The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Aaron Rodgers, Dak Prescott, Steelers, & QB rankings

Episode Date: September 25, 2019

Colin discusses the Green Bay Packers, their match up with the Philadelphia Eagles, and QB Aaron Rodgers' comments. Colin believes the Dallas Cowboys waited too long and will have to overpay for QB Dak Prescott, why he thinks there is still hope for the Pittsburgh Steelers, and his thoughts on Pro Football Focus' QB rankings. Guests include Nick Wright, Al Michaels, Jordan Palmer, and Shawn Porter. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo, and every episode, we're cutting through the noise,

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Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smigel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter.

Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, guys? This is Clivert Taylor the Fourth. And on my podcast, The Clivert Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker, this linebacker walks up to me. He goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her.

What? Time out. Quarterback on office blue with 42. Hey, Rhett, my mama want you to weigh better. What? Hey, Miss Parker. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

Hey, it's Edwin Castro, also known as Castro 1021. And I'm Conky, his best friend and business manager. And we've got a new show called The 1021 Podcast. I'm taking you behind the scenes on how I became one of, Twitch's most popular streamers. We also love sports. And with the World Cup right around the corner, we'll be breaking down the biggest storylines

ahead of the big tournament here in the USA. Listen to the 1021 podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks for listening to The Heard Podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday. From 12 to 3 Eastern, 9 to noon Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and FS1. Find your local station for the herd at Fox Sports Radio.com stream us live every day on the IHeart Radio app by searching Herd.

You're listening to Fox Sports Radio. Oh, it should be our best show of the week. This is The Heard. Wherever you may be in, however you may be listening, in beautiful Los Angeles. We're on IHeart Radio, Fox Sports Radio, on FS1. The legend, the stud muffin, Al Michaels. The ageless Al Michaels in one hour from now,

if you're listening on radio, the voice itself, one of the great voices in American sports of my lifetime. Joy Taylor joining me as well got our Green Bay Packer kind of green thing going on to little eagle it's actually actually

you know what it's Eagles it's closer to the Eagles it's closer to the Eagles I like it a lot and you've got your 1958 glamorous Hollywood

you like this hairstyle I think you can do I've never I've never ever met a person who has every day a different look you know what it's the she's an amazing

hairstyle she does both our hair every day and she's a great job. Yeah, mine's gray and floppy. There's not much to do here. It's great to have you part of the show. So tomorrow night, it is one of the, it'll be really the best game this weekend is actually on Fox tomorrow night. Yes. It's Carson Wentz and Aaron Rogers. They're kind of similar guys. A little bit of baggage. We don't know they always get along with teammates. We think they're great, but should win a little more. But I think it's very fascinating with Aaron Rogers. I don't think this is a huge game for Aaron Rogers. You know,

they're undefeated. Aaron could lose. It's okay. Carson Wentz, it's a very big game. But I, you know, for about eight to ten years, Aaron Rogers, and I judged this a lot, got me to a television set. When I wake up on Sunday morning, who gets me to a TV set? And Aaron Rogers and Tom Brady, and I'd said this before, Tom's better. Aaron was more fun to watch than Tom Brady. But I turn on my TV now. Patrick Mahomes is more dynamic than Aaron Rogers. Baker Mayfield is more controversial.

Lamar Jackson's more fascinating. Tom Brady wins more, and Dak Prescott is more debated. Aaron Rogers is transitioning. The Packers now don't need him to play great to win. They don't rely on him offensively as much. They run the football. The management has pushed back a little bit on his condescending occasional arrogance. Even Aaron Rogers said something a day ago.

He knows he's transitioning. It's time for us to do our part. on offense moving forward. We're going to play some, you know, a stretch of really good football teams. And at some point, you know, we can't expect our defense to shut everybody down. They have been. But at some point, the offense is going to have to wake up and start making some place. When is the last time, Aaron Rogers said, you know, the defense is great.

We're not getting it done. It's a new Green Bay Packer organization. You saw this at the end with Brett Farm. And I'm not saying Aaron's retiring in a couple years, but I'm not the only person to see this. He was the voice and face of State Farm for eight years. Patrick Mahomes now joins him on the commercial. The Cleveland Browns, controversial Baker-Mayfield, not Freddie Kitchens, have been on two national TV games. We're in the transition period.

Lamar's more fascinating. Patrick's more dynamic. Baker's more controversial. Dax's more debated. And Tom wins more. And statistically, Drew Brees is better. That's not a knock, but this past weekend, when I got up on Sunday morning, I wanted to watch Lamar Jackson and Patrick Mahomes. I did.

And then I turned on Kyler Murray and Kyle Allen, and I couldn't turn the game off for 90 minutes. And then Sunday night, Baker Mayfield got me to a television. It's not that Aaron Rogers isn't great, but what I'm loyal to, you know, I always say this. You know, people, I'm going to lose weight. how come by February my gym is still empty? Everybody goes in January for a New Year's resolution. By February, my gym's empty. It's the same seven of us working out.

Is that I am loyal to what I consume. And what I'm consuming now, tomorrow night is the first time in over a year, maybe two years, that the game I can't wait to watch and the quarterback I can't wait to watch is Aaron Rogers. And I think everybody now realizes some of these previous problems are certainly on Mike McCarthy, But as Sam Monson said yesterday at pro football.com, PFF.com, and they just look at data, folks.

Some of it's on Aaron. I think their defense has dramatically improved, but the offense, not that much has changed. Rogers has still remained the same kind of guy. He's still tending towards the conservative end of the spectrum. He's not putting the ball in harm's way that much. And, you know, that offense has not transformed him the way a lot of people thought it might. I think Aaron Rogers is a bigger root cause of the issues there than people have thought over the past few seasons. Still love Aaron, but tomorrow night will be the first time in a couple years when that's,

I want to watch Aaron Rogers more than any quarterback this weekend. By the way, second Russell Wilson Sunday against the next Russell Wilson, Kyler Murray to me is fascinating. We've got a big change coming in the NFL. These quarterbacks are a little smaller, they run a little more, it's very fascinating. So I want to talk about Dak Prescott. And I've always said this about DAC. I didn't buy him initially.

I did not officially buy into him until they gave him Amari Cooper last year. And he went seven and one down the stretch and played very well in big spots in the fourth where I was like, and I think I'm pretty good at this quarterback thing. You know, generally I've missed on a couple. But most of the time, you know, the guys I didn't like even when they were winning Vince Young, Tim Tebow.

I was like, I don't buy it. I think I've mostly been right on this stuff. But I didn't buy Dak. until at the end of last year. He went 7-1 with Amari Cooper, who's a real grown-up, is a real man. He's not a child.

It's not some of the Des Bryant nonsense you're dealing with anyone with him. And I'm like, okay, it's not about Zeke. This is Dax team, and you give Dack legitimate outside perimeter players who work as hard as Dack and you can win games.

But I'm looking at some stats with Dack and it's interesting. So Dack's average, his first three years in the league, his average season, he threw for 3,600 yards, 22 TD's eight picks. That's very Marcus Marioata.

That's not what you want. This season, he's on pace to throw for 4,900 yards, 48 touchdowns, and 10 interceptions. And what does it tell you that he doesn't have a contract? It tells you that Jerry and Stephen Jones, they didn't know this was possible. And let me defend them. I can certainly make a legitimate argument that Jerry and Stephen Jones have done a better job drafting talent over the last five years than any organization in football. Their O-Lines great.

Their D-Lines good. They've got a corner. They got Zieg. They found DAC in the fourth round. I mean, they got stars everywhere. They have the best young linebackers in the NFL. Two of them. So it's not like Jerry and Stephen don't know talent.

They've been exceptional at moving off players, drafting players, acquiring free agents, and giving up the right picks. But if they didn't know. known DAC was this, they'd have paid him a year ago. Because they paid Jalen Smith early, and they paid Zeke two years early, and they paid Demarcus Lawrence early, and they're going to pay Vanderesh early. They didn't pay their quarterback early because they didn't think this was possible. And that's the real thing.

Listen, Philadelphia, here's the thing with teams. Teams see all the practice footage. They see the interactions. They see the 22 film. Philadelphia, even with Carson Wentz hurt and losing, signed him early because they're watching all the film. Jerry and Stephen have watched every DAC practice, every piece of 22 film, and they wake up this morning, and those were $35 million a year stats. And they didn't want to pay them more than 28.

And it tells you DAC is a surprise. Now, by the way, what is this tell you about DAC? I think it, and I think I'm pretty good at this quarterback thing, I think it tells you about Dak, Baltimore did not pay Joe Flacco, and they got burned. Why? Because Baltimore watched Joe Flacco. And Joe Flacco had a winning playoff record. Joe Flacco wasn't a bum.

Joe Flacco was winning divisions. Joe Flacco had a winning playoff record. He had a winning road playoff record. And Baltimore, one of the smartest organizations, also like Dallas, drafts the hell out of this league. They didn't give Joe Flacco money. Why? Because they watched all the practices, and they watched all the film.

And they were like, we think it's the roster. 65, 70% and 30% flacko, and they got burned, and eventually they were paying him too much and moved off him. And so what Jerry is telling you, without telling you, is they think he's a little more flacco than he is Carson Wentz. And it's very hard to doubt the Dallas Cowboys when it comes to young talent. They're great at it. I mean, Jesus, they've had the best offensive line in the league for six years. They have the best young linebackers. They have, they have, New England doesn't have this money star players. Kansas City doesn't have this money star players. So that doesn't mean that Dax's not really talented.

But it's telling you they rolled the dice on this. And the same reason Baltimore stalled and got burned is the same reason Dallas did. Is that when you watch the film and you watch the practice, you know, it doesn't blow you away. It doesn't. And quarterback is hard. And I've always told you, my favorite part of Dack is the podium. That's really my favorite part of Dack is that he's great at the podium. he sounds like a leader.

He had to deal with the nonsense with Des and replacing Tony Romo and the anthem controversy and the Zieg judicial issues. I mean, he had a lot of noise and he handled it like a good CEO would, a good grown-up would. And, I mean, this is why I love Russell Wilson. He had to deal with Richard Sherman and these defensive players dropping a story at the other network I used to work at and they got banged in the press. and then he had to deal with that Super Bowl interception and all the fallout. And Russell Wilson was like, you know, man upstairs is the one that controls this.

I'm good. And so just interesting with Dak is as smart as Jerry and Stephen have been, they didn't think this was possible or they would have paid him because they're going to get burned financially. They're probably going to pay a quarterback who I like love money. Really, I mean, you want to pay the quarterback. fact, you love Mahomes, love money. Russell Wilson, love money. Most guys in this league you won't pay like money.

I like you a lot and I'm going to pay you like money, but they're going to pay him love money. Kirk Cousins got love money. They liked him. Matt Ryan got love money. They liked him. Russell Wilson, I can pay love money to. Brady, I could pay love money too.

Mahomes, Andrew Luck, I can pay love money. I've said with that, I'd rather pay, I like to like money. But what's totally telling you is they just didn't, they didn't see it. They saw Van deresh, eight-man high school football in Boise State. They saw a star. Dak, they didn't draft him to the fourth round, and they still didn't buy him when he was winning. Much like Baltimore and Flacco. Coming up next, there was an NFL team that made a move last night, and people are freaking out.

And it's from Joy's hometown. And it is very easy this morning to bang on that team. But I get what the Steelers are doing. And I'm going to defend them on this. And it's actually very, very smart. The Steelers trade away another draft pick. and they're getting crushed by everybody. It's really smart, and I'll tell you why, coming up.

Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1, and the IHeart Radio app. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the plays, the controversies,

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Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of Mental Health Awareness Month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possess. of the thing and we're still chasing it and we don't know when we've done enough because people scoreboard watch life becomes about wins and losses Steve Burns Dustin Ross because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth or are you a good person because you're afraid because that's two different intentions bro absolutely and that that's two different levels of trust I want you to just really be a good person join me Keer Gaines is we have real conversations about healing growth fatherhood pressure and purpose on my new

podcast, Learn the Hardway. Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Learn the hard way and listen now. Hey everyone. It's Ryder Strong and Will Ferdell from PodMeets World. And now the Podmeets Twirled podcast. We're two men who were completely clueless to reality TV, who now have covered Dancing with the Stars, traitors, and we're gearing up for the season finale of Survivor. So yeah, now we're experts. I know we annoyed a lot of our listeners by our severe lack of survivor knowledge. That is the point of the show. I'm just going to remind you. I have watched some Survivor. I obviously haven't watched enough. Did people not like it? Like what was just because we? Yeah. We'll be recapping the big conclusion in the 50th season from the final attempts at

gameplay to the desperate pleas of finalists to a bunch of ha, ooh, ha, ha, ooh, ha, oh. Again, we are experts. So make sure to tune in to Pod Meets Twirled for all our Survivor 50 takes. Listen to PodMeets world on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, guys? This is Clivert Taylor the 4th. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee.

We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker, this linebacker walks up to me, he goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Time out. Quarterback on office blue of 42. A rep. My mama want you to wave at her.

What? Where's she at? Hey, Miss Parker. Listen to the Cliverts show on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Guys, don't you use your girlfriend shampoo or your wife shampoo. Your hair's your hair. It's yours. Get your own Dove Men Plus Care.

Range designed to give your care of the hair and your hair of the care it needs. Go to Walmart. Get it at Walmart. Dove. So when you buy a house. Does location matter? When you rent an apartment, does location matter? When you buy a condo, does the neighborhood matter?

