The Herd with Colin Cowherd - All Ball - Former Hofstra Star Charles Jenkins on NYC Upbringing, College Ups/Downs, NBA Draft Experience

Episode Date: August 1, 2021

In this episode, Doug gives his key impressions of the NBA Draft, and is joined by former Hofstra star Charles Jenkins discusses avoiding pitfalls during his NYC upbringing, dealing with the sudden loss of his brother, why he chose to play ball at Hofstra, navigating the ups and downs of his college career, and his NBA Draft experience. Make sure you download, rate and subscribe here to get the latest All Ball Podcasts! Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter.

Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque.

Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On the Look Back at it podcast. From 1979, that was a big moment for me.

84 was big to me. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a year, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. With our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite authors. Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s. 84 was a wild year. It was a wild year.

I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifers Show.

This is a place for raw, unfilled conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to the Clifford show on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Remember all those big dreams used to have? And then life made other plans. With a Mercedes-Benz Sprinter van, it's time to bring those dreams back. Start your own business or commit to van life with a Mercedes-Benz Sprinter van.

Now, you could win the Mercedes-Benz Sprinter mode four by four that we have. the Dan Patrick show Ultimate Camping Rigs Sweepstakes. To enter, get official rules. Visit Danpatrick.com or Fox SportsRadio.com. Have to do it by February 2nd for your chance to win. If you love to be remembered as the person who gives the best birthday gifts, I'm here to tell you that 1-800flowers.com is your ultimate birthday gifting destination. 1-800 flowers has thoughtful and artfully created options that are guaranteed to deliver the best birthday surprise.

Shop thousands of unique gifts at 1800flowers.com for exclusive offers and great values. To order today, visit 1800flowers.com slash tune in. That's 1,800flowers.com slash tune in. Hey, what up? Welcome in. I'm Doug Gali Ben. This is All Ball. We got a great guest for you the next couple of episodes. Charles Jenkins is a fantastic player. He played for Olympiacos last season. And we'll get his part of this pod, you'll find out what it was like to play under kind of quarantine COVID in Greece this past year. There's so much good stuff on this pot from his upbringing, a tragedy which took place when he was in eighth grade,

to bouncing around high schools to how he made his way to Hofstra, to becoming a star at Hofstra, playing really for two coaches, but sort of three coaches at Hofstra. and what happened, to be drafted in the NBA, to what it's like to play with Steph Curry, to when Monte Ellis was traded. Like all this stuff, it's all on here. So you're going to love it. I'm not going to do a draft recap and go through guy by guy by guy. But I do think what's fascinating is some of the makings of these teams, right?

These are the, because if you look at the NBA, the teams in the NBA finals, you know, whether they tanked or they were just bad and then they went for the full tank gusto, Phoenix was really bad a couple years ago. Milwaukee in 2013, they were terrible. And the building blocks of NBA finals teams starts in the draft, right? That's a long time since 19, since 2013, I think it's 2013 with Milwaukee. And it's not that long for Phoenix. but I mean I like the Devin Booker

draft pick he was the youngest guy in the draft that year and you know I learned from that and the Tobias Harris and so many of these guys that you're like really good but they're only he's only how old oh that's that's that's different so let me just give you a couple of things that I find interesting I thought Houston did a really good job you get Jalen Green who

I personally like Cade Cunningham better all around, but you do need guys that can score, and this guy can score. And he is improved during his year with the G League Ignite. Like he's a bucket. Freak athlete who's becoming a better shooter. I don't know about decision makings in big games. You're not going to play in a big game for a couple years with the Rockets.

It doesn't matter. You got the second best prospect on the board, a wing score who's a freak athlete. I like it. But then they got Sengwin, who, Alper and Sengwin, who's 18 years old, was a machine scoring in Turkey at a very, very high level. I thought he should have gone sooner.

You know, and then you look at what else they, I like their whole draft. The interesting one is Oklahoma City, where they got Josh Giddy, and Giddy left-handed, kind of a one, two, three, not really a four, tremendous passer. He's kind of got that funky, unorthodox, smart, not Joe Ingalls.

He's more of a playmaking guard, but he's not crazy athletic. But here's the thing. Like, those guys work in the NBA. They do. Luca Donchick is not a great athlete, but he's a great basketball player. And I know I sound like I'm contradicted myself.

You're like, well, you got Jalen Green. Like, they're different. Jalen Green has one, defensively, he should be able to lock you up and make some plays with athleticism. Offensively, he should be able to score. but Giddy is a guy who can score some, can make everybody else better. Like, he's a, for a young kid, really skilled, really smart and big.

And it's just interesting what Oklahoma City chose to turn down in order to take Josh Giddy. I think those are the Houston and Oklahoma City, both in rebuild mode, really interesting. And then Detroit, Kate has a chance to be special. He is Penny Hardaway 2.0 to me. And people who remember how good Penny Hardaway was. that is a supreme compliment. And Penny, Prop 48 at his first year, whereas obviously Cade came out of his first year. So in terms of development, I would say Cade's probably ahead of where Penny was at this time during his life, during his career, not life.

He's still alive. He's coaching. Anyway, all right, let's get to this Charles Jenkins interview and then I'll give you a couple of thoughts on the rest of the NBA draft and on Russell Westbrook with the Lakers. Without further ado, the superstar at Hofstra, former draft pick of the Golden State Warriors, Charles Jenkins. Okay, so your first memories of playing hoop, right? First memories playing hoop are where? In Brooklyn, New York, my older brother and my dad.

You know, Brooklyn's fascinating, right? Because my dad grew up in New York, and we used to go back every summer. And Brooklyn growing up in Brooklyn, like, Brooklyn now is crazy, crazy, nice and expensive and everything's redone. Not everything, but a lot. I mean, it is, you want to talk about a place that has done a complete transformation. But that's for people who are thinking of Brooklyn now. What was Brooklyn like when you grew up?

Well, I lived there for a short amount of time. So, but that's when I began playing. Brooklyn was pretty rough. We lived in the Brownsler area. It was a lot of crime. The gangs really started to form that time. So I want to say like maybe the first couple of years playing, I played in Brooklyn, but my dad was so, you know, paranoid about where I would end up if I stayed there.

So we ended up moving to Queens. But at that time, it was a very tough neighborhood to live in. It was a lot of, you know, shootings, you know, often drug dealing. A lot of my friends were turning into gang members at a really young age. So it was a pretty tough experience for us. So what's that like? Like what's it really like? We have people who don't grow up in an area where their friends are becoming, you know, members of a gang.

How old are you? Like let's say your last year there, how old were you? My last year died I was seven. Okay. So you're seven years old. You just, you know, fun. I mean, I just seven-year-olds usually have no cares in the world, right? They're just boys and they just play and whatever.

But like seven-year-old kids were getting into gangs? I mean, most neighborhoods, there are gangs affiliated to each neighborhood. And I have a lot of older cousins that chose that path. So I was around it for, I mean, too much for someone to be that young and understand it. I mean, I was just noticing the other day I was with my nephew and he lives in Brooklyn as well. And at his age, he can tell you which gang is from what neighborhood, which is too much information. I would rather him be able to name all the presidents that we had rather than to be that informed about his neighborhood. But unfortunately out there, you have to be aware of your surroundings.

So when I was young, I was able to, you know, understand what was going on just because I was exposed to it. Of course, which is a young age, but my dad was very adamant about us. not be in there long enough to see, you know, a lot more that we experienced at that time. Okay, so what would your dad do for living? My dad worked for EPS. Do you remember the conversation or was, were you too young for that conversation? Too young for the conversation. I just remember that we lived in like a small complex and there was like a big murder that

happened where it was like multiple people being like laid out on, like coming out on stretchers. it was a lot of news coverage and shortly after that I remember my dad letting us know that we won't be living there much longer So you moved to Queens which is like a completely different life Is it?

