The Herd with Colin Cowherd - All Ball - G-League Post-Pandemic Viability; Hoops Writer Andy Glockner's In-Depth Look At The NBA Analytics Era, Finishing NBA Season

Episode Date: April 17, 2020

In this episode, Doug discusses the post-pandemic viability of the G-League, and why he thinks it's so uncertain. His guest this week is basketball writer Andy Glockner discusses his book Chasing Perfection, which looks behind the scenes at how NBA franchises are building teams in the analytics era, the debate about finishing the season, and the massive irreversible destruction that the COVID-19 quarantine will have on college athletics. Make sure you download, rate and subscribe here to get the latest All Ball Podcasts! Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Hey, what up? Welcome in, Doug Gottlieb. This is All Ball, your All Basketball podcast. Well, we'll record another one here upcoming in regards to Jalen Green and the idea of a G-League team that is simply made up at least partially of guys that would be a freshman in college. I'll just say this. We're a really interesting time in business.

And as if you're listening to this podcast, you probably love hoop, college hoop, pro hoop, just hoop in general. And I'm fascinated by how this plays out. Like we're all focused on like lamello ball. It did it help. It looked like it helped him to go to Australia. I'd say this about lamella ball.

I think getting him away from his dad. dad coaching him was a big thing, was important. Not because his dad's this bad guy, but he really wasn't, not a well-rounded coach. And I think playing, you know, in a professional league against men is going to make you better. And as much as there's some infatuation with lamello ball being a number one overall pick, we do realize he shot like 27% from three and 35% from the field. He still doesn't guard anybody. Now, he's a 6'6, 6'5 point guard who can really pass.

and I think eventually will be, you know, a good shooter. And you look at how his brother's athleticism came in a couple years in the league. One could reason that if Lamello becomes the athlete that his brother is, the question is, will he be as tough as his brother is? Lonzo's a tough-ass dude. A great defender, a rebounder. And if you watch Lamello play, he stays away from contact, wants no part of defense, wants no part of rebounding.

Just likes to play with the ball offensively. make the home run pass and make the home run shot. But I'm, no one talked about R.J. Hampton this year. And I've been told that it wasn't like things were left on good terms in Australia. I don't, I think they're, like any overseas team, you played overseas. You're listening to this. You're nod in your head. You're like, yeah, that didn't really work out.

Well, I didn't get what I thought I was going to get. Once I get you on the plane, it's over. Don't get on the plane until you get what you want. You know what I mean? But like Lamello talking about. buying his team, that to me signifies, Lamello, he doesn't have any money to buy a team. They probably owe him some money

and giving him some equity in the team feels like a payback for that. So this is the next step, is the G League trying to pay guys. And it's a hybrid deal with endorsements and with NBA money. I'm not sure if people are paying attention. I know NBA people are,

but I'm not sure people are paying attention to minor league baseball. But a good portion of the teams in minor league baseball are losing their affiliation and are going to go away. Like 40 teams are going to go away. Now, that's not a huge number, but it's not expanding. And then we're going to come out of a year where there may be no minor league system, be no minor league teams.

We don't like know what any of this looks like. And what's going to happen is we're going to shed the dead weight. And when financial time is being really, really hard, is the NBA going to overfund the G league and lose money? when all of a sudden everybody's budget gets tight. Like that's a legit story. What happens to the G League? What happens to the WNBA?

Like, look, if the NBA season is played in front of nobody just for TV cameras in the summer, the WNBA doesn't have a season. And you're like, well, the WNBA plays in front of nobody. But the WNBA actually needs people in attendance in order to make money. There's just no TV revenue. And as low as the TV numbers are, it's going to be even worse if there's the NBA on TV. And if the big three doesn't make it and the WNBA doesn't make it, what happens to the NBA?

What happens to the G League? Do they fund this team? So it feels like a big story, and it is. But if I'm college basketball, I'm not sure I overreact. You know, Jalen Green wants to play 12 games and didn't want to play college basketball. That's fine. You can do that. Guys have been able to go to the G league forever.

The only difference is now the G league is going to be funded to the point where at least a couple of guys will make six figures. That's kind of the sunny Vicaro idea from a long time ago, which is only take the very top guys. Everybody else, feel free to go to college. So I think the G League elite program is going to be interesting. Let's see how it plays out before we freak out and say it's the end of college basketball as we know it. Let me get to my conversation. with Andy Glockner. Andy Glockner, of course,

the author of Chasing Perfection. Be sure to catch the live edition of the Doug Gottlieb show weekdays at 3 p.m. Eastern, noon Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and the IHeart Radio app. The book is called Chasing Perfection. Behind the scenes look at the high stakes game

of creating an NBA champion. Andy Glockner, the author, joins us. He's joined us before. And Andy, Ethan Strauss has a book out now about the Warriors, the beginning and the end of that version of the dynasty. I don't know.

We'll get to what you think. the next step for the Warriors is. But let's start with this. Do you think, like, I'm just wondering if we close the book on that chapter of it, did the league catch up to them, right? Because when they started their style, they were ahead of everybody else. They were playing differently than everybody else. And it's not just the use of analytics, but also having Draymond Green as their small

ball center in their, quote, death lineup. now everyone's trying to have a small ball five. Some are doing it differently than others. In your mind, the league catch up to the Warriors. I'd say yes and no. I think the league was going to catch up to the Warriors, and then obviously they added Kevin Durant to the Corps, and that changed everything for almost three years.

So, you know, we can look at what happened last year, and obviously injuries were a very significant portion of why the Warriors run ended without a third straight title on a fourth and five years, and now the team this season obviously was not. any semblance of what we'd seen for half a decade. But, you know, even as the NBA has evolved its shot profiles, and you look year over year and you've seen more teams taking more threes,

you know, it's just not that simple. And the way that the Warriors played and the distinct skills that they had and the complementary nature of Steph and Clay in the back court when they were at their best, what Draymond could give you. And then obviously, Durant was just the, you know, the codebreaker, so to speak. I mean, nobody had an answer for him in that scene. system. There were just too many options. You couldn't, you can't double everybody, right? So I think it's probably premature to say people had figured them out. I think what happened was the age-old

story of, you know, a little bit of jealousy, a little bit of avarice, a little bit of ego, and then you throw injuries on top of it, and that unraveled what was maybe the best dynasty that we've seen in the modern NBA earth. Do you think we're fair, we being all of the media, and there's so many different forms of the media, I hate guys that are in my position that say, the media, you're like, look, dude, you do a talk show, you're in the media. You know, you have a blog, you have a book, you're in the media. Do you, but, you know, part of, part of what, what, what bothered Kevin Durant, and I, I don't know if he verbalized, you know, if he, if he verbalized it in the, in the, in the, in the smartest way or the, the best way,

was that he was super bothered by quote unquote, stuff, you know, like guys pandering to Steph, I actually, I'm not sure that's really what happened. I feel like people were honest in their depiction of his flaws. And I do think, this is my personal opinion, that it's seen as being a hater if you go like, well, hey, Steph is, they hide Steph defensively. Or, hey, Steph's not really a point guard. And he is kind of turnover prone. Like, he can be a great player and still have these flaws.

