The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Aaron Rodgers, Antonio Brown, Virginia, and the Cowboys

Episode Date: April 9, 2019

Colin breaks down Green Bay Packers QB Aaron Rodgers' rebuttal, the continued drama surrounding Oakland Raiders WR Antonio Brown, Virginia's win over Texas Tech, and why he feels Dallas Cowboys QB Dak Prescott will get his money. Guests include Michael Lewis, Aaron Torres, Chris Hayes, and Greg Jennings.  Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo, and every episode, we're cutting through the noise,

breaking down the biggest moments in sports and giving you the real story behind the headlines. And we're going straight to the source, the athletes themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions in the moment, and the stuff nobody gets to hear. Listen to Sports Slice on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok.

Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smigel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter.

Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Life is full of hurdles. So how do you keep going? On Hurtle with Emily Abadi, we're talking with the most inspiring women in sports and wellness from professional athletes, coaches, and Olympic champions, about the challenges that shape them and the mindset that keeps them moving forward. At our level, at this scale, being able to fail in front of the entire world.

can do anything. I can do anything. Listen to Hurtle with Emily Abadi on the IHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHart women's sports. What's up, guys? This is Clever Taylor the 4th. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker, this linebacker walks up to me, he goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Quarterback on office blue with 42. Hey, Rhett, my mama want you to weigh better.

What? Where's she at? Hey, Miss Parker. Listen to the Cliverts show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Thanks for listening to The Heard Podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday. From 12 to 3 Eastern, 9 to noon Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and FS1, find your local station for The Hurt at Fox Sports Radio.com or stream us live every day on the IHeartRadio app by searching

Herd. Now let's get this party started. You're listening to Fox Sports Radio. Ah, here we go, loaded on a Tuesday live in Los Angeles. This is The Hard, wherever you may be in, however you may be listening. Iheart Radio, Fox Sports Radio, and FS1. Joy Taylor is joining me on a fantastic day today. There's all sorts of stuff swimming around out there.

Joy, how are you? Great, great game last night. Great game last night. We'll talk about that in a couple of minutes. Great game, great tournament. Totally into it. Thought it was a blast. Totally over-delivered, by the way.

I thought we were going to get a yawn fest. I sat there for two hours, a whole family watching. Let me start with this, though. Oh, wow. Aaron Rogers hit back yesterday. All right, let me just tell you what happened. A couple days ago, somebody wrote a story, Tyler Dunn, and it was not very complimentary

of Aaron Rogers or Mike McCarthy. It detailed the mess last year and the mess for the last several years. A lot of things I'd heard before. In fact, I said about the Aaron Rogers stuff. Nothing was really new outside of one or two things. Well, Aaron came out yesterday. Guns ablazing, all fired up, and he punched back. And here's a little taste of Aaron Rogers firing back in that negative article.

The thing is about this article, you know, it's not a mystery. This was a smear attack by, you know, a writer looking to advance his career, talking with mostly irrelevant, bitter players who all have an agenda, whether they're advancing their own careers or just trying to stir old stuff up. And then what happens is the same tired media folks picking it up and talking about it. This just emphasizes their opinion about me already. The crazy thing is there's super slanted opinions in that piece stated as fact. and then there's quote unquote facts, which are just outright lies.

Oh, my God. The NFL's most openly liberal California progressive quarterback went Donald Trump, bitter, smear campaign. Out to get me. He went red hat. Aaron put it on and called everybody bitter and useless and liars and smear attack. and out to get me. How ironic yesterday was for Aaron. If you just wrote those words down, they're very Trumpian.

I do not believe everybody just makes stuff up about Aaron, and they're just out to get him. I don't believe that. I don't read stories like this about Matt Ryan or Philip Rivers or Andrew Locke or Tom Brady. I'm not saying he's the only quarterback to ever be criticized, but, oh, God, this felt so Trumpian. And by the way, it's a very good strategy. He even did, and this is what the Donald does,

he goes to the favorable media. Fox News, who sort of takes care of him and sees his world. Well, where did Aaron go? Not to a Peter King. Over to Milwaukee Radio, who just lobs up softball so Aaron can hit him out of the park. And, oh, by the way, in both cases, it works. There is so much distrust in the media. I read the surveys.

But it works. It galvanizes your base. Trump's approval rating this morning is 53%. the Mueller report doesn't land like the Democrats. Liberals wanted it to, and boom, more power than ever. And this morning in Green Bay and that community and everybody's rousing around him and the Green Bay media saying, those national guys don't know what they're talking about and the Green Bay fans and the cheeseheads.

And Aaron played to his base. It's actually brilliant. He borrowed a page from our current president. Who, by the way, I wouldn't vote for, but I don't have a problem that many of you do. it's America. Our republic's built for that. My biggest concern's always been the erosion of the trust in the media, not the people who the media criticizes, but in this case, it was absolutely you can see where it's coming from. Aaron Rogers is now 35, increasingly brittle, his division and his conference is better. They are not as good as talented as the Bears. The roster isn't

as good as the Vikings, and Aaron's now looking at 34, 35 years old right in the face. He had a locker room he had to seize. He's got a new coach that nobody knows and nobody's quite sure they trust. And Aaron had to get that locker room back. And he did it. And he galvanized his base and he went to local media and put on a red hat and everybody's out

to get him and it's fake and they're bitter and it's just some media guy trying to elevate his career. Oh boy. Okay. By the way, he also did. This is a great tactic. This is a tactic I've seen recently from the White House, which is throw something else.

that throw something out there that kind of sounds right until you actually go beneath the surface. Here's something else, Aaron said. If I really dislike Mike that much, why would I resign? Knowing if I play well and we do what we do around here,

we made a play out for years, then I got hurt, we missed the place. It's going to be me and Mike my entire career. So if I really disliked them that much, you think I'd resign? Is the money that important to me? I'll tell you, it's not. Quality life is important.

Court. Oh, God, that sounds so right on the surface. Yeah! Except for in the NFL, quarterbacks are trapped. They had a franchise tag you for multiple years. You couldn't have gotten out if you wanted to get out. All you have to do is take a little shovel and dig a little deeper on that quote. And that, my friends, is fake news. Listen, if you want to believe this morning that everybody is just out to get Aaron, the Gunslinger book, multiple sources saying things, they're all just out to get him. Jeff Pearlman, the writer's out to get him. Tyler Dunn's out to get him. Jeff Saturday, one of the nicest guys I've ever met who played with him. Out to get him.

Craig Knoll, the backup for Favre who heard stuff. Out to get it. Go for it. I don't do a show trying to convince you how to feel. I do a show telling you how I feel. It can land how it wants to land. But yesterday was playing to your base, galvanizing it, saying the kind of things that rallies them,

around you. I just thought it was incredibly ironic that the NFL's most openly progressive, politically liberal quarterback donned a red hat. Do better, Aaron. Let's shift to this. Great game last night. I thought it was going to be boring. Ratings are out. You loved it. I mean, didn't love it, but you liked it a lot. Congratulations to both teams, especially Virginia. What a crazy tournament. You talk about dead and unraveled themselves and unpacked losses and turned them into wins. College basketball doesn't have the stars it used to. For those of you in your 20s, here's how the way it used to work.

Zion Williamson would come back not only as a sophomore, but as a junior and probably a senior. No, I'm not joking. That's the way it used to work. Stars came back for three and four years. There was a time when college basketball felt every bit as big as the NBA pre-magic, pre-burden. pre-Michael. It's not anymore. What college basketball feels like is that restaurant you've been going to for 30 years and the food's not nearly as good as it used to be, but it's comfortable. It's by your house. They've got good margaritas. There's a couple waiters or waitresses you really like,

and it makes you happy. And the food's not as good as it used to be. The good chef left years ago and opened up his own restaurant. But it does make you feel good. And you know the people in that restaurant care. And when you juxtapose the apathy of NBA stars sitting out for load management and you put it up against the, albeit significantly less talented college guys who are dying for every possession, it feels good. It feels like it matters. College basketball is overwhelmingly now, just a three-week sport. But for three weeks, it gives you something in March and early April that the NBA does not during that stretch. Passion, intensity. They really care.

Do or die. Go to the replay. Can end a season. And the way Virginia last year was knocked out as a number one seat in the first round and then came back to win it this year is what sports is all about. Absolute redemption. College basketball used to be much bigger. The season was much more discussed.

But it still matters. It still matters in towns like Spokane and Charlottesville and Ann Arbor. it matters a lot. Lubbock, Texas, lost last night, but they feel better about themselves. And that's a real thing. Not everybody can be the NFL, not everybody can be Kevin Durant,

not everybody can be the New England Patriots, not everybody can be the Warriors. But in middle-sized towns to small towns all over America, you care and we care. And those guys last night did. and that was awesome. Congrats to UVA. Coming up next, I showed incredible restraint yesterday.

I have to admit, it wasn't until joy slipped it into the show halfway through that we even brought up, discussed that Russell Westbrook was voted on by the players as the most overrated player. I am going to just briefly slip it into the show and then jettison the topic very quickly because I'm a responsible small J journalist. But it's not going to be just about Westbrook. It's about a player we're comparing to Westbrook, and it's completely unfair.

That's coming up. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1, and the IHeart Radio app. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in.

I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise. Breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athletes themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs,

the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants. answer. Sports Slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to SportsSlice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slic Life 12 and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok.

Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking. Trip Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it.

And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross. Because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth. Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely.

And that's two different. different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, is we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hardway. Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. Jacob Kingston grew up in an isolated polygamous sect. We were God's chosen kingdom on earth. He felt destined for greatness. So when a swaggering Armenian businessman, catapults Jacob into an extraordinary world,

he doesn't look back. Ferraris and Lamborghinis, private jets, meeting the president of Turkey. I'm Michelle McPhee, and this is one of the most shocking criminal conspiracies I've ever come across. When Jacob met Levant this plant to a billion dollar fraud. But with two kings from entirely different worlds,

just how long can their empire survive? The largest tax investigation in American history. You need to tell me what you know. Is somebody coming after me? Jacob told Levan, you're ruining my life. Listen to Kingdom of Fraud on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Life throws hurdles big and small. The question is, how do you conquer them?

On Hurtle with Emily Abadi, we sit down with the most inspiring women in sports and wellness, professional athletes, coaches, and Olympic champions to talk about the challenges that shaped them and the mindset that keeps them going. From the WNBA standout Kate Martin and rising hockey star Layla Edwards. If a boy can do it, I don't see why a girl can't. Like, I've never understood that. Like, it didn't make sense in my brain. It's hard to be in spaces that no one looks like you,

but don't ever feel like you don't belong. Don't let that be the reason you don't do it. An Olympic champs, Gabby Thomas, and Katie Ladeki. The ability to show a gold medal to someone and have their face light up and smile, that means the world to me. And that's what motivates me to, win more gold medals.

At our level, at this scale, like being able to fail in front of the entire world. Like, I can do anything. I can do anything. Because resilience isn't just about winning. It's about showing up, even when it's hard. Listen to Hurtle with Emily Abadi on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHart Women's Sports. By the way, Aaron Rogers, because it easily won that press conference yesterday, gone to a real

guy like Peter King, a big time guy, and said, listen, I got to own some of my crap. I'm not the easiest guy to play with. I didn't like the article. I wish people would stop bringing up stuff that's 10 years old, but I got to own some of this stuff. You know, instead of projecting yesterday, projecting, pointing fingers, everybody's out to get me. That never plays well. Just come out and just say, listen, man, I'm driven. I can sometimes be arrogant. I take a lot of hits on this. I feel as bad about the Mike McCarthy thing as Mike feels. I, I take. I take some responsibility, not all but some. And everybody would be like, yeah, instead, finger, project, finger, project, their fault,

their fault, bitter, X. Ay, yoy, tedious. Okay, so four years is a long time in sports. And yesterday there was an NBA player poll on The Athletic. You should subscribe. There is excellent journalism there. And they pulled the players, like 25, 30 of the players, percent of the players. And they got a bunch of great questions out of them, best player, overrated underwear,

all this stuff. And who was the most overrated? player. Now, it would be very easy for me to bring the old hammer out because Russell Westbrook was voted the most overrated player. Yeah, told you so, told you so. But it's not really where I'm going to go with this. Where I'm going with this is also right beneath him was James Hardin, tied for third. Okay, time out. Four years ago, I think it's fair to say that Hardin and Westbrook were often kind of bunch together. Terrific offensive players. Defense was more of a hobby. I did it occasionally when they felt like it. They weren't the easiest guys to play with. I think that was fair four

years ago. And are these guys kind of into stats? These were all similarities between the two. But they are no longer similar players. Westbrook has kind of a relentless crazy side. Hardin, we've discovered, is almost a level below chill. Their personalities aren't the same. Westbrook has deteriorated as a shooter. Hardin has never been more lethal. Westbrook's style and body is not conducive to longevity. Hardin looks like he could play forever. Westbrook, I'm not, I don't think he's the MVP of his own team. I think you could argue Hardens the MVP of the entire league. Westbrook, due to surgeries, is clearly on the back nine. Hardin looks like he's right smack dab in the middle of his prime. Westbrook has often let down teammates.

Hardin, actually last year, was let down by a teammate who got hurt. These are not the same players. I was not a huge fan of James Hardin when he came into this league. I have become a fan. Now, I don't think he's as good as Kobe, what the analytic people say. Kobe's more athletic and was the greatest tough shot maker of my entire basketball life. But James Hardin's the best one-on-one player in the league. He has smartly been able to work with Chris Paul, who's got at times the opposite game, and yet they work well together. And I thought they would, and I predicted they would, because Chris Paul and Hardin are smart guys, and I'm a big believer in business, hire smart people. They'll figure out how to make things work.

