The Herd with Colin Cowherd - All Ball - Liberty HC Ritchie McKay on Coaching Highs/Lows, Tony Bennett Influence, OK St. Tourney Matchup

Episode Date: March 17, 2021

In this episode, Doug talks with Liberty Head Coach Ritchie McKay about his path into coaching, the importance of his faith, the time "Midnight" Lute Olsen stole Jason Terry after Terry committed to Washington, his up and down tenure at New Mexico, what he learned under Tony Bennett, and his mindset heading into the tournament and his team's first round matchup with Oklahoma State and potential #1 NBA pick Cade Cunningham. Make sure you download, rate and subscribe here to get the latest All Ball Podcasts! Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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To order today, visit 1-800flowers.com slash tune-in. That's 1-800flowers.com slash tune-in. Hey, what up? Doug Gottlieb here. And thanks so much for downloading this All-Ball podcast. You are going to love this one. Love it. Today's guest is the head coach of Liberty University.

And, man, I've known Richie for a long, at the, I remember Rich for a long time. I didn't realize that he recruited me to, or tried to recruit me to go to Washington. And I didn't go. He actually, Richie McKay ended up getting, landing Jason Terry that year. But if, for people that remember, Jason. and Terry flipped at the last second went to Arizona, and then a couple years later, they end up getting Dan Dickow. That was after he was gone.

But Richard McKay's head coach of Liberty. The flames are getting ready for the NSA tournament. They're taking on Oklahoma State, Milamata, and Cade Cunningham. He's had a mere curio crazy journey where started off an indie, made his way to the Pacific Northwest playing college basketball, played overseas, came back to Seattle, bounced around back to Seattle with U-Dub, went to Portland State to,

Portland State, Oregon State, Colorado State, Oregon State, and then ultimately New Mexico, got fired in New Mexico. We got a lot to get to. So I think what I'm going to do is record a special pod with some picks and maybe drop that tomorrow. What do you guys say before the tournament starts? I know the first four starts then. Record some picks.

But I thought you'd really enjoy this conversation with a guy who has, you know, by his own accounts, own accounts, he's gone through some ups and downs in this business. But the ups, Liberty would have gone last year, likely to the tournament. And they did go two years ago, and they did pull an upset.

And now they got Oklahoma State that they're staring down the barrel of, and we'll see if they can pull off that upset as a 13 seat, taking down to four. The head coach of the Liberty Flames is Richard McKay. He joins me now. Take me back your first memories of who

when. and where? I think I was, I don't know, five or six and had a nerve hoop, and I was bawling on the nerve hoop dog, like deep range, reverse dunks, all the above. Did you have my dad and mom, they had their door to their bedroom? There was like a closet next to it on the right hand side. So I had the ability to shoot the ball off the side and then off the, like wall and like I had all the trick shots as well and then my brother and I we would play like these

vicious games of one-on-one full-core dunk hoop because they had they had like a little kind of alleyway in their bedroom and so what was the nerve hoop set up yeah all of that I had an older brother we getting fights every day and we had the we had the jv version of the nerve hoop go you know the net the net was all jacked up and it was uh it was uh But yeah, you know, my dad played at the University of Mexico, and he's from Indianapolis, Snap Town. It's where Cusha hysteria live. So basketball was just prevalent in our home. It was always talked about, and that's where I got my passion for it. How good a player were you?

Not as good as you, but, you know, I love the game. and I ate, slept and breathed it. So I was highly competitive and ended up playing at Seattle Pacific and then overseas for a couple of years. I really got the most out of my ability just because of how many hours I spent on it. But never really thought I'd coach, but I'd love to play. Okay, so Seattle Pacific, who's your coach?

Guy in Claude Terry. You remember Coach Terry, don't you? Sure. He was the all-time, at the time, he was the all-time leading score at Stanford. I think Todd Licti passed him and some other since then. But played the NBA or ABA and the NBA. He was tremendous for me, not just because of his basketball acumen, but he was also a tremendous mentor.

I used to go up to his office acting like I wanted to talk some ball. And honestly, Doug, I really just wanted to spend time with him. He was, he was fabulous. How did you guys play? played a little uptempo, a little pro style. And then in terms of he was just a great mentor, and you want to hang out around him, what sorts of things?

