The Herd with Colin Cowherd - 3&Out - Sauce Gardner gets PAID, Terry McLauren is NOT happy, Shemar Stewart may RETURN to Texas A&M

Episode Date: July 16, 2025

John opens the podcast discussing reports about the NFL having a collusion issue which John thinks is a ridiculous argument. Next, John dives into the Jets continuing to pay their guys, this time they took care of Sauce Gardner and why paying him is risky, but the right decision. Later, John dives into Trey Smith signing a $94 million contract extension with Chiefs making him the highest paid O-Lineman in NFL history. John then dives into Terry McLaurin talking to the local DC media voicing his frustration with the Commanders organization. Finally, John answers your questions in this episode's mailbag segment. 4:35 - NFL has a Collusion issue 9:18 - Sauce Gardner gets paid 14:55 -  Trey Smith makes history 19:44 - Terry McLaurin is not happy 23:27 - Shemar Stewart may return to Texas A&M 31:04 - Mailbag Follow John on Twitter, Instagram and YouTube for the latest. Check out Gametime - the fastest growing ticketing app in the US, and the official ticketing app of 3 & Out and GoLow -  for tickets to all of your favorite NFL, NBA, NHL, NCAA teams. Concert and comedy show tickets, too. Go to Gametime now to create an account, download the app and use code JOHN for $20 off your first purchase. #VolumeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Staying cool, keeping that AC pumping. I know I just paid my AC bill. Thing is not low, but you don't have a choice when it's 145 degrees outside. Luckily, we're here to talk some football. and the NFL business is a booming. So we had some guys get paid today. Soss Gardner, the jets go back to back. The new administration pay their highly drafted corner, former all pro.

The Kansas Chiefs pay their Pro Bowl guard, Tray Smith. So we got money flowing. But there is a guy named Terry McClurend, Scary Terry in Washington who is not happy with his current situation. And I think after we've seen some money, get given out at that position. Scary Terry wants a lot of money. So we'll discuss some of that.

And a funny story that I saw in regards to the Bengals. But a lot of football stuff going on right now. I cannot complain. We were getting some breaking news, some stories coming down the pike in the middle of July before even most rookies have reported a training camp. I am happy. So we will discuss this coming up. But before we do, you know, I got to tell you about my friends.

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Last minute, take as low as prices, guarantee. Before we dive into Sauce Gardner and Trey Smith and Terry McLaren, I do just want to take an overall view. There was a story that broke within the last couple weeks by the Big Jays.

Pablo Tori, Mike Floreo, and they were riding for it hard. The NFL is colluding against its players. And it had no traction. No one cared. And the two guys they talked about I mean, the one leading guy was Kyler Murray. And I look today that

Kyler Murray at the end of this season will have made $170 million playing in the NFL. Justin Herbert was another guy that was used in this story. Colluded, keeping his wages down. He's 27 years old. At the end of this season, he will have made $155 million.

I bet when it's all said and done, both guys will combine for way more than $500 million playing in the NFL. There has never been a bad thing. better time to be involved in the business of football. Hell, where I am sitting right now, I worked in the NFL for three years and have parlayed a career talking about the sport that has put me in a position that I couldn't have dreamed of in basically any other industry.

I think about it a lot with the media. I mean, think about one of the biggest media stars right now. Pat McAfee was a punter. Signs for hundreds of millions of dollars over the last four or five years with multiple companies. The New Heights podcast with Travis Kelsey and Jason Kelsey just signed a contract for $100 million. It's a podcast they do once a week. Pardon my take, the biggest sports podcast. Let's Be Real. Started out and is still mainly a football show. The guy I work for, Colin Coward, who's arguably the biggest guy in the business. What is he really known for? Talking about

football. Obviously, if you're involved as an owner, as a player as a coach, as a GM. Do you know, I've known multiple GMs who bought second properties as in like lakehouses or property in Florida that would been reserved 10, 20, 30 years ago for stuff the owners would have done? Maybe, maybe the superstar coach in 2005 or 2000 because they were the guys only making big time money. Now, everyone is cashing in.

We see guards in the NFL now signing for more guaranteed money than some wide receivers. Trey Smith, a year after Brandon Ayuk, got $75 million, essentially got the same thing. He plays guard. So it is crazy, and I've said this forever. Football's not going to stay on top forever. That's not the way the world works. I don't care what industry you're in. I don't care how good the times are.

it does not last forever. Now, that could be a 50-year run, a 100-year-run, a 25-year-run, I don't know. But right now, it doesn't get any better. The game has never been more popular. We have never had more people watching. College football now with this playoffs, I mean, the ratings on the college football games of the regular season last year hit like historic highs.

So the minor leagues, which is what that sport is for the NFL, Obviously, the draft has never been more consumed. There's never been a better time to be interested in this sport, to be involved in this sport. Obviously, if you're talented enough, to play in the sport. Economically, it's not even close. And I feel very fortunate that as a kid, I fell in love with football. And as a guy who was terrible when he actually played in high school, I loved it. and I loved everything about it.

And for the last 20 years, once my high school career ended, I have thought about it basically every day of my life. And been lucky enough to be involved with it. And even as I left it to stay involved with it. And it is insane how far it's come. And where it's going, like at this rate, I don't even know. So I'm not surprised when those guys tried to break this story about collusion, everyone with a brain basically just said, isn't that kind of business? And I don't really see anyone

getting screwed here. And the business is absolutely booming. So listen, guys like Soss Gardner and Trey Smith, I would imagine they got big smiles on their faces today. So let's talk about Soss Gardner, who had a rough year last year. And I've talked about it that as I was told by a guy who was pretty close to the situation, they just said, listen, and Jets fans know this. They started officiating him a little bit differently, and it did not go his way. And let's be real about him as a player, his skill set, like Derek Stingley, who got more guaranteed money than sauce gardener. Some place, Schaefter originally tweeted, he got $60 million. Then later it came out, $85 million.

