The Herd with Colin Cowherd - 3 & Out - Reaction to Aaron Rodgers & Steelers DOMINATING Tua & Dolphins on MNF

Episode Date: December 16, 2025

Former NFL scout John Middlekauff is reacting LIVE immediately following the Week 15 Monday Night Football matchup between Tua Tagovailoa and the Miami Dolphins vs. Aaron Rodgers and Pittsburgh Steelers. John kicks off talking about Miami Dolphins QB Tua Tagovailoa's inability to play in cold weather games & why the Dolphins may need to get rid of Tua. John then talks about the Pittsburgh Steelers playoff picture after Dolphins win gives them a one game lead on the Baltimore Ravens leading the AFC North with 3 games to go. John talks about how 49ers will probably not go to the Super Bowl but why it could be Kyle Shanahan's best coaching year of his career with the absurd amount of injuries to his star players. John also talks about how the Packers look moving forward without star edge rusher Micah Parsons ahead of a high stakes NFC North road battle against the NFC first place Chicago Bears this upcoming Saturday night, and what this could mean for head coach Matt LaFleur's future with the team. Lastly, John dives into his DMs and discusses the trend of older quarterbacks starting in the NFL & why teams pull the trigger to start guys like Joe Flacco & Philip Rivers than players they don't trust like Anthony Richardson. 05:01 - Dolphins-Steelers 24:09 - 49ers head coach Kyle Shanahan 26:15 - Green Bay Packers 31:44 - Why are there so many old QBs starting in the NFL? 45:00- Mailbag Follow John on Twitter, Instagram and YouTube for the latest.  All lines provided by Hard Rock Bet Use promo code “3ANDOUT20” on https://nicokick.com/zone for 20% off at checkout! Check out Gametime - the fastest growing ticketing app in the US, and the official ticketing app of 3 & Out and GoLow -  for tickets to all of your favorite NFL, NBA, NHL, NCAA teams. Concert and comedy show tickets, too. Go to Gametime now to create an account, download the app and use code JOHN for $20 off your first purchase. #VolumeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Probably better than Tua and the Dolphins, who just kind of got worked by Rogers and the Steelers. Aaron had a good night. It looks freezing cold out there. It was 80 degrees today in Scottsdale. I think the low of 7 degrees in Pittsburgh. So I couldn't really relate sitting on my couch. But I respect Rogers, play with a broken hand, slinging that pill all over the place.

Two, on the other hand. They get there three weeks early. They go train in Alaska. It is not going to matter. I have seen enough. Micah Parsons injury is now confirmed, torn ACL. some thoughts on the Packers. I got an interesting direct message today

about older quarterbacks playing in the NFL, why we've been so quick to give up on young guys. We'll dive into that, as well as a little mailbag at John Middlecoff, at John Middlecoff is the Instagram. We will do a little mailbag today. And, yeah, that'll probably wrap us up for this Monday pod.

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J-O-H-N for $20 off. Tell them the GameTime app today. Last minute tickets. Lowest prices guaranteed. Let's dive into the game. You know, Aaron, the game kicked off, and it was freezing cold. You could tell when Scott Van Pelt and Kelsey and Ryan Clark and almost a bugger, but it wasn't bugger, it's Marcus Spears. We're on the field.

They looked like they were wearing 10 layers. You could see their breath saying it was like 15 to 16 degrees. one of our producers at the volume for the show, Noah, who lives in Pittsburgh, said it was seven degrees when they woke up this morning. It's freezing cold. And listen, I'm a West Coast guy. I like the heat. But I've lived in Philly. I lived in Kansas City, my senior year in college during the fall. Like, I understand Daniel Jeremiah who calls games on radio for the Chargers, I think either put out on Twitter or said something on radio that he thought the field in Kansas City felt like concrete.

These places in the Midwest, these places in the northeast in December, it's freezing cold. And then when you factor in if it's windy, you can't even imagine playing football in these conditions. Those of you that live in those areas, you understand it. But there is a big difference just going outside, getting in your car, going to work, or picking up your kids, then playing a football game. Like, it's pretty hard. And in the scouting community, there is a reason we talk about our.

strength and velocity. It doesn't matter as much if you're playing at SoFi Stadium. It doesn't matter as much if you're playing in San Francisco. It doesn't, Drew Brees did not have a great arm. Played his whole career in a dome. Jared Goff. I mean, decent arm benefits a lot from playing in Los Angeles and now playing in a dome in Detroit. Look at his record career outside. Not as great. Why? It's more difficult. And when you don't have a really strong arm to pierce the cold, to pierce the wind, it can be hard to function. Who's the greatest quarterback of all time? Tom Brady. What did he hang his hat on? Through a tight spiral. Through it hard. Pierce the wind. Most of the best quarterbacks, especially in the internet era, in that region of the country, had big arms. Ben Rothesberger,

Joe Flacco, Tom Brady, Eli Manning, Donovan McNabb. You need a big arm to get through the wind in the cold. But no one likes playing in this weather. Aaron Rogers spent what, 17, 18 years in Green Bay, where it is, there might not be, I mean, Detroit, maybe Minnesota would be colder, but they play in a dome. Maybe Buffalo, but Buffalo feels like it snows more often than it gets that frigid sleet. And in Green Bay, he's played in countless games in the low single digits. and he said the night he won his 59th game tonight in cold inclement conditions and he said it sucks and it got me thinking like no one likes doing it just like in life right i i read a study recently that most the majority of self-made multi-millionaires get up before six a m most human

beings i've met even successful ones like to sleep but it's kind of the price of admission if you want to be good at something, you kind of need to work hard and most people get up early. I mean, it kind of comes with the territory. As you get older, you don't want to be fat. What do you need to do? Eat healthy.

What does that usually mean? A lot of salads, a lot of vegetables. I like steak. I like pizza. I like ice cream as much as the next guy. But if I want to lose weight, I got to mix in some salads. It sucks, kind of what you got to do.

If you're going to be a good functional quarterback in the NFL, You have to play well outside in cold weather. No one likes doing it. Does that look fun? Of course not. Can you imagine how much it hurts when you get hit in those conditions? Running backs and wide receivers over the middle?

It's miserable. But you have to do it. There's no way to get around it. And when you play in the AFC, you look at Aaron Rogers, even at 42 years old and tonight he was brilliant. I mean, he looked fantastic. But I've said forever, Aaron Rogers at 42, the velocity in which he throws a ball,

as long as he doesn't have a major injury as he gets older once he retires from football, if you grabbed him at 62 years old, he is going to be able to sling that pill. Why? He just has a powerful arm. Dan Marino, same thing. If you just got Dan Marino to throw a 15-yard-out route, he would throw the ball with more velocity than Tua Tonga by Loa.

And, you know, the problem for Tua is he's from Hawaii, played at Alabama, great weather. not cold. Now he plays in Miami where I think they said the night it was 77 degrees today. I live in Scottsdale. It was 79 degrees today. When I took the dog to the grass this morning, about 745 in the morning, it was kind of hot. How can I relate to what I just witnessed in Pittsburgh? Newsflash, I can't. Here's the problem for Tua, despite playing eight or nine games depending on the season in Miami. He plays in a division with Buffalo, New England, and New York. He plays in a conference with the AFC North where they're all frigid temperatures coming

around early November, Kansas City, which might be the coldest place in the conference, and he's played there countless times in all these spots in cold weather, and he looked terrible. Meanwhile, a 42-year-old, now you can say, hey, John, he's one of the greatest quarterbacks in the history of the league. True. He's also 42 years old, and he has a broken. and left hand. And he had no trouble the night functioning at all. Let's be real. He has one wide

receiver on his team. Now, he has multiple tight ends that are pretty good. One of them is a 300-pound guy that probably could easily transition to right tackle and for my money could probably be a pro bowler. I mean, I text some people in the NFL. They're like, his physical attributes, he could make that transition. Listen, he's fun to watch, hard to tackle. My recommendation to darn out Washington would be just Google, spot track or any of the contract websites and click on the tight ends and their contracts and then click on the tackles and their contracts. So again, it's fun catching the ball, cool scoring touchdowns, awesome breaking tackles. Those guys make a lot more money.

And this game, if you want to break the NFL down, not for long, can end in any moment. You might as well cash in, but listen, to each their own. But tonight was a great display of you cannot function with one player and one guy even at 42 years old who is a far cry from his prime was completely unfazed by tonight. And obviously the Steelers,

listen, just on the game specifically, that was impressive because early on in that game Mike McDaniel brings these guys to the snow. Right, a couple days ago they practice outdoors. And it's fun. It makes for great highlights and trojews. Aikman and ESPN's running with it and I'm watching with my wife. We're smiling. It's, it's funny. It's, it's, uh, it's good television. It doesn't mean shit if your quarterback has a pea shooter arm.

And that's exactly what we watch tonight. And by all accounts, too is a good guy. He's not a very good player. And the final score, if you didn't watch a snap of the night, you could click on the box score, you could click on the final score, you could click on his numbers. You're like, God, he must have done pretty well. No, he was atrocious. One guy looked good. The other guy, for the majority of the game, until they were down 28 to 3,

they almost refused to call passes for. Why? Because they basically avoided him for the last couple weeks. And when you draft people high, I think we've learned a couple lessons in recent years, really over the course of the last decade. Stop drafting 5-9, 510, 5-11 quarterbacks, top of the first round.

