The Herd with Colin Cowherd - 3 Points with Chris Mannix - Chris Forsberg on the Celtics

Episode Date: October 14, 2023

Chris is joined by Boston Celtics reporter, Chris Forsberg to preview the Celtics. Will Porzingis be a big enough upgrade, is Payton Pritchard going to be the surprise of the NBA this season, and how important is year two going to be for Joe Mazzulla. #Volume #HerdSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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See sportsbook.draftkings.com slash football terms for eligibility and deposit restrictions, terms and responsible gaming resources. This is three points with Chris Mannix, part of the Volume Sports Podcast Network. It is the show where we tackle the three biggest topics in the NBA right now. Still the preseason, so we're isolating specific teams.

We're going to get into that reminder to subscribe to the volume feed on AMP. We are live on AMP right now. Subscribe to the volume feed, subscribe to my feed to get the first listen of this show every single week. So with the season about 10 or 11 days away, I want to zero in on the Boston Celtics, the team that the NBA GMs, in their infinite wisdom,

have labeled as co-favorants to win the NBA championship this year coming in tied with the Denver Nuggets for percentage of the vote. A lot of people bullish on the Celtics. I've got some questions about. about the Celtics to unpack that and much more for bringing Chris Forsberg. It's a great job covering the Celtics for NBC Sports Boston. And Chris, why do we start with the question about the roster itself? Very busy offseason for Brad Stevens and this Celtics front office.

Marcus Smart goes out. Grant Williams goes out. Robert Williams goes out. Malcolm Brogden goes out in Drew Holiday. Chris has Porzingis. Jordan Walsh, a whole bunch of other guys that might make the roster

but probably won't play. Big picture. Is this roster better than the one that finished last season? Can you find me a hot take guy who would argue otherwise? Are you on their not better island? I might,

I'm on the paddling in between those two islands. Let's call it that. I don't think I'm on the not better island, but I've got my take on it. So let me get yours first on the Celtics roster. So look, man, if you know, there's been no one in the Boston universe who has probably slobbered over Robert Williams and Marcus as much as I have in recent seasons. And I will fully admit, it's like, it was weird seeing them shipped out.

Marcus from a, he's just sort of all we've ever known in the Brad Stevens era from coach to GM. And then with Rob, you just thought like the way he differentiated them in 22, it was hard for me to envision a move that they would make. And yet, like, even in my. completely biased, defensive-loving, Rob Williams, slobbering way, I cannot sit here and tell you that they're not better, right? Like, there's certainly question marks. Will Porzinga stay healthy? Will Drew Holiday continue to be impactful at 33 and beyond? But if everything checks out right, I think their ceiling is just much, much higher. And even no one's going to ask for GM Forsberg's

opinion. But like even if I had to sit there and when you start pouring over it, like there's no way you don't make that Drew Holiday deal as much as I was attached to Rob because it just makes you that much better as a team. And right now, you can, I would love to have seen them develop, but come on, you're going for a title now and that's all that matters. Let me ask you this before I give you my take. Do you think the Celtics make that Drew Holiday deal if the, I mean, look, it's a chicken of the egg game because the blazers got Damien Lilly because they gave up Drew Holiday. But take that part of the equation out. If the. Blazers don't upgrade with Damian Lillard.

Do the Celtics go out and get Drew Holiday? Probably not. I think they were pretty, you know, again, they were pretty content with their roster. I think the Lillard trade made Brad Stevens and his group sort of sit back for a second and be like, okay, you know, is there something else we can do? And if I don't know if it was anyone other than Drew, if they would have done it, we hear the stories about Brad going into Danny's office back when he was a coach and saying, I want that guy. And they're just making a little bit of a push for him back. whatever it was 2020 or before he went to Milwaukee. So I think it had to be the right player, the right situation.

The ability to go get the guy that got discarded and is probably highly motivated to go against your chief rival probably factors into it. But yeah, in a vacuum, like, let's just say the buck's for whatever reason we're willing to move on. I don't know if they necessarily look for that trade. It's just sort of they were ready when it came down. It was clear from the beginning. They were going to strike because they were motivated to get that player.