Regardless, he got a lot of money, not as much as Stingley in terms of guarantees, but he got paid a lot for a new staff coming in off a rough season. Now, he was drafted really high and he's achieved in terms of individual success a lot so far in a short period of time. But certain players like Dorel Rivas or now Stingley or Patrick Surtan, while Prime, you know, I wouldn't call him Richard Sherman as a tackler, in terms of playing on, playing off, he could do anything. Because his athleticism was beyond elite. and typically the best corners are the best athlete on the field in terms of change of direction, in terms of speed, in terms of stop and start, in terms of recovery speed,

in terms of explosion, because they don't know what's coming. Yet they follow the guy who's typically the best athlete on offense everywhere. And the best ones don't allow any space between the other guy. So that is not sauce. He is not some four three guy. He is not Mr. Dion Sanders in a short area changing direction and exploding. He is a guy who is going to be, his success is going to be predicated on being physical.

Right. That is going to be his thing. That was Richard Sherman's thing. But the thing Richard has is Richard tackled like he was a middle linebacker. He's one of the greatest tackling big corners you'll ever see. Jalen Ramsey was kind of unique because like Richard, especially early on his career, he would hit, but he was also a great athlete. So in terms of change of direction and just explosion, he was pretty special.

Sauce is going to get in you and attack you at the line of scrimmage. And to me, depending on how they're officiating, that can be kind of risky to invest in a player like this. But the one reason I'm okay with buying into this, because I thought pretty bold move. It's one thing to invest in Garrett Wilson. He's proven he can produce with anyone at quarterback, any idiot calling the plays, and he's just a special talent. Sauce to me is like pretty scheme dependent. Well, their head coach, former corner, former DB coach, former defensive coordinator. So that is his area of expertise.

And if he believes in them, because Sauce has been open this offseason, like, they've been hard on me. They've been in me. They think there's more there. Now, part of investing in Sauce, even as Aaron Glenn, who's a DB guy, is like, are you comfortable doing this? There are some variables a little bit that's out of your control. Like they want to put that yellow flag out of their pocket and throw it on the ground. Nothing you can do.

So I think there's risk involved in this. But if you told me this was an offensive head coach who just got this job, I don't know if I love it. When I see Aaron Glenn, who played in the NFL for a long, long time, who has proven to be not just an excellent DB coach, but an excellent defensive mind, totally understand. it. And like a little bit of a tip in the cap for Joe Douglas. I mean, two guys that he drafted really high. The new administration comes in and immediately gives, you know, if you don't factor in

the guaranteed money, well over $200 million to two players. So ultimately, that's what you want when you draft really high, right? You want to get a guy that you are comfortable with giving a ton of money for a second contract. And that's what the Jets just did, even though their head coach and GM had nothing to do with drafting these guys. Now, you could easily counter me and go, Middlethoff. It was fucking Garrett Wilson. Your mom could have drafted him. It was Soss Gardner, who was widely considered a top five lock in most drafts. I'm like, yeah, I hear you. But still, we see a lot of high draft picks, new coaches, new GMs go, yeah, I just, I want to invest in my own guy. And that wasn't the case. And I always give coaches that come into a situation that's been

pretty ugly. And I know these guys have had individual success, but from a team standpoint, it wasn't pretty with the Jets. And believe in the player. Because I think it's easy to come in and paint most guys with a negative brush. Like, this isn't my guy, this isn't my guy.

Can we trade this guy and get a lot back? And they didn't do that. You know, they did that with Rogers. But in terms of their young assets, listen, if you would have told me they traded Soss Garner this offseason for you know, a first round pick and two two-toes or something. I'd be like, listen, the NFL, new administration, new ideas,

maybe not an ideal scheme fit. Maybe they think they can do more with other positions. I would have understood it, but that, that is not the tactic that Glenn and his GM took. So if you're a Jets fan and you bought those jerseys a couple years ago, because listen, I've seen it before. I've seen Kaleel Mack. I've seen Kahliel Mack be defensive player of the year, John Gruden, get there and trade him before training camp. A lot of Killele Mac jerseys were sold and with Oakland Raider fans. Hell, just around the NFL. And then boom, he's on the Bears.

So you can never say never. The other guy is Trey Smith. And I think one dramatic shift that I've seen in the NFL since I got out of it and have been looking at it from this view is the importance of guards. I would say, you know,

Center, because of the communication, because of their ties with the quarterback, I would say has always been viewed as a very important position outside your tackles. Most obviously offensive line coaches value all five positions, but I'm saying most head coaches from a big picture of view value their center a lot. I think guards depending on the coach, depending on the quarterback, have always been viewed very, very differently.

