The Herd with Colin Cowherd - All Ball - Baylor HC Scott Drew On Coronavirus, Tourney Shutdown, What If's, Rebuilding Philosophy, Valpo Buzzer Beater

Episode Date: March 25, 2020

In this episode, Doug is joined by Baylor Head coach Scott Drew, who reacts to the abrupt end of the college basketball season from the COVID-19 pandemic and how his players are handling the layoff. He also discusses growing up as the son of longtime college hoops coach Homer Drew, playing at Butler, coaching under his dad, his younger brother Bryce's all-time March Madness buzzer beater for Valparaiso to beat Ole Miss in the 1998 tournament, and rebuilding a disgraced Baylor program into an absolute juggernaut. Make sure you download, rate and subscribe here to get the latest All Ball Podcasts! Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Go to 1-800flowers.com slash tune in. That's 1-800flowers.com slash tune in. Hey, what up? Welcome in. Your boy, Doug Gottlieb here. This is All Ball. Now remember, you can listen to the Doug Gottlieb show weekday. 12 to 3 Pacific Coast time, 3 to 6 Eastern Time. You can stream us, Fox Sports Radio.com. Like, you know, if you're working at home now, or you can use the IHeartRadio app. You can download the pod as well. It's Doug Gottlieb show. Anyway, my guest for this pod of a ball ball is Scott Drew. He's head coach Baylor.

They had a great year. They won 23 consecutive games. Almost. They did lose three of the last five. We want to talk about them getting ready for the tournament. But I want to talk about his kind of upbringing. He went to Butler where he kind of studied to be a coach. Coach under his dad.

Then coached with his brother. his dad, when his brother hit one of the most memorable shots in the history of college basketball. There is a ton to get to with him. So without further ado, let's get to Scott Drew. Be sure to catch the live edition of the Doug Gottlieb show weekdays at 3 p.m. Eastern, noon Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and the IHeart Radio app. Well, let's welcome him in. He's the head coach of the Baylor Bears who were ranked at one point in time number one in the country. They'd be Kansas at Kansas. But, you know, like so many elite teams in college basketball, we kind of feel unfulfilled, didn't get the Big 12 tournament chance to win the rubber match against KU.

Maybe in the big 12 tournament, of course, didn't get a chance to get to their first Final four under Scott Drew. He joins us. How are you dealing with everything, with the shortened season, with your family, with your team, all of this stuff that's been going on in the kind of week and a half, two weeks since everything was canceled. How are you handling it? Well, I can tell you one thing. God did not equip me to be a homeschool teacher. That's for sure. So with the kids, I got a 9, a 12, and a 15-year-old doing homeschool right now. That is definitely not my biggest strength. The good thing is, moms taking care of business, making sure they're doing well, and then I've been focusing on making sure our guys are all taking care of. We're

about 40% on campus, 60% at home, and making sure they're set up for their online classes, knowing how to handle that, do that, when they need to do that, and then making sure they're getting enough food and whatever they need to make sure they're in good health. Okay, that's fascinating. Okay, so you do have kids on campus. And nowadays, you know, it's different than, you know, like my freshman year of Notre Dame when you had a roommate actually in the room, right? like when I was at Oklahoma State, you had your own room, then you had like a common area,

and then I had my off-campus apartment, my junior and senior year. What's the living situation for your kids that are still on campus? Good question. So nowadays, you know, so many kids are from international countries. Some of them are in cities that are more infectious right now than where we have in Waco. So the ones that have stayed, apartments are on campus or close to campus. So their living is normal. It's changed is making sure they have places to eat from the standpoint.

Our nutrition centers no longer open and making sure that they have restaurants or different locations. As you know, everything's kind of shifted to carry out, but making sure that they know where to go. And we have a thing called bare fuel. where they can go with their school bear fuel to get meals where they're not coming out of pocket. And then obviously what restaurants are still open around them that they can go eat because at the end of the day, college kids, we've got to make sure they're eating proper nutrition, as you know.

Right. No, it's crazy, right? Like, so you have, you guys have this incredible training table, but you can't have it open now. So now you're just trying to get kids fed, and the thing you're trying to keep them away from is the only thing that's kind of available, right? Like you want to keep away from the carry out to take out the fast food, whatever, but that's the only stuff going. Okay, what about your, you guys have a spectacular basketball facility? Are they, can they go in by themselves?

Do you let them go in with a manager? How are you managing the shutdown in terms of guys wanting to get, kind of get some work in? Well, and that's where, as you know, pretty much every major conference in school is followed suit and closed down all the facilities. So no longer are they allowed to be in the practice gym, the wait room, the locker room, any areas, and that's all been closed off. So for a while, there was some church gyms open in town where guys could go work out by themselves or work out with two people on each end or whatnot.

But now they've, with each city has different mandates in our city with the shutdown now, none of that is open. So it is old school. There's some outdoor parks where as long as they're there by themselves or one other person rebounding, where they're staying spaced and we're not playing pickup or not doing twos or threes into any large group. But a lot of them right now in pairs, groups of two will go and want to rebound. one will shoot and that's what they're doing right now and that's all weather permitting of course yeah i mean like look at least you're in texas you guys we we've had a weird wet really wet spring uh but it's you know everything is everything is just so incredibly incredibly different um all

let's let's let's let's go back we'll get to this year because there's a lot to butt into um your your dad like my dad you know he's came your dad was more of a basketball legend and obviously lifer. Your dad was a legend now. He's very instant. Like in the, yeah, well, he was, he was on the all, um, uh, all lobby team. I think 10 years running at the final four. He's a, he's a, he's a, he's, his, uh, his, his, uh, his polo shirt is retired in the

lobby hall of fame at the final four. Okay. So what your, if you were to close your eyes and say, growing up, my life was like this. What's the image of what people should see the Drew family growing up? Well, it was probably playing basketball in their backyard, 101, 2-1-1. My dad's gym, basketball, baseball, football, whatever you could do in a gym. So one thing that your dad and my dad, I think, did a great job of us,

is that was they involved their lives with ours and allowed us to be a part of theirs. and because they allowed us to experience and spend time with us through their work, it made us appreciate it and like it and want to be a part of it. So I think it's a great testimony to what both our parents did by wanting us all to be a part of the basketball realm of things. If they would have done their own thing, kept us away from it, not involved us, then you probably wanted to have been in basketball, me and my brother wouldn't

enough. Your brother won't enough. So that's why I think, again, I was blessed like you to have a dad that involved us. You grew up basically in South Bend, right? Because your dad was at Bethel, which for people don't know, Bethel is in South Bend. It's at NIAA school in South Bend. What was that like? Because that's your, you were like six through, I'm going to say six through 17, right before he went to, and then he went to Indiana, South Bend for a year. Then he obviously went Devalpo right about when you were getting ready for college. What was, so when you say my dad's gym, that's going over to Bethel College, you, your brother, and messing around, that's early life?

And my sister, yeah, what was great was they, it was an NAA school. So it was a gym that was smaller, and it was kind of like you felt like you had your own gym because it wasn't a lot of seats. It wasn't one of those 5,000 seat arenas. It was probably like maybe a thousand people. So it was mostly just a court, and then bleachers on the side. So it was perfect. You had the stage where that was the home run wall when you're playing wiffleball,

football, that was your end zone. Basketball, I mean, obviously, you had your – during that time, they didn't use the gym for – besides basketball practice, really. And, you know, back in those days, you only practiced during seasons. So out of season, you really had a – like a kid growing up, you had your own gym. So it was awesome. My dad would be in the office working, then he'd come out and play with us,

and then he'd go back to work out and break up fights, whatever. So I'm just so you know, like that's one of the other gyms in South Bend I've actually been to because I think I don't know. Notre Dame, they never built a basketball facility, but they have another gym called the pit inside the arena, and then they have other auxiliary gyms in there. But for graduation in wintertime, everything's closed up, So we went over to Bethel and we practiced a couple of days.

What do you remember about your dad's teams? How did they play when he was at Bethel? Oh, but they were... Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in.

I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise. Breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves. Their locker room, stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzerbeaters

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like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker walks up to me, he goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Time out. Quarterback on office, Blue, 42. A rep, my mama want you to wave at her.

