The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Aaron Rodgers Is A Tesla, Kyler Murray's Decision and Baker's Attitude

Episode Date: December 27, 2018

In this December 27th, 2018 edition of The Herd with Colin Cowherd, Doug Gottlieb--in for Colin--draws a unique comparison between the Green Bay Packers and their high-performance yet finicky quarterback Aaron Rodgers with a recent innovation in transportation that is in high demand. According to Doug, Green Bay needs the right coach to operate Aaron Rodgers correctly. Also, it's a match made in pro football heaven: Historically downtrodden yet upstart Cleveland pairs with a quarterback in Baker Mayfield who's as chippy as the chip on his shoulder. And for a number of reasons, Doug likes the overall career options of Baker Mayfield's Sooner predecessor, Kyler Murray. Guests include: Peter King of nbcsports.com, FS1 NBA analyst Caron Butler and longtime Los Angeles Clippers play-by-play announcer Ralph Lawler. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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One. Download the Hurd Now podcast. You like 10 million other people can get on board. Hope you're ready for an incredible new year. New Year's football. We got Christmas basketball we're still reacting to. LeBron's sitting out for the Lakers tonight. Man, do we have a lot to get to? A litany of talented guests as well. But let's start by checking in on one of the foremost franchises in terms of reputation in all the sports. The Green Bay Packers, Lambeau Field. And boy, do they have a lot going for him. Seems like they figured out their running back situation.

They have their quarterback under contract, albeit a hefty one for years to come, and they're the Packers. As they've reconfigured their front office, reconfigured their defense, they seem to be a play or two away even this season from being in the playoffs. And if they make the right decision at coach and get everybody on board, there's no reason to believe that they can't get back to competing with the Bears and with the Vikings for supremacy in the NFC. North. So the big question has been who can be the guy who commands the respect of the locker

more importantly the respect of number 12 all while authoring the next chapter in the Packers Legacy who could be that guy and we're beginning to get a sense that the Packers believe that in order to do this job you have to have done this job before. It's not crazy to think right that, hey, we want a guy with head coaching experience. Because in order to walk in front of a room of 53 men who have families and contracts to worry about and get them on board, we don't want some guy who just came out of college,

we don't want some coordinator who's never done it before. We're watching what's happened in Detroit. That's messy, right? We watched even guys that haven't called plays before called plays in Minnesota. that's messy. Aaron Rogers threw out some modest support of Joe Philbin going back to Sunday. That's interesting.

So look, Joe Philbin's been a head coach before in Miami. Then the news came out that Jim Caldwell, former head coach twice over. All right, look, he was head coached with Peyton Manning and the Colts, and that seemed to work out. It didn't work out as well with Detroit, but Detroit seemed better off with him than they did with Matt Patricia. there's a guy who commands respect. There's a certain amount of elegance with how he carries himself, right? He's not a firing brimstone guy, but he's also not asleep at the wheel. Like, I don't think Jim Caldwell is the best candidate in the world,

but you can do a whole lot worse than Jim Caldwell, considering, hey, man, he did in fact coach, did in fact coach the great Peyton Man. He managed that ego, that situation without stepping on landmines. All right. Well, who else did they call? Wait, who? Excuse me? Chuck Pagano? Listen, I get Chuck Pagano was a great defensive mind. Did get the job amidst a bunch of hope with the Colts. And remember, the Colts, the thought was, hey, we've gone offense, we've got offense, we've got offense, let's take a tip from that Ravens defense, right?

because the Ravens defensive family has given us Marvin Lewis, ups and downs, it's given us Rex Ryan, it's given us Mike Petton, who of course is part of the Green Bay Packer's staff as their defensive coordinator, and it's given us Chuck Pagano. The problem with hiring Pagano, well, there's two problems. Look, Chuck Pagano had Chuck Strong. He was unfortunately, really sadly stricken by cancer early in his coaching career

with the Indianapolis Colts. And because of that, like let's just kind of call it like it is. You can't, and it's like in the NFL, the lie is you never lose your job to injury, but no one ever loses their job to cancer, right? Bruce Ariens, no matter how good a job he did, it's not like you're going to go like,

hey, Chuck, we know you were out with cancer and fighting for your life, but we can't give you your job back. The problem with Chuck Pagano is there's one play that will live in infamy. Right? There's one play that is however fair, however unfair and it's mostly unfair.

They did go to the AFC championship game with Andrew Luck. They did have the greatest comeback in the history, statistically, in the history of the AFC playoffs when Chuck Bagano was the head coach. That did in fact happen. The problem

with Chuck Pagano is everyone remembers this play. You got Griff Whalen ready to take the snap. He'll snap it actually. Colt Anderson. is behind him and what in the world

flag is down the whole right side of the line was not on the line of scrimmage offense his penalty has declined the result of the play is first down for New England you got a guy on either side of him what are you doing here what was the plan I don't know I mean completely nuts

it was not figuratively it was literally the worst play call I have ever seen. Okay, one, whatever fake punt they wanted to call wasn't open, right? There was no, that the defense was properly adjusted to it. Two, even if it had work, it was an illegal formation, so it would have been called back. Three, the Colts had three timeouts. They could have simply used one if they didn't like the alignment. None of these three things happened. Oh, and if there's a fourth thing, it was against the Patriots, a game that everybody watched their arch rival or maybe their nemesis for the Colts for a long time when

they had Peyton Manning and even when they have Andrew Luck. It's the Patriots. Everybody's watching in a standalone Sunday night game. So it's not like it happened Sunday at 1 o'clock. We were like, man, that was really weird. We move on. No one's been able to move on from it. And look, there are other issues to Pagano as head coach as they got progressively worse. Some of it, not his fault because he worked for a general manager who traded a fourth overall pick for Trent Richardson. Not all his fault. But man, it's hard to take the Packers

seriously when that's the call that you make. I'm not sure if you guys are into viral videos. Some viral videos, I think, are fakes. Some are real. I feel like this one has to be real because it was shot from somebody else's car

behind a Tesla somewhere in what I believe to be Southern California. But I think it's an appropriate parallel or metaphor to what the Packers are caught up in doing. If you're listening to us on the IHeart Radio app or on your Fox Sports Radio app at some point, search this online. There's a video that's gone viral of a woman in Southern California, blonde hair back in some sort of bun, wearing a skirt, some sort of fake leather jacket,

and she pulls up at a gas station with a Tesla. and for three minutes in change, she attempts to look for the gas tank for the Tesla. She walks around, she pops the trunk, she looks in. Then finally, she opens up the charging dock and attempts to put gas into the charging dock. At some point, a gentleman comes over and informs her that's an electric car. There is, in fact, no gas tank. I'm sorry, it's a time sucker. You're going to send it to all your friends.

You're going to tweet it and retweet it. It's become viral already. There are people in all sorts of Malaysian countries that are laughing at us because this is how they view all Americans. This is how I view the Green Bay Packers. You got a Tesla. You got a really expensive, at times touchy, luxury automobile. You have Aaron Rogers. right? Aaron Rogers is a little bit quirky, a little bit touchy, a little bit sensitive,

takes things personally, carries a chip on his shoulder, knows he can't ever seemingly fight the Fav thing, even though in many ways he's a much more, much more efficient, smarter, better quarterback than Brett Fav. That said, he's a Tesla. He's a luxury item. And you're walking around trying to put Chuck Pagano in the gas tank, right? You're sitting there and you're like, hey, any head coaching experience, this is the thing about when you're hiring. If you're only looking for somebody with experience, what if it's really bad experience?

What if you were really bad at the job? Chuck Pagano's teams got worse, not better. Chuck Pagano teams at times seem to perform well in spite of, not because of him. When Bruce Ariens coached the team, they were better, better offensively. They made better decisions. And so even though Chuck Pagano has that checkmark for experience,

the signal you sent out to the rest of the league is, dude, you don't even care if you were a good coach as long as you've been a head coach before. All of America is rolling their eyes and cackling at the idea of Pagano because these buddies with Petten getting an interview. Hey, you got to give my guy an interview. No, no, we don't. Jim Calwell, legit candidate.

Joe Philbin. Legit candidate because, look, he was with the Packers before his offensive coordinator. He obviously has a relationship with Aaron Rogers. There's trust there. And though it didn't work out in Miami, all right, it didn't work out in Miami. It wasn't. Miami hasn't worked out for a million different coaches seemingly since Don Schuller retired. But that viral video looks a lot like the Green Bay Packers right now.

Where does this thing go? Where does this thing go? Why can't I find where the gas goes? because Chuck Pocano doesn't go into a Tesla. He just doesn't. Coming up next, Baker Mayfield can get away with this act for one main reason. I'll tell you why next. I'm Doug Gottliebottley.

This is the herd. Doug Gottliebun for Colin, this is the herd. Here on Fox Sports Radio and Fox Sports One. I guess the world does need an anti-hero. And on many levels, I understand kind of where the Baker Mayfield thing and how our embrace of it comes from, right? Like what Baker Mayfield's doing is a little bit like what the president kind of captured during his, uh, during his march toward election.

It really is. It's, we're just sometimes we're tired of everybody having to play nice and having to be politically correct. But much, much like there's a decorum that should be required for 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, there is a certain level of decorum that should be required to be a franchise quarterback in the National Football League, or at least that's what we thought, until Baker Mayfield came on the scene. Pretty amazing stuff, really, right?

A guy who was twice over a walk-on was essentially replaced coming off of injury at Texas Tech and then walked on in Oklahoma, sat out, earned his spot, and then became a Heisman trophy finalist and ultimately a Heisman Trophy winner. then marched all his way to being in the number one overall pick in the NFL draft. And it is one of those things we're like, hey, dude, look, you made it. You made it. And Baker understands what makes him who he is, is this, look, I've been told no. I wasn't a five-star.

Even if you want to make the argument that Baker-Mayfield could have had scholarship offers at lower-level Division I schools, the fact is that Big 12 schools didn't offer him. and that Texas Tech did find Pat Mahomes and Davis Webb to be better prospects, better talents that he was, and that's why he left and went to Oklahoma. So this massive bag of chips on his shoulder has come out several times this year. It came out on Christmas Eve when he tweeted at Colin Cowherd, this from Baker Mayfield's own Twitter account, quote, Merry Christmas to everybody. Enjoy the time with loved ones, especially especially,

time of year. Even you at Colin Cowherd, you Grinch. All right, I like that. I mean, because all Colin Cowherd said was, look, he can play, but he's a better version of Case Keenham. Case Keenum with a better arm. Same offense. Same historic numbers. Same success at college. Also like Case Keenum undersized. Same level of intelligence. Just slightly better arm strength. but a sizeable amount of ego which sometimes writes checks that his body can't cash.

Colin, like people I know in the NFL, said that Sam Donald's a better prospect and ultimately has the higher ceiling even though if he hasn't performed as well statistically as Baker Mayfield. What's fascinating about this is why it works, why it seems to be working. right? Like Kevin Durant tries to be the evil villain. And I don't think it's a racial thing,

although maybe there is a certain racial element to it. But it's because Kevin Durant's seven feet tall. But Kevin Durant tries to wear, LeBron James tried to wear the black hat when he left Cleveland and went to Miami originally. He tried to be like, come on, bring on the haters. I'm taking notes. I'm going to write it down. I'm going to remember it. It's a lot. It's a burden to carry. Now, one of the big differences is in the NBA, you can be put on an island and isolated. You have to play both ends of the floor. And Baker Mayfield is playing the most protected position in sports. So even if you want to level Baker Mayfield, you better wait until an interception.

And even then, you got to be very careful when you get a shot in because you get thrown out of the game. But Baker Mayfield, this act works not because he's, I don't believe, because he's white, although I'm sure there's an element to it. It's because of his story, because he's undersized, and because it's Cleveland. It should be noted that this winning streak or the wins that they have accrued, like who's the best team they've beaten? Carolina, Atlanta, Cincinnati? Baker Mayfield did beat the Baltimore Ravens.

That was before the quarterback change was made in Baltimore. Baltimore was a different club. It was an ugly game. They did, in fact, win that game. Let's not take away wins that he has. That's the one win over a potential playoff team that they have. And look, he walked into the perfect setup. They'd won one game the past two years.

He's replacing Tyrod or Terad Taylor, who looked like a guy who could not play the quarterback position, looked like a backup that he essentially is, who's a part-time starter. He was with a coach who appeared to be over his head. He's in a city where everybody leaves. and a team that quietly has accrued a bunch of talent during the past couple of years. And if you go back to last season, the last couple years, didn't have quarterback play,

didn't have the right skill position play. They had two top five picks. They used them on guys that were ready to play and ready to play right away, and they both contributed greatly eventually. Right? Like, it works because it's Cleveland, not just because it's the Browns, because the Browns have won seven games this year.

