The Herd with Colin Cowherd - All Ball - KD Can't Let Go; Guest: Gonzaga Great Adam Morrison on Misconceptions, NBA Regrets, Playing with Kobe

Episode Date: September 12, 2019

This week, Gottlieb looks at Kevin Durant's most recent negative comments about the Warriors and the NBA make him even less likable, and talks with former Naismith Player of the Year Adam Morrison about his legendary Gonzaga career, college stardom, NBA regrets, winning titles without playing minutes for the Lakers, and incredible stories about Mark Few, Larry Brown, Kobe Bryant, and Andrew Bynum. Make sure you download, rate and subscribe here to get the latest All Ball Podcasts! Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo, and every episode, we're cutting through the noise,

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Hey, what up, welcome in. I'm Doug Gaudlebe, and you are listening to the All Ball Podcast, part of the Heard Podcast Network. You can check out the Doug Gottlieb Show daily from 3 to 6, Eastern Time, 123 Pacific, Sirius XM 217 or 203. You can download the pod. You listen to it on the IHeartRadio app

on Foxport,3.3.com. or in your Fox Sports Radio affiliate. Before we get to our guest this week, who is Adam Morrison, former national player of the year, and I'm going to just warn you, we just talked for however long this podcast is, we just talked.

So there are some curse words if you have children in the car. It's not safe for work. I mean, it's not bad, but it's not the language that, you know, you're like pop in with your kid. Just know that this is how dudes talk, and it might not be cool with you.

So I just want to make sure you give you a little heads up. Anyway, and wait to hear the stories. Some Kobe stories, some Powell stories, some what else was there? Phil Jackson, Larry Brown, Mark Few, great stories. Amazing stuff. Amazing. Okay, so let me just get to this Kevin Durant thing real quick.

Like, I get that Kevin Durant wants to paint the picture of where he actually is in his life and how he really liked Oklahoma City and wanted to go back but couldn't believe how bitter all those people were and really like Golden State and enjoyed winning championship but could never fit in there. But if you read all of these quotes, there's no like give back. There's no there's no self-deprecation there. Right? Just like all you hear is, hey, I was different from those guys and, you know, I didn't need to buy into the their culture because I'm not like a kid. I'm an adult. There's just so much pride

there to not just admit, hey, I might not have fit in there. I probably could have done some things. It could have worked out differently. It didn't. But you know, some of it's me and some of it's them. No, no, no. If you read Kevin Durant's quotes, they're all somebody else. And we all know as adults, that's

not really the way it works. Any failed relationship I have, friendship-wise or otherwise, some because the other person, but there was a good portion if that was because of me. Any work relationship that ended, right?

Some because of other people, it's some because of me. That's really growing up. And I think what happens is he thinks he's growing up by saying who he really is and maybe it is. But man, Kevin Durant sounds miserable. Just does not sound like a dude that has a good time. And I understand that he doesn't love so many elements of what makes an NBA player,

but it doesn't stop him from using those elements. Right? There's a contradiction there. I don't like social media. Why are you on social media all the time? I don't like the negativity of it. Then get off of it. No one forces you to it.

It does not change his bottom line at all. He's a multi, multi, multimillionaire 10 times over and probably you'll end up being a billionaire by the time he's done. He doesn't need social media to help him there. I don't love the negativity of social media either, but I do actually need it for what I do at work. He doesn't. So there's a weird constriction there.

Hey, I've spent the last three years telling you, I think Kevin Rant's the best player in the NBA. But I'm going to have to spend the next three years saying, like, God, he's just a guy that struggles to fit in with other people. Just is. I'm not really sure the purpose of doing another sit-down interview other than to make yourself feel good and maybe to keep explaining yourself.

But it's a lot like when you ever told a fib and you're explaining it, And the more you explain yourself, the more you expose your fib, that kind of feels like Kevin Wrent. Doesn't mean he's lying, but the more he talks, the more likable he actually is, and I think the reason he's talking is

because he thinks it'll make him more likable. Be sure to catch live editions of the Doug Gottlieb's show weekdays in noon Eastern 3 p.m. Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and the IHeart Radio app. Well, let's welcome into the All-Ball podcast, the Naismith Memorial Player of the Year, also the Wooden Award Player of the Year in College Basketball. He was the third overall pick of the 2003 NBA draft and a hero to so many in the country.

He's Adam Morrison. He joins us in the All Ball podcast. Amel, how are you? Good, Doug. Thanks for having me on. I appreciate it. Okay. Your current location at this very moment is where?

Spokane, Washington, home of the Zags. Are you in the bunker? To clarify this one again, I do not own a bunker, but I am not. In a bunker. I'm in my house. Yeah. So no, I guess. Yeah. Of the urban myths about you, I would say the bunker is probably the most prominent one currently, right? Is there other urban myths about you? I've heard them all. I had some odd interactions with people as far as certain urban

myths or certain things that people have said about me. So I guess the bunker one is the I guess the most prevalent one, but I, you know, I had to do the, the podcast tour when it first happened,

and I almost had to sue Kyle Wilcher for it and blah, blah, blah. So, you know, it's still, it's the fun stuff telling everybody that you're not a psycho. It gets,

it gets, it gets, it gets, interesting to say the least. But, uh, yeah, like the,

I, I shot rifles for a while. It's kind of a hobby of mine. And, um, it's just kind of a subculture up here in the, uh, northwest.

You also, look, you have a family. I know you've posted stuff from a lakehouse. It feels like, from the, again, and like social media is not always a direct parallel to what your real life is, right? A lot of us post things about our life. And then inside, you know, we have all kinds of issues. How is your life? Like, to somebody who's going to ask you, how is your life? It's good.

I mean, I got three kids. My oldest is 11, an 8-year-old. And I just had a, my son is three just turned. three in August. So yeah, I do games for Learfield, IMG College for Gonzaga, play-by-play or color during the winter. So my summers are pretty free, pretty open. You're going to be a dad.

I coach my oldest daughter's AU team, play a lot of golf. I'm at the lake a lot, about a lake place in Cordoise, about five years ago. So my life's okay, I guess. I've got to watch college basketball for a living and just be a dad. Your dad was a basketball coach, right?

And so when you were born, he was in Montana, was it at Dawson Community College? Is that where he was then? Yep. When did you first, like, when did it first click? Like, this is what I want to do? As far as soups, just playing. Yeah.

You know, really, being you're a coach's kid, I believe, as well. So it's kind of brainwashed to be a player. And so I was just always around the gym And, you know, obviously it really helped my career You know, just having that experience And kind of that extra knowledge, especially at a younger age, to be able to be successful. And, you know, I was a gym where I grew up.

And so, you know, my skill development was a little bit higher than most kids at the time, and it really helped me, you know, get a scholarship and, you know, make it to the NBA. Remind me, when was it you found out you were diabetic? It was 14. I got really sick. I was in eighth grade. I got really sick. Lost probably at 30 pounds, which obviously is a lot for, you know, how thin my body type is in general, especially at that age.

I had to go to the hospital. I was in the hospital for four or five days. Really didn't think I was going to be able to play sports at the time because the technology wasn't where it is now. and I was lucky I had a really good endocrinologist that really put me on the right path. And I kind of used it as a discipline to help me in athletics because, you know, you have to be so controlled to be able to play at a high level. So I looked at it as a blessing looking back, but at the time it was very worrisome because, you know, we just talked about I was a gym rat.

I was a coach's kid. I loved the game. And then all of a sudden, you know, you're having to go to the hospital and tell you that you have to take shots, you're going to change your diet. And, you know, there's just that fear of not knowing what's in the future health-wise. But, again, like I said, I used it as a positive, and I tried to use it as a discipline, and it really, you know, kind of changed my outlook as an athlete, even though I was only in eighth grade of how you have to eat and how you have to be cognizant of how you treat your body. And so I think it later on helps me a little bit. I think it helps a lot. I mean, like, here's my perspective.

So my dad was type 2 diabetic. And so he actually, when I was like in, he was like 50. So how it was I was like 10 when he became type 2 diabetic. Anyway, we basically started eating kind of his diet and, you know, staying away from things that were that, you know, so high in sugars and kind of ahead of the curve. in terms of eliminating even complex carbohydrates, you know, from the diet, which now is the norm. And back then it was the exception. Like, again, you go to my high school days and the night before a game, like, go carboload, right? Which you never.

Yeah. You'd never do now. But I do feel like, like, look, the way people are eating now, like, that's how I ate in high school. And people used to think it was crazy that we were eating avocados and meats and salads and whatever. I almost feel like, you know, look, in addition to your skill and to your brain, like that probably ended up really helping you because you started to eat an athlete's diet before anybody else would. Yeah, absolutely.

I mean, I ate the same, you don't type of meal before every game since high school all the way to the NBA, you know, a long-lasting protein and then a solid carbohydrate like potato and then a green vegetable. And exactly right. That's what I have. You know, yeah. Some guys, you know, I got to the league and it was so funny because some guys would eat like pancakes and syrup and eggs and bacon before games. I'm like, how do these guys do it? And, you know, obviously they're God-given really good basketball players.

But, yeah, I think it really helps me down the line. You show up at Gonzaga, a place where, you know, like, I think what, fourth grade you move there, right? Is that, is that right? Yeah. Yep. So you show up at Gonzaga. at Meade. Everybody locally knew you, but nationally, we did

not. Like, you know, if you would tell us, like, man, we get this really good local kid or whatever. What do you remember about your first kind of, your first time on campus as a Zag? You know, I just remember what really helped me

being a local kid was I was allowed to play pickup for about a year as a high schooler, you know, or, you know, five months before the season. And so I really got comfortable early. And then I had success during those pickup type of games. So that I kind of knew going in that I had a good chance of,

because when I first recruited me, they told me they were in a gray shirt, whatever that means because of the diabetes. Everybody was afraid. You know, I was hardly recruited coming out of high school, and I was, you know, breaking records and went to a state championship game. We went to state a year before.

So it wasn't like I was, you know, just came literally out of nowhere after one season. So I think just being in town and allowed to be around the guys for like five, six months really helped. And then I figured out that I was good enough to play right away. So I think that was a real advantage for me because instead of just getting thrown in the fire right away or showing up, you know, obviously in the fall and then maybe realizing you're not good enough, or there's a skill set that you didn't work hard enough at, or you know how it is. You see guys that are really highly recruited, then they get on campus.

