The Herd with Colin Cowherd - All Ball - Early NBA Bubble Breakdown: Suns, Clippers, Lakers, Bucks; #WeAreUnited NIL Debate; College Hoops Analyst Rob Dauster

Episode Date: August 6, 2020

In this episode, Doug discusses the first official week of the bubble, including the surprising Suns, the Clippers still sleepwalking the Lakers' limitations, and if anyone can challenge the Bucks in the East. He also gives his take on the Pac-12 athletes' #WeAreUnited demands and why he thinks the NIL debate overestimates the value of the average student athlete. College hoops analyst Rob Dauster joins the pod to talk hoop, Connecticut pizza, growing up a U Conn fan, and his path from playing hoops into sports media. Make sure you download, rate and subscribe here to get the latest All Ball Podcasts! Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter.

Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque.

Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, what's good, y'all? You're listening to Learn the Hard Way with your favorite therapist and host, Kear Games.

This space is about black men's experiences, having honest conversations that it's really not safe to have anywhere, but you're having them with a licensed professional who knows what he's doing. How many men carry a suit or armor? It signals to the world that you're not to be played with. And just because you have the capability that does not mean that you need to. Listen to learn the hard way on the AHA radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. On the Look Back at it podcast. From 1979, that was a big moment for me. 84 is big to me.

I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. With our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite authors. Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s. 84 was a wild. It was a wild year. I don't think there's a more important year for black people.

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Visit Danpatrick.com or Fox SportsRadio.com. Have to do it by February 2nd for your chance to win. Get right to the romance and find the way to wow this valentines with 1,800flowers.com. From classic roses and bouquets to decadent chocolate-covered berries, gourmet treats, and more.

Surprise your Valentine with 1-800flowers.com. Right now, get the 18-stem enchanted rose medley for $3999 or upgrade to 24 red roses for $10 more. Go to 1800flowers.com slash tune in. That's 1,800flowers.com slash tune in. What I'm welcome in. Doug Gottlieb here and this is All Ball, all basketball podcast all the time. Rob Doster is my guest. He used to work for NBC Sports. He is now a free agent. He is awesome. He's a former D3 basketball player who just kind of broke off on his own, and he became kind of synonymous to those of us in the sport, to those of us in the know.

He's like, man, that guy, he's really good. So we'll talk some ball, we'll talk some beer, we'll talk some pizza. We've got some other stuff to get to. He'll join me momentarily. First of, let me give you a couple impressions from watching the NBA bubble. It is interesting to watch the Clippers kind of go through this. At the time of which I'm recording it, the Clippers just lost the Phoenix Suns and Devin Booker had a fadeaway jump shot.

I like this Phoenix team. I can't tell you that I focus and concentrate on them in the regular season before the bubble, but I do know that Monty's done a very good job. I know that Ricky Rubio at the point guard when he's healthy. You know, people don't understand like defensively, statistically, analytically, he's really, really good. And, you know, he sets guys up. He's able to score just enough.

You combine him with DeAndre 8. who's improving. Like, obviously they should have taken Luca. You know, you had his national team coach as your head coach and you didn't take him. But it's not like he's a bum. He's a good player. And then you have Booker who's an absolute walking bucket. Like, I like them.

Still, the Clippers just, I don't know, they just, they're not yet hitting on all cylinders. I, Lou Williams, you know, everybody's forced him to go to his right hand. He looks a little bit out of it. You know, they're struggling with the rotation. I don't think they needed Reggie Jackson. I'm not sure that's taking minutes and really possessions away from Landry Shammett, even when Shammett plays with him and it almost feels like Shamett's now an afterthought where he was coming on strong before they made that trade.

And maybe at the time they made the trade, they needed more depth because they had some injuries, but now they're fully healthy and so now you don't really need him. You know, I haven't had Montrez-Herald because he removed himself from the bubble. So that hurt that. But I don't know. I mean, I still want to believe the clippers are the best team in the West, and I do think they have better weaponry and the ability to guard LeBron and break down a defense with their guard play,

and they're going to beat you with their depth once they have all their depth all set. But something's missing right now. And while there's something wrong with the clippers, it's not like the Lakers look great. Look, Anthony Davis was awesome against the Utah Jazz. He used them as stretch five if he can hit shots. I think, you know, I've said this on California. I'll heard show on my show, which, by the way, you can listen to,

3, 6 Eastern on Fox Sports Radio, the IHeart Radio app. I don't understand how Frank Vogel is not in every discussion for coach of the year. No disrespect to Billy D. Or to Nick Nurse, who was like running up for the media one or for, yeah. And then who else was it? Oh, Mike Booneholzer. But like, Frank Vogel was their second choice. And then when everybody hired, whenever they hired Jason Kidd, people were like,

no chance he wants to play for Frank Vogel. And Vogel's team, best record in the West, he's done a great job. He does not have a perfect team. That said, like, it's not a perfect team. You know, you're going to have to depend on Contavius Caldwell Pope, and as much as I like, I love Alex Fruso. Love. There's some limitations there offensively,

and there's just a lack of depth. And then Coos is so up and down. So up and down. And while normally you could hide Kyle Coos, from his defensive lapses. You have to factor in that LeBron, though he played great against the clippers and big stretches defensively.

LeBron, you know, he quarterbacks more defensively than anything. So I guess my early takeaway from the bubble is I still think it'll be Lakers and Clippers, but I'm not sure it's the locked up cinch that it used to be. On the other hand, if it's not them, who's it going to be like? It's not going to be Oklahoma City.

I don't think it'll be Utah or Denver or Houston or Portland. definitely at Memphis. Now with the Jackson injury. And then you got the bucks. And when I look at the bucks, I think that Janus at the end of the Rockets game, when he turned it over and he didn't see Kyle Corver a couple times,

some four shots, you start to understand that while he's not inexperienced as a basketball player in championship games, he's very inexperienced. And he doesn't know how, like those, the guys who are the best, they just get, they all talk about getting there, they just get to a spot where they know where everyone is and what they want to do and how they want to do it.

They just have this kind of, it's, I guess it's the $10 an hour roll, right? Once you get to the, you've done it enough. And I just don't think Janus is there yet. And I don't hate the Sixers. I think those top four teams in the east, you know, Toronto probably the best team. There's some limitations there are town-wise, but, you know, they're playing two-point guards and if Lowry doesn't beat you, Van Vleet will. Siakum obviously is a crazy, talented guy.

And then they got two very different big guys, old are big guys. Like, I don't know. Not crazy to think that we know the final, it's like we know the final four in the east, right? If it's Boston, I think Philly and Toronto, right? Like those are the four best teams. I think that either of those three, any of those three teams could legitimately beat the Raptors. Is it likely?

No. I mean, could beat the bucks, I'm sorry. Is it likely no, but you watch how Janus plays and you're like, okay, there's a reason once we get to the playoffs and guys can get physical and teams are built to stop him, you put enough size and length on him and you can navigate some of his drives to the basket. You bluff at him in terms of your coverage and he's trying to find shooters in the corner. And then you saw what Houston was able to do, playing small ball against them. I thought that was, and they were just, they were body blowing to death, you know, throwing the ball into Brooke Lopez, scoring would felt like at will.