They're 7, 7 and 1. They're last play schedule, and they're one win away against the Baltimore Ravens on the road, one win away from being above 500, which seems like they'll throw a victory parade for being 8,7, 1. Part of success or part of perceived success is based upon expectations. And the Browns have been the laughing stock of the NFL the past couple years. And so considering, I mean, remember, they gave away games based upon their kicking game and laughable errors the first couple games in the season. Even with to Rod Taylor, they gave away a couple games because they're a kicking game.

But everyone said they were actually picked. Many people who covered the NFL picked them to compete for the playoffs this year because they do have talent. They do have dudes there. They did spend a bunch of money. They went out and got Jarvis Landry from Miami. They have drafted well in the defensive line. But because they won one game in the past two years,

because LeBron James has twice left the city, because they're kind of the laughing stock, because it's Baker Mayfield who's 6'00-1-1-1-1-W-on-Rudy type of story in terms of our imagery. I mean, like, look, I think it's a great story, but let's not kid ourselves. He was, in fact, the number one pick of the NFL draft, right? Like, he won the Heisman trophy. We painted as this complete underdog story. Yeah, teams missed out of high school. teams missed on a transfer.

No one missed. If he didn't go one overall, he was going in the top 10. The Jets were going to draft him because they thought Sam Donald was the rightful number one overall pick. Or maybe the Giants wouldn't be dumb enough to take running back over a quarterback. But they were. But because of the narrative, because it's Cleveland, because it's Baker, somehow we become super cool with Baker continuing to run his mouth. and like, look, I get it, I understand it.

This is what he said yesterday in regards to the admitted stare-down of his former head coach, Hugh Jackson. Everybody's different. Everybody leads a different way. Everybody's competitive in a different way. I'm not trying to be anybody else. I've been who I am that's gotten me here. I don't have to make any friends outside of this locker room. I'm not trying to do that. Once they're in here, they know exactly what they're going to get. And that's what really matters. That's what really matters? It's interesting because he's, he's, actually made Hugh Jackson, who can't coach, right? Can't coach as a head coach, into a sympathetic figure.

You're like, wow, I actually kind of feel bad for Hugh Jackson. Like, look, when we go back and look at it, Hugh Jackson might not have wanted Baker Mayfield, might have wanted Sam Donald. Probably, by most reports, wanted a quarterback going back to last year in the first round of the draft. But they didn't take one. That wasn't his choice. He was overruled in terms of what.

they want to do. Remember, they wanted to trade for AJ McCarran last year because he just wanted somebody who knew his system who could get the ball out, get the ball out to guys out in space and give himself a chance, but he didn't have it. And so, yeah, Hugh Jackson shot himself in the foot. If you listen really intently to some of the things he tried to paint as what went wrong, Hugh Jackson was given Todd Haley. That wasn't his choice. You know, John Dorsey said, here's your offensive coordinator. New Jackson's always been an offensive guy to bring somebody from outside of the family who Pittsburgh was done with. That's a hard thing. And they got fired because they couldn't get along. He got fired

because he couldn't get along with an offensive coordinator who he didn't hire to begin with. But by rubbing his nose in it, rubbing his nose in it, which is what Baker did. And he's done continually since getting the starting job and winning games of Cleveland Brown. He's made Hugh Jackson into some sort of sympathetic figure. We're like, wow. Like just because you can be a D-bag doesn't mean you should be. But in Cleveland, it works because no one's ever loved Cleveland. People have said they love Cleveland, but no one ever. And when you haven't been loved before any, it's like pound puppies, right? You go adopt a pound puppy, you'll never feel the love like you get, they'll lick you to death. They'll be the most loyal dogs ever,

right? That's what everybody says about a pound puppy. And that's what Cleveland is. They're pound puppies that Baker Mayfield adopted and took in as his own and they're completely loyal to him even though no one does this. You just don't. I mean, look, it's not president of the United States, but there is something to that. There's a certain level of decorum which comes with the job. Do I love the politically correct? Hey, this is a great team that we just beat. We competed really hard. They competed really hard. We were very fortunate. Right? Like, We don't, do I love the Russell Wilson where he has to mention every different guy on his team and then give the thanks above for that third down conversion? Not really.

Okay. It does seem fake. It does seem forced. But this is the other side to it. And while competitive nature and competitive makeup has absolutely made Baker and he has the edge. You don't want him to lose that edge. But there's a way to have the edge inside the football field, right? inside the 100 by 50 and yet

handle the position with clash and maturity, something he has yet to learn. And he may learn the hard way. There is going to be adversity. We have seen rookie quarterbacks come in. Look, past completion percentage since week 10, fourth in the NFL. Yards per attempt first, they're throwing the ball downfield.

He's taking chances. Should be pointed out. The wins are against some of the worst defenses in the NFL. The Bengals are a little bit better since Marvin Lewis took over, but they were on a path to being the worst defense in the history of the NFL. He's played them twice. Congratulations on beating the Raiders who are trying to be bad. Congratulations on beating the Falcons who are going to fire everybody

because they've been that bad and they're that banged up defensively. The reality, they lost the Raiders. The reality is Baker-Mayfield's been good. The team is playing better. He should feel good about himself. But you can feel good about yourself without smashing other people along the way, without stepping on the ones that you felt like held you back in the past. All right.

Let's get to rhyme music with the news. No, no, no, no. Turn on the news. This is the herd line news. Well, Doug, you just spent quite a bit of time there talking about Baker Mayfield. Do you remember the RV in HBO's Hard Knocks that Baker Mayfield and Tyrod Taylor were doing their film study in? Yeah, the Tarad Taylor. Tarad Taylor. You're correct.

Yes, yes. Yes, I do. How would you like to own it? Okay. Because it could be yours for the low price of $195,000. That's right. The RV made famous by Baker and the Browns quarterbacks is up for sale right now by the Neff Brothers RV company in Ohio. Yeah, you know, listen, I have friends that have owned RVs, right? They've done the thing. I would rent an RV, not buy an RV, but they are kind of cool, right?

Like, just pile a bunch of stuff and go do road trips. But I don't know if, it's obviously overpriced because it's Baker and Tarads, right? Not because that's above MSRP, or above whatever the Blue Book. It says a 2019 luxury Class A, Forest River, Georgetown, 377X7-XL motorhome is MSRP, $195,000. Yeah, but nobody pays MSRP. I'm sorry. Nobody pays, what's the Kelly Blue Book on it? That's what I'm looking at, right? And I want to play below book. I want to pay below a book on it. It does say that the vehicle comes with the original contract that was signed by Baker Mayfield.

So maybe that's why the price is inflated a little bit? I like it. Would I buy it? No, but it is a good gift if you have, if you're an old person, you want to drive around football games in the state of Ohio. We're all wondering if you could talk to Colin Cowherd and convince him to buy it so they could put it out here on the set. Listen, I'm not going to, I'm not going to sit here and tell you how much Colin Cowher makes, you can Google and figure that out. I'm just saying that it's within his range?

That's within his range. Okay. That's within his range. You think they would approve him on that loan if he needed to take out a loan? I don't think he'd be paying in a loan. Oh, really? I think he would be approved. That would be amazing, actually.

That'd be a great purchase, right? And then he should drive it to Brown's camp in the off season. Also, see, you're really good with these sorts of things. Do a live remote from Brown's camp. That would be a live remote from Brown's camp. Why not? Any promotion is good promotion. Now, would you rather have this RV or the one that Philip Rivers drives,

where he studies film on his way from San Diego to L.A. and back? Oh, Philip Rivers. No question. Because this is all custom made? It's all custom, you know? Although Philip Rivers, he's got eight kids. I'm sure it comes with Cheerios and Goldfish all somehow stuffed in the seats in there. But I would rather have Philip Rivers. That looks, it's much smaller.

It's more cost effective. It's more fuel efficient. But also, it's more set up for watching games and probably gaming as well. Well, looks like you can't go wrong. way. We'll stick it here in the NFL, Doug. The Indianapolis Colts and Andrew Luck are 10 and O versus the Titans in Andrew Luck's career. But according to Luck, that doesn't matter at all going into their winner take-all match coming up on Sunday. Winner win advances to the playoffs. Luck says we're not talking, we're talking about going 1 and 0 this week. The cycle starts over.

What had previously happened, what happened in previous years doesn't matter. What happened last weekend doesn't matter. So the 10-0 record doesn't matter to Andrew Luck apparently. I agree with that. I mean, like, look, this is where people don't understand odds, right? Like, they think that there's some, well, you know, if you've beaten somebody 10 times row, the odds are really stacked against you because, you know, now if you have a 50, 50 shot, it kind of multiplies. Like, no, every game stands on its own. I know that betters will tell you there are trends. And then if you go to historic trends, that you take Andrew Luck on the money line every time

because he's dominant over the Tennessee Titans. this is a different coach, a different roster. Heck, it might be a different quarterback than he faced last time they faced the Tennessee Titans. We don't know who's going to play quarterback for the Titans. Might be Blaine Gabbard. So do I think they're a three and a half point favorite on the road in a essentially a playoff game?

Do I think Luck's going to win? Yeah. But do I think history is the reason? No, I don't. Andrew Luck definitely fits into that mold of quarterbacks who never say anything controversial. Correct. Always says exactly what you would expect him to say, totally vanilla, right up the middle, never offends anyone. Yes, yes.

And look, and I said this to Colin going back a year ago when I sat on this couch, we talked about Baker-Mayfield. Guys that play with Baker love playing with Baker. They just, there's something, he's got, he's a force multiplier. He has a magnetic quality to him where guys get behind him and they love this stuff. I'm just telling you the rest of the league is like, dude, what are you doing? And here's something. Look, they got a substitute teacher in Cleveland. You got an interim head coach.

So as much as Greg Williams can say, hey, we want to be accountable. And Greg Williams isn't really empowered to hold Baker-Mayf. And Greg Williams might be the one guy who would let Baker be Baker, but that's not even the point. If you're the interim head coach, the rookie quarterback can get away with this. Nowhere else in the league would you be allowed? Would you not be called and go, hey, dude, cool it. Cool it. the Patriots certainly are a team that would make him sort of keep it a little bit more tight-lipped.

Right. Wasn't it Wes Welker who got, he had to sit the first quarter of the Jets game in the playoffs because he had all these references to feet because they were playing Rex Ryan who has a noted foot fetish? Right. So, I mean, like, look, that's the difference there. Now, obviously the Rex Ryan thing feels more personal, but also it was funny. Whereas this is just like, you just kind of being mean at some point. Like, let's just move on. Right. Well, speaking of the Patriots, Doug. The other day we heard Tom Brady discuss his future. He definitely wants to play next season in

2019 and even beyond that, how long we don't exactly know. But his head coach, Bill Belichick, well, he gave his thoughts on how much longer he thinks Tom Brady could be playing. And right now, I think it's a one-game season here. So just concentrate on the Jets and worry about next year and next year, worry about next week, next week. We worry about last year or some other year. The always boisterous of Bill Belichick. on his future Hall of Fame quarterback. I do think that, like, that's the last thing they can think about right now. Like, we'll think about it.

But that's the way in which you have to kind of process your mind. You can't think about nostalgia and possibility of coming back. And, like, look, even Tom Brady, I'm sure, is thinking to himself, but I've got to see how I finish this thing up. Like, no one wants to go out there embarrass themselves, right? No singer wants to go when their voice is gone, or, you know, someone who dances at a show wants to go out and perform some routine when they,

can't move anymore when their hips are hurting their knees are hurting and no a quarterback wants to play when they can't play. Does the competitive ego in Tom Brady think he can keep playing? Yeah. But he got to play better than he played the last couple weeks because he has not played well. And this feels like, you know, Peyton Manning's second to last year. His last year he was just bad. He just wasn't good.

I feel like Peyton Manning's last year is giving Tom Brady extra hope. Like if Peyton was that bad and they won at all, there's no way I can't go out there and do the same thing. I honestly think that's what the Broncos have thought the past couple years. Like, hey, look, we just have good enough defense and we can figure out a running game. You know, we got good enough guys to make catches. Like, we don't need a ton of offense if our defense and kicking game is good enough. We won with Peyton Manning, who is on his last leg.

Why can't we? I do, that's false hope. That's a lot of things have to go in your favor in order for that to happen. That's the news. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by. The herd lie news. I saw this story and I found it to be super, super interesting.

