The Herd with Colin Cowherd - 3 & Out - Thoughts on the Olympics, Mailbag

Episode Date: August 5, 2024

John opens the week with his thoughts on the Olympics as well as a massive mailbag. He answers your questions during today's podcast starting with a question about two of the top QB's in the league. Also, now that Miami has paid Tua, should people back off of the criticism surrounding him, could Rugby ever become like the NFL in America, the craziness that is the large amounts of money that gets thrown around to QB's, and how bad certain owners are in the NFL. Those questions and more are answered in this mailbag episode. 7:11 - Takes on the Olympics 17:08 - Mailbag 31:30 - Time to back off Tua 35:33 - Can Rugby ever be like the NFL 40:19 - Crazy money is getting thrown around 43:49 - Bad owners in the NFL 51:49 - Off-season Hard Knocks Follow John on Twitter, Instagram and YouTube for the latest. Check out Gametime - the fastest growing ticketing app in the US, and the official ticketing app of 3 & Out and GoLow -  for tickets to all of your favorite NFL, NBA, NHL, NCAA teams. Concert and comedy show tickets, too. Go to Gametime now to create an account, download the app and use code JOHN for $20 off your first purchase. #Volume #HerdSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Yep, that's me, Clivert Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifers Show. This is a place for raw, unfilled conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to The Clifford show on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok podcast network on TikTok. On the Look Back at it podcast. For 1979, that was a big moment for me. 84 is big to me. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a year, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. With our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite authors.

Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s. 84 was a wild. I mean, it was a wild year. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The volume. Not playing best ball at Draft Kings, you're missing out. Here's what you need to know.

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Probably really hot where you are, because I know it is scorching hot where I am. Feels about 150 degrees outside. Somehow I survived. Air conditioning bill is going to be high. Today is going to be a mailbag only. So at John Biddlekopf is my Instagram. Fire in those DMs.

I might lead off with a little, just a quick thought on the Olympics, It's going to be a mailbag show. So at John Middlecock firing those DMs. Went on with Colin as well. So go check that out on his podcast. And then we're off and running this week with, I think there are a ton of joint practices this week,

which is mandated by the league to be open to the press to the media. So there's going to be a lot of stuff flying these next four or five days of these joint practices. At least, I know definitely some team start them. But over the next couple of weeks, weeks, that's happening a lot. And then the Hall of Fame game, which was rained out, lightninged out, which I have nothing but respect if you're a football fan and you go to a game that neither team is from the region and the weather's going to be terrible.

I mean, it was dumping rain before the lightning started. And that's a, as in the audio business, you call it a P1. That's a top one percenter. That is a fantastic football fan. Obviously, football's huge in Ohio. I understand it's Hall of Fame weekend, but still. pouring rain at a football game in outdoors. That's for preseason.

And not just any preseason game, like the Hall of Fame game, which notoriously is like third stringers. Though there were some plays made. Other than that, very, very excited for the football season. So how do you not get excited? You guys know the drill, subscribe to the podcast. We're off and running, baby. But before we dive into football, I was thinking, I have seen so many people I follow

on Instagram, not that I know them, but like celebrities. at this event, the Olympics. And I saw Tom Brady was posting. Obviously, Peyton's been there. Just a bunch of people went. Tom Cruise was watching Simone. And I started thinking to myself, when the Olympics come here,

it feels like an event that you almost have to check off the bucket list. Like a lot of events. I've said it last week. We'll see if we can make it happen. Go to the Red River rivalry this year. Texas, Oklahoma. If you want to go to a big game, whether it be college or pro NFL,

like I said, the World Series, if your team's in the mix, playoff baseball games are freaking awesome. Concerts, every time Morgan Wallen does his walkout with Troy Aikman or Travis Kelsey and Patrick Mahomes and Chris Jones, it always gets me excited. I saw Luke Combs did a shotgun to beer with Trey Hendricks of the Cincinnati Bengals when he was playing it at the Bengals Stadium.

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For $20 off, download the Game Time app today. Last-minute tickets, lowest price is guaranteed. Before we dive into the mailbag, I just want to say that this Olympics has been really good. It's just clearly in the way that we consume sports, It has to feel big. And I don't know if the Olympics took a little dip 15, 20 years ago, but it felt like not as powerful.

I mean, when I was a kid from Kerry Shrug to Michael Johnson in 96, in the 200 and the 400 with the gold cleats, to obviously the dream team in 92, but maybe it's Star Power. And listen, I say it all the time. I watch sports not for the Johnny Triheartz. Like, I don't watch for the 52nd guy on the NFL roster. Not saying I don't respect it and think it's,

a good story. But I watch for Patrick Mahomes, Tom Brady, and Peyton Manning, and Aaron Rogers. I watch golf because of Tiger Woods. Right? Like, I like the San Francisco Giants when they were humming for Tim Lynch to come and bust her posy. I'm a star guy, and it's proven that most people are. They're the ones that move the needle. And this Olympics has been driven, at least from an American standpoint, by superstars. I mean, Simone Biles, I have a newfound respect for her because I watched the Netflix documentary on the thing called the Twisties. for our golfers is like the thing when you get the yips in golf, it can happen in putting or chipping.

