The Herd with Colin Cowherd - All Ball - Dunk Contest Controversy; LeBron MVP Case; Wizards Rookie Garrison Matthews On Making It From Lipscomb To The NBA

Episode Date: February 19, 2020

This week, Gottlieb looks back at the NBA Dunk Contest Controversy, and explains why LeBron should be named MVP. His guest this week is Wizards rookie Garrison Matthews, who discusses his path from small school Lipscomb to the NBA, leading them to the NCAA Tourney for the first time, how he improved his game to get on the NBA radar, going from undrafted to making Washington's opening night roster, and how he plans to stick in the league. Make sure you download, rate and subscribe here to get the latest All Ball Podcasts! Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Go to 1800flowers.com slash tune in. That's 1800flowers.com slash tune in. Hey, welcome in. It's Doug Gottlieb, and you are listening to the all ball podcast, all basketball all the time. And, man, do we have a good pod for you. We're coming off an unbelievable all-star weekend. end. I'm not really an all-star guy, but I will say Derek Jones and Aaron Gordon, you know, this kind of plays into what Steve Kerr has said, which is like, look, no disrespect to the old guard, but these young guys are pretty amazing. And they get better and better. Like, we're not devolving as human beings. We're evolving. And so it stands the reason these guys are dunking and doing dugs we never thought possible. But we come off an all-star weekend where the guys played hard

the fourth quarter. It was a fun game. And, you know, I'll give you one thought on LeBron in a second. Let me just do this on the dunk contest, which I don't think anybody else has said. You know, one of the great things about the Jordan dunk era was, I don't remember him missing dunks in dunk contests. It used to be super punitive. You miss a dunk. You know, you miss one. You can survive.

You miss two. You're essentially out of the competition. He didn't miss. So maybe that's why they didn't try some of these things, or maybe they couldn't pull them off. But as much as we're searching for why Derek Jones and, I don't know, tie, like my own feelings have been in dunk contests, which don't really matter. Why do we have to give nines and tens all the time?

These guys should be judged on a different scale. They're the best dunkers in the world. And sometimes an average dunk is a five. You know, you do that. And now a sudden you have more leeway for true scoring. Because not every dunk is a 10. It's just not. a 10 should be the perfect dunk.

A 10 should be untoppable. But when a guy gets multiple tens, you know, or 40s or 50s or whatever, it shows you that people are, they think perfection has been achieved again and again and again. And life tells us that's not actually the case. The second part is that you can't get away from the fact that Aaron Gordon missed some of these dunks. And when you miss dunks, it leaves an indelible impression in your brain that you're not as good as the other guy. so I don't know who should have won or if he got robbed or whatever I do know that when I think back to Jordan's era

you couldn't miss a big dunk and he never seemed to miss a big dunk now as for LeBron and I said this on first things first the TV show and somehow it's got I think he should be the MVP of the league because of all the little things he's done the leadership that he's shown the fact that for the most part hasn't been much drama he's got along and bought into what Frank Vogel wants to do all that stuff is great I also think that when you watch in the All-Star game,

like Janus is just too long in athletic form. When you watch in the regular season, same thing. When you watch him guard Kauai Leonard, same thing. And so when I tell people like, I don't know if he's a top five player anymore, like, well, how can he be the MVP? Well, he doesn't have it every night. He can't bring it every night.

He doesn't have, and against the best of the best, like he kind of have to hide him a little bit defensively. And offensively, he's not always able to do what he wants to do. he's still awesome. And I think you can be the most valuable and not be the best. Oftentimes we give the MVP award to whoever the best player is. James Hardin is a better offensive player. He's in the prime of his career.

He's averaging 35 points. He's like top five and assists. He's unbelievable. Now, he doesn't play defense as hard or as often as LeBron, but let's not act like LeBron is locking dudes up as soon as they cross middle court, mid court. So I just, you look around the NBA. and I think more people than exist on Twitter.

Twitter doesn't really understand nuance. I think he's having a great year. The free throw shooting is weird. It's limited in terms of his scoring. And they haven't always been the best against the best competition, most notably the Bucks and the Clippers. But they've dominated everybody else, been consistent, and he's a huge reason why.

His leadership is voiced defensively. And believe it or not, he actually has the highest plus-minus defensive range. and the highest win, win shares of anybody in the NBA. He does a lot of little things. That's why I'd make him the MVP. All right, let's welcome in our guest. He's a great story, great story.

He goes to Lipscomb University, takes them to an NCAA term, in their first NCAA term in appearance, all-time leading score. Wait to hear how he grew up. You'd think he grew up, ball his life guide. Couldn't be further from the truth. He ends up signing a 2A after Summer League with the Wizards. Making it with the Wizards actually had 28 in an NBA game. And during All-Star break, we got a chance to catch up with Wizards rookie Garrison Matthews.

Be sure to catch the live edition of the Doug Gottlieb show weekdays at 3 p.m. Eastern, noon Pacific, on Fox Sports Radio and the IHeart Radio app. All right, so Garrison, let's start at the not the, not the, very beginning, not like birth, okay? But you played high school in Franklin, Tennessee. Is that where you grew up? Yeah, it is. I was there when I was like sixth grade or so.

Okay, so that's not where you grew up. Where did you live before Franklin, Tennessee? I was in Louisville, Kentucky before there. Why did you guys move? I don't know. Most of our families here, I guess, and job opportunities, I guess, for my parents. I don't really know, to be honest with you.

You have no idea why your parents moved? You're like in fifth grade. They're like, we're moving to Franklin, Tennessee. How far is Franklin from Louisville? About three hours. I mean, I knew my mom always wanted to live there. And I guess they just chose to move, you know. Yeah, Franklin's a really cool town like 20 miles from Nashville, right?

It's like a very, very nice. And you were in the hard Scrabble streets of Louisville fighting for your life and your mom wanted suburban life for you. Is that accurate? That's it. All right. So you were, you play football. and you played hoop.

Like, you're in sixth grade, you moved to Franklin. Were you a football guy or basketball guy at that time? I was a football. Quarterback? Definitely football. I did play quarterback for six and maybe a little bit of seventh grade, and then I transitioned to wide receiver. Were you always tall, or did you go late?

When did you grow? I was always kind of a tallest one in my grade a little bit, or at least up there, probably around fifth or six or six. grade and I mean everybody kind of knew that I was playing basketball just because of my height, but football was definitely probably my main sport growing up. So you show up at high school, Franklin High School, you're a ninth grader. You're a ninth grader. At that time, you were a football player who played basketball or what?

Yeah, that's it. That's the way I would say it, I guess. So how did it happen? Like, when did the switch flip? lip, if you will. Well, I mean, I always just loved football. That was my first passion. It was just always, I mean, Friday night lights, man.

There's really nothing much like it. But I was always more talented, I guess, in basketball. And I had some FCS look in football, but no offers. I broke my collar up in my junior year. And then I had a few offers going into my senior year for basketball. So that's why I knew I was going to do something in college with basketball, but, I mean, obviously, still football was my first true love. And when you broke your collarbone, what were you going across the middle

and you got smashed? Were you diving for a ball? How did you break your collarbone? I was diving in the end of them for a ball. Didn't touch anybody. Just landed on it alone. Did you catch the football? I did.

At least I caught it. That's it. All right, good. So the legend, the legend it remains is like, you know, that boy, okay, he's tough. He broke his collarbone, but he caught the ball. That's the big thing. Were you guys any good at football? We were.

You know, it was kind of frustrating. We always got kicked out first round playoffs, but we had like 8 and 4 or 8 and 3 and 9 and 2 records when my junior and senior year. And my sophomore year, we weren't very good. But junior and junior, senior, we were pretty good. So, like, football guys always came in. You know, you come in mid-year, and like the basketball,

you're almost like weightlifting guys, where it looks weird dribbling the basketball. It takes a while to get kind of the touch of shooting. How did you maintain your skill while playing football? I didn't really, to be honest. I didn't really work on my basketball game much out of the season. To be honest with you, I remember coming in the season,

going, like, starting out like 80 for 17, 0 for 20 from the three-point line when I first got back and just being horrible and being like, how do I even have a D-1 offer right now to play basketball? So, I mean, it took a little while to get back into it for sure. So, but then, but you were, I mean, how good were you in high school with basketball? I mean, I would say average. I was like at maybe average 12 points, maybe five boards, something like that. It wasn't, wasn't anything special, that's for sure.