But then at some point the scoring stopped and Houston just kept coming. So the thing about the bubble is, I think it's going to be really hard to execute your primary offense, if you will, because there's way more in-depth scouting of every team because you can literally go and see those teams in the bubble. and they're all on TV and you have plenty of time to track things and check things out. It may make for uglier playoffs, more physical playoffs, where these games, the defense sometimes is optional for much of the game. But I guess I'm not as sold in the Lakers and Clippers and Bucks, even though I still think the Lakers and Clippers and Bucks will be three of the four teams remaining. Obviously, the one thing with, it's interesting is Ben Simmons tweaks his knee,

right, where you start to think to yourself, wait, I thought that, that Joel Embeded was going to be the injury-plagued one. Simmons was the one who had the back issue before COVID shut things down. And now he tweaks a knee. Meanwhile, you got Embed who doesn't seem to be happy with anybody. Such a talented team,

but one that doesn't seem to have the ability to kind of get right. But, dude, Embedde is so talented. So crazy talented. I do think generally in the NBA, now that you have Shake Milton playing the point who gives them a viable scoring way, weapon. I still like them, obviously, not nearly as much if Ben Simmons is hurt. But, you know, they do have Al-Horford, but it feels like it would kill their any chances

to coming out of the east if you don't have Ben Simmons. Let me change the college basketball for a second. You know, recently there's been a lot of discussion about, you have some of these Pac-12 of athletes, which, you know, it's like 11 guys that come out and claimed it. You know, you struggle to feel like it's legitimate when there's some boycott movement and no one actually says they're willing to boycott the season for Pact 12 players. And then the Big 10 is not really a boycott. It's thousands of players, yet there's no players that claim to be on it.

And then they say it's D2 or D3 or NIA combined. Look, you know, the idea that you want more, though I would disagree because I don't know if the American public understands how much athletes get. We all think we're entitled to everything. We have an error of entitlement. And many of you who are college basketball coaches or ADs, you text me all the time, thanks for keeping them to good fight. We just can't say it out loud. I do think that's the problem, right?

You can't say it out loud like, dude, what guys are getting is ridiculous and compared to their actual value, what we could do. But we do it for student athlete welfare. And the whole idea is to go somewhere, be a part of something, play some hoop and maybe have a chance to play afterwards and then play some football and have a chance to play afterwards. And then when that doesn't work out, you call on your degree and your basketball, your football family and you start a second life and you do so with a leg up on everybody else. That's what it does. Meanwhile, you're not carrying the debt of college and you got into a school you couldn't get into on your own.

That's like the reality of it. We've gotten so far afield from it. Like these kids are not pros. They don't know. They're so valuable. Like they're not actually because anybody would step up and take that job and the drop off. It's not like you have LeBron James. You get somebody off the street who can't replace LeBron James.

That's because he's the best player or one of the best players in the world over the last 30 years, right? The drop off in college athletes between guys that believe it's a good trade. And it does. There's this article in San Diego Union Tribune, which is a good one, which is like at some point, colleges just go, you know what? Fuck you. This is enough. You know, the cost it has to recruit you, to entice you, to get you here, to get you

into school, to train you, to coach you, to. to tutor you, to mentor you, to make sure you get through and you get your degree and you, like all of that, it's a ridiculous of cost, public or private. So like, you can ask for all this other stuff, but somebody like, you know, fuck you. We're not asking, there's no more. There's no more money. And right now to ask for more money when college coaches are getting laid off, administrators are getting laid off, there's no fans in the stands.

College athletics is going to be losing hundreds of millions of dollars. You didn't put in on it, right? You just came in trying to get a degree out of high school. Like it's a great thing to get to college to play. But this idea that, like, hey, I'm entitled to. Like, no, you're not entitled to anything. This is what we're training kids the wrong way. Earn your future living based on what you do in college, both scholastically and

athletically. But I digress, you know. From a basketball standpoint, you look at some of these players. And I think what bothers me most about the. Pact 12 Players Tribune article was, it starts off with this idea that scholarships somehow harmed the black student athlete, which is a joke. Because in practice, in reality, they are an absolute lifeline. They are a wellspring of great careers. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games.

Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me. Clipper Taylor the Follinger. forth. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show.

This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream,

this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tapped Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim?

Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because.

of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you finishing that sentence. Yes. I don't think there's a more important year for black people.

Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your Podcasts. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hard Way with me, your host, and your favorite therapist,

Kear Games. And in recognition of Mental Health Awareness Month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase

that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth, or are you a good person because you're afraid?

Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, as we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, learn the hard way.

Open your free, our heart radio app, Search learn the hard way and listen now. In athletics, outside of athletics, that were sealed off to so many of the black community because the education level in high school, there's education inequality. And the best way to write that is to have kids, get through school, graduate, become beacons of success professionally. And then you see all these kids coming back to school and you start to realize that the reality is not what you read on social media.

The reality is most guys are like, you know what, college basketball is cool. I can always be a pro. I go there. I know who I'm working with. I know I can work with. They got my back. We do the best we can. We win as many games as we can.

And then we go and figure it out. So I guess what I'm encouraging you to do is to, you don't have to always have to take my word for it. But this idea of athletes being exploited, kind of silly when you see so many talented student athletes say, sign me up for another year of exploitation that I don't. don't need because it's not really being exploited. You're being promoted, not exploited. Let's get to our interview. If you love to be remembered as the person who gives the best birthday gifts, I'm here to tell you that 1800flowers.com is your ultimate birthday gifting destination. 1,800 Flowers has thoughtful and artfully created options that are guaranteed to deliver the

best birthday surprise. Shop thousands of unique gifts at 1,800flowers.com for exclusive offers and great values. To order today, visit 1,000. 800 flowers.com slash tune in. That's 1,800 flowers.com slash tune in. Look through your children's eyes to see the true magic

of a forest. It's a storybook world for them. You look and see a tree. They see the wrinkled face of a wizard with arms outstretched to the sky. They see treasure and pebbles.

They see a windy path that could lead to adventure. And they see you. Their fearless guide through this fascinating world. Find a forest near you and see you. Start Exploring at Discovertheforest.org.

Brought to you by the United States Forest Service and the Ad Council. What grows in the forest? Trees? Sure. Know what else grows in the forest? Our imagination, our sense of wonder, and our family bonds grow too. Because when we disconnect from this and connect with this, we reconnect with each other.

The forest is closer than you think. Find a forest near you and start exploring at Discovertheforest. brought to you by the United States Forest Service and the Ad Council. Be sure to catch the live edition of the Doug Gottlieb show weekdays at 3 p.m. Eastern, noon Pacific, on Fox Sports Radio and the IHeart Radio app. Let's welcome in. Rob Dostra joins us. Of course, if you know college hoops, you know him. How do you want me to introduce you like these days?

like college basketball analyst reporter. I mean, like, again, I obviously, these are tough times. I'm like not in any way. I just, how do you like, let's have like a real, just talk it out. How do you want me to introduce you? How about a college hoops guru for hire at this point? I think that's probably the best way to phrase it. And you don't remember like this is open discussion, whatever.

I've always wondered why you stayed at that place. place that long, right? Like, you've done this amazing job of making a name for yourself in spite of the fact that you weren't linked to CBS and ESPN or Fox in terms of actually having a depth of college basketball, right? Actually, that impresses me more than some of us who have, you know, did it right in the coattails of having all these games of content. What made you so loyal up into this point?

well I don't know if loyalty is necessarily the best term because I've been trying to get out of there and part of the reason why I can kind of sit here two days after losing my job and not feel all depressed about it is because I do think that this is a time where I can now really try to make a step forward that I didn't necessarily go all the way after you know it's kind of awkward when you are interviewing for other jobs and in the mix and trying to get your name out there while also having an employer that is a competitor with the places that you're talking with, right?

So I don't think I've been trying to move because let's call a spade of spade of spade, right? Like NBC doesn't have the content, there's no really reason for them to invest in college basketball the way that Fox and FS1 and CBS sports and ESPN the way

that they are incentivized to invest in the sport. So, yes, I was trying to make a move. There were places where I was in the there were places where I was one of the final cuts. I wasn't able to actually get the jobs, but now, you know, I feel like I can kind of go

full bore after this. So, I'm looking at it as a blessing in disguise and I'm going to go, I'm motivated, I'm fired up, I'm back on your show, so I'm looking forward to whatever opportunity comes my way next. Okay, you grew up, didn't you go up in the D.C. area?