You know, Charles Barkley had it with his swing. You get it in gymnastics when like your head and your body aren't at the in the same spot. And obviously in gymnastics when you're jumping as high as she's jumping and she's a freak athlete, you could break her neck, you could die. And she had to bow out of the 2000, I guess was it 20, 21, whenever they held that, the old Vid Olympics. and it was like, yeah, I completely understand if your mind is not on board.

And, you know, Maria, my fiance did gymnastics growing up. So she loves it. She's been getting up early. We've been, you know, recorded on YouTube TV. And it's been awesome. Now, like I said, I think it's star-driven, which is cooler because it has someone really famous. Katie Ledecki is just thumping people.

I mean, she's winning. She's out of the pool, drying off, hugging her family. before anyone finishes. And today, the golf, which I don't love that it's just the same as a normal tournament, but today we got what felt like a major. The final group was John Rom, Zander Schofley, and Tommy Fleetwood, and they got chased down by Scotty Schaeffler. And I said a couple weeks ago, on Go Low after Zander won the second major.

I was up in Tahoe when the open took place. So like, let's not get a twisted. Zander would not trade his year for Scotty. You would take two majors over anything. And obviously the money, Scotty had made more money. But today was a pretty big day for Scotty. And this is the best part about sports. Things kind of ebb and flow.

Because Scotty's chased him down twice. Twice. He did it at the players when I think, you know, Zander shot 70 and Scotty shot like 62 or 63 and won the players basically on Sunday. And he did today. My buddy Orlando, who a little lefty from UC Davis,

who's worked at TPC Scottsdale where they have the waste management forever. Congratulations to him is headed to Draft Kings for a new gig. Texted me last night. He's like, bro, I'm looking at these Scotty Shefflerods, and they are awfully tasty. And my response was like, I don't know, it feels like Zander and Rom was playing well. Maybe this isn't his week. And because it kicked off where I was at 3 in the morning, I rolled kind of over on Sunday morning, probably 5.45, 6. And John Rahm had a four-shot lead.

and then all of a sudden I kind of kept watching and Scotty got hot. He shot six under on the back and today was pretty legendary and pretty cool. Now, Zander won the gold medal the last time they had it, but today was a pretty big moment. Now, I think still you would take two majors in a year over everything else. Assuming you're already really rich what Zander is because Scottie's going to make $55 million. Now Zander's going to end up with $25 or $30 on the year. But the gold medal today was a pretty big moment for him. And obviously the tears, the crying, the anthem, his wife there with a little baby.

That was fun. And like I said, Ledecki, Simone, and I'm leaving people out. I'm not acting like I'm Mr. Olympian here. But it's felt big. And we say this all the time about football is one advantage they have is scarcity, just once a week. And it's not every night. And every game matters.

To the coaches, to the players, to the fans, we all agree. every game is big. Doesn't mean your season is made on that game. But week three, if you're the Giants, if you're the Eagles, or you're the Arizona Cardinals, it feels massive. And baseball lost that a long time ago. There is not a baseball game that happened today that matters, unless someone obviously like Aaron Judge gets injured or whatever. There's not an outcome the day that matters.

It's just not an opinion. That's just a fact. And obviously basketball, the players don't even give a shit about the regular C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C. So why would us as the consumer? It's why the Olympics, they're not called the Dream Team, but whatever, the Olympic team, which is historically loaded, I think their first game against Serbia,

which has Yokic, did 11 million people. I'm pretty sure the NBA Finals has been struggling to get close to 10. Why? Because these games feel big. Obviously, there's a patriotic element, but there's something been cool about this Olympics. And I think I had to take a couple of weeks,

ago, and I stand by this. It does feel like we've kind of shoehorned a lot of sports into this. Handball. Just some sports, like, are we really doing this? We're going to do flag football. Who cares? Maybe it's just fun. Maybe just enjoy this. Obviously, there are the

staples of swimming, of gymnastics. I even said, like, is golf really an Olympic sport? But watching today, how much it meant to these people, I mean, these are all, John Rahm got $400 million. And you could tell he was not happy. not even meddling.

It meant a lot to him. Hadeki Matsiyama is, I wouldn't say he's quite Shohei Otani, but he's a pretty big deal in Japan. He's made hundreds of millions of dollars. And he was furious when he missed a putt today. I think it was on 18. It would have, you know, given him a shot. Maybe it was 16 or 17.

He actually, if he just could putt today, probably wins it pretty easily. Might have won it by a couple shots. But there's something in a world, and listen, I'm a capitalist. I fucking love money. Not that it means much to my soul, but I got expensive habits.

And like I'm never against doing anything for money. I totally understand in college football. These players want to get paid. It is what it is. Welcome to the real world. But there is still this element of, there's this pure element, even if it is a little jaded in modern times,

which is still cool about the Olympics, that we don't quite get anywhere else. Now, if you're successful in the Olympics, like Michael Phelps has a multi-million dollar pad in Paradise Valley. Like he's a multimillionaire. Simone Biles is going to make a ton. Not that you don't get to profit off it,

but the actual kind of ethos of the event and the competition is just trying to win this gold medal. Or what makes it cool too is even if you lose, there's something to be said like, I want a silver or a bronze medal,

which is game changing. Like the chick from Brazil that can't take down Simone, like, she's pretty happy when she won the silver. I was watching the other day. And we just don't get that many other places.

You know, so it's kind of fun to a little throwback event. It feels big because, like we said, the scarcity of it. It happens once every four years. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all,

embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying.

Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show.

This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment. And the next, we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music.

The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app,

Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim?

Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam Jay and I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84's big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so y'all know.

I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack, so I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now, so... Thank you for finishing that. sentence. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years

for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. So you have an upcoming fantasy football draft? Well, then you need to check out the fantasy pros draft wizard. When you sync your fantasy football league with draft

wizard, you'll get an instant report that shows you how the rest of your league drafts. You'll see who overdrafts rookies in early rounds, who's going to be the person to take that first QB off the board, and which manager is going to always reach for that hometown player every single time. And then you take those patterns directly into the draft simulator and make your mock draft feel like the real thing. When your real draft comes around, you're going to be ready.

And the draft assistant will be there for you to give you live pick-by-pick insights and expert recommendations of who to draft and when to draft them. You can see all of this and more at fantasy pros.com slash volume today. Okay, let's get in the mailbag. Question for the mailbag. Realistically, what do you think the gap is between Alan and Mahomes? Obviously, Mahomes has the vast majority of success so far, but I think they were to switch teams, and more importantly,

offensive coaching staffs, Allen would be the one with championships. Everyone universally agrees Allen is more gifted, and I don't think the gap in football IQ is that large. Maybe I'm just biased because I predicted Alan would be the best in the class the year he was drafted. I think Patrick Mahomes' football IQ at this point is elite. Like, I think his ability, and he proved it last year when he had to kind of manage games

and not turn the ball over in the playoffs. Like, that was Peyton Mannington-com Brady-level stuff. Like, it doesn't get any better. Now, Josh Allen hasn't been able to do that because of his defense has let him down. But I don't think anyone with a fucking brain would argue that Josh Allen could win a Super Bowl with Andy Reed. So would Andy Reid, if he had Josh Allen the last, five years. We have three Super Bowls? I don't know. I can't. I can't say that. It's really, really hard to win three Super Bowls. Would he have one? 100%. There is no doubt in my mind,

and there shouldn't be a doubt in anyone's mind. He's the second best quarterback in this league. I actually think there's a pretty wide gap. I mean, we'll have to see on Joe Burroughs health, which is a big question mark. Lamar's playoff struggles are not debatable anymore. That performance that he had in that AFC championship game will be. be something my draft king's account will never forget. And I do think Josh Allen has proven to be a fantastic playoff quarterback. Here's the other thing. I know all these guys with the Chiefs.

And I was texting him the night of the Chief's Bill's game. And listen, not that they didn't fear Lamar, but like they know they can beat Lamar. Josh Allen terrifies them. Josh Allen scares them more than Lamar does. So it's not acting like Lamar's not a scary player. but Josh Allen is on another level. And the other thing is they know he doesn't fold in the playoffs. They know he's unflappable in terms of like the moment hasn't been too big for him.

His defense has let him down. So the gap, let's face it, like this is kind of the world we live in. It's pretty black and white. Do you win or do you lose? And when you don't win, even though it's a team game and you can't, this isn't golf or tennis, like you don't control everything. But like you get more credit. when you start rattling off Super Bowls.

I mean, it's just a reality. We would not talk about Mahomes the same if instead of three, he only had one. We would still hold him in super high regard, but he went to, from a sports standpoint, like, rare error, right, in a rare group of people. And Josh, all Josh has to do is win one, and then I think he'll easily be considered one of the best players

for all time. Like, because Farve has one. Rogers has one. I think both those guys would be considered top seven, eight quarterbacks of all time. Marino's in unique category because anyone that played against him said he's one of the best players ever, and I don't dispute that,

but he doesn't have one and he only got to one. So, I mean, Josh, Tart, the other thing is that there are times in certain sports. I think basketball is an example of this. I think golf and tennis have been examples of this, and football has been an example of this, where it's like, yeah, we couldn't beat Tom Brady and the Patriots. I just, I couldn't beat Roger Federer.

I couldn't beat Rafon Clay. I played in Tiger Woods era. I have three PGA tour victories and two top twos in majors. I probably have three majors and ten wins if Tiger doesn't exist. Just the reality of the situation. If Tom Brady and the Patriots hadn't materialized, think how different. I mean, does Peyton have four Super Bowls? does Rathesberger have two

the world would just be different but that's what makes sports so cool is like there becomes this dominant thing about the Warriors teams with staff and once they got KD it's like you ain't beating us now that's the difference in football like the Patriots were beatable

they could have lost some of these games the Chiefs could have lost some of these games but they usually don't for whatever reason better coaching, better players better scheme, better mental phones, better mental focus, more tough. I don't know.

When it comes to talent, it's from Eli. At the quarterback position in the AFC during the Mahomes era, how do you think this will affect the goat debate between Mahomes and Brady? Could you rank your top 10 AFC quarterbacks since the year 2000? And I'd take Joe Burrow over Peyton Manning in the playoffs. If Mahomes ends with five, the talent of guys he has to go through, in and out has to add value to the debate. Well, I think Burroughs got a long way to go before he passes Peyton Manning.

Peyton Manning went to four Super Bowls. I know it feels, and early on, his playoff play was a little underwhelming. Now, granted, some of that was Belichick and Vrabel and Bruske and Richard Seymour. I mean, it was a tough team to go against. Like, they're beating a lot of people if you're playing those rules. Burroughs been to one and lost. Peyton's been to four. So he's got a long way to go to say, hey, he's better playoff player.