Like, again, you're a college kid. He's an adult. You know, he's lived a life. So, like, how would he mentor you? Because those are the building blocks of who you are as a person, who you are as a coach. To me, like, we have people, and frankly, it's in my profession, not yours,

but especially my profession, who they minimize the importance of that relationship between college coach and player and how much, you know, so many kids now come from split families, some comes from dysfunctional families, but even ones that come from like, I had a two-parent household,

but my college coaches were father-type figures. What was he like during those times spent with you when you pretended like you wanted to talk about? Yeah, The word that comes in mind is he was transformational. You know, not only did he have these great stories and he would help me visualize the dreams that I had when he talked about the work ethic you needed to be a pro or the commitment that you had to have, but what was most important or most valuable to me, man,

though he really, he loved me unconditionally, you know, with all of my junk or all of the the voids or holes, wounds that I had in my life, I just felt like he was there. And he was, he was the first man that I had ever met who actually read the Bible that he had on his desk. And just, just tremendously considerate of who I was as a person and made me feel valuable. And had these words of life that he would relate to scripture that I just thought was instrumental to my development. And I didn't know it then. but I found out later what he was doing is he was just preparing me for what was going to be a career choice that I was going to make and how the importance of a person's play or results of their statistics, that wasn't as important as a person's heart and a person's well-being. And I just think from some of those fundamentally deposited principles, it helped shape me in,

I have many years, 30 years ago, into who I am today. So you get down playing. How good was your team? We were decent. We didn't make it to the NCAA tournament, but we were decent. So you get down playing. And then what was the decision like to go play overseas? I was first working.

I was from Seattle or lived in Seattle. I was working for basketball travelers, Nels Hawkinson, and I finally got the call to go play in New Zealand. And so I did that. I had a friend of mine who I worked with as a graduate assistant at University of Washington. The first time I was there, he got me in touch with a guy named Dale Lair. In between seasons in New Zealand, I went to go be a Division II assistant at Queens College. Again, never really thought coaching was going to be my deal.

I wanted to hoop, man. I wanted to play as long as I could. So, but one thing led to that. Yeah. No, go ahead. So, wait, so Queens College, who's the head coach? Dale Lair. Okay.

And that's, that's in Queens, New York? It's in Charlotte, North Carolina. It was a- Oh, okay, the Queen City. Okay. Got it. It was in all-girls school, and they hired Coach Lairer to bring back basketball to the campus.

So the first 13 men on campus were basketball players. Basketball players? Yeah. It's actually kind of an, I mean, I know it's a religious school, but it's kind of an easy sale there. Like, hey, man, you want to come and play basketball at an all-girls school? Like, you're literally the only guys. Yeah, yeah.

The ratio, the female-to-male ratio was like 9 to 1. I mean, dudes, if you can't get a date there, it's a, it's a, you're going to have a rough go of it. It's a you problem, right? You can't get a date at Queen College when, when, when, when, when they're, you're, there's 13 dudes on campus. Yeah. What was Dale like as a coach and what was your job during your time you were there? Yeah, you know, at the Division 2 ranks, you do a little bit of everything.

Coach Laird was phenomenal. He had a balance that was really healthy between family life and how much time he spent with his career with our players. And I lived across the street from the gym and was single at the time. So I had a ton of access, a ton of freedom. another one that the guy sent my way to model for me what a coach should look like. And I know, you know, this, your dad was a coach. And you know, as a son who has a coach in his home,

how much time he really invest in other kids' lives, you know? Yeah. I just felt like Coach Lairr was, he was committed in developing and transforming, but he was also really good in his own home. And again, another foundation. piece for me that that would set the table for how I tried to pursue my career when I was a parent. Were you, I know religion is so important in your life and obviously, you know, you're a place like Liberty, but were you raised in a very religious home or is this something that that took

place during your kind of formative college years where your views became much more Christian base? Yeah, my mom and dad were divorced. So I grew up in a home that had a, they had a faith. And we went to church. My brother, my older brother really had a strong faith that kind of inspired me. And when I was 19, I was just finishing up high school or 18. And I went to junior college my freshman year. That's when I invited Jesus into my life and have been a Christian every since. I think, you know, for me, Doug, I describe it as, you know, I just, that night I made that decision. It was like opening the door to a mansion and so many rooms to explore, so many experiences to have in this great, big old house. And I'm still in the mansion, still experiencing them. But it gave me a sense of peace and purpose that I'd never had before. Okay, Queens College, you're playing professionally. What made you come back stateside to coach again?

Yeah, I came back and I got a job at Seattle Pacific. I married Julie, who has been my wife for 30 years, going on 31 in August, and came back to my alma mater. And shortly after that, I got a chance to go to Bradley University with Jim Mullinary and then back to the Northwest. when I started recruiting you. Wait, wait, wait, wait, hold on. Hold on. You're like, you're like skipping all around here.

So Coach Moe, people who know him in the Midwest, right? Now, did you know my dad signed him in college? No, did he really? Yeah. No way. At Creighton. Is that right? The Clayton, yeah.

