The Herd with Colin Cowherd - All Ball - #1 UK's Evansville L; Pac-12/ACC Pictures; Wrong On Trey Young; Sit Steph; Eastern Michigan HC Rob Murphy

Episode Date: November 14, 2019

This week, Gottlieb look at how Kentucky alum Walter McCarty and his Evansville squad took down his alma mater in a massive early season upset, what it means for UK, his early take on the Pac-12 and ACC pictures, how Trey Young is proving NBA doubters - including Doug - wrong, and why the Warriors shouldn't bring Steph Curry back this season. His guest this week is Eastern Michigan Head Coach Rob Murphy who discusses his incredible path from inner city Detroit to a DI coaching gig, coaching Antonio Gates in high school, getting his big break as an assistant at Syracuse, coaching under Jim Boeheim, and his philosophy for building a mid-major. Make sure you download, rate and subscribe here to get the latest All Ball Podcasts! Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smigel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter.

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That's 1-800flowers.com slash tune-in. Hey, what up? Welcome in. Doug Gottlieb here, and you are listening to All Ball. All basketball all the time. And a reminder, you can listen to the Doug Gottlieb. show daily, 3 to 6 Eastern, 12 to 3 Pacific on your Fox Sports Radio affiliate or IHeart Radio app or Sirius XM 213. I can't remember which is which, but you can figure it out.

I think Sirius is first and XM is second or I don't know. You'll figure it out. I'm on the same station as Dan Patrick. Is that better? Good. Rob Murphy is our guest this week on the All Ball podcast. He's a really talented, I guess you'd say young. He's in his mid-40s, young coach.

At EMU, he's been the head coach this is ninth year. Wow, long time. And it's an EMU program that after Ben Braun left went to Cal, it fell out hard times. And they've resuscitated it. Two years ago, his best year, last year a senior-laden team, three best players with seniors, and they struggle. I'll ask him about that. But it's also about his personal journey.

Grew up in Detroit, you're not going to believe all the different intricacies of his upbringing and what led him to being the man he is the day, the parent he is today, the coach he is today. And by the way, he has a new book out. It's called Deep by Rob Murphy. Once you hear the interview, you're going to want to buy the book and you're going to want to get to know this guy's. Amazing guy. Okay. Let me give you a quick little line on Kentucky being beaten by Evansville. And while it's not panic, it's not cancel the season. It's really cool for Walter, Walter McCarty, you know, a team that was picked eighth. in their league.

And last year, one of his first games, they played Xavier. They nearly beat Xavier. Now, Xavier did not have the season that Kentucky's expect to have that weren't ranked number one in the country. And we all know that it's really hard to tell who is,

who's what and who's not. We know that parody has arrived. And we also know that, you know, when you have players, when you have a variety of guys like, like Evansville has, you know.

I mean, they have K.J. Riley, who, was there with the old coaching staff and of course average 14 a game last year combined with sam cunliff who this is his third stop isn't it yeah his third stop he's at arizona state for like a minute and then kansas and now at evansville so you get you get some older guys at the at the mid-major level but walter mccarty's a gem of a guy and i think a gem of a coach and i just i thought they played harder obviously they hit five more three-pointers that that's a big

difference. And the question becomes, I guess, twofold. One, will Kentucky have the shooting to win big? And two, as much as we could say they're a young team, they're not really. Nate Sistina is not, he's a grad transfer senior. Nick Richards has been there. Ashton Higgins has been there. Quickly has been there. And like, you know, we like to do this thing where obviously Khalil Whitney is there one starting freshman. They're starting one freshman. So it's not like they have all 10-year-olds running around out there, and they're being beaten by 13-year-olds. You got some experience, and now you're seeing why Nick Richards and Ashton Hagen's and Hagan's really struggled, you know?

You know, there's things he does well, shooting the basketball, not one of those things. So can they have the shooting? Think about what they lost from last year. You lose both of your star wings. You know, Tyler Hero was a walking bucket. And, you know, you're not left. with much. Johnny Jazeen can really shoot, but he was,

I don't know if he's ready to truly be a star on this team, but they do need his offense. And eventually Tyrese Maxie will earn his way into the starting lineup. But Tyrese Maxie is a talented player who did hit some shots, you know, hit the big shots against Michigan State, but he's not a great shooter. Like that's not really what he, I wouldn't say that's what he does. He's a score.

bucket. He's a guy who can go get his. But I don't think that he's a shooter. So does Kentucky have the shooting? The answer so far is no, but I also think that the lack of sustained effort is surprising, not because it's this early in the season, but because this is not a group of Kentucky players that they're throwing out five freshmen at once. And the hardest adjustment you make when you go to college basketball is how hard you have to play in comparison to the opponent, how hard you have to practice. And I'm surprised that Kentucky's, was frankly outplayed by Evansville at the time of this recording last night. Those are my expectation for Kentucky.

Like I thought Florida would be better. But man, they got manhandled. Blackshire got manhandled by Florida State. And Florida State continues to dominate Florida. I would have thought Florida was better. Maybe this is an SEC story. We'll see how the rest of the SEC kind of develops. I do think the Pac-12 is pretty good.

We saw Oregon State lose to, Oklahoma. But Oregon State is mid-pack, right? They have, I think a really good starting line. The question is going to be point guard play has been an issue. And Trace Tinkle might, as he's the best player in the Pac-12. It doesn't mean he's the best prospect, fifth year senior, going to average 20 and 10 and probably four or five assists. Like, he's a tremendous player. But their lack of bench depth. And, you know, end of the day, it's he and Thompson and Kyler Kelly's really just a shot blocker. They haven't had great point guard play.

That's why they've lost so many close games, I feel like. But Oregon, Arizona, USC, Washington. Those are all like legit NCAA-caliber teams. And then we'll see about Arizona State that I have high expectations for. Bobby Hurley's team has a lot of fighting. Remy Martin now in his third year. God, third year, it feels like he's been there forever.

He's only been there three years. So I'm fascinated to see what Arizona State looks like. I'm going to get a chance to see San Diego State, Utah State in person over the next couple of days. I'll report back next week. Let me just say this about the ACC games being played early in the season. Do I agree with the idea of Jim Beheim like, hey, this is just for the ACC network? Sure. Sure.

And TV does pay a lot of the bills. And we make excuses for TV, you know, we make excuses for bad games being. on TV or crazy travel schedule. Like, well, TV one to have, like, look, every game you play is going to be on TV. I don't actually, like, when I take a breath, I don't mind it because the ACC regular season champion has been devalued already because there's so many teams and mismatch schedules. It doesn't mean that Virginia, when they've won it, hasn't been the best team. But if you don't play Carolina twice, you don't play Duke twice and they play each other twice

and play you twice or only play you once and they're playing you on the road, it's hard to determine who is truly a league champion. but it's weird. It's almost like you wish they would play half of the league season early and then have like maybe Christmas time or during some sort of break when you play non-conference games and then play them again. Like those early non-conference games,

I mean, teams are going to look completely different in February and March. Think about it. Think about, you know, Boston College won their first game of the year. Boston College opened up the season with an ACC game against Wake Forest. I want you to take a breath and think about the idea that they don't play Wake Forest again until January 19th. What if they play Wake Forest in the ACC tournament? Like in March. You play them in November.

You play them in January, play them in March. The teams will look completely different each time. It doesn't bother me because it does give you a chance to truly evaluate how a team has evolved. But at some point, this is going to be a, there'll be a damaging loss to an ACC team. And then let's see if they do it next year. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me. your host and your favorite therapist, Kear Games.

And in recognition of Mental Health Awareness Month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing

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Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real.

