The Herd with Colin Cowherd - 3 & Out - What's going on with Jerry Jones, Brock Purdy's future, Josh Pate joins the pod

Episode Date: October 23, 2024

John dives into the latest with Jerry Jones and how after a disaster last week with his radio appearance, he missed an opportunity to clear the air this week and instead made himself and the Cowboys organization look worse. Next, John talks about Brock Purdy and if a down season will impact his future contract. Later, CBS Sports college football voice Josh Pate joins the show to discuss everything across the “mini-NFL.” First, John and Josh talk about the 12-team College Football Playoff race and how the CFP feels as wide open as it’s ever been, thanks in large part to the transfer portal 6:57 - jerry Jones has lost it 13:10 - Brock Purdy's future 20:26 - Tua returns 25.31 - Credit to Bill Belichick 32:07 - Josh Pate Interview Follow John on Twitter, Instagram and YouTube for the latest. Check out Gametime - the fastest growing ticketing app in the US, and the official ticketing app of 3 & Out and GoLow -  for tickets to all of your favorite NFL, NBA, NHL, NCAA teams. Concert and comedy show tickets, too. Go to Gametime now to create an account, download the app and use code JOHN for $20 off your first purchase. #Volume #HerdSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, S&L's Mikey Day and head writer,

Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win.

I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Clivert Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifers Show. This is a place for raw, unfilled conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it.

Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I put on 10.

I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On the Look Back at it podcast. From 1979, that was a big moment for me. 84 was big to me. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a year, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it.

With our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite authors. Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s. 84 was a wild. I mean, it was a wild year. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, what's good, y'all? You're listening to Learn the Hardway with your favorite therapist and host, Kear Games. This space is about black men's experiences, having honest conversations that it's really not safe to have anywhere, but you're having them with a licensed professional who knows what he's doing.

How many men carry a suit or armor? It signals to the world that you not to be played with. And just because you have the capability that does not mean that you need to. Listen to learn the hard way on the AHA radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. The volume. Does your favorite NBA player have what it takes to be Crown King of the court? Find out a Draft King Sportsbook, an official sports betting partner of the NBA. Draft Kings is offering $1 million a day in bonus bets for the first 10 days of the NBA season.

That's 10 million in bonus bets. Here's how to shoot your shot. Opt in and get a daily NBA profit boost token. Pick a pregame NBA player prop to boost. If that player leads the league that night in points plus rebounds plus assist, you win a share of one million in bonus bets. Download the Draft Kings app and use code John.

That's code John to win a share of one million in bonus bets if your player is king of the court. Only on draft kings. Crown is yours. Gambling problem, call 1-800 gambler. In New York, call 878-8-Hopen Y or text Hope and Y 467369. In Connecticut, help is available for problem gambling. Call 888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org.

Please play responsibly. On behalf of Boot Hill Casinoin Resort in Kansas, 21 and over, agent eligibility varies by jurisdiction. Boyd in Ontario. Bonus bets expire 168 hours after issuance. For additional terms and responsible gaming resource, See dkng.com.co slash B-B-B-Ball. What is up, everybody, John Middilkoff, Three-N-Out podcast.

How are we doing? Hopefully everyone's having a good week. It's good to be heard. Good to be seen. On the YouTube channel, go subscribe to that. All of our content is up there. And you've got to make sure to subscribe to the Three-N-Out podcast. Yesterday's feed was not on Collins.

So if you don't want to miss any shows, make sure you subscribe to the Three-N-Out feed. appreciate everyone that listens that way but no matter what you won't miss a show we're doing them every day obviously so today we will be joined by Josh Pate who's been covering college football now for years fellow bald brother a lot of you guys have hit me up

it feels like over the last calendar plus year about having them on I've seen them all over my social media feeds shot him a DM and we talk ball for about 45, 50 minutes I also wanted to talk a little NFT before he joins us. Well, he already joined me, but before we play the interview, wanted to talk a little Jerry Jones, who went on the radio.

Purdy, who's obviously very polarizing right now, they actually play each other Cowboys Nine or Sunday night. Tua is not going to retire, which shouldn't really be shocking to anybody. Obviously, the doctors said that he doesn't have to, you know, gave him the go ahead. He got cleared. and Bill Belichick is really starting to let it fly.

And I appreciate that. It's all I want out of my former coaches or players that are talking heads. Just talk like you would normally talk because that's the good stuff. And other than that, let's rock and roll. So we had a show, reaction show to Monday night. Obviously, Colin Migo, Sundays. I did a reaction show Sunday night. So we've already had a lot of content this week.

and we'll just keep it flowing. But other than that, any other thing I got to mention, I don't think so. So before we dive into football, you know, I got to tell you about my friends, my partners, and the official ticketing app of this podcast, listen, do you want to go to a college football game? Do you want to go to an NFL game? The NBA is starting. Now, be careful.

You've got to make sure guys aren't load managing even this early in the season because Joe L&B just sat out game one. So you've got to be careful when purchasing those tickets. but the World Series, I've been to the World Series. Watch San Francisco Giants win, a couple actually. But if you, it's incredible. So if you're a Dodger fan, if you're a Yankee fan, and you have the opportunity to go with one of those games,

I cannot recommend it enough. Obviously, concerts, it's nothing like just working all week, just grinding, just working to pay the bills, make sure there's food on the table for the family, and realize, you know what, I've got to do something for myself. I want to enjoy myself this Friday or Saturday and go to a concert. Take my wife, take my girlfriend, take my buddy, have a few cocktails, maybe a few beers, and just have a good time.

Well, you can do it with me because my official ticketing app of this podcast, GameTime, you can take the guestwork out of buying tickets. You can download the GameTime app, create an account, and use the code John for $20 off your first purchase. Terms apply. Again, create an account and redeem the code, J-O-H-N for $20 off. Download the GameTime app today, last minute tickets lowest price is guaranteed. Okay, Cowboys. 49ers. I looked at the slate this morning of games for this upcoming weekend. Not a great week. It's not exactly a banner week. What last week was, at least on paper, it turned out to be pretty good, right? Packers, Houston, obviously Detroit, Minnesota, Chiefs against the 49ers and the night game. It was an entertaining week.

And the college football, a couple games were really fun in Alabama, Texas, and Georgia, Georgia, Texas, Alabama, Tennessee. I'd pump the breaks on the excitement this week. Not quite as good because people are always like, Middle Cuff, you're hype in the Thursday night game. Well, I'm trying to psych myself in because I'm watching it. And I've got to talk about it for you guys. So I got to hype my, some games are better than others. And this game this week's, you know, Eagles bangles.

Right. Even the Monday night game is Steelers Giants. You've got to manipulate a little excitement. But the Cowboy Niner game, even with their records, you know, the Niders are three and four, the Cowboys are three and three. they both have been in shambles at different points in time in this season. Currently, both are in shambles. But here's the deal.

Tuesday, typically in the NFL, I was thinking about this today, because obviously Jerry went viral last week about saying he pays their salaries, and he will get them fired, and he was just pissed off. And then even Diana Rusini asked him about at the owner's meetings, and he didn't back down. Well, I got news for you. Usually guys in their 80s that are super rich. tend to be a little stubborn.

I mean, I think that's a pretty consistent theme of really successful people who are old. They're usually not the first to go, yeah, screwed up there. My fault, guys. Or I'd like to have that back. Even if they don't totally believe it. Because sometimes it just makes it easier on everyone. Right. Hell, anyone, any married guy, you know, about to be.

You live with people. Wife, sometimes it's easy to just go, hey, I was wrong. Even if you truly don't believe it. But it just eases everything up. Jerry didn't do that today. And I was thinking about, like, dysfunctional teams. And obviously, the Jets right now are a headliner. Their owner is functioning as their GM.

And unlike Jerry, he doesn't pretend to be a football guy. So he's just doing it because he's taking control from the team. Obviously, Aaron Rogers is also the GM. He's dictating everything that's going on. And as Belichick pointed out that, like, when Sala was there, they were good on defense. Now you remove Sala, their defense is bad. So it's just a dysfunctional mess. and the Cowboys, especially the last couple of years,

haven't been any different than they were under Jason Garrett or years previously. Like, Jerry does whatever he wants. He speaks whenever he wants. He does radio hits whenever he wants. He gives his opinions. That's his prerogative. He owns the team. He signs the checks.