Oh, dude, you have known. They get exposed. Well, it's not just that. Yeah, I also think, and you tell me, I'm wrong, but also they knew you could play, right? Whereas, like, my, my, I remember when I could shut up in Notre Dame, like, yeah, I knew, I knew I could, I had confidence, although, you know, we had to practice.

It was a little bit overwhelmed initially. But you still, you kind of have to re-revement. prove yourself to those guys, especially the older guys. And, you know, they're like, you know, they don't like, especially back then, they really didn't like younger guys who didn't earn their kind of credit hours. Like, I can imagine that like Blake Step and Corey Violet and Roney when you showed up on, because you had played you and because you grew up in the area, you had some equity there. Whereas, like, when I was at Oklahoma State, like, no one knew that I could really score when I was in high school.

And so there, no one, no one ever, never, no one ever thought it was anything other than me. Like, oh, I can't shoot. That's just, that's just the deal. Whereas with you last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending. Opinions are flying. And nobody's telling you exactly what happened.

That's where sports slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise. Breaking down the plays, the controversies and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves. Their locker room stories, their reaction. the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs,

the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports Slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them.

Listen to Sports Slice on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of Mental Health Awareness Month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests.

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Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard radio app. or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, guys? This is Clivert Taylor the 4th.

And on my podcast, The Clivert Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker, this linebacker walks up to me. He goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Time out.

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They knew what you could do. And so you didn't have to kind of earn their trust. It was already there. I mean, that season, my first year, we had 16 years. and I ended up, you know, playing 19, 20 minutes off the bench. And I think me playing so well in the summertime, like you said, it gave me the equity, Blake Stepp, Cal Bank had those type of guys would tell Coach Few like, hey, man, we've got to play this kid,

even though he's a true freshman and we're loaded. I mean, that was the year we went to, we lost in Nevada in that second round. We were a number two seat in Seattle. So we were, you know, we were a really good college team and with a lot of good players. So I think you're exactly right. When you get the opportunity to play early, you can kind of wash away the freshman aspect, and you're exactly right. It's different now.

Like kids show up now. Nobody cares that there's, you know, freshman or sophomore, because there's hardly any seniors anymore. Back then you kind of had to assume that you weren't just going to play just because you were young, you know, for the most part. So I think exactly, like you said, being around the guys, improving myself a little bit in, you know, pick up and just fitting in right away really helped my transition when I first got to Gonzaga.

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And Andy Katz and I would always talk about like, dude, that dude is really smart and really interesting. and that's kind of the one thing about Zags is I always feel like there's other conversations outside of just basketball, whether it's music or politics or whatever. There had to be one of those older guys. I was like, dude, shut the fuck up. I think, and he's a good guy now and I see him around town, but do you remember Tony Skinner? Sure. I don't think he really liked me much when I was at campus because I kind of took his spot a little bit that last year. I ate up some of his minutes, but I see him around town now, and, you know, he's a good dude.

That's a hard one. That's like a really, really hard one that it's interesting you bring up, right? A guy who Tony Skinner was a senior, you know, from Albuquerque, and here comes this, you know, freshman, local kid, you know, white kid coming in and takes all his minutes and takes up all the air. And, like, that's a hard one to take, right? That's got to be interesting. Absolutely. And, you know, looking back, especially, you know, you get older. And a lot of ex-ags live in town and have families and are good family men and good people.

It's funny because you look back and you're like, I'd probably have the same reaction if it happened to me. And it's not anybody's fault. It's just the way the cookie crumbles sometimes. And, you know, it happened to me in the NBA. You just get to a point where, you know, the minutes just can't come, even though you're not really a bad player per se. It just happens. So, yeah, that was, it was a little bit tense sometimes, you know, doing like rebounding drills.

And, you know, you've probably been in a situation. An older guy just wants to really knock your head off just because not necessarily to get the rebound or to make the play. It's to prove a point. So there were some tense times, but. I got a story for you. I got a story for you. So when I get at Notre Dame, there's the other point guard. is Admore White.

And the way it worked then, it still works this way in some programs, is, you know, like, you'd only have a freshman if you had a junior point guard, right? Like, you'd have a year space in between not recruit over guys. And, um, anyway,

so, uh, in pickup, I was, I was the better player, uh, although, you know, like I went from 160 to 177. That was when creatine first came out and I was lifting.

I was yoked. So my, my shooting was struggling. But I was, you know, an open game. But once we got to practice like, He was, I couldn't, I struggled to play in a system, you know, like that's just not,

it was the first time you're really coached and you're playing half-court basketball and we didn't, you know, I was playing for John McLeod and he ran, you know, kind of a true two-side motion off. I was just not comfortable and he was kicking my ass. And we get ready for, you know, the first exhibition game, I didn't play very much. The second-extimmission game, I played well, but I got in foul trouble. So we get ready for the, for the, for the, for the, for the first game, we're playing Akron. And my first game in Notre Dame, and I only, one of the reasons I signed there was because they said, you know, you'll start right away. You'll start for four years.

And yada, yada, yada. And I wasn't, I hadn't really earned the right to be a starter in practice. And I knew that and I was really struggling with that. And we had this play. It was called X Down Glass. And I've never seen anybody run it. And basically what it is is X Down was like a flex cut duck in. Right.

And I would fake like I was coming off a UCLA. cut, come back, catch the ball. Pat Garrity would be on the weak side of the floor, set a flex pick, and then duck in, kind of like that Maryland offense, throw a low bounce pass. He'd turn in. You know, like a Paul Pierce play, kind of? A little bit, a little bit.

Yeah. So X-down glass was if they were fronting on the duck in, Pat Garrity would seal the guy, and you'd actually throw it off the glass, and it would bounce to him, and he'd catch and lay it in. It's like an old NBA play. Yep. And, um, look, Admore White was, he was like bow-legged, but freaky athletic.

But he was, he was, he kind of could be, like, the reason they brought me in was he kind of could be a turnover machine at times. And, um, with, with creative passes especially, like, he was, he was a good player, a talented player. But he hated X-down Glass. He fucking hated it. And like, in practice, when we do it, we'd go through, like, he'd be on the blue team, first team, I'd be on the gold team. We'd run it. And every time he'd fuck up the pass. And he'd mumbled to me and like,

I fucking hate that, I hate that play. I hate that play. So we're playing Akron. It's the first game of the season. And it's like the third time or fourth time down the court, John McLeod does the, he crosses his middle and index finger and points down and starts whistling. And that's the sign for X down glass, because they're front and then low pose.

And I swear to God, I took off my sweats. I'm like, this fucker's going to throw it out of bounds. So he, so. course he air mails it into the band and he gets hooked and um and i played well and he still started the next three games but i end up you know beating him out and starting the rest of the year the good thing for me was even though 80 was a great dude i think he actually was more pissed at mcclod for calling plays that he knew he couldn't do than he was it then he was at me for taking his minutes oh yeah i mean there are times when it's you know like you know like you

you said, you feel as a freshman, you're like, man, should I be playing these minutes? And then, you know, you beat out a guy and you just, you kind of cringe to yourself because, you know, they always tell you if you could beat out by a freshman, it's your fault, you know, it's nobody else's fault. And at least that's what my dad told me going in after I was a, when you're at Gonzaga, it's like, hey, man, they're going to recruit over you. It's just how it goes. The way the cookie crumbles. So don't make sure that when somebody shows up, the first, you know, two weeks that you kick the shit out of somebody just so they know that you're not taking their spot.

So it's interesting now, though, how the dynamics with the one and duns and all that stuff with college basketball. What do you think, Doug? I mean, honestly, you watch a lot of games. Do you think the product is as good as it used to be or do you think it's kind of got, you know, watered down? I would say at the top it's very much watered down.

I would say in the middle it's not. I mean, like, look, it's interesting, Gonzaga how Gonzaga would always take a transfer or two and now, you know, it's grad transfers, it's four-year transfers, it's four-in-kids, and though there are the occasional, you know, now you got one and done's and two-and-duns, you also have, you know, more four-and-five-year guys, which is kind of honestly how we did at Oklahoma State a long time ago. And so Gonzaga is able to, I think the product of Gonzaga is as good or maybe. be better, to be totally honest.

Whereas I think, you know, the Kentucky's and the Dukes of the world, like, those guys are freaky talented, but they're not, there's just no way at 18, 19 years old, you're going to be as good as shotmaker or smart of basketball players you are if you've lived it for a couple of years. Absolutely. You know, and so, you know, trying to find that balance. I think Kansas does usually does a really good job of having the balance of one and Duns and some three and four year players.

But no, I don't think it's good for the sport. I don't think it's good for the NBA. I think that's the big thing that it's missing is that so many in my business, or I guess our business, want the player to get paid that we miss that. We miss that it's really not that good for the product to have guys go and barely play as rookies and go into the G league, you know, like it's just, let me ask you about you. So what about what's your opinion?

Like people know my opinion. I have a radio show every day. What's your opinion? I think it should be zero or two. And, you know, I really think if, you're good enough to play or perceived to good enough to play that you should be allowed to go right away. And then if you go to college, it should be too. And I think kind of like what the NFL does is, you know, they do the three-year. So everybody kind of weeds themselves out, right? And the hurt

kind of fins itself. And you automatically get to see if guys are ready to play. I hate the idea that college basketball is like really ripping people off, I think there's value in an education, there's value in walking out of the university without debt. Now, I come from, you know, my years at Gonzaga, I generate a lot of income for the university. That's just the truth, and that's not me trying to brag or anything like that. You know, it's just the truth.

Last night, a blown call changed the game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athletes themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions,

the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer-beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. SportsSlice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to SportsSlice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host and your favorite therapist,

Kier Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking. Trip Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing.

And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross. Because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth. Are you a good person because you're afraid?

Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, is we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hardway. Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged.

It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashed. human potential. Either way, the podcast, Superhuman, documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, guys? This is Clifford Taylor the 4th. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff, like being an internet

famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker walks up to me, he goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Quarterback on office blue of 42. Hey, rep, my mama wants you to wave at her. What? Hey, Miss Parker.