I think it really bothered Durant that his flaws and other flaws. were pointed out, and Stephs weren't because I don't know really why. In your mind, you read, watched, seen, written, you know how Steph has been covered. How fairly do you think the overall media coverage has been of Steph Curry? I would say it's fair because I think Steph Curry showed in the two seasons before Durant arrived there what kind of an apex player he is, right? I mean, it's not like he needed Durant to win a championship. It's not like he needed Durant for the Warriors to win 73 regular season games and come one finals

win away from arguably the best season in NBA history. So I think the burden in that situation goes on the guy who really, frankly, was depicted as a mercenary. I mean, you know this. You're a competitor. You played professionally. What would the take have been had you lost a crushing playoff series to an arch-rival? And they said, you know what? I'm just going to join those guys.

And then you just assume everybody's going to treat you like the star when they are. You know, when they've already had all this success, when Steph is the golden child in the Bay Area, and not only on the court, but off the court has, you know, an impeccable reputation. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending. Opinions are flying. And nobody's telling you exactly what happened.

That's where sports slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise. Breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down,

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And you come in with Kevin Durant, you know, I would say, I would imagine you'd agree. Kevin Durant, better basketball player than Steph Curry? Yes. All around? Yes. Yes. Yes. But does that matter?

Right? Does that matter to the fans? Does that matter to the perception? Kevin Durant just won two titles and what? Two finals MVP's. And everybody's just like, yeah, whatever, it doesn't really mean anything because you joined the 73 win team and they didn't need you. You know, so I think the thing from my standpoint, when I look at Kevin Durant, and this is

just as an outsider. I mean, Ethan Strallis, you mentioned his book. He's been in the locker room. I'm not going to pretend I had that kind of inside access. specifically to Kevin Durant. But, you know, to me, like, Kevin Durant has a bit of an A-Rodian quality to him. He doesn't have a home right now in the NBA.

You know, he walked out on a good situation in Oklahoma City. He went and accomplished what he wanted to from a basketball standpoint, but didn't get the love. Obviously, now he's hurt, and we don't know what he's going to look like coming back. He's now in a third team with Brooklyn and hasn't played there, and, you know, frankly, just got their coach fired before he even played a game for them. So, you know, I think the issue with Durant, as you're seeing in some of these clips that are coming out from Ethan's book, is that Durant is just a hypersensitive kind of guy.

And I think that's fed into this that there was jealousy there. But I think it's understandable jealousy because Steph had the credentials to carry that reputation, even if Durant is, by all judgment, a better basketball player than curious. Get right to the romance and find the way to wow this Valentine's with 1-800flowers.com. From classic roses and bouquets to decadent chocolate-covered berries, gourmet treats, and more. Surprise your Valentine with 1-800flowers.com. Right now, get the 18-stem enchanted rose medley for $39.99, or upgrade to 24 red roses for $10 more. Go to 1-800flowers.com slash tune-in.

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It's interesting. I don't know. I guess you credit LeBron for starting this, you know, ability to have upward, mobility or transition or, you know, I mean, like, look, what he did when he left Cleveland the first time went to Miami, what is rarely discussed, I feel like I'm the only one who says it is, one, obviously this has been discussed. he was leaving home for the first time. It was like going away to college, right?

I mean, it was really, it was a big thing. But he also, in the process, he destroyed two Eastern Conference playoff contenders. The Cavs obviously went kaput, and so too did the Raptors and then joined another championship. So the, and I don't think that was part of the primary, secondary, secondary, or even tertiary thoughts to why he did it. but one of the reasons that it worked so well for all four years was, even though I'm not sure the fit was perfect, it was pretty good, is he went to a stable organization that helped.

He had another star who had carried a team to an NBA championship that helped. He had Bosch, he was probably the best, though Bosch is a pretty sensitive guy, and I'm not sure he loved every minute of the experience being the third option there, but because he was, because of his personality and his kind of ability to swathe, follow his pride and take that role, as well as the fact that he'd been an organization, which at the time had topped out in Toronto, all of that combined with the fact that they destroyed two other playoff contenders, maybe championship contenders, it made it work in the Eastern Conference to where there was no real competition in the East.

But the part that is interesting to me is it did. Look, others have forced their way out. Kobe nearly did. Kevin Garnett did. We've seen other guys. But it started this, hey, let's just, let's determine our own destiny thing, which is what Durant tried to do. But I noticed this in college basketball.

Look, I transferred. And I still have some ties to Notre Dame. And obviously I didn't leave because I necessarily wanted to, regardless of whether or not I was considering leaving at the time. But these guys that now transfer before their senior year, they graduate early or the two-time transfers, what they end up have, what they're going to end up having in a year, in two years and five years in 20 years is what Kevin Durant has now

which is no real home. There's no like, you know, these senior nights for guys that are grad transfer. Is the joke? Is it a joke? You've been there five months or whatever. Yeah, you've been there five months. Like, let's recognize the performances.

Like, they don't know you. You didn't grow up there. And there's something very powerful to it. I can, I would tell you that it's also a little bit. There's a little bit to it even when you transfer and you're not signed out of high school or you play somewhere

you go to a school that's outside of your region where people didn't see you play in high school so they don't know how good you are and because they didn't see you grow and blossom and mature they weren't with you for the tough times they don't experience the great time there's not the same level of investment and I think that's what Kevin Durant

maybe didn't understand is that look Steph's not a perfect player He's a great person and he's never been a guy. I'm like, look, if you really think about it, like Steph Curry going out and saying, hey, dude, want to come play with me and I just won 73 games and we gagged away in NBA finals. Like that's the stuff of that I don't think I'm made of, right? Everybody thinks they can do it themselves. I don't need help from somebody else.

But he's not the perfect player. Even the Warriors didn't know what they had early on. He does need help. He does need to be hidden defensively. He does have flaws. but because the warriors went through so many tough times before him and with him and they've seen him blossom into this superstar, I think they know the flaws are there,

but they overlooked them. Whereas because Kevin Durant was in Oklahoma City, they don't know him. There's no feel for him. It's not tangible to them. And I think that this transfer of culture, that's what you get is yes, you can have the ability to go win championships.

and play with better talent. And maybe, like in the AAU culture, have better shoes and play in the bigger tournaments. In college, you can transfer. Like Nate Sistina. Nate Sistina is at Bucknell, right? And granted, he didn't get a chance to play in the NCAA tournament, but winning one game in the NCAA tournament for Bucknell,

to me, would feel like a bigger accomplishment to anything, even maybe winning an NCAA championship at Kentucky, considering he'd gone from a starter to a bench player. And it's because of the investment he had at Bucknell. now. And I think, like, the transfer culture, which had been going on for the last 15 years in AAU, finally got to the NBA with LeBron James, and now we're seeing some of the ramifications of it in college and in the pros. You know, there's a lot to chew on there, obviously.