Wow. And then he's. We're talking about Jim Molynery. Jim Molynery. Go look. I didn't know he had a game. Yeah, no. was a hell of a player and I think he transferred to western Illinois right that was where he

i think you're right yeah so he went to craton and i mean it was i never forget it like i did a bradley game one time and i think my dad had mentioned it i don't really remember how it came up and then you know like there he's there's there's a little bit of forest gump or where's woldo where all of a sudden like i was at minnesota and there's like coach coach mo on on the staff and then as in irasca and there's coach Moe on the staff with Tim Miles and and you know all those he's got all these stories about my dad so yeah yeah yeah coach Moe was uh man was he he was so intense the hiring process alone you know he took me i was i had never been division one and he took me and uh he really grew me he made me value uh how how hard it was at that level and uh

He was relentless in his work ethic, but, man, he was a really, really good coach. And another one, again, another one of the people that was valuable in my life and building some foundation. But I was only there. You went there for how long? Two years, yep. Really enjoyed the area as you're telling me of Peoria. Well, Bob Bender. I'm in Seattle, which is an incredible city, right?

And like, look, I know how important basketball is to Peoria. I have a place in Peoria, right? The old Bobville and it's a lot of a hoop. But it's really hard to go from Seattle to Peoria. Let's just call it like it is. No doubt. No doubt. Like Peoria, don't get me wrong, but Seattle is not a home.

Okay, so then you got a job at UW? Yeah, so Bob Bender left Illinois State. You go to University of Washington. Obviously, the Redbirds and the Braves are, Rivals. Big rivals. And Coach Bender, I think, had a little bit of level of respect for the job that we were doing at Bradley. And I got to know Ray Jackaletti in that recruiting process.

We'd be recruiting against each other. And yeah, and then so Billy King was his initial hire. And Billy went to go to the NBA. And Coach Bender called me in the summer and asked if I wanted to come back to Seattle. And a day later, I was on the plane and started the rebuild. It's like, you go, I'll pack. You go all pack. So, so, right, that speaks to the respect.

You hire a guy who you competed against in the league. And then, of course, location-wise, it totally made sense. I love that you were the second choice. Like, that's amazing. Yeah. That's happened to a lot of people. And then it just works out. Okay.

So you get to UW. It's 1993, I believe. Yeah. Ninthumny-93. Heck Ed's a cool place. but I don't remember U-Dub being any good at that point in time.

Oh, we wouldn't. Who proceed was, Marv Harshman wasn't the coach before. Who was the coach before? Coach before, gosh. After us, it was Lynn Nance. It was the coach before. I can't ever remember.

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this podcast is for you to hear more. Listen to deeply well with Debbie Brown from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. It was, was it Les Stevens? Lynn Stevens? Okay.

Yeah. Let's just go, yes. So, okay, so you're there. So now a sudden, okay, you have to go from the valley, okay, which is really, remember that mid-90s at the time, like Tulsa is rolling. Oh, now. Absolutely rolling. You know, I mean, the whole league is kind of ridiculous at that point.

People forget how good the valley was going back then. Yeah. Charlie Sparer had the bears rolling. That then was southwest Missouri. That was such good basketball and incredibly difficult home court venues to go in and try and get a dub. The Valley was legit. It was totally legit. Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in the nation.

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Discovertheforest.org. Brought to you by the United States Forest Service and the at council. Okay. So what was, what was Bob Bender's plan for, was it just, we got to, we got to recruit all these local kids or what, what did you guys set? How did you, how did you decide to rebuild that program? You know, I think part of it was trying to keep guys in the, in the Seattle area or Northwest area close to home, you know, at the time, Oregon wasn't Oregon like it is now.

and OSU had struggled a little bit and then watching state. Now, Kelvin was there and he, he kind of had it rolling. So we felt like we had to at least try and be able to win our state. And he wanted to do it with West Coast kids. But Coach Bender, you know, was a former Duke assistant. So kind of had contacts all over.

We weren't afraid to go anywhere in the country to try and get someone. But we really knew we had to be good close to home. And again, that's what I saw. this tough, hard-nosed point guard that, and I don't know, people give you enough credit, but you were one of the best passers that I'd ever seen in high school basketball. I mean, elite. You were elite. And, you know, but you big-timed us, you know, you went to Notre Dame. I didn't big-time.

Here's how I remembered, okay. Didn't you have other guards? You had older guards, so I would have had to sit for it. So again, you have to, this is where you have to factor in. Like part of our problem, I thought, in recruiting to my dad and I, as we kind of knew too much, right? So you start, but, but, and also there was a level of, of lack of faith because Washington hadn't been good.

Yeah. Just hadn't, you know, it was before Washington took off. It's hard to relate to people now. And I don't think people understood tech ed and how great a place that was to play back then, right? It just, all of it hadn't hit yet. but but you did you are you you sign macaula right and dion luteon and donna watts and i believe i believe before you left you tell me if i'm wrong you guys actually had a commitment from jason terry

man great memory okay and then and then what happened so what happened tell me the jason terry story because this is the old midnight loot what really happened how did jason terry go from committed hometown Washington kid turn this thing around to all of a sudden he's playing he's a he went to be a sixth man he didn't start Arizona until his senior year I know that was funny about you know I was only there two years as well and then I got the job at Portland state as a head coach but we were we were starting to flip it a little bit we were becoming more competitive and when when Donald Watts committed we had he and Jason Terry uh for some elite camp or something And I was close to JT.