Was there a community center or are you out at the park When you're now you're starting to play You're eight, nine, ten years old? My mom went to the grocery store We first moved here And there was like Just like brochure for a basketball league That they had. It was ages from

There was like from six to nine, and then they had another league from 10 to 13 where you can play. And she brought home the pamphlet. We spoke about it. And I think that next Saturday I went down to try out for one of the teams and I've been playing ever since, organized ever since. Were you always good? Like, was it something like? No, I wasn't. Honestly, when I was really young from my age, I was.

exceptionally well. I play really good in this league. But when I like traveled around the city, you know, I was, when I like if I went to Brooklyn, we played against Brooklyn teams, I didn't do fairly well all the time. Or if you went up to the Bronx and played against the gauchos, you know, I had some some problems with them. Or if we played against teams like Riverside that was big in New York at that time, you know, I wasn't with the best dude on the floor. Right, Riverside Church. So, okay, so you get ready. Now you're getting middle school into high school. What program did you play with?

Well, I played for my dad. And my dad had a team that we put together. We were just like literally going around and finding kids. And we managed to put together a team for two years. And then I played for the Panthers and Long Island Lightning for about two years. What was it like to play for your dad? It was good. I mean, when I played, I was always like a really like big kid.

So when I played in other leagues, I played like the four to five. Even though I was pretty short, I was as bigger than everybody. So I always played the four to five. And my dad would tell me like, you know, you're not going to be that tall when you get older. And this is like the average side for a guard. So I want you to play for me and like learn how to, you know, be a guard instead of, you know, you're not going to get a, you're not going to have a chance to get a scholarship being a six three power. forward. So he would always say that. So playing for him was fun and it was also tough because he had to

like go to distance to show other parents that there was no favoritism even though I was the son. So I learned a lot playing for him. But it's it's super challenging. Like I play for my dad and now I coach my son and it's the like when he has a great game or he's really kind of improving and getting it, it's the best. But you also have to manage. You can't play favorites. You got to sub out sometimes, you know, you got to get into them. You know, you have a deeper relationship. You'll talk back to you some as well because he does know more than some of the other kids. Like it's a it's a completely different thing than having your guy, your kid play for somebody else.

Yeah, I didn't understand it at the time. I thought he was just trying to make an example of me. But as I got older and I just reflected on it, I was thinking about like, man, if I coach my son and the team that we had, all the parents were involved. They were at, they were at all the games. And of course, you want to see your son do well. So if there's one kid playing for his dad, you definitely don't want your son to be at some sort of disadvantage. So I think he did a good job at that. I was just too young to understand at the time. What was your high school experience like?

Well, my brother, my brother passed away when I was in eighth grade, towards the end of my eighth grade year. So high school, my first year, I ended up going to Holy Cross for one year, but I was so depressed for the majority of that year that I didn't even play. I was... Okay, so, so, so take take me through what happened, how it happened, and... My brother? Yes. Oh, my brother was a street, was a street dude. He was heavy in the crime. He loved it. He

thrilled. He thrived in that. He loved, like, putting fear into people, robbing people. at times. And he just loved that lifestyle. So, I mean, unfortunately, that lifestyle only ends two ways. Either you go to jail or you or someone catches up to you. And unfortunately, that happened to him. I remember I was going to pick up my cousin. And we stayed in a car for a little while because it was a lot of shots going on.

In Brooklyn, we heard like a lot of shots. It was maybe about like 10 minutes of like back and forth shooting. So we waited in a car for a while before. We went upstairs. And then once it stopped, we went upstairs. And I'll never forget. My cousin opened the door. He said, I'm surprised y'all alive.

I just heard about 40 shots outside. And we were like, oh, no, we were just waiting in the car for it to finish. And then we were coming upstairs. So that happened. We were just all, like, hanging out for a little bit. And then the phone rang. And I could hear my mom, like, scream. And she got, she got a call from my, my brother's, my niece's mom, my brother's girlfriend at the time.

She called. And I could hear my mom scream and tell us to like get like, hurry. Like, we got to go. We got to go. So we jumped in the car. My mom is driving insane, like through the busy, like New York streets to get to the hospital. So we were outside the hospital for about one hour, I think. And the doctors, you know, like the doctors kept coming out saying.

you know he's in critical condition but he's still breathing over trying our best it kept coming out maybe like every 15 minutes and i want to say about the last time he came out i was i was standing outside and i didn't know like that he that he pronounced my brother you know dead after a while but like i just remember my aunt like jumping and my sister passed out and then it was like a wave of emotion around like just a room. It was like an unbelievable feeling. And me being young, I was 11. It was like, it was hard for me to like understand what just happened because like my

aunt was hysterical. And my sister was like, she was like passed out on the ground. She was like, they had to put her on the stretcher. So I was kind of hard for me to like really feel that emotion because it was so much other things going on until, you know, later that night, we drove home after my parents saw his body and things like that. And I was able to really like understand that. My brother is not going to call me tomorrow, you know?

Big brothers. Big brothers are like, you know, it's like your dad. It's like your hero. Yeah. So, but what was it? But you also said that you life and putting fear in people. So, I mean, did you idolize him? What were your, before that?

And this is hard now, obviously, because there's still the emotions of him dying. But before that, what did you think or feel about your brother? Like, what was your, when people would say, say, oh, I know your brother or whatever, like, what was your opinion of? But the thing, the thing is, he never was like. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque.

Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games. and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win.

A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, This platform became bigger than I ever imagined.

And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment. And the next, we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger.

So, if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to The Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross

double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on The Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down,

and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table.

right now. Thank you for finishing that sentence. Yes. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history.

Listen to look back at it on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hard Way with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field. and conversations with so many incredible guests.

I'm talking. Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch.

Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross. Because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth. Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different. intentions, bro. Absolutely.

And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, is we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hardway. Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. That around me. So the personality he had when he walked outside and he was on the street is totally

different from. what I saw on a daily basis. Of course, you know, he was a big Iverson fan. So we, anytime there was a T&T game and a six were playing, he would make sure that he was around so we could watch together. He always spoke about hoops. And of course, I've seen times where he got into confrontations with people, or he handled the situation, not with like guns or anything,

but like maybe a fish fight or, you know, something that's not that. Like how it ended for him, but. Right. I never saw, you know, the kind of person he was on a consistent base when he was outside. I've only heard stories, you know, after he passed away about the things that he was about. Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in the nation. Catch all of our shows at Fox SportsRadio.com.

And within the IHard Radio app, search FSR to listen live. Beverage Sportsbook wants to invite you to discover the complete sports betting experience. The foundation of that experience is a massive number of betting options on nearly every regulated sporting event around the world. Add on top of that live streaming of sports every day. There's almost always a live match to watch on BetRivers Sportsbook right in your phone. BetRivers features top-tier customer service, ready to answer your questions anytime day or night.

Plus, they have this unique rush pay system, and BetRivers Sportsbook can authorize most withdrawal requests instantly. Customer satisfaction is always their number one priority, and BetRivers will match your first deposit up to $250. Now, unlike some other sportsbooks, Bet Rivers only requires a one-time pay-through to turn bonuses into cash, so you're going to experience the difference. Just go to bettrivers.com, you'll see it for yourself. You must be 21. It must be president in Colorado, Illinois, Indiana, or Pennsylvania to play. You had a gambling problem

called 1-800 gambler. Remember, BetR-R-R-S-B-R-R-S-D-R-S-com. When was the last time you seriously considered your dream? Did something never thought you would do? How about live the van life and a totally customized Mercedes-Benz Sprinter van? You could tour the country, whatever you want to dream up. And we're talking about Mercedes-Benz van here. Expect innovative safety features like cross-wind assist and blind spot assist. Expect performance and reliability with that MBUX voice command system. You're going to get five-star dealer network available with a gas engine.

