The Herd with Colin Cowherd - All Ball - Kawhi NBA's Best; College Hoop Takes; Air Force HC Dave Pilipovich On Life In Hoops, Program Building

Episode Date: January 16, 2020

This week, Gottlieb looks at All-Star stat padding, why Kawhi is the best player in the NBA, his take on this week of college hoop. Air Force Head Coach Dave Pilipovich joins the pod to detail his path from growing up in Pittsburgh, to his long path through the coaching ranks, and ultimately landing the head job at Air Force, Make sure you download, rate and subscribe here to get the latest All Ball Podcasts! Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Wow. Then after that game seven, Mark keep coming to him. He's like, you know, I love you, dog. You know, it's all love. This was just playoffs. This was just basketball.

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Fantastic story and storyteller. go from Pittsburgh PA to the Air Force Academy and to Infinity and Beyond. Oh, I did. I did in fact go there. All right, let me give you a couple topics before we hop into our interview with Dave Pilipovich. First thing is, and I've heard this from a couple NBA people. You know, there are guys in the NBA, and I won't name names because that's not fun. It's more fun for you to guess. There are players that play to their stats and they want their stats to be so gaudy that they are All-Stars. And so you start to wonder, hey, what is the line that we can cut off for a player to be an

All-Star? Because, you know, empty points are empty points. Like, you put up 30 a night, but if your team sucks, what does it actually matter? So I'm not going to pick. I just, there are guys you watch. You can load up on the assist by holding it for an extra dribble or two dribbles that can score at dead points in the game that don't really affect the game but can help their plus minus as well and hope their overall point total.

I just, I almost wonder if for the NBA, and I'm not a big NBA All-Star game guy. Like I can't remember last time I watched the NBA All-Star game, but it's the significance of it within the league. Are you going to reward somebody for just playing for stats? Are you going to award somebody who attain stats while getting wins? That would be the big challenge to me if I was voting for the All-Star game. As for the NBA, it's really interesting in watching Kauai Leonard go for 43 in less than 30 minutes. That guy's the best player in the NBA. If you haven't come around to it, you haven't been watching how he competes at the top level of the NBA.

Does that mean they're going to win the Western Conference and win an NBA championship for compete? I don't know. Everything has to go right. And for the Clippers, generally, everything goes wrong. On the other hand, if it comes down to Kauai versus LeBron at this point in their career, I'm going to take Kauai Leonard. He's younger. He is incredibly efficient. He's been to those big spots before.

He's been down before. And he's come back before. Not that you couldn't say the same thing about LeBron, but he is 34. years old. In regards to college basketball, it continues to be a turnstile at the top. But I'm fascinated by some of these teams' offensive droughts. We saw Michigan State. We've seen Oklahoma State scored 101 points in the last five halves of basketball.

You do the math on how bad that is. West Virginia has held their last three opponents below 50 points. They're guarding people. I think it's a combination of the fact that there's just the talent's too spread out. and there's not great talent at the top. The game has gotten back to being more physical. I think you're moving back to three point shot, I think really affects a three point shot.

Because guys aren't line huckers. Huggers, they're shooting that ball at an NBA distance. And they're not NBA shooters. And it gets, I know the numbers dipped down and then came back up and then moved it back last time. But now you've moved it, what feels like a more substantial portion back. And I think that's a big cause for why scoring is down.

All right, let's get to our interoperable. review on this podcast. It's Dave Pilipovic. He's the head coach of the Air Force. Be sure to catch the live edition of the Doug Gottlieb show weekdays at 3 p.m. Eastern, noon Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and the IHeart Radio app. All right, so we welcome in. He's the head coach of the Air Force Academy. He's Dave Pilipovich. And Coach, I want to go back to the beginning, to the very big, not not birth, but to the beginning. Your first memory of basketball is what?

You know, being a youngster in a small town in Pittsburgh watching our high school team play. What high school? Probably Duquesne High School, which is closed now. I was probably six years old, and my dad took me to the game. I thought they were the best players around, and I thought the atmosphere and excitement and watching them play was unbelievable and caught me. at an early age. What was your dad like?

Hard worker. Pittsburgh Town, high school education, but owned a bar and little restaurant for 35 years and worked seven days a week. Steeltown bar. You can come outside the bar and turn left. You see the blast furnace. So the guys were in at 7 in the morning drinking a shot of beer

and in at 2 in the morning drinking a shot of beer. We lived above it in an apartment probably. 700 square feet at the most. And that's where I was born and raised and loved the Steelers, the Pirates of Penguins. And back in the day, the ABA, the Pittsburgh Pipers and Condors knew a little bit about them. And I grew up that way. And I knew I didn't want to work and own the bar because he worked too hard. Seven days a week, you worked every day.

Okay, so how did you get drawn? Because, you know, Western Pennsylvania's football area, right? Yeah. And like your childhood is the golden era. of Pittsburgh sports, as you point out, right? You had the We Are family, Pittsburgh Pirates, you had the steel curtain. Why basketball?

You know, basketball, I was a skinny little kid, slow and couldn't guard a shot glass, right? So I could make a few shots. So I played, you know, from seven-year-old, seven- and eight-year-old on up, some local teams and then junior high and all that. And I just loved basketball. and in high school, I was a Division III recruit and went to, committed to Bethany College in West Virginia, and the coach left in May and went to Mountain Union,

offered me a chance to go to Mountain Union, but I didn't visit, so I went to Teal College, which was not a basketball hotbed, four programs. But I was there, and I played for three coaches of four years. But my sophomore year, we had a coach by the name of Mike Griffin, who just came from Colgate University, and he coached us for one year, and he just really made an impact on me because I wasn't a great student, didn't want to study, just wanted to watch ESPN and go shoot ball, and that was it. And so he got me to where I could do better in school, and he made an impact on me.

And I said, if I can do that to someone else, I want to do that. And as I graduated, I probably wrote to every college coach in the country for a GA position. I got one of the Division II school in Pennsylvania. Okay, wait, but your speed, we got, we got time here. Okay, so Teal College, Teal College is an evangelical college, right? Lutheran Lutheran school Okay, so it's a Lutheran school

So, okay And it's in what, Greenville So I don't know Okay, so I don't know where that is In relation to Pittsburgh, how far? Two hours north of the most What was that? So what's that like?

You go from, like you're in Steeltown You live above a bar To this really quiet, peaceful, private Lutheran college. What was, what do you remember About that transition? You know, we lived above a bar.

I heard the sirens of the police in a fire truck or maybe someone had too much a drink or a bottle against the building or so and just noise. You always have noise in action. I get up there and it's quiet. There's a farmland. It's from different areas because I was inner city kid. So it was a culture change at first. And then, you know, Division III program, you go and you think you're the recruit. You go and there's 25 kids at the first workout, 25 guys for the first.

workout. Say, holy crap. You know, where's this going? And, but it, but it worked out. It worked out. I met my wife there, so that's probably the best thing that happened. Why three coaches in four years? Well, coach, the first coach we had, that is funny story, first coach we had,

he was there for a while, and he was coaching the golf team, assistant SID and coaching basketball, and something happened when he and the AD got a little sideways. So he was also the tennis coach. Listen to this. So at the end of the year, he's still employed. and then maybe two weeks out of the season, they told him they weren't going to bring him back,

but he still had a tennis coach. Well, he only had five players on the tennis team, and he says, you play tennis. And I said, well, you know, I hit it around. He goes, we have a match at Walsh College, which the head basketball coach was Bob Huggins at the time. He said, we have a match tomorrow. Can you go?

I said, do I miss school? We said, yes, I'll be there. So we go when we play tennis match, that was terrible. He spent the whole day with Coach Huggins in his office looking for a job opportunity. after the match, you know, you go, what, $6 to go to Burger King? And I'm sitting in the front row of the van, and he says, where are you guys going to eat? And that's, well, let's go to Ponderosa.

You know, back in the day, Ponderosa, that was the big thing, right? He goes, we don't have that in a budget. And I swear to you, I looked at him, and I said, Coach, what are they going to do, fire you? And I thought he would take a swing at me. And he looked at me, you're right, we're going to Ponderosa. What's his name? Excuse me? What was his name?

Jim Borkich. Jim Borchick. He was from Barberton, Ohio, basketball hotbed in high school. He went back and became a very successful high school coach in that area. But he was at Teal College for a time. I think he came from Marietta prior to that. Okay, so then your second coach was the one who had an impact on you. What was his name? Mike Griffin. He came from Colgate, and at the time, he was a Colgate. He had the leading score in a country. I can't think of his name. A guard about six-foot and led the country in scoring. and he was not renewed at Colgate, so he takes the job at Kill, and we were back.