Like we would talk every day. I talked to moms. And he committed. So we thought we legit had one of the best back courts in the country, certainly in the West, but maybe in the country. And Jason called one night and he said, hey, coach, man, coach, I didn't get anything to compare to. And I'm not going to go to Arizona, but I just got to take another visit.

I'm not going there, coach. I promise you, I'm not going there. I said, you want to take a visit. He said, yeah, yeah, yeah, but I'm not going there. me and my mind, we just want to see something else. You know, it's Arizona, coach. I said, Jay, man, I just, I'm just telling you, it's hard to say no to them. Coach Olson, you know, he's known for for nabbing a dude at the midnight hour.

And he said, yeah, midnight loose. Yeah, he said, coach, coach you ain't got nothing to worry about. Didn't hear from him. Famous last word. Didn't hear from him for about three days. And he called me. He said, coach, man, I made the switch. I said, man, I'm not telling coach.

Benner, you got to tell him. And yeah, he broke my heart. But he had a heck of a career there and in the league. But, man, that was Coach Olson. Matt Othick, there was a few of them now. Matt Othick, who was, didn't he commit the UNLV? And coach split. Yeah, there was a few of them.

And with good reason, Arizona is a great program. But, man, man, that was a tough one. Okay, so you get to Portland State. At the time, I think, just on Division 1? Portland State was a restart. They had in 1979, no, 179, Larry Bird, Magic Johnson, and Freeman Williams

were three of the names on the first team All-America list. Well, they banned the program after Freeman Williams left because of NCAA improprieties, did not have basketball for 16 years, and they decided to restart it. And when they restarted, they were now. They were going Division 1, and we had an eight-year probationary period that we couldn't play in the NCAA tournament. So I got the job, Doug, because nobody else wanted it.

But is your programming, how old at this time? I'm 29. I'm the youngest head coach in the country. Okay. So you're 29. How much you're making? I think the salary was $60,000 at the time. Okay.

Beautiful area, right? You're a Pacific Northwest guy anyway. Like an incredible place. incredible place to live. Yeah. So what's the process like of legitimately starting a program? Yeah, you know, it was incredibly healthy for me. The first year we were there, we got two scholarships and didn't feel the team,

but we took Brian Town, who was a walk-on at University of Washington that came with us. And I had one assistant, Brad Susie, who's been with me every day since then. I know. He never, never leaves your side. I got it. And we took a kidding. Wait, how'd you meet Brad? Where'd Susey come from?

Brad was in, he was a food broker for Damon and associates. I met him through a mutual friend. He was a heck of a player. At the time, he was at Eastern Michigan. He set an NCAA tournament record for most three-pointers in a game. He made nine of them. They lost to Pitt when Pitt had Demetrius Gore and Sean Miller. But Brad scored like 27 points in 21 minutes.

I said, man, 27 points in 21 minutes. Why coach Braun only play you 21? minutes. If you had 27, he said, that's why I transferred. Coach, points for a minute,

coach. Throw a set. Go to the math, coach. So, yeah, Suis and I hit it off, you know, faith,

had us shared the same faith, the passion for basketball, loved to work with kids. So the first year, we sit out, we play two on two nearly every day. You know,

that's Damon Stottomeyer's dad, his Willie, Willie played at Portland State. So Damon would run his summer camps at our gym. And of course, Dane would be there for a day or two.

And man, we'd have some of the best runs in the city at Portland State's gym. That's where I met EMA, Udoka, and Cabino, all the guys would come to PSU and play. So we started to,

and then we had to transfer Jason Hartman, our second year, and ended up, yeah, we ended up. Hartman was Wazoo? Hartman was at Udub. Oh, you did U-Dub.

So you were recruiting U-Dub, and then when he transferred you can run with it. Correct. Correct. So that first year, you know, I, when we didn't have practice, I would go and I visited Dick Davy at Santa Clara,

Dick Bennett, who was at Wisconsin. And, man, I just watched practice. I got to learn. I've got to absorb. And then the first year of us actually playing, you know, the internet wasn't what it is now and there's not social media. So I got to make all these mistakes that,

no one saw. But we, and we got, we had the right kind of kids. So we got fairly competitive in just two short years and went 15 and 12. But I'm telling you, it was, it was really hard to recruit. Yeah, we can't go to the tournament for six more years. But it's, you know, so, but the guys we had, man, I loved coaching them. And they were, they were the guys that no one else wanted and had something to prove. So it ended up helping us be really competitive in a very stage of our program. How did New Mexico come to be? So after, uh, after Portland State, I took the job at Colorado State and, uh, was,

was there for two years. Okay. Sorry, I'd skip the step. Let me. Okay. So how did the Colorado state happen? Uh, again, we, that second year, you know, we took a restart program and, uh, the AD at the time, Tim Weiser, uh, called and said he had an interest and I can't remember who

the other candidate was. because, oh, yeah, it's the late Neil Doherty, who was at Kansas, and it was he and I, and I ended up getting the job. And we inherited a program from Stu Morrill, who was a heck of a coach. You remember Coach Morrill, right? Yeah, of course, of course. He went to, then he went from there. He went to Utah State.