Like, we got to, I'd pump the brakes there. I do think Brady's Trump card is going to be nearly, think how remarkable. And if I tell you right now, Mahomes ends up with five Super Bowls. Never forget, Belichick and Brady won three early in the 2000s. And they did not win another one, I think, for, was it, nine years? Now they went to a couple throughout 2007, 2011, the two Giants losses. But wasn't that 05 and they didn't win it again till the Seattle one? Which would have been like February of 2015, I think.

Could be a year off. Then I think they won 15, 16 because they played the Falcons the next year. So that would have been February, I might be off on my years. But you get the point. Like there was a long gap. Maybe it was 2014. I mean, we're talking, the difference,

if Andy right now was 55, I think everything would be on the table. You'd be like, this thing can go on 15 years. You're talking about a guy in his mid-60s. You know, Belichick in 2005 or whatever, he's 72 now, that's 20 years ago, was 53 or something, right? 52.

So he still had, he was relatively young in terms of coaching, like he had a lot of coaching left. To me, if Andy was 55, 58, that guy, 10 more years. I mean, is Andy coaching at 72, 73? I don't know. I don't think he's, like, quick to retire by any means, but just something to keep a thought on. Because if I tell you that Andy in three years is not the coach, you just don't look at it at the same. part of a dynasty is continuity in football, the coach quarterback,

in this modern day game, which we've really only seen two, right? We've seen a lot of good teams. Packers were good for a long time, the Steelers were good for a long time, but it's not like they got multiple Super Bowls. I'm talking in post-Brit, I know they've both won Super Bowls before. I'm talking in the last 15 years. Do you think the negativity toward the Giants is a bit overstated? It seems like every sports talk show has written the Giants off as horrible, terrible,

and basically every negative adjective imaginable. I'm a Giants fan, so this is a little bias. But I can see them being pretty decent. By decent, I mean finishing around 500 and playing meaningful games around Thanksgiving. They should have a solid defense and upgraded the line, and they have a receiver group with a lot of young talent. If Daniel Jones is just average and plays like he did two years ago, I think they could be decent, although I think them being seriously competitive is probably a few years in a new quarterback away.

I agree. Listen, I've already decided who I'm picking in the East and the order of the division. I'm going to Eagles, Cowboys, Giants, Washington. That's my one through four. I think the same teams that made the playoffs last year, make the playoffs again. Philly in the Cowboys. And they just alternate win the division. I'm not doom and gloom on the Cowboys as much as it.

everybody else. And I think the Giants are one of those third place teams like if Daniel Jones is just atrocious, they win six, seven. If he kind of goes Alex Smithy, they could go nine and eight, eight and nine, kind of that range, which is the difference of like a made field goal or a fumble. I don't love the roster, but I've seen the coach overachief. I think the problem is Daniel Jones when they made the playoffs at nine and eight one, they really got to sneak up on everybody. Not that they wouldn't necessarily this year. But if they were just competitive early, I think everyone would take them seriously. Two, they got some pretty big name guys on defense.

So every offense is going to take their defense very seriously coming into the season. But Daniel Jones threw, I think 15 touchdowns that year. 15? I think that is just an outlier anomaly year. They were very dependent on Sequin that year. There's a running back room going to be as good. Listen, Malik neighbors, every time you see a highlight of him, in training camp, he looks awesome. He is awesome. He was my number one guy, just based on watching

the three of them, because his upside, like, Marvin Harrison's upside is not bad. It doesn't mean Marvin Harrison won't be the best of the group, but I think most people you talk to thought either one, two, Malik, Harrison, or Harrison Malik. And then there was a little gap. And again, little gaps, the difference of like, I'd take this guy in the top five. And this guy's probably more somewhere like 10 to 15 on a typical year value scale in Rome. Roam's really good. I like him a lot.

Like he's going to be solid in the NFL. But Malik's ceiling is just, that was the thing with like Odell. You knew right away, like his high end is so freaking high because the explosion, the willingness, the ball skills. But can't Daniel Jones give him the ball? If I told you Malik neighbors was with Kyler,

you're like, shit. It could be some serious fireworks here, some bombs. just go deep, baby. You put Malik Davis, it's like what happened with DK. DK got drafted. It's like, who's this guy that runs really fast and is super jacked? Oh, he's just going, and this at the time when Russell was good, with one of the best deep ball throwers we've ever seen.

And what happened? They were awesome. So, I just don't love the fit. Because best case scenario, Daniel Jones, the poor man's Alex Smith, Alex never thrived with guys like that. And the difference is like even Tyree Kill, you could hand them the ball off and throw him quick screens.

And obviously Tyreek blew up really when they kind of went from Mahomes or Alex to Mahomes. I don't know if you saw that picture of the viral video. I was just scrolling the other night and saw it and I just scrolled right by. Alex's leg did. It is just talk about a crazy story when he almost lost his leg and they had to, they were going to amputate it and his wife talked him out of it. Anyone that hasn't seen that 30 for 30. If you want a good cry, that's a good watch. but that leg, man, it's remarkable what modern medicine can do to keep something on

because that does not look like a lower leg. It really does. Even Tiger Woods leg went viral a couple weeks ago. It doesn't look nearly like that. And it doesn't look great. It doesn't look good. Makes you really sometimes take a step back and have some gratitude. Just, man.

The NFL seasons right around the corner. We'll be breaking down all the off-season storylines on the Colin. Howard Podcast. My best takes, guests like my buddy Nick Wright, check out the Colin Coward podcast, part of the Volume Network, available on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds.

