The Herd with Colin Cowherd - 49ers-Packers, Aaron Rodgers, NBA, & the Herd Hierarchy

Episode Date: October 16, 2018

Colin discusses the MNF 49ers-Packers, how Green Bay Packers QB Aaron Rodgers is keeping his team alive, the start of the NBA season, and the Herd Hierarchy. Guests include Marcellus Wiley, Peter King, Cliff Avril, and Lane Johnson. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Ah, this is The Herd, wherever you may be and however you may be listening live in Los Angeles. Iheart Radio, Fox Sports Radio, and FS1. Wild show today. One hour from now, the herd hierarchy, top 10 NFL teams. Two hours from now, the Eagles Lane Johnson, who I have ripped repeatedly, will join us on the show. Joy Taylor is joining me for a Tuesday today. I've said before, if I blast you on my show, I always invite you on my show. I blasted T.O. invited him on.

Totally respect that. Blasted Baker Mayfield brought him on. Richie Incognito. If I blast you, I make sure my guestbrookers reach out to bring you on the show. And Lane Johnson, to his credit, is not backing down. He has my least favorite quote in the NFL. I'll get to that later. But let's start with this.

over the last two nights, Sunday night and Monday night, most of you think we have three elite Super Bowl teams, New England and Kansas City and then Green Bay last night. And we only have two, New England and Kansas City. Green Bay is not a Super Bowl team. There is a big difference for New England at home being tied with healthy Kansas City, undefeated Kansas City, several stars, Kansas City, no rebuilding Kansas City,

to the Super Bowl, Kansas City. And there's a big difference between the Packers being tied late with rebuilding C.J. Bethard, a bunch of C-minus running backs and playing for next year, San Francisco. Green Bay is not a Super Bowl team. The Green Bay Packers' offense has become, hey, Aaron Rogers, save us. The Green Bay Packers' offense has become, hey, Aaron, we're trailing in the fourth. Can you make some of those really cool backshoulds? or throws. It's not clever.

Aaron is. It's not creative. Aaron is. It's not intuitive. Aaron is, listen to this stat. In the last three years, this is with Aaron Rogers. Green Bay in the first three quarters of games is minus 91. With Aaron Rogers. In the fourth quarter, there are plus 105. That tells you that Aaron Rogers is a lot.

life preserver for a mostly marginal coaching staff and marginal roster. I watched that game last night. My takeaway was, damn, I can't wait to watch Garoppolo with the Niners next year. There's a bunch of young 49ers. I was like, oh, oh, this is going to be fun next couple of years in San Francisco. They outschemed Green Bay all night. Do you realize on the road with C.J. Bethard, on the road with C.J. Bethard, the 49ers averaged almost a yard more per pass than Aaron Rogers at home with veteran coach Mike McCarthy.

And what really struck me after the game, remember on Sunday night, we watched that precise and exact and that systematic march down the field, nonchalant by New England to win the game. It was a two-minute drill instructional videotape. Like they'd practice it a thousand times. The pacing, the precision, the accuracy. It was almost a seven-on-seven drill. They each knew what the other was doing. Last night, Green Bay gets the ball in the huddle, a minute left, and this is what Aaron Roger said, happened.

David Bakhtiar actually suggested that first play. So I got to give him credit or else he'll tell me about it tomorrow. But he suggested that play and then Ty obviously ran the ball well and got out of bounce. So an offensive lineman turned to him in the huddle and said, hey Aaron,

remember that play we ran last year in November? Why don't you give that a run? Does that sound like how they do it in Belichickland and Brady land? He turned to an offensive lineman who said, hey, hey, I draw it

up in the dirt, but we got grass. Remember that play we ran a couple years ago? Why don't we go ahead and try that one? Yesterday I said there are nine teams I think can play for the Super Bowl this year, capable of beating multiple teams back to back in the playoffs. I needed, though, to see two teams more. Carolina, I'll wait until they go to Philadelphia this weekend and Green Bay. I've seen Green Bay. This is not a Super Bowl team. This is not a Super Bowl team. Schemes. personnel. By the way, if it was not for that gift call late in the game, Richard Sherman was called for illegal contact. Monday Night Football showed about two frames of it. Aaron got sacked. And apparently they get a first down because of right there you're watching it, that move by

Richard Sherman. If not, it's fourth and 19. They're punning the ball to San Francisco, which has all three timeouts left and can go in for the winning score. So Aaron Rogers' career, and I'm not saying he's without some blame, is starting to feel a lot like Dan Marinos, where it's like 12 to 15 years of, wow, he's really good, some real regular limping at the end of it. And when it's all done, why didn't he end up in the Super Bowl more? He was so darn good. that's what it's starting to feel like to me.

I wanted to watch Green Bay next couple of weeks. I've seen enough. Schemes, clever, intuitive, none of it. I was blown away by the effort of San Francisco. I was shocked outside of Aaron Rogers at the lack of schematics, personnel, clever, unique I saw from Green Bay. Let me shift gears to this. The NBA season opens tonight.

acres open in a couple of nights. And the NBA season's long. It is October 16th today, Joy. And the NBA finals generally wrap up around June 16th. So October, oh, that's eight months. That's eight months. And so you can only write about Denver's hosting the wizard so many times. You need eyeballs.

So the NBA media every year or two, or every year I should say, finds a player or two that they got to create some interest. But this year, LeBron's not leaving. He's in L.A. for the next four years. So the big story you're seeing talked about all the time is Kevin Durant is leaving the Warriors at the end of the year. I just saw this one from a Slam magazine, which is the Motel 6 of NBA journalism.

You should get a pom-pom with your subscription. Kevin Durant, I'll believe it when I see it, is going to leave Golden State. Starting tonight, it's eight months of NBA basketball. It's an exhausting NBA season. We really start watching this league in May and June, and you've got to have stories. And this will be a really interesting story. But where's Durant going to go?

The Knicks, just like LeBron was going to go to New York, and Wade was going to go to New York, and Chris Paul was going to go to New York, and every free agent is going to go to New York. He's not going to New York. Kyrie Irving an hour ago said he was going. Then he backtracked until Boston I'll resign. He's going to go back to D.C. is home. hometown? Oh, please. The Wizards players don't even want to be in D.C.

Players don't actually love playing in their hometowns. LeBron's left his twice. It's more of a headache. This whole idea that Kevin Durant's going to join the Lakers. Yes, the Lakers would love that to happen. Magic Johnson would love that to happen. I'm sure Laker fans would love that to happen. But don't kid yourself. these NBA players may appear to get along, but they protect their legacies. And for the first 10 years that Kevin Durant and LeBron have been in this league together, LeBron's won all those years. They only met once in the finals.

LeBron won, Durant lost. But let's be honest, last 10 years mostly LeBron. But the last two, Durant's won. And for the next five and six, Durant can win all of them. meaning the last seven, eight years of Kevin Durant's career, he may have lost the first decade of LeBron every year. He could win the last seven to eight years against LeBron. Why in the world, when these players protect their legacies with every PR firm they can hire,

every top agent they can hire, every shoe company to build their legacy, why would Kevin Durant with an opportunity in the last eight years, of his career to beat LeBron, surpass LeBron, equal LeBron, help LeBron win titles. Not to mention next year, the Warriors are opening a new arena. It will be the best NBA venue ever built. It will be Silicon Valley billionaires with the best owner in the league, arguably, the best coach, the best GM, the best roster. Yeah, I think I'm going to go get involved in that Lonzo-Lavar ball thing.

It's not happening. The NBA season starts tonight. The media, including Slam Magazine, needs something to talk about. There are subscriptions to sell. Kevin Durant leaving Golden State, all believe it when I see it. And I don't think I'm going to see it. Coming up next, sometimes thinking of Brady and Rogers. You get breaks the second half of your career.

They're good breaks and there are bad breaks. And Brady and Rogers, one guy, got to be honest, has gotten a lot more good breaks. That's coming up. Also, top of next hour, the herd hierarchy. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1 and the IHard Radio app. Last two nights, Sunday night with Tom Brady. Great two-minute drill to win it.

Last night with Aaron Rogers, great one-minute drill to win it. And we perceive those to be the best two quarterbacks in the NFL. Brady is the best quarterback. Aaron's very talented. And so Brady was talking yesterday to WEEI. It's a Boston radio station. It's always the station he talks to on Monday. And what he feels is what I see, New England's pretty good again.

I think we're starting to feel confident really what we can achieve. We put it all together for four quarters and I think we all feel like there's play still out there and we're still getting familiar with one another. And if we can just keep grinding

and keep practicing and keep making improvements like, you know, it's tough to stop us. So that's a good feeling. Yeah, I still have my reservations about Josh Gordon, who I think is really talented and could be a huge bonus if he can stay clean post- Thanksgiving I think a lot depends on him.

Josh Gordon gives them a deep threat. He's a terrifically talented player who has a history of struggling with substances. So you cross your fingers, you root for the young man. He's super talented. And I think he's more important than we think. They've got the tight end. They've got the running backs. They've got the slot receivers.

You've got to be able to go over the top occasionally to be to Pittsburgh and to be to Kansas City with the way the NFL works today. But it's interesting, if you'd ask me eight years ago. So I watched Brady on Sunday and I watched Aaron Rogers last night, Joy. And if you'd ask me eight years ago, who over the next eight years is going to get to the Super Bowl more, I would have taken Aaron Rogers, who was going into his prime and it felt like Tom was going out of it. But this happens a lot, sometimes, almost without exception. When you go back and look at legends in any field, the people who rise often, they deserve respect, but they get a series of breaks and timing.

Think about this. Look at Tom Brady in the last seven, eight years. Peyton Manning retires. His chief rival, the Steelers, have become increasingly noisy and dysfunctional. The best young offensive coaches appear to be going over to the NFC, Sean McVeigh, Kyle Shanahan, Doug Peterson, Matt Nagy, Sean Payton still may be the best, NFC. and the AFC East, Tom's division, has gotten worse over the last seven to eight years.

Used to be Herm Edwards is in there. Then Rex Ryan had some good defenses. It's gotten worse. And a lot of the quarterbacks drafted in the AFC in the last seven, eight years that we're going to challenge Tom. Bortles, Mette, Mariotta, Mazzel was a bust, Paxton Lynch was a bust, Andrew Luck is hurt. Deshawn Watson has no support. Now, so Tom's gotten a series of little breaks. I'm not saying they're all massive, but they're little.

Now let's go look at Aaron Rogers. Okay, his primary rival is Drew Breeze. He's still playing, and there is, there's no question. He is still one of the top three guys in the league. Peyton Manning left Tom. Drew Breeze is age better. Still looks like he's in his peak. The best offensive coaches in football have mostly gone over to Aaron.

Aaron Rogers side, the NFC. Again, Matt Nagy, the Bears in his own division, Sean McVeigh, Kyle Shanahan, Carson Wentz's coach, Doug Peterson. Many of the young quarterbacks drafted in the NFC to challenge Aaron Rogers, oh, they've been great. Gough looks to be great. Carson Wins appears to be great. By the way, when he comes back, Jimmy G. appears to be really good.

Russell Wilson's going to be a Hall of Famer. Cam and Matt Ryan will get boats for it. And also, whereas Tom's conference has gone downhill in the last seven or eight years, the NFC North is better. Chicago Bears look like they have a very promising future. The Vikings have been really talented for three or four years. So, you know, this will probably never be built into the greatest of all time. And I think Tom is that and will always be that.

But if you look at rivals, quarterbacks, coaching, division, Tom's gotten a series of breaks, good breaks, and Aaron Rogers has gotten a series of bad breaks. You think about who Tom really has to go through for the next couple of years. The dysfunctional Steelers, which New England owns, and Patrick Mahomes and Andy Reed. Now, that's a real roadblock. That's real. But he's a baby. Whereas Aaron Rogers is going to have to go through the combination of Goff and McVeigh,

Jimmy G and Shanahan over the next four years. Breeze and Sean Peyton and Carson Wentz and Doug Peterson. And that's a real roadblock. And he's turning 35, Aaron, and he's limping more and more. He was limping by the end of last night's game. So Brady has had a few good breaks. Last seven, eight years. Aaron's had a few bad breaks.