Yep, yep, tremendous coach. And we inherited that program, and Coach Morrill would call play every time down. They used the car system, and we had a little different philosophy. but so I think the kids kind of felt good about, you know, maybe being able to play a little bit more freely, offensively, but he had such a good culture. I think we won 19 the first year, went to the elite aid of the NIT,

and then 18 the next year. And, and man, it was, that's, that's when, that's when my career, I was there for two years. So two years at Portland State, two years at Colorado State. And then I took the Oregon State job. and Mitch Barnhart was the athletic director. And I took it because, number one, my dad was diagnosed with cancer. And it was a chance to recruit L.A., be in L.A. a ton, go back and forth, bigger budget.

The Pact 10 at the time, it was, you know, is what I had always aspired for in terms of level. And yeah, it was a tough job, man. And I didn't do a good job there, Doug. I wasn't. Well, your brother coach there. You know, it's, and Wayne Tinkle's done a fabulous job. But it's a little, it's a little different now. But, I mean, like, look, they had Gil Coliseum is ancient.

They've redone a bunch of it now. And they've built a practice facility now. Yeah. Right. But it's, you know, I mean, it's nothing short of a miracle what Ralph Miller did forever. And what they're doing, what they're doing now. Like, people don't understand, you know, they're in Wazoo. Those are hard, especially with all the money of Oregon spending and the location of U-Dub.

Okay, so if you could go back and think, okay, should you have not taken the Oregon State job? Was it the, what was, was there something you did that you would fix? Like, why don't you think you did a good enough job at Oregon State? I forget Wins and Law. Yeah, we, I should have stayed longer at Oregon State. but again, you got to understand when, so you remember the PAC 10 at the time was ridiculous. Ridiculous. It was so, every team in that league was an NCAA tournament team except for us in Washington State.

So. Well, look, let me say what you can't say. Okay, Cal was cheating at the time. They had, I mean, caught cheating. So it's not like, oh, God leaves breaking news. Like, no, they were buying dudes. and they had dudes, right? Tony Gonzalez didn't have to buy

because he's football. Tremaine folks, Shalani Gardner, like they had dudes. Dudes. Dudes, dudes. Okay? Stanford had Mike Montgomery,

who's unbelievable. Right. And they had, they had pros everywhere. Keith, Collins, twin, Likti, like you kind of go through and Ralee,

like they had Reb in Night. Dude. U.D.B. just now got it, finally gotten it going. Yeah. Oregon started to get it going with Jerry Green.

Yeah. UCLA's got like seven proes on their roster. USC, I mean, Arizona is, wins the national championship during this period of time. They have all NBA players, right?

Like, you just dudes. And then you're like Oregon State, you know, and you get the, you know, so. Now, did you sign Corey Benjamin?

Was that your biggest signing? No, that I didn't sign Corey. He was after me. I was only there two years again. And I would have stayed at Oregon State. I think I, I think we would have done better.

I'm not the same coach now. I was then had a lot to learn. But, you know, my dad passed away when I was there. He passed away in 2000. And the New Mexico job opens in my second year there. When my dad played it, New Mexico, it was always my dream job. Oh, it was just like science. It was just like sign.

Signs pointing you there, right? Dad, dad dies. It's New Mexico, all the timing, everything in line. And it's like the good Lord giving you a sign, this is where you're supposed to be. And literally, I thought when I took the job, I thought, well, that'll be my last job. I'm at the place where I've always aspired to be a dream job, all of that. And, you know, in our first, Fran Priscilla was a coach that I proceeded. And our first three years were, first two years were a little tough.

And then we, you know, Danny Granger was there my second year. And our third year, I mean, he, he, Doug. was outstanding. Like he was. Yeah, it was a 16 pick in the draft. Well, we made it to the tournament in three years, lost to Villanova in the first round. But I really felt like, and I got a contract extension, I really felt like, man, I'm never going to leave this place.

It's Albuquerque. The fan support was great, all that. And then Rudy Davalos, my AD, he retired. And he said, you know, I'm not so sure you will be long for this job when I leave. And I, why did he say that, Rudy? And he said, I just, anyway, we got a new AD and I could tell like I wasn't his guy. We weren't winning. So why?

Why? What was it about you that all of a sudden, you know, he comes in and says, hey, you're like, man, contract extension, I'm good. And he says, yeah, I don't know. What was it? Well, you know how volatile the fan base can be there. and we had lost something. That is the only thing in the state that matters is New Mexico basketball. No doubt.

