The Herd with Colin Cowherd - All Ball - College Thoughts; LaMelo Injury Update; LeBron MVP; Legendary Defender Tony Allen on Grindin', '08 Celtics; Kobe Respect

Episode Date: December 12, 2019

This week, Gottlieb discusses what looks like is shaping up to be a year of parity in college basketball a wide open college basketball season, LaMelo Ball missing time in Australia with a foot injury, and why LeBron is the clear cut frontrunner for MVP. This week's guest is 3×NBA All-Defensive First Team, and NBA Champion Tony Allen on how he defied the odds to make it from Chicago to becoming one of the most respected defenders in NBA history, growing up with Will Bynum, learning the NBA ropes from Paul Pierce, how a knee injury made him shift his focus to being an elite defender, the '08 title team and what it means to him to earn Kobe's respect. Make sure you download, rate and subscribe here to get the latest All Ball Podcasts! Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel. Help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter.

Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, guys? This is Clivert Taylor the Fourth. And on my podcast, The Cliverts show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker, this linebacker walks up to me. He goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her.

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Wow. Then after that game seven, Mark keep coming until he's like, you know I love you, dog. You know, it's all love. This was just playoffs. This was just basketball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app,

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It sure kept me from thinking about all those penalty balls. Yay, sports! Progressive casualty insurance company and affiliates price and coverage match limited by state law. Hey, welcome in. Doug Gottlieb. You boy here. It's All Ball, the All Basketball podcast all the time. And we should point out, we appreciate you, download it. subscribing and rating. Tell a friend about this.

The grind father, Tony Allen, is our guest this week. It's a long interview, so I'm not going to bother you or bore you with a bunch of other stuff. I do have one personal or two personal stories I'd share with you before we get to Tony's kind of personal story and how he came to be. It's fascinating how guys become NBA players and really, I do think he's kind of a legendary player. When I say legendary, it's not like Larry Bird. But you'll remember Tony Alan for as long as you watch basketball. He had a great, great talent. Offensively and defensively in college,

then more defensively in the pros. Wait to hear how he became a great NBA caliber defender. By the way, you can also listen to the Doug Gottlieb show. Weekdays, 3 to 6 Eastern, 123 Pacific, the iHeartRadio app, Fox Sports Radio, Foxportreta.com, or you can download the podcast, wherever you downloaded this podcast. Feel free.

Knock yourself out. The numbers obviously help your boy get paid. so that's pretty cool. I could go into a bunch of detail about some college teams and what they're missing. Louisville obviously looks like they're missing a point guard, although waiting on a freshman to develop as a point guard is tricky. And I don't think Fresh Kimball appears to be the athlete that he was before injury or maybe even athletic enough to play huge minutes at this level.

But I'm not totally sure that you shouldn't go with Fresh Kimball because of He's just a vet. He's always had a calming sense about him. And though he didn't play well for them in the preseason, that might be your best option. In many ways, that's what's limiting Louisville. They were my number one team in the country. They got beat by Texas Tech.

Hey, shocker Chris Beard can coach. And his team that had come so close in some of those games that they had lost finally pull off the upset in New York City. I still think Texas Tech's got a chance to compete for and maybe win the Big 12. A league that feels like Kansas still and everybody else, although Baylor looks great. Obviously, huge win over Butler. And by the way, I'm not really discouraged about Butler being a top 10 team,

losing by a point in Wakeout, especially after the performance at home and against other big 10 teams, really, the previous week. Do we have a year of parity? We do. But we're going to take some time in the next couple weeks of going through each of these teams and some of these players and what it all means. Let me give you my quick mellow ball. update.

There's some discussion he's hurt now. It's his foot. He's not going to play for four to six weeks in Australia. Some people think he won't come back and play at all. Let me give you a little sense of why I think it'd be a mistake for Mellow Ball to not play anymore. He played well at times. And look, he showed to have an incredible amount of skill, got great court awareness. Like, the kids got talent and size for days.

but he still doesn't play hard defensively. And that's one of the reasons his team. Like I've heard this, he shouldn't come back. His team's not winning. Like, look, if you're drafting the NBA, you're going to be, high, you're going to be drafted for a bad team. Will you, are you just going to shut it down because your team's not good? That's not what I want for my franchise player, for my point guard.

Not at all. So show me some toughness in that sense. Show me some physical toughness in fighting back from a foot injury. And then, look, he's got to shoot the ball better. But shooting terror. Now, one of the reasons he shoots terrible percentages, he takes bad shots. But he shoots a 37 and 25 at last check from two and from three. That's not.

And so what are the questions about his older brother? Lanzo ball's always hurt. Now Lamello's hurt. Lanzo ball can't shoot. Lamello can't shoot. Lanzo ball has, is actually a terrific. defender and made himself in a terrific athlete. Blamello is bigger,

is taller, but not, and very young, not to this point, the athlete and not any sort of defender. Wants no part of any contact. So if I was advising him, I'd say to, you want to rehab as long as you want, you want to come back and play this year. Show that you can finish, show that you can help the team win at the end of the season, and change your body, continue to improve your shooting.

I don't think any of this is profound. We gave you a little college. I give you a little mellow. Now, let me give you a little pro. I know that Anthony Davis put up 50 the other night. I know he's a supreme talent. But LeBron James is the MVP of that team and the MVP of the league. What he's doing to get everyone involved,

how he's playing defensively at times conserving energy but playing center field to where he extends mental energy is amazing. Now, look, part of the. success of the Lakers is because of his will and his leadership, which means to me, you got to hold him accountable for last year because he didn't exert this type of leadership. He just didn't. The thing went awry and he was part of it. So I'll give him the credit for this year. I got to give him a substantial amount of the blame for last year. So look, LeBron's the MVP, okay? He's behind the scenes, you know, in front of the scenes. No one ever says in front of the scenes. No one ever says in front of

scenes. You ever notice that? He's leading. He's helping, he's fostering a relationship with Anthony Davis. He's making him feel important. He's letting him take the big shots. He's allowing Alex Caruso to become a huge part of what they do, championing Caruso's development, which allows LeBron to take a little bit of a break defensively. All these things are good. I'm just going to point out last year when things went bad, he came back. They were losing to the Memphis. Last night, a blown call changed the game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in.

I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise. Breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context and ask the questions everybody wants answered.

Sports Slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to Sports Slice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slic Life 12 and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations. with so many incredible guests. I'm talking. Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark.

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What's up, guys? This is Clivert Taylor the Fourth. And on my podcast, The Cliverts show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker walks up to me, he goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Time out. Quarterback on office blue of 42.

Hey, ref, my mama want you to wave at her. What? Hey, Ms. Parker. Listen to the Cliverts show on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. What's up, fam, Ms. Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano, and our podcast Point Game is about Define the Od. Like LeBron heading into the playoffs without Luca and Austin Reed. And finding ways to win no matter what.

He's the smartest player to ever play the game. His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before. And he knows without Luca and Austin Reeves, I got to manipulate the game. We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the playoffs. I think Joker's going to be exhausted this series because when they don't have Rudy in the lineup, he has to really guard guys like Nas Reid.

He has to guard Julius Randall. And then he has to give us everything. everything he gives us on the night-to-night basis on offense. And when IT's friends stop by, like Quentin Richardson, we dive into some playoff history too. Steve Nass would get that thing. That man, hell get the flying. He running up the court, licking his fingers why he got the ball.

Like, after you go through a training camp with that, Isaiah, you figure it out real quick. Get your ass up and down the court, and you're going to get the ball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The phoises of the world, the phoenixes of the world, the bottom of the league they lost to. So we can blame the guys that are gone and say they're not winning players, and that wouldn't be a, that wouldn't be a lie. But you can't tell me that he's the greatest leader ever this year and not point out to, where was that leadership last year?

All that said, at this point at the quarter poll, there's your league MVP. I don't think it's particularly close. And that's not a knock on Anthony Davis, but Anthony Davis would probably tell you the same. it is a knock on some of the other stars around the league, even a Janus, because as talented as Janus is. And at this point, his skill is above that or his ability to make plays in most regular season NBA games is above that of LeBron James.

That's the nature of age. The fact is that Janus does lead, but not the way he doesn't have as much on his shoulders, much on his plate as LeBron. And LeBron's team is exceeding anybody's reasonable expectations this point in the year. There's your league MVP. If you love to be remembered as the person who gives the best birthday gifts,

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Brought to you by the United States Forest Service and the ad council. All right, I want to get to this interview with Tony Allen, and it's fascinating. You know, we all have just very different paths to getting where we got to. In our interview, he's like, look, I didn't play basketball

was just about being the best player in the court out in front of my housing projects. I grew up, obviously, very differently. When I was six years old, we moved to the city of Orange in Orange County, California. And my first game was at Orange, Orange Olive Middle School.

I played the first NJB game ever at Anaheim High School. It's fourth and fifth grade. I was in third. And I scored, I think, 19 out of our 21 points. And when I started playing pickup basketball, it was at Miles Square Park. My dad would take me down there to get me in the 7 a.m. game. And he would have to call the game and hold on the game,

help me get four of the players in order to get on the court. I was fine. It was probably like 11, 12 years old when I first started playing now. there. And I played travel basketball. I was a fourth grader on my brother's eighth grade team and I would just get in there and survive. So my upbringing very different than Tony's. And I find it fascinating. And I had a year where I was a complete F up in terms of school. Actually, many years where I wasn't doing nearly as well as I could have in school. The difference was my dad and mom obviously were married up until the day my dad died and we didn't have any excuses about grades or missing class or anything.

It just wasn't. And I don't remember my dad ever sitting down with me and doing homework. I just like, you're going to get good grades and you're going to figure it out. When I got in trouble in school, my dad was there for me. My parents were there for me. They did support me. They helped me get back on the straight and arrow. Wait to you hear Tony's entire path and just how he,

managed to figure it all out. And it took them a long time to figure it all out. But when you think now, you think Tony Allen, great defender, NBA champion, member the Celtics, member of the Grizzlies, kind of the face of the grit and grind generation of the Memphis Grizzlies. Like Conley was a point guard. Markisaw was the big man. But Tony Allen and maybe Zibo, that was.

was the heart and soul of grit and grind. So without further ado, for our first team, all defensive team in the NBA, Tony on. Be sure to catch the live edition of the Doug Gottlieb show weekdays at 3 p.m. Eastern, noon Pacific on Fox Sports Radio

and the IHeart Radio app. All right, let's welcome him in. He's known as the grind father. Kobe Bryant has said he's the toughest defender that ever guard him in the NBA. And of course, dude's been all defensive team. And now,

and now he's an old head. Right? Now he's Former first round pick The Boston Celtics For a big 12 conference player of the year He's Tony Allen He joins us in the All Ball podcast

Okay so I want to start the very, very start Yes indeed Okay Because Anthony Davis is like Yo Chicago's got the best ball players And then and when I heard it Obviously he was playing in Chicago

And everybody thinks their home area is the best Yeah yeah Okay so your first memories of hoop is when and where? I, off the real, first, first, first, first hooping. Let's see. I got to go back. I got to go back.

And rest of peace, my grandmother, Hilda, Jeryl. It's crazy. She used to tell me this story as I got older, and I understood it. But she said that when I was like two or three years, maybe three, I think, she said two or three. She was like, I told her I was going to the NBA. My granddaddy, rest of peace, sonny. He watched basketball all day because I guess he bet on the game. Right.

You know what I mean? Yeah. And we all grew up in my grandmother's house. She had nine kids, I mean, she had 11 kids, nine daughters, two sons. Nobody played basketball in my family. Nobody ever looked at the basketball and said, yo, this is, this is me. This is, so however, my grandmama said, I used to sit up. up under my granddaddy and watch basketball with him.

And she said, one day I said, I'm going to get, I brought the basketball tour and I told I want to play basketball. She said, when I got older, about four or five, she said, I'm going to go to the NBA and I'm going to bat you a cat leg. And I didn't even know I was talking like this at five years old, but I said it. However, I remember my mother moving out of my grandmother's house and moving further South in Chicago on 95th in Princeton Park to be, 95th in Princeton to be exact. And all I can remember is me falling in love with the game of basketball when Joanne Howard

signed for $100 million. He signed $100 million. And listen, I'm talking about, soon as you walk outside of my development, it's a basketball playground. Where's this? What was it called? The Juan Howard Court. No, when you, your development, then you...

I'd say 95th in Princeton. That's the address, but it's called Loading Home Development. It's a housing authority in Chicago. So we grew up in rough... I know you did. So you're growing up, is this south side or west side? Southside. Okay, Southside.

But what was the nickname? What did everybody call it? What? The name of my neighborhood? Yeah. Princeton Park. Okay. So the park, maybe.

I don't know. But for the most part, Juan Howard, he used to live over there. Right. He used to live maybe, I want to say, a good 10 doors

down the street from me. Right? They moved out mid-year as I moved over there. Okay. He used to cut hair over there or whatever. Joanne cut hair? Yeah, he used to cut hair.