Joy Taylor with the news. No, no, no, no. Turn on the news. This is the herd line news. So we spoke a lot yesterday about the fan who threw the beer on Tyreek Hill being banned from Gillette Stadium. And now we have another update. The Foxboro Police Department have charged that fan with disorderly conduct and throwing an object at a sporting event. And yesterday Hill's agent Drew Rosenhouse said he was talking to the NFL and the NFLPA about their illegal options.

He said, quote, that type of behavior is unacceptable. Players have to be protected and we want that fan to be prosecuted. Wow. That is interesting. So they're going to go, they're going to aggressively go after suing or, I mean, listen. Well, let's put it this way. If he decides to climb into the stands and puts his fist in the eyeball of the fan that threw the beer on him, what happens to him? Do you think he gets sued?

Yeah. I mean, so he deserves to be sued if that's what he wants to do. Want some, get some. Like, that's what I'm telling you. Like, whoever, these are not the kind of people that think that there are repercussions to their. I talked to an NFL player off the air yesterday, and he said, listen, man, I was in this league for a long time. It's gotten progressively worse. It was always bad, but as salaries have elevated among players, there is a sense among fans, hey, they're worth $100 million.

They can take my crap. Right. And this time, it was over the line. It was over the line. Well, you're going to learn today. So the Steelers are obviously already tired of Ante's perfect. and on Sunday in the third quarter with her win over the Bengals, Antonio Brown caught a pass over the middle,

and Burfeck did what he is infamously famous for. After AB was well wrapped up, Burfect flew into the pile and drew a flying elbow to the back of his head. He's a dirty player. Yes, very well documented. He was a dirty player at Arizona State. He's a dirty player now. Well, Ben Roth's at Berger said after the game,

he hits a bead and literally, as I am under center for the next play, he points at Juju and says, you're next. How do you allow that stuff? I told him that my wife was praying for him. He didn't like that either. He doesn't like anything. I mean, this is just who Wante's perfect. He was a dirty college player.

This is who he is. I mean, it's like, you know, nobody in the league is surprised. Listen, and this is a division that's always been tough and physical. And especially the Bengals and Steelers have a long history of this type of stuff. If Big Ben is noting it, then it's noteworthy. Because Big Ben doesn't say that about Terrell Suggs. He didn't say that about Ray Lewis. No, and he takes hits all the time.

There's some bad blood here, though. So according to telephone networks, Ian Rappaport, Burfick, is not expected to be suspended, but will probably be fined. So we'll see how that plays out. And sticking with the Steelers, Levy on Bell's absence will apparently continue for another week. One more week of this calling, according to a new report by Adam Schaeft of the team is not expecting him to return further by. A report earlier this month said that Bell was aiming to come back around week seven or eight in the hopes of suiting up for Pittsburgh's game against Cleveland on October 21st. So it continues. I'm shocked there's been no takers for Lavian Bell.

I've got a theory I'll talk about later, but there's been no takers for him. I mean, Lavian Bell has historic numbers. Cary's catches. Well, I mean, it could just be because of his contract situation that it would be a rental situation. So how much are you going to trade and what are the Steelers willing to give for? $15 million for that type of production? I think there's a lot of teams like Indianapolis. Oh, there's teams that could use them.

but are you willing to trade what the Steelers want for Levion for a rental situation? Now, if it gets you a Super Bowl, sure. But how many teams are on the verge of winning a Super Bowl that need Levion Bell? I'd love to see New England do it. They don't. They're not going to do that, though. I know. And their running game is solid right now.

I know, it is. You're right. I think it'd be fun. It would be fun. I'd love to see Green Bay do it, by the way. How great would Aaron Rogers and Levy and Bell be? I would love to see you. Green Bay is one of those friends.

franchises. I have no idea where they're spending the money, but they're apparently tapped. I mean, seriously. Like every year, it's like Green Bay is like, you know, we just don't have any money here. And I'm like, okay, who are you paying? And by the way, Aaron's contract just now got money, but the previous eight years, you weren't paying Aaron. I don't know. You wouldn't resign Jordy Nelson. You got to pay some of these players. Green Bay apparently is using a credit union and they just, and then, by the way, the Rams, the Rams are going to Zurich and using some bank that nobody else use because they can pay everybody. I don't know. I don't know how it's working over there.

Joy Taylor, the News. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by. The Hurd-Ly News. Ten years, a Super Bowl, outspoken, now a member of the media, which I love, brought him on the show this summer. He hit it out of the park.

Let's bring in Cliff Averill, who was outspoken about Pete Carroll, is outspoken about everything. And look at him. Talk about a well-dressed man. Making us look terrible, Cliff. First of all, I got a bone to pick with you. Because I got my notes.

So in one hour from now, I have Lane Johnson to Philadelphia on. Now, I'm a loudmouth, and when I do criticize players, I always invite them on the show. I invited Baker on, Baker Mayfield, I invited Richie Incognito on. I blasted T.O. I invite them on. I always appreciate that. And Lane Johnson, I have blasted, and he's coming on today. So I love him for that. Total respect for that.

But he has my least favorite quote ever, and I hear you agree with it. He said, oh, God, I get sick to my stomach reading this. He says, you know, I'd much rather have fun and win a Super Bowl than be miserable and win five. Yeah, yeah. That is awful. You agree with him. I agree from the standpoint of, so I've been on both sides of it, right? I've had Coach Carol, who's a player's coach, and I've been in Detroit where we didn't mean.

It was, it was, to the point where I hated driving to work. Like on my way to work, I'm like, man, I can't wait for these next seven hours go by. I can't wait for this next eight hours ago by. And it just made the day longer. I didn't enjoy the game. When I got to Seattle, I enjoyed the game. I don't think one time in five years, I was like, oh, my gosh. It was more like, I can't wait to get to work.

We're going to have fun. It was a fun atmosphere. Okay, so Seattle's known for a fun atmosphere. Yes. I've argued, and I think you've agreed with me, there's a lot of noise, and it was very pro-player. But in the end, that dynasty closed quickly. New England isn't necessarily anti-player, but it's work. Yeah, I hear it's not fun, though.

Well, who do you hear that fun? I can't name guys, but no, I've heard that it's very militant. It's no different from a lot of other teams in NFL. I mean, it's very militant. It's by the book, there's no laughing. Some organizations have you have to have your shirt tucked in. It's like that militant. You don't like that?

No, that doesn't make you a better football team. As you can tell, there's a lot of teams that don't win with that same philosophy. But now with Coach Carroll, his philosophy was a lot different, and he's won a lot of games over the last eight, nine years. Not as many as that militant Belichick guy. But he also hasn't been coaching as long as the militant Belichick guy either. I mean, Coach Carroll in the last eight years is probably one of the top winning his coaches right along with Belichick. So you would rather win less and have a little fun?

I would rather have fun. That's what it was because at the end of the day, I mean, all these guys, that's what made them so good. what made them so great at what they did is what they were having fun doing it. Now, when you bring the business aspect of it, you bring the militant aspect of it where it's dreadful to go to work. I don't think you get the best out of your players when you do that. So there's a couple stories here that I think you can really relate to. You were on an Owen 16 Lions team. Yes, I was. That was miserable. And I don't think the Raiders are a very good football team. Although I do

think offensively, they'll win a few games in this league because they have players. Gruden has come in. He trades Khalil Mack. I loved great player to keep his position. So, you know, I watched them this past weekend, and Cliff, that second half looked like they, those guys came from that locker room and they were beaten. The body language for the Raiders was terrible. So what is going through that Raider locker room now? New coach, not winning. You're not even in the shadow of playoff teams.

What's going through those Raider players' minds right now? Well, it's the uncertainty, right? When you get a new coach, they want their players, right? When I went 0-16, pretty much the next year, Coach Schwartz, Jim Schwartz came in, and he pretty much got rid of everybody. I think at one point he tried to get rid of myself and a few other players as well. So when coaches come in, they want their players, they want their quarterback. They want someone that's going to buy into their philosophy.

He might feel like the people before him, they're not all the way in, and he can mold the new guys into being his players. So I think that's the biggest thing with the coach aspect. And from the players' perspective, it's the same thing. It's like, man, I don't know if he's going to keep me around. I don't know. Like, I don't know if I'm going to be here. That can be good for a locker room.

No, that's terrible. And again, the mentality of being militant, because he's probably extremely hard on the first year, the new head coaches come in and they try to, you know, make things their way. And a lot of players might not be with that philosophy. And it makes it to be a miserable locker room, makes it to be a miserable time being at work. And if guys aren't having fun, I really believe, you know, they're not going to be successful on the field, and it'll show. Another interesting thing. You were critical of Pete Carroll.

You said, you know, a lot of Hikumbaya stuff does wear old. But I will say this. Seattle has rebuilt its team. They are a run-first team now. And you're a sportscaster in Seattle now. And I'm from the Pacific Northwest, so I watch him. And I've been critical of Pete before, too. But I've got to give him credit.

They have stuck with some of those young offensive. lineman. They are now a 60 to 64% runover pass team. And I've watched them the last three weeks, Russell looks comfortable. They don't turn the ball over. They're taking it away. Seattle feels interesting to me. For sure. They've got a lot of things going right. They're running the ball extremely well. Really well. Over the last three or four weeks, I think they've had over 100, 100, 120 yards of rushing. And also, you know, that opens up the offense so much for Russell. Russell's not running the ball as much as he used to. He's not. But he doesn't have to either. If you have a running back, that's thinking I can do it for him. So he's not taking the pounding. And then

it opens up the play action. It opens up those explosive plays that you see Lockett getting. Now Doug is getting back in the mix of things. So they have a good combination of things going on. And then on the other side of the ball as well, the young D. Lyman that they have with Frank Clark, Jaron Reed, Quentin Jefferson, all those guys are playing pretty well as well. I mean, last week they had six sacks. So if they're figuring it out. And Coach Carroll has the right group of guys with them right now, that believe in this philosophy, that believe in the message, and they're figuring it out. And I think a lot of people were questioning them going into the season.

This year, I think they're going to be better than a lot of people thought. No, the last three weeks I've watched them, and there's Pete's done a nice job to kind of reboot it. Let's get back to physical football, and they've really looked efficient on offense. No turnovers, running the football, converting third downs. Okay, so the NFL, you know, listen, most jerseys that you're not. get sold or offensive players. Yep.

But I believe that what you want to do if I ran the NFL, I want to protect my players. You guys are assets. I want to protect all of you. Now, defensive players are complaining about the game now. But I'm watching Aaron Donald. I'm watching Von Miller. I'm watching Khalil Mack. Just like everything in life, pilots have to retrain.

They're stripping the ball. They're grabbing players. They're not throwing them down. In the end, even for the end, even for the first. for a guy like you that was a pass rusher. The league is better. You all make more money if quarterbacks are not driven into the plants.

Yes, and no, but we have to protect everyone. If we're going to protect, if we're talking about player safety, we have to protect everyone. Don't you still get a sack, though? You still get credited and get a bonus check. If you get a sack, you don't get bonus points for driving him into the ground? But the thing is, people are tearing their ACLs,

and people are stopping on sacks because they're worried about bringing this guy down. They're not worried about these chop blocks as much. They're not worried about these hands to the faces by O. Lyman to the D-Lyman is more so just one-sided. That's what D-Lyman feel as if. For me, I feel like it's a good time to be out of the NFL as a past rush, because guys are, it's just a lot harder to make sacks. It's a lot harder to tackle someone, you know, because you have to process this all in a split second.

Sack fumbles definitely are key. That's become a big key. Guys are going for the ball. But guys are also missing a lot, too. So for me, that was a big thing of mine. I used to love getting sack fumbles because it was, one, a lot easier than actually bringing them to the ground. But then, two, I didn't have to worry about how I tackled the quarterback. So more guys are conscious of that.

