The Herd with Colin Cowherd - All Ball- Former Wichita State Star Ron Baker Gives Exclusive Insight Into Gregg Marshall Player Abuse Allegations, Program Culture, Speaking Out

Episode Date: November 25, 2020

In this episode, Doug is joined by former NBA guard and Wichita State star Ron Baker discusses his path from rural Kansas to starring at Wichita State, the Shockers undefeated regular season, Final Four run, and opens up with exclusive insight into the good and bad of his experience playing under former Wichita State Head Coach Gregg Marshall, including his first hand recollection of Marshall allegedly hitting Shaq Morris in practice. He also talks about his NBA experience, playing in Russia, and what's next. Make sure you download, rate and subscribe here to get the latest All Ball Podcasts! Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifers Show. This is a place for raw, unfilled conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to the Clifford show on the I Heart Radio app,

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NutraSystem.com slash thin right now and get 50% off plus an extra $50 off your first month. You heard me right. Go to NutraSystem.com slash thin right now and get 50% off plus an extra $50 off. Don't wait. This partner plan offer will not last long. Just go to NutraSystem.com slash thin right now and get 50% off plus an extra $50 off go to nutrisystem.com slash thin see website for details on our two-month subscription offer no purchase necessary open only to us residents over 21 voidware prohibited runs December 25 through April 4th 2022 for official rules visit nutrisescom sponsored by nutrisesystem inc hey what up welcome in I'm Doug golly band this is the all new all ball all basketball all-and-time this one's a really good one Ron Baker superstar all-American all-solar system at

Wichita State, the Fada 4, the perfect season, the Sweet 16. But also, he was there for, you know, five years of Greg Marshall. And he's got an interesting perspective. He said some things I did not know he would say. And he wanted a chance to kind of clear the air and give his thoughts on what really happened and where he is mentally and emotionally with his basketball program. And really, really interesting stuff. So do we want to get to the NBA draft?

Yes. Yes. And I'll do a pod. We'll get to every pick. Literally every pick. Once I like, once I don't like and what you can expect. Then we'll get to NBA free agency. Lakers doing quite well.

I don't think the clippers are bad or anything. I still think there's some adjustments they need to make. And maybe we learned something about what they thought was wrong, with Montrez-Harrell going down the hallway. But we'll see. I'm not as big on Portland as other people are. I get the Gordon-Haward thing, but you're also not signing up for winning.

You're signing up for more money. That part is interesting. So we can talk some NBA on a different pod. We can also talk college basketball, which is supposed to get underway today, the day of which this pod drops. But there's so many cancellations that does it really, really make sense to me to break down every team?

Not yet. We will. Well, me like you, I'll watch a ton of hoop. I give you all my thoughts and some trends and we'll continue to have outstanding podcast. But I want to talk about this one with Ron Baker, who I got a chance to meet along his journey and his basketball journey appears to have come to an end. So let's get after it. This is Wichita State Star Guard, of course, formerly of the Knicks and the Wizards

and of SESCA Moscow, Ron Baker. All right, let's welcome him in. He's the legend, not just of Scott City, Kansas, but also in Wichita and in New York. And in Moscow, he's the one and only Ron Baker. Okay, let's start the beginning because I was there when we first met was in Salt Lake City. I remember you guys were getting ready to take on Pittsburgh in the first round, the N-Sate, Sherman. And you hadn't played the whole season because you were hurt part of your freshman year. I was talking with Greg Marshall. And he was like, man, I'm telling you like this guy, we had no

idea he was going to be this good. Growing up in Scott City, what was, I know you're a great football player. Did you play baseball as well? Football and baseball. Actually, a baseball family. My brother plays college baseball down the road here at Emporia State. And my dad played college baseball at Fort Hays State. Mom played college softball. So some people would say I'm the outlier. I missed everything up. Maybe you're just actually an athletic family. Yeah. Yeah. And then in high school. Okay. So growing up like, you know, I grew up, we had youth teams and then it became travel basketball. And then, you know, at the end, it was AU basketball, but not like it is now. Sure. Growing up, was it a wreck team? Like how did you, how did you play basketball growing up?

Elementary was all wreck-based, didn't travel a whole lot. If we traveled, it was mainly during the winter. And we had a thing called M-A-Y-B, which was like similar, maybe on a smaller spectrum compared to like an AAU. So you'd, you know, go to like a Saturday in the winter to a local town and play against, you know, four or five teams. That's basically. And then once you get into middle school,

you start playing your middle school sports. But yeah, I was three-sport athlete. And then were you big growing up? We like, we always, I mean, you're like, you're a big dude. So were you like the biggest kid in the court? No, no, no, no. I was five, eight, a buck 40 in my freshman year in high school. One of those late bloomers.

I think I grew probably four inches in my junior year. And that's why I didn't play AAU because I thought I was going to play baseball. I mean, when you're six foot, you're thinking throw, you're, you know, thinking baseball. But once I got into the AAU circuit, that junior summer going to be. senior, that's when I focused anything on basketball. What position in baseball? Shortstop pitcher. Of course.

Of course. Small town there, right? Everyone's up in the lineup or a cleanup guy? Badded mainly three or four hole, yeah. You drop bombs? I mean, you just cry, where you had... Yeah, I hit a couple. Hit a couple in my day. Nothing, nothing to, you know, hang your hat on. And then football,

you're a really good quarterback. I mean... Worked, free safety, yep. Which did you enjoy better? I mean, quarterback or free safety? Offenses always, I would say, more fun. Yeah, but free safety, you get to lay people out. Free safety, that's where I was probably my best at. Because as a free safety, it's kind of the same role as your quarterback.

You see everything and you're communicating the most. And I really enjoyed free safety. Probably a little more than quarterback, actually, because you see everything. See, we started this 30 seconds ago. It was quarterback. because it's offensive. I kind of like, the more you think about it,

free safety, too bad. Now, didn't you throw like a game-winning touchdown pass in your last game? Not the last game. No, that was a, that was a routing by Smith Center.

If you look them up, they're usually pretty good at football. But, no, no last second TDs in my career. You might be talking about high school basketball. Oh, high school basketball.

Game winning, game-winning putback, yeah, the state championship. Where was the state championship? Hutch. You know, Hutch and junior college? This is where all the, yeah, the junior college there where they have the national Jucco tournament every season.

So at what point in your, when you start playing the AAU circuit, did you start to try and figure out what you wanted to do and where you wanted to go? My first AAU game was against the St. Louis Eagles. I'm sure you've heard of Ben McElmore and Bradley Biel. That was kind of an eye opener, leaving Westwood, Kansas and going against those two. But once I started getting confident that summer and playing against that type of player, having good games, I think I just kind of dragged me to, you know, dedicating myself to basketball. That was kind of, it was more mental. Like you can be good at something, but once you actually taste that success confidence, then it starts to drag you in that direction.

