The Herd with Colin Cowherd - All Ball - Cavs Guard Matt Mooney Discusses Improbable NBA Path, College Transfer, Texas Tech Title Game Run, Coach Beard

Episode Date: November 11, 2020

In this episode, Doug sits down with Cleveland Cavaliers Guard Matt Mooney to discuss his improbable path to the NBA from growing up outside of Chicago, bouncing around several colleges before winding up at Texas Tech to play for Chris Beard, his role on the Red Raiders 2018 NCAA tourney championship game run, and what he's working on to survive in the NBA. Make sure you download, rate and subscribe here to get the latest All Ball Podcasts! Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversation. with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok.

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You're going to love this. Matt Mooney is a... We always sitting basketball. We say kid, right? He's a kid from about 45 minutes outside of Chicago. Wakanda, I swear to God. That's what's called. Different spelling.

Wakanda, Chicago. And I went to Notre Dame Prep. And his journey to the NBA to the... Cleveland Cavaliers is nothing short of remarkable. I want you to think about this for a second. He had one scholarship offer at a high school that was to go to the Air Force Academy, but he didn't get to go to Air Force right away and go to their prep school, which is on the campus in Colorado Springs.

I don't want to give away what happened, but crazy story, what happened. Then he goes prep for a year, plays there for a year, and then decides I want to leave Air Force. He goes to the University of South Dakota, place for Craig Smith, who's now the head coach at Utah State, goes to South Dakota, sits out for a year, then tears it up for two years. Then he transfers, again, was close to going to Creight and decide to go to Texas Tech. And at Texas Tech, he had a dream season.

They go to a national championship game. They were tied with the ball out of bounds underneath their own basket with a couple seconds remaining. And obviously they lost in overtime to Virginia. then he goes to the Hawks Summer. I'll let him tell the story. Nonetheless, it's a story of perseverance of hard work, work ethic, and self-belief. There's also a personal side to it with his father. You're going to love this pot. A couple of quick thoughts, basketball-wise. Obviously, college basketball is starting to come together. And it's interesting that we're talking to Matt Mooney, who ended one of Gonzaga's dream seasons. They're the preseason number one. I mean, think about this. It's been 20 years now of Gonzaga dominance in college basketball. But only recently have they made deep runs or deeper runs in the NCAA tournament, Final Four, the national championship game a couple years ago,

which they end up losing by one possession. So now, like Gonzaga has a legit shot to win it, to win the whole thing. And that would be the last thing to accomplish. They dominate their conference, the tournament. They sent one and done to the NBA. They're now a preseason number one team in the country. They've been to a Final Four, been to a national championship game. The only thing left is to actually win that last game on Monday night.

We'll see this year if they can do it. We'll talk more about the teams. Baylor also right there is almost like a co-number-one, fascinating what Scott Drew has been able to do. If you remember, he took over. Dave Bliss was caught on an audio tape, putting the blame on one of his players who was shot dead by one of his other players. I mean, they had recruited guys off campus, no scholarships this first year to building Baylor into being, an elite eight team several times over losing to Duke, a couple questionable calls.

Could this be the year that Scott Drew lives the impossible dream? Gets to a Final Four or maybe wins the national championship at Baylor. That's kind of what's in front of us with college basketball. The rest is a little bit messy, right? We think we're a couple of weeks away from college basketball starting, but the COVID numbers continue to rise. The restrictions get a little bit tighter, and we still don't have true clarity on how many of these events

will absolutely positively go off. There's going to be a season what it looks like. I can't honestly tell you. But the other part that's interesting is here we are a week away from the NBA draft. And how many of these guys can you recall off the top of your head? Now, many of you know that covering college basketball, I'm a huge proponent of the sport, but of the value of the promotion of the sport.

Now think, how many these guys can you actually name? Because you didn't see Anthony Edwards playing the NCAA term. Probably wouldn't have anyway. You didn't see, you name the player and you didn't, the Akoro kid from Auburn will be a top seven pick. Didn't see him play. Not because of anything he did, but because of COVID. It shows the value of the NCAA tournament.

So we'll get to some of that with Matt Mooney. Last thing, boy, the NBA is in a pickle. They're going to start before Christmas, play those Christmas games. And that's great for the Golden State Warriors who also get a little bit of tax relief with some of the CBA rules that have been put down. But what do you do with LeBron James and what do you do? do with the heat, those teams that just got done playing and now have such a limited offseason, my guess is the LeBron's of the world will suddenly take a lot more breaks, not just in December,

in January, into February, and slow roll out how much they play this NBA season. All right, let's get to our discussion with Matt Mooney. All right, let's welcome in. He's Matt, Matt Mooney joins us. I want to get to your life and everything, but it's fascinating. Like, this is what I really want. basketball and I think you're starting to, you probably already know this and you're starting to figure it out,

there's so much connectivity, right? Like it's, it's interesting. Mike Garrity is the, is the player development coach? Is that what his term is? His name is right there? Yeah. Okay. So, Mike Garrity grew up in Orange County.

When he was just a little twerp, he was probably six, seventh grade. My dad used to have a basketball academy workout Sundays at Woodbridge High School in Irvine, California. And there used to be this little kid, and the dad was like, this guy is going to be a player. He wants to be the next Doug Gottlie. Mike Gary wore 44 because I was his guy.

And now he's your developmental coach. And he played USC, stud player, good dude. He's great. Isn't that funny? No, that's, no, it is a small world. I heard that he was out training Mike Brown's son. And then when Mike Brown got the job here, he brought him on. Just because, you know, he liked what he was doing.

But he's really good at what he does. Yeah, it's really amazing. Okay, where in Chicago did you grow up? So I grew up in Wakanda. It's 45 minutes northwest of Chicago. Wait, Wakanda? Wakanda, man. Like, Wakanda forever?