I still think it's unfair because, say, a D tackle, he gets pushed into the quarterback. Now he has to try to maneuver and get out of the way, and now he tears his knee up. Or now, you know, he misses the sack and the quarterback still launches it for 30 yards. That's not fair to the D-Lignment. Cliff Averill, 10 years, Pro Bowl, Super Bowl, So it's an interesting thing in regards to Green Bay. We watched last night. Now, there are obviously in the NBA, I see time and time again,

star players giving up money to go play with other good players. We rip Kevin Durant, but Kevin's like, I'm going to get fewer shots and less money and win. I have always defended players who are willing to move to a place that doesn't help them individually. or financially, but they go for the win. Because I think as a player, I'd want to be in a winning team. I wouldn't want to be in a crappy team. But it is interesting. Green Bay can't land free agents.

But I could go and join Aaron Rogers. Because in the NBA, Paul George is like, I'll stay in Oklahoma City. Kauai Leonard's like, I'll go to Toronto. I'll stick around in Toronto win games. Why don't players go to Green Bay? Is it that bad? The difference, though, now, you compare.

In the NFL and the NBA, there's guaranteed money, right? So the money is a lot different. And in the NFL, you only have a short window to maximize what you're going to get is a lot shorter. So are you going to risk going to Green Bay per se and take less money and you blow your knee out? Now you don't have the opportunity to make that money back, right? So you're going to go after the money first and then worry about winning. So you generally worried money first. Yes.

Yeah. And then money first and then, like, let me ask you, how much would go? Green Bay have had to pay you more for you to go there. Be honest. With the winning team and the weather, shoot, a couple more dollars for sure. Quite a bit, yeah. Now, what would New England have to pay you more to go knowing it was militant? In comparison to going to Seattle? Yeah.

It'd have to be a lot more, too. Okay, so you got to pay me more if I'm in a small town or if I got a militant coach. I mean, now, don't get me wrong. If I don't have any other options, then, of course, I'm going. But if I have options. That's what I'm saying. Good players have options. Yeah, good players have options.

If you have options, you're going to go to where, one, you feel like you can serve, you'll thrive in the defense. And then two, how much money you're going to make. I mean, going to Seattle's a no brader. There's no state taxes. There's a lot of different things that play a role into where you go. And the NBA is a lot different, again, because one, they're on the road a lot. And then, two, their money is guaranteed.

So you can't really, I don't think you can really compare those to the two leagues from that standpoint. By the way, Paul Allen, Microsoft co-founder, of the Seattle Seahawks, great for the Pacific Northwest. He gave a lot of money in Portland and a lot of money in Seattle, and he passed away yesterday. Did you know Paul? Did you often see Paul? Yes, Paul used to be around a lot, actually. He was one of the few owners, I believe, that after a win, he would literally shake everyone's hand. Like all 53 players, coaches, staff, everyone, hand after a game.

And to me, that's pretty cool to see. That's humbling. And it's like he disappeared after that, too. You wouldn't see him. He's not the raw-wrot guy. He's not meddling. No, no. He's not in anybody's business.

He shakes your hand, tells you good game. And then you see security and everybody's gone. And then Coach Carroll kind of goes into his whole thing. But that's cool to see because, I mean, one, we're talking about a billionaire here. Like, he could easily want the spotlight on him. And he didn't care for that. And then also you talk about just some of the stuff he's done. He's done in the world from a philanthropy standpoint.

Unbelievable. Oh, my gosh. I mean, and he supported all his players that did the same. I think that was huge. It shows that he wanted to make a difference in the world, not just in Seattle or just for himself. Cliff Avril. Great seeing you, man.

Happy for you. He's a sportscaster in my hometown Seattle on, what's your station? Give it a plug here. Oh, 950 KJR. 10 to 1 every day. Okay. I got buddies on the other station, but that's okay. That's fun.

Thanks, Cliff. Good seeing you. Thanks for having me. Top of the hour. It is our herd hierarchy. Coming up next, LeBron Lakers debut, NBA debuts, tonight. That's next. Dollar Shave Club delivers the products you need to look, feel, smell your best of your door.

They have a handsome discount. More you buy, more you save dollarshapclub.com slash Colin C-O-L-I-N for a special offer. At the top of next hour, my herd hierarchy, and Peter King. So we'll have a great 20 minutes, no commercials, all in, top of next hour. Joy Taylor is joining me. So the NBA season start tonight. LeBron and the Lakers start on Thursday. They will be obviously the most captivating team. I've never in my career talked about the NBA in October or November of any note,

but LeBron and the Lakers will be a topic. I think they're going to be somewhere between 46, 47 wins and 51. I think they'll get their footing about January and start rolling. An NBA scout told Sports Illustrated yesterday, the Lakers roster, I think we said this a week ago, is better than Cleveland's roster last year, top to bottom. And I made the comparison about a week ago. I said, Brandon Ingram is a better defender, younger, healthier, and I believe will be by the end of this year better than Kevin Love.

Kyle Kuzma, in 2018, is a better player than Tristan Thompson who can't shoot. I'll take Rondo's assists and defense over George Hill, and I'll take KCP at a two guard over goofy, crazy. I love him, J.R. Smith. I also think the Lakers bench is better. They're younger. They're a better defensive team. They're longer and quicker.

and LeBron's great with both. But here's the thing to remember, and this happens a lot. Things change quickly in sports. About four or five years ago, the West was loaded, and the East was awful. The difference between the Western Conference and the Eastern Conference is not as great as everybody thinks. Now, the West has more stars, but let's look at the West right now, what's the Lakers playing it. I think it's overvalued. Minnesota, they have a Jimmy Butler debacle on their hands.

will absolutely affect the quality of play. They're supposed to be a playoff team. Oklahoma City. You did see how the Westbrook, Paul George thing, ended last year in the playoffs. Disarray. By the way, Westbrook's missing the opener. That's because they've had to mess around with his knee,

scope it for the third time. The Spurs lost their best player easily, Kauai Leonard. Portland? What the hell are they? New Orleans, DeMarcus cousins, Rondo, gone. Houston. They got older. They got Carmelo.

Some think they got worse. Mello's never been great for any locker room he's been in. Oh, no, by the way, Chris Paul's been hurt in each of the last five years. And then there's Golden State, which doesn't give a rip about the regular season. The only two teams in the West that feel young, hungry, and well-coached, and really talented are the Lakers in Utah. Lakers in Utah, to me, have sort of a Boston Celtics feel, where you're not. you're like, they got some good young players. They're hungry. They're well-coached.

They'll take the regular season seriously. Not everybody in the NBA. Now, the bad teams all want to win. But in the NBA, it's about preserving yourself in the regular season. Most good teams don't care about playoff seating. The Celtics do because the Celtics are going to win the East, and they would like to have home court advantage over Golden State, open the series and close it against the Warriors.

The Celtics will be a true. tremendous, a tremendous regular season team this year. They're good and they'll take it seriously. Utah is a much better team playing at home than on the road. They're a young team. They need home court. They also, their style of play with Quinn Snyder, the coach is very aggressive. They got Grayson Allen, who's a very intense player. They've got young stars. Utah will be a very good, take it seriously, regular season team that would rather host. Remember how Westbrook melted down in Utah? They rather host Westbrook than go on the road to Oklahoma City and face a Westbrook.

Utah will take the regular season seriously and be a very good regular season team and the Lakers. I mean, LeBron is not coming here. He was mailing regular seasons in mostly the last two years in Cleveland after he won that title. Okay. LeBron's going to take, LeBron's got a young team, he doesn't want to embarrass himself, there's a lot of doubters out there.

Now, I don't think they're going to be great until January. Chemistry was an issue, even with D. Wade and Bosch. Chemistry was an issue early, even with Kyrie Irving and Kevin Love. They won't be great until January, and then they'll start rolling. But we are massively overvaluing how good the West is right now.

There is utter dysfunction. Kauai Leonard left the conference. New Orleans lost two good players. Oklahoma City is what they are. And by the way, Westbrook now in his 11th year, I think he's on the back nine. They're now messing around, scoping that knee for a third time. And in the east, I got Boston, Toronto,

Philly, and Milwaukee. They're young, they're well-coached, they're hungry, and they've added pieces. So I do think the Lakers are better top to bottom. They've got a good coach. They got good length. They got good defense. They have an emerging star in Brandon Ingram.

And I think if you look and you size them up against the calves, player for player, they're better. They're deeper, they're younger, they're hungrier, they're longer, and they're more talented. They don't shoot the three ball as well. You've got to cross your fingers that Kuzma kind of clicks on the three ball, that Lanzo gets a little better on the three ball. There's some finger crossing here, no doubt. Top of the hour, Peter King and the herd hierarchy. Let me just throw this out there.

I saw a story. We were talking about John Gruden. and there's a story out there broken by Jay Glazer that the Raiders are going to trade Amari Cooper. Now that's a story that's real. It's gaining steam. It could happen here in the next couple of days. John Gruden trading Amari Cooper.

And I'm going to get into this more next hour. I am not a believer. The world's changed in stockpiling a ton of picks. I think that's overvalued. If you look at the teams that I mostly like in this league, Philadelphia is talented, L.A. is talented, New Orleans is talented. The Chargers are talented. My belief on the way the NFL works, you got to nail your first round pick. Get a star. The Philadelphia Eagles. Fletcher Cox star. Lane Johnson star. Carson Went star. Derek Barnett, damn good. If you look at the Rams, Gurley first round star, Gaw first round star, Aaron Donald first round star.

If you look at the Saints, many of the Saints' best players are first round home runs. You don't have to nail the draft. The Chargers, Melvin Ingram, Melvin Gordon, Joey Bosa, Derwin James is a stud. You got to nail your first round pick and then sprinkle in good free agents. I don't buy that 13 picks get you to a Super Bowl. You got to hit home runs in the first, get notable players in free agents. agency and get the quarterback right. It's the herd.

Ah, hour two. This is the herd. Wherever you may be and however you may be listening live in Los Angeles. Iheart Radio, Fox Sports Radio and FS1. Peter King joins us in about 12 to 15 minutes, as he often does on Tuesday. Lane Johnson in 40 minutes. Lane Johnson has my least favorite quote in sports. I'd rather win one Super Bowl and have fun than win five and be miserable.

I hate everything about that. I have criticized him strongly and aggressively. And he will join me today 40 minutes from now and yell at me. So Baker yelled at me. Richie Young Incognito didn't like me. T.O. didn't like me. I always respect people who will come on the couch, man up, and throw it back in my face. Who knows?

Maybe he'll agree with you. Oh, God, no, that won't happen. That will not happen. All right. We do it every Tuesday. The NFL schedule starts on Thursday, Thursday night football on Fox. Then we have a big Sunday. Then you have Monday night football.

And here's my top 10 herd hierarchy. Heard hierarchy. Time is now. Let's go. The top 10 NFL teams, according to college. Number 10. Seattle Seahawks are doing something here. They've won three of their last four.

And Russell Wilson in that stretch, eight touchdowns, one pick, and a passer rating of 116. They have rebooted this franchise. They are 60% running, 40% passing. They've got 150 yards rushing in three straight games, and they lead the NFL in turnover differential. That is a real number. They taketh away and don't giveeth back.

Seattle right now, they've always played well at home. They have a Super Bowl winning coach. I think Russell's a Hall of Famer. They've stuck with an offensive line that was much malignant. and they're running the football. I mean, they ran it all over the L.A. Rams, Aaron, Donald, and Adama Kandu. They went right at them and ran for almost 200 yards. I have Seattle at 10.

Number nine. Minnesota. Listen, sometimes, let's be fair about Minnesota. They've already had to go to Green Bay on a TV game. They've had to go to Philadelphia. They've had to go to Los Angeles to play the Rams. Or at least they played Philadelphia. They've played real offenses and they still lead the NFL in third down defense.

The schedule for the Rams, they're going to face less dynamic offenses in the second half of the year. Or if they face them like Green Bay, they'll face them at home. I think Minnesota is a real team. I think they have the best receiving combination of Thielen and Stefan Diggs in the NFL. I don't always love their offensive line, and I don't trust Kirk Cousins against great teams. But they have faced some real dynamic offenses, and they lead the NFL. NFL and third down defense, which means they get people off the field. That matters a lot.

I still like Minnesota. Number eight. Pittsburgh Steelers. Okay. I don't know. Does Lavian Bell, does he bring noise? I mean, James Connor's working. Seven touchdowns could be eight.

