The Herd with Colin Cowherd - All Ball - Doug Reflects on the 20th Anniversary of the Oklahoma State Plane Crash with Former Teammate Brian Montanati

Episode Date: January 29, 2021

In this episode, Doug remembers the the 2001 Oklahoma State team plane crash and 10 that died with his former teammate Brian Montanati and how it has impacted how both live their lives going forward. Make sure you download, rate and subscribe here to get the latest All Ball Podcasts! Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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This is All Ball. All basketball all the time. And I'm going to dedicate this episode to the plane crash victims and their families 10 years ago, 20 years ago, sorry, at Oklahoma State.

Yesterday marked the 20th anniversary of it. And my old teammate, Brian Montanati, who's the head coach at Owasso High School in Owasso, Oklahoma, it's a suburb of Tulsa. It's going to join me momentarily. But I, you know, I remember where I was. And as I glean back 20 years, and I try and figure out

what to make of all the emotions and how it shaped my adulthood, how it changed my relationship with my teammates, with my coaches, with my own family, and also I think what it did to my alma mater and my coach. You know, I obviously he was a great man and a great coach and he had the curse of the disease of alcoholism. I mean, I think it's reasonable to think that among the contributing factors to his relapse late in his career had to be the stress with the plane crash, the handling of it, and the fact that they didn't get therapy, which is the first part that I would start with. If you go through a traumatic event, if you feel that you're off.

And I went through this when I was a freshman in Notre Dame. I was homesick. But to the level of where it was, it was depression. You know, I don't know if it was seasonal depression because in South Bend, the sun didn't come out or whether I was just so lonely and depressed because of my proximity to home and the weather being so gray and eventually the team not being that good or my own expectations of myself. But at that point, I should have seen a therapist, no question in my mind.

you know and as athletes were told to just kind of push through and I think that's what coach Sutton and his entire staff did but that's a mistake and and I knew because one of my daughters um a pretty young age exhibited some symptoms of what you'd call like PTSD light sensitivity noise sensitivity and we always thought it was from uh she was a preemie and being in the NICU the neonatal intensive care unit Some of it is just the quarks of who she is. But in trying to understand what she needed, we sat down with a therapist,

and the therapist actually treated me for, what was the most traumatic event in my life at the time? It was the plane crash, which at that time was like maybe 10 years removed or 11 years removed from when it actually happened. I didn't know it was buried so deep down there. So the first thing is that if it's you or somebody close to you,

These are tough times. Tough times. Talk to somebody. Talk to a professional. Sit down and work through things. There is no reason you should not do it. If it's cost, there's plenty of counselors who you can talk to at a minimal cost or at no cost. With your college athlete, a high school athlete, a parent of an athlete, whatever, you see somebody going down a path of depression.

It doesn't have to be anything where they can hurt themselves or others. have them talk to somebody. Having been a survivor and I wasn't on the team or on a plane, I was in Russia at the time. I can tell you it still affected me and still affects me a little bit to this day. Talk to somebody. In terms of the crash itself, and we'll get into this with Brian,

I'm out, I'll never forget those moments, right? You never forget where you are. I'm in Russia. I'm playing for Eurograde and Perm Russia. We get back from Moscow. I wake up from a quick nap and all of a sudden, you know, I was about to unplug the phone and plug in my computer to check the scores of Oklahoma State. It was my first year playing as a professional after college. And it's my dad.

And he shared with me the news. And I was immediately crestfallen, you know, immediately. I didn't know what to do. And, you know, this goes to. the burying the feelings part. But I remember every time I got on a plane and I still, when I get on a plane, I think of them. It wasn't until a year later

because the crash was obviously in January on the 27th. And a year later, almost a year later, Christmas time, Christmas Day, we played a game and I was in Israel. And my wife was sitting

next to me. We're on the bus and we're going from Renana to Haifa, playing in Haifa. Haifa is a beautiful city on the coast of Israel. I think it's like an hour from, from, uh, from, uh, from Hertzalia where, where we live, maybe less than an hour. And I remember we're looking up the coastline and everybody on the bus, we were kind of talking about, you know, I'm Jewish, but still Christmas was always in, in basketball,

you always went home. You always saw family around Christmas time. And about, you know, this is like the first Christmas. Christmas ever, my wife wasn't with her family because the year before we were, I was out of school, but I was playing as professional, but at the time I think I was either in Idaho or was in Oklahoma at the time. I was in the CBA for a minute, but I got cut for the first game. So I must have been, I was in Oklahoma at the time. So this is the first Christmas. She was ever away from home. And immediately I just felt this rush of grief thinking of, here we are feeling bad about not being

able to go home for one Christmas, whereas all those families would never have their husbands or sons or brothers at home for Christmas again. It just hit me, hit me. But a funny thing happened with all of this grief. We've always been, and most college basketball programs are a tight-knit group. We've always, previous generations were good to us and, you know, it was a little different when coach got fired. There's some, some of the guys that played for Travis Ford were good with some. We don't, we don't keep in touch with. We don't know.