From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context and ask the questions everybody wants answered. SportsSlice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to Sports Slice on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slices Life 12 and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. What's up, guys? This is CliverTaylor the 4th. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game.

This linebacker walks up to me, he goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Quarterback on office blue with 42. Hey, rep, my mama want you to wave at her. What? Where's she at? Hey, Miss Parker.

Listen to the Clifford show on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Hey, I'm Jared Adano. You might know me as that loud guy who yells out, help on the internet. Help! Somebody! Please! But there's so much more to me than me.

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This is Help from a Hypocrite, the worst advice from the dumbest people you know. Listen to Help from Hypocrat as part of the Mike Coutura podcast network available on the I-Hart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, wherever you get your podcasts. There'll be a damaging loss to an ACC team because, you know, Syracuse played Virginia well before they were ready and scored,

what was it, 34 points or something like that? Now, Virginia's going to be good, it doesn't matter, but there will be a loss to a team that when the game was played was actually healthy and pretty good. So I don't hate the ACC teams playing each other early. I understand it. I think it's kind of cool. and I do think that

ACC regular season play or the regular season champion has been devalued by these deep, deep conferences. But I'll also tell you that at the end of the year when we look at your resume, seeing a game in November, I struggle to take it seriously because teams are so very different.

But that's not the way that the net rating works. The net rating is the net rating regardless of the month of the season the game is playing. and that strikes at the opposite of how I believe those last 10 games should be important. And we're live here outside the Perez family home just waiting for the, and there they go. Almost on time this morning. Mom is coming out the front door strong with a double-armed kid carry.

Looks like dad has the bag's daughter is bringing up the rear. Oh, but the diaper bag wasn't closed. Typers and toys are everywhere. Ooh, but mom has just nailed the purse. perfect car seat buckle for the toddler. And now the eldest daughter, who looks to be about nine or ten, has secured herself in the booster seat. Dad zips the bag closed, and they're off.

Ah, but looks like mom doesn't realize her coffee cup is still on the roof of the car, and there it goes! Oh, that's a shame. That mug was a fam favorite. Don't sweat the small stuff. Just nail the big stuff. Like making sure your kids are buckled correctly in the right seat for their age and size. Learn more at nhtsa.gov slash the right seat.

NHTSA.gov Slash the right seat. Brought to you by Mitzha and the Ad Council. What grows in the forest? Trees? Sure. Know what else grows in the forest? Our imagination, our sense of wonder, and our family bonds grow too.

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Adoption of teens from foster care is a topic not enough people know about and we're here to change that. I'm April Dinnwody host of the new podcast, Navigating Adoption, presented by Adopt U.S. Kids. Each episode brings you compelling real-life adoption stories told by the families that live them with commentary from experts. Visit Adoptuskids.org slash podcast or subscribe to navigating adoption presented by Adopt U.S. Kids. brought to you by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services Administration for Children and Families and the Act Council. Let's turn our attention to the NBA. I'll give you more college basketball stuff next week. You know, I watched Trey Young last night, and he was amazing, amazing for the Hawks. And my issue with Trey Young heading into his career was, one, there was a lot of discussion about how he fit into a

team kind of concept. You know, his dad, Rayford, who's a really good player, man, kind of thing, great scoring guard at Texas Tech. I played against him. I thought he was awesome. He was so protective of Trey at a young age that I don't know if he was a guy's guy. You know, he went to, you know, he went to high school and then college, you know, right down the street from each other.

And he spent a tight, the family is very tight-knit. And because of it, there were a lot of people like, well, do you ever fit in with the team and the team didn't buy in to leading the country in scoring and assist and he didn't play defense. There was some dysfunction there. I'll never forget. I talked to Brad Stevens. And I asked him about it was about a different player in the NBA.

And it might even been about Jalen Brown and how they didn't win when he was a cow. And he was like, look, if you evaluate the player and you think the player is a supreme competitor, like you're not going to draft somebody that you think lacks the competitive gene. the defense thing that when the guys don't play defense in college or don't have the toughness in college, toughness is hard. Because you can't just instill and just decide one day I'm a tough player. And we got around to talking about Trey. And I remember him saying like, look, you're tough enough to lead the country in scoring an assist.

You're probably tough enough to play defense. It's a bit of a mentality. But his point was, look, all these guys, they come out and people go, I don't know if he's going to guard anybody. But in the NBA, if you don't guard anybody, you're going to get embarrassed every night. And if you evaluate somebody to have a high level of competitiveness, they're going to compete defensively and they're going to get better. Now, what's his ultimate ceiling? I don't know.

I still, I thought that the problem with Trey was going to be a little bit like Steph, which is early in your career, you can get your coach fired because you have to have them have the ball. They have to have the ball to make plays, to be who they are. There are going to be some older players that get jealous of the overhandling of the ball and some of the shots that you take. and the lack of defensive toughness. The genius to what the Hawks have done is, for the most part, obviously Vince Carter is the exception. They have a young team, so they're totally bought in to Trey. And by the way, Trey's gotten tougher, stronger, and better. He's still not a good defensive player, but he's not a swinging gate.

He's not Isaiah Thomas, for example. And the shot making is really, really remarkable. I don't know why he wanted to be compared to Steve Nash. It's because I guess everybody respects Nash's passing. but he's starting to look like as close as anybody we've seen to Steph in terms of the difficulty of shot and the percentage of makes. It's a long way to go, right? Because they're still not winning big, but I'll be the first to admit,

I appear to be wrong on Troy Young and how much you can win with him in the early stages of his career. A couple quick things around the NBA. The Lakers are going to sit Anthony Davis at the time of this recording. So this is a Wednesday night. so it drops on Thursday. He's not going to play. They're going to beat the Warriors.

And I get that the Warriors are sitting there going like, we're not going to sit, why would Steph Curry come back and play in the spring? Clay's not going to play. He's not going to play. I don't know if you want to call it tanking or just being smart. This is a waste of a season for the Warriors. I've never seen anything like these litany of injuries they have.

It's crazy. Like of their top eight heading into the season, six are out. And, you know, a finals, I mean a two-time MVP and Clay, it's remarkable. So, you know, now the question would become if you're the warriors, my guess would be they're going to continue, I mean, DeAngel Russell is going to put up huge numbers this year.

But eventually you'd try and move DeAngelo Russell. I think that's the deal. I think we're all kind of in on that. Like, naten really fit with who they are. Maybe they keep him because he can just score, but he doesn't offend the way they defend. I don't know. He's a pick and roll player.

They're not a pick and roll team, but they will be this year. So the question would be, who would they draft, right? Wouldn't it be, would that be fun to just, we're going to have to dedicate segments to who are they going to draft?

Because that would be super interesting to me, more so than their actual season this year. The season this year is kind of a mess. And then could they, would they trade away DeAngelo, probably for a couple of older pieces more than for, or any sort of draft picks, weren't they?

Yeah, that seems reasonable. On the other side, instead of talking about would they take James Wiseman, like I do think if you're the Warriors as much as you'd like to replenish and get young players, get an Isaiah Stewart or Anthony, Anthony Edwards is a stud, by the way, he's the freshman at Georgia.

He could have been a senior in high school this year. I think Cole Anthony is going to be right there for the number one overall pick ahead of like a lamello ball. But if you're the Warriors, you're going to try and win over the next couple of years. I don't think wise been put is he's not advanced

enough. Anthony Edwards is not an 19 year olds aren't going to help you win an NBA championship, I don't think. So maybe they acquire that draft pick and then

traded it as an asset. But they're taking on the Lakers and I think the Lakers are real. I think Caruso getting major minutes changes them and gives them an incredibly athletic finishing

lineup. I'm not a huge Rondo guy, but if Rondo plays 10 minutes a game, 15 minutes a game, he can pass. He's smart as hell. LeBron likes playing with him. And he actually can make a shot now.