I grew up in Connecticut, so I grew up a big U.C. campaign. Where in Connecticut? New Havens, the home of Pepe's and Sally's pizza. Yeah, okay, so let's, there's a bunch of things to discuss there. Okay, first. So, so they do the, like, the, it's like, I don't know, how do you, what's the, the, the pepe is the difference for people who don't understand.

Okay, so Chicago, I've been told by Chicagoans, like the deep dish thing is really for tourists, not for real Chicagoans. There's the New York style pizza, which is these kind of long, flat, really thin pieces of pie. and then when you go up the road, you know, you take 95 up and you go to New Haven, and you go to Peppies, it's like, what, wood fired? Is that like that's the thing, it's wood fired, and then it's almost like crispy on the bottom? Yeah, they do the grill really, really, really hot. So it's like 700 degrees in the pizza ovens, and it's actually like brick oven pizzas.

You know, they build a big huge brick oven within the actual restaurants themselves. And the places that are there, Peppies and Sally, and modern. I've been there for like probably 80 or 90 years. I think they opened up in the 20s or 30. So it's just something that's kind of become like a cultural institution within the city and kind of around New Haven. And since they started cooking their pizzas this way,

it just kind of became like the local way that you do it. And everyone that tried to open a restaurant and a pizza restaurant around there tried to copy the same style. So it just kind of became like the local specialty. And, you know, at the end of the day, it's been really. trust me, but if you are from New Haven, then you have to rep it to the death. And here's the key. This is how you know someone is really from New Haven. They don't call it, they call it Abitz.

They call it Abitz. A-V-E-E-T-Z? Yep, Abitz. A-V-I-T-Z? A-V-I-T-Z? Is that my... You pronounce it like A-B-E-E-T-S. A-B-E-E-T-S.

A-E-E-T-E-E-E-T. Got it. Abitz. Okay, so you grew up in the Haven, which is the home of Yale. And it used to be the home of Starter Jackets. I don't know if it's still there. Like, my uncle was in Stanford. And then right before he died, he moved to Florida, whatever. So I used to spend a month to three months of the year, like staying at his house. And like the big thing, I went there, like, one Christmas time. He was like, can we go to the starter jacket factory? And it is my mom grew up in Bridgeport. And she, it's interesting.

The reason I was recruited by Yukon, this is summer of 94, and my mom's whole thing was like, she just couldn't get past what Yukon used to be, right? It used to be seen as like state college, anybody who didn't, couldn't achieve anything, just ended up at Yukon, whereas now it's actually a really good school. It's very reputable. And a lot of it's been built upon the reputation of the basketball program. We're recording this, by the way, the morning that Yukon football announced, they're not going to have a season.

I joked on Twitter that, yes, Yukon still does have a football program, which is, for anybody who knows Yukon knows it, like, it's been a big thing. Like, do we just can't stop and go to 1-AFA because it's killing basketball to be in the AAC? Now they're back in the Big East. Your first, who is the first UCon team you fell in love with?

The 1996, the very first memory that I really have about watching college basketball, and then kind of watching sports in general, was the 1996 Big East tournament title game, the one where Yukonel was down by 11 points of three minutes left, and Ray Allen comes down and hits that off-balance floater where he may or may not have traveled. Then they go down the other end of the floor, and Jerome Williams misses a couple shots at the rim like that.

It was that team, that group, that I really kind of made me love basketball as a whole. And, you know, when you're from Connecticut, it's funny you mentioned football. When you're from Connecticut and you grow up a Yukon fan, the two sports that you love more than anything else are men's basketball, and women's basketball. I don't think, other than Dan O'Loflowski, just because he's now the big ESPN guy,

I don't think I can name the single other person that ever played football for the University of Connecticut. It's not something you've ever registered. It's not something that people ever paid attention to. So I do think that I don't know how the financials work, and I'm not going to sit here and pretend to be this expert economist that can tell you where the money is going to come from,

whether or not this is good for the school or the athletic department or whatever. but putting a focus and a priority on the thing that everybody within that state and all that family actually cares of it just seems like the right thing to do right yeah you don't you don't have you don't carry the weight of the debt but you don't have the upside financially that that they're in life's kind of the difference like they're going to make money off of women's basketball when they have fans there they'll make a ton of money off a good amount of money off men's basketball you make the most money off of football the problem is to have football you have to outlay so much in

terms of resources and coaches and whatever. And now they're, you know, independent. So it's very, you know, I mean, the real reason I think they canceled the season was they just couldn't get enough games. And, you know, just didn't make sense financially. By the way, the guy I remember, the Yukon football alum that I remember is Byron Jones. Of course, you know, Byron Jones is a dude as a stud in the NFL. But what I remember most about him was not only was he a freak athlete and was he

an unbelievable interview. But he had this, I think it was like a blue couch. That draft night, he was sitting on a blue couch at home with his folks. And I was like, that's the most, like, that's the most Midwestern, you know, Northeast family thing ever. Like, you got a blue leather couch and you hate the blue leather couch. Be like, yeah, it's comfortable, whatever. It's ours. So I do know Byron Jones.

But I agree. Okay, so the 90, it's interesting because my, my Yukon basketball, like, I fell in love with Yukon. earlier in the 90s. They had Kevin Ali. He was from Southern California. I'd watch him play in high school. He was a stud. And they played super, super fast.

That 96 team I actually played against, right? That was our first Big East home game was against Yukon. So that team had, for people who forget, okay, Duran Schaeffer was their point guard, 6'5, he was like 24 years old senior. Ray Allen was a junior. He had the biggest calves I'd ever seen. Travis Knight, they had a dude named Kirk King, who I think made, I'm not looking this up. I think it was like 52 straight field goals in Big East play.

He was just a bucket around. And then they had Rudy Johnson. And then off the bench, they brought those freshmen, Ross Jones and Ricky Moore. And so here's my first Yukon story for you. So I get home from ABCD camp in the summer of 94. I'm a rising senior. And at the time, you know, before I went to ABCD, I'd gone on the U.S.D. and I'd gone the year before, I was okay.

The only big schools to offer me were Florida, coached by Long Kruger, and Virginia coached by Jeff Jones. And I was in on both. Virginia had a point guard, Harold Dean. Like, that dude had the biggest arms and shoulders I'd ever seen. Like, I loved, I suddenly became like, I knew all about both campuses,

because I thought those were the best destinations I could possibly have. So I get a call from Yukon. and what was probably most interesting about the call was the juxtaposition of the assistant coach who I could understand and the head coach who was Jim Calahoon who I couldn't understand. And I'm telling you I couldn't understand a word that Beheim, who I love by the way, now that I know him to this day. Like I couldn't what was his name? What was the guy who's, I said I'm blanking in his name. What was the assistant?

He was the head coach of George Washington for a while. Carl Hobbs. So Carl Hobbs calls me, and he's, you know, hey, look, we play fast. We need a point guard. We got Duran Sheffer. He's a senior. You back him up for a year. Then it'd be your team.

Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I was like, man, this is great. I got family in Connecticut, you know. Like, I love the way you play. You got a, you had a guy who I grew up, Kevin Ali watching. you got all these dudes, right? Like all this sounded great. So then he puts on Jim Calhoun,

and, you know, he's got this hard Boston accent, and he talks really fast, and I can't understand what he was saying. Okay, your memory of that Yukon team outside of the Big East championship game is what? Like, what do you remember about the team, how they played? Do you remember who they lost to in the tournament, for example?

I'm pretty sure that was the year they lost to Mississippi State when Mississippi State was a five-seat, right? Am I making that up? I think that was the year. No, you are correct. Dante Jones, who magically had, the kid's name was Dante Jones who had like 27 credits in the summer to get eligible, some kind of magic pen sort of thing.

Yeah, I just remember that the kid ended up being like a second round draft. And I hated him forever, 11-year-old me, just despising these Mississippi State basketball players that I had never heard of before. But, I mean, I mostly just remember loving Ray Allen and loving Kirk King. And I don't think I really knew what I was. watching at that point, but it was the kind of thing where, I mean, I still, no joke, I still have the Ray Allen Jersey that I got at the time when I was a 11-year-old, somewhere in the back of one of my closets.