Listen to the Clippers show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. So. But let me ask you this. Let me ask you this. for the rest of your life. You do games during the year. If you wanted to, you know, do you have a book, by the way?

I don't. I mean, you could do a book. You could do a movie, right? Like, your story is a book. Your story is a movie. And you're Adam Morrison. Like, yes, I guess that I get that during that period of time, they benefited financially from you.

But for the rest of their life, like, you're Adam Morrison Gonzaga. You're... Yeah, no. I agree. It didn't bother me, is what I was trying to say. Everybody uses the idea that, you know, if you're not paying the players, like they're obscenely getting ripped off.

It's like there's only a certain amount of college players that really generate a lot of wealth for their universities. So I always looked at it as, hey, I was afforded the opportunity to come back to school. They gave me that opportunity to finish my degree because I went finished about six years ago. And I walked out with no debt. And then, like you said, I'm always attached to the program.

And I get to use that likeness for my own personal gain. I've made more relationships that I never would have had. That's a big one. That's a big one. It really is. Boosters, people that I would have never been able to rub elbows with. You know, business-wise, financially, I have the opportunity. for the rest of my life to do that just because of I made jump shots for three years for the

university. So I think it should be zero or two. I really believe, you know, if you're a 16-year-old Wiz kid, they're going to hire you're on Wall Street if you can make them money. So why can't a kid go out and go to the NBA right away? But then if they go, I think they should go for two. Because one doesn't do anything for anybody. I think you just go. for a semester, then you say, you say fuck the rest of the year. So that doesn't help anybody. You're totally getting rid of the student-athlet aspect.

And then for the product, how do you attach yourself to teams as a fan? You know, it used to be, you know how it is. You get a good recruiting class. You're like, all right, maybe in two years we can go to a final four. You know what I mean? Because they're going to grow together. Now it's like, well, shit, let's hope we catch lightning in a

bottle in a three-week sport, basically. You know, see if we can make a run with, like you said, 18, 19-year-old kids that got one-foot-up door, and they got an agent in their year. So I think it's zero or two, in my opinion. Yeah, I guess my issue with the zero is that if you tell them they can go, they're all going to go, even if you go, even if you go like, hey, you're going to go to the G-League. Like, look, they've actually been able to go to the G-League. Since the G-League came. No one does that because they, because most people understand the value. you have, like, look at Zion and how he's benefited from the one year.

Yeah. Not just in terms of his skill and his body, but in terms of his prominence, right? Like, it does, but I just feel like they'll, they all think, I'll go to the G League and then I'll go to the league and like, dude, you don't want to play in the gym. I'm just telling you you don't want that. Like, you don't, you want the college experience. You want the college girls. You want, you want the college fans.

You want to, there needs to be, you need that time in between high school and the pros. And I would generally agree with you. Like I don't understand why there has to be a none and done. I guess the issue is there is the occasional outlier. There is the LeBron James that can do it. But that's a one and a million shot. Most of the guys need time for seasoning. And I don't know, I just always felt like college never hurt anybody.

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I want to ask you a couple things college-wise before I want to get to your your pro experience. The UCLA game. I'll tell you my opinion of it. And then I want all your memories of it. And feel free to not, please don't pull any punches. I think the national people, there's lots of dudes who always,

they put the picture of you crying on the court in Oakland. And to me, it couldn't be a better picture of what you were about, of what Gonzaga was about, what the tournament's about because like that's what it really feels like to lose that that was your last game as a college player

it it and I always thought like people make fun of guys that cry for games like well if you don't cry then it didn't matter to you right yeah like if you don't cry like doesn't matter and it really mattered what I remembered was like the ammo of Gonzaga was man you guys were tough

and skilled but there was Like, Fuey got a reputation, which I don't know if it was well deserved, of a guy who, you know, he was so, he's so balanced in life, but maybe not, maybe too balanced, right? He didn't, he wasn't gritty enough. He wasn't nasty enough. Like, he's a preacher's kid. He's a super nice guy. And maybe that's what got exposed when they started pressing you guys and you started throwing the ball all over the gym.

I don't know. But I look at back at that moment, and I'm devastated for you because you guys did have a great team. You did have a big lead over a super talent UCLA team. And everyone's takeaway from that game is you sitting on the court crying when the former basketball player in me just fucking loves that because it meant something to you. And I know how quickly it's over and that feeling of it being over is really hard. So let's go to you.

UCLA game, just go. Yeah. I mean, we had a big lead. You know, we were up, I think, 16 with about five and a half minutes to go and just really, like you said, throwing a ball over the floor. I took a really bad jump shot late against Jordan Farmer. I should have bounced him down, probably got to eight feet and shot my little runner jump hook

in the lane might have got filed. They had like 10 things that had to go right, go right, you know what I mean, the steel. Jordan Farmer hit a running bank with, you know, end of the shot clock. And then going to the emotional aspect, you know, we thought we had a Final Four type team. I was a local kid. Obviously, there was a ton of exposure that year for college basketball and for myself and JJ Redick. So there was all the pressure, all the eyeballs were on us. And you tell yourself, don't look ahead, but it's a little bit hard not to when you're up 15 with five and a half minutes ago.

and I think that's kind of what happened a little bit. And so it was like getting punched in the gut. It was like having your hand, you know, on the trophy or, you know, on the lead aid game and it's just being taken away from you instantly. And then you're exactly right with the emotion stuff. Every serious athlete of any worse has cried in the locker room or, like you said, that he really didn't give a shit. but everybody's crying in the locker room after every loss in the tournament.

That's always been my experience. I helped coach at Gonzaga for a couple years when I was finished my degree, and obviously I do games on the radio every year that they lose. Guys are always emotional. And that is exactly right. It means they actually care. It was tough to swallow, getting hammered, you know, personally and made fun of constantly. And that was the era right before kind of the Internet went crazy.

So I couldn't imagine what it would be now, you know, as far as like memes and stuff like that. But it was just really a really tough thing to swallow because we lost to Memphis that year at Memphis and we thought we should have beat them. And so we were looking ahead, we were going to play them again to go to the final four. We knew they feared us. And I had a really good game. I think I had 34. Played really well, like my matchup. You know.

And so we were just, it was just such a tough thing to pill to swallow. I don't know that it sounds cliche, but I mean, we literally were kind of looking ahead and then, you know, the emotion stuff. I've never been ashamed of it because... Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind.

Highlights are trending. Opinions are flying. And nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athletes themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls,

we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports Slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to Sports Slice on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slic Life 12 and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests.

I'm talking. Trip Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you

here on earth. Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Games, as we have real conversations about healing,

growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hard Way. Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential.

Either way, The podcast Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, guys? This is Clivert Taylor the 4th. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee.

We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker walks up to me, he goes, Hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Quarterback on office blue 42. Hey, rep, my mama wants you to wave at her. What? Hey, Ms. Parker.

Listen to the Clifford show on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. It's just who I was, and I was an emotional player. I wear my emotions on my sleeve, but I would never be ashamed to being upset for putting your heart into a season and being a local kid. I mean, I was a ball boy. This was like my dream to take Konsega to the Final Four or at least have an opportunity to get back to the lead eight. And it just happened so sudden. So it was tough for a couple years to really think about it, to talk about it, I guess, a little PTSD if you want to go that. far, but also, again, I'm not ashamed of showing emotion that season and those memories

and being in college are some of the best relationships and memories I've had as an adult. So it's something that I'll always be connected with, and I'm aware of that. It doesn't bother me anymore, to be honest. Michigan State game, is that your virtuoso? You said, like, you said, like, hey, I don't know if your kids ever. are like, hey, I want to watch one game of you playing. That year you guys had that, I don't know, double or triple overtime. You had like 43 or something against Michigan State in the semis in Maui.

Is that the game? And it doesn't have to be one that we all remember. If there's one game that you like, watch this tape, that's my favorite game I play. That one is definitely up there because of the circumstances. And, you know, that's obviously a big market game. and being in Maui, but I think one of the best, my greatest college game for me personally was we got beat by Illinois by like 35 and Conceco Fieldhouse and just got our asses chewed like the whole flight home. Rightfully so. I mean, we just got killed.

I was not that good Illinois team with Darren Williams, Augustine, all those guys. So this is your sophomore year? This is my sophomore year. Then we had to come back home and play University of Washington with Nate Robinson, Brandon Roy, Trey Simmons, Bobby Jones, you know, really good players. And we beat them. I think the score was like 96 to 92. And it was just one of those atmospheres that was special.

And it was a gut check, a little gut check game. You know, we were really young that year. And it was a quick turnaround. So we kind of just had to look in the mirror. and, you know, that rivalry is pretty special around here, obviously, Gonzag, and UW. And so that's the game I'd probably show my kids and say, hey, look, look at this one, look at the crowd, look how hard we were playing.

You know, I played well that game, obviously. And so, you know, there's a lot of them. I mean, I got the box score. I got the box score up. You want to know? Yeah, let's hear it. All right. So you had 26 on 19 shots, 26, 8 rebounds, 3 is 6.

says two steals. Roney had 23. Derricka, is it Ravio, Ravio? What the hell is his last name? It changed like... I called him Rav and scrap meat. So, I mean, I've heard him say both, so I really don't fucking know, to be honest.

He's my guy. I know, I know, but he, like, changed his name, like, three times in one college career. It's really... Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Sean Mallon had had 16 in 20 minutes, by the way. And for them, Nate had 22, Will. Conroy had 14. They combined for 17 assists. They combined for 17 assists. They didn't make their free throws. They were 9 to 17 from the free throw line. Yeah, but those games were awesome.

I always felt like you guys, I mean, that's like, that's like, you know, Seattle versus the, not necessarily the suburbs, but like you guys had guys from Vancouver, Washington, right? Like Ravio. You had guys from, like you from Spokane. You had Canadian dudes and Pargo came in from Chicago, right? But you guys were the, you know, Seattle has this, hey, man, we got all these, you know, we got all these players that can go get buckets. I don't know, it's just, it's a very, it's an interesting rivalry that unfortunately went away for a while.