And that summer is kind of when I definitely made a decision like, hey, mom, dad, basketball is. what we're going to do. So let's focus more. What they say? They just wanted me to be who I was and be myself. And I felt basketball was where I was leaning towards. So what's the real story behind the Wichita State thing, right? It was because how great pitched it to us back then was,

hey, we don't have a scholarship, but you come, walk on for a year. And then, you know, five for four, which they'd registered and they put you on scholarship for four. What was the actual conversations like and how did it come to be? So Chris Jans was the guy that recruited me, the head coach at Michigan State, at New Mexico. Yeah. He had actually come and watched me at Hutch play in the state tournament, and then Marshall came with him to the state final. And they were big fans of mine. Coach Marshall's father-in-law was actually the one that was pitching me the most.

He was such a big fan of me. He was telling these two coaches like, hey, this guy, we got to get them in here. They'd already maxed their scholarships out because this is, I'm a senior and this is first week of March, right? So, I mean, everyone's pretty much committed or already giving out their scholarships. South Dakota State, Arkansas Little Rock had already offered. And I was, you know, wanted to stay more close to home. came on a visit here unofficial pretty much cut and dry they kept it a hundred with me they said

you know we've already dished out our 12 scholarships 13 scholarships whatever it is and you know we'll need you to pay your way this first year like it is what it is we don't have any scholarships obviously but we want you to be here and I remember my parents being with me on my visit and they just adored those two guys jans and Marshall just how they treated them, really enjoyed the process of being on a, you know, Division I campus that's in your state and going through Cokerina and joining the visit. And it just felt, just felt natural. I remember on the ride home, I told my dad, I was like, man, I want to do two things when I'm in college. One, I want Bob Knight to know who I am. Two, I want to, you know,

make a run an in-state tournament. And we got about halfway down the highway, and he's like, all right, you're going to Wichott State. I was like, yeah, Bill's right. And that was it. Cut and simple. Why did you want Bob Knight to know your name? He was on TV at the time?

It was like right when Bob Knight had shifted and started calling like the big Monday games and the Big 12th. Yeah. And just really enjoyed, you know, listen to him. Obviously, historical coach, just really kind of enjoy. the, you know, the sound of his voice calling games and was always just a fan. How long does that drive? A little under four hours.

Talk about tough, tough weeknights for the folks, being school teachers. They made everyone? Three, two, three in the morning. I think they missed one game in my four years that I played because it was. Did they come? So you're freshman or you red shirt, right? Yeah. Did they come to the games even though you redshirted?

Yeah, it came to a couple games. You know, the major games, you know, Creighton at home, a couple non-conference games, but not regularly like they did those next four years. What was that like for your redshirt? The redshirt year was, it was tough because we had six or seven seniors, I think, on that team. So, I mean, I was getting bullied every day, turning it over, questioning like, man, this for me, like every, every athlete, when they make the jump from, you know, high school to college, I feel like, unless you're, you know, a McDonald's All-American, you go through

a somewhat of a struggle. Even McDonald's All-American. Like, I was not a McDonald's, but I was, like, slightly below, right? Yeah. And I'm just telling you, like, I got my ass kicked every day. We had, we had, like, six guards that, I mean, probably four or five of them were pros the next year and still are pros. So, I mean, we had a really good team.

that year. Lawson and say tournament to VCU first round. So I mean, great learning experience. Like, I never thought playing a sport. You obviously learn a ton, but when you get a watch all the time and you're,

you're, you know, let's do another game. Like, you can really dive in and learn a lot. I would say the most I ever learned. So when I, when I,

I went to Notre Dame and when I sat, I sat out a year at junior college. And like the irony to it was I wasn't even considering Oklahoma State, but the Sutton's, my dad had worked for Coach Sutton at Creighton, like back in the 60s. So Sean called me because he sat out for a year and didn't go anywhere either. So I didn't go anywhere. I went to junior college and I practiced with the junior college team but didn't play. And then I actually helped, I coach some during games.

And then I helped out my high school some. And but Sean had said like, you should watch games and watch them now. And after you play college basketball for a year and it's a completely different experience. Really opened your mind up. Yeah, you're just like, oh, shit, that wasn't supposed to happen. Right, exactly. And so I, and then after playing, I played overseas for a couple years. I actually did a couple games, but my first year of calling games for ESPN,

I remember doing some games and thinking to myself, God, I wish I did this when I played. And then I went back and played in France after, after championship week. This is in 2003. and I remember, or 2002, 2003, and I remember thinking like, oh, this is crazy, how much easier it is. Because you see things, like now you've played for four years. You think the-

Play professionally, and you see him, you're like, oh, my God. Yeah, that you feel like the floor doubles in size. Yes, yes. You know where everything's supposed to be, it slows down, yeah. Okay, so you start to play your freshman year, and you're good. Your team, again, pretty talented, really talented. And when you broke your foot, Was it just sore?

Was it swollen? It was like eight, I'm going to say like 18 games and it's your conference play. How did you know you broke your foot? So we, the tricky thing to this, it was the 10th game in. We just lost at Tennessee. And to get a medical red shirt,

I think that was the number that you couldn't play, right? So that's part of the story of why I tried to, you know, make a comeback that season. I had a stress reaction in my nubicular. Worst, worst bone. in your foot, they say, at least from the doctor's perspective, that you want to injure.

It has like the least amount of blood flow in your foot. So I'm getting all this information. I'm like, man, I just sat out an entire year last year. And now you're telling me I got to sit out another, you know, 12 weeks. And just as a 20 year old, you're just like obviously disappointed. But trying to, you know, keep it glass half full. Like, all right, you know, I can be supportive. I can learn another year.

by watching and it was about to 12 weeks the way it fell was right on the instate tournament and like all right let's let's try and push for 11 because 11 because the the way the the valley was working back then our turn working valley Matt yes earlier it was always early so we're like man we got to push this you know let's try 11 weeks let's try 11 weeks and our trainer of course is like I don't know like I don't want to put this pressure on run like this is his body. So we end up coming back. Oh, I think my first life practice was the Monday before the Valley tournament. And felt fine, good, good to go. And then just took off in the Valley tournament. Played well against Missouri State the first round. We beat Illinois State and the

semis and then ran into my buddy McDermott and finals and probably played them the best we had played throughout the season. And it's crazy to say, but even losing to Creighton, I think, aided us going forward into that insane tournament. So you guys play Pittsburgh, and do you remember the call that kind of changed that game? The Pittsburgh game? Yeah. Pretty sure it was when I got elbowed, no?

Yeah. Yeah. So you're guarding Lamar Patterson. Yeah. He actually went by you. Yeah. And he like chicken winged you. grazed me right across the chief.

And I actually went crazy calling the game just because he didn't do it on purpose. But the way the rule was written, like that was a flagrant. And so it gave him his third foul. And they couldn't really score. And so you guys made your free throws. And then, you know, they just kind of, you guys just took off just boat raced them, boat raced. Yeah. After the, I think after the first TV timeout in the second half is when we started.

taking our run there. Yeah. And then what was kind of fascinating was, I can't remember if that was the first game. And then the Gonzaga was, was Gonzaga after you before? You called both their games. You called the pit game.