Yeah, yeah. If you bought a restaurant or built a restaurant with location matter. Yeah, okay. If you're thinking about retirement and you want to buy a piece of land and build a home, would the location matter? Yeah, anytime there's an acquisition, what is around you is paramount to the decision. Nobody wants to live in a bad neighborhood. Nobody wants to build a restaurant and a lousy location.

Nobody wants to have a piece of land with no views. So when you make an acquisition of any type, location, location, location. The same thing yesterday. The Pittsburgh Steelers gave away another draft pick. They gave up a fifth round draft pick for a tight end currently in the league named Nick Vanette. Not a great player, but he's a good player. He's productive, right? And everybody's like, whoa, stupid!

And give me away your future! By the way, you do realize what you get in the fifth round. Nick Venet. At least this Nick Vinette has been in the league, won't be a whiff, and can produce. So they gave up what you would get in the draft with experience. But Pittsburgh, why acquiring this, looked at the land and the location. And let's start with the AFC. Pittsburgh's 0-13.

You're bailing on him. There are six 0-and-3 teams in the NFL. Five are in the AFC. Last year, the Houston Texans went 0-and-3 and won a division, and Indy went 1 in 5 and got to the playoffs. What do they have in common? They play in the AFC. The AFC, O'N-3, is not a death sentence.

Mark Slarath talked about this yesterday in our show. So this is the first thing. The Steders acquiring a player, looked at the AFC. There's six teams that go in the playoffs in the AFC. You know how number seven is right now? Mathematically, the Oakland Raiders. They're one and two.

There are ten teams right now that are one and two or less. So either one and two or oh and three. Ten teams. So that means that everybody is theoretically still in it. Okay. So they look around, location, location, location. AFC's a mess outside of New England, Kansas City. And then they look at their division.

All right, let's look at that land. Let's look at that location. Well, Cincinnati can never beat Pittsburgh in their week. Cleveland right now is a hot mess with Freddie Kitchens. Bad O lines, Steelers do have a good pass rush. And Baltimore, Pittsburgh says, well, hell, we play him in eight days. We might as well figure it out now. We play them in eight days.

So let's get the guy in house. Let's get the guy in. house we need. So they look at the AFC and they're like, you can go on three here. They look at their division, teams they've mostly beaten the last seven years. And then finally they look at their schedule.

And oh my God, it's the strangest thing you've ever seen. In the next seven weeks, they have five home games a buy and then they play in the smallest stadium in the league Charger stadium, which will be 70%

Steeler fans. Of course they make the move. Their division still winnable. And as much as I like Lamar, we don't know. This is not a DAC where we see the numbers. The guys started half a season. Cincinnati, Cleveland's a hot mess. They look at the AFC and say,

Texans started 0 and 3 and won the dang division. Philadelphia, Indianapolis started 1 and 5, and then look at their schedule. Folks, listen to their next seven weeks. Cincinnati at home, Baltimore at home, at the Chargers might as well be a home game by Miami at home, Indy at home with the backup quarterback, and the Rams at home. Of course you give up a fifth round pick for a tight end who is exactly what you'd get with a fifth round pick.

And he is at least in the NFL, half the fifth round picks aren't three years in, and he's productive enough for them to make the move. Totally defend the Steelers. I'm not going to say it's going to work. saying this piece of land is going to be worth a billion dollars. I'm not saying that. It may not work. But when you acquire something, I get the reasoning behind the acquisition. Division, conference, schedule, I do the exact same thing. Joy with the News.

No, no, no, no, no. Turn on the news. This is the Herd Line News. The Patriots travel to Buffalo's, take on the bills on Sunday. Buffalo fans call themselves Bill's Mafia. Yes, they do. You know about Bill's Mafia? Yeah. And for getting a pretty rowdy. And Bill Belichick is no stranger to the Bill's passionate fans.

And he said he's prepared for their intensity. He said it's a very intense crowd. They're vocal, totally into it, and have great passion for the game. Some stadiums don't have quite the intensity, Buffalo does. They have no other agenda. They're there to watch the game. It gets very loud. It does.

And by the way, now it's still good weather, but sometimes it's loud, windy, and cold. and that makes it even louder. Yeah, I haven't been to Buffalo. My mother and my aunt have gone there to see Jason play. This is way back in the day. The two of them are pretty rowdy themselves. What do they say? They have some stories.

My mom could probably write a book about fan interactions. She would always wear Jason's jersey, a giant, like, game-length Jason jersey that went down, like, her knees, and the back of it said mom on it. So she may have been asking for it. A little bit, yeah, yeah. Especially going to Buffalo, but they do have great fans. Their defense ranks first in fewest yards allowed per drive, third in touchdown percentage per drive, and first in percentage of three and outs for. So their defense is playing amazing this year.

And right now, New England's got a left tackle issue, a fullback issue, a wide receiver issue, and no tied end. So it's going to be, by the way, Vegas sees this game as very close. This is not going to, I'll make a bet now. New England does not get in the 30s, and I'm not sure they get more than the mid-20. This is a very interesting game. It's really, this is one of these games. Biggest game, by the way, in Buffalo in over 15 years.

It's going to be crazy fun. As Bill Belichick said, intense. Case Keenham had a rough night, turned the ball over five times, and the Redskins lost of the Bears. It got so bad Monday night that fans wanted Dwayne Dwayne Haskins to take over the quarterback, but head coach Jay Gruden isn't ready to turn to the rookie just yet. The season's not lost. It's not over.

I know everybody wants to say it's over, and the season's over. Go ahead and play Haskins. But we feel confident we could turn this thing around. You know, so, you know, I'm out here at practice every day. We're out here at practice every day evaluating everybody. If we feel like Duane gives us the best chance to win in a coming game, we'll definitely put Dwayne in there.

If we feel like it's Colt, when he gets healthy, it could be cold. But right now we feel like it's Case Keenham, and we're going to move forward with them this week. By the way, I don't know what their schedule is, but I tried to do what the Giants did. I'd find a team without a lot of pro bowlers on defense and put him in. That's what the Giants did. They just figured out, oh, we don't want him to play against Dallas on the road.

Let's get him Tampa with no pro bowlers. It's kind of a different situation for the Giants in Washington, though, because a lot of people feel like this is a very important year for Jay Gurdon as far as keeping his job. So he's going to try and win as many games as possible, not necessarily develop Dwayne Haskins to the future and build the franchise for the next step. He claims he doesn't feel like he's coaching for his job, but... Aren't you coaching for your job in Washington every year?

Seriously, the opposite of the Steelers. Like, you're coaching for your job every year. I mean, I don't think, I mean, other than New England's, New England and the Steelers are pretty unique in their coaching, their head coaching situations. Like, you never really feel like, even if the Steelers have a horrible season this year and can't turn it around, no one feels like Tomlin is in danger of losing his job. I mean, Ben is out.

He's going to be back next year. Like, there's different circumstances. in this situation. I don't think we're going to see Dwayne Haskins this year, no matter how bad it gets, because he's just going to keep trying. It's funny. I think Jay's a pretty good coach. I have nothing to back that on, because the wins aren't there. But there's a lot about Jay Gruden

I like. I mean, look at how many good coordinators he's developed. There's a lot of guys that come out of that whole Jay Gruden tree, and you're like, they're a lot of Shannahan's and Sean McVeys on that thing. I mean, I don't think it's really fair to evaluate a lot of coaches based simply off of wins, as silly as that sounds. There's a lot of factors that go into it. If you look at the big picture, every season has

a story, every franchise has a owner. Like there are a lot of factors that go into whether you can coach your full potential. Pete Carroll's been fired twice. Andy Reid's been fired. Belichick's been fired. I mean, this league is, you got a crazy, crazy owner, bad breaks, don't get the right quarterback. Right. Finally, speaking of all of that, the Browns have not looked good so far this season. And head coach Freddie Kitchens may already be on the hot seat. Bleacher reports, Mike Freeman, spoke with two NFC assistant coaches who think kitchens will be will end up being a scapegoat if the Browns can't turn things around. They think the media and the Browns themselves overestimated how good the team would be

this year. One of the coaches said it's not all Freddie's fault, but if this blows up, he will get all of the blame. Well, you can't blame Baker because he is, when LeBron left, Baker's the city. You can't fire players like that. That's the general rule. Of course, you can cut guys. You're not going to cut Baker.

Isn't it funny? They're not going to get a new owner. You know, it's so funny now, all the Brownie fans who thought we were all haters, if you go to their sites and their Twitter accounts, they're all saying what all of us did in the summer, which is there's talent here, but it's going to take a long time to develop. They're saying now what we all told you was going to happen.

And not just me, every guy I respect in this business, every woman I respect was all like, nine and seven, with a bunch of wins late, feels kind of reasonable in the weaker AFC. If they were in the NFC, Browns aren't a playoff team in the NFC. If the Browns were in the NFC, I'd have them at 6 and 10 or 7 and 9, that's what I would have. But in the AFC, in a division with Cincinnati, that's two wins.

And I think they can split. Yeah, I mean, you can split with everybody else. But this is not a top. When I didn't put them in my initial herd hierarchy, people that I was crazy. I'm like, how in God's name can you put this team in the top 10 if you have the NFC? I mean, I thought they had the potential this year for a wild card. That's it. And I'm battling for it.

Not like secure. Look, my only issues with the Freddie Kitchen situation, because we don't know what Freddie Kitchens is, is that we probably won't find out what Freddie Kitchens is because it feels like Freddie Kitchens was hired so that he could be controlled by the front office. And anytime that that is, and I'm not saying that's the case because I don't have any information on that,

but anytime that is the case, it never works. Because you have to put people in position who are the best at that position and then empower them to be successful. You have to delegate. That's the way that it works. If you have a front office that wants all the credit and wants to control everything, they're not down there on the field. They're not the ones interacting with players.

It doesn't work. It's an ego trip. It fails every single time. I'm not saying that's a situation. But if Freddie Kitchens ends up not getting his due, doesn't able to have his time to develop, then that's what it was. Who in the world thinks Freddie Kitchens is going to be here for his entire contract? Nobody in the world, not even Mrs. Kitchens. There's no evidence to.

If there's a Mrs. Kitchens. There's no evidence to prove otherwise. And this is a very important next couple weeks for the eight. AFC North because all the AFC North teams play each other this weekend, rounds at Ravens, bangles at Steelers, and then the next two weeks for the Ravens are at the Steelers, and then they play the Bengals. So we could figure a lot of things out for the rest of the season in the next couple weeks.

Yeah, joy with the news. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by. The Hurd-Ly News. You know, I said, I wake up on a Sunday morning. Patrick Mahomes is the most dynamic. Lamar's the most fascinating. Dax the most debated.

Tom Brady's the legend. is the most controversial. Kyler is this weekend facing Russell Wilson, so Russell's facing the next Russell. I haven't woken up in two years on a Sunday and thought, I got to watch Aaron Rogers. Now, tomorrow feels like the first time

where it's like, okay, that's the best game on the docket. Via the Coward Global Satellite Network, Nick Wright, my buddy's joining us. Nick, I feel like Aaron's in a transition period. Injuries, losses, arrogance, that on Sunday, he's not who

I wake up to see. It's Patrick. And I'm not banging on Aaron, but I do feel like they run more. It's more defense. He's no longer the golden boy. Is that fair? Is that fair? Well, that part's fair, but no quarterback at any point in NFL history would be the golden boy if they were up against this version of Patrick Mahomes, who just happens to be playing the position at the highest level it's ever been played by any person. It's not hyperbole. It's not recency bias. to the stats and to your eyes. But I think this is more about Rogers and less about Mahomes.

So set aside maybe the most talented quarterback ever, Mahomes, to talk about maybe the second most talented quarterback ever Aaron Rogers. The numbers are on your side here, Colin. This year, while the Packers are 3 and 0, they're averaging 270 yards of offense, 19 points, and their 30th in the league and third down conversions. Maybe I am holding on to a lost time,

but I am still, holding on to hope and belief that Aaron Rogers is not out of his prime, that Aaron Rogers missed a preseason game he was supposed to playing because his back tightened up, and was supposed to play in the next one, but the field in Canada was shoddy, that he's a little rusty, there's a new offense, there's still getting these young wide receivers into the flow of things. The reason I picked the Packers to go to the Super Bowl was because I loved their defense,

and I believe Rogers at some point this year will get back to being Aaron Rogers. But much like I heard you say of Jay Gruden, I can't prove it. I just believe it. I can't prove in the last three years that Aaron Rogers is still one of the three best quarterbacks in football. I just truly believe it. And I think we'll see it starting Thursday night. New England seemed unbeatable, but might as well gloat.

You pick Buffalo to make the playoffs. I have them number seven in my, yes, I think in the history of the NFL, if you have a great staff, they do. If you have a really good defense, they do. And if you've upgraded your weakness O-Line, you're fighting for a playoff spot. I think they can beat New England this weekend. So go ahead and gloat. What did you see that most of us did not?

Well, I saw a easy path to 3-0, which with a young team, with a very raw quarterback, getting the season started off right is critically important. I saw what the whole world sees right now, which is nine wins going to get you in the playoffs. I saw Chargers and Steelers teams that I didn't think would win their division and I didn't think would be wildguard teams. So who are you going to put there? And now you do have a really intriguing matchup with the Patriots. The Bills can't win the division, obviously. But can they beat the Patriots at home?

