The Herd with Colin Cowherd - 3 & Out - The Draft, Teams approach heading into the draft, Players mindset on draft day

Episode Date: April 24, 2025

It's Draft Day and John dives into what the mindset of GM's and head coaches are heading into the draft. John talks about how this draft seems to not have the talent as other drafts may have had and how that changes how teams approach their picks. John also talks about the pressure from a player standpoint as they wait to hear their name called and how it can mess with your head if you slip in the draft. Next, John talks about some of the stories that he finds the most interesting heading into the draft. Lastly, John answers your questions in this episode's mailbag segments. 4:54 - The Draft 22:48 - Interesting stories heading into the draft 28:57 - Microsoft 36:09 - Mailbag Follow John on Twitter, Instagram and YouTube for the latest. Check out Gametime - the fastest growing ticketing app in the US, and the official ticketing app of 3 & Out and GoLow -  for tickets to all of your favorite NFL, NBA, NHL, NCAA teams. Concert and comedy show tickets, too. Go to Gametime now to create an account, download the app and use code JOHN for $20 off your first purchase. #Volume #HerdSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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It's finally here. The NFL, the draft is today. Woohoo! Fired up, man. I really am. So I did want to dive in to just some big picture thoughts. on tonight, on the way that I view it, on something that, you know,

you're going to see a lot of over the next couple days, disappointment and why I think you have to look at the glass half full when it comes to being selected, even if it's not where you want to go as a player. Some of my big stories coming into tonight, what I'm most excited to see play out, and then we're going to do a rapid fire mailbag because obviously some of these questions are going to be,

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It still, I kind of get a, you know, it makes me feel like a kid again right around this time. It's got a little bit of a Christmas feel to it. I love the excitement that fans get for their individual teams. I mean, there's nothing more powerful. You could argue in the world than the power of hope and the belief that something is going to create a positive, change and we are disappointed often, but every once in a while, the draft changes the team's

fortunes for a long period of time. And the best part about it is it could be a fifth round pick. It could be a third round pick. It's not obviously always your first round pick that is the guy that helps turn around your franchise, that becomes the best player on your team, that becomes one of the best players in the NFL. And it's why, to me, one of the most important guiding principles as I have when discussing the draft, it's an economic exercise. And obviously, you are trying to pick talented players, but the best general managers and the best front offices

know how to balance the ability to pay the right price for the asset. And that's what you're doing. This basically becomes the stock market. Supply and demand. It's why I've taken a lot of heat and a lot of people thought I was nuts that I'm being critical. of Ashton Genty. But I simply look at it like an economic equation.

If there are, depending on the teams you talk to, eight to ten guys that are going to be starters in the NFL at running back, and some teams think that there are going to be four or five high-end starters at that position. Even if you value Genty as the number one running back in the class, which I would imagine that is, I don't know if it's universal, but probably 90, 95% of teams have him ranked as the number one guy. If you're the Jacksonville Jaguars, if you're the Vegas Raiders and you're drafting fifth or six, you could easily take them and no one will complain and you'll get an A on your draft grade and fans will be really excited.

But are you better off using that capital, which is very valuable capital, a fifth, sixth, seventh, whatever, in the top ten, on a position that historically gets harder and harder to draft as we go through the rounds. Offensive lineman, defensive lineman, and use your second round pick or your third round pick on that position, where historically you're able to find a ton of starters at running back in the later rounds. But specifically in this draft, that it's basically an objective opinion, and no one's arguing with anyone going, it's loaded at that position, making a decision going, you know what, we're going to get that guy later. I say it all the time with wide receivers.

That D.K. McCaff, A.J. Brown, Terry McClearn, a lot of guys get drafted in the second, third, fourth round. Go on to be pro-bow level players. So you can use a pick if you have a top 15 pick, even if you need a wide receiver. Get that guy in the second or third or the fourth round. Hell, take two wide receivers over the course of your entire draft. And listen, I was around Howie Roseman, and I would say no one is. better at navigating the landscape of knowing what do I have to pay for the guy? And when it comes to the draft, that's based on draft picks.

So if I have the 10th pick and I really, really like a guy, if I have the opportunity to go from 10 to 17, can I still get the same player that I would have taken at 10? No one knows, but it is the general manager's job to have a pretty good idea of go, Yeah, I think we got an 80% chance of going to 17 and getting that player. And even if we don't get that player, there are two other guys that we would highly consider taking at pick 10, that we would love to take at 17 while also adding maybe a third round pick. It's why when people push back on my Genti arguments, which again, I am pro Ashen Genti,

excellent player. I just couldn't take them in the top 10. Not when I know that there are a ton of other guys at that position, I could easily draft in the top 100 that can start for me at running back. While I also get a high-end defensive lineman, a high-end offensive lineman, which we just learned by Howie Roseman is the way to build a championship team, dominate in the trenches. It was ultimately the downfall of the Kansas City Chiefs, the reason that they didn't win three straight Super Bowls, which easily could have happened, but they couldn't block anybody.

and it's difficult to find starting offensive tackles in the third and fourth round. Doesn't mean you can't, but more than likely, you won't. And I think when you look at this draft, you have to understand that it's going to be tough to trade. So I'm not crushing any team that takes a guy. It's like, that guy was overdrafted. Well, we would love to move back six or seven spots. No one would make a trade with us. But I also think teams that don't understand the value of players,

and this became the downfall of Bill Belichick in the last couple years of his run in New England, as he was taking guys in the second or third round that he could have gotten a fifth or six. And that's on him as the general manager to understand the value of these individuals. And some teams don't like their scouts or their front office, including coaches when they do these evaluations, to put grades in terms of what round the guy is going to get drafted on. I've always thought that was kind of stupid. That's the whole exercise that we're doing is like,

is this guy a third round pick or is he a first round pick? Because if he's a guy that we can get in the third round that most teams are going to view that way, we would be insane to use pick 22 on this player. When even if we wanted to quote unquote overdraft, overpay, take them in the second round and add another, player in the first round instead of wasting all that capital on a guy that is not worth that relative to the NFL.