Westbrook has largely unraveled in recent years, deteriorated. Still a great talent, but sometimes just too rigid and relentless. That is not Hardin. Hardin has blown me away in the last couple of years. His game is elevated. He'll play forever. He's in the middle of his prime. He's the most unstoppable offensive force in the league.

I would never want to face him. I'm not sure like Kobe in his prime. you can actually stop him. And I like his personality. Works well with others. Actually trying to play a little better defense. He's not great, never will be. But he's not as awful regularly as he used to be.

And I think because of James Hardin and his ability to work with Chris Paul, I think they have a chance to make things very, very uncomfortable for the Golden State Warriors. Maybe not beat him, maybe beat him. But they'll make it uncomfortable because Hardin has a lot. grown as a player, not deteriorated. Joy with the news. No, no, no, no, no. Turn on the news.

This is the herd line news. All right, so we've heard some rumors about the top players turning down the bronze offers to join him in Space Jam, too. Is that real or fake news? Well, it's not fake news for at least one player. What? Yonis, he has went on the record that he declined an offer. He told ESPN's Malika Andrews.

I don't like being Hollywood. I don't like all this extra drama. I just want to win. All that other stuff takes away from the game. And you just spend extra energy on looking good for five seconds. I don't care about that. I just want to look good on the court, get the win, and go back home and lay on my couch and watch game film. That's it.

I kind of love that about him. I really do love that about it. It's very Brady-esque. Although I would not say that Tom Brady is in Hollywood. You know, Tom's got a little Hollywood in him. Sure. Yeah, yeah, for sure. That's without question.

He definitely has Hollywood in him. But this is on the record. that he is not interested in that stuff. You know, one of the things that I have seen, and I think the media can be guilty of instilling fear, and I've said this before, you listen to the left, they make you think the world's ending, you listen to the right, they make the world's ending. I'm squarely in the middle. There is this sort of narrative out there that everybody in the NBA just wants to go to New York

and go to Laleigh and no, Damien Lillard doesn't want to leave Portland, and Yannis doesn't want to leave Milwaukee, and those spurs mostly outside of Kauai didn't want to leave San Antonio, and I never see Hardin leaving Houston. Janus is actually in the majority that most players want to sign with a team, win a bunch of games, take the most money, be able to raise their kids in one community. And I got nothing against the guys like LeBron and Durant that move. I don't. I'm a mobile guy myself.

But I know a lot of sportscasters in my business who have always lived in one city, and they are, you and I are different. But they're really happy living in Miami. 100%. So let's, Janus is actually the NBA. Well, and also, I would say that everything doesn't work for everyone. That's right. Those people that you were talking about who stay in one place or these players who feel comfortable being with one organization their entire career and don't want to move around.

That may not work for their particular brand or the type of player that they are. Like, LeBron could not stay in Cleveland. Right. Janus does not have the pressure to win that LeBron had. coming into the league. So to say that it's that it's fair, like LeBron should have should have taken the path that Yonis is taking. Yonis doesn't have

the chosen one tattooed on his back. He wasn't given the league coming right out of high school. And also broadcasting his high school games, people buying season tickets. It's not the same thing. So everybody can't be put into the same box. Yeah. And also, I think Yonis got the right coach early in his career.

I think he's got, you know, it takes players. You know, Michael's first coach. He had, I think, Stan Allback. Then he had Doug Collins. Okay, then he got Phil. You generally don't come into the league in by a year like five. You got the right coach. It looks like Janice has the right coach.

It looks like the front office is pretty good at finding talent. He's in a good situation. He's in a situation. I always said this. LeBron had to leave. If you're Kobe and you end up, Magic Johnson came into this league and Kareem was his center. Very quickly he got Pat Riley as a coach. It's like, you don't really have to leave when that's how things work out.

No, and Katie was in a similar situation. Like, you have pressures, you have how you come into the league, it matters. But I do respect Yonnes for saying that this is not who I am and I'm going to stick with what makes me happy. So there is, speaking of Kevin Durant, a lot of speculation about where he's going to play next season. And much like this time last year when we speculated about LeBron's potential move. Well, now Frank Isola thinks that Katie could learn a lot about LeBron's move to L.A. He said LeBron's first season in Los Angeles was a disaster. doesn't mean he can't salvage the last three years of the Lakers,

but year one was, and as the saying goes, a dumpster fire. If Durant is smart, he will consider the fallout from LeBron's move before making the most important decision of his career in three months. Thank you. Thank you. No, Frank Isle is a New York guy, so he's been around the Knicks quite a bit. Frank knows what he's doing. Look, I am not going to disguise this situation as an easy move.

I have not forgotten the dysfunction that the New York Knicks have been mostly. and the ownership, but I do think that they have made an effort, at least to go in the right direction. They have a solid coach and a solid front office, a front office, which, by the way, has a relationship with Kevin Durant. If you are also getting Kyrie,

that's an incredible amount of talent. And I don't know. I just think that the allure of the New York Knicks and the garden and the mecca basketball is a lot. And like you said, Katie has a different, has different motivations. I know that the Golden State Warriors have a great setup,

and he might win four or five championships there, but that might not be what makes them happy. And it would be great for the league. Oh, no, that, that, you're not going to, yeah. Hey, listen, if Zion, Kevin Durant, forget Kyrie. If just Kevin Durant went and Zion went, you've got to watch Nick games.

I mean, you don't have a choice. I have to go home every night and watch a Nick game. I mean, is that a bad thing? No, no, no, no. Listen, you and I disagree in a lot of this whole thing. That one? There's no question that Adam Silver is literally with rosary beads at night going, Kevin go to New York, Zion go to the net.

You know, you're never going to announce that. David Stern used to say, I have 31 owners and I have to make all of them happy. Yeah, but it did help David. The Lakers were mostly great during your tenure. It did not hurt. It's big brands, big cities. And finally, even with many of the top college basketball players undecided if they'll turn pro, we can start looking ahead to next year's national title odds.

And shocker, Virginia, is favored to repeat five to one. Duke 8 to 1, followed by Kentucky, 8 to 1, Gonzaga, 10 to 1, Michigan State at 12 to 1. So, DeAndre Hunter is expected to enter the draft. He's projected as a top 5 pick, and Ty Jerome is also shown as a late first round pick. And that doesn't mean that more players besides Hunter and Jerome will choose to leave early, but there is a core group of guys that is likely coming back. You know what I like? College football right now has gotten very Clemson, Alabama heavy. In college basketball, the one and done does not necessarily, when you're not.

titles. Now, it wins you games and it makes you interesting. Right. But it's hard to take 19-year-old kids, build chemistry in five months and win. College basketball right now, we've got about 10 programs. I think Texas Tech of Chris Beard's days is going to remain really viable. We've got about 10 teams every year. Maybe 12 that have a real shot here. I think we're starting to get a pretty good sample size of what works for college basketball in this tournament. And the experience in playing together, upperclassmen is showing the result. There's no question that one and done makes you interesting and you're going to win a bunch of games.

But let me tell you something. When you get round two, three, four in this tournament, I'll take a lot of juniors. Like, experience matters a lot in this. And by the way, in the NBA playoffs, Joy, veterans generally win. Like the Ray Allen's who have been in like nine playoff runs are in, you can't put a. You can't put a price tag, I guess. On a Ray Allen or a baddie a in a playoff run. No, it matters.

and it's showing in the tournament especially. So Virginia's favorite to repeat, and obviously they had an incredible run and coming back from losing in the first round last year. But they have a core group coming back as to do a lot of these guys. Good stuff. Joy with the news. Well, that's the news.

And thanks for stopping by. The herd line news. By the way, according to Frank Isola, does he write for the athletic too? Let me see this. Frank's everywhere. He's smart dude. some agents believe Durant and Kyrie Irving pairing for the Knicks is inevitable.

Let me just, I just want to go on a little bit of a rant here for three or four minutes. I lived next to New York for 10 years in Connecticut. I'm really glad I did. New York's amazing. But I went there often. The best part was my company usually paid for it. It's really expensive. But I love New Yorkers and I love the authenticity and I love the city.

Now, I mostly went to Manhattan, which there are five. boroughs and there's, you know, there's Bronx and there's Brooklyn, there's Staten Island, there's, you know, Harlem, there's everything. I mostly just went to the island. I went to Manhattan, right? And there's a lot of restaurants and a lot of energy, there's a lot of fries. So I didn't really experience the whole New York. I got all the, you know, the glitz and the glamour in New York, but I loved it.

I absolutely loved it. But I never wanted to move there, ever. I had kids. I like space. I like a yard. I like a wiffleball park next to my house. this idea that winning in New York is just better timeout. So when Shaq and Kobe and Phil Jackson were crushing it in Los Angeles,

they would all drive home at night saying, God, if we only lived in Queens and could play for the Knicks, I don't believe that. When the big three were down in Miami, aqua water, winter league, I don't think they were thinking, gosh, if we could only have a cool pat in Brooklyn and me playing in the garden. I don't think the Philadelphia Eagles, for a second, wanted to be in any city but Philadelphia when they won. And I don't think the Red Sox or the Patriots ever consider New York a better place to win.

They don't. They don't. I like New York a lot. The people, it's history, the architecture, the energy. There is nothing better than a couple of nights in New York. in the fall, 70 degrees, sunset, with your girl, feel like the most important person in the world. But New York is actually one of the fastest shrinking states. Weather, taxes, density, whateves, and it's not more special. People in Charlottesville this morning don't feel like they got

job because they don't live in New York. New York's great for born-and-bred New Yorkers, for a night, a weekend for the energy. But this idea that winning in Silicon Valley in a new arena next year will somehow be less cool than winning some games but not a title in Madison Square Garden is just a bunch of hooey. Don't get me wrong. New York does feel big. And I understand the Knicks have the number one or two valuation in the league.

But the Mets also have a top six or seven valuation in baseball. because you know it's New York. And New York has 15 million people. In fact, I could be wrong on this, but I think the biggest city in the country is New York. Second biggest city is L.A. Third biggest? I think I'm right on this. I think it's like Brooklyn.

I think one of the boroughs is even bigger than Chicago. But fact, the New York Knicks have won one playoff series this century. Fact. They have the lowest winning percentage to the Knicks. this century. Okay, we just saw an aging NBA star in LeBron James join a dysfunctional but legendary brand. It remained dysfunctional despite the aging star. And I understand New Yorkers have pride.

So to people in Odessa and so to people in Minneapolis. But I got to be honest with you. Winning in Miami is really cool, especially since there's no state tax and I get to keep more of my money. and the water is aqua, and I live right on it, and I have a boat, and the league's in the winter, and it's 72 degrees every day. And I also don't buy into this belief. It's just sort of the way a lot of people think that difficult is better. You know what?

It's just better to have to dig a ditch for 12 miles to get that paycheck. No, I'd rather walk a mile and get mine. I don't want to dig a ditch. Winning in New York is hard. The media is hard. There's a lot of it. It's intense. There's a lot of drama.

then James Dolan is not an elite owner. I'm sorry. The front office could be good, and David Fisdale is certainly an upgrade, but it's going to be harder in New York because you're not going to have Steve Kerr and Steph Curry and Clay Thompson and that culture, which is smart and thoughtful

and frankly protective. But Colin, he would go there by himself. No, he wouldn't. I'm reading all the stories. He would go with Kyrie Irving. This idea he would just go to New York. He'd put a backpack on like a college kid going to Amsterdam by himself. I'm just going to go see the countryside.

That's not at all what I'm reading. People like Frank Isola who know their stuff and are not fake news are reporting that Kyrie and Kevin would go together, by the way, just adding pressure that you better win now because you have a second star. And winning in New York is great. But winning in Boston's great. And winning in L.A. is great. Dallas and Atlanta in Minneapolis and Ann Arbor and Austin. It's all great. Losing sucks. Winning's great. Always.

Definitely. And I think winning in Silicon Valley beats being captivating, interesting, and not winning titles, which I don't think Kevin would in a really cool city like New York. Coming up next, Antonio Brown drama. What in God's name is going on? and Aaron Torres stops by to wrap up last night's national championship game. All sorts of stuff. By the way, next hour, Michael Lewis, one of the most talented writers and reporters, the big short, a fascinating guy, has got a new podcast on officiating in sports that I can't wait to talk to him.

That's next hour. Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays in noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific. Last night, a blown call changed the game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the plays, the controversies,

and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athletes themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports Slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to Sports Slice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

And for more, follow Timbo Slic Life 12 and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kier Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking. Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark.

Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing and we're still chasing it and we don't know when we've done enough because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross,

because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth? Are you a good person because you're afraid Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines,

as we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hard Way. Open your free, Our Heart Radio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. Jacob Kingston grew up in an isolated polygamous sect. We were God's chosen kingdom on earth. He felt destined for greatness.

So when a swaggering Armenian businessman catapults Jacob into an extraordinary world, he doesn't look back. Ferraris and Lamborghinis, private jets, meeting the president of Turkey. I'm Michelle McPhee, and this is one of the most shocking criminal conspiracies I've ever come across. When Jacob met Levant this plant to a billion dollar fraud. But with two kings from entirely different worlds, just how long can their empire survive? The largest tax investigation in American history. You need to tell me what you know. Is somebody coming after me?

Jacob told Levan, you're ruining my life. Listen to Kingdom of Fraud on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Life throws hurdles big and small. The question is, how do you conquer them? On Hurtle with Emily Abadi, we sit down with the most inspiring women in sports and wellness. professional athletes, coaches, and Olympic champions to talk about the challenges that shaped them

and the mindset that keeps them going. From the WNBA standout, Kate Martin, and rising hockey star, Layla Edwards. If a boy can do it, I don't see why a girl can't. Like, I've never understood that. Like, it didn't make sense in my brain. It's hard to be in spaces that no one looks like you, but don't ever feel like you don't feel like. Don't let that be the reason you don't do it.