No, no, I know. But I'm saying did Gonzaga play after you guys? I can play after us against Southern. And it was tied with four minutes to go. I'm like, they're about to lose. I know. Spiro Ditas is my partner, right? And this is my partner.

first NCAA tournament games and I'm calling. And we're sitting there and there's like four minutes to go. And you know how that that deal gets where all of a sudden you were the one seed, you know, the next year where all of a sudden. That pressure. Everybody's going crazy and they're Southern fans. Every one in the crowd. Every single person.

Yes. And we're sitting there going to call the first 16 one upside. Holy shit. Holy shit. Oh, okay. Keep it together. Keep it together. Let it breathe.

Keep it together. Right. And Gonzagg ends up winning the game. and what do you remember about prepping for Gonzaga? I just remember prepping for, was it Ryan Anderson and then Olenic? Like we felt like those two were just dominant that entire year. Those two were like we pretty much put our whole defensive strategy against them. Our back court was pretty solid defensively that year.

Obviously, Pango's was pretty talented. I forget the other kids. Gary Bell, but he got hurt. Yeah, he's hurt. That's right. And then other than that, like, we felt pretty confident in the back course, so we focused a lot on those two bigs.

And, man, they were pretty dominant, I'd say, till, like, the 12-minute mark is kind of when we made our little run in the second half, and everything was quick, man. Like, even if we had, like, a bad possession, we'd somehow manage to, you know, get a foul or get a, you know, I'm picturing Fred, you know, isolating Stockton right there by our bench, like lost the ball, just everything clicking.

Corner three by me, you know, the ball was moving. We got some good stops. What did you think of Fred at that point? I knew he was, he was here. He was definitely here. He's always been the guy, like, mentally knows a game, mentally tough. He just, he was raw that first year, especially, especially D.F. I remember coach always, you know, challenging him and practices.

And that's where I felt like he might have struggled a little bit his freshman year. And coming off the bench and, you know, backing up, Armstead was huge for him because Mal had been maybe not the NCAA tournament, but Mal had been in some big, you know, college games throughout his career. He was old and confident. Right, absolutely. Nothing to lose, really, you know, coming to the state tournament. So I definitely think Fred learned a lot from him.

But yeah, Fred was a little raw, but obviously blossomed the more we got to play together. When you close your eyes and you think about the Final Four, what do you remember most? This might sound funny. I checked out of the game, my first, I got my first breather. And I remember just sitting, it's like kind of sitting at a table, right? You're sitting in your seat, the floor is elevated. And I remember looking like up into the craft. Because that was the first time I've ever played in a, you know, football stadium.

And I'm like, man, every seat in this place is full. And there are people so far away, you couldn't even see them move. And I'm thinking, why the hell would someone pay $400 to sit way the hell up there and watch a final four? And the second memory was that was the first Final Four in my lifetime that I never watched because I was in it. like how special is that for you know a kid from where I come from and just that resonated that that first game that we played there if you could do if you could do something different I knew you was going to ask that well I'm just I'm just that because because again like you are it's you know how you watch you like you don't remember the wins you remember some of the wins

but you remember the losses in the moment's like oh shit if I would have just done this right yeah The three at the top of the key for sure. Huh? The three at the top of the key in the second half. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential.

Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying.

Yep, that's me, Cliford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music.

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Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam Jek. And I'm Alex English.

Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you for finishing that sentence.

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For sure. For sure. Did it feel good? I was just too unselfish. Dumped it down to our big and he got fouled. He got fouled. put dang in foul trouble, but that could have been it right there, man. That could have been it.

Carl Hall's here in town and we go play pool on Thursday nights. He brought that up the other day. He's like, bake, man, you could change one thing. I wish you would have shot that, man. Yeah, trust me, I know, bud. Shoot your eight ball. Let's get this game over. Come on.

Is he good at pool? Not bad. He can't get baked, but he's pretty solid. He's pretty solid. He's doing good, too. He's doing good. I mean, that whole story, like, he shouldn't have him playing basketball, right? Like, dude had a hard problem.

I mean, literally, like, hard problem. And they're like, should he be clear? Like, eh. Yeah, give him another year. Come on, we need him. Pretty amazing, though, right? Like, the guy literally is not supposed to play basketball ever again. And somehow, and his mom was the one who pushed for it, right?

Mom's like, let's find a doctor who's going to clear him. Yep. That's how at least the story was told to me. That's pretty incredible. He was bought in about getting that last year with us. He was the heart and soul of our team that year. If you said, Wichita State, everything really stemmed from, you know, his approach and his physicality, for sure. Adoption of teens from foster care is a topic not enough people know about and we're here to change that.

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And they see you. Their fearless guide is this fascinating world. Find a forest near you and start exploring at discovertheforest.org. Brought to you by the United States Forest Service and the ad council. Is there a stronger bond with that group or the undefeated group the next year? man the undefeated group was you know basically we all had minutes on the you know the final 14 and i i don't say this lightly i think the the bond was better maybe in the the uh undefeated year because i think to kell cotton started flourishing and he was the heart and soul of our

team and really brought us in together. And plus, it's kind of weird going through a season and not being able to learn from a loss. You know, those moods and practices after loss, like, you know, a tough practice.

Like, we never once. There's usually, usually, I remember, here's, this is probably help you. Or make your point even clear.

My first exhibition gave it Notre Dame, and we lost to some German professional team. And, like, we had filmed the next day, like seven in the morning. And they had some big centers, was like seven foot and he was every time somebody come through lane he just club him and you know

john mccloud the late john mcclough was like Notre Dame we're immature Notre Dame this is soft somebody hits your guard you hit him right back right next time all right so what happens after you lose is everybody gets reamed in film and then usually somebody gets there's always a fight right the guys they get yelled at they're tired to get and yelled at they're tired you've been around each other a while and there's like a like a fight like I remember Oklahoma State. We'd lose, you'd lose a couple of games in a row, and there's a fight. Did you have any fights?

I've never been on a team when there was no fights. There was no fights ever in practice. We had a defeated here, do you have any fight? Undefeated here? I can't remember. What's there to fight over? You're kicking everybody's ass. I don't, I don't recall any fights.

We had a, we might have had a couple, you know, situations of final four year because we lost like three straight, I think, in Valley Play, which is just a big, big, no-no, especially when a couple of them are at home. So that year was a little chippy, but no, after that, it was pretty smooth sailing in our locker room. What do you remember about the Kentucky game? I swear no one could miss. If they didn't beat us on the glass, then it was game over. They just, when you play Julius Randall at the three, I mean, holy moment.

And I mean, people weren't shooting the three. I don't think like that, as they are now, especially in the NBA. But, you know, the biggest thing I remember in that game was Julius Randolph. checking into the game and he was playing the three and we had Evan Wessel on them. I look over at their bench and CalPair is just like, post Julius, that was the play call every time down. I'm just like, oh, God, I feel bad for you, Wessel. Hang in there, man.