So how did, what was the recruiting process like that took you to Lipscomb? It was super slow. I had a, I had a pretty good AAU circuit going into my senior year. That's really when all my offers came. actually only had like three or four deal an offer, so I say all. But I had a pretty good A.U. Circuit or a couple tournaments. And Coach Alexander, he knew who I was just from the area.

But they, and they had offered a kid before me, and they told me that if he doesn't commit, they'll offer me. So kind of, I was really their second choice. But that's kind of how it went for me. I had USC upstate and UMass Lowell and Austin P were the other ones that I got too. That's interesting. So they offered some other kid.

Who's the other kid that they offered? His name's Ethan Stair. I think he went on to play at Mercer. Oh, okay. Yeah, so like when you go into the, you got to do the Michael Jordan thing, right? When you go into Lipscomb Hall of Fame because he scored like almost 2,500 points,

you need to invite Ethan and then like point him out. Like, hey, see, here's Ethan, Ethan Stare. Okay. he was actually out for the scholarship before me, and if not for him turning it down, I wouldn't have been here. I know, so I need to thank him. Yeah, yeah.

Okay, so you show up, so Lipscomb is in Nashville, right? So it's, I mean, it's 20 minutes from home. You finish up, how well did you guys do your senior year in high school, Franklin, basketball? We lost in the region, semis, I don't know,

maybe a little over five. 500 record. Like, we, we definitely underperformed for sure. I mean, we had all of our, like, our starting lineup was like 6-4, 6-5 plus on every guy, maybe 6-3 out of our point. I was like 6-3, but we're a tall group and we all played football. So, like, it was kind of a whole bunch. We were all, like, best friends and, but definitely underperformed for sure. Okay, so wait, so who are these? Give me, give me the names of these guys. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened.

That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise. Breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down,

give you context and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports Slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to Sports Slice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slic Life 12 and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hard Way with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kier Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations.

with so many incredible guests. I'm talking. Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough.

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with Tom Bogart and Tabramos on the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, wherever you get your podcast. You're going to download this podcast. What was your crew in high school, a bunch of meathead football players that just happened to play basketball as who? Yeah, so obviously they're more,

but my core group would be like Carson Young, Jackson Swab, Buzz, Buzz, Booth Page, Joe Krishlow, and Zach Muir, and we're all, I mean, still, like, stay in great contact and our best friends since. Yeah, and are they, like, sleeping in your apartment now? Are they living the life through you? Do they believe they're in the NBA as well? Well, actually, Zach, he, Zach, he stayed with me for the first, because he got an internship with Navy football. And he stayed with me here for the first, I don't know, four or five months. And he went back and forth from here to Navy and worked with them, but now he's back in training.

But those guys, they've got jobs at Franklin, and one of them's doing grad school. Actually, Joe Critchlow, he's a quarterback at BYU right now, and I think he's going to, I think he entered the graduate portal transfer. So they're all kind of doing their own thing. Get right to the romance and find the way to wow this Valentine's with 1-800flowers.com. From classic roses and bouquets to decadent chocolate-covered berries, gourmet treats, and more. Surprise your Valentine with 1800flowers.com. Right now, get the 18-stem enchanted rose medley for $3999,

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Like making sure your kids are buckled correctly in the right seat for their age and size. Learn more at NHTSA.gov slash the right seat. Visit NHTSA.com. Slash the right seat. Brought to you by Nitzha and the Ad Council. That's pretty cool group. Although, as you point out, you're underachievers in football and basketball. So they may think that they're really cool.

Only you have achieved greatness. the rest of them been underachievers their whole life. By the way, Ethan Stair had a good career at Mercer. He averaged 15 a half his senior year. I mean, he didn't score, you know, 2,500 points or whatever and make it to the NBA. He wasn't a nice little run, so it wasn't like he was a complete, you know, slob that Coach Alexander had slotted ahead of you at the time.

Yeah, to be honest with you, I didn't really look much of his career, but I always gave him crap about offering him over me. That's funny. Okay, so you show up at Lipscomb as a freshman. What's your first memory? Remember, as you told us, like you're more football player. Like, I don't try this basketball thing. It played some of A.U.

12 and 5th. You know, like, okay, so what was your first memory of Lipscomb? My first memory of Lipscomb was hating it when I first got there. I always was the last one picked and pick up. I probably wouldn't even play the first game. I'd have to be picking the loser squad to get on the court. you know, I was, they knew I wasn't very good when I first came in, which I wasn't. You could tell when, you can tell when guys mess with you or not, like, if they like you or think you're good or whatever.

And I was definitely not one of those guys. That was my first impression of it. So I remember talking my mom just feeling like, now I don't think I belong here. And it was definitely a test, test to my faith towards myself and all that. Okay, so, like, how much did you play your freshman year? I didn't play much at first until midway through last session, and you are best player towards ACO, and I kind of got sprung in there to where I started playing,

I don't know, 20, 25 minutes a game or so. Who is your best player? His name is Josh Williams. Okay, so Josh gets hurt. You're over there pumping your fist on the bench. Like, yes, kidding. Okay, he gets hurt. This is 2016.

By the way, I'm cheating. I'm looking at all your staff. You end up like kind of underselling it, you know. You average 10 in only 20 minutes and only 20 minutes, right? So, I mean, like you came in starting to kind of get buckets right away. Your first game you started was against who? Tennessee Tech, I believe. What was that like?

Do you ask what it was like? Yeah, what was it like? What do you remember about it? I mean, it was crazy. I remember it was, it had been my best game. so far in my career there for sure. It was nice that my best game was the first game I started. It kind of solidified my spot from there on out.

Well, let's see here. Tennessee Tech. So is that the, is that the one you, no, that's, let's see, where is it, Tennessee Tech? It was at Tennessee Tech? No, it was at home. Is it home? You guys lost by three? I guess so.

I don't remember. Yeah, December 5th, 2015. You guys lost by, you guys lost by three. to Tennessee Tech. Do you want to know more? Do you want to know more about how you did? I get, I think I remember I had like 16 or something like that. You had 16. How about that? It's pretty good. You had 16. You hit four threes. Okay. You go from like, I don't know if I belong here to I can do this. I hit I hit four threes. I played played 18 minutes. But at that point in time though, okay, you guys, you were not good.

That was, you lost, what, four in a row, then one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight. You lost, who, was it, 13 out of 14 games before kind of turning it around once you got into A-sun play. Yeah. You guys, as you said, you hadn't been great in high school, but you were never bad. How did, what was losing like for you? I hated it, but it was almost like, to be honest with you, like, I hated it so much, but it was almost like, I was used to it, you know? And I was just trying to find a way to just completely reverse that.

Because in football, I mean, in basketball, we underachieved in high school. When we were good players, we should have won more. College, I get to college. We're underperforming, well, to be honest with you, I don't really know, like, if we should have overperformed whatever. But it was just, it was almost like it was, I couldn't break that cycle of losing it, but I hated it more than anything in the world. Your freshman year gets done.

And I read something about, I remember when you were in college, you said something about your freshman year gets done. And what did you do in between your freshman and sophomore year to kind of change your game, to evolve and take that next step? Something just post-Rob Marbury, we were like, you know what, we're going to change our diets, we're going to change the way we train, we're going to change the way we think, the way we work out, whatever it may be. We change everything. And so that was my mindset going to my sophomore year. and we kind of did it together, but I just completely changed the way I worked out. It completely went from partying doing that stuff and really focusing on my game because I realized I could actually maybe do something.

And then somebody came into my life that knew my brother that started working with me and working me out and completely changed my name. His name is Jordan Roman. Completely changed the way I worked out and helped me out a ton, man. and that's really when everything kind of turned. All right, let's start with your diet. What did your diet become? I completely cut out, or I tried to completely cut out sugar, obviously, you know, you

have your days, but I try to eat like no sugar at all. I eat a lot more protein, cut down my carbs, all that stuff. Like, I would eat pretty much anything before then. I'd go to Bass and Robbins all the time. I'd go eat, I'd go to Publix and get those like Oreo pies or whatever. And I just eat that crap all the time. And I just completely cut that out, all that stuff. And I stopped drinking calories.