Yeah. Now, that's the joke people make. It's a different spelling. Okay. So it's 45 minutes from Chicago, which direction? Northwest. Okay, so that's like, so that's not like Glenbrook North and all that. That's past that, right?

Past that. Have you been out that way? Yeah, yeah. I mean, I was born in Milwaukee. I spent, I have friends, a lot of friends from, from that part around there in Chicago, whatever, done some work there as well at times. This is awesome. I mean, okay, so your first memory of basketball is where or what, like,

First memory, Wakanda Park District, just playing like in kid. I think I was probably in kindergarten, first grade. My dad was coaching. I know your dad was coaching you growing up. I've listened to your stuff. My brother listens to a lot of your stuff, actually. But my dad was coaching Wakanda Park District, you know, playing on those eight-foot goals. And everybody just runs to the ball type of thing.

And every time you get it, you shoot it. That's probably what I, first memory. Okay. So then as you grew up, were you only a ball guy? Did you play baseball, football, other sports? No, I played other sports, but I loved basketball. And I was small. I was real small.

So like football, I loved football. I liked football, but I was too skinny. So in baseball, I was pretty good at baseball. I liked soccer too, but around fifth grade, I gave everything up. I played football, eighth grade, but fifth grade I gave everything up because, you know, baseball in the summer conflicts with air. at you and I gave it up, you know, and my dad was always trying to think like, all right, what's the best way we can get him a scholarship?

So he was trying to keep me in baseball or other sports because he didn't know, you know. So basketball ended up working out, but I just loved it. I understand. So, okay, so you're like fifth grade, sixth grade, you're little and you're like, dad, this is what I want to do. He wants to do, like this is, by the way, it's like a snapshot of my life. My son's left hand and I'm like, bro, you ain't given up baseball. but he loves he loves who.

Yeah, he loves who, but I don't know, like, I'm, I'm smaller than you, and I don't know if he's going to be even my size. So were you really good? Did you blossom? Like, okay, middle school type age, were you, how good were you? I was good. I was good in middle school. And high school was where, you know, I just didn't hit my gross furt.

And, you know, I was, I was still good, but I wasn't. You remember how big you were when you entered high school? Yeah, it was five, five, five, five, five or five six. Yeah, so here's, so here's my, so I was five feet tall at the end of eighth grade, five feet, 105 pounds. And my dad, the whole year was like, he's staying back because I grew late. He's going to grow late. So I stayed back and I ended up, I stayed in the same school district, but different school,

and then I switched school districts to go to high school. and I entered high school at like five, nine. So 15 months, I grew nine inches, and I was like, and I was during the year I grew so much, I was terrible, and I was okay as a freshman. So you're a freshman, you played JV, freshman team? Like, what were you as a freshman? Well, so I ended up going to high school, like right on the north side of Chicago.

I went kind of far away because my dad was, you know, trying to figure out where to send me because we're trying to get a scholarship, right? So I went to play for Tom Les, Notre Dame High School there on the north side. And I was a basketball school. So it was just, you know, I was going to be a, that was the focus. And, you know, we were going to play against kids in the city, better competition. So he sent me there. And, I mean, we were good.

So I played sophomore as a freshman. And then I played sophomore as a sophomore. And I played varsity as a junior. I didn't really even start my junior year to like halfway. through. So, okay, so in your senior year, how good were you? My senior year, I was good. I mean, we were, we were like top five, top ten in the state in Chicago. You know, it's pretty good. And, you know, I was our best player. We didn't have any other division one guys. We had some talented guys. We had some good players, some other college players. We had really good, like, high school

players. But my senior year, I think my senior year, I average almost 20 a game. You know, It was 25 and 5, something along those lines. But I wasn't an all state or anything. What a EU program? Shaitown Diablos. Who is on that team? You know, nobody that you would know. Chris Galbraith, he ended up going Juko and then went to Sam Houston State.

Josh Doss, one of my team that ended up playing with me at University of South Dakota. We had a little point guard who played Division 2, Ari. We were, you know, we had a dude Gavin Schilling who left our team. He ended up playing at Michigan State, but he went to Mac Urban Fire. Yeah. My coach, Chuck DeMis, he just put together some guys in the city and made a team. And we weren't sponsored or anything like that. So then how did, so then from there you went to, did you go to Air Force prep?

Or did you go to the Air Force right away? I went to prep because I broke my ankle out of high school. So, yeah, I was around for a little while in college. out of high school, right before I was going to go to the, to the academy, I was supposed to just go to the academy. And I was being stupid. I mean, I wasn't being stupid, but I was, I was riding a bike. You're being stupid. What were you doing?

I was being stupid. I was riding a bike. You know, I was trying to get ready for basic training. And I had like a something wrong with my foot. So the doctor told me, just ride a bike to stay in shape. So it's raining outside. And me and my brother, we grab our bikes and we're going for a bike ride. And we get to this trail.

It's like a one mile loop. And, you know, I'm pretty competitive. And I'm like, all right, Joe, you go left. I'm going to go right. We're going to race. First one to get back here wins. So I start going. I'm going way too fast.

We got these really old bikes. They're not very good. We don't bike ever. And I start going down this hill. And, you know, I get to the bottom of the hill. my back tires slips out. I smashed my foot in the ground, break my ankle. So then Air Force was like, all right, you can't do basic training with the busted ankle.

So they sent me to the prep school. Who recruited you to Air Force? Steve Snell and Dave Pilipovovic, Coach Pilipovic. So when they came to your house, was there ever a point where, like, I do not want to be in the Air Force? So I know you want to play hoop, and I've called Games Air Force, like, I actually kind of dig the place. It's beautiful. And like, you want to hoop, you want to hoop. But they're like, hey, by the way, afterwards, you're going to have to be in the Air Force.

