The Herd with Colin Cowherd - 3 Points with Chris Mannix - Trouble in La La Land

Episode Date: November 18, 2023

Chris is joined by longtime NBA writer Mark Medina to breakdown the three biggest stories in the NBA.  Draymond Green gets suspended - 3:45 Houston Rockets Rebuild - 11:00 LA Clippers, Harden, and Westbrook - 18:37 #Volume #HerdSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter.

Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year.

Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, this is Robert from the Stuff to Blow Your Mind podcast. Joe and I are both lifelong Star Wars fan, so we're celebrating May the 4th with a brand new week of fun, thought-provoking Star Wars-related episodes.

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This is three points with Chris Mannix, part of the Volume Sports Podcast Network, the show where we talk about the three biggest topics in the NBA. Joining me this week, longtime NBA writer Mark Medina, now working for Sports Kita, the messenger. Sporting Tribune, doing some TV for Spectrum Sports, radio for Fox Sports Radio. He is all over the place on the NBA beat. And Mark, let's start with Draymond Green,

who is once again in hot water with the NBA. On Tuesday, Draymond was ejected two minutes into the Warriors game against Minnesota for putting Rudy Gobert in a chokehole. This happened during an altercation between Jade McDaniels, and Clay Thompson. Green was ejected. Within 24 hours, the NBA suspended Dremont for five games. So let's start there. Did the NBA get it right with the suspension? Chris, I think it was appropriate. You know, the NBA admitted in their own statement that the length of it was based in part on, you know, Dremont's history with what they called unsportsman-like acts. And there's been a lot.

He's got ejected for the second time in three games. He's at 18 since 2000. 12. This is his fifth career suspension. We obviously know that, you know, the blessing, the curse that Draymond brings. But when you're looking at this suspension, the thing that where I think Draymond crossed the line was not just necessarily having Rudy Goldberg in a chokehold, but just for the length of it, it's one thing to try to separate him from Clay Thompson, but he just dragged him almost across the court before guys could start intervening. So it just seemed like because of the history that Draymond and Rudy Gobert have with going back and forth, that Draymond seemed prepared for this moment and pounced at the first opportunity that he could.

So you mentioned the history, and let's talk about that history. As you point out, Draymond Green has been ejected from 18 games in his NBA career. He has accrued more than 160 technical fouls. He has, by my count, 19 flagrant fouls in his career. And he has compiled almost $1.5 million in fines from the NBA. So when the NBA talks about Draymond's history, that is what they are talking about. That's why this suspension was more significant than what it would have been for other players. And frankly, from talking to people around the Warriors, it was more significant than what they expected.

They expected multiple games. But I think people in Golden State believed it might be two or three. Instead, it was five. Now, you talked about the history between Dremont and Rudy Gobert, and they do have a long history. Nothing like this, but this has been a hostile relationship for some time. Remember, these two guys for many years were competing for the top defensive player award, definitely, but also the distinction of being known as the NBA's top defensive player. They've gone back and forth with each other in the media.

They've had some mini scuffles on the court in the past. So this has been brewing for some time between Dremont and Rudy Gobert. And if you saw, like, during that altercation when it began between Jade McDaniels and Clay Thompson, during that same play, Draymond was barking at the referee because he believed that Rudy was being too, using like an illegal arm motion to clear space from him in the paint. So it was already started to brew a little bit between Dremond and Rudy. But I completely agree with you on the kind of high. this played out had a role in the NBA's decision.

If Traymond had kind of just grabbed Rudy and pulled him away, I don't think we'd be here talking about this. Instead, he put him in a chokehold and he held it for six, seven, eight seconds. That's going to linger with NBA officials. And look, I've heard the argument Rudy shouldn't have been grabbing clay. If you're in the middle of a altercation like that, you should be going for your own guy and not the other

team's guy, fine, but that to me does not justify Draymond grabbing Rudy around the neck like that. Now, Rudy didn't get hurt, but, you know, Draymond squeeze a little bit tighter. Who knows what happens in a situation like that? So I think the NBA, you know, got it right. I think for Draymond, this is another early season warning that he has to be really careful. I mean, the Western Conference standings are already pretty tight. They're going to tighten as the weeks and months go by. This five-game suspension is going to cost the Warriors something. Steph Curry is out right now with a knee injury.