He's averaging 118 yards a game. You know, listen, we always talk about New England. It's a little bit loose in September. Well, let's be honest about it. This is a veteran team, veteran quarterback, veteran coach. Who says Pittsburgh's always going to be great in? September. All I know, I watched them play Atlanta, and I watched them play Cincinnati, and they made big plays. The pass rush was exceptional. Their second and pass offense in the NFL, that

matters in 2018, and their second in sacks. By the way, Ben Rothlessberger, for the last five games, has had a hundred-plus passer rating. So Todd Haley's out, new guy in, and I like what I see from Ben. I got the Steelers at eight. Number seven. Philadelphia Eagles. Again, Carson Wentz wasn't 100%. Frank Wright left. Well, now Philadelphia, defensive line. Now, there are limitations here. I think they're kind of a bunch of guys at running back, and I don't think they're great on the perimeter. And their secondary is a work in progress. But again, third down defense, top three in the league. They get you off the field. That's very big in the high-powered NFC. And number two in rush defense, they make you one-dimensional. So I look at Philadelphia. I like

their owner. I like their GM, Howie Roseman. I like their coach and I like their quarterback. And I like mostly like their line play. It feels like to me they're just going to get better as the season progresses. Philadelphia, a seven, but with a chance to move up. Number six. L.A. Chargers. Listen, nobody's talking about the L.A. Chargers. They have a loaded roster. Pass rushers. They went and got pouncy to center. Philip Rivers. Their receivers are every bit as good as the Rams, maybe better than the L.A. Rams. By the way, they pushed a talented Cleveland all over the field for three and a half hours. They physically dominated the Browns.

Their only two losses are the Rams and the Chiefs. They don't really play a home game. I don't know if they have a great coach. They did a trick play this weekend that was immisible. But when I watched them on the perimeter, I watched them in terms of that rookie safety, Derwin James. Oh, God. He may make the Pro Bowl.

He's incredible. That roster, they are low. Loaded. I'm not sure they're not as loaded as the Rams. Number six, chargers. Number five. Listen, Kansas City is the most entertaining team in the NFL. Let's just say it. For years and years, it was Aaron Rogers. They're now the most entertaining team in the NFL. They also have perhaps the worst defense in league history. It's awful. It's 500 yards a game. Death by 1,000 cuts by New England. And also, Patrick Mahomes now has had multiple picks

in each of his last two games. He's a gunslinger. He almost likes throwing off balance more than on balance, but they're wildly entertaining from skill people to Andy Reed, schematics, play design. They're just going to outscore virtually every team they play.

Number four. The Saints. Now the Saints are interesting. I like the Saints. Now, the schedule gets tough now. They've got to go to Cincinnati. They've got to go to Baltimore. They still have to go. They've got to go to Minnesota.

They play the Rams. their schedule is going to get really, really interesting here. But here's the thing. When you can give a great quarterback, a real defense, boy, you get Super Bowl teams a lot. They are number one in the NFL in rush defense. Okay, Sean Payton and Drew Breeze have the best run defense in the NFL. And they have their number one in points. So they score and they make you completely one-dimensional.

And typical of Drew Breeze, he's not, they're not. not turning the ball over. They have the second fewest turnovers in the NFL. New Orleans may be the best team in the league. We'll know a lot in the next month because the schedule, stiffens. Number three. Ravens, this was my dark horse Super Bowl pick. They're going the opposite direction of the league. They want to play defense and run the football.

Listen, you know how I feel about Flacco? When he's pushed, he's good. Otherwise, he's meh. But they've won three of their last four. They're number one in the NFL in sacks. They're number one in the NFL in scoring defense. They're number one in the NFL in total defense. They're one of those teams that wins. It is not that entertaining.

They're the opposite of the Chiefs. They're not entertaining, but they're suffocating on defense in an era in a year when virtually nobody is on defense, Ravens 3. Number two. A New England. Best coach, best quarterback. That two-minute drill, it was cartoonish. It was an instructional video. 35 points plus in three games.

I will say this. They appear to be more running than passing. I think what worries me, two things worry me about New England. Their pass rush is hot and cold. Situational, it was pretty good against Kansas City when they had to flush Mahomes out, but that pass rush is inconsistent, and they really need Josh Gordon to work. He gives them a component over the top. They do not have without him.

I mean, that's why Brady took a locker next to Josh Gordon. You saw in that game. When Josh is in that game, hands, dynamic, strength. He really adds a component that I think they're going to need if they have to go to Kansas City or play the Chiefs again. Cross your fingers if you're a Patriot fan on Josh Gordon. I think they actually need him. Number one.

I mean, the Rams. I thought they'd lose in Denver. Altitude, snow, back-to-back road games. Now, injuries are creeping in. Cooper Cup could be out. the corners aren't healthy, but it appears to be an e-go-less team full of stars. Marcus Peters has been great. Todd Gurley's the man.

Donald and Domic and Sue get along. I think top to bottom, they're the best team in the NFL. But I will tell you this, they are flawed. Their pass rush at times is non-existent. And like every team in the NFL, you get them away from that home comfortable environment. They're not quite as dynamic and efficient offensively. What's funny about them, we see all their flash, but they're really a power running team. They're number one in the NFL in rushing.

Todd Gurley's a monster, they're number one in the NFL in rushing. So for all the flash, they're a power running team. There is Tuesday's Herd hierarchy, and Peter King is right around the corner. Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays at noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific. The next season continues tonight with game four of the NLCS as a red-hot Mani Machado and the Dodgers. Try to even the series at home against Christian Yellich and the Brewers. It all starts at 830 Eastern, 530 Pacific on FS1 and the Fox Sports Act. Somebody besides Mani Machado's got a hit for the Dodgers.

By the way, it was interesting. On Sunday, Boston sports fans got to see the Red Sox beat Houston in the ALCS, and then the Patriots beat, obviously, Kansas City. And then last night, great night for the state of Wisconsin, the Brewers hold on. to beat the Dodgers, got a lead and held on. It's been a close series, either the tying run or the winning run's been on base in the ninth and every game. And then the Packers come back and engineer their win over San Francisco. So it was a great night for Boston on Sunday, a great night for the state of Wisconsin last night.

And with that, via the Coward Global Satellite Network, we bring in Peter King, NBCSports.com. You know, it's funny, I'm watching Aaron Rogers last night. And when the game was over, Peter, I was like, wow, what an effort by the 49. Niners, I kind of felt like Aaron Rogers was a life preserver. Sometimes you win games and you don't go cheering into the locker room. You feel like you survived. That's kind of how I felt with Green Bay last night. I came out of that game more blown away by San Francisco.

Your thoughts? I think San Francisco's defense really, really came of age last night. And one of the things that they have been dying to see is Solomon Thomas being an impact player. And that to me was the most impactful game he's played since being the third overall pick last year in 2017. That's one takeaway. The other takeaway is, look, I know the last 10 minutes of the game are not going to be on C.J. Bethard's highlight reel at all. But to me, this is a guy, there's a reason why Kyle Shanahan likes him. He has a presence. He's, you know, he's Bobby Betherd's grandson. He's a football lifer, even though he's a young guy.

He's going to be in this game for a long time. And he's going to have a place on teams because he's not the most talented guy, but he is going to give you everything he has. Teammates really like him. And look, I'm not saying that the Niners aren't going to be looking at Tom Savage and aren't going to be looking maybe to get another guy at that position, but I think they really like having C.J. Bethard as a developmental guy in Kyle Shanahanan's system. By the way, you know, I said there's a part of Aaron Rogers that as he gets to be 35 in December that reminds me of Marino, and I hope it doesn't end the same way, where I look up and I go, Aaron and Marino gave me 15 years of wow, all-time armed talents, a lot of limping at the end, and I'm asking, why didn't they win more in January? I look at this green. I look at this green.

Bay roster, Peter. Again, there's an amazing stat that the Packers literally are minus 91 through the first three quarters of football games in the last three years and plus 105 in the fourth quarter. Didn't it feel like to you last night that Aaron once again just saved his franchise? I mean, it's the second time in six weeks when you think about it, Colin, that that Aaron Rogers has taken his team on the back, on its back in the last. two, three, four minutes and won a game it had no business winning. And that's kind of how I felt about the Chicago game in week one and the San Francisco game this week.

By the way, so let's go to a couple nights ago, Patrick Mahomes and New England. First of all, it was a tremendous football game. It's exactly what the NFL wants its games to look like. This is why they've made rule alterations. What was your takeaway, not on the Patriots, but on the Chiefs, losing that way. What's your interpretation of how it kind of landed for that franchise? Well, Colin, at the end of the game, I was at the game.

And at the end of the game, I stood outside the Chief's locker room and watched them file in. And sometimes, I mean, I've been covering football for a long time. And sometimes when you see teams in the bowels of these stadiums, you hear an F-bomber, you hear some cursing, or you see somebody really ticked up. off you, maybe somebody throws something, but there's some sign of anger. I don't mean this at all to mean that the Chiefs were satisfied with losing, but I think the Chiefs had the presence of mine to have this attitude. Our superstar quarterback, our burgeoning superstar quarterback, managed only three field goals in the first half. He overthrew two guys who were wide open

for what would have been touchdowns. We still scored 40 points. We scored 31 points in the second half of this game. We went toe to toe with the great Brady and Belichick in their place. So we're going to be fine. We're not worried about ourselves. And that's the attitude that I sense from the Chiefs in their locker room. And look, the Chiefs still have some really tough games.

They've got another game against the Chargers. They play the Rams. in Mexico. So, I mean, they're not going to prance home to be 14 and 2. They're going to have a hard go, you know, to get home field in the AFC. But I think they left Foxborough Sunday night feeling like, hey, you know what, we're pretty good. You know, every year in this league, and you've been covering it for several decades, there is a team that will emerge. A few, a couple years ago, it was Atlanta that got hot late and got to the Super Bowl. last year

October Last year was Philly Yeah Philly in October started chopping it up and blowing people out Is there a team this year that's a little under the radar

We see this every year Peter You get close to Thanksgiving Somebody gets hot Who is it for you this year? It's the Chargers If they can survive this weird, weird, weird schedule stretch

They do not play at their home field for 41 days, Colin. I can't imagine that there's ever been in the modern history of the NFL a team that isn't home for 41 days. But again, they got one of their home games.

They're playing it in London this weekend against Tennessee. They got their buy and all that. But they're a long way, a long time away from home. They're currently away for 11 days in Cleveland and London. And I guess I would just say this.

If they can see, survive the sort of lack of normalcy. They're good enough. Plus, probably in about a month, they will get one of the best pass rushers in football back, presumably healthy and fresh and ready to play, say, the last six or seven weeks of the season, how long it is. But if you're going to get Joey Bosa back healthy at a time when a lot of other, a lot of the tackles, the left tackles and right tackles might be dragging down the stretch. I like them.

The one other thing I really like about this team, you tell me which one of those offensive weapons that you're going to take away. Now that Tyrell Williams has really emerged. Yep. Three catches, 116 yards, physical, tough, Terrell Owens type of player. And I think he's going to be a really big weapon for Philip Ritz. rivers down the stretch. Melvin Gordon. Yep. I think this is a good team, Colin, and they have a chance. Their problem, though,

is imagine. Imagine if they're the wild card team and you've got to, let's say, for the sake of argument, when at Kansas City and at New England to make the Super Bowl, that's a pretty tough road. Yeah, especially for a warm weather team, Kansas City and New England in January are tough places to go. You know, I look around the NFL right now. And if I was the New York Giants, I would consider going after Jacoby Brissette, who I think is a starter who's currently a backup. I would consider Derek Carr. I'm that serious. I think it's a mess there.

But let me segue to Lavian Bell. His numbers are historic. This is a 250 carry, 85 catch guy, gets into the end zone. He's a remarkable, historically relevant running back. No takers. The Steelers are James Conner's got seven touchdowns, 118 yards from scrimmage a game. Are you surprised that the Levy and Bell situation is basically there's no takers? I don't even think Pittsburgh's in a rush.