I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined.

now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream,

this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking.

What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s.

To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you for finishing that sentence. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really?

Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Mailbag, made an account to ask you this question. Following Tools deal, you went pretty hard. You are shorting the fins the next three or four years. My question is, are you shorting the Jags in the same way? Tua has been objectively better than Trevor.

The Jags are equally dysfunction in the last 20 years. You could argue Trevor won a playoff game. I would argue Staley choked that playoff game. I'd agree. Though Trevor played pretty good, but the guys were wide open. I just wonder if you view them as the same potential-wise. Both guys who will never be in the top five in their own conference and have a quarterback in their division who is clearly much better.

If you wanted Tua to take third, 30-something mill a year, I feel Trevor should have given the exact same treatment. I didn't love either deal. I thought the Jags were crazy. And I don't like the Jags that much either. But I'm not, I don't take the Jags that seriously to begin with. Like, to me, they are clearly the third best team in that division. And if Callahan and those guys in Tennessee can just turn Will Levis into a top 15 quarterback, like, who's to say the Jacks couldn't be last? So I'm not high on the Jacks. I don't act like the Jacks. bags are some serious operation. My thing with Tua is, like you said, objectively the stats, yeah, he's going to pull up

the stats and they look, good. You're like, ah, this is just the numbers. If you just let the stat sheet, his box scores, go to Wiki and see the year by year, you're like, oh, his last couple years. I know that's a guy, as Tommy Lassorto once famously said, that if you have a big game and you're the Bengals, you're the Chiefs, You're the Ravens, you're the Bills. You want to send a limo to his hotel to pick him up to make sure he's on the sideline when the kickoff starts.

Because you can't wait to play him. I'm not talking about October 10th, which like I said, games in the NFL matter. It's why they make the playoffs because they win a lot of games September and October. When it start getting cold and it starts getting windy and it starts getting rainy, and I'm one of the big boys, I'm licking my lips. And that's not me being a hater. That's actually what has happened. We just saw it.

How do you ever forget what happened last year? The bills were six and six. The dolphins were cruising, and the dust settled. They had lost the division. Bills are hosting playoff games. Dolphins didn't even have a snowball's chance in Alaska, let alone hell. It was never going to work. You'd be like, what?

This, nope, I don't even know what I meant by Alaska, but you get my point. They got embarrassed. They got embarrassed. And it's hard for me to take Tua seriously once you start getting paid a lot when I see him in a game against the other top quarterbacks.

That's my thing with Brock Purdy. I've seen him against other good competition. Obviously, he's had bad games, but I've also seen him answer the bell. I have not seen Tua answer the bell. Hey, John, just listen to your comments on U.S. athletes moving on from American football and do other sports like rugby.

Fun fact. The USA won the Olympic gold medal in the 1920 and 1924. My dad is from New Zealand and I grew up watching and playing rugby. I played in the under 19 Las Vegas 7s. This guy could play a little. I agree with your take.

And we have seen some athletes like Carlin Isles move from spring football to rugby with success. If the U.S. had a more established rugby pipeline and could monetize the sport better, the USA could become a powerhouse in the sport in short order. Here is my question. The Major League rugby has made some progress, but at times looks like a second-rate XFL, AFL.

How would the Major League rugby become like the NFL on a social and business level? I think it's very, very difficult for sports to just become popular in 2024 in America. So rugby is definitely more kind of a niche thing than soccer. But you have seen the way we emphasize soccer. We claim to try, but we don't care nearly as enough as these other countries. Which it's a way of life. It's a way of life. Like if you go to the South and you meet a good athlete at 8, 9, 10, 12 years old,

they're thinking about probably more than likely playing in the SEC football and making it to the NFL. and maybe if they're good, maybe basketball, but it's, it's an American sport. Or if you went to Brazil or Spain or England, obviously soccer would be a huge thing. And then there'd be a percentage of people that, you know, tennis or rugby, it's about priorities. And our priorities just, as long as football around, we'll never be rugby. It just, it just won't. And I'd say the same thing with soccer. We just will never care enough.

even remotely. Partly because the best league in the world, even though the world, when it comes to ability to consume stuff, is easier than ever. Like, if I want to watch Manchester United or I want to watch

the Japanese baseball league, like I can get access to anything, when it's not in your homeland and you see people that like, hey, like I'm from Davis, California, where when I was a kid, it was a big deal for my dad who went to UC Davis,

that Ken O'Brien was drafted in the first round of the Jets. Or when I was coming up in high school, that Dustin Padroia was going to the big leagues, or Nick Watney was going to be a PGA tour golfer. So the relatability, like if you grow up in a certain area, it's like, Wayne Rooney is from 20 minutes away where I grew up. I think that's an underrated element of, sports with the youth, right?

Were you like, hey, DJ Williams went to Miami from Dales out. I remember that being a big, big deal when I was like a freshman or sophomore in high school, playing high school football. And when you can relate to people around you, it helps you dream. I mean, and I think part of, you know, dreaming about this, I was watching the Roger Federer documentary, and he was like a ballboy in, tennis and just love tennis. And he could kind of see these guys and it probably, it definitely did he talk about it. helped inspire him to want to be there one day. And it's hard for rugby, even if you watch the championships.