And I also think another thing smart teams will do is understanding the future draft. So this draft is widely considered, not a great one. I think Diana Rusini had a quote today from a coach that there aren't a lot of Robert De Niro's in this draft, aka not a lot of stars. so when there aren't a lot of stars and it's not a powerful draft it doesn't mean that these guys aren't going to be excellent players we'll get into that in a second

what it does mean is based on their college performances a lot of people don't see superstar potential in a lot of players some years it's like and we've talked about this over the last couple weeks that in a good draft you should have over 20 guys graded as first round picks it's very very difficult to get

30 to 35 players in a draft that most teams are going to have created as first round picks. Some years, they'll be 15, some years they'll be 20. In a really good draft, they'll be 23, 24 guys. I think it's fair to assume that in this draft, some teams might have it in single digits. It doesn't mean that they don't like other players that will get drafted in the first round.

They will just have those guys valued. If it was last year, yeah, take that guy at 38, don't love them at 18. And it's on the GM to understand this. And if you ever get the opportunity, especially teams that need quarterbacks, to make a trade on a future first-round pick, that can change your franchise. Now, it's on you to then nail the pick. The Giants a couple years ago from the Chicago Bears,

got a future first-round pick to go from 11 to 20. Remember the one year, Howie Roseman had all those first-round picks, and it was in a good draft, and he was able to accumulate picks and trade for A.J. Brown and end up moving up for Jalen Carter. like the more assets you have, the more flexibility you are given on a yearly basis. And I'm always fascinated by the teams who are best at maneuvering up and down. And the ones that are and understand the value of the players typically are the teams that consistently win.

The other thing. And I think this resonates with any human being. where you start in life, whether that's where you grow up, whether that's where you go to school, whether that's your first job, does not determine the success for the rest of your life. Obviously, there are situations if you go to a private school growing up, if you go to a good college, if you are given a great job out of college because of someone you know, it can set you up on the right path. but then for most people, including athletes, just because you're the number one overall pick,

that does not guarantee you a goddamn thing. And there are going to be a ton of players over the next seven rounds of this draft, but specifically after the first round, moving its way toward day three, who are going to be devastated. It really sucks getting drafted in the fourth round when you thought you could go in the second round.

When you end up going in the second round, and you're like, I wanted to be a first round pick. But at the end of the day, it is on you once training camp happens, once OTAs happen, obviously once the season happens, and moving forward to separate yourself. And the best part about football,

more than all the other sports, baseball a little bit because of the minor leagues, but definitely different than basketball, that every year we see an undrafted free agent, multiple undrafted free agents, not only make NFL teams, I think on average, an undrafted free agent makes every team. The bad teams typically sometimes have like three or four guys make the team.

Well, they're making the team typically because they're beating out guys who were just drafted. Who guys that were drafted in the fourth, fifth, sixth round, not even just in this immediate draft, but maybe last year a draft that spent time on the practice squad. And while it's cliche and people laugh at it, you're either getting better or worse. No one stays the same. and that video that went viral for a long, long time and still a meme of Tom Brady with a long hair talking to Steve Sable at NFL films

crying about how difficult draft day was because he went on a walk with his dad he didn't get drafted the sixth round. I saw a clip the other day from Brian Branch, the star kind of safety nickel, do it all DB for the Detroit Lions, who played at Alabama, who said draft night was one of the worst night

of his professional and football career. I thought he was a first round pick. I thought he was like a first round lock. He ended up not going till pick 45. And now several years later in the NFL, he's widely considered one of the Swiss Army nice of defensive football and one of the better players on one of the better teams in the league.

And I think sometimes when you fall, Lamar Jackson fell. Hell, the Ravens took another guy in the first round before they even selected Lamar Jackson. I'd say it worked out pretty well for him. Look at Baker, Mayfield and Sam Darnold. While both of them are making a lot of money now, they didn't exactly benefit from going to the Cleveland Browns

and the New York Jets. And ultimately, their early failures and turbulent starts did not end their careers. Now, I will never argue that starting out, being of the seventh overall pick, is better than being the 77th overall pick, especially financially. You are guaranteed a ton of money. You are given a four-year guaranteed contract.

The pressure on the organization and the coaching staff for using that valuable asset on you forces them to give you more opportunities. And that branding of being a top pick, especially a top 10, top 15 pick, stays with you even after it should be irrelevant. Four or five, six years later. It's like, well, this guy was a really high pick and we liked him coming out. Well, yeah, have you seen him play?

He stinks. It happens all the time. Hell, Daniel Jones just got $15 million from the Indianapolis Colts. If Daniel Jones hadn't been the six overall pick and had been the 166 pick, probably doesn't go that way. Trey Lance is a good example.

