The Herd with Colin Cowherd - 3 Points with Chris Mannix - Jason Timpf joins the show

Episode Date: October 21, 2023

Chris is joined by The Volume's "Hoops Tonight" host, Jason Timpf as the guys dive into the James Harden situation in Philly, which LA team will win the "Battle for LA" and who might be the biggest surprise team this season. #Volume #HerdSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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expire 168 hours after issuance. See sportsbook.draftkings.com slash football terms for eligibility and deposit restrictions, terms, and responsible gaming resources. This is three points with Chris Mannix, where we tackle the three biggest topics in the NBA this week. Subscribe to the volume feed on AMP. Subscribe to my feed on AMP as well. Speaking of other volume sports podcast, my guest this week is Jason Tim, the host

of Hoops Tonight on the Volume Sports Network. I'd listen to Jason, I think virtually every day, if not every day, almost every day, during the NBA season, breaking down the action from that night, taking on all the biggest topics and the NBA that day. So, Jason, good to have you here on this show. And I think it's a prerequisite to start every NBA-centric show with James Harden. Because I've been watching a lot of NBA-centric TV, whether on NBA TV or ESPN, listening to a lot of NBA podcasts.

And it feels like every one of them over the last week has begun or made the focal point James Hardin. And what is going to happen to James Hardin in Philadelphia, which is fair game because this is a continually evolving story. The latest involving James Hardin is that Hardin has no-showed the Sixers practice over the last couple of of days. We're recording this on Thursday. He was not at practice over the last couple of days. And his status for Friday's game, his status for the regular season remains completely unknown. Most people listening will know this, but just for context, James Hardin has one year left on his contract in Philadelphia. He has asked for a trade in large part because he doesn't like Darry anymore. And he wants to trade specifically to the LA Clippers. Right now, the Sixers have shown a

willingness to trade James Harden, but they're going to do it on their own terms. They're either going to get back a player of near or comparable value, or they're going to get back draft assets or young players that they can then flip for a player of equal or comparable value. So, Jason, that is the backdrop of all this. So where we stand right now, just days before the start of the NBA season. What is the best play right now? What is the smart move for the Philadelphia 76ers as it pertains to James Harden? Yeah, I don't understand the situation for really any of the parties involved.

Like from James's perspective, it's a much better basketball fit in Philly. They desperately need someone that can be that pick and roll playmaker for them, especially setting up and bead with those ISOs right around the foul line and just kind of getting him into his spots in general. He also kind of had some impact as a spot-up player last year during the postseason. I mean, obviously his on-ball stuff has tanked. I think he shot something crazy, like 35% at the rim last year and certainly did some damage to his value. But from a basketball perspective, I don't really see the fit with the Clippers. And I just did my season preview for the Clippers.

And then just I just did a breakdown of their kind of dress rehearsal the other night. And they look pretty good with Terrence Mann and with Russell Westbrook with Kauai and Paul George. And I don't really understand what they're looking at. there as a need, especially when you already have Russell Westbrook there, who at this point, like, especially with the limitations that James showed last year in the postseason is not that much of a downgrade and is arguably better with what he brings athletically. I would say Russ was a better playoff player last year in his very small burst than James Hardin was. And then from the Philly perspective, if you really look at it, I don't see any universe where James is going to bring

back a star player. So if he's going to be a malcontent, if he clearly does, he clearly does, doesn't have any intention to participate with the team at this point, at what point are you better off targeting a role player-centric return and then lean more into Tyrese Maxie and Joel Embed at for on-ball creation? Again, all three parties I don't really understand. I'm not as well connected as you, Chris, but from what I understand, James Hardin doesn't really have an agent from the standpoint of like a guy who's really well-versed in the way these things work.