You know, if you remember Sean Payton and the Saints in their heyday really valued that position because Drew Breeze was smaller and they wanted to protect the inside because that's how he stepped into the throat to pass. You know, I've seen Tom Brady and Peyton Manning make Super Bowl runs with random undrafted free agents playing that position. When I first got in the NFL in 2010, I mean, we're talking by this fall, that would be 15 years ago. There was a small handful of guys that you went,

that guy's a really good pass rusher inside the garden center. So either playing defensive tackle, nose tackle, lining up somewhere that wasn't considered an outside rusher. They didn't really exist. I would say over the last decade, they are everywhere. There used to be the occasional like JJ Watt, a guy that could line up multiple positions, but just a true, I'm Aaron Donald, I'm Jalen Carter,

I'm Chris Jones, I'm Buckner, I'm just one of these guys who's gonna line up over the guards face, over the shade of the center, and I am fucking coming at that ass. they are everywhere now. So the power of a guard, you have seen their money fly. I mean, the amount of guards right now

making $15 plus million is pretty nuts. If I would have told some guys 20, 30 years ago that guard was going to be treated, I would say, as good of, if not better than like linebackers and safeties, people would have been like, you're nuts. But that is simply the case. Now, when you have a great guard,

it's no different than having a great any position. You want to keep the player, and that is Trey Smith. But he just got $70 million guaranteed. And more than likely, if he's healthy, and he doesn't have a major injury, his play is not going to drop off, and he is going to play for a while.

And let's face it, one thing with the Chiefs right now is their tackle position last year was a question mark. And really it has been, since they had the Mitchell Schwartz, Jake, Eric Fisher, almost a Jake, Fisher, Eric Fisher combination. They've been trying to figure out how to fill the left tackle and

right tackle positions. Last year, a couple years ago, they went after Trent Williams as a free agent. They thought they had him and last minute the Niners came in. I mean, they have tried. And this year they drafted the Ohio State tackle who I was actually watching when I was watching the Kelsey podcast with Matt Nagy. That's where Jason Kelsey mentioned, who clearly watches the offensive linemen for Howie every year, said, I think this guy's a freak show. Like, he is the closest thing I've seen in the last couple years in terms of movement-wise to Jason Peters and Trent Williams. Now, injury-wise, we'll have to see how he responds, but if he is a healthy guy, like,

that has a chance to really fulfill that offensive line. So we know they have an excellent guard. We know they have an excellent center. I think the BYU guy, they drafted last year that they put out at tackle. I think ideally they might bump him into guard. And it wouldn't shock me at all if the chief's offensive line, now this is not a new player for them, but I would imagine they're going to be better this year.

And I think he's showing you their investment in the guards in the center position shows you how important it is to shore up the middle of the field. Because the Eagles are a great example. They get so much credit for investing in their offensive line, offensive line, offensive line. we'll think who they're paying, right? Obviously, the two tackles, but they've invested heavily in the center and the guard position. And they went from having Jason Kelsey for a long period of time to what they have now.

So I think it shows you that being comfortable with your guard and your center, your two guards in your center, but like you can't hesitate because before I was like, oh, we'll let this guy's going to get overpaid and we'll let him walk. Well, if he's a pro bowl level guy and you have a high price quarterback, I would keep him around. So the money that's getting doled out right now is pretty crazy. And that is why Scary Terry is going on local radio, is making comments.

He's not happy because he's seeing the money get thrown around and he's going, I've been on this team for a long time now. I have not missed a game in almost five years. So not only am I a good player, high character guy, I proved last year that the number one asset in this franchise, the quarterback, we mesh. Because last year, Scary Terry had 13 touchdowns. So it's like if I'm going to give you, for the foreseeable future, 80 plus catches, and we know I'm going to be good for with this guy, potentially 10 plus touchdowns every year,

like we just saw what Garrett Wilson got. Now, I understand I'm a little bit older, but this is a position where I can easily thrive into my early 30s and I'm 29 years old. And this is where I always understand. These third contracts with like, Sauce Gardner and Garrett Wilson, we could argue like, is this a good deal?

Is this a good deal? Is a smart deal with players like that? Derek Stingley, any young player. That is their second contract. That is the easiest contract to give when you have a, Trace Smith,

when you have a pro bowl level guy, when you have a guy who's been an all pro. It's like this, the third one is where you just, you ask yourself, is this worth it? You know, especially at the,

these premium positions and that's what wide receiver is. It's not like Terry McLaren just wants a raise of one year. Like he's going, see what Garrett Wilson got? Copy, paste that, send it my way and I'll sign it. And I'll see you. I don't know where their training camp is land over. I don't have a great feel for that area. But wherever they practice, I'll see you there. They won whatever the Vets report. But make sure you send me that contract first. You're just going to give me like, oh, we'll give you a $30 million more and guaranteed. No, no, no, no. I want that contract. That's what I'm worth.

You see that? 13 touchdowns last year on a team that went to the NFC championship game? The heartbeat of this team. And that's what Terry and T.J, while it's complicated for their organization, what you measure in terms of their intangibles is, you know, a huge factor. And I think these teams, like these players and agents, I talked about this with Colin, It's the NFL's not the NBA, but players have never had more juice because they go, I see how much money's out there.

And it's one thing, it's like, hey, we're talking like a $5 million difference. Once you start talking $50, $80 million in real money, it's like, yeah, I'm never stepping foot on that practice field. This is not batting practice in Scottsdale in early March. This is football. And even in training camp where this isn't the Junction Boy. or Buddy Ryan versus Bill Parcells in the 80s. It's still like things happen.

People get injured. People lose seasons. So I got a sign on the bottom line. There's just too much on the line. And I know how much these teams are generating now. So it's really become, I swear, and listen, maybe it's just memory loss. But throughout most of my youth, 90s, 2000s, there'd be a player or two that would be like, yeah, I'm not showing up training camp.