Now they lose Draymond for the next five games. This is going to put the Warriors at a disadvantage over the next week, week and a half. And look, you can say it's an 82 game season. It's a long season and it is. But we might be looking back, Mark, at these five games thinking, wow, they were critical for Golden State. A difference maybe between being like the sixth or seventh seed

in the Western Conference standings or the third or fourth seed. Yeah, you made a really good point about that, about the fragile nature of the NBA schedule. And when you're looking at who the opponents that the Warriors are going to face without Draymond Green, it's pretty notable. I mean, they're pretty good teams, Oklahoma City, Houston, Phoenix, San Antonio. You know, San Antonio, they're obviously having a lot of excitement with Victor, but they're not one of the better teams,

but it is part of the Warriors' in-season tournament game. And so these games are very critical when you combine the fact that Steph Curry is going to be out for an undetermined period of time. And the Warriors have had this weird dual identity to start the season where they started having a pretty good winning streak, a lot of good chemistry with Chris Paul with leading that second unit. But when you're looking at the starting lineup itself, outside of Steph Curry, there has been no consistency at all. They've been consistently inconsistent with Clay Thompson shopping off. Same thing with Andrew Wiggins and Draymond, Kavanaugh-Luny. They're always going to be prioritized and valued more for their defense than any additional scoring.

But when you combine all those other starters together, it's really only been Steph Curry. So what are they going to do? It's a tall enough task to try to mitigate everything without playing with Steph Curry, but even with Steph in the lineup, he didn't have a lot of good help around them. And, you know, that I think leads the warriors into having some. tough decisions to make because, you know, these lineups are fluid. Chris Paul might get some starting run, but I think when you're looking at the benefit that he had with really helping the second unit with literally outscoring every second unit

for every game that they played, that might create more problems than solve them. But they have a lot of problems on their hands, and Dremont is not making it any easier for showing the bad parts of what his intensity brings. You're right about Steph Curry. There was a brief honeymoon period in the first couple of games of the season where we were looking at the on-off numbers and saying, wow, Golden State has solved there. Steph Curry is our only offense problem. Not so much over the last week where they have really struggled to score without Steph. Now they'll be without Steph for at least this next game, maybe longer, be without Dremont for the next five games.

I do wonder if we look back and think about this kind of pivotal period in mid-November. as costing Golden State something in the playoffs. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year.

Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th.

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Listen to the Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Hey, this is Robert from the Stuff to Blow Your Mind podcast. Joe and I are both lifelong Star Wars fan, so we're celebrating May the 4th with a brand new week of fun, thought-provoking Star Wars-related episodes. Join us as we tackle science and culture topics from a galaxy far, far away, such as the biology of Tontons and Wampas on the Ice Planet Hot, or the practicality and corporate business sense of the Sith rule of two. Listen to stuff to blow your mind on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever

you get your podcasts. Let's talk about Houston because you just called them Mark Medina a pretty good team. And I agree with you. They're six and three. They're a very good team right now. Who would have thought that at the start of the season? This was a Rockets team that over the last few years has had win totals that have looked like locker combinations.

They have a great offseason. They bring any Mayo Doca as the head coach. They bring in some veterans to support those younger teams. And now they start the year at 6 and 3 headed into Friday's game against the L.A. Clippers. Now, Mark, the first months of the NBA season are always filled with surprise storylines. Last year was Utah, right? For a little while, Utah was leading the Western Conference standings. Well, they ultimately fizzled out and finished at the bottom of the bracket.

How do you view Houston? Do you think this rocket start is somewhat sustainable? Do you think the rockets are going to be in the playoff or play and mix all season long? Or is this another nice story to start the year, but one that will eventually come crashing back down to Earth? No, I think this is a real deal and this is sustainable. I didn't certainly anticipate that they would be reeling off six-game winning streaks to start the season. I thought it would just be the growing pains of sorting things out. But I think that long term, what we're seeing right now is what we're going to see later down the line,

where you know more than anyone, Chris, the impact that Emae Adoka can have on a good team for making it good to great with holding guys accountable, bringing the best out of a team defensively. But they brought in a lot of great veterans with Fred Van Blyte. He did a really good profile in Dylan Brooks showing that, you know, he's not just the guy that talks, you know, what about LeBron James. He is a really good defender. and while his playoff performances against the Lakers last season left a lot to be desired with his shot disappearing from him, he brings a lot of other intangibles that really help this group. And, you know, I think the other thing that we have to talk about is what Zengun's done defensively.