So all I would have is water and coffee. Black coffee, that's it. So that really, really was a huge help. And you go from 10 a game to 20 a game as a sophomore. Now, I should point out, because I'll be that guy. And, you know, you guys are an A-Sund team. You started out playing, I mean, it wasn't great, right? you did beat Tennessee Tech.

You scored 104 points. But outside of that, I think you'd let me see. You're like one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight. You lost eight of your first nine division one games. You beat like Piedmont and some other non-D-1 or whatever. Smack by Cincinnati. And then, of course, you lost by two points to Belmont. I want to get to Belmont in that rivalry out.

But, you know, it's how close those schools are in a second. But you do all these things, and yet for a while there, before you got to A-sun play, you guys are still losing. What was that like mentally to be, you're having personal success, but damn, we're still losing these games? In locker room with our team and our head coach, we're kind of having a couple of Jesus meeting, and we're all just super pissed off, just why are we still losing? And I remember, like, saying in front of everybody, I'm just like, yo, this is embarrassing. Like, I walk around campus, just embarrassed that this is happening. And coached him liked that too much.

even when I graduated, he remembers him saying that, that this is embarrassing. Really, to be honest, to you, it felt like everything kind of turned from that point on. We started winning more, and something just clicked. I don't know. Yeah, you guys won six in a row. Twice. You had two six-game winning streaks, which you hadn't had in Division I basketball before.

All right, so you get done. You lose to North Florida in the A-Sun tournament. And you guys won 20 games. I think that's the first time Division I basketball. you guys won 20 games. You had personal success. So tell me about Jordan's workouts. How were Jordan's workouts different than anything you had done?

To be fair, I worked out outside of the season on my craft. And he kind of taught me that, like, you're not going to be really become what you want unless you really work out. So to be honest with you, man, I come out of the workouts, just drenched and sweat, just sore, not able to walk. I don't do, like, not just set shots, but game like reps, you come on screen, this and that. And it's a conditioning workout too. It's not just any sort of shooting workout. It's anything you can think just going at 110% as hard as you can, the whole workout. And that's really what his work.

Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending. Opinions are flying. And nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise.

Breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the head. headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaders to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to Sports Slice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slic Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok.

Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kier Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking. Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing.

And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth. Or are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro.

Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, is we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast. learn the hard way. Open your free iHeartRadio app.

Search Learn the hard way and listen now. What's up guys? This is Clever Taylor the 4th. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker walks up to me.

He goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Time out. Quarterback on office, Blue, 42. Dude. Hey, my mama want you to weigh better. What? Where's she at? Hey, Miss Parker.

Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Hey, I'm Deanna Maria Riva, actress, mother, lover, and a Gen. X woman walking through life one hot flash and hormonal crying jag at a time. You ladies know what I mean. I'll bet you a perimenopausal chin here you do. So let's talk about it.

Join me on my new podcast. How hard can it be with Deanna Maria. where I call on my Gen X squads from Ohio to Hollywood as we navigate midlife's most fantastic BS. All of a sudden, I'd had hanginess happening on my own. I was like, what the hell is that? I was married when I had her, so I didn't even consider how empty that nest was going to be. Mood swings, night sweats, fupas, sex drive. Wait, what sex?

Dating at 45. How can it be getting naked at 50 with a new guy? That one's kind of hard. Well, that's lighting. They say we can't polish a turd, but we're sure going to try. So let's get blunt with laughs, tears, or tears of laughter, and dive into it, unfiltered and unbothered and ask, How Hard Can It Be? I cannot believe I'm about to say this out loud in public.

Listen to How Hard Can It Be with Diana Maria Riva as part of My Cultura Podcast Network available on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. You, um, and I'm sure you came out by like, man, it's a basket robin to be good right about now. And it wasn't. Exactly. What was Casey like to play for?

He knows guys. I mean, really knows what he's. He's got to be one of the smartest guys I've been around. But he's also like a super, super supportive coach. He's not one of those guys that's going to sit here in dog coaching. He'll definitely tell you what you're doing wrong and correct you and get on to you. But he does in a constructive way where you learn from it. And he's always been super, super supportive of me.

And, I mean, I still keep in touch them. We've got a great relationship. But, I mean, I wouldn't be where I'm at in my career if it wasn't for him, that's for sure. Okay, that year, so you come back for your junior year, right? Now you got, you know, you got it across your chest. You're 20 a game guy. And in the, like, sixth game of the year, you play Belmont. For people who don't know the Belmont Lipscomb rivalry, what is that game like?

It's insane. I mean, it may be one of our biggest games all year, to be honest with you. it's uh you know you don't you go into it not really liking those guys they don't really like you you don't really mess with them outside of that game um and i mean it's it's definitely a huge like prideful game for sure and obviously i went i don't know like two and six against them maybe yeah but those the the junior year you swept him you beat him twice and yeah well so the first game you beat him you scored 48 in the second half as a team you score you personally scored 22 six boards.

You did have an assist. That might have been an air ball. That might not actually have been assist. Probably was. Probably was. What was the feeling? What was the feeling like of going into Belmont and beating Belmont? It was one of the craziest feelings in the world just because when Lipscomb hadn't

beaten Belmont, I think it was like 11 years or something like that, or maybe 11 years or whatever it was. But it was just feeling to be able to do it just for that school. and I mean you wouldn't really be able to like tell unless you were there just how Lipscomb kind of erupted from that from those winds and how it really like kind of brought pride back to the school. I would guess it was it was a what's what's Lipscomb like as a school? It's a very it's a small Christian college. It's it's a it's a it personally for me is a great fit for me being my faith being very important to me. I'm a Christian, and that's one of the biggest things in my life.

It was great for me to be grounded there and that. And it's just the perfect fit. It's a small Christian school. There's only about 4,000 students there undergrad. I mean, right in Nashville, so, I mean, he can't really beat that either. How far from Belmont? Not even two miles. That's crazy.

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Look through your children's eyes to see the true magic of a forest. It's a storybook world for them. You look and see a tree. They see the wrinkled face of a wizard with arms outstretched to the sky. They see treasure and pebbles. They see

a windy path that could lead to adventure. And they see you. Their fearless guide through this fascinating world. Find a forest near you and start exploring at Discovertheforest.org. Brought to you by the United States Forest Service and the ad council. Look through your children's

eyes to see the true magic of a forest. It's a storybook world for them. You look and see a tree. They see the wrinkled face of a wizard with arms outstretched to the sky. They see treasure and pebbles. They see a windy path that could lead to adventure. And they see you. Their fearless guide is this fascinating world. Find a forest near you and start exploring at Discovertheforest.org. Brought to you by the United States Forest Service and the ad council. Okay, fast forward. You play Florida Gulf Coast. at Florida Gulf Coast, right, at Alika Arena, at Florida Gulf Coast to go to the NCAA tournament.

I've always wondered, you know, like, what is that pressure like? It's not just that you're on the team that has to win to play in the tournament, but you're the guy who has to perform in order for your team to win and get to the tournament. What was that experience like? Because, yeah, I mean, you had seven-threes, you had 33. I mean, you absolutely balled out. 33, 9, 3 assists, and a block in a 108, 96 win over FGCU. But what is that like to try and sleep the night before,

try and get ready knowing so much of the pressure is on you? I mean, you can't get much sleep. It's one of, obviously you feel that kind of pressure, but, I mean, once the ball's tipped and you get past the first media timeout, it's just another game. But, I mean, leading up to that point, I've never had so much adrenaline pumping to me in my entire life.