If you told me there were 10 players here over the next week that are like, I'm not showing up. I think that's more than believable. And not every guy is like some first ballot Hall of Fame or so. I think this Washington situation, every time that one of these guys gets paid, even if they're different positions, if you're a guy like Terry McLoren, if you're a guy like T.J. Watt. If you're a guy like T.J. Watt, if you're a guy like Trey Hendrickson, it's hard to get in your car. Day one of vets show up with, you know, your pillow and your video games. Say, I'm here, ready to roll.

I'm going to end on this. This story kind of made me laugh. I don't know who Bud Elliott is, but I like that name. Bud Elliott. Sometimes I just, I think about names that would be good in movies. I was like, that'd be a good movie name. You know, like Johnny Utah. Bud Elliott.

That's just a good name. I was thinking about Tin Cup the other day with Costner. And his name was Roy McAvoy. I mean, think how close that is to Rory McElroy. and Roy McAvoy, that movie was made in 1996. Pretty sure Rory's like 35 years old. So, I mean, he wouldn't even have been on the radar. But Roy McAvoy, that's a great movie name.

But Bud Elliott of CBS believes that Shamar Stewart thinks he can return to school. Shamar Stewart was the 17th overall draft pick by the Cincinnati Bengals. Obviously, him and the team are at odds, right? all these second round picks want guaranteed money. He wants a bonus structure that previously, like the money set, but he wants to be paid on certain dates,

they're pushing back, and it's gotten pretty ugly. Like Trey Hendrickson, he's like, screw you, he basically said the same thing and left. I didn't know this until by guy Bud Elliott said that he has been training and working out with Texas A&M. And I don't know if he's told people around the program,

but there is buzz. he thinks he can go back. Now, listen, I'm not a Bengal hater. I'm not rooting for the demise of this franchise. But that would be the funniest fucking thing that ever happened. I mean, it really would. And you'd go, well, eligibility, there is nothing more irrelevant right now than the NCAA. Every time you look, they're losing a lawsuit.

I don't know why anyone listens to them for anything. I'm always stunned when it's like, yeah, we're suspending our coach to get ahead of the potential NCAA sanctions, I would bend over, spread my cheeks, and say, kiss my ass. So listen, obviously, historically, you can't go to the draft and then just come back and play the season. But in this current climate, where the NCAA feels like a couple months away from folding,

and no one needs them less than, obviously, college football, which is basically their own professional entity at this point, and definitely will be in the foreseeable future. Who would actually stop him from playing? Like, why would you care what they said? Now, I, listen, obviously at this point, you get drafted 17th overall. You, like, I'm not saying he, like, should do this,

but, like, it's clearly gotten pretty ugly. And at this point in time, like, I don't know why they just throw that out there. But the Bengals have had a guy named Carson Palmer, just quit on them. The Trey Hendrickson thing, I understand both sides there. This one, though, this one's got a chance to take the cake.

If you told me right now, what am I rooting for? I would love, like, week one, Shamar Stewart runs out with the Aggies. And his NIL is whatever the equivalent of what is his first year salary. He's like, yeah, he's making like $7 million. Like $5 million, whatever the 17th pick makes, that'd be a trip. But yeah, man, the guy, the guy, the guy, The dude, Bud Elliott, thinks that Shamar Stewart has a backup plan of playing for the Texas San Amgis in 2025.

I mean, the SEC. It's just, it's always the SEC, baby. God, I'm fired up. The British Open is here. The biggest names of golf tainted up across the pond to chase history, the game's original major. Want to make some cash while watching people play golf? You can by betting on the action at Royal Port Rush.

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Bet must win to receive reward. Minimum minus 500 odds required. Bonus bets expire 168 hours after issuance. For additional terms and responsible gaming resources, see DKNG.com. Hey, it's us, the Jonas Brothers. And guess what? We have some big news. What's the news, name? Huge news. We created our own podcast called, Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast?

Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to a... We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts throughout there. But this one's extra special. So how do we actually come up with a name Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it. And we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band before Jonas Brothers.

This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast, people could call in and say, hey, Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it.

Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy. Not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The French Open is one of the toughest tests in tennis, and I know firsthand because I competed there myself. I'm Renee Stubbs, and on the Renee Stubbs Tennis podcast, I'm breaking

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Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear.

The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports Slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to Sports Slice on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slices Life 12

and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Okay, let's do a little thing we like to call the mailbag. At John Middlekoff. At John Middilcoff is the Instagram. Fire in those DMs. First, congratulations on the pregnancy. Appreciate it. it. Former scout, why do you think the Patriots were so bad at drafting wideouts over the last

10 to 15 years? From Dobson to Harry, it seemed like they just couldn't hit on a drafted wide receiver for Brady to consistently throw to. Does it have to do with poor scouting? Or just unfortunate luck? I'm a firm believer of nobody truly knows anything in the draft, meaning a guy drafted number one overall could be a bust or a guy drafted in the seventh round could go on to be a Hall of Famer. You never know what could be happening. I think the Patriots have a pretty good history at a lot of positions, right? They're really good on defense. They've drafted a lot of good offensive linemen. They've obviously drafted productive running backs, tight ends, Tom. But I think certain coaches just don't have a feel for certain positions. And clearly, you know,

Bill was a dictator, right? So his scouts would work on. like most scouting departments. And they have, think of all the guys that have come through there. Obviously, Casario to Jason Light, to Adam Peters, to, you know, Casero's got a couple guys. I mean, they got a lot of people that worked for New England who went on to have success. And he wouldn't listen to him. Yeah, there were famous stories where he'd just kind of do his own thing. And some positions, it wouldn't matter. But others, you know, know, specifically wide receiver, he'd get on the phone with Herm Edwards, and he fell for Nikiel Harry, who I actually kind of liked in college, but clearly wasn't a very good player.