Yeah, they just killed us on the glass. James Young, twins all have good games. I mean, we have, you know, Fred, had a decent look at the end. All you can ask for in those situations, a comic basketball game to the same. day, you know, grateful to be a part of it's, it's amazing because I went from like your guy's biggest supporter. And then at the time, like one of the things that I feel like I, I always have done is like, you can't tell if I'm a fan of somebody or not a fan of somebody. And my thing on you guys being in one seat was like you just hadn't played in the big 12. Yeah. Right. So there's,

there's no metric for it. Right. And this is what's funny. God forbid you do your job, right? You got to You got to give analysis on situations like that. And you're not going to please both sides of whatever comes out of your tweet or mouth, right? Well, I will tell you, there are many who do that job who just everything is great. And it's the, it's the. Like the Jay bonuses of the world. I think Jay is the more critical. I would say Vital.

Okay. And generally CBS, like I was at CBS. I was like the first guy to ever like question things or whatever. And they were like, what are you doing? Why are you so negative? Like, I'm not negative. I'm just being kind of honest. Not everything is the greatest ever.

Right. I think the only, what was our, like our best win that year was probably at St. Louis. I called that game. Yeah. And they just dropped, they dropped some games like the 8-10 that they should know, and that hurt us probably.

Right, because then you start doing the, well, who did St. Louis beat thing? I was like, I was there. I think it was either NFL playoff Sunday. It wasn't super. It was because the Rams were in town. Yeah. And so there was, it wasn't very many people there.

It was a Saturday afternoon, too. It wasn't it Sunday. No, it was. That's why you called it because CBS called Sunday games. No, but it was, it was a sports network game. It wasn't a CBS game. But I remember, I distinctly remember that game. And I was like, look, I was there. And it just didn't feel as though it was just, it was just, it's a hard metric to, what would you do in the Big 12?

What would you do in the Big 10? Because you have a bad night in the Big 12. and they got a pro who beat you, right? Whereas you do it in the, in the valley, and you guys had three pros. So, you know, you were able to withstand any sort of bad night. But what is that like to win the Valley Championship and you have zero losses, like the perfect season?

What is, and in high school, you even lost one game. Right. People do it in high school, not in college. What was that like? I thought it was pretty special, obviously. I mean, I think the last team to do it. it was what Greg Anthony with the UNLV team

and what Bob McS team with Keith's Miracle shot Yeah that wasn't Greg Anthony they lost to Duke in the semi-finals Okay Well they went undefeating in the regular season though

Yes Correct yeah Yes So I mean And St. Joe's went undefeated In the regular season lost in the A-10 tournament that was with Delante West and Jemir Nelson and those guys. Yeah, so you guys, you're able to be, you know, every time you hit 27 and no,

like, you know, having a theme for this one and then 28 and no and then getting compared to St. Joe's, getting compared to UNLV, like that's, that's pretty cool, man. Like those are, you know, historic seasons by some great players and teams. So you lose, okay, but you've been to a final four. you've had an undefeated regular and conference tournament season. And then you're like, I go pro. What was the decision? I didn't put a whole lot of decision into it.

I probably should have maybe put a little more decision into it of my sophomore year. Because statistically wise, I think my sophomore and junior year were two of my better years. We did the whole NBA eval situation. They didn't have the thing where you could, you know, test. whatever, test the waters, so to say, until my, I don't even think they had that my junior season. So I really didn't put a whole lot of thought into it. You know, when you Klee was, you know, probably going to get drafted. I didn't really know how the agent situation was.

Like, I didn't even know how that process even became probable. Like, I didn't even know what the steps were to, you know, hiring an agent. So I was pretty raw on that in that aspect. but maybe should have done a little more homework prior. But a kid coming from Scott City, I don't really have plans to be an NBA player once I got to Wichita. So it wasn't too studied up on the situation.

So what was Marshall really like? Your experience? My experience just, obviously you've been through it. And this is why I wanted to get on this, you know, platform with you and talk about this because you've obviously played college sports. basketball, like just super intense, right? Like has his ways of coaching basketball and he has his system in play.

He wants you to buy in to his system, keep the game since, you know, simple, play defense rebound. Like he's pretty simple concepts. Obviously, we can get into the whole, you know, situation that happened, like, the big thing right now is like we're the snowflake era like we can't handle you know being yelled hard coaching well yeah we can't handle hard coaching which i mean everyone's different Doug right like you know fred me plea others can handle it you know some players can't simple as that he if you can't if you can't buy into what he wants you to do like he's going to hang a cloud over you each day

and tell you, like he's trying to hammer this into you. So like, players are going to struggle, right? They're going to transfer. Well, last year, just so happens. Not eight, nine guys leave. You know, now it's a snowball going down to hill, right? You've seen Jeff Goodman's stories, you know, telling, you know, he's diving into everyone.

Like, he told me, I talked to him a couple weeks ago. He's like, all I did was call one guy from a transatlantic. right and he leads me to another guy now it's just like a snowball effect well you know coach you know he is a hard coach and you know do I respect him absolutely he's been great to me and my family that's from my you know my opinion these other players are coming out I respect them for telling their stories were there days where I thought coach like cross the line for sure like that that happens and what they did here with like the committee stuff. And this is the first time I've been coming out public, by the way, about the situation.

He, uh, he had obviously made a statement. I think his first statement was like kind of like the political correct statement. Obviously him and his people in his circle like wrote it out. And like he didn't really touch based on like the Shack Morris altercation and some of the other things obviously were top of the headline. And I was like, okay, cool. Like maybe, you know, maybe he's just going to like come forward and be like, you know, I did these things. I apologize.

Like, you know, Wichita loves this man. Like, loves him. So, like, I'm thinking like, okay, maybe he's going to understand like, okay, man, you know, it's a different era of kids. Like, I cross the line on a couple things. I apologize. And, you know, I'll do whatever I got to do to. you know, stay with my team because in reality, the priority is not to worry about, you know, things.

The last thing he as a coach wants to do is worry about things he might have messed up on the past. Priority is the kids that are on campus right now trying to prepare for this, you know, this season, because the season was supposed to start tomorrow. And, you know, I'm waiting. I'm like, all right, he's going to, you know, make a statement, make a statement, nothing. and then, you know, the Shaq Morris story, you know, makes headlines and, you know, I was there when all this was going on. Like I'd seen them, you know, kind of do some things here and there, but the Shaq altercation, you know, it's just sad and fortunate, obviously. You know, I was, I was in that practice.

There was a bang, bang play at the rim. You know, Shaq, one of our three men was starting at the time, Zach Brown. bang, bang play. Shack was, you know, late to it, like a help side action, went up to the rim. Zach Brown falls down. You know, Marshall just like flips a switch, man. Like, obviously really upset.

Like, you know, this is a starter. Kind of just goes in on Shaq. And I'm just sitting there like, God, man, like, just super uncomfortable. And you could hear like a needle drop in the gym. Like, just you've been in those practices, like super uncomfortable. Like you don't even feel like playing basketball.

the rest of the day. Marshall kicks him out of practice and like follows them out into the concourse. So we're all like, man, just like at, you know, just shook. What the hell is going on? So late, you know, practice things. We go down in the locker room and come to find out, Shaq tells us, you know, you know, he got hit. And we're like, man, like Shaq and Marshall's relationship was never like really, you know, tighten it. And they had some tension. And as you know, tension, you know, continues to grow, grow, grow, grow, grow. Well, you know, just so happened to be that day where, you know, it got to a point where it was just, you know, bad. And a couple other players in my locker room said they've seen it and were like, hey, like, just felt like just wrong.