Now it's back and Udub is not quite there yet, but it was, those games were always great. Absolutely. And it was, you know, Seattle was such a hotbed to recruiting wise and it's Rainier Beach and Garfield. Really good high school programs. And so, you know, being from the state, we always heard about how good Rainier Beach

and those teams really were. So we always had kind of a chip on our shoulder. And then it was kind of two contrasting styles, like you said, it was usually a bunch of athletes, a bunch of guys that can get up above the rim and run. And we were kind of more of a system-type team. And, you know, our rivalry,

I think we won eight straight. we lost my junior year at their place for the first time. That was a tough one to swallow, too. But, yeah, it's a really cool rival. I'm glad it's back. It's fun to call to as a commentator just because the universities are so different in a sense. I mean, obviously, there's two private schools, but the philosophies basketball-wise are just so different. And it's fun to watch the two contrasting styles for sure.

Hey everyone, it's Dramos from Life as a Gringo podcast. I Heart Radio's sounds of my culture is brought to you by State Farm. At State Farm, we know how important it is to celebrate Hispanic heritage every day. That's why we support My Coutura and invite you to continue enjoying all its great podcast. We also know what it takes to manage money, no matter the budget. That's why it's a good idea to consider State Farm and their surprisingly great rates. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. All right, Prince Royce, my guy, thank you for hanging out.

And I got to say, listen, I'm curious. When you look back on growing up in a Latino community, what comes to mind for you? I think growing up in New York and being surrounded by so much Latin culture was a blessing for me, I think I was able to listen to so many different genres of music from hip-hop to salsa to maringue to rock, go to a bachata, go to regettone. And I think that's what I loved about New York.

There was such a big present community of everything. Support Coutura all year long by listening to the My Coutura podcast network, available on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. Hey, everyone, it's Dramos from Life as a Gringo podcast. IHartRadio Sounds of My Culture is brought to you by State Farm. At State Farm, we know how important it is to celebrate Hispanic heritage every day. That's why we support Maikotura and invite you to continue enjoying all its great podcast. We also know what it takes to manage money, no matter the budget.

That's why it's a good idea to consider State Farm and their surprisingly great rates. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. All right, I am here with one of the newest members of the Maikotura Network family. Welcome, my bro. Shoro Maridueña from the Lone Lobos podcast. And of course, man, you know, our culture, is always going to be a big part of our lives. So for you, what is one thing that you think makes our culture so special?

When thinking about this question, the first thing that comes to my mind is the food aspect of it. I mean, whether that's menudo on the weekends or, you know, Sopa de Fideo for breakfast. Like, I feel like living in Los Angeles, I am blessed and fortunate to be around so many other Latinos, whether that's Mexicans, you know, Ecuadorino. Cubano, you know, people from all different types of walks of life. Food is the one thing that truly ties us all together. Support Coutura all year long by listening to the MyCotura podcast network,

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If you could talk to me a little bit about the process you went through, and I think it's good to not pat yourself on the back, but to put it out there so other people can kind of hear what it takes. Like, I don't know. I always look at like this. Like, what do I want? I wanted to be a WWE superstar. All right, what does it take to be a WW superstar? What are the tools I will need to give me every possible opportunity I can get?

And so I took the tools of acting classes, improv classes, wrestling school, everything I possibly can to knock on the door of WW. The people of the, everyone on that real world show would wear my T-shirts, would always ask me to do the MIS. Like, they were so supportive. Like, you don't get it that very often. You really don't. Listen to the My Cultura Podcast Network available on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. Give me your best Mark Fu's story. Any Mark Fu's story at all?

Just give me one. There's a couple. There's one after we played Stanford. Do you remember that Stanford team that went like undefeated and lost in the second round that year? Yeah. So we lose to them in Oakland. And I have a good game. You know, off the bench as a freshman, I had like 20 or something like that.

we just got our ass. We lost by like 15, 20. And so we... You only lost by 7, by the way. You lost 87, 81. But we were down 15 the whole game. Like, we shouldn't have... Yeah.

We... Score not indicative of the final score. Of how it really played out. Okay. Get back on the... You know, from the flights, and this is when we had a flight commercial. So it's a long day.

And we're driving up to the gym, and it's, you know, it's probably 30 degrees out and a few weeks gets on the thing. He's like, all right, we're practicing right now. It's like, oh, fuck. And so we get to the gym and everybody's kind of nervous. And every basketball player has been that situation when you just feel the intensity and the awkwardness

and people are pissed off, but you can't really say anything. You're just waiting to see what, are we going to just going to run lines? Are we going to beat the shit out of each other of what's going on? Everybody's tired. And he pulls me to the side. And he just, I mean, fucking rips into me. Like, you are the biggest pussy I've ever seen.

You think you're Larry Bird. You're like Kiki fucking Vanderway. Like, just fucking killed me. And I'm, like, well-in-up tears, you know. Like, I'm 18-year-old kid. I'm like, and I just scored 20 on Stanford, you know, on national television. Like, I played well. And he just, I mean, like, put me in my place.

Like, you can't believe. And my dad was a hard-ass coach. and he really taught me out to handle that stuff, but a few he got personal. So that one was a tough one, but, I mean, there's been some other ones where Derek Ravio threw a ball up in the air one time in practice in a, you know, late game situation. We were fucking screw off freshman kids, so we were celebrating like we just,

because we beat the first team. And the ball just went straight up in the air, and it was like a cartoon. Like, you just did like, whew, and he walks. right into and hits him straight on the top of the head. And it was one of those where everybody like freezes and you're waiting for him to like cuss everybody out and he just didn't say anything, kept walking along and kept coaching again. It was like, holy shit.

Like Derek's about ready to have to transfer right now. But I got one for you. Okay. So I play for Eddie Sutton. Now this is before I got there. This is the legendary Eddie Sutton charge story. So coach obviously was, he's an alcoholic. And so he was at the time when he got fired at Kentucky, he took a year off, and he was a recovering alcoholic.

So he, you know, like he became a big candy guy. So he always had candy in his pockets. So one of his first teams there, like as soon as he took over, they started winning. They were his second year, they started 20 and O. And I think it's the second year team. And they had Byron Houston, they had big country who was a freshman. They had this guy named John Potter. And so some point during practice,

You know, he's like, stop. You guys are so soft. Not one of you. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending. Opinions are flying. And nobody's telling you exactly what happened.

That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise. Breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the. drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real.

From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports Slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to Sports Slice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slic Life 12 and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast. Learn the Hardway with me, your host. and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of Mental Health Awareness Month,

I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it,

and we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on Earth, or are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust.

I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, as we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, learn the hard way. Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential.

Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, guys? This is Clever Taylor the 4th.

And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker walks up to me. He goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Time out.

Quarterback on office blue 42. Hey, rec, my mama want you to wave at her. What? Hey, Miss Parker. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. It's a college man. You can't take it. Somebody run me over.

I'll show you how to take a charge, right? So he plants his feet like in the middle of the lane. And all these guys are like, no fucking way. I'm not running the old man over, right? And so John Potter, he's like 6.8, probably 2.30. Like, fuck it. I'll run him over. So he gets the ball.

And like our charge of Oklahoma State was like somebody throw you a ball. and you just run the dude over, right? And he was supposed to take a little contact, fall back, act like you got killed. So he takes some contact, and all of a sudden there's candy everywhere, right? And Potter got him, like ran him over. And there's candy. And the manager is scrambling around like he's a pinata, right? Like picking up the pieces of candy.

Yeah. And then, you know, somebody, all the players, like, help him up. And he's like, dust him said, I'm all right. I'm all right. Like, now that's how you take a charge. So there's a bathroom at the old arena before they redid it that was like at the floor level that only the coaches could use. So I got to go take a pee. And no one saw him for like two days after that.

So I don't know if he had internal bleeding or shit like that. I remember there's a story at Indiana. Brian Evans told me that one time, you know, coaches sometimes are in the middle of practice or coaching. They get their whistle, whatever, they're yelling at you. They forget that it's transition. And so somebody misses a shot and they kind of get caught up in like the herd running down the. court. There's some famous video of Bob Knight getting run over by like three dudes. And I guess when they had a bad day, they'd go back to the manager's house and they'd all

watch the film of Bob Knight getting run over and just laugh their asses off. Yeah, cheer up a little bit. Yeah. That's funny. So you get, so you finish Jake, you're a junior. Was there ever any thought, let's come back, like your national player of the year, you led the country in scoring, was there ever a thought I should come back and do it again. There really wasn't. Even my sophomore year, I did the, you know, where you can write in, you know, scouts and agents give you your potential draft position.

So after that year, it just made sense to go. Peeley and everybody tried to give me to stay. They understood. And I think it was kind of good on both sides because everybody was getting kind of fatigued. with all the attention as well. So no, I wasn't planning on coming back after that junior season. What was the pre-draft process like for you? I worked out for four teams, and it was good.

I did all the workouts with other guys. You know, a lot of higher picks usually don't do workouts. My agent's thought process was Mark Bartlestein was, I look better going against guys because I don't look I felt good by myself because I wasn't super athletic, blah, blah, blah. The body wasn't great. So I worked out for Chicago, Portland, obviously Charlotte, and I think I did Toronto as well. So it went well.

I felt good about all my workouts. Portland, I kind of got my ass kicked by Rudy Gay a little bit. He was a tough matchup, just in general. He was so athletic and so long. but the other ones I played well and felt good about him, shot the ball well. Who's asked you, did you kick? I kicked the shit out of Rodney Carney, good dude,

but I kicked the shit out of him in a Chicago workout. Chicago drafted him, by the way. Yeah. And then I kicked the shit out of, because some of the guys are throw-ins too, you know, just for, you know, they'll bring in two guys, and then they'll bring two more. in Toronto.

I came over with a guy's name, but I had a really good workout in Toronto. And I was actually kind of worried. I was like, well, fuck, man. I might be the number one pick. Like, this is going to be fucking crazy because I played so well in that workout. Obviously, that didn't happen.

But the draft process is interesting, because you've got to be in the best shape of your life, and you don't realize how out of shape you are per se, college to NBA, until you really go through the process. And then you're like, man, I wish I would have been in this good of shape in college. I would have averaged more points or have played better. But that's just part of the process. You give it the right trainer.