All right. So I'm not going to go full scalibre. and declare this team to be the best in the NBA. I watched that clip that made the rounds on social media where he said every GM and coach would want this roster. I don't necessarily buy that, but I will say on paper right now, they have a slightly better roster. My concern is the players I'm looking at on paper may not be the most dependable. Now, I love the backcourt. I think Drew Holiday is a, I'd say a slight upgrade over Marcus Smart at that position.

Drew's won a championship. He's not this overwhelming. He's not a very good half-court offensive player. But I think his shot selection is going to be a little bit better than Marcus Smart. Part of that GM survey you saw as well, best perimeter defender in the NBA, GM said it was Drew Holiday by a country mile. I think it was 50% of the vote went to Drew Holiday. So you're not missing a beat defensively with Duraladay stepping in for Marcus Smart. I think Derek White, equally productive at the off-car position.

They'll make a good back court. They'll be very good on both ends of the floor. And look, organic growth alone is going to make the Brown-Tatem-Tatim-Brown combination better. I mean, I think Jalen Brown getting his contracts and takes some pressure off him. You know, Jason Tatum knows he's going to get his contract. They're going to take steps forward. Maybe Tatum goes to the top three MVP level. Brown already second team all NBA, maybe he goes to an even higher level.

Organic growth, that's fine. The concern I have is the front court, which is way for thin right now. It is going to rely on Chris Dasporzengis and Al Horford to be workhorses for this team. Because Chris, there is nobody behind them. And I'm not just saying like, ah, there's nobody's nobody. Like, Wenin Gabriel is kind of the definition of unplayable in the playoffs. because he went 68 games for the Lakers during the regular season. He played 10 for the Lakers in the playoffs.

They were all garbage time minutes too. It was 3.7 minutes per game in the playoffs. So what we've seen from Wenian Gabriel, it's not a small sample size is you can probably put him in for spot duty in the regular season, but if you're relying on him in the playoffs, not going to happen. Luke Cornett heard some good things about Luke Cornett in the preseason. Maybe you can tell me more about that, but Luke Cornett was not playable for this team in the playoffs last year.

So you're relying on Al Horford, who's 37, and Chris asked Porzingis, who is chronically injured, to be durable workhorse type players for you and to be at full strength come playoff time. And I'm just not sure at this point. I'm not sure you can count on that. Like Porzingis, and I've said this before on NBC and on this podcast, Porzengis was effectively in a contract year last year. He was playing for that extension. He was playing for that new deal. guys always play well. Guys always turn out to be more durable than they

they actually are in those types of situations. Al Horford, he's entering the first year of a new contract. And I think the Celtics, correct me if I'm wrong, but the Celtics are going to go out of their way to keep him at like 50, 55 games this year. They're not going to play him,

you know, back to back. I don't know. Didn't the NBA just come out and say that load management is a farce? I think you can, yeah, yeah, but yeah, okay, that's quite the pivot that the NBA is making there.

But Al-A. He's going to be 38 when the playoffs roll around. If the Celtics make it deep, I mean, that's, you got to rest him. And they know that. The Celtics know that. Al Horford knows that. I just don't know if they have enough depth. And look, they picked up Drew Holiday in part because they had to match up with Danny and Lillard.

They also have to match up with that Buck's front court, right? They also have to deal with Janus, with Brooke Lopez, with Bobby Portis. That muscle is still there. provided the Sixers figured their stuff out, they're still going to have Joel and B. Tobias Harris, PJ Tucker, some muscle in that front court. Wow, throwing Tobias Harrison there is egregious. Look, contract year.

Contract year players. They turn out. They show up. I think Tobias Harris is going to have a great year. Is it a fair critique to wonder if this Celtics team has enough? And if they don't, what are the cards they can play to get someone? I mean, we were talking a couple of years ago, Chris. about this team being thin up front when they had Grant Williams.

