The Herd with Colin Cowherd - 3 & Out - Raiders fire Antonio Pierce, Tom Brady will interview coaches, Importance of ownership

Episode Date: January 8, 2025

John reacts to Mark Davis and the Las Vegas Raiders firing first time head coach Antonio Pierce after a disappointing 4-13 season. He also discusses Tom Brady’s influence on the decision as part owner of the Raiders and how he will help conduct his first NFL coaching search. Next, John dives into the importance of ownership in the NFL and how certain owners aren't right for the NFL and are holding their teams back from winning. Lastly, John answers your questions during this episode's mailbag segment. 5:50 - Antonio Pierce fired 32:58 - Ownership in the NFL 42:05 - Mailbag Follow John on Twitter, Instagram and YouTube for the latest. Check out Gametime - the fastest growing ticketing app in the US, and the official ticketing app of 3 & Out and GoLow -  for tickets to all of your favorite NFL, NBA, NHL, NCAA teams. Concert and comedy show tickets, too. Go to Gametime now to create an account, download the app and use code JOHN for $20 off your first purchase. #Volume #HerdSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Hey, guys, it's us. The Jonas Brothers. I'm Joe. I'm Kevin. And I'm Nick. And guess what? We created our own podcast called, Hey, Jonas.

We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. We get to ask other people questions because we're sick and tired of being asked questions. Well, sick and tired is a strong way to put it. But, you know, tired and sick. Tired and sick.

you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy. Not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel.

Help an Acapella band with their Between Songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the ice. Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas.

And I'm C.J. Toledano. It's our favorite time of the year on our podcast, Point Game, the playoffs. We're digging into the biggest surprises of the season. And I'm looking back on some of my greatest playoff moments. If we didn't talk ever again, I was crying. You just understood. That's how personal it got. Wow.

Then after that game seven, Marquis' keep coming to you. He's like, you know, I love you, dog. You know, it's all love. This was just playoffs. This was just basketball. So listen to Point Game on the. iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And here's Heather with the weather.

Well, it's beautiful out there, sunny and 75, almost a little chilly in the shade. Now, let's get a read on the inside of your car. It is hot. You've only been parked a short time, and it's already 99 degrees in there. Let's not leave children in the back seat while running errands. It only takes a few minutes for their body temperatures to rise, and that could be fatal. Cars get hot, fast, and can't. be deadly. Never leave a child in a car. A message from Nitsa and the Ad Council.

This week on Crimless, Rory and I welcome a very special guests. When I would do a podcast, I wear my sleep masks. I like where this is going. So, if you guys will indulge me. That's right. The incredibly talented and hilarious Will Ferrell on an episode dedicated to crimes committed by people named Will Ferrell. You're good for 300 crimes? Yeah. We've got two. I'm ready to go right up to present day.

Listen to Crimless on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. The volume. What is going on, everybody? John Middlecop, 3 and Out Podcast. How are we doing, my people? We had some breaking news on about Tuesday around lunch. I actually just got out of a long sauna

trying to sweat out this cold flu from hell. Not sure it's working. Saw on my phone that Antonio Pierce, the Raiders head coach, has been fired. One and done. And Tom Brady will help Mark Davis find a new coach and obviously influence the firing. So I want to dive in. I obviously have an experience spent years around the Raiders when I worked in radio and just lay out some thoughts on that situation.

And I think a solution that can help Mark Davis, who, let's face it, is currently one of the worst owners in the NFL, despite going from poor in Oakland, where he played in the biggest dump you've ever seen. If you had ever been to the Coliseum, I promise you this, you didn't miss much, to now an incredible stadium on the strip in Las Vegas where money just flows.

But it doesn't change the fact of the team can't win anything ever. So we will dive in to the Raiders. There was also a general manager, surprise, I guess. I'm not super dialed in to the Tennessee Reddit boards, but the Titans fired Rand Carthin

who was just hired a couple years ago. From what I was told, he got a six-year contract and was fired this morning after hiring a coach I don't know, a year ago. So you just get some of these teams, man. These owners, it's really...

Can you imagine what like Andy Reid and Brett Veacher you're thinking today. It's just not a fair fight. So we'll dive into that. We'll do a little mailbag as well. At John Middlecoff. At John Middlecoff is the Instagram firing those DMs. I'm going to have Jackson on tomorrow because we got a playoff game Thursday. We've got a playoff game Friday.

So we'll do some college football tomorrow. But obviously there's just a lot going on right now in the NFL. So I wanted to hit on these stories as they were breaking. Like I said, mailbag. Subscribe to the podcast. If you listen on Collins. YouTube page. Thanks for everyone that's watching the YouTube page.

We got that. Subscribe to that as well. All of our content is video and audio. We like being multi-dimensional here. We're like Lamar Jackson. We can run and pass. Before we get into Antonio Pierce, you know I've got to tell you about my friends. My partners and the official ticketing app of this podcast, Game Time. Here's the thing with Game Time. They're the best ticketing app I've ever used.

They really are. It doesn't get any easier. Because what do you want to do? Do you want to go to an NFL playoff game? Do you want to go to an NHL game? Do you want to go to a college game? Do you want to go to a concert? Do you want to get outside, sing some songs? Take a love one, take a friend.

Just go have some fun on a weekend. They got you covered. It's the easiest app you'll ever use. You can search by venue. You can search by event. You can search by artists. You can search by team. Price points, depending on the stadium or the arena.

Cannot recommend it enough. So take the guesswork out of buying tickets with GameTime. Download the GameTime app, create an account, and use the code, for $20 off for first purchase. Terms apply, again, create an account and redeem the code, J-O-H-N for $20 off. Download the GameTime app.

Today, last minute, tickets, lowest price is guaranteed. For a long time when I lived in the Bay Area, I was known as a Raider hater, and people thought that I have, like, a vendetta toward the Raiders and specifically Mark Davis. So I just want to lay something out. When I worked for a radio station in the Bay Area that I think is still alive,

might have gone under, I'm not quite sure. But when I was there, they had the Raiders. And we, like, they were the official radio station of the Raiders. So their games were on there. And by, like, my second year working there, I was hosting the postgame. So I was going to all the games, hosting the post game shows during training camp. They used to have training camp in Napa. And we were host shows, you know, from Charles Woodson to Seabass to Derrickard.

You name it. Like, you'd have the players, the coaches. Mark Davis, would come hang out. And it was awesome. If you love football, regardless, like the team was really, really bad. But it's just really cool being that close, up personal. You know, I haven't coming from an NFL background when I worked at a team to transition

to doing that. I really enjoyed it. Now, the problem is when you do a post-game show and the team really sucks, you just, it's hard, you know, and the guy I was working for at the time said, let it lose. do not hold back. And what are you going to say when they're 3 and 13, you know, 4 and 12? This is at the time when they were playing 16 games. And the reality is, is when you host a post-game show, especially a home game, the owner listens as he drives home. And, you know, I'd get word that Mark would get mad over the things I would say. I know the president of the team got really mad at me a couple times for saying that, hey, they could go winless. at the time they were 0 and 10

and I kind of laid out their last six games I think they ended up going 3 and 3 down the stretch but they were this was a road game so I was back in the Bay Area and the dude called my phone and just I didn't pick up but lit into my voicemail about like how negative I am

again they're 0 and 10 at the time and I think they had an interim coach Tony Sprano RIP but it's it's people get very sensitive in that organization and I'm sure that's true in a lot of different organizations, but specifically with anything related to the, you know, the Raiders and the property revolving around their games, which can be difficult because they have consistently sucked

for the majority of my life, and definitely the majority of my adult life post-John Gruden. I think they've made the playoffs twice in well over multiple decades. And I think they've only had two winning records during that time. But I do believe this. I have no ill will toward Mark Davis or toward the franchise in 2025. My life has been dramatically better off ever since then. Right? So this is not personal.