I'll never forget that moment, that's for sure. You go to the NCAA tournament and now you're taking on North Carolina. Obviously, you know, that look, that was a, every Carolina team's a talented team. That was a talented team with Cam Johnson and Kenny Williams and Luke May. What was that

experience like for you? It was obviously a really cool experience. Obviously, it hurt that we lost. and I didn't play particularly well whatsoever so it was definitely frustrating but really to I mean to sit and like realize how far we come as a school being the first team to ever make it

to NCAA tournament and you kind of got to put things in perspective even though as much as I wanted to win it was just it was cool to be able to do it for that school all right so you come back for your senior year now you've been to the NCAA term you've had a lot of success everyone knows you're going to be good did you do anything different?

How did you continue to evolve as a player? I mean, I continued to work. I mean, I realized if I really wanted to excel and maybe possibly make, I didn't really think I had a chance to make the NBA until late in my senior year, but if I really wanted to have a chance to play professionally, I had to get my three-point percentage up

because, I mean, I'm not just an athletic score or anything. So I really, really focused on shooting, the way I shot, the type of In terms of what? The way you shot in terms of what? Like you watch some of my shots. I mean, I'm not particularly squared up to the basket.

So I'm really coming off screens really, really hard and just basically jumping as soon as I catch it and turn in there and make shots. Like, I work on that stuff all the time. How many? How many? Do you have a number of shots? Because who we have on before we were talking to? We're talking to Matt Thomas.

Of course, Iowa State. Now he's with the Raptors. And he said, you know, like, I don't do really. numbers in shooting. I do tell with feel when I'm feeling like from a spot, a shot, I see it go in a couple, I see it go in sometimes. Do you have a number? Like what is, what is your pattern? What is your routine? No, I don't usually make, I don't usually make it a number unless it's like, um, they're set shots and I have to make certain amount of a row to move to the next spot. But when I'm doing that kind of stuff, I really just, I'll, I'll maybe spend 15, 20 minutes of doing one sort of

move off a pin down until I really, really feel like we can move on to the next thing. And my trainer, Jordan, he's done a great job. I mean, with his workouts, he doesn't, he makes a game like. He's not just sitting there rebound and passing ball. He's guarding you, and he's making it like it's game-like so that you can really improve. So I don't really, like, think of a number until we really feel like we've got it. And then we do come back the next day and do it again the next day, you know. I've had this crazy year, your senior year.

You win 29 games, you win the league, but you get swept by Belmont, right? You lose by two there and four at home. You lost a close one to Louisville. You beat Middle, who was really good, right? Another, that's like, I don't know, what is it, 45 minutes outside of Nashville, right? So these are all kind of close books. You lost it to Clemson. So give me, like, what are you?

you, your senior year, it's you, Kenny Cooper, Michael Bucklin, Rob Marbury. Are you the leader? Are you the vocal leader? Or you, like, what, what, what was your personality like on that team? I got Eli Pepper in there. My roommate, Eli Pepper.

So what, and by the way, anybody named Eli Pepper, I don't know him, but I'm sure he goes by Pep, right? Is that accurate? We do call Pep. Yeah. A lot of people call him Pep, yeah. All right. So, okay, what, give me the breakdown.

of what those dudes are like? The vocal leaders definitely had to be Rob Marbury. I was always kind of a quiet dude. He didn't catch me really getting on to anybody or telling people what to do or this and that. I kind of just try to be more of a action leader. I'm not much of a talker for sure. But Rob, he'll talk for sure.

He's the loud one, and he was the captain of our team, and he for sure made it known what it is that needs to be done. and this and that. I mean, he was a great leader for us. He did all the right things, made the right plays, tried to better the team, whatever way he could. I mean, that's the way he was. Eli's one of the best teammates I've had.

You wouldn't see him on the stat sheet, but he's, I mean, you saw where he over, he got over a thousand boards, but he's always, you never see him on the stat sheets, but he does everything to make the team better. Set's great screens, plays as hard as he can, just a great teammate, and always cheering for others, whatever. Kenny, obviously, a great point guard who just transferred to WKU this past year. I mean, I can't say enough about that guy. He's still a great friend of mine, and he's an incredible player that I wish he got his waiver this year.

And it's always tough when you have a coach that leaves. I mean, I feel like he should have gotten his waiver, but that's another discussion. No, no, I mean, and he went across the street. He coach went across the street, too. I got to get into that part. but um okay so Michael buckland another piece to our where you can't forget him he's playing right now

where they have obviously a ton of guys so he's kind of he's the one starter left out that didn't leave but he was a great piece as well he was a great defender and just a great person as well so uh okay you're walking into a gym or walking into an arena headphones uh coach coach Alexander would not let us

no so you had no headphones So you walk in, you get your sweats on, bag, okay? There's no, you're not a music. So you couldn't be a music guy before the game. You're in the locker room. Are you super quiet? Are you reading?

I mean, you can't listen to music. This has to be really weird. I wonder what the- We can listen to music when we get in the locker room. But like when we walk in. Just not when you walk in? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I listen to music.

I'll definitely pray. That's definitely a part of my pregame. Just kind of get scraped out by the trainer, the athletic trainer. What's scraped out? Stretched out? No, it's scraped out. They had this metal grasping tool and just kind of scrape out your legs and your back

trying to get the swornness out and stuff like that. So I do that. I usually contrast in the cold and hot bath. And that's really about it, to be honest with you. I hate to bring this up, but you did lose your last game in Allen Arena. I did. You're playing Liberty.

So last game is a championship. game of the A-10, a chance to go back to the NCAA tournament. What went wrong? I would say it was my fault for sure. See, I think we're up one with a minute left, maybe, a minute 30 left. We have the ball, and, you know, I was driveling, and I could have shot it. I probably should have, but I looked for one of my teammates on the back door and just they stole it.

It was a turnover and went down. I don't really remember exactly what happened. for that, but ended up we have to get in the foul situation. They just hit free throws. That's what wrong towards the end of the game, but, I mean, basically the whole game, we let them play at their pace, and Liberty plays so slow, and we're one of the fastest teams in the country, so we play at their pace, and they've got a great shot to beat us.

I mean, you hold, like, every scoring record there. You took the team to the NCAA tournament. You win 29 games, right? Like at that point in time, you guys only have, you know, I mean, 29 freaking games is crazy. At that point in time, you were 25 and 6, I believe. 20, you're 25 and 6. Like, but I got to think like, look, I lost my senior night. We lost to Oklahoma.

We led by nine with, I don't know what it was, five to go. And I was, I was one of these guys that I couldn't make a free throw. I, like completely, I was just mental case up there. And so I think my coach thought they were going to start fouling and he took me out. And like, as soon as he took me on, we just lost all momentum. And I had a chance to take an open three and I hit two threes in that game. Like you remember these games so vividly, right? More so even than a lot of the wins.

You're in that locker room one last time. And now you're like, okay, I thought we were going to the NCAA tournament before today. Do you remember what that group was like when you're together at Allen Arena after losing your last game? God hurt. I mean, that was the most anybody's ever seen that many people in Al Arena. I mean, it was completely sold out. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened.

That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down,

give you context and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports Slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to Sports Slice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo SlicLife 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of Mental Health Awareness Month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests.

I'm talking, Tript Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross,

because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth? Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, as we have real conversations about healing,

growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, learn the hard way. Open your free, our heart radio app, Search learn the hard way and listen now. What's up, guys? This is Clever Taylor the 4th. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff,

like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker, this linebacker walks up to me. He goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Time out. Quarterback on office, Blue, 42. Hey, ref, my mama want you to wave at her.

What? Hey, Ms. Parker. Listen to the Clippers show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano, and our podcast Point Game is about defying the odds. Like LeBron heading into the playoffs without Luca and Austin Reed. And finding ways to win no matter what.

He's the smartest player to ever play the game. His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before. And he knows. Without Luca and Austin Reeves, I got to manipulate the game. We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the playoffs. I think Joker's going to be exhausted this series because when they don't have Rudy in the lineup, he has to really guard guys like Nas Reid.

He has to guard Julius Randall. And then he has to give us everything he gives us on the night-to-night basis on offense. And when IT's friends stop by, like Quentin Richardson, we dive into some playoff history too. Steve Nash will get that thing. That man, hell get the flying. He running up the court, licking his fingers,

why he got the ball, like, After you go through a training camp with that, Isaiah, you figure it out real quick. Get your ass up and down the court, and you're going to get the ball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I've never seen it that pack, and it was crazy. And just stuck, man, I couldn't tell you the feeling just to let down. And I still think about that backdoor pass I threw. Like, I should have probably just shot it.

