The Herd with Colin Cowherd - All Ball - LeBron's Respect Quest; Former Lakers/Loyola Marymount HC Paul Westhead on Hank Gathers, Rookie Magic, Kareem, Run 'N Gun Mindset

Episode Date: October 15, 2020

In this episode, Doug explains why he thinks LeBron is punching down by caring about people who still don't respect him, and is joined by NBA Champion and former Loyola Marymount Head Coach Paul Westhead to discuss the tragic death of Hank Gathers, his revolutionary run 'n gun philosophy, transitioning to the WNBA, rookie Magic's final heroics, how he ended up playing center in the Finals, establishing a relationship with Kareem, and his new book The Speed Game. Make sure you download, rate and subscribe here to get the latest All Ball Podcasts! Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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That's 1,800flowers.com slash tune in. Hey, what up? Welcome in. I'm Doug Gottlieb, and this is the all-new all-ball. We took a slight diversion with our last episode. Lil Wayne joined us. It was awesome. You can still download and listen to that one. we have a great special guest this week. We're in this episode. Start pumping out multiple episodes per week, hopefully.

Our guest this week is Paul Westhead. Now, Paul Westhead, of course, legendary coach led the Lakers to an NBA title. He led Loyal and Merrimount to, was three NCAA tournaments, including an elite eight, famously coached Bo Kimball and Hank Gathers. Also, Jeff Fryer and Tom Peabot.

a bunch of other dudes. But so we'll talk to him about the speed game. That's his new book, and it talks about teaching guys, teams to play fast. I think you'll really, really enjoy that interview. Let me start, though, as we're a couple days removed from the NBA finals and the NBA championship. And I did hear LeBron James say, I want some respect. And I just, I don't know.

I think he's great. what happens when in our world now of sports is either somebody's the best or you're a hater you're like all right like many parts of his game i i haven't necessarily loved some he's improved some he hasn't right like that post game that gave him the fadeaway jump shot that's kind of disappeared he doesn't really have a middle game he's developed a stepback jump shot and he's obviously developed into being a more than capable open three-point shooter. He's improved his shooting. But like, look, this is like, oh, well, Cindy Crawford has a mole, right?

You're talking about a word on a supermodel. LeBron James is an incredible player. It doesn't move as well defensively throughout the entire game or in back-to-back games, but can clearly really, really defend and can dominate a game. I have no, I'm not going to pick a part. his game in any way. My whole thing with Jordan is that Jordan was a sheer force of will. He had to find a way to win and once he found it figured out how to win, there was literally no stopping him. I know he, I saw

when he lost to the Orlando magically, he lost to basketball and he wasn't sharp. He didn't look like a good ball handler. And I understand that players, I do think, have more well-rounded skill set bases now. But the game is very different. It's much less physical. There's no power forwards. Sometimes there's no centers in the game. So instead of comparing eras, I would just tell you that for his era,

I felt like Jordan was more thoroughly and completely dominant. There was no discussion over who the best player in the game is. And I think if we were honest, we would say that LeBron didn't go against the full field as Durant was hurt. Steph and Clay weren't in it. They had both been hurt this year.

And, you know, he never had to face off with Janus, although Janus is not nearly close in terms of, you know, completely refined. They got an incredibly favorable matchup along the way. They even faced Kauai, who has done a great job on LeBron in the past. So with all that in mind, I'm not taking shots of LeBron. What I don't love is the, why would you ever have a need for respect?

You know, who are we trolling? Why does it matter? This is the real mistake that LeBron makes, is dignifying anybody he feels like is disrespectful to his level of success. That's punching down. I want some respect. Like the only people you think are disrespecting you are people whose opinions shouldn't matter. And look, there's plenty of former players that opinions I think do matter that would prefer Jordan or their era to LeBron.

And maybe that's what he's talking about. But when you say respect, it feels like you're giving credibility to teach. TV shows and radio shows. Even mine, and I'm very reasonable. Like, people forget that in the early 80s, it was Larry Bird, Matt Johnson, save the league. They deserve to be in any discussion of the top five players in the modern history of the game.