And I do think, one, Mark's a nice guy. He's easy to talk to and bullshit with. And I do think he loves football. He means well trying to do this. He gives a lot of effort. You know, trying to make the Raiders right. And filling in for his father, Al, who is one of the most legendary sports personalities

in the history of American professional sports. And just probably the history of American sports in general. Right. So those shoes are hard to fill. And if you're my age or younger, the Al Davis, you remember, you know, the guy in the 2000s, his body was falling apart. It was really ugly. Is not the guy that helped define the sport of football.

and was one of the pillars of the guy that built the business that we all see and know now. And anyone, especially of a certain age, guys over 60 that have coached in the NFL for a long time, the Andy Reads, the Bill Belichick's, those type guys, you get them talking about Al Davis, they revered the man. And because of what he stood for and, you know, the sport that he helped build up to create and give them a lane to make $15, $20 million coaching football. football. And I think there's a powerful history behind the Raiders that when I was around, and I'm a 49er guy, like most people in California. Like it's heavily split, and I think a huge reason for that

is over the last 30 years, the Raiders have mainly sucked. And, you know, the Niners, when I was a kid, were rattling off Super Bowls in Northern California. And then even in the mid-90s, they won a Super Bowl. And then since they've made seven conference championships in the last 15 years. And the Raiders have just sucked. So part of gaining fans, over time is like winning. The Patriots have way more fans now than they did 30 years ago. Right, the reason the Packers and the Pittsburgh Steelers have a lot of fans, they've been winning for decades.

That's how you build up a fucking business. And the Raiders have struggled with that. And the old adage that money doesn't buy you happiness, what was going on before they moved to Vegas. I'm going a long-winded way before we talk about Al Dave, or I mean, Antonio Pierce, is, like their business was not sustainable in Oakland. Just like Joe Jacobs wasn't, just like obviously the Oakland A's was not.

That area, it's, they should dynamite, all the teams are gone. Now, I would dynamite the whole thing and blow it up. They played in the worst stadium you've ever seen, and they weren't making any money relative to these other franchises. So they make the move to Vegas and they are flush with cash, unlike they ever could have dreamed of in the Bay Area, partly because even if things were going well, the 49ers are like the Yankees. They take up so much oxygen and surround so much of the cash, the people with the money

associate with them and funnel Jed the money. That was never going to happen to Mark. So going to Vegas was an incredible business move. But literally nothing has changed. Like I said, his heart's in the right place. He is a terrible owner. Since he bought the team, or I mean, since his father died and he took over. The Raiders are 68 and 111.

And they run through coaches like, you know, you do a gallon of milk if you got a couple little kids. It's insane how quickly they go through coaches. When he tries to do the right thing, give John Gruden 10 years $100 million, that blows up in his face. When he hires Josh McDaniels, a coach that feels like he had rehabilitated his entire life, that blows up in his face. When he listens to Devonte Adams and Max Crosby, who a year ago, most people would say two of the better players in the league. And they're like, we want Antonio Pierce to be our head coach. He's like, okay, I'll just, I'll lean with these guys.

Six months later, Devante Adams is like, I don't even like this guy anymore. I want out. And mid-season Max Crosby's like, yeah, if this doesn't, we don't figure this shit out, I'm going to want out. Good life lesson, don't listen to your players. This ain't the NBA. Like, hire the right coach because you believe he's the right coach. Don't try to right or wrong because you probably regret. not hiring Richard Passachia, when Gruden got fired and he led you to the playoffs.

This was not that. Richard coached in the NFL for a long time. Antonio Pierce was coached at Arizona State a couple years ago. It was an absolute joke of a program when Herman Edwards was there. Such a joke that Herm Edwards coaching college football for five fucking years, gets fired, ESPN takes them back, and they're like, yeah, we don't even, we don't think you know anything about college. The guy had literally just spent five years coaching college.

I'd been told the guy didn't even know half the rosters. names of the players on his team. And listen, I'm not anti-Hirm Edwards, but like, that operation wasn't embarrassment. Then Antonio Pierce goes from linebacker coach to head coach immediately, and I'd be lying if I watched much Raider football the last couple years, but I follow a lot of people that cover and watch the Raiders really closely. It wasn't going well. Now, would Bill Walsh have won 11 games with this team? Of course not. But can you keep Antonio Pierce? And this is two-sided, right? I think Mark Davis is just completely in over his head.

And I think it's a complete disaster right now. But I also think when you see Andy Reid, Sean Payton, and Jim Harbaugh in your division, Antonio Pierce can't be your head coach. It just can't happen because you got no shot. It'd be like going on a SEAL Team 6 mission and you're going and I hand you a Nerf gun. Everyone else is fucking locked and loaded with real weapons. And I give you a Nerf gun. You get killed.

You get wiped out. And that was going to happen if Antonio Pierce stayed when you just looked at their division. And last year, the bluster and everyone pounding their chest smoking cigars after they beat the Chiefs on Christmas. Like how'd that age? The Chiefs went on to win the Super Bowl. The Raiders stayed being a joke. Now, here's the thing, and I give Mark Davis credit for this. Mark Davis is always like the players.

He was always really good friends with the players from what I had been told when he was younger and out. was the owner. He's always had a natural inclination when he took over like Marcel Reese, the Pro Bowl fullback when I first got around the team was like his good buddy. I was a part of the team for a long time. And obviously he leaned on Max Crosby and Devante Adams. Now that blows up in your face. And I think he realized like I just can't be listening to players. I need someone in my life that is not putting on helmets in a pad for my team because they're going to have a bias in an agenda. And Tom Brady, while a former player, now is in business. and now has an equity partnership.

You know, for how big 1%, 2%, half a percent, I don't have the financials in front of me, but he clearly owns a tiny little piece of the Raiders. And from what I had been told, Mark Davis is the one that made that happen. He went after Tom, he created that relationship because it's important to him. He wants to, like, one, gain some positive momentum.

He's really trying. It just nothing works. And it was reported by Schefter that Tom Brady is going to be part, of these interviews. Just like it was reported earlier this year, that Tom Brady is going to start interviewing quarterbacks at the combine. Here's what I think big picture

should happen, and if I'm Mark Davis, I would push for this. Listen, Tom. Like, Tom Brady, you're calling games, not because you want to call games. They gave you $37 million. If they paid you $10 million, you would not do it. So we have to acknowledge you're doing it for the money.

And listen, I'm pro-Tom Brady. He's not good at TV. he's not good at all. And he's no dummy, he has to know that. He's not natural at it. It feels clunky. It just doesn't really work. And it's hard to give up a job that pays you $37 million a year.

And he's under contract for nine more years after this year. He never made that much money a year playing quarterback in the NFL. So he's being paid an astronomical amount of money. I'm as pro-capitalism as any human. I understand why it's like, even if this sucks, We all have a price and we would do things that we don't want to do for a certain amount of money. We'd suck it up. But there is an opportunity here that if you're Mark Davis, why don't you just make him the footballs are grand pooh-bah of the organization?

Why don't you just give him like a John Elway type role? Like Tom, what is the price it would cost us to make you the president of the team or the president of all a football operation? We have seen Bill Parcells do it before. we saw Holmgren do it before. We saw Elway do it. Why don't you just do it? Because I already want you playing a role in who my head coach is going to be. I already want you playing a role in who my quarterback's going to be.