But I think it's kind of getting to the point where I don't think you can function like this. And, you know, I think Collins said this before and other people have as well. Does feel like we're headed down a little Al Davis, the latter part of, his career in Oakland that was just really kind of wacky. And, you know, Jerry is going on and on about poorly designed plays today, about not executing blocks, and just ranting and raving about how shitty the team has been. And then he also talks about Derek Henry, not being able to sign them because of the cap issues. Listen, I do agree.

Derek Henry, if you put them on the Dallas Cowboys, would not be as good as Derrick Eric Henry has been on the Baltimore Ravens. We're in agreement. Now, would it be an upgrade from what they had? 100%. Would he look? Would I expect him to have the same production? I do not.

So I don't think Jerry's crazy talk there. I do think it's fair when you make comments that we're all in and you have been close, at least it felt that way in the regular season, and then you just couldn't get over the top, that you would double down and try to make a run. But most families, like if you think about it, We all grow up a little different, how I was raised, how you were raised. Like, there is no handbook on parenting.

I don't have kids yet, but I'm sure I'm going to raise my children different than my brother, than you, than some of my cousins. But there are probably some non-negotiables to give yourself your kids a chance to be successful in life, whether that's just like basic discipline, whether that is the morals and the ethics of treating everyone well, just some basic life skills that I think most people consistently have that raise, you know, good kids that go on to be functioning members of society. It's kind of like a football team. Like there's not one specific way to do it. Right?

With Belichick and the Patriots forever, no one said anything. No one ever said a peep. And it was just everyone was walking on eggshells. And then he looked at Andy Reid and he looked at Pete Carroll. and it was a lot different environment in those, same with the Packers, a little more laid back historically than the Patriots. And it all worked.

Even the Giants, when they were really good under Tom Coughlin for a while in competing and winning Super Bowls, a little stiffer environment. So everyone's different. Just like every home is different. But it is really, really difficult to overcome dysfunction. Like any kid or any person I ever meet that grew up in crazy dysfunction,

It is way more impressive than anything I overcame. That, listen, was it perfect in my home? Two parents never had to worry about food. Forced me to do my homework. Like, if I didn't succeed, it was on me, nobody else. Sometimes you meet people. You're like, damn, how did this guy? What an incredible story.

And that may be looking back on the last couple years with the Cowboys, it's like, it's really hard to overcome Jerry right now. Because he never shuts up. Like, you would have thought that. week and I get it like Jerry loves talking Jerry loves doing media interviews but after what happened last week they did not play a game right he's like you know what I'm just going to take this week off I'm not going to do a radio hit this week we will reconvene after Sunday night's game and do it next week there's nothing to talk about because look at what he's getting asked about

Derek Henry and the Baltimore Ravens so I'm not a huge believer like I said you got to be the Patriots and say nothing. But this would have been an easy week to make it easier on your team, who already, when they come back, is going to get peppered about questions from Troy Aikman and Michael Irvin, who are just shitting on the team. And then Jerry kind of doubles down

and agrees with them. So he's basically just acknowledging, my coach is a dead man walking, which we already knew because he was in a one-year contract. And, like, I feel for Cowboy fans. Because clearly your team, especially when you're injured, you're not good enough. And

your owner feels a little bit like a loon. And he's been really successful for the league, his vision with the marketing. But he feels kind of like this freelancing maverick that is really old and doesn't really know what he's doing anymore. And is almost counterproductive to, in theory, the most important thing, which would be winning football games. But he might tell you just being a huge brand, that's really all that matters. And that's what it feels like he cares about more than football. and I just think you guys got to be ready because it could be a weird couple of years.

Now, they're the Dallas Cowboys, and they go 8 and 9 or 7 and 10, and they fire Mike McCarthy. He wouldn't even be fired. He just wouldn't have a contract anymore. A contract not renewed. It would be fascinating because Belichick is the complete opposite, at least as a coach,

not this version that we see on a weekly basis on television. Like, he wouldn't want to deal with that. Now, I don't know. So I just think Jerry Jones has kind of feels like he's jumped the shark a little bit. And the conversation around Purdy, I think we can do two things. The Purdy's in this camp right now that Kirk Cousins was in when he was really young before he signed. And it was, I think people think more highly of Purdy than they did that, Cousins. But you saw Dack in this early in his career.

You honestly saw Russell Wilson in his first couple years in the career No one wants to acknowledge that he's any good And every time that he has a really bad game People go all in Which I understand That's part of the business I saw Joe Missoula talking about Tatum

On a clip It might have been a clip from the Netflix show And he's like, it's a privilege to be criticized I'm like, that's a pretty sweet line Because he's not totally wrong Right It's a privilege to be criticized. No one's criticizing like Andy Dalton or Gardner Minci right now.

No one gives a shit. Right. So I think the thing with Brock Purdy is this. He's going to have to play well in some of these big games this year or it's going to get way louder. Because even last year, the talk was so stupid, it's like, guys, he makes a million dollars. So yeah, he has a bad game on Christmas against the Baltimore Ravens, one of the best statistical defenses we've ever seen.

It's like a lot of guys have. Like, most guys don't play well in those moments, right? A lot of guys that are making $40, $50 million throughout the season didn't play well. But now it's like kind of getting down nut cutting time because do you want to pay the guy $50 million a year? And I think that conversation is a lot different than the conversations previously had. Now, this notion that like, look what he's playing with. He can't make anything happen. If he has to play at $50 million with a rookie wide receiver who just got shot,

Ronnie Bell, who can't catch a cold and run a right route, Jacob Cowling, who Kyle Shanahan just doesn't like, and George Kittle, who Kyle refuses to call plays for consistently, then yeah, it would be Rocky. Just like it's Rocky right now from Holmes, who's playing with Worthy, who can play, and then a bunch of other random wide receivers. You do need some talent on the field with you.

Like, Lamar Jackson ain't exactly thrown to me and you. He's a great player, elite. He's a Hall of Famer. But you think it helps throw into a healthy Mark Andrews, likely, Zay Flowers, Bateman, and having a Hall of Fame running back behind you? Probably helps. I mean, it just does. Now, you don't get a perfect team when you make a lot of money. And part of paying you a lot of money, in my opinion, is that when we get into shit, you can put us on your back.

And there are only a few guys that can do that. So if you pay Purdy and it kind of keeps going up and down like this, I think we have to acknowledge, he's probably not a put you on my back of the franchise and carry you for years. And I would agree with that as of right now. That it's not going to be a style. He is going to need help that most quarterbacks do, like I said. But the camp of guys he's in, the goffs, the Dax, like, they need help. Jalen hurts.

Like, Jalen looks fine when A.J. Brown and Devante are out there. And more than functional. You remove those guys? He looks like the 24th best quarterback in the end. NFL. So there's pressure not just on Brock, but also on the organization. And I think these conversations, this stuff's fluid. And I just get back to, like, I have no clue how he's going to look. I would expect him to bounce back on Sunday night. One, the Cowboys defense is terrible. And two, he's consistently shown the mental fortitude to, like, not just play shitty football for a while.

but my overall theme with this is for any guy that we're not talking about an elite no-brainer player at any position, right? When you get the Justin Jeffers when you get the T.J. Watts, when you get the Roquan Smith's, Fred Warner's, whoever we're talking. It's like, yeah, just pay the guy. What are we talking about? This guy's like this guy is the best player at his position

or best two or three players at his position. You just pull the trigger. You've seen it with some of the young left tackle. it's easy. When you get guys like him, I just need more information. And I always get back to you, what's the rush? So if we end this season and if I'm the Niners and you're 8 and 9 and 8 and it's been rocky and guys have been in, I mean, Iyuk's gone. I used gone.

Debo is questionable this week because he just got out of the hospital with pneumonia. McCaffrey ain't coming back this week. Though McCaffrey, like the running game has not been their problem. But if it does get weird, you know what I'd say? Run it back another year. Play on the rookie contract. What's it going to do? Hold out.

So I just think sometimes we've got to take a deep breath. Not every good organizations, don't just give you $180 million if they're not totally sold. And the more and more information you get, the more you either are sold or the more you have apprehension and are unsure. So I think this is a good learning process for Kyle in the front office about Brock Purdy,

who obviously they really like. and they believe it. But it's a production banks business. You're either getting it done or you're not. You're either proving it when the chips are down or you're not. And I'm fascinated to watch how it plays out. I expect him to bounce back this week, though. 2-0.

