The Herd with Colin Cowherd - 3 & Out - Rodgers out in NY, Latest with the draft, All-Star Games are dead

Episode Date: February 18, 2025

John is back after taking a few days off and jumps into the pod talking about the Jets cutting Aaron Rodgers, where he thinks Rodgers should go next if he's looking to make the most money and it's not actually playing the game. Next, John dives into the draft convo and how he thinks that Travis Hunter has the right decision by coming out and saying that he is entering the draft as a cornerback. After, he discusses the NBA All-Star Game and if there is anything that the NBA can do to revive the game or are all ASG's DOA. Later, John answers your questions during this episode's mailbag segment. 4:12 - Aaron Rodgers out in NY 14:24 - Draft Convo 24:49 - NBA All-Star Game 36:07 - Mailbag Follow John on Twitter, Instagram and YouTube for the latest. #Volume #HerdSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Hey, guys, it's us. The Jonas Brothers. I'm Joe. I'm Kevin. And I'm Nick. And guess what? We created our own podcast called, Hey, Jonas.

We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. We get to ask other people questions because we're sick and tired of being asked questions. Well, sick and tired is a strong way to put it. But, you know, tired and sick. Tired and sick.

Listen to Hey, Jonas, on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you. you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman

help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends

on the ice. Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Deanna Maria Riva, and on my new podcast, How Hard Can It Be? I call on my Gen X squad from Ohio to Hollywood as we navigate Midlife's most fantastic BS. Unfiltered conversations from night sweats to futas to scheduling sex. Wait, what sex? Is it just me, or does every woman my age want to look at Pinterest instead of having sex sometimes? They say we can't polish a turn, but we're sure going to try.

So let's get blunt with. laughs, tears, or tears of laughter. Listen to How Hard Can It Be with Diana Maria Riva on the IHart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Will Ferrell's Big Money Players and IHart Podcasts presents soccer moms. So I'm Leanne. Yeah. This is my best friend, Janet. Hey.

And we have been joined at the hips since high school. Absolutely. A redacted amount of years later, we're still joined at the hip. Just a little bit bigger hips. This is a podcast. We're recording it as we tailgate our youth soccer games in the back of my Honda Odyssey. with all the snacks and drinks. Why did you get hard seltzer instead of beer?

Oh, they hit a bogo. Well, then you got them. Listen to soccer moms on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The Volume. What is going on, everybody, John Middlekoff 3 and Out podcast? Hopefully everyone is having a good day recording this little old show on President's Day. Gloomy day here in Arizona. Not too gloomy, I guess.

65 degrees and hopefully we still know how to podcast took a couple days off time to hop back on the saddle and start slinging some football takes now what we will do today some thoughts from Aaron Rogers to Matt Stafford to Travis Hunter

to some takes on the All-Star game because everyone's like the NBA All-Star game the NFL All-Star game I watched the hockey All-Star Nation thing that was sweet and we also do a mail-based

at John Middlkoff. We've got a lot of new listeners over the course of the season and people ask like, what happens during the off season? We podcast. We got Combine right around the corner.

Then you got free agency. Then you got the draft. Then you got OTAs. There is no slowing down. We go pedal to the metal here. So we'll be podcast just like we did during the season. We will also, though,

I do a golf podcast. A little big of a passion project. just trying to expand the business here. And we've been doing it for a couple years. We're going to expand and doing videos on the course for YouTube as well. We did a couple in the fall. Plan is to do a lot more this year. Trying to figure out exactly how we're going to attack that this week.

So we will do go-low podcasts and just on everything golf from gambling to the PJ tour to just anything that's going on. We will BS about. And I also have a golf Instagram. So we do a mailbag as well. So you can fire in at Golopod. It kind of goes dormant during football season, but I will resuscitate that thing and bring it back to life.

And we will utilize that moving forward. So at Golopod is the Instagram account that I run as well. Probably not much has gone on there lately. But I will get back involved with that right now. So if you got any questions, want to get involved in any of the golf mailbag that is where you find me and other than that subscribe to the podcast if you listen on collins feed subscribe to the youtube channel appreciate everyone that has and let's uh let's talk some football let's start with aaron rogers who uh was

officially cut i guess unofficially because the waiver wire's dead for i think another week or so but the jets put out a statement and uh basically i i love it You know, in sports, I guess I fall in so closely. Maybe it happens in other industries, but it's just a go-to football thing when a player or a coach is fired. Like, we wish him the best in his future endeavors and whatever he pursues in the future. Like, I love that being the final statement. It's like, no, you can't get this guy out of your building quick enough.

And this isn't just on Aaron Rogers. This is not any time a coach is fired. Jerry said it with Mike McCarthy. It happens with every person. It's like, I wish you the best. No, you want this guy gone and you hope whoever you bring in to replace him is way better than this guy. So you're actually not wishing him the best. But the Aaron Rogers situation was, it's funny, you know.

They went all in. I don't blame them for doing it. And it didn't just backfire in their face. It was a disaster. It was like an epic all-time disaster. It was one of those situations that's going to be. going to be talked about the rest of my life. I mean, there were some historic ones when I was young that I didn't witness.

Like, hey, remember Willie Mays on the Mets? It's like, no, I don't. But clearly that didn't go well. And that feels like it's going to be one of those situations, especially if Rogers doesn't play anymore. And I never blame a player for trying to play till his, like, essentially athletic dying days. Because the real world sucks compared to getting to play football, basketball, baseball, hockey, you name it for a living.

It doesn't get any better than that. And mainly, it doesn't pay any better than that. And when you play quarterback, even at like a mediocre level, I mean, Gardner Minchu got $15 million last year from the Raiders. There aren't many W-2 jobs on the open market that pay $15 million. So Aaron Rogers, who his days of getting $40, $50 million are over. But when you look at Gardner Minchu getting $15 million, It's very conceivable that someone can pay him one year 20, $25 million.

So I would not blame him for trying to continue his career. The problem is, his options, and we've talked about this before, are not going to be very good. It's going to be the Jets. It's going to be the Raiders. It's going to be teams like the Giants. It's going to be teams that are all drafting really, really high for a reason. They suck. So if I was giving advice to Aaron Rogers, and if I was giving advice to Amazon,

doesn't this make a lot of sense? Like, listen, Herb Street and Al got that thing off the mat, got it going, got it going in the right direction, made it a valuable property. A lot of us watch Thursday night football, 10 to 15 million people. But Al feels like he's, and I'm pro Al Michaels, but a couple steps away from retirement. And the Herb Street thing was kind of filler because they got denied on guys like John Lynch and Sean McVey. Well, Aaron Rogers is sitting right there for you. And doesn't it kind of scratch Aaron's itch? Like, part of staying as an NFL quarterback if he were to sign with a bad team

wouldn't just be because of money, it would be because of what the NFL brings. Keeps you relevant, keeps you in the public eye, helps you, you know, be in the mix to your off-the-field businesses. Well, isn't that what this modern-day television show does? Because look at Tom Brady. They gave him $350, $375 million. He'd never call it. the game. I would say Aaron Rogers has proven to be much more of an outgoing personality of willing to say whatever. And that's the space he's in. Like ultimately the space of calling a football

game is entertainment. Right. It's not like you got to just color within the lines. No, like, be yourself. Do whatever you want to do. And I do think Aaron Rogers to Amazon like, listen, makes a lot of sense. And if I was Amazon, I would be all over them. And the money that they were willing to pay a couple years ago to guys like McVeigh and John Lynch were eye-opening. Why wouldn't they be willing to do that with Aaron Rogers? Why wouldn't they be willing to like, okay, it's like Fox made a big splash. Obviously a couple years ago, ESPN made a big splash, hiring Joe Buck and Troy Aikman away from Fox. Maybe this is Amazon's time.

And listen, I'm not saying he would take it. Maybe he wants no part of this. Aaron Rogers doesn't seem like he's destined to be like a coach or a GM. But this feels like kind of a cushy gig. You could make $15, $20 million a year, do it for a couple years, ease into retirement, still get paid a premium, get to be around football, and let's face it, kind of keep yourself relevant. I actually think, like, this is the perfect gig for him. If he asked me for advice, not saying he would, and he won't, it's like, should I go to the Titans or should I go to the Raiders? Or should I be interested in Amazon?