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available on the IHart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Most of the AIA teams are very guard-oriented. If you had a 6-5 guy or 6-8 guy, you were, it's a great big at that level at that time. So it was mostly guards, and that means a lot of long shots. Back in those days, it was more, less ball screen, stuff, less isolation, more ball movement, more screens off the ball. But again, their teams were, I mean, usually they won, from my recollection, 20 plus, and usually it was 25 plus games a year.

So they were really successful. And as you know, from being in Indiana, there's a lot of good basketball at the NAA level. And the national tournament was always in Tennessee Chattanooga, and I think it was at Temple University and great memories growing up going down there when they played in the national tournament. What grows in the forest? Trees? Sure.

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Slash the right seat. Brought to you by Nidza and the Ad Council. Why did he go to, do you remember why he, I'm probably should ask him, why do you go to Indiana South Bend for that one year before going over to Valpo? What led to him leaving? Because he was a long time. Good question. So when he left Bethel, I think it was a, he felt like he'd virtually accomplished everything he could there.

And IUSB was trying to start a, had a chance to, with the resources to maybe grow into something more. And I think the challenge of that probably excited him. And then at the same time, it's not like you have to move cities or anything. So you get that, you get that breath of fresh air, new challenge, and a new opportunity, and yet you're not uproot and everything. So that's why I think you went there originally was at LSU as an assistant with Dale Brown back in the day. And I think my mom tells a story.

He was gone like 156 nights his last year, and he came home one night. And me and my brother and sister were like I thought he was a burglar because, you know, he was never around much. So at that point, you and I know how the basketball profession works. I mean, he was on the fast track to be a young head coach in Division I level and virtually gave that up so he could go to an NAA school and spend more time with us as kids and a fession. I mean, that was a heck of a sacrifice he made for the family, and hence I think why I'm a brother and I and sister are so appreciative. Why did you get a Butler?

Well, at the time, Valpo had never had a winning season in Division I basketball. And you had Barry Collier, you had Jay John, Thad, Mottie had a more established program, for me to learn from someone besides my dad. And I was able to still this day, Jay John came to one of our practices a couple weeks ago. And again, Thad Mata had an unbelievable career, and Barry Collier really started and transformed the Baylor basketball program. So when I came and worked for my dad,

I was able to actually bring some different ideas or different thoughts rather than having that opportunity. So your plan the whole time was, hey, I want to be a basketball coach. And then I'll go learn from somebody else and then come back and work for you. Like, there was a whole plan. Like, did you sit down with your dad? This is what I want to do. Did everybody just know that's what you want to do?

Like, how did, because like, look, I remember when I was 17, 18, I actually graduated high school at 19. I had, you know, I had like kind of three-pronged plan, right? Like I wanted to play and make the NBA or play as long as I could. And then I either wanted to coach or be a broadcaster. There was a thought that went into everything, who I played for, how they're connected, et cetera. Is that how you decided to go to Butler, and ultimately you wanted to be a coach, and that's one of the reason you chose that as a school? Well, and that's one of the things I started doing even when I was a – I knew that's something that I just always loved doing, and partly because playing with brothers and sisters in the gym and going to camp and running camp and all that stuff at an early age.

But what I also remember is one of my first memories with my dad was going recruiting, and I thought it was so cool. But I was sleeping, and next thing I knew I woke up, and there's these lights going on and off, and he got pulled over for speeding, and I thought, you know, this is kind of like an amusement park or something. Can you do that again, Dad? But that was some of my first memories going recruiting with my dad,

keeping stats, probably getting him popcorn, and it kind of like you think that's what you do. You know, I mean, that's lightball summer long. You're going to camps. You're working camps. You're running camps. You're doing this. Did you only do his camps or did you go away to any other camp?

No. But I went to Valpa University's camp. I work in Notre Dame's camping, both camps. But in the day, you know how camps were. They were seven days a week. And it was for two months straight, it seemed like. And at the end of summer, you're like, thank goodness, we got school.

Oh, man, camp legs. The hard part was trying to play basketball after doing a day of camp. Like, you get those camp legs and you're just, you're just terrible. I mean, remember camp, you weren't hooping. You were working on fundamentals. I mean, you're doing good. No, you're working very funnels and you're doing jump stops and ball handling it. You're like, dang.

And your whole equilibrium is thrown off because, you know, they're going, you've got to manage them in the dorms. You got to get them to eat, you know, you got to, they got to go. Sometimes they got to swim. All the camp stuff. Okay. So you're at Butler. You mentioned Barry Collier. You mentioned Jay John.

What about Barry Collier? How did that? Because, you know, like, look, Brad took him to the finals twice and obviously he took him to heights. No one could have seen. You know, they've had kind of a laundry list of amazing, amazing coaches.

But Barry took them their first Sweet 16, and now he's the athletic director. What about, what was he like as a coach? If you were trying to relate, this is why Barry Collier worked. What would it be? Well, Barry was probably one of the most organized people. You could be around. He was somebody that everything was down to the second, very detailed, no stone left unturned.

You kind of like think of a factory. I mean, everything was well-oiled and an assembly line. I mean, very structured and disciplined. And you know what? that's harder to do with the, because you didn't have as many support staff as you might have at some other schools. And I mean, just how he ran everything was probably from somewhere to his Stanford influence, and Mike Montgomery as far as organization goes and whatnot.

But that's what I remember most about. You go, so you get done in school, right? And 93, you're going to graduate 93. and then I took a job with my dad as restricted earnings coach, making $600 a month, and living at home because that's the only place you could afford to. But my dad made me get my master's. So that was part of the deal. And hence, if you and I know by that time, after you finish college, you really aren't excited

about studying anymore. So I actually got my master's in one year, and later they changed it. so no one could do that again, but knock that thing out. And then I was very blessed and fortunate from the standpoint. I was able to become a full-time assistant at a very young age. I think I was the following year, so I was like one of the youngest assistants, if not the youngest in the country. But you're going ahead of me.

You're going ahead of me a little bit because in trying to go back and look, like when your dad got to Valpo, Valpo was terrible, and his first four or five years, they were still terrible, right? Like 10 wins first year, then four, five, five, 12. And then I should point out that his first 21 season correlated with you as restricted earnings coach. Okay, so you come over from Butler, and Butler was in the horizon at time. You guys are in the mid-con. As you point out, Valpo hadn't had a winning season, let alone 20 win seasons,

hadn't been the NCAA tournament ever, playing that little place called the Ark, right? And then for people who don't know where Valpo is, what is it, 30 minutes outside of South Bend? Is that right? 30 or 40? It's about 50 minutes. You know, speed limits, they keep raising it, so you might make it in 45 or 30. But you're right. It's kind of between Chicago and South Bend.

Right, right. And Chicago, South Bend, with no traffic is an hour and a half, and it's slightly off to the side there. So, you know, but you're not, you're not like 15 minutes from Chicago. you're still probably an hour from Chicago. Anyway, but it's kind of a 30,000 people on like a college truck stop sort of town, right? Where South Bend's a bigger city. Why did it take, in your opinion, and I know you weren't there during the bad years, but you're sharing all the information, all the stuff with your dad.

Why did it take him? I mean, obviously it turned. Why did it take him so long? And then what made it turn to being the kind of behemoth that it was? Yeah, great question. So the first thing is when he took the job, Digger Phelps had told him, don't go there, no one has ever won there, no one will ever win there, it's a dead-in job. So that kind of excited my dad because my dad loved challenges.

So Digger was trying to help him, like, don't go there. And he actually excited him to go there. But as you know, no matter what type of coach you are, you're never going to win without good. It takes time to get, when I say good players, players that fit your system, fit your style, your culture, athletic enough and talented enough to win. It took them some time to have some good players, but not enough depth, not enough to do the things that he wanted to do. The program was from Arizona University, and David Redmond was a transfer from Arkansas

Little Rock, and both of them were from Valparaisal High School. And then Tracy Gibson was a outstanding player from Michigan City. uh, Rogers, so you had three local kids right away and by his junior conference. And then you added David and Casey and they became eligible that first year that I was there. So talent at that time. And it's a little easier to keep it rather than to actually get one going. And I can tell you, um, uh, the first year that I was there. I remember Brad Underwood was at Western Illinois. And both of us were the dormats of the mid-con. I'm Tony Bennett and his dad, Dick Bennett, Green Bay, that was like the UIC was very talented and good.

