The Herd with Colin Cowherd - 3 & Out - NFL organizations are worth SO much, Eagles bring back Joe Douglas, International games

Episode Date: May 21, 2025

John discusses the importance of star players and coaches and how they are extremely underpaid compared to how much each franchise is ultimately worth. Next, he dives into Joe Douglas returning to the Eagles as a scout and how that franchise has added another huge piece to the front office. Later, he talks about the NFL announcing a 16 game international schedule and gives his thoughts on having an early game every week. Lastly, John answers your questions in this episode's mailbag segment. 5:14 - NFL franchise worth 15:13 - Eagles bring back Joe Douglas 27:07 - International games 29:55 - Microsoft 25:49 - Mailbag Follow John on Twitter, Instagram and YouTube for the latest. Check out Gametime - the fastest growing ticketing app in the US, and the official ticketing app of 3 & Out and GoLow -  for tickets to all of your favorite NFL, NBA, NHL, NCAA teams. Concert and comedy show tickets, too. Go to Gametime now to create an account, download the app and use code JOHN for $20 off your first purchase. #Volume #HerdSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Hey guys, it's us. The Jonas Brothers. I'm Joe. I'm Kevin. And I'm Nick. And guess what? We created our own podcast called, Hey Jonas.

We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. We get to ask other people questions because we're sick and tired of being asked questions. Well, sick and tired is a strong way to put it. But, you know, tired and sick. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you.

you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the ice. Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano. It's our favorite time of the year on our podcast, Point Game, the playoffs. We're digging into the biggest surprises of the season. And I'm looking back on some of my greatest playoff moments. If we didn't talk ever again, I was crying. You just understood.

That's how personal it got. Wow. Then after that game seven, Marquis'clock, he's like, you know, I love you, dog. You know, it's all love. This was just playoffs. This was just basketball. So listen to Point Game on the, iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

And here's Heather with the weather. Well, it's beautiful out there, sunny and 75, almost a little chilly in the shade. Now, let's get a read on the inside of your car. It is hot. You've only been parked a short time, and it's already 99 degrees in there. Let's not leave children in the back seat while running errands. It only takes a few minutes for their body temperatures to rise, and that could be fatal. Cars get hot, fast, and can't.

be deadly. Never leave a child in a car. A message from Nitsa and the Ad Council. The volume. What is going on, everybody, John Middlecock, three and out podcast? How are we doing? Hopefully everyone's doing well. And we're going to talk a little football today because we had some news coming out of the owners meetings. We have a lot of people are still talking about Brock Purdy. Is he overpaid? Is he underpaid? Are we sure that all these guys aren't a little underpaid? Quarterbacks and coaches in general? The Eagles.

hire a former GM. I think it speaks to what we've been talking about when it comes to that franchise. The Bengals still at a staring contest with their first round pick. Everyone's participating in rookie many cams and OTAs, yet they can't figure it out. And then, of course, a little mailbag action.

At John Middlecock, at John Middlecock is the Instagram. Fire in those DMs and get your questions answered on the show. Appreciate everyone that fires a DM. If I've missed your DM, make sure to either bump your message because a lot gets lost in the shuffle. It's not like an Excel spreadsheet where I can kind of put in an order. It's just, it's kind of hard.

If I click on, it can get lost. So if you've asked a question and I haven't gotten to it over the last couple weeks, you can just go back in there and bump it if you want it red. And we're going to need you because it's the offseason, the heavy off season. So I still appreciate Roger Goodell and the owner. is making some, making some news. So we got some football stuff to talk about. But if you subscribe to Collins podcast,

and that's where you found us, appreciate you. Make sure you subscribe to Three and Out podcast separate because we do content that doesn't get uploaded on the feed. Also, YouTube channel. Everything we do goes up on the YouTube channel. So you can watch us video-wise, if you would like. But before we dive into some football talk, you know, I've got to tell you about my friends,

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And anyone who invests in the stock market and just keeps an eye and reads things about the financial institutions and how they deal with some of these big Fortune 500 companies and what those individuals in charge of those operations get paid and are compensated. not just the CEO, but people on the board and the money that flows into their pockets. Yet when you look at the NFL, and I would say this at pro sports in general, the players are revenue sharing partners with the organizations, with the entity that is the leagues. And if in the NBA, it's 30 teams and the NFL is 32 teams, and for every dollar that comes in on a certain, under the umbrella of what categorized as shared revenue, we split it.

You know, 49, 51, 5050, 51.5, 48.5, whatever the individual deals are. Yet the owners collect that money and then the players have to fight for it. It's kind of crazy. Like the deal I have with the volume, like I don't have to fight for the money that is negotiated in the contract, right? Yet as a player, whether I'm Brock Purdy, whether I'm Micah Parsley, whether I'm whoever I am, I have to have an agent who fights for amount of money that is allotted for me. Now, we can negotiate how much that's going to be and the better the agent, the better than negotiating,

the more money I get of the pie that is allotted for me. So it's not an easy position to be in despite the money that is flowing. You're guaranteed to make money as a team, right? And I just saw the 49ers today shattered a record for being the highest valuation in the history of the sport because a lot of these teams are now selling a portion of their franchise to get a cash infusion. Jed York, I think just sold like 10% of the 49ers and got almost $900 million because the franchise was valued at $8.6 billion, which breaks the previous record of the Eagles where Jeffrey Lurie did the same thing for $8.5.5.5.5.000. billion dollars. So it's for most of these guys an incredible investment. And you know, Jeffrey Lurie bought the team.

The Yorks and Jed and his parents who technically own the team. Jed is kind of the acting CEO and managing partner got the team because they're, you know, Jed's mother's brother, Eddie de Bartolo, got caught

brown bagging a politician in the late 90s trying to get involved in some riverboat gambling in the South. And the feds were on that politician and got in trouble and had to divest his interest in the team. So it's not like they purchased it. They got it because of, you know, some Donnie Brasco shit. And I was thinking about it because I actually was checking out YouTube this morning. And I saw Chris Sims and Florio like this video they had posted how coaches are underpaid. And I started thinking, and I've been saying this for a while, if I

I have a franchise worth $8.6 billion. Let's use the Chief, for example. I don't know their exact valuation. It would not be as high as the Niners or the Eagles because of the market. But relative to how good they are, Mahomes, and it's rolling, it would be pretty freaking high. Let's say $6 billion for the Kansas Sea Chiefs. And Andy Reid, who is, when you have an elite coach like Andy, obviously Patrick Mahomes,

if I could choose, and I would probably say this to Andy, if I could choose Andy Reed or Patrick Mahomes, I would take Patrick Mahomes. But there is not another player on that team, Chris Jones, old Travis Kelsey, Trey Smith, you name it, that you would take over Andy Reid. Yet Andy Reid, let's just guess, makes $15 to $18 million. Where, you know, in these other line of work with these billion dollar corporations, the CEO, which Andy is, I mean, when you're the head coach, you are in charge of everything. And like we just said, I mean, clearly the value.

value of that individual. Sean McVeigh, Kyle Shanahan, Jim Harbaugh, you go around. Like, their importance, Belichick forever. It's pretty important. Nick Sabin at the college level. Kirby's smart now.