But the coach Sutton guys were always pretty close. I'm telling you everything changed at that moment. That, you know, we always say we love each other. Every time we text each other, we call each other. Same thing with coach and with the assistant coaches. And so through this grief, I think we felt what all those guys were. They were special people and they were part of us,

part of this basketball family. And if there is one thing I could share with you about why the, and I think there's been a destruction of college basketball by my brethren in the media, by agents, you know, by some bad actors in business. the one thing that we're missing, as we, or one of the big things kids miss on, is the family that you establish,

the basketball family. Because lots of kids don't have a traditional family unit. And the people that, some guys that look out for you when you're a kid and you're growing to be a basketball player and trying to help you into college, then help you, some of those guys are just good people. But a lot of them aren't.

A lot of them are just, they want, Ultimately, this is their meal ticket. Can the college coach pay them something? Can the agent give them something? Or can they get something from the, can I be your workout guy when you make it? You don't have like a family that looks out for you.

That's what a basketball family is. And the more we destroy the, the very special culture of college basketball by making it cool to transfer, bang, bang, place to place. By making it cool to, The second somebody's going to give you a check to play professional basketball. You leap or just skipping out of professional college basketball profession.

You lose track of all the things you get from your basketball family, all the relationships that are established that help you'll get when you need a job in the real world or a job in the world of basketball. All of those things get minimized because somebody told you you need to chase after that almighty dollar and playing time as quickly as possible. Let's get into it with Brian Montanati. who I want to do a longer form pod with him. We're just going to reminisce a little bit about that day where he was, where I was,

and some of the thoughts and some of the memories of, you know, very poignant memories of that time. Brian was a tremendous player at Oklahoma State. Kind of interesting. He was a junior college transfer from Fordson College. And his first year he didn't play a ton, but he made the game winning free throws played great against Oklahoma, got carried off the court. And he just grew and grew and grew and grew, not physically. He was always 6'10, but grew as a basketball player.

And he became a starter by our senior year, and he was a stud. And then he went and played in Italy for years and retired, sold pharmaceuticals, and is now also a high school coach in Owasso, Oklahoma. Here's my man, Brian Monani. Be sure to catch the live edition of the Doug Gottlieb show weekdays at 3 p.m. Eastern, noon Pacific on Fox Sports Radio in the IHeart Radio app. All right, B, let's, there's a bunch of the things I want to get into with you, but I don't want to bury the lead because at the time of this recording yesterday was the 20th anniversary of the plane crash. Where were you?

Yesterday or 20 years ago? I don't get him to yesterday, bro. I mean, I care, but not really. But not really. 20 years ago. Actually, I was in Tulsa. Actually, I was in Tulsa. I just returned from Italy.

I had an injury. So we were, me and Amanda, we were out eating at T.J.F. Fridays with some friends. Here's what's crazy about it. You want to say this is some crazy shit. Okay? What you think about this? Okay. So I found out I had gotten back from Moscow, playing in Moscow.

And Angie had just come and join me in Russia. here's the craziest part. Do you know where we ate that night? TGI Fridays. I can't make that shit up. Yeah. There was like one, there's like the Dube McDonald's or there was like TGI Fridays.

Yeah. Or there's all kinds of Russians. And Moscow's like really, really nice as you know. But that's nuts. What did you get? What injured? How did you injure?

I broke my leg. Broke my leg playing, man. Broke my tibia. So I had surgery like December 2nd, I believe. and then spent about two weeks in the hospital because they love to lock you up in the hospital over there and not let you leave

after you have a surgery. So we came back to the states, I think the first part of January. So I was actually down and Stillwater a lot around those guys a lot before the accident happened. Okay, so you got done eating it at TGI Fridays. You go back to your apart. or make you turn on TV.

Did somebody call you? It wasn't even leaving T.J.R. Fridays. It came across ESPN and someone in the restaurant came over and told me that there was a plane missing. And didn't know who the people were, had no clue who they were. We were just sitting there eating dinner and they came over to me and they were like, hey, you remember this was back in the day when the cool thing in the state of Oklahoma was Oklahoma State basketball. So we were kind of popular. I had this couple come over to me and they were telling me, you know, hey, there's a plane missing.

So I started watching the news. And the first thing I said to Amanda was like, all right, we got to go home. And then, you know, made some phone calls and everything else and found out what plane it was. So it was kind of one of those deals where we flown on those planes for three years. And we knew the travel party. So you kind of had an idea who was on the plane. Just an eerie, eerie feeling, man. Okay.

So here's my experience. So we landed from Moscow and we got back, you know, like five in the morning. Because the way it worked was you play in Moscow and then you catch like an overnight flight to our city, which is Perm. And the flight left at one and it was a two hour flight or two and a half hour flight, but it was two hours time difference or something. So it was always like five in the morning. So went to sleep, woke up. and I would always get up and plug in my phone jack to my computer. Yeah.

And then I had to the card. The dial up. The dial up internet. And then I would go and go to ESPN.com and check the scores. And I knew they play CU. And I was, you know, I mean, it's our first year out. So I was still super, super into it. And I was literally reaching for the court, reaching for the cord, like fingers on it.

and the phone rings is my dad. And he said, how are you? And I said, I'm fine, I'm going to play last night. One, super tired.

