The Herd with Colin Cowherd - All Ball March Madness Special - University of Hartford HC John Gallagher on Program Building, Philly Hoops, Tourney Experience

Episode Date: March 25, 2021

In this episode, Doug is joined by University of Hartford Head Coach John Gallagher. He discusses how he's built Hartford into a tourney team, growing up during a golden era of 90's Philly hoops, playing for Phil Martelli at St. Joseph's, his relationship with Loyola-Chicago, why he thinks they could beat Gonzaga, and the importance of making adjustments. Make sure you download, rate and subscribe here to get the latest All Ball Podcasts! Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying.

Yep, that's me, Clivert Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I put on 10. I was having trouble

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We got some great other pods coming up. I thought you would enjoy this one. John Gallagher is the head coach of the University of Hartford. He and I have been friends. He was great to me, knew my dad pretty well, grinder assistant, long time in college basketball. He'll tell about kind of his story, his own personal story. Of course, he made the neighborhood a popular word or term or whatever heading into the NCAA tournament.

Now, they lost in their appearance in the NCAA term, but there's a lot more to it, right? His unique style, his outgoing way, and by the way, his breakdown of how. How the hell loyalist Chicago thoroughly dismantled, dismembered Illinois. Wait to you here. You're going to love this. John Gallagher is the head coach of the University of Hartford. They won the American East tournament. He joins us now in the All Ball podcast.

Okay, so you did it, right? Not just made a tournament, but you became kind of that coach of the tournament. You're like, I got to have that guy on. Now we're like 48 hours removed from the whirlwind, which is winning. a conference tournament, going to the NCAA tournament, being on national TV, promoting your program. What's this been like? You know, when I was a player, 96, 97, Phil Martelli did it with the first St. Joe's team. So I got to see what he did. And I just took a page out of his book. And I think it worked out

well with him the next 20 years at that school. And I think you, when you're putting a position that we're put in as coaches, it's not about me. It's about selling the school and selling the program. So any interview I told everybody, I'm in. And you just have to give your time and self up. And you could sleep in, you know, you could sleep in April and May, as John Rothstein says. You could sleep later. Yeah.

I don't, I guess I don't understand. I do know that it's just not some people's personality, right, to do it. but I also don't really understand how you're a basketball coach if it's not part of your personality. That's the one, right? Like, well, you know, some guys, they just don't like the camera. They just don't like, what do you think your job is, whether you're recruiting to sell or with your players to sell them on the ideas that you're coaching them? And then, of course, now you're just kind of selling us on your program and your school. I guess that's the thing.

Like, it does, it falls right in line with your personality, which is great. And it's awesome. And it's just a natural. it doesn't appear to be fake or anything else. I just, I guess, that I don't understand some of the guys that are in your profession who aren't into it, not realizing that actually is the job. It is, and listen, we're all different, but for me, this is just who I am. But like last night, the Hartford Healthcare CEO invited me over, and one of the guys that's, you know,

with Powerbrook, Sunday night, you feel like I'm doing it. Let's go. We got to sell them. We can't stop. We'll rest when this run is over, but we got to keep on elevate season tickets. And I think, Doug, it speaks to something that in our business will be changing. If you can't fundraise, if you at jobs like Hartford, not at the high level, but jobs like Hartford, one third of the job is marketing and fundraising.

It is. Yeah. Hartford's interesting. And again, I want to go into your whole personal story. but it could fall in line with one of those jobs where because Yukon, I think Danny's got Yukon on a path being back, because Yukon is, you know,

like the Ryan Gohm story famously, right? Like when Yukon's really Yukon, they don't really recruit, they don't have to recruit that much in state. And there are some players there. And, you know, what happens is some of the local,

the prep schools up the road, right? You got New York City down the road. You got, you know, you have upstate New York where guys got to get, get missed because people fall in love with the higher level schools or higher level athletes and stuff. You kind of could be in a cool little window there. But I guess the question is, how come no one's been able to do it at Hartford?

Is it fundraising? Is it what what what was it? Because I know others that have been in your position that haven't been able to do it. And there were great coaches. So it's fascinating. here's a couple things. We have a thing called hashtag the neighborhood. So we just got everybody in the community involved.

And that was about four years ago. I said, You got to go over. Have you been to the Puerto Rican League? I have not, but I know everybody there. Mani, I know all the guys.