An Olympic champs, Gabby Thomas and Katie Ladeki. The ability to show a gold medal to someone and have their face light. up and smile. That means the world to me. And that's what motivates me to win more gold medals. At our level, at this scale, like being able to fail in front of the entire world. Like, I can do anything. I can, like, I can do anything. Because resilience isn't just about winning. It's about showing up, even when it's hard. Listen to Hurtle with Emily Abadi on the IHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports.

skip meals anymore. I drink Soylent. Complete meal in a bottle. Every day I have it at 3.30. Soilent.com code heard 20, 20% off your first case. All right, Aaron Torres College Basketball Insider, Fox College Basketball radio host and a radio host for

our network. Two or three things let's get to. Sure. So there was replay used last night. Okay. Okay. I'm one of these people. I want to get it right. But I think replay is puncturing something that is huge in sports.

Momentum. And if I hit back-to-back threes and I got the crowd on my side and then we go to replay for eight and a half minutes, you have killed my momentum. What makes sports great is the big dunk in your face and the sack and the nine and a half minute replay and then you've killed the arena. I think it hurts the teams with momentum. Now what did you make of the call last night? my biggest takeaway was they got it right and I think it's one of these right like no matter what the call was somebody was going to be

mad and I also think if we either a eliminate replay or whatever like then the people were complaining well you got the wrong call and the call could have swung the game the other way and then it becomes the thing again of oh was the national championship altered is it tainted I mean right that's kind of what

happened on Saturday afternoon in the Auburn Virginia game there was a miss call there was no replay and all of a sudden everyone saying well Virginia doesn't deserve to be here. So I'm okay because they got the call right and that's the point of replay. How about this? Could you and I agree on this? One minute. If you can't figure out the fuzzy photos in a minute, call stands. I actually agree with you on that across all sports, by the way. Yes, yes. Julian Edelman didn't touch his thumb. I don't know. One minute. Yeah, no, because and I think

our buddy Nick Wright from first things first thing, he brought up a really good point last night of Like when we expanded replay across all sports, it wasn't to go frame by frame with a quarter of an inch of a thumb. So I have no problem with that. And I think it also, it wouldn't eliminate your problem, which is the momentum element of it. Which is huge. Yeah, it would help. And I think the other thing, too, from the momentum standpoint, is teams are getting extra timeouts. Players or coaches are getting to set their roster, set their lineups, change their lineups.

And so that's my problem with it is, as you and I were kind of talking off air, it benefits the better coaches, the more prepared coaches. But at the same time, there's a reason you only get so many timeouts and all those kind of things. Yeah, you don't want to give advantages. And I think the small school, if they can knock off the big school, they don't have the budgets, they don't have the staff, they don't have the depth. I like the idea, have you got a minute to call it? If not, it's not an advantage to Duke, which goes to their 38th assistant coach and figure something out.

All right, Zion Williamson, before we get to the game last night, Zion Williamson, I think there is room for three weeks of intense college basketball, and there's room for the NBA stars and the NBA. There are two different sports. College football in the NFL are starting to feel more and more similar. You think so? Well, I think the spread offenses of college are going into the NFL. I used to feel like college did wishbone and NFL through the ball.

Now it's like Canadian football, college football, NFL football, spread it out four receivers. College basketball feels like a different sport than the NBA. It's more coach than it is star. but I don't buy this idea, and I want to see where you fall on this, that college basketball is bad for a Zion Williamson. Oh, this is my point. And I've argued this with our buddy Chris Broussard, with our buddy Rob Parker.

I think Adam Silver, the dumbest thing he can do is remove the one and done rule. And listen, I get it. I'm a college basketball guy. I love it. But college basketball really kind of made Zion. Like you could say, oh, he has a million Instagram followers. But what does that mean? Did you know who Zion Williamson was a year ago?

I had seen high school video, and I thought that kid's a good dunker. And by the way, even the first four or five games this year, I was like, oh, whatever. And then it was about year seven, eight, nine, then the injury, and then I was just all in emotionally. Yeah. But I just think that this has helped build his brand so much. I was saying off air is the Duke Michigan State game, 18 million viewers for an elite eight game. As best I can tell, the highest. rated NBA game over the regular season.

LeBron Golden State Warriors, Christmas Day, 6 million viewers. One third. One third of people who have tuned into these NBA games. By the way, that 18 million people that watched Duke, Michigan State, will be more than every NBA game this year, including most of the final games.

Now, Game 7 will probably top it. Yeah, and we were looking this up for my Saturday show on Fox Sports Radio. Zion, Michigan State, Duke, it outrated game 7 of the Eastern conference finals last year. LeBron versus the Celtics, I believe it was similar

to Game 7 of Rockets Warriors. And so, college basketball for all of its faults, and we can argue about pay, da, da, da, da, da. They are giving one NBA owner a winning lottery ticket on June 28th or whenever the draft is. One NBA owner has a

star, I know you've talked about, where does he already fit in the most... By the way, John Morant. I didn't know who he was. I wouldn't have known him in the G League. To be honest with you, I watched, Joy and I sat here for about three days we're like, oh my God, he looks like at Westbrook. Yeah. Now I can't wait for him to get drafted.

I can't wait for you to pick on him in two years when he plays. No, I'm kidding. When he plays like Westbrook. Now, and this is my point on college basketball. I understand it has its faults. I understand kind of the broader context of should we force kids to go, you know, do college for a year. Yeah.

But Adam Silver's job isn't to do what's right by 18-year-olds. It's to do what's right for his 30 NBA owners. Like you said, Zion is a winning lottery ticket. John Morant is going to sell tickets from day. one, will they evolve into the... By the way, Lonzo Ball was, you know, he was a star before he got to the NBA. It hasn't worked out,

but he was a star. There was hype. There was real hype. Trey Young, Ben Simmons, you go, every year we get one or two of these guys. Zion Williamson's going to lead the NBA in Jersey sales. He would not have had he gone high school to the G League. So there's no question Zion's going to, I mean, I'm saying that like I know it, but my guess is if he goes to New York,

he's going to blow through everybody. If 18 million people tune in to see one of his games, by the way, 12 million for the Central Florida second round NCAA tournament game. I think Jersey sales are going to be pretty good. I think ticket sales are going to be good. Whoever is the opening

night game for whatever team he's on is going to be a monster rating next year. To me, Zion, college basketball didn't do it by itself, but college basketball certainly helps Zion Williams. By the way, you know, college basketball NBA, I'm more of an NBA guy, always have been.

But there was a time that I like college basketball a lot, and that's when Patrick Ewing came back for a fourth year or third year and Christian Leitner came back for four but now it's more of a turn style it's more of an airport tarmac you land you're there briefly next flight you're out of town but but I mean what do you think college basketball spot in the sports galaxy is today I liked your analogy of what was it the bar that used to have good food but they still have good margaritas yes yeah so I listen my my stance is most sports are kind of seasonal kind of regional most people don't watch golf any day other than Sunday of the masters right Thursday of the U.S.

open, whatever, like Major League Baseball. We talk about it opening day. We have a little fun at All-Star break. And then, like, we get invested for the World Series. And so I think college basketball, is it sort of niche? Yeah, I think it's sort of niche. Does it have a place on the national scale? Yeah, it might only be four or five weeks, but I'm telling you, right now in Lawrence, Kansas, they're trying to figure out what the team looks like next year. Chapel Hill, Durham, Lexington, Louisville. And so I think it's become a more localized sport. I think there is still intense interest in individual local spots like baseball, but it's hard to talk on kind of a national scale, and I get that.

By the way, UCLA, listen, I know this is, we live in, I live in Los Angeles, and so, you know, everybody thinks, oh, you're an L.A. Homer, although I've, you know, obviously been very critical of the Lakers, and I sold my stock in the L.A. Rams, despite the fact they got to the Super Bowl, but UCLA hired Mick Cronin. I'm just going to tell you, I thought they butcher this whole thing. I don't think Mick Cronin feels like Los Angeles. I don't think anybody knows him out here. I don't get it.

But again, you're a foot soldier with this sport. Sure. What happened? Well, what happened was they missed on like their first 11 choices. And I mean, it's one of those things and it's funny because when the Calipari news came out, I kind of defended UCLA. I said, I don't think they ever thought they were getting Calipari. So maybe this is their way of kind of getting the news out. We're willing to pay top dollar.

And then you find out a week later that they're not willing to pay the next guy's buyout at his last place, who is Jamie Dixon, who's at Texas Christian. So look, there's no secret. This is their fourth, fifth, sixth choice. It doesn't move the needle. I find it ironic. I mean, he's a much more kind of accomplished coach in terms of wins and losses. Steve Alford was Sweet 16 three times in five years at UCLA, and that wasn't enough.

Cronin didn't do anything in the tournament. Mick Cronin won Sweet 16. It came in 2012. 2012. Like Anthony Davis was in college in 2012. Listen, I wasn't my wife's first choice. So I'm a believer in you don't have to be the first choice. Okay.

You prefer not to be the eighth. Sure. If I was my wife's eighth choice, at some point I'm like, she's bailing water on this thing. I think this is, I got a theory on this thing, that New York and Los Angeles are not built for college sports anymore. In the last five to seven years, they've gotten so expensive with tech that you can't hire staffs. You just can't afford. UCLA is a public school. St. John's, I think, is a public school.

USC can do it because they're private. I don't think L.A. and New York are built anymore for college sports. They're too expensive. You can pay the coach $7 million. You can't pay a staff. And I think the days of UCLA and St. Johns are kind of done. Yeah, I don't know that I necessarily would go that far. I don't think Mick Cronin's the guy.

But what I do think is I was there for all of those games when Lanzo Ball was there. And so to me, it can still be that thing with the right guy as the head coach. This isn't the right guy, though. Great seeing you. Thank you. And it's how many of me. Aaron Torres, love having you on Fox Sports Radio as well. Joy and I return our two next in Los Angeles.

It's the herd. One more herd? The herd streams 24 hours a day, seven days a week within the IHeart Radio app. Search Herd to listen live or on demand whenever you'd like. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in.

I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise. Breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context and ask the questions everybody wants answered.

Sports Slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to Sports Slice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slic Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kier Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations. with so many incredible guests.

I'm talking. Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch.

Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross. Because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth. Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person.

Join me, Keir Gaines, is we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hardway. Open your free Our Heart Radio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. Jacob Kingston grew up in an isolated polygamous sect. We were God's chosen kingdom on earth. He felt destined for greatness. So when a swaggering Armenian businessman catapults Jacob into an extraordinary world, he doesn't look back. Ferraris and Lamborghinis, private jets, meeting the president of Turkey. I'm Michelle McPhee, and this is one of the most shocking criminal conspiracies I've ever come across.

When Jacob met Levant, this went to a billion-dollar fraud. But with two kings from entirely different worlds, just how long can their empire survive? The largest tax investigation in American history. You need to tell me what you know. Is somebody coming after me? Jacob told Levan, you're ruining my life. Listen to Kingdom of Fraud on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Life throws hurdles big and small.

The question is, how do you conquer them? On Hurtle with Emily Abadi, we sit down with the most inspiring women in sports and wellness. athletes, coaches, and Olympic champions to talk about the challenges that shaped them and the mindset that keeps them going from the WNBA standout Kate Martin and rising hockey star Layla Edwards. If a boy can do it, I don't see why a girl can't. Like, I've never understood that. Like, it didn't make sense in my brain.

It's hard to be in spaces that no one looks like you, but don't ever feel like you don't feel like you don't belong. Don't let that be the reason you don't do it. An Olympic champs Gabby Thomas and Katie Ladeki. The ability to show a gold medal to someone and have their face light up and smile. that means the world to me, and that's what motivates me to win more gold medals. At our level, at this scale, like being able to fail in front of the entire world. Like, I can do anything.

I can do anything. Because resilience isn't just about winning. It's about showing up, even when it's hard. Listen to Hurtle with Emily Abadi on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. This is The Heard. Hour 2 live in L.A., wherever you may be and however you may be listening. IHeart Radio, Fox Sports Radio and FS1. Joy Taylor is joining me.

By the way, if my eyes are watery, it's because I've been crying during the break. I'm watching this. You're genuinely crying. Oh, Jesus. God. Damn you, Budweiser! Budweiser did this. It is a tear-jurker, though.

Oh, my God. I can't even, I almost couldn't get through the segment. This is awful. Well, it's great. Budweiser put out. I wouldn't call it a commercial. It's just a piece, a social piece of Dwayne Wade.

You know, he's been doing Jersey exchanges with players from all around the league because this is his last season. I'm going to start crying as you talk about this. Go ahead. And Bud Weiser put together a really nice piece of people who Wade has influenced and touched throughout his career that weren't players.

So it's his mother. Fans. Fans. People that he's helped who've been in a crisis in Miami. and the sister of one of the students who was killed at Parklands gave her brother's jersey. So, yeah, it's really nice. It's going to be a big moment in Miami tonight. It's his final home game.

Just great. I think the greatest athlete in Miami sports history. Well, it's only Marine Over Wade. I mean, it's those two. I mean, in terms of impact, and I think Wade, you know, Dan was always seen as just the talent. Well, I mean, I think the, the Marino is the man. Like, he is the man in Miami. But, you know, Wade had brought the championships.

Three of them. And he really just defines the- Dwayne Wade is what sports is at its best. Jeter, you know, Kobe in Los Angeles, Wade, people that stay, you know, I don't even count the Chicago year. No. Seriously, it didn't happen. It didn't happen.

The heat fans weren't even mad about it. If I was commissioner of the NBA, I would have. eliminate the D-Wade to Chicago. I take it out of the books. It never happened. D. I mean, Wade is what makes sports great. It's what makes sports deep and resonate. It's about people committing to a community and making,

you know how many kids in Miami, you know, like took dads, took their sons to watch D. Wade. And it's just, it's just, I can't even talk about this. I'm going to get emotional. And just the whole show will go into the tubes because I'm crying. Oh, it's just congratulations to, a beer company for making me cry. Usually, beer companies make me buzzed.