I thought he'd be out of the league, but he was a top five pick. And even Jim Harbaugh and the Chargers gave him $1.5 million guaranteed this year to compete for the backup quarterback job. If he had been a six-round pick, that's not happening. So getting drafted high does stay with you and present more opportunities. But just because opportunities are presented, it doesn't mean a goddamn thing. and the amount that the league is full of George Kittles and Max Crosby's and guys that are drafted on the third day of the draft

on every team that are some of the best players in the league some of the highest paid players in the league. Hell, guys that are drafted at the end of the first round that are the sixth, seventh guy at their own position on Thursday night go on to be the best individual at that position in their draft. Happens every year, if not every other year. And the thing that I admire most about this sport is how difficult it is, how hard it is,

mentally, physically, how much goes into this being successful. And obviously tomorrow night and over the next couple nights are really cool and all these teams add all these players. But then once practice starts, they don't even necessarily start at the same spot. because when you're a first and second round pick, you are more likely to get the opportunity to run with the ones. At minimum, you're running with the twos. But over the course of the next 12 months, 24 months,

if you do not perform, if you do not play well, if you do not make place, if you do not know what you're doing, and other guys do, you will get lapped. Because the nature of this sport, the amount of guys that get injured, the cycling of backup, and practice squatters, getting opportunities over the course of the season, isn't potentially

going to happen. It's a guaranteed outcome. Guys end up playing. And when you end up playing, the film is your resume. And that's how people that like, oh, how did this guy, not in a million years, did anyone think when Brock Purdy was the last pick in the draft, he would be the starting quarterback for the Niners as a rookie in the playoffs. but then one guy breaks his ankle, another guy breaks his foot, and all of a sudden he's starting. Then all of a sudden he's doing good.

Then several years later, he's in negotiations for a contract somewhere between probably $125 and $190 million guaranteed. Obviously, that's a big difference, but we're talking an astronomical amount of money for a guy that was the last pick in the draft just a couple years ago. and he's an example I use because he plays quarterback, but there are examples like him all over the place. The Eagles starting left tackle had never played NFL football, came from Australia. Several years later, Jeff Stoutland coaches him up, Jason Peters is gone,

and now he's one of the best left tackles in the league. And all the paths, all of our paths, to get wherever we're going, are never going to be the same. My path is different than your path is different than the next guy's path. But we control a decent amount of it. And it's easy to get down

when shit doesn't go our way, just like it is easy to pout if you get drafted in the fourth round and you go, shit, I think I'm better than like 80% of the guys at my position that just got drafted over me over the last three rounds. This is insane.

I had to fall 50 picks. The end of the day, it was out of your control where you ended up going. And who cares? When that ball, if you're a running back, gets handed off to you, go make some plays and you'll be fine. If you're a wide receiver, get open.

The ball will come your way. If you're a linebacker, go make some freaking tackles. And when you do, you'll be rewarded for it because you'll play. And then all of a sudden, we'll look back and be like, God, the guy was drafted in the fifth round.

He had an 11-year career. And three guys at his position were drafting the first and second round. They didn't even make it five years. Because the average lifespan of an NFL player is like a little over three years. And we see it all the time. That factors in first round picks as well. So buckle up.

Obviously, it's a huge story. Who falls? Who doesn't? But I'm fascinated by what happens going forward, not what happened based on the past. And that's all the draft is. It's you're drafted based on what you've done. Once you get drafted, no one gives a shit anymore. I did want to hit on a couple things that I'm most fascinated on going moving forward over the next couple nights.

The stories to me that are by far, like, I find the most interesting. And I don't even think it's debatable. The number one story in this draft. And listen, after a while, you get tired of talking about it, but then the draft comes like, where's your Sanders going to go? Are all these teams that need a quarterback, the Browns, the Giants, the Steelers, just 100% not going to draft a quarterback in the first round. Even if they don't draft a quarterback,

especially the Browns and the Giants, really high in the draft, do either of them trade back up? Do they like quarterbacks other than Chidor Sanders or Jackson Dart? Are we sure that is only one quarterback going to go in the first round? Are those two guys going to go with Cam Ward as well? How many guys are going to go in the first three rounds?

like Kyle McCord, the Louisville quarterback who's older than Brock Purdy, Will Howard, Riley Leonard, all these quarterbacks that we watched play in college this year and have a lot of success. Are any of them getting drafted in the second or third round? Because we have seen, in recent memory, a lot of guys that get drafted in the second and third round, either become immediate starters or become a starter after a year or two and have a long career. Listen, quarterbacks are always going to drive the draft. This one has a little bit less sizzle, but there are a lot of names,

and there are some marquee teams. I mean, in theory, the Giants are one of the biggest brands in all of the NFL. And they have been terrible, atrocious for over a decade. I mean, really, really bad. I mean, back-to-back years, them drafting really high. That ain't good, especially in a division where the Eagles just won the Super Bowl, and they've been in the playoffs three straight years, two of the last three years in the Super Bowl.

The Cowboys had a stretch where they won three straight years of 12 plus games, and they had an awful year this year, and they're drafting 12, and the commanders, who have kind of been one of the running jokes of the league, just made the conference championship. And I would say if they were a stock, everyone would invest in them.

So I'm fascinated to watch what the Giants do at quarterback. I'd be a little stunned if they don't take a guy with their first couple picks, but, you know, who knows? And listen, you guys know where I stand on the running back situation, but just because I don't necessarily believe it's the right thing to do, doesn't mean it's not going to happen.