Listen, I played in it. It's actually not, it's actually pretty good hoop. And I was on a team a couple years when I was at ESPN. And you go in there and like, there's a lot of guys that played. and there'll be a couple fights, whatever, and there's people are cooking outside,

and you go into the gym, and I got to remember what Jim it is. I'll send a text while we're doing this. But yeah, it's like there's, Harper's got a little, it definitely has an affatuation for basketball. It is a basketball hotbed. And here's the thing.

They really like Yukon. And look, I root for Yukon, but it's the state school. Like, when we got this role going, you know, my best friend in town is a Puerto Rican firefighter named Jason Diaz, and he's the union boss. All the firefighters are, like, it is a hotbed for basketball. We just haven't knocked on the door and said, hey, we're available for you.

And I think we did that the last couple years, and attendance is really improved, and the energy around the program is finally here, that it's like, I don't think we, what Porter did, obviously Porter's one of my best friends. But Porter's like five years in. We're on a trip to Greece. And he's like, you know what? We don't get anybody into my games. Five years later, they're sold out.

They're sold out. If you win and you connect with the right people in the area, it can happen anywhere. I really believe that. I agree, too. It's like there's, it's sealed. There's no such a thing as a bad job, right? like there are jobs that have different challenges and but there's I remember you know we I had on

um God what's the name we I'm broken here we better edit this out let's say from um from southern Utah uh uh you could be you now or no Todd Simon Todd Simon we just had him on from southern Utah okay and when the southern Utah job was open there was a couple of the guys connected to the AD that I know they called me. They're like, hey, we need some, need a list, need some guys. And so I called, I was like, well, before I give you a list, let me call, call people and see if they're interested, you know. And I called a couple dudes that were like, packed 12 assistants, like, nah, I can't win

there. Can't win there. And then Todd's like, dude, like, it's challenging, but it's a beautiful arena. They love basketball. He's done a great job. He's done a great job. He won the league. He's a great coach.

He's done a great job. And look, I think where I'm at and why we've done it is like we flipped the script on like the four best years in school history have happened. And we finally solved sort of the like we played Vermont tough. And look, John Becker's won five championships. I've said it all week. Ryan Odom and John Becker are two of the best coaches in the country. You have to really figure it out. And we have a formula now.

And, you know, Seth Greenberg helped me with it. I'm not going to lie to you. Seth four years ago was like, John, you've got to get old and stay old. So we take a couple transfers every year. And then you just keep your program with the culture involved. And those kids end up loving it. Yeah, you know, the thing that sucks about those two that you mentioned is they won't leave. Like I had Ryan, right?

Most guys at that level, they go like, as is as good as a kid. part of the problem with Becker is he's got a great boss and he's got an unbelievable town to live in and they got it rolling and now they have a new place right he's like I don't need to what need to leave for like so I get my ass kicked in a bigger league in a in a in a worse city to live in and then Ryan you know Ryan has the ultimate upset he's like now they're back so they won the league this year most the reason that there's not consistency at your level is most guys win they're like get me out of here first first spot that's what makes yours more challenge okay so you mentioned playing for Phil Martelli. How good were you in high school? I was all, like, 13, All-Catholic

in the really hard league, Philadelphia Catholic League. I was a good high school player. I was not a good college player. And I figured it out that I wanted a coach. So I just said, let me dive into this. That's why you went to play for Phil? Yeah. And I dove into it. So, so, so, so, okay, what high school in Philly? Cardinal O'Hara. Is that where fan went? Fran McAfree? Fran went to LaSalle. The Fran was on the same area as Joe Mahalach. Joe was a little older than him.

Okay. So who are the your year? It's about my time, right? So who was the, Donnie Carr, Kobe Bryant, Yad Davis. Now, Kobe was in the long area. Kobe's year after me. Yeah, I was in 95. 94.

Tell me if you remember, there's a Philly Point Guard. He went by red. he had like black guy, black hair, black hair. Great guy. Red Smith from Gratz. Good, good buddy. He kicked my ass. Okay. This is true.

He was really good. Well, I didn't know that. Okay. So I went to me, I went to, uh, to, uh, to, uh, ABCD. Um, so my, going to my sophomore year was at UC Irvine by me and sunny is like, he ain't ready for that, you know. And then going to my junior, you're like, I was pretty good. And I went and we had a squad and then my dad coach.