So it to me was a blind spot for Bill. You know, like when you're coming behind a semi, and especially if you're, you know, on a windy road, you're like, I'm going to wait a second because if I get in their blind spot and they pull over, I'm screwed up against the medium. And it's pretty clear that Bill had a blind spot for wide receivers. But Bill can really evaluate NFL players. So it's why Bill was really good at like Wes Welker, right? Randy Moss. He could find guys that had already had success or even players who were underachieving Kyle Van Oye for Detroit and know how to use them because he can watch them in the pros,

know what they're good at and then place them in his thing and he can create his own scheme. But wide receiver, unless you're drafting one overall or Julio Jones, those types. It's a lot of projection. And the other thing, if I'm defending Bill a little bit, Gronk has talked about this. Hard to work with Tom. Basically, once you got to the Patriots in the peak of their powers, it was like taking some kid from Texas

and having him go to China and no one speaks English. It's like good luck learning Chinese, buddy. And they're not changing for you. So you'd get there. It was just a complex offense. Tom had insane high standards. I remember hearing Gronk tell a story one time, like, Tom, you got to lighten up a little bit. You got to be easier with these young guys.

But at a certain point in time in his career, he was not going to change. So I think it was a twofold, right? Bill was weak at that position. And Tom was really, really difficult on young guys. Once he hit, I would say the post, you know, 2010 Randy Moss kind of era, 2011. You know, Edelman was kind of an outlier. and, you know, Edelman, think about their best wide receiver hit of the last 15 years was a seventh round quarterback who changed positions.

You know, so I just think it's, yeah, it's kind of weird, but it's not really arguable. Can you please explain this for those who don't understand the waiver wire? What is it? Why is it? Why is it used as an alternative to trade? or releasing a player? What are the implications for a team that claims a player off waivers? What are the implications to the team that places a player on waivers? I've never really understood it and really interested to hear your perspective. I'm not as dialed in sitting here right now as I would have been a decade ago to specific details, but I'll try to give you a cliff note version.

If I just draft a guy in the sixth round, John Middilkoff, draft John Middilkoff out of Cal Poly right guard. Training camp ends, I cut John Middokoff. He is subject to waivers. So when he goes to the waiver wire, I have released John Middlecuff. He is cut from my team. Because unless you're a vested veteran,

and I'm not exactly sure of that number, I don't want to screw it up. I think it's like six years or a certain amount of accumulated seasons. You can avoid it. It's why like, this guy was a free agent, but let's just say I cut Keenan Allen, right? If I cut Keenan Allen

or I cut George Kittle or got, they're not Trent Williams, they're not Travis Kelsey, not subject to waivers. But if I cut my sixth round pick, he's subject to waivers. Well, at the start of, for the first four weeks of the season, and whatever that cut date is, let's just say it's August 25th, it goes in the order of the draft. so who just picked one overall? Why am I not dialed in?

Who just picked one overall? Who just went one overall? Who was the number one overall pick? Oh, the Titans. So the Titans, if they liked Middilkoff, they could just claim him and then they take the contract. Where it's a little more complicated is

why you saw like Justin Fields and Trey Lance and Mac Jones, those guys cut because or excuse me why I traded for them because when I trade for a player that's a former first round pick and still on that contract

if he's making $5 million and I go he's a $2 million player maybe the team will go well if you pay three we'll pay two and you're not on the waiver wire until the 20th team you trade for him

so it's why a lot of times that Adam Schaefter rap sheet reports during training camp, so-and-so team is going to cut this player. Because if you're like the Ravens or the Lions or the Eagles or a team that likes that guy, you know that he's never going to make it to you on the waiver wire. So you negotiate a trade with that guy. That happens a lot.

So the waiver wire, if you claim a guy on the waiver wire, you take on his entire contract. Typically, it's younger players. You know, there's not huge contracts, right? but I don't know the exact date. Again, I'd have to kind of dive into the rules. But it's pretty simple. When you cut a player, if they're subject to waivers, that gives all the other teams in the league the opportunity to claim them.

And it's just based on the first four weeks, the previous draft order, and I think starting week five, maybe it's week six now, based on the current records in the league. But if you cut, you know, older veteran players, a lot of times they just become immediate street free agents and any team can sign them. The waiver wires are a really big deal. When you work in the league, that thing comes out and on a daily basis, you know, whatever,

a couple of days into training camp. I mean, you are basically from the start of training camp through the season. That is a very, very serious document. And during training camp, the documents a lot longer. You know, random weeks, a lot of guys can get cut. you know, especially as guys are placed on injured reserve, you have to manipulate it a little bit. So you put

a guy on injured reserve to open up a spot because you don't want to cut them because then you can lose them. It's a big part of training camp knowing if we cut this player, try to get him to practice squad. Basically what I was taught, if you're willing to cut the player,

you have to be okay with never seeing him again. Because if he's subject to waivers and he goes on the waiver, any team in the league can claim him. and if he's claimed, obviously he's gone. Question for the pod. With the new Chargers alternate all gold uniforms coming out, it reminded me how much I love the Chargers uniform.

What are some of your favorite team jersey color schemes? I'm pretty simple, man. It's why I'm a big fan of like some of the old school college uniforms. Like USC feels like they got two uniforms. Alabama just has a couple uniforms. Penn State just has a couple uniforms. Not that I'm against.