You don't want to go to him for 10-3s a game, but he can't make a shot. Lakers are coming together, and the thought is they add Andre Godala at some point this year. And now you have Kyle Kuzmo, who's giving them bench pop. That's a really good team. That's a championship caliber team. But with all the talk about resting guys and load management, isn't it at least curious to everybody else?

What do the Lakers do? Like, the Bron's like, hey, if I'm healthy, I play. Okay, if you've only played a full season once. And all that ego aside, hey, dude, your legacy is going to be determined in L.A. by what you do in the playoffs. And you're more likely to be healthy in the playoffs if you sit in the regular season.

I don't know. Once you get to a term like load management, it becomes something that catches like wildfire. And I get that it was harder back in the day, not having the treatment you have today, not having the private planes and the great hotels and all the nutrition. But if you're the Lakers, like,

this is like quiet letter doesn't surprise me. Everybody knew he's going to play 60 games. That's what he did. He won a championship. That seems to work for him. Do I love it? No, but we knew it was coming. For the Lakers,

they really have to manage the health of this team because so many of their big pieces are either oft-injured guys or guys that are over 30 years old who are more likely to get hurt. That, to me, is the biggest story of the Lakers because now they'll defend. They seem to have enough shooting

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That's away travel.com slash all ball. Well, let's welcome him in. He's the head coach of Eastern Michigan, and he's been there since, man, since 2011. He's been there that long. He won 144 games. He's also a new author as an amazing kind of life journey. He's Rob Murphy, and he joins us on the All Ball podcast. Coach, how are you?

I'm pretty good, Doug. Thanks for having me. I've been here nine years now, going into year nine here at Eastern Michigan. I'm excited about it, and things are going well. You know, it's interesting. We're about the same age, a couple years older than me, but you remember, like, Eastern. My, I have, like, two Eastern Michigan memories for my lifetime, right? One is the NCAA tournament run with Earl Boykin, and the other was before, I think it was before that was ABCD Camp was there,

going into my junior year, right? So I've been on campus, I've been in the dorms. Back then, the fieldhouse didn't have air conditioning. It was a ways back. As somebody who grew up in Detroit, Michigan, like, is that, is Eastern Michigan now home? Is this home to you? Yeah, it's home for me.

Yeah, it's 30 minutes, you know, from Detroit where I grew up. So I actually signed with Eastern Michigan to play football here. I was a really good football player coming out of high school. I didn't score high enough on the ACT or SAT at the last minute, so I had to take another route and chose to play Division II basketball. So for me, in 2011, it became full circle for me to be back here and be a part of Eastern Michigan and be at home. Yeah, you have a fascinating life tale,

and I want to get into your book, get into your journey, and some of the stops along the way. But what part of Detroit did you grow up in? The west out of Detroit, you know, one of the low-income areas, Dexter-Davidson area is where I started, then we moved over to a 7-mile-in-Nor area, and then to 7-mile in Schaefer area. But the west side of Detroit, you know,

and I wouldn't change it, you know, for nothing. My upbringing and my experiences were tough, but I turned all of that. pain in the power and it kind of used it to my advantage to continue to navigate through life. Okay, so what's the west side known for? Like, you know, there's different parts. I grew up in Southern California, right? Orange County was known as being, you know, more kind of lily white and soft, right?

Even though you had Mike Hopkins, I know a friend of yours, like Mike is anything but soft, right? East side of Los Angeles is mostly Hispanic. West side of Los Angeles is like Jewish, right? So I'm just, west side of Detroit is known as what? Just the motor city is known as, you know, you put your hard hat on. There's a lot of rough areas, so you have to bring a lot of toughness to navigate through that neighborhood. You know, what we were known for earlier on, I happened to go to Murford High School, and Eddie Murphy put us on the map, and when he wore a Murford T-shirt in Beverly Hills Cop.

So we always take credit for Eddie Murphy being one of our own. But the West Side was known as, you know, your hard work is to navigate through there, and you've got to be tough to come out of there. I don't recommend a ton of books, but one of the reasons I had you on was when I saw what your book was about and I started to read some about it, I was like, wow, this is amazing to kind of bear your soul. So, okay, so you grew up in the West Side. You only met your dad twice, right? That's right. That's correct.

What do you remember about those meetings? I don't remember even how he looked, Doug, to be honest with you. They were very quick meetings. And remember the last time I remember going to meet him, and my mother took me. I was about three and a half, four years old, and he wouldn't come out of an apartment complex. I can remember him looking down and wouldn't come down, but my mom was, I believe, stopping by to get some money from him or something, and he kind of threw a bag out of the window with some money in it. And that's the last side I ever had of my dad, and I was four years old at the time.

So being in a single-parent home at that time, you know, my mother, a lot of care, a lot of love. But it was really rough. Okay, so then your uncle was selling drugs out of your mom's basement. Well, yeah, well, I came from a family who was around an environment of drugs and alcohol. And, you know, my family, I mean, obviously was involved with a lot of those situations. And, you know, my uncle who was taking care of me at the time, who was pretty much my father figure, my mother's brother, was into a lot of different illegal activities. And, you know, as you begin to get older, you learn about that and you see it. And you tend to mimic it or try to copy it.

But fortunately, for me, I had my little league coaches because my mother kept me in the sports and kept me away from, you know, the tough times and the hard times as much as she could. So my little league coaches began to, you know, show me a different life. and put me in a different lane along my high school coach, I continued to embrace me and kind of give me, you know, the importance of education and how athletics can help save my life if I just listened and was coachable, and that's what I was able to do. Okay, but we are kind of bearing the lead a little bit in that,

so your uncle's involved in legal activities, but then you found out your mom was actually kind of overseeing it, like she was almost like the kingpin, right? Yeah, yeah, you know, it's funny, Doug, because when you think back, when I start writing this book, you know, one memory leads to the next memory, and before you know what you got 10 to 12 memories in the first chapter. And, you know, as unfortunate as the situation was, you know, my mom lost her life and a tragic murder at 29 years old.

I was 13. But during those times when I was growing up and, you know, obviously learning her involvement and understood, stood how much she was involved in it and how she ran it. I still sometimes can't grasp a young woman being pregnant with me at the age of 15, having me at 16 a week after her 16th birthday. And being 19, 20, 21, being a part of illegal activities, but also being the leader in illegal activities, is still baffling to me at that age, how she was able to navigate

and do a really, really good job to the best of her ability to keep me and my younger brothers away from it as much as she could. That's remarkable. You mentioned your little league coaches and your high school basketball coach. Who was the most influential? Because as you pointed out, you were a great football player, and I want to get to some of the other stuff with football. But if you said, like, this is the guy who says,

save me, who would have been? It would be Venus Jordan. That was my high school coach. I met him when I was in the 10th grade. He took over at Montford High School. And he is the one that kind of pulled me to the side. He said, you know, Rob, you're a leader. You communicate well.

Whatever group of guys you're with, they follow you. But if you can channel that to the positive group and, you know, and continue to do the right things in life, you can go a long way. So my senior year, I had signed to play a football. ball here at Eastern Michigan, and when I didn't pass to ACT, he told me to, you know, go to college, I'm going to help you get to another school, which was Central State University. He said, I want you to major in education. I want you to come back here and teach in Detroit public school system. I'm going to save my high school job for you once you graduate from

college. I'm going to save this job for you, and you can come back here and start teaching and coaching. So he gave me the vision. He gave me the direction. I took his advice. I majored in education. Once I graduated, I came back to Detroit and started teaching and coaching. Now, at that time, I never even envisioned myself coaching at the college level. I was the first one in my family to go to graduate from high school to attend college and graduate from college. So being a teacher in a high school coach was the end-all from where I was from. So I was excited to do that. But it was my high school coach who gave me the vision and direction at a young age.