And we, we, we, we, we, lost in the finals in Yipsalani. But I remember it was like, and I was just telling my son about this where he's like, dad, have you ever just gotten just, you know, or you just got worked in a game? And I was like, you know what? I'll tell you one time it absolutely happened. It was like ABCD camp, Yipsilene, Michigan was like a maybe like the third morning. We played the Philly team. And Red was like the back, maybe the backup point guard. The way it worked was there were like five in quarters, whatever, there was a coach's quarter, and you just played to win the coach's quarter, right? So there's two halves and you split the time. I mean, he just kicked my ass.

He was better than me. He was on a team. He was on a team with Rashid Wallace. Yes. That high school team was so good. So good. I mean. But I couldn't, I like, I just, I don't know, I don't, I don't remember a lot about that camp. And I'm like one of these I know stupid, like plays we ran and all this other stuff. That ass weapon is definitely embedded in my members. You can tell him, like, Godly remembers when you kicked his ass. And it was,

I'll text him. It was one of those, God, I hope nobody was watching that one because I was just not good. And then you're like, you're almost shell-shocked in your next game, because there's no real carryover because, you know, you got like four courts going and nobody's paying attention.

But for me emotionally, it was like, God, I just, let me just pass the ball and not do something stupid. And hopefully this guy doesn't abuse. me like that last guy did but he kicked my ass and so like the next year we were at fairly dickinson was where the the camp was and i remember getting ready for the philly team and i was like did that guy graduate oh you thank god thank god he he kicked my okay so so you're at card or her who who else did you have my high school coach my high school coach really famous high school coach

bud gardler he coached jean he coached jean or i'm he coached jean or i'm a steve donnyu Phil Martelli was his JV coach in the 70s. Wow, wow. This guy, like, I saw Coach Petino in the hallway. Iona, so how the bubble went, everybody had a room. So across from me was Michigan State. Diagonal was Oklahoma. Next to us was Iona.

So Patino, I didn't see him. He came around, and he goes. You know, he got Izzo, and you're like, and I got out drummer. Yeah, exactly. But I'm standing outside, like, waiting for art, you know, the rest of our food to come in. And Patino comes over and he gives me a hug.

And he's like, bug gardeners looking down and have, like, he, he was so excited. And if there's one thing that took me back was like how many guys came up to me, Bill Self, Mick Cronin, Mark Few, guys that I've known for 20 years, guys that have seen me work and they just, you know, grind it. And you just finally get to the fountain to drink a sip. Yeah. They were excited for our program, which I think I was kind of like in shock about. You shouldn't be.

I mean, I don't, it's like you're one of those guys that no one ever has a bad word to say about. So I don't, I just not. I do think that there's, there's not enough. Like, I don't think the NABC does enough, especially for, you know, assistant coaches that lose their jobs. You know, the head coaches get a buyout. And assistant coaches, you know, get a pink slip, right? but I do think that there is a brotherhood and a camaraderie.

It is a tough-ass job, right? And it's always interesting to me on how people in my profession at times will say, well, you know, all these guys are millionaires and they don't care about the kids. Like, what are you talking about? Like, have you ever, you have any idea what the set? You've been doing this for 20 years, you know, you're not killing it financially. And by the way, it's all about the kids because if you can't get the kids to buy in, You got no chance to win.

It's crazy the disconnect between the narrative of what you do and the reality of what you do. You're one of the few that understands it. And the disconnect is like people think we live in a look. Like the reality is I got four kids. And like Seth Greenberg says it like it doesn't, it's not what reality is. We don't become filthy rich doing it.

this. We don't. And we do it because we actually love it. Like I have a saying when I first started here is, look, I don't know how many titles we're going to win, but I'm going to have two tables at your wedding because we're going to have a great relationship. And you're going to be a part of a neighborhood field. And the amount of people, like, think about this. During COVID, we had 350 in change. Hartford fans and former players drive or fly

into Indianapolis where if you were at the game like Dana O'Neely. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential.

Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes, a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care which I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Clipper Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way,

this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment,

and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream,

this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people.

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I'm down to talk about crack on day, but yeah, yeah, literally. But just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table. right now. Thank you for finishing that sentence. Yes.

I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hard Way with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field. and conversations with so many incredible guests.

I'm talking. Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch.

Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross. Because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth? Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different. intentions, bro. Absolutely.

And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, as we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hardway. Open your free, our Heart Radio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. I've been said it in one of her pieces, like, you felt the energy of, and that 350 is like what Hartford used to get for a home game.

Correct. Yes. And we had that at an NCAA tournament game during COVID. And that's why I think, you know, the neighborhood feel, you know, we can really capitalize on it because, and I said this, like, Yukon has to be good. It helps our state. It helps basketball fans get excited about basketball. We need Danny that win. And you know what?

He's going to win. He'll have that program in the top 10 because he's relentless and he is relentless. But it has no effect on Hartford. We could still do it. We're basically, we could both be good. Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in the nation. Catch all of our shows at foxsportsradio.com. And within the IHard Radio app, search FSR to listen live.

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Yep. What do you remember? What was Phil Martelli like to play for when you first get there? You're a freshman. Okay. And you get there. What was he like? Well, the most shell shocking thing for me was the two of days.

And when we had two of days back then, and I'll never forget coming out of the locker room the first time or the coming into the locker room, I just laid on the floor after the second two a day, you know, going six hours. And I think what it made me realize is the amount of effort you need to be even a, I don't care who you, to be a division one player, the effort. I mean, everybody thinks they play hard. Everybody thinks you, like, look, my high school coaches, he became a great junior college coach, Annie Brown, he won a couple state championships, and he played, like, he gets it. But you think you work hard. Then you get to college.

my first two of days, Fram is from McAfee was an assistant. We're at Notre Dame. Yep. And I remember we're getting ready for practice. And they bring in these trash cans into the showers. Yep. I was like, why are trash cans in the showers? Like for the ice?

What's the ice for? They're like, bro, you're going to need to get in that ice bucket. I was like, what do you mean? Just trust this. You're going to have to get in that ice bucket. And so we get down with practice and the vets would get in there and they'd hold their nuts. and they step in there, you know, and they'd stay in for, you know, 10, 15 minutes,

and they'd hop out. And I was like, you know, I'm good, I'm fine. Like, it was just a practice. Then you come back that night and you go again. And now you look at the ice bug, you're like, then the next morning you wake up, be like, oh, my God, I'm so sore. I can't walk, you know.

That dude that cramp up and they can't, they got to get an IV. It was a shock. for me. So that level of effort that you need. And then the second thing for him is his unconditional love for his players. And like he just he just he has your back at all times. And you know, he, the reason people really love playing for him is he, he has great empathy and he can put himself in your shoes and he can motivate. And he's got a good plan. And the plan's detailed and it's thorough and he knows how to, but the feeling he gets that he can conjure up for you to play for him.

Okay. So this is, this is late 90s. Yep. Nova's got it rolling. Not yet. Yeah. No, no, no. No, I always say this.

Nova, if they don't lose the old Dominion game. Yeah. Steve Lapis is still the coach of Nova. Agreed. Like I played against that team. Okay, that team was loaded. Kerry Kittles, they had Chuck Corning. They had play.

Alvin, he had Ebers. Ebers was the shooter. Lawson. I mean, they had Alvin Williams. So we play them. I think I told the story of the pop before. We play him on January 2nd at the pavilion. And Fran's doing the scout.

He's like, look, here's what we're going to do. We're going to, Doug, you're going to, you know, no splits. You're going to help off of Alvin Williams. Ball goes down to Corrigay in the post. You don't. The ball goes to Lawson, you double. Okay, kiddos gets on the wing. You go and you're automatically, you're at the elbows and help.

And I'm like, cool, I got it. Ebers gets it, run over there and be an extra body, okay? Basically kind of like one-man zone. And all of a sudden, like Alba Williams, like, wap, whack, whack, whack, and we get to the first TV timeout, and he's got 11. I said, Fran, can we change this shit up? This guy's about to give me 80, okay? He's like, you want to leave those guys on Ireland?

I go, I don't want to give up 80. God have garden. That team was really, really good. And they had John Celestan out the bench who the first round pick was a stud point guard. Really good. But nonetheless,

anyway. But so they, and then what, I guess after that, they took a little bit dip before they got it going again? Yeah, they took a little dip and then Steve, Coach Lapis went to UMS and then Jay came in.

Okay, so but, but, okay, so I'm lining up You're at St. Joe's. Temple is rolling then. Rolling. Rolling. Okay. Penn is rolling. Rolling. Okay.