But, I mean, it is what it is, you know. Yep. you get to play in the NIT and the game which I think people who didn't follow college basketball figured out that you had a shot was NC State, 44 points

you have eight threes what do you remember about the game? But to be honest with you, the biggest thing that I remember is Kenny Cooper hitting that corner three, he stole it and I hit him in the corner for three to go up and then I'll never forget

that and then him winning the game when he bucket And those are the two biggest, yeah, I had 44, but those are the two biggest bucks for the game right there. And you guys are going to New York City. So for a group of guys who, you know, you started out your career, I don't really necessarily belong here, mom. And then you get thrust in your freshman year. And now all of a sudden, you're senior, you've been the NCAA tournament, you won the league. You have all these records. Look, it's not the NCAA term, but it is New York City that had to be an incredible, feel,

incredible reward for all of your guys hard work and your hard work and how you had had changed so much during your time at lipscomb didn't make them say a tournament and it sucked so our one goal was to make it to new york and play a madison square garden and i mean you know you're playing against these guys that these high major teams they got let down to be out of tournaments you never really know whether they were actually want to be playing or not in the nitee so they're i mean we probably upset a few teams that didn't want to be there um but it was just our whole mindset shifted where wanted to go play in Madison Square Garden. You have 34 your first night.

Obviously, you struggled in the championship game. Was it the length? What about Texas did you struggle with? I mean, they made it tough on every catch. They were doubling. They were denying. They weren't leaving me whatsoever. I mean, shock-smart.

He's super smart coaches, and he knows what he's doing. He had a great game plan for me. To be honest, he didn't hit shots. It wasn't really much I could do. So you lose that game. championship game of the NIT, he won 29 games. What Casey said after the game? Everything that we accomplished and how hard we fought all year long, even despite getting

kicked out of the tournament and still playing hard in the, in the IT. He was just kind of reflecting over the year and stuff like that. It was a super positive speech. What did you think, like, what was your honest thinking after? So college is over. You're like, all right, I got to, I don't know, pick an agent, I got to figure this thing out. What was your thought process? Yeah, I had already kind of figured out who it was that I had in mind that I wanted to sign with.

There were still guys I was kind of flirting with, but I knew probably who I was going to sign with. I got lucky enough to sign with the agent I have right now, and it's been an incredible fit from the moment I signed with him. All right, so who is it? His name's Chris Patrick with the sports law group. Okay, so Chris Pat, you signed with Chris Patrick. So what did Chris say, like what was his, what did he think, your rookie season as a professional would look like. I really thought I could make it to the league.

Everybody else was trying to push overseas and I was, and so really in my mind, I was like, maybe these guys are right. I'm not going to have a chance to make a week, but Chris is like, no, you got a chance to get a two-way or some sort of deal, and we're going to make it happen. I sure not if he made it happen.

Okay, but it's not just not that easy, right? Okay, so. Well, yeah. Okay, see, you had workouts. What was the best workout you had? I thought the best workout I had in Phoenix Lans workout. I just everything seemed like it went in. I worked out with Grant Williams,

me and I'm on a team, and I felt like we were just killing. And I don't think they really had any clue who I was really before then. And then they ended up, like, sort of liked me. But that was probably my best workout for sure. So they don't draft you. No one drafts you. Did you think you were getting drafted draft night? I thought there was going to be a chance

if some other teams some of the guys were picked that the other teams wanted before me. What grows in the forest? Trees? Sure. Know what else grows in the forest? Our imagination, our sense of wonder, and our family bonds grow too.

Because when we disconnect from this and connect with this, we reconnect with each other. The forest is closer than you think. Find a forest near you and start exploring. at Discovertheforest.org. Brought to you by the United States Forest Service and the Ad Council.

What grows in the forest? Trees? Sure. Know what else grows in the forest? Our imagination, our sense of wonder, and our family bonds grow too, because when we disconnect from this and connect with this, we reconnect with each other.

The forest is closer than you think. Find a forest near you and start exploring. at Discovertheforest.org brought to you by the United States Forest Service and the Ad Council. If I could be you and you could be me for just one hour. If you could find a way

to get inside. Each other's mind. Walk a mile in my shoes. Walk a mile in my shoes. Walk a mile in my shoes. We've all felt left out. And for some, that feeling lasts more than a moment. We can change that. Learn how at belonging

begins with us.org. brought to you by the ad council. So you go undrafted. Chris calls you right afterwards. He's texting you during it. Like what was the, what's the process like? Yeah, I mean,

I'm kind of tripping out, like wondering what's going to happen because we're kind of talking. He's like, well, I don't know what we're going to get because it sounded like I had a couple hours before the draft for maybe a two-year two-way or exhibit tens, this and that. And then after a draft,

he's like, well, I don't know what we got now. And so basically I was just going home, like going to sleep. Like I was just, like, frustrated. And my girlfriend at the time, she was, I was kind of, so I sent her home kind of and was just being rude. And so I went home just trying to go to sleep, just trying to forget the night for sure. Okay, wait, you see, you go from like, I don't know, I listen, I had no idea to now you're, now you're expecting to make it. And now you're blowing everybody off because you're ticked, right?

You're in a bad place. You wake up the next day and what happened? Well, actually, he called me right before, right, right when I got in bed at midnight that night. He's like, hey, the Wizards want to do a two-way, and we jumped on it. So the Wizards do it two-way, so you're like, oh, my gosh, a two-way contract. You call your girlfriend back. You've got to come over. We got to celebrate.

Anyway. So do you, like, do you immediately fly to Washington? Like, what's the process like? I flew that next week. I had flown that next week to D.C. To go through mini-camp with them before Summer League. And so that's kind of what I got to take a week at home and then flew up. there.

What did it feel like? Did it feel like I can do this? Was it like Lipscomb all over again, where you're not sure if you belong? What was the feeling like? I didn't feel like I belonged because we had 20-something guys fighting for the summer league spot

and I was, man, I couldn't hit a shot. It wouldn't do nothing. And I was just, ah, here we go. And it was definitely like that feeling of being a Lipscomb. Yeah, no, listen. I mean, and then there's guys you've never heard of in your life.

You're like, that guy's really good. Why have I never heard of that guy? Exactly. Okay. So you do make the Summer League roster. You go to Summer League. What was that experience like?

It was cool. I mean, you see all these high major guys that everybody knows about and nobody knows about you and you're getting to play with these guys. It's pretty cool. And, I mean, I didn't play the first two games and then played the last three. And it was, it was, I knew I wasn't going to be like the high score. I knew I wasn't going to get the ball as many times. times I did at Lipscomb, but I was just trying to do the little things just to kind of show that

I'm a little bit more than just a shooter, you know? Yeah, so you get done with Summer League. Who from the Wizards talked to you? I didn't really talk to anybody personally. I know Tommy, Shepard the gym, talked to my agent a lot. Really, I didn't talk to anybody personally there at the Wizards. Okay, so what did Chris tell you the expectations were? He didn't really have any, he didn't really say any expectations.

He was just like, we're going to, there's a chance that you can make it. You need to see, they built this, or they got this contract to me to see how I do in the NBA games and see if I'm a player that they can maybe sign for next year. It was all about development year. So that was kind of, it wasn't like you're going to come in, you're going to score this amount of points. You're going to do this much for our team, which is kind of to see and kind of develop me as a player. Okay, so did you go home?

Did you go stay in D.C.? What's that process like when you get done with Summerlee? Yeah, I went home for about another month. I just worked out, got to relax before I moved up late August, here in D.C. and just started doing workouts with the team and everything before the season, before training camp started. Did you change?

Did you crank up your workouts? Was there anything different that you did now that you had seen at least Summer League competition? No, I kind of brought it down, honestly, a little bit because I was like, because, man, when you're doing a pre-jurer, and you have no clue how tough it is that your body just killed. And so I just kind of dialed it down a little bit, just let my body rest because I was so tired. And my body just hurt.