I've proven that I have no clue what I'm doing. Absolutely none. And I went from living the equivalent, and I've been there too. I've lived in some shitty apartments. I have lived in some really, really shitty apartments. Honestly, not even that long ago. When I was in the Bay Area, when my buddy got married or got, got engaged. He's like, I was living in the city in the sweet apartment with him. He's like,

hey, man, you got to go. I started looking around. He started seeing the prices. I'm like, I can't afford it in these single bedrooms. So I had to move outside the city. This is when the city was booming. In like 2013, and just lived in this shithel. Now, it was close to the water, so that part was cool, but it was a terrible place. And 10 years later, I live in a golf and gated community. But money doesn't change, like, the way I feel every morning when I get up. Like changing homes. I was happy many days in that really crappy apartment. Like money does not change. If you're an unhappy person, you will stay an unhappy person.

If you're a happy person, you will stay a happy person. Whether you got $10, obviously there are some things that become easier in life. But just in terms of like your everyday operation, you are who you are at a certain time. And Mark Davis went from an NFL standpoint being broke to now being flush with cash in Vegas and nothing has changed. absolutely nothing has changed. They are still one of the laughing stocks of the league. They just happen to have this sweet stadium on the strip that's really cool. But their team blows.

And the consumer, if you put them on after like week three, we'll watch another game. They're unwatchable. They're an awful product. And he has been the one consistent thing with this team for the last whatever, 14 years. And to me, if you're him, this is an easy one. Tom, what can I do to make this worth it for you? What can I pay you? Do you need $30 million?

You need $50 million? Can we do some sort of bump in equity? Because I know this for myself. I'm an incentive-laced individual. When I have skin in the game, I work harder. If you just paid me a salary, whatever that salary may be, a million dollars, $10 million, $100,000, $50,000, whatever it is. After a certain point, I would kind of get bored.

but when I have incentives, when I have the harder I work, the more money I can make, I know most people in sales can relate to this, that gets me going. Even though the actual dollars that come my way don't really change the way I feel. But if I'm Tom Brady, who clearly likes money, given the lifestyle he leads, like can we bump up some of this equity that you have to make this, hey, over the course of the next 10 years, if you hit these incentives as a team, maybe you get an extra couple points on the team. Like, why don't we do something like,

what can we do to make it worth your while? Because I have proven, I have no clue. I've tried to hire a former legend here, blew up in my face. I've tried to hire the hot offensive coordinator, blew up in my face. I hired the interim that my star players wanted. They couldn't stand the guy six months later. And one thing I heard with Antonio Pierce

is that when he became the head coach, he changed a little bit, when he became the full-time, got a big head, got cocky. And I think that turned off some people. And listen, that's, it was a lot happening really, really fast. And clearly he grew up a Raider fan from Southern California, but it was a disaster. It really was. And this team now is a complete joke.

It really is. Before, when I first was around them, they were a joke with no money. They were the poorest team in the NFL. now they're no longer that, but they're still a joke on the field. So it's like, you got your stadium figured out, you got your windfall of cash figured out, how do we just become competitive? I'm not talking to compete for Super Bowls. How do we just compete on a yearly basis to be above 500, to try to make wild cards every year?

How do we do that? And I'm not saying Tom Brady knows what he's doing, but every single person they hire fails. and I just think you've got to give a guy a chance that has seen winning at the highest level for multiple decades and given his position, it was much closer to a coach front office individual than it was just some random player on the team. Given the hours that he put in, given his dedication,

and let's face it, Tom Brady's a football guy. He's a football junkie. He's trying to get his fix. with this television gig, no chance is working. I listen to him, I hear him. It just sounds like he's trying his hardest. They're paying him $37 million to put a smile on his face.

It's not for him. He's a smart guy. He knows it. He's not natural at that. It's not his gig. But like running a football team, being around football every single day, going to practice, dealing with the coaches,

it's what he knows better than anything. So if I'm, Mark Davis, I just beg Tom Brady and we try to figure out some sort of number to make this worthwhile and to leave the Fox situation and just do this full time because he's already dabbling and listen, he starts interviewing coaches and this is also a problem. You got this guy, this is, you know, when we talk about these different connections of these owners being like, wait, Tom's a part owner of the Raiders and he's calling him. games. We have to let them in our facility.

And now he's going to start interviewing our coordinators. If they interview, let's say, six, seven guys, they're only going to hire one. So he's able to pry some information out. And that was a famous Al Davis thing. He would interview a ton of people. He wasn't even interested in hire

and a half. He would just get notes from them. He would just use it as like a CIA mission to accumulate information. And I just wonder if these owners, like if I owned another team and the Raiders wanted to interview my coordinator I'd be like especially if I'm an NFC team if I'm like the fucking lions

it's like wait you're just going to interview Ben Johnson and Erin Glenn and find out the way we do things like no we already don't allow you into the building now you're going to bring this guy in and Tom's going to conduct the interview obviously the Raider fans are a very loyal group it's a passionate group I've always disagreed with

the league is better when the Raiders are good like the league has never been more popular and it's never gained more popular over these last the internet era and the raiders have been irrelevant so like that's just factually incorrect but but i do think there is something about the colors and the edge to the franchise that is just long gone i mean whatever we see in this operation is just bad football it's it's unwatchable it's an unwatchable product and the crazy thing is over the last couple years like they've acquired good players like devon in his prime. Max Crosby, now Brock Bowers, they had Josh Jacobs. Like, they get good players here

and there, but just nothing ever works. And some things bad luck. Like obviously Mark, you know, the NFL leaking all, Gruden's emails that led to him getting fired. It's not Mark's fault. Obviously, you could argue that Josh McDaniels had already proven who he was. Now, I'd say that was like a decade in between each other. It just turns out he was just as bad. And people couldn't stand the guy. And he's, he had one of the great people. campaigns of pretending he had changed when it turns out, no, he was exactly the same. And they were in a tough spot when they hired Antonio Pearson. You got those two guys begging you.

But I don't think any organization worth their salt would let the star player on the team determine who the head coach is going to be. And a year later, that clearly blew up in their face. The stadium's awesome. We know their practice facility. I remember Andy Reid said at the Super Bowl, he's like, this is the nicest thing I've ever seen. Remember Belichick was there for something and was blown away? He's like, this is, this is the most beautiful. I mean, it's second to none what they're dealing with. But like I said, you can take the gutter rat and put them in the high-rise penthouse. It doesn't make that person no longer

a gutter rat. And right now the Raiders are just like the gutter rats of the NFL. And it, I think the only way they could change is to make Tom Brady the lead dog on this. run point, run the organization. Obviously, you have to financially make it worth his while, but given that he already owns a percentage of the team, albeit small, I think there is a deal there to be worked out. NFL playoffs, we're talking about the NFL playoffs. You bet we are.

Get in on the action at Draft King Sportsbook, an official sports betting partner of the NFL. Scoring touchdowns is a key to winning in the NFL playoffs, and the key to you scoring big is betting on them at Draft Kings. The number one place to bet touchdowns. Ready to place your first bet? Try betting on something as simple like a player to score a touchdown. Go to Draft King Sportsbook app and make your pick.

Here's another reason to watch your favorite players crush it in the playoffs. New customers bet five bucks to get $200 in bonus bets instantly. Score big during the NFL playoffs with the Draft King Sportsbook. on the Drafking Sportsbook app. Use the code John, J-O-H-N. That's code John for new customers to get 200 in bonus bets instantly when you bet just five bucks. Only on Drafking Sportsbook.

The crown is yours. Gambling problem, call 1-800 gambler. In New York, call 8778-Hop-N-Y or text Hope-N-Y-4-669. In Connecticut, help is available for problem gambling. Call 888-889-77-or or visit ccpg.org. Please play responsibly. On behalf of Boot Hill Casino-Win Resort in Kansas, 21 and over. Age and eligibility varies by jurisdiction.

