The Herd with Colin Cowherd - All Ball - Lakers Exit, 2nd Rd. Matchups -- Guest: Former Providence Star Jamel Thomas on Coney Island, Marbury Relationship

Episode Date: June 10, 2021

In this episode, Doug talks with former Providence star and NBA forward Jamel Thomas on his rough Coney Island upbringing, not playing hoops until later in his childhood, transitioning into a stable environment in Rockaway, starring at the famed Lincoln High School, his relationship with Steph Marbury, their legendarily stacked AAU teams, why he chose Providence, and how he got other stars like God Shammgod to join him. Make sure you download, rate and subscribe here to get the latest All Ball Podcasts! Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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This is All Ball. Man, you are going to love this, uh, the interview on, on this All Ball. Jamel Thomas is my guest. Now, to those of us who know Jamel, you would probably know him as 5 or 530. Like that's what, at some point, in part two of this podcast, I'm going to get to the first time I met Jamel. After we were in college, we played together in Phoenix and the ABA. And it's always interesting. I didn't know what our nickname was until I had to look up a couple of things about about five.

But anyway, he introduced himself as five, five 30. And you'll hear why he's known as five 30. So he was an incredible player more than anything. an unbelievable person in terms of his ability to overcome just a kind of a tormented lifestyle when he was a kid. So I can't wait to get to that. At the moment of this recording, the Lakers are out of the playoffs, the Clippers are down 01 after an incredible come from behind series victory against the Dallas Mavericks. The nets are up two games and none on the nets. and the Hawks as well as they've played.

They don't have DeAndre Hunter for the season. He underwent an MRI, which revealed a small tear of the lateral meniscus. He underwent surgery on the meniscus today, and he's out the rest of the season. So that's a bummer because he's incredibly versatile and a very talented kid, even if the one game they lost to the Knicks, he missed a bunch of shots he normally makes. So I just think that what's really, really interesting, really interesting, is that here we are, and we're talking about the Lakers. And because they lost in the first round, I think people will pick apart the decisions that

Rob Polinka made. And I don't agree with all of them. I thought Dennis Schroeder was an off-the-bench guy, not a starter. And I think that got exposed as the season went on, especially late in the season. But it's like we'll never know because they weren't healthy. What we do know is that as good as LeBron still is, he's an older version himself and any older athlete. Now he needs more help,

but there's fewer times in which they have their A stuff. It happens with Clayton Kershaw as a pitcher. That's like the easiest one to draw a parallel to. What does it mean heading forward? Heading forward, it means that they're going to continue to have to not only add more shooting and add more surrounding piece, they can score more points

because they were so focused on defense because they were a defensive champion last year. But I also think you're going to have to figure out if not only LeBron is willing to take a secondary role, maybe a tertiary role, and can he operate in an offense in which it doesn't solely focus around him having the basketball?

It's like they need a point guard, but will he allow anybody else to be a point guard? As for the Clippers, they could have won game one. I'm not as down on them as others are. I think they still have good matchups here. I think you've got to withstand a Donovan Mitchell 45 point barrage.

I think they can do that. I still like the clippers and I like Tylo's adjustments as the series went on in Dallas. And I think if that is his strength figuring out, you know, the tricks, if you will, to get in the right matchups, they should be in good shape in this series.

All right, let's get to Jamel Thomas. We'll talk about some of these series. We'll talk about playing in the NBA eventually. But first, I want to talk about his first falling in love with basketball. One of the all-time greats in the Big East, Providence College, Jamel Thomas. All right, Jamel Thomas joins us here in the all-ball pod. First, you're currently driving home from your son's practice. How old?

He's 10 years old. 10 years old is New York City Gouchos. You already have them with the Goucho? Yes. How different is it from when you were a kid? Well, to be honest, I didn't play when I was a kid. After he does, so we just put him out there for the capable of doing. Okay, so let's talk about that.

Your path was different, right? You're born in Brooklyn. What was your, what was your, what was the early days? Like your first sports memories were like what? Well, sport, my first sport for baseball at a early, 9, 10 years old. friends. I never really played organized, but I played in the street. I played that. And then when did you start hooping? I started hooping when I was 13. Like, you weren't even playing like pickup or playing rec basketball before 13?