That was the whole Yakopurdle, will there, won't they trade for him? Will they get multiple first-round draft picks for him? They didn't do it then, but they were nervous about playing Milwaukee with Grant Williams, who has been effective in the past against the Milwaukee Bucks. Now Grant Williams is gone. I know Porzing is having himself a nice preseason. It's nice. It's always good to fantasize about the rebound, the three-point shots.

Very nice. It's great. Love preseason basketball. But is it fair criticism to wonder if this team has enough up front to win at the highest level? Yeah, of course. And that's the big question, Mark. Every comment about where the Celtics will finish will be prefaced with, you know, if they stay healthy. And you are rolling the dice with even in moving Rob, who is not the beacon of health,

to rely on a 37-year-old, you know, power forward center who has had to take the second night of back-to-backs off. And Christop's Porzingis, who hasn't had a healthy season in a long time, last year notwithstanding, you know, playing for the win. where there was no pressure to be out there. And so, yeah, like, I would say that's your number one concern if you're Boston. What are the ways to alleviate it? Well, you know, cross your fingers on Luke Cornett, who has not had a very good preseason and is sort of, you know, is not probably a better fourth option than third option at center. But you brought it up. I think last year they learned a little bit of a lesson. They were hesitant to go get a Yaka-Purdle and pay the sort of

heavy price, even though I think it ended up just being like two second round picks, right? It was just that they didn't want to have to pay them moving forward because they were no see the way it was explained to me was look they offered a first Toronto offered a first the spurs wanted two first from Boston and because they didn't get it you know the raptors pick was going to be better than the Celtics picks they decided on that one I I think that ownership made it clear to Brad Stevens like if this guy fertile by me is going to be part of our successful Pam I think they knew how much he was going to be worth they just didn't want to dive deeper into to the draft war chest to go and get him.

But they didn't get him, that's the bottom. And that'll be the decision this year, where if you get to, you know, even, I mean, I could see them having to cross that bridge in November where you've got an idea now, okay, like is Al holding up, you know, how much can you run Porzingis out there? The one thing they can do is they do have the versatility to sort of go big, go small. So even if only you have only one of those guys available, you can still move, whether it's Derek White, who's not the starter in the normal lineup, but like if you go double big, but then throw them in there every time, Al's got a rest.

You can sort of patch it together and going small for them has just been sort of a signature. So it's probably not the worst thing. But I can absolutely see this team. One, as rosters start to trim down, is there someone out there that's a better third option that ends up for being discarded for salary reasons or whatever? And then it'll come down to what's available at the trade deadline. Right. And I think they'd be more willing to push in if that's their one weak spot, right? Like last year, you still had other question marks.

They never quite tapped into what 22 was and you were just hoping that Rob will get back there and you just kind of roll the dice on health and getting there. This year you might not have that luxury. You might have to just go for it. Yeah, I think they're going to have to because, look, you're right. Their small ball lineup is going to be wildly effective against a lot of teams where you can play just one big, Tatum Brown, White, Holiday, you know, bring guys off the bench. They're going to beat a lot of teams that way. But when they get to the playoffs, the Bucks are not going to play down to them. The Bucks have, you know, Brooke Lopez, who is ageless at this point, is, you know, one of the best defensive players in the NBA, one of the great boxout guys, as I hear all the time in the NBA.

Janus is Janus. Bobby Portis is vital to their rotation. You're going to have to play these guys. And if you're down one or, you know, Horford or Porzingis, or even if you have them both, I just think you're going to be more muscle up front. And the Celtics, what do they have? They've still got that trade exception. they got for Grant Williams, right? They've still got a couple of first round draft picks that they can deal. You know, it feels like there's another domino to fall here. It feels like there's one more big they've got to go out there and get. The balance is going to be, do you use up the last

bit of your powder when you know like nothing is guaranteed in the NBA and we know like there could be bigger names available like what happens in Philly and even Yannis situation was unsettled before they make that trade? So do you want to use up all your rest of your available first round picks. What are they holding it for? Like, what in your mind are they holding it for? Like, they're not the Knicks. Like, the Knicks are holding it because they're hoping to throw eight firsts for Joelle

M.B. The Celtics are not in that position. Like, what could they possibly be holding it for? So, I mean, I think you do. Like, let's just say it fizzles for whatever reason this year, which I don't think it's going to happen. But certainly, like, you know, if it does and you've paid all this money and to paid all these picks to cobbled together this roster and it just doesn't work.