I felt like kind of, damn, shaky. I just didn't really know as a 21-year-old how to handle this situation. we're a good basketball team we don't we don't want the spotlight of you know the prestigious wichita state final four undefeated sweet you know sweet 16 resume to turn into damn coach marshall you know hit a player like that's why shack i think waited all these years to now circle back on the situation because like i said they're you know their relationship was never tight-knit. So for me, kind of being back in Wichita, after I got back from Russia,

it was just like one of those situations, like talking to my parents. I'm like, you know, these things, some of these things in the first report, I'm like, man, some of these things like happened. He's like, well, but you are not Ron Baker as a pro without, you know, Greg Marshall and his staff. So it puts me in a situation like, wow. How do I, how do I handle this? Like I don't want to go public because I don't really feel like if I went public whenever it came to light, let's say a month ago, like, what's it going to do?

Like I say, you know, some of these things happened. Okay, now it looks like, man, Ron Baker's not loyal to his coach, you know, like the guy that, you know, made him out to what he is. but the same time as you know a teammate's a teammate man like I personally don't think Shaq would make this you know stuff up that day in the locker room like why what's I mean what's it in it for him like he's not going to make up something like that at least in my eyes and like I said a couple other guys seen it happen excuse me seen it happen so

just a weird situation man it's sad disappointing I know coach Marshall is probably going to watch this And like he has so much love in this city. Like for me, I think to make things right, I think he should have just, you know, bit in the bullet and said, man, you know, I really messed up.

I let whatever it is get to him. Like I love winning so much. Like just do the right thing if that makes sense. Yeah. And just it would have cleared the smog around this town like this. And regardless of the committee made the decision to let him go, least the tension between, oh, these are, you know, Snowflake era kids, like they can't handle it. I mean, all that goes away.

Or, you know, I mean, it's obvious why none of us players in that gym that day, like, went public. Because we don't want, we don't want that feeling of, man, like, those guys are just not loyal enough to their coach type of. So really, I'll give you a personal, it's not exactly the same, but there's some similarities there. So I'm at ESPN and coach satin has a car crash. Now it's on a Friday night. And they're supposed to play the next day at Texas A&M. And I have a former teammate named Alex Weber, his wife Denise, who was one of our athletic trainers. She was like a student trainer

when they first met, whatever. So I mean like we it's one thing to have just like a wife you met like, but she was there when we were there. Right. So, uh, coach gets in the car. crash and I'm doing we had like Friday night games random Friday night game and um we we do a break into the game and so I call I Alex calls me and he's like this is bad he's like you should call Denise I was like is he going to die she's like just called Denise so I called Denise and she's the vice at the time vice president of the hospital and I go how is he she's like he's going to be okay I was like, well, Alex said it was bad. She's like, it's terrible.

I go, well, you just said he was going to be okay. Like, no, no, it's terrible. I was like, oh, was he drinking? She's like, it's really, really bad. That's all I can say. So then I call a friend of mine who, my old neighbor that when I was, we had like a house, we called the palace. It was like three, four bedrooms, like one bath.

We all lived together. Alex was my roommate. Our neighbor was a cop. I called a cop. And I was like, hey, man, what happened with Coach Sutton? He's like, it's again, it was like, it was like they all got like something to read. He's like, man, it's really bad.

Yeah. He's like, I go, was he drunk? He's like, he's like, I can't say what happened. He's like, I don't know. You know, like he hasn't been charged, whatever, but you should get the police report. So, you know, like, anyway, it wasn't until that Wednesday that they had a press conference. they announced that he was drunk and he took immediately from the program. On that Wednesday, now I had been talking to them the whole time.

And on that Wednesday, I was actually in Vegas. My wife was pregnant. My brother's wife was pregnant, a sister-in-law, and I was calling the game like the next day, San Diego State UNLV, and it was his game. He was an assistant coach. So we planned this trip, like we're going to get together. We're going to get a bunch of food and try and decide the names of our kids. and I got to go do Sports Center because my coach had a DUI.

And, you know, I'm forced to comment on it. Six months prior to that, Bob Huggins had had a DUI. And I was like, man, you can't be a coach and have a DUI, right? Like when you represent the school. So now I'm in this, okay, am I disloyal if I say, hey, I don't, I love Coach Sutton. I love that man. He's done amazing things for me. He's even after this, he was a remarkable mentor towards me.

things he taught me and the bond we have as players. And you know how, and I'm sure there's some of this too. But part of their psychology is they make it you against them, players against coaches. It's almost like a motivation. Yes. Yes.

They're like, why are these guys such assholes? We hate them. But there's some kind of fucked up psychological thing where they like make you and it's us against them. And it makes it so that you're much closer. Right. So there are days when it's like,

I hate that guy. I hate that. You hate all those coaches. And then the end of the day, you're like, okay, I kind of got it. You know, I kind of get it. For the next year, I was like persona non grata in Stillwater. Because I was disloyal. And I was like, the ultimate act of loyalty to me is saying, hey, coach is wrong.

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Open your free I Heart Radio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. Like, this is wrong. I love you. you're wrong. You can't do that. You can't be the highest paid member of a faculty and be on your way to meet the team plane and be drunk. And he's a he's a recovering alcoholic. Like I'm, I understand. I want him to get healthy, but you can't be the head coach and do those things. Yeah. But you're, loyal and truthful. Yes. Yeah. Yes. And you can still like, I would, I would, I would, I would,

I would guess like, you still care for Greg Marshall. You love the man, right? Right. But he was wrong. and and and and also wrong to put you in a position where you had to not say anything at the time or even now like it's a really hard thing because he hasn't come out and go like hey you know what i did some things because i even take i think the part you can never put your hands on a kid that's that that's that's that's that's that's that's a been a rule obviously that's what costs bob night his job in indiana yeah but the the language stuff you know i i know that it reads as remarkably insensitive yeah but it's a basketball team and shit is the rules are different right right so i don't that stuff doesn't bother me that i'm you know and you can and i think you can walk it might not bother me and you but my point is it might bother someone else because we i mean we're not in their head right right like we're talking you know psychiatric stuff but it's a thing man yes yeah i mean like about getting on your horse or whatever but there there's and and something like you but you can cross the line and then dial it back, be like, oh, I call a kid in. I was out of line. I apologize.

I was sarcastic. You know, because we're all kind of sarcastic. A lot of us are sarcastic assholes. My thing with Greg was this. I never saw the level of abuse or ever putting hands on a kid. But at that St. Louis game, this is God's honest truth. Who is the athletic director at the time? The same athletic director? Oh, the St. Louis game would have been Sexton. Sexton or Boatwright? We're both A.D. and then Assistant AD at the time. I think B'L. Right. The assistant?