And Amazon, like, I'm sorry, like, it's time to get a new booth. It's time to blow that thing up. And I think Rogers is the perfect individual for that spot. I think when you look at the Jets and I think the Falcons fall under this too, sometimes in life you have to be desperate. Like part of the reason I'm a podcaster is because probably about a decade ago, there were some desperate times. And it kind of led me into this profession and it's worked out pretty well.

Right. There are times in your life professionally and probably, personally where you have to do desperate things. Because the old adage is never make a business decision out of desperation. I think that's a little bullshit. I would, the way I would phrase it would be never make a big business decision out of desperation. And I think any time that you trade or pay a quarterback a lot of money, when you're in a situation like the Falcons were, when you're in a situation like the Jets,

were it's not an ideal operation because you go, well, why are the Packers trading me this guy? Why doesn't Kevin O'Connell and the Minnesota Vikings want this player back? And currently the name that's floating around is Matt Stafford. And it's, you know, the Rams, I don't know, I'm having Matt Stafford. And we've heard it now for a couple years. It's like, something's just a little off. And I think usually this stuff comes back to money. and I don't blame the Rams.

Like, yeah, we're not really into giving you $100 million guaranteed right now at 37, 38 years old. We're not into getting into a position where if this does go off the rails, we feel like we're the Atlanta Falcons or the New York Jets. We're going to take a huge, huge cap hit

for a guy that, you know, we feel is on the wrong side, probably on whole 17, 18, who were proven we can still win with and we like playing with, but this is a business. and we're a little uncomfortable with where we're at in this cycle. Now, we don't have many better options.

We actually don't have any other options, but we don't plan on giving you a big contract extension. So if you want that contract extension, you're going to have to get it from someone else. And when I see that teams like, oh, the Giants could be really interested in Matt Stafford, like, that's got disaster written all over it. It really does.

It's like, okay, the New York Giants who have been one of the worst operations, for a decade plus would be interested in trading for Matt Stafford and obviously if you're going to trade for him you're going to give him a lot more money on his contract because Sean McVeigh and the L.A. Rams who have established themselves

as clearly one of the best operations in the league are over it. I would not be doing that. I would not be getting into business with situations that well-run franchises want out of. Especially even with, even with, you know, we saw it last year with Kirk Cousins, who was going to be released in the next couple weeks.

He was available for a reason. He was old. He was injured. And he was going to be really, really expensive. And the Falcons were like, yeah, we'll give you a $90 million guaranteed. And it was clear by halfway through the season. Like, this is an epic disaster. And part of the reason it was a disaster is like,

your coaching staff, do they know what they're doing? Matt Stafford used to be way better. Why? He was younger. He was in the prime of his career. And he was around people that were over their head and they did not win. Part of being a good player in the NFL is you also need good coaches and a good operation in the NFL. Like it's pretty clear looking back when Tom Brady chose the Bucks. Like, yeah, they had Bruce Ariens, Jason Light, who's one of the best GMs,

and a lot of good players around him. They were actually pretty well built to handle that situation. If you would have put Tom Brady on a team that was not, it would have blown up in his face. So when I see desperation when it comes to older quarterbacks, I see a massive, massive red flag. And I see something as an owner. Like I understand why a general manager,

why a coach, people on the hot seat and people that are desperate to keep their jobs would want to make a decision like that. But, and I'm not pro meddling, and you hear this a lot. Like, you know, the owner can't just stay out of the way. Well, sometimes you have to get involved because you're like, this is a moronic idea. I don't need to know our entire playbook and the entire draft board to know. I don't like the way this looks, the way this smells, or where this has a potential to go.

There's way more negative outcomes than it comes to positive outcomes when it comes to this transaction. So I would just the Stafford business if LA wants out I'm sorry I don't want in Okay let's go to a little draft conversation Because there was a big story at the end of last week That Travis Hunter it gave the list of guys going to the combine And Travis Hunter was listed as a corner And I say this all the time during the draft and I will continue to beat this drum where you are drafted and how you are discussed as a draft prospect

has nothing to do with how you're going to be as an NFL player. So your draft value, this is an economic exercise. So if I view you as a second round pick, that has nothing to do with what you're going to be once you get to the NFL. But based on whether it be size and measurables, speed, production, just overall talent, I don't view you as I need to take you in the top 20 picks

to acquire your services. There are a lot of homes that go for $700,000 that would be a great place to lay your head down every night. But there's a reason that house costs $700,000 if you put it into a different market, that house might be $2.2 million. And sometimes guys and players coming out of college

based on a bunch of different circumstances, some of them out of their own control, role, their draft value is different from what it would be if I took this guy from Texas Tech and I put him at Ohio State. That's part of the business warrant. No different with positions. We say this all the time, right? It's obvious quarterback is the number one position in the NFL. And if you need a quarterback and you're drafting a quarterback and the guy is viewed as an NFL starter, you draft them number one. You don't even hesitate. And then offensive and defensive linemen when it comes to tackles and pass rushers are both few right behind them.

You could make the argument that the third most valuable position, so if you go quarterback, offensive and defensive lineman, tackles and ends, I would say corner would have to be pretty high up there. And if you could tell me, hey, you think both these guys are going to be an all pro, would you take a wide receiver or would you take a cornerback? I would 1,000% take a corner. because it is typically easier to find good wide receivers later in the draft than it is corners, especially if I view the guy as a lockdown player.

And I think Travis Hunter, whether he made the decision, whether Dion helped him make the decision, whether whoever in his life helped to make this decision, it was the correct decision. Because when you look at the wide receiver class, it's easy to get lost in the shuffle. It's all size, you know, different size requirements. some teams need this, some teams need that. And they're just not viewed as highly in the sense of, I can find guys later in the draft. That is just not true for corners.

And at the end of the day, Travis Hunter, as a wide receiver prospect, he's really good. Like, he is a first round wide receiver prospect. But I don't view him like Jamar Chase or, you know, last year, I thought Malik Neighbors was a better prospect than Marvin Harrison. Like just some can't miss, no doubt about it, guy.

would take in the top five. But at corner, looking back last year, how many teams regret passing on guys like Jared Verse and Quinion Mitchell for the Eagles? Obviously, looking back, the defensive linemen should have gone higher. But if you could do it over, there's no way on God's Green Earth that Mitchell ends up to the Eagles in the early 20s. He probably ends up going in the top 10. Because getting a lockdown corner makes your defense that much easier to run when a guy takes away half the field, especially a player who can chase around number one wide receivers. And then the discussion of, can he play both ways? That's a bigger picture discussion that will have to play out over time. I don't think it's physically possible to play corner and wide receiver

as full-time starters in the NFL. There are 17 games. Playing corner, just think about the wide receivers you have to go against in the NFL on a weekly basis, especially if you are immediately the number one, you know, like the number one guy as a corner. Like if you're the top guy, you're chasing around their best guy. It's just extremely taxing. But like, this is the easiest way to not even make a team hesitate to take you in the top two or three picks. Because if it's like, I want to play wide receiver, I also plan on doubling up as a

corner, but I'm a wide receiver first. I don't think he goes aside. But when he says, I'm going to play corner, that's what I want to play. I want to play offense as well. but I'm a corner. That's how you go in the top two or three. So smart move by him. Ashton Genty, I saw a headline today,

a dude that writes for the athletic, wrote that the cowboy should take him at number 12 of Rawl. Taking Ashton Genty at 12 of Rawl would be insane. And this gets back to that conversation. I love Ashton Genty as a running back. I think he is going to be a high-end starter in the NFL. But you can find running backs, especially in this draft,

are going to start between pick 40 and 80. There are going to be a ton of future NFL starters that are drafted on the second day. And if I'm the Dallas Cowboys and I have a lot of needs on my team, I am not taking a running back at number 12. That is insane. And listen, like, actually, Jens, he's 5'8. If he was six feet, you might be able to convince me, hey, it could be Adrian

Peterson. He's 5'8. But I couldn't take him at number 12 overall. especially when I go, well, why can't I just get my starter in the second or third round? Who do you take high overall? Take a offensive or defensive lineman. How did the Cowboys get good there for a while? They drafted a bunch of offensive linemen.