You need to sit down. And I was like, why? And he's like, because there's a plane crash. And I said, where? And he said, Colorado.

And I said, OSU is in Colorado. And he's like, yeah. I said, there's one of the planes that didn't come home. And I, you know, just all of a sudden you get just, like, even actually right now talking about it. I went to do therapy before, you know, like I still, I can feel it like tingling all my body.

Like, you know, and, you know, I remember, you know, he said, I said, you know, I'll let you know exactly what happens. But he's like, I think, you know, coach that's okay. And he said, but there's a couple players there. And so then, you know, I hung up and I called. I can't know who the hell I called. I might have called Denise, Weber, or Alex, because I knew he was in Stillwater,

like he might know. And then we were just watching them. Then I was like, okay, I'm plugging on the internet. And then started coming down. My dad called me back later on in the morning. It was late, really late at night in California. And so you were around them. What was that?

Because I had just gotten it. I had just gotten to Russia a couple weeks before, just signed a contract. She just literally, that was the first day she was over there or whatever. And so they were like, you know, they were very, you know, they were very Russian. You must be played. You can go, but you must be playing. I'm like, I don't even know what to do. Like you just so numb.

What was it like? What do you remember doing next? Like that night did you go to Steadwater? Did you wait for the day? Yeah, we, no, we got home. back to Amanda's parents' house and we went down there. I went to the basketball office and, uh, man, I can't remember what time we got down there,

but everybody was there. And I just, I remember seeing coach and, you know, hugging him and, um, you know, it was crazy, man. I mean, you know, just the whole, the whole emotions of it, the drive down to Stillwater, uh, not knowing exactly who was on the plane. You know, you're trying to call everybody. Like I was trying to call, I tried to call Pat. I tried to call Dan, all those guys.

And those were two guys that had perished on the plane crash. But it was crazy just the whole drive down and, you know, and being around those guys so much. You know, I was around them for probably two or three weeks before this happened. You know, going to practice, you know, just hanging out with the guys, you know, and going to all the games and everything else. And then boom, something like this happens. It's just wild, man.

you know it's funny dan probably gets talked about um the least i mean i you know Nate obviously i was super close with but we were clip dan was my dan lawson was a junior college d2 juco which i don't know that somehow minimizes or whatever yeah all-american right and um you know i i got a i like my memories of dan or uh one who's totally wide i was and he got there. We roomed together on the road my senior year. It was weird that he was my roommate, right? Not that we weren't close,

but I don't remember. We didn't pick and send me to the news with me. So we were playing in Vegas, and it's interesting because I was in Vegas last night calling a game. Now, never forget, we'll get me to play UNLB, and he told me he was like, I don't want to dress.

And I was like, what, what? I mean you don't want to dress. Like, who want to dress? Like, no, I don't want to dress because everybody at home is going to turn in and watch the game. And I'm sitting there in my uniform and I don't get it in. Like, that looks like shit. I was like, dude, like that is so the wrong way to look at this thing. Like, if you don't play it and they red shirt, you're like, who cares?

Like, you've got to come on the trip. You got to dress, dude. They can't. He's like, I'll just say, just have coach say I'm hurt. So he actually called coach. And I was in my coach. I, you know, like, what am I doing? And he had the inevitable tat, like, right?

Like, his job was the guard base. Yeah, he gave the guard base in practice today. And, you know, like, Victor was fucking, and he was awesome on defense. So he would make me look like shit half the time. And, you know, so. But Victor, like, didn't care or whatever. If he got destroyed, it didn't matter. He was coming to the next day.

Like, Dan, he would, I mean. He got migraines, man. Remember? He had migraines. Yeah, he got dung him. Yeah. He got dunked. D-Mase giving them migraines.

That's right. Well, D-Mase basically made Mike Johnson transfer because he kicked his ass in practice so bad. Like every day we're like, oh, my God. Makes you just like, and he was, the other thing my dozen was, he was a great practice player. Like, I hated, I fucking hated practice, you know. And he, but Mace is like, he would go, go hard. Like, dude, take it easy, fella. All the time.

Okay, so. Hey, D-Law was from Michigan. too, man. So we had a, we had a, I remember his recruiting trip. I hosted him and we talked about, you know, we talked about Stillwater and how it was and everything else. And then that summer when I went home, I actually saw him over the summertime because I would go down and play pickup ball every once a while because I got a lot of family that lived down there. And he hung out with him a lot over the summer, you know, before we went back to Stillwater. So it was, you know, and he'd always tell me, you know, was like, man, I felt comfortable coming here because you were from Michigan and it made sense.

And I saw how much you loved it down there and Stillwater and everything else. So it made me feel like it was the place for me. Yeah. That sucks. So I saw them play in Oklahoma City. They played in the city right before I left for, I went up and played in Salina. Yeah. And so they played in Oklahoma City.

And I talked to him after the game. he was just starting to really get it run and feel comfortable. And I mean, I don't know. Like there's just so many levels to it, which sucks. The crazy thing, Doug, is this, too, man, is like, he called me, I think they left on Friday. And he called me Friday asking if I was going to be in town early in the week because, you know, he wanted to hang out and stuff. And that was the, and he left me a voicemail. That was the last time I had talked to him or got a voicemail from him.