I mean, I think we were 4 and 18 that year maybe, maybe somewhere around there, but he was really good. I started a couple games. He just was, you know, be at practice on time, do the right things, go to class, and he was doing all the right things and made an impact on me. So we had some kids from Cleveland that weren't doing the right things, and he disciplined them. That's all I got to start a few games because when somebody got suspended,

I got to start. But at the end of the year, he got the, the opportunity to go to RPI, Rensselaer Politic Institute, Division III, and Troy, New York. And he went there, and he ended up lasting maybe 30-some years coaching there. And then who is your next coach? Robert Posey Rhodes, who just passed away two years ago, was a great player. Good player. Good player at Wake Force.

Played back in the day, Wake Force, about 6'6. Can really score. Skinny guy, funny, put it to rub a snuff in during the games, and he coached my junior senior year, and I was captain my senior year. How good were you guys? We came from three wins my freshman year, three coaches, and, you know, there's 26 guys, only myself and another freshman state through our senior years.

And then our senior year, we played for the conference championship last game of year against Hiram College in Ohio, and we got beat. So we made progress. All right, so you get done. You write all these letters. You write all these letters because you want, so you wanted to coach. So what was the, how did you get your first job? Well, I got at a Division II school, California University of Pennsylvania, about an hour from Pittsburgh at Division II school, and knew somebody who was a GA prior to that, who put a good word in for me.

I worked the old Metro Index camp, which was big in the east. Five-star was obviously the king, and then Metro was probably second that time. I worked those camps in the summer. I got to know the coach a little bit, Jim Loomis, and I was working at a camp in July. I still didn't have anything. And after one day, camp, he said, you want the job? And I said, yeah, he goes, all right, it's yours. And that was it.

That was it. And a camp counselor that year, those years, it was Tom Crean. He was a GA at Central Michigan. He was working the camp. It was Jeff Van Gundy was a GA at Providence. Herb Sendick, who was a Providence with Petino. And Rob Kennedy, who ended up now run the hoop group. He was at Columbia as an assistant.

We would play pickup. You know, he put the campers of bed. We'd play pickup at night. Wow, that is a small world. Okay, so what was it like coaching at California University in Pennsylvania? Oh, my, you know, you did everything. You know, they had one full-time, they did have a full-time assistant, excuse me, that year. The next year.

Last night, a blown call changed the game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise. Breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games,

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Time out. Quarterback on office blue of 42. Hey, Rhett, my mama want you to wave at her. What? Where's she at? Hey, Miss Parker. Listen to the Clippers show on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your

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If you're going to look at stats and numbers, he has no shot at making this World Cup team. And the truth about the U.S. national team. It wouldn't be a huge surprise if our team ends up in the quarterfinals or potentially a great run into the semi-finals. The World Cup is almost here. Experience it all with us. Listen, Inside American Soccer with Tom Bogart and Tabramos on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, wherever you get your podcast. So you were basically the full-time assistant. So you recruited and, you know, it was a young guy.

You want to recruit sign everybody. You want to sign top five kids in the country, right? And you realize you can't. So check study halls, get the kids to class, drive the van, watch the, you know, you did all that. Sweat the Court. So I'm there. We start, and it's September, and I'm going on my first recruiting trip to Laplata, Maryland to go see a kid play, and I tell Coach Lomas, I'm leaving, I'll be back, blah, blah.

He goes, well, I won't see you when I'm back. I said, what do you mean? You won't see me? He goes, I just took a job with Bruce Parkill, Penn State. I'm leaving. That's how he was. I said, you're what? He was, oh, where you're good.

To your GA position, you're fine. He'll call you on Sunday. And he left, he went to Penn State. There was an assistant of Bruce Parkill, and about a three-reased. They hired Jim Boone. He was assistant at Baptist College. It was Baptist back then. Now it was Charles of Southern.

And he came in and we developed a great relationship and had a nice little run there for two years. And I got hired as a full time. I stayed one more year. If you love to be remembered as the person who gives the best birthday gifts, I'm here to tell you that 1-800 Flowers.com is your ultimate birthday gifting destination. 1-800 flowers has thoughtful and artfully created options

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So we were Division II for two years. and then Division I, and he offered me the head job at Florida. Excuse me, the assistant job of Florida Atlantic. And I thought I was in the big time I was going to make 14-5 and live in both of the town of Florida. What was that like? And no health benefits, no health benefits. No health benefits.

That's crazy. So you go to Florida Atlantic in 1989. What do you remember about showing up there? Because you were assistant head coach there, too. Like he made some big promises. You know, beautiful plays. Amberlin had a restaurant there. You would see him around town.

He would play tennis on our campus with our tennis players. So he was around, you know, Boca is just beautiful, the homes, the mansions, the gated communities. And here I come from living above a bar in a bunk bed to I was 21 years old to live in a Boca. And I was dating my wife's the time. And I said, hey, we need more money for me to live out here. Why don't we push up our wedding? We're engaged, get married. So we got married in November.

and she came down and she worked in the banking industry and made a little bit more money than me and got benefits. So we made it work. How was your teams? You know, we won 21 and 20 games. The two years we were in Division II. And then we went Division I and we would play 12 to 14 guarantee games a year. Oh. Just for money, just for the golf team to get new golf balls and baseball.

They didn't have football back then. So it was murder. It was murder there for a while. We would play West Virginia one night, then go to Pitt, and then bust down to Louisiana and play Tulane. And, you know, the Boris game, I think we played Memphis back when they were Memphis State and Penny Hardaway, and we got beat, I think, by 56. But our second year's Division I program, we were 0-21, finally beat Stetson University up into land,

because we were moving into the Transamerica Conference back in that day, beat Stetson. And then two nights later, we got to Entry State. and Les Robinson was a coach there. They were about 16 and 15 that year somewhere, just about the middle of, you know, 500. And we go to empty state. We're down 21 a half time.

We upset them by two, and we win that game. So, you know, we finished that year two and 25, I think, but with a win at an ACC school. What does that like to coach a team that's two and 25? Like, how, you know, how do you handle that? How do you handle the emotions of losing, you know, how do you handle your newly married? the kids like you learn i mean like listen you know what is it you're either winning or you're learning

right you learned a lot what do you what do you learn most you know we had old guys from the bahamas who said they were 24 they made me 34 we had six junior college kids we have a couple transfers but great group and worked hard but it was tough you know because you're going out you're playing the money the guarantee we're at alburn we're at memphis we're at west virginia we're dukeen we were at uh iowa i was i was i was i was state, you name it, USC. I mean, we were everywhere. Coach Ravling brought the USC team and played up actually in Florida,

at West Palm Beach at the convention center, which was nice of him to do that. But it was a struggle. You know, you're playing at the end of practice, you're putting time on the clock and playing a game just so you can get a winner, you know, just so a couple of the guys could feel good. But to their credit, they were older, they were more mature, and it was a great place to live and go to campus. to be on campus there.

So that part helped out. You know, if we were cold and there was 20 degrees and freezing and snow and all that, could have been a lot rougher. But coming out of the gym and, you know, maybe losing 72 degrees on the palm trees, that helped. Okay, so then you went to what, Georgia State? Georgia State, yeah, because we had our son, Kyle, in Florida. And, you know, I was raised.

My parents worked, but they worked at the bar. We lived right there. Kelly, my wife, her parents, her mom was home. So we wanted, because you're not home, as you know, as a college coach, you're never home. So we took her off the pay-borrow, and she stayed home to take care of Kyle. By that time I was making 195, I got a big raise. But we wanted to have another child, which we ended up having our daughter in Georgia. So I said, I got to get a job because I still have medical benefits.

So I got the job at Georgia State's assistant for $30,000 and full medical, and that was big time. And so then we had our second child, Kelsey, down in Georgia, and it worked out. Who'd you work for Georgia State? Carter Wilson, one of the greatest guys I've ever been around. He was an assistant. He was a longtime high school coach at Decatur High School in Georgia. They were usually top 25, one of the top five teams in USA Today. He took over for Bob Reinhardt, who was an NBA guy with the Hawks organization.

He was at Georgia State. Carter took over. I was with Carter for two years there. And then the opportunity came. Jim Boone stayed in California after I left. So it was very successful, Division II. Got the Division I job in Pittsburgh at Robert Morris, offered us an opportunity to come back home and be back with grandparents and all that.