I didn't know that. Yeah. Axe when you see it. I will. And for the most part, All I can remember him is going to the Fab Five being a part of that, going to the bullets, boom, signing a big deal, boom. And we're watching this as kids. Like, we're watching this like, Nuki going to the NBA.

We call them Nuki in the neighborhood. And it was like, that was one of the motivations. Like, yo, he just came back and built a playground in front of, why can't I go to the NBA? So it wasn't Jordan? It wasn't Jordan. But I felt the love for Jordan later as I got older because I started studying the game and started learning about the game

and actually watching it being in town. But for the most part, like hands-on motivation, like right there in my face, like knowing I could do it, Juan Howard pulls up in the Bentley Azores-a-Zor, drop-top. Brand new, they cut the court. Man, I looked at Juan Howard,

boom, shook his hand. Right before he walked to the, back and got into his car, because he did his little cell phone and didn't get out of that. But I got that too late. And, man, so I pull off. And every day on that court I played and I tried to beat like this, man, this crazy. We even bringing this up.

My whole time in thinking I was going to the NBA and my whole neighborhood could vouch for this, they always said I was going to the pros. Like my neighborhood, they always said I was a pro. Right. So the only way I thought I could be a pro is beat the old head in my neighborhood. His name was Avery Banks. Yeah. He's going to hit his interview, too.

He's going to be like, you still can't beat. But, oh, but the thing is, the thing is, I didn't know what AAU basketball was at the time. So it's like if I don't know, if I think I could beat the neighborhood hero as far as basketball in my neighborhood, nobody's going to know me. That's the reality of it.

Right. You get what I'm saying? Yes. But what I was missing out on, I found that why I was missing out on was the AAU circuit. And I got to the point where, I had made a lot of bad decisions, you know what I'm saying? Like, as far as should I hang with my homeboys or should I go to the park and play?

Should I... How old is this? This is about like 10, 9, 10, 11. So you guys are hanging at 10, 11? So when you say hang. Hang, yes. Okay? Now you're 37.

Yeah. What was hang when you were 10 years old in Southside Chicago with your boys instead of going to play? Well, one lucky thing for my mother was that she went to school at the time. night time and she worked during the day. So a lot of times she's making ends meet and trying to show us that getting the education is far more important than

a lot of what's going on if you don't got your knowledge. So I took advantage of that as a kid you know what I mean? It's a playground in front of my house. So I'm obviously sneak outside and hang with my homeboy because they was... But when you say bad decisions, like

what was the level of bad decisions? I'd be outside shooting dice doing all type of like just neighborhood stuff. Is you good at shooting dice? Yeah, I was at, yeah, I was, I was gambling at the early age. Doing just a little bad stuff, looking like my home boys would be doing a little crazy stuff. I'd be running from the police, breaking car, like kids stuff.

Yeah. Like at that age. Yeah. So, you know what I mean? And basketball itself, you know, wasn't, like, in my vision. A priority? Yeah, it wasn't like, it was like, yo, how I'm going to. give me a piece of puff or get something to eat

to the next two hours with my stomach hurt. So one of them type of thing. You get to high school. High school, yeah, move forward, get to high school. Crane High School. Crane High School. Now were you at Crane to start the whole four years? No, I wasn't. See, that's the thing. When I got to Crane,

I had just got back from re-entering school. I slick kind of dropped out a little bit. I got kicked out of a school. Okay, wait, wait, wait, wait. Start freshman years. What school? Julian. Julian High School? Percy L. Julia.

Where's that? That's Southside? Southside. Okay. Public? Public. Yeah, because I lived on 95th, so it was like I couldn't go to the West Side Chicago school because it was five, my jurors.

I got you. So, okay, so you show up at high school. Have you been playing? Are you even playing at you? No, whatsoever. Just hanging out? Hang it. I thought I could be Avery Banks in my neighborhood.

I was playing him. We had tournaments. We played tournaments. We called out pick persons on the court. All right, I got him, him, him. I ain't got no shoes. The guy might say he might not have no shoes on. He, the odd guy, we need 10.

Okay, so you show up at high school. Yeah. You're hoping then? You playing on the team then or no? I'm trying to tell you right now. My whole thought process was using the Jouin-Hawak court platform to take off. Yes. That's what I was thinking.

That was on my mind. Okay. So now when I get to high school, I'm just signing up for school. I didn't even know that, you know, getting on, I was oblivious to how you get to the NBA. So, okay, so freshman year you didn't, you don't play high school basketball your freshman year? I played, but I didn't have the grades.

I played the first half of the season, and then I flunked out. How do you flunk out of high school? You just don't go? Oh, yeah, it was kind of, it was, I went to, it's kind of hard. If you really want to know, I went to like a fashion school. So, like, the school that I was going to, it was like a lot of times, you know, the girls are looking at your shoes and all the basketball players you know they had nice clothing yeah and me coming from Chicago Housing Authority I wasn't able to be that present at the

time you know what I mean right and so sometimes that would discourage me you get what I'm saying yes so the best way I'd know to try to do something was to oh they're shooting dice over there in the back of the uh the donut shop I would miss it. first and second period trying to win $100. And then I go to the... Buy some shoes. Yeah. And get some for the next three-fold eight.

Do you remember who was a high school coach at? Lauren Jackson. I'm glad you brought him up. What about we could speak on him? You know what did he tell you? He kicked me off the team. What did he say? He said, you're not going to class.

He brought my whole trans. He brought my whole... Like when you say it's bad, like all Fs or like... Truancy. Like, I was... I wasn't participating in the, and I was doing a lot of just crazy stuff as a kid. Worst thing you did? I say the, I say the worst moment in high school when I know it was getting bad.

My mother came to school to get me out of school one time. And she came during the period where it was like, it was, I suppose, been in class. You weren't there? I wasn't there. So one of the security guys was like, I know exactly where he yet. and all I could remember is them like just running downstairs from all angles they everybody else got away except me so you're at school but you're like what you're shooting dice right yeah I was trying to shoot dice in the hallways and then all I could remember was my mother being in at the end of the door and it was like

she smacking me upside my head hitting me I'm talking about smacking me oh man she beat me up like really beat me up in front of the security guard the security didn't say nothing and she was like why are you down in school why you're not in school then my coach came out. It was like, yo, we're ready to kick him out of school. It was bad. It was bad. Well, look, I mean, you don't know this, but I got similar experiences. Even before, I got in trouble in college. Like, when I was, so eighth grade, I was little. I was like five feet tall. Yeah. So my dad was, hey, we're going to hold you back. You're going to go eighth grade, different school next year. So I knew, like, I was going to do it again. Like, I'm not going. Get all that. So my, probably my

worst moment that year was I was funk in a bunch of my classes I wasn't showing up and they sent their report card in the mail and their report card was you remember it had that there's like a film that that they

I don't know how they would do it but it would make the grades on the other paper and you peel it open and then you have your grades right there so the trick was if you get it before your parents got it you can go in there real quick with an eraser and then you put in an old typewriter and you could type in the grade so I type in like A's and B.

Oh, you were way advanced to me. And I was like, straight. So I was, by, this is before, like, now they just email your parent when you miss a class. Like, I know, I know all my kids' grades in everything, right? It's crazy. So I'd never forget, I get in trouble in school, and I get suspended because, you know, I was, I played some prank on a teacher's lounge or whatever. And my mom gets called in to see the assistant principal. and he sends a principal hate to me because I was always in there.

And she's like, he tells her, I mean, I don't know what we're going to do. He's failing all his classes. She's like, what are you talking about? Filling all these guys and bees in one seat. Uh-oh, uh-oh. No, Mrs. Gottlieb, here, come look right here. So I get home and she's got like a printout of my real grades and my report card. And I come home, like, walk in, like, hey, Mom, how you doing?

And my dad, that was the worst I ever got beat by my dad. So did they, do you drop out of school? They kick you out of school? What happened? Man, it was like this. My mother was, my mother was at the point at that time. She was like, she was, she said I'm done. She watched her hands with me.

She's like, you're 15 now. She sent me with my dad. So my dad, he was like at the time, he wasn't really able to do nothing for me. So it was more so like, oh, I'm on my own. Well, when you say wasn't able to do it. So where did he live? He lived on the east side. He's lived right off 71st in St. Lawrence.

So he's in east side of Chicago. East side of Chicago. So you show up, had you ever lived with your pasta before? No, but this specific school year, my second year, my sophomore year. So you made it through your first year? Yeah. But you didn't play, but you only played a little bit because you were ineligible because of grades. Yeah.

Okay. So your sophomore year, you go where? Back to Julian. Okay. But you're on the east side. I live with my daddy this time. Okay. So I got to catch the bus now and get to school from a longer distance.

It was kind of rough for me. But for the most part, I got there and I was just doing the same stuff. Because it was like I wasn't fin to go to school if I ain't had no new shoes or if I ain't have a new t-shirt and pick. Like I was feeling that type of way because it's trust me it happens to a lot of kids. Yeah, I got it. But for that time, um, I just stopped going all the way. Stop going and hanging out a little harder than what I was hanging out as a kid, kid.

And just getting into bad stuff as far as like just, I can remember going to other schools, getting caught fighting at other schools, going to jail for that. Just a lot of running up, running from the police, beating up people at the L station. Because that's just what was the activity of what me and my young comrades, were doing at the time and I would get caught or whatnot but yeah I all halted when I when it came to a point where my mother I came home and my mother wasn't there like the whole house was empty

and I went and I was like yo nobody's at home so I end up catching the bus going to my grandmother house and I get to my grandmother house thinking she was over there but at that time she wasn't even over there she had moved to the west side of Chicago so I had been calling her calling her calling her And she didn't tell you? She didn't tell him. So she called in the calling, call, and she didn't tell me. And then all of a sudden, I called my grandmother one time. And she called, well, yeah, I called my grandmother.

She said, you need to get back in this house. You live over here now. Your mama don't want you on the west side in her new house. I said, huh? So I was like, wow, I was kind of hurt. But I was trying to be tough and be a man. And, like, I'm out here on my own. And one thing led to another.

It was a time where it was some shooting going on, and I was young at the time. It kind of scared me. Did you ever have a gun? No, no, I wasn't even that type of. I mean, no. But when I end up going to the, this is how I ended up linking back up with Will Braynum. After that happened, I was so scared. I went to the IIT.

It's a pro-em basketball league in Chicago at the time. It was big back in the day. Right. All the greats played in Finley, Mike Finley. Mike Finley. Mike Finley, Tim Hardaway, Antoine Walker, Quinn Richardson, Theris Mowell, like everybody from that area participated. So I went up there thinking I'm going up there to just play a watch a game, end up

up seeing one of my good friends, Jason Strait. And, you know, he told me like, man, yo, you hooping? I'm like, yeah, I'm hooping. I had just bought a new pair of Jordans or whatever. So I knew that I could hoop. If you want me to hoop, I just need some shorts. That's the Jason Strait to play at Wyoming? Yeah, Jason Strait played in Wyoming.

And true story. And I played on his team. And as I was playing, Will Bynum had the next game after that. And Will Bynumhead came in like second half by the game. He saw me play, we won or whatever. And he saw me play, we were like, yo, T.A., where you hooping that? Like, he couldn't believe that I, like, I still had it or whatever from Biddy basketball. He was like seven or eight years old, six, seven.

So he was like, what do you tell me? He told me he moved to the, he playing for a school on the west side of Chicago, which was crane at the time. And if you're familiar with the Chicago basketball system, they got a blue division and the red division. Any team that wins in the blue division automatically bumps the last team in the red division. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind.

Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise. Breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down,

give you context and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports Slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to Sports Slice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slic Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hard Way with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kier Games. And in recognition of Mental Health Awareness Month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations.

with so many incredible guests. I'm talking. Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing and we're still chasing it and we don't know when we've done enough.

Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth? Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust.

I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, is we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hardway. Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. What's up, guys? This is Clivert Taylor the Fourth. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker walks up to me, he goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Time out.

Quarterback on office blue of 42. Hey, rec, my mama want you to wave at her. What? Hey, Ms. Parker. Listen to the Clippers show on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. What's up, fam, Ms. Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano, and our podcast Point Game is about defying the odds. like LeBron heading into the playoffs without Luca and Austin Reed.

And finding ways to win no matter what. He's the smartest player to ever play the game. His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before. And he knows without Luca and Austin Reeves, I got to manipulate the game. We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the playoffs. I think Joker's going to be exhausted this series because when they don't have Rudy in the lineup,

he has to really guard guys like Nas Reid. He has to guard Julius Randall. And then he has to give us everything. everything he gives us on the night-to-night basis on offense. And when IT's friends stop by, like Quentin Richardson, we dive into some playoff history too. Steve Nash will get that thing. That man, hell get the flying.