You know, it was the same thing with, like, Bill Teagans. I mean, Bill Teagans, I saw him at the last game, and we had a great conversation at Joe's, man, where, you know, the things that he told me, you know, about watching my career and stuff like that. And he's, you know, it's just stuff that I think about every day, man. You know, and I know you this. We all know this. There's not a day goes by that we don't think about those guys.

At some point, whether you're seeing an airplane in the air or just some... in an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds.

I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions,

my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes,

creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the, scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast,

or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tapped Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do a little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at It podcast. I'm Sam Jek.

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We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you for finishing that sentence. Yes. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app,

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Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Learn the hard way and listen now. Thought of those guys popping your head. It's interesting. You point that out. I don't know if I would go, if I was totally honest, it was a day that goes by.

But there are these like snapshots, you know? So like when I lived in Connecticut, my last house to Connecticut, we had a tennis court, and I started playing tennis. And almost every time I would grab a tennis racket

and I would think of Nate because we were, Nate Fleming was a tennis player as well as a basketball player. And a little country club kid, you know. And I don't remember this. We're warming up to Baylor. And they're yelling at all of us. And it's his first light.

And they were barely a super shitty. Yeah. And they're yelling at all of us. They're like, Fleming! Fleming! Why don't you go play tennis? What's going to play tennis? He was going to play tennis.

And we're like laying it up or whatever. He's like, how do they know it? tennis. Like, Nate, it's in the media guide. Oh. Get right to the romance and find the way to wow this Valentine's with 1800flowers.com. From classic roses and bouquets to decadent chocolate-covered berries, gourmet treats, and more. Surprise your Valentine with 1-800flowers.com. Right now, get the 18-stem enchanted rose medley for 399 or upgrade to 24 red roses for

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I'm gonna call Vic. We'll call some of me. I mean, obviously Vic is going to be pretty emotional because he was so close with Dan and he was on that team and all those guys. But, uh, I mean,

here's my favorite Nate story. Okay. And I don't remember, no this. So that year, Dan essentially redshirted, Vic redshirted, Antoine Broxie redshirted, transferred from Minnesota, right? We had Davey who, I don't know, Jason.

Dave was Dave. And we had, who else? We had one other young dude, one other transfer or something, trying to think it was. And so Nate had to take a class on Saturday, morning. Yes. There was a four-hour class was like some history shit. And like they didn't need to be in that history. And we're like, big, why are you in that class? Like coach told me I had to take it. So basically

like they couldn't cheat off him, but he had to make sure like if they were at every class and they went to every study session. And he was like, look, you guys get a, you guys get a B in this class. You do, you'll be good, right? Like you just put in the work. It's four hours. You can get an A. You study with Nate. So he had to be. So it was eight. to noon every Saturday in the fall. That was their schedule. So, I don't like the third game of season, the football team played T-U.

And it was like an 11 o'clock start time. Right. So everybody else, we get together. We hoop a little bit. We go in a locker room and we eat. And we come out and we go to the game. And it's like 1045. And hear those fucking idiots, right?

They're just sitting there like, we just got, we just ditch class and we're ready. Like, yo, what do you? doing. What are you guys doing? Like, ah, that's one class. How's the old guy going to know? We're like, dude, he knows everything. He knows everything. He knows everything. He knows everything. He knows everything. So, so, and then here comes like Nate, like right before King of like, hey, what are you doing? Where are we in class today? Like we weren't there. What were you guys? And he's like, like, what were he talking about? He's like, oh, he, you know, football game. He let us out early, but you guys didn't show up.

So fast forward. Two days later, it's like a Monday and we got practice. And I had a stats test. I'd like, let's say my stats test was like four. And then practice started like 5, 530 or something like that. So I'm like late to practice and I come walking in and you and Mace and Joe and I'm in suitor. Like everybody's walking out. I was like, what I missed?

Like, oh, practice is canceled. What does cancel? happens. Yeah, never, never, never, never happened. I was like, everything, all right? Like, yeah, yeah, go inside. You got to go watch this shit. Go, go, go, go. So I go look inside there. And coaches running those dudes, you know, they'll run them to their ankle smoke. Yeah, I don't know, you know, they had to do six consecutive 17s under a minute. And if anybody fell out, they had to do it again. And Victor Williams is crying. And one of their dudes is throwing up in the bucket all because they didn't do this class.

Right. And like Nate, I mean, because Nate was the best. He was just such an honest dude. But every like, okay, so every time I, every time I talk, have a kid to a 17, tennis makes me think of them. Obviously flying. Like I just flew yesterday. You know, Vegas was a game which, you know, Dady was there. And I started to think about those dudes. You know, the NCAA tournament. I remember our last practice getting to a fight with Nate and me and Mace on the bus. Like, why are we on the bus the day before the biggest game of our lives? What's going on here? But yeah, it's really, really. I remember you remember Nate?