Okay, Central State, isn't that like kind of in the middle of nowhere? Yeah, Wolverford, the Ohio. Fortunately for me, I chose that school at the last minute. My coach had relationships where he connected me with Kevin Porter, who was a former NBA point guard at the time, who was the head coach at Central State University. So he gave me the opportunity to play for him, and to be able to play for a former NBA player was intriguing to me.

But even the things that he went through in life and the challenges he had from high school to college and going to the NBA and being, you know, blackballed, actually from some of his activities. He kind of taught me a lot as well, but he gave me that opportunity, and I thank him for it to this day. You mentioned your mom died when you're 13. You only met your dad twice. I mean, your high school coach is guiding you, but like how, where did this drive? And for people who don't know, like, this, we'll get to the, I want to continue to get to the book and to other parts of your journey, but you wrote the book, yourself. This is not like, hey, I hired a ghostwriter, I sat in a room. He recorded it, and then he

kind of filled in all the blanks. Like, you sat down. Like, you're an incredibly driven person to succeed in, obviously in sports and in life. You have your own foundation, which, you know, preaches education and reading. But, like, this is how, how when you're like 14 and you have no mom and you have no dad and though the people around you kind of protected you, they're involved, they're involved in illegal activity. Like, how do you not get involved in that? You're in the west side of Detroit, all the stuff's going on. How did you stay on the straight and narrow?

Yeah, it's the toughest thing, Doug, and I talk about the angels. And those angels were, you know, my high school coach, even the friends, my peers, or guys that were a few years older than me for whatever reason. They always told me that I was destined to do great things. I don't know how my high school coach and how even my peers would think or feel that way. Obviously, I was really good in little league football, basketball, and baseball at the time. But I was always encouraged to stay away from it. But I always wanted to hang around that group because that's who I was around.

I was living with my grandmother. I still have my uncle. I thank the Cottrell family and the Washington family. Those are two families that during my journey allowed me to live with them, but I still was kind of my own person who was making my own decisions. So fortunately for me, welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Keer Games.

And in recognition of Mental Health Awareness Month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we, are in possession of the thing.

And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth? Or are you a good person because you're afraid?

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Parker. Listen to the Cliffer Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Hey, it's Edwin Castro, also known as Castro 1021. And I'm Conky, his best friend and business manager. And we've got a new show called The 1021 Podcast. I'm taking you behind the scenes on how I became one of Twitch's most popular streamers. We also love sports.

And with the World Cup right around the corner, we'll be breaking down the biggest story lines ahead of the big tournament here in the USA. Listen to the 1021 podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. You know, I've kind of grasped, you know, the activities in which my mother was involved with. I understand that was the environment and that's all she knew and my family knew. But at the same time, I always thought it was a bigger picture.

I always watched, you know, the Dallas Cowboys and the San Francisco 49. in the playoffs, and I envision myself one day playing NFL football. And then as I continue to watch high school basketball, you know, I start, my love started with Syracuse basketball because of Derek Coleman. So I'm always watching, you know, the athletes. And I said, man, it has to be a better life for me in the future. I don't want to go down the same road as some of the folks that I see, you know, going to prison or losing their lives to senseless crimes.

and it continued to be my peers and my high school coach who kind of just took hold of me and said, you know, you're special, you're a leader, you communicate well, and you're going to do great things. I don't know how they saw it, but I listened and I tried to continue to do the right thing. You finish up at Central State, and you did come back and coach and teach in high school. But like, this is like right out of high school, right out of college, right? So you're what, 23, I think? 22, 23 years old, yes. Yes, at the time.

I graduated, and that was like an accomplishment. First one in my family to attend college and graduate from college. So I immediately, you know, I came back home. I took my head, high school coaches' advice, Coach Jordan's advice, and then I, you know, applied to be a teacher and educator in the Detroit public school system. And when I did that, I had probably 10 offers teaching jobs because it was a lack of African American male teachers as being in the school system. So I took the opportunity there.

I started coaching at Central High School. I was very, very fortunate early in my coaching career to run to a guy by the name of Antonio Gates. He was 16 at the time, and a junior in high school, him and Dante Darling. So those guys got my coaching career off to a great start, you know, right away planning the state finals and then the following year planning. and winning the state championship with those guys, and they're moving on the Crockett High School,

and Coach of Maurice Agar there and winning another state championship. So between those winning environments, college coaches would come in. So at that time, Perry Watson, you know, he opened his door for me to learn a lot from him, and Tommy Amaker being a head coach at Michigan and Brian Elaby right before him, and Coach Tom Isso has been a tremendous help to me throughout my career. But those guys here locally kind of opened their doors, for me as a young coach, for me to learn more basketball and then what the college game was all about.

And I built a lot of relationships through recruiting of those student athletes I was coaching. So when an opportunity came up at Kent State, I was able to get that opportunity. Get right to the romance and find the way to wow this Valentine's with 1-800flowers.com. From classic roses and bouquets to decadent chocolate-covered berries, gourmet treats, and more.

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Those guys came through there. well. Yeah, Trevor Hoffman, right? Like, that was a, you guys had a squad there at a kid. Yeah, yeah. I missed him by one year because I went there right after they went to the Elite 8. Right. But Trevor and Andrew and Antonio Gates led that team to the Elite 8,

and I was able to go there the following year when Stan Heath went to Arkansas. Jim Christian gave me a great opportunity. Okay, so Antonio Gates in high school, what was he like as a player? Monster. The guy was multi-dimensional. I can shoot her from the outside. It was great off the bounce. uh... was exceptional passer

uh... he was always on assuming because he was about two thirty five two forty and he was kind of chubby at the time uh... but he was a great player i remember in the summer going uh... you know into his senior year he was in Vegas and i never forget him playing against cori mcgetty and the michigan mustangs at the time beat uh... cori mcgetti's team in the uh... in the uh... the tournament in Vegas they're they're the big time and then from there he continued to uh... be great as a basketball player, but Nick Saban at the time was at Michigan State,

recruited him to play football, and everybody told him he had a future there. He didn't love it. But he just went to Michigan State to play football. It didn't work out. He loved basketball so much. He bounced around and ended up at Ken State making that run and, you know, going to the NFL as a free agent in the rest of history. Do you think, and I did a podcast, I grew up playing with Tony Gonzalez.

And I don't think, I think Tony would play, in this NBA, in the small ball NBA. But now Tony was kind of the same thing in terms of being a monster, crazy competitor, crazy athlete. But he was not a great passer. He just wasn't. He just out-competed people for the basketball at either end of the floor. When you look at Draymond, like in this NBA,

would Antonio Gates work? Yeah, he would work, and he would be a better Draymond Green. It's funny you bring up Draymond Green, because when Draymond was at Saginaw High School, everybody would compare him to Antonio Gates. And people didn't really believe, because he wasn't a high-level recruit. They always said Draymond was undersized.

He couldn't really shoot, and he wasn't that quick. But he was very versatile, and he could pass the ball. And more importantly, he has the heart of a line, and he was a winner. And he always won at the high school level, which translated on to Michigan State, and it has continued to translate on to the Golden State Warriors. but Antonio was Draymine, but much better as a passer and a score. All right, so 2004, how'd you get the Syracuse job?

Oh, man, I thank Troy Weaver to this day. You know, the vice president of Oklahoma Thunder. One Sunday, I was sitting, you know, at home, and I got an incoming call. It was private. I had a next-to-phone. I'll never forget. And it was Troy Weaver. I happened to just answer the phone.