You know, then you have harder conversations about what the future core of this team is. Like, you know, who are you rolling forward with? And I think we know Tatum's going to be there. Jalen Brown's name will invariably come back up. And if you pair Jalen Brown with first round picks, you're going to get into some conversation. So, you know, before the Lillard thing, I would have said, they probably had eyes on what was happening with Yannis.

And certainly you get a look at what happens with Embed. Now, are either East Coast rivals going to trade to you? Probably not, you know, and your picks aren't as sexy as other teams that are going to, like, that might struggle more. And so, but I do think they're, they love the idea of still being as good as they are, being in that mix. So it just comes down to balancing that, right? Like just how many picks can you spend unless this is a surefire thing?

And again, if they're close, I think they're just like, you know what, let's just go for it. Because this is our core for probably the next two, three years anyway, if it works. So it'll just be that balance. All right. So let's talk about wild cards with this team, the proverbial X factor in Boston. I'm going to give you mine first because mine's having himself a hell of a preseason. Got himself a nice new contract and is performing pretty well in the preseason. That is one, Peyton Pritchard, the prize.

of the Oregon Ducks, who is now a guy that went from basically out of the rotation last season to being a instrumental part or a vital part of this one. Pritch has had a weird career, hasn't he? I mean, you look at his first year, played 66 games, average 7.5 points. Look like he might be a player. Late first round pick. Looks like the Celtics might have found something. You go to last or two seasons before that, 71 games, six points per game. They dip a little bit, but he gets time in that rotation.

Last season, 48 games, 5.6 points per game. His field goal percentage, 3.4% percent, for the first time in his career. His field goal percentage drips the lowest of his career is at 41.2%. The Celtics, smartly, you know, gave him, I think, a team-friendly contract, four years, seven-plus-ish million per season on that deal. And Peyton Pritchers made them look pretty smart in this preseason. I mean, he was largely buried last year because the Celtics had a surplus of guards, right? You know, they had their starters.

They had Malcolm Brogden brought in, which ate into a lot of Pritchard's minutes. And Brogden, who in previous stops had been perpetually injured, was healthy, at least during the regular season last year. And that just gave Pritchard no chance to compete. He looks, Chris, like a revitalized player in this preseason. He looks like a guy that knows this is his shot. He's got his contract. It's a good contract for the Celtics. certainly Pritchard gets some guaranteed money.

But I get the feeling that by Christmas, we're going to be talking about Peyton Pritchard overplaying this contract in a big, big way. He's probably going to be the first guard off the bench. He can play multiple positions if he has to do. I'm a big fan of Peyton Pritchard, and I think his success is going to have a lot to do with the Celtic success this year.

Right. You need to turn on our network. Preseason P is already like, you know, the hype trains are rolling in every direction after that contract. So look, I think you're right, right? Like, he came in as a rookie. There was no real expectations. There was still more playing time at that point.

And you could see the potential there. And I think he just played free and played more like he did in college. And then the roster got a little bit more gummed up. And his minutes went down. And all of a sudden, you're like, you know, you're stressing a little bit more in those opportunities. And I just felt like every time he was out there last season, you know, he kind of just fire away.