And those guys don't actually make nearly what they should. And I actually think the way that it comes out, like no one knows how much Nick Siriani makes, is not ideal for their business model of trying to get paid more. And I know Jerry had mentioned when he, hired Brian Schottenheimer that at one point in time in his life, he desired to be a coach, but they didn't make any money. And he said, looking back, if I knew what they would make, what I'm paying them now,

I would have been more interested in the profession. And I'd argue that they are still really underpaid. Because look at Sean McVeigh. What's he worth of the ramps? $30, $40 million? Like, would you rather have some other coach, just take your chances on hiring someone random? Or pay Sean McVeigh what he's making and double his salary?

And like we just talked about the quarterback position, whatever Patrick Mahomes and Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson are making is a deal. Right? I say this all the time in the NBA. Like the amount of guys making max contracts is pretty laughable. There are countless guys on max contracts if they disappear tomorrow. No one would notice. And then there are guys like Steph Curry and LeBron James.

What they bring to the table, not just for their franchise and the valuation of that franchise, but for the league and the television ratings, you could triple their salary and it probably wouldn't be enough. Right? You could take every salary in the WNBA and give it to Caitlin Clark

what she's brought to the table and she would probably be underpaid. And Brock Purdy, we make such a big deal over how much money he make, how much was he going to get, is he going to eclipse this guy, is he going to be below this guy?

Like, in terms of the value, what he means to the 49ers, when you just factor in that a couple years ago, they swung and missed, on a quarterback high in the draft and gave away three first round picks. If he hadn't come along, all these guys would be fired.

And the 49ers would be in shambles. I'm old enough to remember when Jim Harbaugh showed up to San Francisco, they played at Candlestick, and they were doing everything possible to try to get a new stadium. In his first year, they went to an NFC championship. And then the momentum was gained, and they got a stadium. In the heart of Silicon Valley that took the York's net worth to a different stratosphere.

And when I saw what Jim Harbaugh did last year, whatever Jim Harbaugh is making from the Chargers, he is vastly underpaid. And I'd say the same thing about most quarterbacks. Listen, would I want Tuatong of Iloa as my starting quarterback? I would not. But his value to the Miami Dolphins,

yeah, they can't win a playoff game. But they can't win a game without him. They can't function. So I'm guilty of this. We bitch and moan all the time. It's like, oh, you're really going to give $50 million? This is crazy. Well, relative to what they have, they are completely, you know what, if he's not around.

Because we see year and year out when he goes down and they put whoever in, it's a wrap. And to me, and listen, Dak Prescott originally when he signed his first contract, it's like, guys, you drafted me in the fourth round. Then Tony Romo's back broke. And I saved you guys. And I think there's an element to that with Brock Purdy. Like, I'm still giving you guys a discount, but never first. forget without me, like if I hadn't been here, y'all would be screwed. And let's face it, probably be out of a job. So, well, yeah, Kyle, you're probably underpaid. You would have been

fired here a couple years ago if I didn't come through. So I do think that we spend so much time talking about this, the value of the quarterback, the value of the coach, and then we kind of bitch and moan when they get paid. And listen, this is an exercise that's never going to change, because it is a salary cap league and how much you pay these guys does matter. I think the problem is when you pay a guy, like you could easily justify,

you know that if two as your starting quarterback, you can win nine or ten games if you do a good enough job building the team. When we saw that happen to Trevor Lawrence, I'm like, I don't know about this. That seems a little crazy to me. Now, you could probably argue both sides. My issue is when you pay a guy

that you don't even know if you can win with. And when I say win, I don't mean the Super Bowl. because winning just regular season games is how these franchises make money. And if you're in the playoff every single year, like you're going to have a very, very lucrative business where in a business model where you can't really fail. But there's a way to make way more money and that's just by going to the playoffs every year.

Ask the Packers and ask the Steelers, like why their franchises are worth so much money in smaller markets. Because they've been winning for decades upon decades. We talked the other day about like, listen, We can nitpick Siriani all we want. He can't call plays. He's a young offensive coach that cannot call place, which, yeah, I mean, that's a little bit of a head scratcher. But Mike Tomlin has never called the defense for the Pittsburgh Steelers.

John Harbaugh doesn't call offense or defense for the Baltimore Ravens. Never has. Never will. And we applaud those guys. It's like, well, they just win. And you look at Siriani and his record, it's like, well, this guy just wins. and it just dawned on me yesterday, and if you listen to the podcast,

we talked a lot about it. He really benefits, just like those guys, from an incredible infrastructure. And it starts with the owner. And today, or I guess within the last 24 hours, it was announced, the Eagles are bringing back Joe Douglas

after just losing a couple guys to the Raiders. And who knows, maybe there will be more announcements. They've lost several people from their front office. Now, granted, the Eagles have one of the bigger front offices, if not the biggest in the NFL. Well, what does that tell you?

They're only spending a lot of money. And last year, what happened when Vic Fangio got out of his deal? Jeffrey Lurie made him the highest paid coordinator in the NFL. What happened this year when Joe Douglas was available, which in NFL circles, personnel moves usually happen in terms of hiring after the draft. They hire Joe Douglas. And it's not like he's getting paid from the Jets anymore. Remember, his contract is over.

And this gets back to the difference, the way to separate in the NFL. Because everyone abides by the same rules. We all have the same amount of cap space. We all have the same amount of draft picks. We just get to pick and choose how we want to allot them. Do we want to trade for a player? Do we want to pay this guy? Do we want to...

We could do whatever we want, right? The Atlanta Falcons chose next year to not have a first round pick because they wanted James Pierce on their roster. Don't blame them. I mean, I do. I think it's a stupid trade, but that's their prerogative. They're allowed to do what they want to do. So I think Jeffrey Lurie has really, really taken advantage of his situation

by just spending a lot of money when it comes to coaches and front offices. And that's an easy way. Like, this is all on the margins, right? The difference of everybody in the NFL, especially the top six, eight, ten teams is really, really small. We've seen, like, how close these playoff games are, against the Ravens and the Bills, against the Rams and the Eagles. It's a play here or a play there.