First off, I'm glad you mentioned Bosch, because I think Bosch's role with the Heedles is historically overlooked at this point. He was the defensive anchor for that small ball approach they were playing there, too. So not only did he, you know, sub-loyal. make his own offense and take a third-tier role, which, as you suggested, he may not have been 100% happy with how everything shook down in that way. He kind of gutted it out, and he was a key, key guy for making their system work. So I don't think they win two titles and go to four finals if they don't have a guy like Bosch there. So I think that was absolutely critical. I think the thing that you brought up with Steph, and we talked about it, like you said,

he had the ankle injuries. Part of the reason why they were able to get Durant is because Curry was on, what, a four-year, $44 million extension, way under market value. you because he was injured. Then they had the cap spike that one summer. So it all fell into place where you can have this once in a lifetime opportunity to add a guy like to rant. But you know what? You know what I think about when I think about this now? You know, in my mind, a current situation that would be similar is Damien Lillard in Portland, right? I mean, the Portland fans go to the mat for Damian Lillard. I would imagine at this point of any Portland fans consider Damian Lillard to be the greatest blazer of all time. You know, the guy they identify most.

as the franchise player there. Right. Where he's not, but I agree. At least there's the best guy there. So what happens if Kevin Durant comes to Portland, right? And he comes in, and he's got kind of this moody, quirky personality, and he's a little mercurial,

and he wants all the love. Like, the Portland fans aren't going to suddenly like Durant more than Damian Lillard. Durant's a better player than Lillard, but I mean, let's be real about this, right? Like, the investment is there from a fan standpoint. And Lillard got them to the Western Conference Finals, where they played the Warriors.

So it's not like he hasn't had personal success either, and I think that's what Durant ran into here. So he's just sort of a victim of a perception, what is that phrase, you know, born on third base and think you hit a triple? And that's really what happened. I mean, Durant joined a 73-win team, and then is wondering why he's not getting all this credit for winning two MbPs and, you know, in the final and two titles. Well, I mean, they already won without you, man. Like, what did you think was going to happen? Now, I will say this. The empowerment thing goes, like, we're more than on the court, too, right?

like I've said this repeatedly online on Twitter, whatever. I have tons of respect for Kevin Durand who said, you know what, I want to go play with a really fun team, win some rings, meet some venture capitalists, and make hundreds of millions of dollars in connections. There's nothing wrong with that, that's great. Like, wouldn't you do this? Like, he's set for life now.

You know, so he's, you know, become a mega corporation on top of being one of the best basketball players in the world. But I don't think he expected this kind of pushback, and I don't think he expected the kind of lack of general embrace from Warriors Nation as they were bringing all this success to the bay. And I can understand that to a certain extent, but I think it was also naive to go in there and believe that the Warriors fans were going to embrace you like they've embraced Steph and to a certain extent, Clay. That's a great point.

Those are all really good points. There's two things came to my mind when you said that. One is, you know, we all do the pros and cons when we make a decision. And either he didn't have a cons list or it wasn't a complete list. That's really it. Yeah. that's really that that's really it because you know the upside is you win two championships and probably would have won a third and and you get two MVPs because you have the space to show

how amazing a player you are you get to go head up twice with lebron would have gone to go ahead up with with kawai you know obviously your body lets you down but it's like either ignored or didn't make an appropriate cons list the second part is and this is something also interesting because there are people that you've worked with who are like this than you are. But I also think that Kevin Durant is on his phone too much. And by on his phone, I mean, you know, on the bird, on Twitter. And his, if you read your mentions, you're not going to have a great day.

Not. No, I'm not going to have a great day. No, never read the comments under your stories and never read your Twitter mentions. Yeah. That's the best way to go about life. But, you know, the Durant thing is interesting to me in a certain sense, too, because you're mentioning like, you know, he got to go up against LeBron, right? He could have squared to go off against Kauai.

I think there's this trajectory here since sort of at 2013, was it 2013? The breakthroughs to 2012 for the funder and they made the final and lost to LeBron. I think it was 12, right? And, you know, there was this whole thing like, who's going to be the guy who replaces LeBron, right? And it for a while looked like it was Durant. It looked like Durant was the era parent, right? Like you think he was maybe the second best player in the world and starting the threat and the throne and all this kind of stuff.

And then all of a sudden, Steph Curry comes in and becomes this thing with what, back-to-back league MVP's. And the best regular season title ever. And watch TV every night. And then a guy like James Hardin, who obviously used to be in Oklahoma City, comes in as well. And suddenly it's Hardin and Curry. And suddenly it's Janice is the next guy. And I think Durant just perpetually ended up as like the second or third best guy and never really

he got a chance to take the throne. So we go back to the situation, then he's like, well, what do I got to do to ascend to become, like, real in the sense of this reputation, this legacy on leaving? And what he did was not only join the Warriors and get titles in a way that some people would define as somewhat cheap, but he destroyed an Oklahoma City team that was on the verge of its own breakthrough that had the Warriors all but beat in the 2016 playoffs until Clay went like that miraculous fourth quarter in Oklahoma City, which of you were, watch that game back, you still can't believe Golden State won that game. I know the result,

and I've watched it again, and I can't believe that Oklahoma City didn't win that game. So when you come that close and establishing yourself as the own guy, as the number one guy on a contender that took out the... Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise, Breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athletes themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear.

The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports Slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to Sports Slice on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games.

And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped. up in the chase, that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch.

Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth. Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person.

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73 win warriors. And instead you bail and join them and win a couple of times. You're not going to get the love for that. I'm sorry. Yeah, I think there's other parts to that. Duran was terrible in that game. Clay was amazing in that game. And people forget that the Ola Depot trade was made prior to Duran deciding to leave. They thought, you know, and again, we look at Ola Depot now through a different lens of.

And they may have gotten to Horkford that summer, too, had Durant State. I don't know. That was possible. I think that was being banded around. So it wasn't like that was a one-shot. you know, deal with them. Right, right. They were fine.

They did. You asked about who figured out Golden State. Well, Oklahoma City figured out if you play Abaka and Durant at the four or five, you're playing like gigantic small ball thing that was giving the Golden State everything could handle. You know, so they had the key to it. And then Durant's like, no, man, I'm good. I'm going to go to the Bay Area.

Well, I think he was, I mean, I think the problem was that that team had Stephen Adams, you know, that you can't shoot. You had Andre Robertson and can't shoot. And he, you know, like if you go back and watch the Warriors series everywhere he was, it was basically like they were guarding three guys and having two in the pan. And really, Russell Westbrook can't shoot either. There was just no room. And, you know, you're trying to create space for, for your stars. I'm sure he probably, you know, he liked playing for Scott Brooks more.