We had lost a few in a row on the road. Like my fourth year, we were 17 and 13. And then my fifth and last year, I think we started out like eight and two. We had beaten the eighth ranked Wichita team and then lost a Bobby Huggins, Kansas State team, and the final of a tournament in Vegas. And then we went on the road and lost Bobby Knife for his whatever. record-breaking win and then lost our season opener to TCU and I got back and we were like, I want to say one in one in neutral games and 0 and 4 on the road and Paul Krebs, our AD just,

we had a meeting. He said, I'm really concerned about the road. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care which I'm saying. Yep, that's me. Clipper Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the my journey from basketball to college football

or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated.

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Listen to the 1021 podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast. podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Losses. I got jammed up. I got offended. I thought, man, I'm doing a great job or we're doing a great job. And we should cut us a little slack. We're still in the building mode.

And honestly, I coached out of fear the latter part of the season. And about a month later, he decided to let me go and let me finish the season. I wasn't going to do that, but I called Dick Ben, who's a mentor and he said don't quit on those kids make sure they know you're with them and we lost like our last five and it just it just ended poorly the fan base there was when you said you coached out of fear and I understand what you're saying like that's it's one of the things that that you know like I think kind of the full school coaches don't know that they they don't mean to do it to every kid but there's occasionally kids to react that way like I feel like that was

my biggest issue in playing for coach sutton we all kind of feared him but i would play in an effort to try and please him right so i thought i wouldn't shoot because if i'd shoot and miss he'd get mad right and and it was just a i was scared of him taking me out of the game whereas guys of my team were like yeah we can't wait without you just we up do what you do and and let him figure it out well that sounds right but when you're a pleaser as a kid and you're a coach's son who's been, you know, call on time and again, like, you do what your coach says. You got to play your game within reason.

But as a coach, I never heard a coach say you coach out of fear. How did it affect you to coach out of fear? Yeah, it just, again, now this is my dream job. This is where my dad played. My whole desire, one of my greatest desires was to, you know, to make the McKay name, make people proud of, make my dad proud and make people proud of our, our time in as Lobos and the opinion the opinion of others was way too important to me and i

feared letting them down and and i think when we as men live in that or drive in that lane we're very susceptible to you know to to ruin so it uh it just yeah it is and again it wasn't a It wasn't a time in my life that I felt really healthy emotionally or spiritually. And don't give you wrong, God was faithful. He knew I needed to go through that. Part of that process was coming to the end of myself and relying more on my faith than I did just on me. So, yeah, and that was it. The year five, I was done.

And I was without work for about three weeks, thought about going into being a color analysts for TV and interviewed at the Mountain Network, the now defunct Mountain Network, and then Liberty Call. And I went out to the East Coast for the first time and became the head coach at Liberty. If you design, engineer, build, or maintain buildings in California, you can get free technical training, continuing education credits, and prepare for a range of certifications through PG&E's online classes. Enroll at pg.e.com slash training. grows in the forest.

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You left in the middle, right, to work for Tony Bennett. I'm at Liberty for two years. We have Seth Curry, Steph's brother. He was a nation-leading score. We had beaten Virginia my second year. And, man, I was enjoying it. I really loved being there. The school was great.

People were great. But Tony called and said, you know, I want you to come and be my associate head coach. He offered me a ridiculous contract. And I first said no. I felt good about being a head of coach. Kind of like it. And then, you know, my wife and I,

we prayed about it. and he asked again. And man, I just felt like it was, I felt like I needed to go and serve instead of be served. And being an assistant, I hadn't been assistant for 13 years at the time. But I thought it would be healthy for me just to, you know, Dick Bennett, again, my mentor, Tony and I were good friends. I felt like I owed Coach Bennett something, Coach Dick Bennett, because of how good he had been to me. And I decided to go. And I didn't know what I was signing up for, Doug.

you know, when you go from making all those decisions, when you practice, who you recruit, whether or not you can go see your kids play and you're an assistant, you're now supporting a vision, not casting it. It was different. But man, was it really good for me? Not only, not only did I get some mind space back, not being indicted by the loss, you know, coaching in freedom, really invest in in relationships and being that same transformational type coach that alluded to that I had. It helped me recalibrate and re-center what my purpose was in coaching. And then I learned from the best, a defensive system that, you know, we've implemented here

that's proven to be pretty efficient. How does Tony do it? How do you, in this climate, and if you have to run, you just tell me. Yeah, you're good. In this climate where basketball is just not taught to most AAU kids, high-level kids, the way it's played at Virginia. And I remember when Tony got the job, and we could go back and, you know, because it was a search firm hire and no ties to the area, it'll never work, right? you got to recruit the DMB, you got to get local kids, you can't play slow. How does he do it?