You remember Nate when we were, he always wanted to travel with us, especially our senior year going on road games. Remember, we were getting ready to go to, we're getting ready to go to New Orleans to play LSU. And we were having practice before we flew that afternoon. And Fred, his roommate, his boy. Yeah, yes. catches him with an elbow at the end of practice and busts his nose wide open.

So Nate was freaking out, not because his nose was split wide open, but because he couldn't travel with us to go down in New Orleans. That was his big, he wanted to travel. He wanted to be on the bench and be a part of what we were doing. But I talked to Fred the other day, we brought that up, you know, Nate getting his nose busted and not being able to go on that trip and how devastating he was. Not that his nose got broke,

but he couldn't go to New Orleans with us. But no, man, I mean, you see all the stories and stuff, you know, you think about Will and, you know, he had a brand new baby girl. You know, you think about Brian Launchra and his little kids. You think about Denver. How about his son play basketball in Kansas? Like, that's the coolest shit and the crazy shit.

I called their game. And I went up to match where it's like, oh, I know you. I was like, no, you don't understand. Like, that was my guy. Yeah. Right. So here's my Lewinster. So I give you the Lewinsda story.

I got one for you too. That's hilarious. Okay, good. Good. Good. So, so, um, we had, Brian Farh was our trainer, right? With a big jug head and he goes to Texas. So we get, right?

So we get Lewinstra. And we're like, this fucking guy. mid-major, that comes in. So my senior, I had something going on in my knee, and it was super swollen in the back of my knee. And I was not in a good place over it, because, you know, like, I'm 24. Like, I can't medical redshirt and be, like,

senior citizen playing. And, you know, we were good. And I was, I was ready to hoop. And so he's like, all right, we'll take you to see Doc. So Doc's like, oh, oh, yeah, we got, Got to have surgery. You got to cut it. And I was like, I remember walking out of Doc's office.

And I was like, we got to get a second opinion. He's like, well, he's like, it's like, it's just a scope, dude. It's like if it's a big, it's a meniscus, you'd be out like a week. They'll take it out. You know, if they trim it, it would be six weeks, seven weeks, like then we've got to talk about some other stuff. And I was like, dude, I love Doc. Okay, I love Doc. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

One of my second. Doc is, Doc is it by something. So he took me. He took me to Oklahoma City, and we saw some other guy, and he was just like, actually, it's just a pulled muscle in the back of your knee, and I did some rehab for it, and I wore his little knee sleeve. And he used to, like, every time I would come and see him and say something was hurting, he would go, like, oh, I can just take it to dock, and he could just cut you. It was like a running joke.

But he was one of those guys, and I, I mean, it's kind of like in college basketball, but I don't know if you guys do it high school. everybody talks about okay gs right like our kind of guys right want to recruit the kind of guys that are your kind of guys like he was our kind of guy he was a good good easy hang he like came in and we had all been there three years together but he acted like he had been there kind of kind of with us all right give me your hey hey i don't you'll probably remember this a little bit but he was trying to figure out coach and how to work how to work for coach so you remember how our practices were especially our senior year they were all over

over the place because they were redoing GIA. Right. So we go to the Colvin, we may be in the annex. So one day, it's the beginning of the year. We're over in the Colvin and coach is just killing us. You know, I think we were, it was back in the day. We had two a days and stuff for like the whole weekend. So I remember going to Leinstra and messing with them a little bit saying, hey, you need to go tell coach our legs are dead.

And that we just need a day off or we just need to shoot or whatever. So he's like, are you guys really? feeling that bad? Like, yeah, we're dog tired. This is the first, like, three or four practices that we had in the year. So I remember Luenstra going over. We were getting loose and getting ready to practice. And I remember Luenstra going over to coach. Coach's been on the sideline, and I saw him talking to him. And then I remember coach telling him, you don't tell me how my players feel. You just make sure the water's filled and it's cold and there's ice in the water bottles. And Luenstra just walks away. I remember walking over to him. He said, it didn't go over so well. It was kind of like that deal, though. He was trying to figure out coach. You know, it was his first year there. But he was a great guy, man. Great, great dude, man. Awesome.

You had to filter it through Mace. That was really like, I can talk to Sean maybe a little bit about it. But you had to filter it through, like, Mace had to basically go. Yes, we can't go. That was, that was basically it. See, I like that plane. And you didn't fly out. I don't know you flying on that one.

I flew on it. our jukeyer, I flew on it quite a bit, man. You got bumped up to the big jet a lot. And I would, I would, the problem is, the problem is going to get with coach. You know, I'd never flown a jet, not one time with coach. Never. Me? Me.

Oh, yeah, you were always in the doghouse, though, man. Dude, I never, I played good. I would, I would, I would, I would fly on the on Denver's playing. Dude, I think that was. I remember coming back from A&M, man. Remember this? Our senior year, we played God awful. Yeah, they ran trying to.