He liked playing for Billy Donovan. I would say that, you know, in one of the things that I've learned now, I wish I had done more when I played. and I did my last year plan of played in France would be like you got to have these open discussions with you got to be you know you don't want to be seen as a guy who tries to manipulate everything and make every trade but I do think that you know had Durant gone into Sam Presti and said hey look man I just I got to have more space like let's figure this thing out together you know like how does this actually work whereas when you just have the when you do the LeBron thing where people just have to read your mind and and create a team out of your what they think that you want. Cleveland's tried to do that several times over to very limited success. And I think the Lakers have had some success doing it, but he's not somebody who really gives you that much of a guidance, you know. Like I've been told,

he didn't even love, he didn't even necessarily like playing with Rondo, but they think because Rondo's hung out around him, that Rondo's his guy, so they kept Rondo, and it's like, wait, what are we doing here with,

why do we keep Rondo when he's really not good enough? Like the whole thing is fascinated with some of these guys. Now, you also don't want to go the other way. We're like, oh, he's pulling all the strings. I just think you want to generally work together. Like one of the things that Fox does on TV and on radio, especially with, I know with guys like Cowherd, is, you know, they pick his brain.

What do you think about this? Like the guys who are the most talented, they're going to find a way to integrate them into some, not all of the decision-making. And I think that's a flaw of both the teams and of some of the players. If you love to be remembered as the person who gives the best birthday gifts, I'm here to tell you that 1800flowers.com is your ultimate birthday gifting destination. 1,800 Flowers has thoughtful and artfully created options that are guaranteed to deliver the best birthday surprise.

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All right, let me, a couple more here. Go ahead. I was just going to say, that Oklahoma City team was far from perfect, as you're describing, but they were still up three-one in that series. And it'd come off like two very convincing home wins in games three and four, if I recall correctly. So it's like, again, I appeal to you as a competitor. I mean, I played Division I,

I played Division I, too, but I didn't play at Notre Dame, Oklahoma State, and the arena and that type of stuff, right? So as a competitor, the Durant thing was weird to me. That's the only way I can say. It was really, it was really weird. It was really weird. But guys, but look, we, we as, I think here's the thing, I think Durant's whole thing is he reacts way too much. He cares way too much what fans think.

And he kind of views the world through the, through the eyes of a fan. Okay. And because fans, he, I'm sure he looks and goes like, fans don't give a shit about any of the other stuff. just how many titles you have, right? How many titles do you have? And really, like, that's the whole thing. I mean, I think that's the Twitter thing. Or even, I mean, even if you watch inside the NBA, like,

Barclay's been a good sport about it, whatever, not having a title. Charles Barkley was a fucking badass. And, like, you know, he- Incredible, yeah. Incredible. But he does the self-deprecating and he lets other people, like, go, like, oh, you didn't have titles. Like, the idea that Draymond Green would ever talk shit to him.

Listen, Draymond Green's been a very important cog in the Warriors machine. There isn't a year outside of maybe the, even the Houston year where he was a shell of himself before he blew out his knee and his leg, that Draymond Green would ever command minutes over Charles Barkley. But it's because we've become this, well, how many titles did you win? And somehow that solidifies whether or not you're one of the all-time greats. And I think that's what Durant, you know, the hell with the fact that I'm going to a competitor. I'm a free agent.

I can go where I want. I can do what I want because if we win a title, everybody forgets about the other stuff, which is not really the case, especially inside the insular world of the sport. That part. But so, yes, what I want to join in. But I also like, look, this goes to, I don't know, this goes to high school. I hate when the high school teams, when guys, you know, transfer and team up and form super teams. I didn't like when our

U.S. World Cup team, like, do we really need foreign players who never stepped foot on our soil didn't grow up here to compete in soccer? Why don't we just make soccer just because we can recruit German-born players that have an American tie? Just as we can't, doesn't mean we should.

That's the kind of shit that Israel does in basketball so that they can compete and get into the European championship. With the United States, we don't have to do that. And I, so I look at both. sides. Like, did the Warriors really have to? Like, no one's ever said, like, did the Warriors really have to go out and get, just because you can't, what's the, what's the Chris Rock? You can

drive a car with your feet, but that doesn't make it a good idea. That's the ways I look at it. I know real quick, and I know you want to move on. I will defend the Warriors because I think the whole idea of team building is to build the best team you possibly can. I don't, I don't think it's their responsibility to just think about stacking the deck. I think that's what you're supposed to do. I think winning the title every year is great for the Golden State and potentially not great for the NBA. I don't think that their responsibility to worry about that. It's the same attitude, honestly, I had about the exact opposite end, which was with Sam Hinky

and the process in Philadelphia. I think for the Philadelphia 76ers, they should make whatever decision they think is best for the team, but the league wasn't down for that because it was actually starting to affect the reputation of the product and attendance at their games and all this kind of stuff. But if I'm at the club level, I have no problem with Joe Lake up and company basically being like, you know what, we're going to get every great player, we're smarter than you, we're better than you, we're going to win the title for seven straight years. Like, isn't that what you're supposed to aim for?

Yeah, yeah, but it's a little bit like the idea of pure capitalism. Like, just because you can doesn't mean, doesn't mean you should and does it feel better? Or maybe is it also sustainable, right? Like, was that it, you know, was that a sustainable model? Is it better to compete for 15 years than it is for four years? I don't know, or five years, however long it will be. I'll take the five straight finals and then worry about it. about the high lottery pick they're going to have this year.

But, you know, you can differ. No, no, I'm not, I don't know if my answer would be the long, sustainable thing. I just, I do think that there's a, there's a little bit of, you know, like they could have protected him a little bit better. They tried. And I put, I put most of the blame for this on Durant in, he suddenly became surly, which happened to LeBron when he went to Miami, right? People forget LeBron's first year, Miami was kind of a disaster.

in terms of PR. They did that stupid shit. They made fun of Dirk during the NBA finals for being sick. And then they ended up losing. But I do put a little bit of it on the Warriors in terms of not painting a clear picture, not doing as good a job as they could have. Not necessarily Steph because Steph is a guy who always, even when he left, he always credited Durant and saying, you know,

he couldn't have done it without him. And he's right. I do think the Warriors actually needed Kevin Durant. I thought that was maybe never said by them. initially. There was a little bit of pride because they, because remember when they won their first championship, the Cavs had all those, had the injuries to the, to Kevin Love and to Kyrie Irving, and they were very defensive about their path to a championship and winning a championship. That whole thing is, you know, I have not read all of Ethan's book. I can't wait to do so,

but that whole thing is fascinating. Let me, let me, let me fast forward to this. All right. So I think, you know, with what Fucci said, sports are going to come back. There's going to be no fans in the stands, the NBA has to get a season in. What does it look like? Because it's not just that we're going to have a fanless product, but we're going to have guys of varying degrees of shape when eventually they get back together. And I just, what do you think the NBA looks like if they come back and play a tournament in July?