Now you could win your very own Mercedes-Benz Sprinter mode 4x4. you entered the Dan Patrick show Ultimate Camping Rigs Sweepstakes. You go to Danpatrick.com or Fox SportsRadio.com, and there you enter, get official rules for a chance to win this beautiful Mercedes-Benz Sprinter van. Danpatrick.com or Fox SportsRadio.com and you have to do so by February 2nd. Your dream is waiting for you. Danpatrick.com, FoxportsRadio.com. Some equipment described is optional. Hey, all-ball community, listen up. Two of three men experience some form of hair loss for the time you're 35.

And it's one of those deals where you're like, what do I do? How do I avoid this thing? Is it smart? Don't be a statistic. If you're a little bald or a lot bald, fix it in a simple stress-free way. Try Keeps. What you do is a virtual doctor consult at keeps.com. And then the medications are delivered straight to your door.

Slow cost with treatment starting at just $10 a month. for FDA-approved medications, and they can prevent hair loss. Keeps has more five-star reviews than any of its competitors. And don't walk around with pattern baldness. We all know it's not cool. It just doesn't feel right. Prevention is, in fact, the key. So if you're ready to stop messing around,

you've got a new year, a new energy towards fixing the little things like hair loss, you want to prevent hair loss, go to k-e-e-p-s.com slash all-ball. You get your first month of treatment-free. That's k-e-e-e-ps.com. keeps dot com slash all ball so you're home and it kind of all sinks in and hits you that he's not he's not coming home um and you know your parents are a mess right as any parents would be obviously your sister how did you how did you deal with it how did you how did you process um I mean it was it was hard it took it took a long time I want to say it took a

about a year, a year in change for me to like to kind of wake up, you know. My brother was, my brother used to always call me. Like when I came home from school, he would ask me questions like, you know, how was school today? What did you learn? Or are you going to practice your ball handling? Or he'll mention something about like boobs and then like we'll have jokes. And he also had his own apartment at a really young age.

and I would go see him on the weekend sometimes, and we would just like hang out. Of course, he was 11 years older than me, and it was always like a great time for me. So, you know, when I got to high school, of course, my first day of high school, I'm around, you know, different group of people. I was looking forward to that call.

You know, there was some times where I had, you know, confrontations with people, and I would always want to call my big brother if it was bigger than what it should have been. And I couldn't. So those are the times where I had a relationship with him where I could share things that were him that I didn't want to share with my dad. So once the other things that was happening and I didn't really have anyone that I wanted to, I was comfortable enough sharing with. That's when I started to feel it the most.

But I really woke up when my freshman year finished and I got kicked out of school. What did you get kicked out of school for? Man, I was academically. I wasn't, I was non-existent. I was just going to school. But I had zero desire to be there. Why did you go to Holy Cross to begin with? Was that your parents picked that? Like, how did you?

There was a, when I played for the Panthers, I played for this coach, Lloyd Davey. And the night before, maybe like two, three days before high school was going to start, I was going to go to this public school that I ended up going to anyway. Springfield Gardens? Springfield Gardens, yeah, which had a really bad reputation. And I saw Lloyd, maybe like a couple nights before school started. And he was like, where are you going this year? And I was like, I'm going to Springfield.

And he was like, man, like, you can't go there. Like, that school is terrible. It's this, is that. And he's like, you know what? I'm going to make a call. And I'll call you tomorrow. And it happened fast like that. He called me the next day.

I had to, like, find a shirt and tie. I went. I sat with the principal and like the dean. And a couple days later, I was at Holy Cross. But you didn't play sports? not at all nothing so you're academically ineligible you flunk out of school

right you're you're and and I'm I'm picturing and tell me if I'm like your whole family like there's a fog over all you guys because you're brother yeah right and so you

you had to go back to Springfield Springfield Gardens what do you and you're playing like A you like what was your dad like to you with your grades being was he engaged at all Overs you still go ahead.

No, that was a tough summer for me. Of course, I had to go to summer school. I had to have the conversation with him about, you know, what paths I can go down if I continue living this way, about waking up, about being able to grieve and still live your life. Really big conversations I had with him. My dad worked at a group home for over 20 years where there were a bunch of kids parents didn't want them and he would he would take me there show me how these kids live

compare my life to theirs and what what they did and what what this kid you know how many times this kid was in trouble with the law where it would pass he's going to go down and it was it was eye-opening because I was I was blind to that I didn't know anything about like like just that group homes so he was telling me like this is where I work this is my second job these are the kids I'm around. This is where they're involved in. This is what I have to do with on a consistent basis. Now look at your life. Is your life anything like this? And I was like, no, it's not. And I think he one time he told me that he would let me stay the weekend up there with them just to see how it is. And I was like, nah, this is enough for me. And then, you know,

I started to get myself together. Um, okay, so this whole time, like, were you six three early? Like, did you grow super early? No, no, no. I was maybe like five, ten, maybe. When did your game start to come together? Because I know by your senior year, you were a star. When your game started to come together? My junior year, at the end of my sophomore year, I had a really good summer.

I played for a local team, New York City's finest. And the coach gave me the opportunity to play with at the time, like 15th and then I played on his team with the guys that were getting ready for college. I mean, I didn't play that much on that team, but I got to practice with them. I got to learn. I got a chance to feel like, all right, I'm young, but I have to prove myself. Like I felt like I had to prove myself all the time when I played with the older team. And I started to get accepted by them, like, maybe like towards the end of the summer, right?

Going right into my junior year, I just had like an amazing of my. of confidence is, you know, getting ready for public school basketball. And, you know, I started to pay really well. By your senior year, you're one of the best players in the city, right? Yeah. This is, this is 2006. So who else is big in the city that year? Man, Edgar Sosa was the best car in New York at that time. You ever think back? You ever think back, it's pretty awesome, right? Like, now you're a superstar. international basketball player, right? And you think of all of those guys who at the time were being judged as good as you or better

than you and guys you thought of. And like, again, I don't know what Edgar Sos is doing, but I know he's not doing what you're doing. Like, it is pretty amazing the snapshot of when we're 17. Like, I was thinking about this. I take pride this. When I was 12 years old, I joined a team and we won the national championship, like, the AU National Championship.

And, like, I went back in track. And I didn't play very much. And I went back in track and I was like, oh, I had a better run than that guy, the that guy, that guy, that guy. Okay, so is Edgar Sosa. Who else? Malcolm Grant, he went to Villanova, then transferred to Miami. There was a guard, Larry Davis.

He went to NC State, I think. I mean, I, Edgar's still playing. I guess still playing really well in Europe. Dwight Hardy, he's still. plays. He was really good. Eugene Harvey, he went to Seattle. Sure. Edgar was the guy, man. Edgar was the guy? Yeah.

Did you play against him? Did you play against him in AU? Nah, he played, he played on the, uh, I played on the Adidas. When I did play, I played for the student athlete Broncos and we played the Adidas. I don't know where to, uh, where the Galshows played. I think they were a Nike team. Yeah. No, we had that when I, when I came out. to or you just you didn't play against Nike's uh you didn't you didn't play against Nike teams or you didn't go play Nike events here's 2006 you ready yeah curtis kelly was considered the best player for sure you are here ed your sosa okay um lazar heyward yeah Antonio paink Antonio paena yeah the Larry days right labored Larry Day

John Mitchell. Yeah. Austin Wallace. Brad Sheehan, who went to Georgia Tech, apparently from Lath. I never heard of him. Let's see here. Vernon Teal. Vernon Teal was in 2006?