Void in Ontario. Bonus, bets expire 168 hours after issuance. Four additional terms and responsible gaming resources, see dkng.com slash audio. Hey, it's us, the Jonas brothers, and guess what? We have some big news. What's the news? Huge news. We created our own podcast called, Hey, Jonas.

We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts throughout there. But this one's a trend. extra special. So how do we actually come up with a name Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it. Well, we were thinking I'm originally calling it

one of the early names of our band before Jonas Brothers. This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast, where people could call in and say, hey Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it.

Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smigel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes.

Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano, and our podcast Point Game is about defying the odds. Like LeBron heading into the playoffs without Luca and Austin Reed. And finding ways to win no matter what. He's the smartest player to ever play the game.

His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before. And he knows without Luca and Austin Reeves, I got to manipulate the game. We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the playoffs. I think Joker's going to be exhausted this series because when they don't have Rudy in the lineup, he has to really guard guys like Nas Reid. He has to guard Julius Randall.

And then he has to give us everything he gives us on the night-to-night basis on offense. And when IT's friends stop by, like Quentin Richardson, we dive into some playoff history too. Steve Nash will get that thing That man, hell get the flying. He running up the court, licking his fingers why he got the ball, like,

after you go through a training camp with that, I said, you figure it out real quick. Get your ass up and down the court, and you're going to get the ball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This week on Crimless, we're joined by our first ever guest.

Sorry, our first ever human guest. I don't think I could be in the same room with Shamrock the parrot. I'd be too nervous. That's right. The very funny Will Ferrell joins Rory Scovel and me, Josh Dean, for an episode dedicated to the many crimes committed by people also named Will Ferrell. They called to his fellow officer for the nippers. What are the nippers?

Very good question. No, I was thinking, would that be a good name for like a salad dressing? Simple assault. And it's a play on word, salt? Maybe not. I say we invest in. There's only one way to know. This did not amuse the cops.

By the way, normally the cops are amused, but this did not amuse the cops. Will even comes clean about some of his own crimes. I didn't get caught. You know why? If you don't want to be suspected of anything, you whistle as you walk. Listen to crime lists on the

Iheart radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Agency. The ability to know that we're the experts in our own body. On the podcast. as cultivating her space, Dr. Dom and Terry Lomax create a space where black women can show up fully and be heard. I wholeheartedly think, you know, you hit 30. You shouldn't have to share room with anybody. Mm-hmm. From navigating friendships and healing to setting boundaries and prioritizing

your mental health. These are real honest conversations. We don't always get to have out loud. Totally unreasonable with different parts of life, right? Like, oh, have all three meals and make sure you're mindful during all of them? Absolutely not. During one meal, I'm standing. I'm standing and handing my children food. Because healing, empowerment, and resilience aren't just ideas, their practices.

And this Mental Health Awareness Month, there's no better time to pour back into yourself. Listen to cultivating her space on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. You know, speaking of just ownership, I think one theme is just because you make money on your own doesn't mean you're going to know what you're doing

when you run a sports team. Dan Snyder was a self-made guy. He was a billionaire by the time. He was like 32 or 33. So like he was an incredible business story. And he's easily one of the worst owners we've ever seen in all of sports. And we have seen guys get handed organizations

from their family and run good organizations. Like Clark Hunt didn't buy the chiefs. Lamar did. his dad. And he's done a really good job over the last decade working hand in hand with Andy Reed. Jeffrey Lur is born into money. You know, Jed York was handed the team from his parents. And since he's been the boss, they've made seven conference championships. So just because you're an owner's kid or a rich guy's kid doesn't mean you can't function.

But I think we've seen a theme of some of these kids that one might not like football as much. as their parents did, and two, just be completely over their skis. Like, the Tennessee Titans right now are run by Amy, the daughter of the former owner that passed away several years back. And I think it's clear at this point in time that she has absolutely no clue what she's doing. A year ago, she fired Vrable, who was the number one candidate on the open market. Two years ago, she hired Rand Carthin from the 49ers and gave her a year ago.

him a six-year contract to be the GM. Two years later, he got fired. I can't even imagine I've been fired twice. One time my contract technically ran out. The other time, I still had like, I don't know if it was six months or four months, but I remember the feeling of just like getting paid.

I didn't have to do anything. And I was making 80 grand at the time. I can't even imagine what it's like to be being like, wait, I make $3 million a year and they owe me this, they owe me $12 million more. So every two weeks, they're going to send me a check or put a direct deposit into my account. And I don't have to do shit. Incredible

feeling. Even though if you're ambitious, like it's not what you want. But listen, it could be way worse. I mean, there are a lot of people struggling in society that would die for that opportunity. So he gets paid to go away for years. But how could someone a year ago basically go, hey, we're going to go with this guy, we're going to get rid of Rabel, and then a year later fire. And I was texting some people that know him. And I don't know, ran really at all. We have DMed over the years. Just kind of pleasantries, congrats, and just BS a little bit. But from all accounts, I've never heard a bad word about the guy. And I've heard people think he's pretty good at his job. And just really good, like, people, motivator guy. I mean, former player, just kind of

gets it. And by all accounts, he was the guy leading the Will Levis. push, which obviously was a disaster. And sometimes, listen, you miss on a player, it sucks. And sometimes you miss on a guy like Will Levis that embarrasses everybody. So that might have been just a situation that I can't look at you the same because you were the guy banging the table for Will Levis. But regardless, what could have changed in the last year to go from, we're going all in on you, we're letting you pick the coach.

He got to hire Brian Callahan last year. Think about that. he hired the coach last year to now go we're going to fire you we're going to keep the coach we're going to hire another GM and everything's going to be off kilter

you can't run an organization like that these teams have no chance none how do you compete with the Ravens who just every year Eric DeCosta Steve Bushati John Harbaugh

how could the chiefs does Brett Veach Andy Reid Mhomes, Lamar. Like, how could you even dream of competing with them? It's impossible. It literally is not possible. And it's not random that they have the number one pick overall. Just like next year, if you had to go, are the Titans going to be any good?

Probably not. Like, are the Giants going to be any good? Probably not. Are the Raiders going to be any good? Probably not. Are the Falcons finally going to win? Probably not. It's the same thing over and over and over again.

And it starts with ownership. It's why when I hear people say the Bears is a good job, bullshit. Working for the McCaskies, a mom and pop shop that has like seven people that have direct lines to him and a president that you kind of have to answer to is not a good job. That's a terrible gig. We think we talked so much about good jobs like, well, do you? They got a quarterback, do they got talents? Like, do they got draft picks? They got cap space.

Who is the owner? Who owns the team and what do I have to do with that guy? Same thing with the Jets. Like, got a lot of pieces. Okay, but Woody Johnson owns the team. Good luck dealing with that. The Jags, they got what? An ownership that is consistently

Shepard losing after losing after losing teams? Like, all they do is. lose under Shod Khan. Every time you hear him, you're like, hey, this guy seems nice guy, seems impressive. Obviously, self-made great American business story. Yet every time during the fall, you watch his teams, they just

lose. And then where do they draft? Really high. All the time. It's like their team's full of top picks. Well, yeah, because they picked them, because they always lose. So, I think we spend so much time. What about this quarterback? What about this cap space? Who's the owner? And if you've got a crappy owner, you got no shot.

If Tom Brady didn't exist, I would say it is a lock that the Raiders are going to continue to suck. But maybe he just passed it off a little bit, and maybe they got a chance. Maybe they can't overcome that. Because maybe Mark's still involved, the Raiders ethos that comes from the Davis family,

is not something you can shake. And maybe that was really important. Pre-Internet, but post-internet, they just can't overcome it. And I say the same thing with the Titans. For whatever reason, this lady, Like, she owns the team. You've got an uphill battle.