What happened in the last couple of years? Like, where's their depth up front? You got Michael Parsons, who, you know, you've kind of contemplated trading. But this is a deep draft at defensive lineman. Well, you're going to have the opportunity to pick one of the better ones at 12. So how many teams last year go, God, I could have used Jared Verst. Don't overthink this. Take a defense.

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Please play responsibly. On behalf of Boot Hill Casinoin Resort in Kansas, 21 and over, age and eligibility varies by jurisdiction, void in Ontario. Bonus bets expire 168 hours after issuance. For additional terms and responsible gaming resources, see dkng.com slash audio. Hey, it's us, the Jonas brothers, and guess what? We have some big news. What's the news, new? Huge news.

We created our own podcast called, Hey, Jonas, we invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts. starting a trend. But this one's extra special. So how do we actually come up with a name,

Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it. Well, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band before Jonas Brothers. This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes. I have a very different memory of this.

We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast, where people could call in and say, hey, Jonas. and then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it.

Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform?

We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Deanna Maria Riva, actress, mother, and a Gen X woman walking through life one hot flash and hormonal crying jag at a time. You ladies know what I mean. I'll bet you a paramedipausal chin here you do. So let's talk about it. Join me on my new podcast. How hard can it be with the Adam Maria Riva, where I call on my Gen X squads from Ohio to Hollywood as we navigate midlife's most fantastic BS.

All of a sudden, I'd had hanginess happening on my own. I was like, what the hell is that? I was married when I had her, so I didn't even consider how empty that nest was going to be. Mood swings, night sweats, fupas, sex drive. Wait, what sex? Dating at 45. How high can it be getting naked at 50? with the new guy. That one's kind of hard. Well, that's lighting.

They say we can't polish a turd, but we're sure going to try. So let's get blunt with laughs, tears, or tears of laughter, and dive into it, unfiltered and unbothered and ask, how hard can it be? I cannot believe I'm about to say this out loud in public. Listen to How Hard Can It Be with Diana Maria Riva as part of my Cultura podcast network available on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano and our podcast. podcast point game is about defining the odds. Like LeBron heading into the playoffs without Luca and Austin Reed. And finding ways to win no matter what. He's the smartest player to ever play the game. His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before.

And he knows without Luca and Austin Reeves, I got to manipulate the game. We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the playoffs. I think Joker's going to be exhausted this series because when they don't have Rudy in the lineup, he has to really guard guys like Nasree. He has to guard Julius Randall. And then he has to give us everything he gives us on the night-to-night basis on offense.

And when IT's friends stop by, like Quentin Richardson, we dive into some playoff history too. Steve Nass would get that thing. That man, hell get to fly. He running up the court, licking his fingers, why he got the ball. Like, after you go through a training camp with that, Isaiah, you figure it out real quick. Get your ass up and down the court, and you're going to get the ball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you. you get your podcasts.

A lot of discussion about the NBA All-Star game falling off a cliff. And this is not a new thing. I mean, this happened. Feels like it happened the last, I don't know, five, six years. It's like embarrassingly bad. It looks like the NFL did the last couple years of pads. But in football, it's somewhat understandable. Because if you're going to pat up, you either got to play 100%

all out, where obviously guys get injured all the time just playing the sport, or you can't play it at all. It's why once they kind of took their foot off the gas pedal, it did not work. It was like, this thing's over. It's done, which I understand. It's like, listen, I make $20 million a year. I am not willing to break my shoulder or break an arm or tear an ACL in an all-star game. Totally get it.

Where in basketball, you can go. 75% no problem and pick your spots and have it be a competitive game while also an All-Star game it was like that for a long period of time most of my life. They have completely just quit. They have raised the white flag and said we do not care

and the moment the talent says we do not care the consumer's out because like think about would you ever watch a television show or a movie where the actors and the director or just the entertainment just didn't give a shit they didn't

didn't even try. It would be awful. I was watching the White Lotus last night. The one thing that's so great about that show is like, it's just, one, it's, it parallels each other each season, how they use the different characters, but the effort and how good the acting is, it's like, this thing is just fantastic. These people sell me on the craziness of that show. And isn't that what most great television shows do? Those people's like, this is really believable. This is hilarious or this is serious or this is much-watched TV and that's the best part about sports is every Sunday when we turn into tune into the NFL you're getting everyone's best effort right it's like even the shitty teams they're playing their ass off down the stretch it's like

why are the Patriots winning this game because it's football and because you try and basketball they're out so the consumers out these games are over football game has been over that that it does not exist anymore. They went to flag football. Now, the problem in the NBA, you can't really do that, but I saw online that, I don't follow the NHL, but this

hockey thing was going on. And I had seen the story that they had booed our anthem, so it's like, hey, we're playing Canada. And they boot our anthem. It's like, I should probably tune this on. And within, I don't know, 15 seconds, there were just like three all-out brawls

and I was glued. For three periods, I did not budge, and I watched America beat Canada. And it was fucking awesome. Why? Because they cared. Every guy on that ice was giving me everything they had. That's all I can ask for as a consumer. So the moment you quit, and I understand, listen, the NBA,

I think the average salary in the NBA is $12 million. I would imagine the average salary in the NBA All-Star game. It's probably over $40 million. So once you get people that are that rich, they start dictating the terms. And in the NBA, the players have been dictating the terms for a long time. They don't even give a shit about the regular season. So you wonder, it's like, why are the ratings suck? Well, it's because I tune it on, you know, in a random January or December or February.

And like, some guys aren't playing. No one gives a shit. So the moment you don't care, I don't care. And the moment, I don't think it matters. Like, that's a problem. And I've said it forever about the NFL. They kind of just have it built in just because every game matters. They're only so many.

It's just the nature of the sport. If the NFL, if you could play, and trust me, they would if they could, three games a week. And instead of a 17-game schedule, it was like a 50-game schedule, it probably wouldn't be as powerful. It definitely would not. So I think these All-Star games are dead. And whatever the NHL did, because in an NHL game,

a lot like a football game, you're either all in or it's going to fail immediately. And clearly with whatever they got going on with this national kind of round robin thing, these guys care. And maybe it's something to do with putting on your country's colors. But it worked. And I'm not even a hockey guy. I fly in for the NHL playoffs.

I enjoy hockey because there's a violence and there's an edge. to the sport that that really only football can really bring, but they're playing on ice. I mean, it's just, those guys are savages. And it was really, really impressive. It was cool and fun to watch.

And I also think it just brought in the light, like the NBA, like your dunk contest hasn't mattered in a decade. Your three-point contest is D-O-A. You're just done. And that's okay. Like, some things run its course. And in the NFL, the Pro Bowl ran its, discourse. You can't even convince guys to show up. It's like, hey, we're not, we, it's a flag

football game. You just get to go there. You get a bonus in your contract. You get to drink, you know, take your wife or whatever to Miami or Vegas or used to be in Hawaii. And for a long time, that was a big deal. Because if you played in the 90s, even if you were making a couple million dollars, free trip, everyone always went. That's why when you go back, see some of the highlights of the 90s or the early 2000s, like all the famous guys were there. And I was like, yeah, I'll take my own family to Cancun. I'll go play golf. I don't want to come. And that's, the NBA All-Star game

still forces these guys to come, but they can't force them to play hard. And you didn't have to do that with the NHL guys. They just played. And that was a fucking brawl. I mean, those two brothers that started to fight, and they showed the video of their dad fighting

Claude Lemieux, whose daughter is married to a buddy of mine, Hunter Bishop, Claude Lemieux. So, her name's actually Claudia, Hunter, plays for the Giants, and the Bay Area guy.

But man, that hockey game, that made my weekend. Okay, let's end with this. Let's welcome everybody to chasing challenges. Brought to you by Microsoft and in the NFL, just like in the business world. Overcoming obstacles is the key to success. Microsoft empowers business decisions,

makers with AI solutions, simplified cloud and data management, and trustworthy, responsible technology to turn challenges into opportunities. In this segment, we explore some of the biggest challenges being faced in the NFL and how they can be overcome. Whatever challenge you're facing, Microsoft empowers you with the experts to say, bring it on. This week, we're discussing the challenges faced by teams like the Eagles.