Oregon, but like, I like the mid-90s, 49ers uniforms. I like the old school, Pittsburgh Steelers or just the simplicity of the New York Giants. I'm pretty simple. Like, I'm not, maybe it makes me sound really old. I just, I don't really care, though I did see the picture of the Chargers uniform and it looked pretty cool. Not going to lie. I thought it looked cool. But I don't spend that much time, if any, thinking about uniforms. I really don't. Maybe it's because I've never really been a jersey guy. I had a couple basketball jerseys as a kid like Michael Jordan. I had Chris Weber when he's on the Kings. But I've never really been a jersey guy. So maybe I just, I just don't think about it.

I know some people are, I'm not against it, but it's just not really my thing. A question for you. I hear so much about how Dan Campbell is now chopped liver and in trouble in the NFC North this year. since the Lions lost both coordinators, mainly Ben Johnson. It is on record from Sean Payton and others that Dan is an actual offensive genius and has a great feel for football schematics. But he's always looked at only as a CEO coach.

I think he's a great offensive mind, CEO of the operation and brings the best toughness versus any other head coach. I think the Lions at least win the NFC North and make another run, your thoughts. I think why he doesn't get crazy. for being a quote unquote offensive genius or a schematic genius, he doesn't call plays. So when you call plays, you get like extra credit.

You get talked about in a different light. Defensive too, right? Even when the guy's a CEO, it still feels like Andy Reid and Belichick are calling these plays. Right? Or it feels like, you know, Belichick is really telling Patricia what to do. and then like Patricia and Flores or Nagy and Biennami or whoever's calling the plays, if they are calling the plays, always give that guy a ton of credit. Well, it starts with the head coach, he's setting the scheme.

You know, it doesn't feel like, especially, you know, Dan Campbell's a tight end, offensive guy. Well, Ben Johnson ran the offense. So, listen, I'm not saying he's not. I think Dan Campbell clearly is way smarter that he was originally discussed when he kind of got the job and his career kind of took off. with the Lions, but you just hard to call an offensive genius when you don't call the plays. As a big Eagles fan, I'm obviously a little bit biased on the Jalen Hertz rankings,

but I feel that Eagles fans' biggest problem with it is what does Hertz have to do to earn more respect as a top five quarterback? Out of some of the quarterbacks ranked ahead of him, he is only quarterback to have an all-pro, which burrow Daniels, Gough, and Herbert don't have, only quarterback to have an all-pro, Super Bowl appearance, Super Bowl win, and Super Bowl MVP. I feel like that is unfair to say

for Mahomes that winning Super Bowls is a quarterback stat, but for Hertz, he's just on a loaded team. Since we don't all quarterbacks, since when don't all quarterbacks who win a Super Bowl have good teams? Not saying you said this directly, but I always hear it in the media.

You said that Jalen Hertz, has an all pro Does he? He was an all pro One of the One of his I guess it would have been three years ago Maybe he was

Let me just double check Second team all pro 2002 Let's look at that season really quick So in 2022 he threw 22 touchdowns And he ran One thing Jalen does He gives you a lot on the ground

Because of the tush push 10, 13, 15, 14. He has 55 career touchdowns on the ground. Here's what we got to be honest about Jalen. Washington, they blitzed him, he killed him. But in that Super Bowl, he's played in two Super Bowls and he's been fucking lights out. So if any human being in life,

regardless how they got there, in the biggest moment of their life, excels, I give you credit. And it goes back, listen, like, I'm not, when Jalen plays bad, I don't think he's like too bright a lot. lights. I mean, the dude played for Sabin. Transferred to Oklahoma. Wally pipped Carson Wentz with the deuses. Like, Jalen ain't scared of shit. But when he plays bad to me,

it's like, he just kind of plays bad, you know, and he's kind of a flawed quarterback in the sense of he's more like a modern day powerful Russell Wilson. Right? He can, he's scramble, he throws a great deep ball, and he throws well on the run. But just from inside the pocket, you guys were crushing him. He was getting crushed in the middle of the season last year. Because the passing game sucked. That literally happened. So it's like, should he be in the top five?

Top five over who? Like, he doesn't play like those guys. And like you said, listen, Mahomes, you say it's a quarterback stat. Mahomes is proven when he has sweet players in a good offensive line, he can throw 40, 50 touchdowns. Like, we know that. over the last couple years, that's just not really how they play. But he's done it before.

You know, you said Jalen second team all pro, 2002. Yeah, he was really good that season, especially down the stretch, second half of the season. He threw 22 touchdowns. I had another person DM me that said, the reason we get so animated about this is because all these other guys, and it's like, well, if Jalen throws like 35 touchdowns, even if they lost in the first round, I'd be like, okay.

But that's not really, I mean, last year he threw 20. And everyone's like, see, he's like fucking put Joe Burrow. It's like, no, Joe Burrow, Baker, these guys are throwing 40. Now, I understand you guys had some injuries, but still you've got A.J. Brown, Devante Smith and an incredible offensive line in Seguan Barclay.

Like, I do think it's fair to go in the biggest moments he's been lights out. But in some of these regular season games, when that's where you really become like, God, I'm just a dominant player. It's like, yeah, he's kind of, he can be hit or miss. He's just a pull-up. a real-rising player. He just is. I don't think that's necessarily going to change unless he has an

unreal statistical year. Passing. He's a great deep ball thrower. He's a great powerful runner. He's an instinctive player. He's clearly just a good player. But like, he's not a top five quarterback in the NFL. Hey, it's us to Jonas Brothers. And guess what? We have some big news. What's the news? Huge news. We created our own podcast called, Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast. Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts.