They can really elevate your game, obviously. You know, what's interesting is I feel like it's the same when you get to college. Like, when you get to college, you're like, man, I thought I worked hard. Like, I played for a really good high school coach. He's now a junior college coach. And my dad was a coach like yours. And you think you've been through hard practices and, like, you have no idea what it's like to really play hard. Right?

That's the thing that college. brings to you is it teaches you how to really play hard, how to really compete in practice. And then, yeah, when you get ready for the NBA, you're like, I'm in the best shape of my life. And then you get up now going, you're like, holy crap, why is this so much? And every guy you're going against is longer, more athletic, and they're in crazy good shape. Yeah, absolutely. Eye opener. I mean, I train with Don McLean.

He still does. Guys, he's really good. And he got, you know, the amount of running I did pre-draft was insane. but again it really you know just elevated your game because you're just you know you can jump higher obviously run faster when you're in really good champion

we would shoot and then run a fucking 16 then shoot run 2 16s then shoot run 316 we got up to do an 8 um in a practice you know in the course of a workout and it was just fucking insane but you know when you look back you're like man why didn't I

why didn't any way whisper in my ear earlier in my career because this would have really helped but that's the whole process is crazy you know, because interviews are crazy because you don't know really what to say in your young kid, but you've got to make sure that you're not looking like an idiot and blah, blah, blah. But you're also a, you're also like a,

you're a guy who likes to talk and sometimes likes to argue and stand by your, like did you get into any, like, interesting discussions or arguments with anybody, or did you just kind of let it go and play and just play nice? I remember Scott Schuyles, you know, he was a coach of Chicago, he was funny because we were doing a workout and somebody wore a headband and he had the no

headband rule and apparently this I can't remember who it was, didn't know it and he just fucking chewed this guy out right in the middle of this workout like you know and he was like I could literally be at lunch right now watching you fuckers you know like just chewing us out and then I go have his

interview with him in his office and he was just so blunt and so like bland I mean he's a I don't know him as a person. I don't want to kill his character or anything like that, but he was just like kind of an abrasive and such an asshole, you know, and you're just sitting there like, fuck, who wants to fucking sign up to play for this guy, you know? But, you know, that's why he played in the league for 15 years, short white guy. So I kind of get the mentality. But it was definitely I wasn't used to it. You know what I mean? Usually when you're going to those type of

situations, they're obviously want to know who you are, but they're kind of trying to recruit you in a sense, or at least get to know you on a happy level, if that makes any sense, I guess. Yeah. Okay. So you go to Charlotte. Was Jordan at the workout? Jordan was not a – Jordan was not at the workout.

Jordan wasn't even really involved until my second year is when he, I think, purchased the team or positioned himself to purchase the team. It was – it was – it wasn't Rod Higgins. it was Bernie Biggerstead. I can't believe I was whiffing on his name. But yeah, Bernie Biggerstaff was the one who made the decision to draft me. But Jordan was kind of on the outside. He was a minority owner.

So we'd seen him every once in a while, but he wasn't as all-perceived now, for sure. Okay, so draft night, did you know they were going to take you? I had a good idea, but I wasn't sure. my agent told me it was either going to be Charlotte and then I remember Nate McMillan told me in Portland he goes if you follow to me I'll probably take you which you could argue

if he was serious or not because sometimes people just say that to make you feel good so yeah I was I was pretty sure that I was going to go you know at least six or six and below for sure So yeah, that it was a cool process, but also a very nervous process. And I was very shy at that time.

So all the cameras and stuff really made me uncomfortable. But it was part of the gig. And, you know, I got through the night. And it was a really cool experience, obviously. It's the cliche stuff. But, you know, you end up literally winning the lottery, essentially. And, you know, my friends and family are there. My high school coach was there.

my dad who coached me my whole life was there, obviously, my sisters and my mom. So that's a really special experience. Everybody got to go to New York is the first time. You know, we were small town type of people. So that whole experience was something that we all kind of look back on with, you know, very fond memories. Imagine the biggest secret of your life. Now, imagine trusting that big secret with the entire world.

That is exactly what Tony Morrison did when he made the brave decision to share his HIV positive status. in an open essay on Good Morning America's website. Hi, I'm Zach Stafford, host of In The Deep Stories That Shape Us. In this episode, we sit down with Tony to talk about his identity as a Filipino American, his work as a producer, and the role trust plays in our own journeys. Because sometimes, the road to healing can feel like a retrograde, forcing us to take a pause and reflect about what comes next. Listen to In The Deep, Stories That Shape Us,

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Get the Disney bundle today for only $13.99 a month. Includes Hulu ads and support plan, access content from each service separately. Terms apply. See the Disney bundle.com for details. You show up, so you're drafted, you show up. your first training camp. What was it like? It was pretty good.

We went to, I think Greensboro is where we went, and, you know, physically taxing. You know, I was still trying to figure out the, you know, how diabetes is going to play into the NBA game with 82 games. And, you know, just like you mentioned earlier, everybody's stronger, faster. So it was difficult. at first.

I thought I had a pretty good training camp, pretty good pre-season that, you know, my first year. And it was, Bernie Bickerstap was more of a players coach. So we'd go two a days, but we weren't,

it wasn't horrible. I mean, I did a training camp with Larry Brown. So, I mean, that's, it's night and day compared to what Coach Brown was like.

So Bernie was, Bernie was cool. So, you know, just get, trying to get your fee when. What was different about Charlotte was, you know, the guys before were all throw away expansion draft guys, right? So everybody literally, I know it's pro basketball and you've experienced this, Doug, but every guy was trying to make something. Like, there was

no team orientation at all. I mean, it was like everybody was either early draft pick or they got picked up on the expansion draft. So like every guy, those guys had one foot out the league and then we're all young college players. So going from Gonzaga to you know, I got your back, blah, blah, blah, blah, that type of atmosphere and then going into the pros is really, was really

an eye opener for me. It really, I mean, it was, it was hard. Yeah, I just was never used to that. You know, I always grew up on winning basketball teams and used to, you know, like I said, having somebody's back and playing for the betterment of the team.

And then you get to that situation, like, I'm trying to get mine, and it's definitely, definitely different. Yeah, and that's actually my thing about the G League is, like, It'd be horrible. It's horrible. It literally, the final score almost doesn't matter to most of those guys. No, it doesn't. And, you know, and it's like no, literally no one wants to be there, whereas at least in the NBA,

sometimes the final score doesn't matter, but at least those guys want to be there, right? Their whole thing is they want to stick. and I just think it reinforces so many of the bad parts of a sport that we love and that we're taught a different way. As you pointed out, like you guys started out, I think it was like one, and I'm looking right now, it's like one and six. Your second win was you had 27, right? Do you remember who was against? It was like your first big blow-up game where you played statistically played really well. Do you know who that was against?

San Antonio Spurs. I honestly don't, man. San Antonio Spurs. Oh, yeah. Okay, yeah. I played a good at their place. Yeah, I remember that game. We won an overtime, I believe.

You did win it overtime. Yeah, I remember. 95, 92. They have, listen to who they have. They have Duncan, Parker, Genobly, Bruce Bowen. They did start Fabricio Alberto, but they brought Michael Finley out the bench. Like, that's a good team you went out and gave 27 to. Yeah.

I actually see Bruce Bowen every once in a lot of this charity event up in Idaho, and he always, it's like, hey, do you remember that game? You killed me, and then the next game we played you, you had four points. Thanks, Bruce. But, yeah, I do remember that one. You did have four points later on that month, and you were one of ten? Wow, good memory, Bruce. Yeah, yeah, no, like, because we beat them obviously at home,

and I think they just won the championship the year before. And so we played them at our place, and they just can't. You could tell, like, you know, certain NBA teams circle games. They circle that fucker, and they came out and kicked the shit out of us. And Bruce didn't let me get the ball. And, yeah, it was a rough awakening for me the second time around. But, yeah, I do remember that San Antonio game. It was one of a few good memories I've had of that season.

But, yeah, it was definitely fun to get a win on that floor, you know, get that type of team. When did you hurt your knee? My second year in preseason, and I was closing out on the slowest motherfucker in the league, Luke Walton, who ended up being a really good friend of mine. I went to his wedding and stuff, you know, and I closed out with my left leg. I know what happened as I hurt my quad playing for Team USA going into my sophomore year, and it never healed right. and so I was always compensating on it, and that's what I think, you know, caused the ACL. I tore it during the preseason, and we had a good team.

We had a better team that year, and my role, that second year was going to be coming off the bench and probably playing 20, 25 minutes would have been much better for me, physically, emotionally, you know, mentally, just to be able to kind of go against backups and then not play as heavy a minute and to not have as much. a stress for me to score, and it was really devastating to have that injury because I really felt good. I was playing really good that preseason. So it was a tough pill to swallow, and that was the first time of my life I've ever been injured at any level. What's it feel like? You can actually see the video online. It's your right leg, right?

Your left leg kind of slid a little bit, and your right leg, you plant and you go down. Did you feel a pop? Did you feel it? Like, what was, what's the, what's the memory of it? Yeah, it's a pop. Leg kind of tightens up. And so once it popped, I knew something was wrong, and then I hit the deck, and then I couldn't, you know, I couldn't bend my knee at all. And then it started to swell.

And I think the shock of knowing that you're going to be done for the season is part of it, because I worked really hard to try to come back better. And they really were helping me like, hey, look, we're going to put you in this role. I think it'll be better for you. So I was feeling really good about my game. I was trying to have a nice season come back after a decent rookie season. I averaged 11, but I didn't shoot the ball well, didn't play well.