So too does Michael Jordan. So too does LeBron James. And then you got to go, okay, do we do Tim Duncan, who won all those titles? Do we do Kobe Bryant, who had his, won all his titles? Like, what do we do? I don't know.

All I can tell you is that if somebody wants to put me in a list, of the two best players in the history of the sport or the 10 best players in the history of the sport, I think that's pretty respectful. And I think asking for respect feels like some unneeded insecurity being outed that he clearly shouldn't have. Nonetheless, we should respect LeBron James. Like the four NBA titles are special. I know we can't compare because no superstar players ever bounced to three or actually four different teams, really, if you kind of get down to it. So this whole, no one's won three with three different, like, yeah, I got you.

I got you. But no, you know, Kareem bounced to two teams. Shaq bounced to a couple different teams, obviously, took two to the NBA finals, couldn't get the calves to the finals when he was a bit player with LeBron or the sons to the NBA finals. So that would be the only parallel there. And Shaq didn't take care of himself the way that LeBron took care of himself. But to me, the NBA playoffs and the bubble was about his leadership, his ability to get guys to totally buy into why they were there, and coaching.

I mean, think of how much the use of zones. Like Miami couldn't run a zone against the Lakers. They just sliced it and diced it, right? But they would not have gotten to the finals without the use of a zone. Oh, yeah, by the way, the Lakers and their adjustment for, you know, quick doubling James Hardin, getting it out of his hand before he could get into his game. Like, again, all of these. things are coaching and even getting the LeBron to buy into whatever the defensive schemes were

from the Lakers, that's coaching. Now, some of that is LeBron being coachable and then, you know, leading and getting ways to motivate Anthony Davis and all their whole team to play at a super high level defensively. But I kind of feel like coaching gets undersold in the reason the Lakers became the best team in the NBA won an NBA championship. Speaking of the Lakers, winning a championship, let's welcome him in. He's a longtime college and NBA and WNBA champion head coach.

Paul Westhead joins us. Be sure to catch the live edition of the Doug Gottlieb show weekdays at 3 p.m. Eastern, noon Pacific, on Fox Sports Radio and the IHeart Radio app. Let's welcome in. The book is called The Speed Game. My Fast Times in Basketball, Paul Westhead is, is my guest. There's a lot of places people could start,

but I want to start at a place that is really most interesting to me. So I apologize, Coach. If it's not where you want to begin. I had seen Hank Gathers and Bo Kempel play in a pickup game at Cal State Northridge the summer before Hank's final season together for you at Lowell, the Merrimount. And I was a kid from Orange County. I was kind of blown away by this kind of bigger than life mythical player.

And I had known how you guys had played and watched you guys in the NCAA tournament the two previous years. So then fast forward to the WCC tournament and Hank passes out. What now we're like 30 years later? What memories do you have of that night? Well, you know, I saw what everyone else saw that he made us. gigantic slam dunk turned to get back on defense got almost the half court and collapsed and and you know we we lost them i mean there's nothing that even 30 years later makes up for that it's it was a devastating time for me for the team for his family and there's something stuggs you just

sunk it over and that that happens to be one of them. Yeah, that's actually what's what most intrigues me because I went to the next game. It was at Long Beach Arena. You played the next state. And to this, to this day, I tell people my love for college basketball. I loved it before that. My dad took me to games, the NCAA tournaments. I loved it after that and I played in it. But the moment to me was you guys came running out and there's maroon everywhere and 44s everywhere. and then Bo gets fouled and all of a sudden he takes three dribbles with his right hand, switches to,

and then he makes it. He makes it. I mean, like out of a movie. Okay, so how, like, look,

this is a kid whose parents trusted you, right, he transfers over from USC and he trusts you, and the kids trust you with this style that, obviously he benefited greatly from, but it is frenetic, it is different, the level of conditioning it was upset.

seeing what you guys do, and I want to get into that. But you lose him there on the floor. How did you get that group together? What did you say? What did you do? How do you not, because you're dealing with your own emotions, I'm wondering how you did that. Yeah, well, you know, we had some hard times together immediately after Hank's passing. They had a ceremony at Loyal of Marymount and Gerson Marina where the whole campus was there.