Like, we don't have anything to relate if you're a 15 year old kid. So it's easier to go, I want to be Patrick Mahomes or Nick Bosa or Justin Jefferson or Steph Curry or hell, you know, even Scotty Sheffler. Like, if you're from Texas, right, you're more likely to be like, yeah, you know, Bryson D. Chambot lives here, Scottish Jeffler lives here. If you love football, this is where Kyler Murray's from, Baker Mayfield, Drew Brees. I think that's an underrated element that impacts people. Because it impacted me as a kid.

It impacted the way my family and friends talked about sports. Even when I moved to Philly, it was a big sense of pride, someone from Philly. What's a big thing with Seekwon going to the Eagles? Not that they're stealing them from the Giants, but that it's like the hometown kit. It was like that with Shady McCoy, Pennsylvania guy. It resonates with people,

and it really impacts younger people. How wild is it that guys like Tua and Lawrence are signing four and five-year deals for $215 and $275 million and one combined playoff win? While Rathusberger played 18 years when two Super Bowls and his career earnings sits around 270 million,

did Rutherzberger win two Super Bowls? I'm pretty sure he won one. Am I blanking right now? He went two? I guess Cower. I guess Cower won one and Tomlin won one. Let me just... It's been a while.

Big Ben Rotherverger. I guess you're right. Because Cower definitely has one. And Tomlin has the one. I guess they lost one, too, against the Packers. So they beat the Cardinals. How many Super Bowls this guy have? Yeah, you're right.

I knew that. Just, it's crazy. That's a long time separation since he won the Super Bowls. Good call. A little brain fart there. Cowan Tama. And sits around 270 million in career earnings. It's just kind of strange to me how these teams don't gamble a bit more on the cycling

through these mid-tier quarterbacks, like Tua, to save money. money via the draft. We'll allow these guys to go in the open market to get a real feel on what they're actually worth. Big fan. Steeler fans are going to be pissed. I know you guys. You guys got six.

I think the problem is there are two separate examples. One, I think the Jags are betting on the come that he's going to be better than the guy we've seen and then that deal will feel cheap if he's awesome this year, which to me is too big of a risk to do at that amount of money.

But they clearly like the guy, his work ethic. He's not as talented as the hype had made him out to be. Like we've seen the elite talents. Doesn't move like Lamar, doesn't throw it like Josh or Patrick. He's got a solid arm. I wouldn't call him Mr. Make plays with his feet. I wouldn't call him Mr. Never Turns the Ball Over. Like, what are his defining attributes?

where Tua is just slow and steady and dominates in good weather against average to blow competition and play better competition late bad weather got no shot. And again, it sounds like I'm being really critical. Like I'm... I've seen this guy interviewed.

Like, I think he's a really good person. Like, it's not like he'd be easy to root against if he was a bad guy. And I'm not rooting against them. But when you... When you put all your chips in the middle of the table on that version of a player, I don't see the upside there

in the conference they're in. I would understand it more if the dolphins were in the NFC. They're like, we could win a couple of playoffs games, and maybe they'd be right. If we get the Niners or the Rams or the Lions in a dome, as long as we avoid going to Green Bay, Dallas. Like, we're not going to play in crazy weather games. Last year they played the Chiefs,

Brett Veets told me it's the coldest game he's ever been a part of. The guy's been in the league for 20 years. So it was fucking freezing. You couldn't feel any body part the moment you walked out the tunnel in pre-game warmups. They knew they had the game won. Oh yeah, too ain't doing this here.

He didn't say that, I did. Question for the mailbag. By the way, I just saw you propose to your girlfriend. Congrats. Thank you, buddy. My question is about bad NFL ownership. We see so many teams switch head coaches every two to three years, a la my Raiders.

I saw today that, you know, one big thing in Raiderland is once a Raider, always a raider. And whether you get cut, whether you get traded, whether you get fired as a coach. John Gruden, who coached the Raiders, not once but twice, and it's hard to call it a rivalry, definitely with Andy Reid because the Chiefs or win in Super Bowls and I think Patrick Mohn's like 10 and 2 against them.

But historically, it is a rivalry. John Gruden was at Chief's practice, decked out in Chief Gear, hanging with the coaches. Obviously him and Andy go back 30 years, but still, that's a tough little stretch. The Raiders had to host the Chiefs. chiefs at their building, which my buddy Greg Poppo, who's a long-time voice of the Raider, said Al Davis turned over in his grave 500 times over that one, and then the chiefs won it in the

building, and now they're hosting his coach, John Ruden. Now, granted, I don't blame John. John was fired by Mark Davis, which was a little out of Mark Davis' control, a ton of public pressure, but still, a little weird. It's a little weird. We see so many, I know you have to fire a guy if he's not doing well, but it seems like every team who is successful has a coach they stuck out with even through tough times like Dan Campbell. How many coaches do you think actually deserve to get fired? I think here's the hard problem. Dan Campbell didn't really have tough times.

I mean, he inherited an awful team and they were terrible his first year. In the second year, they won nine and eight and ended Rogers career in Green Bay. So by the end of year two, would the Lions finish that second half of the season, like seven and two or something? they were really good down the stretch. So, I think coaches are a little bit like relationships. And as someone who's about to get married later in life, I'll be 40 in October,

is you date a lot of people. And I would say, in my experience, you know relatively quickly like, yeah, I'm not getting married to this girl. What? Got nothing else going on? I like her. She's fun.