Oh, to be honest, I kind of watched it a lot because it was right there in front of my face. Why? I never played it. Yeah. Like, I've seen it a lot, like, you know, my cousin stuff, I used to, 11 years old, I used to go to Henson. games and I didn't even play but but but but like why like New York City when I think in New York City I think of all players and then Steph was like like a legend very early on right and I just but why weren't you playing was you just didn't like it like oh well I was I was I was I was a I was a free kid um I'm not trying to brag about it or claim it or anything it's just you know my path was different um I didn't have book

for my parents growing up. So, you know, Steph had his brothers who played basketball. All of them played Division I basketball. So he was able to see that and follow that. So he had some type of motivation to do the sport. And unlike me, I didn't have that, you know, 13 years old with the help of my mentor, Mr. Liu, whom passed away back in 2007. But he was the guy that...

Your mom was murdered when you're four years old. What, how, and this is like, I'm guessing there was no therapy at the time. How did you deal with not having your parents? How did you deal with being on your own? Well, you know, I was just in the street. I was in a school kid, you know, I, you know, when I was young. So, you know, no, there's no way that you can deal with that type of trauma. Lucky thing that I didn't really hurt anyone severely because, you know,

there for you to become part of it. self-destruct and make things work. And I was on that verge. And, you know, it was something in me that was just going to be somebody other than this kid that's an orphaned kid or this kid that's a street kid that don't go to school. I wanted to be something else. You mentioned you were 13. Yeah. And you mentioned Mr. Liu.

How did it happen? How did the change happen? All right, one of the stuff He would after he finished, you know, playing bassist Big Tom Streetville I was selling drugs I was working for I grew like 60 You got really tall

Sure If I catch you over here Selling drugs again I'm gonna kill everybody over here And these guys are my friends If he meant it because I see him do A lot of dirt in the streets already Baseball

And you know how you throw the ball in the air You just swing with the bat Yeah So I was just working on that And then my mentor, he was on another basketball court that was close to the other basketball court. And he came over to me. And he was like, son, what you want to do? What you want to play basketball or baseball?

And I was just like, I was just trying to stay out of trouble. I was like, man, I don't know what I want to do. And then goes with you. See if you like it. Okay. What about school? Like, how do you go from? Because, like, I had T.J.

Hushmanzat on this, you know, and he said, like, he was about that age. And his mom was strung out and he was in Oklahoma City. And he learned to start selling drugs. And he never really figured out the school thing until he got to junior college. You figured out what? High school at Lincoln? Yeah, I figured out at Lincoln. You know, my story is pretty deep.

I have to give credit to a lot of teachers, even though when I was self-destructuring that I needed. And all the teachers there from my math teachers to my English teacher, to my Spanish teachers and even the principal. Helping me emotionally with helping me and pushing me and making sure I get back to my English teacher. My English teacher, whom became my... She told me I was on a verge of failing.

And she said, listen, you're going to fail the class. You never come to class, right? I know you have to all the potential in the world. But every time you come to class, you always sit in the back, and you sit on top of your desk. I can't fit under... If you pick one of these books, so she had some... books. So she had some books. She had like the Great Gatsby. She had a magic Johnson book and it was

another book. She said if you if you read one of these books and do a book, she had a meeting with my, had a meeting with her. She can take me in into a house with her husband to help me out in general. So that's the Bravermans, right? The Bravermans, yes. So they, the Bravements take you in. So now what's, you, you haven't had. structure really that much in your life, right? So you're in high school and how did you react? What was their structure like? Like, what was your day like? The structure, well, she laid the, she laid down the, um, she said, no television. I only got 30 minutes and I watched Martin Lawrence during that 30 minutes of television. I wouldn't even watch

a bull. What's up, fam? Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano and our podcast Point Game is about defining the odds. Like LeBron heading into the playoffs without Luca and Austin Reed. And finding ways to win no matter what. He's the smartest player to ever play the game. His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before. And he knows. Without Luca and Austin Reeves, I got to manipulate the game. We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the playoffs.

I think Joker's going to be exhausted this series because when they don't have Rudy in the lineup, he has to really guard guys like Nas Reid. He has to guard Julius Randall. And then he has to give us everything he gives us on the night-to-night basis on offense. And when IT's friends, stop by like Quentin Richardson, we dive into some playoff history too.

Steve Nash will get that thing. That man, hell get the flying. He run up the court, licking his fingers, why he got the ball. Like, after you go through a training camp with that Isaiah, you figure it out real quick. Get your ass up and down the court, and you're going to get the ball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Hey, it's Edwin Castro, also known as Castro 1021. And I'm Kunky. His best friend and business manager. And we've got a new show called The 1021 podcast. I'm taking you behind the scenes on how I became one of Twitch's most popular streamers.