and players and I were in attendance, and then we all flew back to Philadelphia for the official funeral at his mom's church. And then we returned, and the players came to me. To be honest, I said, like, if we just want to end it here, that's fine. And they said, no, we want to play.

and we want to play for Hank. So we started. We had a couple practices, went to Long Beach and launched. And just a little perspective, they played better than they ever did or could have. And it's kind of interesting. You can say they played for Hank,

but they were playing kind of for themselves. They wanted to, kind of get away from all of the sorrow. So playing was, you know, two hours of relief from the other parts of the day that you were in Greek. It wasn't how you always played when you won an NBA championship with the Lakers, but what you did took the world of basketball by absolute storm. And what I remember, like one of the names I remember had 72 at the half.

And I remember my dad who had coached Oregon State. He told me at the time after the game, he's like, you know what happens is everybody's scoring the first half. They feel great. And they're like, this is easy. And then they hit a wall in the second half. And they can't make a shot. It can't dribble.

They can't pass. They can't make a layup. And you guys end up conditioning kind of wins the day. So just the style of how you played later in your career, Louis Ler Merrimount, to the Denver Nuggets when you pressed and you ran. And how did you formulate that style in your mind or in a discussion with other coaches? Well, you know, through the 70s when I was at LaSalle University and through my professional careers with the Lakers and the Chicago Bulls and then ultimately Loyal of Merrimount, I was always a running coach. And I believed in the quick shot.

I believe it makes more sense to run the ball down and beat the defense. I mean, why play five on five when if you go fast enough, you can play five on three? I mean, it's a lot easier. So I did it for those reasons, but it wasn't until Loyola Marymount until Hank and Bo and Corey Gaines and Tom Peabody all showed up together, all transferring from different parts of. the of the country, all L.A. kids. Dad, I said, well, I'm going to run, but I have to do something to make the other team run. So that's when we employed a full court man-to-man press. And the press was good enough, or if you want to look at it another way, weak enough,

that you shot the ball in five seconds like we were shooting the ball in five seconds. So kind of accidentally, I created. the perfect scenario. We shoot in five, you shooting five. Do that for 40 minutes and see how you feel. Our players could sustain that. The opposition, many times we're doing well by halftime and then would ultimately crack. And our guys knew that was going to happen.

How do you condition for something like that, for that style of play? Yeah, I mean, we did some preseason things. you know, we did some running. We actually ran the sand dunes in Manhattan Beach. That it's really quite a challenge. My memory is, and I did it once myself, it's about, oh, it seems like a mile straight up, but it's probably a few hundred yards. But you have to run straight uphill in sand dunes and very difficult.

So our guys kind of saw that. as a challenge. We didn't do it every day. We did it a couple of times before October. But honestly, Doug, the way you get conditioned to run the fast break like we did and press, you have to do it every day in practice. I mean, I was not a stand-around coach who would stop play and give a two-minute explanation on how to defend the pick and roll. Those two minutes were 25 possessions wasted for me. So I played the speed game in every drill. And therefore the players, they were very acclimated to playing nonstop.

Yeah. And then you get, as you described, you get a team playing a style that your kids practice and play every day. And they play once or twice a year. And so they're kind of discombobulated. While it feels good to be that free and playing that fast, when you're not used to it, you start to make errors. You get out of it. You lose your wind.

And then you start teams also start playing their benches. And guys that didn't normally play are thrust in there. And now the strength of your depth ends up becoming effective. I mean, the teams get so tired. I don't know if we had a game where we played LSU with Shaquille, Neil. at a Nike clinic. And he said, you know, coach, we had one of our point guards, but about eight minutes ago in a game, he was so tired

that he was coming down with the ball and on purpose, threw it out of bounds to cause a turnover so he could get his catchout and relax. He would do anything. They would. Imagine an 11. Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games.

Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football,

or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations

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what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack.

So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Then you're finishing that sentence. Yes. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history.