And it's one of the things that you just can't get rid of. You know, the first, I feel like the first sports team that you fall in love with is the one that is kind of going to set whatever your fandom is for the rest of your life. And, you know, I'll be honest, like, watching that team is probably the reason why I chose the career that I did. but you didn't go to Yukon, right? Didn't you go to Vassar? Yeah, I did not go to Yukon.

My choices came down to a bunch of Division III programs and the Northeast Vassars, Skidmore, Con College, Wesleyan, all schools like that, or to go play basketball or go to Yukon and just be a regular student. And eventually I made the decision I wanted to play Division III basketball. And, you know, it worked out. I just so many great memories from, you know, being on those teams and guys I'm friends with still for this day. So I think it ended up being the right decision. I would agree.

Like I think go somewhere in play. It changes your entire college experience. Okay, so Vassar College, D3 Hoop. It's in Poughkeepsie. I've only seen pictures. It looks beautiful, by the way. Maybe that's just the main building. What is it like?

The campus is gorgeous. The town of the Kipsi is not. Okay. I mean, that's a lot of college towns, right? I mean, you know, Notre Dame's like that. I mean, nobody goes like, man, you've got to live in South Bend, but then you go to Notre Dame. Like, wow, this is like walking around in a museum at times

in some of those buildings. Okay, so you show, who's your coach at Vassar? His name was Mike Dutton, and he was there for probably 15 years before I got there and another five years after I left. He was just one of those guys that hung around forever and everybody associated Faster College basketball with Mike Dutton. What was his coaching style like?

It was, he, you watch the office, right? Yeah. Steve Carell, like, if you want to kind of compare him to somebody, he was, we joke that he was kind of like Steve Carrell from the office, a great guy, friendly guy in the world, not the most charismatic person. I got a couple stories. There was one game where he had to get, I think it was the laser surgery on his eyes.

And for like three games, he wasn't allowed to have sunlight directly hit his eyes, but he didn't want to wear the sunglasses. So he just coached with a Vassar baseball hat on his head for something like two weeks. There was another game where he didn't want to eat the pre-game meal, but he got hungry during the game, so he whipped an apple out of his pocket and was just sitting there on the sideline,

coaching while eating an apple. So there's plenty more stories. But that was kind of the guy that he was, you know, very much like Steve Carell, awkward and doesn't really know how to interact with people the right way. That's funny. Okay, your first year was what year? Was it 2003 or 2003 or 2002? 2003.

and I was there until 2003, 2004, and I was there until 2008. I took the five-year playing with college. Okay, so, and then by the way, that was Dutton's last year, right? Because then he went, then Del Harris took over, which is like, I can't believe, I didn't even know Del Harris coached to Basser. How do you go from coaching the Lakers? Is it the same Del Harris? So here's the funny thing.

It was a different Del Harris, but when we saw he was getting high, they were like, how are we in the midst for Del Harris? And then we find out it's a completely different guy. But that was everyone's reaction as well. Oh, man, the program is really looking up. We know. We got the old Lakers coach. Nope, not him.

I think we got him from Morgan State. Yeah, what, you had a, your second year was a five-and-twenty year? What was that one like? Not very good, man. It was not a lot of fun. Yeah, but you guys turned around. Yeah, so my recruiting class and the recruiting class after me were the ones that kind of changed what Vassar was for probably a good three-and-four. your stretch. There was a year where we made it to the conference tournament title game.

Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying.

Yep, that's me, Clifert Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for Raw, Untax. filtered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose,

and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me, or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking.

What the hell does George Bush got to do a little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a here, unpack what we'll be. went down and tried to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack.

I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so you all know. I mean, at this point, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack, so I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now, so. Thank you for finishing that sentence. Yes. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history.

Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hard Way with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, We get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough.

Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on Earth? Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust.

I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Keir Gaines, as we have. conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, learn the hard way. Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Learn the hard way and listen now. There was a year. We had a couple guys that were a year younger than me that, I mean, they shouldn't have been

playing Division III basketball. Like, they weren't Duncan Robinson or anything like that. But if you were to put those guys on like an ID league roster or a Patriot League roster, they would have been able to thrive. So that's really what it ended up being was, you know, I was just. kind of the six, seven, eighth man that was out there to just go fire up a bunch of threes. That was kind of my job and my role, but the other guys they brought in were, I mean, they were just good, man, and they kind of built the program into something that it probably

hadn't been in the past. So you get done at Basser, then what? That's where it gets fun. So I ended up getting a job in D.C. on K. Street for some lobbyists, sitting at a desk answering phone, making like, I don't know, it was like $30,000 a year or something, not enough to really be able to pay rent in D.C., and I just, I hated it. I was absolutely miserable every single day, so what I did was at my desk, since all I did was literally sit there and answer phones, I just started my own blog on blogspot.com

and called it bowling as a habit, decided after doing one season of that, that I wanted to find a way to make this full time. So I quit my job. I ended up bartending at a place two blocks from the Smith Center where GW plays in D.C. And I decided to try to make it as a college basketball writer. Within three years, I was freelancing for NBC Sports and Sports Illustrated. By 2013, I was at NBC Sports full-time,

and seven years later, they fired me. So that's kind of how it all ended up working out. I would say that it was lucky, but I just feel like I put in the work to get where I was. You know, there were a lot of sleepless nights when we kind of first got started running the site. But, I mean, I wouldn't change it for anything in the world, man. I tell people all the time, you know, I have the best job in the world because I never actually have to work. You know, I just watch and talk about basketball every single thing.

So there's a lot of things that could be worse about the situation than I'm in right now. Yeah, I mean, it's the – I've done there when I speak at basketball camp. how many of you guys love basketball, how many guys play basketball, how many guys get paid to talk about basketball? I'm like the only one with the hand up in the gym. It's so much fun. And you're a ball guy. I love reading to and listening to your work, so it's out of complete respect. If you love to be remembered as the person who gives the best birthday gifts, I'm here to tell you that 1800flowers.com is your ultimate birthday gifting destination.

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Looks like Dad has the bags, daughter is bringing up the rear. Oh, but the diaper bag wasn't closed. Diapers and toys are everywhere. Ooh, but Mom has just nailed the perfect car seat buckle for the toddler. And now the eldest daughter, who looks to be about nine or ten, has secured herself in the booster seat. Dad zips the bag closed, and they're off. Ah, but looks like Mom doesn't realize her coffee cup is,

on the roof of the car, and there it goes! Oh, that's a shame. That mug was a fam favorite. Don't sweat the small stuff. Just nail the big stuff. Like making sure your kids are buckled correctly in the right seat for their age and size. Learn more at nhtsa.gov slash the right seat. Visit nhtsa.gov slash the right seat. Brought to you by Nita and the Ad Council. If I could be you.

And you could be me for just one hour. If you could find a way to get inside. each other's mind. Walk a mile in my shoes. Walk a mile in my shoes. Walk a mile in my shoes. We've all felt left out. And for some, that feeling lasts more than a moment.

We can change that. Learn how it belonging begins with us.org. Brought to you by the ad council. Walk a mile in my shoes. Let's get to like stuff of the day. First thing is, you think we're going to have a season? man I really hope so I just at this point

man I between a pandemic and losing my job like I need something to bring me up and I need college basketball season but this is kind of the way that I've thought about it and thought about the years that I'm just putting myself in the frame of mind where it's not going to happen

and I'm thinking and kind of looking forward to the season like it's not going to happen so that when we get something I'm excited about it right like I don't want to be the guy that's like oh man we're not getting non-conference play. Like, what's the point of you even playing the season? I want to be the guys excited when they say, you know what?