Although Air Force is kind of cool. They had a chance of maybe fly a plane. I don't know. No, I never wanted to be in the military. It wasn't like a, you know, I didn't come from a military family. I didn't want to fly a plane. But that was my only division one offer. And, you know, my dream was always Division I.

So I went on a visit. They never came to my house, but I went on the visit. And, you know, I like the facility. facilities. I like the coaching staff. I like Coach P. So I just decided, you know, this is, if this is what I got to do to fulfill my dream of Division I, then I'm going to do it. I'm going to go through the basic training and all the military and all that stuff. And so I took it. And plus they were in the Mountain West, which was a good league and is a good league. It was a really good at the time. Yeah. Not as good. When you left, it was,

that's why the league got bad was you left. Really. That's what that's okay. Okay. So, so, so you you can't do basic, you go and now a sudden you're in Air Force prep. Now, for people who don't know, it's a prep school that's literally on the same campus, right? Like, where do you guys have your own dorms or you're intermingled with regular cadets? Like, what's that existence like? No, I'm surprised you know that much about it. It's, uh, it's on the base and it's like three miles away from the academy. And then we're, I mean, we're in the military. We had to do basic training as well, but they allowed me to do it with the broken leg. And it was hard, man.

It was hard. Well, like the hardest thing, you have to do. Hardest thing I had to do? Yeah. There? Yeah. Well, so I went through three weeks of basic training at the prep to go through that school year. And then, you know, that year was tough.

But, and I only played about half the season because I was still getting healthy. and then the next year I went through basic training again for six weeks but the hardest thing you have to do is you just the thing the thing about air force and like the military and basic training is like you're constantly doing things you don't want to do when you don't want to do them you know you just have no say you just got to do it and you know you're up at 430 in the morning and first thing you're doing you know sirens are going off beating on the door and you're just going for like a 10 mile run and you're doing pushups and you know there was a time there was a the time we literally you're not going to believe this people probably aren't going to believe this but we did 100 my squadron we did 120 pushups in a row without stopping like the form probably wasn't great but i never would have thought i could do that and it's just like you push yourself past your your limits mentally you're a lot stronger than you realize yeah it's more it it's one of those if you can do this there's nothing you can't do right it doesn't i mean it's like look in no way does it compare to what is it said it's a plebe in the army what does it call when you're a freshman at the

air force wow i can't believe i can't think of it right now you can't remember uh oh man it's gonna come to me during this this conversation i know it will okay so um but like oh so when i went to oklahoma state we we decided when my first time running i get there it's like august and august in oklahoma is hot as balls right so we're running and we had we had to run from the weight room to the track, which is like a half mile, like just a jog to warm up. And then we did our sprints and stuff on the track. And then we run back. Right.

And we were running back. Dude, you're just throwing up. And I was like, and I told coach, I was like, hey, man, it is not safe. It's 100 degrees. And you got some big dude. He's like, all right, well, you run at 6 in the morning. We're like, okay. So it kind of became our thing.

And it's like, dude. And the worst part, this is what I'm interested in, right? And I guess, I don't know, they do the bugle or whatever. The worst part is not getting up. It's the fear of not waking up, which wakes you up like at three in the morning, at four in the morning, at four, three in the morning, then at five in the morning and then five, three, oh, shit, now I got to get up, right? So how do you overcome that, the idea?

It's not the oversleeping because everybody gets up and wakes up, but it's the mindset of, oh God, I can't oversleep or then there's going to be hell to pay. How do you overcome it when we're at Air Force? Yes. Well, in basic training, you have no choice. You don't have your phone, so they're banging and sirens are going off. But then in the school year, yeah, if you do not wake up, what they do is they just punish everybody else and they make you stand there and watch.

So you feel terrible about it. I don't know if I ever missed it because I was so afraid. of not waking up. I was already in trouble. They didn't like me from the jump there. So I knew like I can't miss this. And it's crazy like how our bodies work. We just kind of automatically wake up.

But nowadays we got the cell phones and we can set the alarm. So I don't think I ever missed one. What do you remember about playing there? Princeton offense. I hate it. I don't like it. I didn't enjoy the Princeton.

And I like, and I've had Dave, just, you know, I've had Dave on the pod. And I like David. Okay. And so do I. And so, but, and this goes back to, I used to cover Air Force when Desdelic was there. And before him, when, uh, when Chris Mooney was the head coach there, I guess Mooney's my guy. He's been on the pod and he's a Princeton guy. And I just, that's just not my jam.

It's just, it's, it's, it's so, like, I, I've always been, I always think it's funny that guys that run Princeton. Like they can't even function in normal pickup basketball because they're so kind of programmed to elbow chin. If you've been there in a couple years, you can play, you can play basketball, but you struggle to play basketball sometimes. Yeah, and that's the hard thing with the Princeton. I agree with you. I don't want to bash the Princeton or Coach Pete. You know, Coach Pee was a good coach and he had some success over there. But it takes away your instincts. Like basketball, the thing that I love about the game is the creativity, that you can, you know, use your instincts and read and react to it. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged.

It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the money. I'm so great. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show.

This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clivert Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me, or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be.

Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. If you're watching the latest season of the Real Housewives of Atlanta, you already know there's a lot to break down. Georgia accusing Kelly of sleeping with a merry man. They holding Kay Michelle back from fighting Drew.