Maybe. The paths have been great this year, no doubt. They've also played literally the worst schedule imaginable outside of the Dallas Cowboys in the in the league thus far. So I, there's a reason that Bill Belichick didn't want to cut Antonio Brown even after those witness intimidation texts came out. There's a reason they let him practice that Friday and then for some reason or another waited to cut him until Friday afternoon.

It's because he knows offensive line, IR center, IR left tackle, fullback on IR, first round pick, wide receiver on IR, Edelman now's got a check. injury. Josh Gordon's banged up. They thought they needed Antonio Brown. The defense is spectacular in New England. The offense, not what it was last year. And so, yeah, I wouldn't be shocked if this is the bill's up 20 to 17 going into the fourth quarter and we see if Brady can pull it out. Now, whether or not, you know, I've, I've always said Cam is Westbrook. I can't deny his iconic stature, his talent, I'd pay to watch him play. He's had one great season. where he got his team to the finals, but I don't think he elevates players around him.

So instead of arguing, I don't like Cam as much as you do, I'm going to pose this, that it is getting easier for the new owner of Carolina to move off Cam Newton. Kyle Allen's good. Cam's not winning. Injuries are not. You could bail on him after the season, and it wouldn't cost you a ton. It wouldn't be a ridiculous cap hit. They've got a bunch of young receivers and backs.

Kyle Allen's young. and the new owner doesn't give a rip about an MVP season when he was a co-owner of the Steelers. Could I at least argue that if Kyle Allen over the next six games and look at it, he faces a lot of average secondaries, goes five and one. You can at least in Carolina bring back Cam end of the year, tougher schedule struggles. It's getting easier, Nick, to move off Cam in the next year. Oh, of course it's getting easier. We have to see if Cam gets healthy. But you threw in there at the end, a yada yada that I'm not ready to just concede.

Kyle Allen, Kyle Allen's going five and one. Kyle Allen, who the Carolina Panthers had so much faith in after having him in the building last year, after he starts week 17. They go out and draft Will Greer in, I think, the fourth round of this year's draft. I've never seen a quarterback, especially not a blue chip prospect. and Kyle Allen had been a blue-chip prospect since high school gets so much run over one really good game against one really bad defense in Arizona.

Let me see Kyle Allen go five and one first. Now, Carolina might want to move off of Cam, and if he doesn't get healthy, then I will understand that to a degree. But we do not live in a world with enough quality quarterbacks where Cam Newton is not clearly win healthy an upper half at the very least starting quarterback in this league, And Kyle Allen might be the third best quarterback on the Panthers roster.

Maybe they discovered something in the sixth round a couple years ago, and he's just now blossoming into the player that once was the number one high school football player in the country. But I think nationally and certainly regionally in the Carolinas, a lot of the Kyle Allen love is actually Cam Newton hate being disguised as Kyle Allen love. Yeah. Because I don't know if people really love this guy. or they're just ready and wanting someone different than camp. Does it bother you before you go?

I'm looking at the PFF rankings this morning. They ranked all the quarterbacks. And it must, it must irk you to realize. It's almost. Tom Brady is number one and Patrick Mahomes is six. Does that make you angry? Yeah. I like the folks at PFF.

I know some of those guys. I think it's a great story. Some blokes from Ireland start a company. It's now a multi-conglomerate. I think it's great. But I don't have a lot of rules in life, but here's one of them. If I have a fancy algorithm, a nice, cool formula, and I input all my data, and it spits out to me that there have been five quarterbacks better than Patrick Mahomes, you throw out the algorithm. This is along the same lines of your former employer once upon a time created a new way to grade quarterbacks, and it was going to revolutionize things.

And the algorithm they had said, the third greatest quarterback game of all time was a Charlie Batch game where he had 160 yards passing. That's when you know there's a fly in the soup, people. And Patrick Mahomes, having played the Jags and the Ravens and being first in rating, first in yards, first in touchdowns, first in everything, is the sixth best quarterback. Your rating system stinks. And I say that respectful. Nick Ryan first things first. You have yourself a good Wednesday there, chap. It's good to seeing you, buddy.

You too. Talk to you later. Yeah. He makes a very compelling point. I did think of Nick when I saw that this morning. I saw the first thing I thought. Maybe because I don't think he would freak out about Brady being first, but DAC being second. Yeah.

That's funny. That made me laugh. Okay. So pro football focus came out. They ranked all the quarterbacks. And by the way, they do this on, I mean, they grade everything. Interceptions? not always the quarterback's fault.

Tough throws, easy. They don't give you credit for every completion. It is incredibly thorough. And I can't top what Nick just did. Al Michael's top of the hour. But I will tell you what I took out of the grading system. And it wasn't the top guy or the bottom guy. It was two guys in the middle.

That's next. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending. opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in.

I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise. Breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports Slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them.

Listen to Sports Slice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slic Life 12 and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations. with so many incredible guests. I'm talking. Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing,

we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross. Because you find it important to be a good person

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And now the PodMeets Twirled podcast. We're two men who were completely clueless to reality TV, who now have covered Dancing with the Star, traders, and we're gearing up for the season finale of Survivor. So yeah, now we're experts. I know we annoyed a lot of our listeners by our severe lack of survivor knowledge. That is the point of the show. I'm just going to remind you. I have watched some Survivor.

I obviously haven't watched enough. Did people not like it? Yeah. Yeah. We'll be recapping the big conclusion in the 50th season from the final attempts at gameplay to the desperate pleas of finalists to a bunch of, Ha, ooh, ha, ha, ooh.

Again, we are experts. So make sure to tune into Pod Meets Twirled for all our Survivor 50 takes. Listen to PodMeets Twirled on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, guys? This is Clivert Taylor the 4th. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game.

This linebacker, this linebacker walks up to me, he goes, A ref, my mom won. want you to wave at her. What? Time out. Quarterback on office blue with 42. Hey, Brett. My mama want you to wave at her. What?

Hey, Ms. Parker. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Welcome back. This Saturday, by the way, USC is at Washington. It'll be one of my marquee three picks. Discover card key matchup. Go further than never. Discover at Miles card.

spend, spend, spend. They automatically match your first year's miles. Match it, $35,000, become 70,000, Discover.com slash travel, new card members only. So PFF did come out with it. It's all over the debate shows in America today and all over the talk shows. PFF, pro football.com, pro footballfocus.com. They rate every quarterback. And again, they do this on big time throw percentage and turnover worthy plays and adjusted

completion rate. This is film stuff. This is film. They grade every offensive lineman, every quarterback. and it's not every interceptions. The quarterback's fault. They play calling matters, where you throw it, how hard the throw is, how good the defense. I mean, they really great everything.

So the first thing is, pat myself in the back, they have all the guys I like near the top and the guys that I defend. Deshawn Watson, Russell Wilson, Carson, Wend, Stack Prescott, and Derek Carr are all the top seven. So the guys I like and the guys I don't like are all at the very, very bottom. Andy Dalton, James, Winston, Tribusky, Kirk Cousins. So, yeah, there I feel pretty good about it, right? Like the guys I'm not into, and some of those guys are winning games, they have at the bottom,

and the guys I like and defend Derek Carr. I don't understand why the Raiders are talking about bailing on Derek Carr. He's good. I don't get why you don't get the Sean Watson people. He's good. But what really jumped out to me is that right in the middle of the pack, Baker Mayfield is still ahead of Lamar Jackson. And that goes counterintuitive to what you would think, right? One's winning, one's losing, one doesn't throw any interceptions, one's a turnover machine.

And there's been this whole thing, you know, how can anybody doubt Lamar Jackson and how can anybody, and one of the reasons I like PFF, because it's not about agendas, it's not about nonsense, it's just about data. And I'm a data guy. I'm not into, you know, media falling in love and media has agendas and media wants this guy. Good God, the media just couldn't get over Russell Westbrook. The data was right in front of you. And then one day he loses a playoff series and the entire country's like,

All right, Colin's a jerk, but he's right on that one. Just watch the data, get out of the emotion, business, stop rooting for people, players, and cities. And so what they're telling you is, also, Josh Allen is 21st. So what they're telling you that Josh Allen and Lamar are five and one, and the numbers are great, but PFF's like, this is not Baker's fault. And that's what I said yesterday. Listen, of course, Lamar and Josh deserve some credit for what they're doing. and Baker deserves some criticism for what he's not doing. But this is a Freddie Kitchen issue.

This is a John Dorsey issue. I have banged on Baker Mayfield more than any sports talk show host in America. People get mad at me for this. But when I watch Cleveland, there are limitations to Baker Mayfield. He's a 5 and 11.5-4-840 guy. It's not that great of an athlete. I think he's a pocket thrower, but he's small. So he runs outside a lot, and he's not very fast.

I ran a 47-940 in high school. I'm not joking. He runs a 484 with better nutrition and better strength training than I had 35 years ago. He's not that great of an athlete. I don't think he's as good an athlete as Johnny Mansell. I don't think he's as good an athlete as Tim Tebow. And I never thought Tebow was a great athlete. I thought he was a great kid, a great leader.

So he's not Dak. I don't think he's not nearly as good as Tribisky as an athlete. He's not Andrew Locke. We know he's not Cammer Big Ben. I just don't think he's that good of an athlete. I think he's a small average 4-840 guy. So I've been banging on Baker. for years. But what PFF is telling you, Lamar and Josh are getting a ton of help here,

and Baker's getting none. And that's what they're telling you. And Peter King addressed this yesterday and Freddie Kitchens. If I could give Freddie Kitchens one piece of advice, if he wants to call the plays, then he needs to give the authority of things like clock management and some other things. He needs to think about giving that away. And I'm fine with him holding on to offensive play calling. He's good at it. He was terrible on Sunday because I think he's thinking about too many things. A year ago, he was the running backs coach. And now he's got the biggest job of them all, and he's got the weight of great expectations on his shoulders. So it's kind of PFF is telling you, our system, and, you know, the guys that look like they're good. And PFF and I don't agree.

They don't like Darnold nearly as much as they like Baker. And I like Darnold over Baker, because I think He's bigger, stronger, more athletic. And I think he's, frankly, I think he's more of a grown-up. It's why I said this two weeks ago, and everybody, I got so much crap on this, I said, Dax better than Baker. Everybody's like, how can you say that? Well, Dax bigger. He's more athletic.

He's stronger. Way incredibly coachable. Not that Baker isn't, but I can tell you this. Dak is coachable. And I don't think Dack is going to have to overcome constant ownership front office mayhem to succeed. So I said a week ago, I said, a week ago, said, Dak's better than Baker Mainfield. It is remarkable to me on Baker. And I'm not blaming him for all this stuff. And you know I've been tough on him. Like, Tim Tebow is not an

NFL quarterback. I said it. You hated me. I was right. Vince Young was not really a guy I'd build around. I think Baker's better than Vince Young and better than Tebow and better than Mansell. But the problem with Baker is you have to be so good to overcome the nonsense with Cleveland, that I'm not sure DAC could win in Cleveland. I'm not sure. Seriously, I think Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson, it could be man overboard. I think Baker's got all sorts

of accuracy talent. But this is why, I didn't put him in the top ten, and why I've said about Baker, if Baker and Sam Darnold are equally talented, Sam will be better because you think the jets are dysfunctional. By

Cleveland standards, the jets are highly functional. They really are. They've made the playoffs. They've made the AFC championship with Mark Sanchez. I mean, the Jets had Herm Edwards won playoff games. Rex Ryan won playoff games. So this, this, this, this,

PFF is telling you, it's, it's not all Baker here. It's not. And I believe they're right on that. And from a guy who's been very critical, Al Michaels around the corner, Joel Clatt, Jordan Palmer, Sean Porter in studio, WBC, Welterweight, Chairman. We have a good show today.

We are stacked. today on our show. Blazing five, a couple days, marquee three tomorrow. Don't go anywhere. Live in LA, first hour flying by Al Michaels, NBC's voice. Next, the herd. One more herd? The herd streams 24 hours a day, seven days a week within the IHeart radio app. Search Hurd to listen live or on demand whenever you'd like. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what

happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports slice brings you closer to to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to SportsSlice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

And for more, follow Timbo Slic Life 12 and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host and your favorite therapist, Kier Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase

that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing and we're still chasing it and we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth?

Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Keir Gaines, as we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood,

pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hardway. Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. Everyone, it's Ryder Strong and Will Ferdell from PodMeets World. And now the PodMeets Twirled podcast. We're two men who were completely

clueless to reality TV, who now have covered Dancing with the Stars, traders, and we're gearing up for the season finale of Survivor. So yeah, Now we're experts. I know we annoyed a lot of our listeners by our severe lack of survivor knowledge. That is the point of the show. I'm just going to remind you.

I have watched some survivor. I obviously haven't watched enough. Did people not like it? Yeah. Just because we? Yeah. We'll be recapping the big conclusion in the 50th season from the final attempts at gameplay to the desperate plea as the finalists to a bunch of, ha, hoo.

Again, we are experts. So make sure to tune into Pod Meets Twirled for all our Survivor 50 takes. Listen to PodMeets Twirled on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, guys? This is Clivert Taylor the Fourth. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker, this linebacker walks up to me, he goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her.

What? Time out. Quarterback on office blue with 42. Hey, Wreck, my mama want you to wave at her. What? Hey, Ms. Parker. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Oh, here we go, hour two.