And I mean, yeah, the Cleveland was. I remember Brad and I talking and we're like, one day we're gonna be at the top. And the irony is, and I know I'm a fast forward and we can come back, but the irony is, I think it was bountable in Western Illinois and three straight. Last night, a blown call changed a game.

This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise. Breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear.

The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the big. people who live them. Listen to SportsSlice on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my

own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing and we're still chasing it and we don't know when we've done enough because people scoreboard watch

life becomes about wins and losses Steve Burns, Dustin Ross because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth or are you a good person because you're afraid because that's two different intentions bro absolutely and that's two different levels of trust I want you to just really be a good person

Join me, Keir Gaines, as we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hardway. Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. What's up, guys? This is Clivert Taylor the Fourth. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker, this linebacker walks up to me, he goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to. wave at her. What? Time out. Quarterback on office blue of 42. Hey, Brett. My mama

want you to wave at her. What? Where's she at? Hey, Miss Parker. Listen to the Clifford show on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Hey, I'm Jared Adano. You might know me as that loud guy who yells out, help on the internet. Help! Somebody!

Please! But there's so much more. mortar me than me. I'm an actor. I'm a comedian. And recently, I've become quite the helper myself. And on my new podcast, hope from a hypocrite, I'll be changing lives, helping people in need with my sage advice and thoughtful solutions. Sike, I'm a comedian. I'm not qualified to give good advice. Join me and my comedian friends as we riff, rant, recommend some of the most legally dubious advice known to man. If I'm calling you, even if you're on your phone, Let it ring twice.

One ring is too scary. Oh, cream a chicken suit. Hey, cream a chicken suit. This is Help from a Hypocrite, the worst advice from the dumbest people you know. Listen to Help from Hypocrite as part of the Mike Coutura Podcast Network available on the IHartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Mid-Kine Conference Championship games. And it took us both a number of years to get there, but we did get there. well it also helped that your brother is the best player in the history of Valpo and so yeah that that what happened there was

hold on I want to get I want to get to that okay so your brother is class of 94 I believe and which and I was class of 95 and I saw Notre Dame would not have been an option had your brother simply gone there a town he grows up in John McLeod was the coach then it wasn't wasn't Digger that had that had been handed and obviously everybody wanted your brother and he stayed home to play for your dad and you. What was that? I'm going to have him on at some point. He can tell his side of the story. But I'm sure you get you move back home. Here your brother is, burgeoning all-American.

Your dad's trying to turn the program around. Take me through how that actually played out. Well, it was real easy. We told them if you wanted to be in the family's, will if you ever wanted to get a Christmas gift if you ever wanted to do anything with us he had to come to Valpo at the time so we got that done uh in all seriousness what what what would actually had happened was uh as Bryce became a better player he got recruited and took official visits from Stanford to Notre Dame to Syracuse and was Mr. Basketball in the state of Indiana and so he

could have gone anywhere remember Valpo had never won and the year that that he's finished in up high school, Valpa wins 20 and actually has a chance to maybe get to an NCAA tournament, and you're like, man, you can win here. And he signs late, and I think because both coincided, and what I mean by that is if Valp would won five or six games, I don't know if my dad would have been as excited about Bryce going to Valpo from the standpoint. He wanted to play in the NCAA tournament. he wanted to have a chance to accomplish his goals and dreams of being a part of March Madness and playing against other quality teams and winning.

Before he got there, by us getting close and winning 20 games, it was like, can get to the tournament and be a winner. And I think that all coincided with him finishing his career, he visited those schools. And as we ratcheted up the heat, I think I started making his bed for him, and my mom made his favorite breakfast every day. And next thing you know, we got the commitment. And the irony is we didn't have a scholarship. Probably the best walk on in Vowal history

or maybe in the state of Indiana a walk on history. And then the sophomore year he got a scholarship, I believe that's how it worked. Look through your children's eyes to see the true magic of a forest. It's a storybook world for them. You look and see a tree.

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this. We reconnect with each other. The forest is closer than you think. Find a forest near you and start exploring at Discovertheforest.org. Brought to you by the United States Forest Service and the Ad Council. Adoption of teens from foster care is a topic not enough people know about and we're here to change that. I'm April Dinwiddie host of the new podcast Navigating Adoption presented by Adopt U.S. Kids. Each episode brings you compelling real-life adoption stories told by the families that live them with commentary from experts. Visit adoptuskids.org slash podcast or subscribe to navigating adoption presented by Adopt U.S. Kids.

Brought to you by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services Administration for Children and Families and the Ad Council. Okay, so then what was that dynamic like? Like, look, you've always gone in the gym and been with your dad. You'd coached Bryce in AAU, but now all of a sudden, as you point out, you get bumped up to being an assistant. your dad's a head coach. Bryce is a freshman, a team that had already won 20 games.

What was that experience like early on? One thing that I'll pass on to any other coach's sons out there, Dick Bennett, Tony Bennett, one thing that they'd given great advice to my brother, and that was in the gym and shoot, because when you go in the locker room, people are going to be upset with your dad, and it's easier if you're there not to hear about that. So that was really good advice, and Ron Hunter and his son. And RJ, when he was going to coach him, he had asked for the same advice. And I wish my brother and dad hadn't been so honest because remember RJ hit the shots to upset us in the first round,

and I don't know if we really needed them being on that team looking back at things. But that is really good advice for other coaches' sons out there after a tough practice or when the players are mad at your dad. Don't go in the locker room until they've got a chance to shower, cool down a little bit. Because that puts you in a bad position. But research from other coach, what advice, what thoughts? And basically, I had always worked out my brother, so what was great was after every practice, I'm going to work them out extra anyway.

And so he just lived in the gym, and you didn't have near the restrictions you do nowadays with 20 hours, practice time, all that kind of stuff. And he would tell you, too, is you and I know teams are harder for each other. Well, who are you going to play harder for than your dad, you know, or your brother? and I think that made me want to recruit harder and make sure he had a team. And I'm sure my dad did the same thing because when he came to Valpo, turn down those opportunities to play with us and tournament championships. And on CBS or championships or conference tournament championships.

And Valpo's one of them. I think Murray State's one of them. And then Gonzag is the other one. So that mark still around today. Amazing stuff. 1998. I was in Lexington, Kentucky. We had played the first game of the day against George Washington and won.

Chante Rogers was their point guard. Mike Jarvis was their head coach. He wasn't fun handling him against him, was it? I wasn't bad. It was a weird team. He was like a 5-6-5-7 point guard, and then they had all these giant Russians. So he wasn't that quick and on-ball defender? Yeah, he was good.

I mean, that stuff didn't really bother me, right? Like, no, because people, you know, there wasn't a point yet where people played way off me, but no, ball pressure didn't really, really bother. I mean, they, we just, we felt like we were massively underseated because we lost a, we were the, we won the South back when the, the Big 12, as you remember, was separated north and south. And, and then we lost to Texas, Tom Pender's last win. He played slow for the first time, and they upset us in the big tour. So we got like an eight seed, and we should have been like a four. Like we were ranked the whole year. It was real, but we played a soft schedule.

Anyway, we get back, and we throw on Ole Miss Valpo is on. And the reason we're all watching is I got Adrian Peterson's our best player. He's from Little Rock, Arkansas. Alex Weber's on our team. He's from Circe, Arkansas. And they have Keith Carter's an Arkansas kid. Yes. You know, they have, remember this, Ansu Sise was on that team, Jason Smith, Anthony Boone, who's now the head coach, I think at Central Arc.

He was the interim now named full-time head coach. Mike White, who's the head coach at Florida, of course, was their point guard. Anyway, all of our guys knew all of their guys. Yeah. And their staff knew our staff, et cetera, et cetera. So we throw on the game, and it's in Oklahoma City at the Myriad, which is next to the Chesapeake Energy Arena now. the Thunder play. And we're watching Bryce and your team, Jamie Sykes and Bill Jenkins and the rest of the team.