So I still worked out pretty hard, but I turned it down a little bit, let my body rest. So you go back to D.C. and you go to vet camp. So you show up at vet camp. And, I mean, I've known Scotty forever. Obviously, you know, all of a sudden you're like, that's Brad Beale. These are real NBA players. Did you have a first Brad? I'm guarding Brad Biel experience?

I remember he, so I mean, I've always played pretty physical, and a lot of the guys didn't like how I played. I thought I was fouling here and there. And I remember Bragging pissed at me one day because he thought I fouled him or something, and then I remember hearing someone on the sidelines, like you're poking at the bear, and like I didn't really care who it was who I was guarding,

like I'm still in a place as hard as I can. And then, man, just Brad started cooking. convener. And it was like, wow. Just hitting whatever he wanted to do. He made it. I have heard he had, like, as good a player, like, he's, like, what, like, 32-inch waist?

Like, he's the most, like, ridiculous body. And, like, just complete freak of nature. Accurate? Yeah. Super athletic. He doesn't have an ounce of body fat on. I mean, a great guy, too, like, great leader. I mean, side of the fact.

he's a great player. I mean, he's always been great to me and other people just helping people learn and stuff because we're a young group. So, okay, first preseason game. Did you get in? I think, yeah, I got in, like, either the third quarter, it was fourth quarter, I think. I think it was against the Knicks, maybe. Yeah, yeah, it was against the Knicks. I don't know. What's that? I actually had a decent outing. I think I had like nine or something like that and hit a couple tough shots.

It was a crazy feeling just being on the end day for it. It was a lot faster than it wasn't college to me. It got to be a lot faster, a lot more spread out. Dudes are longer, right? Everything's, all these angles kind of close up quicker.

So you were on, you, how to shoot over that length for sure? How do you make that adjustment? Like, do you, how do you change a workout? Do you have somebody stick up a broomstick?

Like, what do you do to change, to get used to shooting over that length? I definitely had to speed up my, my release for sure. And I had to really kind of work on angles and stuff and where to be on the catch and stuff like that. And not bringing the ball down like a long release where you're

like cocking the ball basically. I try to eliminate some of that and just just realizing when to pump fake and when not to pump fake and stuff like that too. When did they tell you were going to be on the opening night roster? I don't think they really said. I mean obviously the G-league season hadn't started. The training camp hadn't started yet, so it didn't count towards my days. I think my agent had already told me I was going to be on the opening night roster. I didn't really obviously know until it came out.

So you walk into the locker room. It's in Dallas, right? First night's in Dallas. And you see your name and your number. That's kind of, you know, for a guy, like, you're a football guy, right? Who became this basketball player who became the all-time league score. Now you're legit in the NBA. Like, I mean, the first dream is I just want to play.

one night. Granted, you only played 37 seconds that night. You didn't hit a shot your first two games. Still, though, like, it's your name on the back of your shirt. Nobody could ever take that from you. Did you have moments before you started really contributing where you realized,

hey, this is, this is, I'm in the NBA. It's been, it was never really satisfied, you know, with just, I was happy I was there, but I never felt the feeling of being satisfied, you know? If that makes sense. Yes, no, It absolutely makes sense.

So then you have to go play in the G League after being in the NBA, which is like it's a, you know, it's a step back. But for you having played in the A-sun, like, look, you've been able to adjust. There were times early in your career where there weren't people at games. What was the G-League experience like? I mean, I'm still bouncing back and forth to turn teams. I'm still playing the G-League. But, I mean, it's different for sure.

I mean, it seems like there's not as much space as there is in the NBA. It's almost like everybody knows spacing better in the NBA. And it's different for sure, I'd say, but I don't take it as like a demotionary thing. I try to take it as just a chance to get better and a chance to learn more and a chance to improve my game. And I really try to look at it that way and not a way of you're not good enough to play in the NBA. You know what I mean? Yeah, no doubt. Was there a guy?

Because, again, this is kind of my experience. I did a podcast last week with Raja Bell, who we played in USB. he played in the CBA, obviously, before he became a start in the NBA. We talked to a guy named Sean Colson. He now works guys out, and Sean Colson was the nastiest point guard in the USB. Was there a guy who you guarded in the G League? You're like, dude, I'd never heard of that guy, and he is nice. Like, he's really, really good.

I don't even remember him in his, well, I know the Martin twins for, I knew who they were in college, but they were in the G League some, and they were definitely tough to guard. but I remember this windy city bulls guy. I still don't even know his name, but I remember him just shake me one time, and I'm just like, where did he even go? So you get called back up, okay? You get called back up, and now you're starting to get,

now you're starting to get minutes, right? Now you're starting to get minutes, and you're starting to get opportunities. You take on the Miami Heat, and I know how it works with younger players. You get to play on back-to-back, so you get to play when guys are exhausted. December 30th, last year.

Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves.

Their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. SportsLice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to SportsSlice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month,

I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking. Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing.

And we're still chasing it, and we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross. you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth? Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro.

Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, is we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose. On my new podcast, Learn the Hardway. Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. What's up, guys?

This is Clever Taylor the Fourth. And on my podcast, The Cliver Show, I'm bringing you. conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker walks up to me, he goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What?

Time out. Quarterback on office blue 42. Hey, rep, my mama want you to wave at her. What? Hey, Miss Parker. Listen to the Clippers show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. podcast. What's up fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano and our podcast Point Game is about

Define the Odds. Like LeBron heading into the playoffs without Luca and Austin Reed. And finding ways to win no matter what. He's the smartest player to ever play the game. His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before. And he knows without Luca and Austin Reeves, I got to manipulate the game. We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the playoffs. I think Joker's going to be exhausted this series because when they don't have Rudy in the lineup, he has to really guard guys like Nas Reid. He has to guard Julius Randall. And then he has to give us everything he gives us on the night-to-night basis on offense. And when IT's friends stop by, like Quentin Richardson, we dive into some playoff history too. Steve Nash would get that thing. That man, hell get the

flying. He running up the court, licking his fingers why he got the bar like, you go through a training camp with that, Isaiah. You figure it out real quick. Get your ass up. Get your ass up. and down the court and you're going to get the ball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Here, you get 29 minutes against the Miami Heat. You have 28 points. All right.

So did you know, like is one of those things where, okay, so first, when you're a bench player, when you're a two-way player, are you working out the night, are you doing the first bus and you're doing an hour workout before the game? Like, what's your day like when you're going to a game now? For me it's been like I'm typical as like the starters and you have your typical 15 minute workout You have either a meeting or well us younger guys we have like an hour Walk through like the early that morning to go over stuff and get extra work in stuff like that But it's not like an hour like strenuous workout that we're doing you know

Earlier in the year when we were when I didn't play much I think I had to play a little bit of three on three during one of the practices when we were on the road while the other guys were just kind of getting up shots and stuff. But then I, but they really kind of take an easy on me because I've had some injuries this year I've dealt with. So, okay, so tell me about that night and what it felt like. Did you know, like one, does Scotty come to you and say, hey, you're going to play a bunch tonight, or you just have to be ready every night? Well, I just have to be ready. Nobody really tells me, but I knew I had a chance to get in because Brad wasn't playing.

We had some injuries we were dealing with. So I knew there was a shot that I was going to get in, but I didn't know. I was going to take 29 minutes for sure. When did you know you had it going? When I remember Tyler Harrow was closing out on me, and I hit a little two dribble to the left pull up and hit it. And I was like, I mean, if I can do that, I mean, I can start getting shots. I could really put together a pretty good game.

That first shot really kind of got me going. All right, Tyler's known for saying I'm a bucket, right? You can't guard me. Was he talking to you? He did not. I don't hear him say anything in the whole game? Nothing? What do you think in his game?

Unless I didn't hear it. I don't know. Yeah. What do you think of Tyler's game? I guarded him a little bit. I know he hit a couple tough shots against us, but I mean, he's a shifted dude. I've watched Highlights and stuff.

