The Herd with Colin Cowherd - 3 & Out - TJ Watt signs MASSIVE extension with the Steelers

Episode Date: July 18, 2025

John Middlekauff gives his instant reaction to the breaking news that Pittsburgh Steelers star T.J. Watt has signed another record-breaking contract, making him the highest-paid non-quarterback in NFL history for the second time in his career. John discusses why T.J. Watt had all the leverage in these negotiations and how this deal reflects the Steelers’ win-now mindset under Mike Tomlin. John explains why Watt is more than just a great player — he’s the heartbeat of the team, the captain, and the face of the franchise in the Post-Roethlisberger era. Plus, John explains how this impacts the pass rusher market, including guys like Micah Parsons. Finally, John answers your questions in this episode's mailbag segment. 3:41 - TJ Watt signs an extension in Pittsburgh 10:48 - What's next for Micah Parsons 20:42 - Mailbag Follow John on Twitter, Instagram and YouTube for the latest. Check out Gametime - the fastest growing ticketing app in the US, and the official ticketing app of 3 & Out and GoLow -  for tickets to all of your favorite NFL, NBA, NHL, NCAA teams. Concert and comedy show tickets, too. Go to Gametime now to create an account, download the app and use code JOHN for $20 off your first purchase. #VolumeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Happy Fugazi Friday. Here was the plan. We had some moving parts. What I ended up doing is T.J. Watt signed a big contract, so I did a big reaction to that. that we put up on YouTube right away. So I included that as well as a mailbag. So today's Friday podcast will basically just be my reaction to T.J. Watt, the Steelers, how it impacts other guys, how it impacts their franchise this season,

and just a lot of different angles from the Steelers standpoint, as well as a long mailbag at John Middlough. So not a crazy long pod, but yeah. So that will be the case today. You guys know the drill. If you listen on Collins feed, make sure you subscribe to Three and Out, as well as the YouTube page. You'll never miss anything.

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Well over $100 million. he becomes the third big name pass rusher this offseason. Miles Garrett, Max Crosby, and now T.J. Watt. The position is, you know, treated like quarterback on defense. Once you have a great one, you pay them and you pay them a lot of money. And I've been saying this for a while that the moment this offseason played out the way it did with Aaron Rogers and them trading for D.K. Metcalfe. And it was clear that the Pittsburgh Steelers, the Mike Tomlin era,

put all their chips in the middle of the table for this kind of operation. You trade Mika Fitzpatrick, you sign Darius Lay to go with Jalen Ramsey, you just change everything as a move to like, we're going to do everything we can to win. I think we all agree that even if they're better, we've seen the last couple years, like what is their ceiling? It's not to me Super Bowl, but can they win a playoff game? Can they be a lot more competitive down the stretch? and in January, and I think if you probably pulled Tomlin in the group internally,

they would say we feel a lot better about our team. T.J. had him by the balls. He's the best player on the team. He's their team captain. He's the heartbeat of the franchise. Cam Hayward said this sometime over the last week. He deserves to be a one-helmet guy. When you think the Pittsburgh Steelers, post-Rothlessberger, you think T.J. Watt, I think over the last five seasons, no player has more sacks. and he is, you know, healthy and playing well. He is as good of a player in the NFL. And he's the type guy.

Like, he's the reason as a GM you want to hit on a draft pick. You want to get a guy that you extend, that you keep. And as long as he's playing at a high level, you continue to pay. And because of the position he plays, you know, he now costs well over $100 million as his third contract. But I think once we saw Miles Garrett and Max Crosby, like you had two options. with TJ. You either give me a number that became this well over $100 million in guarantees. And I know we love throwing around, you know, $40 million a year. That number never really

means that much to me. How much am I getting guaranteed? Right. You can give me $40 million a year. If you guarantee me $30, who cares, right? It's the guarantee. And it's going to be a shorter term deal. I'm a little older, but it's going to be well over $100 million. And that's the number. So whether it lands on 110, whether it lands on 105, like we know what the fucking ballpark is. And you're, you Aaron Rogers is 41 years old. You trade for D.K. Metcalf, which I'm sorry, I didn't quite understand. Now, I think there are mixed opinions. Like, I do trust Tomlin if he wants to short Minka Fitzpatrick.

And safety is a position on defense that I think is highly debated in football circles. It's importance. Clearly, they think he's trending down. He's going to need a new contract, and they punt it. Now, you could argue they pun it for Jalen Ramsey. They also got Johnny Smith with Arthur Smith knows. but they go now we got two press corners but our most important aspect of this team is our front.

We draft a defensive tackle high. We already had another pass rusher to go along, TJ, but TJ is the heartbeat of this thing. TJ Watt is the Pittsburgh Steelers. Some franchises like Lamar, Joe Burrell, Patrick Mahomes, they are their franchise, like they are there. He is the poster child. Even adding Aaron Rogers, it's not even close.

And TJ knew it. And once you pass the draft, even if you would entertain, like, hey, could we get two, ones for this guy. Like once you pass the draft, you're not going to do that. Especially like, if you were the Browns, technically you could have got past the draft if you hadn't extended miles and go, listen, we're going to suck. Let's train them for two ones, two twos, and just start over tank this year. It just completely suck. But the Steelers, they don't play that game. Like they are obsessed with, we never lose. It's like, well, did you win? Well, not really. We got

work down the stretch, but hey, aren't 1-10 games, and like that means a lot to them, which I respect. You know, tanking is such a big part of sports now. I mean, so many basketball teams do it, baseball teams do it. Even in the NFL, the second half of the season,

it's like, eh, let's just kind of keep losing some games, right, to get a good draft pick. And listen, I understand it. But the Steelers don't play that game. And I think they showed their true colors when it came to this contract. They are pretty loyal when it comes to their defensive guys.