We also love sports. And with the World Cup right around the corner, we'll be breaking down the biggest storylines ahead of the big tournament here in the USA. Listen to the 1021 podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Will Ferrell's Big Money Players and IHeart Podcast presents soccer moms. So I'm Leanne. Yeah.

This is my best friend Janet. Hey. And we have been joined at the hips since high school. Absolutely. Now a redacted amount of years later, we're still joined at the hip. Just a little bit bigger hips. Wider. This is a podcast.

We're recording it as we tailgate our youth soccer games in the back of my Honda Odyssey. With all the snacks and drink. Sidebar. Why did you get hard seltzer instead of beer? Well, they had a bogo. Well, then you got it. Do you want a white collar or something? Here, just a second.

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Oh. Oh. Listen to soccer moms on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Deanna Maria Riva, actress, mother, lover, and a Gen X woman walking through life one hot flash and hormonal crying jag at a time. You ladies know what I mean. I'll bet you a perimenopausal chin here you do. So let's talk about it. Join me on my new podcast.

How hard can it be with Deanna Maria Riva, where I call on my GenX squads from Ohio to Hollywood as we navigate Midlife's most fantastic BS. All of a sudden, I'd had... hangingness happening on my I was like, what the hell is that? I was married when I had her, so I didn't even consider how empty that nest was going to be.

Mood swings, night sweats, fupas, sex drive, wait, what sex? Dating at 45, how can it be getting naked at 50 with the new guy. That one's kind of hard. Well, that's lighting. They say we can't polish a turd, but we're sure going to try. So let's get blunt with laughs, tears, or tears of laughter

and dive into it unfiltered and unbothered and ask, how hard can it be? I cannot believe I'm about to say this out loud in public. Listen to How Heart Can It Be with Diana Maria Riva as part of my Cultur Podcast Network available on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. ...name or Nick's game or whatever. I use my 30 minutes to watch Martin Lawrence.

She said, when you get home from school, you need to eat, you can come down to eat, and after that, you go back up to your room and you finish your work. And when you finish her work, that's when you get to 30 minutes. So I have to finish my work before 8 o'clock. And she said, 9.30, everything lights is out. And we get up at, he was a teacher at the school and she had to get there early. What time had you been going to bed before that? My name is 5.30, Doug.

I knew the answer, but that was it. Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in the nation. Catch all of our shows at foxsportsradio.com. And within the IHard Radio app, search FSR to listen live. When was the last time you seriously considered your dream? Did something never thought you would do. How about live the van life in a totally customized Mercedes-Benz Sprinter van? You could tour the country, whatever you want to dream up.

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and start exploring at Discovertheforest.org, brought to you by the United States Forest Service and the Ad Council. So when you first, you move in, you have people that support you, but you have these rules for, hey, 945, 9.30, you got to have the lights out. What was your, like,

it's not like right away, you were like, okay, I'm going, like, what was that first year like? Well, couldn't sleep with, off the windows and seeing if anybody coming to get me or anything. So, you know, one to three o'clock in the morning and getting up at, um. I mean, obviously, like, look, your, your mom's boyfriend, shoot your mom. Your aunt's husband is more like emotionally abusive.

He's in and out of jail. So, like, you, you've got to have, like, some trust issues, right? Like, you hadn't been in this. Did you like it? Did you, like, I'm sure there were dudes that, that want to know what was up. what happened to you, what was the process like of you embracing the stability of a real home? Well, you know, when I grew up at, it was in a three-bedroom apartment. It was 10 of us in a three-bedroom apartment.

So one of the things I really appreciated what the problem is I have my own room. I have my own space because, you know, schoolwork is nothing. You know, anybody can do schoolwork. You need the time, the space, you need the to be able to get it done. So that was a big thing for me because even when I wanted to do good when I was home after I started playing basketball, it was always a distraction like when I'm doing my schoolwork in the house. It could be arguing and it could be, you know, my brothers and sisters are fighting.

It could be something that be meant is just say like, you know, you know what fuck this shit I'm just leaving the house and then you just go outside and just you do absolutely nothing but you just leave the house and you just you know you don't do what you're supposed to be doing and um and what the problem is done for me no did i trust them in the first couple weeks no but the way she treated me was so regular oh this this lady loves me even if i like we had arguments in the beginning but she was my mom and then had argument it would carry over for like, you know, days and days. The argument or school or whatever,

and we'll start just talking about it. So when he played at Lincoln or because he played at Lincoln and when he played at Yukon, it took about two weeks. It was actually kind of quick because I had some times, like understood that it was a blessing. But yes, we had our wars. We went back and forth and I'm not going to say,

like, I stayed there the whole time. It was times that we got into big arguments. Just to leave the house and go back to Coney Allen. And then I understood that it was love that in a rockaway than in Kony. From the beginning, she always told me that my door is always open if you leave and if you want to come back. We're getting to argument, I'll leave and then I'll come back. I'll leave and then I'll come back. Okay, so now you're in high school.