My take was when that happened was when he, his last concussion in the fencing, is the NFL would step in and not allow him to play because they don't want that visual. again. And it turns out that he went to a bunch of different doctors. I was reading today. And none of them said that he should consider retirement. And one, I think it would have been very difficult.

This is an educated guess. I don't know the guy. But based on his previous actions and words, like, I would have been stunned if a week ago, Tua just said, I'm retiring from the NFL. I'm out. We're good. It's not worth it. I think a very, very small people that played in the NFL, that talk about football, even fans with common sense, expected that to happen.

I do wonder, though, because I can't imagine the NFL wants them to come back. Because the likelihood of it happening again, I think we have to acknowledge, how could you debate that it's not extremely high? Because he doesn't just get knocked out. he lays there with his arms pointing at the sky. It's happened multiple times. But the NFL couldn't force him. They're in business with the players. And the NFL PA, I think it's fair to say,

if they got involved, we'll sue you. And it would have got really messy. So maybe it was never going to be an opportunity for them to get involved if there wasn't one doctor who was adamant he was making the wrong decision. but he said he's not going to wear a guardian cap he's going to do it not surprised at all I think it's easy for a lot of people that are 40, 50 to comment on what a young person should do I don't even think it's unfair to have the opinion like this is kind of crazy because we all expect it to happen again that's what's kind of sad

is it feels like he's not safe out there and like there's a lot of money on the line. This is not a guy, like, I'm just doing it for the love of the game. You're talking 100 plus million. I think we did the math the night it happened. It's like close to $130 million if he just walked away. So I'm not saying this is strictly about the money, but you'd have to be naive to think that that doesn't have an impact.

And like, he loves playing football. He's been playing football, I would imagine since he was five, six, seven years old. It's all he knows. and most people all they know you know ideally your job isn't dangerous I saw this clip going viral about Aaron Boone on Instagram when they asked him what baseball means to him

and he says it's my life beside my kids and my wife and my immediate family there's nothing in my faith there's nothing more important it's a family business and it's all I know

the whole the whole thing is kind of what makes me go. And that's true for a lot of players, especially in the NFL. Because, you know, when you hear things about like, you know, this basketball, I think the thing with the NBA, they're really battling right now is it feels like, does everyone love playing basketball? Or are you just doing it right now because these salaries are astronomical? It just doesn't feel to the common fan like people love playing in the NBA like they once did.

And it's been bad for their product in terms of ratings. I think that's had a major because of the load management. It's like, what are we doing here? We're in football, you're either all in or you're not, especially a quarterback, because of the mental grind that it takes throughout the week, the preparation. Like, who, I'm not a big academia guy, hated school. It wasn't really for me, despite having a couple degrees. but studying for tests is not fun. And for me personally, stuff that didn't really interest me.

Actually, some of it does kind of now, but at the time it did not. Like studying for an accounting test, I'd rather like jump off a bridge. So at least football players like what they're doing, but all they do throughout the week, the majority of it, like how many hours are they really on the field? Five and a half from Wednesday through Friday? the majority of it is in the film room is taking notes is sitting there with your coach your offensive coordinator

and just grinding, preparing for the test and they fucking love it and like this is it's going to be it's going to be really bad for the NFL if he lays there and the same thing happens again

but he chose this no one's forcing him to do this And last but not least, I got to give Belichick credit. All I want when a, you know, when a coach or a player goes into the talking into a mic, whether it's on TV, whether it's in radio, whether it's in podcast, YouTube, you name it. Just give me what you really think because I've been around enough of these guys. We're all human beings. How do we all talk when we're just sitting in the backyard with a couple of things? buddies with beers.

It's just a real raw conversation. It's no different when coaches are talking to their buddies about players or other coaches or other personnel moves. It's raw and real. And then you get so many guys that go on TV, you're like, this is such, they're not saying anything. And Belichick, who historically said nothing is really, he was on McAfee on Monday, as he is every week and was asked about the Giants.

And what? He's been crushing the Jets, which is probably easy because he's kind of been doing that for years anyway. So I don't give him too much credit on that one. That's kind of been his like schick over the years is hating the Jets. But everyone else, like the Giants organization clearly means a lot to him. Won a couple Super Bowls there. Did a 30 for 30 there with Bill Parcells.

And just take a listen to him on just the Sequin situation. and his thoughts. The Giants thing, I don't really understand. He was their best player. You know, for a couple million dollars more, they could have kept them, I guess. You know, instead they got a guard or somebody, I don't know, the offensive line doesn't look very good. I mean, look, they're playing a guy at left tackle.

We shouldn't be playing left tackle. Evan Neal is drafted in first round. He doesn't play. You know, they have some UFA guards that are pretty suspect. It's a tough line. And honestly, I thought that, you know, the quarterback is, is trying to hang in there. It's just, it's been tough sledding. Good luck, Giants, fans.

Love Giants, fans. It'll turn around. This would be a big one for him this week in Pittsburgh, right? They play Pittsburgh coming up Monday night. Danny's starting. Right. Right. So, I mean, I think what's cool there is just his.

his just disinterest on even giving any credit to any of these, like how big of a joke. Like he looks at these other, like, UFA is an undrafted free agent. Like the guard you are playing is like a widget. And it's a worthless widget. And that's how coaches talk.

And I honestly never thought we would get that. And listen, like we can argue till we're blue in the face. Should they have signed Sequan? Should we not have? We saw. we literally saw the owner of the team saying this is not a great idea and I don't want him to go to Philly. That's what he said to the GM.

So it's like typically we're just giving our opinions and we argue about it. Like we can argue till we're blue in the face. We saw what it looked like from within the building. It was unprecedented access. And the owner wasn't just uncomfortable. He said he couldn't sleep if he went to the Eagles. then the fucking guy goes to the Eagles he rushes for a buck 75

he gets caught on camera that they're like hey I think it was Siriani went over and was like hey you're 13 yards short of your career high he's like I'm cool man let the other dudes eat literally what he said so it's like Sequan gets double the credit

and I just think that these are the type moments when you got Belichick who is just taking shot after shot at the general manager and I don't know. I mean, I think the hard part about these moves, if you're an owner, like what are you going to do?

Fire the GM, keep dayball, bringing a new GM and force dayball on them. It just gets really out of whack really quick. So if you don't get fired Monday morning after that game, maybe you wonder if it's in the back of his head, he's going to do it when the season ends, when this team does not win many games. but all I hope is that Belichick just keeps, you know, fire intakes. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged.

It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes,

creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clivert Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be.

Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking.

What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam Jett. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so y'all know.

I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack, so I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now, so. Thank you for finishing that sentence. Yes. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah.

For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, this is Robert from the Stuff to Blow Your Mind podcast. Joe and I are both lifelong Star Wars fan, so we're celebrating May the 4th with a brand new week of fun, thought-provoking Star Wars-related episodes. Join us as we tackle science and culture topics from a galaxy far far away, such as the biology. of ton-tons and wampas on the ice planet hot, or the practicality and corporate business sense of the Sith rule of two.

Listen to stuff to blow your mind on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience

in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fantine, Ryan Clark, Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses.

Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on Earth. Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, as we have real conversations about healing,

growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, learn the hard way. Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Learn the hard way and listen now. Okay, very, very excited. I've been seeing this guy in my social media feeds

and my YouTube algorithm for a while now. Josh Pate, a fellow bald brother, uh, he has, a big YouTube show, Josh Pate, college football show. You could find it on YouTube, go subscribe. And this guy living in the South at games every single week, firing off his opinions on everything that's going on,

not just in the SEC, but in college football at large, very, very excited. We try to go, we do a little thing called Kauff on campus every single week. And for Wednesday show, obviously college football, I'm sure you saw some of the ratings numbers. I mean, it's never been more popular. and coming from a West Coast guy, you know, the South with Sabein and Davo and Kirby, it felt very regionalized. Now, you know, the transfer portal is, let's face it, it's kind of turned it in with the 12th team playoff.