It is going to be really, really difficult. Because clearly she's got people in her ear. Clearly, she changes her mind all the time. And I'm not against changing your mind. I do it all the time with takes. Like, information is fluid. But unless something crazy comes out, like you just went all in on this guy a year ago.

What could possibly have changed? And now you have a guy who is doing, interviews for the GM who used to be a scout, just a bizarre, poorly run organization. And I think the parallels of a lot of these are kids that are completely over their head. They have no clue what they're doing. They just inherit this $3, $4, $5, $6 billion team. Everyone's watching you.

It's not an enviable position if you're not just a football addict. Even if you were, it'd be really challenging. You become a public-facing figure, a ton of pressure. You have a community or a city depending on you. You have millions of fans that, you know, I would say invest a lot of energy and time into your successes. And I think it can overwhelm people. And I think we see a consistent theme that these owners, some of them, are just completely overwhelmed and lost at sea. Hey, it's us, the Jonas brothers.

And guess what? We have some big news. What's the news? Huge news. we created our own podcast called Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to a...

We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts throughout there. But this one's extra special. So how do we actually come up with a name Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it. Well, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band before Jonas Brothers. This is how you guys remember it going down?

Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast, where people could call in and say, hey, Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, Not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and Friends, me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, fam? This Isaiah Thomas.

And I'm C.J. Toledano and our podcast Point Game is about defining the odds. Like LeBron heading into the playoffs without Luca and Austin Reed. And finding ways to win no matter what. He's the smartest player to ever play the game. His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before. And he knows without Luca and Austin Reeves, I got to manipulate the game. We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the playoffs. I think Joker's going to be exhausted this series because when they don't have Rudy in the lineup,

he has to really guard guys like Nas Reid. He has to guard Julius Randall. And then he has to give us everything he gives us on the night-to-night basis on offense. And when IT's friends stop by, like Quentin Richardson, we dive into some playoff history too. Steve Nass would get that thing. That man, hell get the flying. He running up the court, licking his fingers while he got the ball. Like, after you go through a training camp with that, Isaiah, you figure it out real quick.

Get your ass up and down the court, and you're going to get the ball. So listen to Point Game on the, iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Agency, the ability to know that we're the experts in our own body. On the podcast, cultivating her space, Dr. Dom and Terry Lomax create a space where black women can show up fully and be heard. I wholeheartedly think, you know, you hit 30. You shouldn't have to share one with anybody.

Mm-hmm. From navigating friendships and healing to setting boundaries and prioritizing your mental health, These are real honest conversations. We don't always get to have out loud. Totally unreasonable with different parts of life, right? Like, oh, have all three meals and make sure you're mindful during all of them? Absolutely not. During one meal, I'm standing.

I'm standing and handing my children food. Because healing, empowerment, and resilience aren't just ideas. They're practices. And this Mental Health Awareness Month, there's no better time to pour back into yourself. Listen to cultivating her space on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. This week on Crimless, we're joined by our first ever guest. Sorry, our first ever human guest. I don't think I could be in the same room with Shamrock the pair.

I'd be too nervous. That's right. The very funny, Will Farrell joins Rory Scoble and me, Josh Dean, for an episode dedicated to the many crimes committed by people also named. Will Ferrell. They called to his fellow officer for the nippers. What are the nippers? Very good question. No, I was thinking, would that be a good name for like a salad dressing?

Simple assault. And it's a play on word, salt? Maybe not. I say we invest and we see. There's only one way to know. This did not amuse the cops. By the way, normally the cops are amused, but this did not abuse the cops. Will even comes clean about some of his own crimes.

I didn't get caught. You know why? if you don't want to be suspected of anything, you whistle as you walk. Listen to crime lists on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Okay, let's dive into a little thing we like to call the Middle Cough mailbag. At John Middlecough. At John Middlecough is my Instagram. Fire in those DMs.

Get your questions answered here on the pod. Question for the bag. Should major sports leagues explore a tax, mindful salary cap for a. example, 25 mil in Tennessee and 25 mil in New York are very different numbers. So should the New York teams have a larger cap to offset state taxes? Well, if you think about it, let's use the Jets, Giants, Rams, and Niners against the Titans. They all get the same amount of money from the league, right? The money that pays for the players is the television money. And when they get that money from the league, let's just pick a number this offseason.

say it's $400 million. Could be more, could be less. I'm just picking that number. Well, my salary cap's $250 million. So the money I get as the Titans and the money I get as the 49ers is the exact same. So I can't control my state income tax, right? Federal income tax are the same. All these guys are the highest level pay like 37%, 38%.

Obviously, when you're in a place in California and New York, that number then goes above 50%. But in Tennessee, that number is zero. So it's an enormous swing. But the teams in the states don't control that. And they don't pay that. The player does, aka the employee. So why would they want to be like, well, let's say 20 million in Tennessee would actually be $30 million. Again, this might not be exact, or $25 million for the 49ers or Rams.

So I got to spend more money, yet we're both getting the. same amount of money for that person to then pay the government. There's a long-winded way of saying the owners wouldn't want that. Because their expenses would be higher, but it wouldn't change anything. So I think I see what you're saying. And if I was a player, I would want that. But if I was an owner, I would not. Because the taxes don't impact like my profitability,

especially like the Niners and Rams are proving like they can win. The Yankees are proven they can win. So I hear what you're saying, but I think that's something they have talked about on the internet that is just not only not realistic, the people in charge would not want it because their expenses would rise but their profits would not. So it would just be less money coming in, right, and more going out. I listen to your take on bulky and how he is a good Paul. politician. What is your take on

Telesco? As you said, Bulkie survived a bunch of coaches being fired with the Niners, but Telesco was with the Chargers forever, and he is lasting with the Raiders now. Is Telesco a good politician? As a Charger fan, I always thought he was terrible and made

no moves during the season to try and improve the weakness in the roster. I don't know him personally. I actually always thought he's pretty solid. I always thought the Chargers teams, their downfall was the coach, not the roster.

And the coach was the Spanos families choosing. I think if you gave Telesco Harbaugh over the last five or eight years, they would have won a lot. And I can't speak to this situation with the Raiders. I had heard when he got

fired from the Chargers that he was cool, that he was cool, with he had made a decent amount of money and just take a deep breath. You know, that industry can wear you out. And what I had heard is that Mark Davis pays him a lot of money. Like offered him a job that I'm sure when he got fired, he didn't expect to get. He got fired the day after he lost the Raiders like 70 to 10. And Mark Davis, I think he's one of the higher paid GMs of the league.

So you have year one, like one of the best players in the league last year, Brock Bowers was his first pick. So I just wonder, now, just because you survive when the coach gets fired does not mean you'll survive. We'll see who they end up hiring, what Tom Brady's role is. So I guess it's a long way of saying, I have a better understanding of bulky than I do. I don't know much about Telesco besides just him picking players. What are your thoughts on this? basically should the Vikings look to trade

JJ McCarthy for a first round pick this year. Why would I trade a first round pick for a rookie that was a project to begin with with a torn knee that doesn't make sense? Also, do you think he would be the first pick this year? I don't, out of all the quarterbacks drafted last year, he was the worst one

and the biggest project. Cam Ward and Shador both have bigger arms. J.J. has a bigger arm than Shadour. Cams. I would say Cam Ward a better prospect than J.J. McCarthy. I would say most people would probably say J.J. McCarthy is every bit as good, if not better prospect,

than Shador. I'm talking about coming out of college. This, you know, they showed J.J. McCarthy during the Vikings' Lions game. And I wasn't super locked in. Like, obviously, he had a big, bushy hair. He looked like a surfer. And then the day after, I saw on Instagram, someone like took a longated video of what they what they had shown on Sunday night football

and I didn't catch this during the game but he looks like he's lost 20 pounds I got a what was his weight at the combine my guess would be 215 pounds he was just when he came out of college for hardball I thought he was like big and strapped and look good so he was 220 pounds at the NFL combine I was would guess off the video that I saw on Instagram of what they showed him on Sunday night football that he might have weighed 190 pounds. And I would imagine with a major knee injury, you know, lifting and eating and it's just his routine has dramatically changed. He did not look good. I do not think given his knee injury and given that video that I saw that they could

trade him for a first round pick right now. So I don't even think that's an option. And I've said over over the Viking, why would you trade him if you were the Vikings? Even if we end up rolling with Donald, like I still might keep him around. It's not like he's breathing down Donald's neck. I'm a Bears fan, and I don't know if you've heard the reports that run. I mean, the great part is about the internet. You see all the reports. I don't miss much.