Are you surprised by that? Here it is, Colin. At least here's what I think. Nobody knows what Pittsburgh has been offered for him, but I wouldn't be surprised if the best offer for him was, let's say, a third-round draft choice. And the reason is, if you trade for Levy on Bell, you have to also sign him, So you're not only giving up, let's say, a second round pick and something. I'm assuming that's what the Steelers want.

But if you have to give a second round pick and something and you have to make them the highest paid running back in history, that's a tough pill to swallow for a team. It has to be a team that has a huge amount of cap room and has some extra picks to give. and in my opinion, the most logical team to do this would be the Indianapolis Colts. Yes. But I don't think they want to hamstring their cap like that. If I were Chris Ballard, the GM of the Colts, though, I think seriously about doing this. Because in my opinion, if you look at the AFC South, none of those teams are untouchable.

Thank you. Jacksonville has fallen back to the back. You have no idea if Blake Bortles is the quarterback of the future. future. Houston, one of the worst offensive lines in football, you don't know how good they're going to be. And obviously, Tennessee is almost a coin flip. They got a really tough defense, but they have not played well on offense. This is an eminently winnable division. It still is. Not necessarily this year, but for the future. Yeah, and I'm not even sure this year. I think the Colts defensive line has been surprisingly good. They've been unhealthy. They get healthier. I'm with you. I think,

I think we got a long way to go in football. Labian, Bell and the Colts. feels like it works for me. Peter King, NBCSports.com. Peter, great talking to you on a Tuesday. Thank you, Colin. All right, good stuff. NBA does open tonight. I've got some thoughts on Russell Westbrook around the corner. Lane Johnson, who does not like me in 15 minutes, Joy Taylor with the news.

No, no, no, no, turn on the news. This is the herd line news. Now, Lane might be tough, but if we can get Russell in here, He's always welcome. He could go right from his surgery on his knee right here to the couch. I will be bringing popcorn for that. So John Mara had a clear message for O'Dell Beckham Jr. at the fall owners meeting this morning.

He had a lot to say, actually, but when he was asked about Odo, the comments that O'Dell made to ESPN, Mara said, I wish he would create headlines by his play on the field as opposed to what he says and does off the field. I think he needs to do a little more. playing and a little less talking. Very interesting. Shots fired. He also said he's embarrassed about the Giants 1 in 5 start, and it's pretty

disappointing, and I am sick about it. All quotes from him this morning. Listen. The media to a fault defends Odell Beckham, because they like him and he's fun. He's a young kid. But your franchise player has got to make more news on field than off field. And right now, O'Dell Beckham, this is the danger of going in on a young, impressionable, outspoken, perimeter player is your franchise face. And Eli's not one of these kind of strong, defiant, hyper-aggressive leaders.

So he's just taken over the locker room. I mean, when you look at O'Dell's comments, though, I'm trying real hard to find the lie. Well, again, I told you this last week. Being authentic is important, but there are times you're better to keep information. to yourself. There are times that you shouldn't say everything you think. Now, now, I... He also,

John Mara also, you know, approved the move last year had to have approved it when they benched Eli. And now they're in the position where they have to ride out with Eli this year. I mean, I'm pretty sure we're both watching the same game, so Odell can't throw the ball to himself.

I mean, I understand it. Like, he probably doesn't want extra noise around a one-and-five team, but Odell wants to win and you just paid Odell all this money. You knew who Odell was before you paid him the money. What did you expect him to do? Now he's going to change? No way.

If anything, he's going to be more outspoken. Giants are a mess. Jets. Here's what's funny. Last 15 years, the Giants have been an accounting firm and the Jets have been a circus. Now the Giants feel like a circus and the Jets, quiet, run the ball, play defense. Sam Darnold, Todd Bowles, feel like the accounting firm.

No nonsense with the Jets. Nothing but nonsense with the Giants. flipped from what it previously was for the last 10, 15 years. He was also asked about taking Sequin Barclay and not taking quarterback, and he said we went with the best player in the draft. I still believe he was the best player in the draft. I don't think Seqwan was a bad pick, but... I'd take quarterback.

You needed to take a quarterback. All right, so the Browns got blown out at home this weekend by the Chargers, and Jarvis Landry and a few of his teammates left the locker room before fulfilling media obligations. That was something head coach Hugh Jackson wasn't aware of until Monday. Let's watch him become aware. I did not know that. I'm disappointed that happened.

There's nothing to run from. I mean, when you don't play well, when we play good, everybody stayed. You know, when you don't play well, don't run. You know, there's nothing to run from, you know. Again, we have to do everything the right way. Set the culture. So what did Landry do? They left the locker room.

Him and several other players left the locker room before doing their media obligations after the game. Oh, God. You grow up. Like, you just grow up. You got, you know, if you're going to take all the money take all the fame. You've got to sit there and occasionally answer a question. Be a grown-up. Yeah, I don't like that. I just don't, I don't see the point of it. Like, you're going to lose games. You're going to lose games badly sometimes. It happens. And I get that you're frustrated, but even if you stand there and you do what Jalen Ramsey did and say,

I don't know to every single question, at least you're there. You know what? And this, by the way, this is what Baker-Mayfield has to overcome. I said this, is that one of the reasons I like Darnold going to Cleveland over Baker. because Darnold's personality can work with his dysfunction. You know, let me defend Baker here for a second. Baker's talented. I don't think he's number one pick talented. But whoever was picked his quarterback, you better be strong as an ox. You better have the right personality because we got dysfunction.

Cleveland should be celebrating. They played Pittsburgh good. They played great against Baltimore. They should have beaten the Raiders. They lose and Landry's leaving the locker room. And by the way, come on. It's not, you lost to a very good Chargers team. Yes.

By the way, Bill of Rivers is going to be a Hall of Famer. You're on pace to win seven games. There's no shame in losing that game. Like, obviously you didn't play well, but it's not like, you lost the Super Bowl or you lost the season was on the line going to the playoffs and you lost. So you lost the Chargers in the regular season. It happens. You can't skip media obligations.

Finally, the Dodgers face the Brewers tonight in game four of the NLCS on FS1 at 830 Eastern 530 Pacific. This could be considered a must win for L.A. Since they're down to 2-1 already. Yep. And they have by far the best power lineup in baseball. The Dodgers do, but they haven't shouldn't-in-this series. But Machado is the only one hitting. Yeah.

Mani Machado is the only one hitting. Turner had a big hit last night. Rich Hill goes today for the Dodgers. He's got a lot of junk. The Brewers, by the way, Dodgers have gotten to the Brewers pen a little except Josh Hader. Who is unhittable? Josh Hater is the Little League pitcher with a mustache.

He literally is unhidden. for the Brewer. So if the Brewers lead going into the 8th, good night. But the Dodgers, this has been a close series. So the Dodgers, somebody besides Mani Machado has got a hit for the Dodgers. Yeah. And the Brewers are starting. Geo Gonzalez. He only pitched two innings in his game one. Again, that's at 8.30 Eastern, 530 Pacific Night on FS1. We'll be watching. Best thing on TV tonight. Joy Taylor with the news. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by. The Hurd-Ly News. Well, it is, let me just say this. So on this show, is it fair to say that I'm outspoken?

Yes. Okay, I'm outspoken. And I remember my mom, my late mother years ago, said, you're very controversial. And I said, I'm not controversial. I'm outspoken. I don't make stuff up. I have strong opinions. And people don't like my opinions.

But I've always felt very lucky my last company and my current company. Let me say what I want to say. And they don't make me, you know, bridge my comments or no management's ever done that. So I'm not going to do, just to show you that I'm not trying to be controversial, I was going to criticize Westbrook. You can see that picture behind me. I'm not even going to do that right now. I'm just going to do one controversial thing at this hour. So Lane Johnson's coming up and he doesn't like me. And I've ripped him because he got my least favorite sports quote of all time. Confirm that he doesn't like you? Oh, God, he doesn't like me. But either did

T. O. He came on the show. Either did Richie Incognito came on the show. Either did Baker Mayfield came on the show. I totally respect these guys. A lot of people hide. They don't. Lane Johnson's coming on. And I've ripped him because he has the worst

quote in the history of sports. I'd rather win just one Super Bowl and have a good time and wear a party hat. Instead of winning five, hate that. Goes against everything sports is about. And he will join me next. See, I'm not even going to rip Westbrook. I'm not controversial. I don't do too controversial. I'll do that controversial thing in the next hour.

The state of Oklahoma must think I just hate them because I criticize Westbrook for sometimes being a ball hog. I was tough on Baker Mayfield for that police video. And I forgot that Lane Johnson played for the Sooners for a couple of years. The state of Oklahoma must just, I get it less than a zero zero rating. I get a negative rating. I bet you on radio in Oklahoma. He'd a pass to go to Oklahoma. Yeah, but I don't stop my car in Oklahoma. I drive right through as fast as I. I don't even stop for a sandwich at Panera Bread.

I fly right through the state. But I will say I've been critical Elaine Johnson. Richie Incognito, Terrell Owens, Baker. If I'm critical, I invite you on the show. And I always respect. A lot of guys say no. Lane Johnson was willing to come on the show. I have total respect for he, incognito, a T.O.

and Baker Mayfield and via the Coward Global Satellite Network. Lane Johnson, another guy from Oklahoma. Good Lord, that state's got to hate me. Okay, before we get to the nice stuff, I have to confront you on something that drives me crazy. So you have a quote. Put me on the grill. I'm ready. Okay.

Here's the quote. Let's put this up. I'd much rather have fun and win a Super Bowl than be miserable and win five Super Bowls, Lane. It's called work. Does that get you mad? You sleep for eight hours. You go home and hang out with friends for eight hours, then you go to work for eight hours. It's called work.

Does it always have to be fun? I don't know. Make no mistake about it. There is a lot of work being done here, but at the same time, I like to enjoy the people I'm working with, the coaches I'm working with, and go out there at the end of the day and try to get a win. And most time it goes in our favor. And when it doesn't, we go back to the drawing board and try again. Well, you watch New England Sunday maybe. like they were having fun. Isn't winning the most fun? I mean, absolutely. Winning,

winning in this league is hard to do. And when you're doing it, it makes it fun. But just because you're losing, it doesn't mean you're not enjoying the people and the stuff that you're going through it with. I think in this city, when adversity hits, I think that we, I think that we respond well. So whenever our critics come at us, come at me, I think it fuels us. And at the end of the day, I think it makes us play better. thing. And, you know, I'm older. I'm not really a celebration guy. You know, you did the dog mask thing. And listen, you guys won. So it's fun. It was a thing. But you guys are now a target. You're not an underdog. So does the dog mask thing work from this point forward? Because you don't feel like a dog to me anymore.

You feel like the favorites in the league along with New England. I mean, I threw the dog mask as well as my Super Bowl ring in the scookle. So there can be a manhunt for that. I mean, it absolutely means nothing to be at this moment in time. I mean, the only thing that matters is, you know, we have the Carolina Panthers. We're sitting here at 3-3 and 3. There's some games that didn't go in our favor. You know, there were some stakes made by myself, you know, not protecting the quarterback. And, you know, I accept all that.

I mean, I've had many troubles in my career. I've had many waves, you know, pushed in my face, and I just try to surf it and go on to the next obstacle. It is interesting. You were a junior college tight end in defensive. You go to Oklahoma, you become an offensive lineman, and you get drafted first round, fourth overall. Then you have some PED issues. Then you've been outspoken and controversial. You've had a lot of obstacles.

I could make the argument that you're one of the five most well-known offensive linemen in the league, and this is all a strategy by Lane Johnson, to be known to get a shoe deal. Could I not argue that this is all great for you? Shoe deal. Well, maybe not a shoe deal. I need some feelers. Nike wouldn't have me. I need some feelers.

But some of this lane, you're drawing attention to yourself. You're becoming a name. It doesn't seem to be bothering you. Is some of this strategy by you to get talked about known? I mean, I've had a lot of stuff blow up in my face. I think a lot of people were scared to really say how they really feel because of backlash. I mean, I've gone on Twitter after games. I've had death threats.