And there were a good game to remember him spark and a comeback against the thunder. But more times than not, you know, if that shot wasn't going, he just got more frustrated to the point where, you know, he just wanted that bigger opportunity and, and requested the trade and the Celtics, you know, to their credit kind of dug in and knew there would be some more volatility with the roster probably moving forward that they, you know, became clear pretty much for like, you know, midseason that that Brogden couldn't stay here long term, especially with the new, new salary cap rules coming in. And so they kind of like made him, you know, grit and bear it through last season, but knew there would be a chance

here. Brad loved security, gave him that contract. But I mean, it's like next season, I think it's 6.6 million, less than 5% of the cap or right around 5% of the cap. I mean, that's criminal if you can get a top eight player at that. Now, like, you've got to show it in the regular season. I don't know how much if you're going to ramp up Derek White's minutes and Drew playing what he plays, how much opportunities is going to be. But look, even if he, even spot minutes, he plays like he has this preseason. I'm with you. Like, it's a great value. And honestly, if he doesn't play or if for whatever reason you don't need a third guard making that much money, it's a, very tradable asset and there are going to be teams out there.

And then maybe that's how you pair up the money to get to, you know, a future center or get the patch a hole that whatever develops in future seasons. So, uh, yeah, like I think, I think it's a, it's a win-win for, for both sides. I think Peyton's probably kicking himself a little bit right now as he's making, you know, just dominating the preseason thinking, okay, maybe I could have got a little bit more money. Uh, but you know, those things even out in the regular season and we'll see how much they play. Look, Joe's got to play them too. I mean, that's the other wild card here. Uh, you brought up how like losing Grant Williams hurts this team.

And my kick back to that is always, well, the coach didn't play him last year. So how much of a loss is it if your coach isn't willing to trust those guys? Joe has said he'll, he wants to kind of reacclimate himself to those end of the bench guys, the guys that he used to be like really tight with because that was his job as an assistant and not focus so much on the superstars and making sure Jason and Jalen get their time. But if he buys in and Peyton plays like this, yeah, the X Factor is certainly at play here. I think it's, uh, I think Peyton's going to. play because I think if for no other reason you want to keep guys like Drew Holiday fresh,

you want to keep his minutes down, you want to give him opportunities there. I did, you know, I did find a little disconcerting for Boston that the top two in the most underrated offseason acquisition categories are Marcus Martin Grant Williams, two guys that came from Boston. So there's that. So give me your X factor for this team this year. Well, only because evidently there's a publication that said he's not a top 100 player. I would drop Derek White into the sort of unsung.

Like he was Boston. People get so worked up over that shit, man. They get so worked up. No, I know. So fired up. It's so funny. And I like,

and part of me is, you know, as someone who sometimes has to sit down and rank these players. So if you do the math, right, there's 30 teams. If you take three players from each team and put them on the top 100, you should filter out your list, right?

And so when you think about that Derek White is maybe the fifth or sixth name that comes to mind when you talk about the Celtics. Okay, I get it. Like, you know, it's easy to gloss over. when you watch him every day and when you watch last season and understand how vital he was to what they did last year, you understand like he's just he's just undervalued.

And we'll see what happens with his whole extension talks and Celtics could cross that bridge and they don't have to. He's still got another year after this. So, but Brad does love that security. And I think the number you could lock him up at would be probably beneficial for again for both sides to ride moving forward. and but yeah like he's I think for plus minus and not that that's the net rating um he was just behind uh yokic and Aaron Gordon from Denver last season in terms of on court impact and he just he's just one of those guys much like Rob Williams which is why I had the fascination uh who just makes everyone else better and doesn't need plays drawn up for him makes the right play plays multiple positions

and was an all defense guy last year so I don't know how you're one of the top 10 defenders in the league and you're not on a top 100 list. But again, I get the whole idea that if you're, if you're sitting there and you're going, Jason, Jalen, Chris Staps, Drew, it gets hard to maybe slot another Celtic on there. But yeah, I think, I don't know what his role will be, but I hope if one thing Joe learned last year was,

like, Derek White should have played a lot more than he did. It was the abundance of guards, and they leaned really hard on Malcolm last year. But Malcolm had defensive issues in the postseason, as good as he was. kind of carrying him in that six-man role, Derek was the better sort of glue to when they were out there with superstars. And so if you can tap back into that, I think he will be their sort of unsung guy, even though he's probably more sung than I'm giving him credit for.