How good were you? Really good. But you started playing so late. Like, you start playing. Yeah. I'm going to tell you how good I was because, uh, my, my, see, You know, you can tell right now if your son is good or not or whoever he's playing with, right? You can tell that potential because we're older.

We've been through the wards. We know how kids panned out, right? So who trained us on three, two other kids from the park playing with me. We're playing three on three, four court. We're going to ball up court and, you know, making like Magic Johnson passes or finishing, you know, working with me. Steph Brothers started working with me. He's like, this motherfucker is a better point of God, this stuff at the time. Probably said it jokingly.

And me getting to high school, I didn't play my freshman year at all. I played probably like a minute and 30 seconds the whole year. I became, I really knew I became good is when Lincoln, we were scouting for Grady and we were playing against Derek. Of course. Yes, of course. I know you're a basketball junkie. was on the other squad, the second unit.

So coach told me to play like Derek Brown. And he said, Jamel, this is what I want you to do. I want you to dribble. I want you to shoot. I want you to rebound. I want you to do everything out there that Derek Brown does. And once he gave me that green light in practice, I was killing the dude shocker ship that was on our team because he played the five.

He didn't know how to defend the guard. So I'm just going by him and just doing whatever I. I wanted to do to him in practice. And then coach, you know, my coach was, holy shit, shocker. You can't guard Jamel Thomas? What the hell you think Derrell Brown is going to do to you tomorrow? So ever since then, it was like, it just, it gave me confidence from right then and there. And that was the first game I played my freshman year.

I came down, got a rebound, past the ball of Steph, spot up in the corner, shot the three, boom. and that was the only time I played. And then after, you know, all the scenes, I had to play me, he had to start me. I was a mitch match every five that I had to go against. Defend that at the time. Meanwhile, like you're playing with Steph,

and Steph was the guy that year, right? He became, like, everyone knew, new, new, new step. What was your guy's relationship like while you were getting better and becoming a star in your own right, and he was on this kind of super-starting path? Oh, but I mean, Steph was like, in high school, I was saying high school, he was 100% supportive. Like, you know, especially with the AAU team called the Bronco, C division of AAU program in Virginia. And this kid is ridiculous.

So word was getting back that, you know, you know, this kid, like, so when Steph heard that, got together and they said, well, you're coming with us to the gauchos. Playing with the galchos with Steph. Like, he was like, you know, he was bringing a tournament that he played in in New York, like, go to the, hoops or whatever, I was there right with him. Five-star, you know what I'm saying? I was right there. That goucher, who was on that goucher's team here last year? You, Sham God?

Oh, me. Yeah, me, Shamgard, Charlton Clark, Eric Harris, Hishimo Evans, Adney. Larry Adney, yeah, he's with a blunt, played a few games with us. I remember, didn't you guys lose to, like, didn't you guys lose to, like, I'm going to say, like, a Dallas team or something in Vegas. I just remember that there was like no way anyone was going to beat you. And you guys played like an early morning game against the Dallas team and got beat. Yes.

Yes. And that was Macya Bastian team, right? Yes. Yep. That was the team. So I'll give you the other side to it, right? Here's what everybody said about like the gout checks. Don't play them at night.

if you can play them in the morning, you got a shot. If you play them in night on the main court, you got no shot. Yeah. The only person that got some rest was probably Steph. He was the only professional that was on the team that year. Why did you choose Providence? That game against, when we played against Dallas. Yeah.

That's when Bobby Gonzalez, who recruited. me. That's when he was like, that's when they gave me the offer. Because sometimes like, like, I can hang out late and do whatever at night and I can wake up because my body was kind of accustomed to it. Sure. Right. That game, I just, I was, I was doing the same thing, like, like, rebelling, bringing the ball of court and making certain passes, hitting certain shots. Like, I played a totally different way with the gauchos than at Lincoln. I put with the gauchos. The reason why I chose Providence is because you know, every school in the country that was recruiting Steph to get Steph.

It was Georgia Tech, UCLA, every school. It was like, well, we'll throw him in there too if you come, you know, basically. Yeah. So that wasn't going to work, right? I was like, no, you need to get out of Steph Shadow and do your own thing. And, you know, my parents, it bowled down to two. I had UMass that want to recruit me. They wanted me take.