Yeah. Yeah. So he was there. We're walking in the hall and he introduced himself. And I was like, oh, good to meet Greg's boss. He's like, we all work for that. Right. And there's just a way, like, look, Greg Marshall, when he was at Winthrop, I covered their games and he went to seven NCAA tournaments, right? Right. Him and his wife were lovely,

and they used to hang out with me at Final Fours and, like, basically he couldn't get a job because he took the college of Charleston jobs and changed his mind. He just couldn't get the bigger job. And he did have some bad parts of his reputation, whatever. And so I had a long relationship with them, but you could see some of the,

some of it brewing in that he just, you feed a guy's ego enough and you feed a guy and a guy like I I would guess to this moment he doesn't think he did anything wrong. That's why you didn't see an apology. And that's just the part that you can you can walk back and you can have a legit, hey man, I was wrong. I got I was, I was feeling myself some. And I think that would, it just sucks because I don't think it does. But to some it may put a bit of a cloud over what was an amazing. five or six years of basketball from one program, and he was very much responsible because he is a marvelous.

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But do you feel where I'm coming from if you were just owned up? To not sustain at all, but for sure the Shack situation, because that's what, I mean, let's, you know, call a spade of spade, that's why he's not here.

Like if that story is not in the first article, right. I mean, everyone would just kind of put it the, you know, it gets swept on the rug kind of deal. Like, he would have put out a first statement and then... Can't put your hands on a kid. No. No place for it.

Simple as that. And the, and, you know, Shaq obviously left. What, what do other teenagers... Jack, no, Shaq finished his four years at which suck. See, but now it's like... So, yeah. Can't come back, right? He lives here.

He does? And like, I'm trying to get it to where, like, that's not an issue. Like, we shouldn't have to worry about, Shaq should not have to worry about going out in public. And people looking at him, man, that's that guy that called Jeff Goodman. Like, he shouldn't have to worry about that, right? No. That's terrible. No.

That's like a societal issue, right? Like, we use these terms. If you're the person who saw something or something was done, we call you a rat thing. a snitch, right? Like, hey, I wasn't the one who did the thing that was wrong. I was the one who did the thing wrong too. And I actually didn't say anything for years so that my team could live out, you know, their dreams and their fault. Their team was arguably just as good, if not better the next two years they were there. You don't want to come forward then and ruin the vibe or the morale of what you got going. Does that make sense, right? Yes. Yes, I totally

understand. There's a guilt to it. Right? Because because you do, I think they think, I don't know what people think of college kids, you know, where they don't have the where the where they don't have the where it's most the guys that I played are pretty smart, pretty understanding. They know, hey, let me just get through this and, and, and, and use it to benefit me post career. Right. I do think like there is plenty of time for things that like, make men's because like this they're like we already seen like wichita community already come to like a pact let's say and you know support coach like you know he's done successful things i spoke with ton devlin i spoke with jeff johnson out at flint hills here in town big

you know big supporters of you know wichita state and coach and they're like man ron we we really support this man like think of what he's done these past 14 years it's remarkable i'm like you know, I totally, I totally agree with you. I'm in agreement. I'm in agreeance with you. But guys, like, what he did that day, like, I mean, it's not right, you know? Right. And it makes it more not right to not offer any sort of apology or olive branch or ability to discuss.

I mean, honestly, I kind of feel like you and Fred are the only guys that can, right and that's why we're i mean this is why we're doing this right now i mean i hope it gives some clarity you know to the city those people that are supporting marshal they have every right to and i i totally get where they're coming from but i want those supporters to come together and understand why shack did what he did and now we can you know turn the page the committee made their decision coach resigned he did his thing i really think him coming forward would bring all this tight knit

or like it used to be around these parts. And we would just, you know, move on. Together, move on together. Yeah. Instead of kind of being this thing where, you know, I said,

I will tell you that now here's the hard part. So I have a really good relationship with Mike Boynton. I think he's a very good man. And Scott Sutton's on the staff. And there's a lot of orange on that staff. but when your coach leaves and a new regime takes over, it's never the same to go back. It just isn't because.

As far as going. When you have kids and you come back and it's Ron Baker Day and they put your number up there in the rafters or whatever, like it just, it sucks because like I'm forever envious of the Michigan State guys, the Duke guys, the Kansas guys, the Kansas guys, because Bill's been there long enough now, but I think, and Bill did a great job because he's a, he actually hired Barry Hinson to kind of help with it.

But when the, I think the best part of the whole thing is when you go back and people, not just remember, but the coach calls you in front of the team like, hey, man, this guy was a hell of a player. Let me tell you, I recruited him. He did this. He did this. He did this. He won this game for us.

Like, it's like, that's, that's all you really require when you're a player is just like, hey, man, just remember some of the shit I did. how hard I worked and how much I bought into the program. And that's a really hard one when your coach is gone and when they clean the regime out, you know, which inevitably to this point hasn't happened. But at some point it bothered will. It's interesting because Jans, who I like,

and I know he recruit you, like you, he had his deal at Bowling Green. And after you guys beat Glensaga, you know, he had his spit cup and he was gone, right? Just, we were all just gone. Like it was,

And I was, I was like, man, that guy, that drink went down a little too quick. Right. But he's a, he's a, he's a hell of a dude and a, right, and a really good coach. Right. And that, and obviously he's bounced back with the New Mexico state deal, which is great. But it's, it's fascinating to me because, like, I think sometimes we get caught up in a, look, I did stupid shit at Notre Dame. Right.

Like, that's a, we have bad moments. We do bad things. But it's the golf analogy. It's still under par for my life, right? And I think Greg Marshall could still be very much under par, like really, really under par. If you would just come out and go like, hey, man, that was a triple bogey. That was, I'm embarrassed by it.

I shouldn't have done it. I feel really bad. And, you know. One of the, so they were doing their investigation right on campus. And I wasn't even going to get involved. I was walking the fence line, trying to be supportive. and then coach comes out with a second statement saying, I've never struck a player and put hands on a coach.

Like word for word. I'm just like, what is going on right now? Like this isn't even making sense. Doug, I'm telling you, we had two rules when we were here. We had no curfews. We had nothing. Like, we had two rules. The first day you walk on campus, you get a sheet,

and the two words on there is, or not two words, but the words on there say, don't lie to me and don't steal for me. That was it. So I'm thinking like, man, my freshman year that he said those things and now he's coming out with this. Like it just, it was bad. It was like disappointing and just like it just rubbed me the wrong way. And then that's when I got involved on like I never went public, never said anything. I talked to one of the lawyers that was doing investigation and I was truthful and I told my story of that day.

And that's how I went about it. I didn't feel like it was right for him to try and turn the narrative on my teammate. Like that really, really hurt me. That was tough. Is there any chance that Shaq isn't telling the truth? There was other guys in the gym that day that seemed it. It's a bad. It's a bad deal.

Have you talked to him? Have you talked to Greg? No. I think the last time I talked to him was, man, it was during the story. summer probably July or August and I think once this investigation started he wasn't legally allowed to reach out to anybody that was involved or potentially going to get a question of investigation. All right I want to I do I do I want to get to a couple things here real quick. All right. Let's knock them out. What was it like to play in the NBA?