I think he reclassed, though. He reclassed. Because he was older than me, yeah. Antoine Pearson went to Manhattan. Yeah, went to St. Dombs. Tim Burns. I know can rank. Okay.

Andre Tarver, I'm asking you this because I went back and looked and, like, you were ranked the 44th best, yeah, 45th best player in New York, right? Okay, so why Hofstra? At the time, I was, I'm, this is the, this is my absolute truth. I tell the story all the time. That's what this is, by the way, that's what this is proud of for. We don't need, there's no reason you're not hurting anybody's feelings 15 years after the fact, right? Okay. Okay.

This is the true. Okay. Perfect. Okay. So, as well as I played my junior year, I didn't have one division, division one offer at all. Nothing. Why? Was it because of your grades your freshman year?

Or why? I don't know. Honestly, I don't know. And I didn't have any, I didn't get any letters from any big time schools. I don't even think there was there was one school that I knew if all fail I would go to. That's because of this relationship that I had and it was Kentucky State. There was a guy named Charlie that I grew up playing around. He always, you know, gave me, you know, a lot of praises.

He watched me grow up and he was involved with that school. And there was also a school of Long Island, Adelphi. that a high school coach I played it. I played high school school I played against their head coach was involved with that university. His name was Pittman. So those are my guarantees. If all fails, there's a possible chance that I can go there.

But of course, like watching TV, you want to play in the big time schools, you want to play Division I basketball. But unfortunately, that wasn't what was going on for me as a junior. So my junior yet is when you start, you know, you start taking the PSATs. And my best friend, he was, we were going to the college office in school. And they called both of us down there. And they were like, you know, you got to register for, you know, to take your PSATs.

This is important. This is about your future, XYZ. And my friend, he said to this lady, I'll never forget. He said, I'm not taking the PSAT. He said, when I graduate, I'm going to trade school. I'm going to graduate in 13 months. and then I'm going to start working. Now, in my head, I was just like, man, that don't sound like a bad idea because he

has an idea. He knows what he's going to do. So he has a plan. Yeah, he has a plan. And he was so confident in what he said. I was, I was thinking, like, in my head, like, man, that don't sound like a bad idea. Of course, I went on. I took the PSAT.

Me and my dad spoke about, you know, how important it is. And we watched, you know, basketball documentaries and stuff. about players. And I think Lamar Odom at that time had something going on with his SAT score that happened. So I always wanted to. Yeah, he flew out to, he flew out to, so, so Lamar, Odom was supposed to go to, uh, uh, UNLV. I was a UNLV? God, I forgot where he was originally going. Okay. But, but, but he actually flew out to L.A. and there was his high school, Linwood High School where he took the SAT and had the magic pen where all of a sudden he killed it in the S&P.

And so I think it was invalidated or something like that. I believe that was in my mind at the time since I didn't have schools. And of course, being in New York, like I remember that time, Edgar was already committed to Louisville. Kirk Kelly was going to Yukon, you know, and it was a league that was big in New York, ISA, And the guy on the microphone always like, he would big up players that pass scholarships. Like if Eggers score sometimes, he would say like Egresosa, Louisville for free. Like he would always like say stuff like that.

And I didn't, I didn't get that. You didn't get that love. Yeah, yeah. I wanted it, of course. But playing at Springfield, we didn't really get the big time, you know, recognition as like other schools. So I guess that's why I flew under the radar. but I didn't notice that until later. At that time, I was thinking, like, you know,

I'm not getting the scholarships offers that I thought I would from any school, let alone, like, D1, D2. I didn't get anything. So I was thinking, like, man, this is probably a better option for me to do the same as my friend. I don't know you're 6-3 point guard.

Yeah, at the time. Like, I don't, could you not shoot? Like, what, how do, or was it, were you just not in events? Like, how, how is, possible. I mean, I don't, I don't know. Honestly, I don't, I don't know how to. Okay, so, so, so, okay, so who the first contact you have with Hofstra was who and when? Um, David Dukes, uh, my, my senior year, like, and like I want to say about in December my senior year, we had, um, we had a, uh, this Catholic

school versus public school, like, invitation of tournament that we got invited to. and we played against St. Raymond's. And I played really well. We lost by four. Of course, Springfield versus St. Ray's. We were supposed to lose by 50 in front of a big, big crowd. But we ended up losing by four. We had a chance to win the game.

We missed the last shot and foul. And I want to say, we played Saturday morning. And Hofstra was at Springfield, David Duke at Springfield, Monday, like Monday, that Monday practice. He was there. So that was the first time. met him. And what did you think? When somebody comes up to you and says, hey, like, like what do you think about about Hofstra? No, but the funny thing is my dad, my dad, him and

my dad know each other. So my dad, my dad used to get Hofstra tickets for his kids at the group home. He used to take all the kids that behave well. He should take them to Hofstra games. So Coach Dukes was responsible for getting him the tickets. So my dad told me that he used to always tell like Coach Duce like you, whenever. you need him, there's a 6-3 guard that goes to Springfield. And he said, like, Coast Dukes never paid it, you know, much attention. He just was like, all right, whatever, and just, you know, gave him the tickets and, you know, went about his business. So when I first met him, the first thing he said to me is, can you shoot? And I was like, yeah, I can shoot. He's like,

well, let me see your shot. And he just rebounded a couple shots from me. And then we sat down, we talked. He, uh, he would tell him about the school. Um, The opportunity I have to play. And in my head, I was like, whatever. I know somebody, I know St. John's coming. Omar Cook was my favorite player. I wanted to play for St. John's really bad. Right.

So eventually Maris came on really strong. And then I got a phone call from Norm Roberts. Norm Roberts went to Springfield. And he was showing some interest in me. Like, you know, we heard about how you've been playing. You know, we're going to send someone. come watch you and you know we'll keep in contact but they wanted me to go to prep school when i was a senior there was a lot of my like friends or team guys i played against that was reclassifying

and going to prep schools all over the world and i wasn't a fan of that because i didn't like high school so i was like why am i going to one more year of high school which i don't like already and i don't like yeah so i mean i was i was 17 at the time and before like once i started getting like a couple of schools. My mom was diagnosed with breast cancer. And that changed everything for me. Hobsha's only 20 minutes away. My dad at that time was working three jobs. He worked at UPS at night. He did the group home from 10 to 6. And on the weekend, he started him and his friends started like a truck driving business. So I know that my mom was going to experience a lot of changes in her life and my sister and I, we decided that we would stay closer to home.

In case she needed anything, we wanted to be in driving distance of wherever she needed. And Hobsh is right there. Of course, you know, Big East and all of that stuff is cool. But, you know, my family is everything to me. It's only, it's only four of us that have a really, really tight bond. This is my mom, my dad, my sister, and myself. So how it made Hofstra have easy to see. It wasn't about, you know, basketball at the time.