He running up the court, licking his fingers why he got the ball. Like, you go through a training camp with that, Isaiah. You figure it out real quick. Get your ass up and down the court, and you're going to get the ball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. conference and they move up to the eighth seat in that conference or whatever. Will did that by himself with a help of two others,

players on the team, Jabbar battle or whatever. He had a platform. The whole city knew him. When I tell you the second game that he came in, my game didn't have nobody there. It was just if you knew basketball, you could see talent and you know who good, you know who played in the later. I got it.

But Will saw something different. Will like, yo, I like what you what you're doing right now. And he's like, he's your age and he's telling you this? He's younger than me. That's pretty interesting though, right? Yeah. How did he have that much kind of respect from people?

Because I just tried to tell you. He was in the blue division, right? Of, like, this city of Chicago is a basketball city. I got it. Whether y'all know it or not. Yes. And Will Bynum was had the handles and the moves to make you look and be like,

and I. So the whole city knew that. So when he played, when it's promoted that he's about to play, the city is coming out. Showing up. And he came and he saw me, but he told me like, man, you could actually play with me in high school right now. I told him my situation at Julian. I told him what my mother moved to. And once I told him when my mother had moved, he was

like, you can live on the west side now? I was like, yeah, he was like. And I hadn't even got officially in my my mama house but that's what I told him so so he talks you and he wants you to come to crane yeah how did you get in your how did you get back to your mom's house well it was one of those situations where you know I had to kiss a little butt and tell mama hey I'm sorry and I won't do it again I won't do it no more and then we'll obviously you know put the icing on the cake when he came over and show her you know his you know success of what he was

doing and it was like a no-brainer we go up to the school the school see my trans and they're looking at me like, you sure you want to go to school? And it was like a point where the principal was looking like, man, I don't know. Will Bynum once again came back in the meeting, in the conference room, and I don't know how he got out of class. But he came in there and he told him, teacher. I mean, the principal, hey, we need this guy. He told him get back in class.

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You really want to? You want to? I saw Will Bynum with a fast-star Eastern Invitational shirt, right? Yeah. Like the little set. Yeah. And he started schooling me on what's going on in the basketball world. You know, he was playing A-U, he got notarass.

such such and he broke down the whole formula to him. But I was a junior in high school about it. And you never, like, you hadn't played, like, a whole season yet, right? Like, you didn't even play your sophomore year. So your crane coach is who? Do we got to talk about him? Yeah. His name, Longstreet.

Anthony Longstreet. Why don't you want to talk about it? Because, man, I would just, you know, I never told him about this. So I'm giving you exclusive. That's good. That's why I asked. That's the whole idea. And there ain't no mystery in my history, neither.

So whoever will a bag to different, they could do it. But, man, Maddo, I just told you how I had to go the route to get there. Right. I got there. Okay. But they didn't tell you, I didn't tell you the part where I had the, I was a demoted junior. Like, I was, I had freshman, matter of fact, when I was a junior, I had, like, I didn't, them go to class.

I had 0.5 credits. I think I went to gym throughout the whole year. It gave me a credit. Right, right. But when I started off it, I had to swallow my pride. Like, do you know how embarrassed it was?

I can't imagine. Like, to sit in a freshman class and I'm looking grown as hell. You're like 15 years old. Yeah. I'm looking grown as hell in this class. I did it, but look, they made me go to a zero period.

That's like 7 a.m. That's like 6 a.m. To 7 a.m. You see what I'm saying? The first period started at 7 a.m. They only got eight periods. They put another period on at the end. Ninth period for all the freshmen.

This is how you... So if you were in school lying about you a junior or senior or whatever, and you're really a freshman, this is the time going to determine whether you was one of those sophomores or juniors or seniors. Because at the 230, it's a 230 to 330 class that all the freshmen's mandatory got to take. Here it is.

I'm 16 going to that class. But I had to do it. Right. Because I got to get eligible for the second half. of this season of my junior year. Right. So I did it, and they had a few, I think it was like a three-day night course. We built back up the credits, sort of speak, for me to get eligible.

They even made me play football. Position? Yeah. What position? Right-received. You're nice? I was all right, but my mind wasn't in it. And we was in the Blue Division, so it was like sometimes, you know,

you might not know who had on the court. I mean, on the field playing, they might have the teachers out there playing with the helmet on. You know, it was so kind of messed up. But I end up playing that under an alias. Wait, you played football under an alias? Yeah. What was the alias? I think it was some Jenkins.

Some, it was some. You've got to find out the name. That's amazing. I got to find it out. That should have been, when you traveled in the NBA, you know, they get fake names, to register in hotels. You know, you could be like Leroy Jenkins. They could be like, something like that.

Why is that your name name? You actually played high school football under a fake name. Yeah. Scoring touchdowns? Yeah, I was cold. But I never saw. And that's what made me thinking like, damn, why my name never in the paper? Because you weren't eligible.

Right. That's amazing. You know what I'm saying? So that happened. That happened. I'm just giving you them wrong. That's fresh off the press, too. But Anthony Longstreet, back to this guy.

This guy, um, he didn't. had no school for me when I was done. And I did a lot for the school. I was like, yo, I played on the alias. I was like, yo, I'm like, yo, I got elderly. What you say? What do you mean you said? You mean like trying to get you in a college?

Yeah. He didn't have not one college. So what, hold, let's... I know I'm going fast, but go ahead. I need pick through, but whatever you want to know. No, no, but I'm saying it. So you don't play first semester. Mm-mm.

Second semester, you do play. I don't play at all. Your junior year in high school, you didn't play at all? My sophomore year, you said my first year? Wait, no, you're... First semester. freshman. No, that's your first year.

Okay, and I play half of that year. Half of that year. So, in that sophomore year, I don't play it off. Right. So your junior year. Junior year, now I'm like, yo, I want to go to school. Right, right, right. But you said you had to get your grade.

You had to, like, grind and do zero period, and then the, the 230 freshman class. Did you get to play the whole season? After my junior. Who your junior year? I play half of the season. That's what I'm saying. So you play half the season. Right.

Do you remember your first game? Like, you like, literally, never. No, I don't remember none of that. that. I don't remember none of that because you've got to figure I was like I was trying to get used to back used to playing organized basketball. Right, real basketball.

That's why I asked like, what is it like to go from playing a pro-am, playing at the park, you're always able to play. Exactly. But now you're playing real basketball at the highest level of high school high school basketball in Chicago. Will Will Bynum. Like, what does that like? It was kind of easy.

Will made it easy. Because I, he had a play we set a play. A lot of teams stuck zone. Backpicks, lobs. I knew I could jump and dunk, so anytime we set a back pick on the back of the zone, I'm getting that lob. What else? Running the lanes was easy. I could give me five or six points doing that. Getting to the free throw line, I'm going to give me five points doing that before you know what I'm averaging 14 in the game. Meanwhile, he's shooting all the balls. So all they got to do is give me a few putbacks And run that, run that, those, you know, those lanes and whatever.

But for the most part, I still didn't have the concept to know what to know how to get to the lead. It didn't, it didn't dawn on me until later, but I started from junior year like you was. Okay. So then you, so that year you losing like the elite eight, right? Is that, does that, did you guys go downstate? Do you remember? No, my junior year, my junior year, we lost in the, we lost the first game. lost our first game in the playoff.

To who? I don't know. I don't even remember. I think Whitney Young, I think Whitney Young. Whitney Young, they had a dude named Ron Henry or something. No, it was it Ryan Henry? Something out. Ron something.

But the Red West was tough, man. It was a lot of guys that they was pumping up during the Red West. I thought it was like, man. I was feeling like a loner, man. You don't know. That was a tough time of Crane. So I'm fin of finish talking about this guy, Long Street, but keep going.

Okay, no ahead. So then your senior year, how old did you guys do? We lost in the league eight. Okay. So Will didn't win it until you were gone, right? He didn't win until I was gone. Maybe you're holding the team back. No, if that's the case, we're going to blame it on Longstreet because you know what

he was doing? He had Lorenzo Thompson. He had Florentino Vaselinea. Them boys were shooting all the balls. And he had any type of. discipline on our team, maybe we could have had a few plays. Maybe we could have, but we went the whole year with Will Bynum averaging 30 and just shooting all the balls and getting us out of real tough situations with his talent.

It hurt us. And, you know, sometimes, you know, they throw different frees, like messy little zones or messy little presses. It could affect your young ball club. So you finish in 2000, right? That was 2000. Right. Class of Dair's Miles, Dwayne Wade.

Cedric Banks Who else? Amari Sawyer I'm just calling all the elite names Who else? Who else? Who else? That's all I could think. So you had no scholarship offers?

No whatsoever. When I came out And I remember the day Walking in the Longstreet, I was asking him, I did the thing. Everybody, I'm here and Will Bynum and committed to Arizona as a junior

in high school. I'm like, wow. So I want everybody through the school asking me where I'm going. So I'm like, home? I'm like, man. So it started dying on me right then. Like, y'all need a school to go to him. What, what I do?

What did I do? I went right back to wherever I'm down. And whenever I want to see some basketball, I go to the pro. I went back to the pro. Had me a bag with me this time. Because I'm a hooper now. I'm not hanging out no more. I'm playing basketball, baby.

You know what I'm saying? Yeah. So I get up in there, see my boy James Peters. Here's a guy who was supposed to go out of high school like Leon Smith. Right, right to the pros. Right to the pro. See, when Leon Smith went to the pro 1999, fresh out of high school, King High School, the next year was supposed to be James Peters, right?

Come to find out, James Peters was 22 years old. He was too old. So look, I catch him at the pro-am. Right? Yeah. And I'm telling him, I'm like, man, what's up? Where you been, Bigfella? I thought you should be getting ready for the draft.

What's good, Bigfella? Bigfeller hadn't been playing the last seven months because he'd been in the Eljum. Right. I didn't know that. So I asked him, what school do you go to? He said, man, I go to a school in Kansas man called Butler Community in Kansas College. He said, man, I got the juice out there.

He said, man, you in school? I get you in school. I said, look, it got. And I'm telling, yeah, not one school to go to, I was down and out. I was so upset that I couldn't. Look, Darry's Miles went straight to the league out of high school. Right, that's the hard part is not just that you don't have a school.

It's you looking at your peers. Duane Way with the Marquette, like all these guys going to he plays. Man, what Tony Allen going, man? So what I do? I'll go back to the program. See Jane Peter. Jane Peter. Oh, you were trying to trick them people on.

I'm looking at him like, no, how you laugh? He's like, but not for real, man. Man, I don't want to be in Kansas about myself. Come on down here with me, man. He's like, I'm like, you hooping? He's like, yeah, we play right now. Man, you're on, you hooping? I'm like, yeah, I'm going to play.

I play with him, hoop with him. After the game, he got on the phone. We're in the locker room. He'd say, hey, man, Coach Hems. I got a guard down here. You're going to need him. Now, imagine, I'd never been on a plane. I never even took a plane.

Ever? I didn't get on a plane until this time I'm going to tell you. I was 18 years old. Got on a plane. went down there he had some guys down there hoping I had to be the guy with gold teeth in his mouth

he had braids in the day he was from the wallas and had to be the guy from Jamaica he actually ended up signing me and the Jamaican guy but I went out there man I flew out there for scrimmage with them guys man

and I'm telling him Dennis Hams if you know who Dennis Hams is coached from Bullitt. Hey listen I gave him all my Chicago go moves. I gave him the crossover, Tim Hardaway crossover. I gave him to behind the back, behind my back. I gave him the average. I gave him the jab jab shot. I gave him to everything I can give him, the Tracy McGrady pull up, and I'm actually hitting these shots. That's why I'm telling you.

We went in all the games. He stopped the scrimmage, pulled me upstairs in his office, and he had the letter of intent to sign. I say, so what's that it? He said, man, this is for you. sign here to college. Your mother's going to love this. I'm giving you free room aboard. Full scholarship. You will be attending. Brother.

Going back home, get with your belongings, and we're going to fly you back. Went back home and told my mom, I'm going to college. She thought I was lying. No cap. So now, moving forward, back to Longstreet. Every since then, I've never ever spoke his name ever again.

El Dorado, Kansas. El Dorado, Kansas. Man, I just, dude from the south side of Chicago, care of the east and then the west side. So you, like, look, when you're hooping, you're in the gym, you're in the gym. Right. You show up, like, first day, you get off the plane, and now you're a junior college student in El Dorado, Kansas.

What was that like? I was like I'm lit. I'm lit. Only because I had, I had, I had. already like I went to that program and played when I played the gaming with James I killed I had like 25 that guy and we won we end up losing in the championship to lutherhead Will Biden and Antoine Walker that team stacked yeah they were stacked we ended up losing oh no no no I'm sorry I'm sorry I'm sorry that was the year

before that that's what that's what actually yeah uh don't don't give me to missing my years up because I went to both championship games. Okay. And lost both of them in the IAT. Okay. But, however, we'll won a bonus, both of them. Moving forward, uh, El Dorado, Kansas was just one of those. By the way, there's a trend there. I just want to, we'll always be in you. I just want to point that out.