It does, it does relate really to Baker Mayfield. So most people thought that before, you know, the week leading up to the draft, Sam Donald should be the guy. He was the number one pick. Remember Sam Donald at his pro day, it started raining in Southern California. And he threw through the rain and people, and, and Dorsey was sitting with Sam Donald's parents. You're like, dude, that's a rap. If he can throw in the rain, he's Sam Donald,

everybody likes him. You know, they have to Rod Taylor. He can learn. He was only 20 years old. So they turn around and draft Baker Mayfield and Dorsey says he reminds him of Brett Farv. So that, of course, put the ball in the court of the New York Giants.

The Giants drafted Seekoine Barclay. And Seekoine Barclay has had some amazing moments as a rookie with the Giants. I will give you a stat which will prove my hypothesis to be a fact or a theory, right? A theory is a hypothesis proven with scientific data. It will prove it to be accurate and true based upon one stat alone that the New York Giants made the wrong selection.

That's upcoming next. I'm Doug Gottlieb. This is The Herd. Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays in noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox sports radio, FS1, and the IHeart Radio app. Doug Gottlieb in for calling this is The Herd on Fox Sports Radio, Fox Sports One, the IHeart Radio app. Of course, you can always download the Heard podcast. The numbers continue to be outstanding in the Heard podcast. The New York Giants are in that, they're in that middle area, which is just, it's

purgatory, really, right? It's called NFL Purgatory. It's also called quarterback purgatory. Doug Whaley wasn't a particularly good general manager of the Buffalo Bills, but he talked about the fact they were in quarterback purgatory. And that's where the giants are. Like we can kid ourselves and sit there and go like, hey, you know, Eli Manning hasn't been terrible here at the end of the season.

He hasn't. But is he going to be better next year or worse at 38 years old? Turns 38 next month. At likelihood he gets worse. He showed a lack of arm strength when the season was actually important. Combined that with the fact that they gave a contract to O'Dell Beckham Jr. After three months of offseason good behavior, O'Dell has rewarded them by sitting out with a thigh contusion the past couple of weeks.

Thigh contusion. He also questioned the play calling in different parts of the season. he went Cam Newton business decision on an on-site kick. Remember, he was on the hands team. His sole reason for being on the hands team is to go and get a football. He was on that hands team. Ball came right towards him, and he elated like Roger Dorn on a short hop in Major League. Well, early in the film, Roger Dorn.

End of the year, Roger Dorn was taking bullets into the chest, right? That contract is a disaster. It's a disaster because Odell Beckham Jr. is exactly who he thought he was. Loves to be filmed catching balls and warm-ups. Won't go after a ball when it's on the ground to help his team

secure a win. Is that really the stuff of a guy who should be paid at a top-level wide receiver or maybe above that of a wide receiver? The answer obviously is no. He's a diva. He's a malcontent. He's everything we thought he was. And he simply fooled Giants management for three months, acting like he was some sort of great dude.

great teammate, which he's not. Because if he was, he'd be playing this Sunday. Meanwhile, I saw this stat. Now look, I think Sequin Barclay's good. Does anybody not think Sequin Barclay's good? No one done things. Should you take him as the number two pick in the draft when you never select in the top five, you need a quarterback. It's a quarterback heavy draft. And the number one prospect at quarterback wasn't taken by the Cleveland Browns. And the team you share your stadium with trades three picks to get behind you. Well, apparently the answer is take a running back. Sequin Barclay, second overall pick, is the first in the NFL with six runs of 40 yards or longer.

That's a great stat, right? He is a home run hitter. The Giants are tied for last in the NFL with just 63 rushing first downs. When it comes to picking up first downs on the ground, the Giants are actually no better this year than they were last year. when their running game was so bad, they allegedly needed to spend a high first-round pick on a running back. Sequin Barclay is the Aaron Judge of the National Football League. Great home run hitter.

But dude, we need a guy who gets on base. We need singles and doubles. We need first downs. You win based upon first downs. Not home run shots. And oh yeah, by the way, Donald has been as good or even better than advertised in terms of his toughness. putting up with the fact

he has a bad offensive line, he has marginal surrounding talent, and it's a wait till next year approach with a new coach and new teammates along the way. Oh, and if you been listening to the news, Justin Herbert, who of course, the quarterback out of Oregon, likely to have been the first quarterback

off the board, he decided, thanks, no thanks, I'm going to stay in school for another year. Based upon every big board you will see, Dwayne Haskins is likely to be the first quarterback taken, and Haskins is somewhere between the 15th and 25th best prospect. He won't go 15 to 25. He'll go top five because quarterbacks are overvalued,

because they are, in fact, that valuable, more valuable than a running back. But the point is, last year you had a deep quarterback draft. You could have had the number one prospect on most everybody's board. you could have had an heir apparent to Eli Manning. And now you're so stuck, there is no real legit top prospect. And the new story is that Eli Manning would love to come back and play. And he's likely to remain the starter at least the beginning of next year. And this always works out well for the Giants, right?

Remember Kerry Collins? No, actually, that didn't work out well. Kurt Warner, that didn't work out that well. And this won't work out that well either. because there are no prospects for them to draft. But at least you have, at least you have Odell Beckham Jr. who is playing through pain with all that money that he's made. Oh, wait, he's not.

Here's the ironic thing, right? Would we all agree that the Colts kind of butchered when they had Andrew Luck, that he didn't give him a good enough offensive line, they didn't give him good enough skill position players, that ultimately led to injury? obviously the snowboarding thing after the first injury made it worse but we'd all think like the Colts but remember the Colts bid a do to Peyton Manning

when they had a chance, drafted a quarterback number one overall and they were awarded with 33 wins in his first three years in an AFC championship game. Instead the Giants are 500. They're okay. There's somewhere slightly below 500 and Eli Manning's going to be worse next year

and there's no real hope for the future. because whoever they draft at quarterback, if it's Haskins, you're liable to pay too much for a guy who, truth be told, is not the level of prospect we saw coming out last year. He's just not. They screwed it up. From how they handled Eli? Not last year. Last year, they actually handled it the right way.

They actually said, hey, we got to get some other guys going here. We got to see what else we got. We got a plan for the future. That got the head coach fired. That got the general manager. fired, doing the right thing for the franchise's future. Doing the wrong thing, trying to protect Eli, playing him well past his prime. Like, look, this is, you know, anybody's who ever gotten a piece of meat from the sale aisle sits there and goes like, man, I don't know, should have been sold

by yesterday. You take a chance, you take a chance. You open it up. You're like, it doesn't smell great, but it doesn't smell terrible. That's what the Giants are doing, throwing Eli out there for another season. But they're going to do it because there's no better options. And they screwed up taking Sequin Barkley, not because he's not a great home run hitter because that's not what you need. You can find a guy who hits singles and doubles in the second, third, fourth, and fifth round.

Instead, congrats, you got a great home run hitter. There's never anybody on base. Never anybody on base to clear off those bases when he does hit a movement. shot. All right. We got a great second hour for you here in the herd. Peter King is going to join us. We'll get his thoughts on week 17.

We'll get his thoughts on some of the interesting interviews that the Green Bay Packers have decided to conduct, including Chuck Pagano, former Colts head coach. If you have any shot or is that simply doing a solid by one of your guys? And got to talk about the games this weekend. from Baker going to Baltimore to the Steelers playing at home in what feels like a game in which they should dominate, to the Vikings and Bears and Kirk Cousins trying to prove that forget all the yards and some of the touchdown passes, can he win a game they have to win to get in the playoffs? And oh yeah, by the way, Andrew Luck and the Colts, and we'll get Peter's pick for MVP.

But come up next, Kyler Murray is a Heisman Trophy winner likely to play baseball. While skipping out on football is a mistake. I'll tell you next. What up? Welcome in. This is the herd wherever you may be. And however you may be making this part of your day, thanks so much for listening, for watching on the IHeart radio app, Fox Sports Radio, are hundreds of affiliates nationwide, serious XM. And of course, Fox Sports One, happy holidays to you. Whatever holiday you celebrate, hope you're having a great one. Hope you don't have to work. And you're sitting here watching ball and yaking on TV. Thanks so much for making this part of your day. I'm Doug Gottlieb in for a call on Cowherd. You know, there was big news yesterday that affected both college football and the NFL. The Red Box Bowl, which you'll be able to see here on Fox Sports One,

features Oregon and Michigan State, disappointing year for Michigan State. And frankly, kind of a disappointing year for Oregon, considering Justin Herbert's prodigious talent. But yesterday, on social media and regular media, Justin Herbert announced that he's going to return to Oregon for his senior season. Herbert was likely to be the first quarterback taken, and when you're going to be the first quarterback taken, you're at least in the discussion for the number one overall pick. It is kind of a unique year where many of the teams that are going to select at the top of

the draft don't need a quarterback, right? Like the Cardinals, whatever they think about Josh Rosen, they're not going to close the book on Josh Rosen one year in. They're just not because they took a quarterback last year. They may fire their head coach, but they're not going to, because we've seen that work with the Rams previously, when they had a number one overall pick who didn't wow us in his first year. You know, Jacksonville, in the market for a quarterback. The Jets, not in the market for a quarterback.

The Raiders, we don't know. They can get out of the Derek Carr deal for, I think, $4 million of dead cap money, maybe $5 million of dead cap money, or they can ride that wave out as he's, he's, he's, perform better, better the last couple of games under John Gruden. Lions don't appear to be needing a quarterback. Tampa Bay, we think they will, but we don't know. James earned back his starting spot, but we'd be the start next year. Like, it's not last year we knew.

Bills needed a quarterback. Jets needed a quarterback. Giants needed a quarterback. Browns needed a quarterback. Like, we knew all of those things. and we assume the Ravens would be looking as well as other teams. But with Justin Herbert off the board, I'm staying, I'm off the board, that means there's going to be backfill.

And someone who would have been a second or third round pick or the second, who would have been the third or fourth quarterback taken, may now will be taken not just in the first round, but high in the first round. If I were to ask you as a sports fan, You're watching the show, you're probably a sports fan, right? If I said, hey, you got a chance to sign a pro baseball contract or an NFL contract, which would you sign? And I would say, and this is just a guess, 95 to 99% of you would say,

baseball, right? Baseball. You can play baseball forever. You never get hurt. Guys make 100, 200, 300. We still don't know what Bryce's home. Harper is going to make when he becomes a Dodger, which seems like a formality, short-term, long-term, John Carlos Stanton, he could be playing the NFL, but why?

He's playing with the New York Yankees. Oh, if you're going to do it, do baseball, it's not close. And, you know, if you look at it as John Carlos Stanton's contract, Bryce Harper's contract, Clayton Kershaw's contract, you're right. But that's not actually the question. would you be a first-round draft pick as a quarterback or sign as a first-round draft pick as a baseball player? Here's the thing.

The common misperception, misconception is baseball players make a ton more money. And on some level, they do with 100% guaranteed contracts, the Albert Pooleholds contract, you pick the famous, Mike Trout's current contract where he makes 30 plus million, his next contract's going to blow all those out of the water. But all of those players were professional baseball players for five or six years before they ever made a big payday. I bring this up all the time. Aaron Judge, when he signs his next contract, is going to receive in the neighborhood of $200, $300 million for the life of his deal. Aaron Judge has been a professional baseball player for five years out of Fresno State, five.

he made $600,000 contractually this year. It's positional, based upon positional dependent, if you're going to be a running back, that's one thing. Alignment, that's another thing. If you're going to be a quarterback, hold on now. The idea that, well, NFL players average careers or three years or less or four years or less, maybe if you're a special teams guy,

if you're a return guy, if you're a dime a dozen slot-wide receiver, you're right. If you're a quarterback, it's different. different, right? Kirk Cousins signed an $80-plus million contract. Now, Cousins, like a Major League Baseball player, didn't make much money his first couple of years in D.C.

Then he made over $20 million guaranteed for two consecutive years as a franchise taggie, $45 million. Then with this deal, about $85 million guaranteed, right? So how's our math working now? $130 million in a five-year stretch. by the way is baseball money. And he'll be back on the market again. How do I know that? Because he's a pocket passer. And pocket passers like baseball players last forever. Don't believe me. Eli Manning's 38. Tom Brady's in his 40s. Philip Rivers could race a pregnant woman. His wife's

been pregnant plenty of times and come in third place. He's not a good athlete. And yet he started, what is it, 207 consecutive games? Because we can and do in fact protect quarterbacks in the pocket. There are football players. And if the decision is, would I be a football player or a star baseball player? I pick star baseball player. But we're not talking about one to find star baseball players and two, we're not talking about football players. We're talking about quarterbacks. And if that's the decision for Kyler Murray of Oklahoma, it's an easy call.