When you think of the ethos and the culture for my entire life going back before I was born, the Steelers are like a successful version of the Bears. Defense, defense, defense, you know, and obviously Rothesberger changed it for a little bit, but they have stayed competitive because of good defensive players post Rothesberger. And I mean, last year, their, I mean, their defense kind of fell apart as well, but I thought the quarterback experiment kind of blew up in their face. And listen, they're doing it again this year. But I think if you got Mike Tomlin over a cocktail,

he'd say, I think our defense is going to be a lot better. I feel a lot more confident in proving our cornerback position. Even if Jalen is a player whose arrow is pointing down, we can play this bump and run style, which we've always loved to play with two long corners and let our pass rush dominant. Because the easiest way to make a decent or average defensive backfield look good, get after the quarterback.

And in that conference, or that conference for sure, but in that division, you're playing Lamar, which in a weird, ironic way, the Steelers have actually, I think, I remember last year, it's like, for whatever reason, over the last several years, they've played him the best. And I think part of that is they're comfortable seeing him. You know, he gets, he plays so many of these teams, especially any one-off scenario, like the rotating divisions, you don't see them very often. So all of a sudden you see him, the speed, the way he,

plays, he just destroys everybody in the regular season. But the Steelers are pretty comfortable playing him. And obviously, Joe Burrow, you got to get after him. And you weren't, you know, we have seen a guy like TJ, you know, I guess it was different because Khalil Mack was, it was his first contract. But Aaron Donald, those two guys held out. And John Gruden traded Khalil Mack. Now, there were financial ramifications there. But when you do something like that, it doesn't help you in the upcoming season. So even if they could have got a hard. haul for them if they weren't comfortable giving them this amount of money, you would have had to do that before the draft.

And once they didn't, like, we all knew the end result. It was just when's it going to get signed and what is the exact number going to be? But we knew the ballpark. And this is probably the least shocking thing of the offseason. I also think now this has a kind of a downstream impact on Micah Parsons, who I just saw headline that are like, I don't know what the Cowboys are doing. Like we're ready to play ball here. Like these are the numbers, Jerry.

You know, I mean, and Micah's number because it's a longer term extension, he's a younger player. It's much more like Nick Bosa was a couple years ago, which I think the guaranteed money was 120. I bet Micah wants $140 million guaranteed. So it's like, Jerry, are you just going to wait and ultimately give him the amount of money which he is going to get? And I think there are other young pass rushers who still have a year or two to go before

their extension look at these numbers go you know if jalen carter keeps playing at a high level if will anderson keeps playing at a high level these defensive linemen i i know mike florio thinks this collusion thing is going to end the nfl all i'd notice when i watch you know these player contracts is everyone keeps getting more and more money and it's never been a better time obviously quarterbacks are paid like NBA stars but if you are a really good defensive linemen outside lineback or pass rusher if you can get after the quarterback it pays such a premium. It really does.

And obviously, if you can block those guys, pays a premium. We have so many guys, pass rushers, tackles, wide receivers, and quarterbacks just making an insane amount of money. Hell, even these corners now, because if you can cover these guys, you can make a lot. But T.J. Watt gets what, I guess we kind of knew what was coming. And here's the thing. When you bring in the Rogers, let's call it a circus.

I mean, it is a little bit fair or not. You didn't want a scenario where training camp starts at La Trobe, homo Arnold Palmer, and have T.J. not there doing a holdout, being a situation. That becomes not just uncomfortable, but it becomes kind of chaotic. And with Rogers missing basically the entire offseason, like you want training camp to be very focused, everyone on the same page, not just a chemistry building moment, but like, I don't want circus.

like Jerry's like Micah Parsons probably ain't going to be there right I mean the 49ers always have a hold down certain teams like just buckle up you're going to have people just no show right uh Trey Hendrickson the Bengals hell their second uh shamar Stewart they're gonna have multiple guys just not there I don't think the Steelers wanted to deal with that at all they they didn't want that they didn't want a scenario where in the middle of training camp you got tj watt barging into the Rooney's office again like art let's get this deal done like let's just get this fucking deal done in the middle of July. So whenever the veterans are supposed to report in a week, he's one of the first guys there because he essentially in a weird way kind of is our

quarterback. And we need him setting the tone. This is how we practice. This is how we operate. We have some new young guys that we're going to be very dependent on. Who do you usually look up to the best player on the team, which is him? So if you do have these aspirations to like kind of break the cycle, which I respect the Steelers this offseason. We'll see how everything worked. But that Minka Fitzpatrick move was almost like a wake-up call to everyone in the organization. Like, there are no sacred cows here beside T.J. and Cam Hayward, who've kind of earned it. But everyone else, your head better be on a swivel. Because if we keep getting our ass kick down the stretch in the playoffs, we will get rid of every single person here. This is the NFL.

And we get a lot of credit for being really loyal to Mike Tomlin. This is not how it works. like we were loyal at different times when we were winning at a really high level. It's easier for the Chiefs to be loyal. They go to the Super Bowl every year. We get worked in the first round. This is not okay. And we can't just repeating the standard is the standard. The standard is the standard because the new standard is when 10 games get worked in the first round and go home.