What do you forget? We'll get to Pacer and the play. What do you remember about the game? Nobody ever talks about that game. They only talk about the play. What do you remember about the game? Of all, what I remember is a coach was we went to an early shoot-around that day. And I remember it was a big question, do you go to shoot-around, not shoot-around because it was an early game.

so the shoot-around was like at 7 a.m. And I remember having great energy, and early bird gets the worm and all that stuff trying to motivate your guys. But what I really thought was driving into the tunnel, I was thinking, you know, this could be the last time I coach my brother. Like, dang, I don't want it to end. And with that senior class, Bill and Bob Jenkins,

Jamie Sykes, but they never won an NCAA tournament game. And they'd been really close the year before, got out to a great start against Boston College and they had the big fella, the 6-7 monster inside. Billy Curly? Oh, no, Danny Abrams. Yeah, Donny Abrams. Donny Abrams.

And so the first half, my brother hits like five or six threes, and everything's going great, and then they go to a boxing one. We're ready for that, you know? Not that we hadn't been boxing one before, but you don't expect a big East school to do that, you know? And they end up winning at the end at the end, the rebound. So if he hangs his head, if the team doesn't point in the game, now it's a two-point game at the time.

So if he hits that three, we're up one with, what, 10, 12 seconds to go, but we miss. So now you come back down at like five seconds or something, and Ansu Csays, he's just got to make one to go up three. We don't get a clean rebound. More time comes off the clock. You'd mention Keith Carter an outstanding player, but he had a long wing span was athletic. He's over the ball, and with 2.5 seconds, everybody knows out of timeouts to line up in Pacer,

and Jamie Sykes is a baseball player. So the first thing is he's going to throw a great pass. But he pump fakes to get Keith up in the air because his wingspan he needed to. So now what goes up must come down. When he's coming down, you're throwing the pass. A great athlete was a volleyball player back in the day. and really could jump. Did a great job. Last night, a blown call changed a game.

This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise. Breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines.

We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the eyes. highlight reel. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. SportsSlice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them.

Listen to SportsClyce on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. recognition of mental health awareness month. I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking. Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark.

Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it in. important to be a good person while you hear on earth?

Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, is we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, learn the hard way.

Open your free, our heart radio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. What's up, guys? This is Clever Taylor the Fourth. And on my podcast, The Cliver Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker, this linebacker walks up to me.

He goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Quarterback on office blue with 42. Hey, rep, my mama want you to wave at her. What? Where's she at? Hey, Miss Parker. Listen to the Cliverts show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

Hey, I'm Jared Adano. You might know me as that loud guy who yells out, help on the internet. Help! Somebody! Please! But there's so much more to me than that. I'm an actor. I'm a comedian.

And recently, I've become quite the helper myself. And on my new podcast, Hope from a Hippocrite, I'll be changing lives, helping people in need with my sage advice and thoughtful. Scyke! I'm a comedian! I'm not qualified to give good advice! Join me and my comedian friends as we riff rant recommend some of the most legally dubious advice known to man. If I'm calling you, even if you're on your phone, let it ring twice. One ring is too scary. Oh, cream of chicken suit. Hey, cream, cream a chicken suit. This is Help from a Hypocrite, the worst advice from the dumbest people you know. Listen to Help from a Hypocrite as part of the

Mike Coutura Podcast Network available on the IHart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Going up in traffic, catching it, and then obviously my brother knocks it down, and the irony is he thought the shot was short, and he said God's Angel lifted that over because he really thought it was short. And then when it goes in, time expires, he dives on the floor, and everyone wants to know why did you dive on the floor where he had Bill Jenkins running one way, Bob, the other way. So that's like two six-six guys at bench press over 300 pounds. You've got to hit the floor.

And then everybody jumps on top of the pile, and you go into the locker room, you celebrate. And this was before, I mean, now it's before cell phones. This is old school, right? So you go back to the hotel, and everybody's going crazy. You're watching the highlight. You got all the interviews. Well, you've got to unplug the phones from the wall of the hotel, because people are calling all night long trying to get interviews,

and they don't know who they're calling. They're just calling rooms. So you've got to actually, we had to do bed check and make sure all the phones were undone. But it was a great night. I can tell you that for sure. What's crazy about it. What's crazy about it to me is,

I don't think anybody even realizes that then you had to go overtime to be Florida State the next game. It's almost like that moment is so big and so iconic. Whatever happened to Valpo? You didn't lose the next game. You went and won the next game in overtime, and then got to play Rhode Island, who was an unbelievable team, right? The team had beaten Kansas.

So with Florida State, I can tell you one thing I remember, and this was when you remember you'd get to the arena and you'd watch the other teams like, is you're getting ready to get on the floor, they're finishing up practice. And I remember with that Florida State team, they had, and you probably already know all the roster, because you know everything,

but they had like four guys over 610 that could just dunk. And I mean, that whole team was so athletic, and they were doing a dunk thing at the end for the fans. And our guys were sitting there like, their managers are dunking. And I remember getting ready to play them. The only thing we said is no dunks. All right, because we know they can do that real well.

And, again, that was a great team. Coach Robinson, I believe coached that team. And we ended up winning that game in overtime. And then what transpired on the way before we played Rhode Island was we're coming back and everybody flies. commercial back in those days. And I remember we're coming back and pulling up on the campus. And literally, we have to stop a block before getting to the arc, which is what was going to go on.

And it was kind of like in the bus and knocking on the windows, like that environment. And the security guards came on and said, we'll form a tunnel. So right away us coaches being smart, we made Bill and Bob lead us through. and we just followed them because everybody got out of their way, and then Rhode Island, what people don't realize was, remember Coach Herrick coach Rhode Island, and he'd already won a national championship at UCLA, but his son, Jim Herrick Jr., was on our staff time,

and he was on the staff's tents that weekend practice than I've ever seen him because he did not want to lose to his dad, and that was a great game. He got knocks on the door. And the team back, he goes, None of the Valpo fans have left the arena. You got to bring the team back and leave the arena. And for the Valpo team to come back out,

players went out, acknowledged the crowd, and then they finally would leave the arena so the security guards could clean up. If I could be you. And you could be me for just one hour. If you could find a way to get inside. Each other's mind. Walk a mile in my shoes.

Walk a mile in my shoes. Walk a mile in my shoes. We've all felt left. out. And for some, that feeling lasts more than a moment. We can change that. Learn how at belonging begins with us.org. Brought to you by the ad council. How did it work with your dad handing the job off to you? Did he get sick? And that's why he had to step aside? Or was he just, did he needed a break? Because this is in, I'm going to say, what, 2002, right? He stepped aside for a year and you took over. How did that actually take place? Well, he

at that point thought about maybe do I get into administration and their assist with the basically he was he went or wanted to see he was young enough where do I do I do something else? He knew I

wanted to be a head coach and I know it was a great opportunity for me and at the end of the day I never would want him to step away to give me an opportunity but I really thought that it was God's timing from the standpoint.

He wanted to pursue some other things, or at least see what else was out there, and he wanted to work on his golf game a little bit, and he wanted to do some things. He's a specialist, and then I coach for a year, and the year being out and basically figured out his golf game wasn't going to improve that much, and that he liked the university

and doing some really missed the couple. And if the, the job hadn't opened at Baylor. He was at that point thinking about trying to get back into coaching or maybe the NBA, but he wanted to do something again with basketball. So it worked out perfect after one year. I went to Baylor, and he was able to go back into coaching. And I think after 20, 30 years, it's kind of like teachers.

You know how many years they do a sabbatical where they can refresh or pastors do that. And I think that's what he was able to do. and then it worked out great. He's back coaching, and then my brother finishes up his business with my dad, which my dad loves, and he gets an opportunity to help. When you took over the bailer job,

this is right about when I had started in media, and I had known some of the stuff that was going on before you got. I'm like no one knew kind of the depth of it or how they would handle it. But, you know, it's about as, it's about as bad a situation as anyone can walk into. How did it happen? Take me through. You're a head coach at Valpo.

You're taking over your dad's program. You do it for a year. And now you have this national story about Baylor, the nation's biggest Baptist school and this terrible tragedy and all the things going on. How'd you get the job? Well, in foremost, we had, it was different because the job. job wasn't filled until late August.

And normally, as you know, most coaching jobs are filled in April. So we're getting ready to start our season. And Bob Bodine and his search firm, they were the ones that did the search. And Tim Floyd at that time had coached my brother with the Bulls and with the Hornets. And he had thought he had reached out and thought that that would be a great opportunity. and something similar to what my dad did at Valparaiso University. And being at Iowa State and knowing about Baylor and the Big 12, thought that that could be a really good situation for me.