This is going to be really good. Al Michaels and Joe, Joel Klaff. There's going to be a crazy hour. Live in Los Angeles, this is the herd. Wherever you may be and however you may be listening. We're on IHeart Radio. We are on Fox Sports Radio, and we are on FS1. We got great news yesterday for the show.

Can't tell you, which is kind of a tease. Joy Taylor, it's good for her, too. It's good for all of us here. So things are rolling. Thank you to the audience who watches. It's been an amazing four years. This is my fourth year. And it's your fourth year or two, but your second show.

This is my second show. It's my third and a half year at Fox. Yeah. It's very exciting for all of us. Al Michaels in a couple of minutes. I grew up. So just to give you a hint. grew up, I wanted to be a baseball announcer. So that's why I wanted to be, you know, I was a kid

listening to baseball games. And Ben Scully is the first baseball announcer I had heard because my team in Seattle, we didn't have the Mariners when I was a little kid. In 1972, when I started watching sports, I was seven years old, six years old, we didn't have a baseball team. So I always used to go into my backyard and listen on the radio dial, sit on the roof of my house and try to find, you know, on the coast of Washington. Ben Scully was the first great baseball announcer I heard. And I remember hearing as a kid, Al Michaels, he was like in 1976, 1976, 1977, he was doing San Francisco giant stuff, you know. And I was like, who's this guy? And so he's always been one of my broadcasting, you know, idols, right?

And Miracle on Ice and all that stuff. So by the way, tomorrow on Fox, Joe Buck, also amazing. And Troy Aitman, Thursday Night Football, is going to be the Packers in Philadelphia. And it's interesting because I like Carson Wentz a lot. But there are times when I can't win the argument. with you, right? Like you have the numbers on your side. Nick Wright and I were talking about this, and I can't win the argument. So Carson Wentz is four and seven in games decided by seven points or less. And Dak is very good in those games, and Carson Wentz is not. So, I mean, he's four and seven.

But there has to be context of stuff, and I'll give you a great example. Twice this year, he's had winning touchdowns drop. Nelson Aguilar two weeks ago against Atlanta. So this is a win. Carson makes the throw, and Nelson Aguilar, former USC kid, good player. He drops this ball. And so that would have been a win. Okay, so Carson, it's a great throw, by the way. I mean, okay. And then against Detroit this weekend, he's got a rookie from Stanford, who I really like.

And this could be the winning touchdown throw too. And that ball was dropped. So in my opinion, two great throws. Four and seven should be six and five in close games. But this is the way the NFL is. And now I do think the criticisms of Carson Wentz are fair, but I do think he's had to overcome a lot. So he gets hurt.

The backup comes in, wins a Super Bowl and gets a statue. So that divides the locker room. I mean, players are loyal to who's winning. Players were loyal to Tim Tebow because Tebow was winning. I mean, they were going to practice and he was the fourth best quarterback on Denver, and they're like, yeah, but on Sunday, God intervenes and we win. We like Tebow. So, like, you know, so, you know, players like Nick Foles.

Now, the front office looked at film and didn't like him, so he had to overcome that. He gets hurt. He's unbelievable. He's MVP season gets hurt. Foles comes in, wins a Super Bowl. They put a statue out front. Every day he goes into the stadium, I got to look at Nick Foles. That'd be like me watching a, you know, I got a, I got to watch some young broadcaster's

statue in front of Fass 1 every time I come in here. Jason McIntyre's got a statue. I wouldn't be in a great love him, but, you know. And then the second thing that happens, the guy's always in rehab. it's hurt. Like Andrew Lucky's always banged up. Psychologically, that's a lot to deal with. And then number three, this year, what is a young quarterback need? He needs a healthy offensive line and people that can catch. Philadelphia's offensive left tackle situation is a mess, and they have nobody that can catch and all the receivers are hurt. So you win the argument.

I can't win the argument against you. I think Wentz is really good, but you have all the ammo on your side, but I'm looking at those two drop passes. I'm looking at some bad breaks he's had. I'm looking at the left tackle situation in Philly. I'm looking at the wide receiver. who had seven drops last week. I got two I showed you that should have been caught. Four and seven in those games decided by seven or less would be six and five, but you win the argument. And I said this for years and years and years about Shaq and Kobe,

that when the Lakers had to make a choice, they chose Kobe over Shaq. I knew for two years I would have to eat a dirt sandwich and you would win the argument because Miami had all sorts of good players. And they had DeWade and his prime. And I was like, okay. And I knew Kobe was the right choice. Kobe was in better shape.

Kobe loved practice. Shaq didn't. Kobe is going to give you 80 games. Shack was going to give you 60. Kobe was not, he was totally obsessed and focused, and Shaq was, you know, a little bit of distracted with a movie career. And I also thought Shaq's body was deteriorating. And Kobe, I thought was already coming into his prime. It was going to have like seven, eight prime years.

But Kobe, when Shaq left, had, you know, nothing. He had a nothing burger on the roster. And he almost left and went to Chicago. So I knew for two years I was going to lose the Kobe argument. But I knew it was the right thing. And with Carson Wentz, you win the argument now. I think he's great, but, you know, receivers can't catch, two dropped winning touchdowns, left tackles a mess. He had a divided locker room when he got into the league because Nick Foles, and he's been hurt all the time.

And so, you know, it's, you know, I've said this before. Now that Andrew Luck retired, I think it's made a lot of players in the league look around. And I've said this before. If Carson Wentz had another really, really, really ugly injury and cross your fingers, it never happens because Philadelphia has paid him a lot, should pay him a lot, and he's fantastic. But, you know, Carson Wentz may wake up in the morning and say, I got $100 million in the bank. I like hunting and fishing. I'm a North Dakota boy. I'm tired of rehabbing.

So, you know, again, you may win the argument. You may end up winning the whole argument then. And it's like, yep, he was never as good as I thought. But when I watch him, the only guy in the league, the only quarterback in the league I look at when I see Patrick Mahomes, the only one I look at and see the same. thing is Carson Wentz. Size's arm can throw it from different angles. I think he's more, I think he's actually physically better than Aaron Rogers. Aaron 6-2, Carson's 6-5.

I think Carson is right now at this point is if they ran a 40-yard dash and a cone drill, I think Carson would beat Aaron Rogers. So that's how much I like him. By the way, Carson Wentz this week. He didn't want to blame the receivers. There's Carson Wentz. He didn't want to blame the receivers. It's part of the game.

You know, guys are going to drop passes. We're going to put the ball on the ground. I'm going to throw picks. We're going to misreads. Things happen. Guys make mistakes. And again, it's frustrating. No one wants to make mistakes.

But there's nothing you can really do about it. And just keep building those guys up. All right. Let's bring him on. He's a multi-time national sportscaster of the year winner, the voice of NBC Sports. Al Michaels, who, thank God, lives two decades doing Monday night football. Now, Sunday night football, as my wife always says,

if you're as good as Al, the last five, 10 years of your career, I won't leave you. That's what she says. Al, how are you? Fantastic. How are you? I'm doing great. By the way, in 1974, you were the next great young announcer. You were doing Cincinnati Reds baseball.

You were probably 12. You got that job. Then you left it to double your money, go to San Francisco. Marty Brennaman took over for you, and he's retiring. I tripled the money to go to San Francisco. So I did the Reds in 71. Pull that mic closer, Al. I will.

Yeah. I tripled the salary to go to San Francisco. So I left one of the great baseball teams in history. Rose. Rose, Bench, Morgan, Perez, Sparky Anderson, Ken Griffey, senior coming up as a kid. I lived in Grayland, Washington. That was my favorite team. They were fantastic.

They had like Hall of Famers everywhere. I'm there three years. Went to the World Series in 72, the playoffs in 73, upset by the Mets and the Pete Rose, Bud Harrelson. Yeah. Fracas. And then, so I leave. leave Marty with this great team and I go to this Moribund franchise.

They were horrible. But they were terrible. And then Marty's doing the World Series in 75 and 76. So I was there three. Marty's there 15 times as long as I was. And, you know, God bless him. The guy did a tremendous job through the years. You know as well as anybody.

There's a connection between the audience and the announcer. You take Vince Scully. In Los Angeles. The top of the top. 67 years. So you go through every generation. I mean, the father, the son, the grandfather, the grandson. Marty, pretty much the same thing in Cincinnati.

They had some great teams. They had some bad teams over a 46-year period. Jack Buck and Marty Brennamet and Ernie Harwell have been the summer voices for 50 years. Right. They were 50 years. Jack Buck, Joe's dad, Ernie in Detroit was a legend. And there you go. Now, I've got to ask you, Al, I have been, Sunday night was just terrific.

And I've been marginally critical of Baker Mayfield. But I can't blame him for all the issues. But when you went to Cleveland, and Al Michaels and Chris Collinsworth don't do Cleveland much. Give me the environment. Give me the moment. Your takeaway now the game's over. Tell the audience what that,

because Cleveland doesn't host Sunday night football games. Only every 11 years. I mean, the last time we were there was 2008. It was a Pittsburgh Cleveland game. Hadn't been back since. I mean, over that period of time, how many Patriot games would be done like 30? So the town was crazy because, first of all, the expectations, as you know in Cleveland were so high, so gigantically high.

And then you started out, and of course they laid an egg on opening day in the fourth quarter against Tennessee, came back, beat the underman jets. So everybody was pretty stoked. But I will say this, I mean, their defense did a fantastic job the other night. Chris and I, Collinsworth and I were talking about the fact we had never, ever done a game with the entire secondary. was inactive. They were all hurt. Every one of them. You look at the flip card,

the top four guys inactive that night. And they're calling up guys from the practice squad and getting guys from the Raiders and who got an interception the other night. So they did, I think Steve Wilkes did a really good job, the defensive coordinator, keeping the Rams as close as he did. I liked Mayfield a lot.

We had not met him. We didn't know what to expect. What did you get? I liked them a lot. Really sharp, clear-eyed, focused. I think he's a guy, he's got a great future. But he just, he sees a lot of things. He's really, really bright and fun too.

And he has a good sense of humor. We, you know, we laugh with these guys, and it was great, and we're able to get him going. And same thing with Freddie Kitchens. You know, the great thing about doing the game like that is we know the Patriots, we know the Cowboys, we know the Packers, inside out, all the guys. We hadn't, we didn't know any of these. people. So we knew Beckham because we've had

Beckham for a number of years in New York. But it was fun to be with him. And I'll tell you what, we had Miles Garrett in the meeting. Boy, he's a player. I know, but what's amazing to me, Colin, is this is a guy leading the league in penalties. People are thinking, oh, you know, come on, putting his body on top of Simeon in New York.

And, you know, Simian's gone for the season. Comes in very reflective, very quiet, very intelligent. Yeah. Not at all we expected. So it's great. on to do teams that we haven't done in a long time. Now, you do now, this week is fantastic. The Saints defense is real. Teddy Bridgewater is a very, he's 13 and 6 in his last 19 starts and his Cowboys.

So when you sit down, you know, I tend to think you sit down with quarterbacks and you're probably sitting down with Dak and Jerry sneaks into the room and just wants to talk to you. What is your relationship with Jerry? Because you've done so many cowboy games. And, you know, I mean, Jerry's a businessman and you've always had, you know, the Cronkies and the Jerry's that you know those guys. And you've been around.

You've both been doing this league forever. It's fun. This is the older, Jerry. These are the Twilight Year, Jerry. Has he changed from 15 years ago? Not a lot. And he's one of my favorite people. And I have just the utmost admiration.

Because here's a guy who had a vision. And I met him 30 years ago. I met him in an owner's meeting in 1989. He just bought the team. He's taking all this heat in Dallas because he's fired Tom Landry. Yes, I remember that. And he brought in Jimmy Johnson. And I went up.

introduce myself at the Palm Desert or Palm Springs Marriott. And I said, hey, by the way, I said, you know, I've been going to Dallas for a few years now on Monday night. And all they do is write about it's time for Landry to go. It's time, you know, hey, send him off into the sunset. You did it and now you're getting all this seat. So he, so and then with Jerry, all the years we've known him, he had to, we, he had us to dinner at his house. a couple of times. He had the model of the stadium that he wanted to build. And, oh, yeah, back in the 90s. And he wanted to build it in downtown Dallas, couldn't get that done. Obviously gets it done in Arlington. And to me, I mean, that stadium is now 10 years old.

It was opened in 2009. Colin, it's as beautiful as it was on opening day. I think it's the model. I mean, the stadium that's going to come up here in Los Angeles will probably be the all-timer that Stan Crocky is building. But the thing with Jerry, Jerry, Jerry, only does things first class. There's no practice facility first class. The star is off the charts. Everything he does, the maintenance in AT&T Stadium is phenomenal. You know, you go to a stadium that's 10 or 15 years old,

and boy, all of a sudden, you know, you get a dumpster smell in the bowels of the stadium. This thing is like pristine. It's beautiful. And I have tremendous respect for him. The one thing about Jerry, and, you know, Jerry takes a lot of heat, obviously, because he's out there. He's bigger than life. but boy he's resolute

what he stands for he means it he doesn't put on any heirs I mean that's that's all Jerry Jones and if you know I'm a fan of a team I want an owner like that he lives and dies with wins and of course he had tremendous success early on he wins the three Super Bowls in four years

now it's been a long drought in regard to that but boy I've never seen an owner live or die more than Jerry does with his team You and Chris do a tremendous job. You've done a lot of Patriot games. Last year, there was, I wouldn't call it conflict, but Tom for the first time was with his documentary voicing some concerns.