So is Ashton Jentia? I saw a headline today. Jags, they're leaning offense. Would they take Ashen Jenty? Once upon a time, they took a running back really high. It's safe to say they regretted it pretty quick. And that guy's name was Leonard Fournett, who was the number one running back prospect in high school football,

went to LSU, became a stud. Now, I'll never forget the game that he had against Alabama, got exposed a little bit, but did not live up to the hype. And Ashen Genti, who's coming from a much smaller school, would they do that? Would the Patriots entertain him at four? I have a hard time seeing Vrable, who former player, high-level player, massive dude,

whose success as a coach happened with just a massive blue chip running back. Everyone's like, why do you keep talking about his height? I don't know, because it'd be difficult for me to draft a 5-8 guy in the top 5. Call me crazy. You know, call me alone. But I just, I think that's nuts. But I'm prepared for him to go really, really high. And fascinated to watch how that goes down.

Makes Brad Holmes, if he does go, pick 4, 5, 6, 7, whenever. Look like a genius for not only getting a awesome running back at pick 12, but accumulating another pick and getting Leporta essentially became a two-for-one. So where does Ashen-Gente go? And, yeah, I mean, I think he will immediately be one of the more fascinating guys from this draft moving forward.

And then I just think from a big picture standpoint, how many famous veteran players get traded? I think it starts with Jalen Ramsey. He is, do you want him? Come get him. Tyree Kill. Is Tyree Kill going to get traded over the next couple days? would anyone trade for him,

given some of the stuff that's going on off the field with him? Obviously, the two kind of famous tight ends, they're not even hiding their teams. Dallas Goddard, Mark Andrews, are one of these guys, are both of them going to get dealt? I think it's pretty clear

that teams that like Tyler Warren and teams that like Loveland from Michigan, if you don't land one of those guys and you're not comfortable with other guys in this draft, would you pull the trigger and trade from one of these guys? because I think there's a decent chance that by the end of the weekend, both these two tight ends are on other teams. And obviously, there are a bunch of other names that maybe we don't see coming

that are going to get dealt. And I think when you look at quarterback, obviously Aaron Rogers is a free agent. Is Kirk Cousins going to get traded over the next couple days? Because you got to give him some credit. Everyone's like, well, he's not going to show up to OTAs. Even Rahim Morris was like, we don't expect him to be there. And Kirk Cousins is like, screw you. I'll be there.

Yeah, I'm a high-level cat. I can handle a little controversy. See you there. Tuesday he was there. And is he just trying to act in good faith, trying to show the league to like, listen, I'm a total team guy. If I got to be the backup for $27.5 million,

I'll be the highest paid backup in the history of the league. Obviously, we have seen starters get bench that made a lot of money. But we've never seen a backup going into OTAs that makes almost $30 million. So would the Falcons, trade them if someone is not willing to eat any of the money. Are they adamant that someone's got to eat $10 million and essentially get cousins on like a one-year $10 million contract?

But a lot of these big-name guys and a lot of famous players, now just because you're famous doesn't mean you can play anymore, are going to get traded over the next couple of days. Okay, before we get out of here, I got to welcome you to chasing challenges. Brought to you by Microsoft. In the NFL, just like in the business world, overcoming obstacles is key to success. Microsoft empowers business decision makers with AI solutions, simplified cloud and data management,

and trustworthy responsible technology to turn challenges and opportunities. In this segment, we will explore some of the biggest challenges being faced in the NFL in how they can be overcome. Whatever the challenge you're facing, Microsoft empowers you with the expertise to say, bring it on. This week we're discussing the challenge faced by all these NFL teams. drafting is hard. It's not an exact size because you're dealing with human beings.

I saw this quote from Kyle Shanahan that I thought kind of summed up why this thing is so difficult. And all these teams are wrestling right now with how do we balance this guy's talent with this guy the person? Because at the end of the day, you are not drafting the player just on the field. You're drafting the human being in your building. Here was a quote from Kyle Shanahan from my guy, Matt Barrow's article in The Athletic. There are some guys who are rough around the edges, Shanahan said,

but they work their asses off and football is everything. You just put them around the right type guys and they'll thrive because they love football. If they're talented and there are some issues and they don't love football, it never works out. I think that sums it all up. And all these teams are trying to get to the bottom

of all these players, how much do you love football? How much do you love this sport? Are you just doing it for the money? Are you just doing it for the fame? Are you just doing it because God gave you these great gifts that most people don't have? And that has enabled you to play college football at a high level. Because if that's the reason, not because you love everything that the sports about, the practice, the grind, the lifting, the film preparation.

You practice way more than you play. most guys in the NFL bust and don't work out not because they don't have the ability most guys they're going to be drafted not just in the first round but all the way through the fourth fifth sixth seventh round have special physical attributes

awesome characteristics that translate to the NFL but do they have the intangibles the toughness the mental fortitude the love of this profession that they're now being drafted into. Some guys do, and they will go on

to be some of the best players in the league. And the guys that don't will get exposed really, really quick. That's it for this week's chasing challenges. Remember, Microsoft's AI Solutions empowers you to take bold steps and make informed decisions, sparking new ideas to help drive your business forward.

With Microsoft, as your trusted partner, you navigate your journey with confidence, finding innovative solutions and reaching new possibilities. Visit Microsoft.com slash challengers to learn more. The NBA 82 game grind is done, and now the real fun begins. The NBA playoffs are here and it's time for the high stakes drama. Clutch moments and jaw dropping plays. Can't wait.

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Hey, it's us, the Jonas Brothers, and guess what? We have some big news. What's the news, new? huge news. We created our own podcast called Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast. Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts. We're starting a trend. But this one's extra special. So how do we actually come up with a name Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it. Oh, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band before Jonas.

brothers. This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast, where people could call in and say, hey, Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast.