So I talked to the leadership at Bayer at the time and knew what their vision was for the program and how they wanted to do it and prayed about it and felt led to go there. And my, like you said, you had a three-prong goal list, and one of my goals was always to coach at a place where you could go to final fours and compete for national championships. And at Valpo and mid-major schools, you can always do that.

But obviously at Power 5 schools, the percentages are greater to do that. And my dad had an opportunity to start and build a program, and that's for me to do the same thing. and I had the blueprint, and it's been a lot of time helping my dad with comfortable and being able to take on a challenge like that. And then from there, at the end of the day, you and I know there was a lot of work to do, so time kind of flew, and one year led to two years to three-running. The first year you kind of take over, you just kind of try and make it work, right,

and just kind of get it through. The second year was the year, when did you have six players? like six scholarship players. We started the year, I think it's seven, and then eight, and then we had some academic issues, some suspension issues, and you get down to six players, and the one walk-on try-out. We not only had to have walk-ons, but it was a walk-on dream. You could be on the team and play. Walk-ons, and I'm to find anybody with height, and I remember Coach Driscoe and I, one evening, we're at Fizzoli's, and we're at the drive-thru on the way back to the office,

and there's a six-eight guy, and we're like, where do you go to school? and he's like, I go to Baylor, and I said, where do you live? You're a sophomore where? You've got to come to tryouts, and then never heard from them again. And then we spent the next week trying to find him, and obviously he didn't go to Baylor, otherwise we'd have found him. But we have this walk-on tryout, and we show up for the walk on tryout,

and when we get down there, there's some height, and there's some athleticism. And we're like, whoa, where did this come from? We're pretty excited. We call everyone over, and we say, all right, we need to know what year you are at Baylor, where you live at Baylor. We actually have to go to Baylor, and the answer is, yes, you've got to be a student here. So we had had kids from junior colleges. We had had people from Dallas.

They had driven down thinking you didn't have to go to Baylor, and you could just walk on the team at Baylor. So right away, we had to get rid of all those people, and then tryouts went down to what they normally look like when you have a lot of walk-ons, and that's a lot of guys under 6-2, you know. So anyway, we went from real promising walk-out, try-outs, to a little more reality, but we were able to find some guys that really worked hard, really competed, and really helped lay the foundation for the future recruits we brought

into the program. And that year was a remarkable year from the stand-ed-up winning three games. And I can... And when I say three conference games. No, three-conference on the next three-one-one. Yeah, and then reality came in out. As you know, once you start bringing in recruits, now we really didn't have a chance. to recruit because by the time you take the job, it's late August, so transfers and they have to

sit out. Well, then they had that thing your third year. You had no non-conference games, right? And that was something, if anyone ever has that happened to them where they get only a conference season, we're the only ones, we're the experts, because we're the only ones that have ever gone through something like that. And that was probably one of the most difficult things is we've really. recruited a really good class, a talented class, and that class kind of turned the corner

as far as competing and winning and help lead us to the NCAA tournament. We found out in year three that we weren't going to have a non-conference and telling the players that, and then seeing how bought in they were to the program that they were going to stay and practice and compete and talk about a tough thing. I mean, imagine doing drill work and practices all the way. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened.

That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise. Breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down,

give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. SportsLice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to SportsSlice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations

with so many incredible guests. I'm talking. Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing and we're still chasing it and we don't know when we've done enough

because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth? Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust.

I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, is we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose. On my new podcast, Learn the Hardway. Open your free, our heart radio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. What's up, guys? This is Clever Taylor the Fourth. And on my podcast, The Cliver Show, I'm bringing you.

conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker, this linebacker walks up to me, he goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Time out. Quarterback on office blue 42.

Hey, rep, my mama want you to wave at her. What? Where's she at? Hey, Miss Parker. Listen to the Clippers show on the I-Hard Radio app. podcast or wherever you get your podcast. Hey, I'm Jared Adano. You might know me as that loud guy who yells out,

help on the internet. Help! Somebody! Please! But there's so much more to me than that. I'm an actor. I'm a comedian. And recently, I've become quite the helper myself. And on my new podcast, hope from a hypocrite, I'll be changing lives,

helping people in need with my sage advice and thoughtful solutions. Sike, I'm a comedian. I'm not qualified to give good advice. Join me and my comedian friends as we riff rant and recommend some of the most legally dubious advice known to man. If I'm calling you, even if you're on your phone, let it ring twice. One ring is too scary. Oh, cream a chicken suit.

Hey, cream. Cream a chicken suit. This is Help from a Hypocrite, the worst advice from the dumbest people you know. Listen to Help from Hypocrite as part of the Mike Coutura podcast network available on the IHart Radio app, Apple Podcasts. or wherever you get your podcasts. Yep, to January. I mean, that's not the easiest thing to do, and everyone's having midnight madness,

and everyone's having an opening night, and everyone's having all their Thanksgiving tournaments, and then the Christmas. So that was tough, and what was really hard about that, though, was here's how I equate it to. When you're on the freeway, everybody's driving 65,

and Texas, it might be 75. But when you're getting on the ramp to get on, you're going 40, then you go 50, 60, and you've got to catch up. Well, that's what it's like when you don't play a non-conference schedule. I mean, you can drill to your blue in the face, but games are different. As you know, the adrenaline's different, the energy is different, and then so we wait that long to play the first couple games, and then when you play the first couple games, you're terrible

because you're just adjusting and getting used to playing, and that's why you play a non-conference to prepare you for conference. So the worst thing was seeing us not be successful after we waited that long to play games. Was there ever a point, and that year, not only did they, you're not allowed to play non-conference, but you open up the conference play on the road at Texas Tech. At Texas Tech, right?

I think was coached by Bob Knight at that time. No, by Coach Knight, yes, sir. Yeah, yeah. So, hey, listen, no one on conference games. And then, listen, we're going to start you off on the road at Tech. Then, yeah, and then home Eddie Sutton in Oklahoma State, then you go on the road to Colorado. Those are your first three games. And I might be wrong. I think we even got the buy.

So I think the first week we might have had a buy, then we went to Texas Tech, because I think they had a buy that year. But I remember we started the game against Texas. Yes. Yes. You started with the buy, so you didn't play until January 11th, and everybody else had played a game. Like we needed a buy, huh? So the toughest thing was we, we, we, we, You start against tech, and you know what? We come out, I think we score our first four out of five buckets.

Play in the beginning of the game, that's for sure. Parathon, you know, you'd come out of the gates really fast. And I go, snap, I got 26 miles to still go. So the next – so I would say that year, though, one of the guys who turned to a program was Curtis Jarrells, right? And CJ, if I remember, wasn't he from Austin? He was from Austin. Henry Dugat was from Houston area, and then Kevin Rogers was from Dallas. And those three really did a great job in helping lead that rebuilding.

And by the end of the conference, they had shown the league that these guys were pretty talented, and they were going to be pretty – You didn't make the tournament. You won, was it, 28 games in 2009, 2010? So how do you – if somebody's sitting at home, and that year you go all the way to the lead eight and Duke and the charge call, et cetera, et cetera. How do you do it? How do you turn a program from one that, you know,

five years before didn't have a non-conference game to win in 28 games and losing to the eventual national champions in like a one-two possession game. How'd that change happen? Well, I think everybody always talks about you've got to have goals, you've got to have dreams, you've got to have visions, but it's the journey, it's the process. And every day, if you're just trying to do everything you can to get better that day, then before long you're there. and I know as corny as that sounds, I mean, we had so much work to do to bring in players and still the culture, build what Baylor basketball is today, that people like, didn't you get discouraged, didn't you get down?

When you're that busy, you don't really have time to get down or discouraged because you're just trying to make the most of each and every day, and then before long you're there. And, I mean, there is no substitute for hard work, and there is no substitute for doing everything you can to win the day. And that's basically what we did. And it took a little longer than some places, but at the same time, and it's going to change this year. Carolina didn't win 18.