I don't understand why you would skip Media Day, but then show up a couple days late and then suddenly not show again. If I had the guess, it has to do with, I'm assuming, trying to make sure he gets paid because I think they're calling it like a personal issue. But it's not a agent, at least not in the traditional sense of the word, one of the power agents that are out there that usually represent a player

of his caliber. And I think that's been a variable in all this. I mean, this has been bungled really since the very beginning. Like going over to China, which is a hot spot for Darry because of what he said about Hong Kong years ago. And making his declaration that he doesn't want to be a 76er there, I didn't feel like that was some kind of masterstroke. And then his variety of different holdouts,

you know, missing the first two days of the Sixers preseason, which included Media Day, really only accomplished forcing your teammate to comment on you. It didn't really, I mean, Darrell had to comment on it as well, but in getting the weeds on this all day long. He does radio interviews about this stuff. Like, he just doesn't care. You know, having your teammates do it, I thought was a bad move. Then he shows up to camp and, you know, for like a week and looks like he's going to be part of the team,

working with the coaching staff, talking about playing on Friday night. And as of Thursday afternoon, he's effectively AWOL from this team. So I think this has been bungled from the very beginning. I do think, though, the Sixers are doing the right thing by holding their ground because they don't know what other options could be out there for them in the coming months. If the Damian-Lillard situation taught us anything, it's that the first offer is not going to be the best offer. You go back to July when the Blazers had all that pressure on them. It was the off-season, but still the pressure was kind of white-hot in that moment. Dame wanted to trade. He made it clear he wanted to go to Miami.

Everyone said the Blazers had to do right by Damien Little. They didn't. They waited. And then they got a better deal. If you're Philadelphia, you're looking at what happened in Damian Little and saying, all right, right now for James Hart. But that may not be the case by, say, Thanksgiving. What if the Miami Heat get off to an awful start, you know, in the season, which is not, you know, outside of the realm of possibility. That's not a very good team in totality down there in Miami. What if they turn around and say, all right, we got to do something?

Here's Kyle Lowry and two first round picks. Or here's Tyler Hero who's not happy here and one first round pick. What if they're able to do that? I think the possibility of that being out there is enough for Philadelphia to deal with the uncomfortableness of this hardened situation for at least a few more weeks. Granted, there is a risk. I mean, God knows what Joelle Embed is thinking. That's probably the biggest part of all this. like Joelle and Bede is probably sitting back there going,

do I really want to be part of this circus? Do I really want to be a 76 or long term? That is a big risk. But so isn't doing a mediocre deal for James Hardin that only gets them one probably bad first round pick and some combination of Marcus Morris and Robert Covington and draft filler. Do you think there's value to that to holding on to James Harden

until you see what else is out? out there. Yeah, well, it's one of those things where specifically for Daryl Morey, he's won this battle before. I remember all of the narratives surrounding Ben Simmons in that training camp. Was that, was that two years ago now? I think it was two years ago. It feels like it's either six months or six years. I don't know. Time is a flat circle. Exactly. But like I remember a lot of us being like, what is he holding out for? Like, what are you going to get for Ben Simmons? And then everything just kind of materialized with the James Hardin situation. Then it kind of felt like he'd hit a home run of all things considered in that circumstance.

And so I understand why he would feel as though this could break a certain type of way for him. I also agree with you as it pertains to the Clippers package, definitely not being the right direction for them to go, especially when you look at Tobias Harris and P.J. Tucker and now with Kelly Uprey in the picture, they don't really need a bunch of other lesser forwards to come off the bench. What they need is they need point of attack defense. They need guys that can guard the other team's best guard, especially in an Eastern

conference where you're going to need a body that you can put on a drew. Holiday or on a Derek White or on a on a Damien Lillard. I would be looking for an upgrade in the back court if that was the case. I love the Miami Heat as an option. And the way you put it from the standpoint of it requiring a tough start, I think that's like an absolute necessity for that deal to even materialize just from the standpoint of the horrible personality fit between him and everything about the Miami Heat organization. But I actually kind of love the basketball ball fit. One, Spolster has a history of converting, you know, limited defensive players into guys that can fulfill a role within his defensive scheme. We saw him do a decent job with Kevin

Love. I've seen him do it with their guards and wings. So like from that standpoint, I like the way that he could probably get the most out of James Hardin at this point. And in that specific system, they wouldn't need him to do very much in terms of high level shot creation. It's more just eating regular season innings. And here's the thing. We could talk just hard on all day long and what his playoff shortcomings are. I actually think he's still one of the top 20s in Pondi. Just he lives of just the 82.