This one made me cry. Well, I mean, if you have enough of the beer, you might cry also. God, it's just such a tearjerker. It's so incredible. I'm just a puddle over here. Okay. Let's, let's, I have to get harsher again. Okay.

So yesterday something happened that I'm not a big fan of. Like, okay, you have your phone and stuff. And I follow people, right? And then sometimes it's called sliding into somebody's DMs. I'm married, so I don't do it with women. I do it with men, and I say, great article, and you're awesome. And occasionally, I do it to a colleague to say, awesome job. But by the way, it is something that's private.

If I go to your DM direct message, that is never to be made public. I've had people yell at me on direct message. I've had people compliment me. I send people well wishes. And so Juju Smith-Schuster a couple years ago was a wide receiver at USC, and he's a terrific kid. terrific. USC calls him the hardest working player they've ever had. He's a great kid. He can be kind of goofy on social media, but he's a heck of a kid.

And he direct message Antonio Brown. How can I get better, blah, blah, blah. Well, Antonio Brown, who has gone off the rails in the last two weeks, unveiled it yesterday to make juju look bad or something, but instead it makes Antonio Brown look like, what are you doing, dude? You don't take direct messages and put them out there to the public. That's private. That's personal. And by the way, my takeaway on that whole mess yesterday with Antonio Brown and taking shots at Ben is Mike Tomlin and Big Ben are laughing their butts off this morning. And they're going, we told you was Looney Tunes. And by the way, for a couple of weeks, I was kind of split on this thing. I was like, well, I don't know.

Now it's like, who got the crazy guy out of the building. And if I'm John Gruden and I'm waking up this morning, I've got to be honest with you. I got a little buyer's remorse here. I got a little buyer's remorse. You know, this is my knock on Gruden. I said, does John Gruden have a plan or is he just making crap up as he goes? And last year I said, I don't think he's got a plan. I think he's just making it up as he goes.

And then I gave him a little bit of a benefit in the free agency. He went out and got offensive stars. But this kind of feels like, again, they didn't do their homework. You let go of Khalil Mack who's a good dude. and Amari Cooper, who's like a super dude, and you got crazy guy, lunatic guy, who's taking shots and taking direct messages and putting them out to the public.

I don't like this look at all. And by the way, it's why when the trade was made in Antonio Brown, I said at the time, everybody said, oh, the Steelers got jobbed. They only got a third and a fifth round pick. And I said, time out. The Steelers have a history of drafting players, especially wide receivers, better than anybody in the league.

A third round and a fifth round pick, and they got crazy guy out of the building, they won the trade. They won the trade. By the way, as I said, even if Brown is a good year, this is a value league. You're getting no value out of him. You're paying him a fortune. Even if he had 15 touchdowns, you're not getting value out of him. He's worth his money. But everybody in the media just crushed the Steelers on this.

Only a third, only a fifth. Well, a third round player should be, if they needed a wide receiver, a very good wide receiver. Antonio Brown was what, a six-round pick? When did the third round become a disaster? Yeah. To me, here's the way NFL people look at it. A first round picks a pro boulder. A second and a third-round pick are eventual starters and, you know, productive contributors.

From that point on, you're flipping coins on. Can they be maybe an event? But your second and third-round picks are- I've never once been like, oh, third-on picks. Yeah, this whole... It makes this sense to me. This Antonio Brown thing, Nick Wright, talked about it in first things first this morning.

Listen to him. John Gruden made the decision. Who's the first Oakland Raider to get paid in the John Gruden era? This guy. And now his skills are undeniable. But he's the guy you go out and trade for when you're trading guys away. I just don't know what that says to the other guys. I think it says John's making it up as he goes.

And I've said this before. The coaches that work in all sports, all of them, no acceptance. have a plan and over the course of their tenure unveil the plan. If I said a random fan, what's Belichick's plan? Seeking value, getting players to play for less, no players bigger than the system, that that's his system. It's not just collecting players. I mean, Cleveland for years has had good players. Tampa Bay's had good players.

Miami's had good players. They don't have a plan. Now Cleveland thinks they do have a plan. We'll see. Pittsburgh's always got a plan. Pittsburgh's not always great, but they've always got a plan. And those are the teams I like. So Aaron Rogers yesterday came firing.

Aaron Rogers came out and was taking big swings at the media and people and that teammates going out there and swinging a day. And let me just say this about Aaron Rogers getting ripped in the Tyler Dunn article. Let me defend Aaron Rogers on two things. Number one, quarterbacks get the most attention. Okay. So the bottom line is if Aaron Rogers was a great running back, this story didn't get published. If Aaron Rogers wasn't gifted, handsome, awesome, talented, and has a Super Bowl, if it wasn't for his greatness, this, you wouldn't even, an editor wouldn't even clear this story.

An editor would be like, you're going to spend two months on a story about a high-maintenance, weakside linebacker. So part of the reason this story gets written about him is, It's because Aaron Rogers matters. There have been years he was the most important guy in the league. Aaron Rogers matters. And if you matter in life like Kevin Durand or Aaron Rogers or Bryce Harper, you get talked about more. You become a victim of mattering.

Your success. First thing to defend Aaron. Here's the second thing to defend Aaron is that this is not the first story that's been dramatic with a quarterback. Russell Wilson, ESPN the magazine had that, you know, Russell's fake. and he's inauthentic. That was kind of an ugly year for Russell.

Wasn't a good look for Russell. Big Ben, by the way, has had all sorts of drama. Okay, so Jay Cutler, let's not make this that Aaron's the first guy to get criticized. I mean, Russell Wilson's gotten whacked. By the way, just a story out this year in Carson Wentz. Carson Wentz is no day at the beach. Players like Nick more than Carson. So let's not make this that Aaron is the only guy getting criticized.

Did I think Aaron was way too defensive yesterday? Do I think Aaron would have been much better? He's a smart guy coming out and saying, hey, you know, listen, I'm not perfect. I'm flawed. I'm tough. I'm driven. I rub people the wrong way. I think it would have been a thousand times better look.

But I do think Aaron's trying to galvanize his base, Green Bay, the locker room, new coach, his community. So it's kind of the fake news. Everybody's bitter. And that kind of galvanizes the people around you. I get it. I wouldn't have done it. Aaron chose that path.

I think he's smarter than that, whatever. But he had a comment. Let me just play one of the comments he talked about. And go ahead. And with Greg, I don't even know what to say. It bothers me that every time there's an article, it's the same two people. If there's not an article about me, do you ever hear their name anywhere else? At what point do you move on?

You talk about me being sensitive and petty? At what point do you move on or stop telling the same stories? Like really? a conversation with Carlos Rogers in the field and making a joke about his situation, that's where you're going to hold on to? And, oh, yeah, I knew that, you know, I wasn't going to be a Packer next season.

It's the same two people. It's the same story. At some point, you've got to have something else to talk about. Well, that's just not true. Ryan Grant has talked about him. Craig Knoll, Jeff Saturday, Jeff Perlman, Donald Driver. You can go back to the gunslinger.

You can go to this article. That's just not, and I'm not just defending. Greg, because he's here. By the way, I've got two great sources on Aaron Rogers. One, I can't unveil because he's still around Aaron. Aaron can be rough, condescending, a little into Aaron. I think him being defensive yesterday and projecting is kind of sometimes what people are turned off by. If you read the article, it said Aaron never take accountability for anything. And yesterday, he didn't take accountability for anything, which is I was surprised at his tactic because I think he's a really, really smart guy. I think he's a really, really thoughtful guy. I think he's a

good guy. I think he's flawed like everybody. I mean, I like Kobe Brian a lot. Kobe could drive me nuts. Kobe could drive me nuts his last couple contracts. But that's not fair. You can go back to the Gunslinger book. Is Jeff Saturdays been quoted about the eye rolling? Is he after you? Nobody's after you. It should be noted that there are parts of Aaron Rogers chip on his shoulder. that I like. I like that people overlooked Drew Brees. And I like that people thought Russell Wilson was too small. And I like that Aaron Rogers went to a junior college.

And he can be a little, lack of a better word, pissy. I kind of like that about him. But I think there are times. The criticisms are not just from two people. And they're valid. It was harsh. It was not a great look for him. I'm not saying it's easy.

If that article was about me, it's not easy. You come into work and you're feeling some anxiety and you feel embarrassed and you have to defend yourself. For the record, if you think I'm anti-Packer, Can I just say this? Yes, I can. It's my show. So here goes. I actually think all of this for Big Ben and Aaron Rogers this year,

I think they're going to have really good years. I think the Steelers are winning their division, and I think the Packers are winning theirs. And I think in a weird way, this is going to play the Big Ben and Aaron Rogers' strengths. They're ticked off. They're going to be completely focused. I think Aaron's going to have a great year. I think the Packers between free agency and last year's draft have done a great job

to find young defensive talent. I think actually Aaron's going to bounce back. out of this and he's going to have a great year. And I cross my fingers. I don't love the fact that the Packers would not make a run at Khalil Mack because I'd rather have him on my team than face him twice a year. They open the season at Soldier Field. Good luck with that. Blocking Khalil Mack. But I do think Aaron and the Packers are going to, like the Steelers and Big Ben, who have had a rough off season, both use this as motivation to create hyper-focus and kick butt this year. Greg Jennings will show up on our show

in a couple of minutes. It's like the story that keeps on giving. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific. On Fox Sports Radio, FS1, and the iHeart radio app. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying,

and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where sports slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise. Breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real.

From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to SportsSlic on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark.

Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so rapid. up in the chase, that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth. Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Keir Gaines, as we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hard Way.

Open your free iHeartRadio app, search Learn the Hardway, and listen now. Jacob Kingston grew up in an isolated polygamous sect. We were God's chosen kingdom on earth. He felt destined for greatness. So when a swaggering Armenian businessman catapults Jacob into an extraordinary world, he doesn't look back. Ferraris and Lamborghinis, private jets, meeting the president of Turkey.

I'm Michelle McPhee, and this is one of the most shocking criminal conspiracies I've ever come across. When Jacob met Levant, this went to a billion dollar fraud. But with two kings from entirely different worlds, just how long can their empire survive? The largest tax investigation in American history. You need to tell me what you know.

Is somebody? coming after me. Jacob told Levan, you're ruining my life. Listen to Kingdom of Fraud on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Life throws hurdles big and small. The question is, how do you conquer them? On Hurtle with Emily Abadi, we sit down with the most inspiring women in sports and wellness,

professional athletes, coaches, and Olympic champions to talk about the challenges that shaped them and the mindset that keeps them going. from the WMBA standout Kate Martin and rising hockey star Layla Edwards. If a boy can do it, I don't see why a girl can't. Like, I've never understood that. Like, it didn't make sense in my brain. It's hard to be in spaces that no one looks like you, but don't ever feel like you don't belong.

Don't let that be the reason you don't do it. An Olympic champs Gabby Thomas and Katie Ladecki. The ability to show a gold medal to someone and have their face light up and smile, that means the world to me. And that's what motivates me to win more gold medals. at our level at this scale, like being able to fail in front of the entire world. Like, I can do anything.

I can do anything. Because resilience isn't just about winning. It's about showing up, even when it's hard. Listen to Hurtle with Emily Abadi on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. This weekend, we're under the lights on Saturday night as Kyle Bush looks for his third consecutive win at Richmond Raceway. It's at 730 Eastern Saturday on Fox in the Fox Sports app. All right, good stuff.

So yesterday was crazy Aaron Rogers fired back, including at our colleague Greg Jennings, about the story by Tyler Dunn that was very critical of Aaron Rogers and his relationship with Mike McCarthy. And here is yesterday Aaron Rogers talking about our Greg Jennings. And with Greg, I don't even know what to say. It bothers me that every time there's an article, it's the same two people. If there's not an article about me, do you ever hear their name anywhere else? At what point do you move on?

You talk about me being sensitive and petty? At what point do you move on or stop telling the same stories? Like really? A conversation with Carlos Rogers in the field and making a joke about his situation? That's where you're going to hold on to? And, oh, yeah, I knew that, you know, I wasn't going to be a Packer next season. It's the same two people. It's the same story at some point.

You got to have something else to talk about. And with that via the Coward Global Satellite Network, Greg Jennings joins us in his home in Minneapolis, former Packer. All right, let's respond to that. What do you make of those comments by Aaron Rogers saying that about you? Well, number one, when I listened to the entire interview and then he's asked about, you know, Jermichael Finley, he gave some points that are like, wow, you know, if I'm, if I'm Jermichael, I'm like, okay, maybe I should reconsider my stance. When he's asked about myself, he says he doesn't know what to say.

And here's my response to that. You don't know what to say because there is really nothing to say. It really isn't. I am not trying to continue to add fuel to a fire before I ever talked about this. And Colin, I talked about it on this show with you sitting right there across from you and joy when the world first really heard this. My mom, my wife, that was their first time ever hearing this. So this was something that I wasn't trying to throw out there and add fuel to a fire. It was a story that was real, something that bothered me.

And it could be called sensitive. That's fine. I'll take that. But I wasn't trying to throw it back in his face. I wanted to talk to him about it first. I had opportunity to do that. I thought when I went to Green Bay and called the game and spoke to Mike McCarthy and shared it with him, told him I would like to talk to Aaron Rogers,

talk to training staff there, talk to players there, and said, let me talk to Aaron. Aaron saw me and completely avoided me. before this story was before i ever told that story these were my this was my stance i wanted to talk to him behind closed doors and just air it out but that never happened i never was given that opportunity and if he's listening now he knows i follow him on all his platform my number has not changed I look through my text messages and made sure, let me see if he has my information. He has my information.