I mean, my honest answer is I don't think it's happening. that's been my consistent position for probably a month now. And I really would like to toss this out to you as well. Like I don't know what the process can be to even hold anything. Like you said, there needs to be a ramp up time. You know, you hear NBA players saying, you know, you need three, four weeks, maybe even six, you know, to get in any semblance of game shape so guys aren't getting hurt.

You know, so there's a training camp requirement that's going to be needed here. And at some point, you have such a distance and dissociation from the season that was, like, how real is this anyway? I mean, I know they need the money, I know they want some closure, and it all makes sense, but, like, if you hold a tournament in August or September or October, like, what does that even mean in the context

of this? Like, you know, people will go down and it'll be like, well, you know, the bucks win the championship. Is that a legitimate championship? You're playing a best of three for two rounds and doing whatever, and some guy has to sit out because suddenly, you know, the virus pops up and suddenly a team's missing a key player. And, and

more so, what is the protocol going to you know, we're not going to have a vaccine by the fault. That's not from all reports that's not possible. So is there mitigation? Who's at risk? Who's signing off on the risk to come back and be around these players and physical contact and the referees and the game officials and people that have to put this on in wherever aren't you're playing in even if there are no fans?

I just don't know what that means. Like, in our current state, if LeBron test positive for coronavirus, one game into a playoff series, is he now sitting out for two or three weeks? And then, like, what do you do with the rest of the guys? That's what I don't understand how this mechanism is supposed to work at this point, unless people sign off on the risk. And I have a hard time believing the players in the players' association are going to do that, but maybe money will eventually talk.

Well, I'm going to, I take the other side just because, I mean, now, look, the NBA has been affected far more so than anybody else. Obviously, Carl Towns' mom passing away makes it be much more real, right? when there's somebody who you're playing against and you know and their mother dies from it. And of course they had the initial thing, which is the Rudy Gobert, Donovan Mitchell thing. That part to me, I do think that that will cause some guys to pause, but I think a lot of these guys think of themselves as impervious to any of this. Remember, we're talking about probably another month removed,

which would give us one more testing, maybe an antibody test. And a much better sense of what exactly we're dealing with. And I just, I just, at some point these guys are coming at, they're basketball players. They want to play basketball. And it's not even just about the money, although the money is a big factor. What would it look like? You know, it's interesting. We don't, we don't put an asterisk by either the Spurs championship in the Shorten season.

And I know this is very different from it. But we don't. Would it feel different? Sure. But like, look, I think the Vegas thing makes a whole hell of a lot of sense. You know, you do your training, your ramp up training, your individual workouts before so while you continue testing. Then you do a training camp. Then you play, I would say you play pool play into a tournament.

And it would be weird. But, you know, like most of these guys have grown up playing in empty gyms in the past. It would just be it you'd find. I think you'd find out what kind of competitor guys really, really were. it would be odd but you know they have to get it in not the closure idea

sounds sounds good on radio and on podcast I think they got like for LeBron he's got to get it in because how many chances does he have win a championship I think that you know I like I'm interested in what the Nets do

in another month or month and a half do they let Kevin Durant play did this can Kyrie Irvin come back and play like did they take it like you know we didn't think we had a shot but fuck it let's go for it You know, I'm intrigued by that. You know, Anthony Davis would be a free agent at the end of this year,

whenever this year is. I don't think he's leaving LA, but there's other players that be free agents as well. The Milwaukee Bucks, like they have two shots of this thing to try and keep Janice. Like, they got to want to try and get this thing in, don't they? They don't want to, you know, they win a championship, and that solidifies them as being Janus's home, one would think. So I, but I don't think that NBA. implications to this beyond just playing the season out for what you're saying.

I mean, teams both for good reasons and for bad reasons may be radically different when they come back and maybe radically different after whenever this season year ends. And if you don't get a chance to see it out, how do you evaluate? You mentioned the honest thing. Obviously, that was a story at various levels of irritating coverage this year, you know, where people are like, well, where's it going to go? And it's like two years before, you know, is technically out of contract there. And it's like, yeah, if they don't get the chance this year, you know, they had the opportunity last year, couldn't get it done against Toronto.

It looked like the best team for most of the season this year, but you know what? They got handled pretty well by LeBron in that game right before the break. And, you know, we don't know. We don't know if Milwaukee can close the deal again this year. And then what? You know, so if they don't get that opportunity, how does that change the thinking, both from a team construct, what do you need to do? You know, what holds you're trying to fill, you know, all that kind of stuff. And then you mentioned, you know, guys like LeBron, you know, later.

in their 30s who do not have these opportunities anymore. Yeah, there's no guarantee, like you said, that Anthony Davis is going to stay. We all think he's going to, but we don't know. And there's no guarantee that LeBron will be this good ever again, you know, with this type of layoff and the aging process, although he seems to be relatively inhuman. So it's disturbing from that standpoint because you'll have an incompletion or an asterisk, so to speak, on the competitive aspect of the season. But man, is there a transactional nature to all of this?

and money involved. It's going to be really weird to manage no matter how they try to conclude this. Okay, let me ask you about the Bucks, since part of your book was studying the Hawks, and the Hawks have become the Bucks only with better players, right, or a better

superstar. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you, exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athletes themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never

make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to SportsSlic. On the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slic Life 12 and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games.

And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing and we're still chasing it and we don't know when we've done enough.

Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth, or are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely.

And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. a good person. Join me, Kear Games, as we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hardway. Open your free iHeartRadio app.

Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. What's up, guys? This is Clever-Taylor the 4th. And on my podcast, The Cliverts show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker, this linebacker walks up

to me, he goes, A, ref. want you to wave at her. What? Time out. Quarterback on office blue with 42. Hey, Red. My mama want you to wave at her. What?

Where's she at? Hey, Miss Parker. Listen to the Cliverts show on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. What's up, fam? This Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano, and our podcast Point Game is about defining the odds. Like the Browardt.

Ron heading into the playoffs without Luca and Austin Reed. And finding ways to win no matter what. He's the smartest player to ever play the game. His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before. And he knows without Luca and Austin Reeves, I got to manipulate the game. We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the playoffs. I think Joker's going to be exhausted this series

because when they don't have Rudy in the lineup, he has to really guard guys like Nas Reid. He has to guard Julius Randall. And then he has to give us everything he gives. us on the night-to-night basis on offense. And when IT's friends stop by, like Quentin Richardson, we dive into some playoff history too. Steve Nass would get that thing.