I mean, he has been almost night and day with what he showed this last season. And part of that, he's a young player, he's learning the ropes, but it really just seems like he's a lot more consistent with his performance. preparation, his execution, and that is a lot of, I think, influence from what Adok has brought to the coaching staff so far. Look, they're top 10 in offensive and defensive efficiency. Now, do I think that's sustainable? Probably not. They're probably going to come back to Earth a little bit in those categories. But do I think this team can be in the play-in mix? Yeah, I do. Look, coming into this year, I thought a couple things about Houston. I thought they, would have some really rocky moments early on as they were getting adjusted to the new roster

and the new coaching staff. But as they got to the midseason point, I think they'd start to improve. I think they'd be a really good team in the second half of the year, 500-ish team in the second half of the year, probably because that's kind of what I saw from Emei Odoca in Boston. Granted, that was on an entirely different talent level. But the Celtics were really bad in the first two, three months of Emeo Doca's tenure. You fast forward to January 5th,000. February, March into April, they were excellent. So I thought that would be a path that the Rockets would follow. They have turbocharged that path because right now they are playing legitimate defense

and they're scoring at a really high level. This was a team that last year was bottom five in offensive and defensive efficiency. Emeo Doka's completely turned the tables on that. I love how their veterans are fitting in. Fred Van Vleet has been exactly what. what this team needed at the point guard position. Dylan Brooks, you mentioned. I wrote about him in the magazine this month.

He has brought to them a feciness, an attitude, a swagger that this team badly needed. And one thing about Dylan Brooks that I think people kind of overlook when they're talking about his narrative and looking at his narrative. Yeah, he's the swashbuckling trash talker who got in the metaphorical face of LeBron James in the playoffs last year. This is the guys had to work for everything he's ever achieved. He was a lightly recruited player coming out of high school, turned himself into a Pac-12 player of the year at Oregon. He was a second round draft pick who turned himself into one of the best defensive players in the NBA, one worthy of an $86 million contract from the Rockets last fall.

So he is bringing a work ethic that these younger players are able to look up to and able to kind of gravitate towards. Sangoon's interesting. And maybe he's the one I'm concerned with the most. I think offensively, he's going to be excellent. He's got a little bit of that Nicola Yokic in his game. I don't think he's a great defensive player. And I think over time, that's going to bear itself out.

I think it's going to cost them some games on the defensive end of the floor. But that doesn't mean this team can't be like 15th, 16th, 17th in defensive efficiency, which would be a big jump. They can be right around there or better in offensive efficiency. And that's going to put them right in the play-in mix. That's really going to put them, you know, fighting for one of those seven to ten spots in the Western Conference, which for the Rockets, what a win that would be. Like, even if you don't get that play in spot, if you're competing for it in year one of Imeyodoka, and you can go into year two with a more experienced Jalen Green, with a more experienced Alperin Sangun, with a more experienced Jabari Smith that we haven't talked about, that's a big win for them. So I think this is a play-in competing team over the course of the season.

Yeah, I agree with you completely. And I think that even though we've both recognized that, you know, defensive offensive, offence of ratings and statistical performances, that's going to be fluid throughout the season. I think the bottom line is that their identity has fundamentally changed, where the narrative, rightfully so, the last few seasons on them, was that they had no culture. It was a bunch of young guys just trying to get their numbers and nothing else.

Mark, that wasn't even a narrative. They didn't have a culture. Like, look, I criticize Raphael Stone a lot over the last couple of years because it just seemed like the Rocket's front office philosophy was to acquire as much talent as possible no matter how it fit and how many character issues that talent had. This year, they are constructed the right way. They got good veterans who fit the definition of what this team wants to be, a defensive-minded, tough-minded type of team.