He's still one of those guys. And there's a lot of value there, especially for a team like Miami. But I agree with you that patience is the right strategy. I just think Daryl might have to consider targeting a role player-centric package. I'm not sure that a star is going to come available that he could target with kind of pick. Because like if you're Chicago, do you want the Hardin for Zach Levine? Of course not. Like, what does that do for you? You know what I mean? So like, I don't know that there's If you're Philadelphia, I don't think you want Zach Levine either. I mean, Zach Levine's knee still

terrifies me, you know, long term with that contract. I don't know if I want. Yeah, feel the same way for Philadelphia. Exactly. So like I, I'm withholding out as the right strategy. You can't just panic and make the bad trade. I wouldn't, if I was Daryl, I wouldn't give a damn about sending him to the clippers or whatever his preferable choices. Like, you send him where you get the best package, right? But I just wish, I wish everybody, I wish the cooler heads would prevail because I do actually believe James is the right place for James right now is Philly, in my opinion, genuinely.

I feel like it was a good fit. I, like, I think there are some, you know what's funny? I really do think that the James hardened fiasco in the playoffs last year outside of those two games, because obviously he had the two great games against Boston, but he was atrocious the rest of the time. I think that everybody got off the scent of how bad Embed was in that playoff run. Oh, yeah. And really that was what held them back, was that he was looking at Al Horford in fourth quarters on face-ups, and he was scared. Like, that's what really went wrong in the playoff run last year. And so I wish cooler heads would prevail, but it feels like that's a loss.

It's not like they're going to fire Del Moore, Daryl Moore. It's not like James Hardin's going to come back, you know, have a come to Jesus moment. So I don't really know what's going to happen. Yeah, you're right about the taking off the scent of Joel and B. Juelan B, what was at game six, didn't touch the ball for the final six minutes of the fourth quarter. Some of that's on you, man. Some of that's on you. You've got to go demand the ball, get the ball, and go make plays against a 37-year-old Al Horford. Like, you've got to do it.

As far as the Clippers go, see, I take a different approach. I do think the Clippers should aggressively go after James Harden, in part because, yeah, they look great right now. I saw them play against Denver on Tuesday, I went to the game. And, you know, Kauai, Paul George, these guys are defending. They're playing their butts off. They've got a good mix of talent around them. Zubach is a good rebounder, a lot of good role players on that team. I can't get past this idea that Terrence Mann is holding up this deal.

Like, I just can't get past it. Terrence Mann is a nice player, but he's four years in. He's average double digits once. He's a pretty good three-point shooter. He shot like 38, 39 percent from 20. three this past season. He's a decent rebounder for his position. He's young. He's active.

I get all that. But if Terrence Mann is what's holding up this deal, if you could just plug Terrence Mann in and give up a first round pick and a pick swap, which is what was reported by the athletic this week. If that's the case, I just do it if you're the Clippers. I know James Hardin is not the perfect fit. The guy that Clippers really wanted was Drew Holiday.

Like in the Clippers front office in their coaching room, like they were envisioning Drew Holiday, Paul George, and Kauai Lollett. Leonard just throttling the perimeter of guys defensively, just being great on that side of the floor. But if you just have to give up Terrence Mann, is there a possibility we're overrating Terrence Mann in this particular situation? Because as nice as he is as a player, he's not a great player. And I don't know if he's ever going to get there. So I 100% agree with you from the standpoint of Terrence Man being a tiny bit overrated in this discussion from the standpoint of

like I think Bruce Brown like single-handedly doubled Terrence Mann's trade value because of that like kind of undersized wing who's super strong and athletic who can be a force on the perimeter on both ends, like not just at the point of attack, but also like semi-transition pushes and slashing and stuff like that. Like I think people envision Terrence Mann as like the next version of that Bruce Brown playoff performer. But at the end of the day, like I think it has less to do with whether or not that's fair for the deal because I agree with you. Like if, if I, if my team needs James Harden and all I have to do is give up Terrence, man, I'm with you.