I wish it could be a little more fun. Belichick, I've heard behind the scenes, he's a riot. But when you sit down with Belichick and Brady, are you surprised with Belichick's curtness and Tom's sort of optimism that it has worked 19 years? Well, not really only because, I mean, they're both really smart. They're both driven. They're different people, obviously.

I would go back with Bill to the, when I started Monday night football. He's the defensive coordinator for the New York Giants. So probably been in 100 meetings with them. Wow. Oh, yeah. Really? Well, you go back all the years. We did the Giants and we did.

Then we even had some Browns games when he was there. How much will he give you? He gives you, it depends on the day, but he gives us what we need. You know, the one thing about Bill is he'll be straightforward with you. You ask him the right questions, he'll give you the right answer. He also loves history. Yes. We got him going.

We did the opening game against Pittsburgh a couple of Sundays ago. We got him going on the replacement players in 1987. He was on Parcell's staff and how much Parcells hated that. And Bill said, Belichick said he's out there, he's going out to Long Island to try to find guys playing on the street or in parks and everything.

And he's bringing him in. And we even told the story on the air. So Bill's the defensive coordinator. And it's a situation where the opposing team, it's a Monday night game, actually, against San Francisco in the Meadowlands. And he's yelling out to the defensive hand. There's all tense stuff.

and everything, and there's a third and 29, whatever it is. And he goes, hey, hey, loosen up, loosen up. And the guy looks over at Bill, like, what do you mean? And Belichick goes, loosen up. And the guy starts doing jumping jacks before the snap. So you get Belichick going on stuff like that. It's a lot of fun. It's great.

You know, here's the thing. People say, does he give you the game plan? We don't need the game plan. Chris Collinsworth could coach the game. Yeah, his homework is a, you know, He could coach the game. He knows. We don't need a coach to tell us.

You can figure it out. And they're adjusting as well. And Chris adjusts as well. He sees everything. It's fantastic. I mean, once in a while a coach will tell us, you know, I'm going to throw the bomb on the first play of the game. Mike Shanahan was great.

Shanahan said, you know, the opening play is going to be. He would tell you. 60. Yeah. Elway, you know, he's got Elway. So the opening play is going to be 60 yards down the field to, you know, Mark Jackson or Ricky and Teal or somebody. He would say, the opening play.

And after that, you can figure it out. You've done, and as I told the audience before you came on, I heard you first as a young kid. You were a young broadcaster doing Niner Games. I was in Westport, Grayland, Washington on the roof of my house with an AM radio. The Mariners weren't really much of a team yet. And they were on a Seattle station, and my town didn't get it. So I heard you on a San Francisco stick.

I think it was probably KNBR at the time. Was it? During those years, it was KSFO. Okay. 570 on the dial, San Francisco. So I heard a young Al Michaels. you're very similar. Your voice is more, it's deeper now, obviously. And there's obviously the miracle and ice, which we've discussed.

That's probably the greatest call in American sports history. Let me play it one time. I like to play it out of respect for all. Because I know where I was. By the way, I was in a bowling alley. The game was not live. No. I was in a bowling alley. My mom worked at a bowling alley. She ran the kitchen in the bowling alley.

And somebody came out of the bar said, we beat the Russians. And I remember they had green carpet. It was AstroTurf. It was not a high-end bar. It was not, you know, the Weston. And so I remember going home and my mom let me stay up. So it's the greatest, they've made movies all about it, documentaries. By the way, the Russian documentary is unbelievable.

Here's the call. I get goosebumps every time I watch it. Here you go. It is to me the greatest call. And even to this day, the greatest moment. So take that out. Is there another big event that doesn't get, it doesn't get the publicity? that you felt that it had,

it really will go down for you as the second moment that you really remember. You know, I've got like two A, B, and C, Colin. I mean, the last four Super Bowls we've done on NBC have all gone down to the last 30 seconds. That's because of the Patriot Turn all. They've been in three of them. But the one before that was Arizona, Pittsburgh.

Best. Love that game. Incredible Super Bowl. I mean, Arizona, what are they doing here? They fall behind. They come from behind. Larry Fitzgerald catches a pass. Arizona has the lead two and a half minutes to go. And then Rathlisberger leads them down the field.

And San Antonio Holmes makes the phenomenal catch to win the game. And that game also featured James Harrison going 100 yards at the end of the half. So you had two of the most iconic plays in history. And there, of course, is the Holmes catch. And by the way, you had the Steeler brand. In fact, I think, Joe, you were on the show I said this. This is the best Super Bowl that's never been talked about is a great Super Bowl. It was at the time, but now it's almost been eclipsed.

We had the Malcolm Butler game, Seattle against New England. We had Philadelphia against New England. So we've done... You used to do boxing, by the way. In other words, two A, B or C would be, I did in 1985, Hagler-Herns. Oh, God, Lord. Which Ring Magazine ranked the first round as the greatest boxing round of the 20th century. You did it for ABC?

No, for ABC, but it lost. on a closed circuit with Al Bernstein. Oh, I know, Al. Only time I ever work with Al Bernstein. It's great. How's that for doing it for our one-off? So I did that fight, and that was breathtaking. I was sitting there at ringside, and these two guys,

and it was a very hyped fight, and normally they don't live up to expectations, and guys come out and they parry and all that stuff. And then the two guys just met in the center of the ring and just wailed away at each other. Yes. The two, maybe the two at that. That point, best pound for pound fighters in the country. I have no idea how either guy survived the first round. The second round was pretty good, too.

And then in the third round, you know, Hagler was cut. So he's got to end this pretty because the doctor's looking at it between the second and third round. It could have been a technical draw. I mean, he's bleed. So he knew he had to knock herons out. It was eight minutes of exhilaration. Sports Illustrated on the cover, I think the headline was eight minutes of fury. So it's amazing.

The great thing about sport. Folks, you can YouTube this. You can YouTube to fight. It's an incredible YouTube. It's, you know, Colin, the great thing about sports is the World Series is like a 10 to 14 day feast. The Super Bowl is three and a half hours. The NBA finals are two weeks. Hagler-Herns was eight minutes.

Eight minutes. I mean, think about that. Think about that. I mean, I love doing, you know, though I've had a chance to do the World Series, the NBA finals. and it's like a book. You hope it's a seven-chapter book. It could be as short as four. But Hagler-Herns, I remember walking away going,

oh, I had to catch my breath. Just watching this or announcing the thing. Yeah, my first job out of college was Vegas. And I've told people this for years. For anybody in their 20s, the two things in sports you missed, and I've told you this, is Al Michaels doing baseball, and when boxing was as big as the NFL. I'm not saying it was as broadly popular.

But I can remember, George Foreman Muhammad Ali fought. I am watching a kid show in Seattle, JP Patches. And they break in to tell you that Ali's beat Foreman in Zaire. It was a children's show. So that's how big boxing was, Muhammad Ali. Al Michaels, 10th season together, Sunday night football. You know, it's a pleasure.

Hey, I love coming in. And by the way, it took me 12 minutes to get here. You're always welcome. The great Al Michaels. This Sunday, you've got Cowboys Saints. Cowboy Saints. New Orleans has good oysters. That's fun.

We'll sample those. Cajun or Creole? What do you prefer? Creole. Okay. I don't think either are great for you. We're back and forth. Yeah.

Hal Michaels, great seeing you. All right. Joy with the news. Oh, no, I take a break. My break. I went so long. Back in a second. The Herd. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd. weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific. night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments

to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports Slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to Sports Slice on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12

and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking.

Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it, and we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses.

Steve Burns, Dustin Ross. you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth? Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Keir Gaines, is we have real conversations about healing,

growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hardway. Open your free Our Heart Radio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. Hey, everyone. It's Ryder Strong and Will Fidel from PodMeets World. And now the Pod Meets Twirled podcast. We're two men who were completely clueless to reality TV, who now have covered Dancing with the Stars, traitors,

and we're gearing up for the season finale of Survivor. So yeah, now we're experts. I know we annoyed a lot of our listeners by our severe lack of survivor knowledge. That is the point of the show. I'm just going to remind you. I have watched some Survivor. I obviously haven't watched enough. Did people not like it?

Like what was... Yeah. Just because we... Yeah. We'll be recapping the big conclusion in the 50th season, from the final attempts at gameplay, to the desperate pleas of finalists to a bunch of ha-hoo. Ha-ha-hoo, ha-hoo, ha-oh. Again, we are experts.

So make sure to tune into Pod Meets Twirled for all our Survivor 50 takes. Listen to PodMeets Twirled on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, guys? This is Clivert Taylor the 4th. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker walks up to me, he goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her.

What? Quarterback on office blue with 42. Hey, rec, my mama want you to wave at her. What? Hey, Miss Parker. Listen to the Clippers show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Tomorrow, Thursday night football is back on Fox as Carson Wentz and the Eagles take on Aaron Rogers and the Packers in a huge NFC showdown.

It all starts at 730 Eastern 430 Pacific on Fox NFL Network and streaming on Prime Video. Is there anything better than those big late Fox games or Thursday games like at Lambo? It's like USC football at its best in Miami football is like college, but it feels a little like pro. Green Bay is the only NFL that feels a little like college. It's like 75% NFL, 25% Badger football. I think those games look so good. Green Bay games look so good on television. Here's Joy, thanks to Al Michaels, that was so much fun for me.

Nick Wright, also Joel Clack coming up, Joy with the News. No, no, no, no. Turn on the news. This is the Herdline News. Well, let's stick with Green Bay. The Packers are undefeated heading into their matchup with the Eagles tomorrow night on Fox, and they've largely relied on their defense so far, which is new for them. And even with all that early success, Aaron Rogers says it's time for the offense to take it up a notch.

It's time for us to do our part on offense moving forward. We're going to play some stretch of really good football teams. And at some point, you know, we can't expect our defense to shut everybody down. They have been. But at some point, the offense is going to have to wake up and start making some place. Boy, it's a new day in Green Bay, isn't it? It really is. You know, and just even listening to him talk, it's a little bit.

It's so interesting from Aaron Rogers because it's almost like he got so excited that they had a defense that mentally he was like, I don't have to do this anymore. And then now the gear has to go back up again. I mean, I think we all kind of feel like there's nothing to really fear with Aaron Rogers and Green Bay offense. But Kansas City needs Mahomes to be great to win. If he wasn't last weekend, they don't win. Right. Green Bay is built now. Aaron can have an off day.

He can play 61% of his throws. He can have a pick. They can still win. Right. But he can't have an off. first quarter of the season. Right, right. So then that's what Aaron Rogers is saying.

Like we've relied on our defense so far, which is obviously nice to have in Green Bay, because they haven't had it for a couple years. And Aaron Rogers has had to score 35 points in every game to have a chance at winning. That's not the case anymore. But you do have to kick it into another gear, especially because the next couple games they have, obviously the Eagles tomorrow night, then at the Cowboys against the Lions and Raiders, then at the Chiefs and out the Chargers. So you're going to need quite a bit of offense in a couple of those games.

So the Steelers season seems lost already with an overall. and three start and season ending injury to Ben Rathsburger, but defensive end, Cam Hayward isn't giving up. He said that starting on Monday against the Bengals, the Steelers have to be perfect. Our execution has to be flawless from here on now. Our room for errors out the window. We have to be perfect everything we do, especially in practice. It's my job to keep guys accountable. My guys to keep these guys ready to have this opportunity.

both teams are 0 and 3, but one team's going to be 1 and 3 going after this game. By the way, 1 and 3 in the AFC means you're probably a game out of the wild card. I mean, that sounds ridiculous. And the NFC, O and 3 is a death sentence. I think Pittsburgh, if they win, I feel like they play Monday Night Football, right? If they win, Tuesday, I come out and I'm like, season. And then, by the way, Joy, it's all those home games for a month and a half. But it's the Ravens in their division now that are serious.

and in the AFC, there are a lot of teams that could go on a run because it is the AFC, like you said. I just, I don't have a lot of hope in the Steelers this year. I know that everyone is kind of- I'm giving them one more week. I mean, one more week against the Bengals? I'm giving them one more week. I'm going to need three more weeks to see if it's a possibility because they have the Bengals next, then the Ravens, and then the Chargers.

So that's, I mean, obviously the Dolphins Colts after that, but those next three games are pretty much going to determine what the rest of season is going to look like, especially for the AFC North, all playing each other within the next few weeks, so really important. Finally, Lamello Ball is playing in Australia's NBA while preparing for the 2020 NBA draft, and he's making such a good impression that he's even joined the conversation for the first overall pick. One NBA executive told ESPN, if he keeps this up, I don't see any way he isn't in the conversation for the number one overall pick. He's completely changed my perception of the type of prospect he is in all of the background info I gathered here from his coaches and teammates. Paint a very different story of what I think.

thought about him off the court as well. Just when you thought you were getting rid of LeVar Ball. Nope. Nope. Undefeated, never lost. But he's got that crazy shot like Lonzo. He makes it, though. The thing about La Mello Ball, and I told you about this a little while ago, because everyone's kind of sleeping on him, and then obviously everyone gave LeVar a very hard time

about sending him to Lithuania, and he's not playing in college. And now the competition down there might not be at the same level that it is in college. He is dominating. He's moving up the ranks for the draft prospects. He's the top-rated point guard at this point, and he's only going to continue to get better. He works on his body. He's very concerned about all aspects of his game, not just offensively. He wants to be a good defender.