And it was too hard to pass up, so we moved back to Pittsburgh for a while. All right. So you come back, and now you're in Pittsburgh, where you grew up. 19, 1996. You're at Bobby Moe. What was the program? Bobby Moe. You know, a program was down a little bit.

Jared Dorman was there. He was successful. I went to the anti-tournament a few times, and they had some good programs at Rob Morrison, but it hit some tough times. They made a change, and Jim was brought in because he was in the area, ultra-successful Division II, a couple final fours. But it was, excuse me, facilities weren't great, budgets weren't great. You're in a Northeast conference.

But it was a chance that he wanted to be a divisional coach and to be in the same recruiting area where he was. And we were happy to go home. but at the time I was making now 36 in Georgia State, and I didn't tell Kelly, I took the job at Robert Morris for 30. And until we got there and got our first paycheck, she goes, what's what we doing? I said, well, we're not going to make as much as we used to, but we're home.

How'd you take that? You know, here we go, here we go. But we were bad at first year. I think we were 3 in 26. And then we got some better recruits that we took an LSU transfer, a kid out of Beckley, West Virginia, by the name of Gene Neighbors. and Gene led us to, at four years, he led us from three wins to the conference championship game or his senior year against Central Connecticut State that year, and they beat us obviously

the championship, and then we moved on Eastern Michigan after that. Okay, wait, wait, wait, wait, you're like, you do this thing in fast forward, okay? So how do you, how do you go from three wins? Like, what is the process like of, I mean, you know, because that building is, really, really difficult, right? It is just really, really difficult. And it's more than just getting one transfer. You come in, you're at home, and, you know, you're trying to make it work.

What was the, because I'm looking at your stats from 19, 96, 90. Jim Boone, the head coach, you're four in 23 your first year. Four and 23, yeah, yeah. Right? Second year, you're eight and 19. Keith Jones and, is it Nile Feelein? is your two leading scores. Yeah.

Right? And then you went, then you went eight, right? Then your third year, you add in Gene Neighbors to Keith Jones and Kevin Covert and now you'd finish 15 and 12 and then

and then your fourth year, you're 18 and 12. What do you remember about the product? What was, what kind of coach was Jim Boone? What did he run? What was his philosophy? Yeah.

Very, very. very good man-to-man defense as a coach, pack-line defense, so we gapped everything, get pressure the ball, really good help defenders, and a motion team, really spread the floor,

four guys out, single posts, a lot of screening, a lot of back screening, down screen, a lot like the Indiana teams when Alford played. Coach Knight.

You know, we would go to Indiana every year and watch practice and watch film and ran a lot of Coach Bennett's defensive stuff. Well, when he was coaching back in Wisconsin

back then, and then a lot of, of Bob Knight's motion. But we got some better players. You know, Gene being transferred from LSU, Covert was a transfer from Akron. Chris Hopkins, a 6-9, Ju-Coke transfer out of Santa Fe Community College of Florida. And we added the City League player the year from Pittsburgh, the Ron Jackson, 65, ball-hailing guard. So we had some good players, too, that helped us get better in that league. Okay. So then you go to Eastern Michigan. That's in Yipsilani, Michigan.

Yeah, you've been there? I have. I actually, ABCD Camp was there in the mid-90s, in the mid-90s. Ben Braun did a great job at Eastern Michigan. He did do a great job. When you showed up there, what was it like? Gosh, it was, well, we have Antonio Gates. Okay, we're going to be a Hall of Fame, you know, former at tight end with a charge

is a right, Hall of Famer. So Antonio Gates is on our team. He was the state player of the year in football in Michigan. Goes to Michigan State to play football for Coach Saban. He was academically ineligible. He's a partial, you know, prop at that time, the term was used. So he sits out. He leaves Michigan State to come play basketball at Eastern.

So he's there at that coaching change. He didn't play yet. So we inherit Antonio. and he's practiced with us in the spring, and our football coach at the time who was newly hired, says, this kid's going to play on Sundays in the football. She'll come on, you know, is he that good? So we really never get to coach him

because academically there were some things he just wasn't strong right there that semester, and he decides to go out west to Duke go to play basketball. Then the story goes, you know, goes to Kent State and play basketball leads up to an elite eight, and then the rest of his history. which is funny, though, he worked camp for us that year. He was still with us.

And I'm pretty sure we paid him. I'm pretty sure he paid him his camp feet. But through a mutual friend out in LA, years later, he's played for the Chargers. He runs into him, and he said, they mentioned my name, and he said, you tell him he still owes me my camp check. He never paid him?

You know, we paid him. We paid him. He was joking. I said, you tell Antonio, he owes me an autographed jersey. And I swear to you, probably about six, seven days later, I get a FedEx package. here and I got a San Diego Chargers autograph 85 hanging up in my in my office signed by Antonio Gates.

Okay. So you're one in 17 in league, three in 25, and you're like, oh shit, what did we do? Right? You're at home in Pittsburgh and now you're in Yipsalani, Michigan. How do you go about trying to fix it? You know, we have a great academic. reputation. And eastern Michigan is on the same Washington Boulevard, same road as the University of Michigan. You run the big house at Chrysler Center into the convocation center at eastern on same road, five miles apart.

So your fan base is all Michigan. Even if Michigan's away at Purdue and you're playing Western at home, they're going to stay home and watch Michigan on TV. So it was hard to draw people. The new convocation center was a couple miles away from the middle of campus. When Coach Brown was there, They played at the old place right in middle campus, and he had at Wollwood, and had some great players, that Sweet 16 were on the ad. It was hard to get it going. Mac is a really good league. I kind of take it as, you know, everybody's close to each other,

about two hours apart. Some schools are 30 minutes apart, Bowling Green in Toledo. But you're all trying to state, you're all the same neighborhood trying to date the same girl, you know, so you're all recruiting the same players. And we just never really got over the hump there. It was a hard sell, but we were there, I think, five years. Last night, a blown call. changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are

flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where SportsSlice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athletes themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaders to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context,

and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports Slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to Sports Slice on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok.

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Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, is we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hard Way. Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. What's up, guys?

This is Cliver Taylor the Fourth. And on my podcast, The Cliver Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker walks up to me, he goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Quarterback on office blue with 42.

Hey, rep, my mama want you to wave at her. What? Hey, Ms. Parker. Listen to the Clifford show on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. American Soccer is about to explode. The World Cup is coming. Ramos sending on to Ernie Stewart.

I'm Tab Ramos. I'm Tom Boe. On our podcast, Inside American Soccer, you'll get the real storylines. I'm not worried about Policic. I'm not worried about Balagan. I'm not worried about McKinney. My only concern is what happens in the back. The biggest decisions. If you're going to look at stats and numbers, he has no shot at making this World Cup team. And the truth about the U.S. national. It wouldn't be a huge surprise if our team ends up in the quarterfinals

or potentially a great run into the semifinals. The World Cup is almost here. Experience it all with us. Listen, Inside American Soccer with Tom Bogart and Tabramos on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, wherever you get your podcast. Five years. Doug Gottlie and Dave Pilipovich is joining us. Hard five years.

The best part, you know, I can talk to your dad quite a bit during that time. He had his team. What do you, what do you, what do you remember? Like, because my, I'll tell you from the other end what it was like, okay? So at this time, you know, I'm done playing in college and I'm playing overseas, whatever. And whenever I'm around my dad, you know, he's calling coaches like you. I got a guy, you know, and all of his guys who are available are better than anybody in your program, right? Right.

Right. Which is like, well, why are they still available, Bob? But, you know, like, okay, so like, let's take. Take a Marcus Austin was a good player for you, right? Kid from White Plains? Yep, yep, White Plains, New York, yeah. How do you go about, what do you remember about the recruiting process of a Marcus Austin? Well, I was recruiting Marcus when it was Robert Morris.

He was a White Plains. Spencer, Spencer, gosh, his high school coach was a part-time scout with Utah Jazz and close with Jeff Bangundi. Metam at a clinic. Troy, I mean, White Plains, New York. And so Marcus was 6'5, just last. long arms just built, looked like a basketball player, shoot the ball extremely well, and sold him on the fact that come to Eastern, he's accrued by some of the other Mac, the Sienna, the Iona,

that type. But get him out of New York, come to Eastern, play in that facility. And back then, you had some pros, you know, the Bonzie Wells, who came out of the Mac, you had a, which is the name from OU, whose son's playing now in the NBA, a blank right now, but you had some really good players coming out of a Mac who went on to playing the NBA. So we sold him on that. He came. He had a good visit there. The facility was really good. We had a practice gym at the time, which not a lot of people had.