But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy. Not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, S&L's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel,

help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to my new podcast. Learn the hard way.

with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of Mental Health Awareness Month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it.

And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth, or are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely.

And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, is we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, learn the hard way. Open your free, our heart radio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. Last night, a blown call changed a game.

This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear.

The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. SportsSlice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to Sports Slice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slic Life 12 and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Okay, let's do a little quick middle cop mailbag. We're going to have to go draft Rapid Firestyle because

This is not going to have that big of a shelf life, obviously with the draft literally today. So I'm not going to... I'll try to be quicker than normal. We'll start with Reid. Sanders, draft odds have gone from over under pick eight and a half, Saints 9, I think, to over 10021.5. Curious about your thoughts on his possible slide, the Pellasaro article didn't help. I would say by April 23rd is when the Pelisoral article came out, so the day before the draft. I didn't read it.

I honestly, I didn't even know there was an article today. Nothing in that article. I guess I did see a headline by pro football talk about negative talk, about whatever. There is nothing that a team that was interested in drafting, Shador Sanders, did not know reading in that article. And if there was, then the team's clueless. But I think it's fair to say that any team that was very interested in Shador, there's nothing they're learning from an article the week of the draft.

So it's more about the landscape of teams not drafting them high, not because of anything, you know, written in an article. But I hear what you're saying. I also think that, I don't know. I can't speak to the betting markets in terms of draft selection, what could significantly change, but I do not think it's an article. Could be wrong.

I'm not saying I'm 100% know that, but I don't think it. What do you think of giving players at the draft a chance to skip a team or two? As a rookie, you have no say in what team you would like to join. Only top college players, they go to the worst teams in the NFL, and sometimes their careers are dying there. Hear what you're saying. This is kind of like, it's a little different, but similar vein of the lottery with the draft.

Obviously, this is more like a bold step. I just don't think the NFL is that interested in messing with the lottery odds, situations like I don't have to go play there, not because my dad doesn't want me to go there like Arch and Eli, but because I have this card that I can pull. like don't want to play for Jacksonville, I'd rather go to Vegas. Like that, they're never doing that. A big Charger fan and big Middilcoff fan.

I like this guy. With that being said, who do you think the Chargers will should take their first and second round picks? I'm hoping for Loveland and Trayvon Henderson. If you ended up with a sweet tight end and a sweet running back, that'd be pretty good. I do think the Chiefs brought in Henderson. I forget, I saw a headline whether they had a call. call with them or they flew them to Kansas City, but I do think he'd be in play for Kansas City as well.

I don't think he will be there when the Chargers have their second round pick. I think you guys are going offense. So this guy's basically just complaining about taking defensive and offensive alignment. I'd feel pretty good. One of Jim Harbaugh's best assets last year and definitely this year still is that he knows these guys so well, he's recruited all these players. He's coached against them. So, like, Loveland was his guy.

Henderson, like, he knows these guys, so does his defensive coordinator has coached against these guys. So I'd be confident going into this draft about Jim Harbaugh's knowledge of these players. Is it tough for these days to evaluate quarterbacks with so many college programs running non-traditional NFL-style offenses? How do you know a guy can run a pro-style offense when they've barely, been asked to assess those situations or make those throws in college. Well, just because you get to a throw, maybe in a shotgun situation, in a Texas Tech

air raid situation, different than under center and a five or seven-step drop, doesn't mean you don't have the arm strength or the accuracy to make that throw. I remember asking Andy Reid if he thought it was harder to evaluate Mahomes in that spread offense than it would have been 20 years ago when everyone was playing and like Pete Carroll at USC right running pro style offenses and he said no he thought it was easier because if you're I'm just picking a random number let's say on average you're throwing it 45 50 times a game he said from a homes for example he just took out all the quick screens so any throw behind the line of scrimmage they when he was evaluating he just didn't watch

what's the point like obviously you can make that throw. I don't need to evaluate you off that throw. But all the other throws, now, your footwork, you're in the shotgun, you might not be in the shotgun for similar plays, but I can evaluate you as a thrower. Or 20, 30 years ago, you were playing in offenses that I was going to look something up. I was going to go Brett Farr, college stats, and let's do Baker Mayfield college stats and let's do Jared Gough

Jared Gough college stats so Brett Farrv in college I'm just going to use this as an example see if they even have his stats at Southern Mississippi he threw his senior year 1990

275 passes his junior year 89, he threw 380, and his sophomore year he threw 319. In 11 games. Baker Mayfield, for example. Now, he's going to play more games because they were playing in, yeah, he's playing 13 or 14. Actually, Brett's probably a bad example. Brett was actually throwing it a lot.

Looking at Baker Mayfields, Jared Gough threw at 500, 530. Baker Mayfield was 400, 350, 400. Now, I guess Oklahoma was running the ball a lot. Let's use another guy. Let's use Peyton Manning. Payton Manning College stats. I said I was going to be quick, but this is kind of fascinating. So, Peyton Manning, God, I mean, these guys are throwing it a lot.

Payton Manning, 380, 380. His senior year, 477 times, 1997. Jared Goff, 2015, 529. So he threw it 50 more times. In the same amount of games, one less game. So I think guys sneaky throw it more than you realize. Now, your point being that their offense parallels more what NFL teams do back in the day in college, under center. I think teams, you know, some of these NFL teams, shotgun is a huge part of their operation.