So I think Tone wanted the job because he thought it could be like a Stanford on the East Coast, and he admired the fit that, you know, Stanford kids had because they had a conscientiousness in the classroom and that sometimes translates on the court as well. And our first recruiting class, I'm not talking about when we first got there in April, but the class after that, man, they were called the six shooters. It was, it was ranked fifth in the country or something. And it was six players of which only two of them stayed. And so our first two years were 15 and 16 and then 16 and 15.

So we're 31 and 31 after two. And men, the three things that I think would answer your question. Number one, he's amazingly consistent. He's got an unwavering belief in the way you play defensively and the commitment that you have to have to it. Number two, he recruits the right kind of guys. Like he was uninterested in what the ranking was. I know you were a highly rated recruit,

but you had to have a sense of selflessness and a really competitive and passive. and passionate disposition for the game in order to be successful for him. And man, I'm telling you, like Joe Harris and London Perantas and Anthony Gill and like we just took the Kill Mitchell. We took guys, we were beating mid-majors on guys.

And I think then thirdly, what's not talked about, you know, because not many people, he's such a humble, humble individual. He's really one of the best coaches I've been around, but one of the best people. He's got this. But how is that?

That's real, okay? I mean, is that, I never forget when they, when Virginia lost the UMBC. And when the year before, when they lost Syracuse, had the thing won, going to the final four, right? And they grabbed Tony after the game.

And, I mean, I have no ties to the program, zero, other than I've known Tony most of my life and I respect his environment and he's been incredible to me as his dad. But this calm kind of grace, compassion is that's a real thing. That's not just a TV thing. Oh, no doubt. No doubt. He's, he's, you know, his dad would tell you how. temperamental he was and that's why he retired like he just it just little things bothered his dad and tone has this ability his faith is he's deeply rooted but he's he's got this ability that i'm just telling you that third quality he's insatiable about getting better so but he's got this ability to to process the negative in such a way that it motivates him or in

inspires him to turn it to the good, to turn it to improvement, to use it as a lesson and not a loss. It's uncanny. It's like not many people have the depth that he has in his, not only in his faith, but in his person. And I think because of that, man, you know, he probably doesn't have an enemy in the world. But I think he has success because he's relentless in pursuing desire. outcome and unwavered by adversity. It wasn't hard because it was back to liberty, a place that I really had an affinity for, yet I knew I was going to miss the significance of the game.

You know, when I left, we were number two in the country for, I don't know, 10 weeks of the year. And every game was a big game. It was sold out every venue we played in and just being able to. to compete for it all was I really, really liked it. I wanted to be a head coach again, and I couldn't imagine a better place to get a chance to do it at the time than Liberty. So that was, that didn't make it hard. And it was an hour from tone and Laurel, so, you know, we're close, we're friends. It felt right. But I do miss the, you know, the significance of the

game on occasions, yet, you know, they've reached such a high level now. Whenever they lose, it's the sky is falling. He's created an expectation there that's hard to keep up with. What is it, what does it mean to you? What does it signify to people who have been around that program and Tony and how you guys built it to see him win the whole thing? Oh, it was phenomenal. You know, especially given what you alluded to, to earlier when he was interviewed outside the locker room after the first one seat had ever lost to his 16. And he did the interview number one.

Most people wouldn't have done it. But the words that he said, I just thought it was special. I thought that meant more to most coaches and into a lot of people than you winning a national championship and saying whatever you said after that game. So I think it was, man, it was guys a way of saying, hey, here's a gift to you for being obedient to what you were called to. And I was, couldn't have been happier, couldn't have thought of someone that deserved it more. But you have laughed. What are those emotions like?

Tough, yeah, you know, I still don't have a national championship ring. But, no, I was happy for those guys, man. And they labored hard in order to do something like that. And I had been gone a few years. So Jack saw Ty Jerome, Kyle Guy, some of those guys were still guys that I recruited or helped recruit. But it's hard to watch someone else win a national championship. But, you know, I felt like I was a little, little part of it. And it gave me a dream that one day we were going to cut the nets ourselves.

okay so you get back to liberty now you've done a little bit of everything right you've been a head coach starting a program you've been a head coach at colorado state you've been back to Oregon state that didn't work out well new mexico it's your dream job you lose that job you go to liberty you go back to being an assistant now you're back at liberty how are you now different than you ever used to be uh very intense about the whole person and making sure that I'm faithful to the privilege of being a, the privilege of shepherding or stewarding someone else. I've heard it said, you know, your parent, we don't own our kids. We're just supposed to be great stewards of them. And man, I just think that's my daily pursuit to make sure that our guys and their experience is something that they

will remember and be able to recall in a life-shaping way that that is lasting and that is significant. So I think when you have that approach, you're not as indicted about the outcome. You can really invest in the process and you don't get so hung up with a result. and whether it's win or lose. So I think that's how I'm different, just in that place of emotionally and spiritually healthy that I again referenced earlier,

