined for greatness. So when a swaggering Armenian business,

man catapults Jacob into an extraordinary world. He doesn't look back. Ferraris and Lamborghinis, private jets, meeting the president of Turkey. I'm Michelle McPhee, and this is one of the most shocking criminal conspiracies I've ever come across. When Jacob met Levant this plant to a billion dollar fraud. But with two kings from entirely different worlds, just how long can their empire survive? The largest tax investigation in American history. You need to tell me what you know.

Is somebody coming after me? Jacob told Levan, you're ruining my life. Listen to Kingdom of Fraud on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This segment is Change of Scenery, sponsored by my friends at Toyota. John Lynch, you know, Joanne Jennings, who has been a key figure on the 49ers for years. He's stepped up in their biggest games over the course of their run with Purdy going back to Jimmy Garapolo, from double passes to blocks in the run game. He has just been a key role player for the 49ers.

Last year in the offseason, he started seeing all these guys over the course of their careers holding out. He realized Iyuk was injured. He might have a little leverage. And he kind of caused a stink. He wanted a big raise, even though the 49ers had just given him a kind of. contract extension. They gave him like two years, $15 million when they were bidding against nobody. They actually just took care of him because they liked the guy. And he became a problem in the offseason. Then he kind of shaped in and he was like, okay, I'm cool with it, but he was

never really cool with it. And then this free agency happened, which I thought he'd been a winning player. He would get picked up pretty quickly. The problem is, and as John Lynch acknowledged, he's not going to be back. He's going to find a home and be good somewhere else. but he doesn't have a home because I think he has a false sense of his market he's seen all these wide receivers make 20, 25, 30 million dollars and he goes well listen I might not be one of the 30 million guys

but I could make 16 million dollars and as someone told me at the combine people around the league if you're not their guy don't value the ability to block don't value the ability to just make tough catches if your name's not like DeAndre Hopkins. You've got to be able to get open if I'm going to pay you any money.

And you see this guy who has been in some of the biggest games in the NFL over the course the last four or five years, just unemployed. And this isn't one of those older guys who's kind of holding out. This is an Odell Beckham who has been out of the league, but then dominated flag football, was at the owner's meetings, meeting with John Harbaugh. I think it's pretty clear that Odell Beckham's probably going to end back up on the Giants, which actually would be pretty cool.

Shanahan and LaFleur both acknowledged like he was the best NFL player that played against the flag football guys because of his athleticism and kind of change the directions. And at this point in time, like, O'Dell has no leverage. So if they go, hey, we'll offer you a one-year contract for the veteran minimum with the incentives to make $5 or $6 million. What's he going to say? No.

But some of these guys go, I'm not taking that money. It happened to Trey Hendrickson. right, during the Max Crosby fiasco, when he went, you know, I'm a $40 million pass rusher. And the NFL said, no, you're not. And he ended up getting, I think, like, $25, $26 million a year and $60 million guaranteed. So essentially like two-year contract, right? But he had a false sense of his market, but he still had so much money in the line, he had to pivot and he had to pivot fast.

I think some of these guys struggled to pivot, and all of a sudden you see a guy like Joanne Jennings, it's like, is he going to find a home? He's played with half the coaches throughout the NFL. They know him, they've coached him, they've been in the building, and no one's signing him. So when I say change of scenery, I don't know where he's going to end up, which to me is pretty crazy,

like he's clearly like an NFL starting wide receiver. He's clearly a winning player, but his value around the league and what he feels his value is as a player are not only not matching up, they feel like they're in two different universes because at this point in time we're almost to April it's kind of unheard of

so you have to wonder is he just going to wait to see who doesn't get wide receivers during the draft and then hopefully kind of pounce and maybe just take whatever they offered him because at this point in time when guys get signed those first couple days because even Trey he didn't get what he won and he still got a lot of money

it's you know it's a buyer's market a seller's market well if the teams are the buyers and the players and the agents are the sellers, those first couple days, sellers market. You cash in. We saw Linderbom, all these guys. If you're a decent player,

you make a ton of money. Well, as the weeks go, who used to, you know, chum these waters this time of year? Belichick made a living off the second and third kind of waves of free agency. Why?

Because he could get deals. He could get guys whose market was way different than they thought, and he could get for really cheap. And that's what I imagine that a lot of good teams are kind of circling. Like, can we end up getting this guy for like $3 or $4 million?

Because he's going to be so desperate, and at this point in time, it kind of feels like that's the case. Toyota reminds us that when people are the destination, it's not about where you're headed, but who you're headed there with. Learn more at Toyota.com and find a vehicle that fits your people. Adios.

The volume. Hey guys, it's us. The Jonas Brothers. I'm Joe. I'm Kevin. And I'm Nick. And guess what? We created our own podcast called,

Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We get to ask other people to do podcasts. We get to ask other people questions because we're sick and tired of being asked questions. Well, sick and tired is a strong way to put it. But, you know, tired and sick.

Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast. or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier.

This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel. and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo, and every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the biggest moments in sports and giving you the real story behind the headline. And we're going straight to the source, the athletes themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions in the moment, and the stuff nobody gets to hear. Listen to Sports Slice on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Winning on Clay is an art. The rallies are relentless.

And at the French Open, only the toughest survive. I'd know. I competed there for decades. Join me, Renee Stubbs, on the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast for no-nonsense breakdowns of the biggest matches, the toughest players, and the moments that define Roland Garris. Jen should win. She's an outsider to win the French fame. and she likes Clay. Listen, Lennar Rabakina is arguably the best player in the world right now and I actually can win on any surface.

Listen to the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.