And I think that Minka thing had to be a pretty big shock to the locker room. Right. And now you bring T.J. who is there to like, hey guys, now it's time to everyone, get focused and try to break the cycle that has been these last handful of years that for Steelers fans again their standard is so much higher like so when I say kind of been embarrassing you know you have fans of half the league like the Giants be like we die for that well yeah their standards a little higher you know or the Jags or the Cardinals like yeah they ain't you they're one of the premium brands in this league who have been winning for 50 plus years

and everything that's been going on like this is an opportunity to change it. But the only way they could change it and maybe have like an 11 win team that can kind of win a playoff game and who knows, you just playoffs are weird. It's one game scenario. Maybe win a couple, right? I don't think that's going to happen, but clearly they do is with this guy. And the rate is the rate. Right? I mean, this is, there's not like, this isn't some desperate individual that you can low bowl. This is one of the, I mean, he's going to go down as one of the better players in franchise history. Now, a big part of that with the Steelers, like, win a ring.

Now, I think it's going to be difficult, but you got no shot to compete for a ring, for the AFC, for the division. If you don't have this guy lighting up for you, not just week one, but start a training camp. Like setting the tone. I mean, that's a huge part of football. This isn't just show up and roll out the balls or, you know, in baseball. We'll figure it out. And by middle summer, like, this is football. Like, you set the tone for your season for the year.

for the team's long-term toughness for everything in early August even though training camp is so dramatically different than it once was there's still an element to that in this sport and having him there and having him participate even if he'd give him some days off

because he's an older player was vital and they clearly valued that because they got it done and they avoided any T.J. Watts nowhere to be found. God, I'm fired up. The British Open is here.

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Bet must win to receive reward. Minimum minus 500 odds required. Bonus bets expire 168 hours after issuance. For additional terms and responsible gaming resources, see dkng.com slash audio. Hey, it's us, the Jonas brothers, and guess what? We have some big news. What's the news, new? Huge news.

We created our own podcast called, Hey, Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty. Yeah. pretty wide range of podcasts throughout there.

But this one's extra special. So how do we actually come up with a name, Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it. We were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band before Jonas Brothers.

This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast, where people could call in and say, hey Jonas. and then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys.

Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smigel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier.

This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and Headwere writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple

podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The French Open is one of the toughest tests in tennis. And I know firsthand because I competed there myself. I'm Renee Stubbs, and on the Renee Stubbs' tennis podcast, I'm breaking down everything happening at Roland Garris.

Every match, every upset, and what it really takes to win on Clay. Genschen won. I mean, she went down in three to Rabakina, but I'm delighted. She's an outsider to win the French for me. And she likes Clay. Listen, Lena Rubakina is arguably the best player in the world right now, and I actually can win on any surface. Because if she's serving, well, good luck.

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Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I thought I'd do a little mailback. Ease on into the weekend.

Call it a little weekend mailback. Not much going on. Take a deep breath for another week until we get to the grind of football on a daily basis. Watching a little British Open today looks cool. I mean, listen, I have a lot of respect for those across the the pond. If it was that cold and windy and wet all the time, I would never play golf. We will do a mailbag, though. At John Middlecoff. At John Middlecoff is the Instagram fire in those DMs. Get your questions answered here on the show. We will start with Miles. Texans fan.

I'm curious how we should go about handling the upcoming salary cap situation with C.J. and Will Anderson. They were both will be due for extensions, as we know, and both are top five picks in the same draft class. I can't remember a team ever having a situation like this. Do you try and extend one of them a year early if they would be willing, even though I'd imagine they'd both want to wait because the market gets reset seemingly every offseason? Or realistically, are we going to have to break the bank for these two? Well, I think there are a lot of different variables here.

In relation to your question, they play premium positions. So if Will Anderson, who I think is going to be one of the better players at his position for obviously health permitting the next eight to ten years. I mean, that's a long time, but definitely the next five, six years. So he's in no doubt about it. CJ, big year for him, right? Coming off, incredible rookie season, weird offensive season. Offensive line was bad.

Let's face it, they pointed the finger at Bobby Sloick, who as I was talking to a buddy in the NFL, basically tried a copy and pace version of Shanahan, which he knows the offense in the first year it worked pretty well, but as time went on, people adjusted, he got really exposed. And I think the Texans think they upgraded an offensive coordinator. They can be a more balanced operation. The offensive line is a question mark, but Niko's a stud.

They draft the wide receiver really high from Iowa State. The running game, we'll see. I mean, that's, I mean, a huge part of a quarterback. It helps the quarterback a lot. I mean, it just does. They bring in Nick Chubb. Does he have anything left? But I would expect a bounce back year from CJ.

But bottom line is, if you get a top front guy, defensive tackle, edge rusher, outside linebacker, you know, pass rusher. He's a double digit sack guy. That's the most important guy you can get on defense. And they already have a star corner. And obviously the most important guy you could have on offense is the quarterback. But I think what we need to learn about CJ, like,

do you feel comfortable? Like if he has a bounce back year and two of his three years have been exceptional, it's like, okay, he's the top six, seven quarterback in the NFL. But if he has a year again like last year, you're like, well, then it's, I think you pump the brakes, right? If Will Anderson keeps doing what he's doing, he's an auto try to extend after year three. To me, C.J, not saying he's going anywhere,

but this is a big year for him, the offense, the offensive coordinator. You know, D'emico made a big move firing Sloick, who was his buddy. Not that he deserved to keep his job, but I'm sure it wasn't easy. I think Texas are going to be good. I mean, they're going to have one of the best defenses in the league.