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Do anything to stop the play. And we've had occasions with teams that did the old football trick where if a team's playing so fast in football, you fake an injury and you're on the ground and then three minutes later they start playing again. We had teams that would do that to us too. They would kind of fall down and act like they're hurt. And you know they weren't hurt

because a minute later after they came out, back in the game. But for our guys, it was enjoyable. I mean, they love playing fast. They love that speed game. They thrived on it. But I will say to you, Doug, and this is part of my book, there are a lot of coaching jobs that I had that it didn't work. Yeah. That players didn't accept it. That said, this is crazy. That said after 10 days of practice, Players only meeting. Like, we gotta get rid of this. Is someone you love in a relationship with somebody who tells the same joke over and over? Somebody who has the audacity to starfish the bed.

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Learn more at nhtsa.gov slash the right seat. Visit NHTSA. dot go. Slash the right seat. Brought to you by Nica and the ad council. So was that the nuggets? I mean, what didn't it work with that? No, not the Nuggets so much.

The Nuggets were an interesting group of guys. They were a depleted team. Alex English and everybody all left almost at the same time. So we had some young players and some leftovers and I say

leftovers. They're delightful leftovers. But I had Orlando Woolridge and Walter Davis, but they were well at the end of their career, like 35 going up. So we had a nice group of guys. So they really tried their darnness to keep this pace. They had trouble with the defense. See, I was foolish enough. That's why I got fired 14 out of 20 jobs. I was foolish enough to try and pull it off. The NBA guys, they might think about running the break. Deep down, players don't really want to run.

I'm sure you're a little bit aware of that. I mean, they'll steal the ball and make a fast break, but they do not want to go up and down, up and down, up and down in five seconds. It's against, you know, almost the union rule. And for sure, they don't want a full court press. and I can remember practicing and in games having Walter Davis and Orlando Woolridge being the back two of my press. But I wanted them to come forward when the ball was inbounded into the action, you know, get in the mix of things.

And they continually, when the ball got passed in, backed up. And I said, come on, Walter and, oh, and he said, coach, we're covering for you. We're covering for you, man. We don't want you to look bad. Well, they might have been doing that, but they really didn't want to run. That was the real bottom line. It's easier to back up on defense. And it's easier to take your time on offense than sprint on offense and play full court defense.

It's very difficult to do. It's fascinating. Okay. What was it like to go from coaching the world of the NBA? to then coaching women, both in college and professionally. What is that like in terms of not just your style, but the way in which you approach coaching your players? Yeah, I take the Phoenix Mercury job.

A couple of things happen, but when I go to start and sign the contract, I fly in from L.A. to Phoenix. And who's at the airport at the gate? waiting for me is Diana Tarasi. So I can only say to you, Doug, there's a difference. Of all the teams I coach, especially the pro teams, there weren't any players ever waiting for me at the airport.

Some of them took me to the airport. I have to say goodbye. So anyway, we go to the arena. It's going to be a little press conference. And she says to me, coach, I know what you do. and don't water anything down. Give us exactly what you have done to the men. We want you to treat us the same.

So I did. I mean, I deployed the press and run. And they gravitated to the fast break in a great manner. They were good. And they got better and better and better. the full court defense they tried but it they crumbled they and I was getting smarter enough to say well let's play a little half court zone once in a while but but they were terrific with the running game Doug I had a point guard a young lady named Kelly Miller I saw her first practice we got her

in a trade her first practice said Kelly I want you to push the ball as fast as you can on the dribble down the other end on offense every time. She said, I can do that. Well, every practice, every drill, every game, no matter what the score, Kelly Miller pushed that ball all the way down. So she was the engine that got everybody going. And Tarasi just fell in line and had Capi Pondexer who was a tough-minded girl from Chicago. Penny Taylor. I just had a good team.

We're jumping around, but I'll tell you one thing. I realized it took me 28 years after I won with the Lakers in the NBA. It took me 28 years to get another championship. And I realize you have to have very, very good players in order to win. Sometimes you can have good players and you still don't win. But if you have the very good ones like Tarasi and Magic Johnson, and Kareem Abdul-Jabbar. You got a good shot.