So it looked good, and we sold them to come. Brandon Hunter, by the way. Are you talking about Brandon Hunter from OU? Brandon Hunter, yeah. Yep, yep, yeah. And so the Mac, you know, the Mac had some great coaches back in the day. You had, you had Tim Buckley, who was at, ball stage who had that run in Hawaii,

who beat what Kansas and Duke consecutive days or so, and then you've had docket at Bowling Green, you had Jay Smith at Central, you had Larry Hunter and Charlie Coles of Miami and OU, Dan Hipshur, who did a great job at Akron. I mean, there were some really good coaches in that way. Old school coaches. Yeah, old school coaches is right, right?

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is coming out the front door strong with a double-armed kid carry. Looks like dad has the bag's daughter is bringing up the rear. Oh, but the diaper bag wasn't closed. Diapers and toys are everywhere. Ooh, but Mom has just nailed the perfect car seat buckle for the toddler. And now the eldest daughter, who looks to be about nine or ten, has secured herself in the booster seat. Dad zips the bag closed and they're off.

Ah, but looks like Mom doesn't realize her coffee cup is still on the roof of the car, and there it goes! Oh, that's a shame. That mug was a fan favorite. Don't sweat the small stuff. Just nail the big stuff. Like making sure your kids are buckled correctly in the right seat for their age and size. Learn more at nhtsa.gov

slash the right seat. Visit nhtsa.gov. Slash the right seat. Brought to you by Nitsa and the Ad Council. So again, like this is the what are the, because you guys did get better, you know? Like you didn't get better. We got better. Yeah. I mean, you went from

terrible to solid and then obviously the last last year when you're in the fifth year of a five-year run and you're struggling in a really good league like are you already looking for the next job like what is it and and you also my brother's cut has been in kind of this you hadn't been a head coach yet so it's not like you can hey i got head coaching experience what are the conversations like between you and your wife yeah and At that time, you know, that last year, we started out, I believe, 10 and 3. We had a post player out of Chicago by the name of John Boler, who really became a good player at Eastern Michigan. Yeah, 6-8, 6-8 Jr., average 13 and 6 by the end of the year.

Would he get hurt? Is that what happened? Yeah, herniated his disc in his back, but he was done, and then we went downhill after that, because he was the heart and soul of us, and really tough. He's assistant out. Wisconsin Milwaukee, the University of Milwaukee. He's an assistant there now. But it was really good player for us.

recruited him, going back, I recruited him and got him basically to almost commit on September 10th. The next day I drove to Monty, Indiana, the recruited kid, and woke up in a marriott there and was on the treadmill, and the TVs on, and I was when the towers were hit. I never forget that I was at Boulder's house the night before, and then we brought him on a campus a few weeks later. They drove over, and he committed.

But you always ask where you are, you know, the 10th or 11th, especially on 11th. I was in Chicago at Bowler on a 10th and 11th and Moncee recruiting, when our world changed. But yeah, so we had a conversation my wife, and I always wanted to be a Division III head coach. There's a ton of Vision III schools in Pennsylvania and Ohio. I thought it would be a great thing to be a coach

and raise your family and be home and not the recruiting that's crazy at Division I level. And I applied for some Division III jobs, and a lot of times get through the interviews, and the answer was we didn't want a Division I assistant. We wanted somebody came up, and I said, well, I played Division III. I started Division II, but no, you're Division I assistant,

and you'll leave right away. And I was upset by that because I didn't get some opportunities. So then you're wondering, what's next? You know, where do you go next? And developing a relationship with the Michigan staff because we were right there down the road. We played them. And then when things didn't keep us at Eastern, I was able to just move down the road and take part in Tommy Amherstaffer staff of Michigan. So it's interesting because, you know, Jim was somebody that you had known for a long time, right?

I mean, going back to the Pittsburgh days, you'd work. work with him at Robert Morris, you work with him at Eastern. So that's like nine years working with the same guy. So you guys are like, you know, fingers in a hand or I don't even know, whatever expression you want to. Tommy, you had, you know, obviously sharing the same state, obviously, and that people know that you know ball and you can recruit, but he's a Duke guy. You know, they're different. You show up at Michigan. First, how did he offer you the job? How did that go down? well you know he had an opening it was a operations guy assistant to the head coach type operations uh administrative role the the first year i was there and uh he had an opening somebody moved on

and through a mutual friend and getting to know him and um he calls and says hey let's get together and talk and as you know tom he's really laid back at casual and Tommy said hey just you know don't dress up just come over let's get together four o'clock Tuesday afternoon and you know i show up in a blue suit with an amazing blue tie, right? And, you know, he said, well, I really appreciate that. That's what you do. And we talked for a couple hours, just kind of get it off. And next day I'm up and at the house on the treadmill,

and he called the phone number comes in. I know it's him and I get off for quick. And he goes, hey, you're ready to be at Wolverine? And I see, yes, I am. So it was awesome. You know, and then got a chance to go, instead of turning out the driveway right to go to eastern, I turned left to go to Ann Arbor, and it was great.

So you didn't move? No, didn't move. because we lived right in between Ann Arbor. And like you said, they're five miles apart. We were right in the middle. So instead of going two and a half miles one way, I went two and a half miles the other way. So, and I guess you're making more money?

Yes, yes, yes, making a little bit more money. Right. The greatest deal ever, ever. You go from, you go from, and I know that at the time, and I've had long discussions with Tommy about it, is at the time they were resource depleted, right? people don't understand what Michigan, you know, Michigan was all reputation. Yep.

And, you know, on the other hand, you know, it's still, there's still huge expectations, but you go from no resources, you know, really competitive league with a name that doesn't resonate to Michigan and Tommy Amherker. So your first year was, your first year was, was which season? It was, gosh, I want to say, 0405? Yeah. Okay. So 0405, you do have some good players, right?

You have Chris Hunter, you have Courtney Sims, you have Dion Harris, okay? But it's still, remember, they're still rebuilding from NCAA probation. So, but again, you've worked with one guy for nine years. I'm fascinated by this. Yeah. What was different about Tommy Amherker, his style, his coaching? He is, but a better person. person. He's unbelievable. Unbelievable guy. Yes.

Because you could have a custodian walk in and he's in the biggest meeting or film session, whatever, and a custodian will walk in and he'll say hello to him, you know, or he'll thank him for taking the trash out. He's unbelievable in that regard. Thanks everybody. We appreciate everybody. His preparation was really good. His relationship with a player. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending. Opinions are flying. And nobody's telling you, exactly what happened. That's where SportsSlice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise.

Breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports Slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to Sports Slice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

And for more, follow Timbo Slic Life 12 and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking. Trip Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough.

Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth. Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person.

Join me, Kear Gaines, as we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hardway. Open your free, our Heart Radio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. What's up, guys? This is Clivert Taylor the 4th. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show,

I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff, like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker walks up to me, he goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Time out of my quarterback on office, blue 42. Hey, ref, my mama want you to wave at her. What?

Hey, Ms. Parker. Listen to the Clifford show on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. American soccer is about to explode. The World Cup is coming. Ramon sending on to Ernie Stewart for chip. I'm Todd Ramos. I'm Tom Boe. On our podcast, Inside American Soccer, you'll get the real storylines.

I'm not worried about Policic. I'm not worried about Balagan. I'm not worried about McKinney. My only concern is what happens in the back. The biggest decisions. If you're going to look at stats and numbers, he has no shot at making this World Cup team. And the truth about the U.S. national team.