I mean, honestly, they have an opportunity to be right there, with teams like the Ravens, teams like the Broncos. I mean, their defense is going to be awesome. So offensively, if they answer the bell, I was looking on Draft Kings, you can get them plus 110 to win the division. I would be stunned. Now, obviously football injuries can happen,

but just based on what we've seen the last couple years, they're not going to win the division? Like, it's pretty crazy that their odds aren't like minus 150. Kind of love it. Last year I got a little bullish on them. I bet them to get the number one seed. I wouldn't go that far. And listen, I don't think they can win the AFC,

but I think they can be pretty good. Was listening to you talk about Nick Sabin, and I had a random question. Which football coach could you see being a great U.S. president? What traits and qualities would translate well into that role? Bill is the goat, but would that mean he could also be the goat president? I would say Sabin and Belichick would have. absolutely zero chance to be good presidents. I mean, one, I think being a good politician,

those days are fucking dead. I mean, look at some of these people all over the country that are in office. I mean, it's a joke. Now, maybe it's always been a joke. Maybe the older you get, you know, if I was 40 years old in 1978 or 1995, I would have said the same thing. And maybe it's just different because of social media. But listen, I'm from a world where we respect the private sector, the government is kind of a laughing stock where I come from. So I just think these guys would never be used to playing politics. Like Bill didn't play politics in New England for 25 years. There were no politics for Nick Saban.

He did what he wanted to do. He was a fucking dictator. That's how most college. That's how Kirby is now. It's how Coach Kay was. That's how John CalPari is. And that's how all these basketball and football coaches are. I do think if you throw back to the 90s when, you know,

the Bobby Bowden, type guy, Steve Spurrier. I think their personalities were a little more quote unquote political back in the day. Not that they didn't have a lot of juice, but one politics doesn't pay. I mean, so many of these politicians, that's

like their job. They go in poor and come out rich. It doesn't quite make sense, but I don't know. I think politics is a fucking joke. Hey John, another question. I mean, obviously it's not, it impacts our lives, but these people that get up in arms.

I just, I don't respect these people. I mean, I really, I just don't. And that's why, I honestly, I think in the football community, the respect for most politicians is pretty low. It's really low. And I would say that in most industries. Now, you need them sometimes. Obviously, you've got to do what you do.

But, you know, in football, you know, for political stuff, the league office handles a lot of that. And sometimes you're team president if you're trying to get a stadium. the coaches, they don't deal with any of that bullshit. We talk about GMs and owners in the NFL. How does your knowledge, how to your knowledge, does the league look at Mickey Loomis and Gail Benson? Are they good and well-respected?

Or are they a clown show? What's up? Love the Pot. New Orleans native, born and raised. I feel like a lot of broadcasters forget about the length of time the Saints dominated, and now we are consistently, shit on. I get it, trust me, since Drew and Breeze have left, uh, since Drew and Sean have left. But why is Tyler Shuck and Kellynne Moore getting swept under the rug? Kellynne Moore just won the Super Bowl. Great Co. Selling a lot of other NFL films analysts

said he's really good. Shuck had the second best film coming out of the draft. Another quarterback sucked, uh, class sucked compared to last year. Also, I hear what you're saying. I think, you know, it's funny. Like, was the Patriots a well-run organization, or did like Bill and Tom know what they were doing? Right? Now, obviously they got Brable now. Maybe they can run. But if you just gave Robert Kraft some random coach, he's probably going to suck. Like, the owners a lot of times have nothing to do with it. I mean, they do. Once they get the right guy, they support him. But if you gave Jeffrey Lurie the wrong coach, he will lose. Right? If you give Robert, craft the wrong coach, he will lose.

I've seen Jed York look smart with Jim Harbaugh and Kyle Shanahan and look like an idiot with Jim Tom Sulla and Mike Singletary. So I don't care who you are as an owner. Stan Cronkey like the Rams are well run. Why? Sean McVease their coach. If they had hired Joe Judge, right? Everyone thought the Giants were one of the model organizations for about a decade with Tom

Coughlin and Eli Manning. Look what they've been for the last. seven, eight, nine years. So I think it's very, very coach dependent. And when you had Sean Payton, he's really good. Look, he goes to the Broncos, they're immediately good. So, like, is Mickey Loomis know what he's doing? Yeah, I mean, he's, he had a front row seat working hand in hand with Sean. But like, if he doesn't, if you give him Dennis Allen, he's going to suck. Is Kellan more a good head coach? I don't know. I don't know. To me, the Tyler Shuck thing, history would say that guys like him are not going to be good players.

I mean, he played in college for seven years. Like, I'm sorry, call me old school, archaic way of thinking, but he was in like the same recruiting class as Brock Purdy. Love the show. Should the Rams and the Rams fans be worried that they're starting left tackle, they just paid now as blood clots, and the right tackle got a complete shoulder clean out and was not active during minicamp? last year we started out

without our starting tackles and went one and three you know what's funny is I think I'm going to do some like division previews over the next couple weeks and I think if you just ask most people the Rams get a lot of credit and rightfully so

for how good they looked against the Eagles right they were right there they could have easily beat the team that dominated Washington dominated the chiefs they were playing really well at the last point of the season. And even the previous year, they easily could have beat the lot. I think, did they play the Lions? Is that who they played?