When you win big and the Eagles just won the Super Bowl, you feel a dedicated. gratitude toward the guys that carried you there. And when you watch the Eagles down the stretch, their defensive line dominated. And Josh Schwett has been a key player for them for years. And Milton Williams was a draft pick for them who not only came on this season was dominant down the stretch of the year. And when you play defensive line, especially defensive tackle, and you hit free agency, you get a lot of money. A couple years ago, the Eagles had led the league in sacks, the year that they lost the chiefs in the Super Bowl. And when they hit free agency,

Javon Hargrave, got $80 million from the 49ers. And I think with you're the Eagles, and just like a lot of good teams in the NFL, the key to not only next week, but the next couple weeks leading into free agency is figuring out who can we live without?

Because when you have high-level players who are proven to be winning players and guys who can excel at the highest level, it's hard to let him go. And sometimes you think, well, we got to keep them. We have to match that money. We got to pay them early. And I think in this situation for good teams,

you've got to figure out, can we replace this guy? And at what cost will it take us to find a spot to get a player to equal 80% of his value? Can we get a guy that equals 80% of his value at a tenth of the cost? because we saw the 49ers last year. They made the Super Bowl, and Iyuk was their best wide receiver.

And they felt obligated to give him a bunch of money. Then he messed with them. And it was like, guys, you don't really run a passing offense. You're going to pay this guy $30 million a year. You're going to let him hold you over the barrel. And I think if they could do it over again, they would have traded him before the draft. And these are the tough decisions teams like the Eagles have to make,

not only with their free agents, with players on their roster. Like, who do we have to keep so we can continue? to win, but also keep financial flexibility. And that's why general managers make millions of dollars to make these decisions. You have to balance

not only your emotional tie toward the individual. These are guys you drafted. These are guys that you have been a huge part of developing over the years and believed in from the jump. And then they've turned into everything you want them to turn into. But are they worth the price

which you have to pay to keep them? And that's really what these next couple weeks are in the NFL. So that's it for this week's chasing challenges. Remember, Microsoft's AI solutions empower you to take bold steps and make informed decisions sparking new ideas to help drive your business forward. With Microsoft as your trusted partner, you can navigate your journey with confidence. Finding innovative solutions and reaching new possibilities.

Visit Microsoft.com slash challenges to learn more. Hey, it's us to Jonas Brothers. And guess what? We have some big news. What's the news? Huge news. we created our own podcast called Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast?

Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts throughout there. But this one's extra special. So how did we actually come up with a name Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it.

Well, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band before Jonas Brothers. This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast, people could call in and say, hey, Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast.

But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, Not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, S&L's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel,

help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Deanna Maria Riva, actress, mother, lover, and a Gen X woman walking through life one hot flash and hormonal crying jag at a time. You ladies know what I mean.

I'll bet you a perimenopausal chin here you do. So let's talk about it. Join me on my new podcast. How hard can it be with Deanna Maria Riva, where I call on my Gen X squads from Ohio to Hollywood as we navigate midlife's most fantastic BS. All of a sudden, I'd had hanginess happening on my own. I was like, what the hell is that? was married when I had her, so I didn't even consider how empty that nest was going to be. Mood swings, night sweats, fupas, sex drive. Wait, what sex? Dating at 45. How hard can it be? How can it be?

How can't be making? That one's kind of hard, you know? Well, that's lighting. They say we can't polish a turd, but we're sure going to try. So let's get blunt with laughs, tears, or tears of laughter, and dive into it, unfiltered and unbothered and ask, how hard can it be? I cannot believe I'm about to say this out loud in public. How Hard Can It Be with Deanna Maria Riva as part of My Cultura Podcast Network available on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano, and our podcast Point Game is about defining the odds. Like LeBron heading into the playoffs without Luca and Austin Reed.

And finding ways to win no matter what. He's the smartest player to ever play the game. His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before. And he knows. Without Luca and Austin Reeves, I got to manipulate the game. We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the playoffs. I think Joker's going to be exhausted this series because when they don't have Rudy in the lineup, he has to really guard guys like Nas Reid. He has to guard Julius Randall.

And then he has to give us everything he gives us on a night-to-night basis on offense. And when IT's friends stop by, like Quentin Richardson, we dive into some playoff history too. Steve Nash would get that thing. That man, hell get to fly. He running up the court, licking his fingers, why he got the ball like, I'll have to. You go through a training camp with that Isaiah, you figure it out real quick. Get your ass up and down the court, and you're going to get the ball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Okay, let's do a little thing we like to call the Middlecough mailbag at John Middlecough, at John Middlecough. Instagram, fire in those DMs. Get your questions answered here on the show. Very easy to get involved. Just fire in to those direct messages. Start with Andrew. Question for the bag. A lot of talk about the Chargers going out and bringing in a top receiver,

such as Tyreek, Devante, or T. Higgins, or even drafting in one in the first round. While this is important to address, the offensive and defensive line need to continue to be fortified. In Mike Lombardi's book, Gridiron Genius, he talks about how Bill Walsh always believed that a wide receiver is the last position you address. This was in relation to the Niners drafting Jerry

Rice in the mid-80s, feeling as though he was the last piece. And they had already won. I think they had already won two. So, you just have to look at the guy running the show. Jim Harbaugh is not some guy that is going to break the bank for a wide receiver or trade a lot in terms of draft capital for one of these guys. It's just not going to happen. To me, they will continue to build the line of scrimor.

and make their defense dominant. That doesn't mean he won't acquire offensive players. They drafted Ladd McCawkey, who's a stud in the second round. Like, to me, they will be all over a starting running back on the second day of the draft. That'll be something that interests them greatly. Do I picture them getting super aggressive and trading for Tyree Kill? I just do not. I saw something on the internet of, like, could they trade for Mark Andrews?

I think they're going to be smart about the skill position guys. That is not how Jim Harbaugh has played. When he's dominated with the Niners and when he won a national championship with Michigan, it was kicking your ass in the line of scrimmage. So I hear what you're saying, fortify the line of scrimmage. That is what Jim Harbaugh does believes in. So they don't need a tackle now,

but they need more defensive linemen. Like, you know, Bost is probably not going to be on the team. and Khalil Mack is a free agent. So I wouldn't be worried about them doing something stupid when it comes to skill guys. Not saying that they won't take swings, but they're not going to operate like your typical team. I've been listening since the Bengals Super Bowl. It's a while now.

How do you feel about the Bengals hiring Al Golden? I think he's going to be pretty good, but it's hard to imagine that he'll be a huge upgrade from Lou Anarumo. I had forgotten because I saw a close. clip of his press conference when he was hired. Or maybe it was like an interview that he did with, you know, some Bengals employees, like in the media department, was how he had coached. He was a linebacker coached there before he went to Notre Dame. So he's comfortable with Zach Taylor, the operation.

He clearly is a good defensive coach, right? I mean, he was a huge, huge part of the Notre Dame operation the last couple years. I mean, this year, they were a defensive team. The big reason they were in the national championship was Al Golden. So I remember him when I lived in Philly. He was the head coach at Temple. I know he's really well thought of, but I'm with you. Like, it felt like, I don't know, injuries,

letting guys walk out the door. Obviously, the defense early part of the season was atrocious in Cincinnati. I mean, it couldn't have been much worse. I mean, that one game where you blew, I mean, honestly, the difference of you being in the playoffs and you not being in the playoffs is the one loss to Baltimore where you blew two 10-point leads in the second, in the fourth quarter. That game alone, like you win that game, you win 10 games.