Pinky has financial issues. I like the bougie style of Housewives show. I think it looks like it's going to be interesting. On the podcast, Reality with the King, I, Carlos King, recap the biggest moments from your favorite reality shows, including the Real Housewives franchise, the drama, the alliances, and the team everybody's talking about. As an executive producer in reality television,

I'm not just watching it. I understand the game. As somebody who creates shows, I'll even say this. At the end of the day, when people are at home, they want entertainment. To hear this and more, listen to Reality with the King on the IHard radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. The story I've told myself about love or relationships can then shape my behavior, and that can lead me to sabotage the possibility of connection. This Mental Health Awareness Month, tune into the podcast deeply well with Debbie Brown and explore the journey of healing, self-discovery, and returning. to yourself. We explore higher consciousness, emotional well-being, and the practices that help you

find clarity, peace, and self-mastery in a world that can feel overwhelming. The world is becoming lonelier. We're not becoming more social and connected. We're becoming more individualized, but we actually meet people in connection. If you've been searching for a soft place to land while doing the work to become whole, this podcast is for you to hear more. Listen to Deeply well with Debbie Brown from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. What the defense does. With the Princeton, it's just already kind of premeditated.

And I didn't enjoy it. You know, and I think there's a way to run it with the guys a little bit more. Doolies, by the way. Dooleys, that's what they call you a duly, right? No, no, it's not a duly. That's what it says. says, uh, is it a duly? Yeah. No. Yeah. Which means like servant. Oh, it's, I need to text one of my guys. I can't believe I can't think about it. It's not a plea.

I'm telling you it's a duly. Anyway. It's not a duly. Huh? It's not a duly. We were cadets, but they call us something else. This Valentine's Day, you know just what to get that special someone, because you know just what makes them tick. So head on over to proflowers.com to get fresh this Valentine's Day and get 15% off through February 14th on gifts for your special someone with promo code Crush 15. See website for details. What grows in the forest?

Trees? Sure. Know what else grows in the forest? Our imagination, our sense of wonder, and our family bonds grow too. Because when we disconnect from this and connect with this, we reconnect with each other. If the forest is closer than you think, find a forest near you and start exploring at Discovertheforest.org. Brought to you by the United States Forest Service and the Ad Council.

Adoption of teens from foster care is a topic not enough people know about and we're here to change that. I'm April Dinwiddy host of the new podcast, Navigating Adoption, presented by Adopt U.S. Kids. Each episode brings you compelling real-life adoption stories told by the families that live them with commentary from experts. Visit Adoptuskids.org slash podcast or subscribe to navigating adoption presented by Adopt U.S. Kids. Brought to you by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services Administration for Children and Families and the Ad Council. Did you play at one or two years? One year. So you're there two years, right?

You're in the Springs for two years. Yeah. What's the decision like to leave? Like, take me through to how, was it hard? did you go see Coach P? Did you text him? Did you go sit down face to face? Like what was taking me through the experience?

Yeah, I don't know. I mean, it was a very tough decision. You know, because here's the thought process of people who get into the academy because so many people try to get in, it's like it's your ticket. If you graduate from there, you know, the saying is you work hard for four years, you have fun for 40. And they say, you know, if you go to another school, school, you have fun for four years and you work hard for 40. That's kind of the mantra.

So like everybody there, it's like, okay, once you get in there, you might hate it there, but it's your ticket because if you graduate, you know, you do your time into Air Force, you're set for life. You're an officer. You're set. Great school, great reputation. You're set. Get any job you want when you're done. And that's kind of, it keeps a lot of guys there who don't want to be there. And I just kind of got that out of my head as like, I don't have to stay here to be for no matter which way I go with hoops or whatever I do. And I didn't know like playing professionally was going to be, you know, an option at the time. But I knew I wanted to see how far I could go with the game of basketball.

Because that was the hard part there too was, you know, you had limited time to focus on hoops. It was military and school was your priorities. But I had to sit down with Coach P before spring break because we get a week off to go home for spring break. I had to sit down with him and just told them, you know, my frustrations, this and that. And, you know, long story short, I just wasn't happy there. And, you know, it was a tough year for me. When it came out, it came out that you had alleged that you were bullied there. Right, right.

Yeah. Yeah, that made things way worse. Because I talked about, I talked to some guy and I just said, you know, bullying and stuff happens here. And it's just part of the system. You know, the upperclassmen, like if you're an underclassman, it's like in the military, you know, it's like you have to listen to somebody who ranks higher than you. So if they tell you to do anything, they want to do anything to you. So it's like, okay, like upper classmen would come in my room. They'd be like, all right, you know, your room's dirty.

And then they just throw my bed on the floor and throw some clothes out on the floor. And then I got to clean it all up to like the proper standards and fold my clothes 10 by 10. And it's like that stuff would happen. And it's just, I mean, I guess it's part of it. But it's, it would happen to me and my roommate more than. I guess, I guess here's the question. I kind of wonder the picture painting, which is you're a very religious guy. Religion is very important to you.

And Air Force is a place where it has always been, it's kind of come out that it's there's a lot of Christian beliefs. And there's a lot of people that are at least alleged to be very religious there. Doesn't that go counter to the idea? idea of throwing somebody stuff all out and and treating them like dirt just because they're a freshman? Well, first, a couple things. One, you know, I don't want to talk bad about Air Force.

It's part of like, you know, it's part of the process and training and making guys tougher mentally and physically. And I think there are some people there who abuse their power. And that happens in any line of work you're in. But also, there's a lot of great people there. So like you're saying, there's Christian and good people. And no matter what they believe, good people. Then the third thing I would just say is like I'm not a you know it's hard to explain

But I wouldn't say I'm a religious person I just I'm more of a relational you know I I'm working on my relationship with God You know religion is following a set of rules and you know you got to do these things Uh checking off the boxes and that but I'm more of a relational person It's a great way to look at it okay so yeah you had it you had a buddy at a teamate at south Dakota right you You're not sure going to transfer. Yeah, he wasn't there yet. Huh? He was not there yet.

Okay, but you're not sure going to transfer, okay? But it wasn't like you killed it at Air Force. No disrespect, right? You played some. You shot well. You guys weren't good. Yep. You're okay.