I do think he's going to be the number one overall pick because I think once we get to the draft, once we're past the NCAA tournaments and everyone starts doing their interviews and we start learning more about these guys, Lamello is very different than Lanzo. He's got his whole swag. He's been in the game as far as being public for longer than Lanzo was, and he's a talker. So it's going to be very interesting. What happens, obviously it's going to depend on who has the number one overall pick and whether they need a point guard or not. Well, Lonzo, that's not bail on Lanzo either.

Lonzo's still all in on Lanzo. No, no, no. I mean, I'm still all in on Lanzo. I've never bailed on Lanzo at all. But this is something interesting to watch, and I'm glad that people are coming around, so lema. I think it's a funny story. I actually think it's hysterical. I heard this story.

I told you yesterday. I said, this is a right. Everybody thinks, we're so done with Lbar. Nope. It's so funny. It makes me laugh. All right, Joy with the news. Well, that's the news.

And thanks for stopping by. The Herdline news. We got so much on this show. Joel Clat, there's a couple of massive college games this weekend. Notre Dame looked great against Georgia. Jim Harbaugh's in big trouble. If USC loses at Washington, Clay Hilton's all but done, maybe already anyway. Joel Clat around the corner.

Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd. weekdays in noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never

make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaders to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports Slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to Sports Slice on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of Mental Health Awareness Month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field

and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking. Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough.

Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth, or are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust.

I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, as we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, learn the hard way. Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. Hey, everyone. It's Ryder Strong and Will Friedel from PodMeets World.

And now the Pod Meets Twirled podcast. We're two men who were completely clueless to reality TV, who now have covered Dancing with the Stars, traitors, and we're gearing up for the season finale of Survivor. So yeah, now we're experts. I know we annoyed a lot of our listeners by our severe lack of survivor knowledge. That is the point of the show.

I'm just going to remind you. I have watched some Survivor. I obviously haven't watched enough. Did people not like it? Like what was just because we? Yeah. We'll be recapping the big conclusion in the 50th season from the final attempts at gameplay to the desperate pleas of finalists to a bunch of ha-hoo.

Again, we are experts. So make sure to tune into PodMeets Twirled for all our Survivor 50 takes. Listen to PodMeets Twirled on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, guys? This is Clivert Taylor the 4th. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker walks up to me, he goes,

hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Quarterback on office blue 42. Hey, ref, my mama want you to wave at her. What? Where's she at? Hey, Miss Parker. Listen to the Clifford show on the Iheart radio app,

Apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcast. All right, welcome back this week. Texas Tech at Oklahoma Saturday. Big noon kickoff. Here's the voice of college football at our network, Joel Klat. I've been pretty rough on you last couple of weeks. Yeah, but I've been right. So that's fine.

You can take it, I mean, whatever you want is fine. No friendly fire here. You're part of the company for the time being. And my point is I should probably be nicer to you. Oh, is that it? So you know what? Let's go to your top 10. Let's do it.

You have the guts. The best team you've seen so far is Ohio State. Okay, I'd go LSU, but the Buckeyes have a pass rusher, by the way. It looks better than Boses, maybe? Yeah, they do actually. Chase Young is his name. If you haven't seen Chase Young, he's phenomenal. I know the Boses are phenomenal players, but, you know, for, I guess, the third time in, what,

four or five years, Ohio State's going to have the number one defensive player drafted in the NFL draft. His name is Chase Young. He's a dominant player. I didn't have the guts to actually separate Ohio State, Alabama, and Clemson. Yeah, they're all good. That's my fault. I should have.

Ohio State, I think, is the best team in the country. They've proven it on the field. They have been dominant, Colin, and the one area that I think people had questions about was their suspect defense from a year ago. Their defense this year has been unbelievable. And Justin Fields, their quarterback, the transfer from Georgia, he has transformed their offense so that J.K. Dobbins, their running back,

is now more of a threat. He's averaging seven yards per carry, which was more in line with what he did as a freshman. and Ohio State has been absolutely dominant. They've been the best team I've seen so far. By the way, I like the fact you didn't dip into, you've been very, very tough on Notre Dame, but you were good this week. I have to constantly.

Yeah, you do, I'm sure, I'm sure. By the way, I came out of the game with Notre Dame more impressed. I did too. I think it's, and it's, first of all, I'll start by saying this. The environment at Georgia was incredible. It was great. I mean, that light show rivaled like a YouTube concert. It was insane, right? And yet, here's this road team who was still had a chance to win inside the 50-yard line, down only six, after 12 penalties and two turnovers.

In the southern humidity at night in the biggest crowd in Georgia history, I kind of came out of that game and I thought, Notre Dame's for real. Yeah, and they're one area where, and I said it to you last week, their rush defense is something I was concerned about. And it was good. It was really good. In fact, Georgia only ran the ball for a little over 150 yards, and that's the lowest that they've run for at home in quite some time. So I'm with you. I actually came out of this very impressed with Notre Dame. The hard part, without a championship game for them,

I'm not seeing the avenue for a playoff for Notre Dame. I don't think it exists this year. Well, you would need Oklahoma to lose because Washington's out. So the Pac-10 is not going to have somebody. Well, you're going to need champions in the SEC and Big 12 to have two losses. so that then you can have an argument. Listen, the SEC teams, Auburn and Georgia and LSU, they're all going to lose late.

Now the question is, will the voters when LSU and Auburn lose? Auburn shocked me. Auburn's going to lose twice, because they're going to lose to Alabama and LSU. They're not good enough offensively to beat the Georgia's and the LSUs and the Alabama's. Correct. So I think you're going to have, now Alabama will survive. If I had to guess today, I would go, Ohio State. No, no, I got to be careful.

Wisconsin looks good. Yep. I think Ohio State would be the northern team. Let's get to Harbaugh, who we have defended to the end. Yeah, we have. And I don't want to hear about, you know, as coordinator. The bottom line is, I heard a story this week that he hired the coordinator and never met him face to face. The offense is a mess.

That is true. It's a mess. This is on Jim. It is. Okay, so let's unpack all of that. And I want to start with, you know, you and I get a lot like, oh, you guys are the Harbaugh guys. Well, the subject of Jim Harbaugh is very partisan. It's very partisan.

In that if you're in the anti-Harbaugh crowd or the Harbaugh is overrated crowd, then no one's allowed to give him any credit or else you just scream and shout and kick and scream. Okay, no, no, you're... When you say he's a very good football coach and he's proven that over a long period of time, that is true. However, in the last five games,

something has happened. And he went chasing something that has failed. Yes. To this point, I don't know if it's going to, you know, change. This change of offensive philosophy has failed so far. It's unwatchable. It is. And the one area where you would always say at least Harbaugh teams in general are, what would you say?

Tough. The line of scrimmage. They're not. They're not. They got pushed around the defensive line. The offensive line was awful. I mean, they were running into each other. They couldn't pick up very easy and basic stunts from Wisconsin's defense.

Wisconsin's defense is very good. I don't want to take anything away from Wisconsin. It's not 28-0. But Michigan was atrocious and have been ever since that game at Ohio State. And I just wondered to myself, and the anti-Harbaugh crowd is going to hate this, but I wonder allowed with you all. If the spot had been correct in 2016 against Ohio State and if they get the punt off against Michigan State, do you think he goes through this kind of mid-coaching crisis this last year it changes his offensive philosophy? No, I will say in those big 10 jobs, Michigan has to be to Ohio State. Ohio State has to beat Michigan.

And if you don't, it shifts. It shifts. Drastically. Yeah, I won't use the overused word narrative, but John Cooper was a great coach. He couldn't beat Michigan. He couldn't. And that John Cooper now is a, quote, losing coach at Ohio. Ohio State. He averaged 10 and a half wins a year. That's correct. So it doesn't matter that

Harbaugh has kind of pulled Michigan up by their bootstraps from the seven years between Lloyd Carr and himself. It doesn't matter that he's averaged three more wins. It really, it doesn't matter. In a better big 10, and it doesn't matter. This has been a failure of philosophical change. Now, that doesn't mean that it can continue to be a failure. They might turn it around. I'm not sure. It doesn't look like it so far because every game that I've watched and I've watched All of them on film, I've done two of them in the booth. Their offense is dreadful. And it starts with their offensive line.

I know their quarterback play has not been great. Just bad. But Jim's offensive line has been atrocious. Okay, so this week you're doing the Oklahoma game. And Lincoln Riley is what Chip Kelly was about nine years ago, which is people. The offensive guru in the country. And people are copying him left and right. By the way, Baker's not as good since he left him, not making definitive opinions.

Kyler Murray's not as slick. I don't know. We've seen this. Slick. I just, anyway, the point being is, I watch Oklahoma and I look at Jalen Hertz, and I don't buy into Jalen Hertz, I buy into Lincoln Riley. So tell me this, what is he doing? Now, I knew when Chip Kelly was doing it, Chip was just speeding the game up every 13 seconds.

Sure. With Lincoln Riley, without boring the, you know what, schematically, you're a quarterback. What is going? What is he doing? Everybody's like, I can't stop that. Okay. He, there's two things happening. One is he is very good at getting NFL style of matchups.

So he changes his personnel group and his formation and creates movement and motions in order to gain an advantage personnel-wise. He does that as well as anybody. Okay, to get a fast running back and a slow linebacker. That's right. Or his fastest wide receiver on a safety or a tight end on a small corner, so on and so forth. That's what the great offensive guys do. He creates matchups that are very advantageous for Oklahoma. And then I think the most underrated part of this is that there are a lot of guys that can be great offensive coaches on Monday night, Tuesday night, Wednesday night, Thursday night, forming these game plans.

He's a special play caller. His timing and his ability to build on the offense, see, I think great play callers, what they do is they take their offense and they build a narrative for the defense to look at. And while the defense doesn't even understand it, they're subconsciously communicating things to the defense with those looks. those formations, the movement. And then what happens is they have plays and plays and plays off of the same looks and action. And so if you're a linebacker now, you're sitting there and you've seen the guard and tackle pull four different times out of four different formations. But every time that they pull, man, they run that counter scheme.

And here comes that counter and it's a dangerous run scheme. And you've got to go up and stop it. Well, all of a sudden, that guard and tackle pull now, now it's the fifth time you've seen it. and you run right up into the line of scrimmage. And then Calcuttaire, the tight end, just kind of pops right by you, and he's wide open behind the linebackers. So stuff looks the same. Yes, it looks the same.

It's simple for the offense. It's repetitive for the offense, and yet for the defense, it's maddening to try to decipher and recognize it. So he does a great job with formations, personnel, creating matchups, and then off of that, he does a marvelous job. He's the best in the country at building his offensive system during the game as a play caller. And he does that as well as anybody.

Okay, now, you know, there's seven big brands in college football. We've talked Michigan, Ohio State, Alabama, Oklahoma, Texas, Notre Dame, and USC. There's nothing against the rest of them. Those are the seven big brands. Those move the TV. No, George is great, but they don't move a TV number like in Alabama. USC loses in Seattle this weekend. They're looking for a new football coach.

Probably even with last week's win, and that was all well and good, you know, have the third string guy think come in and beat Utah and so on and so forth. It's Utah. You should beat Utah and Coliseum. Bottom line, do you think they can beat Washington? No, I don't. I think Washington is really good. Jacob Easton, the quarterback in Washington is very underrated.

24 or 28 at BYU in a win last week. I think Washington is underrated in large part because everyone wrote them off after they lost to Cal. Cal's a pretty good football team. They're undefeated. Justin Wilcox has one of the best secondaries in the country. And so I think USC goes up there and I think they get beat pretty handily by Washington. Whoa.

Yeah. Now, you are. I don't know what the number is. I think it's 14. Oh, that can't be the number. I believe it is. It's nine. If it's,

I believe it's 14. Goulet, look that up. You're a degenerate. Anyway, I think it's got to be closer to nine. What? So you think USC gets waxed? I do. It's 10.

And a half. Holy moly. See, all the experts are like me. They know it should be higher. Okay. According to Fox bet, it's 10 and a half. Well,

He's looking for a new coach Saturday night. All right, Joel Klaat, we got to get out of here. You know what? Almost subset. I've been perfect. Why are you running away from the almost subset? Out of time. Out of time.

What are you like Western Kentucky to beat Panera bread? Get out of here. We got to go to the herd. Washington State at Utah. One more herd? The herd streams 24 hours a day, seven days a week within the IHeart Radio app. Search Herd to listen live or on demand whenever you'd like. Jordan Palmer played in the NFL for four years.

Drafted in the six round out of U-TEP. I've gone to a couple Sun Bulls there. He does the Elite 11 camps. He's been to everyone. And you have worked with when they were just tykes. Patrick Mahomes, Daniel Jones, Josh Allen, Deshawn Watson, Sam Darnold, Kyle Allen, who we saw.

So let's start with, I was just saying this about Dak Prescott. The Cowboys have done a great job to spot talent. Van der Washed first round, DeMarcus, Lauren. they built the best offensive line. If they knew DAC was going to be this good, they'd have paid him two years ago, right? So they got him at $26 million, not like $35.