And the defense was bad. But like a couple years ago, everyone thought Lou was a really good defensive coach. And everyone gives, where do you end up going indie? Everyone thinks, oh, that's a great coach. That's a good hire by Shane Sykin and Chris Ballard. And I agree. I don't know, man. I think there aren't many good,

There are good offensive coaches that have guys overachieve, right? Like, Kevin O'Connell can make Sam Darnold look like a pro bowler. And maybe he is, maybe he's not, but like you get a lot of credit as an offensive coach. We've seen Kyle Shanahan do it with Garoppelow and Purdy. On defense, like Belichick became a legend coaching Lawrence Taylor. Dick LeBow coached all those dudes with the Steelers, right? You usually become a high-level defense. Think about some of the defensive guys that have been.

been hired over the last decade. I saw the Niners get two guys hired. Damiko and Sala. Well, why did they get hired? Their roster was loaded on defense. Loaded. When Vrable got hired from Houston to the Texans, it was viewed like this guy just knows what he's doing, even though I think the Texas is actually that year had a bad

statistically defensive year. So that might be a bad example. But my point is, you can't really be a good defensive coach unless you got dudes. It's usually not like, well, they had a bad. Middlecough and this other dude named Billy who was kind of shitty at Corner and they just they had the best past defense in the league like it's not usually the way it works. Usually the best defensive coordinators have sweet defensive players. I mean, look at Belichick even in New England with Flores and Patricia and Romeo Crenel.

I think how many awesome defensive players they had over the years. From Seymour to Wilfork to Teddy Bruske to Mike Vrable to Rodney Harrison to Junior Seow out when he was older to all the guys they had the last decade. Like you've got to have good defensive personnel. You can overcome it on offense with scheme. It's, you can only go so far with scheme on defense. Like it is a lot about how good the guys are. Big fan of the show.

Started a movie podcast a few years back. Any suggestions to grow listeners or just overall do's and don'ts on the industry? Also, what's an, underrated performance from an actor or actress in a movie. Thanks, John. Keep up the phenomenal work. Somehow I watched on YouTube recently. I watched a lot of mob content. So there was like this behind the scenes of the making of Goodfellas.

And you're just realizing like, now this isn't an underrated performance. But just how good De Niro, Leota, and Pesci were in that movie? It's like, I just don't think it gets any better. And it turns out they all were good friends. Like, the, the rapport they had on screen wasn't just because they were elite actors and they were. But just that they really, really got along. I'd have to think about, I really don't. You know the sad part is you get older?

I don't even have kids yet. I feel like I don't even watch that many movies anymore. And when I do, I find myself kind of disappointed. It's very rare that I watch a new movie. Did I go, that was good. Sometimes you just watch an old movie. You're like, that was sweet. I just want to relive this movie again.

And it used to happen more probably 20 years ago with DVDs. You would just pop in a DVD. And I've said this, the downfall of cable. The one good part about cable is you would just scroll and end up on random channels that I don't end up on anymore on YouTube TV. But I'm trying to think if I haven't really watched. I watched that many movies lately. I watched No Country for Old Men recently.

I mean, that was phenomenal. I think Josh Brolin is just an incredible actor. Sicario, that movie, he went on a heater there for a while. I would say, and the one, the dude Goggins, who's in the new

White Lotus. He was also in the Shield, which I think most people would argue is the greatest show ever produced by FX. And I've never watched it. Though I've been thinking about if I'm bored to start watching it because I've heard this is a good show Justified. He's also in that.

He's just good. He's in something I'm just going to watch. But I would say I'm not doing this by myself. I have the power of Collins distribution channel which it's been a huge part of the growth of the podcast over the last four or five years.

Obviously, YouTube is one area where you can get organic growth. It can just get you in front of people in terms of a search engine that other places cannot. I'm not on TikTok, not because I don't believe in its power. It's clearly huge. I only have so much bandwidth. I'm not even that active on social media as much anymore. I try to stay away just for, I just feel I'm better at my job and more present in my life

when I just not stuck on the phone. But I think like posting stuff on Twitter can only get you so far. And it's been like that for a long time now. Like you're not going to grow organically on Twitter. Instagram. I think by far the best thing to do is everything you do as a podcast, do it as well on YouTube.

Because that's an area where you get organic growth. I don't think anything else matches that. Maybe like LinkedIn, honestly. Twitter does not. Instagram does not. I can't even sign into Facebook if I wanted to. I've been locked out of that forever, and I can't speak to TikTok,

but I would say YouTube would be an area where you've got to get involved. The other thing is, and listen, I've done an independent podcast and had success and made some money, it is really, you can only go so far, and this is one thing I've learned as I've gotten older. Like, you need help.

So, like, you can only do. do so much on your own. So, I mean, try and put as much effort and consistency doing podcasts every day, pumping out as much content as you can. And getting new things out consistently is huge. But like that, you can be good at it and you can be consistent at it and you can hit Roblox and it can like it might not even be your own fault. It's just because you can.

you can't get in front of other people's eyes or their ears. And there's nothing you can really do about that on your own. You need help from someone else. So can you get even just a little known actor or people involved, a director, or anyone involved in the movie industry to come on? That would be a recommendation. I don't know if you don't know anyone in the movie industry,

but just start hitting them up on LinkedIn or DMs on Instagram and see if you can get them on as a guest. And maybe that leads to something. Mailback question. Do coaches sign NDAs? I don't know why we don't see more coaches talk about what's going on behind the scenes. For example, I don't think Robert Sala is a bad coach.

I think he went to a team with no quarterback and insane cuckoo order. Why would Sala not come into the press and essentially in a professional manner the Jets are insane and have terrible ownership? And then maybe open himself up to better job opportunities. The only thing I can think of is that he signed an NDA and can't say certain things in public. Well, all these people in the NFL are partners, right? So some owners are crazy.

Other owners are probably less crazy, but you can't be a billionaire in run an NFL team without just being some things that most humans are not going to relate to. I mean, the only people that can relate to each other in the little fraternity there are in are the other owners. So if you come out and just completely shit on, Woody Johnson.

Let's say Robert Sala had come out and did a tell-all with the athletic, like Mike Silver or Diana Rusini or whatever. Albert Breer, quote after quote after quote after quote. Where does that help him? Because if I was another owner, I'd go, listen, like, yeah, Woody's a little nuts, but what if I hired him and he doesn't like

what he's doing here and he starts doing that to me? And he starts outing all the dirty laundry in our building. So it gets back to Robert Sala and just people in general. And listen, I'd never signed an NDA when I work in the NFL. I've never heard of that. And I got buddies that are GMs and not saying it doesn't happen. I don't see what you get out of it. Right?

Like, what's the, like, we all get it. Like everyone acknowledges. And listen, is Robert Sala a good head coach or not? I think the jury would be out. Is the Jets a tough place to function? 100%. does Robert Sala get the majority of the blame for the Jets? No.

Rogers gets a lot. Woody Johnson gets a lot. So I would say that I just don't even think you need to. Like, what's to be gained? Because you want to continue to do business with the other people that are sitting in that guy's seat. And if they think that you might do to them what you did to him, I'm not paying you millions of dollars. So I think that's, it's like a calculated decision.

It's just not worth it. You know, I think a lot of people make those decisions when it comes to business. And you've had a scorned relationship with, and this is not even just football. I think a lot of people listening to this can relate. Is it worth it to make a stink over this? Or just like, I know what happened. People in my orbit know what happens, and we'll just move on. And I think there's a balancing act with that.

And there's so much money in the line when you're someone like Robert Saul. You're talking millions of dollars. I think the 49ers just made him like the highest paid coordinator in the league or one of them. He's making like four or five million dollars. So it's like, and he was interviewing with a bunch of other teams

to be their head coach, which I don't know if happens if he comes out and goes scorched earth on the Jets because it would scare other owners. So I really think it's more about all these guys have some similarities that way. And if you scare them off, like they're ultimately the ones with the money.

Like this is not, like Robert Sala can't just become some entrepreneur. If he wants to be a football coach, he has to work for owners. That is the shitty part about the business they're in, which there are a lot of good things, right? The money, the fame, a lot comes with it. But if you want to coach football,

especially in the pro level, you have to work for one of the 32 guys. That's your only options. If you want to do industry X, you pick it. You can go work for the biggest people in those industries, or you could try to do it on your own. Robert Sala cannot.