You mentioned Magic and Cream. Obviously, you win an NBA title, and that was when famously Magic had to start at center for you, right? Yes. Take me back before that game. What was the discussion like in the locker room between your coaches and with you and Magic? Well, it's funny you say that I'll start with when you said discussion with your coaches. I know today there's about 11 guys that get into his coaches' discussion.

and have input and analytics and all kinds of stuff. At that moment, there was me and one other coach. It happened to be Pat Riley. That's it. So there wasn't, you know, a big coach's meeting. The game five, which put us up three, two, Kareem Abduljabar was injured. He came back and played the last quarter with a severely injured ankle.

We finished the game one, and Kareem doesn't come on the trip with us. That's why we know we have to do something about it. So we're on a flight back to Philadelphia. We're flying commercial now, no private planes or anything. And I say to magic, I said, can you, could you play center? And he says, sure, no problem. He said, you know, I was a center in high school. And if you look at his background, it was only two years ago.

I mean, he played in high school. Then he played one year at Michigan State. And now here he is, you know, a rookie. So, you know, we have one little shoot-around practice and now we're going to play the game. I can still remember at game time we're about to go out. And my other, the biggest player in the starting lineup, Jim Jones, it's like seven-foot, big strong man, says to me, coach. So I'm jumping center, right? I said, no.

We talked about this. Magic's going to jump center. So, I mean, I did it kind of symbolically. Like, here is Kareem's replacement for this game. So we get our first possession. We throw the ball to magic. He just on his own goes down into the low post, takes a little sky hook, kind of jump hook. It goes in and then he does anything and everything, guard, forward, center, and he gets 42 points.

But we didn't really have many choices, Doug. And Magic smiled and said, yeah, I can do it. What was Cream like to coach? Yeah, Kareem was a special guy. It's interesting. When I arrived from Los Angeles, I went right to kind of a workout. practice and I was the assistant coach, Jack McKinney, my good friend was the head coach and I walked in and he said, yeah, we're working some guys out. He said, Karin's down the other end.

Why don't you go down and work out with him? So I walked down and I said hello and he kind of nodded. I think he said hello, but it wasn't a big conversation. And he said, why don't you feed me the ball? So I was like in the baseline area feeding him in the low post. I fed him. And I fed and about 20 passes. He made all 20 shots, threw the ball back to me after the 20 and said, thank you very much. And I said, oh, okay.

And I went back to McKinney. I said, hell, this is easy. You know, you just passed the guy to ball, and he makes shots, and it's over. Well, that was kind of the start of my relationship with Kareem. Since then, we really got along. I learned one thing, instinct. You don't want to try and tell Kareem something about basketball. You know,

you kind of maybe might suggest some things, but you're not going to say, hey, you know, I think if you drop your right foot, you'll be better. He would look at you like, no, no, no, no, no. So I learned that quick enough, and we got along very well. I think more because of limited things I said to him. rather than trying to overcoach him. And I do recall one time in training camp, and this is a tribute to him, it was our first practice, and I tried to impress the guys that we're going to really work hard this year,

so we had a two-hour practice. And then like a good old college coach, I said, okay, get on the lines, and we're going to run the lines. I mean, I don't know what you and your dad called it, but they call it suicide, you call it murder. you're going down and back, down and back, down and back. So we do a whole set and it's over.

And the players walk one way to the locker and I'm walking the other way. And Kareem comes over, puts his arm around me and he says, Paul, I don't do murder. And that was it. So back to my room, we're going to have another practice. That's when you could have two a days. And he was saying to me, I hope you're smart enough to know. Don't do them again. Yes.

And I never did. So to his credit, though, he did it the first time. And I don't know if you picked up one of it, but I did. He said to me, Paul. Yes. You know, he never called be coach. Oh, because to him, there's probably only one coach, right? It was only one coach.

It was John Wooden and the rest of the. I played for him. and I wish I would have had this conversation with you before I played for him because we, we butted heads a ton. And it was, it was an interesting experience. I find him to be a brilliant guy, but,

but, but he's, he is not the, and even though he's a great orator, he's not necessarily a great communicator as a coach, which are two very, very different things as, as you know.