You're bound to get fired doing that. This is a big man sport. You don't need to be 6-6, but it's going to be very difficult to play quarterback at a high level if you're under 6 feet. Because all your offensive linemen are 6-3 to 6-6. Just do basic math. You can't see. It's been a huge problem for a lot of quarterbacks. Hell, it was just on display in the NFC South with Tyler Shuck making more big plays down the stretch than a little Bryce Young.

Why? Because Bryce Young's 5' 9. Tyler Shuck's like six foot five and I just think tonight you watch his arm is just not functional in the cold and we have enough evidence now this is not going to change

and the dolphins as a team like through two quarters right until the end of the half it looked like is there much of a difference from the physicality of the Dolphins defense and the physicality of the Steelers defense and the answer was no the dolphins were actually playing really well I was like, I'm really impressed.

They're showing some heart. Even Troy Aikman was like, these guys have not quit. He's like, hell yeah, they have not. Mike has done a, you know, deserves credit for keeping his team fighting and came to this situation in the cold weather where historically the franchise well before he got there never had a shot, which I've always understood.

Like, I completely understand as human beings. If you're in L.A., if you're in Northern California, if you're in Arizona, if you're in Miami, And then you just go to Kansas City in late December. Like, there's no practice that can get you ready at home for that. It doesn't exist. It's way easier to go from the cold to the warm than the warm to the cold. But there are simple things.

Like, if your arm is weak, it is not, like Matt Stafford now plays in Los Angeles, right? Last year in the playoffs, where was he, Philly in a cold weather game? He had no trouble. Why? He has a massive arm. He throws 98 miles an hour. He's unfazed by the way. weather, even though all of his career, either in Detroit, in a dome, or now in L.A., in a dome,

it doesn't impact the majority of his games. But his skill set, if he would have been drafted once upon a time by the Ravens, by the Steelers, by the Chiefs, by the bills, he would have been fine. And Tua simply is not. Just like a lot of other quarterbacks that have average to blow average arms, they can't function in these moments. Meanwhile, you got Aaron Rogers doing this with his eyes closed. He'd be able to throw in this weather, even as he said, I don't like this. I'm from California. I live in Malibu in the offseason. I like the warmth. Most humans do. But tonight is, my overall takeaway was, like, I didn't necessarily, like, have any different thoughts on the Steelers. Like, I don't think they're going anywhere. I hope T.J. Watt,

in this dry needling, I'm glad I didn't kill him or anything. Thank God that they got him to the hospital, you know, fast enough. And hopefully he can come back and their defense can be strong. but if I was a betting man, I would say they're won and done in the playoffs. Now, potentially they could draw someone like the Chargers who are missing a bunch of offensive linemen and maybe they have a chance, you know, to win that game. But like, if they play the Bills, if they play the Houston Texans, I do not think they're winning those games. Chargers is a game they could win, though, you know, Jim Harbaugh, Jesse Minter, Justin Herbert, like, I think they have a coaching and quarterback advantage.

Now, both quarterbacks have broken left hands. Maybe I just give it the slight edge to Herbert and the youth and his ability to, you know, run. I mean, Rogers can still move around a little bit, but he's not scrambling much. And yeah, so like I view the Steelers the same. They've kind of righted the ship over the last couple weeks, beating the Ravens, winning the night. They have another big game this week against the Lions. I think they are going to be rooting heavily for the Patriots this week to take down the Ravens. And, you know, I think it's all going to come down to just based on the simple math, unless the Ravens lose the next two weeks and the Steelers win the next two weeks, then, you know, week 18 won't matter.

But I think if we're all betting, man, that that game, week 18 will be winner, wins the division and is the four seed. And, you know, unless Lamar can flip it back to two years ago, I think most people are going to bet against those two teams, whoever wins it in the first round. And right now I give a slight edge to the Steelers. But especially because that games in Pittsburgh and felt like their fans, again, I never get mad at fans. You know, when they booed Tomlin, a chanted fire Tomlin. When you look crappy, it's like, they're booing. Jalen Hurts and the Eagles, they're the defending champs. It's like, yeah, they just went three and out 17 straight times.

What were they supposed to do? Cheer, beg him some cookies? Like, what are we talking about here? But I just think that the dolphins don't have a choice. And I understand he still got guaranteed money on his contract next year. and that contract at the time was insane. It's aged even worse. I thought the same thing about Kyler Murray.

I mean, those two contracts will go down. Obviously, the result and the ending of Russell Wilson, it was an awful contract. But I did understand them doing it. Like, if I was in Denver shoes, I would have done everything they did to acquire Russell Wilson. Most people would have, right? But when it came to Tua and when it came to Kyler Murray, those are two contracts like, are you guys sure? You guys don't need to do this right now. You can play it out another year. And for Tua, that's one they clearly regret. And listen, I don't say this with any joy. I really don't care. But I would cut him this offseason. You know, obviously you would love to trade him. I think he's a borderline untradable player. You never say never because we have seen guys like, oh, what are they get? They're not going to be able to get rid of this guy. And sometimes they can. Maybe you have to attach a pick. maybe like two and a third just to unload them for like a sixth.

But you can't roll this guy back because the team actually turned around when they started playing defense and running the ball and avoiding having him throw. He'd be like, well, Johnny, threw a couple touchdowns in the fourth quarter. It's like, yeah, watch the first three quarters of the game. It was 283 for a reason. And he was a big part of it because they couldn't, they can't function in the passing game. Because one, he can't scramble. That's the other thing.

You know, for this little guy with a piece shooter arm, he's got no athletic ability. right. Aaron Rogers at the same age as Tua, even regardless that he had a great arm, could really move and keep plays alive, like was a fantastic athlete. Tua brings none of that to the table. I think sometimes you watch Tua like when he just moves a couple steps, you think, oh, there's something. No, he's closer to like Jared Duff than he is some of these mobile quarterbacks. That's a crazy part. Like, I mean, it's, listen, it's easy to play Monday morning quarterback. And once we have the results and no different. information, but to think that once upon a time, and in fairness, I think Tom Telesco,

whose buddies with everyone in the media, has told every, like, he would have taken Tua as well, but Tua went to pick above Justin Herbert. Think about that. Guy, six foot six, huge arm, man can run. High character guy, accurate passer. I mean, that's, that's, that's, that's an all-timer. But Miami made this election. A bunch of people have lost their job since, and Mike is still kind of surviving because he's really good at scheming the run. But I think this offseason, if they can't trade him, they got to cut them. It's just time to cut bait and move on. Sometimes you've got to make a tough decision.

And, you know, listen, the Steelers are going to be in a similar situation this offseason. Like, is Rogers coming back? Maybe he will if Tomlin's coming back and try to run it back, even though I don't think much would change with their team. Maybe they could, you know, invest in some more weapons. but listen, you got quarterback big picture question marks. That's never a great place to be. Now, luckily for the Steelers, they can function and win with their guy right now, right?

Even though he's old and not nearly as good as he once was, he still got some bullets in that chamber. And he was letting him fly tonight. He made some beautiful passes. The touchdown to D.K. Was just a great ball between a couple defenders, and obviously D.K. did the rest, just a freak show. But they did a really good job coaching tonight.

Because if you stopped the run for Miami, they got no shot to beat you with the pass. And Gainwell had some big plays tonight. Jalen Warren, who was sick. I think a couple days ago, it came up on the injury report, was running hard. Obviously, D.K. and the tight ends were making plays. But, like, you should beat Miami, right? I mean, at the end of, two months ago, most people thought they were the worst team in the league. Now, clearly they're not.

Listen, Mike McDaniel, people make fun of them. because he's kind of dorky-looking. He knows what he's doing. I'll promise you that. You don't work for a decade with guys like McVeigh, Kyle, the LaFleur brothers. Like, Mike really knows what he's doing. I've talked to Kyle Ushcheck about it, George Kittle about him, back when I used to interview those guys, when I lived in the Bay Area.

Like, Mike McDaniel was extremely well thought of inside the 49er locker room from a player standpoint. Like, he's really bright when it comes to the run game. and you just, listen, he got by for a couple years when he had peak Tyree Kill, but you just, you can't function with this guy. And that was on full display tonight. So congrats to the Steelers who definitely control their own destiny. And Mike Tomlin just refuses to have a losing record. A couple other things before we get out of here.

You know, you get a lot of credit. Speaking of Aaron Rogers, right? I have, listen, for me, he's one of the best players I've ever watched any sport. But this year, when he broke his hand to come back like he did, and even the night, there were a couple of moments where he's kind of grimacing. It's like, there is no one can argue. You see this with rivers. Like, no one ever disputes.

And as a football player, like, there are some industries. Like, you want to be known as like so-and-so. If you work in finance, like, this guy's got balls. This guy is not afraid to take some big swings. Right. If you're a football player, I think most people want to be known as a couple things, obviously a winner or a winning player. and like that was a tough

SOB. That was the guy I could go to war with. And anytime you get that label as a player, like that goes with you for a long way. And clearly Rogers, you watch him this year. Like no one, not that anyone ever did. But like at 42, he does not need to be doing this to rush back with the broken hands. Like, that's pretty badass.

I would say the same thing about Herbert. And the difference is like Herbert's because of his team and because he's younger, is running a lot more. This dude's stiff-arming guys with a cast on his left hand. Two weeks ago against the Eagles, he's diving head first. This is insane. You do not need to do this. But proving your toughness to your teammates and your coaches is a big part of football.