Everything I ever imagined times or everything I've ever imagined and more. Like just surreal. Your first game of Madison Square Garden. Do you remember who was against? It was either it was, I want to say Boston maybe, Boston or D.C. Because it was, you know, you play those Northeast teams in exhibition. I actually started the second half. I had a pretty good preseason. I think that's kind of why I made the team. But yeah, just surreal. And not to mention, man, think of my teammates, joking, no, all NBA player, Derek Rose, youngest MVP, Brandon Jennings, 54-point performance in Milwaukee,

Carmel Anthony, Hall of Famer. Like, the list goes on. Like, just surreal. Like, looking around like, holy crap. The only rookie that year that might have had a better situation was Kay Felder at Cleveland. Other than that, like, that's like a dream lineup for a rookie. Like, unheard of. It was remarkable.

When you made the team. Who told you you made the team? Phil called me, or Jamie Matthews, actually, one of our player personnel. He called me into Phil's office. And Phil goes, we're moving you from B team to A team, Ron. He made the team. You know, his Zen voice. Oh, it was great. I played with the Lakers for a summer league one year. And then, like, I was in there, a couple of their different camps or vet camps. that free agent camps and he would always call me Godfrey Gilbert Godfrey Godfrey

Godfrey get in there God Godfrey he knows what we're doing you know what was Melo like he was cool man he takes a lot of heat because he's just

you know an easy target for the media when you're the best player on the Knicks like obviously the media is going to grab at you but he did the little things for me as a vet took me out on my birthday in Miami like things of that sort wasn't hard on me as a rook I didn't have to do all the crazy things you know guys probably had to do when you were a rookie but he was cool de rose was probably one of the most you know influential guys for me because he was

he was a guy that I could relate to because you know he's not real vocal he's more of the guy that you know leads by example and you know lead lives by his morals. Like, I really, really enjoyed being in the same locker room as him. Crazy shit you saw. Let's do it on the basketball floor in the NBA. Like, this is such a different level than anything I've ever seen. My second, second season, we're past, getting closer, past All-Star break, and Milwaukee comes to town. And I'd never played against Janus before. Like, knew what he's about. my rookie year we played at their place but i just played the fourth quarter didn't really

have a ton of minutes against him but uh him and chris milton get a two-on-one fast break this probably it's definitely third quarter and i mean i know the al-oops coming right like i'm sitting on the bench i know the al-yubes coming it's two-on-one and tim hardaway is the last guy back and i kid you not like he knows that you know that he knows that you're coming right he knows the alludes coming too he kind of slides the left and shades yonis milton's coming milton throws it i'm like what the hell's he thinking like he had a layup yonis jumps over over like i'm talking not like between the legs like literally over tim hardway and dunks it and i just i just sit there and i'm like this is like something you've seen him like a movie like this can't be like fake it was severely fake

Same game, posts up in the midpost, and I think you tweeted at me. He posted up in the mid post and caught the ball and was just like, taking his time, taking his time, and then hit a step back on Lance Thomas to end the game. I'm like, oh, my God. Like, this guy was different. And like, we never, we would play like LeBron and those guys in a regular season. And like they would. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged.

It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show.

This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment. And the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where

you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim?

Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because,

of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you finishing that sentence. Yes. I don't think there's a more important year for black people.

Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of Mental Health Awareness Month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests.

I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross,

because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth? Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, as we have real conversations about healing,

growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, learn the hard way. Open your free, our heart radio app, Search learn the hard way and listen now. Never give us our best. And we never made it to playoffs. So we didn't really know that type of caliber of competitiveness. My last story that when I knew I was in the NBA was my second year opening game.

We're playing at Cleveland. They just dropped the banner. Michael Beasley and I are sitting on the bench and he has a relationship with Braun from Miami. Well, we're up like 20, 20, 25. in the third corner and Beasley is standing up on the court just letting Braun happen just letting them happen. They shoot the first, we shoot the first free throw. LeBron grabs the ball, gives it to the ref and he starts walking towards our bench.

He goes, Bees, shut the F up. You know we're just scrimmaging for June? And then turns around and walks back. I was like, oh, man, I made it. This is real. Okay, so you played with Percasca. I played in Russia too. So that it's a, I'm intrigued by a couple of Russia.

When you landed. Yeah. What do you remember? Just kind of dark, cloudy, muggy. And obviously the airport's not in the best part of town. And it was like an hour to get to the city. Like it's just a cultural difference. Like their vehicles are different.

Yeah. You know, the highways are different. Huichichai? Like they ever, they want you. Wichichai? I don't, I don't want, I don't want tea. I just. Yeah, just ice water, bottled water.

Yeah, just different. My first game we played, I played, we actually won the league when I was there. And I played for a team. It's now, I think, second division, you're all great. We play on the road in St. Petersburg. And my two most vivid memories, actually three. One, we went out to eat. And I didn't know there was no Americans, other Americans on the team at the time.

And I was just following these guys around and they ordered food for me. And it was gross. And I was just, and like to have all this whole world going on and you not know anything that's going on, what they're saying is a really weird experience. That was the biggest thing was a language barrier. 100%. And then at night, so then we're playing. And it was like the first game. And I'd only patch for like a week, a week and a half.

And the coach, Sergey Belloff, who played in the 72 team. He turns to go, doc. And I was like, I thought that was me. I hopped up to, like, go on the game or whatever. They're like, scoring table. And some guy, like, grabs me, like horse collar tackles me. He's like, that's not, no, no. You know, it's like, it wasn't me.

And then after the game, that's probably not playing. I play pretty good. After the game, some dude comes in. he's like smoking a cigarette. He goes, sneak. Sneak. I was like, um, ice.

I need ice. My knees. I need ice. Big. Ice. Ice. They went outside. And again,

remember this is 2001. Okay. This is so I'm sure now they have perfect ice machines and whatever and STEM and all that other shit. But they went outside. They actually scooped up snow, put it in a plastic bag or put it in like a bag, like a trash bag. And then you had like two trash bags of just real snow.

And that was your ice. Oh, yeah. I was like, I also remember I landed in Moscow at the big airport. I think Shermetta was the name. Yeah. And there's before cell phones or there were cell phones, but I didn't have one or it didn't work or something. And I had to transfer to another airport. And I'm like, how am I going to find this guy?

And there was like Russian writing and a basketball. And I was like, that's me. That was it. And I got in a car and I just remember being in this car driving through Red Cross. square thinking to myself, if he kills me and pushes me out the side, who's going to know? Is it? This is it? See, I was with chess case. So we were taking care of pretty, pretty good as far as like pro player should be treated. The cultural difference mainly for me was just the language. Like, I couldn't go anywhere and like be myself. Couldn't show emotion. You couldn't

relate to anybody. Like, that was tough for me. And because basketball lasts, what, three hours a day? Yeah. From 8 to 11. And then what? You know, you're hopping with your driver who is somewhat bilingual, really nice guy. But I mean, is your best friend going to be your driver? Like when you leave the...

That's what mine was. We actually got a Russian tutor, so I can speak a little Russian. Okay. And then, yeah, then he was your driver. And I would hang out with Alec was my driver. My driver took me to the mall. We got bedding. We did all that stuff together because, you know, no one else spoke English or spoke Russian in my situation.