Right. And I missed a ton of free throws at the end of the game. So Sean's pissed at me. So it was, this is how it was, man, is when we traveled. You know, we were usually in bands. So if you played bad, everything was calculated to get your shit, get out of the locker room, and be one of the first ones on the van. So when you got to the airport, you could jump out, be the first one on the airplane

so you didn't get stuck by coach or Sean. Oh, well, I thought that list was already made up. I mean, I didn't. No, no. I was always on the doghouse plane. Yeah, yeah. But if you flew on that plane, so I remember one time coming back from A&M, and it was like that, it was like, I got, I was late, the last one off the van,

and I'm thinking, shit, I'm going to have the seat right across from coach and Sean because they, they set next to each other. So I get on the plane, and I'm like, dang, the only seat's open is that seat. And I played like shit. So the whole time, Sean stared at me like this, the whole time. And coach would read the newspaper. And then he would peel the newspaper down and pull his glasses down and just stare at me for like 10, 15 seconds. And then you get off the plane and he gets off the plane and he has one of the managers come up to you and say, hey, coach wants to see you in the office.

And you're like, oh, man, here we go. But going back to Denver's plane, Denver's plane was always, always fun to plan because, you know, we played chess. I remember one year we were on there. I think I was on this plane then when Dady and Webb was playing, they were playing chess. And he'd be like, it was like three moves. It's like three moves.

Yeah. And I'm like, I remember telling Dady, I'm like, the only way that you can do that is if you spent time in the joint, man, you had to spend some time in the joint at some point to be that kind of chess player.

That's next level chess. The only way that you become that kind of next level chest is by being locked up. Well, which I think he had a little issue not long ago. I think he's good now. He's like tattooed tattoos now, right? Yeah. How I run against that.

I got to have him on a pod. I got to have him on a pod. Okay. Our former teammate, Jason Keith, who went on to start him with the University of San Diego, right? That was the only time. But first at San Diego,

they won the WCC tournament. I called the game. Right? And, but he's famous as Big Dady because he has a big daddy tattoo with one D. Has become a tattoo artist. It'll become a tattoo artist. You can't make that shit up.

That's the story that if you were like, if I went to Hollywood and I was like, hey, I want to tell you story here about a guy who's a 6'11 dude who works who's like, looks like American History X, worked on a oil rig before going to college, right? And then goes to college, plays Freddie Sutton, and plays for Brad Holland, wins a league championship, but becomes a tattoo artist after having a misspelled tattoo on his arm. They got covered up with a bunch of scribble. Like nobody believes that story. Hey, it's a real story.

You know this. I don't even know if you know this about Dady, but he holds the record for most consecutive bench presses at the NBA combat at 185 pounds. I mean, he still has that record. Yeah, he has that record.

It's like 20 years ago. How many did it? I think it was like 30 something. You know, he's a big old dude, big strong dude. Yeah, he was a big, he was a big dude. Yeah.

That actually brings me back. That brings me back to Pat. and I GED about Pat because Pat was instrumental in recruiting. And I remember our, I remember Pat's, I remember Dady's recruiting visit, right? We played beach volleyball outside. We were in that tournament. Yeah, we were in that tournament. It was in the spring.

It was awesome. And we would all like, we'd all go get liquored up and then peel off our shirts like it was Baywatch and then go play play. and then play volleyball, and then we go gamble at Pat's house at night. Yeah. Right. So, yes, that's what, that's, that's, that's my memory of that. Of, uh, and, and Pat was the guy who he had that, they had a casino in their garage.

Mm-hmm. Maybe. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know if NCA rules go back 20 years or whatever. I mean, we weren't like fixing games or anything, but we were definitely throwing some night. Play a little blackjack or, you know, a little bit of the blackjack table.

There was the, was there a craps table? No, it wasn't a crafts table, but there was a black deck table. There's a black steak table, and then Joe was over taking to its money on his knees. That's what he was doing, pulling the dice, right? Pat's house was always like the therapy. You could go over there and just kind of get away from coach and relax and everything else. Another thing I started doing, man, is his dad wrote a book about him. I think it was published last year.

But every time around this time of year, man, I sit out. and I'll read that book, and it brings back a ton of memories. You know, I was from Michigan, so I was a diehard Michigan football fan, and Pat was a Nittany Lion, so we'd always have a friendly wager when they played each other. And Pat was so damn competitive that when the Wolverines would win, he wouldn't talk to me for two weeks, you know. Or they won that's retention. You're seeing you. You're that one that's retention.

Yeah, he would literally not say anything at all to me for two weeks. But, you know, and then I remember watching those guys play dunk ball, too, and they would lower the goals. and, you know, they would sit in GIA until midnight playing pickup. Pat was a great guy, though. He was always, always one of those dudes where he never had a bad day, you know. Always had a smile on his face, you know, no matter what was going on. Jared Weiberg. So my memory is of Jared.

He was, so my dad knew his dad, Mick, forever. So there was like, we had kind of been. instant bond, whatever. And he was so slow that he wanted to run with the wings when we ran, because he was like a guard size, right? We ran out at the track and we're like, no, dude, you got wrong with the bigs because you can't make your times. But he fouled the shit out of you guys.