So I think that's a big reason. And listen, he's not alone. I mean, a lot of people go through crazy situations. But it's also why a lot of these stories that leaked about the Jets, like pretty clear where they're coming from. Do you think Jason Kelsey regrets retiring as early as he did and missing out on a Super Bowl ring?

Does it diminish what impact he had for the Eagles if they were able to win without him? Well, they replaced him with, you know, Landed Dickerson got a big contract. Now, he's a guard, but he can also play center. And Cam Juergens was drafted. Was he drafted in the second round, or was he drafted in the third? Cam Jurgens was drafted in the second round. So, I mean, and was a pro bowler this year.

I mean, the Eagles do a good job of drafting. They're probably one of the rare teams that could just have Fletcher, Cox and Kelsey retire and just have plug and play guys. And obviously, Jalen Carter at this point in time is better than Fletcher. You know, Kelsey's still pretty damn good. Kelsey said last year it was his body. It just didn't work. So do I think he would have retired if he thought his body could still function?

I do not. Because while he makes a lot of money from podcasting, if you could make $15, $20 million playing for a really good team, you would continue to do that. But he was just in a lot of pain. So I think the reason that he retired had nothing to do with, like, on the fence about are we going to be good or are we going to be bad? And just more had to do with my body. And I'm in a lot of pain. And can I play with my little kids?

And I think he talked about that last year. If you're Andrew Barry, the Browns GM, what's your order of importance? The number two draft pick, honoring Miles' trade request. what do you do with Deshawn Watson? Second mailback question. In your opinion, can you rank the top three to five positions on a football team in order?

Well, it's all about the draft selection number two in the middle of February is not as pressing of an issue as do we have to trade Miles Garrett? Right? can we make him an offer over the next week in front of his agent at the combine that he would accept

hey we'll give you $150 million guaranteed we don't want to trade you will you accept that offer if he says no I'm not going to take any of your money this is not about the money this is I don't want to play there anymore that has to become your number one option I did see some people saying could they package Deshawn Watson from Miles Garrett

I don't think that's an option. I think you're just kind of stuck with Deshawn Watson. I don't really think that's an issue. I just think you're stuck with him. So I think your only issues right now is what do we do with Miles Garrett? Do we trade him? And then if we do, then we start focusing on the draft. Sean Watson's on our team.

His Achilles doesn't work. And we just, nothing we can do. I think that's, I don't think he is a, he's a movable player. I would say quarterback, I would say tackle an edge, but it depends. Like, am I just getting a good edge player, or am I getting T.J. Watt or Miles Garrett?

Am I getting a good tackle, or am I getting Lane Johnson or Trent Williams? So, like, same thing with quarterback. If I get Trent Williams or Lane Johnson, or I'd get, like, the 18th best quarterback, it's all about where you need to pull the trigger. If you're talking about the draft, Right. But I think it goes. Quarterback clear number one.

2A and 2B are pass rusher and tackle. And I would have corner number three. Question for the mailbag. What developed your ability in understanding football? Were you a player in high school or college? I'm interested in your journey. Sorry if you've already answered this. Have you thought about adding an option to join your YouTube channel for a monthly fee?

I think there would be a lot of people that would support you and your fiancise. say. Yeah, I mean, this is, our monthly fee is the people we have associated with the podcast that pay a premium to advertise on the show. If I was going to do some monthly fee, it wouldn't be through the YouTube channel. But I hear what you're saying. I would say my understanding of football was developed of working in football. I mean, when I worked at Fresno State for two years, I worked in recruiting and I worked

with Pat Hill and Drew Hill. Well, Pat Hill had been a coach forever and had worked for Bill Belichick. So for a couple years, I think three or four years, he worked in Cleveland. With Bill Belichick, he was the assistant offensive line coach. The offensive line coach was Kirk Ferens. He drew the cards every day against Nick Sabin,

running their defense. And then obviously, when I got there in 08, he had ran a football program, which had produced a ton of NFL guys for a decade. And Drew Hill has now been the player personnel director at Oklahoma under Bob Stoops, Lincoln Riley, and now Brett Venables. So I got to learn football from them, and then I took that knowledge to the NFL,

and I got to learn from all the guys I worked with. Right? I mean, every day I worked with Howie and Louis Riddick and Brett Veach, Mike Bradway, who's on Vich's staff, to our coaching staff, which included guys like Doug Peterson, Matt Nagy, Todd Bowles, Howard Mud,

Sean McDermott. So I just got to be around all these guys and you just, what do you think you do in a football office? You talk to football. So you just, and then go into practice, being around players, you kind of learn. You just kind of learn. And you've watched football your whole life

and I still watch football. So all that stuff is kind of my base, how I learn football in my 20s. and then over the last decade, I've, my own thoughts on it. And then I just talk about it. So I guess that's long-winded way of saying, I was taught. You can't learn this stuff. You know, just by keeping your fingers crossed,

I had to learn from being around other people. And I was lucky to be around people that knew what they were doing. Big NFL fan here from Morocco, living in Dubai. I've always wanted to go to Dubai. I wonder if I could convince Maria if we can go there for honeymoon. I have a question regarding Kyle Shanahan. Is he on the hot seat now that Siriani and McVeigh won? Especially Siriani's team that beat the Chiefs.

49ers lost two Super Bowls to them. He gets tight every fourth quarter in the Super Bowl, and he lost, if you include the Atlanta one as well. I have struggled with that one. I've never heard of a coordinator who gets blamed for a Super Bowl loss, like he gets blamed. Like Pete Carroll gets lost, gets blamed for Russell Wilson

when he was not the offensive coordinator in that Super Bowl for them throwing on the goal line. They don't blame, I don't know who's their coordinator. Beville or Schottenheimer, you never hear, it's just Pete Carroll, Pete Carroll, Pete Carroll.

It's somehow Dan Quinn does not get blamed Kyle Shanahan does. But I hear what you're saying. I do think there's going to be tangible pressure on, I don't, I don't, blame anyone if they don't have it in front of them, and I don't even have it in front of me. But I do know that their schedule this year,

is a joke. We don't know exact dates, but the teams they're playing. They have a last play schedule. They play, I think the division plays the AFC South, which is obviously not good. So to me, anything less than like 11 or 12 wins for the 49ers is a complete disaster.

And anytime you're paying a guy, $15, $16, $17 million of year, head coach, there's a lot of pressure on him. So I don't think he's on the hot seat because who are you going to fire him for? But is there pressure on Kyle Shanahan? Fuck yeah, there is. And there should be. It's like, time to win.

How is Bo Nix any different from Mac Jones? I guess he is more mobile, but doesn't he have the same qualities, but way more support? I think Bo Nix is way more talented than Mac Jones. Mobility, I mean, he's dramatically more mobile. and I think he's got a better arm. You know, part of the Mac Jones, I would say package that I thought people were getting

when they drafted him, because his comp was like, a little bit more athletic, Kirk Cousins. It was like really serious guy. And it kind of came out like, yeah, I don't know if he's, like his character, not bad, but no one's comparing him

to like Tom Brady or Peyton Manning. I think that's really what he was going to hang his hat was like this super focused non-fuck-around guy totally coachable and like belichick had issues with him and they couldn't stand him toward the end so it's like wait you're not as talented and your intangibles aren't elite like that's one thing with bow nicks his intangibles are pretty high they're actually through the roof and i think he's just physically more gifted than mac jones uh excellent show I listen on Spotify. Can you put it out there

that the commanders need to focus on the O line for their team building this off season? Most people will overlook this and say the defense needs to improve because the offense did so well. But

there will absolutely be a regression next season when other defenses adjust to the Kingsbury game plan and discover Jalen's weaknesses and another regression when Kingsbury ultimately leaves if they do not shore up their O line. The O line needs to be the priority.

For God's sakes, do not let anyone say anything about team building with offensive skill positions. I think I read that you guys betting favorite to land Miles Garrett if he's traded. Yeah, listen, think about the team they're going up against. The team they're chasing in their division.