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Brought to you by the United States Forest Service and the Ad Council. So what now? I had hip surgery 10 weeks ago. Just from wearing tear or from playing high school football, whatever the cause may be. Deciding like it's time to probably hang them up. Started networking here in Wichita, getting my name out there, got a couple things that I'm interested in. would love to, you know, just to keep all doors open and kind of see where the wind blows me. I'd love to keep, you know, relevance in, you know, college or NBA sports, whatever that,

NBA basketball, whatever that job line could be down the road. We'll just have to see. Ever thought about baseball? Baseball, calling, calling some games with old Joe Buck. No, playing. Playing baseball? Yeah. They cut like 3,000 players.

There's no minor leagues. There's no minor leagues. And then now all the European teams, basketball teams, already have a season. And these dudes are waiting around for the draft. It is all screwed up. It is nuts. Just the timetable sports right now is bizarre. But, you know, everyone's getting affected.

So I can't complain personally. If you never play another basketball game, will that be okay with you? Yeah. I'm happy. Three surgeries, man, in four years as a pro. Like, that's tough. That's tough on the body. I don't want to be your age and having to gimp around and not be able to.

You want to look as good as me. That's really what you want. There's better hair. That's what you want. Look as good as me. I mean, you have incredible hair. But now you've cut your hair, right? That was like your signature.

You used to do that terrible clat look. Then you did the fro. And now, you know, now you're kind of, you got a little just. Justin Bieber. Yeah. Very tight. Was that like a one on the side? I'm going for the David Beckham now.

David Beckham. Yeah, yeah. Just not as good as him at his sport as I was in my sport. If 20 years from now, you got a, you got family, you got kids. What do you want? What's the moment? What's the moment of Ron Baker's career that you're most proud of? Probably just realizing where I,

came from where I grew up and I really think seeing my jersey come down in the rafters will probably be one of the most like surreal moments. It goes up in the rafters, by the way. It doesn't come down. What's that? It goes up in the rafters. You don't bring it down to the rafters. You go up.

Oh, okay. Yeah. Unfurl? Yes. I like that. That's a good point. Better point. We'll meet in the middle there.

I get it. But yeah, just because, you know, you can put your hold. the college career into one and it'll be up in that, you know, the Raptors. That's probably going to be the defining moment that I look back on the most. Not the, I didn't take a three in the final four, open the top of the key instead. I was unselfish. I threw the ball inside and we got into foul trouble. We got the foul trouble.

Hi-low, coach. That one, yeah, that one's, I already deleted that one from the memory bank. Sorry, I brought it out of the trash. You hadn't emptied the trash. I brought it out. All right. Last thing. If somebody's in a small town, right?

Like if somebody's in a small town and they have these dreams and aspirations. Now, look, none of them have you come from a really athletic family. None of them have your athletic build. But what do you say to the kid who is in small town USA that feels, hey, I'm not on the AAU circuit. I'm not playing with the big enough teams. How would you go about making? What's the secret to making it? My personal experience, my biggest thing was picking role models for me was my

dad was a high school basketball coach and we had a good player that I looked up to. Clint Johnson was his name. Like I always wanted to be like Clint growing up, wanted to play basketball, be like Clint. And I got a little older like close to middle, and I started watching Kirk Heinrich. It's like you see role models, you want to idolize them, and then you start, you know, working,

trying to be like to imitate them, study them. Like that was the biggest thing for me growing up. Because like, obviously you said you gain the competitiveness maybe from your dad or you gain the skills from your mom. But like once you look up to someone, I think that's where you can start really, you know, idolizing, they say, your game after somebody. And when you start tasting success and seeing it,

seeing yourself do it, then that's when I really took off, I think. So like study role models, obviously do the easy, like the easy things, attitude effort. Like you can control those things. Use those daily. Just work hard, man. Like you can't control maybe.

How do you not lose your confidence? I mean, that's that's here, right? Like, how do you not? Like, if you're from a small town, like, you don't got anything to lose, right? I mean, you got to use, you know, your upbringing and the little things you learn, you know, from your peers. And I'm serious about that role model thing. And that was so huge for me because we had like four kids in my first grade class growing up. Like, I didn't, you know, have, you know, a friend to go play one of

on one with. I didn't have, you know, guys didn't, you know, make it even a five on, like five players to go travel, right? That role model thing was huge for me. Just picking a guy out, wanting to be like them, pursuing it, just keep going. That's, that's the advice I can say that really, really propelled me to get where I was. When you see the money that Fred signed for, what do you think. Ooh, man, that's a lot of zeros. But as you know, if you got to be happy for stories like that, man. Because, you know, Rockford, Illinois to Wichita, then to Toronto and, you know, being

a face of, you know, you're about to be the face of a franchise. Like, that's a, that's a real story. And he gives a platform to, you know, young kids to idolize. It's like the perfect, the perfect dream story. Has he changed it all since when you first met him? No, he wouldn't. Like when you text him, he didn't go, who dis? Who this?

Sorry, I got a new phone. Your phone. No, Fred's always going to be Fred, man. Humble, hungry. He don't even care about them, 85 mil. He wants to win and he'll be, he'll be working for that next deal in five years. I guarantee it. Well, look, I can't tell you how I appreciate your time, but more than anything, your honesty,

especially considering everything that's going on where you are right now. And I mean this, one of my things is we're friends, we're friends. So when I can help you, obviously you got a good feel for what you want to do. But let's stay in touch and we'll, you know, next chapter. We'll do another one in the next chapter. Love it. All right, brother. Have a good day.

Appreciate it, man. See you guys. See you. Okay. didn't know that's where he was going to go. And it's one of these things where you can be reasonable about your coach and respect what he's done for you and know he's made mistakes and just hope that wish that he would admit to said mistakes. He hasn't and it clearly really bothers Ron Baker. Anyway, I cannot speak highly enough for Ron Baker, the human being, the leader of a program that he no longer plays for.

but he definitely represents and represents it quite well. By the way, if you love interviews like this, my show's a little different on radio. It's 3 to 6 Eastern, 123 Pacific, Fox Sports Radio, Fox Sports Radio.com, the IHeartRadio app. It's called the Doug Gottlieb show. In the meantime, send me your thoughts, tweet this out, send it to a friend.

This is what really happened at Wichita State. That is what really happened with Ron Baker, how he came to be an NBA player and what it was really like for him to play there. I hope you enjoyed it. I sure did. I'm Doug Gottlieb, and this is Albaugh. If you love to be remembered as the person who gives the best birthday gifts, I'm here to tell you that 1-800flowers.com is your ultimate birthday gifting destination. 1-800 Flowers has thoughtful and artfully created options that are guaranteed to deliver the best birthday surprise. Shop thousands of unique gifts at 1-800flowers.com for exclusive offers and great.

values. To order today, visit 1,800flowers.com slash tune in. That's 1,800flowers.com slash tune in. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter.

Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth.

Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media.

Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifers Show. This is a place for raw, unfilled conversations with athletes, creators and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok podcast network on TikTok. On the Look Back at it podcast.

From 1979, that was a big moment for me. 84's big to me. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. With our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite office. Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s. 84 was a wild year.

I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.