Don't recall anything else about LaSalle at that time. Well, they, LaSalle had Russell Butler, and he was a one-man show at that time in college. And then there's Drexel, which we don't talk about, right? People like pretend like it doesn't exist. Like, oh, it's not in the city series, but not the big five. Well, the one thing, Drexel was being talked about when Malik Rose was there. It's true. It's a good point.

And I like, I fell in love with LaSalle back when they had, when Speedy was the coach. And what was the little point guard they got drafted by the Clippers? They had Randy Woods. Randy Woods, who bad pro, but great college player. Great college player. Great college player. Before my game, this is really funny. I was texting back and forth with Lionel Simmons, the L-Train.

L-Train. Yeah. It was my favorite college player. So I sent him a message before the night before the game just saying, hey, listen, I'm friends with him. So I said, I just want you to know I'm here because of you. I dreamt about, he was my hero as a kid. And now I'm doing something that nobody ever thought we could do at Hartford.

And I go back to my childhood that night, I sent him a message. He sent me the nicest message. He sent me the nicest message back. like really, really touching message. And the train, I mean, he was as good as a college player as... No, he was a bucket. He was a bucket. He was a bucket.

And look, I mean, look, and here's the, here's for the Philly thing. Like, I was, you know, 31 years ago, Hank Gathers died, you know, and I saw him, I saw him play a pickup game at Cal State Northwich, the Pump Brothers. It was like their first camp and they had, like, Hey, it's like a sleepaway camp. And, you know, the Pum Brothers, you know, they're such bullshit artists. I mean, I love them. But basically there was like 20 of us.

And I was from like an hour and a half away. So they put us up at the Kaltesee North Bridge dorms, even though the camp was like at Campbell Hall High School. Anyway, so we go and watch the counselors play at night. And Hank Gathers is playing. And I never, even though I was in Southern California, I didn't know who Hank Gathers was. Because I saw him play a little bit at USC, but not a lot. And Bo at USC.

they're bad that year. I just remember walking away from the gym going, that's the most athletic big guy I've ever seen in my life. Like he just ran and jumped and he was faster stronger than everybody. And then he died. And I was at the game when they beat New Mexico State and Bo shot the ball. First free to the left hand and it made it. There's all kinds of little Philly connection.

Okay, so how good were you guys at St. Joe's when you were there? Well, we lost in a Sweet 16 in Kentucky. We beat. So we were the Atlantic 10 champion. Boston College was the big East champion, and we beat him in the second round. Donnier Abrams, that was that BC team, Scooney Penn, and we beat him in second round in Salt Lake City. And then we advanced to the Sweet 16, and we lost to Ron Mercer, Derek Anderson, runner up for the national title. That was the year Kentucky lost in the-95-96?

96-97. Okay, that was when they lost a miles. Okay, yeah, I set out that year. And that was your freshman year? That was my first year, yep. What was that like? I thought, this is easy. We'll be back every year.

Like, I had zero idea on how hard this is. Zero. And, you know, it was a grind. And I've learned so much about it, but I reflect on that team. And the reality is, and it stays true today, in March, if you can't defend, you can't win. You have to be able to defend. And these games are, I don't care who it is,

these games are playing out that way. Yeah, I mean, we saw Iowa earlier today. That was not good. And I'm, look, I'm friends, one of my guys. The reality is, even look, if you look at the Loyola team yesterday with Illinois, they were the best defensive team in, like. It was, what they were able to do was really, really remarkable. I was, and I like Brad a lot. I was a little disappointed in terms of the,

they didn't adjust. They just kind of did what they do, right? When somebody's switching, I always thought when somebody's switching, you got a back cut, you got a curl, and on ball screens, you got a screen and re-screen, right? And then, and as college basketball has become, when you come out these ball screens, a lot of people just load up to the ball. Like, you've got to skip that, skip that ball. They didn't throw one skip past the entire game. other thing is like we we we, we, I'm on these zooms with Porter and Steve Donnyu and David Patrick and Jeff Van Gundy and the Mahalix and and all of us are on and Porter did it did a three hour segment

on the icing the ball screens right and I don't ice. So I've really thought about it. We had these debates about it. And when he said like in my mind, I'm thinking, man, he's not, he has a thing called, uh, ice to the picked up dribbler. You don't leave until the ball's picked up. So, like, they wouldn't leave.