I wasn't going to answer the phone, Doug. It's true story. I looked at my phone. I'm like, incoming call. So something told me to flip the next tail is Troy Weaver on the other line. And coached, Troy. And I'm like, Troy, who? Troy Weaver, Syracuse.

So I'm like, oh, wow, what's up? At the time that me and Troy knew each other, but we didn't have a relationship. We just knew each other through maybe seeing each other on the road. He asked me, did I have an interest in coming to Syracuse? So immediately I thought he was talking about a basketball camp. Or, you know, I didn't know. I'm like, sure.

me, what's going on? He said, well, I'm going to take an NBA job here in the next 72 hours. And I'm looking for, you know, a young guy with relationships to continue to help Coach Beheim, you know, lead this program and help coach. Yeah, sure, I would have an interest. So when is this all going to happen? He said, well, you'll have to come on an interview this week. I'm going to talk to coach tomorrow. He'll call Coach Christian and give permission to speak with you. And then we'll get the ball rolling. So, you know, I couldn't sleep that. night, Doug. I was up all night. I went into my office Monday morning, Coach Beham called Christian, got permission. Coach Beham called me 10 minutes later. I had a great conversation

with him on that Monday. I flew to Syracuse that Wednesday. I was there for 30 minutes, and he said, welcome to Syracuse. So I'm forever thankful for Troy and forever thankful for Coach Behan for giving me a life-changing opportunity. And even, you know, Coach Behan, you know, in today's world, especially at high-level BCS, schools, they hire guys who played there. If you look at Syracuse staff now, they have all former players, the same with Duke and most places like that. So he took another chance on an outsider, and I think me and Troy are the only two guys that maybe have worked for Coach Baham that are not Syracuse alone. So for him to believe in me and give me that life-changing

opportunity that started with Troy, but I'm forever thankful. Bob, a pretty amazing experience. You guys had, you guys had So many great runs while you were there. Who is the player who you felt like you connected with the most? I connected with a ton of guys. It started with Akeen-Worker, and Josh Pace. You know, those guys were seniors at the time. I came into the program.

I came into the program. They were already established. They were national champions. Josh Pace and the keen-worker seniors accepted me. They allowed me to coach them. They allowed me to get them better on the court. So I'm forever thankful for them to make it mind. transition very easy as an

existing coach at that level. And then we recruited a host of players at that time, but I think the closest player I was with and maybe two would be Dante Green and Chris Joseph. Those two guys in particular were two of my favorites. And through the recruitment process with Dante learning about his childhood and losing his mom

at an early age, we were able to talk more about life and where he was and how he was trying to help raise his little brother living with his ground. mother. So between him and Chris Joseph, other two I connected with the most, but it was a family atmosphere there. And, you know, every guy that, you know, we helped Coach Beehime recruit, we all got along and we did a tremendous job. Dante's an interesting one because I remember talking with Coach Beheim about it when he declared for the NBA draft. He only played one year at Syracuse. He was the first round pick. And there was the like, yeah, he really should stay,

but he has his family to kind of to take care of, right? Like, I think he was born. Like, he was at Air Force, Brad, right? Wasn't he? I mean, he was. Yeah, his mom was, yes, for sure. And, you know, Coach Behanme, kind of talked him into coming back. It would have been beneficial for Dante.

You know, and I gave him the same advice. But obviously, you know, the student athletes, you know, after that first year, and you've been McDonald-American, and you see everybody in your class, you know, one and done. And then Dante went to the same. high school is Carmelo. So he was following the same footsteps of Carmelo being from Baltimore, 10,000 Catholic, and now he's choosing Syracuse.

So he's, you know, he wants to come in and be one and done, just like Carmelo Anthony. Unfortunately, he wasn't good as Carmelo Anthony, but he was good enough to play in the NBA. I think he would have been better off than another year to mature a little bit more and tighten up his game. I think that would have helped him last longer or have a longer. career in the NBA, but he's a great young man. He's still making money, playing basketball, and he talks about going back, continuing to get his education. Yeah, I mean, it's a really hard one, right? Like, how do you tell somebody? Because if the goal is the NBA, you get

draft the NBA, then it's hard to talk about that. On the other hand, you're like, look, man, if you could just wait a year, you're like, well, if I wait a year, you know, there's, there's, there's all these other things that could go wrong. And I know it's a, it's, and especially with the family things and take care of his brother, it's an, credibly hard one. Okay, so go ahead. No, go ahead. No, I was saying, you know, just the pressures, too, of trying to follow the guys in your class, come to Syracuse and follow the Carmelo Anthony's success. And then you have a million agents and a different million outsiders continuing to beat you up and tell you why you should leave because they don't have your best interest at heart during those times because they're just trying to figure out how they can get to you or you can get to the NBA and they can make money and everybody kind of wants to be a part of, you know,

So the millionaire. So, you know, with everybody tugging at him, you know, he made the decision. I just thought he probably could have benefited from one more year. And, you know, I know we can go into this later if you have the time, but the stipend was not even in place at that time. Because if we could, if Dante could even get the $18 to $2,000 that my student athletes here at Eastern Michigan get every month, that would have been money in his pocket where he wouldn't have had to just rush and go pro to make money.

Yeah. I mean, look, do I think the stipend is a good thing? I do, but, I mean, you know, are you fighting over $2,000? No one's going to say, like, okay, I'd rather to make $2,000 and stay in school than go and make $500,000 to $1 million to play in the NBA, though, right? I do agree with that. I do agree with that, Doug, but at the same time, that $2 to $3,000, because we couldn't give players.

No, I could get anything at that time. I'm like, he would get a, he would get a, he would get a Pell, right? So you get a Pell, which is like $6,000, which is. Exactly. And then, yeah, I mean, and the, because he wasn't, I don't know if he was listed as a parent, like, if you're a parent, you can get a little bit more. But, look, I agree that the cost of attendance or the stipend is a is a big thing. But I also think that, you know, it's, it's chum changing comparison to, like you said, what they're being told is out there for them. And then you try and have a legit conversation with them go like, look,

I get that you can make $500,000 or a million for a couple years if you leave now. But if you stay a year, you can make $2 or $3 million and then make $50 to $100 million if you, like you said, tighten up your game. But it's a really hard thing for a kid, even if you're giving them a stipend. You know what I mean? Yeah, I do agree with you, but a kid like Dante in his situation, he probably would have stayed given the cost of attendance check and the pale and all the occasional meals and snacks and pre- and post-game meals, he would have been fine.

Now, you can't sell every kid on that. Dante was one of the better kids that, and you know, Syracuse basketball, I mean, it's exciting and it's fun. And, you know, college is the best time of your life. I don't care how much money you go make in the NBA. And he kind of understood that, but to be able to offer him nothing was a tough deal. So that's when he made a decision to leave. Yeah, yeah, no, I mean, and I remember the All-Star break the next year.

he was back there sitting courtside and I could just think like all those guys come back like man 30,000 people everybody cares about you it is a hard trade you lost to Marquette in 2011

in the second round that ended up being your last game as a coach at Syracuse take me through the process of how you got the Eastern job well first of all that was one of the toughest losses during my tenure at Syracuse. We felt we had a team that could make a run, and, you know, Marquette with Jay Crowder

and Jimmy Butler and those guys, they were really, really tough. And it was tough for us to be matched up against another big East opponent in the second round as well. So they beat us. That was a tough loss. And then at that point, we were going back to the drawing board to, you know, get better for next year. And the first opportunity came was the Kent State opening because Gino Ford had went to Bratley. So the job opened up. At the final four, I interview for that job.