He doesn't blow me away in many instances, Jordan, but there is something about, I just lack of a smarter word, it. As somebody who's seen all these quarterbacks, you look at film for days, the good to bad. What is Dak's it? What do you see with Dak? Well, I think I've seen, I've kind of almost changed my opinion or my opinion has evolved on DAC really in the last month or so. And I know you've said this, that playing quarterback for the Cowboys is different than a lot of other jobs in sports or playing quarterback for any other team, really.

What I've seen from DAC is for the last three years, I think the best thing I'd say about DAC is how poised he was as a rookie is how poised he was. Right? Because he was third on that depth chart, ironically, behind Kellynne Moore. Yeah. Right. And so how well he played as a rookie and how poised he was. and even fast forward another year or so that was kind of the best thing I'd say about him because I thought he did everything pretty good but this last year

of the Zeeke holdout of the anticipation and the you know them not coming to a deal for DAC and the way that last season ended and just how he has compartmentalized everything and then now is playing the best football of his career I've shit my opinion is evolved

and I do think he's great for him to bet on himself and I think the Cowboys looking at this yeah there's a theory that they could have paid him back and saved money back then. Or there's also Jerry Jones, who's one of the greatest marketing minds in sports sitting here going, I string this on another couple weeks and he plays at this level, nobody's going to disagree with what we pay him. And that's going to be part of the narrative. Yeah.

Okay, so Baker Mayfield, I think he's very accurate. I've been very critical of Baker, but my eyes tell me this is not all Baker. Now, he does spring out of the pocket a little too much. I don't think he's the athlete people portray around a 4-840. I think he's nimble enough. But when I watch Cleveland now, and I'd be the first to jump on Baker, I don't see all of it as Baker's issues. What are you seeing from the offense, what they're running?

Does it fit his skill set? Yeah, I definitely do not think that this all falls on Baker. I think he is above average. I think he's mobile. Right. You're the faster mobile. He's only a couple guys. And he can move around and he can create time.

and space, which is what I always talk about. You've got to be able to create time and space. There's two ways to win and to move the ball through the air. And you have to beat man coverage and you have to beat zone coverage. And when you're beating man coverage, you do it with a mismatch. You do it with crossing routes and pick plays. They're not going to see a lot of man coverage. Look at their roster. We got Odell Beckham Jr.

They got Jukelandry. They got David and Joe. You're not going to see a lot of man coverage. So mostly zone. The way you beat zone coverage is throwing two spots with touch and anticipation. and part of it is the quarterback trusting that you're going to get there and part of it is the receiver consistently getting to the exact same spot. Okay.

That's what's interesting to me. What do you see? It's not happening. The second one's not happening. They're not seeing a lot of man coverage. So on zone, Baker had a pick week one versus Tennessee, and he got smashed. He threw three picks and all this stuff. But I saw something that Ocho used to do when I played in Cincinnati, and it happens

where it's supposed to be an 18-yard dig, call it. It's supposed to be an 18-yard dig. And because the receiver is so used to, killing the DB or beating the guy covering him, which in zone coverage, you don't need to do that. Get to the spot. He does an extra move and the timing's off and Baker throws it to a spot and the receiver's not ready. The pick goes on Baker's stat column, but the reality is, if you can't trust the guys are going to be in the same spot every single time, then you've got to wait to see it.

You're six foot, whatever he is, 6-1-6-2. The offensive line, as you pointed out, is the weakness. Now you're going to do what you have to do to survive. And for him in college, that was moving to his right. So the result is Baker's, yeah, he's getting out of there to his right. But the genesis of the problem is just not being on the same page and how you beat zone coverage, which is receivers get to your landmark on time, quarterback throw it there, trust that they're going to be there. And OBJ is doing his own thing sometimes at the top of the routes if he feels it can beat somebody.

So that's why, that's all my eyes are telling me this is not all on Baker. Okay, so an interesting player is, regardless of if the Panthers are going to move off Camer or not, I'm a recruiting junkie. I saw Kyle Allen footage. He was an Arizona kid, I think. Yeah, it does her mountain high. It was as good a high school quarterback as I'd ever seen. Then he has a weird college thing.

And he gets buried in a depth charts in A&M. And then he reemerges in Carolina. My eyes tell me he's good enough to be a starting quarterback in the NFL. I'm not going to take too much from week one. But you've had him in Elite 11s. Is he a franchise level quarterback? Yeah, and I've felt this way for a long time because if so much about how your success that happens early in your NFL

career is your entry point into the NFL. Thank you, yeah. You get drafted high, you get a longer leash. The lower you get drafted, and if you're Kyle, who was not even invited to the combine, let alone drafted, you get a real short leash, right? So much of that is, well,

the reason that he had such a tough entry point into the NFL is what happened in college. He's a top recruit. He chooses Texas A&M over everybody, plays really well his true freshman year. inter Kyler Murray who from a lot of people who I think know high school football

think that Kyler is the greatest high school football player in the state of Texas history. That's a relevant thing for me. There's some like awesome names on that list. Vince Young is high school foot in. And like amazing names on that list. And Kyler's dad went to A&M.

Played at A&M. So Kyler comes in something said and another what ends up happening is they kind of playing two quarterbacks. There's not really any communication around it. and they both kind of play bad and Kyle transfers and the next couple days later, Kyle Lur transfers. Kyle goes to Houston.

Tom Herman, I'm going to be here, transfer, sit out. We're going to build this thing. This is going to be awesome. And after he sits out, Tom Herman takes the Texas job, which he should. Yeah. You got to. So again, the route Kyle Allen just like had two, it like he had two parents bail on him. Kevin Sumlin's like, I love you.

Not that much. And then the Houston coach is, I love you, and I'm taking it. So this is what happens. This is the route where a talented kid, this happens to people in broadcasting. It happens to people in your business. Look through the cracks. And so I think there's something there. Now, let's talk about Kyler Murray.

So he's fascinating player. He's kind of a, he looks up. There's a lot of Russell Wilson here where I look at the throw and I'm like, comes off the hand quick. He's accurate, tight spiral. He does look small to me. I'll say that. That's a little warning flag.

at 5-9 and a half, hard to see over 6-6-0-Linman. What do you make so far of Kyler Murray? Well, I was at the game on Sunday, the Panthers Cardinals game. So it was really interesting and fun. And I'm actually going back this weekend. Carson's getting inducted into the Cardinals Ring of Honor, which is really cool. So with Kyler, though, it was really fun to watch, to be honest with you. It was the first time where I'm sitting there going, gosh, this is like super entertaining.

That's what I told Joy. I couldn't get off the game. I sat there for an hour. I couldn't get off it. I want to see what they're going to do next. Yes. And I also played for the Bears when Chip was, Kelly was rolling in Philly, and we had a Sunday night game and got the brakes beaten off of us.

And I just remember Lance Briggs and a couple guys in defense going, they're only running five plays, but I don't know what's going on. It was just catching people off guard so much. And I do see elements of that with what Cliff and Kyler are doing in Arizona. The problem is I still think you have to be able to turn around, hand the ball to your running back and run inside zone a handful of times a game for a lot of reasons. Yes. And just get four yards.

And so if everything has a potential of a big play or a negative play. That's what I see with it. It's hard. That's what I see. I see the way they're doing it with, and let's shift into Lamar Jackson. With Lamar, I don't see much roller coaster. They're not putting them in situations to turn it over. They have a great O line.

They block the heck out of it. They run the football. Lamar, I don't see this wild unevenness. With Kyler, I sense we're going to have months where he's a great O'Line. unbelievable and weeks he's awful. I think Lamar Jackson is working. I do think a lot of this is

what the offensive line in the running. What do you see with Lamar? Does anything concern you? What do you really like? Well, I think anytime a quarterback runs a lot, I'm concerned about the injury injuries, but one of the things I've seen from Lamar is he doesn't take unnecessary hits at all. You remember RG3? Oh, Lord. Trying to get an extra yard

and getting absolutely smoked on the sideline. I'm watching Lamar not really get hit. Get the yards. Get down, get out of bounds. So Russell's another guy who does a great job of protecting himself. Yes. So the injuries are, I'm less concerned about it that way, but what I am concerned about is

so much of the success is coming from run-pass options, RPO's, or at least just we call this play and there's a bunch of answers built into this play. I still think to win championships, you have to be able to pre-snap get into different plays. Yes. Now,

this is the second year for Lamar. Every young quarterback, it takes a while to be able to put that on their shoulders. And so right now, I think it's working. I think it's going to work. I think they're going to continue to have a really explosive season on offense. But at some point, your three, your four, that big picture here, can it go there where you're actually having multiple options before and multiple options afterwards? Because right now, he's proven that he can take a huge step. He looks a lot better as a thrower.

And he looks way more in control of the offense to do that last year, which is he's a lot. is natural. It's a second year. You've done a lead 11 since 1999, Jordan Palmer, quarterback, coach, and mentor. You had Patrick Mahomes. Are you even surprised by what you're seeing? Yeah, I had spent time with him when he was in college, and Cliff was the guy who reached out and said, I got this thing, this guy, he's this freak. It's funny, I talked to Cliff before the game this last weekend, and we were talking about Pat. And the part that doesn't surprise us is when you take that type of player, and you put him with a guy like, Andy Reid. No, Lord. So Andy Reid has less than zero ego, whatever that is. Yeah.

In terms of trying to change him. And I don't like the wind up. And his feet are jacked up. And I'm going to get him to do this. And they're just letting him play. Yes. Some no lookers. Some and lover. Got to fix some stuff. Yeah. Got to get better at that. If we change our feet this way, you'll get more consistent on these type of throws. And Pat is so coachable. He is. Absolutely. Great kid. Rockstar human. But with, it's just that combination of him. Andy and Andy just knows how to get the most out of his guys by not trying to change them. He's also a great play designer. With that being said, of course I'm surprised. This dude is completely taking over the NFL. I thought he'd be awesome. I don't know if he'd be this.

I said yesterday, he's got a Steph Curry component where Steph Curry 10 years ago, if I had told you, you can win championships just shooting threes. There'll be no more centers. And Steph Curry started that. With Mahalms, you're like, maybe you don't have to be great on defense. Maybe you can score 34 a game. I contend Jordan that Bill Belichick has suffocated seven straight quarterbacks. Patrick scored 24 and a quarter on him, and that's why they went and got AB.

Bill's like, listen, that was in a bad weather in Kansas City. Like I think Patrick is that. I think it's Steph Curry. He can score 27 in a quarter and you're like, yeah, that's what he does. Do you know in his second quarter so far, in two of his second quarters, he has 470 yards, six touchdowns, and 51 points. That's just the last two second quarters. And that's just, that is a game for half the quarterbacks in the league. Finally, Daniel Jones.

I watched him in college. And I'm like, he's a little Alex Smith. He can move. I didn't see that. He looked better as a pro. Is it because he's got better, it's not better coaching, right? No, we've talked about that, right? How can a guy look better as a pro?

We talked about Josh Allen, right, a year ago. How do you look better as a pro than he did in college? looks better today than a year ago against ACC defenses. So what am I, what's my mistake? What am I missing? One of the things at Duke is, he ran for his life as much as any college quarterback that I've evaluated. It was just, he was in a tough spot. That kid is tough as nails.

He's a great athlete. And he also had a lot of drops, which does more than just not complete the ball. It does something to do it. If you're sitting here going, we did everything right and we still had a drop and now we're punting over and over and over again. It's a psychological component to that. So he had a lot of adversity at Duke. and I've said this before about Daniel

before last weekend and everyone was jumping on the bandwagon for the last five years he's been really well developed it's well documented David Cutcliffe coached a lot of guys at Duke and other places to the Manning brothers all that but he also has a private quarterback coach and David Morris who used to back up Eli

he runs a quarterback coaching business friend of mine does a great job working with young guys he's had him since like since he was a kid so I'd say for the last five years Daniel Jones during the season and offseason has been well developed. I would make the argument that some of these quarterbacks in their fifth year, Bridgewater, Bordals, Derek Carr, they're in their fifth year of being really well developed.

Look at the programs they came from different than Daniels. So the only real discrepancy here is experience. And now he's going to get a bunch of experience. And I would say for a rookie, not being able to play with Seco and Barclay and rely on that for a few weeks, it's going to be harder to win, but it's going to be more valuable experience. I bought stock a while ago. I think Daniel Jones is going to be a star. Well, I was late on DAC.

I'll be late on this one. Maybe I learned my lesson and pivot quickly. No, I mean, I, listen, I watched a Meduca bunch, and I'm like, I don't, listen, I watched DAC at Mississippi State. Again, a bad O line. And I'm like, the key component here, though, is, and my brother's a perfect example who always says this. The way you win a bunch of Super Bowls, play for a great owner. No kidding. This group, the New York Giants, I don't care what their O-line or their secondary.

or their draft two years ago if it was good or not. They have an ownership group who's won two Super Bowls in the last whatever it is years. They know how to do it. They're going to make good decisions. They're going to more often than not make a good decision and not, you can't say that about every franchise. By the way, is this for your camp, by the way?

That's Summit. You made a comment to me last time about hats. I was like, I got to bring you a hat. That's my QB Summit hat, yeah. This is, I generally don't look and get, let's be honest about this. With my silver hair. That's me good.

If I walked into a room right now, Joy. New Air knows how to do it. It's a good luck. It is. I mean, that's not necessarily how I'd wear it, but. Jordan Palmer. It's great seeing you, man.