I will say, after I got fired from the Lakers, yeah, and I went home, you know, devastated. And that's another whole series. I probably are the best, I'm the best coach in America to talk to coaches who get fired because I've been fired 14 times.

But the Lakers job was the first one. Right. And the first one, you take it personal. And I drive home to my wife and my kids and the kids are crying. My wife is upset. And I'm home maybe a half an hour. And the phone rings. This is before cell phones.

The phone rings, I pick it up. And it's Karim Abdul-Jabbar, who says, coach, I'm really sorry. You know, I wasn't involved with any of this. And I feel bad for you. So what happened? Was it, you got cross? No, no. Magic or what?

Oh, I have, I have no idea. I mean, there wasn't an issue in the game before I got fired with Magic Johnson and I. But I think ultimately magic and that incident created some of the issues, but I would not blame him. I think the management and Jerry Buss did what they felt they needed to do. And again, I was, I'm so, at that point, I'm so young, and all I know is based upon what I was told and read and said, Magic was really close to Jerry Buss, maybe too much more so than any player and owner have ever been at that point in time. Magic is very young and, you know, Jerry Buss tried to act what he thought was in his best interest. But it's kind of an interesting.

What is, I think getting fired is one thing. Obviously, if you coach long enough, it's going to happen to anybody. How hard is it, though, to watch their success and be like, wait, that was, it should have been me. That should have been me. And oh yeah, by the way, the way in which they played Showtime, your former assistant, Pat Riley, like, that's how he played. They played fast. So what is that like emotionally to process all these years later? As you move on, as I move to other jobs, as I moved to Chicago Bulls and the Denver Nuggets and different teams, I realize that when you get fired, it's not personal.

It's not like you're the bad guy. It's that... Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year.

Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media.

Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me, or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need. to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok.

Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a here. unpack what went down and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 was big to me, not just because of crack.

I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack, so I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now, so. Thank you for finishing that sentence. Yes. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. People. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history.

Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hard Way with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of Mental Health Awareness Month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, We get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing and we're still chasing it and we don't know when we've done enough.

Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth, or are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely.

And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Keer Gaines, we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, learn the hard way. Open your free, IHeartRadio app, search Learn the Hardway, and listen now. It's business. The team has made the decision that they need to try something different.

And you're the easy out. I did find in the NBA very difficult to get rid of players and their contracts. So if the ship isn't sailing the way you like, it's much easier to say goodbye to the captain of the ship and get someone new. So I have a much better perspective. And I will say this. Jerry Bus fired me. But Jerry Bus was the best owner I've ever had.

And I say that because he did anything he could to get players. You know, he, in fact, this was before the salary cap. We needed a rebounder after we won a championship and then the next year we faltered a little bit. And he said, who's the best free agent out there to help you? And I said, Mitch Cupcheck is the best free agent that we need. He said, I'll get. him. I said, well, you know, really? He said, I'll go to the vault. I will get Mitch Cup check for you. If that's what you want, I'll get them. So you can't do any better, especially if you're a

professional coach that have an owner that will do anything it takes to get the best player. I marvel at, you know, now his daughter, Jeannie, who my recollection is she was an amazing, maybe a 10, 11 year old, maybe a preteen girl, I'd see occasionally. She did the same thing. She went out and got Anthony Davis and therein lies the whole difference. You know, get the right player and put them in with what you have. And Davis and LeBron, nobody's going to beat them in seven games. No, nobody did.

Well, coach, I can't wait to read the entirety of the book. It's called The Speed Game. times in basketball. I know there's a ton of stories, a ton of basketball lore. I can only tell you as a guy who loves the sport, I got a chance to play. I love watching your teams play, your unique style. And I'm going to, I would argue with you to the death, though, I would love to play that. Because I can't imagine how many assists I could have gotten playing. Oh, no, no, no. The players don't like to play fast. No, no, no. I love it. Oh, I love it. Yeah, I know, but trust me, I've had teams there. I have my first meeting.