And it gives you a lot of extra credit the way we discuss and talk about you as a player, your career, your legacy. I think the same thing goes for coaches, right? Let's use Kyle Shanahan as an example. More than likely, the 49ers are not going to make the Super Bowl. So just based on the results of a season, this will not be his most successful season as a 49ers coach. He's made the Super Bowl multiple times, 2019 and 2023. Hell, there's a decent chance that the 49ers, if they're the six seed, they could lose in the first round of the Eagles. Like, that's not inconceivable, right?

because the guys they're playing with. But to me, this is one, and you can be like, well, John, they have, their schedule hasn't been as hard as some previous years. I'm like, yeah, they've played some easy teams. But they've also played without guys making $35 million or star pass rusher. Their first round pick from Georgia, their Hall of Fame middle linebacker, their defense is a bunch of guys that most casual NFL fans couldn't point out of the lineup. they had to win countless games this season with Michael McCorkle Jones, aka Mac Jones.

If I would have told you at the beginning of the season, Mac Jones is going to start about half the games for the 49ers. What's going to happen? You're like, you're screwed. Season's over. Oh yeah, Brandon Ayyuk is basically going to get kicked off the team. Debo gets traded, so they're playing with Joanne Jennings, who then gets injured. They have to be Kendrick Bourner, who gets cut from the Patriots, and DeMarcus Robinson, who suspended the first couple games because of a Dewey. Oh yeah, and they throw it for like 400 yards against the Rams on the road on a short week and beat him with Mack Jones thrown to those guys.

George Kittles also injured. He's on short-term I-R because he pulled his hamstring. You get a lot of credit for doing that as a coach. Why? Because it's really difficult. Now, obviously the best coaches, if you give them the best teams, are going to be better than most people. It's why when you give McVeigh or Kyle or Andy or Sean Payton or Vrable loaded teams, they're typically going to be locks for the playoffs.

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If you are someone you know has a gambling problem and wants help, call 1-800-9 with it. Gambling problem, call 1-800-gambler. Arizona, Colorado, Illinois, New Jersey, Ohio, Tennessee, Virginia. Hey, it's us, the Jonas brothers. And guess what? We have some big news. What's the news, next? Huge news.

We created our own podcast called, Hey, Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide. range of podcasts throughout there. But this one's extra special.

So how do we actually come up with a name, Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it. We were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band before Jonas Brothers. This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes. I have a very different memory of this.

We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast, where people could call in and say, Hey Jonas, and then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. What's up, fam?

It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano, and our podcast Point Game is about defining the odds. Like LeBron heading into the playoffs without Luca and Austin Reed. And finding ways to win no matter what. He's the smartest player to ever. play the game. His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before. And he knows. Without Luca and Austin Reeves, I got to manipulate the game. We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the playoffs. I think Joker's going to be exhausted this series because when they

don't have Rudy in the lineup, he has to really guard guys like Nas Reid. He has to guard Julius Randall. And then he has to give us everything he gives us on the night-to-night bases on offense. And when IT's friends stop by, like Quentin Richardson, we dive into some playoff history too. Steve Nash would get that thing. That man, hell get to fly.

He run up the court licking his fingers why he got the ball like, after you go through a training camp with that Isaiah, you figure it out real quick.

Get your ass up and down the court and you're going to get the ball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Jared Adano.

You might know me as that loud guy who yells out, help on the internet. Help! Somebody! Please! But there's so much much more to me than that. I'm an actor. I'm a comedian, and recently, I've become quite the helper

myself. And on my new podcast, Hope from a Hypocrite, I'll be changing lives, helping people in need with my sage advice and thoughtful solutions. Sike, I'm a comedian. I'm not qualified to give good advice. Join me and my comedian friends as we riff, rant, recommend some of the most legally dubious advice known to man. If I'm calling you, even if you're on your phone, Let it ring twice. One ring is too scary. Cream of chicken suit. Hey, cream a chicken suit.

This is Help from a Hypocrite, the worst advice from the dumbest people you know. Listen to Help from Hypocrite as part of the Mike Coutura podcast network available on the I-Hart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If you're watching the latest season of the Real Housewives of Atlanta, you already know there's a lot to break down. Georgia accusing Kelly of sleeping with a merry man.

They holding Kay Michelle back from fighting Drew. Pinky has financial issues. I like the bougie style of Housewives show. I think it looks like it's going to be interesting. On the podcast, Reality with the King, I, Carlos King, recap the biggest moments from your favorite reality shows, including the Real Housewives franchise, the drama, the alliances, and the team everybody's talking about.

As an executive producer in reality television, I'm not just watching it. I understand the game. As somebody who creates shows, I'll even say this. At the end of the day, when people are at home, they want entertainment. To hear this and more, listen to Reality with the King on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. The story I've told myself about love or relationships can then shape my behavior, and that can lead me to sabotage the possibility.

of connection. This Mental Health Awareness Month, tune into the podcast deeply well with Debbie Brown and explore the journey of healing, self-discovery, and returning to yourself. We explore higher consciousness, emotional well-being, and the practices that help you find clarity,

peace, and self-mastery in a world that can feel overwhelming. The world is becoming lonelier. We're not becoming more social and connected. We're becoming more individualized, but we actually meet people in connection. If you've been searching for a soft place to land while doing the work to become whole,

this podcast is for you to hear more. Listen to deeply well with Debbie Brown from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. The thing I respect the most about the Packers is just over the course of my life, how consistent they've been.

And they've had one message basically starting with Homegrown and Ron. wolf through the group they have now. What happened on Sunday was pretty bad, right? I mean, there's no way around it. Just if you're a fan of the NFL. If you're people like me that aren't even a fan of the Packers but had some money on them to make deep runs, it's probably over.

And it would be a little stunning now if they make the Super Bowl, right? Hell, it's going to be hard for them to win the division. I mean, I would imagine, as this week goes, most people, pundits, fans, people that watch football, be like, I bet the Bears beat him at home. And this is when you kind of can up your stock as a coach. And LaFleur, who came into this season, kind of on a prove it year for the guy, right? The new president said so. Like, yeah, we're not extending the GM or the coach.

GM's not going anywhere. But I do think that Matt LaFleur over the course of these next three games and even in the playoffs, like his expectations aren't Super Bowl or bust anymore. but I would say if he's able to win the division, hell, make it to the playoffs and win a playoff game, I think a lot of people would give you a lot of credit. Jeff Halfley, their defensive coordinator, who let's just say there are six job openings this offseason,

will probably interview for five of them. Well, if your defense losing Micah Parsons over the next couple weeks doesn't skip a beat looks really good, and in that playoff game, maybe you're the seven-seat or six-seat or who-n't, knows how this thing breaks. You don't host a playoff game. You got to go on the road. And your defense dominates and you guys win a playoff game and you're a big reason for it. I think that only ups your stock. So like a player who is injured, we give a lot of extra credit to. It's no different with coaches. Part of the reason Andy Reid obviously had a lot of early

success with the Eagles. But one of the things that really turned him into a legend, you know, early on for being an offensive guru was like Donovan McNabb would get injured. And he would just take guys like Jay Feeley or Jeff Garcia late in his career and just like rattle off wins and still sneak into the playoffs and it didn't really matter. And I think LaFleur, who still has his quarterback, who still has some of his core guys on offensive defense, like they're not done. Like it's not over. Like if you are a really good coach and you're a guy that's expecting the Packers to give

you, you know, 12 to $15 million a year, a huge extension for the next five or six years, And if you're halfway a guy that thinks I can't miss defensive coordinator, because guess what? Most of these teams you're going to aren't going to have Rishon Gary and Michael Parsons. They're going to have bad players. That's why they're shitty. So I'm fascinated to see. I like these. I've watched a lot of Halfley press conferences over the last month.

A lot of you guys forward them to me. He's clearly a very, very impressive guy. There is no arguing that. And he's done an excellent job as a defensive coordinator for the Packers. but I think these two guys right now can kind of rally the troops as the offensive coordinator and the defensive coordinator, you know, obviously he's the head coach as well as the play caller. But I think a lot of people, and I'm guilty of this too, a Packers done season's over. That's not the way football works.

You might not just rattle off a bunch of victories and end up in the Super Bowl, but like you can still win 11 games, win the division, and win a playoff game, and get a lot of credit from your fan base and from your new president and from just internally people in your organization. So I think I don't blame LaFleur last night when he was interviewed in the postgame press conference when he looked like he saw a ghost, when he looked like his life was about to end. We all would have acted the same way.

But part of being the leader, part of being essentially the commander of chief of football team is like, you got to shake that frown, turn it upside down, you know, fucking put on a smile and figure shit, out and do it fast. And you play the bears on a short week, you don't have a choice. Because a lot of people are going to be watching this game on Saturday night, especially when you factor in the college football playoff games in the afternoon night are atrocious. I mean, we potentially like a 50-point blowout at night. So all the eyeballs are going to be

on you. And if you win that game, I think a lot of people all over the country, just fans of football would be very, very impressed. And it would go a long way to this potential world where you get a big extension this offseason because you would have earned it. That's what high-level coaching is when things don't go your way. You give me Peyton Manning. You give me Lawrence Taylor. You give me, you know, Ladani and Tomlinson, you give me Tony Gonzalez. You give me some loaded team.

I could coach that team. But that's not the NFL. This is not college football where the best teams all got the sweetest players. A lot of people got injuries. Hell, the year the Packers won it with Aaron Rogers in 2010. My first year with the Eagles when they beat us in the park. playoffs and rattled off a bunch of victories. All of a sudden they won the Super Bowl.