You too. Thanks for having me. Have fun down there. And congrats to your brother. Yeah, that's awesome. A class dude. Joy with the news. No.

No. Turn on the news. This is the Herdline News. Well, an organization that knows a two thing or two about winning Super Bowl is the Patriots. Yeah. Their ownership group knows a thing or two about that. They travel to Buffalo, take on the bills on Sunday. Buffalo fans,

call themselves Bill's Mafia. You know about Bill's Mafia? Yes, I do. They jump on tables. They jump on tables. They shotgun beers. Have you ever shotgun to beer before? Oh, yeah. I went to college. Yeah, sure. I've done that before. The Red Cup thing and the ping pong balls and shooting beer. No, I mean, like, when you, like, grab the beer off the counter and bite the beer. No, that I have not done that. I'm not a Wolverine. No, I've never done that. I don't understand how you don't cut your mouth. Is there a special technique?

Well, when I was a kid, they had in college, they called them a beer ball. The beer bong, yeah. I mean, there's no reason to be. I was not a beer bong before. Yeah, so I had to do that. I did it a couple of times. Anyway, they do all that, but they also really care about their team. And Bill Belichick is no stranger to the bill's passionate fans and is prepared for their intensity.

He said it's a very intense crowd. They're vocal, totally into it and have a great passion for the game. Some stadiums don't have quite the intensity, Buffalo does. They have no other agenda. They're there to watch the game. it gets very loud. This is an extreme compliment from Bill Belichick. He usually says nothing about anything.

But I think he also is kind of recognizing this is a really big game. And it's also, he's seeing Buffalo's defense on tape. They got a real pass rush. They are first and fewest yards allowed per drive, third in touchdown percentage per drive, and first and percentage of three and outs force. They also have the fifth ranked rush offense. Yes, they rebuilt their O-line.

They added multiple free agent O linemen. They drafted one in the second round. So, I mean, they really went out joy in the off-season. And they just said, we have to get better in this unit. And they just went and drafted it. It's almost like what the Packers did with their linebacking corps. Like Zedarius Smith, we just have to get better, faster linebackers, and they just went and attacked it.

So Case Keenham had a rough night, turning the ball over five times, and the Redskins lost to the Bears that got so bad on Monday night that fans were calling for Dwayne Haskins. But head coach, Jay Gruden isn't ready to go to the rookie just yet. Season is not lost. It's not over. I know everybody wants to say it's over and the season's over. Go ahead and play Haskins.

But we feel confident we could turn this thing around, you know. So, you know, I'm out here at practice every day. We're out here practice every day evaluating everybody. If we feel like Duane gives us the best chance to win in a coming game, we'll definitely put Duane in there. We feel like it's a Colt. When he gets healthy, it could be Colt. But right now we feel like it's Case Keenham,

and we're going to move forward with him this week. Boy, is he big. Not really a good sign that he's saying the season's over if we put Dwayne Haskins in. either. I told you, I think Dwayne's going to work. I just think he needs time. But, you know, again, he falls into the Baker category. He's going to have to be better than average because of that ownership group. Yeah, he's going to have to overcome a lot of dysfunction. Finally, speaking of that dysfunction, the Browns have not looked great so far this season. And Freddie Kitchens might

already be in the hot seat. Leacher reports, Mike Freeman, spoke with two NFC assistant coaches who think he will end up being the scapegoat if the Browns can't turn things around. One of the coaches said it's not all Freddie's fault, but if this all blows up, he will get all of the blame. There's absolutely no doubt with that. This is what's frustrating about it because none of us know what to expect or what to make of Freddie Kitchens because we haven't seen Freddie Kitchens. I don't think anyone's rooting against Freddie Kitchens. It's just that we don't know what he is. That said, it seems like that higher being in a situation where you let Q Jackson go, let the offensive

coordinator go, and you have a young quarterback in Baker Mayfield and you bring in all of these high profile talented pieces, you might want to bring in a coach. that is of that level as well. I mean, is Mike McCarthy doing something right now? Not that saying that Freddie Kitchen shouldn't have gotten the job, but it kind of felt like it was Baker's decision, and then he doesn't really have the power to overrule someone like Dorsey in the organization.

Listen, if this offense, I've got Landry and Joku I had, Chubb, a battle line in Odell Beckham. This would be a challenge for Andy Reed. This would be hard for a veteran coach. Exactly, which is why it's unfortunate that Freddy's in this position. They could turn the season around. Who knows what's going to happen? It's obviously still very early.

Mike McCarthy would have been a good hire. Mike McCarthy would have been actually the perfect hire, by the way, because he's dealt with a quarterback with opinions. Right. And Freddie might end up being a good hire, but are they going to give him that opportunity if the brown season doesn't turn out with the expectations that everyone thought it would? John Dorsey's career now is tied to this.

If they go into the tank, Dorsey's not taking the hit here. Yeah. A joy with the news. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by. The Herd Lye News. I don't know if you suggested that before. McCarthy would have been perfect.

You dealt with some of the, you know, not nonsense with Aaron, but you deal with, like, media stuff. Like with Baker, you've got to be doing with the media because Baker's going to talk and he's going to draw attention. He's going to do national commercials. So W.C. Welterweight champ, Sean Porter, he's got to fight at the Staples Center in three days. Champ versus Champ is coming up and joining us.

Can't wait for that. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific. on Fox Sports Radio, FS1, and the IHeart Radio app. In just three days, it's Champ versus Champ as Errol. The Truth Spence Jr. takes on Showtime Sean Porter in a world championship unification bout at Staples Center. Plus, champion Anthony Durrell defends his title against David Benavides Saturday at 9 Eastern, 6 Pacific Live on pay-per-view or order on the Fox Sports app.

Only three times in 15 years has there been a, you know, a, um, um, um, Wellterweight unification bout. So this is a big deal. Sean Porter who is from Akron, Ohio. Hey, I know Akron very well. Yes, from Akron, Ohio. By the way, guys, do not use your girlfriend or your wife shampoo. Get your own. Dove Men Plus Care has created a range designed to give your hair the care at needs. Stay strong and more resilient available at Walmart. So good stuff today. We're going to have Sean on in just a couple of minutes. He's also Fox Sports Boxing analyst. This will be at the Staples Center. So what's interesting about this is Sean Porter, his father,

first of all he's from Akron, and he's not that far from LeBron James' age. So as he was a young guy growing up, his dad has been a long time trainer. LeBron James, the legend of LeBron James 15 years ago is being born in Akron, Ohio. Isn't that

amazing? That right now, Cleveland's got one of the best UFC fighters. They have Sean Porter, they have LeBron James. Isn't that, and it's amazing. Yeah. Let's bring him on. John Porter, WBC Welterweight champ. Sean, come on in over here. He's a huge Cleveland Brown fan,

which means he's all bummed out from Sunday night. It was tough. Sunday night was tough for you. The Brown's lost. They said, go, go, go, go. It was tough. Sunday night. So you're from Akron.

When you're getting into boxing and growing up, did you know about LeBron James? I'm actually from Northeast or I'm from Cleveland. So I'm born and raised in Cleveland. I know everything says Akron, but it's actually from Cleveland. I didn't catch on to LeBron until I think I was about a junior in high school. At that point, I was living in the Akron area.

So I didn't catch on to who LeBron was until I think I was about a junior in high school. And then you started hearing about him. Oh, it was amazing. Like what did people say about him? They say he was the next, they say back then he was going to be who he is now. And I'm just glad that he lived up to it all. Yeah, he's been a good dude, right? He's been a good dude on and off the court.

And you definitely from an athlete, I admire him to the fullest, not just because he's from Akron, but because of who he is on and off of the court. So this is a unification bout. You and Errol Spence, he is the favorite. You are going in as an underdog. Now, in most of your fights, you've been a favorite. Will you be, does an underdog make you more aggressive or more cautious? No, I don't know if it's corrected. I'm usually the favorite to win fights.

I think I'm usually the underdog. Well, you fought 30. If not, that's usually my mind. Yeah. Well, I mean, for me, for betting, at least, I don't think that started for me until maybe my 25th or 26 fights. So, you know, you don't get to be, you're not, you know, going out into the game, you don't, you know, you can't be bet on, you know.

Right. Do you feel like you should be an underdog in this fight? I don't look at it, you know. To me, I don't think there is in this fight. There really is no underdog in this fight. We both, this is an evenly matched fight. I think that, you know, there's some things that he's done in the sport and has made some noise in the way that, you know, some of the things I've done have been overlooked. But to me, this is a, this is an even fight.

Sean, we all know that styles make fights. When Pachiao fought Thurman, it became very apparent that Pachial's frenetic style gave Thurman a lot of troubles. Yeah. Styles make fights. I mean, Muhammad Ali gave George Foreman the style work to Ali's favor. That was the style of a lifetime right there. It was, was it not? So, Sean, talk about the styles between you and Errol.

I'm a very aggressive fighter. I think everyone, that's the question in everyone's mind. Can Arrow Spence handle my aggression? And, you know, I think my team, we've developed a way to use that aggression in an intelligent way. And also, I think in my very last. last fight, definitely my last two fights, I showed that I can box and use the ring. And so I think that with this fight here is just a combination of using both at the right times. So for me, this fight is not about one specific style that's going to work against it. Spence, the blessing is that

I'm a fighter that has multiple styles, and it's just about which style will I use at which point in a fight to take care of it. Have you ever had a fight, Sean, where mid-fight, like Thurman had to change his game plan about third round. He got knocked down in the first. Yeah. If you had fights, you're comfortable saying this isn't working, I'm moving to this. Yeah, with boxing, you have to be able to do what we call making adjustments. Basically, if your jab is not touching the guy, if you're one two, the basic punches

and boxing aren't touching the guy, you have to figure out what adjustment you needed to make in order to make those two punches effective. And so with this fight, we know that migration is going to be effective. We know that the body punching is going to be effective, but we also know that boxing from the outside and using the long arms and the speed is going to be effective as well. So it's just about which time do you use which style.

Now, I would argue that championship bouts are as much mental as physical. You're in a good spot now. You feel good about it? I agree with you 100%. I think that anything that you do at the highest level is just as much mental as it is. it is physical.

And I think that right now I'm in a place from a mental standpoint that I've never been in. This is the first time that, you know, I've been able to really hone in, not just from the physical things that I'm doing, but also the mental things as well. Like, what do you do? I mean, I'm taking notes. I got a notepad with notes from, I got two, three coaches over there. My dad, assistant coach, Barry Hunter. Your dad's a long time trainer.

Yeah, and then also another coach, Coach Larry Wade. My brother has been there helping me as well. He's text me notes. Everything that everyone's taught me and showed me through this camp. I've written it all down. It's their words, but it's my handwriting. It's my note, my preparation from a mental standpoint. Not to look too far ahead.

Floyd Mayweather, one of the great fighters pound for pound of all time. Do you believe he fights again? I don't think so. I don't know. My dad and I had a little discussion about that the other day. He thinks he will. I don't think he will. Do you wish you would have the opportunity?

Back then, I was, you know, we were all screaming his name. We all wanted it. Back then, I felt like I was, I was ready. I know now in 2019, when I said back then, I was, I'm talking maybe 2015, 2016. Back then, we all were saying his name and felt like we were ready. I know right now I'm ready to take on Mani Pachial, Floyd Mayweather, any of the greats out there. Are you shocked that Pachial is still as effective? No, I'm not. Why? I mean, we just talk. about it. When you get to a certain level, it's just as much mental as it is. He's winning the fights mentally. But there's also other things that come into play as well, the kind of lifestyle that you live. The kind of things that you do outside of the sport of boxing. For me, even when I'm not at

the gym training doing boxing workouts, I still go out and play basketball. I still get on the track and do track workouts. I still get out on bike ride. There's a lifestyle that comes along with being the kind of champion that Mani Pachial has been. And so when you go up against a young guy like Keith Thurman,

And not to say that he lives a bad life, but Manny Pachial has lived a life to allow him to sustain everything that he had when he first came into the game up until now. It's rare. It is incredibly rare. I covered Sugar Ray Leonard for a while, and sometimes boxing can be very cruel and it ends very quickly. And then you have the elegance of many. And like Roberto Durand was kind of cruel at the end. It was a bad last fight. It was tough for him.

How long do you want to do this? I don't know. I don't know. Like I said before, for me, at this point in the game, it's about me setting a goal, achieving a goal, and then moving on from there. Well, you have a great reputation. Can't wait to watch it. It's at Staples Center in Los Angeles. By the way, everything is going to be okay with the Browns.

The schedule was a little difficult. You're a Cleveland guy. Now, they're going to lose against Baltimore. That's going to be tough. Now, going into the season, after game one, I said, oh, oh, I don't know. For the Ravens, not for the Browns, but after game one for the Ravens, I was like, wow. And their consistency is getting it done. And Lamar's playing his tail off.

He's playing his butt off. He really is. Good luck to you. I got him to both my fantasy leagues. Get your sleep, get your rest, and good luck. You got it. Thank you. All right.

We're out. We'll see you tomorrow Thursday. Packers, Eagles. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. And nobody's telling you exactly what happens. That's where SportsSlyce comes in. I'm Timbo, and every episode we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the biggest

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This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. What's up, guys?

This is Clever Taylor the 4th. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff, like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker, this linebacker walks up to me. He goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Time out.

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