That man, hell get the flying. He running up the court, licking his fingers why he got the ball. Like, after you go through a training camp with that, Isaiah, you figure it out real quick. Get your ass up and down the court, and you're going to get the ball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And the question has been like, whether it's Boodenholzer or the style or the buy-in to analytics or whatever, does it, will it work in the playoffs? I start by saying this. Like, I love the guys who say, well, Moneyball didn't work. Well, okay. And yes, Moneyball did need three great pitchers with the Oakland A's,

and they needed all those great players that the Red Sox had to beat the Yankees, whatever, in the small samples. But, you know, like the idea that the A's can consistently compete with their payroll tells you whether you win a championship or not. it absolutely works. What are your thoughts on the bucks and this version of what they had, what Bud had in Atlanta in how ultimately if it could work at the very top end of the NBA playoffs?

Yeah, I mean, first off, Moneyball does work. Moneyball with money works even better. You know, if you're smart and have the budget, like, that's the Nirvana, and that's when you saw it seems like the Red Sox cashing it in, right? But at the same extent, I think there is a little bit of a difference between these box teams and that Atlanta team, that specific Atlantic team that won 60 games and happened to be playing the year that I was researching the book. As you said, Janus is better than any guy on that Atlanta team.

So in a Star League, you have the Star, the defending MVP, possibly a two-time MVP. All the metrics suggest that this team is not only the best team in the league this year, but one of the best teams in NBA history in terms of scoring margin and how easily they're dispatching people. I mean, Yonah says sick numbers, and he's doing in what, 31 minutes a game? I mean, the dude, like, never plays in fourth quarters. There was up like 25 points. So then the question is, you know, and then you would understand this better than I would, how does it translate to the playoffs when people can really scheme against you?

And what can Boutenholzer do now that he's had some real good reps? I mean, he's been in two conference finals now, right? This is a, you know, this is not a rookie coach in the playoffs sense. there's not a rookie team in a playoff sense. And, you know, people discount certain things about Milwaukee, but I mean, I love Chris Middleton. I think he's a tremendous player. They've got other guys.

They've shorted up the center with the Lopez brothers. You know, they've got other guys that are pretty good. I'm a little questioning maybe the point card is a little loose. But, you know, in general, like you could quibble, but, I mean, what is there not to like about this Milwaukee team? Other than you're like, I don't trust anybody until they actually get it done. And to me, that's kind of a silly argument, right? Like, nobody gets it done until they get it done.

Like people were saying the same thing about the 2015 Warriors, right? And then they rip off four titles in five years. So I do think this Milwaukee team is very, very real. Now, does that mean they get past Philadelphia and Boston and Toronto and Indiana? Whenever this starts up again, I don't know if they would have done that, you know, if the season hadn't stopped. So now it's like, who knows, like, and what are you supposed to read about that? If Milwaukee crashes out in like a three-game series or whatever they're going to do,

like are we supposed to say, like, oh, yeah, they couldn't get it done? I mean, to me, you know, what you mentioned about the A's, Moneyball didn't work because Moneyball in their application was an application over 162 game regular season. It doesn't necessarily apply to the variance of a five-game playoff series. And anybody can lose in a playoff series, even in the NBA, even if you have the best player, it happens, especially in this type of environment. What don't I like about the – I think what I don't like about the Bucks would be that Yannis can't shoot. And that what he's able – it's – it's – there's some simple –

similarities there to Steph who can shoot, but it's the ability to be physical in the NBA. Look, it's two different sports. Once you can put your hands on a dude and really focus on a team style, the NBA is about having a guy who can just sheer force of will beat his man. And then if you have to help, like what, like to me, why are Steph's numbers, especially in the NBA finals, like early on, why are they down, you know, percentage-wise, even volume-wise? It's because, you know, it's the only time in his career where guys can put their hands on him. And if you can put your hands on staff, you got a shot, you know, at least lowering the percentages. And the same thing is true with Yonis, because when you play off him, he gets a running start.

And I just think, you know, the, I think it's the ability, it's the way in which the sport is officiated is different in the playoffs, especially the further it goes in the playoffs than it is in the playoffs than it is in the, in the regular season. That's why it's hard to say what it would actually, what it would actually look like. And we're live here outside the Perez family home just waiting for the, and there they go. Almost on time this morning. Mom is coming out the front door strong with a double arm kid carry. Looks like dad has the bag's daughter is bringing up the rear. Oh, but the diaper bag wasn't closed. Diapers and toys are everywhere. Ooh, but mom is just nailed the perfect car seat buckle for the toddler.

And now the eldest daughter, who looks to be about nine or ten, has secured herself in the booster seat. Dad zips the bag closed, and they're off. Ah, but looks like mom doesn't realize her coffee cup is still on the roof of the car, and there it goes! Oh, that's a shame. That mug was a fan favorite. Don't sweat the small stuff.

Just nail the big stuff. Like making sure your kids are buckled correctly in the right seat for their age and size. Learn more at NHTSA.gov slash the right seat. Visit NHTSA.gov slash the right seat. Brought to you by Nita and the Ad Council. Look through your children's eyes to see the true magic of a forest. It's a storybook world for them. You look and see a tree.

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You were editor at ESPN.com when we wrote the college basketball page. What do college sports look like when we come back? And I say that not just, I'm not talking about time and date and financially, this is a disaster. This is like for for businesses in the media business for example like our sales are going to be down right. We have sponsors, but sponsors have to cut their marketing budgets.

But the expectations would be that at some point in time those bounce back up, hopefully sooner rather than later. And happy days are here again. And we all benefit financially from it. That's why so many in media and so many executives are taking cut temporary cuts, knowing that right now it's down, but it's going to come back up. It's not really the way it works in college athletics. There is no ability to make back the money. The bills continue.

You still have the debt service on your buildings. You still have to pay the scholarships. You still have to pay the coaches, even though right now you won't pay the bonuses and sometimes they're dialing it back. And when it returns, much like in the business, like look, in the business world, lots of places that were borderline in terms of making it are going to go under. That's just kind of the nature of business. and the process gets sped up.

We haven't had that in college athletics in a long time, really since Title IX. What do you think the college sports landscape looks like when we get back online? Yeah, there's a lot going on there. I think, honestly, everybody was so caught up in March Madness being canceled because we enjoy the spectacle and the games,

but I think the business story there was really underreported, and that was that the NCAA tournament is a huge, basically the revenue generator for the NCAA, and a huge portion of that money is distributed to the colleges to support their other athletic programs. And what was the cut on that? I forget the number. Was it like $240? It's like $350 million.

Yeah. And then the other part is like the big conferences, which would have benefited more financially from the NCAA cut, they also lost their conference tournament. So you're talking about each conference losing, you know, in the $25 million. range in each school, you know, Arizona said they're going to have a $7.5 million at least minimum budget shortfall. And then you factor in, again, when we get back online college football season, I don't think people understand that the local revenue, the local mom and pops, the car dealerships, et cetera, those places can also help fund the athletic department

and all. That's all the ancillary budget, right? Now, those companies, maybe they haven't gone under, but they're sure as hell not going to spend money on stuff they don't need. when they're just trying to make ends meet to get to when the economy recovers. Yeah, I mean, I think so the urgency, you know, obviously we talked about the pro-level and the urgency to play a season because of the TV money, and that's obviously an enormous factor for major conference football in the fall, right?