No, I forget. Did they play the Lions? Yeah, they did in the first round, right? Maybe I'm getting that wrong. But whoever they played, I'm pretty sure they did two years ago. They've won 20 games the last two years. 10 and 10. I think that sometimes when we talk about them in the off season, like they're the Lions or the

Eagles, like they've been rattling off 13, 14, 15 wins. they're not the betting favorite to win the division. So I think the Rams very top heavy, they're very dependent on like four or five guys. Now granted, those guys, when Stafford's playing, when Puka's playing, when Versen Fisker playing, they're going to be good, but they are not, to me,

some like eagles, when the lions are healthy, the Ravens, like their roster is not quite that. They do have a lot of young ascending talent, but they are a couple injuries away, like you said, from being in... They've started really slow the last couple years. Their talent, they get by a lot with... They're tough on defense now.

The young guys in the front is good. Their coaching with Sean is elite. And Stafford on individual games can go toe to toe with anybody. But now, they add Devante. Offensively, they should be better. Or just more dynamic. But Cooper Cup was actually sneaky

more productive than you realized last year. So, I don't care who you are. If your tackles, and listen, it's July 17th, so we'll see what happens over the next, they don't play a game for almost two months. If I take anyone starting two tackles away,

again, I don't know, these guys both might be ready to play, but in a game, you could be playing a team that wins three or four games, let alone a playoff team. You can easily lose that game. So offensive line depth, the amount of good offensive line that have come into the league over the last decade

is diminished relative to what it used to be. So most teams, and I wouldn't say the Rams, you know, have some like superior offensive line. Though Ryan Wendell, Fresno State guy, their offensive line coach, I was just DMing with his wife, Meredith, who when I was at Fresno, worked with us in recruiting. She lives in L.A. because I was texting her. She DM me, congrats on the baby. And I, she laughed at the picture I reposted of McVeigh.

I'm like, how does he look so good? Is he on Botox? He's like, he just, he works out and he eats really healthy. But he looks the same, like his picture, year one, year nine. But Ryan Wendell, who was taught by Pat Hill in college, went on to play in the NFL as an undrafted free agent, started in the Super Bowl for the Patriots, and he learned from Dante Scarnacchio is a really good offensive line coach. I mean, really good. He's a guy that probably more people should talk about, I think, internally.

I mean, Sean knows how good he has it. Ryan's a really, really smart, tough guy. I mean, ask Tom, I know you can't ask Tom Brady. Neither can I. I don't know the guy. But if you did ask Tom Bray, your Belichick about Ryan Wendell, the way they would speak about him would be really, really highly. So I think that's offensive line coaching is pretty important.

Like, I've seen it forever with the 49ers. I'm like, besides Trent Williams, who are some of these guys? How are you competing at the highest level with this group? It's like, I think Kyle would tell you, Chris Forrester is pretty elite. jump and our scheme. It's no different McVeigh, like our scheme. Now, the difference is Kyle avoids the pass as much as possible. McVeigh likes to, McVeigh's like kind of like a 40-year-old in-shape Andy Reed.

If you could, if McVeigh had to pick a game plan, 10, you know, like the NFC championship five years ago when Kyle and Jimmy Garoppel threw it eight times or 10 times, like Harbaugh, two years ago with J.J. McCarthy against Penn State, I guess Harbaugh. Harbaugh was suspended, but they didn't throw it in the second half. And JJ, I forget the exact, like, eight attempts, five attempts, ten attempts, whatever it was. Harbaugh, Kyle Shanahan, Mike Shanahan, those guys live. Like, if they could win a game with throwing like less than five passes and just run the ball down your throat and physically embarrass you, they would play like that.

Where Andy, like, if he could choose, he would be the opposite. He'd rather score 50, throw it 50 times. throw like 10 all-go specials. McVeigh's that, which is kind of weird because McVeigh came up with Gruden and the Shanahan's, which actually are much more old school

running the ball. I thought Gruden maybe just because I'd forgotten he had been out of coaching for a while on TV. It's like, oh, this guy's like a passing game guy. And then you watch him. Gruden wants to run the ball. Gruden wants to play old school football. And I just think that you are who you are,

so your personnel really did. dictates. Obviously, Sean can adapt when needed, but we all have things we lean on in whatever we do, and he leans on the bass. That's why he loves Stanford. Question for the pod. You were talking about all the college quarterbacks other than Manning. I was talking about the SEC guys. I wasn't talking about them all, but the SEC guys. What about Riola at Nebraska? He has only started in one year, but he flashed some great stuff. My buddy is a diehard Nebraska fan, so I watched him quite a bit. I really think he and Matt Rule are going to put together a great season. Wanted to hear your opinion.

Well, like anybody, I was excited to watch him play. He, I mean, there are certain players in college or, you know, I don't follow, like some of you guys, if you're a big college football fan. You're probably a little more dialed in on college recruiting. And certain guys, like Arch Manning, you knew that name when the kid was 15 years old. But for the most part, there are a lot of recruits. You're like, never heard of this guy, right? and Riala is a guy that I had heard of at like 16 years old. Started in Arizona, transferred to Georgia.