So it's really, really small at the highest level. And you got to take advantage of where you can't, just like in any line of work. So all these teams are flush with cash. Some people just spend more of it. I mean, look at the Bengals. They are in this staring contest right now with, I've defended them a little bit with the Trey Hendrickson thing.

Older player, it's just complicated. It's just, it's not black and white, just give them an unlimited amount of money. I understand both sides. But the Shamar Stewart, they're starting OTAs, and he's still not practicing. Like, we're at the point now, this is kind of embarrassing. Every other first round pick participated in rookie minicamp. Now that OTAs are starting, a ton of guys have already signed their contract. These contracts are slotted.

The only negotiation is just a cash flow. You're paying them no matter what. So whether it's an extra $2 million in year two or the following year, you're giving them that money no matter what. And it's all based on precedent. So the agent can only argue what's happened previously. And if the previous years have had it happen, then you just give it to them and you move on.

Because at this point in time, when you're talking about a rookie contract, all these franchises are worth billions. You have guys on your roster now, Jamar Chase, Joe Burrell, making hundreds of millions of dollars. So you are arguing over a million. or two, right? At most three or four million dollars. He's the whatever, 17th pick in the draft.

So the total value of the contract isn't even that big. It's like listen, living with Maria and watching her in real estate, the amount of people that argue, it's like, you get to a number. We're offering $850 grand. They want it for $875,000. And they

get to like, I'm at $865, you're at $8.72. It's like, guys, you're going to let a deal worth almost $900,000 fall through over $3,000 or $4,000, which the way a mortgage is set up, you won't even fucking notice. And it's crazy how often this happens. Honestly, it really is. And occasionally, one of the sides will realize, like, what are we talking about? Let's just get the deal done. Because in the grand scheme of things, it's a tiny, tiny, tiny number. Now, if you just say

$2 million out loud, that's an enormous, number to 99.9% of people. But the way the NFL is structured, the way the bangles are structured, and what we're talking about here is laughable. And to me, like, perception oftentimes does become reality. And then I think when you finally shake it and it's like, hey, this guy, you know, used to be an asshole, used to be selfish, it's changed his personality. He's a much better guy now. You should give him a second chance, right? Whether that's dating him, whether that's employing him, whatever it may be. How often you've heard that with, you know, your wife's friends, your girlfriend's friends, your people in your life, whether it's people they work with. It's like he's a better

person now. You know, he just, he's done some self-reflection. He's just, he's grown, he's matured. I think we tried to start saying that about the Bengals a couple years ago and then they find themselves back in a situation like this. Like, there is no way to really defend. Like, these are embarrassing moments. And these are, like the Trey Hendricks thing, situation is not always avoidable. Complicated. I was reading the other day because I was like, well, you were the guy that signed with the Bengals originally.

You got into business when they gave you a massive free agent contract years ago. And then in 2023, he signed a one-year extension. Why? Got more money. Got more money. Then obviously kept playing well. Outperformed it. Now they're

at the staring contest. But originally, like, you had all these other options. They were offering the most. you were willing to get into bed and get into, Joe Burden didn't have a choice. They, Jamar Chase didn't have a choice. T. Higgins didn't have a choice. They were drafted by these teams. You became a free agent. And once upon a time, you said, you know what, I'll sign up with these guys. And then being there, you signed an extension on that original contract.

So it's like, there are a lot of variables here. The Shamar Stewart thing is like, you drafted me, here are the rules, precedent of the contract. Like, you want to dance, let's dance, but this is what it is. and I just think their mindset and I've said this forever once you're cheap in life it doesn't change just because you have money once that is embedded in your soul

in your core like Tiger Woods didn't grow up with any money one of the most famous stories about Tiger Woods with the Navy SEAL stuff was when he took all the Navy SEALs out after training with them in San Diego two cheeseburgers at a local restaurant I forget the number of people that he took out

let's just pick a number 10 And the bill came and Tiger wanted to split it. It's like Tiger. And notoriously Tiger was, and I've heard stories about Michael Jordan as well, are just cheap. They were cheap when they were 10. They were cheap when they were 20 and now they're cheap when they're 50 or 60 and they're super rich. It doesn't change. It's in your soul.

I'll believe this till the day I die. Just like people that are giving people, whether they are poor or rich, it's just, it's embedded in them. You have it at a young age. and I think the Bengals, that organizational philosophy, starts with the family. They view their franchise through the lens of back in the 70s and the 60s, because that's when they got into it. I said it forever about the Spanos's. They came in with the mindset of like the financial setup of the 80s or whenever they bought it.

It's like, guys, it's the 2010s. And if you're going to keep employing these average coaches, you don't get to complain when you lose. Just because you want to have a low paid coach like that. That's going to lead to poor results. And finally they realized it and they gave Jim Harbaugh a lot of money and look what happened. First year, playoffs. This year, most people are, a lot of people are going to pick them to probably win the division.

So I just think the Bengals, man, this is who the family is. Like, this is what you're arguing over? Give me a fucking break. The NBA finals are almost here. And every play could be the one that changes everything. This is the NBA playoffs where heroes rise, legacies are built and the action never lets up. Draft King's Sportsbook and official sports betting partner of the NBA, you don't just watch the madness, you live it.

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come up with a name Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call. about what we should call it. Well, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band before Jonas Brothers. This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes. I have a very different memory of this.

We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast, people could call in and say, hey, Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it.

Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends

on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The French Open is one of the toughest tests in tennis, and I know firsthand because I competed there myself. I'm Renee Stubbs, and on the Renee Stubbs Tennis podcast, I'm breaking down everything happening at Roland Garris. Every match, every upset, and what it really takes to win on clay. Genshin win. I mean, she went down at three to, two.

Rabakina, but I'm delighted. She's an outsider to win the French for me. And she likes Clay. Listen, Lerna Rubakina is arguably the best player in the world right now. And I actually can win on any surface. Because if she's serving, well, good luck. Consider this your court side seat to the French Open. Listen to the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever

you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. What's up, fam, Ms. Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano and our podcast Point Game is about defying the odds. Like LeBron heading into the playoffs without Luca and Austin Reed. And finding ways to win no matter what. He's the smartest player to ever play the game. His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before.

And he knows without Luca and Austin Reeves, I got to manipulate the game. We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the playoffs. I think Joker's going to be exhausted this series because when they don't have Rudy in the lineup, he has to really guard guys like Nas Reid. He has to guard Julius Randall. And then he has to give us everything he gives us on the night-to-night basis on offense. And when IT's friends stop by, like Quentin Richardson,

we dive into some playoff history too. Steve Nass would get that thing. That man, hell get the flying. He running up the court, licking his fingers why he got the ball. Like, you go through a training camp with that, Isaiah, you figure it out real quick. Get your ass up and down the court,

and you're going to get the ball. So listen to Point Game on the, iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Goodell, listen, I don't mean to do my own horn. I don't pretend to be some genius. But you can see this one coming from 90 miles an hour, or 90 miles away. This was as clear as day, and the breadcrumbs have been laid. Roger Goodell said, I do see us having 16 overseas games in the next five years.