It wouldn't be a huge. surprise if our team ends up in the quarterfinals or potentially a great run into the semifinals. The World Cup is almost here. Experience it all with us. Listen, inside American soccer with Tom Bogan and Tab Ramos and the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, wherever you get your podcast. It was above and beyond. I mean, the respect and the discipline, doing it without cussing, throwing things and all that. He was just, he demanded and he got the room attention as soon as he walking. He was really good. I mean, he was, it was amazing. It was amazing how he was. And it was just a joy to be around. I always tell him, I wish it was because

he and I are still close to this day. I wish it was longer. But I learned so much. I mean, there's still, to this day, you know, Jim and I are really still close. And the coaches I've worked with, but Tommy, I always tease him, but whenever I'm making an important decision, I always say, what would TA do? You know, what would TA do? And he goes, come on. I said, I always do. And he was, he was unbelievable about that. You know, we're going, that year we start out six and two in the Big Ten, and we're ranked 16th in the country. Then we have some injuries, and we go two and six on the back end of the Big Ten,

finished eight and eight, and we're the last team out. So we get the number one seed in the NIT, and we end up going to the championship game where we lose to Bernalda-Baltman and South Carolina. But as we're heading to New York for the final four in the NIT, and we're on the charter, getting ready to get on the charter, the families came, our son Kyle at the time, I believe maybe it's been eighth grade, seventh grade

with a big dude guy, and JJ Redick was his guy. And Tommy walks on the plane with a bag, and he throws it at Kyle, and he says here, but don't open it until we land. Kyle's nervous. When he opens it, it's an autographed JJ Reddick shirt. You know, for the day, he still have. You know, Kyle 27 now walks to the USA basketball.

He still has the JJ Reddick shirt. But Tommy was just so thoughtful of everybody. Make sure everybody was comfortable. Everything was in place. And the bigger, the biggest, the biggest, the game, the better he was in the locker room of pregame. He was really, really good, I thought. What was it like when he was let go?

You know, just the second year, and we weren't as good that year, and we and I think there was a story they wrote in Ann Arbor, Coach Beline, we're beating Ohio State at home. They're number one in the country, and they had that remarkable team with Odin Conley.

And I think we're up six, and we get a dunk at the rim with Courtney Sims, who had a cup of coffee for some team. in the NBA, Sims misses the dunk, and they go in a run, and we lose to Ohio State at home. And you win that game. We're in the NCAA tournament. Everything's fine. You lose that game, and we win the first game in the Big Ten Tourney,

and lose the second one. And we go to the NIT, we win the first game at home. I think we beat Utah State that you're at home. Then we go to Calahassee and play Florida State, and we lose on Thursday. On Thursday, come home on Friday or in the office. Saturday morning. I'm in the shower early. I never forget it. ready to go to the office. My wife hollers in.

Just coaches on the phone, and that's never good. I get off, he goes, you know, bad news, Dave. You know, AD brought me in this morning, called me, and I just met him, and he let me go. He goes, can he come in? I said, yeah, I'm on my way. You know, I felt so bad for him because he didn't deserve it. He said, our locker room leaked. We have to practice in a rec center. Christa was terrible. Our offices were a mile away. It was just bad. It wasn't worth it now.

Well, no, I mean, that's the thing is you didn't get to, and I, you know, and in talking, and like, look, I, I would readily admit I was at ESPN at the time. And I was very early in my career at ESPN. And I'll get back to you for a second. That ESPN with you and Tom Brennan, that was the best. You know, it's, it's, I've never, I've never talked about this. And this, it's, it's, it's, I'm glad you brought that up. So what's fascinating about this, and this is where, you know, like I, I don't know, I struggle sometimes with our business. So I felt like Tom Brennan was an absolute prince.

I mean, he's funny. He's affable. He had no ego. Now, he was put in a situation where, which is really hard, where he had coached at one place, I think, for 18 years. Okay. So, and you know this. When, when you're at Vermont for 18 years. It's not like you know all, and you don't know all the players.

You don't know all the, like, not only he's a coach at Vermont, but he's also doing a radio show. So when he wasn't coaching, he was doing his radio show and then he's like the mayor of Burlington, Vermont. So when he got there, you know, like his first couple years, he struggled with like he didn't, he didn't know all the players. And I've been doing it forever, you know, like as a kid and growing up and I had only covered really national stuff. Adoption of teens from foster care is a topic not enough people know about, and we're here to change that. I'm April Dinnwity host of the new podcast, Navigating Adoption, presented by Adopt U.S. Kids. Each episode brings you compelling real-life adoption stories told by the families that live them with commentary from experts. Visit Adoptuskids.org slash podcast or subscribe to navigating adoption presented by Adopt U.S. Kids.

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Find a forest near you and start exploring at discovertheforest.org. Brought to you by the United States. Forest Service and the ad council. At some, like, his whole thing was like, he not only did he sometimes not know about every player, but he didn't give a shit, and it worked. And our problem was like, our bosses at the time, our boss at the time were like, well, Tommy only,

here's, I swear to God this actually happened. I had a boss who came in after a halftime segment. And he said, Doug, you talk for a minute and 42 seconds. Tommy, you talk for 47 seconds. That's not acceptable. And I said, I will not share this gentleman's name because I actually like him. Right. I said, what's your point?

He's like, well, you're dominated the conversation. I said, no, I don't actually see it that way. I said, was it good? He's like, well, that's not the point. I go, no, that actually is. The point of television is, were you entertained? Did you change the channel? It's halftime, right?

If I'm watching a game, it goes to halftime, I got to be really fucking entertained, or I'm going to change the channel and watch a different game because there's a million games on. I was like, were you entertained? He's like, that's not the point. You're missing the point. Tom's deal was, he would say, you know, like Dave Rebson was our host and Rever would come in. And Revere would say, TB would, you know, he's got a big game tonight. It's Duke versus, you know, North Carolina.

What would you tell your team? And Tommy would say, like, I tell him. hell let's go have some fun we'll go have a stake afterwards who gives the shit right like he would literally say that on TV and we'd be laughing and I'd go into some basketball stuff and it worked but it's really amazing on how oftentimes I thought I still believe to this day Tom Brennan should have been should have been the um the Lee Corso of of college basketball and for whatever reason and you know I mean I it it was It just broke, broke my heart because they never told him anything, and then they didn't renew him. And, you know, I mean, in all candor, I had people tell me, well, you know, you made Tom look bad. Like, no, we played off each other. Like, I was the former player dork who pushed the envelope, and he was the old coach who just had a great time. I thought it was real.

I appreciate you saying. I thought it was really good. Oh, I loved it. Yeah, I loved it. Yeah, I loved it. I thought it was great. My wife loved it. Yeah, we used to talk for the whole time.

And I knew Tom a little bit, you know, but I thought it was great. I really did. I was so disappointed when I did. Dave, he's as authentic a person, like as a good dude as you will ever, as you will ever find. And I, listen, and here's just another little quick aside, because I know basketball people listen to this pot. They named the court after him in the old gym. They opened a new arena this year, and his name's not on the court. That's wrong, man.

Like, Vermont's not Vermont without Tom Brennan court. And, you know, like, they're doing a great job there. His name needs to be. So, oh, so I'll, so here's what I'll, full disclosure. I'm on ESPN. I remember Tom got fired and Tommy got fired. And, and what I said was like, look, there is, I don't know, 73 programs at the, you know, Big 12, Big 10, SEC, ACC, and,

and and what league am I forgetting? Big East at the time. And they were one of, you guys were one of like two or three that hadn't made the tournament during his time there. And I said, I think, you know, that's really, unfortunately, why Tom lost his job.

But in his defense, like, unless you were at Michigan and understood, one, what the sanctions did. And two, like, you don't get to see the new or you don't get to see the new practice facility. You don't get to benefit. Like you build all this shit up and then they whack you. And, you know, look, the guy won at Seaton Hall and the guys won at Harvard where no one has ever won before.

And so if. Right. Amazing. Like, amazing. So just the idea that he wasn't going to turn the corner at Michigan. And Beeline did an amazing job because he's a great coach, right? This isn't an anti-Beline rant, but it is fascinating on how. You get that new arena and they have expected, like, let the guy at least coach in the new building before you whack him.

You're exactly right. I mean, what he's done at Harvard and brought the, he's raised the whole level to play in the Ivy League because of that. The whole league has changed. The whole league has changed because of, and I called their first, their first win ever in the NCAA term. I was like amazing. And you have, you wouldn't, I mean, obviously, like, hi? Yeah. Yeah.

I was I was it was a Laurent Revard he played Laurent Levant LeVard at the four and and Steve Alford would play his two bigs and their the four men couldn't go out couldn't go out and cover Revard

and Revard hit like four threes and New Mexico got super super tight and they were a really good club and uh and what I mean it wasn't just a win it was a coaching win I felt like he coached his way to a win by finding one mismatch on the floor that he was able to exploit. Yep.