I think they had like 20 or something guys on injured reserve. They had a ton of guys hurt. Kind of put Mike McCarthy on the map and elevated his status to a completely different level in the NFL because of what he did that season with all the injuries. So I'm fascinated to watch the Packers and the more and more I think about it, I got to be pretty careful than not just count them out. And last but not least, I want to end on this because I got this DM from from Roger.

And I thought it was pretty interesting. For those of you watching, we'll maybe put it up here on the screen. Roger shot me this on Instagram and it said, why are there so many old quarterbacks starting in the NFL? Year after year, hundreds of college kids are drafted by NFL teams. And typically, the highly drafted QBs are projected to be stars because of their super athletic ability, yet year after year these talents

like Fields, Anthony Richardson and others, eventually get passed over for older players. Flacco was fun for a minute. Aaron Rogers can't take a hit. Philip Rivers is just the latest to get signed up the couch. Where did all the young talent go? And why are NFL front offices

perpetuating this trend? I've been thinking a lot about this because I think it's pretty easy. Anyone that follows Gruden on social media, or just obviously since when he used to do the ESPN quarterback camps, there was a video, I think it was last offseason, going into the draft. So it would have been like, you know, maybe March of this year. He had Jackson Dart in the FFCA,

the fired football coaches of America. And he did what he used to do on ESPN, where they kind of just, you know, talk football. And he had Jackson Dart give him the snap count from Ole Miss. that's where Jackson Dart played. for Lane Kiffin, who was just the number one coaching candidate in college football, and I would say widely considered currently

the top, if not the top two or three, offensive guy in the sport on Saturdays. And Gruden, who, the video of Vinnie Testaverty just went viral of him doing snap counts and getting guys to jump offside. It sounded a lot like football in the 70s, the 80s, the 90s, the 2000s. Then Jackson Dart did the snap count,

and it was a clap. And Gruden's like, well, what does it sound like when it's on two? And he gave him two claps. Because college football, which that's where the NFL gets their talent, is producing guys in offenses that is pretty simplistic. And a lot of the clapping, they look over to the sideline and get the play from the coach that tells them to run the play they're giving them because they've already looked at the defense. So all the manipulating on the field that, let's say, Aaron Rogers or Philip Rivers can and will do,

they have never been taught to do that. And historically, when I worked at Fresno State, one reason the NFL scouted our team so heavily and we produced so many guys in the NFL because we ran an NFL offense. We ran an offense that looked like every team in the NFL. Now, college back in the late 2000s and definitely the early 2010s,

everyone started spreading it out. Now, in the NFL team still spread it out. But their terminology, it is much more, complicated than what a lot of these offenses for Lincoln Riley that have a couple words as a play call. You have heard all these quarterbacks over the year, spit out these play calls, and they have like 15 to 20 words, and they're giving you multiple options at the line of scrimmage. And here's the other thing. Forever in college football, coaches, the profession from an assistant standpoint has always been very nomadic. But I bet if you went back in the 80s, the 90s, and even

the 2000s, a lot of the good programs had pretty consistent head coaches. And even as coordinators came and went, the scheme stayed pretty specific. So if you ran an NFL operation, like Pete Carroll at USC, or what Boise State was doing with Chris Peterson, or Pat Hill, or Bobby Bowden, or wherever, you just went around Nick Saven. It was a consistent message your entire career. Well, now the transfer portal exists. So these players are transatlantic. transferring all over the place. Coaches, because of this crazy money, the nomadic nature of them leaving jobs

to just go to other jobs that a lot of people think aren't even like a vertical leap, happens more and more. So guys' progress in college to learn complicated stuff doesn't really exist. And then the amount of stuff that they actually learn

because they're jumping ship from place to place, your knowledge actually isn't as vast. And then once you get to the NFL, while you spend a lot of time in the classroom, there are a lot of limitations on practice time. Because of the CBA that was passed back in 2011 or 2012, double days don't exist. The amount of time that you could wear pads in practice during the season

has been limited greatly. And if you break that, people on your team, union reps, will turn you in. So you can spend time in the classroom, but let's face it, the majority of human beings, especially in an industry like football, learn on the field. So even if I take information from the classroom, if I don't get the opportunity, as coaches would say, to rep it at practice, it's hard to improve. And I also think the money in the NFL has never been greater. So before coaches would get more time, partly because if you signed a four or five-year contract,

I would never fire you after two years because I wouldn't want to pay you to not work. Now, paying you to go away means nothing. I think someone reported this like Albert Breer that at an owner's meetings, maybe like two years ago or a year ago, Roger Goodell stood up in front of all the owners and gave the total of money

that they were paying coaches to not work. And it was like hundreds of millions of dollars. But to these guys, in this world of an NFL that's making billions upon billions of dollars, it actually wasn't that much money. Because teams do it all the time, because financially doesn't impact them at all. So I do think the turnover with coaching,

the nomadic nature now of players, and over the course of the last 10, 15 years, the expansion of the quote-unquote spread has, I would say, change the gap between the NFL and college more than ever. So these guys get to the pros. And I remember when Phil Savage used to run the senior boys, good friends of mine.

And what they always do at the beginning of the week is the coaches go to the quarterbacks, right? And you get quarterbacks from Oregon to smaller schools, you name it, all over the country. Raise your hand if you've ever been under center. Most guys don't raise their hand. And that includes high school football. So I think the gap of the training for which you have to be retrained once you get to the pros,

and then time isn't really on your side. You know, Colin has a theory, and I don't think he's totally wrong, is most guys, if you start as a rookie, you get to like your second year Thanksgiving. Teams have kind of made a decision. Whether we're going to keep wrong with you, you're going to be a franchise quarterback, or we're going to have to pivot. And we've seen in recent years that some guys with the physical abilities, you use Anthony Richardson, clearly he was just completely over his head.

And maybe one day, years from now, he'll figure it out. But he ain't going to figure it out for the Colts. And when he is able to come back, and I saw a report today that he's like, been cleared. And they can open the practice window. If he was physically ready and completely cleared today, they would 100% start Philip Rivers at 44 and 275 pounds over Anthony Richardson at 23 years old. Why? because they trust rivers upstairs.

And some of these guys, they don't learn anything in college because that's not really the way they're coached. And then they get to the pros and it becomes so mental and you have so much catching up to do, but you also have to improve physically and there's just not time. And we've seen recent examples of the Sam Darnolds and the Baker Mayfields and the Daniel Jones. You just kind of get lost in the shuffle.

And when you lose your confidence, I don't care whether you play football, whether you podcast, whether you sell insurance. When you lose your confidence, it can be tough to get it back as a younger person. And you have to spend time just building that confidence back up, let alone learning your craft.

So I think part of the thing that these older quarterbacks bring to the table is they can speak the same language as the coach. And whether we agree or disagree with that, coaches really value that. They always have and they always will. If I don't trust you out on the field, it's hard for me to play you, especially with our season on the line.

So you use Joe Flacco. Well, why did the Bengals trade for Joe Flack in the middle of the year? Because they were desperate to try to win games. And they thought he gave them a better chance some random young kid around the league. Why did they call Philip Rivers back? Because they think Philip Rivers gives them a better chance than Anthony Richardson.

They believe that, to their core. And clearly, most of these times, I don't hear anyone in the locker room bitching and moan about the decision. Because usually the players agree. So I just think times have changed dramatically. The development, there's not. not that much time to develop. And I think part of the blame on that comes on the players because back in 2011 they were adamant they needed more time off. They needed no double days. They didn't want to

practice. And the owners were glad to give it to them because they kept more money in their pocket. And the players fought for something that actually not only did not have financial value, but limited the upside of future players in the league. And I think over the course, it's like sometimes governments make decisions. It's like, well, our heart was in the right place. But yeah, it didn't work. So yeah, your heart was in the right place.

But your decision, the law you passed or the decision you made in some city ordinance was a complete failure. So fucking give yourself a thumbs up for having. your heart in the right place for saying we tried. This is a results-oriented business. And the decision that happened back two CBAs ago, I would say has had major, major ripple effects on the quarterback position when it comes to the development of young players. Hey, it's us, the Jonas Brothers. And guess what? We have some big news. What's the news, huge news? We created our own podcast called, Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it.

We just contributed to it. First people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts throughout there. But this one's extra special. So how do we actually come up with a name, Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it. Well, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band before Jonas Brothers.

This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast. We could call in and say, hey Jonas. And then I wrote down in my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys.

Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano, and our podcast Point Game is about defying the odds. Like LeBron heading into the playoffs without Luca and Austin Reed. And finding ways to win no matter what. He's the smartest player to ever play the game.

His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before. And he knows without Luca and Austin Reeves, I got to manipulate the game. We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the playoffs. I think Joker's going to be exhausted this series because when they don't have Rudy in the lineup, he has to really guard guys like Nas Reid. He has to guard Julius Randall.

And then he has to give us everything he gives us on the night-to-night basis on offense. And when IT's friends stop by like Quentin Richardson, we dive into some playoff history too. Steve Nash will get that thing. That man, hell get the flying. He running up the court, licking his fingers why he got the ball.