There's a lot going on. People are like, can you break down all the candidates, the teams? Like, I'm not doing that. It's hard to keep up with. There's so many rumors flying. There's so much going on right now. You almost got to let it breathe. And for me, it's not like I'm kind of just talking about it all.

I do get, like, in an individual, if you're a Bears fan and you're seeing who we're interviewing or a Jets fan seeing who we're interviewing, it can just be a lot just because it's name after name after name. Now, the Jets is probably different than most because they're interviewing GMs and coaches. The Bears, you're just going to be interviewing coaches. but Ryan Poles is urging the front office to go in a different direction than Ben Johnson for fear that Ben may force him out. My question for you is, if this is true, would you force polls out in order to get Ben Johnson or do you think the Bears should stick with Ryan and whoever he decides?

There was a viral yesterday. When did I go to the gym? Probably early morning, like 9 o'clock. and I was just, I was just had to get my blood flow and hadn't worked out much in the last week. Hadn't really done anything. I had gone for one walk in a week. And on that walk, I was really far away from my house. And I had some serious stomach problems.

And I was like, oh my God, I'm in major trouble. And while there is a golf course and because we're in the desert, these things called washes, it's the desert. So it's like not trees and like soft bushes. It's not really an area where I was in trouble. And I thought about calling Maria to come pick me up, but I wasn't going to have enough time. And there's this one like communal pool that basically has a spa.

It's like a little park, but it has a little pool. It's nice. Has a spa that I think sometimes people use it. I don't have spas in their backyard in like a barbecue area. And luckily people were there. And I walked in the, The gate was open because I didn't have a key.

The bathroom was locked, so I was in such pay. I was just, I had no choice. It was very awkward. I asked the people in the spa if I could use their key to use a bathroom. Luckily I did. And I timed myself because I didn't want to be in there like five minutes. These people were like touching our keys. But I don't know how I got off.

So I'm at the gym watching. I click on an NFL network and it's Shod Khan and Trent bulky. basically two boxes. It looks like Trent's at the office. Shod's probably at one of his 15 homes. And he's sitting at his house. And he has behind him clearly he doesn't want everyone to see how Richie is or something.

So it's all like the fake green screen where it's just nothing. And basically every question is just for Shod Khan. And Trent is just sitting there. It was extremely awkward. And I watched it for like 10 minutes. I'm like, this is. They're just asking him the same question over.

and over and over. Why are you keeping Trent Balkey? Why are you keeping Trent Balke? Why did you fire the coach and keep the GM? And I missed this question, but I saw it go viral yesterday. Is someone asked Shod that if you hire a coach and that coach is the guy you want, but the thing he wants is for Balkee to be gone, what would you do? And Shad was like, yeah, we'd probably have to listen to him. So he eventually said, like, if we hire a guy that doesn't want Trent, yeah, and fire Trent. It was just, and Trent's just staring. And Trent's just staring. there into the Zoom, I think it is very, very difficult to make these weird marriages happen. And sometimes you just get a GM who is looking for a coach, right? Like, I'm just trying to hire a coach and have a coaching relationship with the guy. Right? That's what we thought last year when Ray and Carthin hired Brian Callahan. Year later, he's fired.

And now they're going to be in this weird spot. But it's like, if I'm a coach like Ben Johnson and I get hired to Ryan Carthin, polls and I don't know the guy. And everyone in the city is asking for him to be fired. And it's like, is this a healthy way to go? And I just came from a team, organizationally, that believed in building the line of scrimmage. And this guy drafted a wide receiver over offensive linemen.

What if philosophically we don't even view football the same? But it's the Bears. I like Caleb. And I want this job. Well, my question would be if I'm a moment. McCasky, or I guess Kevin Warren, is like, well, do you have a personnel guy? And if you do, who is it? Like, part of it is, I don't want to work with this guy, but I got to have my own guy.

So are you bringing someone to the table? Or are you just like, I'm not comfortable doing this? Because all reports are, the Jags job's enticing. I kind of call bullshit. It's enticing. I don't even, it's a good job. Not for my vantage point. But it's really negative.

when you got to factor in bulky. So it's like Shod's already acknowledged that if you bring someone else to the table, I'll listen. So if I'm Ben Johnson, am I better off just going to Jacksonville where I could bring my own guy and get bulky fired where the bears are going to force pulls on to me? But again, all this stuff's job preservation.

Most people listening right now, if you've worked in some sort of corporate office setting, you have worked around a ton of people. And money's all relative. Ryan Paul's making millions of dollars. You've probably worked around people that made 50 grand, 100 grand, 200 grand, whatever, to do the same shit.

What do I have to do so I don't get fired? It's actually less about how do we win. And I'm not even saying that this is, that story might be true, might not be. But if I'm Ryan Poles, and I know that I hire somebody, or if I'm going to hire the best coach possible, and I've already got

when that that guy doesn't want to work with me well why would I want to hire that guy when I'm going to lose my job then I if I'm not if it's not my job I don't get a fuck about the bears I've already had to endure Kevin Warren and all this bullshit I've had to deal with it

and who knows you know did he want I ever Flucity not is hard to get to the bottom of these stories with the bears but I do think it's just a basic human reaction if you have a role and they tell you if you hire you got these 10 options. If you hire two of those 10 options, they're going to want you gone.

I think most of us, again, it's whether you're a GM or whether you're just a middle manager at a company, would probably avoid that person if it like 100% ended your job. It's one thing, it's like, hey, listen, you're going to have to learn to work with this guy. That's like a basic. We're all taught that at a young age and like school. Like learn to get along with this person. Be nicer to this person. You're going to have to have a group project with these three people.

It's another thing if like, we hire this guy, you are fired. Like, I don't think most people are signing up for that. I also think this time of year, it's like a wildfire. These stories just gain momentum. And it's like these big fires. It's like wind and trees and it just engulfs. And it's, you just can't see it. You don't even know what to believe.

And something like the Bears, this stuff is just, just encapsulates you. There's not a story that could come out right now about the Bear situation that we wouldn't believe. Even completely false rumors. If I just told, if you're a Bears fan and I said, I said tomorrow there's going to be a headline, Caleb Williams demands a trade. tomorrow there's a headline Ryan Poles has resigned tomorrow there's a

headline Mike Vrable reports he will take the Bears job but he won't work for Kevin Warren like all these things are believable and that's Ryan Poles does not want Ben Johnson because he'd want him fired and that's just kind of where we're at

I think with this coaching search in general I mean all these teams fall under that kind of umbrella since there is no salary cap in the NFL for coaches, could the Lions offer Ben Johnson head coach money to stay in Detroit? I'm sure a stock will keep rising with this team instead of trying to fix another franchise.