Oh, he's not off that Lincoln. He's a, he's a legit final. What's the name? Bill Baino. Yeah, Bill Baino, yeah. Then I narrowed down to two schools. So I went on my college visit, and, you know, my parents, you know, they were heavily involved. So my host was Charles Jones.

So, you know, we're Brooklyn guys, you know, what we like to do. So he, and then at night, and then he showed me around campus, and then I just had a ball. A great time. I thought I was in Coney Allen with a bunch of intellectual people. I'm going to Rutgers University. They was like, oh, okay, all right, that's fine. Well, we don't want to make a decision yet. Let's try Providence.

Let's take an official. Take another official providence. You know, it's free if you're flying there. So I was like, all right, but I'm going to Rutgers. So I took my, and Jason Murdoch, he takes me to the white, you know, and all that, you know, they give you, they show you your jersey, your sneakers and all that. They try, nah, this, this is not it. You know, they had, well, you got to look at,

And then you got to look at Providence where they live at per se, but a place where you can focus, right? So where you think you'll be your most successful off the court? I think it'd be smart so you can be successful off the court. We have all the faith in you that you're going to do well on the court. But you're in college now and you're going to be by yourself. You don't have no tutors. You don't have all these people to help you and nurture you. So you're going to be on your own decision to go to Providence.

Okay. So you go from like, man, this is the spot. It's close enough to home to this other place that feels foreign. But now, Shamgago is there too. What do you remember when you, but when you, so, all right, you're going back. When you first show up, what was it like? Well, I was the hook for a lot. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano, and our podcast point game is about defining the odds. Like LeBron heading into the playoffs without Luca and Austin Reed. and finding ways to win no matter what. He's the smartest player to ever play the game. His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before. And he knows. Without Luca and Austin Reeves, I got to manipulate the game.

We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the playoffs. I think Joker's going to be exhausted this series because when they don't have Rudy in the lineup, he has to really guard guys like Nas Reid. He has to guard Julius Randall. And then he has to give us everything he gives us on the night-to-night basis on offense. And when IT's friends, stop by like Quentin Richardson, we dive into some playoff history too.

Steve Nash will get that thing. That man, hell get the flying. He running up the court, licking his fingers while he got the ball. Like, after you go through a training camp with that, Isaiah, you figure it out real quick. Get your ass up and down the court, and you're going to get the ball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, it's Edwin Castro, also known as Castro 1021. And I'm Conky.

best friend and business manager. And we've got a new show called The 1021 podcast. I'm taking you behind the scenes on how I became one of Twitch's most popular streamers. We also love sports. And with the World Cup right around the corner, we'll be breaking down the biggest storylines ahead of the big tournament here in the USA. Listen to the 1021 podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Hey, I'm Deanna Maria Riva, actress, mother, lover, and a Gen X woman walking through life one hot flash and hormonal crime jag at a time. You ladies know what I mean. I'll bet you a parameda apostle chin here you do. So let's talk about it. Join me on my new podcast. How hard can it be with Deanna Maria Riva, where I call on my Gen X squads from Ohio to Hollywood as we navigate midlife's most fantastic BS. All of a sudden, I'd had hanginess happening on my own. I was like, what the hell is that?

was married when I had her, so I didn't even consider how empty that nest was going to be. Mood swings, night sweats, fupas, sex drive. Wait, what sex? Dating at 45. How high can it be? Getting naked at 50 with the new guy. That one's kind of hard, well, that's lighting. They say we can't polish a turd, but we're sure going to try. So let's get blunt with laughs, tears or tears of laughter, and dive into it, unfiltered and unbothered and ask, how hard can it be? I cannot believe I'm about to say this out loud in public. To How Hard Can It Be with Diana Maria Riva as part of My Cultura Podcast Network

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I'm just going to probably They're like, where are you going? I'm going to. And it was just like that, you know, just like some neighborhood stuff. Like you're going over there to the club, I'm going too. That second year you went on the Elite 8 run

and what was what people don't remember about that team was you guys, you went small before playing a small was cool, right? Like you had Garcent, Ruben was like a, he was like your five, but he was basically a four. and then you had Austin who could, you know, play outside the three.

And you guys just open up the lane for you and for God. And it was, that was what I remember about that team. Was that how it was, like going into the year? Was that the plan? Or that just kind of happened over time and the coaches figured it out? Yeah, that definitely happened over time. And, you know, we're a coachable kid like myself, Sham, quite right. you know, they're just hoop.