But for the last 12 seasons, if you look at the Power 5, there's Kansas, North Carolina, so now North Carolina will be out. And then you have Michigan State and Baylor are the only Power 5. schools to win 18 or more games for 13 straight years now since the season's over right now. And that's 13 years of a lot of consistency. And you and I know how hard it is to be consistent at this level year in and year out with all the transfers, the one and duns and everything else that affects programs. I would also say that that run to the NIT finals against Penn State, you're in between

because you made the NCAA tournament was in 2008, right? So you make the NCAA tournament and all those guys, all those guys you said, you know, Henry Dugat and Curtis Gerald's get a chance to play in the tournament. But then to see yourself winning in the postseason, and granted, the tournament's great and it's an unbelievable accomplishment, but to win several games, to win four or five games and to get to a championship game where you're one of only a handful of teams still playing, I thought that was a big part of your programs build for the long term. and it really helped you the next year when you went to the lead eight. Absolutely. That's the coaching in you right there because going to the tournament's outstanding, but winning in postseason is just different. And if you win in the NIT and you get a chance to go to a final four in Madison Square Garden,

that's – if you ask players, most of them will tell you that's better than losing in the first round of the NCAA tournament. And I mean, the NIT doesn't have a lot of the NCA tournament. unbelievable job putting on a tremendous program, but there's something about winner-go-home mentality, winning in postseason. It's just different. And when you get to a final four with us, the first time we got into the NCAA tournament, I will tell you a quick story on that. And that is, and so you feel like you're good when he says you're in. But this is in the beginning of his career, so he didn't have that long track record. So we have

CBS come and they're broadcast and you know the selection show. He was going to go to the tournament in 20 years. Some people may be there, selection show, and team by team by team goes, when you get down to the last team, and at that point you're like, what do we tell these people that are here expecting us to get in? And then you get in,

I don't know if I've ever celebrated as loud and as hard for the next five seconds as I did right there, and that was Baylor basketball. Then what you said, winning in the post tradition, going, and that definitely enabled us to have that elite eight run. But then a couple years later, we actually won the NIT championship. And I tell you what, cutting down the nets in Madison Square Garden, that's a memory that will stick with those guys for a lifetime as well.

And it goes back to what you said. Winning in postseason is just special. When did you – when did you – and I know like – game play nearly as much zone here last couple of years. But you started to become known for the zone. Where did that come from? Well, we had in recruiting, we've always tried to attract the best players that fit our program and then adjust our style based on our personnel.

We had a really long team. And when you had Anthony Jones at 610, 611 at the 3, sometimes it's hard for 611 guys. to guard guards. But you know what? You put them in his zone. It's hard for guards to score over them. And we've had some really big three men from Anthony Jones to 610, Quincy Miller,

Torian Prince at 6'4 8. We started playing zone, and then elite shot blockers and putting them at the rim, like Epe Udo. That got us to the lead eight in 2010, and then 2012. So in 2010, you lose to Duke

who wins it all, and you're like, man, In 2012, sorry, little man's done with homeschool. He's asking for recess. But in 2012, we have, we lose to Kentucky who ends up winning it all, and you're like, 16 lost to Wisconsin to the final four. So I'm in, obviously, we would have a love this year having a chance to be a number one seed or a one or even a two in Baylor history to see if we could have broke through and won a national championship.

All right, so the bad part is that this team, you're going to lose Bandew, Gillespie, at least, right? And maybe, you know, there's a, you know, you have a handful of seniors, you have some other guys that have some decisions to make. But, you know, Tristan Clark should be healthier next year with the knee, right? You would, you would think, although maybe that's a side discussion for here's a kid who's been rehab of the knee and now he can't get around the trainers to help him rehab his knee. It's got to stink. But let's just talk to this team because you had this magnificent run over the last year and a half with most of this group. I've talked to Bill Self about it. And Bill's like, and obviously their scale is different in Kansas.

And his thing is you're not going to win a national title. Get to a Final Four every year. You want to put yourself in a position where the bad years you compete for a league title, obviously, as bad years, he's won a league title. But the bad years. And then there's some years where you just know, hey, we got a shot to win the whole thing. coming into this season, what were your personal expectations of your team? Well, I thought we could win a national championship, but if you're asking me, did I think our team would win 23 straight games?

Yes, that's my question. We would be ranked number one longer than anyone since Kentucky in 2015. Did I think we'd win 15 conference games? And I think we'd win 15 conference games and not win a league title? The answer would have been, you always have best case, you have worst case, and obviously when you win 23 in a row, that's best case, because that means you've avoided injuries. You've had great depth.

You've had everyday guys. And I mean, you understand the Big 12. You know the Big 12 as well as anybody, if not better. I mean, to break Kansas' record of 22 straight wins and get 23, I mean, that record, who knows how long this one will hold up, because it's hard to win 23 straight games, especially in the Big 12. Oh, well, you know, forget the home court advantage of the talent of the other teams. The coaches are fantastic.

We used to have at Oklahoma State, like, right before the season would start, we would have, coach you call us in and all the assistants be there, and we just kind of talk about, you know, like, what do you think your role is? What do the coaches think your role is? Do you guys have that? Do you have that with these guys? Like, because the thing that was most impressive, and again, this is from a far watching your team, is you got your team knew their roles now granted you allow a lot of your your wings to have

offensive freedom so it's good to but you know um you know you have one guy who doesn't really you don't run you know you don't run any place from mark and yet he played harder than anybody because he knew his role how did you go about establishing roles or did they organically take place by themselves great question and uh uh if it works coaches should always take credit for it correct um Because when it doesn't work, we definitely take the blame for it. But I would tell you, this is really standpoints. One, it was a real, wasn't entitled.

And, I mean, they were always in for one another because they saw how hard each other worked. And then because they were always together, they really liked one another. And then they enjoyed being together. So what happened was we always say player-led teams are better than coach-led teams every day at a week and twice on Sunday. So this was a player-led team that did a great job. When someone was hot, they would feed them the ball. They'd put the ego aside because they really liked one another, and I think cared for one another and respected one another.

So it was easier for them to buy into their roles. And I mean, it was a team that wasn't – we didn't have a lot of seniors, but we had a lot of older guys, and sometimes it's easier for older guys to understand their roles. than somebody who maybe it's their first go around in college and doesn't have that experience. Again, nowadays in college basketball, you know it with the parity each and every night, and one team just shows up with their B game, and they get beaten,

and it's not even close. And we lost some games, but you know what? We always showed up and competed. It's a blessing as a coach. You've also, look, you've had some very, very highly touted guys. The highest-ranked guy you have on this roster was Davy on Mitchell, who went to Auburn, so he's a transfer. he's been around under your program.

He gives him a chance to buy into the culture. I mean, like, look, you didn't have, there's no McDonald's All-Americans on this team. You've had them in the past. So I guess the question becomes, is this a better, the expression is our kind of guys, like, okay, geez, right? Are these more your kind of guy?

Does this stop you from recruiting the Uber elites in Texas and Louisiana, which you have gone after? Or is this simply, or is this an outlier? that you keep going after the big boys and you take who you can get. Because this was not the most highly touted crew. I think the true we think fits our program and who we think our program. And what I mean by that is sometimes you get a guy ranked 20th, and then you get a guy ranked 120th, and you're like the guy 120th,

is going to produce and fit in and be a lot more effective player than the guy ranked 20th. But if you get the guy ranked 20th, everybody thinks it's a better player, better recruit, you're doing a great job. In actuality, really, if you're doing your job, you're bringing in the best for you and your program. So to answer that question, someone ranked number one in the nation and fits what we do, and we think we want guys that are going to want to work. We're going to want guys that are not going to be entitled.

They're going to be coachable, and they want to get better than a great teammates. And it doesn't matter if you're ranked one or you're ranked 200. We want those qualities. and if you have those qualities, then you're going to fit in with us, because at the end of the day, you played on teams that you liked the guys, and you played on teams where you didn't really like the guys.

If you like who's on your team, you've got a much better chance of winning. No question about it. The Kansas win. Look, there's lots of wins you can get in the Big 12, which feel really good, right? You go into Ames and beat Iowa State. It's awesome.

They've got a great home crowd. Anytime you beat Texas and you're at Baylor, you know, Battle of Brazos, whatever. you win those games, those are big. But to beat Kansas at Kansas, especially considering for you personally, like, self has had your number. He's had a lot of people's number. He's had a lot of people. Listen, Eddie Sutton never won in Lawrence, Kansas, ever.

Never won a game in Fogg Allen Fieldhouse. What was that like? What was that experience? For a coach, because you've accomplished everything outside of a Final Four, really, I guess, but in the big 12th term. But, you know, you've beaten it. You've done everything. now from a program that had six players your first year and no non-conference games. But to win at Kansas, what was that like?