Just wait for the perfect fit. They could pay them more than Dan Campbell if they wanted. I think probably a decade ago, Jerry Jones did that with Jason Garrett. Remember Miami wanted to hire him, and at the time they were offering them like $5 million and Jerry Jones matched it and paid him $5 million to be the offensive coordinator. I think a couple years ago Josh McDaniels was making like $8 million to be the Patriot

offensive coordinator. You can do whatever you want. But part of Ben Johnson is if he takes a head coaching job, obviously the money factors in, but it's like, I want to be the boss. I want to be the guy at getting him. giving the team speech. I want to be the guy with the GM picking the player on the draft.

I want to be the guy picking the guys in free agency. Ben Johnson's making millions of dollars right now. I would imagine Ben Johnson over the last three years has made $10 million, $8 million. Like he's a multimillionaire today. And clearly set up, if you wanted to stay with Detroit, they'd probably pay him $8,9 million.

If he became a head coach, he could make 12 to $15,000. million dollars. So he is going to be flush with money. That is not going to be his problem. If he takes a head coaching job, he is just tired. You know, when you watch hard knocks and the coaching staffs in the meeting room and there's that long ass meeting table, you know, in like a, just in one of those, you know, they call it like a staff room in football, but a lot of these, A lot of companies, I'm sure you guys work for, have the same. And there's just a meeting or a room where you meet that is equipped to handle a lot of people. It's basically like a long, long dinner table, but for work.

And you know who sits at the head of the table? The head coach. You saw it in Hard Knocks. Who are the two guys at the head, the head of the table? They actually had kind of like a wider one. It was Ryan Poles and Iber Fluse. like part of the ambition to be the lead dog is to sit in that seat

and see what it is like can I get it done as the headman that's you know this is a very very ambitious profession coaching and I would say scouting executives you aspire to keep working up the ladder and

you know in coaching, the pinnacle of the job of a potential job is being a head coach. Obviously, it pays the most, but it also, like, you get the most responsibility. And you want to test your ability. Do you have it in the bag or not? And as we've seen, regardless how old you are, you've seen most people fail because it's really, really hard. And it, like, Ben Johnson knows scheme.

I don't have any question marks Like can Ben Johnson Handle developing a game plan Can he lead the team? Can he build a team? Can he handle Controversial shit? Like when a star-wide receiver

And his brother, I guess he's, you know, I don't know if I'd call James a star, but highly drafted receiver and his brother get pulled over With a couple loaded glocks About two in the morning even though he's a receiver and he's the offensive coordinator, you know who's problem that is not?

It's not Ben Johnson's. Dan Campbell deals with that. You know when Jameson Williams throws the ball at the referee, or the opposing player and the referee standing right there, and they pull him out of the game and Antoine Randallel and he starts screaming at each other? You know his problem that is not? Ben Johnson's.

Campbell deals with that. And that's what's so hard about being a coach. Think of the shit that like Andy Reed and Bill Belichick for the last Tomlin and Harbaugh, for the last 20 plus years those guys have had to deal with. Separate from football. I'm talking DUIs. I'm talking bad injuries. I'm talking, I saw it this year with the 49ers.

Tarvarious Ward's one-year-old daughter just died. Trent Williams' wife miscarried both twins. Ricky Pearsall got shot type stuff honestly even in most industries you don't have to deal with it's hard you're dealing with young people with a ton of money public facing

you know individuals it's a challenge so I it's why I'm always hesitant I'm always hesitant with draft picks last year with the quarterbacks everyone's like Caleb can't miss there's no such thing as can't miss

it does not exist it never has hasn't, never will. I was texting with a friend that works in the league today, and we were, we were texting about Rand Carthin, and he had a good lie. He said, drafting, hiring a general manager, hiring a podcaster, no matter what it is. Human selection is very difficult and imperfect. It's why the draft will always have a huge bust rate. You're dealing with human beings.

it's why hiring head coaches will always have a huge bus rate. It's why people that just hire whatever company you work for that hire people. Like, there's a lot of turnover in most jobs. In most jobs I was, industries I worked in, in radio, in football, hell, in podcasting, I've seen people come and go from podcasting. There is no direct correlation. If you do this, this and that, it's going to 100% work. unlike if I just acquire, you know, a company and I just see your books,

I got a pretty good idea if we just keep doing this, we're going to keep making money. But when you hire an individual, whether it's a player to play a position, whether it's a coach, to be a head coach, a coordinator, whether it's a GM from being an assistant GM, you have absolutely no clue. You can accumulate the most information possible and try to, I would say, like, mitigate the percentage chances of failure, but when they hired Joe Shane and Brian Dable, you would have been like, I don't know if the resume could get that much better. Brian Dable had better at Belichick, then he left to go work for Sabin,

then he went a non-Belichick Sabin guy and just went to work for Sean McDermott when they drafted Josh Allen. and for years just started at the bottom turned him into a star or what was part of it Colin plays obviously Josh gets credit to it's like he'd work for Belichick understands that

work for Sabin understands that and then just goes completely off and goes work for an Andy Reid guy and starts kicking ass and I'm pretty sure Joe Shane what his background was before Buffalo

I'm pretty sure he worked for Carolina and worked for Miami so Shane's resume is not quite as good his dayball, but that was his guy. And you put them together and it's been a complete failure. But how could anyone, when those two guys were hired, I'm thinking like, that's a pretty good hire?

You watched Joe Shane, looks the part, skinny, good head of hair, articulate, speaks well in front of a podium. And a couple years later, you're watching Hard Knocks. You're like, oh my God, this is the biggest disaster I've ever seen. I watched those guys interact. I'm like, this is not going to work. They got no fucking clue what they were doing. But how would you have thought that?

when they hired him. This guy's been an executive in the league forever. This guy's worked for the best and the brightest. And now just coached one of the biggest projects in the history of the league into start him. Yeah, I probably would have hired him too. Huge fan from Montana.

Question for the mailbag. Football's my life and I'm a Titans fan. So my life sucks. As they just fired the GM, garbage franchise. Do you think it's possible that coach is also in trouble because as soon as they got the number one pick,

they decided to get the temperature read on prime. Feels like they just do crazy shit and hope it works. Yeah, man, I think there are some elements to like the Jets and the Raiders. You just don't really know what you're doing. And you just kind of keep your fingers crossed. You make these hires and you just hope and pray. And, you know, Belichick, before he took the North Carolina job and he was doing all the media.

He used to use the saying when he described Woody Johnson, ready fire aim. That's what a lot of these franchises feel like they're doing. A lot of ready fire aim. And I think the Titans I mean, if they hired Dion

would be pretty nuts. And Chador. I also think it's one thing Dion Shador in the Big 12. that would have a chance. Like, it was really cool. As someone, and I've said this over and over,

like I'm sappy when it comes to father-son moments. And that final visual of those two guys, Shiloh, too, like, listen, someone that lost their dad, that's all fucking awesome. As someone that wants to have children here relatively soon, it's a powerful relationship. And to get to coach your son in college and then have success. I would say the chances if they just got the band back together with the Titans,

that it would go well. I think that'd be pretty challenging, but who knows? Maybe I'm just, I doubted them in Colorado and it worked. I would say I haven't read any rumors that, like, Dion's going to go to the Titans, but at this point in time, when it comes to Tennessee, how could you, I would imagine everything's on the table? Started listening this offseason. Seahawks fan, I'm curious about your final grade take on McDonald.

You've spoken highly of them this season, and I mostly agree. However, I'm sitting here watching this meaningless week 18 game as the second string Rams are more or less having their way with the Hawks defense. As I typed this, the Rams just scored and went for two to tie the game in the third quarter. I may be spoiled by the LLB days, but I expect more from this team, and I've seen way too much over the season to be excited for our future with Mike. I'm hopeful but not excited. Side note, Casey's second string is getting blanketed by Denver.