But I just don't necessarily understand the James Hardin fit with the Clippers. I think there's a little bit of diminishing returns there. Like what they needed was rim pressure and playmaking, but Russ kind of brings that. Now, there's the question of whether or not Russ can be on the floor all the time. And that's a completely fair. There's a big question. That's a big question in the postseason, especially when teams start to create kind of a shell in the paint and start to back off him.

He's going to have to prove he can make shots. At the very least James Hardin can make shots. At least, you know, he's shown he can't. Yeah, and one of his biggest moments in last year's playoff run was a double team of of Joel and beat in a corner three that won a game. You know, so like I totally am with you there. I guess I see the upside. I do.

But like, I can see why the clippers are like, hmm, would I rather have my group with Terrence Mann and just be this fierce defensive team and I've got enough shot creation or do I want to bring in this kind of vagabond-esque weirdo into my franchise that could cause all these problems. And you would know better than me from the standpoint of connections around the league. Do they do the Clippers really want James? Or are they kind of like, we'd have him if it was cheap? No, I think they want him. I think they want him. And, you know, whether it's James Harden and Malcolm Brogden, I think they get somebody. You know, Brogden, they might wait on to see if he's fully healthy to see, you know, what he looks like in the

first few weeks of the season. But I think one way or the other, they're going to go get somebody to be a point guard. like, you know, Westbrook, Terrence, man, Bones Highland, good players, but all the guys I named, I think they believe are just better fits with that team. And you need, look, and again, I go back to Hardin, Hardin, you know, for all the criticism but his game, he did evolve while he was in Philadelphia. What's much more unselfish in Philadelphia? I mean, lead the NBA assists is not nothing. I think having him as a playmaker around Kawhi Leonard and Paul George is something the Clippers would value. Again, they wanted Drew Holiday. I think that was the guy that they were really fixated on. And they were really disappointed to not be able to

get him. But the next guy on their list, I think is James Harden. I think they're going to do whatever they can to try to get him. Let's keep it on the Clippers for a moment. Keep it on Los Angeles for a moment. The battle for L.A. is a lot more interesting at the moment because I think both the Clippers and the Lakers can go into this season believing that they can win a championship. The Lakers brought the band back, made a few minor tweaks around the fringes with some of the role players. The Clippers, they're healthy for now, which is always the key. And if they can stay healthy, their numbers over the last four years with Kauai Letterd and Paul George in the lineup are really impressive, regular season and postseason. So if you had to bet on one of these two LA

teams being at least the team that come out of the West, which one would you take? Eileen Lakers, it's close, though. I mean, here's the thing with the Clippers. We were on three consecutive seasons where they can't get their stars through a playoff run. Now, the obvious counterpoint there is like, well, what happened in two of those three? The same thing happened to LeBron and AD. So, like, obviously there's injury risk on both ends. I do think the Lakers have a little bit more ability to weather losses, of loss of games from their stars.

You know, I think the Laker offseason was a little overrated as it pertains to their ceiling. Like, they didn't fix any of the specific issues that got them beat against Denver. But I think it's underrated within the context of the regular season. They brought in athleticism. They brought in youth. They brought in guys that can eat innings. in the regular season. I thought a great example of that was when DeAngel, without Austin, without LeBron or AD, they kind of played really well against the Kings a few games ago.

And like, you can see now that they've got functional lineup groupings at every position, which is something they didn't have in the past when Russ was there. And so I think they're just going to be able to take a nice, easy approach to the regular season. And if LeBron and AD both play 55, 60 games, I still think they're going to be a top six seed. I don't think they're going to be in the play in this year. And then from there, this is a. team that's got a little bit more continuity, a little bit more of an identity on the defensive end of the floor. I think they're a little bit better. That said, like, if I was ranking players in a vacuum guaranteeing health, I think Kauai would be probably fifth for me. I think I'd have it,