Like he was, he was brutal. He was, and he was like one of those guys who was like, well, what? I'm not telling anybody. I'm just playing hard. Just playing out. Bro, you're going to hurt somebody, man. he was the hammer I think we should have used him as a

fouling weapon you know like whoever we didn't like well we had web we had web but web didn't yeah web yeah what just different types of fouls different types of fouls

but like he kind of his path it's interesting that you're a coach now and like Jared would have been a coach now that was his path that's where he was going without a doubt in my mind I think he would have been a heck of a coach too, man. You know, my memories of Jared are this.

It's not, you know, I mean, obviously him as being one of our teammates, but then the next year when he became a manager, you know how coach would always check class, have those guys go over and check class. So Jared would always do you, and I went to class. I know some of you guys didn't go to class all the time, but I was one of them that went to class all the time. I went to class. I know.

You talked to that. So Jared would always do you a solid. He'd call you at night. You know, remember the back in the day, we didn't have cell phones. So you had your home line and then you had the caller ID. So you could see who was calling. So he would be calling and he would be calling and it was like, Jared Weber would pick up and you're like, all right, what is this about? And you answer the phone.

Like, hey, I want to give you heads up. We're checking class tomorrow. You know, so make sure your ass is in your seat early where you're supposed to be at. He was one of those dudes, man, though, that great guy, man, phenomenal dude, man. I can't say enough about him and his character and his work ethic and everything else. And it's sad that he didn't get the opportunity, you know, to get into coaching and see where he would be at right now 20 years later. The thing thing about like his brother is going to be the AD there, right? Like that's like the whole thing.

And it does speak to the place and how specialness because if, I mean, I don't know, like my brother dies in a plane crash, you know, while working for OSU, it would be, it just be hard. for me to be around the place. But. And then there's, and then there's, and there's Will who, Will was a big help to me because, you know, obviously I got into the media and I used to want, love to do the interview stuff. And I actually texted his daughter.

Because she's like, tell me the shoe story. I was like, okay, so here's the deal. There's nothing big. It was just, we all, we were a Nike program. We all had nice sneakers, you know. Anytime we'd lose, I'd change sneakers, like coach never made, you know, or you'd go and switch them out of Dupree's or something. Yep.

And like we always had, and here's our SID and he wore, I think they were like a new balance. And it was like the same pair for three years and he just liked them. And I was like, somebody get him some sneakers. Like, can we get you? No, no, I like these sneakers. Like go wash them. They look terrible. They look terrible.

But he was the nicest. Like he knew how to, because, you know, I got like media probate. I'd say something. Yeah. I said one time in Sports Illustrated that Kansas guards, our guards are better Kansas guards. Yeah. But so I would get like immediate probation, and he would work coach to be like, coach, I think this is important for the, and it really helped my career, help me become somebody.

What do you remember about Will? Will, man, he was, you remember our last game in GIA? We lost the OU. And we were all pissed off and devastated, like big time, man. And this is the kind of relationship that I think we all had with Will. you know will i remember will was trying to get some of us to go up and talk to the media after the game and that's the last thing you wanted to do you know losing to your arch rival at home on senior night and then go up and and and face the media and answer questions and talk about how great they were

i remember will coming to me he's like hey man i need you i need you you you know i said you don't want to do it but i need you to do me a favor and when he said that even though i didn't want to go but because of the guy that Will was and the way he treated me and the way he treated us and everything else, you know, I didn't feel obligated to it. I felt like he needed someone to go up there and face the music and everything else.

And I was going to do it because of not the way he asked me, but because he was our guy. You know, he was, he's always very caring, very giving. You know, one of those guys, too. He's just like one of those dudes that was always happy, man, never had a bad day. So if you are, so, so here's, here's the question kind of in summation. I want to go back.

We'll do another one and we'll do more kind of about your life and your career. You're a high school coach now and a good one in Oklahoma, right, at Owasso. How 20 years later, and I know you, you think of them oftentimes, but how has it affected you in terms of how you deal with your own players, with your own kids? I have my, like my own thoughts, I'm just, I'm wondering if there's any part of you that, especially this time of year, mentions it to your guys and has a specific way in which you coach, teach, or lead your players. So any team that I've ever coached or been apart knows the history and story of the 10.

Like yesterday, we, you know, a lot of these guys that played for me for multiple years, and there's some new guys, but, you know, there's a video that I have. have that I show and it talks about the guys and everything else. And then I explained how special those guys were and what they meant to our program and what they meant to us individually. And, you know, I coach because, you know, it's in my blood from playing for coach and the experience that I had at OSU. But more importantly, the impact that I feel like I can have on these young men's lives,

you know, and it's not just about being on the court, having success. but it's about off the court. You know, I generally love these guys. You know, and I tell them that and we tell each other that. And that's one thing that, you know, one of the multiple things that I took away from the plane crash is, you know, we have to tell each other all the time that we love each other or our feelings for each other because we don't know, you know, what tomorrow brings. And our teams are, you know, we're really close-knit group.

all of our teams have been. You know, and I got a text from a guy last night, and his son is a junior at OSU right now, and I coached him in sixth grade, and his dad reached out to me and said, I remember you taking those sixth graders down there, and we played in the tournament, and we had to stop by GIA,

because I wanted to tell the story about those guys. You know, I feel like it's important. We made a... Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced game. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all,

embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care which I'll say.