And that call should be football. Think about it. Justin Herbert decides to stay in school. That makes Kyler Murray suddenly now in play to be the second quarterback taken. And while you can sit there and go, he's tiny. He is. He's five foot nine. He's got small hands.

But he's been described to me by an NFL GM as Doug Flutie with Mike Vic athleticism. A great brain for playing the position. Son of a coach played at two big time schools. And of course, won the Heisman trophy in the air raid system, which has produced Case Keenham, who even though I think he's overpaid. I don't think the Broncos made the right decision. He's still a starting quarterback in the NFL. and has produced Baker Mayfield.

All these guys are going to be undersized, air raid guys. Maybe he's too small, but somebody's going to make that mistake. And he's going to get four years of guaranteed money, and here's the kicker. If you sign a contract to be a baseball player, which he has already signed as $5 million guaranteed, he is not a major league baseball player. He's owned by the Oakland A's,

who some would say are not a major league baseball team. but he's not guaranteed to be in the major leagues. And it's not until you're in the bigs for four years when you become arbitration eligible. And then and only then do you start to make real money and you'll only make that real money if you really produce? As opposed to playing in the NFL, all the first round draft picks play. And by the way, any of this nonsense that NFL contracts aren't fully guaranteed,

that's not true. First round draft picks contracts are fully guaranteed through the first four years. How many times do we have to see a team say, hey, you know, we're not going to sit this guy, we're going to redshirt him, we're not going to play him, and then they play him. He may fail. Like, look, the Browns didn't even give

Baker Mayfield first team reps in training camp. Didn't let him play with the first team because they wanted to redshirt him. They wanted to pat Mahomes him. Let him learn. But at some point, you're going to play him and he's going to be paid, and during the first four years, he'll get to see if he's an NFL

quarterback. And if you can be a viable NFL, you don't have to be any good. How many years is Blake Bortals held on for? And by the way, how much money does Blake Bortals make? $18 million. Fully guaranteed and guaranteed next year. Oh, listen, marginal baseball players make a killing. So do marginal quarterbacks.

And the difference is when you're drafted in the NFL, you play in the NFL. When you're drafted in Major League Baseball, you go to the abyss of the minor leagues. It's easier to be drafted in baseball than is in football, but once you're drafted in football, you're actually playing in the NFL. And while I would agree with you if you said, hey man, you're a slot-wide receiver, you're going to be some gadget play guy, you could be Tavon Austin, you can be in the league, out of the league, you'd be useful, not useful, you get beat up on a kick return, you could, all that's true. But if he can learn to play from the pocket or roll out from the pocket like Russell Wilson, you can play for 20 years.

If you don't believe me, we've got a bunch of marginal athletes that are lighting up the NFL throwing for 3,000 and 4,000 yards in their 15th through 20th season in the NFL. If you ask the average American, they would say, baseball, easy call. Football, come on. But then when you look at it and you say, it's not football, it's a quarterback. And it's not Major League Baseball versus the NFL. It's the NFL versus minor leagues.

And maybe at the end, Major League Baseball. It's not easy as a decision, as you might think. yeah, by the way, here's the kicker. If he stinks at football, he can still go back and play. Easy call. It's just the exact opposite easy call of what the common sports fan would think when they sat down and I started asking you, should Kyla Murray play baseball or football in the upcoming season.

By the way, he's playing against Alabama. The likely it is that like Baker Mayfield and what he did against Georgia, Alabama has always struggled with run-pass threats, the air raid system. He's their entire offense. some big numbers. He's going to throw for 350 plus. He's going to run for 75, 80 yards. They might not win the game, but OU's going to score. He plays for a great play caller, has some great skill position players around him. His value is going to skyrocket

because people are going to look and go, you know, we thought Baker was too small, but he's not. And I know he's smaller than Baker, but, you know, he actually has better stats than Baker. He's a better athlete than Baker. And he seems to maybe have a better, more workable personality than Baker who rubs some people the wrong way. Mark my words. When he looks at it, he will understand that in terms of finances, it's actually a no-brainer in the opposite of what most people think. All right, coming up next, Peter King joins the show.

Are the Packers seriously considering Chuck Pagano as their next head coach? I mean, seriously. I mean, think of Aaron Rogers' body language when he heard that Chuck Pagano was interviewed as their head coach. Oh, boy. We'll discuss that with Peter King. Upcoming next in The Herd. Back in the Herd, Doug Gottlieb in for Colin Cowherd,

as Ryan Music makes his Fox Sports One promo debut. Congratulations to you. I hope the entire music family, as well as the in-laws, or future in-laws that you live with. That's not creepy at all. Record that one on their DVR. Appreciate you letting everyone behind the curtain there, Doug.

You can listen to the Doug Gottlieb show every day, noon to three, Pacific Coast time, three to six, Eastern time. Fox Sports Radio.com is a great way to find your affiliates. If it's not on the current affiliate or the IHeart Radio app, you can download the All Ball, which is an all basketball podcast. I also do for the Hurd Now podcast network. Peter King joins us as he joins Colin every week from NBC Sports.

And Peter, a happy holidays to you, getting ready for a great, happy new year, waiting for Week 17 of the National Football League. I woke up today to a story of Jim Colwell being interviewed, and I thought, He's a respected guy. He coached Peyton Manning with the Colts. He coached with the Lions and they weren't terrible when he was there. That one makes sense.

And Chuck Pugano also interviewed by the Packers. That one's a little bit of a different level of respect to that interview. What's the likelihood that he's a legit candidate to get this job? I don't really think either one of those guys is going to get the job, Doug. You know, one of the reasons the Packers made the move when they made the move is, So they could be up front in the open and basically say, okay, look, we're conducting a coaching search starting right now. We're not hiring Joe Philbin.

Joe Philbin's going to coach the last month of this season. And then we're going to have a new coach sometime in January. That's what they're doing right now. They can't interview Josh McDaniels now. They can't interview Lincoln Riley now. And look, I'm throwing those two names out there. I don't know if the Packers will have interest or will interview them. But I do know that one of the reasons that Mark Murphy, Brian Gutakunstyn, Green Bay,

said we're making a coaching change when they did is they wanted to be first in line with a lot of these guys. And they're doing their fact-finding now. And that's all this is. What's your take on the current state of the MVP? You know, Pat Mahomes still has a game in which they need to win to get secure home field throughout. The Saints don't. So we're not going to see Drew Breeze this weekend. Who would get your vote for the NFL's MVP? You know, Doug, I've thought about that a lot over the last few days. I've been away for a few days.

And I've thought about it a lot. And I'm really, really kind of on the edge of the sort of Damocles on this between Breeze and Mahomes. It's obviously going to be one of those two guys. And I respect the arguments from both camps. the fact that Mahomes is probably going to throw for 50 touchdowns at least. He's got 48 now. And the fact that Breeze has been on the biggest winning team in the NFL this year,

and he's at another very good year statistically with a lot of injuries in New Orleans. So I think either one of them would be a very good choice. The thing I hate about this time of year is when the argument for Drew Breeze is, well, you can't vote for anybody other than Drew Breeze. Or the argument for Mahomes is, oh, come on, it's ridiculous. It's open and shut. It's not open and shut. It's a good case for both guys.

One of them is going to win, unless like in 2003, when it was Peyton Manning and Steve McNair, or I think it was 97 when it was Barry Sanders and Brett Farve tying. One of those two guys is going to win. The shame of the MVP voting, at least in my opinion, is that the Associated Press, which does the voting, basically mandates that you choose one. In baseball, you know, you pick whatever it is, five or ten, and then they give you a point system, you know, for number one is worth ten, whatever it is. And I wish that was done in football because the closeness of the race between Mahomes and Breeze probably is not going to be. reflected in the final vote talent.

Okay, you still didn't give me an answer, though. If I ask you, you're going to have the associate president. Because I don't, yeah, I don't know. I'll know it's Sunday night or Monday morning. I'm quite literally, I'm not saying I don't know. I'm not saying I don't know when I know. I don't know. And I've got to spend a couple of hours this weekend, which I do every year on my

award picks, rookie the year, all that stuff. and I'm going to take it very seriously, and I'm going to pick one. And I'll let you know in my column Monday what it is. In terms of true value, man, like, look, he's going to win comeback player of the year. But in terms of true value, and I know their defense is remarkably better, their running game is much better, their offensive line is much better. But what Andrew Luck has done with the Indianapolis Colts, if you actually want to use the word value,

I'm not sure there's a greater argument that anyone could make in terms of someone's personal value to a franchise. fair well yes but you know what would have happened if if john doe would quarterback the kansas city chiefs this year or the new orleans saints you know i understand what you're saying he's been an incredibly an incredibly good piece and he's played a little bit differently this year dug too he's getting rid of the ball faster which is important but they've got quentin nelson there he's been very, very good first-round draft choice by the general manager, Chris Ballard, and their defense is markedly better. So Andrew Lux has been the biggest returning piece to that. And also,

I'd make this point when you see. And he probably is going to win comeback player of the year, but I'm not sure whether I'm voting for him or whether I'm voting for J.J. Watt. Just remember, J.J. Watt, the last two years, has had a deba. debilitating neck slash back injury in 2016. And last year, he had a compound broken leg, which was extremely dangerous. And coming back from both of those, it's one of those two guys. And if either one of them wins, that's fine with me. But I don't think that's an open and shut one.

At least it isn't to me. Peter King for NBC Sports joining us here in The Hurt. I'm Doug Gottlie, filling in for Colin. Tom Brady hasn't played well the past two weeks. He says he wants to continue playing. Obviously, Bill Belichick's not giving us much anything, and there doesn't appear to be an heir apparent in the building. But you talk to everybody in the league.

Everybody answers your calls and tells you, what's the league saying about Tom Brady and his recent struggles? That this is one of the weakest supporting Cassie's had around him in 18 years of starting in New England. You've got whatever it is, 75% of Rob Grunke, You traded away your best wide receiver. You tried in Brandon Cooks. You tried to invent a franchise receiver in Josh Gordon.

And he obviously, as he has throughout his career, imploded and he's gone. So, you know, the Patriots do not have the kind of targets that other quarterbacks in the league have for their very good quarterbacks. Andrew Lux's got T.Y. Hilton. He's got Eric Ebron. You know, you look at the targets in Kansas City. Look at the weapons everywhere. Even look at the weapons in Chicago for Trubisky. And Tom Brady doesn't have that. I would dare say that the weapons that Tom Brady has, you know, if you lined up, you know, one to 12 in playoff teams, he wouldn't be in the top eight or nine for his weapons. So, and again, I'm not saying I don't think Brady has played well. And I think he would be the first one to say that compared to other years, he really hasn't been great. That's one of the reasons. I think Josh McDaniels has done a fantastic job, week by week by week, figuring out with different game plans every week, who to feature what to do. And so I think the Patriots are still going to be a tough out in the playoffs,

but this is not the same New England team. And you're right about that, Doug. The Bears traveled in Minnesota to take on the Vikings. Vikings in a clear must-win situation in order to get into the playoffs. Kirk Cousin statistically has performed really, really well with the exception of primetime games, obviously. And I think to anybody who looks at it reasonably, hey, the quarterback market was slim last year in terms of free agency. They got the best one. They weren't even the highest bidder towards Kirk Cousins.

But how important is Sunday for Kirk Cousins and the Vikings? I'm glad you asked that question. I think of all the players in the NFL in week 17, the one with the most pressure on him to play well and to win a game for his team in some difficult circumstances because the bears are good, obviously. The one with the most pressure on him is Kirk Cousins. No question about it. Remember two years ago when he left Washington and basically was, at the,

I should say, when he was thought to be leaving Washington, at the end of 2016, they play a game against the Giants. He plays horribly. If they win, they're in. They're not in the playoffs. Then he leaves Washington this year, and he goes to Minnesota, and Minnesota pays $28 million a year. They don't pay that to have good statistics and to lose a win in your in game against the Chicago Bears, a division rival. He's got to win this game. And again, what's going to happen if he doesn't win the game?