Like, after you go through a training camp with that, Isaiah, you figure it out real quick. Get your ass up and down the court, and you're going to get the ball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If you're watching the latest season of the Real Housewives of Atlanta,

you already know there's a lot to break down. She's accusing Kelly of sleeping with the merry men. They holding Kay Michelle back from fighting Drew. Pinky has financial issues. I like the bougie style of Housewives show. I think it looks like it's going to be interesting. On the podcast, Reality with the King, I, Carlos King, recap the biggest moments

from your favorite reality shows, including the Real Housewives franchise, the drama, the alliances, and the team everybody's talking about. As an executive producer in reality television, I'm not just watching it. I understand the game. As somebody who creates shows, I'll even say this. At the end of the day, when people are at home, they want entertainment.

To hear this and more, listen to Reality with the King on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. The story I've told myself about love or relationships can then shape my behavior, and that can lead me to sabotage the possibility of connection. Mental Health Awareness Month, tune into the podcast deeply well with Debbie Brown and explore the journey of healing, self-discovery, and returning to yourself. We explore higher consciousness, emotional well-being, and the practices that help you find clarity, peace, and self-mastery in a world that can feel overwhelming. The world is becoming lonelier. We're not becoming more social and connected. We're becoming more individualized, but we actually meet people in connection. If you've been searching for a soft place to land while doing the work to become whole, this podcast is for you to hear more.

Listen to deeply well with Debbie Brown from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Hey, I'm Jared Adano. You might know me as that loud guy who yells out, help on the internet. Help! Somebody! Please! But there's so much more to me than me. I'm an actor.

I'm a comedian. and recently I've become quite the helper myself. And on my new podcast, Hope from a Hypocrite, I'll be changing lives, helping people in need with my sage advice and thoughtful solutions. Sike, I'm a comedian. I'm not qualified to give good advice.

Join me and my comedian friends as we riff rant and recommend some of the most legally dubious advice known to man. If I'm calling you, even if you're on your phone, let it ring twice. One ring is too skinny. Carrie.

Cream of chicken suit. Hey, cream. Cream a chicken suit. This is Help from a Hypocrite, the worst advice from the dumbest people you know. Listen to Help from Hypocrite as part of the MyCultura podcast network

available on the IHartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. We're going to do a little Middilkoff mailbag. At John Middlecough, at John Middlecough, at John Middlecough, is the Instagram firing those DMs and get your questions answered on the show. Very, very easy.

to do. Again, it's just my Instagram account, DM's wide open, fire in them, and get your questions answered here. Like Tyler, question for the pod. See how easy this is? Is it in the realm of possibility to trade Chris Jones from Mack Jones and a third or fourth round pick?

Chiefs are obviously going to need a quarterback for at least half the season, if not the entire year. Mac won't resign after next year to be a backup again after he balled out in the games that he started for the Niners. And Chris Jones likely isn't going to get an extension from the Chiefs after this contract. Or is this the type move that the Chiefs just play who they've got and hope to hit on some

relatively higher draft picks? I don't hate where your mindset is. I do think the Chiefs are going to trade Chris Jones as offseason. I don't think the 49ers is a fit for a couple reasons. One, they prove last year that they desperately attempted. to get way younger. And they got rid of a bunch of veteran guys that were already their guys that they really liked.

I mean, every time you watch the defense play for Denver, I mean, Greenlaw is solid, but I mean, Hufunga looks incredible. And it was not easy to let those two guys go, right? Especially Greenlaw. I mean, they like flew to his house. But Chris Jones makes a ton of money, and his cap hit is massive. And these deals are complicated. I think the 49ers won, you know,

I think they would entertain Mac Jones offers this offseason, especially pretty, I get it was the Titans, but I mean, if he plays like that, I mean, you just, you're paying him a lot of money for a reason. You need to use these assets, but I think they will desperately try to get younger. And I just don't think they have the financial flexibility to take on a guy who's going to want an extension, an enormous money, who's an older player. I mean, they're already dealing with Bosa who makes a ton of money. He's coming off an injury. Fred's coming off an injury. So they just proved, right? Their first two draft picks in 24 were, I guess, it was 2025. You know, Mikel Williams, who hurt ACL and Collins,

the big defensive tackle from Texas. I think they'd just be more likely to just draft the defensive linemen in like the first round, a defensive tackle. You know, more of a pass rusher than a run stuffer like Collins. But I don't think Chris Jones would be an option for them. I actually think when you look at the Chiefs last year, they traded Joe Tunney to the Bears. I think Chris Jones would probably end up at a place

with a team that has a lot of financial flexibility with their quarterback. I think the commanders would make some sense. You know, the Atlanta Falcons look for a team with a rookie quarterback contract who can, who's going to be trying to win immediately and can handle maybe. And again, I have to check their cap space. But I don't think the Niners will be in business of trading for, an older veteran player who makes a ton of money and who's going to want a new contract.

But I like where your head's at. I think the 49ers would be more likely to trade Mack Jones. One, it would take a lot to get them, but I think they would need a second day pick. And they would just want to utilize that asset for a cheap guy that would be a starter, right? So if you get like, hey, some good team second round pick, I guess a good team probably wouldn't be likely to trade for them.

but I don't know I honestly haven't really thought about his destination that's probably more of an off-season idea I'm also hesitant to give him away I mean he's just such a great insurance policy for Purdy now I think you could also argue like well two of the last three years they've been in really good shape

Donald didn't have to play but like clearly they would have won games with Donald if they had to and they were forced this year and they won games with Mac Jones but we also saw last year like they it was a lot of like Dobbs and Kyle Allen and it's hard. It's not an easy game to play. So I personally would be inclined to keep him unless I was blown away. I mean, if you get like pick 40 or something, yeah.

In your opinion, who's the greatest tight end of all time? Kelsey may have the postseason stats, but these last couple years, he has been slowly falling off. I just want to bring up his stats the last two years because I actually think they look a lot better than the way people talk about him. He by no means has been as bad, I think, as people think. Because when you say fall off, he's going to end this year with 80 catches, probably 1,000 yards and 6-7 touchdowns.

And even last year, he had 97 catches for 823 yards. Now relative to what he once was, I hear what you're saying. I mean, he's not near the dominant force that he once was. I would say this, in my adult life, watching this, you know, in the last 20 plus years, 25 years. Because I think if you go back to like the 80s and 90s, I just don't feel as confident discussing those players. You know, obviously Shannon Sharp, you know,

an all-time great receiving tight end. Same with Tony Gonzalez. I think you almost have to put them in two categories. Right, like most running backs, to be a Hall of Fame running back, even if you're a pass catcher like Marshall Falk, no one disputed that Marshall Falk could just carry the offense between the tackles or outside the tackles, like carrying the ball.

Same thing with Lillard. Daniel Tomlinson, who is excellent catching the ball. Same thing with McCaffrey, right? But like Adrian Adrian Peterson, also Hall of Famer or will be, like catching wasn't his thing. Derek Henry, same thing. Like they are true belcow hand on the ball. I think with tight ends, there are literally two styles, right? Tony Gonzalez, who's a Hall of Famer, is, you had to have a blocking tight end on the roster. I forget his first name, something done back in the day with the Chiefs. Because Tony Gonzalez wasn't holding the point of attack on the edge to make sure that you could run sweeps and outside runs, right?

So, like, Kelsey is that same thing. And I think if you break it into past catching tight ends, Kelsey is right there, if not the greatest, with that group of great past catching tight ends. And then they're like more of your all-around guy. and to me, Gronk in his prime was an unstoppable force, and I would say Kittle is right behind Gronk of like being an all-around tight end. Now, if you could get in their prime,

now part of those guys is like they get banged up a little bit more. Like George Kittle, like, there will be games when he's pulling on defensive ends throughout the game. Right. Crushing line, they just ask him to have a physical load that those other guys just aren't asked to do. So I think you almost have to break it into two categories. and you know when you're a past catching tight end only not that Travis hasn't blocked but that's not his thing it's almost like you're a DH but your DH hit in 60 home runs right where the Bronx and the Kelsey's they're essentially like a six offensive lineman so I would say over the course of

the last couple decades it's pretty clear that it would be it would be Tony Gonzalez Travis Kelsey Kronkowski and George Kittle are the other guys that stand out to me. I think right now George looks he looks like an unstoppable force. I mean physically, he's even said he's in the best shape of his life

the after the catch that you get. Part of Travis's after the catch was he was like an NBA player. He was so fast, he was so elusive. You know, Gronk and George like buckle up, buddy, because we are lower in our shoulder. Now,

Gronk, it felt like he used to get upended so often and would get injured a lot. Remember by the end, he had like a Barry Bond's brace on his elbow. It just depends kind of the offense you want to run. And like Travis Kelsey is more suited for Andy Reed and George Kittles more suited for Kyle Shanahan. Right? Pass happy offense, run heavy offense. Is Michigan the most corrupt athletic department of college sports? Well, I think we would all agree with this.

Sharon Moore made his bed I mean literally Actually it wasn't his bed It looked like probably his office desk Because when you're sleeping with the assistant Like where do you think it's going down Right It ain't motels

Maybe on the road but during the week These guys work a lot And if you're programmed like Michigan You ain't playing that many road games So it's a lot of action in the office But if you would have beaten Ohio State And they were in the playoffs Do you think Sharon Moore would

Be in jail right now Or whatever the hell that was That thing that went viral at the end of the week? No, he would have not been fired. But that's also college athletics. That's also sports. Right? I mean, the name of the game is to win.