I think I'd have Yokic. I think I'd have either Yonis or Steph at two, three. I think I'd have Luke at four, and then I'd have Kauai right there. So, like, it's one of those things where like, the clippers have become the butt of the joke. But if things break right, and they're in the conference finals and they're playing against your favorite team, like they got just as good a chance to win as any other of these top tier contenders. So I take them dead serious. It's just, I just feel like the Lakers have more pathways to victory in this case. Yeah, I think that's well put, and that's kind of the direction I'm leaning as well. If you could guarantee me that the Clippers and their stars specifically with Kauai and Paul George would play 60 to 70 games during the

regular season and be full strength during the playoffs, I'd pick the Clippers. I like their mix enough and I like those two guys especially. But who's guaranteeing that? I mean, the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, expecting a different result. This is four years running with Kauai and Paul George, where, you know, they've played like, I wrote the number of this past week. I'm a blank on top of my hand, but it's something like 30, 40 percent of the regular

season games and 65 percent of the playoff games. When the season ended this past year, after they played 38 games together in the regular season, neither Paul George. or Kauai Lender was on the floor when they lost the sons in the first round. We're expecting that to change as these two guys hit their mid-30s. I don't know how you can just kind of blindly believe that. So because I'm anticipating something going drastically wrong in Los Angeles, I'm going to lean towards the Lakers.

And it's a lot of what you said there, the pathways to victory. I loved Rob Palenka's decision to kind of emphasize continuity, emphasize bringing back the guys that he had. You look at Austin Reeves numbers after Russell Westbrook left that team. He's averaged like 18 points per game after that. He took off. There's no reason to believe that Austin Reeves can't be that guy for a full season. He's just only going to get better as a player.

I love Rui Hashemora spending all offseason attaching himself to LeBron James. I love that. Like if you're a if you're like a six eightish muscular small forward, is there anybody else you'd want to attach yourself to more than the greatest six eight muscular small forward of all time. I love that decision. I think he's going to get better during the season. The Angela Russell kind of is what he is, right?

Like he's talking defense, but he's talking like he wants to be Derek White. I don't, I'm not banking on him turning into a Derek White like defender. But look, he's fine. I think he's a top half of the NBA point guard, top 20 at worst. I think he's okay in that spot. And the big reason is I think Anthony Davis is going to have a big year. I mean, this was one of the first years in a long time that Anthony Davis could go into an off-season not dealing with, you know, a nagging injury or not needing to have surgery.

He only had to work on his body and his game. What I've seen from him during this preseason is a guy that, you know, looks like he spent the off-season working on his game, looks like he spent the off-season working on his body. You talk to scouts and you didn't even have to talk to scouts. He just kind of look at it. He was heavy last year. He was not the guy that we saw during his prime years in New Orleans. He looks a lot better in training camp this year. year. And I think that's going to lead to Anthony Davis having a monster year, which is only going to take even more pressure off of LeBron James. It's not going to make him need to be a 28, 29 point per game score. It's not going to make him need to be the triple double guy who does it on both ends. I think this is the year, Anthony Davis kind of slides over and takes that number one player mantle away from LeBron and allows LeBron to do other things. So I guess the question would be, what was the biggest concern for you? you about the Lakers. We're both picking the Lakers to be the better of these two teams. What's the biggest concern for you about the Lakers?

The biggest concern I have with this team is perimeter defense. Jamal Murray absolutely killed them. Now, Dennis Schroeder was a good perimeter defender, but Dennis Schroeder has a little bit of a limitation when it comes to bigger guards that can kind of body him and get to spots where they can shoot over the top. Now, like again, like DeAngelo Russell legitimately looks better in preseason. Clearly he got embarrassed by Bruce Brown and took it personally. But Derek White is shooting for the moon, man.

And that is, that is a, that is a, a pointless guy. Yeah, like, I was, I, I saw everybody complaining on NBA rank. I, uh, I randomly after the Drew Holiday trade just on the spot was like, where would I rank Derek White in the league? And I think he's like a top 50 player. Like, I think Derek White's awesome. You know what I mean?