Not a lot. He's still going to be the quarterback of the team. But it's going to be a very, very dark day in Minnesota. If they don't make the playoffs, after going as far as they did last year with Case Keenham, they spend a lot more for Kirk Cousins. And he doesn't get him to the playoffs. That would be a bad day for Kirk Cousins. How surprised are you at the Seahawks resurgence this season, considering last year, end of the year, destroyed really by the Rams. There was the embarrassing loss that preceded that to the Jaguars, kind of the end of the Legion of Boom,

and here they are kind of back in play. Russell Wilson on Sunday night football, running around, making incredible plays downfield. They seem to fix the offensive line, fix the running game, defense with more no names that they were able to go get. How surprising, have you been? the results been to you, Peter? Well, I'm the worst soothsayer in NFL media history. My prediction stink. But when I left the third preseason game between Seattle and Minnesota, where the ones

played against each other into the third quarter, when I left that game, I remember thinking, man, the Seahawks look a lot better than I thought they would be. And I thought the Seahawks would be okay. I wasn't sure they'd be a playoff team, but I thought they'd be okay, 500 or maybe a little bit better. And the reason is something that Pete Carroll told me after this game. And he said, Peter, here's what is great for us now. We can really have like the competition Wednesday that I got used to having at USC. And I got used to having early on in my Seahawks career. If you're paying players huge money, you can't.

go into every Wednesday during the practice week and say, hey, whoever plays best in practice this week, you're getting a lot of snaps on Sunday. It doesn't exist when you have three quarters of your secondary making $8 or $10 or $11 million. And when you have big salary guys on your, you know, all over your depth chart. So I think the Seahawks are happy to get back to more of a blue-collar non-star team than they've had in the past. And it's shown this year. I think the Seahawks are going to be a very tough out, almost no matter where they play. I completely agree with you. The last thing, the Eagles now need to win against the depleted Washington Redskins this weekend.

And Foles is once again going to be their quarterback. Now, Doug Peterson came out yesterday and said that Carson Wentz is, in fact, their guy. Is there any question about Carson Wentz being their guy if they get to the playoffs this year? No, I mean, I don't think so, Doug. because they have basically put all their chips on the table with Carson Wentz. They're going to try to sign him, you know, at some point to a long-term contract near the top of the market. And you can't sign two quarterbacks to do that.

And I know everybody's going to say, well, Foles this, Foles that. And, you know, Nick Foles has been fantastic. And on another team at another time, the Eagles would say, man, we're lucky to have falls. He's our guy. But just remember, you know, about 57 weeks ago, you know, one of the top three or four quarterbacks in football was Carson Wentz. He didn't forget how to play quarterback. He just had injuries this year that didn't allow him to play quarterback at a Carson Wentz type level. And unless the team doctor, you know, tells Howie Roseman, Doug Peterson, that, hey, there's something wrong.

There's something chronically wrong with Carson Wentz. I doubt sincerely they're going to have any sort of second thought. And I think that more likely, Nick Falls is going to be the quarterback of Pick 1, Tampa, Jacksonville, Miami, the Giants, Washington, whoever, in 2019 and beyond. Peter King from NBC Sports, we await your MVP pick next week. We got Black Monday, which we know is coming. next week. And, of course, the playoffs will be set on Sunday night after the game on NBC Sports. Peter King of NBC Sports. Thanks so much for joining us here in the herd. Thank you, Doug. Pleasure is all mine. It should be pointed out, should be pointed out,

that one of the reasons that Carson Wentz was kind of pushed back to playing a little bit before he might have actually been ready was not just Carson Wentz, was that Nick Foles was awful in the preseason and awful earlier on in the season. Obviously, he's played well recently, but he's a Ryan Fitzpatrick right short term great great dude totally understands who he is

and what he is long term we fall in love with what we've seen most recently when NFL teams would tell you it's whence and it's not really close he's still nursing the knee and of course now the back injury let's get to Ryan music with the news no no no turn on the news this is the herd line news Doug, you know the old saying, the enemy of my enemy is my friend.

I do know that saying. Apparently, that's what's happening now between Steelers and Brown fans. Antonio Brown of the Steelers posted on his Twitter account for our TV audience. They'll be seeing the picture shortly. Three different Antonio Brown jerseys with an S put at the end because, by the way, the caption says, who else has their hashtag 84 at Brown's jerseys ready for Sunday? The reason being, in order for the Steelers to get into the play, The Steelers themselves need to beat the Bengals, but then they also need the Browns to upset the Ravens.

So apparently Steelers fans are now Browns fans and living in harmony rooting against the Ravens. There's another expression, too, that something makes fraud bedfellows. What is it? Something makes for odd bedfellows. And anyway. I'm lost on that one. Yeah, somebody Google that one. Something makes for odd bedfellows and tell me. It's a weird place to be in.

This is a lot like bowl season, where you end up. cheering for a team that's in your conference because, you know, like, bowl games don't matter unless it's your conference winning a game for conference bragging rights. So, you know, like Georgia fans don't like, you know, they don't like Auburn. They're, you know, oldest rivalry in the South. They definitely don't like Alabama, but they want Alabama to win a national championship to prove SEC supremacy. This is different, right, where you're actually rooting for the Browns,

to beat the Ravens, but you're doing so for your own, you know, for your own benefit, because you want to make the playoffs. A really interesting, something makes curious bedfellows. That's what it is. I'm lost on the expression. Misery acquaintance a man with strange bedfellows. That's what I'm being told. Misery acquaintance a man.

I think there's a, there's a 2018 way of expressing that, which is a little bit, a little bit clearer. Anyway, that's Shakespeare. So we use Shakespeare to greater benefit. I think it's awesome of Antonio Brown. I just think it's an amazing place where the Pittsburgh Steelers, like people are looking at the Saints game. Obviously, they beat the Saints.

There's no past interference calls. They don't fumble. Juju Smith-Schuster doesn't fumble and none of this happens. But if they beat the Broncos or the Raiders, none of this happens. Bad one. Yeah, I mean, look, at least the Raiders, you could say Ben Rossburg had to take a shot. Ben Roxburgh had the ball there, like the one foot line, and he throws the interception to a defensive end.

But why is it even that close to be? with when the Raiders are clearly trying to lose games, especially late in season. They didn't try and lose Monday night. I generally agree with you. That's true. Fair enough. Well, Doug, Laker fans had a large sigh of relief yesterday when they found out that it was a groin strain, not a groin tear, but a fellow NBA star who's dealt with groin injuries in the past is Steph Curry. He missed 11 games this season with a left groin strain. He gave some advice to LeBron. He said, according to the undefeated, you got to take the first four or five days. off. That's my experience. You have to let the healing process start. That is one you really can't

rush. That is how I felt because it was such a delicate area. So, Steph Curry, letting LeBron know, hey. Delicate area. I like that. Delicate area. Just take a seat on the couch there, LeBron. Well, he's not going to Sacramento tonight. So he is taking it easy. And we'll see. The groin, it's not as bad as the hamstring, but there's a lot of similarities there where, you know, Those are injuries where you think you're okay and you get back to stretch and you get back to play. And then all of a sudden it'll go again. It's just one of those soft tissue deals like you never really truly know. And even after you know you're good, you still might not be good.

But yeah, I mean, LeBron is going to be on the couch. His ability to heal will be called into question and he'll have time. I think it makes for an interesting game tonight in Sacramento. I want to get to that upcoming. Why I think this is an audition for one particular player that's super important. Okay. Interesting. And we'll wrap up here in the NBA, Doug.

Last night, the Timberwolves got a win over the Bulls in Chicago. They were led by Derek Rose, 24 points, 8 assists, 3 rebounds, and actually take a listen to what happened in the fourth quarter with Rose at the free throw line. As we know, Rose spent the first seven years with the Bulls, won an MVP award, led them into the playoffs, then he dealt with injuries, then he left in free agency. They kind of let him walk, but either way. Good for Derek Rose. Bit of a redemption story in the NBA.

A bit? Let's remember. He went AWOL on the Knicks, then went AWOL on the Cavs. Then, even after last year, you know, last year he only played nine minutes, 12 and a half minutes a game with the Minnesota Timberwolves. He was working out like an L.A. fitness. You know, like working out at... Pulling the Mello? Huh?

Pulling the Mello? No, but Mello was working out with other NBA dudes. Like, he's just in a random gym with some dudes, like, just working out working on his game. And now he's bad. He had a 50-point game. game. He's made himself into a... Think about this. He's not just a 45% three-point shooter. Here's his numbers from three over the last five years. You ready for it? 28%, 29%, 21%, 25%, 17%. And now he's shooting 45% from three.

17? 17? That's awful. Of course. He was a bad shooter. He was a great athlete who had lost a step because he had had repeated knee injuries and everything kind of broke down. But this is as great a story of a personal comeback. This is about a guy getting into a gym and fixing his game. And about a guy getting into a train room, working with the right people, changing his diet, and changing his body. This is an amazing story. Is he the MVP of the league?

Like, no, but he once was, and he completely fell off the NBA planet. He went AWOL on the Knicks. They couldn't find him for two days. There's no human being on Earth who wants to be found that can't be found. That's how bad it was. And now he's back and he's shooting far and away by 25 percentage points higher than his career average from three-point range. And he had a 50-point game. There is no better story in sports of personal perseverance than Derek Rose this season.

That's the news. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by. The Hurd-Lie News. All right. Tonight in Sacramento with LeBron James on the couch is an audition. It's not just for all the young Lakers. it's for one young Laker in particular.

I'll tell you who that is next in The Herd. Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd, weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific. Doug Gottlieb in for calling this is The Herd on Fox Sports One. Fox Sports Radio. If you've got the dreaded stuff he knows, this cold and flu season, try Vicks sinex nasal spray, a couple of Synex sprays and works in seconds. Clear your nose and last up to 12 hours. Be ready when condressed in the show.

Strikes Synex nasal spray use as direct as my daughter Harper watching, she can use some of that. Can I get a supply of that? Because she just just, just Colin, can we make that happen? Can we, can we make that make that happen? Colin's going down the slopes right now. Like he's, Colin's a huge skier. He loves skiing. He skis with his son all the time. He and Jackson, that's kind of their thing, right? They bond through skiing. My thing on skiing, look, growing up a basketball, basketball player basketball family, we don't usually ski. We just don't. You don't have one the time in the winter or the ability to hurt your knee. But I enjoy hitting the slopes. My problem with the slopes is it's a little bit like, frankly, it's a little bit like golf. I'm like, all right, I've gone up,

I've gone down. I put the whole outfit on. I got the rush of going down the mountain. I don't want to go through the double black diamonds where I could die. But I'll do something fairly challenging and I can do it with my kid like that's cool. But then I'm like, I'm, I got skiing ADD much like I got golf ADD. I'm like 14th hole. I'm like, all right, let's wrap this thing up. You know? When you're listening to songs now, you can just skip to the next song.

And, you know, you play pickup basketball. Like you're playing to seven by ones. Or you're playing, you know, 15, twos, and threes. That thing can end pretty kind of quickly. You can walk away. Like you're like halfway up the mountain. You're like, I'm kind of done here. I'm kind of checked out.

Finished. I just, I can't imagine like three or four or five days of skiing. That to me I have zero interest. None. I prefer to watch hoop. Play hoop. Watch football. Play football with the kid.

Anyway. Speaking of hoop. The Lakers, what's amazing about Chris, Christmas Day games is that it is a little bit of an elixir and it covers up some of your warts. As much as the Lakers were playing amazing basketball coming into their game against the Warriors, a 127 101 win on the road against the Warriors with LeBron James in the training room in the fourth quarter. They had actually lost three of four coming in. They had lost four of six coming into that game.

You're like, really? Like, yeah, they actually weren't playing good ball. They lost at home to the Grizzlies. They lost to the Nets and to the Wizards. And of course, they got stomped by the rockets. But what many people have said, and it is on some level, accurate, is this is a great continuing audition for many of the younger players. Brandon Ingram is back healthy.

Now, they're not going to have Rondo tonight, and this is coming off of Rondo's 15.10 assist performance in closing the game out against the Warriors. Not going to have Rondo, not going to have LeBron. You got all the young cats, right? And Lance and some of the others. I think tonight's game is huge for one Laker in particular. That Laker is the one who seems to be discussed the most last year and the least this year. That's Lanzo Ball.