I can tell you what was celebration in the locker room afterwards and what the guys had been able to achieve. But what was really telling was I thought throughout the game, our guys never – I mean, we've been up there, close so many times. And what the difference was in this game when in the second half, we were able to make a run. And then we never allowed Kansas to make their patented runs.

I mean, I was sitting at home watching the game thinking, all right, here comes Kansas. And then you guys did what no one does, which is you stepped on them. They had them down east. Everybody else lets them back in. The crowd gets going crazy. There's a 50-50 call that they always get. They make a bunch of free throws, and they find a way to force over.

overtime. Like Bob Huggins, like every year it's on repeat for the poor guy. And you guys didn't let that happen. You've seen some games up there. I like your analysis. Yes. They're all the same. When that crowd gets going, it's hard, it's hard.

Yeah, I don't get it. Like, it's not what, it's not like, and they don't, sometimes they get a lot of calls. They might just get one that's a backbreaker, but you guys never let them ever really think they had a chance. That was the really, that was the really. Okay, let's get to, Kansas did beach at your place. You were going in the Big 12 tournament, and you had lost three out of five. Had people in the league figured out how to guard you?

Well, I think a couple things. One, Kansas at our place, their adjustments were in a close game, you've got to make free throws. That's one thing we did not do. We did not do it. TCU. Against TCU either, right? Yes. And if you're a few.

you're going to win a close game, you have to make free throws. And what I mean make free throws is you've got to shoot around 75, 80 percent. You can't be in the 50s or 60s and win many close games. But I thought Kansas really made some good adjustments, and I thought probably like up at their place. They had some shots that they missed. They did some things that you're like, man, can we miss that? That's a good world.

I know we were really excited about the Big 12 tournament from the standpoint. point, I think we had some adjustments now that we wanted to see how they would adjust our adjustments. Does that make sense? And it's hard coming off a game where you play, you win up there, you're so successful. You're not going to change a lot. Even though they change some of their things, you don't change as much usually when you have a pretty successful win, you know?

And Hall of Fame coach does a tremendous job, and their teams don't beat themselves. So you've got to beat them. And up there you said we didn't allow them to make them. make a run and unfortunately at our place we couldn't we couldn't put together a run at the end of the game either so we'd love to have a third crack at it I thought going into the last five games we were a little banged up everybody's banged up but I thought we had a chance going in the big 12 tournament to be healthier than we'd been in a while and we had a chance to actually have some good competitive practice I thought we had we had an edge about us that we had had

been able to have in a while. So, again, those teams that beat us, they beat us. I think we were excited to play. I think we were getting healthier than we'd been, and we had an edge. You guys are an elite defensive team and an elite defensive rebounding team. What about what had you changed or what had you emphasized this year that really worked with this team because the defensive and defensive rebounding numbers are off the charts great? I mean, right?

We always talk about a ball going through the net, but the numbers are spectacular. Yeah, I think if you look at rebounding numbers for probably the last seven, eight years, especially on the offensively. We've been really good. Defensively, we got better the last couple of years to go along with our offensive numbers, especially in conference play. I believe last year we finished first and first in rebounding or second and first in offense and defensive rebounding.

what was an aggressive man-to-man. And that's when you have Mark Vidal, who's up for a defensive player of the year, Final Four, Davian Mitchell was top ten. And then in Big 12 voting, we had Freddie Gillespie was first team all-defense with Mark and Davian. When you have three guys that can really defend at that level, if the more aggressive type defense and man-to-man defense,

you play benefits your team. and that's what we would fit us best, and we were able to do. And I think, hence, when you can get some turnovers and get in transition, quick as us, it makes your offense even. It's really fed into our offense this year as well. And with the rebounding, that's just something, I think, we pride ourselves in at Baylor, and our guys are really bought into. Yeah, I mean, adjust the defense, Ken Palm fourth in the country,

and obviously your third in the Ken Palm rankings to end the year, You mentioned Bidal. He's just one of those guys who, I don't know, I don't think he's an NBA player, you know, because you've got to be able to, but I wouldn't put it against him just because he's so competitive, right? And he's such an animal, you know, in and around the basket. What was the process like to get him to come to Baylor? He was a pretty heavily recruited player. What was that like?

Well, Mark, somebody we've had a long time relationship with. he had maybe it was his sophomore year i mean first time and a young guys like that couldn't it was in eighth grade he was dunking on people down there and he was one of those guys who was just bigger than a lot of people grew it in earlier age and his athleticism was was known throughout the state of basketball wise and skill wise you're improving get better and he's an elite passer he really passes the ball well he's a win and um from that you never have to want to come up with it very similar to rico gathers if the ball's on the four you just you know he's He's coming down with it nine out of ten times and ten times.

And what Mark does is translates to winning. And I know you mentioned was he an NBA player, and that's the great thing about Mark is each and every year he's been at Baylor. He's improved in some area, and he continues to improve in different areas. And eventually he's somebody that I think will have a chance to play in the NBA because everybody wants a defensive stopper ever. A great team in the NBA.

I mean, a defender and player for Oklahoma. State had some of the intimate Texas. And again, I think Mark continues to get better and improve. And when it's all said and done at Baylor University, he's going to become the all-time I can see that because he really couldn't get all those numbers because we had to get out of campus and everything. So once we're able to get back with the virus, we'll figure out all that stuff. But again, those are things that Mark just brings in.

As you know, like you were at the front of the defense and Davian Mitchell at the front of our defense set the tone. and then Mark was his, and then Freddie protecting the rim, and really everybody else on the team was motivated and improved because of that and really bought into that, and hence you have the fourth best defense in the country. Yeah, it's interesting, though, because so many teams have taken to this really loading up in the basketball. You're not necessarily pressuring the next pass. You guys really pressuring you guys obviously versatility with Mark at the four

and have rim protections a little bit different, but your style was a little bit different and was really, really successful and took teams out of what they want to do, which kind of brings me to the last point, right? Everyone respected your zone, and then you had a couple, it wasn't like you had one zone. You had a couple different zone looks. Now you've shown the versatility several times in your career to be a very good man coach. The consistency of success is there.

You're not doing it with the top five recruits in the country, and you're able to do it at Baylor, you know, a private school that's been through kind of their own issues and other areas of the university. It's really impressive. You've never, like this is the most impressive thing to me. You've never lashed out when people have questioned you and your coaching. Like that, you know, never.

Like you smiled and taken the high road or whatever. How hard is that for you to not do that? Like, where does that, that, I mean, I know that some of that comes from your dad and your faith, but I've literally never heard you be snarky in any way. And you know, that's not my way. I would totally be smart. You have not. How do you do that?

Well, everyone has their own talents and abilities. And I can tell you one thing, though, we're all human, and every one of us would rather be praised than criticized. So does it affect everybody different? Bothers people different. At the end of the day in sports, when you're in the arena, you're open to criticism, and everyone is entitled to their opinion. And I know the biggest thing is always what we say,

control what we can control. And after each game, as a player, coach, I always say the number one thing is start with yourself. What could I have done better? And the day you can't improve yourself is the day you're not going to get better. And obviously the team's not going to get better. So I know after each game, there's things I wish I'd do different because you see they didn't work out.

I think my ability to, and when I say ability to talk to my dad, talk to my dad, talk to and my brother, talk to other people that I trust and support throughout the years. That obviously is help things. I know early on Coach Dale Brown really helped me out a lot because he liked to fight back a little bit more. But it's great when you have people that you can confide in. And then if they agree, yeah, you should have done this and this, this, it makes it easier. And you know their objective and you know they love you. And they care.

They want the best going back to the beginning. and that is I think any player would rather be told how good they are rather than than criticized and every coach is the same way, every human's the same way. So at the end of the day, you know, someone's going to do your job is just to do the best that you can and improve. Over time, things will take care of themselves. One piece of advice you gave to Bryce. He's just taking a new job at Grand Canyon.

Obviously, he did a great job at Valpo and then at Vanney, it started out. and it did not end awesome, and it was like three years. It was bam. It was really quick. You talk about things that you can learn from. Was there anything you offered in terms of advice this time around for Bryce? I think first and foremost was making sure that they always say hire slow and fire fast, and I think hiring your staff as a coach is the most important thing.