You're going to get a 12-game big 10 schedule. Everyone's going to play each other once, and it's going to be a neutral site, and kids aren't going to be allowed on campus, but we're going to try to make sure that we get these games in. And I just want to be excited about actually getting something and have something to look forward to. So that's the way that I'm looking at it at this point. But I just, it's hard because, you know, honestly,

I feel like the biggest danger. when it comes to spreading the virus is not going to be the actual sports themselves. It's not going to be the practices. It's not going to be the interactions with the team. Like the NBA, the MLS, the Premier League, the European Soccer League, they're proving that if you do things the right way, you can actually have sports and you can do it without spreading the virus. The concern to me is going to be what happened if and when these kids are like on a college campus

because that's going to end up being where this thing kind of goes crazy, right? Like how many, you think about when you were in college, though, because I know that I would not have, 19, 20-year-old me would not have been very good at listening to protocols that the CDC put about not partying and social distancing and doing all that kind of. I was an idiot when I was 19. I would have been out there, and I would have been spreading the virus, and I probably would have gotten it.

So I do think it's the kind of thing where being a student is much more dangerous than being a student athlete, but I don't know how you can have. have them be student athletes, you know, with amateurism and all that, when the reason that they're actually playing the games and putting themselves at whatever risk they're going to be at is simply because these schools need to be able to make the money in the athletic departments need that injection of income to be able to function the right way. So it's just, it's a very, very difficult spot to be put in. There's a couple things here. Well, the first is,

and I kind of knew this, but I didn't know the depths to it. The first thing is, I didn't realize how many guys at play take almost all online classes anyway. And, you know, this kind of goes back when Travis Ford got fired at Oklahoma State and they hired Brad Underwood, I was trying to advise the athletic director and trying to get some a little bit of feel for what was missing, right? Because the problem, one of the big problems there is like, look, you got a really small town, but you need the students to show up. You need, when I was there, there was very much a feeling like we were one of the students and they showed up and they had our back and we had footballs back and whatever.

There's just kind of, so I was trying, I was doing like a little research in terms of like, why isn't everybody so down on the basketball program? You know, like Travis is not a bad guy and the players aren't bad guys. Obviously, it went enough, but it was kind of more to it than that. They were like, you know, I was talking about how, like, you know, after you beat OU, like nothing like going to class the next day and getting out of boys. And I talked to the academic advisor and she was like, these kids, they don't go to, they don't want to be on campus.

They just, they want to be in the gym. Like they're, they're so trained to be in the gym that they take online classes and they're barely students. So the first thing is there is a bit of a misconception in how much things had changed in terms of being online. Second of all, like as long as they're taking class online or whatever, I don't actually think that matters in terms of representing the school. they already are representing the school.

The difference, obviously, is the fans. The third part is, yes, the money is a factor. But suddenly we've become this thing that's like only money for college basketball or college football is a negative. Like the only reason they're having school this year is because all of it works based upon money. The whole thing works based upon money. It's the same reason that when you're in elementary school, they want you to show up until 1030, because they get money from the state for every kid that they have, right? So I don't, when you say it's about money,

there becomes this world, well, it's only about money and evil forces at play. Like, no, not really. It's still hoop. And I actually think in some of this, like if you're playing an empty gym, it's much better in preparing yourself for playing minor league or overseas hoop when you don't always feed off the energy in the building. You got to learn to just go out and hoop. So, but do we have it?

Here's the big thing holding it. back. You're right. There's one thing that I do want to add to that is that I think, regardless of what the money coming in would be, like, whether or not these guys are getting paid, I think all of these college kids want to go out and play, right? Like, well, maybe not all, but most of them want to go out and play. Because you know that their past to making basketball a career is going out and proving

what they could do at the college level. And I also think it's important to note that, like, we're seeing a lot of the guys which are off in the draft and the past. If this was a year ago and we didn't have to worry about a pandemic and we knew that the G. League was going to happen and we knew what the overseas market was going to look like, I don't think that Jared Butler is coming back to school. I don't think that I assume was coming back to school. I don't think that Trenton Woffler's coming back to school.

I think it's a very different discussion in terms of the players that actually withdraw and keep their name in the draft and go and turn pro because there are so many question marks about what the professional landscape is going to look like and what the employment landscape is going to look like for professional athletes and professional basketball players that when you say, okay, we can make sure that you're going to have a place to live, you can make sure that you're going to have access to a gym that you know is safe, we can make sure that you're going to have a meal plan, we can make sure that you're going to get your stipend, we can make sure that you're going to get all this, that, and the third, like, that becomes a very secure option, and that's why, like, I don't think

that Jared Butler is going back to Baylor because he has anything else to prove or he doesn't think that it's good enough to be a professional basketball player at this point. You know, he could have been a second round pick. If you're picked in the top 45, you're probably going to get a guaranteed NBA contract. But the problem is that there is no security. There's no way that you can say, I know the G league is going to happen. I have that at the very least to fall back on. We don't know what two-way contracts are necessarily going to look like next year.

So the security of moving the bare minimum or whatever these amateurs are able to get right now was something that was actually appealing to them. So I do think that that's important to point out that the structure of college basketball itself is something that kind of gives these guys a place where they can go for a year before they can actually go and start their professional

careers. The other part is this, and I talked to a college coach this weekend, and he was like, we were basically, he was agreeing with everything you're saying, which is like, yeah, the problem is I can't control what they do when they're not in my basketball, inside

the basketball facility. And to go along with that, now I carry the liability to it. You know, like if they're at home and they get sick, granted, they might not get the same treatment they'd get here, you know, it might not get tested like they would here, but it's also not on my watch. You know, and I think that's the big fear for administrators and coaches. It's like, you know, like, and one of the things that's a misconception is people think if you sign a liability waiver, it waives liability, it doesn't.

They don't actually hold up in. court. You're still going to be, you still can be liable if a guy gets sick and doesn't get proper care or whatever. But I think the liability is a big thing. Okay. So speaking of the guys, who is actually in the, this is the weird. It actually like this is a, this is kind of a, it is a cruel thing to say.

But I'm not sure. Like, it's bad for the sport. We didn't have an NCAA tournament because it brings such passion to it. But if there was every year in which you're like, you know, we could skip this year. It was last year. there was so many like unknown players. Now they would have made names for themselves during the, during the tournament. But it does give us a chance to kind of reload, refocus, wasn't a great freshman class.

They didn't have this great impacts. You're like, oh, one and done, Zion Williamson, he's going to be a stud. Can't wait for the NBA draft. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast soon.

Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care which I'm saying. Yep, that's me.

Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw,

unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast.

It's a space. For honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right what you need to be. Listen to The Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford

and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do a little kill? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English.

Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack all day, but just so you all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you for finishing that sentence.

Yes. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hard Way with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness, this month. I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross,

because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth? Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, is we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast,

learn the hard way. Open your free, our heart radio app. Search, learn the hard way, and listen now. So, Jared Butler's come back. Luca Garza is coming back. You know, there's a good portion of players. Who's actually in the NBA draft? Cole Anthony, right, for one, he's one.

Wiseman's another one. Who else am I missing in terms of the guys that we should pay attention to? I do think that Obie Toppin is a very interesting name to me because I think he's a guy that can have a level of an impact next season as just about anybody in the draft. I think that I would say that he's maybe the favorite to win rookie of the year, even though I don't. Like, I would never take him with the number one.

an overall pick because I think his feeling as a player is very limited, but I do think he's a guy that I would call the favorite twin rookie the year next year, depending on where he lands, because I think when you look at the way that he plays and his skill set and the shooting and what he can do kind of as a

pass or in the short roles, he just fits perfectly with ball screen offenses as a big guy, right? And that's basically what NBA teams want to do these days. And, you know, I've very real questions about what he's going to be defensively. You know, he doesn't really move his feet. He's kind of got high hips, I don't think that he's going to ever be a guy that is going to bully people down low.