He was going to go to Georgia, and then he goes to Ohio State. Then it's Nebraska. Obviously, Nebraska paid him millions of dollars. And I was excited to watch him play. Pretty underwhelmed. In fairness to Dylan Riala, his dad, Dominic Raiola, the center for the Lions. Football's hard. And being a true freshman, playing quarterback in the Big Ten, a conference.

that is really good on defense. I thought he was not good last year and kind of self-destructed at times. There was just like an instinctive aspect to his game. Now, you bring in Dana Holgerson, who might not be the greatest head coach, dynamic offensive mind. You know, I just think it's going to be fascinating.

One thing that I'm just very interested in moving forward with college, I mentioned this with Colin. when you give a guy like Riola, whatever he's making, several million dollars a year. Now, he grew up rich anyway, but regardless, you're given him millions of dollars.

Right? I'll give you an example. Derek Carr. When Derek Carr got to Fresno State, while his brother wasn't like, obviously, you know, he wasn't, his brother's money wasn't his.

He did show up driving a Hummer. Right? So, like, the brother, their family's so close, it's basically all under the same umbrella. But Derek shows up driving a Hummer. A lot of other guys driving hooptees and shit at Fresno State. But Derek gets the same scholarship and the same lifestyle as everyone else on campus.

Has college roommates when he gets to Fresno State like anyone else. No different than Matt Leiner would have or Cam Newton or whoever, right, forever in college football. Now when I pay a guy like Riola all this money, you know, I talk to people, they say a lot of these quarterbacks live in a huge house. kind of by themselves. They're not necessarily living with their teammates. So you're kind of out of touch. There has to be a little resentment.

If I'm like a third-year guy, let's say I'm like a guard or a defensive tackle. And I'm a guy in Nebraska. I'm one of the best players. I'm making some NIL, but I'm going to be one day, probably like a second, third, fourth round pick. I'm an NFL player one day.

I'm one of our best players. Just a high-level guy. Wouldn't I resent that a little bit? I have no problem if you come in, you're making a lot of money and you're good. but like I'm busting my ass and I'm watching you making all this money and you suck

I just think that these things get weird I think there's a lot of pressure on Riola being good if he's not like you could argue that program could kind of crumble they went all in on the guy I mean they treated him like he's like Luca or something it's like well that's fine

as long as he's a good player listen we can debate Quinn Ewers all we want you have you have put Quinn Ewers on a good team, he's good enough to win you a bunch of games. Carson Beck, same thing. Again, we can nitpick these guys all we want. Like, I've seen Carson Beck on a really good team, win a lot of games.

I watch Rioja fucking, you know, melt like a, like putting an ice cube in an, you know, an Arizona summer day. And I don't know. There's no disputing his physical characteristics, but one thing we've seen now, time and time again, college football, definitely the NFL, is like just having a huge arm or being able to run, like you've got to be able to play quarterback. And maybe the hype, maybe the offense, I don't know. But I was, I was down on the experience. Now, like I said, Dana came in at the end and took over, but you get an offseason with them, excited to watch

just the whole thing kind of come together or not. I mean, it's going to be, rule, Rola are going to be a big college football story this year. Hey, it's us to Jonas Brothers. And guess what? We have some big news. What's the news? Huge news. We created our own podcast called Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it.

We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts throughout there. But this one's extra special. So how do we actually come up with a name Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it. Well, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band.

The four Jonas Brothers. This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast, where people could call in and say, hey, Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast.

But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, Not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, S&L's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel

help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The French Open is one of the toughest tests. in tennis. And I know firsthand because I competed there myself. I'm Renee Stubbs, and on the Renee Stubbs

tennis podcast, I'm breaking down everything happening at Roland Garris, every match, every upset, and what it really takes to win on Clay. Jenchian win. I mean, she went down in three to Rabakina, but I'm delighted. She's an outsider to win the French for me. And she likes Clay. Listen, Lina Rabakina is arguably the best player in the world right now, and I actually can win on any surface because if she's serving, well, good luck. Consider this your court side seat to the French Open. Listen to the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever

you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's superhuman. documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year.

Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I have a question regarding Lamar, Jalen, and Josh, and all the quarterbacks that run. Why is it when a quarterback throws for 3,500 yards, and rushes for 500? we treat the guy like a scrub, but the 4,000-yard passers, some barely have over 200 yards on the ground. Why is it that after the likes of Cam Newton Michael Vick isn't to discuss total yards to make it fair for everyone who isn't just passing? Also, please explain the Josh over Lamar MVP.

Lamar had the first team all pro, but lost the MVP to the second team all pro. Josh Allen, one more win that important if Lamar had almost seven. hundred more yards. Yeah, I mean, I just think people were going to be hard-pressed with a guy who had crumbled before like a cookie in the playoffs giving his third MVP.

I think that played a huge factor. They're just like, we're going to make this guy a third MVP and we've watched them in the playoffs, crumble like a cookie. Now, last year was his best showing in the playoffs that second half against the bills. But I think people, and I would have had a hard time. Like, Google some of the three-time MVPs, right? The Brady's, the Mannings, the Farves.

Like, it would have been not saying that he doesn't deserve another MVP sometime in his career. And I understand it's a regular season award, but let's face it, there are a lot of different variables there. Listen, you could argue a lot of different things. Like, why do I get an inter, if I throw 10 interceptions on the season, if four of them bounce off my wide receiver's hands, how is that my fault? Now, I think you can counter it. it's like, what about the five that were dropped by DBSs? Right? Now, in this one, it's very black and white.