It came down to me and Rob Senderoff and maybe someone else, but I didn't get that job. I really wanted it. Antonio Gates got involved, and I thought I did well in my interview, but it crushed me when I didn't get the job. And then a week later... Hold on.

That's a hard thing. I haven't been involved in as many as you were involved in, but when you really think, like, you got... You got Antonio Gates. You've been there before. You know, you got Detroit on Lock. You're coming from Syracuse. You guys have had an incredible amount of success.

You know, you're a respected guy in the profession. And I know it was a quick turnaround between that and Eastern, but what was that like for you to not get a job that I'm sure you went to sleep at night the night before you found out you weren't getting it thinking I'm going to get this thing? Well, I was crushed, Doug, to be honest with it, all the things you just mentioned, working for a Hall of Fame coach, having success at the highest level, being at Kent State for two years, and both years we were in the postseason, helping deliver one of the best players, if not the best player in the history of basketball.

They're being Antonio Gates, getting him involved in his big-time donation to the athletic department. Everything was pointing in my direction. But I also understood Rob Senderoff being there as well because he was my roommate on the road and somebody that was really, really close to me. So we were going up against each other for the job. So we ended up getting a job, but I was still crushed because I wanted that opportunity at that time. You know, I can remember, you know, for a couple of days just being disappointed and wondering would I ever get another great opportunity that fit me

because everybody wants to be a head coach, but you want to get a job that fits you, that you can be successful, and you don't want to take any job, especially when you're at Syracuse. So, you know, I was crushed, but a week later, Eastern Michigan opened up, And that was really challenging to just get in the interview process. You know, immediately, you know, I had my agent called to gauge the interests of me just being a candidate. And I was turned down. They told me, no, I couldn't get in the pool. So I couldn't understand that with me being 30 minutes from home.

You know, it's a job that I wanted even better than I wanted Kent State. Now I'm at home. And the program is at a certain level. at that time the bottom of the Mac, and I felt it was a perfect opportunity to me to go in there and grind and bring Eastern Michigan basketball to relevancy as it was once before.

So I couldn't get in the interview process. I remember talking to Coach Beehime. He called Dave Bean for me, who was his college roommate, who was the mayor of Detroit at the time. So Dave made a few calls, and I was able to at least get myself in the pool. So it was 10 candidates,

and I was the only African-American. in the pool. And I was told, and I'm being very, very candid and honest, I was told that they did not want to hire the same person they had just hired, meaning Coach Ramsey was an assistant at, yeah, Charles Ramsey was in Michigan. He was from Michigan, and he was actually from Ibs-Salani, and he was African-American. And so I thought they wanted to go away from the assistant coach at a high-level school that was from the area.

They wanted somebody with head coaching experience already. They just wanted to go in a different direction. So I was told I couldn't get in the pool. So after, you know, Dave being helped automate a few calls, and I kept pushing different buttons. They finally called back and said, okay, we'll put you in the pool. So I said, okay, fine. The interview started on Monday.

Unfortunately, I didn't hear my agent or I didn't hear back from anybody until Thursday. So by that time, you know, I was at home. I told my wife, I said, you know what? concentrate on Syracuse basketball and continue to do what I'm doing. And this was Thursday. So my phone rings maybe two and a half, three hours later, my agent and said, you know what, they finally put you in the pool. But here's the thing.

You've got to fly out tomorrow. Your interview will be Saturday morning at 8 a.m. The president has to go to graduation, so they're going to just slip you in, interview you, and you can. So, man, should I even do that? It sounds like, you know, they're completed their interviews, and I'm doing. just going because for HR purposes, I'm in this pool. So I said, man, I haven't made too many calls.

I got too many people on board helping me now. I'm just going to go for the experience. And, you know, so I told them I would be there. I fly there Friday. Fly here Friday. I check in at the Marriott. And I called Coach Behan at midnight. Friday at midnight.

Now my interview was at 8 a.m. They're going to pick me up to the president. He said, I talked to her. She didn't, you know, go either way. but she says she was excited to meet you tomorrow. And he told me, he said, look, you have a great job here at Syracuse. You know, you go in there, you say what you want to say. You pretty much interview them because they need you more than you need them.

They just don't know it. But just going there, and if you don't get the job, you come back here, and you've got one of the greatest jobs in America, and you just stay here and we continue to work to get you another job, whether it's next year or this year, whatever. So having that talk with Coach Beheim Friday night before going in there at 8,000, 8 a.m. was great because I took a different approach mentally. I said to myself, I'm just going in here and, you know, tell them how I feel, and whatever happens, happens because I'm already

believed that I'm just in this, you know, interview pool just for HR purposes. So I go in there and I interview with the president. Last about 30 minutes, it went great. She was impressed. I'm probably surprised at my presentation and my booklet that I went through with her and with the Board of Regents, which was eight, you know, regents around the table. I did the same thing in there, and they were impressed. By the time I got to the AD, said, while your name is buzzing around here, kind of walk me through what you've shown them and how you can build Eastern Michigan basketball. And I did the same thing with him.

I ended up leaving. I landed in Washington, D.C., because I left there to just continue to recruit in Syracuse, because I didn't think I can get the jobs already had plans to go see some guys. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of Mental Health Awareness Month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tript Fantine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it.

And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth? Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely.

And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, as we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, learn the hard way. Open your free, our heart radio app, Search learn the hard way and listen now.

Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise. Breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines.

We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down,

give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports Slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to Sports Slice on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more,

follow Timbo Slices Life 12 and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. What's up guys? This is CliverTaylor the 4th. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee.

We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker walks up to me, he goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Quarterback on office blue with 42. Hey, rep, my mama want you to wave at her. What? Where's she at?

Hey, Miss Parker. Listen to the Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio, Apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcast. Hey, it's Edwin Castro, also known as Castro 1021. And I'm Conky, his best friend, and business manager. And we've got a new show called The 1021 Podcast. I'm taking you behind the scenes on how I became one of Twitch's most popular streamers. We also love sports.

And with the World Cup right around the corner, we'll be breaking down the biggest storylines ahead of the big tournament here in the USA. Listen to the 1021 podcast on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. My phone ring, I was at Hertz, and it was the athletic director, Derek, at the time, said, hey, I think I want to offer you our head coaching position. So we talked and I accepted the job 48 hours later, and I've been here ever since. Wow, Rob Murphy, in the 13 years before you got there, there were only two winning seasons at Eastern. Obviously, you've turned that around.

You know, you've had three 20-plus win seasons, but there's still kind of a next step, right? And I thought last year with Paul Jackson, Elijah Minnie and James Thompson, I thought last year would be the year. Why wasn't it the year? Didn't play as a team, Doug. I had a great year the year before. We lost Tim Bond, who I thought was the glue guy,

who people didn't realize, was very impactful for our team. It was defensive player the year. He had a lot of versatility. But with those guys coming back, the challenge for us was to stick with the we over me concept. And that summer, guys put their name in the draft.

They were getting caused by agents telling them what they needed to work on or what they needed to do if they returned to school. So when James and Elijah decided to return to school, they were more thinking about what I, what do I need to do to get to the NBA? This is my last year. So I ran into a lot of that. So I had to, you know, coach every practice and every game, but it's not about you.

And even Paul Jackson, who had a chance to go and make money playing basketball, people were telling him, as my point guard, what he needed to do. And I told those guys, no, we need to do what we did the last year and the previous year. And winning takes care of everything. If we just win, it doesn't matter what your numbers are. But those guys never really bought into that. They were kind of indifferent about even coming back to school. And then when they came back, they were thinking about themselves.