But you know right away. It's not usually one of those things where, you go, let's just see if this can work. Now, sometimes that happens. But for the most part, I think you kind of know early. We got something special or we don't. And it's less about, you know, in relationships, it's about a couple of specific things.

But with a football coach, I think you can have a rough first year and go, we got something. This is a dude. Like, this is someone we want to. And then there are guys that make you question themselves. And obviously, it's, It's a bottom line business.

Winning and losing is how these guys are judged. But I think early on, for some guys, you know. Okay, it's hard for me, use the Raiders as an example. Josh McDaniel is fucking terrible. We all knew it. We all saw it. You didn't need to be Mark Davis or Devonty Adams to know, like, you got to fire that guy. So I can't give.

Obviously, you don't usually want to fire a coach after a year and a half, but it was clear, this ain't going to work. And these are extreme cases. but the Giants have fired some guys. Now, if you want to be critical of the... It's hard for me to be critical of Mark Davis for hiring Josh. Usually guys get second chances. There was a long gap. I would have hired him too if I was Mark.

So I think that was the right move. And I also think the right move was firing him. Now, if you want to be critical, let's use the Giants for an example. In what world did you think Pat Schumer was going to be good? Joe Judge is one of the craziest hires in the history of the league. the 49ers Jim Tom Sulla Chip Kelly who mailed it in three years previously What did you think the outcomes were going to be

But you know you got to fire him You have to fire him It's sometimes that's where the relationship analogy kind of breaks that if no one's cheating on each other And you're not screaming at each other It's easy to kind of ride it out for a while Where in football It's you got to draw a line in the sand

and usually sooner than later. I hear what you're saying, and logically it makes a lot of sense. But I think most of these teams that fire coaches quickly, how often are they wrong? Like, how often you're like, yeah, he didn't deserve that?

Like Arthur Smith last year with the Atlanta Falcons. I think he's a good coordinator. But he had three straight years win seven games. And last year was tough to watch. So even if you like the guy, which I think clearly they did,

and he's going to be a very successful coordinator, I think, in Pittsburgh or wherever he ends up moving forward just the rest of his career. But you're just like, you're supposed to write it out? That's where I think it's hard. It's easy when you get Urban Meyer. Like, what is this clown show or Jim Tom Sula? Those ones are no-brainers. I think it gets more difficult when you kind of like the guy. Like, let's assume the Giants, like, I like Joe Judge, but I can't be running quarterback sneaks on third and nine.

pinned into my own goal line. Like, that can't have. That's embarrassing the brand. And you can embarrass the brand in the NFL or any company several different ways, right? Just by doing a bad job. And then by doing things like that. Or it's like, this is an embarrassment to my consumer. And I think it's a good thing because this happens more and more now.

Al Davis, that last like 10 years, was kind of rare firing dues left and right. in this modern day, a lot of teams wouldn't do it forever in pro sports because it was very expensive to do. In these teams in the 80s and 90s, way more people would have been fired in pro sports over the last 50 years if the money was all like the last 10. But a lot of it was like, yeah, I'm not paying this guy at the time a couple million dollars for two years to go away. I don't want to just waste my money. Now it's a line item. Trust me. I'm looking at getting someone to come play for my wedding.

I was thinking, yeah, maybe I'll dabble into someone of a big name. Wedding's going to be in Nashville. How much would it cost to get, you know, I'm not looking for Garth Brooks or Morgan Wall in there, but, you know, someone with some albums, someone that everyone would know. And I started making some calls. You get some numbers back, you're like, holy shit. I'd play more of these if I was these guys. but it's like anything.

As money changes, so does everything. So I think that has led to to the world we live in where guys get canned fast. But I don't remember many guys getting canned in football that didn't deserve it. I really can't. Let's just think the last couple years, right?

Who got fired, Washington, Ron Rivera. I mean, no-brainer. Atlanta. no-brainer. The Tennessee thing, I would not be in the business of firing Mike Vrable, but clearly that thing was out of whack. And I think best thing for Mike Vrable is to go away. But that's one of the rare ones where he's going to get another head coaching job. Something was off that I can't pretend and have all the details. And Mike, he've heard him in some interviews. He's kind of, he's good with his words about it. But I think maybe one day when he gets

another job, he'll probably talk a little shit, which I'm excited. decided for. You know, the Belichick thing, it was just, it was time. It was definitely time. So I think you see some of these firings most of the time are pretty justified. John, Ian here. Longtime listener, love the pod. I have a mailback question regarding the off-season hard knocks. Do you think fewer teams will be willing to participate in the future? If they do, do you expect them to be less transparent as the giant showed a lot on the first iteration of the show? Although the Giants didn't reveal their plans, I believe they did show enough that made them look bad and potentially put off a lot of free agents

regarding the handling of Saquan. I was talking someone in the league the other day, and he brought up the point that said, the Giants wouldn't have allowed even for like theatrical buzz to let the NFL films create stuff that's out of order to just create more drama.