It's like, well, I threw for 3,800 yards, and I ran for another 700. Yet some guy throws for 4,500 and doesn't run at all. It's the Jalen thing, because I'd be like, well, Jalen only threw 18 touchdowns, right? It's like, well, yeah, he runs for 14. So it's like he accounted for well over 30. These are questions that are just never going to get answered.

How does guaranteed money signing bonuses incentives per year affect the salary cap? Does the cap limit include incentives and bonuses? Do teams often have leftover or unspent money on the cap at the end of the year due to unfulfilled player incentives? How does that all work? The bonus stuff I think carries over to the next year. Because obviously if you have a million dollars with a cap space and have to pay out $10 million with bonuses, it'd be impossible. and it's a hard cap. So it carries over to the following year. Guaranteed money, obviously by definition, is the money you know you have to pay a guy.

But you can manipulate the salary cap by putting. If I give you, let's use Trace Smith. I give Tray Smith $70 million guaranteed. Well, if I give him a four-year contract, right, and that's either an extension, so it's actually I have him on a contract for five years or in his situation, he was on a franchise tag so it's just the next four years I can give him all of that money up front

I give him a signing bonus a $70 million and then I can distribute that over the life of the contract however I want right? It's why you see a lot of guys

sign contract extensions and their salary cap number goes down because if I give you a 30, a 50 whatever million dollar bonus I can then manipulate it and amortize it

for you accounting majors over the salary cap. But it's why, you know, in these other contracts, specifically basketball, when I give a guy $200 million over five years, it's $40 million every year. Or maybe $38, $39, $40, $41, $42, right, however it is. Football is never like that. It's why you have to treat the salary cap like a puzzle and use the guaranteed money. to your advantage. Now, the more and more you want to give out

in upfront signing bonuses, the more and more cap you can create. So the more an owner is willing to pay cash on individual years, the more they can load up their team. Right? Not guaranteed to work. No one spent more actual cash in bonuses than Jimmy Haslam over the last four years.

But I think like second and third, we're like the Eagles and the 49ers, who have won a lot. They have spent a lot of money. over the last several years upfront giving out bonuses and manipulating the salary cap. And there are a lot of teams that are somewhere

in the middle. They're like, yeah, we'll kind of do it and kind of not do it. I would say this. Like, I think it's easy to go, well, why wouldn't you just have so much money? I think some people try it, and then it backfires. You're like, what am I doing this for? And football, more than basketball or baseball, like if I do sign

Aaron Judge or Paul Skeens or whoever in baseball, unless they get injured, I know they're going to be good, right? And in basketball, if I get yoke itch or whoever, it's guaranteed. In football, it's like some guys fall off a cliff, some guys get an injury or never the same, there just feels like there are a lot more variables because of the physicality of the sport. And the coaching scheme turnover, they're just, there are more variables than any other sport. And I think teams get hesitant to try to manipulate it with money because it backfire sometimes,

then it feels like you wasted it. And once you get burned, right, if you're like, God, I spent, let's just say I'm an owner. And I'm like, you know, typically I would have given X in bonuses. And this year I gave $75 million more because we got aggressive. And then all of a sudden we went six games. I'm like, what a waste of fucking money. And then my franchise is getting shit on that whole time too.

As a season approaches, what defines a great NFL season is the league better served by dominant teams and many mediocre ones or by upsets and parity with traditional powerhouse is struggling. I'm a lifelong football fan hoping to see the likes of the Lions, bills, and bears succeed. As just a sports fan, I think it's very, very well defined in most lanes what works, right? Even if we want to go to individual sports. I talk about I'm not even a UFC guy. When are they at their best? When they have an absolute rock star superstar. Boxing, same thing. Give me Mike Tyson over 10 good boxers. Basketball, one not even debatable. The best teams in the biggest markets are when the league is thriving the most. Same thing with baseball. World Series

smoked the NBA finals. Not by accident. It was the Yankees versus the Dodgers. Football is the one sport that it truly doesn't matter. I mean, it really does. Doesn't. Whether it's Lions versus the Chiefs or, you know, the Giants versus the Steelers. Pittsburgh is a smaller market. The Cowboys versus the Jets. There's no, obviously, that would never happen. But my point is, the markets truly don't matter in football. And because of the nature of the sport, you know, I think this number has changed a little bit. but at one point in time it was like 80, 85% of games are one score going into the fourth quarter.

A lot of football games in the NFL, college is different, are just by nature close. So I don't think there is, to get a good season, you need close, exciting games. But I don't think we're in this sport as determined by colleges, right? College, like Indiana, that's not going to work on a yearly basis, right? You need the Ohio states, you need the Michigan's, you need the Georgia's, the LSUs, the

Florida's, the Ohio states. I already said that twice, but that's how, I mean, Ohio State's the biggest brand in the Texas, SC, Oregon, it's important. You know, in the NFL, if like the Chiefs, let's just say they had a season from hell and went six and 11, like the Niners. They just lost all these close games. It was the opposite of the last year. Blue them all, had some injuries.