He knows how to get into contact with me. This does not, I'm not trying to shoot bullets at Aaron Rogers. I'm simply stating my fact to what I know is true in my own opinion of my time and my experience and what I thought. Now, to his response on, you know, a conversation being made light of and it was a joke, Well, obviously that needed to be cleared up with me because I didn't know it was a joke. I didn't take it as a joke.

It could have been cleared up before I ever even shared the story four or five years, six years after the fact, before ever, like before I ever even talked about it publicly. He had that much time. So for me, that's the part that bothers me a little bit because I'm not going to sit here and act like I don't have a or did not have a. really good relationship with Ann Rogers because I did. Did I like everything that he did? Did I

agree with everything that he did? Absolutely not. Did we thrive on the football field? Yes, did we have a relationship off the football field? Yes, one that I felt like would continue to grow and that I felt even on my exit, there would have been even more conversation between he and I. Now, regardless of that happening or not, it's neither is to say what he's shooting back at yesterday. I mean, it is what it is. I expect it. He's going to win when it comes to public opinion and who's going to side with who. Yes, he's playing.

He's Aaron Rogers. He's the quarterback. Quarterbacks are tend to be looked at as the ones who are always right. Yeah. And they're going to say the right things to make sure that they say face with organization, moving forward, and with fan base. I respect that. But don't expect me to applaud you when you do well and to then not applaud when you're not doing

or living up to what the expectations are that you have said. And that has always been me. I am going to speak truth, whether that is truth that is for you or truth that you don't really want to hear because it attacks or it comes at you in a constructive manner. Yeah. Well, by the way, I've always said, and I tell all former players this, I said, if you want to be a star in broadcasting, give up your buddies. Occasionally, you have to be critical of people you like.

And Peyton Manning, by the way, has told people he doesn't, he's not sure he wants to be a broadcaster because he got too many friends in football and he didn't want to be critical of his brother, which I totally respect. But if you want to be Charles Barkley, if you want to be Greg Jennings, if you want to be Terry Bradshaw. You want to be Howie Long. A-Rod's been a great broadcaster. Sometimes you've got to call guys out, and I think you've always been forthright about that. Now, I

also think, I'll say this, because everybody thinks I hate Aaron Rogers, but I said this before you came on. I think actually he was playing to his base. In a way, it's a little Trumpian that I'm going to get, my guys are going to rally around me. It's fake news. Everybody's better. I actually think

Aaron's going to thrive over the next 12 months because in the, he's got to get this organization right now. Mike's gone. It's all on Aaron. Part of me gets what he did yesterday. Like galvanize the base, blame

others, they're all against us. Could I make the argument that it was a move to gain steam and momentum in his locker room with a new coach? And he's smarter than we think and he's doing this as a plan. You know, no, I think that's a safe assessment

that you're making. And it could very well be true. my my assessment is a little different okay um again he's saying what he feels and his heart is true uh he he i honestly don't believe erin rogers really solely thinks that he is and or has been a problem has there been issues yes but because he has had so much success everyone everyone is willing to forego anything that does not or did not appear

to look like success because what he brings is so great and I understand that but that doesn't mean it can't be challenged. That doesn't mean it isn't under question. And so yes, is this going to

possibly galvanize those guys? 100%. I do believe that. But at the end of the day, the ownership is going to be on Aaron Rogers to make the relationship not only with his teammates work, which he does that, but with his new head coach in Matla, Floor. All right. Up against the clock, Greg Jennings, I always appreciate this.

I wanted you to respond to the article. And as I said earlier, there's a list of former Packers who have said things, not just you and Dr. Michael Finley. That's a non-truth. But I did hear a lot of emotion from Aaron Rogers. I thought he kind of sounded raw yesterday. He was ticked off. It came out swinging and I wanted your response on that.

We got to run. Greg, you know I always appreciate it. Absolutely. Appreciate it, Colin. All right. By the way, you might not be able to afford a new car with your tax refund, but you can get a new paint job. Mako M-A-A-A-A-C-O. Get your dream paint job during the tax season sales event.

Joy Taylor, for the news. No, no, no, no. Turn on the news. This is the herd line news. By the way, Aaron, if you'd like to hear more from He is on our show quite a bit. Yes. So you can watch for the places that you can see.

And we don't just talk about the Packers when you're gone either. You know, you attract more flies with honey than you do vinegar, right? Isn't that the saying? Yeah, that's my journalism. I don't know why you want to catch flies, but it would seem like, you know, coming out and just taking the high road and all that would probably dead this story. But thanks. More content for us. You always disarm critics when you take the blame.

And then Aaron just said, hey, you know what, man, I was, some of this is on me. it just disarms guys. Or just say all of it's on you because nobody believes that. And then it's just, it's done. All right. So the Heat are hosting the Sixers for their final home game of the season, which also means it's the final home game for Dwayne Wade. But Wiser made you cry earlier with their last dance video.

Now, this tears for you. It's on their Twitter page. You should go watch it. It is a tear drinker. So Dee Wade has seen a lot of tough challenges during his long career with the Heat. And he talked about one of the toughest challenges for him. He told the Athletic, Taking a step back to Braun was the toughest part for me at the time.

Obviously, before my injuries, I was a bad boy. It was my city, my team. If we win the finals in 2011, I'm arguably finals MVP. I didn't need to, but we got two out of the next three championships, and I'd still do it all over again. I do think that Wade gets a lot of credit for handing the team over to LeBron. And it's interesting that he's saying this right now in this moment, because that is a difficult thing to do.

He was already a champion. and he was already Dwayne Wade, like he said, it was his city and his team. And to turn that over to a superstar when you're a superstar yourself, it's not an easy thing to do. And it's kind of what I feel like LeBron needs to do at this juncture in his career. Now, Wade had a bit more of an injury history than LeBron did, obviously. Or LeBron does. But, you know, even what LeBron's quote yesterday talking about, you know, he's excited to see

who's going to get in the car with him. Yeah. I mean, like, remember how you got here. Like, there comes a point in your career. where it doesn't mean that you have to stop being a superstar, but you do kind of have to pivot and allow a younger guy who doesn't have the experiences that you do, doesn't even have the championship pedigree that you do,

but can take the team to the next level and win championship. So it'll be interesting to see how he pivots for the rest of his career, and tonight is going to be a big night in Miami with Wade's final home game. So speaking of stars teaming up, the rumors in the chatter linking Durant and Kyrie with the Knicks are not dying anytime soon. And according to Frank Isola, so sure are some executives,

and players, players agents of a Durant Irving pairing in New York, that one agent told the athletic that Durant and Irving are debating who will sign first. Why is that important? The player that is signed second is viewed as the follower, not the leader. Oh, Lord. These are the things NBA players think about. Okay, we can have a co-signing. It's like when my daughter bought a car, I co-signed.

We both signed it. We could both sign at the same time. How about that? Yeah, but it's her car, though. We all know it's her car. I don't know. I don't know what to make of it. I guess it is kind of important. They both have championships.

So, you know, who is the leader? Obviously, I think most people will look to KD in that spot. But there's so many factors that goes into this move. I know you don't think that this is the right move for Durant. But if he wins a championship in New York, it would change history for the NBA. Like, it would change his legacy forever. And the same way that LeBron winning a championship in Cleveland changed it, it's similar.

And I know that New York is not Katie's home, but it is the New York Knicks, and it's impactful. And don't sleep on, you know, the Knicks have the first all-black front office in NBA history. And Kevin Durant has ties to that front office with Scott Perry and Coach Fisdale was very well liked. And so just, you know, I think it's a strong possibility. Finally, XFL Commissioner Oliver Luck revealed some interesting things

to pro football talk. He said that touchdowns in the new league will result in the scoring team deciding whether to go for one point, two points or three points. The one point conversion would come not from a kick, but from a scrimmage play at the two. Two points will start from the five and three points would start from the ten. Yeah, there's some interesting rules. I talked to Oliver about six months ago.

They've got some fascinating ideas. I think this league is going to work. It's well-funded. It's got good TV partners. And Vince McMahon has already had a football league A and knows what worked and what doesn't. He just watched the AFA fail. So it's going to work. And by the way, NFL's already signed 30 AAF players.

So there's players out there. There's NFL players. I just think that they're going to shake up the whole football world. I mean, you already see Nick Sabin starting to get nervous about it. Oh, yeah. You know, the ruler of college football. So I do think that they are going to shake things up and be interesting. And I think there's an audience there.

I think there's an audience for any live sporting event now because live sports are the last available thing you have to watch. Yeah. unless it's Game of Thrones, of course. Yeah. And it's going to be an 8 to 10-week league. It's not a huge commitment. It's February 8th to April 8th.

And they're not trying to poach off of the NFL. No. It's not a competition. No. It's adding to it. Yeah. So watch out SEC. They're going to come and take your young, talented freshman and sophomores.

I think college football is going to survive. Yeah, it will. Joy with the news. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by. The Hurd-Lide News. The best sports book ever written in my opinion was Moneyball by Michael Lewis. He also wrote the big short, which became an unbelievable movie. The Blindside.

He's the author of all of them. He is, he'll be in studio in a couple of minutes. His name is Michael Lewis. He has a new podcast called Against the Rules. And the first episode is called Ref You Suck. He looks at the treatment of sports referees as he visits the NBA's replay center. I cannot wait for this. And that's coming up next. Discover a card alert you if you find your Social Security number on any of those thousands of risky websites. If they find it, they'll alert you free for card members. Sign up online, discover.com slash free alerts. Limitations apply back in a second.

It's the herd. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise.

Breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them listen to Sports Slice on the iHeart radio app apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast

and for more follow timbo slice of life 12 and the ticot podcast network on ticot welcome to my new podcast learn the hard way with me your host and your favorite therapist care games and in recognition of mental health awareness month i'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests i'm talking trip fontaine ryan clark sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing

and we're still chasing it and we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth? Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two

different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Keir Gaines, as we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hard Way. Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. Jacob Kingston grew up in an isolated polygamous sect. We were God's chosen kingdom on earth. He felt destined for greatness.

So when a swaggering Armenian businessman catapults Jacob into an extraordinary world, He doesn't look back. Ferraris and Lamborghinis, private jets, meeting the president of Turkey. I'm Michelle McPhee, and this is one of the most shocking criminal conspiracies I've ever come across. When Jacob met Levant this went to a billion dollar fraud. But with two kings from entirely different worlds, just how long can their empire survive? The largest tax investigation in American history. You need to tell me what you know.

is somebody coming after me. Jacob told Levan, you're ruining my life. Listen to Kingdom of Fraud on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Life throws hurdles big and small. The question is, how do you conquer them? On hurdle with Emily Abadi, we sit down with the most inspiring women in sports and wellness, professional athletes, coaches, and Olympic champions to talk about the challenges that shaped them

and the mindset that keeps them going. From the WMBA standout, Kate Martin and rising hockey star, Layla Edwards. If a boy can do it, I don't see why a girl can't. Like, I've never understood that. Like, it didn't make sense in my brain. It's hard to be in spaces that no one looks like you, but don't ever feel like you don't belong.

Don't let that be the reason you don't do it. An Olympic champs, Gabby Thomas, and Katie Ledecky. The ability to show a gold medal to someone and have their face light up and smile, that means the world to me. And that's what motivates me to win. more gold medals. At our level, at this scale, like being able to fail in front of the entire world. Like, I can do anything. I can, like, I can do anything. Because resilience isn't just

about winning. It's about showing up, even when it's hard. Listen to Hurtle with Emily Abadi on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHart Women's Sports. He wrote the big short at one best screenplay. All three of his books have turned into movies. Best Picture, Moneyball, Big Short, The Blindside, Blindside Sandra Bullock won Best Actress. He is in the running for the, to me, my favorite author in America, Michael Lewis, New York Times bestselling author. And what's fascinating is you've got a Malcolm Gladwell feel to you. You introduce me to things, stories as they develop I don't know about. And I said that to you as you have now created a new podcast. And you said,

Malcolm, in this case, is one of the editors on the podcast. I mean, the podcast is done for a new podcast company called Pushkin Industries, which was started by Malcolm and another friend of ours named Jacob Weisberg. So he's in the middle of this podcast. Well, two of my favorite guys, so there's a lot of intellectual bandwidth there. So you have the new podcast called Against the Rule. So let's explain what it is to the audience. Sure.

So it's seven episodes. It's not just me talking to people. It's their stories. And the theme is referees in American life. Only one with a second one just dropped today. But the first one was actually about basketball referees. And there's an argument running through it, and the argument is basically any place where there's a human being

in the position of being a referee, he's under attack or on the run in different ways. And the NBA refs are like a wonderful example of this. Why? A couple reasons. One is Adam Silver, since he's come on board, has gone to incredible links to improve the refereeing, the replay center that they can go to to fix calls that are wrong,

broadening the pool of people they draw from to hire the refs. New training. I mean, they brought in a general from the Air Force to run the training program of the refs. They make the refs aware of their errors in the way they didn't use to. There's a transparency. To transparency. Publishing the mistakes, there's a push towards improving the accuracy of the calls.

And the effect seems to be just to anger everybody. I mean, the relationship between the refs and the players. It's at an all time long. Whoa. So the pits. It's a really interesting situation. And they're like two answers to this. The simple answer would be, oh, the refs are just worse.

I think what you dig into it as we do in the podcast, there's no way you come to that conclusion. The refs are actually better than they were. What's happened is a couple things. One is we notice their mistakes more. Technology. Technology is a big thing. It's on the jumbo-tron.

And the second thing is when you improve the accuracy of the calls, who do you irritate? you irritate the home team because they used to get more of the calls. Home court advantage, largely driven by refs calls, has shrunk, and so the people in the arena are not as happy as they used to be,

but the stars, the stars used to get the calls in a better way, more than they used to. And that's, if you look at the friction between the players and the refs, a lot of it's coming from the stars.