We're starting a trend. But this one's extra special. So how did we actually come up with a name, Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it. Well, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band. Before Jonas Brothers was... This is how you guys remember it going down?

Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast, where people could call in and say, hey, Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman, Help make you funnier. This week, my guest, S&L's Mikey Day and headwriter, Streeter Seidel,

help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The French Open is one of the toughest tests in tennis, and I know firsthand because I competed there myself.

I'm Renee Stubbs, and on the René Stubbs. and on the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast, I'm breaking down everything happening at Roland Garris. Every match, every upset, and what it really takes to win on Clay. Jen she went. I mean, she went down at three to Rabakina, but I'm delighted. She's an outsider to win the French for me.

And she likes Clay. Listen, Lina Rabakina is arguably the best player in the world right now, and I actually can win on any surface. Because if she's serving, well, good luck. Consider this your court side seat to the French Open. Listen to the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. Last night, a blown call changed a game.

This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source. the athlete themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions,

the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaders to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports Slice brings you closer to the action

with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to Sports Slice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slica Life 12 and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. What are your thoughts on Jackson Dart? As a Giants fan, I'm pretty optimistic. He reminds me of a taller Baker Mayfield.

He's pretty bold. Baker was way better in college, I think. I mean, honestly, I think Baker's one of the better players in the last decade in college. Baker was a legitimate stud. And now he's proven it again. Like, Baker's really good. I don't know, man. He's a fascinating guy.

I remember watching him at USC when he was really young. You love the physical characteristics. You know, last year, I just hard for me to forget that Florida game. I think he's going to a pretty chaotic place. I mean, they haven't been winning. The coach is coaching for his job. It feels like the GM's jamming for his job.

It's a pretty chaotic environment. You know, he did, when he transferred from USC to Ole Miss, like he went to a pretty stable place. You know, I mean, Elaine Kiffin has established himself as one of the better coaches in college football. ball played with a ton of good players. I mean, they had a down year last year when they go nine and three.

So it's like he just played on really, really good teams. And that is not the case. Now, he's not even starting. He's going to be in a meeting room with Russell Wilson, who I saw had a headline today that said he's going to play five more years. I don't know about that. But, yeah, I think best case scenario is they're just solid this year and he doesn't have to play and then they start him next year.

It almost gets a redshirt year. But I doubt that's the way it plays out. Question for the pod. Big Rams fan. And would love to hear thoughts on my prediction for the Rams quarterback situation going forward. I think the Rams will pull another blockbuster Stafford-like trade and end up with Joe Burrow

in the next two or three years. It's a perfect fit for everyone involved. Rams have an extra first round pick from Atlanta. They could flip into more future first rounders and trade with the Bengals. If the Bengals don't, make the Super Bowl in two years. The Bengals organization will get tired of paying everyone

which will make Burrow want to leave. Joe seems like an L.A. kind of guy and I know he would love to upgrade to Sean McVeigh and McVeigh-Light. Also, the NFL would love one of the top four NFL quarterbacks in the NFC. Burrow v. Mahom's Super Bowl would feed families.

You know, that pictures are going viral over the last couple days of Sean McVeigh year one and Sean McVeigh, year nine, he looks better now. And most, you show it to any girl, they're like Botox. I'm like, that's, that's what Botox does. I, like, I've never been one to stick a needle in my face, but he looks fantastic.

You're telling me that Botox will do that. I don't want my face to freeze. I just wanted to look like Sean McVeigh. He looks good. I mean, he literally looks the same at 38, 39 as he did at 30 years old. And then they show Kyle Shanahan, who looked young and vibrant in 2017. I mean, he looks like a guy that drinks. four cocktails and two-pack cigarettes a day for the last decade right now.

I mean, he looks like a weathered SOB. But, yeah, I mean, I think that Sean, I think the Rams, if Joe Burrow ever became available. And listen, you'd be like, Middlecough, stop saying that about our star player, Bengals, man. It's like, well, we've seen that before Carson Palmer. Things can get weird. If it ever does get weird, I would imagine the Rams, just like a lot of teams would be heavily involved. He would be a highly, highly sought.

after player. The amount of money, let's just say like next year, I guess not money, draft picks that would be on the table for Joe Burrow would be, I mean, it'd be, it'd be like an NFL record. You know, it'd be like, wait, they just offered what? 4-1s, 4-2s and 5-5s? How much amount of time do you think you or a team would trade if you knew you would win the championship? For example, the Rams trading all their picks for the 2000.

2021 championship. I think it's dependent on how successful you are. But I can't imagine the bills or the Cowboys wouldn't trade 10 years of guaranteed no championships just for one. I think the thing that always stops people, you know, a decent organization from doing crazy shit,

is they go, what if we don't make the playoffs? What if our quarterback breaks his ankle? And we go 6 and 11. And we've just traded two first-round picks for T.J. Watt. Right? I think that mindset typically stops people from doing things. Because for most players in the NFL, I would say 95% of them, they would be available for the right price.

But it's so easy to say because in football, there's so many variables, injuries play such a big part that people hesitate. and I think if you could guarantee a team a championship, like what would Jerry Jones would trade his next four drafts to win the Super Bowl this year. Without his, Jerry would be the best culprit. I think certain people would be like, no, we'll just play it out. I think the Ravens would be like, we'll play it out.