Isn't that closer to what this highly rated defense team should be doing as well? The difference though is Denver had something to play for. Denver was playing to get into the playoffs. You guys were eliminated last weekend. so we talk about human beings. If I'm a human being on Seattle, this game means nothing. No one will ever discuss.

Remember that 10th win you guys had? Or remember the year that you didn't beat the Rams and you won the nine games? Once you missed the playoffs and your season was where you were at, you were whatever, nine and seven going into that game, the game honestly could not have meant any less. it was no different than all the teams that had absolutely nothing to play for with shitty records.

And you're playing their backups. So put yourself in one of those players situation. Your season, you battled, you screwed up a couple weeks ago, cost you the playoffs, but you've had a solid season. You get eliminated from the playoffs. And then Sean McVeigh, like Monday goes, we are punting on this game. So if you're a player, especially a young player, who's going to be on the team next year.

Do you think you gave the same effort on Wednesday, Thursday, and Friday? As you did a month ago when your season was really alive? It probably had a little substitute teacher-type feel to it. It probably had a little like, I'm not going to be as focused as much. I might leave

the office a little early. Basically winter break starting. So I don't judge him on the Rams game at all. You went 10 and 7, your quarterback's Gino Smith. The defense is a lot better. He fired the offensive coordinator.

It would be interesting to see who he hires. So I would say I would be bullish on Mike McDonald moving forward. What do you think of Josh McDaniels as the offensive coordinator for the Bears if Rable or Flores are hired as the head coach? The idea being that if it works out, there is little chance that Josh would leave to become a head coach, given that he has done so poorly in the past. There's zero chance.

Nobody, at least in the pros, maybe college, I wouldn't in college, but I'm just saying the NFL, nobody's hiring Josh McDaniels. He's had two jobs, he did not make it to a year two and either. And two desperate teams, they both ran him out of town. One of the great con jobs in recent memory, the Josh McDaniels PR team, a couple years before he got the Raider job. I bought it. Hook, line, and sinker.

I'm like, this guy, change man. He looked in the mirror. He started writing a journal of positive thoughts. I remember reading like a Dan Pompeii article. I'm like, God, this is kind of got me. I'm like, Josh, we've been there, man. Sometimes he's got to look in the mirror and make a change. Then it turns out he did not change.

I've seen a lot of rumors that Vrable would make. McDaniel's, his offensive coordinator. I can't speak to those two relationship. Same with Flores, obviously and Josh work together for a long time. I don't know. I would say Josh, beside, I've seen him do some hits with Colin, has been pretty off the grid. So his work as an offensive coordinator was pretty good.

Now, granted, you know one thing I was thinking, it actually crossed my mind probably sometime in the last week. even if Josh changed, like became a better guy, maybe humility as he got older, wasn't as cocky or whatever, in theory, he could coach Tom Brady really hard. So he coached Tom Brady, which meant he could coach everyone else on the offense, like it was 1968, 1975. He could be, and listen, the offense can be, Like, you go to a Niners practice, Kyle Shanahan isn't writing Purdy Debo in Trent Williams.

I'm not saying he doesn't coach them, but it's like he's, he picks his spots. Sean McVeigh. I'm not saying these guys aren't hard on people, but you treat different people different ways. That is not the way New England operated. Tom Brady was the tip of the spear, and he got yelled at just as loudly, if not harder than other guys. It was intense. well most places no one has Tom Brady

so you get to these other places and it just overwhelms guys and that's where Vrable people use Vrable as being a Belichick guy Vrable just played for Belichick Vrable coach for Urban Meyer and Bill O'Brien

Mike Vrable did not coach for him he was not going to coaching meetings he was not game planning Monday and Tuesday with the staff that's when he was a player. So I think Mike Vrable got the best of both worlds. He saw what it takes like the intensity of practice,

but then he saw other stuff as a coach. Well, Josh, I mean, let's face it, the majority of what he knows as a coach is underbill. And he's kind of proven that the only way can coach is that way. Now, it's a little easier to do that when Mike Frable is your head coach. The thing with Flores, and I think there's been, you know, could Flores because he's buddy with Ryan Poles. It's well documented,

which I thought kind of funny, how mean Flores was to Tua. And I think it stems from Flores did not think Tua could play. Which, listen, Flores was wrong. It's not like Tua's great, but Tua's definitely way better than Flores thought. But Flores was a dick to him and the staff. Can you imagine?

I've seen some funny memes. Can you imagine Flores to Caleb? One thing with Tua is like Tua played for Sabin. One thing I respect about Tua, like Tua's fucking mentally tough. Might not be good enough, but no one questions Tua's like mental

capabilities of like handling some shit. I think that's a pretty big question mark with Caleb. And for most of Caleb's life, like everyone's been on their knees giving them a reach around. You play for Sabin. Like, it was an intense environment for Tua. And Tua handed a blind floor as in like, I would say handled it relatively well.

Caleb would never have experienced anything like Brian Flores. I don't think that would work. I don't see how Brian Flores could hold it in either. It would be difficult. That feels like a bad marriage. That feels like a marriage. I don't know. I don't have a hard.

I don't think Brian Flores and, and Caleb. I just don't think Brian Flores could be nice to him. I don't think he'd be able to look at him after what he just

witnessed on film and the way Caleb kind of carries himself. It's like, Caleb, your shit don't stink anymore, buddy. Half the people

did talk about football calling you a bust. Like, let's take a deep breath here. Let's relax. Flores come in fucking like a drill instructor. He'd be in that guy

shit 24-7. Caleb might quit. He's like, I'm out. I'm just, I'm rich, N-I-L. I'm done with this. I can see Caleb demanded a trade before like training camp.

Okay, we'll get out of here on that. And actually, that'd be awesome. I would pay to see that. That'd be an awesome hard knocks. Even though they were just on hard knocks, so you wouldn't get them again. It would be Flores and Caleb Williams. Sign me up.

Adios. Talk to you guys soon. The volume. Hey guys, it's us. The Jonas Brothers. I'm Joe. I'm Kevin. And I'm Nick. Guess what?

We created our own podcast called Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. We get to ask other people questions because we're sick and tired of being asked questions. Well, sick and tired is a strong way to put it, but, you know. Tired and sick.

Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. on Humor Me with Robert Smygel and Friends, me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, S&L's Mikey Day

and head writer Streeter Seidel help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Tolodano. It's our favorite time of the year on our podcast point game, the playoffs. We're digging into the biggest surprises of the season. And I'm looking back on some of my greatest playoff moments. If we didn't talk ever again, I was crying.

You just understood. That's how personal it got. Wow. Then after that game seven, Mark keep coming to you. He's like, you know, I love you, dog. You know, it's all love. This was just playoffs. This was just basketball.

So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And here's Heather with the weather. Well, it's beautiful out there, sunny and 75, almost a little chilly in the shade. Now, let's get a read on the inside of your car. It is hot. You've only been parked a short time, and it's already 99 degrees in there. Let's not leave children in the back seat while running errands. It only takes a few minutes for their body temperatures to rise, and that could be fatal.

Cars get hot, fast, and can be deadly. Never leave a child in a car. A message from Nitsai and the ad council. Therapy is fantastic. But once again, it does not have a monopoly on healing. That's why I create the resources and that's why I create the community because I really just want you to have more access. On the podcast, Cultivating HerSpace, Dr. Dom and Terry Lomax create a space

where black women can show up fully and be heard. It's tough because we're suppressing our emotions and so many of us are like high achieving individuals. Listen to cultivating her space on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human