The NFL is going to have an international package. They're going to have an international package 16 straight weeks at 630 Pacific Standard time in the morning. It was inevitable. We knew it was going to happen. And when he says five years, guess where the negotiating window is for their new television deal? 2009. So they kept adding these international games. They're putting together a package where Amazon, Netflix, CBS, Fox, who knows?

I mean, any entity can bid on this. thing, you're going to have like Thursday night football a, it's not technically prime time because it's in the morning, but a by itself, game package where you're not competing with anyone else. That's the power of

Thursday night football, Sunday night football, and Monday night football. There is no counter NFL programming. It does not exist. For as awesome and as big as the CBS and Fox game of the week are in the afternoon, a lot of times like Fox,

like Fox does have another game going on. So if it's Packers Vikings is Tom Brady and Kevin Burkart, and that's a huge game and going to do millions of viewers. The 49ers might be playing Arizona Cardinals, also on Fox, on the second tier, right? Well, you don't have to do that with this package coming up. So I would imagine this is going to be a massive new revenue source

and feels like a lock. Now, I think the international games I understand what they're doing of building the fan base and that's a big deal to the streamers because you can stream a game from wherever this is not local Fox in Arizona that I can watch the Cardinals

like if the Cardinals are on Amazon Prime I can watch them in Australia if I want I can watch them in Germany I can watch them anywhere think those people get Amazon I can sign in Amazon Prime maybe I need a VPN but obviously Netflix is a worldwide company so Roger

Goodell is telling you. So get ready because this is something, you know, for me personally, like, I'm not really looking forward to that. Like, it's, I've had, like, I have enough football in my life. I don't need that extra game on a Sunday. But like, I'm not going to argue over it because it's inevitable at this point in time. Okay, before we get out of here, let's, I want to welcome you to chasing challenges. Brought to you by Microsoft in the NFL, just like in the business world, overcoming obstacles.

is key to success. Microsoft empowers business decision makers with AI solutions, simplified cloud and data management, and trustworthy responsible technology to turn challenges into opportunities. In this segment, we explore some of the biggest challenges being faced in the NFL and how they can be overcome.

Whatever challenge you're facing, Microsoft empowers you with the expertise to say, bring it on. This week, we're discussing the challenge faced by football. because the NFL is all in on flag football. They're allowing the pros to play in 2008 Olympics in flag football. Safe to say I would like our chances if guys like Kyler Murray or Sequin Barclay or Justin

Jefferson are allowed to play. But I think one challenge for the NFL, speaking of streaming, is growing the sport, growing the sport not only domestically but internationally. And football, and I've heard a lot of people. say this, which is clear, like, in basketball, even in the pros, I can get 10 pros and we can have a pickup game in the offseason, even if it's not quite NBA standards. We can get really serious, call fouls and play the sport. In baseball, as long as I got a pitcher and a batter, I can just do simulated batting practice. In football, shorts and a t-shirt, like, I'm not actually playing

football, right? You need a helmet. You need shoulder pads. You usually need referees, coach. You need lot, right? You can't call your own PI, so that's not the way it works. But flag football's always been an element of like, it's actually pretty easy to play. We've all kind of done it. And one thing the NFL has done a really good job of, I would say over the last

half decade, becoming like this mix of sports meets reality show and just its importance in the culture has been adding a huge, huge female audience. And one thing they've been pushing is trying to get flag football into

high school and not just in the high school but for girls. Well, if I can get a girl, the reason football is so popular in America is because by far, and that's got a lot of different reasons, but by far of all the high school sports, the most amount of kids play football in their youth. And if you play something, usually just pay attention to it. That's usually when you become a fan. Or if you're young, you become a fan, you want to try and play it. And if I can open that up to maybe some people that aren't physically big enough and don't feel comfortable getting tackled. And obviously, girls that don't play tackle football, it just adds to the business model.

So the challenge for the NFL is like, how do we keep growing? Have we peaked? They never think like that. That's how losers, like, aren't you rich enough? Just stop. You get on the internet, people always tell you that, right? To other people. It's like, yeah, that's usually not how winners think.

When you get aggressive, you get extra aggressive. and the NFL has proven that time and time again. They see an inch, they want a mile. And they go pedal to the medal, 100 miles an hour, every step of the way. And the league has never been more popular. There's never been more people watching, and they want more.

Because in business you're either growing or you're dying. Obviously a huge challenge for Roger Goodell, who has to take into account everyone in the NFL, all the coaches, the GMs, and the players, but also try to drive the revenue. So all those guys who always want more money, it's like that money's not just going to come from the Scott. Well, this is clearly an area. I mean, the flag football with the NFL players is the

headliner, but flag football is something that they're all in on. And the challenge for the NFL is like, how do you get more people to watch? And the way to get more people to watch is to get more people to play. So that's it for this week's chasing challenges. Remember, Microsoft's AI solution empower you to make bold steps and informed decisions, sparking new ideas to help drive your business forward. With Microsoft as your trusted partner, you can navigate your journey with confidence, finding innovative solutions, and reaching new possibilities. Visit Microsoft.com slash challengers to learn more. Blending Vice's signature dynamic storytelling with the high-octane world of sports, Vice Sports brings an exciting and diverse range of programming that goes beyond the game.

From action-packed live events to gripping behind-the-scenes documentaries, to hard-hitting investigative pieces, and in-depth profiles of athletes, coaches, teams. Vice Sports captures the raw energy, drama, and passion that makes sports truly unforgettable. Catch live events and other exclusive sports programs only on Vice TV. Go to viseTV.com to find your cable channel. Okay, mailback time.

At John Middlecoffs, the Instagram, fire in those DMs. Get your questions answered here on the show. Very, very easy to get involved. We need your participation this summer. and DM's open for anything. Obviously football, but, you know, fire in any other thoughts you may have. We will start with a will.