It's Durant and Curry and Hardin and getting thrown out of games and technicals and they're the ones who are in the faces of the rafts. Can I throw out another element? Sure. Is that with the new CBA several years ago, even marginal players now are paid more than NFL stars, that money makes us do two things. We build bigger walls around our castle. We don't relate to regular people. We have somebody get our groceries.

We have some, but we fly private. We don't fly commercial. The vagaries of a normal society are no longer our problems there to people working for us. And money makes us think we're smarter than we are, and players are harder to officiate because they're richer. And when you're rich, you don't suffer the commonalities of American life. How can you not give me this call? This is not to blame NBA players. I see NFL quarterbacks complain more. I see baseball players treat umpires like crap. These guys have a story. This is a story of the financial crisis. There's Wall Street people. Tell me this. No, it's the same thing. It's like, who are you to referee me? Right? Who are you to referee me?

That is where we go in the podcast. We go to psychology who study the effects of privilege, and privileged people behave badly. They don't, when a privileged person comes up against a not-privileged person in some kind of conflict, the privileged person does not want or expect someone to fairly referee the situation. They expect to steamroll over the not-privileged person. There's a great study done by a friend of mine at Cal who's a psychologist. He looked at four-way stop signs and the way cars behaved at four-way stop signs.

Those were a nightmare for consumers, by the way. I've been in one of those. They're a nightmare. And he classified the cars by how fancy the cars were. Like a new BMW Mercedes was a one and like, you know, the AMC PACER was a five. And when they come to this four-way stop sign, who behaves badly? Who runs it? Who abuses the situation?

The nice car. The nice car. And, you know, LeBron is the nice car. So I think that is exactly right, that the problem we have with refereeing in the society is a byproduct of the inequality in the society. And people in a position of privilege just don't like being refereed. And the referees are feeling the brunt of this. What about the NBA replay center, which is in Sikaka's New Jersey you spent time at? Was that like a...

It was a really cool place. I mean, it's built. Think about this. They spent $15 million to build that place, and they reverse two calls a game. And what it is is it's a really peculiar place in that it's just a room with 110 giant screens in it. And the screens are, and it's connected by direct fiber optic link. Like they ran fiber optic links from there to each of the NBA arenas. And all that's on the screens is the angles of the court.

I mean, you can't, you know, you can't watch, you know, Nathan for you or Homeland on these screens. You are, all you can see is the angles of the court, there's no. graphics. There's no nothing. It's just, and it's just to isolate the game in a way the human eye even can to get the thing more accurate. And the thing that was, Joe Borgia, who runs the play said to me, something that's stuck in my head, he said, you know, all we see in the air is whatever happens to be on that court. And so someone's all watch the halftime shows or whatever's going on. And sometimes they have a magician. And when the magician is outperforming at halftime, we can slow it down and see how he does his tricks.

And that is a sort of what they're doing with players, right? Flopping. It's an optical illusion. And they're trying to get to something they'll never get to, perfect accuracy, but in the name of fairness. And this, but the interesting thing is not that they're doing this. Of course, they're doing this if you can do this, I guess. But that it's provoking the anger that is provoking. Michael Lewis, New York Times bestselling author, journalist, author, Moneyball, The Blindside, The Big Short, three of his books that became movies, nominated for Academy Awards.

Let me push back on years ago, and this may in some jurisdictions still remain, Michael, that law enforcement, instead of cutting back on the number of officers, you'd have cameras that would give people tickets. Yep. And the public refused to pay them. They thought it was unfair. Right. This is a big problem. So, no, no, no, no, you're not going to catch me from a camera. It's got to be a person.

Right. And this is just kind of a cultural phenomenon that happened. In officiating, there is a gap. I don't think it's totally fair to have a nine-minute delay to get the call right. But they don't really usually. They don't nine minutes. No, but last night, for instance, replay hurts momentum. If I dunk on you and the crowd's roaring and then we go to a six-minute break or a three-minute break.

Right. That's an entertainment question, not a fairness question. Okay, that's good. Right. Okay. So you could argue that we don't need as much fairness as we're trying to get. I think that's what I'm arguing. In the name of entertainment, fine, but that's not the argument. That's not what, that's not why people are getting outraged. They're getting irritated by slowing the game down. They get outraged by perceived injustice. And the idea that getting the call right is somehow less just than getting the call wrong. That's hard to argue, I think.

No, it is. I mean, so the ball goes off the finger of the Texas Tech player. It really did go off the finger of the Texas Tech player. Yes. Right? If you feel badly about that, that call got made, it's probably because you're for Texas Tech. So at the beginning of this whole series for me, it goes back to, I used to run both my daughters of softball players. And I used to run their competitive travel ball lives.

And when I first got into it, I was just amazed how when you went to even a nine-year-old girl softball game, at the end of the game, half the crowd was furious with the umpire. And the other half of the crowd didn't have any feeling whatsoever about the umpire. They weren't feeling good about the umpire. It was like, that is like, nobody ever says, oh, I won because of the ump. It's indifferent or anger. It's indifferent or anger. So it's, it's all negative.

I mean, right. And that role, it's an interesting role because, like, the game doesn't happen without a good ref. And you could see, I can imagine a world in which, At the end of the game, we all stand up and cheer the ref because it was a hard job, and he's on the receiving end of all this stuff. And how brave of you to play that role? I think it's going to get worse due to legalize sports gambling. I'm noticing it on sports radio shows that hosts are complaining about conspiracy theories.

And I'm like, oh, no. How is this going to extrapolate that over 10 years? No, I think your point about gambling is really well taken, because people are going to have personal grievances against refs and umpires. They think that a ref cost me, you know. Cable. Cable bill. Yeah.

Yes, exactly. I think that's exactly right. You talk to the reps of the NBA. I mean, the level of physical protection they require has just increased. So they get, they have, they have police escorts in and out of the, in and out of the building. Their death threats sometimes. They get escorts back to the hotel room. It's crazy.

I mean, this is crazy stuff. But it isn't, I guess my bigger point. is, and the podcast is trying to make the bigger point, what is happening in the NBA is just a microcosm of what's happening in the largest society. Everywhere you turn, you find refs who, if they're honest refs trying to do their best, they're under the same sort of assault as NBA refs. Judges. I mean, judges feel this way. Judges, physical threats towards judges on the rise, president of the United States

coming out and attacking judges, the way you're to attack an NBA ref, as if they're acting in bad faith. And that's the other strange thing. The people who get so angry, the sort of the assumption is it's personal. You're doing it to me. It's not just a mistake. It's there's like malice involved. I mean, do you get that? When you played sports as a kid.

No, but I get it as a host. I didn't get it. I totally, I get what you're saying. The sports game, and I'm pro gambling, I think there are problems on the horizon. that you are addressing that are real, that worry me. I'm hearing gambling, there's an addictive quality, obviously. People now can't pay their, they've been, you know, I just saw a sports radio host that went to prison based on this, gambling going down that.

It's a little close to home. Yeah, the abyss. So thank God I don't have that quality. Okay, folks, it's called Against the Rules podcast with Michael Lewis. I adore your work. I think you're brilliant. and you just keep paying credits to everything you do. We all get smarter.

I wish you the very best, Michael. Thanks for having me. Okay, against the rules podcast, seek it, check it out, listen. Hour three next is The Herd. One more Herd? The Herd streams 24 hours a day, seven days a week, within the IHeart Radio app. Search Herd to listen live or on demand whenever you'd like.

Ah, here we go, hour three. What a show today. This is The Hurd. wherever you may be in, however you may be listening. I heart radio, Fox Sports Radio, and FS1. I've had so much fun today. I cried during the show today. I've been through a lot of emotions.

A lot of emotions today. I cried. Thanks, Budweiser. This tear jerkers for you. They did a thing with Dwayne Wade, who's playing his last home game tonight. And during the last hour, I'm reading it and crying. And literally had sop up this mess on my desk. It is.

It's a really nice thing. Oh, my God. I'm just going to watch Dee Wade and cry, and I'm going to go home. and I love crying. I really do. I cry at least once a week. Like happy cries? Oh, happy cries.

I'll go to YouTube and watch music and get emotional. And I, you know, I... Well, that's nice. You know what it is? As I get older, I can see the end. I mean, like of my life. It's like an hour and a half away. So now, like I said, you know, when you're in your 20s and 30s, there's no time to cry.

I got things to do, places to go. Now I can see, you know, I can see the end of the building. We're really just covering it all today, huh? I got the show. It's a little bit morbid. I think you're going to be all right. Yeah. I think you'll be around for a while.

Have you noticed the longer you work with me, the more sad and pathetic my life is? I don't think you have a pathetic life at all. I think you flew to Vegas for a few hours to see a magic show on Sunday. It was incredible. Illusion. Magic is illusion and illusion is magic. It was fascinating. Sirius XM Channel 83.

We're also on that. 15 minutes Chris Haynes on the show. We argued yesterday. Best for last. If you think Virginia had an amazing redemption story. By the way, they did. Beating in the first round last year, came all the way back, same dudes, and won at this year. We'll have that best for last talking about the great redemption stories of all time.

Well, the big news in the NFL yesterday, after I got off the air, Aaron Rogers responded to a piece by Bleacher reports, Tyler Dunn, that talked about he and Mike McCarthy's relationship. And here was yesterday Aaron Rogers firing back. The thing is about this article, you know, it's not a mystery. This was a smear attack by, you know, a writer looking to advance his career, talking with mostly irrelevant, bitter players who all have an agenda, whether they're advancing their own careers or just trying to stir old stuff up. And then what happens is the same tired media folks picking it up and talking about it.

This just emphasizes their opinion about me already. The crazy thing is there's super slanted opinions. in that piece stated as fact. And then there's quote unquote facts, which are just outright lies. Oh, my God. The NFL's most openly liberal, California progressive quarterback, went Donald Trump, bitter, smear campaign. Out to get me. He went red hat.

Aaron put it on and called everybody bitter and useless and lies. and smear attack and out to get me. How ironic yesterday was for Aaron. If you just wrote those words down, they're very Trumpian. I do not believe everybody just makes stuff up about Aaron, and they're just out to get him. I don't believe that. I don't read stories like this about Matt Ryan or Philip Rivers or Andrew Locke

or Tom Brady. I'm not saying he's the only quarterback to ever be criticized, but, oh, God, this felt so Trumpian. And by the way, it's a very good strategy. He even did, and this is what the Donald does, he goes to the favorable media. Fox News, who sort of takes care of him and sees his world. Well, where did Aaron go? Not to a Peter King.

Over to Milwaukee Radio, who just lobs up softball so Aaron can hit him out of the park. And oh, by the way, in both cases, it works. There is so much distrust in the media. I read the surveys. But it works. It galvanizes your base. Trump's approval rating this morning is 53%. The Mueller report doesn't land like the Democrats.

Liberals wanted it to and boom, more power than ever. And this morning in Green Bay and that community and everybody's rowing around him and the Green Bay media is saying, those national guys don't know what they're talking about and the Green Bay fans and the cheeseheads and Aaron played to his base. It's actually brilliant. He borrowed a page from our current president. who, by the way, I wouldn't vote for, but I don't have a problem that many of you do. It's America.

Our republic's built for that. My biggest concern's always been the erosion of the trust in the media, not the people who the media criticizes. But in this case, it was absolutely, you can see where it's coming from. Aaron Rogers is now 35, increasingly brittle, his division, and his conference is better. They are not as good as talented as the Bears. The roster isn't as good as the Vikings. and Aaron's now looking at 34, 35 years old right in the face. He had a locker room he had to seize.

He's got a new coach that nobody knows and nobody's quite sure they trust. And Aaron had to get that locker room back. And he did it. And he galvanized his base. And he went to local media and put on a red hat and everybody's out to get him and it's fake and they're bitter. And it's just some media guy trying to elevate his career. Oh, boy. Okay.

By the way, he also did. This is a great tactic. This is a tactic I've seen recently from the White House, which is throw something out there that kind of sounds right until you actually go beneath the surface. Here's something else, Aaron said. If I really dislike Mike that much, why would I resign? Knowing if I play well and we do what we do around here,

we made a play after eight three years, then I got hurt when we missed the place. It's going to be me and Mike my entire career. So if I really disliked them that much, You think I'd re-sign? Is the money that important to me? I'll tell you, it's not. Quality life is important. Oh, God, that sounds so right on the surface.

Yeah! Except for in the NFL, quarterbacks are trapped. They had a franchise tagged you for multiple years. You couldn't have gotten out if you wanted to get out. All you have to do is take a little shovel and dig a little deeper on that quote. And that, my friends, is fake news. Listen, if you want to believe this morning that everybody is just out to get Aaron, The Gunslinger book, multiple sources saying things.

They're all just out to get him. Jeff Perlman, the writer's out to get him. Tyler Dunn's out to get him. Jeff Saturday, one of the nicest guys I've ever met who played with him. Out to get him. Craig Knoll, the backup for Favre who heard stuff. Out to get it. Go for it.

I don't do a show trying to convince you how to feel. I do a show telling you how I feel. It can land how it wants to land. but yesterday was playing to your base, galvanizing it, saying the kind of things that rallies them around you. I just thought it was incredibly ironic that the NFL's most openly progressive, politically liberal quarterback dawned a red hat. Also this NFL news, and I think it's no newsworthy to a point. Stephen Jones, son of Jerry, Cowboys, says Dak Prescott's contract has to be, quote, team friendly. psychology plays a real part.

It's a real component of negotiations. Ask yourself, if Dak Prescott was on the open market, what teams would be interested at $23 to $25 to $27 million a year? Ask yourself. Cincinnati, he could sell some tickets as a former cowboy quarterback. Miami, maybe, but I'm not sure. Nobody would spend that. frankly there's not many NFL teams available.