Well, even if sweat, Milton Williams leave, they're still going to have Nolan Smith, who's going to be a double-digit set guy. Jalen Carter, who's one of the best defensive linemen in the NFL. Who will Howie probably draft this year? Probably another defensive lineman. Who was one of the guys they drafted last year? I forget his name, but he was the guy that when Howie called him to say

the Eagles were picking him, called him Big Pimpin. I think that guy made some plays in the playoffs. He's a defensive tackle. So I hear you. If I have the quarterback, what did Harbaugh do for Justin Herbert, offensive lineman? And what did he say? They're the tip of the spear. So I'm totally with you.

I would draft O. Lyman and D. Lyman. If you told me they only draft O lineman and D lineman in this draft, I would say it was the right move. Question for the mailbag. How overstated is it when draft analysts say deep position groups mean some guys will fall later than their talent suggests. It feels like corner and interior D. Lyman were talked about that way last year, and there was a run on both

to start the second round. Feels to me like it will happen this year with running back. I think what they mean is is like if there wasn't depth at defensive tackle, right, if there were only three good defensive tackles,

all the defensive tackles would be gone in the top 15 picks. Well, instead, People go, well, there's going to be 10 defensive tackles. I'm going to take the offensive tackle or the offensive player or defensive end or whoever, just another position with the 11th pick knowing I can get that same position, maybe a little bit less of a player, but a guy that can start for me at pick 42, whatever the numbers come out to be.

I think that's more when they are describing the scenario in which you are describing, what they mean. But I hear you. No one actually knows besides the top couple picks who and where people are going to get drafted. No one has any clue. Right?

Because it doesn't... A GM or a coach doesn't help them at all to leak out to anybody, specifically the media, where and when they're going to take a player if they're drafting like sixth or eighth or eight.

or 12th or 15th, who they like. And when we find out who you like, good teams take advantage of it, because they jump you in the draft and they take that player if they want them. Just an observation, but over the last few years, it seems like defensive or CEO-type coaches

who focus more on culture and leadership are succeeding at a higher level than scheme guys and play caller types. Siriani, Campbell, Quinn, D'emiko, Todd Bowles have all won playoff games. while coaches like Dayball, Mike McDaniel, Kevin O'Connell, Arthur Smith,

Shane Steichen, have zero playoff wins and are already being fired. The NFL is full of smart coaches and leadership seems like the important quality in a coach. Why are these young, hot, offensive coordinator candidates always place to the top of the list for coaching vacancies? Are teams looking for wrong qualities? Well, think about it.

How is a coordinator do I judge your leadership ability? how it's unquantifiable now you can argue you know it when i meet you or when i'm around you but i don't have the ability to rank like go to a stats page and get a ranking where i can go to a stats page and go Shane Syken led the best offense ben Johnson led the best offense so-and-so led the best defense so-and-so has the best passing offense it's easy to quantify. Well, think who's interviewing them, an owner. What's an owner's background?

Typically business. Well, what are you doing business? Spreadsheets, numbers. It's very black and white. When you're dealing with coaches, especially CEO types, like, yeah, Mike Tomlin's got something no one else has. But how do I quantify that? And some people see it, some people don't.

So I just think it's really, complicated. I don't think there's I don't know, I just don't think there's a great answer to the reason why these guys are not hired all the time. And those guys fail as well.

You know, just because you're supposed to be the CEO head coach doesn't mean you're going to succeed. So I think it's like a draft pick. It is very, very difficult to figure out who's a good coach and who's not a good coach.

when they're an assistant. Right? Just because you're a great play caller does not mean that's going to translate to be a head coach. You use the example with Arthur Smith. Didn't translate. Shane Seichen, you know, this year,

he was overwhelmed to being a head coach. So I don't have a great answer for you besides it's really, really difficult. It is not easy. Siriani benefits a lot. His owner has no owner spends more money and he has the best GM in the league. Hey, it's us, the Jonas brothers.

And guess what? We have some big news. What's the news, name? Huge news. We created our own podcast called, Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it.

We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts throughout there. But this one's extra special. So how do we actually come up with a name, Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it. And, oh, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of, the early names of our band

before Jonas Brothers was... This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast, people could call in and say,

Hey, Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas

on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite.

Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, S&L's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes.

Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, family? Miss Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano and our podcast Point Game is about defying the odds. Like LeBron heading into the playoffs without Luca and Austin Reed.

And finding ways to win no matter what. He's the smartest player to ever play the game. His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before. And he knows without Luca and Austin Reeves, I got to manipulate the game. We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the playoffs. I think Joker's going to be exhausted this series because when they don't have Rudy in the lineup, he has to really guard guys like Nas Reid. He has to guard Julius Randall.

And then he has to give us everything he gives us on the night-to-night basis on offense. And when IT's friends stop by, like Quentin Richardson, we dive into some playoff history too. Steve Nass would get that thing. That man, hell get the flying. He running up the court, licking his fingers while he got the ball.

After you go through a training camp with that, Isaiah, you figure it out real quick. Get your ass up and down the court, and you're going to get the ball. So listen to Point Game on the, iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Deanna Maria Riva, actress, mother, lover, and a Gen X woman walking through life, one hot flash and hormonal crying jag at a time.

You ladies know what I mean. I'll bet you a paramedipausal chin here you do. So let's talk about it. Join me on my new podcast. How hard can it be with Deanna Maria Riva, where I call on my Gen X squads from Ohio to Hollywood as we navigate midlife's most fantastic BS. All of a sudden, I'd had hanginess happening on my own. I was like, what the hell is that?

I was married when I had her, so I didn't even consider how empty that nest was going to be. Mood swings, night sweats, fupas, sex drive. Wait, what sex? Dating at 45. How high can it be getting naked at 50 with the new guy? That one's kind of hard. Well, that's lighting. They say we can't polish a turd, but we're sure going to try.

So let's get blunt with laughs, tears, or tears of laughter, and dive into it unfiltered and unbothered and ask, how hard can it be? I cannot believe I'm about to say this out loud in public. Listen to How Hard Can It Be with Diana Maria Riva as part of my Cultura podcast network available on the IHart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Tyler from West Virginia, big fan. Avid golfer just broke 80 a couple times last year.

Congrats. Big accomplishment. I think the average golfer can't break 100. It's pretty obvious, big Packer fans, it's pretty obvious that they're a good team, but a few players away. just wondering what you would do if you were Goody when it comes to free agency in the draft. We clearly need a wide receiver,

pass rusher, maybe a corner depending on the Alexander situation. Do we bring Devante back? Drafts another young wide receiver. Do we take a big swing on Crosby or Garrett? What's you thinking? I would say historically you guys have been I wouldn't say against the big move, but it hasn't really been your M.O. as a franchise.

So trading for Crosby, trading for Garrett feels like things Sean McVeigh Rosed, the Niners like I have a hard time picturing

the Green Bay Packers actually doing that the Devante situation do you want to bring them back I don't know sometimes you know it's like

you guys broke up for a reason and I just think sometimes it's like it's over there's no reason to try to take her back out on a date It ended for the correct reasons.

You guys pivoted off Aaron, off Devante, and like, now is the business. Can you get them back for cheap? Does Devante think he's like a $20 million wide receiver? Will he play for like $5 million? If I were them, would I be all over Max Crosby or Miles Garrett? 100%. Could I see them doing that?

I don't know, man. I'd be stunned if the Packers... I think they're going to sniff around, but do I envision those players if they do get traded on that team? It doesn't seem likely. So you guys do a lot of things at the margins. You know, it's rare besides like Reggie White. You know, even when you got Charles Woodson,

I'm pretty sure he got him for really cheap. You know, he was coming off a weird year with the Raiders and like how many big free agents have you guys signed over the last, I don't know, 20 years? Doesn't seem like that many. maybe it changes with Goudicans and the floor, younger, a little bit more aggressive, but that's not really the way

the franchise has operated historically. Could the Tush Push become a special teams package for some teams? It's not like the Eagles surprise people with it. Why not dedicate a big wildcat group for the guaranteed short yardage play? Well, the bills tried it, and they have one of the strongest,

biggest quarterbacks in the NFL, and it didn't work. What makes the Eagles, is their quarterback can squat like 8 million pounds, and he can get really low. No one else can do that like they can. I don't love the play. I saw Jim Nance say he would be for them getting rid of the play.