You know what I'm saying? You know how it is, Doug. You make a mistake and you got in your head. Like, if I made the turn out, I'm going to try to go get the still. Like, the tournament, he was letting us do that because he didn't have no choice. Like, he can't just take everybody out because, you know, it's like, come on. Like, coach, like, you know, you get this power thing. But during the season, he was, it was too much control.

Like, you do this, you do that. Dogs came out. And then, you know, and sham. And it was easy to find first game. It was like, Austin comes, like he hits his first,

like three shots and then, like, he hot. And we just started feeding him. I think Austin had about like 40. And those, a lot of those games wasn't a Ruben Goss's game.

Right? The Ruben Gorson game was, when we played Duke, because they were kind of small. Steve Wojahowski, Trazen Lane, and they were kind of small. So we matched their height,

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No, no, no. No, we had, and we grew up with that type of pressure. Like, we're going to break that, like, easy. Like, we understand the power of the ball fake and the press. Like, I could get the whole defense to shift one way just by a ball fake and then pass it. What, uh, why didn't you leave early? I wasn't, I wasn't really ready. Was ready mentally.

But, but that, that sounds, I mean, like, look, that today that's not like, wow. But most guys aren't ready mentally, emotionally, even if they are ready physically, they still go. shame got left, right? Why did you stay? I mean, you go on a run, you're shooting a high percentage from three, right? And you know, people were like, well, you don't go back to school

because then they'll pick you apart. I'm just wondering, was it the Brabans that were telling you that? Did you know inside yourself you're not ready for all that? Oh, yeah, well, you know, they played a major role in that degree, degree, degree, degree, degree, degree.

I know I definitely wasn't, I wasn't even think about, to be honest, I like you, Doug, you know what I'm saying? You're a big-eat-y-y-y-goy and then you went off and left us. The staff got drafted in 96. I was at the draft. I saw the energy.

I saw the work out that he, the work that he was putting in to get there. And then when it happened, I'm like, oh, this shit really can happen because we had a bunch of ballplayers from my neighbor and the Coney Island that were very good, that were close to, you know, making it, but they just didn't make it because maybe one had a baby, one got shot or one didn't finish. school and dropped out. It was a whole bunch of reasons why, whatever, or even though they put the work in. So when Steph did it, we can actually do it because he'd done it and I

saw it. So that summer in 96, I put in a lot of work and I had the mentality that I was going to leave after my sophomore year, no matter what the problem to say or anything. Right. So, 22 and 11,

and I was just being a dog, you know, I was just being really aggressive. When I got when we got back to Providence after that tournament, I'll let you, you know, you'll be the guy, but right now you got to pass the ball to the scene. He said I've had to pass the ball to Austin. He just said, I have to pass the ball to Austin. I blew up, like just blew up. Like, we just went back. And sometimes when you, I go, I go back to that. I protect me, so I got to protect myself right here and there in this situation. And that's what I've done. And then, the next game I got suspended because I felt like I was protecting myself.

But Coach Gillen felt like since then I went from averaging 22 and 11. My junior year, so I got in trouble in Notre Dame, right? So I'd transfer. I got to Oklahoma State. My junior year, I'd started three years. So I was averaging like 13 and 10. And we play Florida Atlantic. We played out in Hawaii.

We won his tournament. and I play good. Came back, we played TCU. They had Lee Nailon. We beat them. And we're ranked like six in the country. And we play Florida Atlantic. And we have like a former player who's like grad assistant for your Brooks Thompson,

God rest his soul, right? He died a couple years ago. And Brooks, they just come out of the league and they let Brooks do the scatterpoint. And so he's like, these guys are so shitty. if you don't beat him by 30. And we used to have, coach used to have these things where he'd have like,

okay, you must, we must shoot above 50, they must shoot below 40, they must be held below 60, we must score above 70. Like, and if you hit all of these, there's no practice tomorrow. If not, I'll see you at 7 a.m.

Like, there wasn't even any discussion about it, right? So he's like, fuck coach's rules. If you don't smoke them, run them out of the gym, I do not respect you. You cannot wear these. form. That's like that was the scatter report. So we get this game and all they're doing their

plan, we had only four guards eligible because you remember Glennon Alexander. So Glennon had transferred him from Arkansas, in McDonald's All-American from Arkansas, but he wasn't eligible for a couple games. So we have a big guy out there, a big 6-10 dude, and they're just playing like all 6-4, 6-5 and below dudes. When I won't play zone, and they're just running a little flex. And then when they get it to a big guy, go one four flat and just doing us, right, doing our big guy. And so we end up losing to them on some crazy shit. And I got a technical foul. And we lost by one on a crazy play.