I've had everything you can have. So when you see that over time, you really become immune to it. And as far as being an offensive tackle, really in this league, over the past, you know, a few decades, you only get recognized if you play bad. If you have a, you know, give up a sack or play bad. So there really is no identity. It's really a trench match in the middle. And then it's a 7-0-7 game with the outside guys.

And really, at the end of the day, it all starts up front. And so if I can get my guys motivated, you know, at the stake of, me getting criticism, I think it works for the better. By the way, you're willing to talk about this. There was a strip sack against Minnesota. Vikings beat you. And everybody was saying, oh, boy, Lane Johnson, he missed that. How does it feel to be an offensive lineman?

And again, nobody talks about you. And then there's a play like that. It doesn't help your team, may have accounted for the loss. What's the rest of the day like for you, the rest of the night? Do you sleep that night? How rough is it? I sleep. It's really just a technique issue.

Really, on that play, I thought an edge defender was coming, overslid. And, you know, that's the intricacies of this game. It's really fine detail. There's a lot of stuff that goes into it. It's not just sliding, like Michael Irvin says. It's not as easy as it sounds. But really, in this game, this league, you get to have a short-term memory. So after that play, there was nothing else done.

I feel like that was really my only bad play in the game. You go watch the rest of it. I'm one-on-one all the time. There is no chip pros around there, really. So, you know, the guy got the better of me on that play, and it only fuels me. Carson Wentz finally clicked last week. You look like, again, a team when Jason Peters comes back. You know, at running back, you've had some injuries, but you look like a real team.

You look like a final six or seven team in the NFL, which is not a surprise. You've got a good owner, a great GM, a great quarterback, and you've got good personnel. Carson Wentz is interesting. He comes from North Dakota. Like you, he doesn't go to Alabama or he doesn't go. I mean, his root is different. Your route is different. When did you know Carson Wentz?

Like, oh, this dude is the real deal. Probably last year, I mean, as things got rolling, I remember when we played Seattle, and he scrambled to the right and made a throw about 50, 50, you remember that throw, 50 or 60 yards. Yes. Close to the sideline. And I saw that, and I was like, I don't think I've ever seen this before. And that's when I knew. That's when I knew he was it.

Just the way he carries himself. I know how you like your quarterbacks. Even kill. No emotion. Thank you. Don't get too high. Don't get too low. Yes.

You don't want to have moxie. You don't want to be cocky. You don't have to say anything. Just let your performance speak for itself. By the way, that's what he does. Do you know Baker Mayfield? I was there right when he was leaving. Yes.

Whenever I was leaving, I knew he had that kind of it factor. Just his personality, he was able to get teammates surround him, follow him. He had that energy about him. And that's all I knew when I was leaving. And then I just kind of saw everything sprout up whenever I was leaving. I mean, after I left. Would you rather have a Wenz personality in the huddle? Or would you rather have a Baker personality in the

huddle? I mean, sometimes Wince gets a little bit fiery. If you run your mouth to him, he'll run it back. And sometimes I'll do that just to test me. And let me tell you something. He'll come back with some moxie, with some personality. But, I mean, to be honest, I mean, it really doesn't matter.

At the end of the day, I have to do my job. Both of them are great leaders, but, you know, there's a lot of stuff off camera that Carson, you know, he's a fiery guy. He, you know, he likes to get this team pumped up and, you know, has a lot of charisma when he does it. Let me tell you something. Your organization, they could have easily nixed this interview. You could have easily nixed this interview because I know my name in Philadelphia. You guys don't love me. But you came up.

The Eagles organization said you can go ahead and go on Cowherd Show, and I appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you. I mean, there's nothing wrong with taking a little bit of heat now here and there. That's the way life works. But it's all about how you confront it. You were good. Thank you, Lane. Congratulations. Cross your fingers. Jason Peters joined you on the O line. And I'm not that big of a jerk. And I thought you were very, very likable today. I appreciate you coming on the show. Surprised you. Thanks for having me. Lane Johnson. He did a good job. He did. I like that. I like him. See, that's the thing. I told you.

See, I told you. When Baker came on, I was like, I kind of like Baker. And then, by the way, and then when Terrell Owen's on, he's cookey, maduki. But I was like, you know, it's okay. I mean, T.O. is not my cup of tea all the time, but I thought Lane was pretty good there. Yeah, I told you was going to be okay. Did you notice he was in the Philadelphia facility and they had a herd backdrop? I don't know how they're, I thought that was kind of snancy.

Very high tech. That was very sophisticated. Well, it's the cowher global network. Do you expect anything less? I was like, how'd they do that? That was an amazing little secret there, the Eagles. And by the way, a lot of these organizations, you know, Oklahoma City Thunder, cowards mean, we're not putting you anybody on with coward.

Eagles are like, yeah, go ahead. Go ahead. That's not an official statement by the Oklahoma City Thunder. I had Doug Peterson on the show, and I ripped him about his book. Stop writing books. And then I had Lane Johnson on. And they, but Philadelphia, I'll say this about Philadelphia. they're not passive aggressive.

Philadelphia comes on the show. I rip them, they rip me. They come. I have total respect for that. Oklahoma City Thunder. Cowards mean. We're not standing anybody on that show. Look at that.

That was the response. I like it. Okay, next hour I'll rip Westbrook. There we go. By the way, Marcellus Wiley is on our show. Next hour, that is great. And why didn't anybody, I think this is fascinating. Some thought behind us.

Why didn't anybody go out of it? after Lavian Bell. I'm with Peter King. I think he fits for the Colt. I think it's a winnable division. I think you're not going to get anybody next year in the second, third round, as good as Labian Bell. Hour 3 coming up.

Could have our best hour of the show. This is the hurt. Hour 3 live in Los Angeles, wherever you may be, however you may be listening. Iheart Radio, Fox Sports Radio, and FS1. 45 minutes from now, we do, NBA season starts tonight. So every NBA season, the last 15, 10 years I've been doing this, I do the three-word game. I take every team in the NBA, and I believe you can actually, in three words, describe every NBA team and their chances going forward.

So we do it every year. It's the three-word game. Our staff working very hard on those three key words to every team. NBA season does tip off tonight. Celtics take on the Sixers, the Thunder, without Westbrook. He had arthroscopic knee surgery. Arthroscopic knee surgery in September. He is not playing tonight, so they will play the Warriors with Paul George and dudes.

Also, Dodgers, Brewers, game four tonight in Los Angeles here on FS1. Marcellus Wiley, a new member of FS1 will be joining us in 15 minutes. Former NFL are excited for that. And let's listen, we all watched last night. It was a great game, by the way. Another showcase for the NFL. Who thought that game was going to be this good? I did not.

And we all watched Aaron Rogers with a comeback win last night. So let me get to it. Over the last two nights, Sunday night and Monday night, most of you think we have three elite Super Bowl teams, New England and Kansas City and then Green Bay last night. And we only have two, New England and Kansas City. Green Bay is not a Super Bowl team. There is a big difference for New England at home being tied with healthy

Kansas City, undefeated Kansas City, several stars, Kansas City, no rebuilding Kansas City, headed to the Super Bowl Kansas City. And there's a big difference between the Packers being tied late with rebuilding, C.J. Bethard, a bunch of C-minus running backs, and playing for next year, San Francisco. Green Bay is not a Super Bowl team. The Green Bay Packers offense has become, hey, Aaron Rogers, save us. The Green Bay Packers' offense has become, hey, Aaron, we're trailing in the fourth. Can you make some of those really cool back-shoulder throws?

It's not clever. Aaron is. It's not creative. Aaron is. It's not intuitive. Aaron is, listen to this stat. In the last three years, this is with Aaron Rogers. Green Bay in the first three quarters of games is minus 91.

With Aaron Rogers. In the fourth quarter, they're plus 105. That tells you that Aaron Rogers is a life preserver for a mostly marginal coaching staff and marginal roster. I watched that game last night. My takeaway was, damn, I can't wait to watch Garoppolo with the Niners next year. There's a bunch of young 49ers. I was like, oh, oh, this is going to be fun next couple of years in San Francisco. They outskinned Green Bay all night.

Do you realize on the road with C.J. Bethard? On the road with C.J. Bethard, the 49ers averaged almost a yard more per pass than Aaron Rogers at home with veteran coach Mike McCarthy. And what really struck me after the game, remember on Sunday night, we watched that precise and exact and that systematic march down the field, nonchalant by New England to win the game. It was a two-minute drill instructional videotape. Like they practiced it a thousand times. The pacing, the precision, the accuracy. It was almost a seven-on-seven drill.

They each knew what the other was doing. Last night, Green Bay gets the ball in the huddle, a minute left, and this is what Aaron Roger said, happened. David Bakhtiar actually suggested that first play. So I got to give him credit or else he'll tell me about it tomorrow. But he suggested that play and then Ty obviously ran the ball well and got out of bounce. So an offensive lineman turned to him in the huddle and said, Hey, Aaron, remember that play we ran last year in November?

Why don't you give that a run? Does that sound like how they do it in Belichickland and Brady land? He turned to an offensive lineman. who said, hey, hey, I draw it up in the dirt, but we got grass. Remember that play we ran a couple years ago? Why don't we go ahead and try that one? Wow. So Aaron Rogers' career, and I'm not saying he's without some blame,

is starting to feel a lot like Dan Marino's, where it's like 12 to 15 years of, wow, he's really good, some real regular limping at the end of it. it. And when it's all done, why didn't he end up in the Super Bowl more? He was so darn good. That's what it's starting to feel like to me. Let me shift gears to this. You know, the NBA season opens tonight. Lakers open in a couple of nights. And the NBA season's long. It is October 16th today, Joy. And the NBA finals generally wrap up around June 16th. So October, oh, that's eight months. That's eight months. And so you, you guys,

can only write about Denver's hosting the wizard so many times. You need eyeballs. So the NBA media every year or two, or every year I should say, finds a player or two that they got to create some interest. But this year, LeBron's not leaving. He's in LA for the next four years. So the big story you're seeing talked about all the time is Kevin Durant is leaving the Warriors at the end of the year. I just saw this one from a slam magazine, which is the motel six of NBA journalism. You should get a palm palm with your subscription. Kevin Durant, I'll believe it

when I see it is going to leave Golden State. Starting tonight, it's eight months of NBA basketball. It's an exhausting NBA season. We really start watching this league in May and June, and you've got

to have stories. And this will be a really interesting story. But where's Durant going to go? The Knicks, just like LeBron was going to go to New York, and Wade was going to go to New York and Chris Paul was going to go to New York and every free agent is going to go to New York. He's going to go back to D.C. is hometown?

Oh, please. The Wizards players don't even want to be in D.C. Players don't actually love playing in their hometowns. LeBron's left his twice. It's more of a headache. This whole idea that Kevin Durant is going to join the Lakers. Yes, the Lakers would love that to happen. Magic Johnson would love that to happen. I'm sure Laker fans would love that to happen.

But don't kid yourself. These NBA players may appear to get along, but they protect their legacies. And for the first 10 years that Kevin Durant and LeBron have been in this league together, LeBron's won all those years. They only met once in the finals. LeBron won, Durant lost. But let's be honest, last 10 years mostly LeBron. but the last two, Durant's won.

And for the next five and six, Durant can win all of them. Meaning the last seven, eight years of Kevin Durant's career, he may have lost the first decade of LeBron every year. He could win the last seven to eight years against LeBron. Why in the world when these players protect their legacies with every PR firm they can hire, every top agent they can hire, every shoe company to build their legacy.

Why would Kevin Durant with an opportunity in the last eight years of his career to beat LeBron, surpass LeBron, equal LeBron, help LeBron win titles? Not to mention next year, the Warriors are opening a new arena. It will be the best NBA venue ever built.

It will be Silicon Valley billion. with the best owner in the league, arguably, the best coach, the best GM, the best roster. Yeah, I think I'm going to go get involved in that Lonzo-Livar ball thing. It's not happening. Kevin Durant leaving Golden State, all believe it when I see it. Coming up, Marcellus Wiley, and the NBA opens tonight the three-word game. We are packed in the last 40 minutes. One more herd. The herd streams 24 hours a day, seven days a week within the IHeart radio app.