I think he can play. He's not a joke for sure. After that, do guys, when you have a game like that, do guys look at you, treat you any different, or is it the same? Like, you go out and you're like, you have 28 in an NBA game as a rookie. I'm just wondering if now people

treat you differently in that locker room and in walkthroughs and in practice. I wouldn't say they treat you any differently, or a little bit, I mean, you're still just one of their teammates and stuff like that, but, I mean, it's almost like you can feel a little bit of respect, like they know that you can play now, like you finally prove

that you can do something. You can almost kind of feel it a little bit. It's not like anything, anybody who's doing any intention, or anything like that, but, you know. Yeah, yeah, no, I get it. Where were you when Kobe died? I was at my brother's house, I believe. How'd you find out?

Yeah, I was in my brother's. Somebody texted me, and I was like, which Kobe? And I was like, because, like, I was just in disbelief. Like, you can't be talking about Kobe Bryant. There has to be somebody else you're talking about. And it was just, and then I looked at Twitter and Twitter was going crazy and I was just like, oh my goodness. Who was your favorite player growing up? I was a big LeBron fan.

So were you anti-Cobie? Did you? Because I wasn't like, I grew up in Southern California. He's a little younger than me and we became friends. But I didn't love the way Kobe played. I don't know. I just wasn't a huge, I respected him, but he wasn't like one of my guys. What were you like in terms of when you watch Kobe as a kid growing up in Louisville and then later in,

Franklin. Yeah, he was never a guy that I was just, like, loved watching play. I mean, I definitely respect him like you did. And I love, like, the way he, how fierce and how big of a competitor he was. I mean, that definitely I respected. But I never really followed a game to dance with you like that. Like, I was just, always just loved the way the Brown play. What was it like to go to the gym to be around the guys?

Like, were you in G League at that time? Are you, now when you're like... Because I was hurt at that point. Like, I was, I had just gotten hurt and I was sitting out. And I remember going to, we were, we went, we were in Brooklyn. We were at the, the first time I think I saw the guys afterwards, we were at the NBPA. We were doing, they did like a little, we had like a little practice and they were having like a Kobe tribute video up there. And it was a, they were having some pretty emotional talks in there for sure.

It was a sad day. Yeah, no, it's a crazy kind of around the league. And I think because it affected a lot of people differently. There's a lot of players, a lot of guys who did love Kobe, but I think everybody, even the guys that weren't Kobe guys, as he became a guy who finished playing, you know, it was people who loved the work ethic and the toughness, and they took that part as the, you know, the mom and meant that.

And then there's also just the mortality of like NBA players don't die. They just don't, right? It's not like football players that football players seem to die younger. Basketball players don't. Yeah, it's definitely crazy. how much of a impact those guys have not even just like guys like us like an NBA but like just everybody

you know. Yeah, it's been it's been everywhere. The guy who's been the coolest to you on the Wizards is who? I mean, Brad's, Brad's been great. I mean, just from when I asked some questions and this and that, to be honest with you, I love talking to Jan Mahini,

Mahimi. He's a big vet. He actually took me out and bought me some clothes one day. I mean, he's a great guy. He just loves everybody. He's always got a smile on his face. I mean, he's been probably the coolest guy to me on the team for sure. Is there a text, is there like a text chain of all the white bench shooters?

Like, do you guys all have each other's numbers? And you guys all like, I got 100 up today, got made 1,000 a day. Is there some sort of, is there a brotherhood of white shooters? Well, I haven't made it yet. So I don't know. There may be, maybe they'll add it to me over here. a few years down the line. But I remember I got to, I was watching Corbyn workout before one of our,

before we played them in preseason. I was like, you know what I just need to go ask him, like, kind of about his regiment. And I went up and asked him before our game, he's kind of what he does and how he's made it, how he stuck. And he gave me about a 10-minute run down what he did. I mean, it meant a lot that he just, I mean, he didn't have to talk to me at all, but he just took five to 10 minutes out of his time to just kind of tell me what he does and just give me some advice.

And that meant a lot. Have you ever heard? Do you know this thing that he does? He does some one crazy workout every summer that like is he did this. Yeah, next time you see him, you got to ask him. He did this thing one summer where his trainer's like, all right, we're going to drop a boulder or some sort of big rock, you know, off of Santa Barbara in the water. And we're going to take a boat and then we're going to swim out to this one spot and then dive down. And as a team, like lift this rock up to the water.

And they just kind of figure out. You know, and then they do all kinds, something extreme every summer just to mix it up. Yeah, Corver, that's his deal. Like, I'm going to do something different every summer to kind of push my body, but do it in a different way. I've never heard of that. Sounds cool, though. I would definitely be interested in that. See, you need to get on the white guy shooter text chain, and then you would be, you know these stories.

Then you know these stories. I didn't know these stories. For somebody who hasn't seen Kyle Corver, and like, look, you're a great shooter, right? To watch a guy like that worked for a game. how impressive, like, try and give somebody who's never seen a great shooter shoot in a, in a one-on-none workout. Like, what do you think percentage of shots he makes are? It looked like the dude never missed, and it was off-balance threes.

It was off-of-move, all the fun to watch and really kind of see, like, where I could be maybe later on in my career. I mean, it's just fun to watch for sure. No, it's crazy, ridiculous. Like, I remember, I played in Russia, and I remember, like, I walked in, like we go into practice and you just like and I obviously wasn't a good shooter trying to recapture like my shooting confidence whatever

and these guys just and then you know you watch NBA guys they just never fucking miss like you guys never miss I mean it's insane I saw this video who was it of I can't remember it was a guy shooting after the game and I don't think people understand how good how good NBA players are

what is you mentioned at the end of your freshman year in college, change your diet, dedicate yourself. Jordan started working with you, first time your life gave up, you know, fast food and try to give up sugar as much as you could. What's going to take you from two-way guy to making it, to rotation guy? What do you plan on doing to take that next step? I'm studying, I think, grew different guys in working on kind of being a team defender and working on concepts and ball screens on that kind of stuff.

I think that really can help me. Because really when I mess up, it's a team defense thing. I'm missing up some sort of a concept. There will be, every now and then I'll mess something up like a play or something, which I mean, it's not often. But it's mostly on the defensive end that's going to keep me out, whether it be messing up a concept on a ball screen or not being at the right place at the right time. That's really where I'm going to take my next level and hopefully stick. If you were going to give a night's where I missed shots. So if you are going to give advice to a high school kid who's a good player like you were who's trying to figure out figure stuff out like what do you tell them?

I tell them to really figure out what's most important to them. If it's if it's relationships with people and put everything into that, if it's working on your craft, put everything into that. You can't, you're not going to be, you're going to have a very, very small circle if you're super, super focused on better in yourself and your car. craft because I'm telling you what, there's not a lot of people who put up with you being in the gym at all hours all the time and dealing with the frustrations of how much time you've got to commit to that. I mean, you're really going to have a small circle and especially like when you have friends that want to go out on Friday and Saturday and night and you're waking up the next morning to go to work out because you can't go out like you're going to lose friendships.

That's just the way it is. And I tell the advice that I would give is to find out what's really truly important to you and just work at it as hard as you can't and don't stop. This is the most important question. How do you maintain your confidence? Because, you know, you've had bad nights, right? You have bad days. Now, maybe you're to a point now where you might be kind of past that, but there's, you know, there's even doubt I heard in your voice when you're like, I get to the,

I get to, you know, the camp before we go to Summer Leas, there's 23 dudes. Or, you know, now I'm garden, you know, I'm garden, you know, I'm garden, Brad Biel, one of the top ten players in the NBA, and he's cooking me. How do you process that doubt and not allow it to affect you? I mean, I'm not going to lie and say that there's never doubt that crosses my mind, because even now, like, I'm in a slump right now, and it's tough to deal with, and I get frustrated, but I just think back to all the little slumps that I've had and all the work that I've put in to get to this point, and we all go through slumps.

It's how we, once we hit adversity, it's how we deal with that. and how we come back from that. And I really try to hang on that. And I try not to look at that future outcome, like me fighting for a contract. I try not to think of that outcome. I really, really try to focus on what can I do today to get better. And if I just focus on that, I mean, I know the amount of work I put in, and I have confidence in that.