So like, I don't really see that as a viable, uh, comparison. But like, the, the problem is, is their best perimeter defenders are not starter caliber players. So like, you've got Jared Vanderbilt. And I really like the Torian Prince acquisition because he actually slots better with the starters than both Jared or Rui does. But like Rui, they want to play him alongside LeBron and AD. But the problem is is Rui is a four on both ends of the floor. Right. Like he can't navigate screens.

He can't chase guys around on the perimeter. Jared Vanderbilt can defend like a three, but he offensively is like a four and maybe even like a five. You know, so like he can't really do much with the starters offensively. But so like your best perimeter defender, Jared Vanderbilt, has to come off the bench. you know, Gabe Vincent, good perimeter defender, but not a great one. It has that same size issue that you see with Dennis Schroeder. So like there's been a lot of talk about like Kyrie and other big names that the Lakers could target. But like honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if at some point during the season they took, you know, like Ruy's contract and, and Delos and tried to target just an outstanding like three and the perimeter defender guy.

Because like the shot creation piece with Austin and LeBron, especially if LeBron and AD both make improvements as jump shooters. I'm just not sure that they necessarily need as much of that as they do a, like who's Alex Crusoe for this team the way that he was in 2020? The guy that just in a partnership in pick and roll with Anthony Davis made them devastating. They just don't have that right now. And so that's the biggest weakness, but the only other one I'd point to is the jump shooting. AD is shot the lights out in preseason, but it's preseason. LeBron is, it looks more or less like the jump shooter he was last year. So we'll see. But if those two make, you know, strides his jump shooters back to where they were in 2020. That's another big ceiling

razor for them. Yeah, perimeter defense is a good point. That's going to be a problem because of the guys they're going to have to go through come playoff time. The guys in Golden State, the guys in Sacramento, the guys in Denver, Phoenix, their stars are a little bit bigger, but they've got Booker and Bradley Beal as well. It's going to be a handful. They're going to have to get creative defensively. And Anthony Davis got this kind of brings it back to Dave. He's got to do a lot of work defensively to clean up some of those mistakes. And if he's up for the challenge. I think it's going to be really good year for the Lakers. Last thing I want to talk about, the team that could upset the apple cart, the team out there that will surprise you

by January 1st or even by the All-Star break. I'm going to go first on this one. I'm going to bring up the Pelicans here because we all know how good the Pelicans were at the start of last season, 22 and 13 before Zion Williamson goes down with a season ending injury. They just cratered after that. The numbers were terrible. They just couldn't figure out. out how to make it work with Zion on the lineup. Zion is back. Looks healthy for now. They're experimenting with him a little more at center, which I think is a good idea by

Willie Green and that coaching staff. You've got Brandon Ingram. I think he's going to take another step forward this year. You've got C.J. McCollum, who's not the picture perfect fit, I think, along those two guys, but he's an experienced guy who can make shots. And that's what you want. When they're healthy, you know, they've got some guys that can defend. I think Herb Jones is, you know, one of the better wing defenders in the league.

if he can continue to improve his shot, he's going to be valuable for that team. And look, when I talk to coaches, Jason, like, when they talk about the most difficult guys to guard in the NBA, Zion is either first, second, or third on that list every single time, you know, because you don't know who to put on him. He's so strong. He's so athletic and he has so many different moves when he gets the ball in isolation. He's one of the best isolation players in the NBA, number one or number two last year at isolation points per game.

number one or number two in isolation field goal percentage. Average is like 19 points in the paint last year. A lot of those shots came off dribble drives and off possession that started outside the paint. I think that this Pelicans team, if they can just keep their guys on the floor, I think they're in for a big year. I think Zion is just coming back is going to give them a big boost. I think he and Engram are as good a kind of one-two punch offensively when it comes

to isolation touches that you're going to see in today's NBA. So I think the Pelicans, when we get to like mid-January, you're going to see them sitting like second or third in the Western Conference. You're going to be looking around, wait, the Pelicans are ahead of the Lakers. The Pelicans are ahead of the Clippers. I think the Pelicans are poised for big things. Yeah, the Zion thing is funny because if you go back through NBA history and recent NBA history, it's always like Janus and LeBron at the top of the League of Restricted area makes.