So, I mean, Aaron Rogers, Peyton Manning, like ran shotgun offenses in the prime of their career. Who do you think the Chiefs are going to draft? I think it will be offensive weapons because if the Chiefs could be more explosive, it would make other teams play differently. Totally agree. I would guess they draft too often. I think they're going to be in the tight end business and I think they're going to be in the running back business. So I would expect offense as well.

Wouldn't it make more sense for the Titans to draft 100? or Gentie, they could get a quarterback in the second round or take Cousins. I think they like Cam Ward. They think Cam Ward can be, I mean, their head coach was just around Joe Burrow and their GM was just around Patrick Mahomes. So they have a pretty good idea what a quarterback at a high level looks like. Their offensive coordinator, Nick Holtz, was around Trevor Lawrence two years ago. So I think they got a pretty good idea of what they're looking for in a prospect.

I would just take Cam Ward. I hear what you're saying. I would rather have Cam Ward than Ashton Jenty. And everyone's like, you hate Ash and Genty. But I'm also, the way I look at drafts, might just be a little different than everyone else. How do NFL GMs receive multiple phone calls and trade offers during the 10 minutes to select their pick in the draft?

Are they the only ones on the phone? Or is there a hotline or something? where they all are getting offers. I just don't understand how these complex trades can be negotiated and finalized so quick. Well, any complex trade, and I've heard GMs and people around the league talk about this, are being negotiated in the first round right now. So you are putting deals, at least the parameters of deals, in place. I'm recording this on Wednesday.

You did it on Monday. You did it on Tuesday. You have had these discussions. anyone that has watched those videos of like a front office, the GM has a couple guys, his cap guy, maybe his assistant GM, also calling people.

So it's like, hey, get DeCosta on the phone. Hey, get Howie on the phone. Hey, get John Lynch on the phone. Get Veach and Andy on the phone.

So you got other people working while I'm working. Because you're right. You can't do that. I also think just the hard line, which all these teams have in the draft room, the cell phones are pretty, like you can text immediately. Like all these guys are texting each other too.

So, yeah, it's a lot going on. It is, it's really intense. It's, it's an intense environment. Some guys, you know, I've seen how he just, he's comfortable in chaos. I mean, any Eagles fans that have watched the stuff that the team puts out, like he's just, he's comfortable in that environment. He fucking likes it.

He lives for it. I think most guys like it, right? Most guys, all these GMs, especially like the football guys, like the guys that grew up loving football. And I would put Howie in this category as well. Their number one dream to be a GM. Like, Howie's a good example. He talks about, like, you know, his dreams to win Super Bowls.

He calls it world championships, even though it's an American championship. It's always been a pet peeve of mine. But, like, Super Bowl, Super Bowl, Super Bowls, their dream is a little kid to be a GM is the draft. So it's like, yeah, I mean, the point of the draft is to build the team to win football games. But like when you desire or aspire to be a general manager, it's sitting in that seat and being on the clock. I mean, that's the whole point, right?

Just like if you aspire to be a football coach, you probably aspire to call plays. I'm a Falcons fan. What do you think about drafting Malachi Starks with our 15th pick instead of an edge rusher? One thing I really liked about our defense last year was having two absolute lockdown safeties who always came in the clutch. With Simmons probably not coming back, we'll be missing one of those safeties. Do you think Leonard Floyd is enough for a pass rush with maybe spending a second or a third round pick on an edge rusher?

Grady is also gone, which will be another hit to our rush. Yeah, I mean, I would say his story. If you look at a lot of starters at safety, do not get drafted in the first round. Obviously, if there's an, you know, Ed Reed, a Ronnie Lott, I mean, an absolute game-changing player. I don't even know Ronnie Lott was a little before my time in the draft, but I'd assume Ronnie Lott was a first round pick. But, you know, a lot of guys that play that position do not get draft in the first round that start in the NFL. So Ronnie Lott was the eighth pick. I assume that.

I would say that I would take a defensive lineman in the first round and take a safety on the second day of the draft. Malachi Stark obviously had a great college career. He's a big-time player at Georgia. It would be difficult for me to take a safety in the top 15. I'm more pro-linebacker. Like if there's a great linebacker, I have no problem taking Luke Keakley, Roquan Smith,

those type players in the top 15. safety to me is a little difficult. I would take pass rusher. It's easier for a pass rush to make a safety look good than a safety to make a shitty pass rush look good. Hey, it's us to Jonas Brothers, and guess what? We have some big news. What's the news, new?

Huge news. We created our own podcast called, Hey, Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to a... We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts.

We're starting a trend. But this one's extra special. So how do we actually come up with a name Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it. Well, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band. Before Jonas Brothers was... This is how you guys remember it going down?

Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast, where people could call in and say, hey, Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your

podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter.

Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened.

That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise. Breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports Slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them.

Listen to Sports Slice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slica Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Jacob Kingston grew up in an isolated polygamous sect. We were God's chosen kingdom on earth. He felt destined for greatness. So when a swaggering Armenian businessman catapults Jacob into an extraordinary world, he doesn't look back. Ferraris and Lamborghinis, private jets, meeting the president of Turkey. I'm Michelle McPhee, and this is one of the most shocking.

criminal conspiracies I've ever come across. When Jacob met Levan this went to a billion dollar fraud. But with two kings from entirely different worlds, just how long can their empire survive? The largest tax investigation in American history. You need to tell me what you know. Is somebody coming after me? Jacob told Levan, you're ruining my life.

Listen to Kingdom of Fraud on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast. or wherever you get your podcasts. Just watch the movie Draft Day on Netflix. I love Costner and the idea of the movie about the draft. Holy shit was it bad though. Not even Costner could save it. Have you seen it?