It was about, of course, getting a scholarship, which my parents always pushed and being around for my mom. As far as the basketball, we had two senior guards that was Lawrence Stokes and Carlos Rivera, and we had one junior guy, Antoine Guilla, who, and they were telling me, you know, we're thinking about red shirt in you your first year. You know, you get to learn, learn how things are ran, and then, you know, going to your freshman year, freshman year, you'll be able to be an important part of the team. And I was like, you know, in my head, I was more like, you know, the scholarship is enough. But when I got to school, I was

really able to, you know, understand that what they were saying was true. So, so your first year, you're sitting there, you're watching, right? Yeah. That's hard. That's got to be incredibly hard, because you had a great senior year and you had choices to go to prep, which, granted, you didn't want to go to your high school or maybe go to one of these other schools and, you know, play right away. But, you know, your mom's dealing with stuff. What was that like to sit and watch other guys play for the first time in your life? I think it would have been easier if I went to another school. I mean, if I went to school out of town, because I'm from New York, I've been here, you know, all my life up to that point. Yeah. So a lot of, a lot of people were

coming to the games thinking that I would play. Now, if I was a red shirt that, that I know I was in like a suit or something or like team sweats watching the games, and it had been a lot easier. But the fact that I was dressed, I was on a layup line, I practiced, you know, all the punishment runs I was a part of. It was, it was hard to, you know, watch a lot of games, of course, games where, you know, we got blown out and they cleared the bench on games. We've blown teams out and everybody, you know, got the chance to play except me. So it was tough, but I was also maybe like half.

halfway through it, I knew that there was no chance that I would play. Like zero chance. I was able to just, you know, focus on what I needed to do for the next season. Do you remember how you guys did that year? I'm looking. I have, I just, I had the results. I think we, I'm not sure. I think we finished maybe first or second in the league, I think.

And I know. You guys lost your first three games. Yeah, I know. We lost our first three games. we lost that, uh, man, they had them,

it's a green and white school. Charlotte? Yeah, Charlotte. Yeah, we lost it. And then Manhattan, two green and white schools,

Manhattan. And then, they were saying that we had a curse of the green and white, yeah. Yes, because then you lost the Hawaii as well. Yeah, all green and white schools.

Yeah. Um, so you get that one your first year. Yeah. Okay? And now those guys, are gone, now you're going to play. And obviously, like, you're playing in the summer and you hadn't, like, played, but how

different was your game? Man, in high school, in high school, I was, I was bigger than everybody. So I was, you know, I got whatever I wanted. I was driving the majority of the time. I rarely shot jumpers. And I remember before, when I got to college, because Duke's would say, like, you know, you, yeah, you can drive. That's cool.

But at this level, they'll throw it in the stands. So we need to work on your shot. And that summer before my freshman year, when I actually played, I just stayed at school. I asked them, can I stay in August? I keep my little room and just continue to get in a gym because I knew when I came to Queens, I wouldn't have that kind of access to a gym I could be in every day.

And we had a graduate assistant, Tom Permanela, at the time, who was known. And when he was younger, as a really good shooter and we just spent a lot of time together talking um i didn't know i didn't know how to step into a shot like left right or right left i didn't know i will always hop then shoot so it was a lot of like muscle memory things that they used to do like coach would come like if i'm getting out of class coach i have a ball in his hand and sometimes he'll say left right tossed the ball in the air and I had to like step in left right so I will always think about it

and we will always practice it and once I was able to learn about the footwork now it was about you know fixing my shot you know not cocking it back too far shooting where I'm comfortable the right balance it was a lot of that going into it so I worked so much on it it created a lot more confidence for me because I was like okay now I'm comfortable enough to shoot it And I can drive as well. So going into my freshman year, we had Antoine Agudio, who was a really, really good score, really good shooter. And I was trying to just be the best rob and roll

that I could be because I had the opportunity to. So once it got time to play against those guys coming into my freshman year and practices, I was a lot more confident than I was the year before because I worked a ton on my game. Okay, so do you remember your first game when you actually played against, again, totally cross? Yeah, five points, nine rebounds. So, you know, like you got all those confidence, you're like, oh, this is, I'm ready, I'm straight.

And then you go score five points. Your second game, though, you blew up, right? Your second game, you have 19. Correct, correct. Correct. which one which memory is more vivid the holy cross of the manhattan i think the i mean it wasn't the game it was the conversation i have with the assistant coach after we play holy cross that was that's what i'm thinking about the most we have we um we were in the i went to his

office he called me in there it was i remember so it was weird but it kind of changed it changed my the way i was you know my approach to the game at that time of course i was super hesitant because I knew that Twan was the guy. And I never played with the guy before. You know, I've always been the guy, like up until, from, like, the last couple years from high school. So it was an adjustment to me. And I was so dependent on him that I was, you know, passing up a lot of opportunities for myself. And the coach called me to the office, Coach Matt, who coached at St. John's right now.

And he had the footage of all the possible chances I could have shot the ball. Look, you passed this up. you should have took this. Why didn't you take that? Why did you make this past? I had them to explain. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games.

Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win.

A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered. conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve

to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clivert Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me, or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to The Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs?

Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at a podcast. I'm Sam Jette. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick you here, unpack what we're. went down and tried to make sense of how we survived it.

Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack all day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack, so I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now, so. Then you're finishing that sentence. Yes.

I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hard Way with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, We get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it.

And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth. Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust.

I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Keer Gaines, is we have really. real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, learn the hard way. Open your free iHeartRadio app, search Learn the Hardway and listen now. And really tell them how I felt. And he asked me like, what are you afraid of? He said, are you afraid?

Why? He said, look at our bench. He said, if we take you out, you're the second best player on the team. It's not much longer before you back into the game. So he said you got to dare to be great. And I was like, man. And I was kind of looking at him like, is this like, are you serious? Are you talking to me?

And he was like, yeah, you have to. And he was like, it's going to start in practice. Like in practice, we're going to put you against Twan and you have to like, you know, get comfortable and being more aggressive. And, you know, the next couple practices I was, I mean, I didn't, of course, Twan would kill me all the time in practice. when I was a freshman. He would kill me. He would get the best of me the majority of time. But I felt comfortable making mistakes and looking at coach's reaction because it wasn't like I was

taking wild shots. I was never like a wild shot kind of player. It was just like overthinking mistakes I made. So once I was able to like get that amount of confidence from this associate head coach at that time, the next game I was way more comfortable and, you know, taking more shots and playing, like, without thinking. And the Manhattan game, I was, I was in the right spots. I made, I made all my open looks and started to play a lot better. And the kind of the light switch went on. The first time I saw, the first time I saw you play and was like, oh, this guy can play

was your junior year, you guys took on Yukon, right? and Yukon had Kemba. And I remember you, and Jerome Dyson, right? They had Kemba, Jerome Dyson, Stanley Robinson. Stanley Robinson, yeah. And you gave it to him.

You had 25 and 8 and 4, but your teams weren't as successful, so you weren't getting kind of the notoriety. What was, what do you remember? So your college experience, you obviously remember every conversation and every game, like all of us do.

What was that like to now, like you're growing into being a star. And yet, like, if it was now, it was 2021, everybody be poaching you trying to get you to transfer up level, right? What was it like at Hofstra, right? What was it like at Hofstra when Twan leaves and now it's kind of your team and your team's kind of struggling, but you yourself are getting better personally? And it was, honestly, it was fun just because I know how hard. it was me to get, you know, to a Division I club, you know.

It was really hard to get to a school. And it was even harder. My freshman year just to adjust to, you know, a different type of game. So I was more so looking at it like, man, I'm improving. I was more like noticing, of course, that we didn't have that good of a team. But individually, I was improving every year and giving our guys a better chance at winning almost every time. I was on the floor. So I was thriving in my opportunity.

My sophomore year, I remember coach put an amazing amount of pressure on me. So we had six seniors. And I used to shoot really early in the morning. And coach was like walking to, like, I don't know, he was going somewhere. And he stopped in the gym and he was like, I'm going to announce today that you're a captain. And I'm like, man, I'm a sophomore. Like, why am I a captain? Like, there's still a lot of things that I don't know.