I want to give you one more X factor before we move on. I want to get your take on him. Sam Houser. First two months of last season, Sam Houser was Lights Out. He looked like one of the best shooters in the NBA. We're talking about him being in the three-point contest. I'm making phone calls to Virginia to talk to Tony Bennett about Sam Hauser, where'd he come from, how'd all this happen? And then you look at the second half and he fell off a cliff. You know, fell out of the rotation, was unplayable in the playoffs. I don't think the self-expected that.

I thought they believed fully that Sam Hauser for an entire season and a postseason was going to be a playable player for them. What do you think the expectations are for Sam Hauser this season? You know, it's funny. You mentioned that because like game six of the Heat series was replaying one day on NBA TV and I looked up and I said, Hauser was in that game because I just don't remember him being a factor or somebody, but they did kind of try to throw him in there as a wild card as they were trying to scrap their way back in that series. But you're right. Like,

in a limited minutes in here, go out here with lineups that are probably Jason Tatum heavy and just spot up and take those shots and teams were happy to give him to him. He really thrived at the start of last season was another sort of plus minus darling and net rating guy. And so we'll see. can he tap back into that? I mean, at no point should he be out there without two other all-star level players. And whether, you know, even if that's like Chris Staps and Drew or whatever, however it shakes down,

he should get really good looks. Frustrating start for him to the preseason. I think he missed 13 of his first 15-3s. You could tell, like almost like Peyton last year. He was getting frustrated. Then last night the lid comes off a little bit and you can see why they just got to get him to a point where he's a little bit more consistent.

Shooters are going to go through slumps. but if you play with 20% more consistency, he'll have a rotation rule. And that's what it comes down to. Like when you look at the Celtics, you say they got their top six and then they need like three more guys to navigate the regular season.

And not all three of those guys are going to play in the playoffs, but some combination of Peyton and Hauser and then whatever big emerges should be enough to kind of get you through the year. And, you know, they've just got to figure out how to get all three of those guys

to play with consistency and just be great at their roles. I worry about him defensively. He just has a, big bullseye on his back when he comes into games. He held up well. Teams were definitely going at him, but like, look, I know.

I'm not saying he's like the fleet of foot. But when you're also, when you're out there with Drew Holiday and Jason and James, like, that should help mask some of the deficiencies that they want to target him. I think the points per play number last year was like comical. Like they just could not attack him in isolation. It spurts.

Like I will say in the playoffs, you can definitely find ways. And he goes, he's another guy that goes from a luxury last year with Brogdon there to be more of a necessity this year. I'll be just to see how he plays for this team this season. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year.

Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, CliverTaylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined.

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Last thing. Joe Missoula, uh, under fire for most of last season. And I thought completely unfairly. I mean, Joe Missoula is, well, I mean, I thought, look, given, if you take a step back and look at the totality of it. You've got a guy that comes in on effectively the eve of training camp to replace a coach that was widely respected in the locker room that leaves because of a scandal. You have a brain drain on your bench over the course of the year, whether it's Will Hardy to Damon Stademeyer to some others that left the organization. And you didn't replace any of those guys.

You didn't plus up the bench and the brain power on that bench. Last year he made a lot of mistakes. No question about it. The timeouts was very well chronicled over the course of the year. Some of the rotation decisions. He likes a lot of threes. That's for damn sure. I think they did all the right things this year,

not only bringing him back without question, but plusing up the bench with Charles Lee, who is arguably the best assistant coach in the NBA. Sam Kassel, who, as you know, is like the first, like ex-player with gravitas they've had since Walter McCarty. Like they haven't had that guy on the bench in a long time. And I think that's going to be valuable, you know, for this team. And Sam also is a candidate to be head coach down the line.

So they've got two guys that could be head coaches in the next couple of years. So I think they did all the right things. But now the pressure's on. Like this is a championship contender. Joe Missoula, as I've said here on NBC, he is the closest thing that Brad Stevens has to a protege. He's the guy that Brad plucked out of the G League. He's the guy that Brad made sure

Stan out he made Yodoka's bench. And he's the guy that Brad elevated when there were other more senior coaches ahead of him in line. All that being said, how much pressure is on Joe Missoula to deliver this year? What do you think he has to deliver?