So it was a tough year. You can't win that way. And unfortunately for us, we had to learn the hard way. You mentioned calling Jim Beheim at midnight, which is awesome that, you know, he was so engaged and picked up. what's the most interesting thing about Coach Beheim that only people who have worked for him know? You know, he's a great guy, Doc. I mean, you know, he always has that blank stare, or people see him get on the officials or get on the players.

But he's a family, man. He's a great husband. He's a great father. I can remember for three months, I had a chance to actually live with Coach Beheim. My house was being built in Syracuse. They didn't finish on time. and we saw at our house previously, and him and his wife opened up their doors for my wife and me and my wife and our children at the time to live with them for those three months. And through those three months, I've really, really seen the love and care that he gives to his wife and his children, how he jokes, you know, how he just loves to talk where there's different subjects about life.

But he's a great mentor and a great guy, and I'm so appreciative, obviously, of the opportunity, but of him just always. opening up his family to my family and always making us, you know, feel like we had, was a part of his family in Syracuse. He is a major league shit talker. That's the part that you're skipping over. I've never, I'm like, and I don't think people would, like, major league shit talker. And it's in a, no, you have no chance, golf on the basketball floor, on the golf course, wherever.

Like, he's a big time shit talker. Yeah, but baby, he talks, but he is a competitor, Doug. He wants to win. And I hate to say by any means necessary because of Syracuse, everything is above board, but he wants to win in everything. And he wants to be right about everything. But that's just a part of his competitive spirit, but that's the reason that he's been able to be at Syracuse

and have the success he's had for 44 years. It's actually unbelievable when you look back at over. over the years and the challenges, how resilient and how, you know, good he has continued to be over the course of these many years. And again, I can't thank him enough for giving me a life-changing opportunity. What grows in the forest? Trees? Sure.

Know what else grows in the forest? Our imagination, our sense of wonder, and our family bonds grow too. Because when we disconnect from this and connect with this, we will be able to be able to be reconnect with each other. The forest is closer than you think. Find a forest near you and start exploring at Discovertheforest.org. Brought to you by the United States Forest Service

and the Ad Council. Look through your children's eyes to see the true magic of a forest. It's a storybook world for them. You look and see a tree. They see the wrinkled face of a wizard with arms outstretched to the sky. They see treasure and pebbles. They see a windy path that could lead

to adventure, and they see you. Their fearless guide through this fascinating world. Find a forest near you and start exploring at Discovertheforest.org. Brought to you by the United States Forest Service and the Ad Council. I want to talk about the Jerry McNamara run

because you were there, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And like, look, Syracuse had a lot of dudes that could really, really play. Obviously, Mello and Akeem, back when Mello was a freshman, they won the national championship. That was before I know you got there. But the Jerry McNamara run, like, there was something just freaking magical.

And there is something about Cuse in the Garden, in the Big East tournament, and it's obviously not there anymore. What was that like to explain? What do you remember about the Jerry McNamara experience? Oh, well, for us, Doug, we had a tough year. And I can remember the last game of the season going to DePaul. The last two games, we lost to DePaul by 40 at DePaul, when DePaul wasn't really good, got crushed. And then we came back home for some. senior day, and we lost the Villanova when they had Randy Foy and all of those guys, Kyle Laurie, Alan Ray, they had a hell of a team, and they crushed us on Senior Day, which

was Jerry McNamara Senior Day. So it was real gloomy around Syracuse at that time. But we went into the Big East tournament, and that first three he made to beat Cincinnati was unbelievable. I can remember him coming to the bench, and I was the first one that greeted them, and they went to the scores table. And I said, Mac, are you sure you was behind the line? Mertf, I was behind the line. Game over. I said, are you? Game over. I was behind the line. So we knew we would be moving on. And just from there, the way we won, we just got our energy

back. We got our life back with that one shot, that one make. And then from there, it just seemed like everything continued to fall into place. We couldn't do anything wrong. And Jerry was an unbelievable leader. He hit all of those shots at the end of those games to, you know, propel us to the Big East championship. But even his point guard play and his leadership at the time was incredible. And all the guys bought in and we rallied around him and him being a senior. We wanted to send him out the right way. So he was incredible. Coach was incredible doing that run. And we were very fortunate to win a Big East tournament championship and gone and participated. How are you different now as a head coach than you were when you first

took the Eastern job. Just having more patience, having more understanding. You know, we're in a now world. We never really live in the moment. So when I became a head coach, you know, I was looking at the next job because that was what everyone said you should do. Oh, well, Eastern Michigan is a stepping stone job. You're supposed to go there and win and leave in two or three years and do something

different. So I had a couple NBA offers, which, you know, I was intrigued with, and that was a big deal my first few years, and then I started thinking about, you know, winning here and moving on. But then I, you know, start thinking about my purpose, you know, of why am I in this spot? And why am I, why did I get this job? And, you know, I started my foundation in 2014, which has impacted the lives of a lot of underprivileged youth and families in Detroit and here in the Ipsilani community. So I began to think differently. this was a dream job for me.

I'm 30 minutes away from home. So I just put two feet in the cement here and said I was going to build this program and I was here to stay. So I'll just learn to have more patience, focus on the now and not so much the future. You want to plan and be a few years ahead, and that's what successful people do. But for the most part, I've had more patience and I've lived in the moment. And the most important thing for me has been Eastern Michigan basketball. ball. So if I'm here for another 15 years, that's great. If I do something different and

I move on, that's great. But just having patience living and coaching in the moment to make sure I can give these student athletes, each and everything I can, every single day that I'm here. I know considering your upbringing, your family and being a parent is incredibly important to you. So how do you balance that? You can technically set your own schedule. How do you, like your day when you practice, when you meet, how do you have your family time so that you can do your job, both at home and at work? Well, during the season, it's extremely, extremely tough because you want to put everything into winning every single basketball game.

Obviously, you know, the last eight seasons, we've graduated 30 out of 32 of our student athletes, so we're doing well in the academic department. But obviously, my job is to win basketball games regardless. So during the season, it's tough. So we, you know, I spend time and talking to my kids at 7, 15, 8 o'clock, they go to school. I'm up. I may work out for 45 minutes to an hour. I get to the office at 9.15.

We have meetings, you know, and this breakdown of practice, breakdown of the next opponent. You know, after that, we kind of break and have our time before we practice at 1.30. We practice for a few hours. We may have some guys shoot afterwards. And after that, we may meet again as a little. staff and I allow my staff to go spend time with family because it is important. But in season, we put everything in our life to win each and every basketball game. And that takes a lot because we have to spend time with our players.

You know, we have the EMU boardroom talk now. When my book came out, you know, obviously I knew it was going to impact the life, different lives around the country. But more importantly, I wanted it to impact our student athletes here. So we have the boardroom talk, what we call it going into the lab, or we talk life, athletics, and basketball. And I think that's really beneficial into, you know, helping our student athletes continue to grow and evolve

into who they're becoming while they're here with me in order for them to be successful when they leave us. So family time is limited during the season a lot more in the off season, but I always keep everything into perspective because you want to give love to your family. You want to give love to your second family here, which are the eastern Michigan Eagles, and I think we have a great balance.

You mentioned your boardroom talk, and you're a mentor to so many people. It is interesting. And look, I know that we both, we have all different perspectives on the NCAA thing, whatever, but I think that the part that gets massively undersold by people in my business is the importance of college and the relationships.

Like, look, you pointed out, like, hey, Syracuse, Jim Beheim, hire Syracuse guys, right? Like the, we undersell, when you go to college, you're now part of that university family and that basketball family. And one, it's important because so many people come from, it's either split families or, you know, all different sorts of family units, but two, because that's really your future.