You know, and that New Mexico team was really good. They were 12th in a country. Last Mount West Conference game of the year, we played them here at home, down 16 early, and beat them by two. And we played a kid out of Roswell, New Mexico, came off the bencherst, Mark Olsenski, who was undersized four or five, and we did that. He made five threes against them. that helped us get back in the game and then eventually beat them. And that was their last regular season game. Then they went on to win the Mount West Tormant,

and then, you know, Harvard beat them in the NCAAs with a great win. How'd you get to Air Force? How'd that happen? Well, so we get released. They go through the process of what they're doing. They hire Coach B-Line, and he comes in, and I was a member of the staff. He offered me a contract to stay, and we're going to go month for month.

and because a couple of his assistance from Western Union didn't come yet. They were involved in head coaching jobs. And so that's a coach, I really appreciate it. You know, married two children. I need a job. I said, but I'll do respect. I'm going to call Coach Amaker because my loyalty is to him and see if it's okay with him. And he goes, I respect that.

I really do. So I called Coach Amaker. He goes, yeah, Dave, you got to do that. If you can stay on, if I can help you, whatever, you need to do that. So I stayed on with Coach B-Line. We went through some recruiting, did some workouts. I think the thing in Press, Coach Belize, he called me on Easter morning. He was back in West Virginia.

He's a big Catholic churchgoer every day. And he called me right before he's going to church. I think it's six in the morning. And my phone's always on. He calls, I pick up. And he was, what are you picking up for him? I wanted to leave you a message at Easter. And he wanted to run something by me, and I answered it.

And he came back. He was, I appreciate you. You know, picking up. And I said, well, coach him, you've got to be on. You got to be on. But we worked together. He was great. He was great.

And then I didn't feel like a part of it. You know, when people are coming by the office now and, hey, you're going to turn this thing around. You're going to do this. You're going to do that. You know, the players will say something different too, right, and all that. You kind of feel like that step job, right? And if I could have stayed, you know, if I didn't have anything else, I probably would have stayed. But then this job.

That's a hard deal. So my brother, this is kind of interesting, about the same time. Yeah. My brother was in San Diego State for eight years. And so, and I should probably have him on to, I had to tell this story, but he's going to, maybe, I don't know, he'll be pissed. So he had developed a relationship with Ben Braun, you know, on recruiting trail, and Ben had a relationship with my dad. And so he loved San Diego and San Diego State, and he loved working for Steve Fisher. But people have to remember at the time, Brian Dutcher was Steve Fisher's. right hand man. So he was, that was whenever coach Fisher decided to retire. And Mark Fisher was

on the staff. This is before Mark, uh, it was diagnosed with ALS. And so Greg was like, you know, look, and no one at that point had the mountain west hadn't blown up to the point where guys were getting head coaching jobs. You had to get to the pack 10. And he had a relationship. He met his wife when he was at Sack State and she lived in San Francisco. So they always loved Northern California. So Ben Brown. Last night, A blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened.

That's where SportsSlice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athletes themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer.

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I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff like being an internet famous referee We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker walks up to me, he goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Time out. Quarterback on office blue 42.

Hey, rep, my mama want you to wave at her. What? Where's she at? Hey, Miss Parker. Listen to the Clifford show on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. What's up, fam, it's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano and our podcast Point Game is about defying the odds.

Like LeBron heading into the playoffs without Luca and Austin Reed. And finding ways to win no matter what. He's the smartest player to ever play the game. His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before. And he knows without Luca and Austin Reeves, I got to manipulate the game. We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the playoffs. I think Joker's going to be exhausted this series because when they don't have Rudy in the lineup, he has to really guard

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He goes and takes the job and then seven months in. They finish in ninth place and, you know, lose on like a crazy tip-in at UCLA. And they finish in ninth place with two pros at Cal and the league gets like seven teams in or something. Anyway, Braun gets fired and he ended up staying with Mike Montgomery being the only guy. and, you know, he, he ran the benefit of Monty didn't come from another program, so he didn't have a list of assistance. And Monty hadn't been recruiting for four years, you know, so Greg was a recruiting coordinator.

But, but, and then, you know, when Monty retired, Conzo kept him for a couple of months. So I, I know the feeling of what you're saying, where you're, you're kind of hanging around and you're, you're part of it, but you're not part of it. And especially when you get fired that all the, all, everybody who used to be your friend is now coming in saying, ah, you'll be better than the last guy. You're like,

wait, I was here when the last guy was there. I mean, we weren't bad. Like, say it's a, okay, so how did the Air Force thing take place?

Well, then Jeff was down the Air Force goes to Colorado. They go through a long time of hiring, not hiring, and then they end up hiring Jeff Reynolds at the time,

who was an assistant here out of his delict, but went to Colorado with him. And then they brought him back. I've known Jeff, you know, from back in camp days when he was an assistant

at Randolph-Make. back in the 90s. I had some mutual friends and knew him. We stayed in touch always through the years. You know, you talked to coaches, and he reached out and said he had an opening. He's looking at some guys. Would I be interested? I said, yes.

Another couple days. He said, you know, he's still interested, yes. Another couple days. We interviewed on the phone. He offered me a job on the phone. I took it. You know, we never lived, you know, this far west. I was out here in 91 for the final four when UNLB beat Duke.

and that was the only time I've been in Denver, this area, and came out, and then I said, here, here we go. So we moved on out, and that's what we've been since. Okay, so you show up, but the Air Force Academy is a different place. I mean, obviously, Colorado Springs is, is amazing, is beautiful. And the whole academy lifestyle is very different. And what people, I think, forget about Buzz is, you know, it was, it was Joe, Scott who got it going, right? And I remember when Joe Scott first kind of got it going at Air Force before they really won,

before you guys won, my brother is like, hey, you know who's going to be good in a couple years is the Air Force because he's like, look, they actually have good players. And the Princeton stuff works. They're playing in altitude. And, you know, everybody else has, everybody else in this league is taking, you know, a lot of chances with transfers. And, like, they just have good, hardworking kids. And I'm telling he's, like, I bet they make the NCAA tournament a couple years.

And this was, like, very, very early on. And I was covering the league at the time. And then Mooney got the job, and it kind of took off. You didn't get there until kind of the tail end of it, right? And part of it was Buzz, as good a coach as Buzz was, a very good coach. he wasn't really a Princeton guy, so he kind of ran some of it but didn't have the same passion for it.

And he didn't have a real passion for recruiting. So I felt like he didn't leave you with the cupboard full. Not that Air Force is an easy place to recruit to anyway. But then there's the academy. So you show up, what's the first day of work like at the Air Force Academy for a guy who's been small schools, big schools, all in the Midwest? You know, you come through the gate.

First of all, you've got to show credentials to get through the gate. So they're checking. They, you know, pop the trunk and make sure you don't have anything because you don't have a government card yet because you're not through the process. So you're as a visitor. And they, you know, I'm scared of me. Goodness gracious, what they're going to do? Then you drive up to the academy. And it's, you know, you see students walking around in uniforms.

They're marching, their business-oriented because they're going from one class to next and seven minutes. Their heads are down. The freshmen can't look at some people or salute, you know, have to salute everybody. They can't walk on the middle of the walkways. You have to walk on the rubble strips on the side. They can't carry their backpack on their back. They've got to hold it and run. They said, what are we doing?

What am I get myself into? And then we have a first team meeting. And they're great guys. They're great guys. They came off that Final Four run in the NIT, but they were all graduate. Jake Berkey led that group. They're all seniors are all leaving. So it's the younger guys coming up.

And then, okay, work out some of them. When are we going morning, late? No, no, we can't get them until 2.30, and we got them until 4.30 unless it's a military day. And then your schedule, I mean, wow. And then your list of recruits and you're calling up kids, and they have three Division III offers in you. And then they decide not to play basketball, but they still won't come to the academy because they don't want to do the military. Oh, my gosh. You're just getting nose and nose and nose.

And at that time your dad pulled me on a kid, six-seven kid out of California, and I really like him going to UW Milwaukee and had a good truce. career. I can't think of his name right now. And because he called, and we got touch with him, and he was a tough kid. He could shoot the ball, six, seven rebound, and he came to visit, and there's just no way he wanted to do this. And he has a

guano Milwaukee and had a pretty good career there. I can't get a, again, I can't remember his name, but, you know, we're just missing out on guys. And then the guys were taken, we're beating, you know, we're beating, uh, goodness gracious, Texas Tyler, or we're beating Cal, uh, Cal, uh,

Cal San Diego and we'll beat D-2s and everybody else in the league is getting, you know, who they're getting. And I said, oh, my gosh, this thing's not going to be, you know, because when you line up and play, we're not going to have the guys that they have. So it's a difference. Remind me, so you're there for four years. And then did Jeff get fired mid-year or did he resign mid-year? What happened? Yeah, the administration came in.