Is it a championship or bust? Is it finals or bust? Understand injuries have to play a role and how the season plays out. But on paper, is it win the whole thing or Joe Missoula is in trouble? Yeah, you know, it's interesting. I think let's start with the near term, right?

Like one of the things I've kind of asked other people, I said, you know, what would it, what kind of rocky start with the Celtics have to get off to for them to even consider a change at that position? I don't think it's even likely, but, you know, if they're 500 at midseason, like who gets in trouble there? Is it the players? Is it the coach? Whatever. And just like you said, I want to give Joe every opportunity because last year was, no. not ideal. And chief among them is just not only does he get thrown into it on the eve of it, but he's with all of EMA's assistants who fair or not. Some are gone too. Some voluntarily gone.

And you can't help but some of those people wanted that job. And then here's Joe who gets to not, even though he was a behind the bench guy and all. I think it's just, it's an awkward situation to go into. I don't think Joe ever got fully comfortable. I think Joe, like every first year coach, there's a learning process and he didn't always handle certain situations. Well, he's certainly been, you know, open to admitting some of those things, the lack of rotation use and, you know, kind of fixating on the stars at some points, you know, the timeout usage, although he has kind of doubled down that he's like, I just need to better prepare my team for for those situations. So I'll be interested to see exactly what that balance is, one of the real.

game start. But yeah, he just, he feels a little bit more comfortable here in preseason. Definitely joking a lot more and being lighthearted. He's admitted that he wasn't ready for everyone to care about his opinion because he's never been in that spot before. But yeah, like, you know, you know how it is when you're a coach of a Boston team, especially the only Boston team that's like relevant right now. So he's got to figure out, you know, how to navigate that.

And, and, you know, like you said, they've got two top assistants. next to him, who a lot of teams would probably desire for jobs if vacancies came open. So it would be interesting to see how it all plays out. For me, it just comes down to can he put this team in the best position to succeed? It felt like at times last year they got away. In 22, I felt like they were fueled by their defensive changes at the end of that year. And last year was just the whole Missoula ball three point. And they didn't really have another option.

It's been nice to see Tatum in the post. It's been nice to see Porzingis go down there to start to preseason. and but will that hold up? And what happens when three point shots aren't falling? And how does Joe adjust? And how does he use the bench? And how does he pace everybody? So those are the questions.

I think he's, I don't think it's necessarily championship or bust. I think it a lot more will fall on the players than the coach. But certainly he has to press the right buttons or if nothing else in in the Boston media microscope. Like we're going to, we're going to invariably pin stuff on him and, and question some of his decisions.

Yeah. Most of last year, it just seemed like he was conducting some of these press conferences, like with his fists clenched on the table, like, you know, just very tense, very pensive, just not comfortable in those situations,

which I can't blame him. Like, first time in that role, half the question he's getting early on about email you doka and, you know, what happened there. Look, some of the pressers I've watched and the quotes I've read, it's not exactly like it's Joe's not at the improv,

but he's a much more relaxed guy. Actually, he's coming, like, he's had, like, little one-liners, busting people about a little, way more than last year. Way more than last year. Yeah. I do think, Chris, like, Brad Stevens, he's leaned into Joe Ball with some of these off-season moves. Like, getting Porzengis is leaning into offense over defense.

I know people want to believe Porzingis can be this rim protector. Okay, I'll believe that when I see it over a full season. Better than you think. as you said, it's a lot more drop coverage. Yeah, is he going to defend? I think people are going to put him in a lot of pick and rule situations, then we'll see what he can do.

But Porzingis is there more for offense and defense. Robert Williams was defense more than offense. Porzingis is there because he's a floor spacer. He does a lot of things offensive. He can play through him in the low post. They've leaned into Joe Ball. So he's getting more of his types of guys, which should work out for him in his favor.