And when you don't or when people think you aren't good enough, they're going to look for a reason. And the difference of college and the pros is like, they will start falling and tailing you around. And boosters. The other thing is, when you, here's where I would back you up on the corrupt thing. When you're doing what he was doing

with someone in the office, everyone knows. I mean, I can't tell you how many people I've texted over the course of the last week. Oh, yeah, we were hearing rumors over the last month. These are just like NFL scouts that go through Michigan

four or five days throughout the fall. People talk. I mean, football is a lot like a high school. There aren't that many people. Everyone kind of knows each other. Rumors spread like wildfire. and listen, Jim Harbaugh is a pro guy. So anytime you get into business with pro guys,

they don't view the rules. I don't take any of the rules in college seriously. It's like, wait, this guy got pinched for giving a guy a cheeseburger? I mean, that literally happened to Jim. Gave the guy some food. Got a maneuver right home. Like, that's what we were talking about. We're now like, you can give, you know, Bryce Underwood, what,

sign a $20 million contract? So most corrupt, probably not. They're just no different. They're all the same. They are all the same. If you're winning, we will look by everything. The moment we don't win, we're going to have problems. Or the moment people that control the money, which leads us to winning, start going, we don't want this guy to coach.

We have to pivot. But if you think he was getting fired, if he beats Ohio State, I would just adamantly disagree. I don't give a shit what they say. No one believes that. that if you would have won the game and they were playing this week against you know who they have played maybe they would have played Oklahoma

Michigan Oklahoma he's coaching the game Hey it's us the Jonas brothers and guess what we have some big news What's the news? Huge news. We created our own podcast called Hey Jonas We invented a podcast? Well we didn't invent it We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts

Pretty yeah pretty wide range of podcasts We're starting a trend But this one's extra special So how do we actually come up with a name Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it. Well, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band. Before Jonas Brothers was...

This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast, where people could call in and say, hey, Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys.

Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano, and our podcast Point Game is about defying the odds. Like LeBron heading into the playoffs without Luca and Austin Reed. And finding ways to win no matter what. He's the smartest player to ever play the game. His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before.

And he knows without Luca and Austin Reeves, I got to manipulate the game. We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the playoffs. I think Joker's going to be exhausted this series because when they don't have Rudy in the lineup, he has to really guard guys like Nas Reid. He has to guard Julius Randall. And then he has to give us everything he gives us

on the night-to-night basis on offense. And when IT's friends stop by, like Quentin Richardson, we dive into some playoff history too. Steve Nass would get that thing. That man, hell get the flanks. He running up the court, licking his fingers, why he got the ball. Like, after you go through a training camp with that, Isaiah, you figure it out real quick. Oh, yeah.

Get your ass up and down the court, and you're going to get the ball. So listen to Point Game on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The story I've told myself about love or relationships can then shape my behavior, and that can lead me to sabotage the possibility of connection. This Mental Health Awareness Month, tune into the podcast deeply well with Debbie Brown and explore the journey of healing, self-discovery, and returning to yourself. We explore higher consciousness, emotional well-being, and the practices that help you find clarity, peace, and self-mastery in a world that can feel overwhelming.

The world is becoming lonelier. We're not becoming more social and connected. We're becoming more individualized. but we actually meet people in connection. If you've been searching for a soft place to land while doing the work to become whole, this podcast is for you to hear more. Listen to deeply well with Debbie Brown

from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. If you're watching the latest season of the Real Housewives of Atlanta, you already know there's a lot to break down. Norsha accusing Kelly of sleeping with a Mary, They holding Kay Michelle back from fighting Drew.

Pinky has financial issues. I like the bougie style of Housewives show. I think it looks like it's going to be interesting. On the podcast, Reality with the King, I, Carlos King, recap the biggest moments from your favorite reality shows, including the Real Housewives franchise, the drama, the alliances, and the team everybody's talking about. As an executive producer in reality television,

I'm not just watching it. I understand the game. As somebody who creates shows, I'll even say this. At the end of the day, when people are at home, they want entertainment. To hear this and more, listen to Reality with the King on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Hey, I'm Jared Adano. You might know me as that loud guy who yells out, help on the internet. Help! Somebody! Please!

But there's so much more to me than me. I'm an actor. I'm a comedian. And recently, I've become... quite the helper myself. And on my new podcast, Hope from a Hippocrat, I'll be changing lives, helping people in need

with my sage advice and thoughtful solutions. Sike, I'm a comedian. I'm not qualified to give good advice. Join me and my comedian friends as we riff, rant, recommend some of the most legally dubious advice

known to man. If I'm calling you, even if you're on your phone, let it ring twice. One ring is too scary. Oh, cream of chicken. suit. Hey, cream. Cream a chicken suit.

This is Help from a Hypocrite, the worst advice from the dumbest people you know. Listen to Help from Hypocrite as part of the Mike Pulura podcast network available on the IHart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Looking ahead to the draft, which teams will be looking to draft Fernando Mendoza? I go for the Browns and I'm really hoping we build a team around Sanders. I just don't see that happening with the jackass to fans. What would you do if you were the Browns? If Jimmy Haslam did pick Shadour over Stefansky,

is there a world where he would hire Deion to be the head coach? Sign me up for that. I mean, sign me up for that. If he hired Deion Sanders, that would be, I mean, as someone that talks about football for a living, I'm in. Now, can you fire Stefansky, a guy that's a two-time coach of the year for Dion who, I would say this year was an absolute debacle at Colorado. Probably not.

But you'd never put anything past Jimmy. If the Browns have the number one overall pick, which weird things happened these last couple weeks. Now, granted, they, let's look at the draft order right now. I think it's the Giants, right? The good thing if you're a team that is thinking about drafting a quarterback, The Giants and the Titans are one and two. Well, the Giants are not taking a quarterback.

And the Titans, given that they just hired the dude from the Chiefs, Borgesi, and then he drafted Cam Ward, you would think no matter what, even if they go, we like Fernando Mendoza coming out of college better than Cam Ward, which I would imagine most people in the NFL do. A little cleaner of a prospect in terms of his play. I mean, Cam does make some nice plays, but sometimes, like what is going on. Hard to pin it all, if any, on him. I mean, the organization is a disaster, but I would say Cam Ward's on scholarship next year.

Like, he's getting next year no matter what. So then you got the Raiders who would definitely draft him. You got the Cardinals, I would say, that would definitely draft him. And you got the Browns, and you got the Jets. So depending on how this shakes out, like, if one of those teams not named the Browns get the number one pick, you don't even have to worry about it. Now, if it's the Giants and the Titans, in some order one or two, would the Browns that have the Jags pick because of the

Travis Hunter trade, would they trade up to get Fernando Mendoza? Or would their owner be like, hey, just give Shador season and not even necessarily about Shador, but let's just keep building up this team. This team is horrendous. And maybe trains Miles Garrett and just kind of restart this whole thing. My guess right now, if they do not get the number one overall pick, because I think if they get the number one overall pick, they will 100% draft a quarterback

and Shador Sanders probably be on a different team next year because he's not going to be the backup he's just too famous of a guy to a rookie quarterback so my guess right now assuming they don't get the number one pick is that Shador Sanders

the quarterback room is like Shador, Dylan Gabriel and Deshawn Watson which sounds crazy but I mean there have been reports he's going to come back and part of it is financial it's like you can't cut them and take like a hundred million

dollar deadcap hit. Might as well just roll it back, I guess, if he's matured or something. So I do think you'll probably be safe and Shador more than likely will be the starting quarterback or have an opportunity. I mean, it did not go well on Saturday. He still got some games left to be in a competition. I mean, he didn't even have a competition. Maybe there's just a competition with him and Gabriel, assuming Stifansky's gone.

But even if Dufancy's gone are a lot of people trying to get this job? I don't know. I don't even know what to make of the Browns at this point. I just know their organization is a complete train wreck. And that's not Shador's fault. I mean, he came to a place that's an embarrassment. As a Packer fan, where do I go from here? Our season is over.

Making the divisional round would be great at this point. It feels like I'm about to watch a lame duck team limp into Cancun. So what should I do now with the extra time, any ideas? Injuries suck. You know, football, this isn't the NBA, right, where Micah Parsons would be like losing Luca or something or Steph. You would be, you'd have no shot, right, to do anything in the playoffs. Football's one game.

And I look today, you're favored against the Bears in Chicago. Now, part of that might just be history, but part of it is like, your defense is still really good. You know, we'll see the news over the course of the week on Christian Watson. and you still got Josh Jacobs. He did, I think, get a couple offensive linemen injured. But it's not inconceivable that you could win that game. And then if you win the game, if you just win like one of your last two

and maybe the Bears like lose to the Niners, all of a sudden you win the division. So I think you got to be careful about just saying our season's over. Now, are you going to win the Super Bowl without Micah Parsons? Probably not, right? I think we would agree your Super Bowl chances got dramatically impacted. Can you still win the division? Yes.

Can you still make the playoffs and beat a team in the first round? A couple years ago, you went into Dallas. No one thought you would win and you smoked them. So I think you got to be careful about like your season is over. I said that yesterday, but I meant from, I had a ticket on them going to the Super Bowl. I just think that's pretty unrealistic now. Could they win a playoff game? 100%.