Search herd to listen live or on demand whenever you'd like. Welcome back. Oh, by the way, if you need money because you have credit card debt, go to Lendingclub.com slash sports. Lending club.com slash sports. They'll give you $40,000. Well, you borrow it. They don't give it to you. You borrow it.

You have to pay it back. It's called Lending Club, not Giving Club. There's a new book out October 23rd. I knew him at the old place. He is now the co-host of Speak for Yourself. His new book is called Never Shut Up. It's a remarkable story. He played in the NFL for a decade and four teams.

Now the co-host on Speak for Yourself. Let's bring in Marcellus Wiley to the studio. Marcellus Wiley is in the herd. What is up? You had an incredibly unconventional route. For people who have not heard this route, I want to get some other stuff. it's a pretty remarkable story. You grew up, I believe, in Compton.

Yes, Compton. And you had a dad that was on you, and you ended up getting an Ivy League scholarship, which is amazing for anybody. But you told me a story years ago that I thought was pretty interesting, is that you said, you know, in my neighborhood, I'll let you tell the story. Going to Columbia, I certainly didn't qualify. But you said in your neighborhood, going to Columbia was something you've always really cherished. Yes.

You can move that mic as close as you can do. Oh, perfect. A lot of people thought it was absurd to even dream and dream of leaving the neighborhood, let alone to that expectation of going to an Ivy League school. And most of my upbringing, I didn't know what the Ivy League school was. And so I'm a guy

who's being told by the neighborhood athletics is your only way out. And then athlete after athlete, more talented than myself, kept returning to the neighborhood because either A, they didn't make it, or B, They made it for a short stent and not enough to sustain them going forward. And generational wealth certainly wasn't a part of their conversation.

So I was just a guy who started to plan, formed it around identity, didn't want the world to dictate terms to me. I wanted to tell the world who I was. And the title of my book never shut up is about that essence that I think that we all possess, but we all don't tap into that potential of you may be a fork in a road kid like I was. It can go right. It can go wrong.

but through perseverance, through knowing your identity, knowing your talents, knowing who you are, more importantly, who you're not, you can make all those dreams of reality. So I started there. You have about five or six months ago,

this company came to me and they said, hey, we're thinking about getting Marcellus Wiley. They said, well, what do you think? And I said, well, he's smart. He's played, and he's a very joyful guy. I said, I listened to him on L.A. Radio, and he tells good stories.

He's very joyful. Then I read into your book, were you always that? You have an incident when you went to college and somebody ratted you out for playing Snoop and Dr. Dre at 2 in the morning. When I think of you, I think of a storyteller, joyful, happy, great family.

Were you always that guy? No, I wasn't always that guy. In the book, I talk about how I had to put the cape on, the cape of responsibility for myself and my family to really change our circumstances. I'm surrounded by drugs and guns, gangs and poverty and an intimate experience, family members as well. But the most disappointing, disheartening thing was the low ambition. Like no one was living out a career. No one was living

out a dream. Everyone just had jobs that they thought were meaningless. And I felt that at a young age. And I used my dual talents, which was success in the classroom and success on the football field to really pave a way out and to try and sustain that beyond a playing career. So I never wrapped my mind around being just a football player. So that responsibility at times brings you to some darker places, times where you don't feel like the normal 14-year-old because you have the weight of your family and the weight of your environment on your shoulders. So there were times where I really had to go to a darker place to finally feel the joy that you see every day, everyone else sees, which is really gratitude towards finally accomplishing in my dream.

You have an NBA personality and you're an NFL player. One of the things, I've said that I hate about the NFL is the franchise tag. It bothers me. Football players are trapped. Now, you moved around four times, but probably you didn't have much of a say, whereas in the NBA, players are allowed to move. I am struck by how often media members and other players criticize Durant for moving and LeBron for moving. When I say, I'd love to see Aaron Rogers move, I'd love to see him just on the market. How do you view the LeBron move to Los Angeles? would it have been better to be loyal to Akron? Where does that land for you?

Yeah, four teams, two of the teams, I was able to dictate terms in the NFL. Yeah, my first free agency, certainly, as the most valued defensive end in 2001. My next free agency going to Dallas, I was lower on the totem pole, but still highly regarded. The other two, like you said, take what you can, brother. That's the NFL mostly. That's the NFL mostly. So I don't hold anything against a Durant or LeBron. I don't buy into the perception.

I'm not dissuaded or diluted by loyalty. Ownership and players have to have a partnership. And when you don't have a partnership, especially in football, because it's a non-guaranteed sport, you're able to go wherever you want to without this tag and this negative connotation that you're not loyal. And I think a lot of fans buy into it, because the owners are not going to go to bat for the players,

and the players don't speak candidly about what they're going through, the highs and lows of that experience. So we all just sit there from the sidelines and want to put negative attributes to a player, when in reality, I never wanted to be a football player for a certain team. I wanted to be a football player expressing his talents to the world, and I would have played on any of the 32 teams. And if I'm an NBA, I would play on any of the 32.

to get my opportunity to display my talents, not get caught up in some locale conversation. October 23rd, the book, and I've already started diving into it. A lot of personal stories, never shut up. I've heard your stories before, but I think they're really important. You've talked about them on the radio in Los Angeles for years. I met you years ago at the other place, and we love having you here because you're a big personality, great story, smart dude,

and I think you're fun to work with. When, you know, I'm watching Lane Johnson, came on the show earlier. And I've been ripping him. I'm like, he has my least favorite quote. I'd rather win a Super Bowl won and have fun than win five and be miserable. And I hate that. Oh, wow. And I was like, man, that's just the opposite. So I want to ask you, if you could be miserable in New England or have a blast with the Seahawks or the Eagles, how do you see that? And think about, you know, it's interesting. I'm going to guess first. Because I look at your upbringing. And you to me have always been, you do your homework, you come in, you're a businessman. Yeah. You're a business man.

So I'm guessing you take a little misery in the titles. No, you're wrong. See, look at that. I don't know anything. Yeah, I've had this conversation a lot time. You must have been in some of the locker rooms. We used to always pose it differently. We would say, would you take money or Super Bowls? I've heard also the Super Bowl

versus Hall of Fame conversation. You'd rather be a Hall of Famer than a Super Bowl champion. I'd rather be a Hall of Famer than a Super Bowl champion. I'd rather be wealthy beyond my dreams than saying I'm a champion or multi-champion. champion. Football was the means to an end. It was a place I had to travel through, but not end my travels there. And I think that a lot of times we get caught up and thinking that you're competitive based on result. You're competitive based on process. So if I don't get the result

that I won at the end of the year, did I give it my all? Did I do my homework, like you said? Did I give everything I had to the game? Yeah. Do you live with those results? Yeah. I'm of a healthy mind and spirit. But other people are giving their all. And then when that's not enough, they go to a different place. They take a different respect from it. And I'm not going to let you on the outside who didn't see all of my pain, all of my misery, all of my trials and all of the effort. Now tell me what I accomplished, because what I accomplished was my maximum abilities being expressed on that field. Everything else is out of my hand. Did you ever have a moment in the journey from, do you ever go back home, by the way, the street? Oh, yeah.

All the time. Is your mom lived there? My mother passed away in 2005. My father, well, he's moved from there. But where I grew up, it's amazing how small that apartment was. Okay. So you've gone back to it. Yeah.

Do you get emotional? Oh, yeah. Every single time. Every single time. And it's almost scary because I'm still here on this planet, but I lived in a different world before. And that world, when you just feel like you're so close to your ceiling. And like 11 years old, like, I have to show the world that I'm better than what they think I am.

I have to show the world that I'm smart. So you knew at 11. You knew at 11. There's a bigger world and this isn't great. Yes, exactly. And it was through television, a lot of it, watching different strokes and stuff like that. Sure. Was there ever a moment in your journey?

Because I had a couple of these. I had a moment in Las Vegas, October 17th. August 17th, it was 109 degrees in Las Vegas. and I'd had a bad sale. I was three years into my career, and I wasn't doing broadcasting. I was doing sales, and I had a horrible sales moment. And I was on Sahara and the strip, and I turned the air conditioning on in my car, full blast. It was 109 the heat.

I'm sorry, I turned the heat on in my car. It was 109 degrees August 17th, and I wanted to sweat all the bad toxins out. I went home. I was in my car pouring sweat, and I said, I'm going to swore. sweat the toxins out of my body. I went and I cut up all my clothes and I said, I'm starting my life over. Okay. Your road was even more difficult than mine. Was there an epiphany a moment that Marcellus, you didn't think you'd get there? Then there was fear that I'm not getting out of here. Yeah. There were a few of those moments, but it was all around my high school times. It's going

sound funny, but when I left Pop Warner football, youth football 8 to 14, I was regarded. Like, if they had what they have now, ESPNUs, and they had all the coverage, I was like one of the top running backs, not just in my neighborhood, not just in screaming distance, probably in the country. Like, every game, four or five touchdowns, I was just taller than most and faster than all. So when you're young, if you're that talented athletically, you're going to succeed. It's just that simple. No fundamentals involved.

At 14, I'm getting recruited to go to high school after high school. I think I am the man. And then I had Oscar Slaughter's, which is something that affects your knees, makes you awkward, very painful. And I lost half of my athletic ability. Wow. I went from running back to offensive alignment as a freshman in football in high school. And I remember sitting on my living room floor time after time just saying, is this it? Is this going to happen?

Is this the reality? You're no longer that great athlete that was going to use that in combination with your actual. academics and get out the neighborhood. And it was two or three years of that dark place, ice in my knees trying to get back to where I was. Imagine when you're 14 and you think your highlights are behind you. And that's where I was for a few years, but finally everything started to kick in. I was a late bloomer and I started to grow from there. Okay, the book is called October 23rd. Yes, next week. Never shut up, Marcellus Wiley. It's great to have you on the team. Yes, appreciate you. You're a kickbutt guy. You've got amazing.

stories and good luck with Whitlock he is a handful. That's the toughest guy you've ever had to block or defend or pose. Is that why you're over here only now? That's why I just couldn't take it. I was worn out. Good seeing you man. All right, thank you. Joy with the news. No, no, no, no. Turn on the news.

This is the herd line news. All right, Colin, we spoke a lot yesterday about the fan who threw the beer on Tyreek Hill and he was banned from Gillette Stadium and now we have another update, the Foxborough Police Department, charged up fan with disorderly conduct and throwing an object at a sporting event.

And yesterday, Hill's agent Drew Rosenhaus said he was talking to the NFL and the NFLPA about their legal options. He said, quote, that type of behavior is unacceptable. Players have to be protected and we want that fan to be prosecuted. By the way, Marcellus, let me ask you here. When you jump into the crowd in Green Bay, they may push you out, but they're kind of loving. It's sort of a loving, get out of here. This is for Packers, but it's not angry and mean-spirited. We talked about this yesterday.

Did you ever hear racial slurs? Absolutely, all the time. And it was when you left the game, was it worse than when you entered? Yes, it was worse because now people had a voice. Social media was a part of the conversation. You're now a millionaire. Yeah, exactly. I mean, from the batteries been thrown to the snowballs with objects in them to the racial slurs,

all that was part for the course. But now with social media, all those things are recorded and caught on tape. That's a big part of it. Well, like I said earlier, you're going to learn today. Yep. Eat that beer to yourself. I mean, honestly, who throws a $12 beer on someone anyway? Every time I see that, the first thing I think of this.

I mean, is that entitlement or what? Who are their parents? Who are their parents? Whoever that is has never had hands on them before. Guaranteed. So John Mara had a clear message for Odell Beckham Jr. At the fall owner's meeting this morning, he had a lot to say, actually,

when he was asked about Odell's comments that he made to ESPN, Mara said, I wish he would create headlines by his play on the field as opposed to what he says and does off the field. I think he needs to do a little more playing and a little less talking. Mara also said he's embarrassed about the Giants 1 in 5 start. He said, quote, it's pretty disappointing.

I'm sick about it. And he also got a little sensitive when Eli was brought up. He said, I don't know what you mean by going all in with Eli. He's been our quarterback. He was still under contract. I know he's the punching bag right now, but a lot of guys need to play better right now. It's not just him.