We were on a bad team. So it was tough. It was really tough emotionally. And then I was all the way out in Charlotte by myself. And it just was a dark time in my life, to be honest, basketball-wise, just to have that and then don't have the opportunity to kind of, to redeem yourself and then, you know, people made fun of me for crying on the floor again and it's just like is a no-win situation for me. I couldn't get it, couldn't catch a break

at that time. But that's life and that's that's sports, you know. So it's so cliche, but it really builds character and it really helps you formulate and figure out who you really are. So in hindsight, I'm thankful for some aspects of that because, you know, you find out who your friends are, you find out who really has your back. It's interesting because you point out that the role that you really were going to evolve into was coming out the bench and just getting buckets and that you're more comfortable with that. Whereas I think, and again, some of this is your wiring, and I think a lot of it is being a coach's son, but also playing with Gonzaga, is, you know, everybody likes to have their name

called me a starter, right? That goes, even if it's, it's just, it's fascinating to me that did you, at the time, did you really want that role? Or was that something that you thought after you got hurt? Like, when they said, like, hey, man, we're going to have you come out the bench, we think this is a better role for you. Were you into it then? I honestly was. I was into it because I understood the year before of just the overall strain on my body for the 82 games. I mean, every, rookie goes through that. But you, you know, you add on

the type 1 diabetes. I mean, I was exhausted by game 50. I mean, I was literally fucking exhausted that first season by then. So my thought process was, you know, I would play 18 to 25 minutes, you know, you know how it works. If you're

playing well, you play 25. If you're not playing well, you probably play 18 or 16 or 15. But I would go against backups and I would be the second unit kind of score. or they'd run place for me. And I really was honestly, truthfully into it because I thought I would be able to kind of revamp my career

and make a name for myself. And that just, you know, that injury just really obviously sideline that. Okay, so you're going through rehab. As you mentioned, you're alone. Do you think you rehabbed well enough? Do you think, like if you go back and do it, would you change it? Yeah, that's a very good question.

Yeah, there would be things I would change, absolutely. Yeah, I mean, I would have, I think everybody could say this, that you always, when you're done, you're like, shit, I could have worked harder. You know, everybody has that regret, and they always tell you don't have that regret. But you're going to have that regret. You're going to have that regret. It's almost a given, you know, with life and anything, especially in athletics, you think back, especially when you're done playing, like,

fuck man, I could have lifted more weights, could have got more shots up, all that stuff. There's very few guys that probably are like that, that don't have any regrets. But, yeah, if I could go back, truthfully, I would have a little bit stronger, a little bit with a little more pizzazz. But I didn't really have any, like, guidance out there. I didn't have any, you know, teammates that were good dudes that were, like, veteran type of guy. that really cared about anybody else. They weren't like bad people per se, but everybody was just for themselves.

And so I was really out on an island emotionally and physically, obviously. So it was tough. It really was. And, you know, if I could look back, I would have probably tried to fly home maybe and rehabbed around people that, you know, you could feel that cared about you and that sort of thing. And that would have helped me emotionally, and that usually when you're, you know, feeling good emotionally, everything reverts back to your body, power of the mind, and all that stuff.

So, yeah, a little bit of regret with how that year went down, definitely. Okay, so that year, you guys were, Sam Vincent was the coach that year, right? Yep, yep. Okay, so the next year you come back, and Larry Brown's the coach. and my dad grew up with Larry Brown. Like Larry was kind of like a legend in Long Beach, New York. And I actually played for his brother, who was an NBA assistant. Herb.

Yeah, Herb, who's kind of like spitting image of him. So you come back and now you're trying to reestablish yourself with a new coach. Like everything is different. What was that experience like? It was very difficult to be frank. his training camps where he said that training camp's not a week long, it's a month long, it's the whole preseason.

So actually, I think it was Jason Richardson called the league on him because, you know, they have that, you know, certain amount of time you can practice, blah, blah, blah, you know, collectively bargained. And we were going over that. And so that was difficult. And then Larry was, obviously, he's a Hallfamer and I'm not going to sit here and discredit it like his character,

but you can be kind of not cognizant of people's emotions or how they're feeling personally. It doesn't mean you have to be a love fest when you walk into the gym. But as a coach, I feel like you have to have a sense of where a guy's at, and you can be demanding without being demeaning. And there was many times where he would be very demeaning to guys, and we would practice and practice and practice. And he would stop every fucking play and talk.

I mean, every single one. So you'd be standing on the court for three hours sometimes, but you're like, fuck, we barely went up and down. But I'm standing here. My knees are killing me. My back is killing me. There's a lot of guys that have the same sentiment. Obviously, he's a Hall of Fame.

I'm not going to say that he can't coach. but it was definitely totally opposite of any type of coach that I've ever played for in my life. Yeah, it's interesting. Go ahead, I'm sorry. Well, it just, it was such an up and down year. I mean, I obviously got traded on the later half of that season, but I had some good games, you know, with some good stretches, and then I wouldn't play for two weeks.

And then you would do things where he wouldn't tell you that you're going to play heavy minutes tonight. I know everybody says that you're supposed to be ready, which is absolutely true. But if you're a professional coach, why wouldn't you just tell your player that, hey, man, I might go to you tonight. You know, before the game, three hours before the game, and things of that nature. He just never did that. He was kind of common asshole sometimes, to be honest. No, no. Listen, I played against one of the ways I got into, got in good at ESPN.

I did a year of just doing games and local radio. and then I went and played in France. I came back after a month in France, and I pitched them on like, hey, I played against Darko twice when I was in Israel when I was still a player. I played against Petrus and Di Al and Andre Carlinco.

And they're all in this draft. And I was like, dude, I actually, Darko is going to be a top five pick. And I actually played against him. And I'm telling you, I believe that Darko, and look, you know, people say like, like you were like Darko was, you know, had to find himself. And Darko, you know, there was,

language barrier and like yeah okay but and i and i'm with you like i think larbound is a great coach but he's not for everybody there is a fit there and had darko gone and played for almost anybody else or played in this era of the nbae he's that dude 611 could shoot could post could block shots like he kicked we at monte milisha was our center when i was in renan on israel monta is a good player at longby state he was 25 years old and we play darko and darko's 17 he kicked monte's ass both times we're like who the fuck is that because like he's 17 like no way he played for hemophrom Mvrazik. And we're like, no fucking way he's 17.

Like, duty's 17. That was like a year before he was going to the draft. Anyway, like, I'm with you. I understand that, and the talking thing is like, dude, enough. Like, let's go. Let's hoop. And you can't be a screamer in the NBA. And, you know, obviously I was lucky enough to see the other complete polar opposite

when I got traded to L.A. with Phil. His coaching style was complete opposite and obviously everybody knows how successful he is. So it was tough man. Larry was an ass kicker. He really was a defensive first type

coach so I definitely didn't fit into that mold. So I was behind the A ball and then I was coming off in ACL surgery. So it was, you know, those years obviously allowed me to live the lifestyle that I live now,

but it was also, you know, a dark time in my life to, to, instead of a joyous one, you know, and you look back and you're like, man, that should have been a really happy time in my life was playing in the NBA. I should have been, you know, feeling good about myself. It was a constant struggle to feel good about myself, to play well, to make friends, to feel fit in. I mean, it was kind of a fish out of water, and it wasn't just Larry Brown, you know, but it It was kind of the icing on the cake when he came in,

and I just really didn't fit in with that organization anymore. You go to L.A. Who was there any dude that took you, and it was kind of took you under your wing or reached out to you when you get to the Lakers? It's such a nice human being towards me and my family when I first got there. My daughter was my firstborn was three when I got there. There were two or three years old if my memory serves.

So he really reached out and was like, hey, man, come hang out. I'll show you around. I'll drive you to practice for the first, you know, a couple days until my car arrived. And just really kind of broke the ice. And then the whole locker room there was just so different. And guys were so cool and, like, welcoming, you know what I mean? And just kind of, you could tell they generally cared about each other. So it was really a time that it was difficult not playing, obviously,

because I was a competitor and I always felt good about my game there. But I always felt content to a certain extent where I didn't have as much anger and frustration because these guys actually cared about each other. They tried to win. And so when I first got there, you could see that right away. And it definitely was a better experience basketball-wise and emotionally. for me compared to Charlotte for sure. I look back and you guys played against the bobcats,

but you didn't play. Like, what's that like to sit there? Like, I'm sure in that night, didn't you want to go to Phil and go like, dude, you've got to give me some minutes here? Yeah, I was pretty pissed off. And he actually, what I liked about Phil is he would apologize to you or tell you why you didn't play sometimes. And he did that just because.

And a lot of pro coaches don't do that, and they don't have to do it. But he just told me that night, he's like, I think we lost that game. He's like, I couldn't find you a spot. So that was difficult. And then getting just, you know, hearing it from the fans on the bench. It was tough to go back there because, you know, there was so much hype for me. Obviously, where I was drafted in a brightfully so, I was supposed to be a better player. for not living up to that was definitely difficult.

But at the same time, there were some cards that didn't fall my way on certain situations. So it was a combination of both. But, yeah, it was tough because I wanted to revamp my career, obviously. I wanted to stay in the NBA. I wanted to be a part of a team. Even if I was playing five, ten minutes a night, I wanted to be able to openly contribute besides practice time. But I just never had that opportunity, really. because we were good.

I mean, the team went to the finals the year before I got there. Then the year I got traded, we win, and then we win again. So this team was already pretty much pre-built, and Mitch Cupcheck just kind of took a flyer on me. And they really wanted Shannon Brown.

It really worked out for the team also. Shannon had a good, you know, two, three years there. So it was definitely a roller coaster ride of the clan, you know. What is it like to win a chance? championship, but to not play. My personal experiences, so my first year, we play in Russia, I play in Russia.

And we were just put together to win the championship. And we did. We won't lost one game the whole time I was there. And, yeah. And the weird thing about Russia was when we would get a lead, they would put all the Russian dudes in. And they wanted their guys to win. And I was playing as an American that year. And it was super weird.

We're playing, I never forget, we're playing Unix Kazan. For a championship, it's like a best of three series. And I think we won all. Or maybe it was the best of five. We won three, oh. I don't remember. I just remember that I was, they would press. I was brought in to break the press.

They would press. I'd break the press. We'd get a lead and now I'd sit out. And I just remember winning a championship. And because I had only been on the team like half to three quarters of the year, I didn't do training camp with them. I obviously wasn't Russian. There wasn't.

And because I didn't play major, minutes. It was my first year out of college. Like, I felt it was like, yeah, I won a championship. And I have a buddy whose name is Joe Smith. So Joe's a, he's a relief pitcher for the Astros. And he won a World Series with the Cubs. And he was with the Indians in the playoffs, I think last year. And I asked him and like, I don't know, it's on the podcast. Who knows who's going to pick it up? But I was like, which was better? And he's like, are you fucking kidding me? I didn't pitch for the Cubs in the playoffs. Like, he didn't

fucking Joe Madden didn't use me. Like I have a real. but I didn't win a championship. It was so much better. He came up kind of with the Indians. That's where he made him. And to pitch for the Indians, even to lose, was better than to not play and to win. You're part of two championship teams.