Yep, that's me. Clipper Taylor. the fourth. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment. And the next, we'll talk about

life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me, or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.

And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tapped Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam Jett. And I'm Alex English.

Each episode, we pick a here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because. of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line.

We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you finishing that sentence. Yes. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your

Podcasts. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hard Way with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field

and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch.

Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth? Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person.

Join me, Kear Gaines, as we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, learn the hard way. Open your free, our heart radio app. Search Learn the Hard Way and listen now. We made a bond in a pact, you know, 20 years ago that, you know, we'll always remember. You know, we'll never going to forget.

But I feel like it's important for us that we continually spread the word about those guys and what they meant to us and our programs and also the families of the people that they were associated with. So it's a big deal, man. Like, anytime I get to talk about those guys, I love it, man. You know, I talk about our memories. I talk about our trip to Buffalo, you know, going to Niagara Falls and how wide-eyed and bushy-tailed Nate was and how, you know, he was like the little puppy dog that just wagged his tail around and just licked everything.

He was just all over the place and you'd be tired in practice or something. And he's playing as hard as possible and, you know, fouling like crazy. And, you know, he just, those stories, man. I mean, they live on, you know. And I can't believe it was, it's been 20 years, you know. And, you know, sometimes it feels like it was yesterday. And then sometimes it does feel like it's been 20 years, you know, half of a lifetime. Yeah, you know, it's interesting.

We got to wrap on this. But, you know, there's a lot of talk about all these, these poor kids, you know, they got nobody around. They're just playing games. And I'm like, are you kidding me? That was the best part. It was the best part. everybody else got in the way, right?

The trips in the NCAA tournament and staying in Buffalo, it was a stupid idea. We should have come home. But it was the best. It was the best. You're all from different places of the country. You all love ball. You're fighting for a common cause and, you know, for your own future. Like, I don't know.

I see it completely differently than some of these people. But I can't believe it was 20 years ago. But you are doing a great job. I appreciate you, my man. I'll spread the word. All right, let's catch up again soon. I do want to talk about your son and about raising kind of phenom who has, he's like, you were, no, but you were under the radar.

Like, nobody ever heard you. Right. And now everybody's heard. Dude is six, dude is six, six four right now. He's 13. He's,

he's a, he's different, man. It's going to be fun. Oh, don't, don't do that he's built different. I have, no,

I just said he's different. I know, I know, but my kids are, I'm built different. No, no, no. He's got a lot of, he's got a lot of work to do, but it's going to be fun the next few years with him.

Hey, man. I love you. Thanks, you're joining. Love you too, brother. Later, man. Thanks, shit. Get right to the romance and find the way to wow this valentines with 1,800flowers.com.

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Trees? Sure. Know what else grows in the forest? Our imagination, our sense of wonder, and our family bonds grow too. Because when we disconnect from this and connect with this, we reconnect with each other, we reconnect with each other. The forest is closer than you think. Find a forest near you and start exploring at Discovertheforest.org.

Brought to you by the United States Forest Service and the Ad Council. If I could be you and you could be me for just one hour. If you could find a way to get inside. Each other's mind. Walk a mile in my shoes. Walk a mile in my shoes.

Walk a mile in my shoes. We've all felt left out. And for some, that feeling lasts more than a moment. We can change that. Learn how it belonging begins with us.org, brought to you by the ad council. Be sure to catch the live edition of the Doug Gottlieb show weekdays at 3 p.m. Eastern, noon Pacific. So look, on this pod, we've talked about a million things. And we'll tell you more stories that you may relate to. But it was 20 years ago. And I know how much it affected the sport. because I was in Russia at the time and the sports world stopped.

And even to this day, when it comes up, when it's brought up, you'll have a referee. Stop by. I was at the Missouri game right afterwards. It was incredibly emotional. I called the Oklahoma game when Kelvin Samson, who was hated as the rival coach, came out with the T-shirt with all the men's names on it. You look up in the rafters and you see that number 10. There's no numbers that are retired Oklahoma State except the number 10.

and that's why. Now you know why. I really do appreciate you listening to this pod. I hope you related to it. And I hope you can hug your loved ones. And if you're a coach, you hug your kids. And if you're a player, you tell your teammates and your coaches how much you care about them. I'm Doug Gottlieb.

This is all ball. Get right to the romance and find the way to wow this Valentine's with 1-800 flowers.com. From classic roses and bouquets to decadent chocolate-covered berries, gourmet treats, and more. Surprise your Valentine. with 1800flowers.com. Right now, get the 18-stem Enchanted Rose Medley for $3999, or upgrade to 24 red roses for $10 more.

Go to 1,800flowers.com slash tune in. That's 1,800flowers.com slash tune in. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest,

S&L's Mikey Day and headwriter Streeter Seidel help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged.

It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast is. Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds.

I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me.

Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw unfilled conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to The Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok podcast network on TikTok. On the Look Back at a podcast. From 1979, that was a big moment for me. 84's big to me. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a year, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it with our friends,

fellow comedians, and favorite authors. Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s. It was a wild year. It was a wild year. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast.

Guaranteed Human.