You must, yeah, it is. You have to point out. And I hate that, man. I hate that, but it's cool. It's my guy. It's my brother. Better him than anybody else. But listen, man, when I was at Eldorado, Kansas, I knew for a fact, man, when I got

there, I was like, yo, I'm going pro. I was like, I'm going pro yo because practice was too easy. I was like, is this practice? Like I'm telling you, I was nice. Okay, so why'd you leave and go to Wabash? I got in trouble, man. Doing what?

I did something that was detrimental to the team. What is detrimental to the team? Like, it's 20 years ago. You could share with you? I was, I was, I had got. Were you drinking? Did you get to fight? Yeah, I was all the above.

but it was one of them situations where it came like the year was over with I was calling myself you know celebrating or whatever but they had wanted to bring me a award I won freshman of the year of the conference so as they were a jahaw conference by the way jahaw conference they was trying to um and it was some tough guys in there too I remember Eby Erie, I don't know if you remember that name. Oklahoma. Oklahoma. It was a lot of, it was just a lot of good guys in that league.

However, he ended up going to Oklahoma. But I got the award. They came to the dorm, tory, to try to, you know, found me to give me the award. And when they walked in, you know, they was like, hold on.

Wait, me, what's going on? And that was it. That was the end of, They were trying to give you an award, and because they walked in, they're just smoke everywhere and whatever. Yep, and that happened. I was young, man.

I was young, man. No, no, I mean, like, look. But yeah, that happened. And once they found that, it was a no smoking policy. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending,

opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise. down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral

moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to Sports Slice. On the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slice Life 12 and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Keer Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark.

Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing, and we're still chasing it, and we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person

while you hear on earth, or are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Keer Gaines, is we have real conversations about healing,

growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, learn the hard way. Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Learn the hard way and listen now. What's up, guys? This is Clivert Taylor the Fourth. And on my podcast, The Cliverts show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff,

like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker, this linebacker walks up to me. He goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Time out. Quarterback on office blue with 42. Hey, Wreck, Mom, I want you to weigh better.

What? Where's she at? Hey, Miss Parker. Listen to the Clippers show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano, and our podcast Point Game is about defining the odds. Like LeBron heading into the playoffs without Luca and Austin Reed.

And finding ways to win no matter what. He's the smartest players. to ever play the game. His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before. And he knows. Without Luca and Austin Reeves, I got to manipulate the game. We get a player's perspective

on the challenges of the playoffs. I think Joker's going to be exhausted this series because when they don't have Rudy in the lineup, he has to really guard guys like Nas Reid. He has to guard Julius Randall. And then he has to give us everything he gives us on the night-to-night basis on offense. And when IT's friends stop by, like Quentin Richardson,

we dive into some playoff history too. Steve Nash would get that thing. That man, hell get the flying. He running up the court, licking his fingers, why he got the ball. Like, after you go through a training camp with that, Isaiah, you figure it out real quick. Get your ass up and down the court, and you're going to get the ball. So listen to Point Game on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And they told me like, all right, you got to pack your bag.

We don't give two. Screw this reward. and they send me up on going. But Dennis Ham, shout out to Dennis Hamps. He held my back in that situation because he told me, he said, man, you're too talented. He said, before I let you, you know, be out here and be bad, he was like, I'm going to set you up with another school

who need a guard. One of the guards there, some dude named Tarra, Antonio Tarva, I think that's his name. And he basically was gone. He went over to another school, and they need a guard like myself. And at the time, I was salty because I had just got the war and I realized how much I had made an ass of myself. So I just, that whole summer, I just worked on my game, worked on my game, worked on my game.

Coach Hams called me and told me he's like, you know, get ready because they won the championship the previous year, the NJCAA championship. So I got ready. And when I got there, I was hearing reports. They had a guard there named Antoine Barber who was supposed to leave out of the junior college and go to the pros. He didn't go.

He stayed back or whatever and committed to Kentucky. So a lot of the hooerad was on him. A lot of the scouts come in, you know, before he had signed or whatever, they would see him. And I was test my game up to him. Now, man, Joe, I think I'm going pro.

Like, I'm going pro now. Like, I know I'm good. I know I'm nice. I just got to get out of this trouble. All I got to do is get out of this trouble. I got over there and saw him and knew that they was having him in the mock draft. And, you know, all pro athletes look at the mock draft. I don't care who you are.

You're looking at that mock draft. And I saw his name on the mock draft like 21 and 20. And he stayed in school. I was like, this is my test. If I can bone him, when I say bone, that mean beat him. I got it. Beat him to the bone. If I can bone him, I'm going pro.

And every day I made it a competition. Like when we play pickups, we ain't, it's not about to. be no me and you on the same team. It's me and you. It's me against you. Every day in practice. Every day in practice. That was my lip-mist test to see if I was ready. And boy, did I give him here. I remember

this like yesterday. I used to bust his head every day. But he was good. We go at it. I remember one time playing him one-on-one, not one-on-one, five-on-five. We're playing the game. Games go to 12, one of the two. I remember one of the girls on the sidelines saying

you guys might as well play full court one-on-one because y'all ain't passing the ball or nobody. But that's how competitive we was. And I think on the route and the journey of me going to the NBA, I needed that kind of fire. You know what I'm saying? I needed those mishaps. I needed those, you know what I'm saying,

those wrong, my feelings in getting into a situation and realizing the consequences of it. I needed that to happen. So it goes, you know what I'm saying? Yeah. Antoine Barber ends up going to continue. Yeah, he signed with Kentucky late. So how did it end up you went to Oklahoma State?

And that's a good point. So now with that being said, my boy, end up signing. You end up seeing all the schools just stopped coming. Like, I'm talking about literally, it was like a big, like a 30 school drop. Because he's signed with Kentucky. He said, I'm going to Kentucky. All right, everybody's done. So now you're seeing your I-U-P-U-I.

You see your cradence, you see your Illinois State. Or you're just seeing all these off-brand schools. But then you've got Oklahoma State still there. They get them about six games a year, about four, five games a year. You see what I'm like, it's still some hope. But we had a few more good players on the team. I didn't know who he was looking at it then. What grows in the forest?

Trees? Sure. Know what else grows in the forest? Our imagination, our sense of wonder, and our family bonds grow too, because when we disconnect from this and connect with this, we reconnect with each other. The forest is closer than you think.

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outstretched to the sky. They see treasure and pebbles. They see a windy path that could lead to adventure. And they see you. Their fearless guide is this fascinating world. Find a forest near you and start exploring at Discovertheforest.org. Brought to you by the United States Forest Service and the ad council. And we're live here outside the Perez family home just waiting for the And there they go. Almost on time this morning. Mom is coming out the front door strong with a double-armed kid carry. Looks like Dad has the bag's daughter is bringing up the rear.

Oh, but the diaper bag wasn't closed. Diapers and toys are everywhere. Ooh, but Mom has just nailed the perfect car seat buckle for the toddler. And now the eldest daughter, who looks to be about nine or ten, has secured herself in the booster seat. Dad zips the bag closed and they're off. Ah, but looks like mom doesn't realize her coffee cup is still on the roof of the car. And there it goes.

Oh, that's a shame. That mug was a fam favorite. Don't sweat the small stuff. Just nail the big stuff. Like making sure your kids are buckled correctly in the right seat for their age and size. Learn more at nhtsa.gov slash the right seat. Visit nhtsa.gov. Slash the right seat.

Brought to you by Nitzah and the Ad Council. You had, uh, let's see here. Johnny Hollingsworth? Yeah, but did he? Anthony Wiltshire? Anthony Wiltshire was nice. Was Marquez Lewis on that team or was he the next year? Quinnell Brown.

Quinnell Brown was, yeah, he was there. He was a freshman. He was a freshman. Yeah. Tony Whedon. Tony Whedon was nice. I liked little Tony. Yeah, that's your squad, right?

And I didn't know who those, because some of those guys came in with good grades and only need to do one year. Right. I need that. You need to get your A. So, however, them guys stop coming. I can remember seeing him a good friend of man today, Glenn Sibrean, you know him. Just him trying to use his tools to what he could do at the time in the NCAA rules.

He couldn't talk to us, but it wasn't no, you know what I'm saying? It wasn't like he couldn't make his eyes move or it's like, you know what I'm saying, a yarn or anything. So he was doing all those little antics that you let me know that he was still here for me. And he was coming to a lot of games where I didn't think he would show up at, man. and he'll show up, I see him, and he was part of my motivation and me believing I could be pro too.

So you go to Stillwater, and again, so now you've been in two small towns in junior college, right? Yep. Any trouble at Wabash? No trouble in Wabash. Okay. I knew then.

I knew then I was started smart enough, like, yo, this type of stuff affects your draft status. People started talking to me then. Once they started seeing my game, like, Tia, you got a, slow down. T.A. you got to be cool. T.A.

Don't you, like, it's thaw donning on. Okay, except if you're third day at school, you're getting to fight a Wadberger. Yeah, I did. Okay, so you show up, who

are you hanging with? Like, again, this is like, you're going new crew to new crew, new high school. Right, right. So this is your third team, actually your fourth team and four years if you think about it, right?

High school, junior college, junior college, college. So you show up at Oklahoma State, who you hanged with? Shane Gasson. Shane Gasson's a cool dude. Shane Gasson. From New York.

And I love this swag, man. I hope he hit this, man. I love this swag, man. He, the first one taught me how to wear Timberlin boots. You know, he had this thing where, you know, he was from New York. Yeah. And Tim's was like the style or whatnot. And I gravitated to the New York way of life, man.

Okay. So you show up and Shane Gasson's there. So you guys, there's... Victor Williams was my roommate, too, both of those guys. That's a good dude. Those were my roommate, Victor Williams and Shane Gass. Okay, so Vic, Shane Gadsden, you guys, good little backwards. A lot of ball handling in that backwood.

Yeah, no pass. Right, no passing. Shane, all the ball handling. Just couldn't play for coach. Could not play for coach. Man, New York Guard. Couldn't play for coach. Typical New York Guard.

Right, right. Yeah. So you get in this fight, and I remember... remember because at that I just started in this industry and I remember them called me like we're going to have to get rid of this Tony Allen he's our best player we're going to have to get rid of him oh you can't stay out of trouble oh so here's what I was here's what I remember I remember that you got to fight in the middle of the night with the Langston football players where big brawl and so as punishment they brought you in what the next night at that time

yeah yeah the next day if you want to hang out at one in the morning and get to fight we're going to run you at one of the more. No, listen, hold on. No, coach ain't do it like that. Coach went in the afternoon first. They was trying to teach me a lesson. They was like, yo, let them stay in there. So they ain't buying me out till the week.

Wait, let you stay in the jail? I stayed at what? Payne County Jail. I get out Saturday night. So you, I went in Thursday, get out Saturday night. And for people who, and for people who don't know, like, look, I don't know about every college campus.

I do know about Oklahoma State. The first Thursday night, of school is the night. It's the night. It's the night. It's the night. Like just cancel all your plans. You're just going to be out all night. So literally the first Thursday and school. Like. First Thursday. You hadn't even done laundry yet. It's the first Thursday. And you're in jail.

And I'm in jail, yeah. It was rough, man. So look, let me tell you this story, man. Let me go on and just break it to you. So my boy, Melvin Sanders, he's a lady's man. Okay, so let me, before you, I want you keep that story. So let me tell you Melvin's standards. So for people who don't know, Melvin Sanders, playing the NBA with the Spurs. which is like the greatest upset ever. And here's why. Melvin, my junior year in the spring, he is graduating high school.

And they brought him down from liberal Kansas. Like he's like the only black dude. Like he's a triple jumper. Right. He was like potentially an Olympic level triple jumper. And they're like, hey, we want this cat to work out with you guys. And let us know if he can play. So he comes and he lifts with us and he trains with us.

And then we go play pickup. And we're like, as long as he's, doesn't have to dribble, pass, or shoot, he's nice. They're like, what are you talking about? Like, he can run and he can jump, and you can teach him how to guard somebody, but he has no basketball skill at all, right? Now, Melvin... Bruce Boyne, Jr.

Huh? I call him Bruce Boyn, Jr. Yes. Because he taught himself how to shoot, sort of, and then he can just guard the shit out of you, right? But that's why he went to junior college for a year, is because we said, like, he can't play Division I basketball. Like, he has no idea how to play.

play ballast, he can't dribble. And anyway, so then he came to campus. He becomes, I mean, you guys had an, um, so, all right, so he's the ladies man. He's the ladies, man. All the ladies loved him. Like, on the campus, like, I'm looking. He's got muscles, and he's at one of those is that, when he's shaved head, he's got, like, muscles in his head. His whole body's a muscle.