A little NFL feel where it's just like, how many teams have a legit chance this year? Your college football guy has it ever been more intriguing in terms of like, oh, Miami or Florida State or Alabama is just a lock to win? It doesn't feel like that at all right now, does it? Yeah, and I'm almost a little detached. appreciate you having me on, John. I'm almost a little detached in theory as to why that is. I know it's very common to say, look what the 12-team playoff has done to college football. I look at it, and that has a contributing factor to it, but if I still had a 14-playoff, if I still had the BCS right now, and I removed Sabin, and I injected Portal, and I injected

NIL, those elements, even if we were having a 4-team or a 2-team field this year, would still have a lot of teams in it because we're, I mean, it's not Halloween yet. And already every, every big time player has a loss. And then you've also got that 07 vibe of having some random teams like Indiana and Brigham Young and Iowa State in the mix. So I also wonder, here's what I wonder as we dive into this, is this the new normal or is this still the big boys trying to figure out and calibrate how they tilt the seesaw back in their favor. And you can either take that to mean a few big boy programs or just a couple of big boy conferences. I'm in Nashville, as you know, and they kind of had a little summit here, the Big Ten of the SEC last week to talk about the state of play in college athletics.

So I don't know where this is going. I just, we may be circling the funnel or we may be taken off. I'm just enjoying it as it is right now. Well, where I think, you know, college football has obviously always been a big sport, but where I think the transfer portal has benefited is last night, Monday night football, for example, the Chargers who were three and two playing Arizona. who most people think, you know, aren't that good. And then you're watching the game and either team can win. And for a long time, I think during the Sabin Dynasty specifically, there were a couple other teams.

Georgia came at the end, Davo in the middle. But it was two or three teams. And you were, you were, I mean, your jaw hit the floor when they lost. Now it's just not to me. And I think Kirby, and I know you've talked to him over the years, he had a comment. I don't know if it was at a press conference or in an interview earlier this year that like, you know, the big difference is my roster is just not

deep. And I think that speaks to obviously the top teams are going to be the top teams. Like Ohio State, Georgia, in theory, USC should be good. Texas, right, Alabama, LSU. But they're not going to be two, three deep as like, geez, you should see these guys coming up because that guy might transfer. So I think that's what benefited just as a football lover that has made this year. And I think moving forward, because the transfer portal obviously has had major ripple effects negatively. But I actually think it's been. cool that way. That's the big differentiator.

And that's why I say it's not so much the expanded size of the playoff field. That's the end result. That's like the North Star everyone's looking towards. But I was there. I was in Athens in like February. And we had Kirby on the show, but I probably sat down with him for like an hour or an hour and a half and just talked shop before that.

And one of the things he was talking about that I ended up asking, are you okay to say this on camera? He said, yeah, we'll talk about it. He said, I'm not losing my starters. Like I'm Georgia. I'm not going to lose my starters. What I'm losing is my twos because someone out there is willing to pay one and a quarter for my backup left guard.

And that's just not a price point I'm going to hit because they are not worth that at that point in their careers. So when I have injuries and they've had them already, Tate Ratledge, maybe their best offensive line. And he went down for a portion of this year. You are looking at Georgia or Texas or Alabama, like the cream of the crop. You're looking at them going from a one to a three. instead of from a one to a two depth-wise relative to what it used to be like. So that had already started to happen. You were talking about Sabin at Alabama.

In the vintage Sabin years, you could have, honestly, I would have loved to see this alternate scenario play out. Have Bama's backups, just take the field as a team. They're probably a top 10, top 15 team in any given year. Quarterback included. Well, then it started to wane a little bit because the portal started to bite Bama on the backup front. And Saban realized that, and he decided this is not for me anymore.

Now Kirby's like late 40s, so he's not going to decide that. It doesn't feel like I think as history goes on or as time goes on and we look back historically at that Sabin run, how wild is it that Davoswini took a program that had never been? It's not like someone resurrected Texas. He took Clemson that had never been a true powerhouse and built them up right smack dab in the middle of the Sabin, Alabama dynasty to be able to match them and then beat them twice for national titles. with no discernible advantage just baked in at Clemson. That right there in time is going to be a wild chapter of college football. Do you think he benefited Georgia at the time wasn't what Georgia is now? Some of the Florida schools were down.

And obviously his rosters, you know, you look at the NFL. I mean, it was stacked with elite players at all positions, a lot like Sabin's teams, right, on the line of scrimmage, skill guys, quarterback. That it was kind of a unique scenario for him. though you're watching his team now. I know they're not playing anybody after Georgia. Like he's still going to have a really, really good program. He's just in this unique area right where he just refuses to do transfer portal.

Or could we have like one thing I want to ask is like Florida, for example, everyone's like, oh, she's Lane going to go there. Could they go steal Signetti? Do you think the jobs, obviously a Bama or an LSU or Texas is always going to be an incredible job? But some of these jobs now that haven't really, like Florida hasn't been good for a while. You know, Nebraska's an example, hasn't been really good. I'm talking like, you know, top five. Do you think that's changed?

Like, is Florida a great job? Like, are these jobs with the portal and everything? Does Lane need to leave? And we can get into Lane a little bit later. But I'm just using that as an example. He's getting $10 million. He has a huge NIL fund to go buy players. What is the difference in 2024 where there was a clear one, you know, when we were like in college or kids?

It was obvious. You would go there. I wonder if that's the case anymore with the non-top five, six lock, you know, been good every year for our entire life. You're going to get a lot of debate on this. I know because I talk to as many people in the industry as I can on this. I disagree with a lot of them. So my answer is yes, Florida is a discernibly better job than Ole Miss.

But it all depends on what you value. They're not going to pay you way, way, way above and beyond what you can get at Ole Miss. So if it's about the bottom line of your salary, no, it does not make sense for someone like Lane Kiffin to leave. Here's what I know. Florida's problem is what Tennessee's problem was. It's not that they lack anything. It's not that the sport has left them behind. There is nothing that you cannot accomplish at Florida today that the big boys can't accomplish.

Just like for a long time, people fooled themselves into thinking the sport has left Tennessee behind. It's passed them by. It hadn't. They just sucked at making hires. And if you make two or three bad hires and a, row, you've lost a generation. You get kids to get in high school that have not known you being a winning program. Here's what I do know. Florida post-urban Meyer had allowed themselves to sink into a little bit of a complacency rut where they were convinced the logo on the helmet was what won.

And it wasn't. And they got so antiquated in their organizational structure, everything from facilities to operations. They did not match the big boys. Over the past few years, I can't sit here and tell you they've made the right hire. I have no clue what's going to happen when they're maybe he's there, maybe he's gone. It is so night and day different down there from a behind the curtain standpoint. So if you care about being able to hire your army, there is actually no place in America that's doing that to a better degree than Florida right now, which boggles someone's mind listening to this because you think, well, it must not be doing any good. They're not winning. That just is indicative of the hire that they've made or the hires that they've made, almost to the point, John, where

I've talked to some folks in the representation world. I've talked to a couple of coaches who kind of gauge like, what's Florida like? Because I get to go see all these places. I actually get to see the hood. They have such a good infrastructure down there from a personnel recruiting, strength and nutrition, sports science standpoint. I almost think it may be wise if, let's say, there's a change down there for whoever takes that job to do a little bit deeper assessment internally of who they have.

So normally it's you come in, you clean the entire thing, and you bring in your people. Dude, they got some really world-class people down there that you wouldn't know the names of per se because they gave Napier a blank check to go get the best of the best. And in many ways, he did that. And so if that's what you care about, and if you do care about your brand meaning a little bit more in recruiting, and it does mean a little bit more than Ole Miss, if you care about being able to leverage recruiting in the state of Florida, which for obvious reasons they can, I still think it's a better job. It's not going to be a better job in your raw salary dollars and cents mode,

but I think it is a better job because of the four or five added layers that I think going to making up a job and its value. Okay, let's start with the game you were at. And let's start on the Bama side. I'm a DeBore Truther. You know, as a Fresno State guy now, I've been following his career for a little while. And I'm taking a lot of heat. Now, obviously the Vanderbilt game might be a once in a lot.

lifetime. It turns out Vanderbilt's not bad. Right? So, but, you know, you lose a couple games at Alabama. I think I heard you say on a show, it's the first time they've had two losses at this point in time since like Sabin's first year. So it's pretty jarring for that fan base. I just believe in the guy. Look at his record.