Lanzo is the de facto point guard when the bronze in, even though the bronze is really the point guard, right? Lonzo Ball is averaging nine points a game. He actually statistically is playing better when LeBron's on the floor. He plays off the basketball and he gets in some in transition. And now he has to run the team and try and create offense for himself and for others. And he's doing so against Deerrin Fox and the Kings. And Deerrin Fox, of course, looks across the court and sees the guy who was the number two overall pick in the same draft class and thinks it doesn't even matter to the Kings.

kind of like how the Lakers being the Warriors made the other losses, the four of six losses, kind of meaningless. If the Kings who lost to the Clippers last night beat the Lakers, last night doesn't even matter. This is a huge game for Lanzo who wasn't very good against the Grizzlies, didn't do much against the Warriors, so much so that Rondo actually led them to the win. And though he's had big games like 23 against Brooklyn,

we played as good a basketball as you can play. play. He's had some stinkers, some clunkers as well. He's been kind of all over the map. All over the map. And last time they took on the Sacramento Kings, they won, but he was two of ten from the floor. Ew. Whereas Deerrin Fox had 21, seven rebounds and two assists. He's going against one of his contemporaries. It's his team to run. There is really no backup. There is no LeBron. There's no safety net, but there's also no excuses. This is Lanzo, time. Show us your growth in year two. And I'll fully

admit, while he's more athletic, he didn't get the offseason to work on his game to refine his game. He's trying to do it on the fly. But he's had plenty of games to kind of work through it, and this becomes a massive game for Lonzo Ball's present and future,

future with the LA Lakers. His ability to commit, every NBA player is like, look, man, if you pro-rate my numbers, if you give me 35 minutes, I'm going to give you 20. and 10. Every guy. Well, now you've got a chance. There's no backup. There's no LeBron. There's no ball-dominant superstar. Show us in year two, you can be anywhere near what people thought you would be before year one. And you're going against a second-year player who the Lakers thought was

better than Deerrin Fox when drafted because he had a higher ceiling. All right, we got football next hour. Give you my thoughts on Nick Foles and Carson Wentz and why the choice is really, really, really easy. for the Eagles. Plus, the coaching search with the Green Bay Packers has taken an odd twist how it relates to a viral video. But coming up next, I'm going to ask Karan Butler about the Lakers. What do we expect of Lonzo? Now it's his team to run for the next couple days.

What up? Welcome in. This is The Herd, wherever you may be. And however you may be listening to the show, thanks so much for making it as part of your day. I'm Doug Gottlieb in for Colin Cowherd. And for the next hour, we got a great third hour of the show for you. Tough Juice. Karan Butler NBA champion, former All-Star, is going to join us on the couch.

So to a legendary Clippers broadcaster, Ralph Lawler, will join us. We'll ask him about the change in culture that the clippers are trying to sell the rest of the world on to land one or two of the big name Free Agent Fish in this upcoming offseason. So we've got some hoop to talk about upcoming. Let me start with the National Football League, right? The Packers did this thing, which I actually think is smart. I actually think is smart. Everyone knew Mike McCarthy was getting fired. And when they lost to the Arizona Cardinals, they're like, that's it.

We're out of the playoffs. That's a wrap. Let's just cut bait now. It actually helps Mike McCarthy so he can, in addition to trying to find another head coaching job or an offensive coordinator job, probably head coaching job. it also allows him to go out and see bowl games to evaluate other coaches when you're when you're in the throes of a season you know it's always interesting i've worked with hundreds of analysts in college basketball and and every company our company or the two previous companies that work for they're no different you want the big name head coach that just got fired right the problem with that guy is

they've been worrying about their team and maybe their league for as long as they've been in with their team and their league. They haven't seen the 340 other teams. And when you're coaching in the NFL, like, you don't see everybody else. You don't see the college kids. Like on Saturday, you may watch a game, but you're not going to actually scout a bowl game. They did a solid

by McCarthy. It felt bad at the end, but everyone knew what was going to happen. They're like, we're not waiting until Christmas. Let's just cut the court now. And it also allowed the Green Bay Packers to go do their due diligence. Let's interview as many people as possible. Let's evaluate people in person. Let's go and watch them coach on a Sunday in person. Let's spy on their

play calling, their level of preparation. Let's talk to everybody. Otherwise, you make these really quick hires. Boom, boom, boom, boom. And sometimes when you make a quick call, you don't always make the right call. But then the Green Bay Packers did something which only strikes me as odd, which is yesterday they apparently talk with Jim Calwell. All right. Been coached the Colts. Pretty well respected guy. Did a decent enough job with the Lions. Like, does he have a vote? passion, are you like, yes, all our problems are solved with Jim Colwell? No, but you could do a lot worse, right? You could do a lot worse. I don't think anyone ever said his tenure was a disaster with the Lions or his tenure was a disaster with the Colts. He won a lot of football games. Did he win

enough? No. Did he always manage the challenge flag well? Not really. Timeouts, no. And when he was in Indy, he managed the team while Peyton Manning famously waived the defense or kicking team off the field. But that might actually work in Green Bay. Like, ah, right. Green Bay is run by all Green Bay guys, and they looked outside of their football family for a potential answer. That's not crazy. But then they also brought in Chuck Pagano. And I hold no ill will towards Chuck Pagano, and I understand why this happens, right? In sports, as in life, you got to have a rabbi in the room. You got to have somebody leaves in you, somebody who worked with you or coached you previously, and Joe Philbin coached with him previously, and Mike Petton, Philbin in the offense, Mike Petten, the defense, they both coached

with him. And you know what? So they granted him an interview. But boy, that's a tough one. It's a tough one for Philbin. Seen as a good guy, seen as a defensive guy, an all-around, likable human being. But man, when you remember that fake punt in India against the Patriots, when you remember some of that mismanagement of the Colts, the hires he made with an offensive coordinator and then making a change mid-season, you're like,

when you have Aaron Rogers, you got to make smart, smart decisions, not just in terms of who you hire, but who you interview. Because the last thing you want is to turn Aaron Rogers off to the entire process that you're going through. and when you bring in Mike Patton, everybody starts to roll their eyes. Excuse me, when you bring in Chuck Pagano, everybody starts to roll their eyes.

It reminds me of, have you guys seen this viral video? We showed it to you a little bit earlier. There's a viral video, there's no doubt in my mind, this is in Southern California, of a woman who's clearly driving a Tesla for the first time that might not be hers. And she's walking around the Tesla, and she's looking for a gas tank to put gas in. She's at a gas station. She has her door open and she cannot find the gas tank. She pops the trunk.

She looks on both sides. Ultimately, what she's looking at now if you're watching us on Fox Sports One is where the plug goes in. And she actually took out the gas hose and tried to put it in there. And then three and a half minutes later, three and a half minutes, somebody comes up and goes, hey, lady. This is going to be really funny to you. But this is an electric car. You don't put any gas in it. Now, look, for the record, Toyota Priuses, right?

They're gas electric hybrid, some of them, right? You can actually put the Chevy Volt. You can put gas in. So it's, but the image of watching a woman try and find a gas tank in a Tesla is kind of like the image of the Green Bay Packers, having a Tesla, having a luxury item, like Aaron Rogers, and trying to put Chuck Pagano in the gas tank. God, I love L.A.

I just, I love it. Between the car chases and videos like this, I can't get enough. I don't think that either get the job, but I do think that when you start bringing out names like Chuck Pagano, you're like, really? That what we're doing now? Hugh Jackson going to get a call next?

Is that what we're doing next? We'll do Hugh Jackson next. Is Jeff, was Jeff Fisher not available? could we bring in Jeff Fisher? We were looking for 8 and 8. We won a Jeff Fisher. All right, let's turn to the NBA. I mentioned that I thought the Christmas Day game,

the 127-101 win by the LA Lakers against the Golden State Warriors, was as much about the Warriors as it is about the Lakers. I feel like we may be missing because we're also dismissive of bad Christmas Day games by Steph Curry. we seem to be dismissive of the warriors who are kind of a mess right now. Let's bring in Karam Butler. Tough Juice, of course.

You see him covering the NBA on essentially every network. As respected to former NBA players as there is covering the sport, former all-star and NBA champion. Juice, Merry Christmas to you. Happy holidays. Happy holidays. What's going on? Okay, let's go with the Lakers. Let's go back to Christmas

Day. Pretty amazing what the Lakers have been able to do and kind of turn around this roster. The game got cut to three when LeBron goes out with injury. And then Rondo takes over. He starts working in Zubach inside. And they crushed the Warriors. How much of that was about the Lakers?

How much of it is about what the Warriors are going through right now? I think it was a combination of both. I have to say that it was a lot about the Lakers, you know, being able to respond in the face of adversity once your leader go out. And that's the reason why you got guys like Ray John Rondo. in that situation and you got Zubak, you know, someone that's been prepared and ready

for that moment. The second LeBron goes down, it's like one of those situations in which collectively, how are these guys going to respond? And they did an excellent job of figuring it out on the fly, you know, and I think he was proud of him. I think he was in the back, you know, rooting him on

and, you know, looking at his young Thundercats, you know, perform at a high level. How big does it become? Ron was not going to play tonight. They're playing against the Kings. Deer & Fox let him up last time. Deer & Fox was kind of in that conversation for the number two pick. Lonzo's been up and down this year. And frankly, a lot of times he plays better with LeBron off the basketball. Now it's going to be kind of his team to run for the next couple of nights. How important is this stretch for Lonzo? It's huge. And a lot of people don't understand, like you look at Lonzo ball, his situation.

Injuries, missing half of the season. And everybody know this is law in the NBA. you're a rookie until your first game of your second season. Right. But you also, that off season is huge, and he didn't have really the off season because he's coming off of surgery. Yeah. So like now all of a sudden he's able to be available in play. So he's really like just coming off his first full season, this season. And he has a couple games under his belt.

And he has an opportunity, which you touched on with a guy like Fox, who's going to be his, you know, his rival for pretty much the remainder of his career because those guys are drafted. Same draft class. They have, you know, a ton of history. And, you know, they look forward to, you know, getting the best of one another from years to come. Who of those Lakers would you be willing to part with if you're going to make a deal for Anthony Davis? Who are the guys that you're like, look, I like you, but I don't love you enough to keep you to go get Anthony Davis?

You can't give away everything, but it's certain guys. When you talk about Anthony Davis, he's on that short. Shortless, LeBron, Hardin, K.D., Steph, Kauai, Greek freak, those guys. So when you talk about what do you give up, you don't want to give up everything, but you're going to have to give up something and people who you've grown to love that have, you know, no sillings on their talent. And the names that's going to, you know, ring a bell and, you know, jump off the screen at you if you're the Pelicans, if you're looking for a wealth of young talent is,

you know, Brandon Ingram. Ball, Kuzma, Zubak now, the way that he's performing. Those are the guys that have, you know, a paramount of value in this game right now. Yeah, I don't think, Kuz is the one I don't think they would give up. He's been amazing. Yeah, I think Ingram they would give up.

Lonzo, they'd probably give up. The question for me would be, would they give up Hart? Not because Hart is the greatest player, but everything they want him to do, he does. He has some limitations, right, in terms of, he's probably not a starter or if he's got to be your fifth best starter, but in terms of the culture that they've tried to create and a guy who makes shots and a guy who doesn't need,

he's a low-maintenance guy, he doesn't need plays run for him. Feels like Hart is outside of Kuzma is the guy they would most want to hold on to. Fair? Yeah, it's fair. He's a winner. He's a guy that really understands, you know, his role and how you could plug him anywhere. But if you're Anthony Davis, and I know you want to be loyal to an organization, but you can't be loyal to a fault. because you're on that short list, which we just discussed,

and you don't ever, like, your legacy is going to be compared to other greats and the ghosts that you're chasing. You know, that's something that you have to think about. And the teams that get it right, the organization that has got it right in years to pass, are the Los Angeles Lakers, the Boston Celtics, the Maverick, Chicago Bulls, the Golden State Warriors, San Antonio Spurs, Miami Heat. Like, those are the teams that's winning championship. Antonio Spurs. You know, like, those are the teams that have won in the past, and you want to

attach yourself with a great organization. All right, let's get back to the Warriors. Karam Butler, Tuft Juice, joining us. I'm Doug Gottlieb filling in for Colin. This is the herd. Draymond Green is 11 for 49 from 3 so far this year. And no one's guarding him. No one's guarding him. And I don't know how many people have talked about this. Like, look, when they get DeMarcus cousins, he's no longer going to be the five. He's going to be the four. It changes them defensively, almost changes his value too, because his value was he could guard one through five, now they have to change kind of all their rotations, now they do things. I don't think their bench is nearly what it used to be.

I don't think defensively they're nearly what they used to be. I'm concerned. Steve Kerr says he's concerned. What's your level of concern if you're the Warriors right now? I'm not concerned, not one bit. And the only thing that I feel like they miss is that stable vet, that guy in the locker room, which is David West, you know, that was able to have that balance and that other coach, that other extension of the coach in the locker room,

on the plane rides, on the bus rides, all those things. Because look, they're a playoff team. They're playoff ready. They're a team like now, if they're having these problems come in the March, first week of April, I'll be a little more hesitant to, you know, comment. But right now it's early. and the stories get old, you know, seeing each other, like all those things. Like, it's just the same-o-same-mo until it's, you know, championship runtime.