I say, okay, now we're going to fast break this year. And who's in favor? And, you know, all 12 guys raise their hands, you know. And then after about six practices, if you asked the same question, you might have two. I would be one of those two. I would be one of those two. Yeah, yeah. Well, if I had you, Doug, you'd be in the speed game then.

You'd be in this book. And that you can get it on Amazon.com right now. It's available. but I just hope that people realize how hard it is to run this one. It's because players want to play steady as it goes. They say they want to play fast. They don't want to play fast. It's too hard.

Hey, Coach, thanks so much for joining us. Congrats on the book and can't wait to read it in its entirety. Get right to the romance and find the way to wow this Valentine's with 1-800flowers.com. from classic roses and bouquets to decadent chocolate-covered berries, gourmet treats, and more. Surprise your Valentine with 1-800flowers.com. Right now, get the 18-stem enchanted rose medley for $39.99, or upgrade to 24 red roses for $10 more. Go to 1-800flowers.com slash tune-in.

That's 1-800flowers.com slash tune-in. If I could be you... And you could be me for just one hour. If you could find a way... to get inside. Each other's mind. Walk a mile in my shoes. Walk a mile in my shoes.

Walk a mile in my shoes. We've all felt left out. And for some, that feeling lasts more than a moment. We can change that. Learn how it belonging begins with us.org. Brought to you by the ad council. Walk a mile in my shoes. Look through your children's eyes to see the true magic of a forest.

It's a storybook world for them. You look and see it. tree. They see the wrinkled face of a wizard with arms outstretched to the sky. They see treasure and pebbles. They see a windy path that could lead to adventure. And they see you. Their fearless guide is this fascinating world. Find a forest near you and start exploring at discovertheforest.org. Brought to you by the United States Forest Service and the ad council. Be sure to catch the live edition of the Doug Gottlieb show weekdays at 3 p.m. Eastern, noon Pacific. My thanks to Paul Westhead.

What a really insightful guy. Interesting book. Speed game. You can pick it up on Amazon wherever you pick up books. A quick reminder, the Doug Gottlieb show is daily. Three to six Eastern Time. 12 to 3 Pacific. If you miss it, you can download the podcast wherever you download podcast.

Obviously, this all ball, we're pretty big fans of. But Lou Wayne joined us in the last one. You can still download that one. Download, subscribe, and don't forget to rate us. I think we got a chance of something pretty special over the next couple years in college basketball as guys are going to get a chance to get an extra year of eligibility and not count against the 13 scholarship limit.

College basketball to me has been not just watered down because there's so many teams and so many conferences and everything's on TV, but because guys just leave too early. They just do. And we don't, and they transfer so much. We don't know who's where, like I've done this for 20 years and I got to do a much better review nowadays than I used to because everybody transfers

or goes to the pros. But with the extra year of eligibility, it has a chance to reset the market. Oh, yeah, by the way, the G-League's in major trouble. This is a great move by the NCAA and one that could help kind of regenerate some interest into college basketball as we regenerate the depth of talent because teams had really become watered down, losing entire teams on a year-to-year basis. All right, we got great interviews upcoming on Future All-Balls. Thanks so much for listening.

Don't forget to download, subscribe, rate, listen to the Doug Gottlieb show daily. I'm Doug Gottlieb, and this is All Ball. I'm Flof from Progressive. Being a baseball fanatic like me can be stressful. It's not all sports points and touchdowns. So Progressive is going to help you take your mind off your team for a moment. Instead of thinking about how they miss that goal point score, think about the name your price tool from Progressive letting you choose

coverage options based on your budget, unlike your team that missed the end zone net area. Well, anyway, hope this distraction about Progressive's name your price tool was helpful. It sure kept me from thinking about all those penalty balls. Yay, sports! Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and Affiliates, price and coverage match limited by state law. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier.

This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Side help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged.

It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that experience.

excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfills of conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to The Clifford Show on the IHeard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok podcast network on TikTok. On the Look Back at a podcast.

From 1979, that was a big moment for me. 84's big to me. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a year, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. With our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite authors, like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s. Before it was a wild year. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.