But I had like eight and 18 assists. And like, and I had to sit for like five or six minutes because I got a T. Then we play UCLA and I get two T's and I get thrown out. And so I got bench. So I went that year, this is where I feel you. I actually led the country and assists. and I played the fewest minutes per game of my entire career, like 26 minutes a game because like I went through eight games where I barely played.

Like I was buried up in the doghouse. And so then you're like, wait, should I even come back here? Should I even be here? Should I go and make money playing pro? Right. Like all that stuff is spinning through your head. So I do think, but then you did come back after the late.

And now you just started, started balling out. Was he true to his work? Did you get to have the ball in your hands as you got older? Well, see, Coach Gillen, I know he was a powerful guy because every summer he was with the USA team. Yeah. Right? What the college players or whatever?

I think NBA players too, yeah. Yeah. And his promise was when you become a senior, I'll do the same thing for you. That was his promise. So after my junior, he left and went to Virginia. So I didn't respect him as a man anymore for his word.

But he was telling me that, you know, I got to take care of my family, you know. I'm like, okay, but a man has his word. That's all he has. Right. And I've been a young adult for a long time. And that's where we had our disagreement. and, you know, when he did leave, I said a good speech on his behalf and, you know, how he was a, you know, a mentor and he was a good coach or whatever. But ever since then, I didn't really want to be, have no part with him because he wasn't a man of his word.

After he took the ball out of my hand, because you're saying you have to feed your family. when I was out there trying to be a dog to feed mine. Yes. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. And that's what happened. I mean, I love Coach Gilling to this day. But, you know, I would never forget that.

All right. So now you're like twisting in the wind. Tim Wells comes in. And like you painting the picture. You're somebody who you've been a young adult for a long time. You're trying to read people. people. Now you don't trust anybody because the coach you said, hey, wait to your senior year, he bounces. What was it like for Tim Wilson? Well, Tim,

Tim set the tone from the beginning. He let me know what it was going to be and he demonstrated it all the way to the T and that was it. Like Tim was a good guy. I love Tim Wilson. Tim was a good guy. What was that like? What was it like your senior year considering, you know, your sophomore year, you guys had that run, God leave, right? And I know how it is like you're putting pressure on yourself because you think every bucket is more money. Every great performance is more money. But that's, there's a lot of pressure in that. Was it enjoyable to be the dude your senior year? Yeah, of course. I mean, I, I don't, I, I never looked at basketball as pressure. Like, I grew up in pressure. Like, I grew up with her mom and dad. Like,

basketball was just, it was an activity for me to not think about that, the stuff that I grew up with. So I never thought about pressure on the court. I was just out there having fun. And Coach Wells, he did his best of his ability to make sure that we had fun. He came over like a New York City playing style, like pressing, like every, after every make, you know, which was a lot of fun. So it wasn't, it wasn't no pressure at all.

So 1999 you finish. Did you get your degree? Absolutely. What, what do you remember about that? My degree. About getting it, about the moment where you're like, you know, like, I'm sure the, the problem is there, you know, everybody's around. You're like, I don't know, in the moment, if you realize it, like how monumental, every statistic that you, will look at says that from your home, from your background, and your upbringing, the likelihood of you

getting a college degree is the smallest percentage, right? And you overcame all those obstacles to not only hoop and hoop well, but also get a degree. Did you, like when you, was it special to you at all when you got it? I know it was special to them because they knew what you'd gone through. At the time, did it matter, D. Of course it mattered. It mattered. It mattered. But, At the time, I really didn't know how big it was, even though I didn't have a family member that I grew up with. I had a degree. So I never saw the paper until I got, you know, with the Brabormans.

But I was just going through a lot. And the people in the audience made me realize how big it was. Like, you know, Coach Gillen came down for Virginia. He popped up. I was like, oh, shit. Like my mentor came. And it was a lot of people that I didn't. didn't know that I was going to come to this, you know, my, um, my graduation. And that's when I

realized like, wow, this is, this is really a huge thing. You know what I'm saying? And once I, when I graduated, the problem's like, you got that paper. That's the most important paper you need. So, you know me? I'm thinking about like, now, when is these workouts? Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Workouts? Yeah, I'm ready for that. Late first, early second. No. Okay, so, so I want to end part one on this. I want to do another one on your pro career and your clothing line and everything else. If you have time, another time in the very near future. But draft night is, I mean, you were a great college player. And all and and your, your brother, Bassy, is a, But top is a lottery pick. Steph is the fourth pick. God is picked, right?