So how did you get to play at South Dakota? Yeah, they were like the first school to call me. I think them and maybe both. I'm not sure. like one of the first schools to call me and coach hanson was the assistant there it's my guy and you know coach smith had just got there you know i was fortunate enough to play for like two of the best coaches in college basketball smith and beard but anyway smith was there and they uh they were building brand new facilities there it was a little bit closer to home you know both my my family was

in uh chicago area so that was like a seven eight hour drive And the Summit League, there's some school like Indiana and Western Illinois. Chicago State in the Summit League? No, I don't know what league they're in. I UPUI, I think, is, right? They used to be. Owee, Pooey. But, you know, honestly, it just was, it was the coaches.

I visited Colgate. Oh, it was Colgate. It came down to Colgate in South Dakota. And I really like the guys over at Colgate. And, you know, my dad is kind of like my basketball. mentor. He really wanted me to go to Colgate. And so it was really hard for me. I was like, man, I don't really want to go out here. It's a small town out in New York. And, uh, picked South Dakota instead. I just, you know, right, right. But hey, I love South Dakota.

I'm not saying you don't. Like I'm a, okay, so South, New Jersey South Dakota is located where? It's in Vermillion. It's like an hour south of Sioux Falls. Okay. How many people in Vermillion? Roughly. 20,000. How many people? But that's the thing. Colgate was even smaller. Colgate was like 3,000 people. No, I know all those schools in the Patriot League are like that. Great schools, a ton of fun on campus, nothing to do outside of that.

South Dakota, how many people, how many people, how many students? 10,000. Okay. It just came down to, look, I love the coaches at Colgate and I love the guys in South Dakota, but yeah, he is good. He's good. He was a good player, too. And I think that would have been a good fit for me, too.

But I just, I really like Coach Hanson and Coach Smith. And I felt like they were building something there. So I decided on that. I want to do something. I don't know. Normally I do this. I like to do it in chronological order, but I want to stop for one second. And I want you to think about something.

Okay. Okay. You leave Air Force. You're sitting out at South Dakota. If I would have told you at that moment that you would be a member of the Cleveland Cavaliers in the NBA, what percentage of you would have been? I don't know, man.

I always, that's why, I mean, I wouldn't have believed you. I wouldn't have believed you. But I always had a little bit of belief. You might have somewhat, but people around you had been like. No, it was something I could never say, but it was something internally I felt like, man, I can get there. I can get this. I just need a shot. I need to keep getting better.

But I felt like I can get there one day. But it was, I knew it was a small possibility. Like if I was going to get there, it was going to have to be, you know, take everything I had in me. And, you know, I'm going to have to catch some breaks along the way. So you sit out in South Dakota. Okay. And you transfer. What was that year like for you?

Like this is another year sitting out, another year not hooping. What were you just in the gym all the time? Was it tough for you mentally? What was that year like? Yeah, that's where that was a tough year. For me, just I had some things going on. with my family and then not being, I tried to get a waiver, didn't get the waiver. So then when that news came in, and, you know, I was just trying to find my way.

I was like, man, I had an injury and played one year and I had to sit out. And so I just was in the gym all the time. And me and Coach Hansen and Coach G, and I would be in there in the morning before class and practice and I go back at night. And pretty much every day. And, you know, we just focused on pretty much three things. We focused on shots off the move, you know, one or two dribble pull-ups, and shots off the catch. Like, that's all I drilled, just really trying to get good at those things.

And, you know, it was a long year for sure, but it was looking back, it might have been the most important year of my college just because I got to really improve on my game for that year. So now all of a sudden you're like you have the gift of having played some division one basketball. You're a little bit older. Your body's kind of filled out and mature. And you had a year of working just on your game with those coaches. Now what was that first year like playing at South Dakota? It was hard getting into it. The first half of the season was not very good.

I was our leading score, but I was inefficient. And, you know, at South Dakota, now I play primarily point guard over there. I was playing the two. And, you know, I was, I was really struggling. I remember halfway through the season, I sat down with Coach Smith, and we had a talk. And I was like, coach, just, just give me that green light. I'm not going to let you down. Just give me that green light.

Just because I didn't feel it from him. And, you know, I wasn't playing very well. We were solid. But, you know, he's like, all right, I'll give you that green light. But if you mess up, then, you know, I got to. go with somebody else type of thing. And he gave me the green light and ran more plays for me and gave me that confidence. And the second half of the season, I, you know, played unbelievable.

Not unbelievable. I played well. And we won the league. And, you know, we had a really good season. We won our league, but we lost on a buzzer beater in the conference tournament. You know how it is with the mid-major. It's brutal. And what do you mean?

I'm looking at the stats. I'm just, you know, I'm looking at the stats of that game. What do you remember? which game the n i t game no the the end of season game the one that ended your the one that ended ended ended that year in the conference tournament well i remember i played pretty well i mean i was um i think i had 30 or so and i had a shot what happened was i had a shot in the corner with like 20 seconds left to put us up by three and i thought that was it you know it was a tough shot i thought like okay where you going

And then Mike Dom, I don't know if you remember Mike Dom, you probably do. Dominated. Yeah. Yeah, really good college player. He came down and a big guy followed him. He went, like we followed him right away. He went to the Freeto line, made both. So now we're up one.

And then they filed one of our guys, a freshman who was a really solid player, but he goes to the line and missed a one-on-one. So now we're up one and they had this dude, this point guard. We knew they were trying to get the ball of the dom. so we were, you know, trying to not let him get in. The point guard just pulled up and hit the shot at, you know, with point nine seconds left. And that was it. And that was really hard to deal with.

Because like my dream was Division I, but my dream was NCAA tournament. I mean, I skipped school to watch the NCAA tournament. Right. When I was a kid. Yes. So. And then, okay. So I think, think about that heartbreak.