Longtime listener and love the show. But I hate your opinion of the Falcons. They have whiffed on quarterback since Matt Ryan retired. How are they supposed to win your respect with Marriota and Desmond Ritter? You say it all the time. It's a coach in quarterback league. With that logic, I'd rather swing at Kirk Cousins

than see one more game of that. you never call out other franchises who have quarterback issues as soon you never call them dog shit franchises did I say that about the Falcons as soon as that position hits all of our problem go away

it's a quarterback problem the offense is stacked and if penics the new pass rushers can be decent they will run the NFC South I pray to God every night before I fall asleep that they finally shove it up your ass this year you know let Diddy Wye

on that one. I would say this. That my lack of respect for the Falcons is how they run the organization. And ever since kind of the Dan Quinn Demetroff thing fell apart and the Arthur Smith, Fontenot, crew, and then through last year with Rahim, who everyone was bullish on and thought like, oh, he's going to, he's going to change the world. And I, listen, everyone likes them. I don't know him personally, but McVeigh, Kyle, these people swear by them. Everyone that knows them thinks highly of them, he's got to root for it. And then they come in, they desperately need defense, they fall in love with Michael Pennix after they give cousins $80, 90 million guaranteed.

It's like that that's a poorly run operation. Because if they could do it again and they knew they were going to draft Pennix at eight, they could have just signed a random quarterback for $5 or $10 million and allocated those funds for Wilkins from Miami, signed some defensive high-end players because they had a bunch of money to spend. But they were like fell in love with cousins and then their draft process was all out of whack

and then they clearly fell in love with Pennix. Where Pennix was not some like, didn't need to sit. This isn't J.J. McCarthy. There's a 24-year-old kid who'd been starting in college forever. plug and play guy who I'm high on. I like that player. But like the previous year, you went into like, you're going to start Desmond Ritter?

Like, what are we doing? And you could say it's a quarterback problem. Yeah, it's a quarterback problem, but like that was, like, you're going to go into the season with him starting. I also think the four straight year, three straight years of drafting offensive skill guys, I like Bejan Robinson.

I get it. Like, he's, I think he could be one of the better players in the NFL. but like drafting the tight end who can't block anybody and then the next year taking Drake London who's a good player but it just doesn't feel like

they have any organizational philosophy their owner is 85 years old worth an ungodly amount of money putting himself in the Hall of Fame in his own Hall of Fame like he's kind of just in his own little world who again everyone likes the guy

sure he's a great guy but when it comes to football I don't think it's safe to say they know what's going on so like do I I think you're like a dog shit franchise. Like clearly it's a high end lucrative operation. Sweet Stadium. Some history with the franchise.

But like I feel like the people driving the bus right now don't know where they're going. And we, someone asked like how, why do some teams have an identity and some teams don't? And we talked about this with the Steelers. It starts with the owner. The Eagles starts with the owner. The Raven starts with the owner. It's pretty rare that like the craft.

I don't think really they know what's going on, but it doesn't matter. They had Bill forever. Then they get Bravel, who learned under Bill. So it's like, I don't know. I don't know.

I think you guys, now who knows? Panics is good, like you said, maybe you'll be solid. But run the division. The reason the bucks are good is because like,

yeah, we don't really know what's going on. Once upon a time, we gave it all to Gruden, and now we give it all to Jason Light. Jason Light's better than anything you got. And like, this is,

football while it's very complicated, like it's kind of important. Who's running your franchise? They got Baker Mayfield, but who's running the franchise? Jason Latt knows what he's doing. I just feel like you guys don't know what you're doing. I mean, honestly, trading a future first round pick for a guy

who, like again, these aren't my opinions, was off boards, been well reported, texting around people. They're like, it wasn't on our board. It's like, what are we? doing. How, and you guys aren't good enough to take like questionable people. Hell, a couple years ago you had the chance to take Jalen Carter, but it's like,

ah, I'm a little too questionable. And now you take questionable people? It's like, you haven't won shit since then? What changed? How big of an advantage, if any, is knowing the other GM in an NFL trade? I'm a huge Rams fan, and it seems like whether less need is dealing with a coach or GM who previously worked for the Rams, a really good deal for the Ram seems to materialize. getting Stafford from the Lions,

the first rounder we just got from the Falcons, now that Gladstone is in Jacksonville, if we deal with the Jags in the future, would Sneed have the advantage of knowing Gladstone's tendencies or vice versa. Also, my four-year-old son is addicted to watching golf. I've never played around in my life. If you have any tips into getting him started,

I'd appreciate it. I would just say take him the driving range, get them a set of like little kids clubs and have him go wax some balls. We'll see if he really likes it. You know, so I would do that. Get him a putter, get them like a driver and get them like a little iron and just take them to like a public driving range and have him go whack away. I would say on the Rams thing, you know, I would agree on the Falcons trade.

I mean, that was every GM in the league would have made that trade for less need. So I don't know if they just took advantage of desperation. I mean, Rahim Morris is one of McVeigh's best friends. And he's a defensive guy. So clearly he wants that player. I would say on the Stafford thing, I mean, they gave up two first round picks. And, you know, Goff obviously now would be very valuable,

but at the time wasn't. But they included, so they got Goff and two first round picks. You know, the Lions had their choice. Like the Niners and the Rams both really want. Wanda Stafford, both were offering two first round picks, Jimmy Garoppel or Jared Goff. And they benefited because Holmes had been from L.A., or worked in L.A. and New Goff.

So, yeah, I don't know. He just clearly all things are just working out in their favor. Now, granted, like last year, you know, it's crazy. And this is why I think you've got to be careful, and I'm guilty of this, of this draft sucks, this draft's good. Or even my buddies in the league. Like, I hate this draft. I don't know what the Niners were doing there.

I didn't love this. I love this. I remember last year, it's like, God, the Rams traded that much to get Braden Fisk. I remember talking to people that thought that was pretty crazy. I mean, I think that's a pretty good deal. It looks like after one year. So I just think we never know, you know.

I think the Stafford Gough trade is just an all-time win-win. I mean, the Lions do not regret that. They traded Stafford, who didn't want to be there anymore. they ended up getting pick six that they turned into Gibbs and Leporta. They got Jared Goff. So I think it's kind of, I think James and Williams, too, if I remember correctly. Yeah, I mean, I wouldn't put that one underneath the, like, fleecing for the Rams, but I hear what you're saying.

I don't know. I mean, I would say, Gladstone, I'd want to do a deal with him. Because that, that's a pretty easy deal for the Browns to do. and I like Travis Hunter, but holy shit. I'm not a 49ers fan, but I remember you saying you would play hardball with Brock Purdy and giving him $200 plus million would be a mistake. Well, he didn't get $200 million in guarantees, but man, that contract is insane. Didn't hear any reporting about negotiations going back and forth like last year with Iyuk.