You have two championship teams. Nobody can ever take that from me. You got a chance to practice against Kobe Bryant on a daily basis and play for Phil Jackson. But what's it like now to have won two championships that you didn't get to contribute to in the playoffs? Yeah. I think you put it best. It's awkward because you know you contributed to the team, but you can't really explain that to people.

And then if you do, you sound like you're reaching. It sounds like a look at me type of thing. So you kind of have to sit there and take the abuse with no chance to defend yourself. So that part was difficult. And it was difficult just not getting a chance to go. I mean, I felt really good about my game. in LA. I thought the second year, I thought the second year you would play more.

The second year was a year after the knee injury. I remember watching you play in the preseason and watching you move around. And I was like, dude, in the triangle, you got to be able to play multiple positions, got to be able to make shots with limited dribbles. You know, you were long enough to defend multiple positions. I was, you know, that was actually surprised. The second year was surprising to me. Yeah.

Again, I mean, I played Summer League the year before, and I know that's. That's kind of a, it can be a little bit of fools' goal, but I averaged 26 in that system and played really well going into that second year. And I finally, you know, I felt good about my game again. I felt like, hey, I can probably squeeze 10 minutes out of this rotation, maybe 15 if I start playing well. And it just didn't happen. And, you know, so then you get to the playoffs.

And, I mean, we have 13 guys. So I'm literally the only guy that has to sit out. So then it's, you know, it's, you know, it's, you know, broadcast. I've lasted 10 times over, and then I'd get consistently mocked. I mean, it was tough. I was lucky that I had good teammates that understood and always stuck up for me as well, which I was always appreciated to, you know, in L.A. That's one thing I'll say about that organization is they treat people the right way for the most part.

You know, my experience was great there. I never felt like a pariah. They never made me feel any less than anybody else because I wasn't playing major minutes. Dude, I was in Summer League for them. I went to two veterans mini camp and never, and, you know, like Mike Penberthy beat me out one year. And then Joe Crispin beat me out in Summer League, whatever, to get to vet camp. And Joe, they both made the team. But it was the same thing.

Like, even for me, like, at least you were a stud. I wasn't. And they were, that's the thing about that organization was they were just like, hey, you know, you want to get a massage? Get a massage. in and, you know, work out, you know, like, whatever. You're, if you're, if you're wearing a Lakers jersey, you're, you're, you're a Laker. Okay, so give me, give me your best Kobe Bryant story. Make sure I'm filtering.

Why? Well, you just crushed Larry Brown. Why? I didn't crush Larry Brown. I know, I know. Yeah. Okay, so everybody knows that the year that he hurt his finger, right? You know, the second year, remember he broke, like, at the top of his,

index finger. Okay. And Kobe was the type of guy that obviously he was motivated, but he got kind of, he would get bored with, because he was so good. But, you know, you heard stories about all the great players that would be like, what's this, you know, what's the highest points in this building or, hey, I'm going to fucking play, you know, three quarters hard and blah, blah, blah, blah, just make shit up to kind of motivate themselves.

Right. season games. And, you know, on the bus, we would always look at, you know, at the end of the games, they give you all the box scores from around the league. And we would always be like, man, fucking, do you see LeBron's line tonight just to kind of like piss them off a little bit, kind of motivate him, you know? And so we got into discussion one night about who has the best left hand. And Kobe was like, I have the best fucking left hand in the league.

We're like, dude, you don't even fucking shoot left hand. Like, what are you talking about? He goes right every time. Yeah, we're like, everybody can dribble left-handed, you know, it's the NBA, like, you're not a part of his argument. Like, because he always said he was the best at everything, even jokingly, but he just, hey, Kobe, you want to play cards, like, no, you guys fucking suck too much. I beat me, you know, it was a puck, all right, whatever. And we're playing that game where he injures his finger, and, you know, it's a meaningless, fucking, you know, regular season game. and he

hurts his singer like in the first quarter plays the rest of the game with his left hand. He scores like 18. I mean, he's playing literally with one hand. And he checks out and he comes, sits right next to me. And this is like a month after we had this conversation on the bus. And he turns and looks to me and goes, Hey, no, you still think I don't have the best fucking left hand in the league?

And I'm like, this guy's fucking nuts, man. Like, absolutely crazy. And then, I mean, there's plenty of other, I mean, jabs. I mean, one time I was talking trash to him, and everybody was gassing me up because I, you know, I had a good practice against him or something made some jumpers against them. And somebody was gassing me up, so I was just like, yeah, man, how'd you like that fade away? And he goes, every time you are guarding me and I catch the ball, there's a giant SOS on your fucking back.

Shutting on, he just started clowning me. And it was right, you know, we were, that's what was one of the fun of the, things about that team is the locker room. And I'm sure you've experienced it as well as when you can rib your buddies and it never gets personal, but it gets very close to the line. That's how it always was. So, yeah, man, he was such a competitor. All this cliche stuff about him are so true.

Hardest worker I've ever seen. Toughest motherfucker I've ever seen. Wanted to win more than anybody else demanding. But I experienced the nice. Kobe. You know what I mean? So I've heard some other stories about him kind of really killing guys.

I mean, I've heard the story about who is the guy played at Florida State that played for them? Was a Von Wafer? Von Wafer, yeah. I think he got him traded was the story I always heard based off of like a three-on-three game.

And Vaugher was talking trash to him and he's like, well, fuck, I'll just get you traded. Like, told him, like, I'll get you traded. And I got him traded. And so, like, there was some interesting things he said that were funny because he likes, you know, he's a good person. You know, he does a lot for

the community and he cares about people, but I think he likes being an asshole at times, too, just to fuck with people because he's a thinker. You know what I mean? Yeah. And so there were some times where he would just, he would fuck with, like, the security guys that have to be around him all the time and just, you know, kind of be an asshole to him and you'd sit there and kind of smirk because he's like dude what fuck are you doing man like this poor guy's fucking running all over the hotel

to go grab your fucking phone why can't you just put in your pocket you know or something like that but I had really I was lucky to be with him he really helped me get through the season and it was always cool with me and my family always I mean so Kobe Bryant has a

place in my heart as just a competitor and somebody that could have just let me be off to the side but he always made sure that I felt part of the team, and I always appreciated that. Game 7, NBA Finals, Boston Celtics, right? And then your last game is a Laker, I think. Yep. What was that experience like?

I mean, because that was an absolute war. I felt like Ron Arte's toughness won that game posting up, getting some buckets. He had a bunch of steals, like five steals. But again, I wasn't there. I wasn't in the locker and wasn't the court side. You were. What do you remember about game seven against the Celtics? I think it was, I mean, the refs didn't call anything as they shouldn't.

But I think you're right. I think Ron brought us in an extra dynamic of toughness that whole season. It helped us push through. It helped Pal. It helped Lamar, obviously. And I remember just how kind of lucky we got in a sense that, because Kobe played bad. statistically that game. I think he was...

Six of 24, 0 of 6. Yeah. But you guys did, by the way, he did shoot 37 free throws. Only 25 or 37, but he shot 37. But it was a pure 6th, but yeah, he couldn't make a shot. Couldn't make a shot exactly. And he was, you know, pressing the issue and forcing it. And, you know, one of our things, especially during the season as all of our bench guys, he was still on the sideline, like,

not directly to him, but we're like, fucking throw the ball to pal. Just throw it to him. he's going to make the right decision. He's a really good player of all of a box. When Kobe started to get going, obviously he's a great score, but sometimes he would, you know, you would fucking, hey man, you got to swing the basketball one time, like, just pass it. You know, we know you can score.

We know your competitor. And I think he was kind of in that mindset. He was just pressing so much. But I think Ron, you're exactly right, really kind of stabilized us inside. And then he obviously made that big three-blade. And that was such an emotional. game for the whole team because there was so much pressure

on that team to obviously repeat being the Lakers and then going against Boston and losing to them the season two seasons before the Orlando championship so I remember guys being really happy obviously in the locker room

but being just more of like fuck it's finally over man I can so I can think you know what I mean I can relax I can be myself because it was so stressful for a lot of those guys to go out there and win. Bynum. Was he just, was it his knees?

Was he too goofy? Yeah. I think it's a little bit of both. He was a great kid. You know, I think a little bit immature for the time. Obviously, I mean, he came in the league at 17. Can you imagine being 17 in Los Angeles as part of the Lakers? And with a shit ton of money, too, you know, and coming from nothing.

So Andrew always worked out and always was on the training table. So when people would be upset about his knees, it used to bother me as a teammate and as a friend, you know, okay, man, that's 320 pounds. He really can't help it. You know, his knees naturally bowed in. So he obviously had rotten luck there. but I think some of the stuff off the court

you know with all the cars and stuff like that was like kind of off putting to people and I can kind of understand why because I mean

this this dude fucking spent I mean had to spend like 10 million on cars I'm not even fucking kidding or five to 10 million dollars I mean it was Ferrari he had a Lambo he had two chargers

and then he got sued by his remember he got sued by like his neighbor because he was part of and all of his cars out front of his house and that, you know, I'm sure he was in Brentwood or somewhere. So, yeah, I just, I always felt bad for him because I think he was in too early, and I don't think he had the maturity level, and I don't think he had the right people to say no around him. That was the biggest issue for me, because it's easy to just bring your mother along or bring somebody that's kind of your caretaker,

but if they don't say no to you, then it's basically not like they're not even there. And so there is the times where I would think, man, like, how is this guy, you know, I don't know his financial situation. I'm not trying to throw somebody out of the bus, but I just think like, fuck, man, like, Howard, you better put $5 million away and just so you can't touch until you're 55, please God, or something like that, because he was just spending so much money on cars

and stupid shit because he was so young. And then you were like, dude, your knees could give out tomorrow. And they did. And they did. Yeah, and they did. And so I hope he's well. He's a good person,

a good dude, good heart, you know, good teammate, all the, all the stuff. It just, I think he was a little bit too immature. And like I said, you got to have people that say no to you. You've got to have financial people

have to tell you no. Or you got to be not smart enough or just have enough nuts to tell yourself like, all right, everybody knows I'm fucking rich. I don't have to keep showing it. You know, everybody knows we are. So just buy one car and be fine with that and be happy and content with that.