So you have to take it at face value that if the Giants are allowing it, it is happening in the sequence that it's happening. There was a scene, I think, on Saturday or Sunday, before Free Agency was starting, the Monday. And in that scene, it's just Dayball and Joe Shane. Now, if this conversation happened three weeks previously, it would not be as weird. But when it was happening, the day or two before Free Agency and Joe Shane was like,

so Dave's, who you like? What are you thinking? O-line over running backs and D-line over McKinz, this guy and that guy. You're like, wait, they're having this conversation. the day before free agency starts, I only have experience in one organization. There is no chance that Howie has ever had that conversation

the day before free agency started. That conversation with any well-run organization would be like, listen. So we've narrowed it down to these four guys for offensive line. If we resign Seque One, then we can't make the Burns trade. If we don't resign Seque One, then hopefully we can execute the Burns trade. we're trying to get Tyrod, that's your number one guy right?

And it was not communicated like that in that room. And again, I'm allowing the potential chance that it was done for cinematic reasons. But why would the Giants have okayed that? They'd be like this, you can't put this stuff out of order. It makes us look like idiots. So if I have to assume the Giants are okaying it because that's the way it happened, that's insane. So what are you thinking? Like O-line?

They're talking like me and you would be over a couple beers at the bar. Yeah, I think we need like this tight end and hope to get a running back and see if Morgan will, yeah, we'll see how that goes. It's obviously you don't know. But the way, just how kind of cavalier and loose they were about it, nothing specific. especially because it was going to be aired well after, so it wasn't like going to give their secrets away that they wanted those couple offensive linemen and what they were willing to trade for Burns,

but just the way, I'll never forget the way he looks at Dayball, and he's like, what are you thinking? Be like tonight, Maria, what do you want for dinner, man? What are he thinking? Do you want to get Chinese or maybe Mexican? I don't know, cheeseburger? This is a pretty big deal. the pretty, how do you not have it specifically?

And maybe they just did that for the cameras, but I can't even imagine they would. I don't know. If that was fake, then they fooled me. They fooled me. I thought that part was crazy. I think it's going to be very, very difficult to get anyone to ever agree with that.

That was so good in terms of the entertainment value for us because I kept thinking, I can't believe they're showing this. I can't believe they're showing this. everyone shows the draft room or calling Malik neighbors like that that's not that weird but the level of conversations

between Shane the coaching staff and the scouts with the owner we've never seen at the levels in which we saw and that conversation with Dayball was an eye-opener for people around the league

because it embarrassed them and listen I think Joe Shane seems like a really good guy and seems like someone you'd want to be friends with, have a beer with, hang out with his family, like seem like really good people. Clearly he's smart, successful guy. But it does feel a little bit like he's over his head at being the lead dog. Because his skill set, like, there's a hard part about being a scout coming up, the skill set of doing everything.

The job, you're managing a $250 million payroll. Think about that. Your job is a GM, and I know you don't write up the specific contracts, but you are choosing how to allocate the funds. A lot of people that become CEOs have some sort of either financial or marketing background that specifically impacts the product, where you scout, which is extremely important. But unless you are taught in depth on how to manage the negotiations, who the hell teaches you how to negotiate? I never negotiated until I got really into radio.

And even early on I had an agent, which I did not need. It was like an $80,000 contract giving someone 10% was one of the worst business decisions I've ever made. But like when I deal with calling, even before the volume started, like it's good to work on those skills. And you have to work on them. And you feel more confident.

You've got to just be prepared. You're not, you never negotiate. And all of a sudden, Now you're negotiating and the information, I would completely understand being overwhelmed. And it's why a lot of GMs do get overwhelmed. Because you're dealing with something you're not comfortable dealing with. Now, some teams allow that guy to do a lot of that stuff. Right?

Like ultimately, Casario with Belichick was doing a lot of things that you needed to do when he was going to become the GM. Take it off Bill's plate. But that's because he was a coach, right? Bill had a lot to else to do. If you're the GM, you're not outsourcing a lot of stuff in terms of like you want to do the negotiation. And it just feels like him and Brandon Brown. It felt like they were just over their head. And it was, I think, the way the league views it as pretty embarrassing.

Now, if you win games, none of that matters. None of it matters. but in recent memory, what would push you toward, yeah, they're going to start winning games. They've really struggled for a long time now. They had the one year where they had an incredible season,

they won nine games. So I think, I've said this before, I'm not rooting for anyone to lose their job, but it's pretty clear if they're not good, and Sequan is freaking awesome in their division, and the Eagles win,

in 11 games and win the division or in the playoffs, we saw the owner. How is he going to be happy? I don't blame him. Put yourself in his shoes. But okay, listen, I understand running backs. This guy's our best player. If he went to the Bears,

it's why Joe Shane was hoping he'd go to the Bears. Go to the Bears. Go to the Vikings. Go to the Texans. He went to the Eagles, the best run team in his division. To me, he could not go to the Eagles or the Cowboys. Or you got problems.

because if he's successful in one of those two places and you're not, you are done. I don't know how else anyone could see it any other way when you watch the owner. Like, I'm not making up this opinion. I'm just watching the owner and you go, that's clearly how he's acting. I mean, he said he wouldn't be able to sleep at night if he went to Philly. I don't blame him. Is his star player who they drafted number two overall, who's, listen, he's not Walter Payton or Barry Sanders. but clearly when he's healthy, he's a high-end player.

And the Eagles, who are well-run, want him. The volume. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel,

help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win.

A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, the Clifford Show.

This is a place for raw, unfills of conversations with ads, athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to The Clifford Show on the IHeard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. On the Look Back at it podcast. From 1979, that was a big moment for me.

84's big to me. I'm Sam Jay. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. with our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite authors. Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s. It was a wild year. It was a wild year.

I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.