I think as long as he, and maybe you can tell me this better than, as I haven't been around the team as much yet. But, you know, as long as he trusts Charles Lee, as long as he trusts Sam Cassell, as long as he doesn't look at them as being kind of guys waiting for him to screw up, you know, waiting for him to make a mistake so they can take over. And I'm not saying they are.

I don't believe for a second there. Both those guys are good basketball coaches and I think they're there for the right reasons. But as long as as Joe believes that and leans into that and looks for help from guys that have been around the block looks, to Sam Cassell for some player-centric type of things. Looks to Charles Lee who has championship experience on that Milwaukee staff. As long as he does those things, I think he's going to grow as a coach. I really believe, and I tweeted this, I think by midseason, we're talking about Joe Missoula.

And I don't know if he's going to win coach of the year because it's hard to win coach of the year when you're of a loaded roster. It usually goes to like the Mark Dagnolts of the world who have the 10 seed that goes to five seed or whatever it may be. But I think we're talking about Joe Missoula as a asset to this. team and not the liability some people thought he was a year ago. I think he's going to grow organically. I think he's going to grow with the guys in his bench.

I think he's going to grow just having another year, you know, where he's not entering a job that's surrounded in controversy and he's not kind of standing up there taking shrapnel after every tough defeat. It's still going to be tough for him after in tough stretches. But I do think he's going to have, I think he, by all-star break, the conversation about Joe Missoula is going to be how he is a positive for this team and not a negative. And that's, that would be an upgrade, I think, from what some people thought last year. I just think you have to be more comfortable. I think he, you know, he was pretty organically

himself last year, but I just think the situation just made things, like little things more difficult than they probably needed to be. And I think he's just better equipped for it. Like you said, he'll have a whole offseason here to put in like the what, what he believes in. And, you know, the guys trust him. Like Tatum really believes in him. Tatum is all on board. Like that having buy-in from your best player is huge. and so if that trickles down and I do think, you know, it was phrased at least that

this decision to bring in Sam Cassell and Charles Lee was Joe's decision. I'm sure he was as aware of it as anybody that they needed to strengthen that staff and get guys that he could lean on and you don't go get them if you're not going to use their their expertise. And so I'm, you know,

I kind of from afar just watching after practices, watch Sam Cassell go up to him and have chats about like, okay, what should I do here with Jason and like what do you want us working on? And I think there's an open dialogue there. And both those guys are good enough assistance. And they know their their times coming at the as head coaches. And if the Celtics are successful, everyone's going to benefit from that. So I think they're all in. It's great that you have Charles Lee when you add a true holiday to the roster. It's great when you have Paul Pierce wanting to like work out with Jason Tatum because Sam Cassell connected them in the off season. And so I think, yeah, I think they're just better set up for success. uh this season and i think joe will uh will have every chance to sort of spread his wings a little bit more in much the same way that we keep saying like jason and jalen without marcus there and his voice you know like okay well joe this is this is what you got you got everything you want it now and you get and you've got whatever this make it your mark on it and uh it won't be on the fly and everything so

yeah i'm eager put it my my my long-winded way of saying i'm eager to see how he how he spreads his wings here and and if he just you know looks a little bit more comfortable in all regards this season. I like how they've turned the team into kind of a high school football program, like welcoming back all the old players, then have them in the gym, whether it's Paul Pierce, Satch Sanders, whoever you want to, you know, bring in. You can walk right in there now. Apparently, apparently it's it's open doors for anybody that used to wear.

Former and pre. I like everything. Like you can just like stomp right in. Paul Pierce was like working out on machines. And the 2008 team took over and just had a three point contest in the middle of a freaking that. Yeah. Yeah.

Sam Casell, Eddie House, uh, doing TV work down. So it's going to be interesting this year, that's for sure. All right, read Chris Forsberg stuff on NBCSportsBoston.com. Watch him on NBC SportsBoston all season long for his Celtic stuff. Chris, good to catch up with you, man. I appreciate you joining me here on the show. Thank you, Manx. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite.

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