It might be Monday morning quarterbacking, but it seems like trading Iyuk was a, seems like not trading Iyuk was a mistake. and the Purdy contract feels risky too when the state of an unproven roster. What are the 49ers doing and have they lost their fastball? I mean, I've said this over and over. I think they got a deal. I mean, ideally you would have got like Baker Mayfield's contract,

but it's pretty clear they were never going to accept that. And after the last three years of, I would say no team had three consecutive years of holdouts, some years, multiple players. The Niners didn't want to deal with that. And I don't think Brock Purdy wanted to deal with that. It's why I respect Micah Parsons, who's just showing up to practices. It just makes getting everything done easier.

Just show up, make the other person want to do a deal with you. I think sometimes the holding out, I'm not against holding out, but it just creates, especially in this day and age of media and social media, just such a shit show. The IUC thing was an embarrassment. And I think the 49ers, once they got to training camp, he could deny trades because the only way, a trade would go through is he had to accept their terms. So like they were trading him away.

And he kept saying, no, I'm not signing the Patriots. I'm not signing with the Browns. What they should have done is traded him before the draft. It was a huge mistake because by then he probably would have accepted. Once he got to training camp, he had his heels dug in. And clearly, I mean, they would have traded him at the combine. But no one will take a guy with a shattered knee. Now, I'm not saying the deals of disaster because he got injured. No one, you can never predict an injury. But like that that was an embarrassing moment for the 49ers. It truly was.

And everyone, the Mayokos, the Kawakamis, the Barros, all the guys that cover the Niners closely, I mean, well reported. That was something that made the 49ers. They didn't like that. And they've been through tough contract negotiations, but Purdy was never going to do that. I think there's a little bit of a reward for saving their ass. Now you can say, is that great business or not?

I mean, but he did. And I also think this, that when you factor in that Brock Purdy got $50 million less in total guarantees than Dak Prescott, like that's a pretty big win. That's a pretty big win. Now, I'd argue that they were never going to give him Dak Prescott money, but like that contract exists. And I don't think there's much difference between the two, especially when Brock's younger and moves much better. So, yeah, I would say that I, you know, You know, in the day and age of quarterback contracts, I would say that that deal is pretty normal.

You know, really is. Now, it's a win for Purdy. It's a ton of money, right? But I think for the 49ers, they probably at one point in time prepared. Like, if this thing got ugly, we would have to pay more. Hey, it's us, the Jonas Brothers. And guess what? We have some big news.

What's the news, new? Huge news. We created our own podcast called, Hey, Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to our time. First people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts.

We're starting a trend. But this one's extra special. So how do we actually come up with a name, Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it. Well, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band before Jonas Brothers.

This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast, could call in and say, hey Jonas, and then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it.

Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smigel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, S&L's Mikey Day and headwriter, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter.

Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The French Open is one of the toughest tests in tennis, and I know firsthand because I competed there myself. I'm Renee Stubbs, and on the Renee Stubbs Tennis podcast, I'm breaking down everything happening at Roland Garris. Every match, every upset, and what it really takes to win on Clay. Jen she went.

I mean, she went down in three to Rabakina, but I'm delighted. She's an outsider to win the French for me. And she likes Clay. Listen, Lena Rubakina is arguably the best player in the world right now, and I actually can win on any surface. Because if she's serving, well, good luck. Consider this your courtside seat to the French Open. Listen to the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano, and our podcast Point Game is about defying the odds. Like LeBron heading into the playoffs without Luca and Austin Reed. And finding ways to win no matter what. He's the smartest player to ever play the game. His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before. And he knows without Luca and Austin.

Austin Reeves, I got to manipulate the game. We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the playoffs. I think Joker's going to be exhausted this series because when they don't have Rudy in the lineup, he has to really guard guys like Nas Reid. He has to guard Julius Randall. And then he has to give us everything he gives us on the night-to-night basis on offense.

And when IT's friends stop by, like Quentin Richardson, we dive into some playoff history too. Steve Nash would get that thing. That man, hell get the flying. He running up the court, licking his fingers, got the bar like after you go through a training camp with that i said you figure it out real quick get your ass up and down the court and you're gonna get the ball so listen to point game on the iHeart radio app apple podcast or wherever you get your podcasts i know you primarily cover i hate the word cover

because i'm not like a reporter i know it's just a most of you don't care about like the semantics of my job i just watch games and give my opinions on them uh i wouldn't say cover but listen that's maybe an insecurity of mine. I hear what you're saying. I'm not putting it. This isn't your fault. But I'm wondering if you ever got into the NHL. With the physicality, pace of play, and effort,

it seems like a sport you'd mention more in your podcast. Go Keynes. I've gotten into it more the last couple years. I, that whatever they're all-star thing, I forget the name. The four nations. I mean, that USA, Canada, those two games,

are two of the better sporting events, any sport I've seen in recent memory. I was glued. Have nothing but admiration. I think I view hockey like I do MMA. I don't really watch MMA. And I know some of you that get all the pay-per-views. I respect the living...

I couldn't have any more respect for what it takes to get in the Octagon. How big of a badass all those guys are. I love Dana White. I love that operation. I admire. how they handled 2020. He was the first guy to have been like, fuck this.

A lot of people followed suit. And I just, I admire a lot of things about the MMA. I don't watch it. I would say similar with hockey. Like I respect the living shit out of the players. How hard it is to play that sport. How they all are missing teeth

because they're all getting pucks to the face. How tough you have to be to play hockey. But I just don't really watch. Now, I will pay a little more attention like to the final four here. I would love to see Edmonton win. I made a mistake. I put $1,000 at $10 to 1 on the capitals.

And I thought about splitting it going $500,500 on Edmonton. Obviously a huge regret. I wish I just would have put that on Edmonton, who was like 18 to 1. I think the caps were 10 to 1 in your canes just beat the shit out of them. I remember watching last year I had the Vancouver and watching Edmonton take them down. I would love to see McDavid win it.

but I don't pretend like I'm not a huge hockey guy. I just don't really. I only have so much time in my life. I spend so much time watching football in the fall in golfs Thursday through Sunday, you know, basically year round, which I consume, but definitely when football,

I don't miss really many golf days besides if I'm out playing. So I just, I don't know. I just only have so much mental energy to put in. Doesn't mean I don't have a lot of admiration and respect for the sport. I know you're not a big soccer guy, but you're a nineer guy. I'm from Glasgow, Scotland, and my rival team, the Rangers, I'm a Celtic guy, he's talking soccer, is in the midst of a takeover from the 49er enterprises.

Curious to see if this is gaining any traction at all in the States as it's massive news over here. The takeover should be complete soon, and sadly means the Rangers might actually be good enough to compete. I suppose my question is two-parter. One, have you heard of this news at all? Two, base off your knowledge of running an NFL franchise, how would you see the enterprise running a huge European soccer team?