But him giving me that responsibility, and I'm starting to notice that I was, you know, leading by example when I was getting the respect to the older people, it changed because then I felt that I had a responsibility for my teammates. Are you wasting two perfectly good Saturdays each year? Most people waste two Saturdays getting rid of junk that we could make magically disappear. We're 1-800 got junk.

We make junk disappear. All you have to do is point. Reclaim your Saturdays. Call 1-800 GotJunk. Or visit 1-800 GotJunk.com. And two smiling, happy people will magically appear at your front door. They'll be driving a clean, shiny truck. And they'll be wearing snappy, happy uniforms.

All you have to do is point, point, point, point. And that junk will be gone, gone, gone, gone. Hooray! You have a Saturday! Let the party begin! We make junk disappear! Don't waste two perfectly good Saturdays each year! Let us work our magic for you. Give us a call.

And we'll give you back your Saturdays. Call 1-800-GodJunk. Or visit 1-800.junk.com. If I could be you... And you could be me? For just one hour. If you could find a way... To get inside.

Each other's mind. Walk a mile in my show. shoes. Walk a mile in my shoes. Walk a mile in my shoes. We've all felt left out. And for some, that feeling lasts more than a moment. We can change that. Learn how it belonging

begins with us.org. Brought to you by the ad council. Walk a mile in my shoes. What grows in the forest? Trees? Sure. Know what else grows in the forest? Our imagination, our sense of wonder. And our family bonds grow too.

Because when we disconnect from this, and connect with this. We reconnect with each other. The forest is closer than you think. Find a forest near you and start exploring at Discovertheforest.org. Brought to you by the United States Forest Service and the Ad Council. Obviously, you played for Mo, your senior year. You played for Top Recur before that.

And now once you played, once you played as long as you played, you played for a lot of coaches. Right? You played for a lot of dudes. What's the best part about Tom Pecor, a guy who recruit you who you played. Yeah. I mean, I've learned so much from Coach Corp, not even from a basketball standpoint. I feel like just as like a person. I mean, there was so many at that time before he went to Fordham, they made me a part

of the subcommittee. So it was like I was a representative for, you know, all of, of the sports in school. And we would have, you know, meetings about, you know, how can we get more fans to the school? How could we, you know, improve things with the students? How could we make the athlete life better? You know, things about study hall.

So I would go to a lot of meetings and conference calls and things with him and on those rides. And we would have a lot of just conversations about life. He would talk to me about like being comfortable, being uncomfortable. Yep. He would always like tell me a lot of like little little things. I remember there was one time, um, we were at this like this, this dinner and I didn't

know anyone. He would say like, go introduce yourself, make your presence known. Tell him who you are. Say it with confidence. Or he would say, you know, there's sometimes you got to say hi to people you don't like. He would say, watch this. And I will watch him like go around the room and just network and greet people even though he had, you know, personal issues with them.

And they would, I mean, I learned that. And I would be like, and even like now when I'm, you know, in a situation where I'm in a room full of people, I will always think about, you know, those rides that I had with him because I used to be super, super just like closed off. Right. That's very normal, right? Like you're a college kid and these,

you have nothing in common with these people. You have no desire. But that's, to me, it's a lot of things about the college experience, which people don't. We do a bad job in the media. of explaining, you know, like, you know, I remember when I was at Oklahoma State, we went on a road trip to, like, my first year there, we weren't supposed to be good. So we didn't put, we only went on like a road trip to TCU and then we played Arizona State and Oklahoma City. So we were at like spaghetti factory and we were all messing around.

And we had a dude who, uh, who couldn't remember any of the plays. So we all put in all our per diem and we were betting whether or not he could, he could draw, all of our, like, just our secondary sets, right? And anyway, we got, like, super rowdy and there's food everywhere. And coach walks down to our table, and he gets so mad that when we go back, we actually had to go to, like, these, like, finishing school classes. I swear to God, like, we had to go and everybody had to get a coat and tie. We had to learn how to sit at a dinner table.

We had to learn, like, proper etiquette and all these other things. We're like, this is crazy. Why are we doing this? So stupid. Why are we doing this? And then, you know, like, again, 20 years later, you start to get that, like, the college experience isn't just about playing the games and trying to become a pro. It's about all these other things that you learn that, like, your parents don't,

not everybody's parents have time to teach them or have the financial resources to teach them, right? Or you're in a completely foreign environment, you know, and you have to be able to use your basketball in order to open up these doors to you. So it's amazing. Right? Yeah, that's crazy what she said that. Yeah. Now, now, Pecora had those nice suits, right?

He's a Jay Wright guy. Like, those guys always look clean. Yes, always clean, clean shave, good ties. Man, I had so many, like, good conversation with him. It's so funny that you brought up the etiquette class because I remember going, and I remember seeing, like, soup for the first time. And, of course, like, at home, if someone's eating soup, at home, they're sick.

I've never seen, you know, I'm even Yeah, yes. Yes! You only have soup you're sick, that's right. Yes. I didn't know they had soup outside of, you know, supermarket for Campbell's if you're not feeling well. So I remember the etiquette class and the salad fork

and how to shake hands. Like, Coach Pokore used to always tell me, look a man in his eye, meet him at the web, when you shake his hand. So that's, yeah, I learned a lot. So that's strong stuff. Okay, so, okay, so then, Pecora leaves, he goes to Hofstra.

To Fortin. That we seem to talk to Forteim, I'm sorry. Goes to Fordham. Like, you're going to be a senior, and this happens. What do you remember? What was going on in your mind? I remember we had study hall. and one of my closest friends to this day, Cornelius Vines, he was a senior, but he was like finishing up his classes before graduation.

He, there was this, so the CIA, the CA had this, this, like, this board. It was like a forum where, like, a lot of each school had their own form, and it's just people write in their opinions on the season. Sometimes I used to go there for motivation after I played bad. there was always somebody talking crap about me on there. And one time, he showed me like a, it was like an entire forum about Coach Bacora. And it was like, Coach Bacora was getting ready to go to Fordham.

He's leaving a hospital this year for sure. It was a whole forum of different people talking about it. But I didn't know if it was true or not. And we were still having our postseason workouts at that time. So it was kind of hard to, you know, understand if these were just rumors that was true because I was seeing him a lot. And everything was pretty normal. And the next week, it was like a Tuesday, I think, or maybe a Thursday.

He wasn't there the entire day. Didn't see him. Off his door closed. I'm asking everyone, like, where is you that? Like, he's out. He's out. And we had study hall, and I was, like, on the GA, just asking, where's coach? Call his phone right now.

I called him. He didn't answer. Where is he? Why he's not here today? And it was on ESPN, like the college. corner of course you know a small school we were always like in the bottom left corner yeah there was any news and it was like pecorah question mark fordham something like that and i clicked it and it was like pecorra's um should and they should announce that uh tom pecorah's going to be the new head coach

of uh um fordum and i looked at the ga and i said what is this is this true he's still telling me just do your work don't worry about it that's not true uh don't believe everything you read all right I let it go. The next day we had our team banquet. So of course he was there. This is like, you know, we, you know, giving our seniors their jerseys, let them give that last speech, have nice dinner, and we all go our second wave. The entire team is meeting in the locker room. We had our little players lounge and we were getting dressed. And at the bottom of the screen, it flashed Tom Picorra is the new head basketball coach at Fordham University. And everybody was just like super, just like what, like how? And I took a, I took a

personal because like I said I've been with coach all the time I've had many conversations with him I remember when I went on a had a crazy shooter slump he called me he gave he asked me if I wanted to go to the movies he actually if my girl was pregnant he was super helpful was at that time to try to you know to help me and to have a relationship with me so the fact that that happened I was pissed because if he would have told me it would have been you know better for me to just know rather than to find out watching you know ESPN so I remember being really upset about that.