There's just, I'm, so did you know you wouldn't get drafted? Like, what was the thinking going into it? We have, we have to do a part two of this. Yes. Yes. So you want to start part two with that? Yes, we're going to start with that. Okay.

That's a big shit right there, Doug. Okay. Digging deep, Doug. If you're okay with it, that's going to be great shit. So this is a good, like, little teaser for it. that cool? Yep, absolutely. All right. Before we go, your clothing line for people who haven't seen it, okay, there is all your gear, your logo is it's like a man holding a basketball behind his back and reaching out to a kid.

What is that symbol? It symbolize. Imagine you as an adult can tell yourself as a a kid after all the things that you've been through, right? I don't worry about nothing. I got you back. So that's what it symbolizes. Is that, is, is,

is that all of your mentors? Or is that one person specifically? No. Is that what you want to be for your kid? Like, who, who is the image there that you see? The image, the,

the image is myself as an adult and myself as a little boy. That little boy is a hurting kid right there. He lost his, his mom, he never met his dad. He has to, you know, go live in a dysfunctional house. Like, so everything, the world was against him. He was broken. This kid was broken.

So imagine as yourself, as an successful individual, you can tell your younger self that's going to have the craziest path that you can ever imagine that don't worry about it. I got your back. Everything will be okay. And yes, and that's through all the mentoring that I had and the Brabamans, you know, you know, my adoptive mind, you know, even my community.

Everybody played a role in me becoming a man. So that's the image. How can somebody get a hold of your gear? Go to Jamel, J-A-M-E-L-N-Y.com, and the website is laid out, and we're about to come out a new collection in a couple of weeks. That's great. All right, listen, let's schedule part two. Yep.

Anytime you want. And just know we're going, if you think that's deep, we're going deeper. Okay. We're going deeper. I'm here for it. My man. I appreciate your time. All right.

Thanks, Doug. That was great. I'm sure you can't wait until part two. Neither can I. So I could ramble on and on about other stuff. Let's just pack that thing in after this one take. Have you noticed that Kevin Durant's the best player in basketball? Yeah, I noticed it three or four years ago.

I know that you could make the argument. LeBron has been more valuable to his team over those past three or four years. And, of course, KD missed all of last season and, you know, both parts of last season. And then missed a bunch of time now. He's the best player on the planet. I think that man was passed when they first played the Cavs, his first year at Golden State. In the second half of those games, LeBron was guarding him and he was guarding the Bronn, and he was the better player, and yes, his team won.

But I guess now if you tear dudes up in the playoffs, people start to figure it out. Be sure to tune in and listen to the Doug Gottlieb show daily, 36 Eastern, 12 to 3-3 Pacific. You can listen to the iHeartRadio app. You can download the podcast of that as well. I'm Doug Gottlieb, and this is all ball. Get right to the romance and find the way to wow this valentines

with 1-800flowers.com. From classic roses and bouquets to decadent chocolate-covered berries, gourmet treats and more. Surprise your Valentine with 1800flowers.com. Right now, get the 18-stem Enchanted Rose Medley for $3999 or upgrade to 24 red roses for $10 more. Go to 1-800flowers.com slash tune-in. That's 1-800flowers.com slash tune in. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman, help make you funnier.

This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends

on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm CJ Toledano. It's our favorite time of the year on our podcast point game, the playoffs. We're digging into the biggest surprises of the season. And I'm looking back on some of my greatest playoff moments.

If we didn't talk ever again, I was harmed. You just understood. That's how personal it got. Wow. Then after that game seven, Marquis come in to, he's like, you know, I love you, dog. You know, it's all love. This was just playoffs. This was just basketball.

So listen to Point Game on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Therapy is fantastic. But once again, it does not have a monopoly on healing. That's why I create the resources and that's why I create the community because I really just want you to have more access. On the podcast cultivating her space, Dr. Dom and Terry Lomax create a space where black women can show up fully and be heard. It's tough because we're suppressing our emotions and so many of us are like high achieving individuals.

Listen to cultivating her space on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. The story I've told myself can then shape my behavior and that can lead me to sabotage the possibility. of connection. This mental health awareness month, tune into the podcast deeply well with Debbie Brown if you've been searching for a soft place to land while doing the work to become whole.

This podcast is for you to hear more. Listen to deeply well with Debbie Brown from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the IHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.