P.S. If you get any time, read up on the old firm derby, biggest and best rivalry in sports. Well, the 49ers bought years ago a franchise called Leeds. And I think they just, within the last couple months, qualified. And they had done this before for the Premier League again. They had been, they had qualified for the Premier League and been knocked down and now they're back. And they threw a huge like parade in the area. And you know, the 49ers have a unique setup, right?

Like Howie kind of runs point on most things. It's not like he negotiates every detail of every contract, but ultimately nothing gets signed off without him. The 49ers like John Lynch, they have a cap crew that's kind of run by Parag, who is Jed York's right-hand money guy. and Parag runs point on the soccer. And I know Parag a little bit, I haven't talked to him in a while, but like Leeds was a huge passion project of his. And he used to tell me like they were a sleeping giant. And they have brought people from America to run it over there.

And it's, they've done a good job. Like they take it really, really seriously. So if he is heavily involved in this, I would imagine it's going to work. I would bet on it working. I think what they've tried to do is like obviously, you know, the glazers or Stan Cronky on some of the main teams. Like to get a main team now, you need billions of dollars. I think they have tried to like buy sleeping giants and resurrect them.

Obviously it's just cheaper to buy. It's like I remember Coward told me years ago, he's like, if you can afford it, it makes more sense to find a home that you can remodel yourself than find a home that's already been flipped. and they're adding 50% to the sticker price. Because you're paying for their remodeled then to make a profit on. And it's like, yeah, it's why the house I'm living in right now was a full gut job. But the house would have been worth double if the person before me had done what I did to it. So it actually saved me money.

And I think that I look at the way the 49ers operate. You know, they're not trying to find a deal necessarily. they're just trying to find something with a lot of upside and the way you just described it, I would imagine is the way they viewed it. And Parag is good with money. I want to know what you think about the quarterback win stat. For example, a lot of people in the media

mentions Joe Burrow beating the Chiefs when Mahomes throws two picks. But when a guy like Allen goes nuclear against the Chiefs, he just can't get it done. Should Josh play some edge rusher next year to help on defense? I think a lot of the media elites, the overeducated group that always loves any sort of a narrative to shut down because the people pushing that aren't intellectually, you know, their capacity isn't quite on their level. And I view this as a classic, like the media loves saying quarterback wins are not a stat. I would agree in an individual situation, in a playoff game.

You can lose a playoff. Aaron Rogers has lost playoff games where he's played well. Earlier on in the McCarthy era, he played well in games. The defense was atrocious and they lost. That's happened. But you could not be a good quarterback over the course of five years

and have your team not win a lot in the regular season. Now, individual playoff games, you can play crappy, one play can determine it. Josh Allen has played well in a lot of playoff games in which he's lost. I would say Patrick Mahomes has played average in some games that they've won, right? So it's like totally agree.

Playoff quarterback playoff wins shouldn't be a stat. But your win-loss record as a regular season quarterback does matter. Right? It just does. Like I actually view last year with Joe Burrell winning nine games, it's pretty impressive. But I hate it when people go, quarterback wins is not a stat. Well, bullshit. Over the course of multiple years, it for sure. bet your ass it is, why do we think the position's so important?

Because if you're a good player, you're going to win a lot of games. I don't care how average your team is. Unless you're playing on one of the worst teams ever, if you put Patrick Mahomes or Joe Burrow or Lamar Jackson on who just drafted number one, the Titans, yeah, actually they probably would have won like eight, nine games because they had a good defense. They would have been good. Big fan of the pot, I'm a Dairard Browns fan, which sucks most of the time.

But they seem to always leave you with slivers of hope. for example, this year. I don't expect them to win many games. However, there's the hope that these two rookie quarterbacks, in Gabriel and Sanders, that they could be the guy we've been searching for. But in my opinion, they have to play these guys as much as possible to figure it out.

There's the answer, given that we have two first rounders in the next year's draft and good talent coming in at the quarterback position. What are your thoughts on the Browns, floor and ceiling for the season? And do you think they should start one of these two rookies, and forget about Flacco and Pickett for 2025. I think I saw a headline today that Mary Kay, who is basically the Encyclopedia and Walter Cronkite

when it comes to Browns, knows all, reported that the first team reps starting at OTAs will be Kenny Pickett and Dylan Gabriel. My guess is that with the ones, that Joe Flacco won't get any reps with the ones during OTAs. And that's smart. He doesn't need any.

All the reps should go to, because Kenny Pickett might be a starting quarterback. I don't have an issue with that. But I think Dylan Gabriel, who was drafted above Shador, totally get that, and Shador Sanders, like, give them reps right now.

And then in training camp, you have some idea, bring them back, and give it a week, kind of rotate, and whoever's playing better, starts getting more reps moving forward. But you could argue,

you don't even start Joe Flacco. I think it's actually when I just came out of my mouth. I think what makes it difficult to do that at least week one or week two is that if everyone on the team thinks he's the best quarterback, it's hard to look Miles Garrett

and some other guys, I almost dropped like some other names. I'm like, yeah, Nick Chub's not even on the team. Is it Mara Cooper on the team? Has Amari Cooper signed? Did Mark Cooper sign anywhere? But, you know, some of your veteran players,

they're playing their athletes. they're playing their ass off. And if they think that Dylan Gabriel, Shador, Sanders, starts week one, they're not the best quarterback. They're not going to love that. Now, you can easily do that, like, after a month. But I would, I guess Amari Cooper was traded last year to the hell.

I listen to it every day. Really great stuff. I'm a little confused on the narrative that Stafford is significantly better than Purdy. Last year, Purdy and Stafford had almost identical numbers, but Stafford had four less picks. Stafford also has the benefit of having a better defense and healthier offense than Brock.

Yet Brock and him had the same stats. Also, Brock is significantly better runner than Stafford. Everyone says they would take a 37-year-old Stafford over 25-year-old Purdy, and it truly makes no sense to me. Is it because Stafford has a ring and Purdy doesn't? Well, like for the next five years, you would have to take Purdy. If I had to play a big game on the road in the elements, like Purdy has been awful in rain,

and cold. Luckily, he plays in San Francisco, when he avoids that. But that game that Stafford had against the Eagles, in that snow, shitty weather, like I have zero faith in Purdy can have that. So in a one game scenario, I would take Matt Stafford. I would also say in a one game scenario against the best

competition, I would take the 37-year-old Matt Stafford. But over the contract that Purdy just got, I would give that to Purdy over giving it to Stafford over the next four or five years. Right? So I think in a short, short window, Matt Stafford on an individual game basis is a better player.