He definitely, he definitely big heat, one of the smoothest brothers in the room. And, you know, sometimes, man, you know, that could be, that can bite you. Because what ended up happening was he liked some girl in Langston. And, well, the dude played for Langston. The girl goes to Oklahoma State. He was talking to a such and such, such and such happened. The dude got his number and he was threatening him and telling him, I'll be down there first Thursday.

He had that same energy. What not, whatnot. So our whole thing was we're going to all black today. We're going to wear all black today Just in case we got a rat for Melvin Sins So that was my thing I had all black and everybody else was in all black That separated us from everybody

So we just how we was moving as the hoop squad So all I remember was walking the way Talking to somebody And at the time I didn't have my great lazy ass surgery That I got now And I'm squinting I'm like Yo is that the guys over there pushing up on Melvin So I end up running over there

and come to find out they were scuffing and moving and punching and whatever I thought the guy was getting the best of mail for so I end up hitting the guy come to find out

that was the police grabbing the guy ended up hitting the dude out of the police hands and realized that the police the police stopped grabbing him and started chasing me and I got up out of that

but my whole thing was to ride for milk right just protect my teammate and I end up I'm only one with the jail for it. A firm lesson, but if me ever hearing this, brother, I did that for you, brother. For real. So you get out of, so you're like, wait, they're not even going to bail me out of jail?

I could have bailed myself out of jail. You just assumed they would come get you. So you get out of jail. And I'm sure, like, for what, first thing you do is go to coach's office? No. It was just a long ride. with the equipment manager. I knew I was in trouble.

And I was like, yo. So then, you know, we all ran as a team. You know, the guys was like, yo, we're going to come in here. We're going to run with TA, you know. And whatever TA punishment is, it's our punishment too, right? So we do the 10

that's going down and back is one. Down and back is two. We did 10. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where SportsClice comes in. I'm Timbo.

Every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context and ask the questions everybody wants answered. SportsSlice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to SportsSlice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing,

we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing and we're still chasing it and we don't know when we've done enough because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth?

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Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. What's up, guys? This is Clever Taylor the Fourth. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker walks up to me, he goes,

hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Time out. Quarterback on office blue 42. Hey, ref, my mama want you to wave at her. What? Hey, Ms. Parker. Listen to the Clippers show on the IHeart Radio app,

Apple Podcast, or wherever you can. get your podcast. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano, and our podcast, Point Game is about defying the odds. Like LeBron heading into the playoffs without Luca and Austin Reed. And finding ways to win no matter what. He's the smartest player to ever play the game.

His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before. And he knows, without Luca and Austin Reeves, I got to manipulate the game. We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the playoffs. I think Joker's going to be exhausted this series because when they're don't have Rudy in the lineup, he has to really guard guys like Nas Reid. He has to guard Julius Randall. And then he has to give us everything he gives us on the night-to-night basis on offense. And when IT's friends stop by, like Quentin Richardson, we dive into some playoff history too.

Steve Nash will get that thing. That man, hell get the flying. He running up the court, licking his fingers why he got the ball. Like, you go through a training camp with that, Isaiah, you figure it out real quick. Get your ass up and down the court, and you're going to get the ball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Six, four, two. On the football field, right?

No. On the basketball court in the back gym. It's running. It's in time. You've got to get down and back in 22 seconds. I mean, what's that? No, no. It's down and back in 10 seconds.

10 seconds. 10 seconds. Yes. So cool. They did 10 through 2 with me. Yeah. but I had to do 9, 7, 5, 3 at 1

by myself. You want to quit? Twice. I had to do that twice. I had to do 9. They gave me the odd numbers twice. Everybody tied. 10, 10, whatever.

Yeah. Thank you guys. Appreciate you guys. For showing the love for Tony Allen. We appreciate it. But what we got for him set up is more on his own. And they did the odd number.

I had to do the odd numbers twice. I ain't throw it. up though. That was just one day? One day. Well, actually, I think I did throw up. I think you did throw up. I did throw up. I did throw it. I actually think it was a while ago because my memory of it was that they took you outside first. You did the football field at like four in the afternoon. It's so hot in Oklahoma. But no, I thought that was part of our regiment anyway. I season conditioning. See, that's what preseasoned condition. That's what made it.

That's what made it tough. The 10s, eight, because I had. had already did that run. So that's what made it tough, the night running. So, all right, but so now you got to play. So you survive that, and you get to play. And you guys had a talented, talented squad. What do you remember about, when you first started playing at Oklahoma State? First thing I remember about Oklahoma State, me first getting there and having to cut my

braids, my corn rolls. Let's not forget that. But getting to. No, no, so who told you had to cut it? Except. So he calls you up or he comes over, he comes over, calls you in? What do you do? I had, well, actually, getting to the game, I was playing to the, my first day that I had, I was just won a tournament on the Westass Chicago against some of the top high school talents.

And, I mean, some of the top college talents in Chicago, Seid Banks, Martell Bailey, all those got, we beat them in the championship. So I had to play that. there half of my head is braided the other half is in the afro so I'm looking crazy day three come around I get it all out and all first thing sip saw he just looked at me right before I go walk on the court he said just make sure for the day over wood you got all this shit cut off your head I said huh he said yeah make sure all this shit is cut off your head I see you tomorrow practice smack me on my eyes said ah man at the time had the flip phone.

Yeah. Call me later on that night. I see the number dialing through the thing, except I even asked. I just went on and got me a haircut. So, all right, so you guys are good that year, but if I remember correctly, wasn't that the year you guys lost,

did you lose the Mello in the tournament? Yeah, we was up about 20 or something. Remember, this is the year for people to remember. This is 2003. Carmelo wins the national championship. But you guys were up, I think it was 17, whatever. 17, yeah. 17.

Up 17 in the first half against Syracuse. You know, you beat Penn. And it wasn't even mellow why we won, because I know he went four for 13 that game. What's crazy about that team was, you guys were terrible down the stretch. Was we? Yeah, yeah.

I'm looking at it right here. You lost to Texas, Cincinnati, Baylor, Oklahoma, Tech, Kansas, Colorado, and then lost to Missouri in the first, by two in the first Big 12th tournament. So you lost, Big 12 tournament game. So you lost, one, two, three. three, four, five, six, seven, eight of your last 11 games.

Eight of the last 11 going into the tournament. Yeah. Then you beat Penn. You beat Penn and you play show. What do you remember about the Syracuse game? See, all I can remember about the Syracuse game is the dude McNamere. Yeah. Bussing Victor William M.

That's tough on Beck. He hit four threes on him. Man, he banged him in his ass-sight. Like, in his ass-sight. Now, for people don't remember that team, okay, you have Andre Williams, who's super talented shot blocker. Who? On your team?

On my team. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Andre. Crazy as hell. Yeah, you had Melvin, Melvin Sanders. Ladies man. Ladies man. Ivan McFarland.

Chunk yard dog. Chunk yard dog. If I had Ivan McFarland, I would have won a national championship. And then you got Victor Williams. Victor Williams, Master of the Midrange, great defender. A human oozy. Okay. He is shooting that ball.

Yes. And you. Okay. your boy Shane Gatsing off the bench Jason Miller, another ladies man Definitely a ladies man Yes Go on 90210 right now

Yes Genova Witherspoon Who could fly Fly He could duck But it didn't get too many dunks No And Franz Stein who

Great dude Gigantic Just gigantic Yes Okay so that's your squad You lost a Keemork Carmello Anthony Jerry McNamara

Keith Duany They started Craig Forth but they played, Billy Edelan came in. And the highlight. Billy Edlin came in and gave it to you guys. The highlight. Who? Adam.

Edelan. He's the point guard. Point guard? Yeah, he didn't hit, he's not a shooter. Like, pull up. He's like a pull-up game. Like, flowed up. Floater.

Well, if those four threes don't go in, back to back to back, the back, the back, we win the game. Because the zone wasn't really, we was kind of fighting the zone to what it was, but that zone all year, Jim Bayheim is his name? Yeah. He was killing everybody with their zone. Like the zone was just nobody stuck defense. They stuck a zone. They won a championship.

Mello didn't kill us that game. And Magna Mare was the highlight. So, all right, there's a legit thought. Do you come back, right? Because all you thought about was going pro. See, that was the biggest myth. I wasn't ready yet. I knew I weren't ready.

No, but most, maybe it's different now. You walk into a locker room now, and a coach will tell you, like, I got 13 NBA players. Like, no, you don't. Like, they all think they're NBA players, right? And you, as you said, 2000, you finished up Darius Miles and guys, your contemporaries, they're going pro.

Yeah. You see all these other dudes going pro. How in your mind, and I know you said, how did you know you weren't ready? Because they had me in the second round. I was knowledgeable enough to know. Like, damn, if I'm in second round, ain't no use to me jumping off.

Like, it ain't no use. Like, so what I did was, I said, every game, I'm a kill. I'm a seek and destroy. If you're the best opponent, I ain't letting you get your points, but I'm getting my points. And that was just how,

that was my remedy to it. Like, I'm going to shut you down, and I'm going to kill you. Like, that's how I trained my thought on the basketball side of the thing. All right, so then Will leaves Arizona. He was pulled a kind of Oklahoma State.

I'm trying to set you up to the story, Tony. Go ahead, go ahead. To I know the story. Go ahead. All right. So, remember, Will Bynum, who is a super-stop. They won the state championship in Illinois.

He goes to Arizona. And mid-year, he's going to transfer. And everybody knows, at the time, you guys, Victor's graduating. Okay? Shane Gasson couldn't play for coach. That wasn't happening, right? You guys needed a point guard. Genova Wetherspoon, not a point guard. He needed a point guard.

Why did he go to Georgia Tech and not come play with this boy? Didn't somebody call and say with something like that you guys were trying to get him to ten? and transfer or something like, what really happened? Because you got a flip phone, so I know he's calling you. Yeah, he was calling the hell of me. But I don't know. I guess the navigation got broke.

I don't know. But for the most part, Will went to Arizona, man. He told us he was coming to Oklahoma. We found out, but look at God. I think I don't know if it was before. Don't give me the line. But we end up getting John Lewis. I know.

I want to get to that in a second. So that's what I said. So, okay, so when we found out that he went to Arizona, he never called us again. He never picked up his phone. He never picked up his phone. And all I can remember was Sips saying, I guess Will made the left turn. He didn't keep straight. I don't know what he was saying, but he was telling me, like, in a sense, like, Will ain't coming.

So I called him, and I'm like, what? He was like, yeah, we've been calling the kid. He ain't asking. Before you know what, I saw it was official. He goes to Georgia Tech. We'll get to that in a second. Okay. So then the Baylor stuff goes down, which is crazy.

Like of all the stories that we kind of sort of forget about is Carlton Dotson Dotson kills his teammate, right? That was tough. First his teammates missing. People were like, where is it? And then they find him and his teammate killed him. Were you at school? Were you at home?

What do you remember about that? because that was like, I mean, that's close to everybody. Man, it was kind of tough because me, I'm a city kid. So, you know, all that fishing and stuff and all that, going in the woods and all that, like, no, we don't, I'm not part of that.

So it kind of, it didn't hit me as hard as it hit other players. But the motive and what he did, that kind of woke me up. Like, for some playing time, Like, that kind of shocked me, but I was thankful that, you know, John Lucas got out of there in time that he did. What's crazy is, so there's another Chicago Guard, help me out, who is supposed to come to OSU and play, and he didn't get eligible.

Okay? So, and you'll remember his name when I tell you in a second. So here's the real way it went down. you didn't get buying him mid-year so you still got to have to have a point guard right so

I believe he had signed and you didn't end up getting him is damn what's his name anyway and then there was a dude

who ended up going to Kentucky transferred from western Kentucky yeah who he ends up he ends up playing Kentucky and then

you guys have no point guard and the Baylor shit goes down and John Lucas, not only everybody transferred, but he got to play right away. Yeah. And then you get the Graham twin. So you show up the next year, and you got Joey and Stevie Graham, who, 6, 7, both NBA players. You got John Lucas, you got yourself.

Like, now you got a squad around you. What do you remember about that year? Well, before John Lucas got that, they was experimenting with Stevie Graham at the point guard. That was definitely not going to work, but they put my boy, John Lucas, in there right in. He just, boom, he, you could tell he was a coach's son. You could tell, like, you could run one play with him one time.

He'd know the play, just like that. And we was going through play. I was like, man, it took me there. Five games to remember all these plays. He learned all the plays in, like, one day. And he was, you was getting the game. He would remember some of the play. And if the plays would break down, he'd go to that pick and roll, go to that right hand.