Whereas if you skip over that process, now when basketball stops, the only thing you have is NBA or G League. Those are the only connections that you have. And there's just a limited number of jobs there. But I think the part to get, gets undersold the most is how so many coaches, and maybe not to the level that you do, invest in these players to help mentor them now and into the future with all your friends in coaching.

And I would say having your own foundation, writing a book, sharing your story, I think you're probably at the highest level in terms of how important mentorship is to your players. But do you think maybe, and this feels like a set up question, but do you think we need and the media do a good enough job of explaining what the college experience truly is outside of just the basketball games twice or three times a week? I don't. It's never really talked about because it all comes down to, you know, obviously the big schools, the NCAA tournament, the games that are on TV.

So we don't really talk about what goes on behind the scenes. You know, for me, for what, you know, how I was, you know, brought up in the environment and the challenges and the obstacles, you know, I think it's important for us as coaches to spend more time outside of the court with our student athletes. You know, you would hope, and what I've learned, you would hope that they would just learn it just through basketball, through film, through practice, through travel, just them being in the team atmosphere. But I think we need to take it a step further and really, really spend time and get to know our student athletes. So we talk in our boardroom about leadership, you know, obviously accountability,

mindset, decision-making, how to be resilient. And I allow my guys to talk to tell me what's on their mind because I want to get to know them. I think their teammates should get to know them. And it's interesting, you know, we had one 48 hours ago. And, you know, the Zach Winston situation happened, which was really unfortunate. And, you know, obviously everybody has kind of rallied around Cassius and, you know, his family. with what happened with his brother. But it was interesting just to get the feedback from what some of my guys felt,

because you don't know what our student athletes are going through. It can be depression, it can be anxiety. It can be so many things that we don't know that's not talked about or it's not heard. And even in my book, if you even go to page 32, I talk about the being alone, the dysfunction, how I mask everything and didn't really tell anybody how I felt. day-to-day with what I was going through. I would just, you know, go to school, and this was I was talking about the time that I was in high school.

So nobody really asked me, you know, what I was going through, or, you know, obviously my high school coach looked after me, but we didn't have deep, deep, deep conversations. So for me to kind of have an understanding of what somebody may be going through and not really tell it, I think we just need to spend more time when I got guys outside of the court. So I've kind of set up this venue for us to come in and talk about anything and everything that's on their mind.

It can be girlfriends, academics, struggle, depression. And in our last boardroom, some guys said some interesting things, which helped me better understand them where they come from or what they may be going through, and I'm able to help them and lead them to where it may not end up being a tragic situation. And they know they have me and my staff here to support them through anything. You mentioned that in the pool, the hiring pool at EMU, you were the only African-American candidate,

and obviously you're replacing if Charles Rams, who's an African-American head coach. It's like inside locker rooms and coaches' offices, race is discussed, but I think differently than the rest of the world. I just, I wonder, and this is an honest question,

is do you think we've reached the point in college basketball where race of a coach doesn't matter? like where actual accomplishments matter. Have we gotten? Because there is something, there is something loaded there where, hey,

we want a guy with head coaching experience. Well, okay, that does trim down the number of African American candidates in your pool, right? Because more white coaches have gotten more opportunities. So it might not be, it might,

there might not be, it might not intentionally be racist or whatever, or limiting, but it is in terms of the percentage of potential. candidates, right? So I just, having experienced it now as a head coach for nine years, have we gotten to that point where race doesn't matter? No, I don't think we'll get to that point anytime soon, Doug. If you just, you know, look at the opportunities. It's not a lot of African-American head

coaches, you know, at the Division I level. I mean, I believe it's given an opportunity, like a fair opportunity. You know, you'll see more. But I don't want to say it's racist. What I understood about me being in the pool at Eastern Michigan is that they just didn't want the same type of profile that they had just hired. I came in and won the job, and obviously I was hired here. So I don't think it was a racist situation at that time.

But I think if you just look at the percentages of how many, African-Americans are in the position, whether it's the college level or the professional level. We don't get those same opportunities. And just to take it a step further, I mean, I've been here nine years. I'm the lowest-paid coach in this conference. My staff are the lowest-paid assistant coaches and support staff in our conference. I don't like to think that it's because of the color of my skin, but at the same time,

I'm not compensated as much as maybe somebody, you know, coaching at another school of a different race. So for me, I just do my job at a high level. I don't really think about those situations because I'm fortunate to be in this situation. And throughout, you know, my, you know, college experience since I left high school, Jim Christian gave me an unbelievable opportunity. Jim Behan gave me an unbelievable opportunity. and then Sue Martin and Dr. Greg, who was athletic director here at the time, gave me a great opportunity. So I tell people, you know, you have to be in position to get the opportunity,

and when you get your opportunity, you've got to make the best of it, black, white, or indifferent. But we don't get these opportunities, which is really, really sad. The most, I don't want to say the best, the most challenging coach that you faced in the Mac is who? The coach, Keith Dan Brat, but he's no longer in the Mac. He's at Duquesne now. But his teams always were efficient offensively, and they played really, really good defense. He did a phenomenal job during his tenure in the Mac, and it's the reason that where he was able to get a bigger job.

All right. The one thing you feel like you need to do better as an X&O coach? Just continue to learn. evolve. I think we do a really good job here of running our offense, whether it's on or man. Our spacing is really good. We had 23 assists in our first game and 20 in our game last night. So it just shows my team is bought into each other. They turn it down good shots for great shots. And if we can continue to do that offensively, we'll be a really good basketball team. The book is a phenomenal one. It's called Deep. I encourage you to go out and pick it up.

Amazon or wherever you order books. He's Rob Murphy and he's the head coach of Eastern Michigan coach. I know you got a game tomorrow night. You had one last night. I appreciate you fitting us into your schedule. Your journey is amazing. By the way, you can go to rob Murphy Foundation.org for more information. Coach, thanks so much for joining us.

Thanks for having me, Doug. I greatly appreciate it. You've always been good to me. So thanks for having me on. Be sure to catch the live edition of the Doug Gottlieb show weekdays at 3 p.m. Noon Pacific. Hey, thanks for listening to the All Ball podcast. Make sure you listen to my daily radio show,

3 to 6 Eastern, 123 Pacific, Fox Sports Radio, IHeartRadio app, or SiriusXM, 217 or 203. I'm Doug Gottlieb, and you have been listening to All Ball. If you love to be remembered as the person who gives the best birthday gifts, I'm here to tell you that 1-800flowers.com is your ultimate birthday gifting destination. 1-800 flowers has thoughtful and artfully created options that are guaranteed to deliver the best birthday surprise. Shop thousands of unique gifts at

1-800flowers.com for exclusive offers and great values. To order today, visit 1-800flowers.com slash tune-in. That's 1-800flowers.com slash tune-in. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo, and every episode we're cutting through the norm. breaking down the biggest moments in sports and giving you the real story behind the headline. And we're going straight to the source, the athletes themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions in the moment, and the stuff nobody gets to hear. Listen to Sports Slice on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

And for more, follow Timbo Slical Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smigel and friends. me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes.

Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, what's good, y'all? You're listening to Learn the Hardway with your favorite therapist and host Kier Games. Space is about black men's experiences, having honest conversations that it's really not safe to have anywhere, but you're having them with a licensed professional who knows what he's doing. How many men carry a suit or armor.

It signals to the world that you're not to be played with. And just because you have the capability that does not mean that you need to, listen to learn the hard way on the AHA radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. What's up, guys? This is Cliver Taylor the Fourth. And on my podcast, The Clifford Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker, this linebacker walks up to me.

He goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Time out. Quarterback on office blue with 42. Hey, rep, my mama want you to wave at her. What? Where's she at? Hey, Miss Park.

Listen to the Cliverts show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.