But if you can tell me that he's going to average like 13 and 6 next year and shoot like 35% from 3, I think that in this draft class, that might be enough to get your rookie of the year. So Obie Toppin is a guy that I'm excited about seeing in the NBA. Yeah, my thing with Obie Toppin is obviously he can be a stretch 5, right, or some sort of 4 or 5. I just, I'm with you. I think there's a lower ceiling, but I do think that he's much more. more refined, you know, as opposed to some of these other players that there's going to be two or three years before you're seeing the type of production that he can likely give you

immediately. I just don't know, you know, like, I don't feel like he's not like an NBA All-Star. He could be a good player, be a really good player. Okay, so then we have, we have Sadiq Bay. So who do you like in terms of upside? Of course, you have, you have Mello Ball, who's, you know, Everybody, look, his size and his vision are impressive. I would point out that he shot like 25 from 3 and 34 from the field,

and we kind of got caught up in watching highlights, and you're going to have teach him out to play defense, but he does have, and if his body fills out the way that his brother's filled out, where like Zoe, he could become a big-time athlete. Now all of a sudden you got a 6'7 big-time athlete, but the shooting is problematic, although guys usually shoot better, once they become NBA players. The defense is problematic, although you would think that his brother's a great defender,

so he can kind of figure it out. Let's start with Mello Ball. Where are you a Mello? So I watched every single game that he played in Australia. I went on that deep dive. I had time to kill in May when we were locked down. So I watched every single game that Lamello played. And I think that you're 100% right about the shooting.

Like you've got this weird release where it's kind of a push shot, and both of his hands are on the ball, and he doesn't have great shot selection as it is. So that's definitely like the number one concern for me. Defensively, like I would say 50% of his struggles on that end of the floor were just effort. I don't think that he really cared all that much defensively. I swear, Doug, you can go through and there are like five or six clips where he's just kind of standing there on the weak side of the floor,

wiping the bottom of his shoes, looking off into space as there's a ball screen and the guy rolling to the rim where he should be there as the help me. He should be there as the tagger. But no, he's not. He's just kind of staring off in his space and not really paying attention. And I don't know if that's something it changes when he gets to the NBA, but I do think that when you put him in an NBA organization where maybe he has someone to answer to that isn't necessarily his father or his manager or somebody that kind of facilitated the deal to get him to the NBA, I think it's something where he might be held a little bit more accountable.

So I'm a little bit more because, like you said, look at the way that his brother has developed. I think he's in an NBA strength and conditioning program. Maybe he gets a little quick, a little stronger. I also think it's important to know he's, I believe he just turned 19 years old, but he's one of the younger kids in the draft. So he's still like a late bloomer, right? Like, what was he, six to as a freshman, maybe swaddling that? So I like him.

I love the potential. I think that it's also a situation where, like, there's going to be no middle ground. Either Lamella Ball ends up being a all-star, or he's a guy that we look back in five years and be like, remember when he had all that height? Look through your children's eyes to see the true magic of a forest. It's a storybook world for them. You look and see a tree. They see the wrinkled face of a wizard with arms outstretched to the sky.

They see treasure and pebbles. They see a windy path that could lead to adventure. And they see you. Their fearless guide through this fascinating world. Find a forest near you and start exploring at Discovertheforest.org. Brought to you by the United States Forest Service and the Ad Council. Adoption of teens from foster care is a topic not enough people know about and we're here to

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The forest is closer than you think. Find a forest near you and start exploring at Discovertheforest.org. Brought to you by the United States Forest Service and the Ad Council. though. Yeah, I struggle with the lack of desire on any level to play defense. You know, now, I talked to an NBA head coach who told me once, he's like, look,

especially at point guard. Like, that's why they play, they'll play like one-on-one in workouts. They want to find out a kid's level of competitiveness because when you get to the NBA, if you can't guard anybody, they know it, and they're just going to go right at you and try and embarrass you. And so I guess my question, though, is like, All right, well, if he wasn't playing defense as a professional in Australia and you give him a bunch of money and you make him the number one or one of the top overall picks, why does that change? I don't know if it does.

I mean, that's the big concern. You kind of, you have to get inside of his head and it's a psychological thing. And I don't know if anyone knows that other than lamello ball. So if you're drafting him that high, you have to understand that it comes with that risk that maybe he never, ever wants to play defense. and that just might be who he is. But I also think that if you're going to kind of take a big swing on a player with a ton of potential, and I think we can both agree that the mellow ball, if it all comes together for him, probably has as much potential as anybody in this draft.

It might as well be this year. We're like, James Wiseman's fine, but I don't think that he's ever going to be an NBA all-star. I think Anthony Edwards is going to be somewhere between like Tyree Evans and, you know, case scenario, maybe a guy that averages 20 points in game, but he's also never really been on winning teams. He's never been a guy. Like, his reputation is basically what happened in that Michigan State game in Maui. He gets down big in the first half. He has this massive second half.

They still end up losing, but he has all these great stats and he's going to highlight. So if there's going to be a year where you just take it to go for the home run, swing for the fences, and take a guy that's either going to be great or total bust, it might as well be the year where there really isn't anybody. Like, there's no ion in this year's class, right? There's no one, there's no job for aunt. There's no one that everyone's saying, yeah, he's guaranteed to be a top 15 player in the NBA three years down the road. It just, you know, it kind of is what it is in this year's class.

So if you're going to roll the dice, it might as well be this season. Okay, let's dial back to college. Let's talk about Yukon. They're back in the Big East, which eventually, when we get fans back, is a huge win. You know, the biggest problem with the AAC is all the coaches hate the league, right? and rightfully so because you can't no matter how and people think well the league was good the league was good but it's really hard if you're yukon to say like hey instead of having georgetown or syracuse or nova you know come into the the civic center or come into stores where you get fired up or even st johns

and all this historic thoughts and matchups and memories now we're going to bring south well we're going to bring east carolina or we're going to be Tulane you know and and you know and and you know, even Wichita State as good as they've been recently. Like, it's not like anybody in stores sitting there going like, man, circle that Wichita State game. Can't wait until that one comes to Hartford. I will do everything to go down to the Civic Center for that one, right? So now you're kind of back.

Look, it's not the same Big East. You know, there is, there's Creighton, you know, was a Big East member when it has expanded, whatever. You know, there's some other kind of stragglers in there. You know, Butler is a great program, but not a traditional Big East program, but it has a big enough name. I think like of the programs that can make the biggest jump back to relevance, Yukon is probably the most likely because you have an excellent coach who knows the area,

who's going to do a great job in recruiting. The kids, they'll fucking be tough or he'll run them off. And you have, now you're back in the Big East when, where eventually when you have fans back, it'll become a much more difficult place to play. What are your thoughts on Yukon on the program now and on the trajectory based upon all of those factors. I love being back in the biggies.

I think that it is something that absolutely had to happen for the program. I mean, you hit the nail on the head. There's no reason to get excited about watching UConn play like SMU. Even seeing UConn play Memphis. It's just kind of like, oh, that's a fun match of if we did it every other year and not a conference play. It's not something that you want to see twice a season. So that definitely tampered down fan enthusiasm.

that with the end of the Kevin Ali era where they just were not very good and weren't playing basketball that was appealing to watch and weren't winning games. It's kind of they've landed that thing into the ground. So I am glad they're coming back. One of the things that I think is really important, too,

is that the Biggie as a whole, like you don't really have, the polls never great, but you don't really have the bottom of the conference that you have in the AAC. Toulouse numbers are always going to bring everything down in that conference as a whole. The same thing with East Carolina.

The bottom of the AAC drags down all the computer numbers for everybody that has to play all of those teams. The reason why all the metrics say that the Big 12 is always the best conference in college basketball is because you have 10 teams, and every one of those teams is at the very least good. The minimum is what? You're going to have a team that wins six games, and they're going to pick off some of the best teams at home. Right? You don't have the bottom of the conference that brings down all of the computer numbers. The Pac-12 is dealing with this.

a little bit as well. You know, when Cal is terrible, and Washington State is terrible, and the bottom of the league, just the Kempom and the RPI and that, whatever metric is that you're using, and brings everything down and it makes them much harder for you to be able to get an out-large bid. So just everything about being in the Big East, I think, is great. The American, the problem now is, you know, Danny's really got to get this thing going, right? When you're in the American and you're struggling, you can say, okay, I've only been here two seasons, okay, I've got to get my guys in here. Okay, it's the American. We got the big East change coming.