He's going to be okay. Watching that game, I mean, they're riding a 17 year old wide receiver horse feeding in the ball like he's Jerry Rice in his prime. It's pretty crazy for a program. Obviously, they've had great true freshman, but how much his offense from a passing game standpoint, like he has to rely on the quarterback to kind of ride him like an NFL team would,

right? He did it with Pennix. He did it with Hainer. That's kind of how he plays. And Jalen, who was incredible in that first half against Georgia, you know, even the Vandy game wasn't his fault, but these last couple weeks, it's indefinitely against Tennessee. What's the vibe down in kind of that area are people? Because sometimes when you get, you know, an outsider to the south, I remember someone told me this, an outsider to the south, even if they're good, If it doesn't go well early, it could kind of snowball the negativity and there's no blocking that avalanche from coming. Is this year like, can he afford to go eight and four and still have a great career or is it really hard? You've got to dig yourself out of a hole.

You're right about how the South treats newcomers. I am a Southerner. I know because I've watched it my whole life. It's stupid. Some of the stupidest things you'll see are Southerners thinking they invented college football. And I grew up down here. And I'm not throwing my fellow man under the bus. I'm saying I watched Urban Meyer coming here and dominate, having never set foot in the south.

I saw Nick Saban coming here and dominate. And the talk, although no one will admit it, the talk at the time was, way to the SEC shows these boys what real ball's about. Well, they showed you what real ball was about. So obviously the determining factor is not the pinpoint on the map as to where you were born. The same things win that have always won. And that goes for whether you're born in Sue St. Marie, Michigan or Valdosta, Georgia. DeBoer is a stud. DeBoer is one of the best in the game.

Unequivocally, he's the right guy for the job. Unequivocally, he'll win there. They are not good right now. And I'll tell you a couple of things. You mentioned Milro. I'll put this as delicately as possible. I don't think that offensive staff called up 20 designed throws to Ryan Williams in a game. I'll put that that way.

I'll go back to the Georgia game. You watch Georgia once they figured out that perimeter run and how to shut that down. Vamma did virtually nothing offensively. the rest of that game. They just built a big enough lead that they could hold on with it. And Ryan Williams made a Superman catch down the sideline. They are a very flawed team right now. They lack the toughness both mentally and physically that vintage Sabin teams had had. Saban's ladder teams lacked that.

Sabin's ladder teams were very prone to being penalized. And so you're seeing a lot of carryover here. Sabin's ladder teams didn't have the elite depth that we were talking about just a second ago. So I'll tell you another factor that's seen. deep into college football right now, and you're going to see it with any new hire. Your biggest risk when you take over a program, especially in January, especially with a loaded roster like DeBoer did, is you can't lose a critical mass of your guys. And the portal's wide open, and the current structure of the sport is everyone gets to poach

your roster, but you don't get to retaliate because there's that 30-day window. So they were having to do whatever it took to keep the roster together, and they did a pretty good job of it. So then you go into spring, John, and everyone's figuring you out as a staff, and you're figuring your roster out, but all the while, you know, he knew, I have that post-spring portal window coming up. I've got to make sure my roster doesn't get rated. I've got to have a team for this fall. And so you're going to have to pardon guys if they don't run a militaristic spring camp and run people off or run the risk of running people off because as much as the old school guys would say, well, you know what, you've got to be tough. And if you're not tough, you're not

cut out for this program. In the new age, you can go in there and be bare, Brian, if you want to. Well, then you drag a limp carcass of a roster into the fall and you go seven and five, and you don't get rewarded for running a tough spring camp at that point. So what I'm trying to say is, I think a year from now and two years from now, I'll feel a whole lot more comfortable that I'm seeing the Kalin-de-Boor Alabama than I am right now. Right now, it's like they're rebuilding the plane and they're at 25,000 feet. That's kind of the way it feels to me when I watch them. How about Tennessee? Obviously, the hype on the quarterback, you know, it's been a little rocky and he has an offensive coach, but defensively, you know, they won the game. That's really

all that matters. What was your big takeaway from them in terms of the big picture on the season? Can they win the SEC? Can they compete to win a national championship? Are they good enough on offense? They can be. They're not right now. They can be. The thing about them is their defense has bought them time. And that's not something I think most people thought they would say about Tennessee, I was up there in spring as well. I got around to as many places as I could. And when you're in the building up there, and you're Josh Heipal, Tennessee,

Nico Imalia, all these receivers they got. You expect people to be talking offense, offense, offense, and all they wanted to talk about was defense. And I don't mean on the record. I mean off the record, too. Like they were adamant. We are as underrated as can be defensively. This staff is an underrated defensive staff.

And now Tim Banks, coordinator, like here they are. I mean, they're winning games. They've won games. And if they haven't, they've kept their team in games. to give him a shot to win to the point where if you've got the kind of raw talent at the quarterback position that Nico Yamaliava is, you and I have watched college football long enough to know inevitably every October or early November, some team, it's like their rubber band has been pulled back all year and then it finally gets let go and you see like the pop moment.

And you find yourself around Thanksgiving looking at a team that's red hot and you're saying, dude, do you remember a month ago this team felt dead in the water? Well, Tennessee has been, they got shut out in the Bama game in the first half. They've been shut out three consecutive weeks in the first half. But then they started to hit some explosives in the second half. Not a ton of them. They didn't need to hit a ton of them. But if they get hot enough, they got a dominant tailback.

They've got a quarterback that may be emerging. They've got a defense they can win with. It's the kind of recipe in a year where there are no elite teams where they could probably afford to lose another game and still be a playoff team, I would imagine. So I'm not right in Tennessee. off. Dude, I've not even written Bama off, and they look horrible right now. So I'm definitely not right to Tennessee off in this equation. Wouldn't LSU fall under that category? I mean, after week one, we're like, oh, we're out of Brian Kelly. And now it's like, oh, their defense is kind of

coming on. You know, their quarterback, their offensive weapons. We know they got NFL offensive linemen. This coach has a long resume of winning. It's like, keep an eye on LSU. It's the biggest wildcard team in college football right now. So Brian Kelly, however, we could do a whole show on how the staff was put together. But that staff got totally overhauled. Southern Cal number two and LSU number one were the teams that I thought did the best job of totally overhauling and upgrading a side of the ball staff-wise in the spring. So I mean, Brian Kelly, to his credit and the powers that be down there, they looked at Missouri. They said there's no way Missouri should be better than us on that side of the ball.

And they went and got Blake Baker, the coordinator from up there. They got Kevin Peoples. They went and got Bo Davis, defensive line coach from Texas, who's been around the block and understands. And remember a few years ago, you remember John that leaked video from a Texas team bus after they had lost a game and it was dark and it's one of probably one of the softest players on the bus, whoever he was, pulled out the cell phone and he was recording a coach just going off on him. Yeah, yeah. The D-line coach or something was going next. That was Bo Davis. And so Bo Davis was right.

And the kind of Texas has morphed into what he said they should be. And he's at LSU now. So yet again, we have a team. team with a quarterback that is emerging and has shown you that he can take over games. You've got a receiver core that's got three dependable guys with a surefire NFL one. You got really good potential offensive line play. They just ran the ball against Arkansas in a bad dynamics spot scheduling-wise, as good as they've run it all year.

And their defense has continued to come on and even losing Harold Perkins. The dirty secret around Southern football circles was, hey, watch out, they may be better without Perkins because they don't try and build around him. They've actually got good enough athletes to where just watch and see. Now, that's what coaches kept texting me. Well, they look better now. You don't want to say that losing a guy was good, but they look better now in the aggregate. And so they have now got a situation where they play A&M this weekend.

How many college football fans, by the way, do you think are aware that the two teams who are tied for first in the SEC play this weekend? Because it's not Georgia. It's not Texas. It's LSU and A&M. Those are the teams tied for first. And they play this weekend. If LSU gets through that game, man, they got Bama coming into Tiger Stadium probably at night from what I'm told in a couple of weeks.

Like, that could be the team that gets downhill momentum. And as I've said, like three times in the past 10 minutes, if there were an elite team out there, it would feel like all this conversation was funneling towards the same direction. There is not an elite team out there. A bunch of them can be had. And that's, I'm glad you brought them up. That is a huge wildcar team to me right now. Who are you like in that A&M LSU game?

Slightly in LSU. Actually, when we get done, I got to break that down because as you and I speak, I am doing a show tonight where we'll do the predictions on that one. I have a very slight lean LSU, but I'm telling you, it may not be this year, but in years to come, A&M's going to be a very, very serious player in this whole mix. They quietly nailed their hire. They nailed the hire of Mike Elko. He's not flashy.