And I know he's in the middle of doing that. And then after that it will be a process of, bringing in the players that fit in coaching again. You're only as good as your staff and your players, and you look at it when Darius was, Darius Garland wasn't injured, I think they weren't defeated. And if he doesn't get injured, the most important part, most important piece of any team is your point guard.

When he went out, obviously, it really changed things for them, and Alon went out. No, they built the whole thing around him, right? And the guy's only a freshman, and then they go in the SEC and like, you know,

we can, let me let Bryce re-fight that battle. But it's a hard, okay, here's last one, and then I'll let you go. I know you got to, you got to be the PE coach

for your kids. Okay, you mentioned that any time, when you watch things, everybody can get better. One thing that you personally want to improve on from this year to next.

Um, uh, because there's several things that, that I want to get better at, but I don't know if I need to tell you them all. We'll just keep it by the numbers. I think our assisted turnover ratio can definitely get better, and that will improve our offensive efficiency.

The second thing that can get better is our free-throw shooting down the stretch wasn't near what we were doing. We should have been to 75-80-per-fretel shooting team, and that's got to get fixed or get back to where it should be. And then the third thing with that defensively, we did some different things this year, a lot of different stuff. So as a coach, you never want to throw in too much. You want to – whatever you do, you want to do well. I think with the personnel being somewhat similar,

we'll be able to add some more things to the defense to even make it more effective now because it's kind of like once you put the foundation in, now you can start adding floors and layers to things. And since we don't have a lot of turnover, we'll be able to do that. And that's why most people have top five, depending on what happens or transpires with other teams and our guys. Well, can I offer one outside perspective on a thought? Absolutely. Okay.

So here's my thought. First of all, you never normally ask, you just give it. I do, but it's a podcast, I'll pretend. So instead of sending you a text, hey, I saw this. I just, this is, I think your program. has turned the corner from trying to, because I don't think the common fan, and common fans probably might not listen to this podcast.

There's a lot of hoop guys, right? We got like 100,000 downloads. So some of them, I think the common fan doesn't realize how big winning the league is. And it's big in any league, but in the Big 12, because Kansas has done what they've done, you're so focused on winning the league. But I do think that during your season,

because now you are transitioning from a team that you want to win the league to one that, hey, you got a chance to win the whole thing. It's kind of like a conversation I had with Tony Bennett after the UMBC loss, which is I think you should take different moments during the year to try things, whether it's a different defensive look, different defensive, different offensive, different lineups as well, because what I felt like happening, you guys were so good. You know, you have three or four guys and go get buckets, and then a guy, you know, one or two guys that can get it off the rim.

if they miss. And slowly, like you said, people were adjusting to you, and you had yet to make the adjustment to their adjustment. I almost feel like you throw maybe not artificial adversity towards you, but instead of focusing on winning every game, it doesn't mean you don't want to win the game, but spend time in the first half to throw in a different lineup because, you know, markets in foul trouble at TCU, right?

How can you play left-handed? Because you're going to, when you get to the NCAA tournament, somebody's going to get sick, hurts somebody's getting a foul trouble and you may have some some lineup and you almost instead of trying to prepare to win just the big 12 think about what it's going to take to win six games in March and I would say take a chance at the at the one three one that you'd only taken a look at in practice take a chance at playing the is it mayor the the tall white kid who yeah who's bouncy like look at him at the five and play five out and see what that that looks like like

that's just an idea from my side to, one, I think it will, some of those guys that got set into their roles of being the bench, it'll reinvigorate them. But two, to give you the confidence to, give me confidence to try something, to not be, oh shit, we're in foul trouble, what do we do? No, we know what we're going to do. We're going to switch to this lineup and everybody starts nod in their head. That would be my completely outside, uneducated on what actually goes inside your coach's office. He's pretty educated if you gave it to Tony after the first round loss, and they won a national championship. Well, my, my thing with Tony was, he's like, he, and, you know, he was so down,

he's so down in himself, and he felt like he let the kids down more than anything. And he's like, you know, we didn't have Hunter and the court really shrinks. And I was like, well, had you tried to play small without DeAndre Hunter before? He's like, no, he's like, why would I? I was like, just because, you know, this is. and, you know, he had lineups. And I also thought the blocker mover is great, and it's great to fall back on.

But I said, you know, you need to challenge yourself to some new offensive ideas because you have, you know, different weaponry. And, I mean, like, I didn't tell him to go and run ball screen continuity, but he did. He ran some NBA sets. I mean, look, you guys are all magnificent coaches. And it doesn't mean that any one thing,

I would just suggest that every NCAA term that I've played in something, goes wrong or something goes amiss and teams that are prepared for it or kids that figure it out or a guy steps up and makes shots those are the teams that win because that's just what happened. Great point. Great point.

So you know next year when we do one of those things and we lose a game, don't get on the air and criticize me though, will you? That's okay. Listen, it's okay though if in your mind you're like because you can go in the locker room and you can just tell your guys like, hey look, guys that one's on me. I tried some things.

I screwed it up, knowing in your mind that maybe it's not even on you because you're playing, play the long game. Like, you're not getting fired at Baylor next year. You're going to be good at the end of the year next year. You know, what's it going to take to be great? And maybe what it takes to be great is when you play Kansas in the Big 12 tournament, you show them some, you're able to go to a lineup that they can't adjust to. You know what I mean?

And you're 100% right about that as far as people sick, injured, foul trouble, something's happening. Yeah. Yeah. And the ones that can adjust can adjust. Listen, I marvel at what you've been able to do and how consistently you've been able to do it. You have a lot of fans in my industry and how you've consistently been able at Baylor to do it and do it the right way. I really appreciate your time.

Now go be the most highly paid, highly sought after PE coach in the history of Waco Public Coronavirus schooling. I appreciate that. Just do be a favor. give your son a hug because I saw the handles and the video you sent. We're going to be recruiting him one day, all right? So make sure he knows that too. We'll do it.

We're out. We got PE coming up as well. Thanks so much for doing me. Hey, thanks, Scott. Thank you. Appreciate it, sir. Be sure to catch the live edition of the Doug Gottlieb show weekdays at 3 p.m. Eastern, noon Pacific.

That was awesome to catch out with Coach Drew. A reminder, we have all kinds of guests on the Doug Gottlieb show, weekdays, three to six Eastern, 12th, Three Pacific. You can download the podcast. Like I had Bill Self on for 20 minutes last week. Download that one. Really, really good. Apparently, Bill Self has become the most expensive cleaner of garages in the history of Lawrence, Kansas.

That's the Doug Gottlieb Show podcast. In the meantime, thanks so much for listening. Make sure you download, subscribe, and rate, tell a friend about us, tweet it out. Tell them, hey, this is what really makes Scott Drew tick. I'm Doug Gottlieb, and this is All Ball. Thunderstruck, adjective, shocked and amazed by the power of fun on Carnival. Riding Bolt, the world's first roller coaster at sea. Brian got Thunderstruck so hard, his 93-year-old grandmother felt it 3,000 miles away in Nebraska,

and immediately booked a cruise. Hooray! Get Thunderstruck starting at 289! Carnival! Choose fun! Cruises run U.S. dollars per person, double occupancy, taxes, fees, import, expense, additional restrictions, apply, full details on Carnival.com, ships, registry, behind Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened.

That's where SportsSlice comes in. I'm Timbo, and every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the biggest moments in sports and giving you the real story behind the headline. And we're going straight to the source, the athletes themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions in the moment, and the stuff nobody gets to hear. Listen to Sports Slice on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slica Life 12 and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite on humor me with Robert Smygel and

friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an acapella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me. with Robert Smygel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, guys? This is Clivert Taylor the 4th. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker, this linebacker walks up to me. He goes,

A, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Time out. Quarterback on office, Blue 42. Hey, ref, my mom, I want you to wave. better. What? Hey, Ms. Parker. Listen to the Clippers show on the IHeart Radio app,

Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano. It's our favorite time of the year on our podcast point game, the playoffs. We're digging into the biggest surprises of the season. And I'm looking back on some of my greatest playoff moments.

If we didn't talk ever again, I was crying. You just understood. That's how personal it got. Wow. Then after that game seven, Mark keep coming to, he's like, you know I love you, dog. You know, it's all love. This was just playoffs.

This was just basketball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.