He was just automatic. And when we were scouting him, every time we played against him in bail him, it was like, yeah, this kid going to, he's kind of nice, but we're going to beat him about 30. He's going to get his points because he shoot a lot of shot. Right. But I was impressed about how he got into a structure set and was able to just show how well his dad taught him a lot of stuff

and his point guard IQ was off the chart. and me and him became the best of friends, like, every since he came to the school. So he hits the game winner against St. Joe's, you go to the final four. Yeah, I loved him for that. I really loved him for that because it was like, if he don't get that ball, we is cooked.

And, man, he's just another one of those, his repetitions. Like, he always tells me, man, like, he's going to make that dog sneeze every time he shoot. He goes, going to go. be wet. So he picked the ball up and made a big play. And man, that's, it's like one of the big shots of the school history for us. And maybe an NCAA history if you think about it.

Okay, so before you get to the game against Georgia Tech and move on. Go ahead. Go ahead. For a guy from Chicago who didn't even, you didn't even think about AAU basketball, let alone in college basketball, right? It was just about, I want to get to the league. It had to be pretty cool. You walk on the floor at the Alamo Dome and you see like 50,000 people. And it was seats that still they could have probably used. It was so big.

But I just was overwhelmed. Like, you know, it's the NBA arena. That's how they're walking into the gym every day. I was mesmerized bad all. But I knew, like, if I got to just beat Georgia Tech, I was thinking about Connecticut. That's why I went wrong.

Like, I wanted to face up with Bing Gordon to show the world. Like, it's me and him. We're the best. two guards in this thing. And what happened was... You got in foul trouble. I got in foul trouble, man.

That didn't fit well with coach neither. He was so upset with me. He was real upset with me. And then did Will score the game winner, or did he pass? I remember the pick and roll that... And that was the thing. Like, we was coming out to pick and roll, low clock, we switch. And this what, oh, man.

And are you guarding Will at time? And my guard, no. John Lucas is. And I'm going to tell you this. I don't think coach ever attest to this or Sean Sutton maybe. But he probably remember. They was trying to put Janava Weatherspoon in for defensive purposes. On John Lucas?

And I spoke up in the huddle. Like, hell no. Let my man rock. Like, I spoke up for John Lucas. And John Lucas, if you hear this, you know I did this this day, too. I spoke up for my man. And said, no, keep him on. Luke got him.

But I'm thinking Joey Graham know the switch on the pick and row. If you're not, if you're going to do on the pick and roll, if we've been doing, at least show up to make him go that way instead of down hill, he went for the hassle. I mean, so listen, so if you're just, you're like, wait a second, what do you guys talk about?

So we'll bind him, the guy who is singularly responsible if you going to Crane High School. Going to Crane High School. Getting back into basketball, period. I mean, really getting back into basketball. Ends up transferring. Everybody thought he was going to Oklahoma State. Instead, he goes to Georgia Tech.

What are the chances you played Georgia Tech in the semifinals to play for a national championship. You guys have won the Big 12, the Big 12 tournament. You guys, you know, you have five pros in your starting lineup, and Stevie Graham became a pro. Actually, Daniel Babick wasn't a pro, but you had pros coming out of the bench. Squad. Right. And Will Bynum has the ball game tied.

and that same dude will bind him, his the game winner. And that was crazy because he could have easily been on our team, man. That you said like that, but he went there. Then it came all the way back full circle to him beating us. And his plan worked, I guess we could say. But, man, until his day, he always pull it out the hat, man. Hey, man, you owe me lunch or lunch on you, man. How?

Because I beat you. I can't get over that. And he always won those championships in the IT as well. IT, yeah, he got those. Those were kind of rigged. Those were kind of rigged. They stacked their team too heavy, man. Every year they got like six pros.

Sometimes they get tricky and flash some guys in. So it's crazy. Yeah, I will point out, though, if that was rigged, though, he had Jared Jack, big old Luke Shensher, right? Who is that super athletic dude that they had? Ismail Muhammad. A bum. Couldn't play, but he could jump.

Man, he wasn't nothing. He wasn't nothing. So, all right, now you get drafted. Oh. Hold on, me. It ain't just because, like, see, you see how you're just ready to skip the part that, that's getting drafted ain't a right.

It's a privilege. You see what I'm saying? Yes. So the hard work you got to put in and get into the league, that it's a combine. It's a prep test. I worked at the time it was 2018. I worked out for all of.

You see what I'm saying? So when the moment you look at that, it's like I don't know which one of these teams are going to draft. So it's like that time is the most stressful time because you're trying to sit back and see how it's going to go. What's going on? Damn, I came back and worked back for teams twice. Which team won't me?

and it kind of discouraged you to go to the green room. So you're not really for sure if you don't know. When you're in a know, you're in a note. I was not in a note. But this was the year my best shape in the rural. Had I not went to the NBA, I wanted to say that I'd have been probably a Euroleague super stocker. I was in that much shape. You see what I'm saying?

Yep. But speaking to Draft Day, before Draft Day, I had my whole family come over to my mother house on the west side, the one I was telling you that she moved. She was still in the same house at that time. still the same house. And I just had the whole, I just remember the whole neighborhood. He and my name get drafted.

Everybody ran out the house at the same time. It's like the whole neighborhood. Like every door, the door, the door, the door, the door. Just ran outside. I ran outside. Jumped on my grandmother's car. She said, Grandma, you ain't driving this no more. We're getting you a new car.

You know, rest of peace. He'll the geron. But it was just, man. Did you get her Cadillac? Man, she passed. Before you get her cattle? I got a Cadillac, yeah. She passed.

They, she actually, no, she didn't pass before I get a Cadillac. She actually got, they told her she couldn't drive no more. She was too old to draft. So. I told her she got a Cadillac and she wouldn't know it wasn't matter. No, I couldn't dig. My mom. My mom would have been born.

Okay. So you get drafted by the Boston Celtics. Yeah. But they also drafted Delante, too. Same, you know, same draft right before you. Right. So you guys show up with the Boston. and Celtics. What do you remember about your

first get there? First day, I remember I didn't dress appropriately at all. No, normally you're supposed to have a suit on. I had a Mitchell and Ness, Larry Bird jersey on. That's appropriate. Yeah, but you know. Dude, a Mitchell, Mitchell Ness at that time was Cracker. But you know, you want to come with a better

image. You want to, you know. If it's a Larry, as long as it was Larry Bird. It wasn't like you showed up with a magic one. And I was thinking, I was, Well, that would have been an issue. Look, I was thinking I was, I was going to get some love from Larry. You know, I ain't never had one conversation with all Larry Bird, man. But, no, man, Al, Jefferson, Delante wears. They had suits.

I just remember us coming in there, man, taking the picture. And just remember leaving, going back home, just training, getting ready for the, um. Do you remember your first NBA game? Well, I remember my first. No, I don't remember my first. What's your first memory of, like, oh, I'm a little. the league. Now that I look back,

probably me tip dunking and Reggie Miller in the playoffs and pushing the ball in the stomach. What was that like? I thought I'd rafts. I was like, yo, I just tip-dunk Reggie Miller. And I was lit. I was like excited. And then it was a rude awakening in the next game.

He had like 30-something, 28-something. He, like, destroyed me. And I was like, yo, that was my. That was my understanding to know. You never talk stuff until the Fat Lady Singh. And he is a Hall of Fame. He made me believe that. So you show up and Antoine Walker's on your team, right?

Mm-hmm. So did he take you under his wing? You got Antoine Walker. No. Did you guys have Gary Payton? Gary Payton, Antoine Walker, Mark Blunt. I mean, not, Wait for the Flans. Man, Mark Blunt, Gary Payton, Antoine Walker.

Yeah, that's a good little hangout team, too. Yeah, and it was one of those. It was one of those things like I was just learning, picking up everything, just trying to see. Ricky Davis? Ricky Davis, yeah. I was just trying to pick up, you know, the dudes and don'ts, you know. But as far as picking up under the wing, I, Paul was the one who pretty much gravitated to. He pretty much put me on his wing because a lot of times he just had me doing a lot of stuff, like going to get the donuts or, you know, just the NBA hazing type stuff.

How did Paul Pierce get shots off? He shouldn't be quick enough to go by anybody. Yeah. Right? He, like, he shouldn't. You know what? I was just telling him this the other day, man. I was like, yo, part of that step back move,

I was like, yo, you kind of perfected it. You made it to what it is for the game today, I believe, because the way he was doing it at the time, He wasn't the fastest. He wasn't, you know, jumping up. Right. He wasn't jumping over, or you couldn't jump over people. Exactly.

And just the way he used his footwork, I believe it was more key than the speed. It was tough. I mean, we played king of the court almost before every practice. And he would always demonstrate that move. And it was like, man, clockwork when he got in the game. It was great carry-off. You know, the thing. that's always impressing about you.

So what's interesting is now when people think of you, they think of Grindfather, they think of the defense. First team. Okay. But when I think of you, I think of, yeah, you had all that stuff. But also, no one could keep you from getting to the rim. When you were in college, nobody keeps you from getting to the rim. Couldn't keep you from the rim.

Great ball handler. Unbelievable finish around the basket. But because, you know, it felt like you, at some point in the NBA, like, hey, I want to make my money by guarding people, not by shooting jump shots and becoming some three-point shooter averaging. How did that mentality flip? I think it flipped after I tore my knee up. Are you second year?

I don't even remember. I think it was probably my third year. Do you remember tearing your knee? Yeah, I remember. I remember the day. Just not eating properly that day. I think I had some, I think I might have ate some hot wings or some, some, some, some, some, some, some bull. I remember not getting enough sleep in my pregame, you know, normally I try to get four hours of sleep before I play in the game.

Wait, four hours for the game? Yeah. You can, you can nap four hours. Yeah. Oh, then you're going out all night. Not pretty much. There's no way, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a year. There's no way you can do a four hour nap.

Yeah, for sure. haven't like Gary Payton that was his life right like Gary would go out and then he put down his beer go to shoot around and then he sleep all day and then he go and hoop and they do it again right that was right but I wasn't like that I was I was more so like when no I was young okay this is my second third year but that wasn't for the regiment that wasn't for the regimen my regimen when I was playing I don't know for real actually when I was playing I didn't I didn't go out as much as I was when I was playing because I was always I was always always trying to get ready for the game before and I wanted to perform.

Yeah. So if I had a, like, a big-time game, for sure, I'm not getting, I'm going to sleep. Right. And the only time I would probably be out is when we got the day off, like, something like that. During the season, you got to be real conservative with that. So you tear your, when you go down. But that specific day, like, I didn't prep well. Like, I didn't prepare well.

Like, I didn't really know, like, if I was doing the right things to be a pro to feed my body right, you know what I'm saying? sleep well, getting vitamins, and, you know, just eating the right stuff. And I just felt they had a lot to do with me getting that injury. And my grandma was at that game. Man. And, um. Did what she say, do you remember what anybody said to you had to her?

Did you know you, did you know you tour it right away? I knew I tore it. I knew I tore. I knew I took as soon as I walked off the court. And I just remember my grandma, you know, telling me I'm going to be all right. And it was right after that when I got the process and getting him. healthy and strengthening my body. I knew that process was tough, and I knew I wasn't going to be able to, you know,

catch it on a break and windmill it with ease, like no more. I knew it was, I had to compensate, and I knew I had to make the best of my athletic ability at the moment. And for the most part, I put all that energy and hustle, I mean, put all that energy and effort into my hustle and just trying to out-compete. So then you go to Memphis. Tell me about going from Boston to Memphis, right? Because it was, like, that's kind of all you had known in the NBA was your first six years in Boston, right?

But I picked up a lot, though. Like, that's the thing. I picked up a lot in Boston. I picked up how to be a pro because at first I was blind, didn't know. Right. I was around a lot of loose vets. You see what I'm saying? Yep.

Like, but then once Kevin, Ray, P., started maturing, and it was like, okay, my proper preparation going to prepare poor performing. You see what I'm saying? So I got to prepare better. I got to eat better. I got to rest early.

I got to study film. I got to, like I picked up those habits in Boston. You know, watching James Posey, watch film before every game. You know,

watching them take the film home, watch it, come back. I got that from James Posey. Like, watching Ticket. Like, he just, I'm talking about getting in a full meditating He moved just calming his self-down so he won't be too hyped.

I saw Ray Allen read books before the game. You know what I'm saying? Just to calm him down to get ready for a game. Sitting contrasts his body, cold tub, hot tub. Faithfully, I watched Paul get a back massage before every game. Coming there, he was more of a loose kind of guy. You know, he could function in that he and the ha-h-h-hound before the games. You know, he kind of got that kind of focus.

and the way he pulled the locker room together. I took all that, man, took it to Memphis and just showed them how a way of winning is, a way of getting ready is. And it helped with other guys, you know what I'm saying? All right, so let's get to the Boston team, the championship team. Championship, what's up? So first, everybody said KG didn't want to go to Boston.

Why they say that? They said Boston's a racist town. They don't want to go to Boston. They said that? That was the rumor. That was the story. I ain't know that. So did he call you?