And if so, is there anything in that movie that reminded you of something that happened when you worked in the NFL? I have seen it. It's been a long time now. I think most people consider it the most unrealistic portrayal. of reality ever.

And like you said, you don't even need to be some former scout or coach to know, that's no way that's true. It's just not. Now, I think some realistic aspect of it is like the coach

and, what's the coach's name? He's the dude from, from the firefighting show on FX. Dennis Leary, I think his name is. And Costner butted heads a lot. I think that. There's some truth to that.

those two positions, not always being on the same page. But the trading of picks and then trading them back, I do think there's some validity also to getting to know a guy, was a Bo Callahan, the quarterback that no one showed up to his birthday. Like that, it seems funny and we all laugh about it. But I do think there's some truth to like, does anyone like the quarterback? Let's use Baker Mayfield as an example. People have loved that guy since college.

It's why when the situation he went through with O'Dell Beckham, it was like, what's going on here? And do you know what it turned out? Probably more of an O'Dell issue than Baker? Because people like Baker Mayfield a lot. And the value you have as a quarterback, everyone's looking at you. And I think you see it around the league,

obviously the star quarterbacks, but even that next tier of guys, like people really like Jared Gough. People really like Baker Mayfield. Guys really like Dak Prescott. I mean, it's, it really, really, matters. So do they come to your birthday?

I mean, do you even invite all these guys your birthday? I don't know. But mailback question. In their prime, at their apex, pound for pound, career for career. Who are you taking? Farver Rogers.

In their apex, Apex, Favre won three straight MVP's and took a team back-to-back Super Bowls. I think in their apex, like the best of the best, I would lean Fav. Also factoring in the

the intangible stuff. What we just talked about with Baker, with Mahomes, with Josh Allen, with Lamar. I felt like not only the whole team, the coaching staff, and the city would run through a wall for Brett Farf.

And there are certain guys like that in the history of the NFL. Tom Brady had that. You know, Rogers, I don't know. Does he not have that? He didn't have it at the far end level. And I think the totality of his career,

his peak was longer, but at their apex, Marty Morningwig told me one time he thought that Fav is the best player that he'd ever seen. Now, this was 2010 or 11, so, I mean, there have been great players since. But Brady and Manning, I mean, the peak of Fav 96, 97, 98 was pretty freaking good. I heard you on the pod talking about the youngest Heisman winner. The youngest Heisman winner was Lamar Jackson at 19, followed by James. I think what I meant, I didn't mean the actual age.

I meant, you know, Lamar was a sophomore. Now, technically, he was a true sophomore. Johnny Mansell was the youngest in terms of he was the first freshman to win it, but he was a redshirt freshman. I think same thing with James. So to me, it's, we're nitpicking there. I hear what you're saying. Sophomores, true redshirt freshman.

A true freshman has never won it. You know, Caleb won it as a true sophomore. forever it was juniors and seniors. Now it's obviously redshirt freshman and sophomores won it. But I hear what you're saying. Because Lamar started as a true freshman at Louisville. I'm pretty sure. So he wanted his second year as a starter.

Johnny wanted his first year starting, though he redshirted the previous year. That's what I was kind of alluding to. But I appreciate those notes. My question for the pod, I'm a pack of fan. In 99, Holmgren left to take Seattle job and Green Bay hired Ray Rhodes.

However, we had Andy Reid on the staff in 1998. Do you think football history would have been different, had Reed been hired instead of Rhodes? Would we have more Super Bowls? Would Farr be viewed differently? Do you think this could have changed how your career turned out as well? Oh, yeah. If you hire him at Green Bay,

I think it's fair to assume that the Packers, yeah, I would have been more bullish on Farve's 2000s with the Green Bay Packers. Obviously, they never get back to the Super Bowl, never wins another MVP. I think he would have played at a higher level. I mean, who would you take, Andy Reed or Ray Rhodes? So if you just, at its simplest terms, I think then Andy never ends up as a Philadelphia Eagles head coach. Who knows? Never ends up in Kansas City.

Now, like all things end up ending. so maybe he is fired, but maybe it's at a date when the chiefs don't have an opening. So yeah, I mean, anytime you do the butterfly effect, I think it would impact everything. It would change the landscape of the national football league. Does Donald McNafts get drafted to Philadelphia? Who coaches the Eagles?

Are the Eagles any good? So, yeah, I don't know how to like quantify wins, losses, who wins, super Bowls, who doesn't, but it would have a dramatic impact on the national football. league for sure. Because you guys had a weird before Sherman, or was Mike Sherman there? Who was the coach?

Ray Rhodes. Because McCarthy got there in what, 07? If you were in charge of college football program at Oregon State, what would you do to get the program back on track? We finished the season ranked in the top 20 and 22 and 23, but

with conference realignment, we lost our head coach and most of our best players. We just finished a huge stadium renovation and acquired Duke transfer, Malik Murphy. But it still seems like the program is nowhere close to where it was pre-conference realignment. Do you have any ideas how to get a PAC-2 program like Oregon State in a position to merit an offer to join the major four conferences?

This does not bring me joy saying this. I'm not trying to kick you while you're down. I was a small school guy. It's not like I'm a USC Texas alum. I got my start at Fresno State, which is essentially, you're technically still the Pact 12, but you're a Mountain West school as well.