We got to be able to make these changes, right? And now you're in the Big East. You got James Booknight coming back, who I think is going to be a guy that can be a first team ball, Big East player, maybe a first round pick down the road. You have all these recruits coming in. Now is the time that you actually have to start proving it on the court. And they got unlucky a couple times last season.

I think they had three double overtime losses, four losses in OT overall. So they weren't quite what their record showed. I think they were better than their run. record. But I do think that now is the time where you can't just say that we have hype and we have momentum. Now you have to start getting results. And I think that they're going to get them, but that's easier said than done. It is easier said than done. I would actually say that the one benefit they're going to run is the Georgetown thing doesn't seem to have

worked. I mean, he had mass, you know, he had all those issues last year and the massed affections. you know, you lose, basically your team's built around a back court of two sophomores. You start the second they walk in the door, and then they're both gone by year's end. And then you have St. John's, and look, I think Mike Anderson's a really good coach. I just, and I think generally that style can work,

but it just, you know, it's a weird fit at St. John's. It just is. So when you have as much as I would agree, and then you still, and DePaul's still a mess, right? They got off to a hot start, and they're still kind of a mess, and now I'm not sure what's left. I think it's a pretty, it's an easier entry point this year

than it would have been last year or the year before in the Big East. Yeah, I think that's probably fair. I do kind of feel bad for Pat going a little bit, because I thought that that team was, like, I thought that was the year that he was going to take the leap at Georgetown, right? Like, I really do like James McKincher, even though he kind of has, maybe there's some, like, personality issues. I know that they definitely clashed with Coach Ewing,

but you put Akinjo out there with some of the talent they had on the wings. Maconaghan, maybe he never played defense, but he's fun to watch, and he can go get a bucket. So I thought that last year was going to take the year where they kind of took the leap. So what happened? Like, what happened? Like, did Akinjo, like, because, again, you know, I'm in California covering it, right? And I didn't have a Georgetown game last year.

But, you know, the assumption I made was, like, that Akinjo was jealous of MacKulng and the fact that he didn't have to play defense and he shot the ball all the time, so then it becomes MacMcclung's team, but then he leaves at the end of the year. What that'll happen? So part of it was that

what I was told with Akinjo and Ewing is that they really just did not get along. And it reached a breaking point where they just decided that they were going to go their separate ways. That happened at the same time that another player, and I'm blinking on his name,

but another player ended up transferring out I say transferring out. I think they were more or less booted off the team. And then as soon as these guys start transferring, reporters like me start saying, wow, that's weird. They're transferring in the middle of November when you have two guys or maybe the two,

you know, the starting point guard, another guy that was starting on the wing, they're transferring out of the program. Maybe I should just search some databases to see if anyone had arrested, if anyone has court cases, and all of a sudden you see these things about harassment and the restraining orders are filed against three players on the roster.

Those guys all end up leaving. And then I think what happened with Mackleong is that he kind of saw the writing on the wall. He had a foot injury that I don't know if he believes was treated the right way because he kept injuring it and would play and sat out, the played and sat out. So I think that he saw a chance to... Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. call it grotesque, others say it's

unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple

Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me. Clipper Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show.

This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment. And the next, we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger.

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double-tapped Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do a little count? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down,

and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so you all right. Yeah, yeah. Literally. But just so you all know.

I mean, at this point, this is the second episode where we've discussed, correct. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. So.

Thank you for finishing that sentence. Yes. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history.

Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the hard way with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of Mental Health Awareness Month,

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and listen now. kind of get out from a program that wasn't going to get any better, maybe get eligible immediately somewhere else that had a little bit more promise. And, you know, obviously, Texas Tech, I think, is, what, top 15, top 20 program at minimum at this point. So I think that that's kind of what happened with him. But it all went downhill when they asked kids to leave the program and, you know, did it knowing that they were publicly accessible databases that these kids were facing restraining orders and then had harassment charges against.

Yeah, but it's one of those things are you going to do. You're going to keep the guy in the program, then it looks bad, right? You know, you run the guy off. Alexander and, what's the Myron Gardner, were the two guys involved in that. And Josh LeBlanc, there's the other name. I finally get it now, right? Yeah, LeBlanc's super talented kid, too.

Like, very, it wasn't for lack of, lack of talented. Okay, let's change gears here for a second. You wanted to talk about top rom-coms. Is that really what you want? You want to talk about top rom-coms? Movies? of all time? I'm a big round-bound guy.

What is your go-to? So my favorite of all time is how to lose a guy in 10 days. I think it is the classic. It is the standard bear for the best romantic comedies that you can put out there. Matthew McConaughey is great.

You can't even tell that he has a Texas accent to that. Kate Hudson is great. The only problem with that movie and I want to see if you picked up on this is that when they're obviously doing this all for the NBA finals, They do game one, game two, are both in Madison Square Guard and game three out of the row,

and then game four is back at home. That just doesn't make any sense. That never happens at the end of the end. That's not realistic. So that's my one problem with the movie. And when Harry Met Sally doesn't do it for, it's too old? It doesn't stand up. A little old school for me.

You know, that was, I had to watch that on a page. Part of it is you have to understand, like, back then Meg Ryan was top-notch, right? Like, she was, that was, that was, it was like, oh, there's Meg Ryan, and then there's everybody else, right? It's Meg Ryan and Julia Roberts, you know, in the late 80s, early in 90s. And so you had, you know, Notting Hill, you know, my best friend's wedding, sleep is in Seattle, pretty woman. I don't know if that's a rom-com, pretty well, like, you know, the problem is with the Richard Gear story, but, you know, pretty woman. And she's incredible in that one.

Four weddings and a funeral. That's a good one. But the proposal is actually pretty good. as well? Yes, that is good. You know, the most ungrased, I think, romantic comedy actress is probably Cameron Diaz.

You look at her track record. What happens in Vegas with Ashna Couture was great. The holiday with Jack Black, and that was fantastic. I actually just watched that the other night. So, Cameron Diaz, there's something about Mary,

all-time classic. As good as it gets? As good as it gets. Just classic. To me, I think she's most under it. She doesn't get enough credit. for how good she is as a romantic comedy actress. I was also knocked up as a good one as well.

Great. Great movie. Okay. I know you did Goodman's podcast. Did you talk beer on Goodman's podcast? We did a little bit. I told him, he asked me if I never get another job. Well, he basically said he doesn't think I'm going to get another job.

So what's my next career? I told him I'm going to open a craft beer. Okay. And where would you open it? In New Haven? I don't know, man. That's a good question. So my idea, and tell me what you think about this business.

plan. So you know how every time on the East Coast when you drive to the beach, there's like one random county road that everybody has to drive down to be able to get to the actual beach itself, right? And you know how every time you drive down that road, you always see that one guy on the side of the road that has like the random smoker that's making ribs and brisket and pulled pork and you can pull over and you spend five bucks and you get more food than you can actually eat? So what I want to do is I want to be that random guy on the side of the road heading towards the beach with the smoker making the ribs, making the pulled pork, making the brisket.

And I also happen to have behind me a store that has craft beer, that has a butcher shop, that has anything that you could ever need when you're going to the beach to a beach house to be able to go celebrate. So maybe that's just my retirement plan, but that's what I want to do one day. So if you want to be an investor, I'm looking for them, Doug. Yeah, I just don't know how profitable that is, right? That feels like living out of the back of your truck sort of profitability, right? Like, I don't know if you can go with a degree from Bassler College and a stellar career as a college basketball writer and analyst, too, like, hey, he's the IPA guy who sells it out of the back of his truck.