He's not a headline grabber. that team will be a headline grabber in time. They've got a good enough team to win this year. Night game, college station. That place is going to be rocking, right? See, I think that in all the talk about Neeland Stadium, I was at Oates in a couple of weeks ago, unbelievable. There's a lot of talk always about Tiger Stadium at night.

The one place, from an environment standpoint, and it kind of coincides with a quality of program standpoint, that has the chance to explode is Texas A&M. I mean, you ought to buy all the stock in A&M you can. You ought to carve out as big a market share of that fan base as you can, because that's one that could just mushroom cloud over the next few years. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games.

Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way,

this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast. The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music.

The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me, or you're just chasing down a dream, This is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes,

follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam Jek. And I'm Alex English.

We pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack all day, but just so you all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you finishing that sentence.

Yes. I don't think there's a more. important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, this is Robert from the Stuff to Blow Your Mind podcast. Joe and I are both lifelong Star Wars fan, so we're celebrating May the 4th with a brand new week of fun, thought-provoking Star Wars-related episodes. Join us as we tackle science and culture topics from a galaxy far, far away, such as the biology of ton-tons and wampas on the ice planet hot, or the practicality and corporate business

sense of the Sith rule of two. Listen to stuff to blow your mind on the IHeart radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan, Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing and we're still chasing it and we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about

wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth or are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Keir Gaines, as we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, learn the hard way. Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search, learn the hard way and listen now.

I heard a story yesterday, actually, from a buddy that is close with a coach on Georgia's staff. And that coach told them when they were getting ready to play TCU, Tuesday of that week. So they had about a week to the game. You know, the game was the following Monday. They went full padded practice. And he's like, you might as well thought this was the first scrimmage in fall camp. He's like blood. He's like, it was a war zone. And I was on with coward last week. And I said,

the one thing with coaches, and you're around these guys, you can't fake toughness. And at the end of the day, Kirby is just a tough guy. And that game against Texas was just a microcosm of everything he stands for as a coach, whether it's two deeps as deep as it is. You can't fake that edge that I can't even imagine it was like at Georgia for the seven days leading up to that game. Sark's done a good job. He's clearly improved a lot as a coach.

But if you're not truly a tough guy, and listen, most offensive former quarterbacks are not, right? That's just not like they're Lane, Lincoln. That's not who they are at their core. This is an overachieving safety who menteed under Nick Sabin. And it was on full display. And so you watch Georgia in that game, you take the second half of the Bama game. I know they've had some weird games, but you go, when they come, even with a little shaky

quarterback play, that defense, man, I mean, that's going to be tough to beat if they play like that. I mean, I don't think anyone's beating them if their defense is bringing that intensity in a game. And obviously, once they get to the playoffs or the SEC championship or some of these big games, I don't know, man. That Walker coming off the edge, holy moly. I texted one of their staffers afterwards. I said, are you guys confident you can reach in your bag and pull that out three more times?

You'll probably need that two or three more times. If you are, then that's a wrap for the season, unless bet goes down or something like that. Like, that's a wrap for the season. So it's a non-negotiable for them. The whole toughness angle, it's not about hype or momentum or motivation. Everyone's hyped up for these games. That's the big misnomer. It's not about how loud the music is in the locker room, what the pregame speech is like.

this stuff is won in the spring. This stuff is one in summer workouts. And they have, you're talking about Bloody Tuesday. That's what they call their practices there every week. Bloody Tuesday. It is violent. It's unbelievable.

It's far more taxing than the game will be on those players on Saturday. But that's the only way they know. And they'll lose a couple of guys over the course of a season practicing that way. But in their mind, they'll lose a couple of games, not practicing that way. And I want people to understand this. Okay.

I went and watched Texas. earlier this year against Michigan. And that was a game that no one cares about now because Michigan's bad. But that was a game, remember, in the time where most of the country had convinced itself, Texas is about Flash. And if Michigan can turn this into a street fight, Michigan will have a good shot to win this game. And I remember sort of talking to some of the Texas folks during that week, and they were like, what do we hope it turns into a street fight?

That's actually our game and the world doesn't know it yet. My point is, they run things the same way Georgia. does or they think they do. And so I want to put it in that context. Texas is as big and strong and fast as any roster in the country, including Georgia. If you see those guys in person and then you understand Georgia did what they did to those guys, it would blow your mind that anyone could do that to Texas. And that's really the differentiator in who gets to make $13 million a year to coach this sport. It's not cause Kirby Smart has an edge on the grease board when he talks X's and O's. It's not about how good he is in a pregame speech environment or anything like that. It is about

taking your mentality, which is just eat glass for breakfast every day, basically, but not just that. You have to be able to make an entire building full of people think and act that way. And some of them weren't born that way, by the way. Some of them, you have to put that mentality in them so that you can pull it out of them. And it's like, it's like watching a bunch of people get their hands tied behind their back and there's a huge fan in front of their face. And human nature would be to back away from it. And Kirby Smart has his entire organization willing to just lean into it. Eyes wide open, come what may. And they just trust him that it'll work out. And that is so, it's a say, it's a same thing, right? It's so simple to say. Yes. It's so simple for us to say, we just did this in two

minutes. And yet it takes a lifetime to master that. And most people won't master it even in a lifetime. But if you can, there's no limit on what you can achieve because you can get other people to do that collectively. That's, dude, that is the difference. There are guys, I guarantee you right now, sitting around busting their tail who have worked in football their entire lives, who are making $60,000 in some support staff role. And they're like, how come this? What makes this guy worth 13 million? Because he can get other people to act like that. That's the difference. That's really. the difference. So what's your take on Texas then? Is that just a kind of an anomaly game, rough matchup, perfect spot for Georgia or, you know, the quarterback play, I was at the Red River game,

and he was, I understand he was coming off injury, but he was a little shaky, and I thought Sark kind of schemed around him. They ran the ball well. He gets benched in that game, and it was, it wasn't shocking. I mean, now, it was, clearly he just wanted him to take a deep breath. He was going to go back to him at halftime. But I don't know, man. I'm a little, because you watch that Michigan game where you were, it's like, God, this guy looks like a top 10 pick. He was awesome. And then as the season goes on, you're like, well, Michigan's pretty terrible. Not, but again, like in a vacuum, he was great in that game.

If he plays like that, they're going to, they're going to be a national title contender. But if he plays as shaky as he has the last couple weeks in spots, like you just throwing picks and throwing balls all over the place, it, it is a little risky for them, though their defense is a lot better. What are your thoughts on just the UR, Sark situation for coming down the home stretch to the playoffs. I think Sarks is good as as anyone in America at what he does. Play calling,

design scheme offensively. He is as good as anyone in college football. So if his best is not enough, then you're just looking at a powerhouse in Georgia. I'd be interested to see if that game happened again, how much carryover we have. So Texas got stoned running a ball, which is a non-negotiable.

You've got to be able to do that. You're probably not going to be Georgia. You've got to get enough out of the run game. I mean, Bama played him in the SEC title game last year and beat him. they got enough in the run game. You got to be able to do that minimum. The other part about that that was funny is Georgia's defense did a great job at forcing turnovers.

So they had, I think, six scoring drives. Four of them started in Texas territory. Another one started at the Georgia 45. So if we play that game again and nothing flips other than average starting field position, I wonder how the game plays out. I wonder if it plays out different because sort of in a low-key manner, Carson Beck didn't play good. the other night.

Carson Beck's been, you could argue he was worse. He's been turnover prone all year. So now if you could promise me that that's going to flip, then Georgia's your slam dunk national title favorite. But as long as that vulnerability is there, then I certainly would lean Georgia in a rematch, but I'm not sure how much of that game we saw the other night will be copy and paste.

I know the elements of it, like if you can't run the ball to a minimum degree against Georgia, it's going to play out a different way, but your result would probably be the, the same. I'm just saying if anyone in America is going to be able to dial it up, I would trust Sark to be able to dial it up. And if he can't, Georgia just earn themselves a national title, basically. Because, man, outside of Ohio State, Oregon, and we'll see how that plays out, doesn't it still feel to you like until shown otherwise, that's kind of your

final four that we're working with? I feel like there may be a little drop off past those four still. I do wonder with, you know, before in the final four, like once you got to the final four, you just Once you win that one game, you basically got 10 days to get ready. It was such a unique environment, right? The hardest part of the NCAA tournament is getting to the final four. So football, you get one shot, you have a bad half, all of a sudden, look at Georgia against Alabama. One bad half, you're just behind the eight ball, you got to have, you got to almost be perfect in the second half. And that's where I think, I don't know.