So, you know, all credit to Raphael Stone in that front office. I gave them grief the last couple of years for how they built the team. Then they have done it exactly right now. Yeah. And how we evaluate front offices is not just trades that they make well or draftics they make well, but how do they rectify mistakes? And this is obviously clearly a step in the right direction where IMEODoka and those veteran players, they're going to make sure that the young guys are playing the right way.

and that starts defensively and doing things that contribute to winning basketball than just trying to satisfy people's fantasy lineup rosters. Yeah. You know, they're a good team. They're a good team. A surprisingly good team. And top to bottom credit there, Eme Adoka right now, coach of the year favorite by a mile. Like even if that team just finishes around 500,

EMA Odoca to me is the coach of the year for turning that team into what he's turned it into up until this point. All right. On the flip side of this discussion, you've got the LA Clippers who start out the James Hardin era, O and 5. They have some absolutely grotesque moments in games. The first game with James Hardin against the Knicks, they collapse in the fourth quarter. A couple of games later against Dallas, they have an absolutely atrocious second quarter, which effectively put the game out of reach. Against Denver this past Tuesday, look good for most of this game. Harden in the fourth quarter against the Nuggets, he is 0 for 1, zero points. Played about five and a half minutes in that game. Oh, for one, no points on the fourth quarter of really kind of a must-win game against Denver. Tyloo is still trying to figure out a rotation that works with this team. He has now pivoted to let James be James, which is an interesting approach to take with a player like James Harden. What do you make of the Clippers?

Is this situation fixable? How do you fix it? does this team get on track? Yeah, there are so many things to unpack with this, Chris, because I think from both what we've written about this deal, we've both been coming through the lens that through all the pros and cons of it, we're on the side that when you weigh what James Harden brings, good or bad, it's better than the clippers just trying to rely on the role players that they gave up. But the bottom line is this sample size, even though it's small,

it's big enough to know that this is not sustainable at all. And while I do trust Tailu's ability to make adjustments and trust that five games eventually can lead to more progress after 10 games, 20, 30 games, it does remind me of my early takeaways when I was watching how the Lakers were trying to incorporate Russell Westbrook. We're clearly, even though everyone's saying, let Russ be Russ, and now people are saying,

let James be James, there was just this feeling of this weird dichotomy of all parties deferring too much to each other, but not making the necessary adjustments to change their games. And we've already seen this story before with Russell Westbrook, you know, with either coming off the bench or staggering minutes with the second unit. His weaknesses are his weaknesses. And there's no way around it. The clippers might be able to absorb it. better because they still have some relatively better shooters than the Lakers did, but it's not

like they're gangbusters in that department. And look, we're not going to put this absence in significance, but the fact that they only have one big right now with the beats of Zubots, Mason Plumley being out, that doesn't help matters either. And so while I do think that it was still the right move relative to depth and the fact that even though Kauai Leonard and Paul George at this point are fully healthy because of their injury history, I just don't trust that that can sustain long term. I do have a lot of skepticism on whether this group can really bring out the best in each other and bring out the necessary sacrifices. And it's ironic because at least in this point to a man, everyone's saying and I think showing the intent that they don't want to be

the selfish guy. They want to make this work. But when the games and style play just don't align, It kind of is what it is. Yeah, and to your point about their front court issues, I don't think Daniel Tice is going to resolve them. Even if Plumley comes back within a couple of months, they still have that lingering issue. I think Kauai Leonard and Paul George will figure it out. I think they're too good, too smart, too adaptable

to not figure out how to play effectively with James Harden. I'm less optimistic that Hardin-Westbrook can figure it out. And you're seeing early on how that has become a problem for Ty Lou with his Clippers rotation. I mean, I was in New York for game one mark. And watching Russell Westbrook play on the ball while James Hardin played off the ball to start the game was just weird. It didn't seem to make a lot of sense making James Hardin kind of a spot-up players.