We were struggling, winning some games and, you know, maybe coaching tactics or whatever may be, someone likes, someone doesn't like. and caught me off guard. I come in one day, and he's in a meeting in his office across the hall for me, and the AD and assistant AD comes out, and he says, you got a minute, and I come in, he goes, I just got fired. I said, what? What?

And then selfish, you know, I'm thinking, oh, my gosh, you know, my son's ready to go to college. I got to pay for college. My daughter, you know, I'm thinking, what am I going to do? You know, here I am all the way out here. Not a lot of contacts out this way, and I'm thinking, and he said, they're going to call you upstairs of 15 minutes, and then the interim head coach and go do it and hopefully maybe they'll keep you and he goes, I apologize, but whatever reason they're going a different direction.

I said, oh, my gosh. And so it happened back then we had the Mount West Network, you know, and so there was things on TV that day. They interviewed our players, some of our players. We're a little bit fractured there at the time. Guys going different ways. And I said, oh, my gosh. So here we go. And we didn't even practice that day.

He said, just clear your heads. And then our first game was against Boise State that Saturday. That was our by-week. We just got beat at Colorado State the game prior to, and Jeff was ejected late in the game for a second technical. And I don't think that anything to do with it, but it didn't show well on TV. And actually, my son was a freshman at time.

He was a manager for Tim Miles at Colorado State, so he's in the locker on videotape in the game. They're up 20. Tim Miles sends another manager in to go get Kyle out because I coached the last, what, 11 minutes of the game, so he can be on the floor. and we lose. We're off Sunday.

They made that decision on Monday. And then we played Boisey that Saturday. They got beat. We got to Wyoming the next Wednesday. And Coach Hyatt's the best there is. And we go up there and we're down 11. I'm not going to start the game. I said to myself,

we'll be the first team that called basketball never scored a basket. So this is your first game as head coach? Second game. We lose a Boise's the first game. Okay. So again, you're doing that thing, okay? Yeah. You head coached for 20 years at this point?

Yeah. Yeah, 20. Okay. So it's your first game as interim head coach, and you're taking on Boise State, good program, well coached. Okay. Yeah. And so what do you remember?

Like, what is that like to have you waited your whole life and you thought, I'll be a D3 head coach. Now you're head force at Air Force Academy in the middle of the year. What do you remember about that first game? about that, like, that is my, the expression of the hours, there's no bigger move in the country than the 18 inches from assistant coach to head coach. What was that like? You know, you're worried about everything.

Warm-up's going to be okay, you know, substitutions, what do I do here, timeouts, what do I do, everything, your head's spinning. A game was on CBS Sports, Coach Lappas had the game, and he walked in the office before the game, and said, hey, how you doing? And he talked for about five, ten minutes. I really respected that. He said,

hey, just do what you do, be who you are. He can't be anybody else and enjoy it. And he said that he goes, there's only 300 some of these out there right now. And you've got one of them. He said, enjoy it. And so we go out there. We get off the good start. We got the lead early 17, 12.

I remember, and then they take the lead at halftime. The second half, we were exhausted. Just everything that went on. They were better than us, first and foremost. But then everything that week that transpired our guys were gassed. And so we end up losing that game. And here we go. Now we got a reset, recharge.

You're outside. Okay, wait. So you lose the, wait, you wait, you wait your whole professional career for this opportunity, you know? Do you remember, like, what your wife said? Like, are you thinking, because here's, I'll give you my quick personal. So, like, I coached A.U basketball and I've, you know, I've, I've coached in different tournaments. So I coached the Maccabi games team in, in Israel. Yep.

And we do workout, the summer before we do workouts and tryouts. And I feel like, all right, like, it just felt. normal running a practice and I'd see my dad do it and I'd seen a million practices I felt like I felt like my offensive philosophy was sound defensively I was a little you know how you guard different actions I was a little I had more philosophy than seeing a play out I'll never forget we we practiced for a couple days in in in in fairfield university then we fly at a Tel Aviv we practice for a couple days and then we scrimmaged the under 20 national team and we have some guys a little bit older.

We have one 26 year old kid, 122, but the rest of, you know, it's age appropriate. But, you know, I mean, this is a national team. They play together forever. So we go out there and I start two big guys because I'm an idiot. And we're down 18 to start the game.

And I remember sitting there going, and I had interviewed for the Oklahoma State job before that summer. Before, you know, before the, and, you know, I had full confidence that I could hire the people that knew what I didn't know, but I, you know, it's basketball. You know what you're doing. And I remember thinking to myself, holy shit, I don't know what the hell I'm doing here, right? And I made some adjustments.

So we got competitive and whenever. And I felt like by the time I walked out the door that day, I didn't have full confidence that I would win the tournament. But I was like, maybe I don't know as little as I thought when we're down 18 to 2. But the 18 to 2 was alarming. I'm wondering when you walked out a clune that day and, and you lost your first game, was there any, holy shit, maybe I can't do this or I can't fix this thing?

Yeah, you have that doubt because of some things to happen in the game like you're saying, and maybe a lineup blunder you have or a defense assignment you don't do, and you're thinking, I'm thinking myself, it's a lot harder than you think.

You know, sometimes you sit on that other seat and you have all the answers. Oh, yeah, I mean, hey, I'm broadcasting a game. I know everything everybody's supposed to do. And I said, not only did I not have the answers, I didn't even know the questions. And I said to myself, I'd love to just win one division one game, one game. That would be awesome. You know, here's a kid. He grew up in an apartment above a bar and didn't have a lot.

And now I'm coaching at the Air Force Academy, and I never can get in here because I'm not smart enough. And if we can win one game, that would be awesome, you know. And so you keep – and we had a great staff that was together, and you don't want to change a lot, but yet there's some things you may need to tweak, right? and you only have a little bit of time to change it. So then we lose that game, and they said we prepare them. We go up to Laramie to play Wyoming, and they had a pretty good team. We go up there and we're down 11-knuff and the start. So now you're really thinking, goodness gracious, this is bad,

and it's on the mountain network, and people are watching it. You say, you may not score, we're bad, we may not win a game, we're going to lose these guys. So you call time out, and I really said this to the guys, and they come, and they're looking at you and wondering, they want the answer. I said, guys, we're fine, we're fine, just relax. I said, we got it right where we want them. So we're down 11 now. They're going to be overconfident.

They're going to start jacking some shots. We're going to get right back in this thing. You know, and I'm wondering, oh, my gosh. And we do. We end up getting back into it, and we end up winning the game. We end up in the game up there on the road, and we've got one on the road, and we win that game. In Wyoming, like, in Y, Laramie, 7,000 plus feet and against Larry Shide, who everybody knows can coach his butt off, like, okay, so what's that?

What's that, what's that? What's that, would bus ride back to Denver, or do you guys fly right out of Laramie? What's that like? I remember walking down to shake his hand after the game, and the first thing I said to him, I'm sorry. And he goes, we're just sorry for. Great job. I'm happy for you.

You know, keep doing what you doing. He's just the best. He's the best of this. And we could have walked home. You know, we were so excited. We thought we had a national championship. I mean, we were, you know, we beat Wyoming and have it once, you know, six weeks before that, and it was just great for the kids for them to rejoice and take part of that.

So now we get. at home, you know, three in the morning, and who do we play on Saturday? But San Diego State, and I'm looking at the balls on my wall here, and I think at that time they were 21st in the country. And I remember, and they were really good. They were really good with the Franklins and Tapley. I mean, they were good. And I remember before the game, about an hour and a half before the game,

I'm coming out of the coach's locker, and just changing, and they're coming in, and Coach Fisher grabs me. And he's another, the best, the best. and he says, hey, Dave, I'm sorry of everything to happen with Jeff. Are you okay? He said, if there's anything I could ever do to help you, let me know. He goes, you know, I was in your position at one point. Yeah, Coach, but you want six straight one, that's James, you know,

is there ever coach of Michigan, you know, laughing with him. And he goes, no, there's anything I could ever do, you know, let me know. And he goes, good luck to you and stay in touch. And I thought that meant a lot coming from him. And we went out there and Tapley was hurt that game. His wrist was hurting. He wasn't real good. We just hung around, chucked up some shots, and we ended up upsetting them.

You know, and they were, you know, ranked 21st of the highest upset of the ranked team member in the history of Air Force. So we're two and one now. Kids rush the crowd. And the crowd, we have a decent crowd that game. They jump on the floor. They rush the floor and our kids felt happy. We just beat a ranked team and we're two and one now, you know, in my three games. So, you know, it's crazy.