I mean, I think the best teams, now historically in college football, some of the great teams, did not have like superstar NFL quarterbacks. That's kind of what it feels like Georgia, obviously Carson Beck, you know, looks more like a third day pick than he does a first round pick at this point in time. But good teams have always won national championships like that historically. Now, it changed a little bit recently, right, with a lot of guys, number one or top 10 picks being national championship leaders from Borough to, you know, Tua's and, you know, Trevor Lawrence. But I don't know.

I didn't do a degree, yeah. I do think this 12-team playoff, We're just going to have an upset. It feels inevitable this year, at least the way so far the season's played out, right? Here's what I hope. If that happens, then that's fine. I hope what doesn't happen is attrition-based upsets. As much as people may from 50,000 feet say, oh, this is great, man.

More games equals more randomization. If more games equals your quarterback gets hurt, like Garrett Nussmeyer goes down. Yeah, I agree. I agree there. Like, that's not good. That's lame. Yeah, an upset happened. But I think if we just flat out get into a situation where, yeah, in the aggregate,

the totality of a 12-team field leads Iowa State to be in a dog fight with Oregon in the fourth quarter, that would surprise me. And if it's a straight-up football game, I don't care what turnover margin is, but if it's a straight-up non-injury impacted football game, that's wonderful. I'll still have to see that kind of stuff to believe it. But if it happens, that's wonderful. What was your takeaway being at Austin Stadium watching those? two teams playing just a pretty epic game. I had to turn my phone off. So here's,

had you been there before? I've been there one time a couple of years ago for a UCLA game. So it didn't really compare to this. So as you know, we have a bunch of cathedrals called football stadiums in the south. And most of them are unbelievable. And the pageantry and everybody's year revolves around a few Saturdays, preferably at night in those places. So I go up to Outson for the Ohio State game, just deafening. Husky Stadium last year for Oregon was the same way. So I come back home and I tell my brethren down south, hey, these places may be like 40,000 less capacity, but on elite Saturdays, they really don't take a back seat to many places. And so I went on a CBS show the next day and they asked me

to rank, you know, the environments that I've been in. So I said, Autson was the best Big Ten environment I've ever been in. And I've been to the white out at Penn State. And that's wonderful. That's the only other thing that compared, John, to what I experienced at Odson with Ohio State. The test you can do is you just close your eyes. And at that point, you can't see how big the venue is. Just listen. You can't hear it. It's unbelievable.

And sound just rains down on you. So I say that. And it's met with a predictable result. And that is, everybody disagrees. But then you push people on it. And you find out 90% of the people who are disagreeing have never been there. They're just using the law of mathematics in their head. Well, 60,000 people can't be as loud as 100,000.

Well, I mean, if your place is shaped like this and their places shape like this, then yes, they absolutely can. It's it's acoustics. It's science. I'm not going to pretend to know how to explain it, but it is. So I thought it was the best spectacle for selling Oregon that you could have ever had. It was probably the best recruiting day they've ever had. I was there Friday with the staff and I know they had a lot of visitors in there,

but forget about visiting. Just picture yourself being from Myrtle Beach, South Carolina. You couldn't get there, but just watching that display on TV. And also, think about this. from a longer form perspective, Oregon, when they've won, it's always felt sort of gimmicky. It's always felt that they can't do it the way the big boys do so they very effectively find an alternative way to do it. Oregon, for the first time in the program's history, can win going straight up toe to toe with Ohio State, straight up toe to toe with a Georgia or an Alabama.

And it's because the mechanisms of the sport have sort of had a confluence with them hiring Dan Lannning. And now in terms of talent acquisition, they can go to the south. They can go to the East Coast and they can convince guys to come there and they're really, really good and like they're assassin based in the portal. And so it's not gimmick. It's just grind. I mean, they can grind out wins now. And I don't think that's going to change anytime soon. So all that being on display along with the environment, I don't know that you've ever had a more effective Saturday, all encompassing for Oregon football than you had for that Ohio State.

game. It's funny in that game. It was obviously a huge win for Lannning who has had an awesome team these last couple of years, but was 0 and 3 against DeBore. And last year, they were, they were, I think, you know, nine point favorite in that Pac-12 championship game in Vegas. And that was, they kind of got, they kind of got worked. I mean, they got run on. Washington out rushed them. That was a DeBore. Hey, if Saban wants to retire, I'm ready. Right. So now on the flip side, so it was a massive win for him. And he, he was highly thought of before. But, I don't want to say it validates it because they got a long way to go, but he's going to win a lot of games, clearly, keep winning.

Ryan Day, who wins a lot of games? I mean, that record against the top team speaks for itself. What's your takeaway in just that narrative of his career for a guy that has this incredible winning percentage, but is what? One in seven now against top five or six teams? Yeah, they're basically the eighth or ninth rung on a ten rung ladder. They're close. They're not being blown out in these games.

They're normally one possession. You remember that Georgia's semi-final game with them a couple of years ago. It's a missed field goal away from them playing T.C. They easily could have won that game. It's, it's, and so on one hand, I think to myself, is the trajectory that a ball comes off a foot? Really the difference in this guy being a king and this guy's sucking? I don't think like that. But it kind of is, but it kind of is.

But I know what, I know how result-oriented this business is. So I get both sides of the equation. And if I were an Ohio State fan. I give and give and give just like the Georgia folks do. I give and give and give just like the Bama folks do. We sell our stadium out. We're invested. We're passionate.

We're like an NFL team in Columbus, Ohio. So I should have an insanely high expectation on degree of return for that financial and emotional investment. So I understand that you can't lose to Michigan three years in a row. I get all that. So I'm not an Ohio state fan, though. I'm just observing the program. My take is you're really close.

And I always, I always with Ryan Day lately, have had to do the comparative analysis because there's a perfect corollary to this. We just talked about him a few minutes ago. It's Kirby Smart. Ryan Day is basically Kirby Smart. You may say, no, he's not. Kirby's got two titles. Well, I don't mean 2021 and beyond Kirby. I mean 2020 and before Kirby.

So 2020 Kirby, unbeknownst to us, is one year away from winning a title. I'll scratch that. Let's go a step further. December 2021. one Kirby Smart has just lost the SEC title game to Nick Saban and Alabama again. And you won't find anyone with the Stones in the South to admit this. But there was this chart. There was this little graphic on social.

And it wasn't a field goal game if I remember. Oh, it wasn't. No, it wasn't. Was it? Yeah. And so what they had started to do is they had made this little blind resume A, B scenario. And one of them was Mark Ricked and the other one was Kirby Smart. And their records and everything wins against top 10 teams.

It all looked identical. And Kirby at that point was like, Owen whatever against Nick Saban in Alabama. And I'm going to tell you the exact phraseology that kept getting thrown at that guy, can't win the big one. That's what they kept saying about him. He's good, but he can't win the big one.

And what are we really doing here? If he can't get over the hump, can't win the big one, all the usual phrases. And then he won the big one. And then he won another big one. And then it was off to the races and he's the best coach in America. And it's the best program in America.

and the difference is so negligible. The difference in terms of process is the exact same. It's just that they kept applying the process. They did all the boring coach speak stuff. They kept chopping enough to where they finally went their way. And it went their way a couple of times. And then they got the program momentum and then save and retires. And so like here's my only, my only ask after that Ohio State Oregon game.

I went on Columbus radio and they were wanting to kill the guy. And I'm like, can we? we at least wait to see how this season plays out. So if they just lost by one on the road, they're still favored to win the conference. They're one of the favorites to win the whole thing. Can we please, you can do me the favor of just letting me see the season play out? Because that season we're talking about saw Kirby get another shot at Bama a month later and beat him in Indianapolis. That's Bryce Young's Alabama.