I would start with zero that have a great roster and all they need is a quarterback. Most of the teams drafting a quarterback are a mess. They're rebuilding and they need a guy that they can build around for 10 years. But on the open market, what's he worth? He's worth what the Dallas Cowboys will pay him. But I do think DAC has one thing going for him and it's real. As Jerry Jones ages, there's a psychological edge to Dak Prescott. And that is a big part of negotiations.

Number one, Dak Prescott supported Jerry Jones during that anthem situation in Dallas. Kind of saved the season. Dak Prescott saved Jerry when Tony Romo got hurt. This fourth rounder for Mississippi State filled the stadium up. and Dak wins enough games to make the Cowboys relevant and keep them on TV. And that's always been a really big thing. Don't forget Jerry moved the Rams to L.A. He was the one that lubricated that with all the owners and Stan Cronkey.

I do think there's an argument to be made that Jerry feels a strong sense of loyalty to Dak Prescott. Because on the open market, maybe I'm wrong. I don't see anybody dropping 25 large to 28 large. I think right now the Vikings, deep down, probably regret a little what they paid Kurt Cousins, who just gets really tight in big games. But Dak's got that going for him.

Save the team after Romo. Anthem thing. Make some relevant. And I think as Jerry's aged, he appreciates that more than ever. Dak, I think, will get his contract and get his money. Chris Haynes around the corner with a new Laker-Lebron rumor. This one's coming hard and fast. That's next.

Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1, and the IHard Radio app. MDrive is a supplement. You got to use it every day. Want to feel stronger, more energy. Learn more.MDrive for men.com today. Refind your prime with MDrive. Chris Haynes, Senior NBA Insider, Yahoo Sports,

former warrior, former cab reporter, Cleveland Plain Dealer, and he is joining us today. Okay, here's the latest rumor. Uh-oh. Here it is. Laker rumors. Celtics Kyrie Irving will meet with L.A. in free agency. You buy it?

No, I think there's a solid chance. No, I'll buy that. He'll meet with them. I'll buy that. He'll sign with them. That's a totally different story. right there. And that's why, Colin, that's why I think, you know, first of all, what's your opinion of this right quick? Then I'll jump to what I think. Okay. So my opinion

is, listen, Los Angeles has gotten really crowded. The Rams are in town. You've got a second NFL team. The Dodgers are well run. You got Chip Kelly at UCLA. You have a new stadium being built. You got soccer teams everywhere. L.A.'s economy's great. Lakers run a dog fight to be relevant. Oh, crap. Now the Clippers are in the playoffs. And the clippers are going to get Kauai Leonard. And so the Lakers are leaking stuff as the playoffs going to be relevant. Okay. I'm seeing a lot of stuff happen.

Well, Rick Carlisle, a bunch of hooey. Kyrie Irving could meet with him. It's Starbucks who gives a rip. I mean, this stuff feels like leaks to me to remain relevant. Okay, well, let me say this. Let me imagine. If this were Detroit, if this were Denver, Milwaukee, and

Kyrie has promised a meeting, great, celebrate, celebrate. Because now those teams can say, well, look, This just shows that what we've been doing over the last few years is working because now players of his caliber are noticing us. Great. But this is the Lakers, Colin. A meeting?

Forget a meeting. You got to get his signature. That's what, so if this is good news, I don't know if everybody in L.A. is ecstatic about this. They expect to meet with the big stars if they become free agents. They expect that. Now, this can have tremendous backlash. You get a meeting, that's great.

You get him in. pitch him on the city, wine and dine him. But then you don't get that signature? And he still goes to Boston? Oh, my goodness. You think everybody is paranoid now. Boy, that would be a travesty if that happened. Well, that's the thing about, you know, somebody told me years ago in this business,

sleep on it. And they said, if you have a strong feeling, you're mad at a boss, you want to write a letter to the editor, sleep on it. The Lakers feel like they're sometimes very emotional. like the day the Clippers clinched the playoff spot. Rick Carlisle story. It feels like sleep on this stuff because I'm with you. First of all, I don't think it's a great look with Kyrie,

but I don't think Kyrie would leak this because Kyrie's got a basketball team headed to the playoffs. This is not coming from Kyrie's people. Kyrie Irving would not leak this. This feels like the Lakers are kind of, there's a little desperation here. They're getting ripped for the last four months since the injury to LeBron, and they're kind of throwing stuff out there.

and like the trade rumors, it backfires. I don't think this stuff plays well. And I think fans in general, Chris, are smarter than they've ever been that fans can see through this. This feels like a leak to remain relevant. Yeah, especially with Soto Media. Things are more transparent now and fans can pick up on things like this. But I will say this, you know, just to harp on it again, you know,

this isn't a mediocre franchise. This isn't an up-and-coming organization. It's the Lakers. Right. It's the Lakers. Be bigger. Be bigger than that. We expect, if there's a free agent out there, that's of notoriety, we expect you to bring

them in. But we also, when they come and you show them the city, you show them the wine and dine, magic gives them that smile. You show them the retired jerseys up there. This is not Milwaukee. You sign. Yeah, exactly. You come here, you sign.

So I still don't think the Lakers are our front-running team for Kyrie. I think it's either he stays in ball. or he goes to New York. But so, you know, they can push themselves into a pickle here. Let's slide over. I still can't wrap my brain around leaving tens of millions of dollars on the table and leaving Golden State and going to the next for KD. The weird thing about this is you have to really, if you're KD, you've got to trust

Kyrie. Because KD wouldn't, would he go to New York by himself? I don't, look, it's hard. I think this is my own personal opinion. I think Kyrie would go to New York by himself because he's from that area. Right. I don't know that K.D. would. And the thing is, Katie, he's not going over there.

He's not making a LeBron move. LeBron came over here with no insurances that they were going to be getting any players this season. He's not doing that. He's not doing that in New York. If KD goes in New York, then that means there's a handshake agreement somewhere else, that somebody else is coming along with them. By the way, when is the NBA ping pong lottery? That's during the playoffs, right?

It is. Because my takeaway is this. Are we just overlooking this? If the Knicks get the sixth pick, it's a lot different than the Knicks getting Zion. I'm Kevin Durant sitting back here. Everybody believes that he's already made up his mind. But if the Knicks get the sixth pick,

and you're talking about you want to play with a kid that, by the way, you know wouldn't even start. start for the Warriors. Like if I get Zion, I can talk myself into when I go to bed every night. I got Zion, I got me. I like Fisdale. That changes things. And also, you know, you can swap that Zion pick as well, you know, if they want.

I wouldn't. I wouldn't either. But there's still the allure of that. And then let me tell you this. So if KD goes to New York, you feel like, you feel like that wouldn't be a good move for him to go out of way, correct? I don't believe in the history of sports, leaving a game. great, a well-run organization, regardless of your talent, to an average to poorly run

organization, Pooleholst leaving and Favre goes to the Jets, it never works out. Regardless of how great you are, you can't go from Google to Larry's computer store. I don't care if you're a genius. That's the equivalent, huh? Well, I just, I don't, I tell kids all the time in my business. Chase management, not money. If you're good, there's plenty of money. there's not a ton of great management.

Okay. I don't like to move for. All right, let me tell you this, Colin. So he can accomplish two, three major things by going to New York. All right, I want to hear these. Okay, so I don't know if he's going or not, but if he went and he won a championship over there, he's accomplishing three things. First, he's bringing a championship to the Knicks, something they've longed for. He'll be a hero in that big, huge market.

Number two, he's taken down Golden State. the very team that he was on and people didn't appreciate his move over there. Certain people, some people aren't respecting what he accomplished over there. So he takes them down. And the third thing, he takes down LeBron James all over on the east.

There's a lot he can accomplish just by being over the east, and it's not bad market to live in in New York. So, you know, you add all that together. I can see what the allure is over there. Okay, so let me give you my three. I don't have them yet, but I'll make him up as we go. My three reasons not to go. Never leave great management to average management.

And I'm giving the Knicks an average label. It could be worse. Number two is it's hard to win championships in the NBA. Kevin Durant's been hurt before. Kyrie's been hurt before. Zion's body. Don't you worry about the torque in his first NBA season? Injuries play a part.

Like we're forgetting that Kyrie gets hurt. KD's been hurt. And Zion, I talked to an executive three weeks ago. He said my only concern was Zion, ligaments. His torque is like Tigers golf swing. Understandably. Okay, my third one, I don't have a third one. So those are my two big ones.

Well, I'll say this, but management-wise, they have some of the most top execs up there with Steve Mill and Chris Perry. People like Steve Mill. Yeah, so they don't know. They've kind of changed the tide over there. Now, when you talk about ownership, that's a different story right there. That's still, they have things to work out over there. But management-wise, they're as good as it come.

Okay, by the way, I'm just going to slide. this in briefly. I don't want to extrapolate too long on this. Russell Westbrook was named the most overrated NBA player yesterday. I'm mentioning it toward the end of a show, Chris. By the way, almost I would consider it a subtle

mention. It's my third, fourth question. You're smiling a lot of... I'm saying it kind of validates one iconic American sports media icon has continually been tough on Westbrook. Does it not validate my opinion, which of course is the key to this whole show as Joy is discovering, sadly, just validate everything I say hopefully. That's true.

Well, I will say this. To me, I think it speaks. I don't agree with it, but I think it speaks volumes because I think, you know, there are fans out there. There are certain media members out there who say that Russell Westbrook is a stat pattern and that, you know, teammates move out the way. to allow him to get rebounds. He only passes if it leads directly to an assist. And so the fact that his own peers are saying this and are kind of validating your claims to a certain extent.

Which is, by the way, I think it's great, but hard to play with, a little bit of a stat patter, back nine surgeries. I mean, obviously back nine of his career. I've always said this. Very few people in the NBA in their prime, I would, because I get press passes, that I'd pay to watch. Westbrook's one of them. I mean, Kauai Leonard's good.

Not a guy I'm going to fill an arena for. I'd watch him. Westbrook and his prime? Oh, I'd pay to watch him. That's why I'm surprised. He's one of the most dynamic, explosive players we have in this league, as ever played in this game. Draymond Green was tied with him. I'm going to add that.

That's no surprise, because you hear that throughout his whole career. By the way, James Hardin's on the list. Yeah. I was not a huge fan of Hardin out of college at Oklahoma City, even his first year in Houston. I've got to be honest with you. I like James now. I like what he does.

Can I add my theory? I know you like theories, Colin. I love theory. Let me add my theory on why James Hardin is on that list. I can't, I don't get the James Hardin thing. I don't get it, but I think I understand. This is my theory. Players always feel like

if they had the leeway, if they had the freedom to dominate the ball, that they can put up All-Star-type numbers. those numbers. I don't know what they think really in their head, but they really think they can put up all-star numbers. Some players who you talk to.

So I think when you look at the James Hart, when you look at Russell Westbrook and LeBron James, those are guys, I don't know the exact percentage, but 80% of times they are dominating the ball. Everything goes through them. Chris Paul used to be that way when he was the Clippers. Sometimes those type of players are hard to play with because they hold the ball for 19. And I love Chris, but Chris can't put up these offensive numbers. Hardin is uniquely gifted.

So I don't know if there's, I don't want to say there's some jealousy, but there are some players that feel like, oh, they're only putting up those numbers because they got the ball 90% of this. Okay, show that list again. This is true. The two people where I think there's jealousy is Harden and LeBron are on this list. Ben Simmons, I think it's fair to say guys like me fell in love with him, hasn't gotten better shooting.

Jimmy Butler can't get along with anybody. Draymond wants a max dealies scoring seven a game in Westbrook. The two where I sense a little jealousy is Hardin and LeBron. I mean, come on. I mean, LeBron went 28-8-8 in his worst year ever. Let's slow down. Yeah, I don't get that. That feels, listen, I think the Hardin thing, let's just be honest about it.

Why did we love Michael and Kobe as great one-on-one players? And we all have an issue with Hardin as a one-on-one player. By the way, Kobe took the air out of the ball. I mean, Michael could take the air out of the ball. Yeah. Because Hardin's not as athletic. He's not as vertical. He's not quite as dynamic, so we don't like his style.

Folks, analytically, what he's doing is, like, offensively better than Jordan. It's absurd. It's threes and layups. But I think another reason why they feel like he's over because they feel like he has a cheat code. Like, he's drawing these fouls and, you know, the way, the way. Magic didn't palm the ball? No, I understand. I understand.

And then the step back. Is it a step back or is the travel? So he's, like, kind of reinventing how to be. of such an outstanding office You know what? Steve Jobs reinventing tech. The great ones reinvent. I hear you. I mean, the great people reinvent. Hardin is, listen,

people got to lay off this combining Hardin in Westbrook. They are different players now. Hardin is all-time offense. You used to say those two players were similar. No, no, no, I felt for about four years ago, but four years a long time. By the way, four years ago with Tom Brady, he hadn't been to three straight Super Bowls.

I thought Tom was, I thought Tom and Peyton Manning's careers were reasonably close. Tom separated. Four years a long time in sports. Yes, it is. Yes, it is. I put, you know, I don't agree with it, but just from the player standpoint and what we've been hearing and how they complain to us about some of the votes we make on all NBA, I get why they came up with those players.

Yahoo Sports. Chris Hayes, senior NBA insider. Good seeing you, bud. Appreciate it. Joy with the news. No, no, no. Turn on the news. This is the herd line news.

Not to like, you know, dismiss this or anything. Why? But it was a little over the quarter of the league that participated in this poll. That's a large percentage. It's sizable, but you're, you know, you're doing the poll thing where you like project out. Well, if a quarter of the people sitting in this room were on crazy pills, wouldn't you be concerned for your health? No, I'd be concerned if they weren't on the crazy pills. And, I mean, I'm just, you know, I'm just saying it's not, it's not.

Not the whole league that's participating. And only 47% of those that participated answered that question. You're trying to minimize. And these are people that participate in polls. Like you're a person that talks to the person next to you on the airplane. Yeah. Like I'm not that person. You're a person who participates in polls?