What you mean? Before he, because he had to okay the trade, right? Did KG, you knew it had no ticket. I mean, I know he only played one year in Chicago. Before he came to Boston. Like, did you know all this stuff was going down? No. Or are you following it like everybody else?

Like, hold on, we just got who and what? No, see, what happened was, let's put it all the way out there. Paul Piers had demanded a trade that year. I tore my leg up and we tanked at you. I think this is the first year tanking I believe. Actually Boston Tank once before.

Boston Tank when Rick Petino was the coach because they were trying to get Tim Duncan. Okay. And instead they drafted. So they got a history of that? Yes. Okay, well I thought it was... It's all right.

Because I'd never heard of it as I was in it. Like, yo, we're trying to lose and it would be evident. And it would be like, yo, Paul Pins got to sit out the last eight minutes. And it was obvious. or so, but getting those guys, I thought I was out of there the first thing smoking.

I saw three of the guys who I got drafted with leave within a month to get Ray Allen. So I already knew, like, yo, I'm up next to get this KG trade. Boom. It ended up happening. They took, I think they ended up taking somebody for the trade. I forgot who they gave up. But I was thankful for being in,

not being in those trades, more so than being in them. What was Rondo like with those dudes? Rondo, he had his own personality. He had that, like, ego. He was ego-tripping. You know, he felt he was better than the respect that they was giving him, and he knew he was better than that from the times where he wasn't playing, because at one point Rondo wasn't even playing for the Celtics.

And we were bad, but, you know, he got his opportunity. and he signed the next year. Actually, we started. The year he didn't play, he got the opportunity. We tanked. They gave him the keys the next year, and I don't think they was really respecting his presence at the time. And I think that kind of bothered him,

and he showed him like, man, I'm a force to be reckoned with won a championship in his third year, you know. If you were to describe what made Kevin Garnett, because at that point, Kevin Garnett, probably the best player in the league, right? Did that, no? Kobe was mamba then, you know? I understand.

So who's better? Because I know, like, look, we're in L.A., I know Kobe. Kobe's unbelievable. I'm saying in that particular, like, it felt to me, I'm not sure KG, I'm not sure he gets the respect

that he deserves. I don't know if that's fair. Because he played in so many bad teams in Minnesota, right? They did that one team that went to the Eastern Conference. finals and then they blew it up i mean dude was seven-footer who could do everything at both ends Kobe for his career better you lived it so i don't know you tell me i don't know if when you

played the NBA finals that year who was the best player in a court Kobe or kg paul one final MVP okay what you mean but also paul wasn't that the year was that the year that paul got got carried off with the wheelchair i think so but all i'm saying is the same That's two different comparisons. I know they're different players. Let's just say. Okay, so what may, what, KG? Specifically KG, his intensity and his level of disrespect to his opponent when he's playing.

He don't want to shake your hand. He don't want to talk to you. He might not even dab you up. Everything he's saying to you is like ferocious, is spit coming out of his mouth. It's like he's like a. He liked that wrestler you don't, like you might not want to wrestle with because the intro is too vicious. And I think he intimidate you before you even get on the court. And actually, when he's actually dominating and putting all that in work, it's like he's unstoppable.

Here's a guy you pick and roll when he can pick and pop. Bam. Here's a guy you pick and roll. He can go get the lob. Boom. Here's a guy you come off to pick and roll. He might rip the guard and be on the front. Bad as break, bad sell.

I told you he could dribble a little bit. Got a little cross over. Might take, you know he's going to do. No, no, listen. Listen, my senior year, Chauncey got hurt at the McDonald's game, so I got to fill in for Chauncey at the Magic's Roundball game. Well, I ain't know that.

So I show up and Paul's on my team. And, you know, it's like Sharif, Abdurahim, Stefan Marbury, I mean, tractor trailer. And all of these Yeah And we had There's all these

I mean all of these guys Are pros And KG wasn't there Because he was studying for the SAT He took the SAT on Saturday Showed up at the banquet Saturday night And the game was Sunday in Detroit

And like you know You practice all week And there's some really Like these are some These are the 25 best players In the country You're like man These guys are really good

KG shows up the next day And Vince Carter was in that game too And Vince Like they didn't even have a dunk contest He's like You're good Vince You got it Ron Mercer

So KG plays in that game and he was this much better than everybody else. Now look, Paul Pierce became equally good as a pro. I'm just telling you, like, in high school, like Kevin Garnett was so much better than anybody had ever seen play high school basketball. It was silly. So I don't know if historically people are going to understand because I do think when we look back at your generation of NBA, everybody's going to say Kobe. Everybody's going to say Tim Duncan, right?

maybe a little bit younger, Dwayne Wade. And we'll get to obviously LeBron. I don't know how Vince Carter is still playing, but that dude still hooping. But I don't know if KG will get the... And Paul, probably because he's on TV, does get the end. He was the finals MVP.

But KG was unbelievable. I mean, he was unbelievable. All right, what about... Tell me about... He says he shit his pants, right? That's his thing now, right? That the real reason that I was getting carried off was because I...

What really happened? happened when he got carried off the court in the NBA final? And I honestly don't know, Doug. I mean, you're from the south side of Chicago. You're watching a dude get wheelchared off, carried off like he's dying. You got all these tough dudes, and he's getting weird. You had to clown him on some level, no? No, I ain't going to even lie.

I had so many pines in my butt, man, from sitting on that bench, man. I thought it was actually my opportunity to go out there and show the rural at Tony out of here. It's one of the death by far the most slept on brothers in the league. That didn't happen. He came back and all I remember was him hitting me on my shoulder so hard. Like, let's go. And I'm like, yo, well, that idea was dead. And then I remember just cheering for my teammates.

And they say he went over there and did what he did. But like the great songs say, Ice Cube. He went in and came out feeling about 10-pound lighter, and he hit five threes, man. What can I say, man? What is that like, though, to be your, and you did play the last three games you played. Yeah. Right?

I got a little burn. You got a little burn. You got a little burn. I think game five, you got the most burn. Yeah. But to win a championship but not get to play that much. Is there, like now when you look back emotionally, do you feel as tied to that team or do you feel less tied to it?

Because I got a buddy. His name is Joe Smith. Joe pitches for the Houston Astros. He was on the Cubs when they won the championship, right? First won in over 100 years. But he didn't pitch in the World Series. And he's got the ring and everything. And he's like, and he has lost with the Astros this year.

And he lost with the Indians before. And he's like, man, I'm just to tell you, it was way better to have lost with the Indians that organization he came up with and actually pitched than to not pitch and win it with. the Cups. What? He's like, I mean, I didn't play.

I didn't put in on it. I think it worked both ways because you got to look at it like this, man. With basketball, you know, it's good for your resume. John Sally got, John Sally got a gang of rings. I understand, but you're also a super, like, it's a, I think it's a great attribute to have. Like, I have a son is 10 years old, and he's playing on my team and another team, and sometimes doesn't play as much.

I'm like, hey, look, dude, you got to be a good teammate in life. Exactly. I was going to piggyback on. But that's a hard thing to do to when you're a super competitive dude who's sitting over there, Paul gets hurt. He's like, this is my moment. And then you don't play. And but to cheer for other people, you are on the team,

but you didn't contribute as much as you wanted. And then as you get older, you got to realize, you got to also everybody's put in position to do what they're going to do, right? And you got to realize what's best for the team is what's best for the team. So the groundwork that you're putting in behind the scene, it's just as important as whoever gets the, you know, the celebration. You get what I'm saying? Yeah.

Because at the end of the day, it ain't no one person win this, we all win. So once you keep that in mind and understand that you was part of the stepping stones and moving forward and getting a goal, you know, you take it with a grain salt. This is on my resume. I'm a champion. You know what I mean? But, hey, like John Soutley, he got like three four rings, you know what I'm saying? But his best memories are, man, the camaraderie I got.

with these guys, the common goal that we all stuck forth and stuck to to go get. You know, I think that, that part, you know, a knowledge you get to gather up and, you know, get to the generation above, I mean, under you. Why couldn't you guys get back there? Why wasn't the same after that? I think we did get back there to the finals. I think just Perk got hurt in 2010. But the very next year, it was like.

Next year, the next year, KG was hurt. KG, he had the municipal. is tearing his knee. He was playing with the he's playing injured. So then you get back to the finals. 2010. Okay. And you play, it went to all the way to game seven.

Game seven. That was it. Shout out to Big Kendra Perkins, man. Had you not got hurt man, we won two. What's interesting about Kendra Perkins is, I think, obviously now he's on TV, so I think people maybe have a greater appreciation for him. But because in Oklahoma City,

like now the game has changed, right? now you don't have, you never put two big guys out on the floor. You almost ever, there's almost no postplay at all. No. But in that era, it's like I tell people all the time. Like the reason that the Thunder wanted two big guys was the Lakers had two big, big guys. The Spurs had two big dudes, right? If you want to get out of the west, you had to have big dudes.

And KP was your enforcer. He was a great screener. And he allowed KG to float around the perimeter and never had, and not have to, and come weak side and block shots, right? It allowed you guys to function, but I think people remember now NBA, like Kendrick Bergen's couldn't play now in the NBA, but in that era he could.

What do you remember about game seven? Game seven, I just remember a lot of attempts. One too many field goals from no one individual. There's a lot of attempts. I remember playing only like six minutes their game. Doc Rivers went with a starter group that whole game. Were they out of gas? Yeah, they was out of gas.

I just remember Paul Gassau having a huge night. Yeah, 17, 17 and something. Meta was nice that night. Meadow was big. That was what I was going to get to. Meta hit two clutch shots, two clutch threes. I remember. And it just sucks that Kendry Perkins couldn't play in that game.

Because had he played, I mean, he was giving Paul Gassau problem. He was giving Biden him them problems, man. He was making, calling a lot of havoc, altering a lot of shots. This is a big force, enforcer like you just said. He was definitely that force. And thinking back, I was like, man, we could have won two out of the – Two out of three years. That wouldn't have been bad.

You mentioned Kobe, and he was Mamba. He's called you the best defender to ever guard him. Right. What's it like to guard Kobe Bryant? Here's a guy. You got to keep your antennas up at all costs. It ain't too many weaknesses. The only thing you can just pray for

when you plan against him is that he don't catch a rhythm because the FGAs are definitely coming at you. But for the most part, man, he's relentless. He never gives up. Like, sometimes he might miss a shot and do a move on a fadeaway side and put just as much emotion

into doing the move again. of head fake you to get you off your balance. You get what I'm saying? Yeah. He set you up in so many ways that's perfect for him to just score or get foul. And I think he's a master of that, and he's never discouraged. And when a guy like that who's put in that many points and won that many championships, call out your name, man, it's definitely flattering.

But for the most part, like I tell everybody, he never had two, three words of conversation with me. See, he told me, this is what he's told me before. I don't know if I've ever said this aloud to anybody on my friends. So I said, he goes, you know I could take Mike, right? I was like, well, like, look, Kobe, everybody thinks you're the best ever and you're in the conversation of the best ever. So why would she's? No, no, no, no.

I could take Mike. I was like, well, how do you know that? He goes, because I'm a believer in full-scale psychological warfare. So he's like, I've studied Mike. He's like, everybody knows I used to try and talk like. Mike and walk like Mike. Like, I know everything about Mike. And I know the button to push to talk trash to him that will make Mike lose his mind. Do you want to know what it is? So Jordan is an outlier in his family. His family was small. His dad was not a tall dude.

His brother, Larry, was, I think, like 5-11, 6 feet tall, right? And Jordan's 6-6. And so whether it was to balance out that Mike got all the attention or whatever, but I've read before and Kobe's a believer that Jordan's, the soft spot for Jordan is that he feels like his dad love Larry Moore. And he's like, that's what I would tell him. I was like, come on, man. He's like, I'm telling you, if you want to get under Mike's skin, talk about Larry and how great Larry was.

And now his dad loved Larry better. And he will lose his mind. So I'm asking you because you said he didn't say he never did the full-scale psychological war on you? I'll tell you what, man. The only thing that I felt funny that Kobe was doing, man, him and Powell will get on the court, right? And the moment I start overplaying the play

or maybe get a deflection on the ball in some type of set that they're running, he will always get to talk in the pal in Spanish to try to, like, mess me up in the head. Like, everybody got to play. No, and it's funny you bring that up because one of the nights I was with him, he actually was in a Mexican restaurant,

and he will flip to bilingual in a second. So now when you got a guy who's probably running, they got a play baby called Triangle Up or Triangle, whatever. Yeah. And then I deflect the ball or whatever, and then he'll be like, whatever he's saying. Don't give me the quote to what he said. But I would know on the next formation that he brought the back door.