They still beat him for the title. So they're still right up there to win the whole thing this year. Like it's not the end of the world. You know, I'm a noted Ohio State hater. one of those where I just didn't really like them growing up for no real reasons. It's not like I went to school against them or anything. The difference I would say, and I'll say this for Ryan Day, the Georgia loss and the Ohio State loss aren't bad losses. His teams, I mean, he at that, that Oregon game, they showed

up ready to kick their butt. I mean, if it wasn't for an early created fumble by the defensive line, it looked like they could be up multiple scores. I mean, they were shoving the ball around him. So they, he had his squad ready. The Michigan games were bad. And that's one that's, it's hard to shake. Kirby took over a Georgia program that obviously had some issues. What Heipel did at Tennessee has been very impressive. I do think there is some merit to win Harbaugh as born. Like he did take over kind of a freight train at Ohio State.

It's kind of like DeBoer at Alabama. Like the programs had been an upward trajectory, the recruiting standpoint, they had recently won national titles. And I do think it's fair to just go like Kirby, we knew he was such a good coach because you were watching what he was doing. Could he win the big one? But he had to me more equity.

like, I'm sorry, like, beating the crap out of Minnesota, Purdue's and Rutgers. I just think people at Ohio State is like, I've kind of numb to it. It just doesn't matter to me anymore. And I think there's, I do understand, it's probably obviously overaggressive in Columbus, but I do think some of the question marks with him specifically, like some of these other guys, like, have just earned more equity of like, remember what it was like before me? Like, you can't, Ryan Day can't really say that. Yeah.

But so here's my follow up. I agree with everything you just said. My follow up is always, like we, we, we. We circle back to what we originally were talking about. You asked me the same thing a lot of people asked me. And that is, hey, what do you think about Ryan Day? And what I told you is eighth rung on a ten rung ladder. That's what I said.

So then you and I go down this whole road, just like any Ohio State fan would, and I'll circle back to the same things. Like when they tell me James Franklin's overrated, I'll circle back to the same thing. All right. I said he's the eighth rung on a ten rung ladder. I didn't say he's great. I didn't say he's elite. So do you disagree with me? And they'll always say, no, I guess I don't.

I mean, that's the take. The take is there's some stuff that he's done that hasn't been good enough. Now, I will say this. He did grab the baton from a program that was running at a very high level, which means you're just running off momentum for a few years. When you get half a dozen years in, though, it is your program. And if you're not the real deal, the program will have regressed. And there's some revisionist history with what Myers teams were doing.

Myers teams played a ton of close games. They got that 2014 year where they ended up getting on a run with Cardo, Jones, and you don't take that away from anyone. But I mean, it's, it's not like the program has steadily regressed every year. The one thing I wish they... I agree there. The one thing I want for them is they've been beaten by Michigan three consecutive years, and Michigan has been a less talented roster three consecutive years. And I've looked at Ohio State, and they can recruit any athlete they want, therefore they can play any style they want. And I'm thinking to myself, why would you ever be a team whose identity is its wide receivers? Why is your identity? Why is your identity?

not offensive line. Why is your identity not sledgehammer? Why is Michigan? Why can they go through you? That should never be the case. So I thought the course correction for this year was going to be that of adopting the mentality and installing the mentality of a team that is a little more hard-nosed. And maybe you don't have 3,000-yard receivers, but in the aggregate, you end up being a better football team. And it's still a little early to properly diagnose that. but man, they kind of got it taken to him physically a little bit against Oregon. So that's the biggest concern to me right now. I do think there's probably more pressure on him, maybe not to win the national title, but to be a pretty big force in the playoffs,

probably at least be in the title game than any other coach. Right. Kirby's minted if Hypole and some of these guys just make the playoffs. Even Sark, I mean, what he's done with that program. Dan Laning is going nowhere. Not saying they would fire the guy, but I don't think they can just afford to lose like before they get to the final four. Even the final four, depending on who they play.

Like this roster, because I'm with you, they're running backs are pretty good at Ohio State. I mean, so it's like I would slam the ball down people's throat, which I would imagine, like that's what they're going to need to do to win the national title. Though I actually was pretty impressive Will Howard in that game. I thought he looked pretty good,

but the ending kind of unraveled on him. A couple more things before I get you out of here. You told me you're going to the boy, State UNOV game, which is our like Georgia Bama or you know, it's a big game out for us Mountain West, former whack people.

Do you think, because I don't think it's possible unless he ran for like 5,000 yards, did a non-power school player or non-power 4 because we've seen non-like Bama kids win it. Can Oshan Genti win the Heisman?

Could. Because I don't think he can. I don't think he will. I always hesitate to say never, because if I think there's a 1% chance, I'm not going to say never. So that's kind of stat nerd stuff. I don't think you will. There's a lot of romanticism around guys like that. But remember the year Mark Ingram won it at running back?

He had a terrible game against Auburn. He ran for like 30-something yards. And then they won the SEC title the next week. He ends up winning it. And my point is, at the tailback position, if you play for a major brand, you can have one of those games baked into your stat profile. And there's still so much aura around the helmet that you wear that you'll just be pushed over the finish line. The second Genti runs for 63 yards in a game, that's it for him. Like, there are people who are willing to have his name in the conversation right now that will participate in actively yanking the rug out from under him.

If he has one bad game, John, that's not even to mention. And what if he just gets dinged up, as tailbacks often do, carrying the load of mail that he does. So I think it's a contingent also on does a quarterback get hot? Does Travis Hunter stay injury prone? There are probably some other variables there, but I'm with you. I'm going to watch him Friday because I want to be able to say I watched him in person, but I don't know if we'll see him on the stage. I think we'll see him in the crowd in New York.

I don't know that we'll see him on the stage. What I think has a chance to be a cool moment is if they run the table and if they are the 11 or 12 seed and they're playing like LSU or someone and he has his like step curry in the tournament moment. It's like, do you remember when Austin Gentie ran for 157 yards and three touchdowns against LSU and one of the bigger upsets we've seen in recent memory? That that would be just the opportunity for that would be pretty cool. I didn't think about that.

I didn't think about. Because you never really get that in college football because the final four is always just the big boys, right? Yeah. You would and no one really romanticizes the G5 conference title race. So we never really have that Davidson, you know, round of 64, round of 32 moment. Used to happen a little bit in the bowl games, but even that, like, remember when Boise beat Oklahoma.

Who do you got to win the Natty as we sit here right now? I was, so I still have Ohio State because I picked him in the preseason, so I'm not going to come off the pick. Recency bias, I can't ignore what I just watched Georgia do. I can't. It's hard for me to ignore that. And so if I knew those teams were playing Saturday, I would probably hold my nose and still take Ohio State. But, I mean, secretly, I'd be logging into every account I have laying something on Georgia. I think there is still.

Do you think Georgia would be favored in that game? I do not at the, I think there would be a very slight favorite at the moment. I mean like a point or less. I still think odds makers are very high on Ohio State. I have this fight all the time. I'll have it on my show tonight about who Ohio State would still be favored against. which is worth nothing more than what a pregame odd would be on a on a on a matchup. But I'm still thinking there's a little bit more runway for this team to build up speed than maybe the rest of the college football public does.

So I'll stay with my Ohio State pick right now. Let everyone know where they can find you, obviously YouTube. Well, Josh Page's college football show, basically wherever you want to search. I think I made the most foolproof name ever because if you think you've forgotten the name, name. The thing that you would search is the name of the show itself. So anywhere, podcasts, YouTube, wherever you want to get it, it's there at your convenience. You've got an easy name, too, to type in, you know, sometimes milk coffee. You know, it's harder to spell. So it's just Josh Peda. I'm jealous of that for the YouTube algorithm,

man. I really appreciate that. Enjoy watching Gentie this week and keep crushing, bro. I appreciate you having, John. The volume. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an a cappella band with their between songs banter.

Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get. your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win.

I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me. Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Cliford Show.

This is a place for raw, unfills of conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to the Cliverd show on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcast, or

you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged.

It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days,

I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On The Look Back at it podcast. From 1979, that was a big moment for me. 84 was big to me. I'm Sam J.

And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. With our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite authors. Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s. 84 was a wild year. It was a wild year. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Hey, what's good, y'all? You're listening to Learn the Hard Way with your favorite therapist and host, Kear Games. This space is about black men's experiences, having honest conversations that it's really not safe to have anywhere, but you're having them with a licensed professional who knows what he's doing. How many men carry a suit or armor. It signals to the world that you're not to be played with. And just because you have the capability that does not mean. that you need to. Listen to learn the hard way on the IHard radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. This is an IHart podcast. Guaranteed human.