I think Kyle Shanahan would trade you whatever you wanted for a Super Bowl. I think the two guys that would trade the most would be Jerry Jones and Kyle. Shania. You're guaranteeing me a Super Bowl this year? Do you want fucking Jed York's kids? Why do you think? The Texans signed their second round pick

to a fully guaranteed contract. So quickly. He set a new precedent and put all the other GMs in a bind on signing their second round picks. Looks like Schneider of Seattle is holding firm. But I got to think there are a bunch of GMs out there pissed at Casario right now. You know, what's funny is like,

this was a story that I didn't even know existed until it became a really big story of all these guys holding out and clearly it's going to hit like the rubber's going to meet the road they're out of fork in the road over the next I would say week are all these second round picks not going to show up when the rookies report

and I would say that I think there's a decent chance a lot of them are not going to show up so the second round picks are going to a approach it like first round picks used to. Like you either guaranteed my... I don't know. I honestly, I haven't even asked anybody why he would do that.

I'm sure I think the Browns did one guy and obviously the Texans did one guy. Maybe he was getting ahead of it. A lot of people aren't happy. Okay, last question. I heard you say on the last pod, if you put Burrow on the Ravens, they would have beat the Chiefs in the AFC championship. But I also say that if you put Lamar on the Bengals with Jamar and Higgins, that he's not missed the playoffs two years in a row either.

I can understand the Lamar versus Josh debate, but Burrow ahead of Lamar on the ESPN rankings at this point is laughable. Well, I'm pretty sure that Joe Burrow last year threw nine touchdowns against the Baltimore Ravens. Let me see if how game log. So I remember watching the game where they lost 35 to 34. the Bengals. Joe Burrow threw four touchdowns.

He was sacked three times for 430 yards. He played him again, and he threw five touchdowns. So in two games against the Ravens, he threw nine touchdowns, and they lost both games. What's Lamar going to account for 10 touchdowns? Like, you just can't play any better. I think Joe Burrell was as good as any player in the league last year. His defense for the 80% of the season was fucking,

atrocious. So like what's Lamar now Lamar runs but I don't think Vast based on last year you could argue that like if you wanted to argue Joe Burrell was a better player than Lamar

I think that's a fair argument so Lamar Amar through 41 touchdowns last year they had a pretty good season I didn't realize it threw so many touchdowns it's pretty crazy that Lamar won the MVP in 2003. It just doesn't even feel right.

Is that what he did? With 24 touchdowns and seven interceptions. I feel like he was way better last year. That's pretty nuts. How did I not realize he threw that many touchdowns? Yeah, shit. My bad, Lamar. 41 touchdowns.

He's way better. Yeah, listen, I defend Lamar, but I undersold him on that one. But Joe Burrow, one thing that's, that Lamar has not had to deal with that Joe has is Joe's defense last year was atrocious. I mean, it really was.

I mean, Lamar, the Ravens have good defenses. Even last year, they started slow by the end of the season. They were really good. So, like I told Coward, you could make any argument. I'm putting my homes one. You can put them in any order.

Personally, for me, hell, I might take Lamar over Burrow. You know, I, but I'm definitely taking Josh second. And to me, I'm not, I'm doing that without hesitation. I'm going, Mahomes one, Josh second. I might just take Lamar because Joe's had a couple of major injuries. But regardless, like I, I'm not going to argue with you, whoever you're going to take. But I'm putting Josh too.

And that to me is all the matter. Otherwise, like, you know, the one thing Burrow has over both those guys, like, I figure out a way to beat the Chiefs in Arrowhead. You guys ever going to do that? So I think that's kind of a Trump card. Now you could argue that's like a NBA rings analogy, but still, I mean, that's, that happened. And the, shit, the Bengals were leading that playoffs, or I mean, that Super Bowl late in the game. So, yeah, I just think we spend so much time arguing over these things.

It's like, in football, not everything is the same, right? The team Jalen Hertz plays on is a lot different than the team. The Arizona Cardinals, the Houston. There's so many variables, how good your defense is, who's your play caller. And, I mean, the one thing Lamar has going for him, no different Patrick Mahomes is like, best organization in the league. The bills, I think have established a really good organization. I would not put them ahead of the Ravens or the Chiefs. I mean, the bar is set in the AFC.

It's Andy Reid and John Harbaugh in terms of like the best run, consistent organizations, offense, defense, just drafting, just overall operation. I think the bills are damn close. We'll see how, like, if they can sustain it over a decade-long period. But the Bengals are not. So he is not, those organizations are so much just better run, more money, just a higher level operation. And that's where I think people try to, like, you got to bring context into it, you know. The volume. Hey, guys, it's us.

The Jonas Brothers. I'm Joe. I'm Kevin. And I'm Nick. And guess what? We created our own podcast called Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it.

We just contributed to it. We get to ask other people to do podcasts. We get to ask other people questions because we're sick and tired of being asked questions. Well, sick and tired is a strong way to put it, but, you know. Tired and sick. Tired and sick. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen.

We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. on Humor Me with Robert Smygel and Friends, me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, S&L's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform?

We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, fam, Sam. It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Tolodano. It's our favorite. favorite time of the year on our podcast point game, the playoffs.

We're digging into the biggest surprises of the season. And I'm looking back on some of my greatest playoff moments. If we didn't talk ever again, I was crying. You just understood. That's how personal it got. Wow. Then after that game seven, Mark keep coming to him. He's like, you know I love you, dog.

You know, it's all love. This was just playoffs. This was just basketball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Every family has its secrets. But what happens when you discover that your dad has been living a double life? That is not the look of an innocent man. Is everyone lying to me about who they are?

I felt such desperation. I felt it was what I had to do. Listen to Deep Cover the Family Man on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed Hew. Amen.