So if I just really try to focus on that, then I can't worry about anything else. I think the outcome will speak for itself if I just do what I can today. Last thing, you mentioned your faith is really important. You went to a small Christian school. You grew up in a part of the country that faith is important. You're in the NBA, and there is a perception, or you're in the G League, you're in the G League, you're a perception that, like, you know, guys aren't into that. How hard is it to live the lifestyle you want to live while competing at this level of basketball?

I think it's, you know, it's tough, just the sole fact that, You have practiced Sunday's mornings when usually churches. You travel all the time, and you have so many temptations that are out there, but we have things in place like we have chapel before the game. And I have, I'm fortunate to have a guy on my team that we, every now and then, we'll meet and do a Bible study. And if it's that important to you, then you'll find time to work on your faith. And that's something that I've really tried to hang on to is not getting caught up in the lifestyle.

and just remembering where I came from and who I really played for and who really, yeah, I had to put in work to get here, but God bless me with this talent. I didn't just do it on my own. I really have to hang my hat on that. He got me here for a reason. And if I sway from any of that, I mean, it could be taken away from me in a second. And so I really, you know, I've been blessed to grow up in a Christian family and blessed to have people around me that have pushed me in my faith. And so I really try not to get caught up in that sort of lifestyle. And they put things in place that can help you with your faith, faith like chapel before and everything like that. So, I mean, it's not as hard as people may seem, may think it is,

but it's something that I tried to consciously every day improve on. Okay, we, we, I mentioned that was the last thing I lied. Casey goes from Lipscomb to Belmont. How does that sit with you? you know it heard I guess I would say it heard a little bit I was I wouldn't say I was shocked but I was you know but he spent I don't even know how many years there he went there played there there a coach there and you know and all the stuff that he's done for me I mean there's so much stuff that nobody knows that he's done for me and supported me and helped me through life give me

give me one this is a great this is a great chance to say thank you give me one thing that he's done that people don't know about just like when when when you think you can't make it. And his door is always open. If you have any sort of off-the-court issue that you're struggling with, like family-wise or like something in your life that you're struggling with, you can sit in his office and he'll talk to you about anything. I've had issues in my life that I was struggling with.

And he sat down and he really cares about you as an individual, not just a player, not just somebody that's improving the program. He allowed me to come in and be honest with him. And, you know, he's a man of faith, too. So he's a guy who judge you, and he's, I'm telling you, man, I can't thank him enough for what he's done for me. And it's not just him. I have, like, the assistants, too. They're the exact same way.

Coach O'Sahua, Coach Yeroyana, Coach Jishra. And they've been amazing to me as well and prayed for me and helped me through a lot of tough times in my life. So, I mean, all four of them, man, I can't thank them enough. Well, listen, you got a fan in me. I was a fan from the second I read things about you changing your diet and workout. and watching you grow as a player. And now, you know, when you play in the NBA, you're playing for a guy who I grew up idolizing in Scotty,

which is pretty amazing. You should, honestly, you should download the pod that I have. I have like a two-part pod with him. It's like an hour and a half or whatever. He's got an amazing, oh, he's an amazing, amazing dude. And we talked about you a little bit this summer when he was back, when we were actually doing yoga together. But in the meantime, you'll be surprised.

Like, there's going to be, there's fans everywhere from guys that watched you in the garden last year to NC State to know your story when you played in the NCAA tournament and now that you've made it. So whatever slump you're in shooting-wise, the next one's going in. I can't wait to see you play some more. I appreciate it. Hey, listen, it's great catching up. Thanks for taking time out of your busy schedule. Last thing, I didn't get to talk about how, and thank and appreciate how much my family's been there for me to get me to this point as well. They're my rock for sure, and they help me get to this point, so I can't.

Here's a question. This is, this is an honest, so I'm a, I'm a dad now, right? I got a 10-year-old son. Okay. So how should I, how should I be? Like, how do you, how do you do it? How do you push? Because my dad was a former coach, and my dad, he didn't know any other way.

He just pushed. He just getting the gym, you know, just figure it out, you know. He was, and probably it ended up killing my shooting because he was constantly trying to fix it and tinker with things, you know, having lived it from the other side, what, You mentioned how supportive of your family is. What's the best way to be? Let me put it this way. You know, I was growing up through high school, you know,

you see these parents that are super involved and, like, yell and talk to the coach and be like, why aren't you playing my son this, this and that? And it rubs me the wrong way. And I am so thankful that I had parents that kind of just sat in the stands and were quiet and watched. And whenever I had a bad game, they were there for me. If I had a good game, they were there for me,

and just supported me. And never told me, weren't sitting there coaching me after the game and be like you could do this and that better. Like I can't tell you how important it was for me growing up that they were the quiet parents in the stands that weren't making a fool of themselves to talk to the coach making you look like an idiot to being like, why aren't you playing my son more? I'm telling you that. If you navigate it that way, then it ain't going to work out for your son.

I know that way. Yeah, my thing is my thing now that I try to do is I try and pick out one or two things he does well that he may not have realized that I saw. You know, like, we've been working on getting in the lane and jump stopping and, you know, and making a play and not just going, you know, putting your head down just going. And, you know, he drove in last game. And all of a sudden there's, you know, he's little and he's in fifth grade. He's playing against sixth graders that are like holdbacks. So he's like two years younger and he's tiny anyway.

He drove in there and he, you know, he pivoted and made a pass out of it and kid made a bucket. And, you know how kids are? Like, he wanted me to talk about his jump shots he made. I was like, you know what the best thing he did was? You got in there, you jumpstop. So I've tried to be. I struggle. I probably will never be the fan in the stands that doesn't say anything,

but I do want to be supportive. And obviously, you wouldn't be where you are unless you had that group behind you, you know? All right, brother. I can't imagine. I can't imagine. Well, more to come. And thanks so much for joining us. We'll catch up soon.

Yeah, thank you for having me. Be sure to catch the live edition of the Doug Gottlieb show weekdays at 3 p.m. Eastern, noon Pacific. Fox Sports Radio and the I Heart Radio app. Hey, my thanks to Garrison Matthews. I hope you appreciate that I do. I just, I love learning about guys' stories and how they made it. Remember, you can listen to the Doug Gottlieb show daily, 3 to 6 Eastern, 12 to 3 Pacific,

on Fox Sports Radio, the IHart Radio app, any of our hundreds of affiliates nationwide. Make sure you tell friends, tweet this out, man. Send it to your friends. All ball. We bring you different perspectives, different ideas, different personalities, people, and their stories in basketball. ball. Chris Mooney, by the way, head coach of Richmond, long-time friend of mine, son of a bus

driver, really interesting personal story, Princeton alum, scored a thousand points there. He's going to join me on our next All Ball. So anyway, download, subscribe, rate. Thanks so much for joining me. I'm Doug Gottlieb, and this is All Ball. Funderstruck, adjective, shocked and amazed

by the power of fun on Carnival. Riding Bolt, the world's first roller coaster at sea. Brian got Thunderstruck so hard, his 93-year-old grandmother felt it 3,000 miles. away in Nebraska and immediately booked a cruise. Hooray! Get thunderstruck starting at 289.

Carnival. Choose fun. Cruiser in U.S. dollars per person double occupancy. Taxes fees, import expenses, additional restrictions, apply. Full details on carnival.com, ships, registry, Bahamas, Panama. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where sports slice comes in.

I'm Timbo, and every episode, we're cutting through the noise. breaking down the biggest moments in sports and giving you the real story behind the headline. And we're going straight to the source, the athletes themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions in the moment, and the stuff nobody gets to hear. Listen to Sports Slice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends.

me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, guys? This is Clever Taylor the Fourth. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds.

kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker, this linebacker walks up to me, he goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Quarterback on office blue 42.

Hey, rec, my mama want you to wave at her. What? Hey, Miss Parker. Listen to the Clifford show on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano. It's our favorite time of the year on our podcast, Point Game, the playoffs. We're digging into the biggest surprises of the season.

And I'm looking back on some of my greatest playoff moments. If we didn't talk ever again, I was hiring. You just understood. That's how personal it got. Wow. Then after that Game 7, Marquis keep coming to. He's like, you know I love you, dog. You know, it's all love.

This was just playoffs. This was just basketball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed human.