Like when you're on the customer service and like, do you like to opt in and rate this customer service? So you think those people are loony? I'm just saying this is a very specific group that is giving these answers. So I wouldn't speculate that the entire thing. Can I tell you the one time I actually entered a poll? No, I can't. It's not for radio. I can't.

It was fascinating. I can tell you off the air. I can't tell you on because it was the most fascinating, psychological. It had great impact on my life. I can't wait to get to break. All right. So we've heard some rumors about top players turning down the bronze offers for space jam two. And now we know for sure one who did, and that is Janus.

He told ESPN's Malika Andrews, I don't like being Hollywood. I don't like all this extra drama. I just want to win. All that other stuff takes away from the game and you just spend extra energy on looking good for five seconds. I don't care about that. I just want to look good on the court,

get the win and go back home and lay on the couch and watch game film. That's it. I like this kid. I think he is in the perfect place. Milwaukee. Yes. You ever been to Milwaukee?

I've been to Milwaukee. I went to Miller Park, went to a couple baseball games up in there in Milwaukee. They got good beer and good food. Yeah. I don't have a problem with this. I don't think that every personality needs to be the same in order for him to be successful. This is who Janice is.

He's a low-key guy. He's told us he's not leaving the bucks. And he doesn't, I mean, space jam would be a huge opportunity for Janus to expand his brand and let us in on his personality and, you know, become global to casual NBA fans, if not just movie fans. And so for him to pass on this, it speaks volumes to what he feels about how he wants to handle his career. I am so jealous. I would love to be seven feet tall. Really? And just dunk all down people? What if you're seven feet tall and you can't dunk?

I would make sure I could dunk. I would make, if I was seven feet tall in the ninth grade, I would be like dunking all I would tell my mom, no school. I'm just going to go play basketball. Can you get dunk on people all day? Can you how great? No, I have literally never desired to be seven foot tall. Really? No.

I would love it. I would just, just to be able to tower over people. I feel like my life would be very different at seven foot. I think you're like... I have my own special experience being 5'2, being a short person. But you don't feel short. No, my personality makes up for my height. Yeah, and you wear heels and you've got big personality.

Right, yeah. I also sit very high. I have a cushion and stuff. All right, so there's endless amount of speculation where Kevin Durant will play next season, and much like this time last year, when we speculated about LeBron's potential move. Well, Frank Isola thinks Katie could learn a little bit about going to New York from LeBron's move to L.A. He said LeBron's first season in Los Angeles was a disaster. Doesn't mean he can't salvage the last three years of the Lakers, but year one was, as the saying goes, a dumpster fire.

If Durant is smart, he would consider the fallout from LeBron's move before making the most important decision of his career in three months. I get what Frank is saying, and I've been very hard on the New York Knicks because there haven't been run properly for a very long time. I do think of the front office that is there now is a different situation, and Fisdale is a different situation. And I also think that if you're going to learn anything from what LeBron has done in L.A., it's that if you're going to go to New York, don't go to New York and do 50 New York projects. Just go to New York and it be 100% about basketball. Don't worry about investments and getting involved with a restaurant and, you know, doing a show on the side. They just do basketball.

That is what I think would have separated this year for LeBron. And we would feel differently about everything. We would feel like the injury was more understandable. And, you know, the trade was more understandable if everything that LeBron had done this year was just about basketball. I think a lot of people feel like this was about Hollywood. Yes. And I think it turned off teammates. Right.

And what he's doing this year, he should have done in his last year. Because then everyone embraced it. Like, okay, he's making the transition into a full-on mogul, and you still have basketball to play. My wife has a great saying. People learn if you're a great example or a horrible warning. And both have an impact. Right. KD should look at LeBron if he left and say he just went into,

even if it didn't take juice and energy from him, it was a bad look. Right. Like LeBron doing all these projects. LeBron's always done a lot of projects. Yeah. This year it was just like exploded. It was like projects on steroids. It was too much.

Yeah. And I do think you're right. And look, the first person to do it usually doesn't do it the right way. And it's not a, LeBron's not a bad guy. It just didn't work optically this year. and especially the way that the season turns out. So I didn't think you can pay attention to it, but don't let it stop you from making a decision like that.

So the Heath's final home game of the season is tonight. It also means it's the final home game for Dwayne Wade in his career. And Budweiser released an emotional ad that we've talked about all day, made you cry earlier. Eyes were a little watery on air. So the premise of the ad is simple. Wade's been collecting players jerseys all season during his farewell tour. He's decorate the wall of his house.

And Budweiser told Wade that they had five more jerseyses to give him to finish his wall, invited him to American Airlines Arena to be surprised at mid-court. He doesn't know who's going to come out. And the final five spots were filled with people whose lives that Wade's actions off the court have influenced. Let's play a little clip of it. I have no idea who's coming. Like, literally, no idea. You mean so much to us. And my brother, Joaquin, loved you from the beginning. He passed away in Parkland on February 14th. Your mama went down a road, Duane, that I I didn't ever think I'd come back from. But on that road, I noticed you kept showing up.

You're not the basketball player, the legend. You're the human being that took the time and on his own, wrote my brother's name on his shoe. This is important because Joaquin wore this in his last championship. I am more proud of the man you have become than the basketball player. You are bigger than basketball. Got you again?

I just can't watch crap like that. Gotcha again. You know what, though? It is going to be a very tear-filled night in Miami. Wade was a very, I'm not just, I mean, that piece there it shows. It's not just important what these guys are to teams in the future of franchises and jobs, but being a part of the community. Well, you know, I teared up a little bit earlier.

God. There's no crying in baseball. You know, this is the downside of being old. You just cry all the time I cry a lot I'm a girl I'm not allowed to cry it's you know

we don't have we don't have permission I can't even watch Duane Wade play tonight It's going to be a very emotional night I have tears running up I'm literally You know what I honestly This is pathetic

It's okay It's okay to cry It's good to be in touch Goulet's looking at me like What happened to him This is actually like one of the proudest of my career But I didn't have like a full on breakdown. I just, I'm really having an emotional moment.

Yeah, you're having an emotional day. It's okay. It's okay. It's good to be emotional. All right. No judgment. No judgment. Joy with the news. Yeah, I'd read the spot. I can't see them. And thanks for stopping by. The herd line. Yeah, you might not be able to get a new car, it says here through the water. But you can make your car feel like it's brand new. Get a paint job. M-A-A-A-C-O. Coming up next, Virginia was an amazing redemption story. They got beaten the first round last They were a number one seed. They got beat by a 16 first time ever.

And they had to live with that all year. Oh, you choked, you're no good. Last night they came back and won. It's just a great story. And we'll take you back to some of the great redemption stories of all time. That's coming up. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific. Saturday on FS1, we've got the Rockies and Giants of Four Eastern,

followed by Robinson Kano and the Mets taking on Freddie Freeman and the Braves. It's an MLB doubleheader, Saturday on FS1 and the Fox Sports app. By the way, Robbins and Canoe isn't doing squat for the Mets, but their pitching's great. They got DeGrom and Senegarde, so they're good. I think they have six and three. Match are pitching well. Canoe is not doing anything, but he'll turn that around. That Seattle thing didn't last very long for Robinson and Canoe, did it?

No. No kidding. Best for Last today. We thought last night, one of the things about sports, you know, who's just getting all, you know, choked up about Dwayne Wade's last. game tonight and the spot Budweiser did for it. But redemption stories, like if you wrote stories in Hollywood, there's one or two things you're always looking for, conflict, the good guy, the bad guy.

Every movie's got conflict, you know? And then the other thing is redemption, which is you failed, you were humiliated, and you come back by the end of the movie, and you're a hero. And I think it's one of the most amazing things about sports. And I thought, we talk about the four or five great redemption stories in sports in recent memory. Let's go number five. Number five. I think what Virginia did last night was really amazing.

Last year, they became the first number one seed to ever lose in the history of the tournament to a number 16, UMBC. Number one seeds were 135 and 0 against 16 seeds. It was humiliating. The pressure was on

on this year. They were down 14 in their first round game. To 16 seed, Gardner Webb, they were tight. It was playing with him emotionally. And last night, after several close wins, all throughout the tournament, Virginia won their basketball title. It was a first in school history.

First in school history. By the way, Ralph Sampson was on a lot of good teams. Virginia's had a lot of good teams, and they won their first title. And I think it's unbelievable that a year ago they were humiliated, and even first round this year, they were going to get beat again as a one. a tremendous story for Tony Bennett and all the kids in Charlottesville. Number four. Yeah, I know it's hard to like the Patriots,

but after a year-long battle with Roger Goodell and the NFL over deflated footballs after the 2014 AFC championship, Brady was suspended for the first four games of 2016. It was ugly. I mean, there was like a team and a star against the league. The Patriots would win the Super Bowl, and it was not just winning the Super Bowl. They trailed 28 to 3 to Atlanta in the third quarter.

Brady had a remarkable last hour, unstoppable, and won the Super Bowl MVP to sort of stick it to the NFL. And at that time, Roger Goodell. Number three. How about the San Antonio Spurs, 2013, 2014? In the 2013 NBA finals, the Spurs were second away from winning the Super Bowl. title. The NBA had brought out the championship trophy and roped off the presentation area.

And then Miami's round hit one of the biggest shots in league history to tie it. The heat won the game in OT and won the title in game seven. The spurs would face the heat again in the finals the next season and they were absolutely on fire. They would go on the win the series in five games and essentially the domination of Miami ended the Big Three era where LeBron felt the team was getting old, it wasn't keeping up a great redemption story. Number two. LeBron James breaks the Cleveland sports drought.

In 2010, LeBron and the Cavs lost to the Celtics second round of the playoffs. A couple months later, LeBron made the decision. Took its towns to South Beach. Cavs fans would actually burn his jersey. But then in 2014, LeBron announced after winning in Miami he was coming home. In his first year, Cavs got to the finals, Kyrie, Kevin Love got hurt, LeBron lost. But then in 2016, the Cavs trailed 3-1 in the series. Maybe the best NBA finals I've ever seen.

And I'm not trying to be hyperbolic. Some of the individual games were ugly. But no team had ever come back from a 3-1 deficit. The Cavs won the next three. Cleveland's drought of 52 years with a major sports title ended. And LeBron was unstoppable. Kyrie hit the shot.

LeBron owned the series. And I mean, look at the emotion with LeBron James. Not only winning, but winning it in Cleveland. And I think one of my all-time favorites... Number one. Is the 2004 Boston Red Sox. Okay, so in 2003, the Red Sox faced the Yankees in the ALCS. John, you remember this well.

It's one of the all-time great baseball moments, not only in this series history, but in baseball history. Game 7, Red Sox up 5-2, bottom of the 8th. Grady Little left Pedro Martinez in. Yankees tied the game, sent it to extra innings. In the 11th, Aaron Boone came to the plate, walk-off Homer, Yanks to the World Series. Grady Little's contract in Boston was not renewed.

2004 next year, Red Sox faced the Yankees in the ALCS, Yankees up 3-0 in the series, then the impossible happened. The Red Sox went on to win the next four became the first team ever in baseball history to come back from an 03 deficit. And the Red Sox would win the series and end their 86-year curse

of the Bambino. I was living in that area back then. Lord. I mean, that was... Mayhem. Oh, you. You can't, I mean, again, I didn't grow up in Connecticut. You can't explain how much that meant to that region.

It was everything. You know, it's funny. People think I don't like baseball. It's the regular season, I don't watch a, you know, I'm not going to sit and watch a bunch of baseball games through their entirety. But man, playoff baseball, when you get the right teams, the right series, the right deficit, the right comeback. God, it's good.

I wish we had the Aaron Boone sound on that. It's one of the Aaron Boone's. a friend of mine now managing the Yankees. One of the all-time great guys. Was it Tim Wakefield? Was the pitcher? It was just incredible. And you know, you're not a power hitter.

I just love watching that video. God! Yeah, I went to the old Yankee Stadium and the new Yankee Stadium. Everybody's always like, the old stadium's better. Actually, the new stadiums got way better food, way better parking. It's easier to get to. I mean, just the way the setup is, it's easier to get in, get out. Everything works.

Plus, they have way better food. The old stadium kind of smelled like an old dead cat or something. It was kind of awful. But I will say this. The old stadium sounded louder. I don't understand the architecture of it. But the old Yankee Stadium was louder. And I have no idea why.

You Goulet, you would second that? Yeah, I agree. I don't know why. Because it's smaller, like in terms of feet. Like they mounted more space with the new one. So it's like wider. You know what I mean? Like the seats are wider.

They're further away. it's not like a big box like the old one was. Yeah. Tomorrow on the show, Nick Wright stops by. And so we're all excited for that. Nick makes me laugh. Maybe Nick and I will cry together tomorrow on the show. You know, we're both very human.

We just, he seems like a cryer. I think Nick cries. I get that sense from him. We'll see you tomorrow. It's the heard. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. And nobody's telling you exactly what happened.

That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo, and every episode we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the biggest moments in sports and giving you the real story behind the headline. And we're going straight to the source, the athletes themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions in the moment, and the stuff nobody gets to hear. Listen to Sports Slice on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy, Guy not quite on Humor Me with Robert Smygel and Friends, me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and headwriter, Streeter Seidel, help an Acapella band with their Between Songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert

Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Life is full of hurdles. So how do you keep you keep? Keep going. On Hurtle with Emily Abadi, we're talking with the most inspiring women in sports and wellness from professional athletes, coaches, and Olympic champions about the challenges that shape them and the mindset that keeps them moving forward. At our level, at this scale, being able to fail in front of the entire world. Like, I can do anything.

I can do anything. Listen to Hurtle with Emily Abadi on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. What's up, guys? This is Clever Taylor the 4th. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations

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