Like, that's a good side gig. But I don't know if that's a good, that's a main gig sort of thing, right? It's my retirement. The LeBron thing. The LeBron thing. Got nothing going off going on. All right. I'm going to be honest with you.

I don't like IPAs. I don't like the taste. I like Mexican beer. I just, I've tried. Nothing wrong with that. Nothing wrong with, nothing wrong with a good corona on a hot day. A little bit of lime. You wonder what my trick is?

I put a little bit of salt in the corona. Is that weird? No, no. But now you got to go deeper. You got to go medella. You got to go dosecis. You got to go tecate. You got to try all the different varieties of the Mexican beer.

Because the corona, you know, it's not quite the Taco Bell of Mexican food, but it's like Chipotle. There's a little Chipotle too. it of Mexican beer, right? That's really how it's viewed in the Mexican beer community. Yeah, I'm a big Tacite guy because where I grew up, you did it in

like the 24-ounce cans, so I used to get a 24-ounce cans of Tacete. That was my move. Yeah, we used to do you know, maybe this has hurt my love for beer is we used to do 40 ounces of St. I's or whatever, and that was, that's probably why I don't

like beer that much is that's what I grew up, like oh, let's go get a 40, which is just disgusting, right? It's the absolute worst, man. I can't believe. Some of the stuff that we used to drink back in the day, I can't believe that I actually put my body. My boy Phil Hickey, who is my teammate at at Notre Dame, his dorm room, Dylan Hall, they were 40s at 4 on Fridays, and they used

to just have 40 ounces. You go in there, you pay them 5 bucks, they give you a 40, and guys just pound a 40 of beer. It's just the worst guy like, oh, between your breath and the hangover and just the feeling of it just just awful um give me an NBA player not a bad business model for him five dollars for a 40 not not bad he probably a little profit on that there's definitely a lot of profit on I think they were like 299 at the time I think they were 299 you know so you know you you have you know you're making two dollars

of profit you sell a hundred of them and literally they could have they could they could They could move 100 of them in an all-boys dorm, all-men's dorm. And I don't want to throw him under the bus. I don't think he committed NCA violation. Let's just say his roommate got all the profits. Let's just do it that way. That's a Notre Dame business education coming in play. No doubt.

Give me an NBA player who's a star who you were wrong about. NBA player who's a star that I was wrong about. I didn't think Devin Booker was going to be as good as he ended up being. You know, what if he had a top top eight score in the NBA right now? I thought that when he was a lottery pick, I was like, yeah, there's no way that that's going to end up working out. I also thought Scalibusia was going to be able to figure things out when he got to the NBA. You know, that doesn't look too smart right now. Yeah, I mean, I did like Devin Booker.

And it's interesting, you bring up the youth of Mello Ball. Like, he was the youngest guy in the draft. And it's a hard one, right? It's like one of those things where, like, the shooting numbers were just not good in college. if you watch him shoot, you're like, well, he can really shoot. I did like Devin Booker. Obviously, everybody picks out my, my Steph Curry, who I just thought Steph Curry needed more time to develop. I just, I didn't think he could play.

I had no idea, one, that he would become as good as he's become, and two, you could play the way he plays in the NBA. We hadn't had that before. So it's like, I'll be self-critical and think, I think my last draft column, I said, like, I think his upside is like Jeff Hornacek, really good player. can play the point, can play the two, can make shots. Obviously, I was massively wrong for a guy who was the first ever unanimous MVP. But I didn't know anybody could play that way and be the successful.

I mean, I think you can be forgiven for not predicting that a player is going to change what the actual NBA looks like and change what people consider the modern NBA. You know, it's one thing when someone, it's obviously they're going to be able to fit into the NBA a certain way. I don't think it can predict that somebody is going to change the way that basketball is played at the highest level. And it's also like, it's part of the reason why I think that the draft is so hard to project and why you see so many of these guys just kind of come out of, I don't want to say nowhere, but like a Kauai Leonard, you know? Right. Like I think Kauai and Steph kind of get put in the same conversation from me because they're just insane workers, right? And they put in the effort to get to the point that they are.

And it's not like they have necessarily, when they were coming out, the ability that made you say, okay, that guy is a surefire star. But if you find someone that is a worker like that, who's going to put in the hours in the gym, you know, I think that's something, especially when they're maybe young for their age, you're young for their grade. It's something that I think needs to be looked at a little bit more when you're one of these draft guys.

Do you like watching James Harden play basketball? No, I don't. The Rockets are my least favorite team to watch in the NBA. I just, I can't, I can't do it. I appreciate his skill set, but it's not, when I want to sit down and watch a basketball game, like I don't want to just watch James Harden

do the things that he does. Yeah, which crazy is, there's a lot of what he does that you love, right? Like, he's actually a great passer. It's a very good ball and an unbelievable shotmaker. It's not for lack of talent. You know, it's just a way in which they, And like now they're using Russell Westbrook as like a small ball five or a pick and roll guy catching it like in the keyhole and making plays.

Like I love a lot of Russell Westbrook and how at times hard he plays and competes and wants to win. But it's just a tough watch for me in terms of, man, I really love the way that whereas I like the way Toronto plays, even if I don't think Toronto's nearly as good as the other teams. Yeah, I mean, I'm kind of in the same boat, right? I mean, it feels like all you're doing is watching James Harden take his turn go one-on-one, and then Russell Resberg take his turn, and him go one-on-one, and it's just, it's not palatable for me. It's not the style that I like to watch.

I think that anybody can see what he does and appreciate just how good he is as a basketball player. It doesn't mean that it's the kind of thing that I want to watch for two and a half hours on a Tuesday night. Okay, last, the very, very last thing, I promise. Very last thing. Five years from now, Rob Douser's where? Five years from now, Rob Doster is working for Fox Sports One covering the Big East, and him and Doug Dottley have the number one podcast in all sports. I like it. I like it.

Good sale at the end. All right, listen, I don't know if there's limbs outside that you need to pick up with the hurricane that goes, like Connecticut's always got bizarre weather, right? Like, we had a Halloween that was canceled because of snow came down early in the, early and then down the power lines. That was like 12 years ago. That was right before I'm, or eight years ago, right before we moved out.

There's hurricanes that go through there. There's hot spells. But once you get to September 1st, until, I think Thanksgiving, it's pretty much the prettiest place on Earth. There are good things on your horizon because everybody likes you. Unlike me, everybody likes you.

So that's good. And if this helps even better. But, dude, thanks so much for your time and let's catch up very soon. I really do appreciate it, Doug. Thank you. Be sure to catch the live edition of the Doug Gottlieb show weekdays at 3 p.m. Eastern, noon Pacific. All right. Thanks so much, Rob. That was awesome, awesome stuff. Really appreciate you join us.

By the way, again, programming note, if you want to listen to the Doug Gottlieb show, we also have podcasts available. Each hour's podcast, whole show podcast. Iheart radio, wherever you download podcast, download the Doug Gottlieb show. It airs live 3 to 6 Eastern every day on Fox Sports Radio on the IHeart Radio app. My thanks to Rob Doster and to you for downloading. describing, rating, and listening. I'm Doug Gottlieb. This is all ball. Funderstruck, adjective. Shocked and amazed by the power of fun on Carnival.

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fees, import expenses, additional restrictions, and plightful details on carnal.com, ships registered by Hamas, Panama. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an acapella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes.

Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds.

I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, what's good, y'all? You're listening to Learn the Hard Way with your favorite therapist and host Kear Games. This space is about black men's experiences, having honest conversations that it's really not safe to have anywhere, but you're having them with a licensed professional who knows what he's doing. How many men carry a suit or armor? It signals to the world that you're not to be played with. And just because you have the capability that does not. not mean that you need to. Listen and learn the hard way on the AHA radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your

podcast. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the Fourth. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifers Show.

This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok podcast network on TikTok. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.