I watched Kyrie play on Christmas Day. I thought he was the best player on the court. I didn't think it was particularly close. You mentioned the guys that the names atop the league. Why do you think he's not mentioned in that top five, top-10 guy? I think a lot of people would say, you know, for years he's been the best robin, you know, in the association. but now he shifted to the Celtics

and I think if he was healthy that entire season last year immediately once you think of the top players or the MVP list you would just throw him in there immediately but we was a rob due to injury you know for that half a season but now he's putting the world the basketball world back on notice he's back out there doing what Kyrie does and he's doing it at an amazing clip

And I think those guys are now, you know, buying into, okay, this is our leader. Let's follow him and he'll take us there. Karan Butler is joining us. What about the other side is the 76ers where people are like, look, Ben Simmons is not a point guard, can't shoot. So it's hard to play through them at the end of a game. How fixable are the issues the Celtics have, considering how their roster is now constructed with Jimmy Butler? Yeah, look. Philadelphia, like when you look at Ben Simmons, he's not going to develop a jump shot this season.

so it's going to take time. I think he's going to be a guy that's going to be a high volume, high player usage guy still going downhill attacking. You're going to have to find ways to utilize Jimmy Butler as much as possible. He's been real reserved because he wants to fit in. He don't want any issues. He don't want to be a story headline in any negative way going forward. So Joelle and B is going to be the focal point of offensively. He needs the touches that he needs, but he has to understand that he has to scale down to a certain degree because you're playing with great players. You're playing with Jimmy Butler. You're playing with a JJ Reddick that can knock down shots. That's a shot maker, not just a shot taker. And then Ben Simmons does need the ball. And then

at some point, you're going to insert Markelle Foltz back into the fold of things, too. So, like, it's things like that that you have to be aware of. And I think, you know, Philly is trending in the right direction. All right. Last thing. DeRose returns to Chicago last night. They start cheering, Chan, MVP. And like, look, I can't think of a more amazing story. I mean, this dude, like, people forget, he went AWOL from the Knicks, and then he was with the Cavs. He made sign for $2 million a year. And then he went AWOL from the Cavs. And even last year, at the end of the year, people were like, man, maybe Dave Rose, DeRose will hang it up.

To go, he's shooting 45% from three. Amazing. Right? He's changed his body. He's changed his role. He's changed his game. And, I mean, it really, can you think of a story that's a parallel to this? I mean, like, Sean Livingston came back from a devastating news.

Right? Like, Sean Livingston might not walk again, lose the leg, comes back, but he didn't drop 50 in an NBA game. Like, this dude's unbelievable. Listen, I think that any athlete, any player in the association that's looking for someone to be inspired by or you're going through something, dark days or anything like that, and you're just trying to figure out, you're trying to find your niche again and your rhythm and your flow and your groove. Look at Derek Rose situation. This is a guy that straddled offense of, I don't know if I'm going to be able to play again, whether I'm going to retire, whatever, comes back, got released from Utah. You know, went through that whole situation and just his reemergence and how he's been able to dominate this season, inside, outside, speed, quickness, explosiveness. I'm so happy for him.

Congratulations, brother. I'm happy for you. Same thing. The ability to fight through adversity is an amazing part of his makeup. That's really remarkable. Karan Butler, Tough Juice, NBA champion, former All-Star. You see him and hear him on our network on Fox Sports Radio as well as Turner and every network covering the NBA and, in fact, college basketball. Thanks so much. Thanks, brother.

All right. Kauai Leonard to L.A., but the team might surprise you. We'll discuss next in The Herd. Doug Gottlieman for Colin. This is The Herd. Thanks so much for joining us. Ralph Lawler, legendary play-by-play voice of the L.A. Clippers. will join us. We'll ask Kim, is the culture really change or if they just said,

hey, we've got new guys, the culture's changing culture. It's kind of a narrative in college and professional sports. Ralph's going to join us momentarily here in the herd. First though, let's get to Ryan Music with the news. No, no, no, no, turn on the news. This is the herd line news. Well, Doug, it looks like the Ryan Tannihill era in Miami may be coming to an end. The Miami Herald is reporting. The dolphins are prepared to move on from their quarterback because they are no longer going to owe him any more money. He is owed 19 million

over the next two seasons, but according to the way the cap works, they can cut him and it's no longer guaranteed money. So Ryan Tannanhill era could be over in Miami. Yeah, I mean, look, he was hurt half of this year. I was actually there, you know, the day they found out that he wasn't going to play against the Bears. And so some of this is about availability. I mean, look, in totality, if you look at it, it's a pretty good story. Here's a guy who was a tight end in college. His first couple of years became a quarterback and then a first round pick and then a starter actually threw for 4,000 yards.

Like, had a couple of decent seasons. But I just don't think he's good enough. I don't. And I don't think most people would argue with that. The problem is, like, once again, they're still looking for the next Marino. puts them in a market for a quarterback win. The obvious answer doesn't exist, whether it's in the NFL draft or via free agency. So does it be, do they become a landing spot for Nick Foles?

You know, who else can they reach out to in terms of who will be available in the upcoming offseason? I think it's going to be fascinating because as much as you want to move on, you're okay. Moving on from Tanyhill, he is a good leader. He is athletic. Guys do like him. Coaching staff is tied to him. He does know their system.

I mean, he's better than Brock Oswald. his backup. Not very hard to do that. No, but the problem becomes like, look, if you don't like him, who is out there who you'd like better? Teddy Bridgewater, is that become, are you willing to go out and overpay for Teddy Bridgewater who signed a basically $1 million deal with the Jets and traded for a third round draft pick as the insurance policy with the Saints?

Like, is that your guy? There's just not a ton of options out there. Well, we'll see what the Miami quarterback position. bears out over the next few months. Matt Patricia, former New England Patriot defensive coordinator, now head coach with the Detroit Lions, has a bit of an issue with punctuality. Several reporters in the Detroit area have called him out for being late. In fact, on Wednesday, his weekly news conference was pushed back 30 minutes from the original

scheduled time. Then he was 15 minutes late after that rescheduled time. When asked about the importance of punctuality for head coach, here's what he said. I think it just depends on the situation, really. It depends. You know, I mean, there's a pretty busy schedule from those situations, I think, for everybody. I think fluidity is probably the best answer for you. I think we definitely, in the game of football, you have to be able to adapt.

Got to adapt on the fly. Look, look, here's the thing. There's no such thing as a press conference that's ever begun on time. It just doesn't. Like, the reality is every reporter in Detroit knows this. Press conferences never start on time. That's why we don't go live to them on radio, because they never see. start on time, ever. They don't start on time. So all this is, the Detroit media, they're,

they got their panties in a lot because he told a guy to sit up and look presentable when he looks like a, he looks like a, the Unabomber, right? That's basically what it comes down to, right? That's what this is. I mean, we need to stop. Like, you're making idiots of yourself. I get it. He hasn't shown himself to be a great head coach. He's trying to change the culture out there. But the only reason it's a story about practicing outdoors in the cold when he's trying to tough him up and showing up late to the press conference because he told one of you slabs to sit up and look presentable and ask a reasonable question. Do I think he should have done it? No. But if this is this response like, look, you look worse than he looks. You do. You look worse than he looks.

I can't believe you're running late. Every press conference is late. Every single one in sports. Every single one. Any major press conference that happens doesn't start on time. It doesn't. And anybody tells you otherwise is lying. Lying through the the teeth. So Detroit Media, look, we don't care enough about you to really cover you, but we care about you for this one moment. I get it. He called out one of your brethren, and you want to pay it back, and he's going to have to win more football games if he wants to be retained as head coach. It's his first year. He's trying to change the culture. This is a bizarre way of doing it. He's a guy who's smart, but people have totally smart, so he acts like he knows everything. Belichick guys haven't worked

outside of Belichick's building. I get all of that. But you look like idiots trolling him over a late press conference. They're not sometimes. They're not most times. Press conferences are always late. They are always fluid. And that's just what you have to deal with in your job. Stop trolling a guy because he told you to stop looking like a slob and sit up and make yourself presentable. Doug, strong defense of Matt Patricia. Who knew? Who knew you guys were best friends? I don't know Matt Patricia. I know what he did and this is what happens. Right. This is what happens. We start making you know because he's got some slummy beard and because he you know he's got the belichick sleeves on or whatever when he says to he's not wrong like you should if you're at your play if you're a writer

like you should look i've been i've been accosted before for cover you know you cover an NFL game like dude you got to wear some slacks you got to wear a shirt i did a play by play of a charger game i couldn't believe you showed up with no shirt on well i mean it was it was it was the fact that i was wearing some daisy dukes that would make people more uncouthful like look a little inappropriate Doug If you're working, you're representing a newspaper, you show up, look like you're representing a newspaper. If you're representing a football team, you look like a football coach. I think the jobs are in fact different. Do I think he should have called out the slummy media member who was slouching,

who would probably look like he hadn't shaved or showered or whatever and didn't sit up and ask a question? No, he probably should have had his media relations guy do that, right? That's what you do. That's what coaches in the NFL do. They pulled him really, the guy aside, like, hey, man, what are you doing here? He goes over and he mentions something to you? But the overreaction from the Detroit media looks just dumb. You look dumb.

You're trying to defend one of your own, especially in this particular case. Sports press conferences never start on time. Start with that. Well, Doug, as you mentioned earlier, the Miami Dolphins, potentially in the quarterback market, could be looking at Teddy Bridgewater. Well, maybe they can watch some Teddy Bridgewater film from this upcoming Sunday, because he's expected to get some playing time against the Carolina Panthers, as the Saints have already locked up the number one seat in the NFC.

Here's what Drew Breeze said about Teddy Bridgewater getting some action this weekend. I think there's no doubt he's going to get some playing time. It's just a matter of how much, you know. And so, yeah, he's the kind of guy who prepares to play every week. And, you know, I'm sure he's excited to play. And listen, we're all excited for him and some other young guys that are probably going to get some games going to playtime. Teddy Bridgewater with the chance to raise his market value.

He actually did not sound that excited for Teddy Bridgewater take some of his snaps. You know, am I wrong in saying that? I think he was kind of in a situation where like what else is he supposed to say. I mean, I get what you're saying where... Taysam Hill plays a lot. Tastom Hill is there. He blocks punts. He returns puns.

He plays quarterback in the red zone form. He plays wide receiver, slot back. He does a little bit of everything. So he is in some way. he's their third quarterback. Look, this needs to be pointed out. Jeff Ireland, who left the dolphins, got fired by the dolphins as their general manager, has done a great job with the Saints.

They've turned over their defensive personnel. Why? Ireland. Their general manager is Mickey Loomis. He's the general manager for the Pelicans and the Saints. He's not boots on the ground making these decisions. The acquisition of Tason Hill, getting Teddy Bridgewater as an insurance policy to Drew Breeze in his late 30s. Like they've actually done a real Jeff Ireland because of the question he asked to Des Bryant, you know, and because they didn't ultimately achieve enough in Miami. Like,

he's done a great job in player personnel and having Teddy Bridgewater where they can, you know, when he can personally drive up his own value in that offense, I think it's great to see here week 17. And another incredible comeback story coming off of that horrific knee injury suffered a couple of seasons ago, but with the Minnesota Vikings. That's the news. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by. The Heard Lye News. He's an absolute legend in the broadcasting business. And last night, of course, he called the Clippers win over the Sacramento Kings.

Let's welcome in here to the herd. Ralph Lawler joins us on Fox Sports Radio, Fox Sports One, the I-Heart Radio app. Ralph, you've been around the Clippers a long time. I grew up in Southern California. And I laughed when the Clippers would lose in the second round of the playoffs. People would say, well, that's a Clipper Curse. Like, they forget what the Clipper Curse actually was. You live through the actual Clipper Curse, whether it's Danny Manning or Danny Ferry or other

draftics that didn't even make it that far. How much has the franchise changed even in these last 10 years? Well, it really changed with the change of ownership. That was the big change. There was some good fortune before Steve Bomber took over for Donald Sterling. The drafting of Blake Griffin, for example, the trade for Chris Paul, bringing in of Doc Rivers, a top-level championship coach. But the real change, when we all just felt differently going to work every day,

was when Steve Bomber took over as the owner of the ball club. And he had the entire group into a big ballroom at Staples Center and addressed everybody. Let everybody know his name was Steve, gave out a private email address to everybody. You contact me, you got any problems, you got any suggestions. I want to hear them. And it was just a totally different feel. And now they have bulked up the staff tenfold from what it was on the basketball staff.