So let's put aside whether people are actually going to go to stadiums, which I think at this point is very unlikely, if not impossible, starting in late August. But they're going to have to figure out a way to play the game. Now, the question is, you know, we talk about basketball and what is the protocol there. Here you have, and I know we disagree a little bit on the semantics, but let's for the sake of the argument say you have unpaid athletes. I know they're paid in scholarship money, but they're not paid in salary. So these are not professional athletes.

You have unpaid student athletes on campus. They're being asked now, you have what, 85 scholarship players, whoever will walk-ons. These are huge operations. There's already conversation about, well, we're not going to have in-person classes in the fall, but of course we can have athletic practice. I mean, who knows what the legal ramifications of that, are. You start separating the in-person requirement to be in class from the in-person requirement to be an athlete on the campus. You know, and then there's the protocol of like, well, how do you

keep the disease from spreading? Well, how can we mitigate this? What happens if a team has a viral spread? What happens if it happens to coaches? You know, there's support staffers and older people around these programs, too, not even talking about alums, you know, just, you know, trainers and whoever else is around the program. These are not all 19-year-old kids, as Mike Gundy was sort of suggesting. So I just, I'm really having a hard time getting my arm. around something really successful in the fall. But at the same extent, as you're pointing out from a financial standpoint, these universities have to play this football season.

They cannot pass on this TV money. That would be an epic financial disaster for a lot of these colleges. So my best guess would be it'll be played. I don't know if they'll be able to play the games without fans in the fall because, you know, three months or four months of a lot of time in terms of how this is all developing with COVID. But, you know, you're starting to hear more rumblings about what? They played as a spring sport.

And that's something I can see as reasonable because I've, don't think there's any way these universities can go without the TV revenue that's fueling their departments. I don't know. I could be dead wrong. I don't understand. I don't know. I think people would show up at the games.

Oh, I think they were allowed in certain areas. Right. Which is a whole separate story. Yeah. You read about that. I know, I think that's a separate story. I think it was a biological bomb, one of the Champions League games over in Europe,

right before the, you know, sports. round to a hall. And they suggested that that was potentially a key episode in the Italian outbreak. I could see something like that happening. And I think governors are going to have a very hard decision in some of these states to say, you know what? We're not back to normal and you guys can't do this, even though it's so meaningful to you in the community. Yeah, I don't, I just don't see that. I think it's starting to become a political battle more so than a health battle. And I fully understand how, but I just the numbers don't, I can't see the numbers supporting.

I don't know if the numbers don't seem to be supporting keeping this thing shut down into the summer let alone into the fall. I don't know. You're saying economically. Not just economically, but obviously economically,

but also like the just the numbers don't match up. Now is a lot of it, the fact that we've done social distancing? Yes, that's a good portion of it. But I just think that we're going to get, you're going to get to a point where, especially in the markets where college football is more popular, Midwest, Southeast, where people are going to go, this is about politics,

I'm going to the game. And you already have, you know, Republican governors are like open it back up. I just, you know, I feel like Texas and Florida and the Midwest, I think it's going to be business as usual. I really, really do. And look, the governor is going to have to wrestle with that, right? And I want to make this commentary for a minute, but as any. political as possible. There is a point where the economic damage and the damage to everyday life is greater than the health risk. Yes.

I don't know when that is, and I don't know what will be required to be in place for that decision to be made, right? Because you could have a scenario where, especially in states where there's less population density, that you're not seeing these same types of disasters, especially in like in New York City. see the mitigation that was required in a city like San Francisco or a city like Seattle where the initial outbreak happened. And maybe that's not happening to that depth in some of these less population-dense areas

of states that, you know, in a lot of ways, so happens to overlay against. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending. Opinions are flying. And nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo.

Every episode we're cutting through the noise. Breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the, the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports Slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to Sports Slice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

And for more, follow Timbo Slic Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Keer Games. And in recognition of Mental Health Awareness Month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing.

And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth? Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro.

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Search Learn the hard way and listen now. What's up, guys? This is Clivert Taylor the 4th. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker, this linebacker walks up to me.

He goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Time out. Quarterback on office, Blue, 42. Dude. Hey, Rhett, my mama want you to weigh better. What? Where's she at? Hey, Miss Parker.

Listen to the Cliverts show on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Hey, I'm Deanna Maria Riva, actress, mother, lover, and a Gen X woman walking through life one hot flash and hormonal crying jag at a time. You ladies know what I mean. I'll bet you a perimenopausal chin here you do. So let's talk about it. Join me on my new podcast. How Hard Can It Be with the Adamani Arriva, where I call on my Gen X squads from Ohio to Hollywood as we navigate midlife's most fantastic BS. All of a sudden, I'd had hanginess happening on my own. I was like, what the hell is that?

I was married when I had her, so I didn't even consider how empty that nest was going to be. Mood swings, night sweats, fupas, sex drive. Wait, what sex? Dating at 45. How high can it be getting naked at 50? with the new guy. That one's kind of hard. Well, that's lighting. They say we can't polish a turd, but we're sure going to try.

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with Diana Maria Riva as part of my Cultura podcast network available on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The major college football areas. But what happens when you're bring all those people together. I mean, that's why there's this uproar about, you know, going to church on Easter, or having these public gatherings or why conferences are not happening, and that type of stuff.

So I think that's a really dangerous and difficult presumption to say, you know what, we've got this thing under control. And I strongly believe we have it under control because everybody's been staying in their house as best we can. That's the only reason we have it under control. And nothing is fundamentally changed about our ability at this point to cure this. We've just stopped people from transmitting it to each other. bringing 90,000 people back into a stadium in early September, I don't know, Doug. I would get against. Yeah, I don't, I mean, listen, and again, this is just based upon everything I've read.

The fear in COVID was not just over the virus. It was over our ability to, our ability to have enough hospital beds and ventilators, right? And because there hasn't been, because there hasn't been the spike that many people feared, that hasn't happened. But also, and this is, I think, important, is because enough of these businesses have transitioned to making ventilators, I mean, again, you fast forward to the fall, and one would think we'd have plenty of ventilators. We'd have more advanced treatment, a better sense of it. We also have this antibody test. I would guess, you know, we won't have a vaccine, but we'd have an antibody test.

I don't know. I just, I think we're doing this thing where we're being. super, super cautious, which is smart and working, but eventually people go, all right, enough with it. It's a hurricane and it skimmed the coast. It could have been a full, we could have gotten the full shot of it. We did not. We're more prepared for the next time and we move forward, right?