You know what I mean? Just little stuff like that. And then it was the only time I heard some words come at his mouth. Everything else, man. He was trying to get the ball in the bucket. What's LeBron like to guard? It wasn't, I didn't, with the defensive background that I had with me with KG, you know, Posey and those guys being in the game,

I felt my perk. I just felt like my job and God and him wasn't as difficult as it was with Kobe Because Like I'm just saying like No I like So my

Okay so my vision If I'm trying to tell somebody The difference too So so LeBron Everything is going downhill He doesn't have He doesn't have as much And this is going to sound

Terrible for people Who don't maybe Understand hooped how much It doesn't feel like he He had as much gain Right Like he would Like he just come

Come off a big Screen roll And if you went underneath He would shoot it, but he'd like to just kind of bully ball you, right? Pretty much, pretty much. And that's what, and if you can look back like, all right, he said, you say, I'm going to piggyback off what you said. Obviously, his post game has gotten better.

Yes. And it still don't look polished. He shoots that weird kind of style. But I'm saying, it don't look polished. No. It don't look like he could get down there. His body type and his skill said you would think he would have some type of Lajuan type little mood.

He don't get none of that. It's all like, I just learned how to do this. Yes. And I'm going to do it the strongest is. I can, and I'm a bully you, and I'm putting it. Right. And he's added that kind of weird fadeaway that he makes, but yes, for the most part, it's kind of mechanical.

That's his game. It's kind of mechanical. Mechanical, because I would agree with that. So now you talk about how I regard him. I always knew he was a bull. So it was like, I felt I was just as strong. God, Doug. I was, like, I really dedicate myself to the way.

So I was always ready for that. He wasn't going to look boy me or post me up and do none of that with those type of post moves. So now I got KG in the picking roll, so I don't have to go over on you because you ain't shooting the ball that great. I catch you at the other, on the other side of the picking roll, and I'm going to hold my forearm. Tiki got my back, if that makes sense.

So that's how I would guard him all the time. In an ISO situation, we live in with the jump shot. Kobe, on the other hand, it wasn't that easy. You get what I'm saying? Yeah. If you put him on the aisle, and if you ain't sending him. the help side defender once he jabs at me

then he might be dunking it over my head didn't Kobe always go right though like how does he go and always go right and still get there and that's what I'm saying it's relentless he's not being told no or he's not taking that side of the defense easy like he's breaking through

your if you're shading them to the left he's breaking through your side that you trying to take him away from so you got a guy who's thinking like that 48 minutes throughout the game like never not being discouraged.

Yeah. I saw a little discouragement in early LeBron years. Yeah, no. There's, LeBron, the Spurs were the ones who they got in, they were getting in his head. They would dare him to take that mid-range jump shot. No, I thought it was the MAP. Was it the Spurs? Well, the Mavs obviously the first one, but I'm saying the Spurs, and he's beating the Spurs

before. Yeah. Okay. But there's been times when they've beaten him with inferior teams because they've dared him to take those jump shots. Exactly. And I think that was probably the word around the league because when we got the scout report to.

play them. They would hate for me to go over the screen because every time I get caught on his hip, he putting pressure on not big, either foul or not big out or getting the hand one because of his strength. He's 6-8-2-something. So it's like, that's going to be a problem. But when you scout around it and when I scouted around Kobe, it's like when I go under on Kobe, he's not shy.

He's hitting it. Or let's say if I'm on an island by myself and he want to fade away, shoot the jump shot. And if he missed three, four in a row, He's going to shoot the next four after that. Right. Which is what he did in game seven, right? He took like 26 shots. 26 shots, six for 25.

But I'm saying that to say, like, if I, the question, if I had to, I think Kobe was a more harder guard. Good cover. All right, who's the toughest cover who doesn't get enough credit? Like, man, this dude was legit, and we don't discuss him nearly enough. Man, man, man. I would, let's see, big name guy, I would say Michael Redd obviously was an all-star. He don't get talked about as much, but he was good in his date.

And I remember just always having fits for him. What about, what about Steph? Like, because it's so much different now. You can't touch a dude, right? You can't. And this, you talk about relentless trying to score every time and from every angle. Steph Curry obviously changed the game in a lot of ways, man. A lot of people thought him coming to the league might be too light, nah.

He changed that narrative. A lot of teams thought, you know, he's injury prone. Change that narrative. It's just he's been proving itself ever since he came to league. But the big thing is, like, everybody thought those are bad shots. Like, no, but he makes him, he makes 50% of them. And as I was going to say, so his whole knock from him coming into the league, for colleges missing out on him and all that I think is a chip on his shoulder until today, man.

He's been proving guys wrong with his size, his craftiness, and his confidence has took us a lot about surprise because it's not a shot he take that we don't believe that's not going in. You know what I mean? Yep. And with that being said, I think it's actually opened up the league. More teams are giving. Last night, a blown call changed a game.

This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending. Opinions are flying. And nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise. Breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines.

We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. SportsSlice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to SportsClyce on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok.

Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kier Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on Earth,

or are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, as we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hardway. Open your free, our Heart Radio app.

Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. What's up, guys? This is Clever Taylor the Fourth. And on my podcast, The Clifford Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker, this linebacker walks up to me. He goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What?

Time out. Quarterback on office blue 42. Hey, rec, my mama want you to wave at her. What? Where's she at? Hey, Miss Park. Listen to the Cliverts show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano, and our podcast, Point Game is about defying the odds. Like LeBron heading into the playoffs without Luca and Austin Reed. And finding ways to win no matter what. He's the smartest player to ever play the game. His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before. And he knows without Luca and Austin Reeves, I got to manipulate the game. We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the playoffs.

I think Joker's going to be exhausted this series because when they don't have Rudy in the lineup, he has to really guard guys like Nas Reid. He has to guard Julius Randall. And then he has to give us everything he gives us on the night-to-night bases on offense. And when IT's friends stop by, like Quentin Richardson, we dive into some playoff history too.

Steve Nass would get that thing. That man, hell get the flying. He running up the court, licking his fingers, why he got the ball, like, After you go through a training camp with that, I said, you figure it out real quick. Get your ass up and down the court, and you're going to get the ball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Guard's freedom to just jack the ball up like that.

And it started from him. What about KD? KD. Well, obviously his name ain't ringing too many bells as being hurt right from him being hurt right now. but him going to Brooklyn, linking up with cavalry. I'm talking about you guarding Kaarring. Because most famously, right, like when you guys got to Western Conference Finals, when you're with Memphis, that was when KD suddenly could score.

I would say KD could score. He always went to school. I'm saying on you in that series. Oh, in that series? Oh, yeah, you know, it's kind of different, Doug, when I get a hold to you, man. But in his defense, man, I always feared him. I always not pretty much feared him, but I would say I always kept my antennas up. Let's just say that.

I always kept my antennas up on him simply because of how deadly he is in the pig and roll, how he can pull up from 40 in transition, his post moves, you know, his fadeaway game, his one leg off the, like he got just so many. many attributes to his game. Yeah, a lot in the bag that you know you have to prepare for, which is hard to scout. However, with him, I had to take the approach of just being physical. Yeah. And I think me doing that is part of the reason why they are not giving these calls out today. Yeah, he was, I mean, people for game five, he was five of 21, right? Five of 21 and you guys being, all right, last thing, you are now synonymous with Memphis, right? Like, you are,

And I was blown away because you had a group of guys. Like, look, Zach had a tough go, his first couple years in the league, you know, right, one year out of school, whatever. But now you go around Memphis and you guys are still on billboards. You guys are legends there, right? He's the grind house and you're the grind father. Yeah. What's it like for you now to go from a dude who couldn't get right, didn't really play basketball his first two years of high school, doesn't have a scholarship offer? kicked out of one junior college, goes to another,

to now, like, you are in the, you're arguably the most known Memphis Grizzly player ever. Like, you're synonymous with the city, the style of play. You're, dare I say, like a Memphis basketball legend. McKiff from the south, east, and west side of Chicago. What's that like to experience? It was definitely an enjoyment. It was definitely a moment, man,

that I would love to relive and do it again, man. It was so much love from the city of Memphis, me coming in the Southern Hospitality, they embraced me with, man. Yeah, I feel like, man. How did they get it? How does Memphis, is it because of the city? Like, it's interesting. Most cities, I don't think, would get you and your style, right?

Like, everybody else looks at a box score, but you can't look at a box score and understand what made you. See, that's the thing. The city, is a blue-collar city. I agree. It's like one of those cities. Dude, pawn chops and bail bonds. That's all you got in downtown. Yeah, you don't have all the big lights, the light lights,

and, you know, the most populous nightclub and, you know, the places that just you got to go. But they got some good, hardworking people, man, and some people who respect the grit and the ground. And just the way of life of Gritting Grant, getting up every day making the way, showing the way, you know, making the way out of a no way. You get what I'm saying? A lot of the times where they saw me on the court, just my whole intro to Memphis, you know, me coming there. I didn't play as much starting out, you know, the first 30-something-hour game, 20-something-a-a-game.

I wasn't playing big minutes, or if I did play, I was down 30, or we was up 30, and I wouldn't cry or be upset, or I wouldn't be saying nothing bad about the coach or whatever or not. I would be the guy in the gym later on that night. When everybody walking out the arena, I'd be walking upstairs to the practice court on shooting on the gun or going to give me a weight room, workout out in. You get what I'm saying? Of course. And I'm using this as a way to have what they say, stay ready, you don't got to get ready.

That was why I used to say. But I was doing that for my own sake, not just for a logo or some cute for the organization. No, this is just how I lived my life, like all through the flick. Like I was just telling you, like wasn't nothing given to me. I had to go figure it out. That's gritting grand. That's what that is. That's starving with nothing and just making something out of nothing.

And the day of that game specifically, I wasn't even prepared to even play Kevin to rent. You're talking about Kevin Durant going five or 21. My first time playing Kevin Durant, I was not ready to play him. I was studying James. hard and he was coming off the bench because I was coming off the bench you see what I'm I'm mentally I mean I prepare mentally and I watch film before games and I like to do this so when I'm out on the court I know what these guys tendencies is right this specific day with KD you know

I didn't I didn't study because I thought Rudy would be sticking and when it was my time to speak on the mic man it was just so much built up in me man and it was that's that was the words that came out of my mouth, my way of life. Awesome stuff. Tony Allen. Hey, man, you've been more than generous with your time? Yeah. I do feel, I don't feel bad at all for it.

What was that second high school coach's name? Dude, didn't have any schools for you? Oh, Long Street. That was my first high school coach. Long Street, Anthony Longstreet, man. If I see them outside, man, hey, man. I'm like splashing with a gatorade, man. Thanks, Tony.

Be sure to catch the live edition of the Doug Gottlieb show weekdays at 3 p.m. Eastern, noon Pacific. thanks to Tony Allen. What an unbelievable personal story, right? And then to be a fly on the wall, that great Celtics, those couple of great Celtics teams, and then to kind of refine yourself in Memphis,

where he wasn't playing originally and then became such a big part of everything they did, including getting to the Western Conference finals. It's remarkable. Thought you'd enjoy his thoughts on LeBron versus Kobe. Also, if you missed, he broke down a couple other guys on my radio show. You can download that podcast.

Anywhere pods are available. But tell a friend, download this stuff. We had great guests on All Hoop Season. So make sure that you tell them about All Ball. Download, subscribe. Rate us. Even if you don't like it, rating us, I think is a good thing. I don't know.

Anyway, enjoy the hoop. Enjoy the holidays. We'll get you next week. I'm Doug Gottlieb. This is All Ball. On January 19th, 2020 for BBDO and AT&T radio. Add ID AXWR 0975000. Spot title, Fiber Lifestyles, Meet the Walkers, BAUC-U-60.

60-second radio. Gorgeous Gaming, stunning streams, unbelievable bandwidth. Welcome to another Lifestyles of Gagillionaires. Meet the 18T fiber customers winning at life with hyper gig speeds. Say hello to the Walkers, a family of not one but four gagillionaires. each living up their gigillionaire life at ludicrous internet speed. First up, Anna Walker. She dominates streaming like the matriarch she is.

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Visit ATT.com slash hypergit for details. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. And nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where sports slice comes in. I'm Timbo. And every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the biggest moments in sports

and giving you the real story behind the headline. And we're going straight to the source, the athletes themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions in the moment, and the stuff nobody gets to hear. Listen to SportsSlice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok.

Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman, help make you funnier. This week, my guest, S&L's Mikey Day and headwriter, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform?

We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, guys? This is Clivert Taylor the 4th. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee.

We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker walks up to me, he goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Time out. Quarterback on office blue 42. Hey, ref, my mama wants you to wave at her. What?

Where's she at? Hey, Ms. Parker. Listen to the Cliverts show on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano. It's our favorite time of the year on our podcast, Point Game, the playoffs. We're digging into the biggest surprises of the season. And I'm looking back on some of my greatest playoff moments.

If we didn't talk ever again, I was crying. You just understood. That's how personal it got. Wow. Then after that game seven, Marquis come until he's like, you know I love you, dog. You know, it's all love. This was just playoffs. This was just basketball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.