The team they're going to roll out, we have seen teams way worse, historically. win playoff games. That's a fact. So I would just try to enjoy these. A little less expectations. You don't need to watch these games on the edge of your seat. But how sweet would it be

to sweep the Bears especially go into Chicago after, I mean, Micah this year has been one of the best players in the league. So it's a devastating blow. But now there's a lot of pressure on your defensive coordinator, on your offensive coordinator,

and thinking football, you just never know. I mean, coaching plays a huge part. Schemes, trick plays, maybe you bust out like a fake punt. With Mahomes out at least half of next year, does that all but ensure Kelsey retires? Some thought he might have another year left if he didn't want to end it this way, but if Mahomes isn't playing, I don't see him coming back.

I think it's impossible to even guess If you told me, you know, there were some complications and they played it safe and he just doesn't play next year, I could see it. If you told me that he is cleared and ready to go week one, I can see it. I just think it's a great unknown. We have no clue how many games they'll miss. I mean, at one point in time, we thought Joe Burrow, most people thought like, oh, he's not coming back. And he came back like seven games left. So, you know, he came back on Thanksgiving.

A lot of people talked originally when he got injured is Joe Burrell's not going to be back until the middle of December. So I think with these injuries, everyone's body is different. I can't even begin to assume when he's going to come back. I also think we're going to learn a lot these next couple weeks with Travis. You know, I think he's very prideful player. I saw a clip of his podcast with Jason, him kind of losing it in frustration. After that play, who was against? Oh, the Texans?

that play where he dropped the ball and they picked that kind of ended the game you know I think and he said like I've never had an issue of like working through situations and just grinding and working and things always worked out for me and this year for whatever reason it's just not

so I mean usually that's like well father time as most people say I mean it's a fact is undefeated you get older you're not quite as crisp players around you feel a little faster because you're not quite as fast but I would say

sitting here right now for those of us that just follow football and follow kind of the directions of stories I'd be a little surprised if Travis Kelsey does not retire this offseason I think if Gardner Minchu starts these next three games

which all signs point to him doing how hard are the chiefs trying are they putting guys on ice like is Chris Jones just playing out the string is Travis Kelsey Is there a chance that he announces his retirement over the next couple weeks and kind of gets a send-off at home

because that that would be something to keep an eye on. Their schedule here is at the Titans versus the Broncos at the Raiders. So maybe that Bronco game, it's almost like I announced before, like I'm going to retire at the end of this year so they can kind of throw him a party and have a moment for,

not just one of the greatest players in franchise history, but one of the great players in the league history. And obviously one of the most important players on one of the most important teams of the internet era. So I just keep an eye over the next seven-ish days if something breaks of like, you know, Travis has told everyone he intends to retire. This is going to be his last home game in Kansas City.

Because I think if I'm him and I've been on the fence, this might push me over. but I would That place That's an easy way to kind of like Have a pretty cool moment in a shitty season Maybe Mahomes comes out in a wheelchair

Can we put some doggone Interfill of Rivers respect on Herbert's name And more so the Chargers as a whole These have been back-to-back weeks They've battled in ugly games And beat the two teams in the last year's Super Bowl Herbert is stiff-arming dudes with a broken hand. The defense is lights out.

I'm tired of the media, making us storylines of these games being so-and-so lost, opposed to the Chargers. Well, here's the thing. The Eagles losing to you with a quarterback with a broken hand, no offensive line, was a pretty big story. The Chiefs not going to the playoffs for the first time in 11 years, obviously for the first time with my. Holmes not being in minimum in the AFC championship game, let alone the Super Bowl, is a massive story. Now, part of it is like, you're the

charters. So when you play teams like the Chiefs or the Eagles and something crazy happens on their end, they're just a bigger story. But Jim Harbaugh is, listen, anyone with the brain before Harbaugh got there knew Herbert was a stud. But anyone arguing that Herbert

was overrated or, listen, obviously he had a bad playoff moment against the Jags. No one argued that. His coach was also Brandon Staley, who was like running defenses where guys were wide open. Jim Harbaugh is one of the best coaches of his era. He's one of the rare guys if he ends up winning a Super Bowl in the NFL to do both. I mean, we have seen guys go to college to the pros and be like, God, this is a fish out of water.

Sabin, Steve Spurrier, who are an all-time great college coaches. And Saban's the greatest college coach of all-time. And we've seen the reverse. Urban Meyer didn't even make it through a year in the NFL. So, you know, look at Chip Kelly. I'd say a pretty big flame out in the National Football League over the course of his career. And I just think that Harbaugh's a legend, man.

I saw it firsthand when I lived in the Bay Area when he was coached in the Niners. He's just, he's nuts, but he's freaking elite. He's, I know his brother has a Super Bowl, and he doesn't. I think he's better than his brother. And I feel pretty confidently about arguing that. Now, if you want to base on the one, game in the Super Bowl, John beat him. No one can argue that. But if you gave me just all teams

were even, I would take Jim seven days a week over John Harbaugh. I don't think you could find a Raven fan right now that wouldn't want Jim Harbaugh to be the coach. I mean, even look at Greg Roman. Gets Greg Roman, they pass it all the time now. One thing that you always get with Jim too, despite being a quarterback, like John is a defensive guy. Right? He was a special team's defensive guy with Jim Johnson with the Eagles before he got hired with the Ravens. Jim's quarterback, yet his teams always run the ball and play defense. I just think Jim's a superstar. And it got a little weird there for a minute of Michigan, but by the end, he's winning an Addie. And his record with the Niners speaks for itself. And beside in this, in the internet

era of starting in 2000, Kyle's the only other guy that won there. And Stanford, like, we talk a lot about what happened at Indiana. Now, what? he's done at Indiana. Overall, but he's the number one seat, is more impressive than what Jim did. But when he took over Stanford, they were 1 and 11. By the time they left, they were in a BCS game.

And when he handed the program off to David Shaw, one of his assistant coaches, they were like a top five team for like five straight years, winning Rose Bulls. So Jim Harbaugh, I saw him, I remember going to a game where I grew up in Davis that's right by Sacramento. It has a school called UC Davis.

And at the time, they were division, it was division two. They weren't even D1A, I think. So they used to play the University of San Diego. Maybe they were one double a. I forget when they exactly moved up. But they played this university of San Diego. And I remember my dad was home for Thanksgiving from Cal Poly. And he's like, you want to go to a football game on Saturday?

Yeah, let's go. He was a big, my dad loved UC Davis. He would have been pretty fired up. They were on ESPN last week and kind of got worked. Actually, did get worked. They couldn't stop the run. have like almost 300 yards running on them. But their coach actually is pretty impressive guy.

Former quarterback, UC Davis, worked at Boise State. And I think at Cal or Oregon, like he's got a pretty good resume. He's got to keep an eye on. Tim Plow, I think his name is. But Jim Harbaugh rolled in with Josh Johnson, and they didn't lose. And I don't think they lost that season. And then he got immediately hired to Stanford and the rest of history. So I think the story is just Jim Harbaugh.

And Jim Harbaugh is a freaking stud. To get this team to the playoffs, given the injuries they've had, is pretty unreal. And your quarterback, I don't think, I mean, who doesn't think Justin Herbert is good? I just don't understand where that contingent was ever created. Like, do we both watch football? Because if we do, like, you can't really have that argument. You should talk NBA, just top events. I know your specialty is not in, quote, the arena, but I'd love to hear your views on the NBA.

I was thinking about this because when I usually take screenshots to kind of corral all the DMs that I'm going to talk about before I do it. So it's easier to do than just scroll through the Instagram app. I love the NBA growing up. I mean, I grew up right by the Sacramento Kings. I was probably 20 minutes away from Marco Arena. Grew up in Michael Jordan era. Obviously, the 2000, Kobe Shack, you name it, through, you know, Steph Curry and Clay Thompson, and Draymond.

I went to a bunch of those games when I lived in the area and did radio. I don't think I've watched an NBA game this year. I mean, I've seen bits of pieces, but like, I've never in my entire life watched less. And part of it is you get older, you do this for a living. I spend so much time watching football. The couple quote-unquote off nights I have, like I just can't watch sports really on like Tuesday or Wednesday. Right? We're probably doing other stuff, kind of, especially I'm having a child.

Now, I do kind of keep up with the league. Like I'll listen to like Simmons or Win Horse. But I just don't watch it anymore. I mean, I was thinking about this during the baseball season. And the World Series was incredible. I mean, I've been glued the last couple years to baseball playoffs. I don't think I watched nine innings of a baseball game all season long, total. And I grew up, I love the San Francisco Giants.

They were by far right there with the 49ers as my favorite team as a kid. And Barry Bonds, I mean, if you grew up where I grew up, he was like, Jesus with a bat. didn't care that he did steroids. We just wanted him to get bombs. And I just don't care. I don't know. It's like something has left me where part of it is I just, I can't. I just don't get to watch it as much. I just found out the NBA Cup just finished. I didn't even know what was going on. So, I mean, I'll be the first to admit. I just don't watch as much. I watch more college basketball this year than I have the NBA. Even like the Warriors. I kind of fall on through like the ESPN.com app on my phone. I'll just say, oh, I'll just kind of watch it.

that way. Now, granted, they're not very good. Hey, it's us, the Jonas Brothers, and guess what? We have some big news. What's the news, name? Huge news. We created our own podcast called, Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast?

Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts. We're starting a trend. But this one's extra special. So how do we actually come up with a name, Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember.

I think it was on a call about what we should call it. And, well, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band before Jonas Brothers. This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast, where people could call in and say, hey, Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys.

Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm CJ Toledano, and our podcast Point Game is about defining the odds. Like LeBron heading into the playoffs without Luca and Austin Reed. And finding ways to win no matter what. He's the smartest player to ever play the game. His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before. And he knows. Without Luca and Austin Reeves, I got to manipulate the game. We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the playoffs. I think Joker's going to be exhausted.

at this series because when they don't have Rudy in the lineup, he has to really guard guys like Nas Reid. He has to guard Julius Randall. And then he has to give us everything he gives us on the night-to-night basis on offense. And when IT's friends stop by, like Quentin Richardson, we dive into some playoff history too. Steve Nash will get that thing. That man, hell get the flying. He running up the court licking his fingers while he got the ball.

Like, after you go through a training camp with that, Isaiah, you figure it out real quick. Oh, yeah. Get your ass up and down. down the court and you're gonna get the ball. So listen to Point Game on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Jared Adano. You might know me as that loud guy who yells out,

help on the internet. Help! Somebody! Please! But there's so much more to me than me. I'm an actor. I'm a comedian. And recently, I've become quite the helper myself.

And on my new podcast, Hope from a Hypocrite, I'll be changing lives, helping people in need with my sage advice and thoughtful solutions. Sike, I'm a comedian. I'm not qualified to give good advice. Join me and my comedian friends as we riff, rant,

recommend some of the most legally dubious advice known to man. If I'm calling you, even if you're on your phone, let it ring twice. One ring is too scary. Oh, cream of chicken suit. Hey, cream, cream a chicken suit.

This is Help from a Hypocrite, the worst advice from the dumbest people you know. Listen to Help from Hypocrite as part of the Mike Cultura Podcast Network available on the IHartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If you're watching the latest season of the Real Housewives of Atlanta, you already know there's a lot to break down. Gorsha accusing Kelly of sleeping with a merry man. They holding Kay Michelle back from fighting Drew. Pinky has financial issues. I like the bougie style of Housewives show.

I think it looks like it's going to be interesting. On the podcast, Reality with the King, I, Carlos King, recap the biggest moments from your favorite reality shows, including the Real Housewives franchise, the drama, the alliances, and the team everybody's talking about. As an executive producer in reality television, I'm not just watching it. I understand the game.

As somebody who creates shows, I'll even say this. At the end of the day, when people are at home, they want entertainment. To hear this and more, Listen to Reality with the King on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. The story I've told myself about love or relationships can then shape my behavior, and that can lead me to sabotage the possibility of connection. This Mental Health Awareness Month, tune into the podcast deeply well with Debbie Brown and explore the journey of healing, self-discovery, and returning to yourself.

We explore higher consciousness, emotional well-being, and the practices that help you find clarity, peace, and self-mastery in a world that can feel overwhelming. The world is becoming lonelier. We're not becoming more social and connected. We're becoming more individualized, but we actually meet people in connection. If you've been searching for a soft place to land while doing the work to become whole, this podcast is for you to hear more. Listen to deeply well with Debbie Brown.

from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. During the Bill's Patriot game yesterday, we saw the difference between a battle-tested quarterback and one with incredible potential. From the human side, I can only imagine Drake was up all night thinking about that game.

Do you think young football-obsessed players like him latch on to moments like this as motivation, inspiration, and place a chip on their shoulder? especially for future matchups against the same team. You think Drake May has played a more important or meaningful game in the NFL career than this one up to date. Keep it up. It was by far the biggest game of his life.

This guy didn't play at LSU or didn't play at Ohio State or Michigan. This guy played at North Carolina. So like North Carolina, North Carolina State, North Carolina, Duke. He's never, that's the biggest game of his life. And partly they could have won the division. I listen, when you're young, you're going to lose. That's part of the NFL. They were an underdog against the bills.

They have Josh Allen, who's the reigning MVP, who Drake May aspires to one day be like 85%, 90% as good as. If he is, he'll be a Locke Hall of Famer. So it was tough that there's no one disputing or arguing that. But like, I think part of it, and this is why you pay Mike Vrable someone. much money is to calm everyone down. You know, people say this. You know, there's so many people that have played or worked for Nick Sabin that now, you know, do podcasts or working the media. They all say Nick was awesome after losses. After wins is where you got to keep your head on a

swivel because he is on everyone's ass. After losses, that's where it's like, hey guys, everything's going to be okay. They had two bad drives at the end of the game, which is partly on Josh McDaniels. You got to call some runs. Settle the kid down. Like it's a tough spot for Drake May, right? Who clearly was just a little off at the end of the game. The whole offense was.

But they still got, by no means, like, this is part of the NFL too. It's not even just like you go in the lab, chip on your shoulder. It's like, bro, we got a huge game this week. We're playing the Ravens on what day is that? Is it Sunday night? Yeah, Sunday night football. Like that's, I can't really dwell on this motivation. I got to lock back in, whatever we screwed up at.

I got to focus on. But we got to win this game. Because all of a sudden we lose. We got the Ravens, the Jets, and the Dolphins. So we should win two of the last three. Now, I'm recording this before Monday Night Football, so we'll see how the dolphins look. The bills who are one game behind them have the. have the Browns, then they host the Eagles and they get the Jets.

So, I mean, I think there's a pretty good chance that the bills can run the table. Now, the Patriots, if they win this game, I think most people will think they'll run the table. But if they lose, like, it's hard. You know, it's pretty difficult. All of a sudden, you went from, we could have won the division, December 15th, to now it might come down to week 18. we got to win just to hold serve and I don't know what the tiebreaker is

but to just be the five seat so things can change quickly and you know speaking of the Patriot Bill's game is sometimes when you're playing Josh Allen right now unless you have the 85 Bears defense when he gets on a heater there is no stopping him he's the best player in the world at playing NFL football

there's not even I don't even think there's a close second right now. So that's not on Drake May, right, that Josh Allen could not be stopped. But I do think it's really important this week for Mike Vrable and Josh, who, you know, for a lot of Josh's career, especially over the last like 10 years, right, from like, whenever he came back in like 2011, 12 range once Bill O'Brien went to Penn State. And up until he left to the Raiders, it was a lot of Tom Brady, right? And even his one year that with the rookie year, Mac Jones, no one thought they were going very far. This Patriot team is like,

this Patriot team could win the Super Bowl. Definitely could win the AFC. Could have been the one seat. And now you kind of get brought down to earth. So Mike Frable, as a player and as a coach, ton of experience. And Josh, same thing. To me, it's kind of on them

to dial in with Drake and be like, everything's going to be okay. We can't dwell on those last couple drives that were disaster. And if I'm Josh, I put it on me. Like, those are terrible play calls. I should have called maybe a draw, a quick screen, something to just make it easy on everyone.

Instead of having you drop five, seven steps, scramble around, like, it was dumb. It was my fault. I'm not coaching Tom Brady here. I'm coaching a second-year guy from North Carolina who up until the last month has just not played in big games in his entire life. So part of when you draft a player,

like Drake May, and you go all in on a guy high in the draft, You're not just drafting the talent, right? He's tall, he's got a big arm, he throws a nice deep ball. You're also drafting the character. And you hear that word used a lot. To me, character is like the wiring. How, you know, when it comes to mental toughness, when it comes to drive, when it comes to focus.

And once you believe in that human being, you believe that he can handle stuff like this. Because that was a tough loss. And it's easy for him, even though it's not his fault, to put it on his shoulders. It was my fault. and that's why in this sport that is so, you know, predicated on the coaches playing chess, you know, and using the players, like it's coaches are stars for a reason because they're calling the plays. They're the ones putting the players in positions to make plays. You know, we've seen a lot of great players play for bad coaches and look terrible, right?

Because schemes and play calls can impact guys' towns. and I think it's very, very important this week for Vrable, obviously to get his team refocused, and specifically Josh, to not let Drake May kind of unravel a little bit, right? Because it was going so well, and then up a blink of an eye, this league is so competitive,

and you're playing, you know, the bills who've won a shitload of games over the course of the last five, six years. Like, that's not their first rodeo. That was this Patriot team's first rodeo. And it kind of, you know, came to fruition as the game went on. So I think the guy that really needs to zone in is honestly less Drake May and more Josh and take accountability of like, those are some awful play calls down the stretch. The volume. Hey guys, it's us.

The Jonas Brothers. I'm Joe. I'm Kevin. And I'm Nick. And guess what? We created our own podcast called, Hey, Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it.

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What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano. It's our favorite time of the year on our podcast point game, the playoffs. We're digging into the biggest surprises of the season. And I'm looking back on some of my greatest playoff moments. If we didn't talk ever again, I was harmed. You just understood.

That's how personal it got. Wow. Then after that game seven, Mark keep coming till he's like, you know I love you, dog. You know, it's all love. This was just playoffs. This was just basketball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Turn someday into right now with Buddy by Jake Radio.

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Search Body by Jake Radio and stream it for free. Have a great day. I heart radio. I'm Joey Dardano, and on my new podcast, Hope from a Hypocrite, I'll be changing lives, helping people in need with thoughtful solutions. Sike, I'm a comedian. I'm not qualified to give good advice. Join me and my comedian friends as we riff rant and recommend some of the most

legally dubious advice known to me. This is Help from a Hypocrite, the worst advice from the dumbest people you know. Listen to Help from a Hypocrite Wednesdays on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This season on Dear Chelsea, with me, Chelsea Handler, we have some fantastic guests like Amelia Clark.

When, like, young people come up to me and they want to be an actor or whatever. And my first thing is always, can you think of anything else that you can do rather be. Who's disappointed in? Do that. David O'Yelloo.

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