Did they ask you about who you want to be the coach? Did they involve you at all? We had a meeting with the athletic director, Jack Hayes at the time. And I wanted Van Maken to be the coach just because he was there. And we will probably have this similar system. Everybody loves Coach Mack and we thought that he would get that opportunity. I saw Coach Mack, we spoke the entire time. He told me that he had an interview for it.

I saw him get dressed and walk into the office before. And then he called me the next morning and he said that they're going to hire Tim Welsh. And now I'm like, who the hell is that? Like never, never heard of him before. I had no idea who he was. And I remember just thinking like, man, my senior year, why is this happening? Like, why? Why can't we just, you know, keep what we had and, you know, after, maybe leave when I'm gone.

But, you know, they hired too much for about, I think, two months, I think. Yeah, he got the DUI, right? So, I mean, this stuff, this stuff is crazy because we look back now. And, you know, all you remember is, okay, Pekora leaves and he goes to Fordham, okay? And then you think of Mokasar. So there's that two months. So Tim Welsh comes in. And previous to that, he had been, I think, at Providence as an assistant.

Right? So you have no relationship with him. He comes in. What did you think of Coach Welsh when you met him? I mean, he was pretty cool. We went out to dinner. We talked a lot. He had me involved in like his personal life.

I don't know if it was like a plan or something, But he was always asking like, where's a nice neighborhood to live in out here? I don't want to be too far from the gym just in case you guys need something. And I remember being in point luck out with him a couple of times or after practice having conversations or, you know, who he thought would help us. And, you know, the opportunity the team had to be better and things like that. It was a short amount of time, but I felt like I had some, you know, know, like a say so on what was going on at the time. And even, even through that, we were getting a new strength coach.

And he had the like the strength coach sit down with me. And I had a say song whether we should hire the guy or not. So I felt really confident like, man, like, I mean, of course, all of the business stuff, I wasn't involved with Coach of Cicora, but like, for him to like do that and make my, my opinion so valued, I was like, man, maybe this is going to be, you know, something different. And I remember we had, I won the Haggerty Award my junior. And they had like Coach Bacora, like say great things about me. And then Tim Wells was standing up there too.

And he said, he said, you know, thank you, Coach Bacura. You've been an amazing host. He said, he said, you left me a great office. I opened up your closet and it was an amazing amount of ties that you left for me. Thank you. He said, but the greatest gift you left me was Charles Jenkins. And I was like, man, I was, I love you. That was a smooth line to me.

Like at the time, I was like, man, that was nice. Like, I didn't see it coming. Like, it was super smooth. And then, you know, I was happy about it. I was confident. A lot of my teammates were hesitant. Some guys wanted to transfer. They ended up bringing in Alan Griffin.

Yeah. I know him as Byrd because when I lived in Brownsville, he was getting ready to go to Syracuse. So I knew him since I was a kid. So I was really happy about that. Like, man, this is somebody I know for real. Like he can come to my house. My parents know him. They'll be happy to see him.

My families know each other. So I was super, super happy about him getting a job as one of the assistant coaches. So, I mean, everything looked promising until. with that Friday morning. Yeah, so Friday, so this is a Friday morning, right, in the, in the spring, I think, in the late spring, how did you find out, find out? We got like a, we got a message from the graduate assistant at the time. My man, Steve Racefell, and it was like mandatory meeting at, I don't know, maybe 11 or something, which was normally our practice time. manly no practice today mandatory meeting okay so we all walk in i had no idea but we had this this

uh hungarian dude that was graduating his name was miko zabo and he was already like laughing because he knew what happened but he didn't share he was just like oh you don't know what happened or you'll see but he was kind of like smirking about it and we uh the athletic director walked in and the president steward rbenovanovich and he was like um you know uh tim Welsh resigned. And we were like, what? I was like, what? How? How? What, what just happened? And that's, that's how they presented it to us. Like, you know, he resigned. And then after, like, guys were saying, you know, he, he fell asleep at the light. He was, he was extremely drunk. He's and he got bailed out this morning. But when he said it, I was just like, how? Like, I just,

I just spoke to him the day before. Like, how did this happen? And it still didn't register to me until we got outside. So I was like, welcome to my car. And then it was like the news 12 van was out there. And they were like, oh, you guys are from the basketball team. You want to ask you questions about your coach. Like how do you feel about him getting a DUI?

And I was just like telling the guys that I was feeling like, let's just get in the car. Like, just not go. let's not, you know, entertain this. Like, let's just get a car. So we got in the car, we drove off. And then, like, later that night, I watched News 12 and they had, like, their reactions from all the students that were so, you know, big, Hoshab fans all of a sudden because there was a camera in front of their faces.

And I was like, man, he really was, they had, like, his mugshot on TV. I was like, man, look at coach. Like, that's crazy. He was drinking and he got behind the wheel. That's kind of like, because it was like, Just the time of it was like, man, like, of course there are people that, unfortunately, drink and dry. But for that that happened to him was like, man, what's next?

Like, what else is going to happen? So, so again, now they could have hired from the staff or whatever. They bring in, they bring in Mo. Were you, did they ask you the second time around who you? No, they just, they just asked me how, because after that happened with Coach Wells, we had we had one practice we had one practice before they decided to who was going to be the coach so we were still practicing with the assistant coaches just coach who else wasn't there and I saw the president and he just asked me like how's workups going and I said oh they're going pretty good

but like just I don't want to say things are awful here I hate it of course like I was just like no it's okay all right and I met with the Athletic Director, I was trying to get Van Macon. Like, this is a sign. Van Macon should be here. And they were like, don't. And I was in tears because I'm like, I'm a senior. Now I'm like, I have no idea if he's going to come in here.

They were talking about Tim Kloos, and I heard Tim Kloos run his players to death. I was like, man, I don't want to go through that as a senior. And we had there. You would have scored, you would have scored a bunch of points. Probably, yeah. Then there was another meeting, and it was a little weird because the assistant coaches, you know, they were in like street clothes and Coach Mo walked in in a suit. So it looked super, it looked super weird because I never, honestly, I never spoke to Coach Moe when he was, when I first met him. I was just going back there, I would talk to Coach Griffin or I would talk to, you know, Tim Welsh.

Coach Moe walked in with the athletic director and he said, we're going to name Mokasara the head coach. and I had to start over. Like, hi, I'm Charles. I know I wasn't really open to you in the beginning, but it looks like you're the guy. So let's try to build a relationship. Fast forward to your, after your senior year, you're getting ready for the NBA draft.

Okay? What did you think? What was your agent telling you? My agent was telling me I'd get drafted. He didn't really have an idea where. I know I worked out. for about 14 or 15 teams. Some workouts were a lot better.

Some workouts I had, I really thought I was going to these teams. I worked out for- Like, what was your best? Your best, man, I killed it. Charlotte was my absolute best. Who else was there? What do you mean? Players.

Yes. I know Marshawn Brooks was there. They would, I think his name was La Darius Dunn. He went to, Baylor. Baylor. Laced area's done. Yeah, him. Darius Morris was there, and we had two bigs. I can't remember.