This is a major professional basketball team. I think that with a structure second to none in all of those sports. Okay. But it feels like, look, they moved on from DJ. Chris Paul, obviously, you know, one. it out and they made that trade. And of course, you know, Blake Griffin's now at now in Detroit, but it's really been crazy on how competitive they've been considering this was still kind of, last year was rebuild. This year is supposed to be rebuilt kind of year two. How, how have they been

able to be more than just head above water? Like competitive for a playoff spot at one point in second place in the West? How has this happened so quickly in spite of the fact that, you know, I don't think most of America knows how good Tobias Harris is. Well, there's no question about that. I think it'll be an all-star this year, I think, and be well-deserved is having a terrific year. And you can say the same thing about the Nilo Golanari. They have two 6-9, 610-4s, both of whom shoot over 40% from three-point country.

Gallo's around 47% for crying out loud. He's shooting like J.J. Reddick used to shoot the rock. I don't think that Steve Bomber ever wanted this to be a rebuilding. situation for the club. He did not want to tear it down on the studs like Philadelphia did with their so-called process. He wanted to keep winning, keep being competitive, keep being an attractive location for prospective free agents and to have plenty of assets to handle off in trades. And I think they have done all that. And this is a good basketball team. He had that great ballgame Sunday against the Golden State Warriors. Went right down to the wire. A team made like

18 to 23, 3-pointers, which was crazy. But they lost the ball game. But after the game, the coaches typically meet at mid-court. And Steve Kerr said to Doc Rivers, he said, you guys are good. You guys are really good. And he's really right. Yeah, Ralph Lawler joining us in the Doug Gottlieb show. It is Ralph's 40th year with the Clippers.

It's going to be your final year with the Clippers. But you've seen it from back sports arena days when you could walk up and, with the exception of Billy Crystal's seats in the front row, right? You could get really, really good seats, really, really, you know, cheaply. Now it's, hey, the Clippers, they're trying to get Quai Leonard. They're trying to get Kevin Rand. They're trying to make themselves a viable home for one of these free agents because they're in LA. They want to get their own arena and want to kind of have their own thing.

Is it reasonable to think that could actually happen? They're going to attract a free agent or two this summer. That's for sure. They're going to have the space. They're going to have an attractive team and setting. And, of course, the city of Los Angeles pretty much sells itself. It seemed like half the star players in the league have off-season homes here in Los Angeles. They all love the city and what is not to love.

If you're going to be a professional basketball player, a young millionaire in your 20s or 30s, what better place on earth to live than L.A. So the door will be wide open. They're not going to, they haven't got anybody targeted right now. but the target begins the final day of June at midnight going July 1st. Then they've got all sorts of targets and they'll aim directly at the guys that they think would best fit, you know, with this ball club. You know, Joe Buck has famously asked Vin if he wants to come in during the World Series, the potential of calling the Dodgers World Series.

Wish you would have. 40 years with the club, are you going to make the call? You're sitting at home and all of a sudden the Clippers, let's say they get a couple of these stars. they're playing late into the playoffs. Are you going to make the call and go, you know, I could still, I could pinch hit here. I just, I wonder if you're going to, I don't like you get spent time with your wife and have a life

and people don't understand just how much you travel covering the NBA. But is there going to be any regret if the Clippers do, in fact, take that jump in the coming years that you retire too soon? There won't be regret. There'll be joy for the organization, the ball club, the team, the city, and especially for the fans who have been so darn patient. waiting all these years. I don't think I'll have any regret at all.

I'll have some feelings of, you know, longings of, you know, missing the travel, missing me around the young guys. It's really helped both my wife and I stay relatively young, despite our advanced years. I'm 80 years old, and I can talk to young people, you know, and I can communicate with them. My parents, when they were 80, had difficulty. of anybody under 60 for crying out loud.

So I'm going to have to find a way to try to stay contemporary when I'm sitting up in Bend, Oregon. And I think we will. All right, well, Ralph, listen, it's been a joy to listen to you call games all of these years. Hopefully you get to call games into the playoffs this year. Congrats on the retirement. And more than anything, congrats on getting a chance to cover this really amazing transformation of the Clippers Ball Club.

We appreciate to join us. A lot of fun. My pleasure, believe me. Ralph Lawler join us here in The Herd. Pat Mahomes should be your MVP. I'll tell you why. Next in The Herd. One more Herd.

The Herd streams 24 hours a day, seven days a week, within the IHeart Radio app. Search Herd to listen live or on demand whenever you'd like. Doug Gottlie been for Colin here on The Herd. I don't have the big buttons. I don't walk around when I talk, but we can play by Sell Hold. Time to. Buy! Holland will decide if he'll buy it.

Sell. Roger to sell. Or hold. please hold. All right. The other voice you hear is that of Ryan Music, producer extraordinaire for the Doug Gottlieb show, which you can hear on Fox Sports World Radio, 3 to 6 Eastern Time, 123 Pacific. On your IHeart Radio app, your Fox Sports Radio affiliate or Sirius 217-203.

There you go. That's all the different ways in which you can hear us. Very well done, Doug. Ryan Music, what do you got here? Buy, sell a whole. What's the first topic? Patrick Mahomes will win the NFL MVP. So Patma Holmes, who leads the NFL in passing touchdowns at 48, likely to have 50, right?

They play the Raiders this week in a game they have to win to get home field advantage throughout. Okay, so they'll get 50, lead the NFL in passing touchdowns. Second, the NFL in passing yards at 4816 and pass the rating at 114. Here's the big one. Everybody points out the Chief's losses, right? They've lost four games this season. Do you have any points they're averaging in those losses? 37.5 points per game.

in their losses. Most points per game by any team in their losses in the modern era of football. Offense has not been the issue when they lose. Does the quarterback, are they on some level responsible, the five turnovers against the Rams? Sure, he did have six touchdowns. So I'm going to buy that Patrick Monce is the MVP. The Los Angeles Lakers will get the number two seed in the Western Conference. Well, look, they're currently the number four seed in the West at 20 and 14. Like, people have forgotten that they've still lost four of the last seven games even after beating the Warriors. Go on the road to the Kings tonight without Rondo, without LeBron.

By the way, if you're into that sort of thing, I do like the Kings tonight. You're welcome. Anyway, so, look, they got injuries to LeBron. We don't know when he'll return. Rondo is not going to play the entire season although they're going to have Ingram now we still would expect that as the season cranks up it's not just they're close to the top

right, they're two games behind the nuggets for the number two seed I don't think the nuggets remain the two seed they're also only a game and a half ahead of the spurs at the number eight seed so I think this thing is fluid I still think it's going to end up being you know Warriors Thunder Rockets some mix of those three atop and then the Lakers are somewhere

kind of in that middle. I'm going to sell them as the two-say. Sell, sell, sell. What smells so good in here? My goodness, that sounds good. I prepared you a great lunch, Doug, because you've worked so hard today. Whitlock just walked in. Something smelled amazing.

It's not Whitlock always smells amazing. Not there's anything wrong way. He's always, but it smells like chicken pot pie, but it is incredible the smell in here. I'm sorry, go ahead. We've been hard at work on your lunch, Doug. I hope so. We know how hard you work here. Nick Foles will be on the Eagles roster next season.

Well, look, the notable free agents. agents are Teddy Bridgewater and Terod Taylor. Blake Burtle's will probably also be on the street. I don't know if anybody wants Blake Bortles. You look around the National Football League and you can see some other quarterbacks that have become available. A.J. McCarran, obviously, suffering an injury, didn't play this year for the bills.

People seem to like A.J. McCarran as the backup. And, like, there's a trickle down with Justin Herbert now not declaring for the draft. So there's only one or two. potential first-round draft pick quarterbacks. But I'm going to hold it. I'm going to hold it right now, and I'll tell you what. Oh, please. We forget how bad Nick Foles was in the preseason.

We forget how bad Nick Foles was against the Falcons last year in the playoffs. We forget how bad Nick Foles was in the regular season. One of the reasons that Carson Wentz was rushed back to work was because Nick Foles was awful to start the year. I don't know. Ryan Fitzpatrick will be out there on the open. market. I just think he's another Fitzpatrick guy. I think he likes Philly. I think they like him as a safety net. They could work some. I'll just I'll hold things. Let's see how this season ends. There will be more than five NFL head coaching vacancies come Monday.

Okay, well, Green Bay is open, right? That's one. Arizona's going to come open. That's two. The Jets are going to come open. That's three. You got the Broncos. That's four. I don't know. Panthers, it looks like Ron Rivera is going to stay. So that's four. You got some mix of dolphins, bengals, and buccaneers is all we need. So it's more than five. Five would be the over-under. I feel like I'm going to buy that. Buy, bye, bye, buy.

I just, you look at these guys. You know, Rivera's missed the playoffs. Two had the last three years, but he's going to stay. That's because he went to a Super Bowl. But they did have an ownership change. Maybe eventually he ends up being getting... Adam Gase has done a nice job considering the revolving door at quarterback, but at some point they're going to move on.

And Marvin Lewis, like, anyone else would have made a change with Marvin Lewis except the Bengals the Bengals are weird I think bucks are Bengals and dolphins two of those three make a change I think they'll be more than five last one here Doug Kevin Durant will play with LeBron James next season I don't know what Kevin Durant wants but I do know he doesn't want to be next to LeBron James like he's made it clear and he wasn't wrong he might have used the wrong word with toxic in terms of the media's coverage and how much much fanboys in the media suck up to LeBron James.

Like I think there's a reality there. Toxic is a word. It might not. It's more of a trigger word. It might not have come across. But he doesn't want that. I mean, he's a different dude now. Different dude.

I think he could stay. I think he'll play for the Knicks. I don't think the Clippers are a destination. I think it's stay Knicks and maybe somebody else we're not thinking of. But I don't think that LeBron is a guy that he really, he likes beating LeBron. He's beating LeBron head to head in the last two NBA finals. LeBron guarding him. I think he likes that a lot. I think that's actually a drawing card in him staying at Golden State. He don't want to play with the Bronn. Sell, sell, sell. I'm sell that one.

And that's buy, sell, hold. All right, so tomorrow we had the blazing, we had the blazing five. At the blazing five. Look, there's a little bit of a Twitter kerfuffle where dudes started coming at me because I said on Twitter that in college basketball, you have this, a good number of players who are transferring at semester their first year. And I said, look, you can transfer at the year whenever you want, but halfway through your first year, Derek Rose is a perfect example of what fighting through adversity is supposed to be. Now, did he go AWOL in the Knicks? Yes. Did he go AWOL in the Cavs? Sure. Was he almost out of the league? Absolutely. But the best reward you're ever going to get in life is when you fight through adversity. And when you haven't played college

basketball, haven't been to college more than three or four months, like see the season through. It's a long year. Guys get hurt. Guys fall out of favor. You get an opportunity. And if you don't like it at the end of the year, you transfer out. And if people want to take shots at me because I transferred because I got in trouble, that's fine. But that was actually at the end of my freshman year.

Do yourself a little research. Read the actual entirety of the tweet and the thought and logic that goes behind it. Tomorrow we have Dana White, correct? We'll see if Dana White goes full Dana White like he did on the Golden Boy. Last time he was on TV, that should be fascinating. plus our Blazing Five. Last thing to leave you with is, we're in the Green Bay Packers,

and you know that everybody's paying attention to the guys that you're bringing in. Do yourself a favor. Don't be the lady with the Tesla trying to put gas into it. Like Chuck Pagano, Hugh Jackson, don't make those calls, because we do make judgments of your process

based upon the names and the stories of the guys that you're bringing in. Bring in viable head coaching candidates who can command respect for number 12 and get that ship back on. course. Not asking all that much, are we? I don't think so. Don't think so at all. Anyway, back tomorrow in the herd here on Fox Sports Radio and Fox Sports One. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind, and nobody's telling you exactly what

happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo, and every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the biggest moments in sports and giving you the real story behind the headlines. and we're going straight to the source, the athletes themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions in the moment, and the stuff nobody gets to hear. Listen to SportsSlic. On the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok.

Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smigel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an a cappella band with their between songs banter.

Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, guys? This is Clivert Taylor the 4th. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff.

Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This lineback... You know these kids. This linebacker walks up to me. He goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Time out.

Quarterback on office blue of 42. Hey, rec, my mama want you to wave at her. What? Hey, Ms. Parker. Listen to the Clifford show on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas.

And I'm C.J. Toledano. It's our favorite time of the year on our podcast point game, the playoffs. We're digging into the biggest surprises of the season. And I'm looking back on some of my greatest playoff moments. If we didn't talk ever again, I was hiring. You just understood. That's how personal it got. Wow.

Then after that game seven, Marquis come in, he's like, you know I love you, dog. You know, it's all love. This was just playoffs. This was just basketball. So listen to Point Game on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.