And then like, I'm sure at the time, you're like, I'm never, this is not going to happen for me. You fast forward two years later and you're in the final four, right? Like that's, it is like your path is so interesting. Okay, so you have a second year. Next year you play in the CBI. Yeah. Yeah.

You get done. Coach Smith is going to leave to Utah State, right? Did you know you were going to, you were going to grad transfer at that point? And at that point, you're like, I'm playing really well. I can grad transfer. When did it happen that you, I want a grad transfer and go somewhere bigger? So obviously that was on my mind, but I think I was going to stay with Smith. You know, we, because we didn't get to the tournament, I love my teammates there.

I love the university. But I was getting a little bit older. You know, I was getting almost 23, I think. I'm trying to remember that year. But it was like, all right, do I stay here at South Dakota? try to get to the tournament, finish what we started, or do I go somewhere bigger, take a chance on myself, try to get some exposure.

But the risk there is you go somewhere bigger and you don't play well, now I got nothing. Right. You know, if I... Plus you have, what they don't tell, what people don't realize is, like, if you state a South Dakota, okay, you didn't make the tournament, you, you're a legend there.

You could coach there, you could broadcast, you live there, you do whatever. Dudes that transfer that second time, you kind of, if it doesn't work out, like for you, it worked out great. But for most people, you're kind of a man without a home. You know, you don't have, you're not getting invited back to alumni games when you played, when you were at school for nine months. You know what I mean? Yeah, no, you hit it on the head. And that's something I thought about a lot. It's like, I don't have a legacy anywhere, you know, I don't have a legacy. I don't have

somewhere I can come back to. And like, I love South Dakota. I was like, man, I probably won't be able to come back here anymore if I leave. But, you know, I talked about, you know, my faith is really important to me and my relationship with God. And it's something I prayed a lot about. And sometimes, you know, for most people call it that gut feeling, you know, I believe it's the Holy Spirit. And I just felt like I had to go. And once Smith got the job at Utah State, I kind of knew was like, all right, I probably

got to, you know, go somewhere else and try to play against the best competition and see how I stack up. Why? I know there was a bunch of schools. Why tech? Coach Beard. You know, pretty simple. Northwestern, I like those guys a lot and those close to home.

My family wanted me to go there. It was tough. Creighton, I thought their style of play was good for me. But, you know, I think something that has really helped me is being uncomfortable and putting myself in uncomfortable positions. And, you know, going close to home, that was comfortable, going to Creighton, similar system, close to South Dakota. Like it was two hours from South Dakota, so I still be by my friends.

But Texas Tech, like, and I remember I went to Texas Tech, and I played pickup down there, and I didn't play very good. The other places I know the story about that. Huh? They told me the story, by the way. Would they say I play bad or what? Yeah. They're like, eh.

Yeah. He was better. He was better. They were like, man, we loved him on tape. And then he was down and he was like, yeah. I love him. And Beer was like, yeah, he's tougher than shit. He's my kind of guy.

He's my kind of. player and and the other guys and staff are like yeah don't know if he's athletic enough to play at this level yeah they still i mean i still don't know if i'm athletic enough but they um that's that's right i never heard that story that's funny i didn't play very good down there i wanted to play pickup just to see how they play the style of play in the system and you know those guys guard uh and they were guarding in pickup and it was different uh but at the of the day I went down there because I knew I was going to get better. Like the resources they have, the player development, the GAs, the coaches, like, I knew they were going to win. And, you know,

there was other schools recruiting me that have kind of fell up, that had fallen off. And I won't say which school in particular, but I remember, you know, one of the schools had gone to the tournament, then they didn't go to the tournament. And they kind of had excuses for it. And they brought their whole team back, you know, and my brother was just like, my older brother, Dan, he was just like, Matt, Beard would never let that happen. He's like, he's going to find a way to win. And Tech lost like most of their guys, you know, we weren't projected to be very good. I know. Guys, you can, you guys unbelievable. I mean, he's literally unbelievable. Yeah, he is. He's different. Okay, so what's like to play Duke?

Because, because I want to get to the fondful, I want to get to the NBA, but for all of us like you, and me grew up watching the NCAA tournament. Now you're playing Duke, neutral side game, you know, playing for tech. And I know you didn't play all that well. No, not at all. But like, what's that feeling like?

Holy shit, what I'm about to play Duke? Yeah, no, Duke is like the, I don't know, it's like, they're the team everybody wants to play. Yeah, the Yankees, whatever, the Bulls in the 90s. They're the top dogs. They're the team. You see on TV.

and it's just like they got legends that come out of their coach k so like the hype was crazy we were undefeated i think they were number two uh in the garden so it was electric in there i think it was sold out too i don't i don't know i mean other than the final four i mean there's some really good atmospheres in the big 12 but that was uh something it was a really good experience i wish i could have that one back So we all do. You know, we we should have had that game. Yeah. Okay.

Then you go on this magical run in the, in the NCAA tournament. And you go all the way to the final four. But like so much if it's a blur, right? Like you crushed Michigan State. Like that was, but I mean, you hit all those, you hit a bunch of threes against Gonzaga. And you guys, I mean, really, sliced and dice Gonzaga. when you close your eyes and you think back, but our memories are different as fans.

What do you remember? Yeah, I remember the Gonzaga game in Michigan State, you know, the last three. You know, the Virginia one, obviously, I don't want to remember that, but, you know, you got to move on. But it's possible not to, right? Like you remember the losses more than the wins. Right.