I agree. I would get rid of the play. Or I wouldn't have a problem if they outlawed the play. But I also don't have a problem like they play within the letter of the law and they have a unique player to run the play. No one else has that. No one does. Do you think you're going to run that with like Bryce Young?

Even when the Ravens were running it with Mark Andrews, he gets high. It's just a unique thing they can do because of Jalen. When evaluating college players post-NIL, how important is it to take into account how they spend their money? Would you be more inclined to draft a guy who's less flashy with the spending? I don't... I had a buddy tell me this year that when you go into college parking lots, they look like his NFL teams

with just I mean six figure cars everywhere brand new even the average cars are like a new escalate or Tahoe or truck did these guys just be because they spend

who spends their money well at 20 21 years old like how many guys are you meeting like yeah just invested everything in a in a SIP IRA bought three multi-units It's like a ton of NFL guys are buying multiple Lamborghinis. It's like in like 17 watches. It's like, yeah, I don't know if those are the greatest purchases.

I think it matters more. His football character, how much he loves a sport, how hard he works. You give any human being a lot of money at 19, 20, 21, 22 years old, college or pro, they're going to buy some things they regret 10 years later. 99% of that. men wouldn't be like, you know, I nailed everything. Just great investor. It's like, yeah, I regret some of those. So I, I don't think it matters. I really don't. Unless you're like buying nefarious things, things that get you in trouble. But if you're just making purchases that,

and who deems that, like who gets to pick and choose what's a smart buy and what's not a smart buy? I think you kind of get into a slippery slope that way. As a diet, as a diet, heart's Titans fan, I'm stuck on deciding who I want to get. If you were the Titans brand new front office, what the hell are you going to do with the first pick? Trade down? I'd take Abdul Carter. Period, point blank, end of story. Abdul Carter. Here's the, here's the, uh, here you go, Raj. Here's the card. Say it out loud. Abdul Carter. I believe the gap between Trevor Lawrence's talent and how good he actually is is wider than any quarterback in the league. He clearly has the potential to be better than he is.

And I know you've mentioned this before, but do you really think it comes down to work ethic and lack of love of the game? For me as a football fan, or even if I was his coach, that would drive me nuts. I would rather root for someone or coach someone who sucks but loves the game. That is not true. Well, one, you can't suck and get to the NFL. But on the talent, you know, I always,

say scale. If a guy has no talent, but he's like Rudy Rudiger, you have no chance to win in college or in the NFL. So there has to be some balance. I don't know enough about him if he truly doesn't love football. You know, Doug Peterson, who's a lifetime backup, position coach, head coach. I remember talking about the Combine last year who loves him. I just don't think he's that good.

So that's where I kind of disagree. I don't think he's that accurate. I don't think he's that instinctive. I think he turns the ball over at a rapid rate. I don't know. I just think that I disagree on the talent gap. I don't see this guy that's just oozing with talent. It's like, God, this guy is, you know, could be Patrick Mahomes or Josh Allen.

I don't see that when I watch the guy. Now, could it be better than he's playing? Of course. but when you watch him play over the last couple years, do you go, yeah, this is a guy that could be a top five quarterback? I don't see that. No, I can't speak to, I don't think he's like showing up late. But does he eat, like, does it mean everything to him deep down to his soul?

Because that's what it means to Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson, to Patrick Mahomes, to Peyton Manning, to Tom Brady, to Drew Breeze. God, I got a lot of questions here. I'm bummed the Eagles lost Kellan Moore But as you've said This is the problem with Nick Siriani I've seen chatter that the Eagles should hire Frank

Reich He's not being pursued by other teams as a head coach But could bring stability to the OC position for Philly Yeah, I don't see that happening I think they're going to end up Elevating That dude Kevin on the staff Seems like what the buzz is

And maybe they bring in Frank Because that's Siriani's guy But I don't think Siriani is be the offensive coordinator. Or excuse me, Frank's going to be the offensive coordinator. I haven't seen that anywhere, but I might not be as deep on the Eagles message boards as you are. I would not do that. I would not hire Frank to be my offensive coordinator.

No chance. What would the Falcons need to give up for Miles Garrett? Cousins would be an obvious piece to me, but what else would need to go with him? Well, to me, Cousins, he's not tradable player because of his contract. So the Browns are not going to trade you Miles Garrett and take back his contract. They would just let you cut Kurt Cousins

and then sign them for a couple million bucks. $5 million, $10 million. I do not see the Browns trading for Cousins. I think that would be insane. I think to get Miles Garrett, if you're the Browns, you cannot accept anything less. the starting point is two ones and a two.

It's a starting point. I would like more as well. But I do not think you can trade him for anything less than multiple ones. He's one of the best players in decades, like just talent-wise, production-wise. He's just an elite player at an elite position. So I just think it costs a shitload.

And he's so good that even when you're getting offered a lot, you keep saying no one hanging up. Okay, last question. I know you're not a big fan of the Falcons front office, but I have a Falcons question for you. What do you think of Obrick as the defensive coordinator? The Falcons D has been a bottom feeder since we fired Quinn. Even when we take swings on players that are successful with other teams,

Judon, Simmons, etc., their play drops off when they get to Atlanta. The only explanation for that is coaching. Pennick seems like he's going to be a top player and we already have a good offensive line. They need to take a page out of the Chief's playbook and build a strong defense. Yeah, I mean, I remember last year when Kyle Shanahan was looking for a defensive coordinator,

he tried to hire him, and Sala kept him. I think he's always been highly thought of. Obviously, the Jets defense was really good when he was the defensive coordinator before Sala got fired, he was elevated the interim coach. I followed his careers since he was a player with the Niners, and then he became an assistant coach for Jim Mora on the UCLA staff.

I've always been impressed with the guy, but I hear you. I mean, the one downfall of the Falcons is like, have you guys drafted that well? You guys just did some weird things recently, right? The Kyle Pitts thing blew up in your face. He's never come close to living up to a top five pick.

The cousin's contract last year was a disaster. Obviously, if they could do it over again, they just would have given all that money to defensive players like Christian Wilkins and just drafted Pennix in the first round and signed like a Gardner Minchu. I think they've just been an erratic organization, no way around it. Just a very, very erratic organization when it comes to player personnel. And they've been desperate for the quarterback situation post the end of Matt Ryan. They just feel like an organization that's kind of lost.

from my perspective. Just an organization that doesn't really know what they're doing. A lot of different opinions, not necessarily a shared vision, just kind of living in the moment and get a lot of average to below average results because of it. I mean, let's face it, this year is pretty embarrassing. The way everyone anointed them,

the way they anointed themselves, and then the Buccaneers win the division. They didn't even make the playoffs. So got a lot of soul searching to do, but I hear you. They need to be good on, defense. You have no chance to be a good team in the NFL if your defense isn't solid. And he can't rush the passer. When's the last time they could rush the passer? John Abraham? It's been a long,

long time. Appreciate everyone listening. Adios. The volume. Hey guys, it's us. The Jonas brothers. I'm Joe. I'm Kevin. And I'm Nick. And guess what? We created our own podcast called, Hey, Jonas. We invented a podcast. Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. We get to ask other people questions we're sick and tired of being asked questions. Well, sick and tired is a strong way to put it, but, you know, tired and sick. Tired and sick.

Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smigel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier.

This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel. help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano. It's our favorite time of the year on our podcast point game, the playoffs. We're digging into the biggest surprises of the season. And I'm looking back on some of my greatest playoff moments. If we didn't talk ever again, I was hiring. You just understood. That's how personal it got.

Wow. Then after that game seven, Marquis come in to you. He's like, you know, I love you, dog. You know, it's all love. This was just playoffs. This was just basketball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Will Ferrell's Big Money Players and IHart Podcast presents soccer moms.

So I'm Leanne. Yeah. This is my best friend, Janet. Hey. And we have been joined at the hip since high school. Absolutely. A redacted amount of years later, we're still joined at the hip. Just a little bit.

bigger hips. This is a podcast we're recording it as we tailgate our youth soccer games in the back of my Honda Odyssey with all the snacks and drinks. Why did you get hard seltzer instead of beer? They hit a bogo. Well, then you got them. Listen to soccer moms on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.