Hardin is noted in the last couple of games. He's kind of being asked to do more of what he did in Oklahoma City, which was like a lifetime ago for James Harden. So it's pretty clear that was going to be an awkward fit back then. And then you fast forward to like the Memphis game where the Clippers make that furious comeback in the fourth quarter and they do it with Hardin on the bench for most of it because Ty Lou had realized at some point during that game that, look, you've got to either play Westbrook or you've got to either play Harden. And there's really no two ways about it. It was so strange watching them play offense defense with Westbrook and Hardin over the final couple of minutes

of that comeback. And to watch Harden go out in the fourth quarter against Denver and just lay an egg, be inactive completely, it doesn't give you a lot of reason to be optimistic that the Harden Westbrook backcourt can find a way to come together. Really to me, Mark, the only solution, and I hate to say this because I think Russell Westbrook deserves better. But if you're trading for Hardin and you're going all in for Hardin, you've got to go almost all out on Russell Westbrook. Because Terrence Mann makes way more sense playing alongside James Harden in that lineup than Westbrook does. Terrence Mann's not a guy that needs the ball in his hands to be effective. He's a better defender and more versatile.

To me, you've got to play Harden and Man the bulk of the minutes and almost make Westbrook, you know, not almost make him a lesser player. And that sucks. That sucks because since Westbrook got to the Clippers, he has been nothing but a, you know, good soldier with that team. He's been a pretty good player with that team seems to have found a role pre-harden with that team. But I don't know if there's a meaningful role for Russell Westbrook when Hardin is going to be playing 30, 35 minutes every single night. It's brutal. It really is because I think Westbrook found something with the LA Clippers. But with Hardin now on board,

and the Clippers seemingly all in on James Hardin being part of this group. I don't know how you make it work, do you? I have skepticism, but I think that here's the things that we should keep an eye on. When that trade happened, you know, and the opposing team's GM told me exactly what you just said, that keep your eye on if it doesn't work with Russ, that they would trade him before the trade deadline. Because one, it might be easier because his contract's not as large as it was

when it was with the Lakers. But, you know, historically the Clippers have been pretty, active, basically since the Kauai Leonard-Dorja era, that they've always made deals. And that could give them the additional defense of shooting depth. As far as the ability to make it work, I think that I do trust Ty Liu to make the best out of everything. I don't know if that's going to lead to ultimate success, but I think that he can find a way because of how he manages players and is very creative with lineups to make the best of a bad situation from becoming potentially toxic. So I think that he can have a buy-in for Russ to maybe play staggered lineups.

And he's already tried that. It hasn't completely worked yet, but I think that he'll just continue to experiment with, you know, which starters he keeps with Russ, which reserves he keeps with Hardin. But no doubt, it's clear that the path that they're going to go is the more that they separate those two players from each other after the initial starting lineup rotation is the way they're going to go.

And I think the interesting irony with this is that I trust James Hardin and Russell Westbrook, relatively speaking, of being that primary playmaker, because one, James Hardin's a better shooter, and B, he's a really good passer when he wants to do that. But I think the problem with James that Russ really helps address is he moves at a faster pace.

And I think on one hand, you might think, oh, well, this is good in theory. You give the clippers two different kind of look against opponents, but it can't be to both extremes. When James is running the show, they can't just be moving that it's plotting pace and very predictable pace. That's not what the clippers are effective at. And so, yeah, there is a recipe for this to work, but it just seems like, as we've seen, through these last six games so far, that to play it out in real time will result in a lot of growing pains and a lot of losses. And while it is early, the clippers are the first to admit

that they wanted to put more priority into this regular season so that they can have more of a ramp up into the playoffs where they feel like they have all the chemistry issues locked down. And by making this gamble, they took a step back with it and we'll see if they can make two steps forward. But it's a long road ahead of them to do that. Mark Medina, check him out on Sportskeeda, the Messenger Sporting Tribune, watch him on Spectrum,

listen to him on Fox Sports Radio. Mark, I appreciate it. Chris, appreciate you as always, man. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite on Humor Me with Robert Smygel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel

help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends. on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged.

It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the eye heart.

radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, this is Robert from the Stuff to Blow Your Mind podcast. Joe and I are both lifelong Star Wars fan, so we're celebrating May the 4th with a brand new week of fun, thought-provoking Star Wars-related episodes. Join us as we tackle science and culture topics from a galaxy far, far away, such as the biology of taun tons and wampas on the ice planet hot, or the practicality and corporate business sense of the Sith rule of two. Listen to stuff to blow your mind, on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.