I think I'm in a way better place, obviously, 20 years later. You are, you know, right? But now you got Mr. Falwell and that school, I'm giving you two opportunities. What is it like now to be kind of back in the tournament, you know, a guy who now, has kind of reestablish their value in terms of, you know, could you get a different job,

understanding that Liberty twice giving you opportunity. Like what's that balance like? You know, I don't think about it much, Doug, just because I've moved so much now. We're empty nesters and, you know, I think it's different now. But, man, I love where I am. And I think we've got a really healthy culture. and we've gotten to a place now where we've beaten some high majors

we're kind of on the mid-major map and you know how hard it is the schedule when you arrive at that place. So I just think, I think for me, this is, I heard this in a book, read this in a book by Mark Batterson called Win the Day.

He said we have to have this ability to bury B-U-R-Y dead yesterdays and not worry about unborn tomorrows. And I think when we do that, We can make the most of our 24. And that's what I'm trying to do in be present, not only in their lives, but where I am in my own old age. And enjoy this process, man, because it's fun.

What would it mean to beat Oklahoma State? You know, Mike's a great dude. He's done an amazing job there. They probably have the number one graphic in the upcoming draft. what would that mean for you personally for your program for the university? Well, we beat Mississippi State a couple of years ago, and it was the first tournament win in our school's history. That was great.

We then lost the next Sunday to Buzz Williams, Virginia Tech Team. And in last year, we qualified but didn't have the tournament. So I don't think our guys will be overwhelmed by the moment. I know you'll be rooting hard for your Cowboys. I appreciate that. And I really, really like Mike. He's a tremendous dude. And I'm waiting for you to ask the questions about the game plan so you can text it to him.

But obviously, when you have a player like Cunningham, like, that dude is special. Well, if he's not one, he'll be two, and he'll play for 15 years if he stays healthy. But they also have some other really good players. And they're the 11th ranked team in the country. They shouldn't have been a four seed. it would mean a lot. Yet, you know, I do think our guys having won a few high major games over the years. I don't think they'll be afraid of the moment, but we'll have to do a great job in order to,

in order just to compete with them. They're really good. Wish I'm so happy you found peace, happiness, and success, right? And those things, success doesn't always mean winning games, but it doesn't hurt when you do win games. and I can't I'm just fortunate to know you and appreciative of your time and wish you to see the best of luck against my one's fun yeah thank you man I feel the same about you you've you've got a great platform and you use it wisely man thanks for all you do to

better people's lives and if we do or if we're fortunate enough to upset the cowboys man I'm going to send you some some liberty gear so you can you can fly the colors Hey, I'll take some liberty gear anyway. I got a little duty. I got 11-year-old lefty. You may not be a high major. I may be calling you about recruiting down the road. All right.

I'm taking all lefties, man. They can shoot that thing. You can shoot that thing. I'll talk soon. Thanks, Richie. Thanks, Doug. I hope you enjoyed that. It was good.

It's interesting. He's a very nice man and very interesting perspective and some really thoughtful commentary on how he's grown as a person and how he helps young men mature as people. And then the consistency of Tony Bennett. That one really jumped out of me, right? He's just consistent, everyday guy.

You can listen to the Doug Gottlieb show Daily 3 to 6 Eastern, 12-3 Pacific. There's consistency for you on Fox Sports Radio, the IHeart Radio app. We got more pods coming. You go back and you listen to some of the old ones, Justin Bean at Utah State, Ryan Odom, of course, UMBC. We have tons of them. You go back, Steve Prom, joined me. I know he just lost his job.

There's some really, really good ones. Anyway, I'm Doug Gottlieb. Thanks so much for listening. This is All Ball. If you love to be remembered as the person who gives the best birthday gifts, I'm here to tell you that 1800flowers.com is your ultimate birthday gifting destination. 1,800 Flowers has thoughtful and artfully created options that are guaranteed to deliver the best birthday surprise. Shop thousands of unique gifts at 1,800flowers.com for exclusive offers and great values.

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This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the eye heart.

radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Deanna Maria Riva, and on my new podcast, How Hard Can It Be? I call on my Gen X squad from Ohio to Hollywood as we navigate Midlife's most fantastic BS. Unfiltered conversations from night sweats to fupas to scheduling sex. Wait, what sex? Is it just me, or does every woman my age want to look at Pinterest instead of having sex sometimes? They say we can't polish a turd, but we're sure going to try. So let's get blunt with laughs, tears or tears of laughter.

Listen to How Hard Can It Be with Deanna Maria Riva on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The story I've told myself can then shape my behavior, and that can lead me to sabotage the possibility of connection. This Mental Health Awareness Month, tune into the podcast deeply well with Debbie Brown if you've been searching for a soft place to land while doing the work to become whole. This podcast is for you to hear more. Listen to deeply well with Debbie Brown from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.