It's Janus LeBron, LeBron, Yonis, whatever it is. The healthy Zion years, he's always like even above those guys. Like it's crazy. There's, there's, we really haven't seen a player in this era that can get to the basket the way that he does. And it's really kind of brute force. Like they'll just go five out or four out one in and clear the side.

And it's like he just is ripping through to his left or doing a hard jab step and go into the right. And he's actually an amazing passer to. So he can like make the kickout passes and dump off passes out of those, uh, possessions. And having him back is just going to bring that offensive firepower that they don't have because C.

C. McCollum and Brandon Ingram just don't really pressure the rim all that much. Also, uh, C. McCollum was dealing with like a shoulder thing and a wrist thing last year that was affecting his shooting down the stretch of the season. He's apparently healthy and ready to go. Trey Murphy, obviously, you didn't mention him, but like he's going to miss the beginning of the season because it's a big guy that has the potential to be like a real scoring threat for them as well. The one thing

that freaks me out with the Pelicans is just the center position. And I like Jonas Fallon Chus. I genuinely do. But like he's such a weird change of pace from everything else that they do. And, But he's such a dominant regular season player as an offensive rebounder and as a post-up guy that it's hard to just be like, you know, let's move on from this or let's go in some other direction. But I always just see when I think about like the big picture version of this team, I see, you know, CJ with like, Trey and Herb with B.I. and Zion. And like you've got to take one of those guys out and you've got to get some sort of real legitimate rim protecting center in there to really reach their ceiling. But I do believe that they have a lot of regular season potential. and I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if they went up a level. The team that I look at is Minnesota. Wow. Okay. You're buying in to the Timberwolves. Okay.

I have, they have a specific, it really comes down to two things for me. One, they have like a very unique combination of elite perimeter defense and elite rim protection, which I think you really saw come to the surface towards the tail end of last season, especially when Kat was out of the lineup and they were playing a lot of Kyle Anderson at the but Kyle Anderson is like one of the better, bigger forward defenders in the league. Jada McDaniels is a bona fide top tier perimeter defender. Like he's what, like if you're listing the top five perimeter defenders in the league, he's on there somewhere and he's probably pretty close to number one, right?

Like, Nikiel Alexander Walker is one of the better perimeter defender guards in the league. Anthony Edwards has his issues off the ball and obviously he can wax and Wayne in terms of his effort. But when he turns it on, he like straight up puts dudes in jail. And then you're putting all those guys next to Rudy Gaubert. potentially the best, you know, depending on who you ask, but I don't think he's the best, but he's in that top five, you know, drop coverage bigs that we have in the league. And so, like, from that standpoint, I love the defensive potential that they have. Obviously, there's the, the Carl Towns fit and how that all plays out over the course of the season. But the

second big piece is Anthony Edwards. I had him at 15 in my player rankings before Team USA. And I got a lot of crap for it because people thought I was jumping the gun. And I don't think he's going to go win a title this year or anything. But I really do believe that he's in a position this year to have like a top seven MVP finish, maybe even top five. I think he's got that type of potential. And so if you put yourself, if you get a top 10 player and you get a bona fide MVP candidate, you're going to win a lot of top 10 defense. And a bona fide MVP candidate, you're going to win a lot of regular season game. So I have a feeling that you think they're a top 10 defense. If they could be a top 10 defense, Jason, I'm with you. But I mean, that's asking a lot for and that's asking

Gobert to be the Rudy Gobert to be the Rudy we saw during his prime years in Utah. I think he's going to have to do a lot of work when Edwards, as you point out, is not always checked in. And Mike Conley is not going to become a better defender as he gets a little bit older. That's the part that worries me a little bit. Yeah, and that's totally fair. And like, there definitely are questions. The Conley thing is, the conno thing, he really helps on offense because he's kind of the grown up in the room when Ant is a little, when Ants starts to lose control a little bit. Yeah.