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Listen to deeply well with Debbie Brown from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. I remember the Gonzaga game, man. Gonzaga was really good. And that was like to there. I was in training camp with Memphis with Brandon Clark. And that was their year. They thought that was their year. They were, they were stacked. And I just remember we played out of our minds. I mean, we played really well, like as a team. And I just remember, I remember one play where I got a steal and I threw it

way and they dunked it. I remember the play late where, you know, the Perkins Morrow dribbled off his foot, Moretti, and then they hit the three and I was like, oh, no, man. Like, here we go. This is what you see on TV every year. But that was a lot of fun. That was probably one of my most fun games. It was a complete game for myself, for the team. And in Michigan State, you can't really explain the Final Four to people, unless, I mean, people have been there, but like playing in it is hard to explain because it's just so different than any other time I've ever played, you know, 80,000 people, 70,000, whatever it was, instead of 15, you know, even 15 is nuts, it's sold out 15,000, but 70,000, it's hard to explain how cool that is.

What happened in the timeout? That's what I wanted to know. I said, I've not, what happened to the timeout? You guys got the ball underneath your own basket and confusion and then you guys got to, huh? Which game? Virginia. Virginia. At the end, tie games? Yes. Yes. What happened in the timeout, we were, you know, we wanted to get the ball to Jared.

You know, there was discussions of maybe making him a decoy and trying to do something else, but it happens so quick and you don't have much time. And, you know, we just ended up with drawing up some type of play to get him the ball and get a shot off and end up getting blocked. You know, hindsight, it would have been, you know, I wish we would have. We could have got a better look there, but they're a really good defensive team, and who knows what we would have gotten.

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I remember my last game. And I just remember looking around the last. locker room because I was I just assumed we were going to cut down my my mentality was a lot like yours where I just assume we're going to win we're going to cut down the nets we're going to go to final four like you just don't like losing doesn't even come into the equation when you wake up that morning and then you look around you're like man I I fucking love these dudes like they're my guys I can't believe I never get to play basketball with them again it's different though when you only done it for a year do you remember what that was like in the locker room afterwards

devastation man I mean you're talking like you got the elite eight like you're almost there the national championship. I know. You're like right there. With the ball underneath your basket tie game in regulation. So it's tough. You know, the only way I can really get past it is I can just focus on the positives and what I'm grateful for and like that we got that far.

I could have gone to another school. We wouldn't even went to the tournament, you know, and I got to experience that and make it all the way there. But, you know, personally, I have a lot of regret. Like, I wish I would have been more aggressive. And I still have dreams about it, man. I have dreams and I wake up and I'm like, man, I have dreams that I make the game when he shot.

And I'm just like, man, I wish I would have been more aggressive and more assertive earlier in that game because it's like it's just another game, but it's not just another game. I know, I know. I would love to tell you that that goes away. Okay? It doesn't go away. It's all right, man. The sun rises and it does.

Totally. Okay, so you get done, okay? And your thought process by now it's like, okay, now I can, I know I can make the league, but it's harder than just that. Summer League was with who? Atlanta. Okay, the draft comes and goes, you don't get picked. Did you watch the draft?

I watched the draft because I had some good draft workouts and, you know, I got a really good agent, Chris Emmons, and I got a bunch of draft workouts. And obviously, I don't get those workouts if we don't go to the final four. and we don't get that exposure. And if I don't play well in that Michigan State game, I probably don't get that many workouts. So I watched the draft because there was possibility. Maybe I get picked second round, later second round.

You getting mad watching? I know it was a long shot. No, no, not at all. I know it was a long shot. But my agent was like, hey, there's a couple teams that are considering you. And the draft comes and goes, and I get the call. And it's like, hey, you want to go to Atlanta for Summer League? we got to decide in like a minute because they're trying to fill.

Atlanta's trying to fill their roster, the Summer League teams. So I said, if you think that's what we do, then we do it and we went to Atlanta. What was that like? Well, you know, every step of the way for me, it's just pressure. You know, you got to perform. And because if I feel if I don't perform, then that's like it's probably over, you know, limited opportunities. But I got to play 20 minutes a game with Atlanta in Summer League. And I played okay.

but I realized, like, I got to develop as a point guard. In college, I was like a combo. At Summer League, I was like, I really got to hone in on my point guard skills. And if I'm going to play in the league, I've got to be a point guard, probably. 6-3, white guy, not the most athletic. I'd be tough, point guard, make the right reads. But also, you know, make some plays here and there. Like, not just, you know, that's the thing.

Kirk Heinrich actually lives in South Dakota. And I would be working out with him sometimes. He's, and I grew up watching him with the Bulls. He was a great player, a really good player, playing in the league for a while. And I remember him telling me like, hey, because at first I was like, all right, I just got to be solid. You look at like white cards that played in the league, and they were just super tough, gritty, solid guys, make open shots, make their free throws, make their teammates better, type of thing. And I remember, you know, I'm trying to do that, but Kirk's like, look, you still got it. When you get in there, you got a show like that you can hoop.

too. You got to still be aggressive. And, you know, because otherwise you're just out there. So, you know, he really, you know, he was in my ear and helped me out with some things, too. Okay. So then what, and then Memphis for training camp. Okay. Yeah. What was that like? Great experience. I love, I love Memphis, the staff and everybody there. You know, the first time being in the NBA facility and being around NBA,

guys and playing. And, you know, that was kind of like John Morant was there and, you know, he's young and super talented. And I was like, you know, I saw it firsthand like how good that guy was going to be. So I'm competing with all these guys. And that was the first time, like, that gave me a lot of confidence playing with those guys and knowing that I'm, you know, I was playing well. We played pickup. I'd be playing well. That gave me a lot of confidence. But it's like, once you get to the NBA level, you got to remind yourself, you can't defer, you know, you got to remind, like I had to constantly remind yourself, I belong here, you know, go out there, be aggressive, be a killer, you know, that type of thing. You talked about your relationship with God. It's not, it's not, like from a book, it's not true

religion. It's more kind of your relationship and spirituality to it. How does that help you? Because it's not easy, right? Like you're going place and you think you play well, and then now you're off to the G League. and you're with new guys and your confidence is tested. Like how does that play a part in what you've been able to do in terms sustaining kind of your will? Yeah, great question. I'm really glad you asked me that. You know, I found I was in college at South Dakota.