They are, the irony in all of this, Joy, is for the last two decades, the giants have been rock solid and stable and the jets were the circus. Now it's totally flipped. Like the jets have quiet Sam Darnold and reserved Todd Bowles and they appear to be not a lot of stars

and organized and you don't hear them in the press and the giants are a circus. Like it's incredible to watch the blue bloods, the giants, they're like this, you know, this great legendary family of Uber wealth just completely unraveling. And the Jets, who've always been the little brother, look like a grown-up organization.

You know what it feels like with the Giants? They don't really have an identity right now. Because Eli has always been Eli. His personality is not outgoing. He's not a strong talker. He's funny. He does the commercials and stuff. And he's Eli.

Like, we know who Eli is. But as far as on the field, what is their identity? And then you have Odell. Like, you knew what Odell was before you paid him. Yeah. And Odell's not wrong. What he's saying isn't a lie. Of course he's going to come out and say that. And I really feel like he's already said it in the locker room.

They don't really have an identity right now. Finally, the Dodgers face the Brewers tonight in game four of the NLCS on FS1. That's at 830 Eastern 530 Pacific. Could be considered a must one for L.A. They're down to one already. And while they're the by far the best power lineup in baseball, they haven't really shown it in this series. Dave Roberts is doing, it's a lot of chess match stuff.

Dave Roberts has used virtually everybody off the bench. Craig counsel for the Brewers is very much a bullpen to hitter chess match guy. Actually, the Dodgers are using a backup catcher today. So it's very much a chess match between the two. All the games, the tying or winning runs been on base in the ninth inning of all the games. Mani Machado, though, is the only Dodger that's hitting. And Josh Hader is virtually unhittable. If it gets to the eighth in the Brewers lead, good luck. But it's very much a chess match with Dave Roberts and Craig Counsel, the manager for the brew. Yeah, and they're starting Rich Hill, their fourth starter and the brewers are starting to

levy, junk guy, veteran guy, been around a long time. That's tonight, NLCS on FS1 at 830 Eastern 530 Pacific. Joy Taylor with the news. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by. The herd lie news. I don't think this is controversial.

Many people think I'm critical of Russell Westbrook, but every time I talk about him, I offer stats. He will not play tonight. He is out with a knee injury as the thunder open up against the Warriors. He underwent arthroscopic knee surgery in September and missed the entire preseason. I think this is noteworthy because here is my theory having watched the NBA for a long, long time. Iverson, war down by 31.

Stevie Francis, done by age 30. Derek Rose, pretty much exhausted by 28. Steph Marbury, declining by 27, done by 31. Barron Davis, done by 28, Penny Hardaway, done by 29. What do those guards all have in common? Hyper athletic point guards who don't shoot particularly well and have to drive to the basket regularly to score. Collisions, wear and tear on body, hit the floor,

super athletic point guards, and I've seen Rose and Penny Hardaway and Baron Davis and Marbury. and Iverson and Stevie Francis. They get to about 10 years in, and they start to wear down. The two guys in the league, John Wall and Westbrook, not elite shooters, have to drive to the iron to score and end up in collisions and end up banging around with bigger bodies. This is now the third time they've scoped or had surgery on a Westbrook knee.

You'll watch the NBA for a long time. you see trends. If you don't shoot well as a premier guard and you're hyper-athletic, you drive to the basket and score, and it just shortens your career. When you're dunking, it's great, and when you're scoring, it's fun, and it's utterly fascinating. But it wears these guys down. Never forget that call from Kevin Harland a couple of years ago in the playoffs for Westbrook. Westwood.

Got the screen, the switch on D. It's a three-over heartin, and it's no good. He is one of nine shooting in the fourth. Again, he's got it. Again, he'll challenge. This time a two. Another mess. He's tired.

He's got nothing in the tank. Nothing. Nothing. He's played 40 excruciating heavily leaned on minutes. Nothing in the tank. It was the first round of the NBA playoffs, the fifth game, and he had nothing in the tank. Play well with others, learn to shoot better, the hyper-athletic point guard who has to drive

to score those careers end quickly. Westbrook is out tonight. I don't think that was controversial. I think it was a fact-based commentary. That's how I saw it. You could also say that he plays really hard because he's the best player on the team, and that's why he was gas. He will win from this point forward fastest on the floor before MVP final on the floor.

That's all I'm saying. Coming up next, I'll predict LeBron's season in three words. It's the three-word NBA game season opens tonight and best for last around the corner. All right, well, let's not waste any time. Best for last. After almost three hours, Colin apparently hasn't gotten to the point yet. Quit holding out on us, cowherd. It's the best.

for last. So Joy, this is your first rendition of this. We've done some football together. We move into the NBA season. Every year, I believe NBA teams are very easy to sum up. You have five starters, a couple of bench guys and a coach. It's not a massive roster. You don't have a lot of, you know, pitching changes in bullpens and special teams. I think you go into seasons. It's the easiest sport to predict because you either have the coach and have the stars or you don't. Your bench isn't going to catapult you from nine wins to 30. So here we go in the herd, the annual three-word NBA game. I'll take your team and describe it in just three words.

Let's start with the Oklahoma City Thunder. OKC. How about OK knee? Russell Westbrook, out for the opener. Third time they've gone to work on that knee. Okay, neat. Washington Wizards. Hit a wall.

John Wall and Bradley Beal never won a title, never will. Never won the East, never will. The East is better. Their window closed. San Antonio Spurs. Where'd everybody go? Genoblee, Parker, Duncan, Kauai. This is a borderline seven or eight seed in the West.

Dallas Mavericks Dirk No Winsky I know they love him I know they're loyal Come on now Let's get more good players Let's move past nostalgia

Minnesota Timberwolves Just ask Woj That's a little esoteric NBA thing That's a mess We'll have one of our guys break the story Phoenix Suns Phoenix Rising Slowly, I kind of like their young players.

Devin Booker and a couple of young players. I think Phoenix makes a little push this year. Playoff push, I don't know. Little young, but I think they're starting to turn it around. Portland Trailblazers. Hey, pot's legal. They have two players who play the exact same way. C.J. McCollum, Damien Lillard.

Trade one of them. Get a three. Get a wing. Utah, Jay. Just Quinn, baby. I think after Boston, Quinn Snyder may be the best coach in the NBA. Grayson Allen lads adds a little fire to him. I like what I see from Utah.

Just Quinn, baby. Denver Nuggets. Can't name anybody. Everybody in the NBA keeps telling me how good they are. I don't ever remember a team winning like 60 or 58 where I couldn't name anybody. I mean, I can name people, but you can't mostly outside of Denver name. anybody. Memphis Grizzlies. They still exist. They haven't been disbanded yet. Are they still bad on offense, good on defense? New Orleans Pelicans. Bye-bye brow. Anthony Davis signed

with clutch sports. My guess is he's not long for New Orleans. Brooklyn Nets, Jay-Z's worst investment. Bad, hopeless. mess. Toronto Raptors Kauai Leonard's layover. Even he thinks that's funny. I think he's there one year and he's moving back to the states. Philadelphia 76ers.

Have we done processing yet? Markell Fultz is going to start. So he was in the Witness Protection Program for a year, so that'll be nice. Finally get him. New York Knicks. Durant's not coming. Can we stop thinking the Knicks are going to land free agents? They're not.

Atlanta Hawks, Young and the Winless. Miami Heat. Way to go. DeWain's last year. Charlotte Hornets. The Crying Jordans. Detroit Pistons. Griffin.

I'm out. That was a bad contract. Blake Griffin, that was a bad deal. Stan Van Gundy's gone. They're a mess. Orlando Magic. Mickey Mouse Organization. Come on.

One time in six years. They've won 30 games. Milwaukee Bucks. It's hunting season. This team, top three or four seed, a chance to win the East. They're going to win a playoff series or two.

Chicago Bulls. Remember the 90s? Cleveland. Cavaliers. We've got Baker. It's going to be a bad year. It's going to be like 22 wins for them. Indiana Pacers.

Indianapolis 500 team. It was a nice first round series against LeBron. Look at the roster. Look at the east. It's a 500 team. L.A. Clippers. R.I.P. Lobb City. L.A. Lakers.

I can't wait. Sacramento Kings, I don't care. Houston Rockets Harden and soften. They're not as good defensively. I think they'll pay a price in June or May because of that. Golden State Warriors,

teamwork makes dream work. And the Boston Celtics 2019 NBA champs. You're all in on that, huh? I am. You're not all in on that. I think it will depend on if they are healthy at the end of the year. I know that's very boring, but I think it's going to be the Warriors and the Celtics, and if the Celtics don't have all the pieces that they need to beat the Warriors,

and they can get there. I can't wait to watch Boston this year. They cannot be exciting. Cannot wait to watch. I want to watch the Lakers. I want to watch Utah. I want to watch Philly and I want to watch the Celtics. By the way, I was thinking about this watching the game last night.

Kyle Shanahan and C.J. Bethard were almost equal to Mike McCarthy and Aaron Roger. Look at some of these stats last night. Yards per play. Dead even. Yards per pass. Edge Niners. Possession. Almost dead even.

Is that coaching is so important in football. analytics in baseball have made a manager essentially a messenger. I mean, a lot of the times, you're just, you're taking what the front office wants you to do. They fax it down and you put in the batting order. But in football, it's not only that coaching matters, but it matters overnight. Chicago, Matt Nagy, appears to have saved Mitch Tribesky's career. Sean McVeigh immediately appears to have saved Jared Gough's career. Adam Gase made Brock Osweiler look special against the Bears

and Ryan Tannehill's career was in peril. A defensive head coach in the NFL, general managers have to be watching. And I mean, our defensive coach is becoming VCR repairman 25 years ago. Because I'm watching that thing last night. Kyle Shanahan takes C.J. Bethard, I mean, a good solid backup quarterback,

in the Green Bay against Darren Rogers. They went toe to toe. They went toe to toe. And I'm watching, they got a rebuilding offensive line. They have second tier running back talent. They have a good deep threat, Marquis good one. But I mean, I'm watching, when you look at this Kyle Shanahan, and you look at Sean McVeigh, and you look at Doug Peterson,

and you look at Josh McDaniels with the Patriots, and Sean Peyton and Andy Reid, I mean, they are, they're Uber and these defense. Offensive coaches feel like taxi. It's just incredible last night. I was so blown away by San Francisco. My takeaway in that game last night, I was watching it, and I was thinking to myself,

I am so excited to watch the Niners next year, seven more draft picks, seven or eight more, you know, trades or free agents, and Jimmy Garoppolo. Like, I'm, you know, in baseball, if you're bad, you've got to get draft pick after draft pick after draft pick. You know, in the NBA, if you're bad, you've got to find cross your fingers two to three stars. But you know, in football, man, if you get the right offensive coach right now and you get the right quarterback young talent, I mean, it happens in a year.

Look at Tom Herman in college football at Texas. Like, they're top 10 right now. And you're like, it's like, wow, wow. So that's one of the things I really love about the NFL. It's the league. I've always said it's the League of Hope. Is that, listen, man, if you're in Memphis, you just don't have the players.

You're going to have to hit two home runs. You're going to have to find a Clay Thompson and a staff in the next two drafts and then convince a guy to come to Memphis. You know, NBA can sometimes, you know, you feel hopeless. Baseball, it takes years to go from bad Houston and the good Houston. Rams, bears, Niners. You get the right coach and the right quarterback prospect, man. I'm watching San Francisco.

That team, if Garapolo, can stay upright, could win 12 games, and be a Super Bowl contender absolutely next year. That's incredibly exciting. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo, and every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the biggest moments in sports and giving you the real story behind the headline.

And we're going straight to the source, the athletes themselves. their locker room stories, their reactions in the moment, and the stuff nobody gets to hear. Listen to SportsSlice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy,

not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smigel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform?

We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, what's good, y'all? You're listening to Learn the Hard Way with your favorite therapist and host Kear Games. This space is about black men's experiences, having honest conversations that it's really not safe to have anywhere, but you're having them with a licensed professional who knows what he's

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