I think Matt Stafford at times last year is a top five quarterback in the NFL. And I just don't think that about Purdy. Now, I also don't think Purdy's like the 20th quarterback, but I think Stafford's a better player. Now, if they were the same age, Stafford is in a different universe as a talent. And if you gave, there's a reason that Kyle Shanahan wanted to trade for him when McVe ended up getting him.

He wanted him. Why? Because Stafford is a special, special player. Now he's older and beat up, and there's a reason they're going year to year. But I think when it just came to a one game basis, if all the marbles were on the line, there's only a couple quarterbacks in the NFL. If they're all healthy, I would want over Matt Stafford. Okay, last question.

Why do you think the NHL is always the fourth most popular North American sport? The product is clearly much better than the NBA, and the players actually care about the sports and the games. What does the NHL have to do to get more popular? We talked about this with football. Every single human I knew growing up, whether you played in high school, whether you played in junior high,

whether you just played pickup, had played a little basketball. Because most people at one point in time in their life just shoot baskets, play pickup hoops, watch basketball on television, it's an easy sport to play. Wherever you live, right?

I've only lived in one cold, area place in Philly for a couple years. Other than that, I've lived in areas that it does not snow. Arizona, Fresno, the Bay Area, Davis, San Luis Obispo. So what you play in high school, what you grow up playing in when you're young, is to me what you usually gravitate toward, usually diehard tennis people like in junior high, high school, if you play in college, probably pay attention to what. Wimbledon, right? Why? Because they played it. Like, why do I like football and golf? Well, I've been playing it when I was young.

So I liked it. And I still like it when I'm 40, just like it when I'm 50 or 60. Where a lot of us all over the country, if you live in the South, if you live in Texas, if you live on the West Coast, you're not in freezing cold temperatures. Where's hockey big? Michigan, Minnesota, the Dakotas, where it's freezing cold? Canada, Russia. So, like, it is a very geographically specific sport where baseball, basketball, and football are played in all those areas as well. And hockey is just not that popular. I would imagine if you go to Texas or you go to North or South Carolina or Florida. I know they have pro teams there, but I'm just talking about, you know, people playing. LaCross has become more and more popular over the last 20 years, right? but where is it the most popular in the northeast so like the more and more people that are young that play directly benefit the sport on television at the highest level and more people way more people

in america play basketball or have played basketball than have ever played hockey so i i think that's a huge and it's just it's a it's specifically it's played on ice where I also think like every generation now basketball is a way bigger sport but it also has like just massive superstars when I was a kid I grew up on Michael Jordan and then we've morphed into LeBron and Steph and those are three of the biggest I mean Michael's in my lifetime the biggest athlete of my lifetime is Michael Jordan and I would put Steph and LeBron on the short list not named Michael Jordan Tiger Woods. Tom Brady. I mean, it's just

Wayne Gretzky is a very, very famous individual, but like he is by far, I would say the most famous hockey player, still to this day. There's like a Ruthian quality to him. I know Sydney's big, Ovechkin's big, McDavid's big. I don't even think

they approach Wayne Gretzky. Wayne Gretzky, once the last time he played hockey? 20 plus years? When he retired? Late 90s? So I think if you are going to have a lot of people that don't play, you're going to need an absolute superstar. He retired in 99.

So he hasn't played in 25 years. I mean, look at Michael Jordan. I mean, Michael Jordan hasn't played since 2003. This year I graduated high school. I'm 40 years old now. I would say Michael Jordan, I mean, is as famous as ever? I mean, his shoes are more popular than ever. every single person,

I would say most people in America that just follow sports, you just say Michael Jordan. I mean, it feels like he's as famous as he's ever been. I would say the other thing is, how many people do you see wearing Jordans now? I mean, they've become, listen, call me old school.

It's not like I wear suits very often. I think wearing tennis shoes with a suit is a fucking ugly look. I think it's a trend that I'm just not behind. And I don't pretend to be, you know, the trendiest individual. But I think it's a terrible look. But it's really popular.

And it's just really popular. I would say Jordan's in general. People wear them all over the place. Wherever you go, you see them. And I guess it's a long-winded way of saying, I don't think there's much hockey can do. I think there's a weather dynamic there that's tough to overcome and won't ever be overcome.

It doesn't mean like if you turn on a playoff hockey game, it's not if you like sports and competition, it's not an incredible product. I don't know. I would say the same about baseball and basketball. Like you turn on Nick's Pacers. It's going to be a war. You turned on Denver and OKC a lot of those games. Like this is an incredible competition.

And it's like we just know, like I don't really know. I follow sports for a living. It's like the only thing I've ever loved besides like my family most of my life. and I don't really know the rules like icing kind of get that like some penalty high sticking like can you not throw the puck like I don't baseball basketball

football I think it helps to all these games are somewhat complicated there are some rules I would say most sports fans like understand what they're watching it's what makes like trying to watch stuff you don't know like if I throw on

trying to pick a random sort like cricket you know it looks kind of cool but I got no clue what's going on. None. You could argue that's easy to follow about golf. Like pretty basic. Parrity or bogey? I was like, hit it out of bounds.

You got to re-hit. Hit in the water, you got to drop. It's not really that complicated. You know, football is really complicated, but we've been watching for so long. We have somewhat of a pretty good idea of mostly what's going on. Baseball is, you could argue,

is the most basic. You get three outs, Get three strikes, four balls. You got nine guys to bat and you just rotate. Got nine innings. You got four bases. So I think the ease to understand everything helps too. So I think there are probably a lot of dynamics.

Again, respect hockey. But I'd be lying if I said like I was super locked in about it. The volume. Hey guys, it's us. The Jonas Brothers. I'm Joe. I'm Kevin. And I'm Nick.

And guess what? We created our own. podcast called Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. We get to ask other people questions because we're sick and tired of being asked questions. Well, sick and tired is a strong way to put it, but, you know, tired and sick.

Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smigel and Friends. me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform?

We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, fam, it's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano. It's our favorite time of the year on our podcast, Point Game. the playoffs.

We're digging into the biggest surprises of the season. And I'm looking back on some of my greatest playoff moments. If we didn't talk ever again, I was crying. You just understood. That's how personal it got. Wow. Then after that game seven, Marquis come into it. He's like, you know, I love you, dog.

You know, it's all love. This was just playoffs. This was just basketball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This week on Crimless, Rory and I welcome a very special guest. When I did podcasts, I wear my sleep masks. I like where this is going.

So if you guys will indulge me. That's right. The incredibly talented and hilarious Will Ferrell on an episode dedicated to crimes committed by people named Will Ferrell. You're good for 300 crimes? Yeah. We've got two. I'm ready to go right up to present day. Listen to Crimless on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

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