It was a disaster. which big picture it actually wouldn't be because they'd get a high pick and they kind of get to reset. But let's just use that example. And the Chiefs, which are the biggest brand in the league, they would get flexed out of some of their games

and they would just pivot to whoever's playing well. Okay, the Broncos are in first place. Their games would get flexed into the better games, right? Or the Patriots now are an 11-win team. Their teams, they would get flexed into the games. You would ride the bills. You'd just pivot. Where you just, the Thunder had a remarkable season.

They won like 67 games. They won the NBA. championship and they just don't move the needle. I mean, they were historically low rated in the same with the Pacers, even though the Pacers have much more history like when I was a kid. My point is that the football, it doesn't necessarily matter, as long as the games are good. Question for the bag.

Longtime Bucks fan and really excited. What would you say are some of your favorite, I get asked this all the time, your favorite jerseys, maybe a top three, I said this the other day on the mailbag. I'm not a, I don't. It's just one element of the sport, of the conversation around the sport that I just pay no attention to. I'm not a jersey guy. I don't own jerseys. Obviously, there are some jerseys that are easy to make fun of, like some of the color rush on Amazon Prime Thursday Night Football. Like, I'd rather just have you play the traditional jersey.

But I've never been like, the Raiders and the Steelers are so much, obviously the Jags can feel a little, you know, franchises like that. but I'm more of a traditional guy. Look, I just like stuff that I grew up on in terms of the jersey. It's why I have a lot of respect for Penn State, Alabama, USC. I just, and I got no problem with Oregon, but jerseys are just not something I spend any time thinking about, truly. How would the Niners or commanders operate at all without Jennings or McLaren next season? Don't they have to pay these guys? They don't have a choice.

Well, Terry McLaren accounted for 13 touchdowns. 13 touchdowns. So if he disappears, where are you making that up from? I'm not saying he's going to disappear, but that's pretty important. Juan Jennings accounted for 77 catches. In a season where they lost IEuk, they had a lot of wide receiver issues. And their offense was actually pretty good. They just were bad in the red zone.

But he was extremely productive for him. Yeah, I mean, both guys have leverage. The 49ers, you know, people think they're going to suck. I just look at their schedule. I think it would be, I mean, they're the betting favorite for a reason, but he is their top wide receiver, at least going in early in the season, until Ricky Pearsall. Now, I would say the difference, Terry McLaren's a true one, right?

Or true one, I mean, obviously he's not as good as some of the true ones. But he's a guy that if your team's good, you can rely on him to ride him, right? And obviously the quarterback in him have an excellent rapport, and he's their top option, even trading for Debo. He's a better player than Debo. The 49ers, you would say is like, well, George Kittles better than Joanne Jennings. And if McCaffrey's healthy, he is as well.

So I guess it'd be easier for the 49ers to get by for a minute. But I think both guys would be a problem. Okay, we'll end on this. College football head coaching, USGA gin rankings. This means the handicap for the, different college coaches. The best handicap, Trey Lamb is a plus 1-3 at Tulsa.

Dilfer is a 0.7. Now, in fairness, Dilfer was a scratch before he got into coaching. Most of these guys are coaches. I would say in a perfect world, if you told me, what would you like your college football coach

if you're at a Power 5 program, his handicap to be? You would like him to be decent because recruiting boosters is important. recruiting people, money around the program is important. So he's got to be able to play golf. To me, somewhere between like a 10 and 15.

I would say, if you're a single digit, might be playing a little too much. Of all the guys at the top program, like Hugh Fries, 7, Lincoln Riley 9. Like, that's, I would, you could even go with 7 to 15. Kirby Smart is a 12. Belichick is a 12.

Ryan Day is a 12. I would say 10 to 12 is my sweet spot. Like, my coach has a little personality, can socialize, get out, takes it seriously, likes to compete. But also, is it spending in so much time on the driving range that he's trying to become a four? Now, a lot of these guys, they play probably a lot in the summer and the offseason, and they don't play it all in the fall. But, so of all the guys running big programs, Hugh Freeze has the best. Shane Beamer's a nine, PJ Flex and 11. Dan Mullen.

He's at UNLV as a 12, but he's been in the media for a little while. I would pay to watch Belichick versus Ryan Day or Belichick versus Kirby in just a match-play scenario. I think that would,

if we put that thing on YouTube, it'd probably do pretty well. Brian Kelly's a 14, Wittingham's a 14. Good golf in Utah. I enjoyed that graphic. So have a good weekend. Talk to everyone later.

See you. Hey guys, it's us. The Jonas Brothers. I'm Joe. I'm Kevin. And I'm Nick. And guess what? We created our own podcast called Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. We get to ask other people questions because we're sick and tired of being asked questions.

Well, sick and tired is a strong way to put it. But, you know, tired and sick. Tired and sick. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel

help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Podcasts. Winning on Clay is an art.

The rallies are relentless. And at the French Open, only the toughest survive. I'd know. I competed there for decades. Join me, Renee Stubbs, on the Renee Stubbs' tennis podcast for no-nonsense breakdowns of the biggest matches, the toughest players, and the moments that define Roland Garris. Jench who win? She's an outsider to win the French for me.

And she likes Clay. Listen, Lennar Rabakina is arguably the best player in the world right now. And I actually can win on any surface. Listen to the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast on the IHeart Radio. your app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened.

That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo, and every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the biggest moments in sports and giving you the real story behind the headline. And we're going straight to the source, the athletes themselves. their locker room stories, their reactions in the moment, and the stuff nobody gets to hear. Listen to SportsSlice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slicalif 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. This is an IHart podcast.

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