I think one was Trey Tompkins, and the other one was Nicola Busevich, I think. And I just remember winning almost every drill. I don't think I missed when we played the full court three-on-three. I play really well in front of Paul Silas. So I was thinking, like, our worst-case scenario, I'm going to be in Charlotte. in the back of my mind, but they didn't have, like,

they didn't have a lot of picks. I know they took Kimba, and I think they had like a late first, like in the 50s or something. So we had, he was getting feedback. Some teams wanted me to come back, but I had other work out scheduled that I couldn't go to,

I couldn't see a team again. I worked out really well for Detroit. I had a good meeting with them after. So where I really thought I was gonna go, if I had to bet was Detroit, I think it was. It was like 30. 33.

33. They took Kyle Singler. Yeah. Yeah. So, okay. Draft Night. Where were you? Draft Night?

I was in the W. Hotel with my family. Okay. And just those, you're four and your agent? Or did you have extended in? It was my mom, my mom, dad, sister, brother. My brother-in-law. my best friend, college teammate, and one of my childhood friends was there. So it was about eight of us.

Who's your best friend who was with you? Dequan bats. We've been friends since we were like four or five years old. Okay. So what Dequan think was going to happen? Was he like mine? I know you're going to. I mean, he's more reserved.

He's not the kind of dude that's like in your air. No, he's really observant. So he wasn't really feeding me anything. It was my college teammate, Nathaniel, Les. who thought that I should have been a lot of you pick if you ask him. Like, his reaction. Yeah. Like, every time a point guard goes, like, Nolan Smith gets trapped.

Like, oh, you better than Nolan Smith. Norris Cole was the first round pick. Like, oh, you kill Norse Cole. Corey Joseph goes, man, you killed him. What was going? Like, these guys are idiots, right? Yeah, that's exactly who he was that entire night. He was that.

because to me, I knew I knew I wasn't the lottery pick. So when the first round began, I think we were at like the mall or something. My parents was already in a hotel. My sister was there, but we were like at the mall in Queens. We weren't even in the city yet. And I was saying like, all right, maybe like around like the 17th pick, like we should start making our way to the city. So we drove, we got a parking spot, and then we made our way upstairs,

probably like around the time. I think Reggie Jackson just got picked. And then we started to watch. But it was like, it was tough because, I mean, my mom is there. She's being a mom, very supportive. And she's also, she didn't have much knowledge of like what's going on. All she was waiting for was to see, to see me on the screen. And, you know, Jay Billis had the best available, you know, picks.

And from after like the lottery, I was at like 10. And then I went from 10. And then me and Josh Shelby was like one and two. So seeing that at the bottom, but my name is still not being called. It's like, yeah. And I'm like, damn, like, what? How? Like, why is this going on?

But there's also an amazing amount of pressure around the room, too. So I want to like stay composed and look like I'm not frustrated, but also want to like have my own like reaction to what's going on. But any reaction I had, someone in the room already expressed it, whether it was like a, or damn, not yet, or what's your agent saying? Like sometimes somebody were, like, questioning my agent and stuff. And me and my agent were, like, texting back and forth at the time. And I was saying, like, man, I feel like you lied to me.

Like, this is not happening. Like, especially at the 40s. I mean, I met with Golden State in Chicago, but I didn't get a chance to work out for them. So I definitely didn't think that. I didn't play that well in the Minnesota workout. I know they took Malcolm Lee, and I wasn't like. ecstatic about that. I was just looking at the teams left and I'm like, man,

it's only about 20 picks left. Like something's got to happen. I knew 100% I wasn't going to be a Laker. But it's so much going on at the time. I couldn't really like capture my own emotion because my family was so animated the entire time. So, okay, so who did you get the call from? I got the call from my agent. He was on the phone.

He was like, you know, you got it. have to prove yourself, they made a mistake. And we're going to prove that they made a mistake. He hung up the phone. And my family was all like, at that point, they were all like drained and just reacting to everything that happened. And I was just like standing up.

And before like Adam Silver said it, I just had like a bottle of champagne. And I like, I was so mad though. I was so mad. I had a bottle of champagne. And I just like threw it on the ground and it just exploded everywhere. And everybody was like a shock like, are you okay?

Like it's okay, don't worry, it's gonna happen. You're gonna get out of this. And while all of this is going on, Adam Silver is like with the 44th pick. And they called my name within a room just like went, went crazy and my phone went from probably five messages to like 300 and something. It was crazy.

Back when people left, voicemails. Yeah, back on voice, yeah. Back and back when people left messages. Yes, nobody's. these messages. Nobody listens to voicemails. Then we returns voicemails. It's just a text.

It'd be back. All right. That's part one of my talk with Charles Jenkins. We'll drop part two. A couple of days. We'll let this one kind of simmer for a little bit. It's really, really good stuff. I do want to say this in regards to the Russell Westbrook trade. I've talked to enough NBA people.

They're like, look, that dude is so crazy competitive. He pushes guys, pushes guys. LeBron does the same thing. So there's obviously an attraction there and he can make plays off the job. We can create shots for other people. Russell Westbrook is a tremendous player. But does he fit the Lakers?

No. No. He's a high volume low-make shooter. Who needs the ball in his hands? We need Anthony Davis get the ball. We need LeBron to have the ball. Yes. Could he be given, you know,

the second quarter or whatever to kind of do his thing. But they're going to need so much more shooting around him. Now, the one thing about Russ as opposed to Ben Simmons is like at some point, you do have to take these shots. And there's a lot of good there. I just, I don't know how they're going to get enough other pieces. He's also older. He's had three knee surgeries.

LeBron's had his first couple of injuries he's ever had in his career. not because there's something wrong with him. You get to your mid-30s and things start to break down. Plus, Anthony Davis is the youngest of the three, and he breaks down all the time. So I still want to see what they put together around them, what they're able to, they've got to sign and trade Dennis Schrooter,

and they got to find a way to move some pieces around. But I don't love that mix. And they're all friends, and we all buddies. They'll get, like, when does that work? Didn't work with Westbrook and Hardin. They were buddies. you don't have to love the guy that you're playing.

You had to love playing with the guy, but not necessarily love him off the court. I don't know. I don't love it. I don't love it. It's very, very interesting. You know, they were going to hire Scott Brooks as an assistant. They didn't.

So now you have a coaching staff that hasn't coached to be there. That's really interesting. All right, you will love part two. If you love part one, if you didn't love part one, you'll love part two, I guarantee it. You can listen to the Doug Gottlieb show daily, three to six Eastern, 12, 3 Pacific,

on these station. on your Fox Sports Radio stations or on the IHeart Radio app, you can also download that podcast, and that's, of course, all sports. Thanks so much for listening. Don't forget to write a review. Download, subscribe, rate, tell a friend, tweet it out.

I thought it's pretty good. Thanks to Charles Jenkins. We'll get to part two next. I'm Doug Gottlieb. This is All Ball. Get right to the romance and find the way to wow this Valentine's with 1-800flowers.com. From classic roses and bouquets

to decadent chocolate-covered berries, gourmet treats, and more. Surprise your Valentine with 1-800flowers.com. Right now, get the 18-stem enchanted rose medley for $3999, or upgrade to 24 red roses for $10 more. Go to 1-800flowers.com slash tune-in. That's 1-800flowers.com slash tune-in. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy,

not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends, me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes.

Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all,

embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying.

Yep, that's me, Cliford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfilled conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to The Clifford Show on the IHeard Radio app, Apple Podcast,

or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network, on TikTok. On The Look Back at it podcast. From 1979, that was a big moment for me. 84 was big to me. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English.

Each episode, we pick a year, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. With our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite authors. Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s. 84 was a wild year. It was a wild year. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Listen to Look Back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your. podcasts. This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed human.