Because I just, I don't believe that the economy and sports is such an intertwined part of our economy, especially these college campuses that I don't think we can keep them shut down forever. No, no, I agree with that. but I would say that the mitigation truthers, so as they are, you can't say like, oh, it wasn't that bad only because of all the stuff we did, and then say that stuff wasn't necessary. I think it wasn't that bad, because there's a little bit of paralysis right now is because our, you know, our first solution to this was to flatten the curve, not overwhelm our health system in hospitals and try to reduce the spread as we could. but that doesn't eliminate the spread. What it does is lengthen it, right? I mean, we haven't fundamentally figured this out yet,

and that's to me the point. Like, if we don't have an antiviral, we don't have any mitigation therapies and we don't have a vaccine, well, what happens when this spikes back up? What happens when you dip a toe into the pool and you start reopening a restaurant or a movie theater, and then 10 people get sick?

Or you open up sports, and you have eight athletes test positive on a team? What does that look like, and what is the breadth of, you know, the expansiveness of the mitigation? what steps do you have to unwind at that point? And when it comes to scheduling a season, what does that mean?

Like, you can't just be like, oh, we're not playing a football game this week and do that in perpetuity, right? You can't do that in an NBA playoff. You know, so are you treating this like, oh, well, sorry the guys are injured, and, you know, you're down three players. Hold on. And I think the college level specifically because of the relationship between the universities

and the, quote, unquote, not employees that provide the actual athletic service. I think that's even more nuanced. from a legal and risk standpoint. But it's the getting COVID is not a death sentence. Right? Like there's, there's 25,000, 25,000 people would say otherwise. No, I understand.

But, but, like, but in terms of the ratio, what is the, what is the fatality rate of this, of this disease? Of this, this virus. We don't know. And that's part of it. I mean, you know, you have wild claims in either direction. It's worse than the flu. It's not as bad as the flu. I mean, I think it is worse than the flu.

I think most evidence suggests it's more. deadly. But we don't know because it's hard to assign to people because there are people dying. You know, what is the stat this month in New York City that 2,000 extra unexplained deaths at home in New York City? So what do you assign that to? I mean, is that COVID? And now they adjusted the numbers up yesterday to try to account for these presumed deaths because we're not testing everybody. I know people here in Denver who have had every symptom of COVID and can't get tested for it. Well, I would also say, but there's the, there's the, there's the, you have it and sit at home. So what happened in those situations? So I don't think we know enough yet, Doug,

about how dangerous this really is. And we're seeing more and more evidence. It might not be as many teenagers, you know, in the case of college athletes. And it probably would not impact a lot of pro athletes because of age and physical conditioning and health and all that type of stuff. But boy, there are a lot of people around college and pro sports that are in their 30, 40, 50s that would be very much in danger if this rear its head for the wrong people. No, it's going to be fast now. Obviously, we have to learn more, you know, and then there's this kind of working hypotheses as to whether or not it actually ran through Southern California in the winter, right, because there's a really bad flu season that didn't align with what was called the normal flu. And you have 60 and 90 flights to China a day. And, you know, logic would tell you that somebody had it previously. There's a lot we don't. Last thing. Last question. If this. season, if there is no conclusion of this season,

will LeBron ever win a championship again? I'll vote yes. I think he's got a couple of good runs left in him, and he's still, if not, the best player every night on a regular basis. He can be the best player when it matters, and I think that matters in India.

The book is chasing perfection. It's really good. It's very, very interesting. It's written by Andy Glockner. He's a long-time friend of mine. He's a resident now of Denver, who is kind of caught in that we are a really good team and a fun team and we have a unique player that no one else has. But is that enough to win an NBA championship?

The answer is probably no. Nonetheless, you know, I'd say at some point, let's do this again. And we'll talk about Denver and we'll talk about Arturus Kurnissivus, now he's the general manager of the Bulls and what we think of that. In the meantime, though, thanks for joining us. Appreciate you spending some time. Appreciate it, DG. Always great catching up with you, man. Be sure to catch the live edition of the Doug Gottlieb show weekdays at 3 p.m. Eastern, noon Pacific. All right, a fun discussion. There's so much unknown. I mean, so much unknown. I just, I feel like basketball is going to get back.

I feel like we're going to have basketball without fans to somehow finish up the season. It won't be perfect, but you're making the best of just an awkward, weird situation, right? And then how we view that championship, if somebody wins it, is going to be interesting as well. My thanks to Andy Glockner, of course, you can pick up his book chasing perfection. We will have, we got a couple more fun podcast upcoming for you. I want to talk more about these guys coming straight out as we get more information on what the G League thing will look like. I suspect, suspect that what had been planned for this G League select team won't ultimately come to be because of these changing times. That's just the nature of what happens in every business.

But we'll see. We'll see. It's not a moneymaker. And if it's not a moneymaker, why the hell are you doing it? That that's what every executive, every small, large business, that's what everybody's talking about right now. If you ain't making money, why am I paying you? Right.

And especially in the NBA, if you're going to cut things, what do you cut? is it funding towards a G-League team that wasn't going to make anybody money? I don't know. I don't know what the answer is because Adam Silver does seem to be a guy who's been convinced that some former fashion of this does need to exist. The crazy part is we still produce the best basketball players in the world, and yet we're trying to change the way we produce those basketball players. Right?

Like we always, well, you know, you look at they have, you know, they have this way of doing it with the Australian Institute of Sports. and you look at all these other countries that are producing. But, like, that's great. But they also don't have the AAU system. They don't have the high school system. They don't have the college system that we have, which has traditionally produced a much greater volume.

Does that make it better? I don't know. I don't know. Anyway, you can tweet at me at Gottlieb Show. Also the Instagram handle as well at Gottlieb Show. And then you can check out the Doug Gottlieb Show daily. 3 to 6 Eastern Time, 123 Pacific. You can stream it, Fox Sports Radio.com.

listen on your Iheart radio app, or you can download the podcast, wherever you download podcast. My thanks for you for downloading, subscribing, and rating. I'm Doug Gottlieb, and this is all ball. If you love to be remembered as the person who gives the best birthday gifts, I'm here to tell you that 1-800flowers.com is your ultimate birthday gifting destination. 1-800 flowers has thoughtful and artfully created options that are guaranteed to deliver the best birthday surprise.

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I'm Timbo, and every episode we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the biggest moments in sports and giving you the real story behind the headlines. and we're going straight to the source, the athletes themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions in the moment, and the stuff nobody gets to hear. Listen to Sports Slice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

And for more, follow Timbo Slical Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest,

SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, what's good, y'all?

You're listening to Learn the Hardway with your favorite therapist and host Kier Games. This space is about black men's experiences, having honest conversations that's really not safe to have anywhere. but you're having him with a licensed professional who knows what he's doing. How many men carry a suit are armored. It signals to the world that you're not to be played with. And just because you have the capability that does not mean that you need to, listen to learn the hard way on the AHA radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

What's up, guys? This is Clivert Taylor the Fourth. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker walks up to me, he goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Time out of my. Quarterback on office blue with 42.

Hey, rec, my mama want you to wave at her. What? Where's she at? Hey, Ms. Parker. Listen to the Clifford show on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Thank you.