So I don't know. Okay, I got a couple more here. I had drinks with Kobe. And his, one of his things he champions about himself. As you know, he does think he's the greatest ever. And he's like, look, before, If Paul Gasol play with me, everybody thought Powell Gasol was a pussy. He's like, and we won two championships with Powell Gasol, and you can't be a pussy and win a championship.

What was your experience of Powell playing with him, his toughness, his intelligence? Like, what's he really like? Fundamental, most fundamental and most precise player I've ever played with. Obviously, Kobe was the best. the pal was I mean he does shit that they told you in like fifth grade like chin it to the rim every single time like

he was so skilled that he obviously elevated the Lakers to those championships and he was not a pussy he was just you know he was a spaniard I mean there is a different culture you know

just because he liked wine and going to the opera it doesn't mean he was soft and I think Kobe really helped him through that phase, and he really, you know, challenged himself because he did get his ass kicked in that finals against Kevin Garnett and then redeemed himself for those two championships because he had to go against Dwight Howard, and then obviously Kevin Garnett later in that second championship run. So Powell was one of the, you know, best all-around players I've ever played with easily. Soft touch. He can shoot.

15-foot left-hand running hooks, could pass. He could shoot the three, and I think if he played, like, if he took his prime now, he would be almost just as good or even better because I think he could stretch the floor a little bit more, but, you know, it was more back to the basket a little bit. Even then when I was playing, there was still a post aspect to the game. So unbelievable player, unbelievable teammate, good dude, not a pussy, you know, just lucky to play with him. I was always in awe just how skilled he was.

I mean, honestly, unbelievable. Was your heart, you went and played in Belgrade, you went and played Besutosh and Turkey. Was your heart in it, right? That's a hard thing to go from being, you know, the golden child of college basketball, top three pick, and then, yeah, I'm sure you wanted to play, but you're with the Lakers, right? Facility and the Staples and winning a championship,

Now you're, no matter how good, how a level it is in Europe, it's just different. There's still a hook in the locker room, right? Dude, smoking in the locker room after games. Was your heart in it? I think it was more so in Turkey because my family was there. Belgrade was tough because I played for Pesch, who was legendary. He won that, I think, 99 Fiego World Cup or the championships. So he was an established legend.

And this fucking guy, we would go two a days. every single fucking day. It didn't matter. And I explained to him, hey, look, man, I'm not, I'm not dogging you. But I need to, you know, I'm type one diabetic.

Like, I need rest. I just do. And if you give me rest, I guarantee I can go out and give you, you know, how you're up is, you do you 18 a night. That's like scoring 30 over there.

You know what I mean? It's a different game. So that was, that was difficult. What I was appreciative of, though, when I went over there, was experiencing the culture

and understanding kind of how the world works. Because when I first landed there, my, you know, guy who showed me around or whatever, he drives me to the center of Belgrade and there's that bombed out building. I said, well, what's that standing up? Because you don't remember that? And he goes, that was, you know, Bill Clinton, 99, Slobodon.

Yeah, Slovado on Milosevic, yeah. And so that really takes, you know, puts you in perspective of, you know, life and things of that nature. So I was really thankful looking back what those experiences gave to me, especially, you know, obviously, like I said, Belgrade, but then also going to Istanbul

experiencing a Muslim country. You know, you get the idea that not, you know, kind of how the media portrayed Islam wasn't very good at that time period. And so experiencing that kind of, culture and understanding that most of the people are exactly like us with a few minor changes in diet and how they pray, it really helped me as a man, as a person, and see the world differently.

And I know that sounds really cliche, but that's the one experience is that I was thankful for to kind of hit rock bottom per se. miss my family, miss United States, miss everything that comes along with this country, and be able to kind of find myself basketball-wise, because I played well in both stops, got paid well, had some great experiences, great friends. But at first, to be honest, Doug, it was tough.

I mean, I almost just retired after I got, didn't get picked up that summer. I was almost saying, you know, I made enough money, blah, blah, blah. I'm just going to hang it up. But that opportunity arose, and it helped me at least, you know, get some summer league opportunities after that. All right. Last thing.

A couple last things. You did Summer League with the Nets. You were signed by the Blazers. Didn't play another NBA game. When you walked away, like now we started by talking about like you're good now. When you walked away, were you, what was your mental state in terms? Did you just want to get back and play one more game? Did you feel like you had a lot more basketball in you?

Were you just done because your body was done? What was your mental state when you walked away? You know, regretative emotions were there. And it was really tough at times. I mean, I honestly, Doug, I didn't watch a basketball game probably for a year after I retired when I was with Portland. Like any basketball, like it would come on and I would change it. And this is, you know, I grew up in a basketball. household and that part was was definitely odd for me.

What really kind of helped the, I guess, the healing process for me emotionally was I was lucky enough to be able to help out the high school I coached at with a coach that I played for. And he just invited me, he's like, hey, man, just come help these kids out or just show up and do whatever you want. And that kind of helped bring back, you know, a little bit of a joy. But it was tough. I mean, honestly, because it was, you know, you. everybody looks at you as a failure instantly.

And, you know, people have said things about me and about my character and stuff. Like I'm some pariah or some bad dude. I've never been in trouble in my life. I've never heard anybody. I've never done any of those things. Maybe I'm a little bit, quote, unquote, odd, but I'd rather be odd than just fucking square normal. So it was tough. It really was.

It was a dark place in my life because I went. through a relationship change, basically got divorced, even though I wasn't married at two kids. So there were some dark times. And then basketball was kind of the cognizant or the reason for those dark times. But I was lucky enough to be able to, like I said, help coach. And then Gonzaga allowed me to go back to school and help coach there. And then I slowly started to fall in love with the game again. and then, you know, now, obviously, I call games for Learfield,

and then my daughter plays. And so I get the joy, my cup gets filled again with basketball, which makes me feel good, obviously, because it's a sport that I've always loved, and I always will love, and it's brought me to places around the world. I've met people I've never met before, all the stuff that comes along with being a professional athlete. It's because of basketball, obviously,

So it was tough, though. I'm sure you've dealt with it a little bit. I'll give you, I'll give you mind on a lesser level, right? Like, so I was a high school American. I go to Notre Dame. I get in trouble. I sit out a year. I go to Oklahoma State, but I can't watch myself play at Oklahoma State because I got to where no one thought I could shoot.

I didn't think I could shoot. And so guys wouldn't guard me. So I still, like, part of me is like, hey, I must have been really fucking good to not be able to shoot at all. and the team couldn't function with the opt-me on the court. But that's hard to relate to somebody who doesn't understand the sport or wasn't there, right? Yeah. And so when I finished playing, like, I knew I could play in the NBA. I just, I knew it because I'd kind of broken through some of those mental things when I was playing overseas.

But I went, when I was first to the ESPN, like, I didn't pick up a ball for about a year, year and a half. They'd all pick-up play pickup ball, whatever. Like, I just, I didn't like it. I covered it, and I liked covering it. but I just, I felt like it was potential that I did not truly tap into. It's a really hard, it's a really hard experience. It's like you said, like you go back and you thought you worked hard. You're like, damn, when I was in college, like, I'd hang out.

My girlfriend became my wife. Like, man, I should have just lived in the gym and fixed my jump shot. I'd be in the NBA. But all that path takes you to where you are now, which may actually be a better place than had you been an NBA player and for me or had you been an NBA star for you, you might not have been in the mental state to where you appreciate everything. Is that fair? Absolutely right.

Tough times, create character and all the cliche stuff that goes with it, but it really is true. You find out who your friends are. You find out what you're true, you know, what really makes you happy because, you know, when you're a star in college and in the NBA, you know, it's usually all the plastic stuff that usually matters. And when that stuff is taken away and you're quote unquote normal, I guess, which is I don't like using that term.

Terrible word. Yeah, you know what I mean? But it can be really difficult to put your life in perspective in a positive way to be able to tell yourself like, hey, it's okay. that you're not, you know, a superstar, you didn't make $100 million. You still have these life experiences. You still have these connections. You know, from in my perspective, I get a call games for Gonzaga for living.

Forget all that. Let me give you my perspective, okay? You're a coach's kid from nowhere, Washington. You became the biggest star in college basketball. You led the country in scoring. You're national player of the year. and you're the number three pick of the NBA draft. There are 550 high school basketball players every year.

You were the third pick of an NBA draft, right? There you go. You won. You won. Everything else is icing on the cake. Yeah. I appreciate that. Yeah.

I mean, it was difficult at times to really believe that message in myself. but, you know, having kids really put life in perspective to, I don't want to get too, sap, you know, we're supposed to be talking basketball, but honestly, just having kids, it gives you a purpose, it gives you a different direction, it gives you a reason to get yourself out of that mental state and be healthy and be positive and be happy, and then once they start getting older, you get to share the joy of what this sport brought to be. So it was definitely a four years, five years of a lot of pain and anguish and frustration, but there was also a lot of good memories as well.

Adam, I can't tell you how much I appreciate you joining me, sharing with me where you are now. Can't wait to, I want to do this again and not talk about you and just talk about, we'll pick up basketball and life in general. Great to know you're in a good place and look forward to talking hoops with you in the future. All right, Doug. Again, man, I appreciate you having me on, give me the opportunity as well. Be sure to catch live editions of the Doug Gottlieb show Weekdays at noon Eastern 3 p.m. Pacific. Hey, my thanks to Adam Morrison, and thank you for listening.

Remember, listen to the Doug Gottlieb show. Weekdays, 3 to 6 Eastern, 12 to 3 Pacific. Make sure you tell a friend or tweet out a friend or share this with a friend so they can download, subscribe, and rate our podcast. Make sure you rate. It's better for me when you rate us. It's also better for me when you get friends to subscribe to us. And I appreciate you listening.

Hopefully you enjoyed it. I'm Doug Gottlieb. This is All Ball. Hey, Singles. Do you feel like a tourist in your own town? Too busy to enjoy all your city has to offer? Events and Adventures organizes up to 30 unique get-togethers around town each and every month. We do all the work, so you have all the fun.

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