It's crazy. And we play the next game at home. against BCU, and we're up three late. Miss a scoring opportunity, they come down, score, go, we go up one, we come down, don't score our last possession, they hit a shot the buzzer beat us. We could actually win up 3-1, went up to be 3-1, we were 2 and 2,

and then we didn't win another game the rest of the year. We lose the Mont West games, and we lose first round, the Mount West tournament. But prior to going to the Mount West tournament, the administration came down and awarded me with a three-year contract to stay. And so that was big right there. what is that feeling like? You know, now, first thing, okay, we're going to be able to pay for college. My son is the CSU, and so we'll get him through school, and then our daughter's going to be next.

So we've got three years to make this thing right. And just Coach Lapis's words in my mind, at that time, there was 351, or 345, I think. You go, there's 345 of these out there. And if it's open tomorrow, you have 2,000 applicants. You know, exaggerate. But he goes, you've got one of the Division I head coaching jobs. try to enjoy it, try to enjoy it. And so that, that was a...

By the way, another prince of a guy. Just another, another, like, I've worked with him. And I would also say kind of the... We had the same thing. When I was at CBS, we were doing games together. And we would, like, kind of... We would verbally kind of spar, like, back and forth, coach and player. And we loved it.

If you would. And I had a... I had a boss who, at... You know, a guy who was, like, he came to a game in Vegas. He's like, oh, are you guys okay? Like, what are you talking about? It's like, well, you guys were kind of going back and forth. I was like, that's how basketball people are, right?

A coach and a player. Like, it was beautiful. Yeah. And it wasn't, it wasn't his call. It was, there was one guy back in New York, I'll leave his name out of it, who wasn't comfortable with, like, he just wanted everybody to wrap their arms around each other to hug each other during the game. Like, all right, but it was real.

Anyway, I think Lappus is an absolute prince of a guy. And, you know, he, you know, he's, and, and, you know, and, and, and, and, you know, and, and, and, And that's, it's a great way of looking at it, right? It's a, Billis has told me the same thing about doing games. You know, everybody gets pissed when they get their games. And you're like, hey, man, you're getting paid to call it basketball games. Like a little perspective. You're like, yeah, you know, you're, you're right, Jay.

You're right. Yeah. Okay, so you get it. But now, okay, now you have the job that you wanted, but it's a really, really hard job. And it's been hard to get it back to that, to, that place where it was, you know, going back 10 years ago. No question. What's the biggest, the biggest challenge, obviously, is getting players.

Like, do you simply have your staff look for people that are military families? Like, what's the process like of finding a player when you're at Air Force? Well, high academics, it's an Ivy League standards. And then, you know, we lose a lot of kids because of medical reasons. You can't be on any type of medication. And a lot of kids are on ADD medication. And that's a non-go. here. So we lost a really good minority player a couple years ago, 6-7. It was really skilled.

It was at asthma. We lost an ADD. We had lost maybe a minor vision or hearing ailment that was fine anywhere else or whatever maybe. So that's hard. The academics are hard. The part about the medical is hard. And then the commitment, you know, five years, mommy, you know, sometimes I think little Joey's going to go off to war. That's not the case. You know, there are some deployment opportunities in your career field, but there's a lot that aren't. So it's really hard fighting all that. And then what's changed, as you know, in college basketball, the last game now is it transfers.

You know, back in the day where teams would get young again, they're not getting young anymore. They're staying old because of the transfers. And that has been really, you know, the Mount West has really benefited from that. You know, Musselman was in Nevada. The Mexico, what they're doing, transfers, and the state even their back court this year. Vegas has done over the year, everyone.

You know, Boise is now loading up. when you think you can get your guys to juniors and seniors, and now you've got a chance, well, guess what? Those other teams are going to stay juniors and seniors too now. So that's been probably our hardest obstacle. You know, you have this kid, Lavelle Scottie, who comes from a really tough background,

really tough background in Fort Worth, and now he's like a senior. You talked about your initial, what you wanted to do was be a Division III coach and be a part of kind of the change from boy to man, and you've been able to do that with Lavelle, haven't you? Yep, yep, yep. And he's one of his coach.

How has he changed? What has that been like to be his coach and watch him go through this process for the last four years? You know, Levelle's a background where he's kind of the breadwinner of the family. It's taken care of his siblings and his mom and dad over the years while he's been here because they do receive a stipend here.

And it's been some rough times with his mom and dad's gone through back there and he's had to go home and take care of them and make sure they're getting what they need. And when he came here, he just didn't sit with some of the other guys who were at the academy, non-athletes too, just because of their background. You know, some of them are coming from parents or senators, a congressman, or doctors, and, you know, they went to the academy, and it's that three-car garage kid. And, you know, Levelle and I just said, if there's one, I'm going to bet on it's not going to make, it's going to be him.

But he would determine to make it, and he's extremely bright. and made it through the prep school and then came here at the academy. And, you know, like even this year, he didn't go home for Christmas. You know, he didn't go home for Christmas. He was the only player to stay here. And just because it was better for him to be here. And, you know, we lose Saturday night, as you know, down in New Mexico. And then, you know what happened Saturday night to one of their players?

And Sunday I'm sitting in my office here watching film, and he comes by to get some shooting in. And I said, hey, do you hear about, you know, the player in New Mexico? I said, no, I didn't. And I said, I got to go out of it. I just appreciate you and your teammates of how you guys are and how you represent. And he goes, well, coach, we can't do those things here. And I said, not only you can't do them, but you wouldn't do them. He goes, no, I want to.

Because that's not who I am. And you know, you respect that. And that's the kind of kids you have here. They make better choices. They're going to make a bad choice. Don't give you all. You know, we've got kids there to make some choices that right because they're still kids. But, you know, I appreciate that.

When he's come through, when he graduates here, I mean, that's a story that's unbelievable then he'll graduate and be an officer in the Air Force from what he came from or what he had to go through all he was here. And not really, it's been a pretty good player. It's been a really good player. I got two more for you. First is this.

If there's an assistant coach who is struggling right now, you've been, you've coached some bad team, been assistant on bad teams, right? And it feels like, man, maybe I'm, maybe I should go into medical sales, you know? Maybe I should take a high school job or whatever.

what would you say to them to get them kind of mid-year when things are bad? What would you say to them from your perspective to keep them going? You got at this for a reason, and the reason was to help kids and be a part of a team because that's always what you've done. Continue to work and build that team. Don't look for that next job or think about we're not going to get this done. Keep making that the best job you have, keep making and working for that head, coach who gave you an opportunity to be the best head coach.

He can be in the best program he can be. And keep doing what you've done all your life because you've always tried to make the team or be in the starting five. Do whatever because you've grown up in this sport. Keep doing the right things and good things will happen. All right. Last thing. You do have a senior, you have a couple of really good seniors.

And you guys have had some huge wins. in order to, in order to, what has to happen for your team to accomplish your potential this year? We got to stay healthy first and foremost. And then we've got to shoot the basketball at a higher rate than we did. You know, we took a questionable shots and early shots and bad shots on Saturday,

8 of 28 for 3. We've got to be better from the 3. And then we can't turn the ball over at the rate we did in that game, especially, you know, only on the 5th and the second half, but we turned 4 over. We're really crucial. So we've got to shoot it and take better shots. It's the right we can't because we're on the better shooting teams

and protect the ball a little bit better because we can't give open run. We have three bad plays where they got dunks on the other end. Six points we lose by six. There's no defense, as you know, for that. That's a, you know, if they take six. So we got a little bit better at that. And because this group really gets along well. We've got, you know, 13 more.

You know, we can pick a few here and there than maybe we'll also find here at the end of the year. Well, listen, it's always great to catch up. I had no idea you grew up above a bar, but it does give you that perspective of even when you lose a couple in a row, if you consider where you've been and where you've gotten to and this run that you've had at Air Force and the lives that the Academy and your program have been able to change, it's really remarkable thing. Thanks so much for telling me your story and for joining me on the podcast. Well, I appreciate and I appreciate all you do for our game.

Keep doing great things. sure to catch the live edition of the Doug Gottlieb show weekdays at 3 p.m. Eastern, noon Pacific. Hey, my thanks to Dave Pilipovich, head coach of Air Force for, that was a fun discussion. Remember, you can download and listen to any of these long form interviews, plus some other thoughts on hoop with All Ball. Subscribe, Rate. What is it? Download, subscribe, and rate.

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