I was searching for answers, you know. I grew up Catholic, but I was just like, is this, you know, because everybody grows up believe in different things. So like, am I right because I grew up this way and they grew up that way and what they believe that they're right, you know, somebody grows up across the country or across the world, everybody believes different things. So I just started searching for truth. And, you know, I found that that Jesus was the truth.

You know, son of God rose from the dead. And so then I started just looking at what he said and how he lived and he showed us how to live. And, you know, I started developing my relationship with God. I realized it wasn't about, you know, rules and traditions, but more about, you know, just having my heart being posture towards him like do I love others the way he loves me sort of that's what it all comes down to the bible it all comes down to love love others as yourself right but you know with with the game of basketball and halfway through the season I told you that one year in south Dakota my game kind of took off what I didn't tell you is you know my my relationship with god kind of took off and I realized like

I talk a lot about pressure you know there's constant pressure with the line of work I'm in and you know you've lived it, played at a really high level. And a lot of guys struggle dealing with that. And I struggled dealing with it for a long time. And if I played bad, I felt like this big, you know. I felt like I was worthless in a way. And that's not what God tells us. You know, he tells us our worth is based on, you know,

how we treat other people. So what I'm getting at is my relationship with God, it made me realize if I play poorly or if I play great, God's love for me doesn't change. And then my game took off because I just had this peace in me. And like I knew no matter how I played his love for me wasn't going to change. You know, I still had salvation through Jesus. And I just started killing. It wasn't because I was, you know, a lot of people banked that prayer like, Lord, help me play my best.

And that was me. I do that. I still do that. But it's like he doesn't really care how we play. It cares how we treat other people. But I just, I had this piece inside me once my relationship with him. And I started playing way better. You're in Canton, right?

And where were you when you got the call that you get to go play for the cabs? I was in Memphis, actually. I was in Memphis. I was walking to, because I was with the G-League team in Memphis. And we get tickets to the Grizzlies games. It was a Grizzlies' game. I remember it like it was yesterday. and I get called to a call by my agent.

I'm on the side of the street and he calls and the first thing he says is this. He says, hey, Matt, I regret to inform you. You're no longer with a Memphis hustle. So I'm just like, I'm like, okay. He's like, pack your bags. You're going to Cleveland. You got a two-way contract with the cast. So like, you know, that feeling we talked about earlier where I always felt like I could play in the league,

but I knew it was going to be tough. And I didn't know, like, it was ever going to happen, but I believed it could. You know, it was happening. And, you know, I sat there on the curb and I just, you know, I thank God. And the first person I called was my dad. And not to put a damper on the mood at all, but my dad's, you know, currently only got a couple months to live. You know, he's got, he's got disease in his brain and only giving him a couple months left. And, but I say that because, you know, before my dad, before I got that call for my agent, I got a call for my dad.

And my dad has lived in Cleveland for about five years now. So he's been in Cleveland. Wow. And he called me about an hour before that, and he said, you know, he got bad news from the doctor. His cancer was spread. Okay. Well, an hour later, I got a call for my agent telling me I was going to Cleveland. And so I called him and he just said, you know, you just,

One of the worst days in my life, it just became one of the best. And it's given me a lot of time to be with him. And he was at the first game and it was really cool to have him there. So that was the moment. Then I called my brother, my mom, and people who have helped me get to this point, you know, back home, my coaches and stuff. That's why it's special because so many people have helped me get here, right? Nobody does it alone. So you share it with them, you know.

I got two more things. I'm tight on time. I apologize because it's all good. The first game you played was against the Knicks. Yeah. What was the shot you hit? Floater. I mean, I don't shoot that shot a whole lot.

But pump fake, right foot, right floater looked kind of awkward. But it just, it went down and felt pretty good. That's my only bucket to this point because I only played a couple games. So that leads me into my second question. to the to the six foot two to five eleven white dudes out there that everybody's like you ain't got no shot dude you can go and pay your check and play an AU team may play in college you're a guy that i'm sure people are like you're not playing like right one scholarship offer to the air force at a high school you don't even go to the air force you go to their prep then you play when you're there then

the south dakota then the tech okay then you've scratched and clawed and you've made it. You have whatever you do the rest of your life, you have done what only 450 people get to do a year out of 8 billion people on earth. How do you persevere through the hard times? Yeah, good question. I don't think I've made it. You know, I put on that jersey, but I'm still constantly pursuing, you know, make a career out of it and be better every day. But how do you persevere through the hard times? For me, it was my fate, you know. And for those 5-11 to 6-2 guys or those guys who are underrated. It's just chase your dreams, man.

Like everybody's going to tell you what you can and can't do or what you should do. Do what you love and go after it as hard as you can go after it. And if you don't make it, you don't make it. But you got to go for it. And that's how I felt. And that's why I made the decisions I made. And, you know, here I am. And hopefully I'll keep on going.

Hey, man. This is an awesome talk. I'm so sorry to hear about your dad struggles. But I got to run. and I really appreciate it. Yeah, no, I really enjoyed it, Doug. It's good to talk you, man. Thanks, man.

All right. All right. Quick reminder, the Doug Gottlieb show is daily, daily, on Fox SportsRadio.com. You can stream us anywhere you go. You can download the podcast as well. And you can listen to us live, 3 to 6 Eastern, 12 to 3 Pacific, Fox Sports Radio.com, stream the show. We got great interviews, football, baseball, basketball as well.

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