So I have a lot of admiration for what goes into the smaller schools to even attempt to compete. You have absolutely no shot in 2025. It pains me to say that. Because unlike me, like going to Cal Poly, you got to experience what it was like to play in here. huge games against USC, the University of Washington. Your rival was the University of Oregon,

who's one of the best programs of the internet era. I mean, that was your fucking rival. Excuse my language for all the kids listening. But it's over. You got no shot. Absolutely none. And I think having Dickard on the other day, Washington State's guy, and obviously Jonathan Smith,

Jonathan Smith, I mean, you know this, but who's now the coach at Michigan State, played quarterback at Oregon State. And there was just, like, you think he wanted to, he's from L.A. You think he wanted to go to Michigan State to be a head coach? But he couldn't stay because you can't compete.

You can't keep players. The schedule now relative to what it used to be is never going to be the same. And I think, you know, what sucks being Oregon State and Washington State, who legitimately tried? who, you know, for the most part, had high highs over the last decade

where UCLA's been a joke. The only reason UCLA is in the pack or in the Big Ten is because USC brought them along, right? Because of the L.A. market. Not because of their football program. Their football program is a laughing stock. It's why I think Nico going there

is say over and over is a joke leaving Tennessee to go to UCLA. But like, you got the short end of the stick where schools like UCLA who didn't not do a good job, benefited. Hell, even like Arizona. Like, you have been a much better football program in the University of Arizona over the last

20 years. It's not even close. And they get to go to the Big 12 and you get nothing. I, it sucks. There's nothing I can say beside it sucks. And there is not a path. There really isn't. Because even if they merge into these two conferences, right, like the NFL, NFC, AFC,

basically the Big Ten and the SEC. I don't see how Oregon State gets involved. I really don't. I've heard Collins say several times that Rosenhouse can be persuasive. That'd be Drew Rosenhouse. Specifically talking about getting Abdul Carter drafted. How is it possible for an agent, even if he's a top dog in his profession,

to get teams to draft his clients when they're the ones spending numerous hours and days evaluating players? Okay, this is the last question. I think, like, I mean, Abdul Carter's, you could argue he's the most talented guy in this draft. Because of his skill, playing pass rusher, elite bend, speed, explosion, tackling ability, range, like he's an elite. Rosenhaus just has to sell you maybe on the doctor stuff.

He's okay. But like you said, the doctor, who's an actual doctor, looks at the GM and the head coach and be like, yeah, I don't feel comfortable. what can Drew tell you? Now, Drew can get second opinions. I think it's more his persuasion can be helping guys get more money in negotiations, doing package deals, getting late round picks selected.

But when you're talking Abdul Carter, I don't think Drew has any impact on that at all. And I have a ton of respect. Rosenhaus Elite is gig. Elite. But, Abdul Carter, maybe,

you know, if you got like Roseman or, you know, Les Need or one of these guys on the phone. I know Trent Balke has done, I mean, a lot of deals with Rosenhouse over the years. He definitely can have an impact

on maybe like a lower tier free agent, getting workouts for guys in the offseason who are unemployed. But in a situation with like a top 10 pick, I think especially in a day and age when the money is slotted. So it's not one of those like, can we get the guy signed? For those of you that are young, like if you're like 22 years old, when I was a kid, a huge talking point was like if you had the top two or three pick, you would negotiate with like four or five players and kind of have an idea of who we can sign and who we can't.

But those days are dead. Like there is no negotiation. Like this is the contract. Sign it. Sign it, buddy. So I hear you. I don't think with Abdul Carter he has much juice. Now, can he just pitch the shit out of you with like a fifth round guy?

Wear out your owner. He can do that too. One thing Drew would have is he would have a direct line to 32 owners. So let me take a step back for a second and rephrase where he has no juice with a top pick. He'd get the owners here. And at the end of the day, the guy signing the check is the ultimate decision maker. So if he can convince the owner to pressure the, yeah. So now, can he impact a GM on a top, on the seventh pick in the draft?

Probably not. But what if the owner goes, well, you know, I really like so-and-so? And Drew has been wearing him out. Maybe took him to dinner, had a few cocktails. So I think, listen, all you guys listening in sales, some guys are just more persistent than others and can just kind of talk it into, uh, into reality.

And I would say Drew, you know, does Drew have an impact? You know, he's got Jalen Carter. If you got Howie and Drew with each a glass of wine, like what role did Drew have in convincing Howie that everything was going to be okay? When I was with the Eagles, Drew had Shady and Deshaun. So it's like Howie and Drew's relationship probably goes back 15, 20 years.

I would imagine over the last three or four, no player they talked more about leading into a draft than Jalen Carter. And it's worked out pretty well. I would imagine Drew wore out Howie, just like every other GM. But it worked. So maybe they have a bigger impact than I just, everything I said, take it all back. Maybe Drew, you know, Drew could tell ice to an Eskimo. The volume.

Hey guys, it's us. The Jonas Brothers. I'm Joe. I'm Kevin. And I'm Nick. And guess what? We created our own. podcast called Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it.

We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. We get to ask other people questions because we're sick and tired of being asked questions. Well, sick and tired is a strong way to put it, but, you know, tired and sick. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite.

Unhumor me with Robert Smigel and Friends. me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter.

Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Winning on Clay is an art. The rallies are relentless. And at the French Open, only the toughest survive. I'd know. I competed there for decades. Join me, Renee Stubbs, on the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast for no-nonsense breakdowns of the biggest matches, the toughest players, and the moments that define Roland Garris.

Genschen, she's an outsider to win the French for me. And she likes Clay. Listen, Lennar Rabakina is arguably the best player in the world right now, and I actually can win on any surface. Listen to the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast on the IHart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque.

Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.