And then, and then Carl Towns, it's just a weird fit because. like you'd see him in preseason or obviously when he's playing in Feebo. When he's got the keys to the offense, he can be pretty good, but he can really drift in and out of games when Ant is involved. And so there's definitely some stuff that they're going to have to work out. I just genuinely believe in the Aunt Jaden Rudy trio. And then with Kyle, when you're rotating in to Keel Alexander Walker and Kyle Anderson, just your best scoring wing is always facing an outstanding big wing defender. And your best guard is always facing an outstanding guard perimeter defender.

And, you know, and then you add Rudy into the mix. So like, I just, I do believe they're going to be a top 10 defenses here. We'll see. Again, like these are, it is a hot take, I suppose, but I, that they're just a team that, they're a team that I'll just, I'll just say this. When I was watching the end of the season last year, the last third of the season, they were the most impressive defense to me that I saw. I, I couldn't believe how often I'd be watching a random game on a Tuesday night and just

watch Jaden and aunt just put the opponent in, jail in the fourth quarter of a close game. Like, it's crazy what those two can do on the perimeter. Yeah, they were top 10. They were top 10 last year in defensive rating right there at 10th. They were top 15, I think, the year before. And that was when Chris Finch was basically using smoke and mirrors to get things done defensively.

That was a weird defense with D. Loe out there. Yeah, they were trying a whole bunch of different gimmicky stuff the year before. You could be right about Minnesota. I'll put it this way. I think Minnesota, I think you're either dead right on Minnesota or you're dead wrong. I don't think there's anything in between. I think you're either going to be dead right on them or like Carl Towns is going to be a member of the Miami Heat or the New York Knicks or somebody else by midseason. I think that's kind of the only way.

Are those the two teams you see? What have you been hearing about Kat? I think there's a lot of teams out there. They're planning on keeping them, but they're also planning on being good. So like if they're not good and there's a better deal out there for them, I think they'll do it. Look, there are teams, as we well know, keeping their powder dry for these big stars. The Knicks have not traded assets or draft picks in a while. The Nets are out there with assets and draft picks.

The Miami Heat still have some assets and draft picks and some young players that they could deal as well. And Towns is one of the reasons why. I mean, Joel Embed is probably the biggest reason why teams are watching that situation unfold as close as they can. But Towns is also the guy with multiple years left in his contract, a tremendous offensive player. I'm interested to see it, man. Like, you know, Rudy and Towns, like, a Rudy and a Bear and Carl Towns like. two seven footers basically out there on the floor. I think you can only go two ways.

All the lineup data was bad. All the lineup data when the two were out there was bad. But like when one of them was out there without the other, they actually were pretty good. And that's the predicament they have to figure out. But this is like, you know, I remember going back to last season before the season.

And when I was talking to scouts for, for SI, like one thing they kept saying was like, is Chris Finch going to have the Coyones to keep a, how much is Rudy making per year? Like $30 million per year player on the bench in the final six minutes of the fourth quarter. Like, is he going to be willing to do that?

Because that's the only way they can be successful. I don't think they can win with Towns and Rudy out there together in crunch time. I don't know. You probably know those numbers a lot better than I do, but I would imagine they're either not good or they're not going to be good during the season because that's too easy to take advantage of defensively. I think you can lean in one direction or the other. That's the other direction you could go is you could flip go bear.

Because like one of the best ways to check the rim. Good luck with that. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. But one of the best ways to protect the rim is to guard the perimeter. It's quickly, because of the spamming of pick and roll and driving kick basketball, as teams have gone more towards four perimeter players in a big, perimeter defense has become one of the most important elements of defense these days.

And you could get away with that with Carl. But like we talked about Carl's trade value, I can't even imagine what Rudy Gober's trade value would be. Although he's a guy that I'd love to see in New Orleans. I'll tell you that. Yeah, maybe. but I look, put it this way. But the Timberwolves couldn't get Walker Kessler back straight out from Utah,

for Ritigabair. Like that's much less the five first rounders they attached to Walker Kessler in that deal, which has the potential to go down as one of the worst trades in NBA history. Catch Jason Tim every night during the NBA season. Hoops tonight right here on the volume. Jason, good to catch up, man. Always appreciate your time. This was fun.

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