And what happens is, is if you can't put them in rotations, like a big Rick Majeris line is, and Porter says it all the time, the team that can start the domino, meaning start the chasing is going to win. The team that can never get into a domino, you're going to choke them out. And Illinois just couldn't never start.

the domino. And that's a, like, Porter, and I'm not just, he's such an elite basketball coach, elite that his terminology and the way he teaches it is on another level. And like, I'm sitting here and I'm reviewing my notes, how do we get to that next level? That's how hungry we are. And people are saying, I should be enjoying it. I'm trying to figure out next year on how we get better. And that's the drive. That's the, that's the drive you have. So you get done playing, right? And this is 2000. Yep.

Right? To get done 2000. So 2000, again, Temple is really good. I know they were supposed to play us in the tournament. How good were you guys your senior year? At the year, not very good. We were a year away from Jamir showing up. Did you guys know?

Did people know, like, how good that crew was? Jamir, I don't think so. I mean, when Jemir came, I was gone. I became an assistant at LaSalle. Yeah. But he, I mean, his, the first day he got the St. Joe's they knew. They knew. So, okay, so you get done.

What was the decision like to decide you want to become a coach? I knew right away. That's what I wanted to do. I had no interest in going into. So did, but Phil didn't offer you a spot like, hey, you should stay here. He wanted me to wait. He wanted me to wait. to wait and Speedy offered me a job. So I had no choice. I was a third assistant in the Atlantic 10 at

22. What are you going to do? Now, I've been to LaSalle. That's a tough job to recruit to, right? There's not much facility. The campus, in comparison to the other field of schools, those campuses are outstanding. It's not like it's a terrible campus, but it's not comparable to the Novas. It's not Penn, obviously. I mean, Temple, obviously, like, good luck. Not getting shot. But what was, so you're 22. How did you learn how to do the deal?

Well, like guys took me under their wing. I mean, I said this the other day, like Fran Dumpty and Steve Donnyu and Speedy. Oh, my gosh. All these guys really just, they made me. I didn't get here because of myself. They sort of schooled me on how Philadelphia basketball works. And Phil Martelli has a great line. I think it's really true.

You could talk bad about people in Philly if you're from Philly. But if you talk bad, if someone from Philly talks bad to you about them, you don't like that. And that's Philadelphia basketball. Like if somebody from Philly wants to say something bad about me, that's fine. But if you leave the city and somebody says something bad about you, you protect him. And that is true, 100% true on Philly basketball. No one takes a shot at a guy that is in his city. They protect each other. It is a brotherhood. And it's crazy, but like you might have a problem with somebody,

but you never talk about it with somebody outside the city. Right. So you're at, at, at the South. How good were you guys? We were my, my, We started 7 and 0 one year. And Donnie Carr, who's the best player on our team, goes down. And he was it. And the thing I learned there, and this is really important, is like, the administration didn't want Speedy a round anymore. This is 20 years ago.

And if they don't want you around, they can figure a way to make enough roadblocks for you. And look, It wasn't the, it's like at that time, these jobs became about infrastructure. And, you know, I was sitting in an AAU game once, and Kelvin Samson had a great line about five years ago to me. He said, John, good coaches can make good teams, but administrators win championships. They determine if we win championships. And he meant like, if they support you and give you infrastructure, if they put up roadblocks, you end up spending a lot of time on non-basketball things.

And I thought Speedy, the last two years, we did that. Who is it Lafayette when you went there? Fran O'Hanlon, still there. Right. The genius. The best offensive basketball mind I've ever been around. What about him? What about it makes him such a good offensive coach?

So if, like, Porter, if they did what him did yesterday, he would have never set a ball screen the whole game. He would have never set a ball screen the whole game. He would have ran a guy up and slipped him to the other. I don't care how big he was. He would have created a gap that would have been so big. He was a big guy on if they're going to do something creative, just don't set it and sprint through and get space.

and when you overthink it like he was 20 years ago he was doing dribble handoff, throwback, drive it. His offensive mind, even to today is fascinating. Come out of a timeout and a team play zoner man, he would have a play that worked against zone and man. Doesn't matter. Run it. He was a very deep thinker. This is away from the chronological order I like to do.

but have you been in a situation like Brad was in? Because I'm sure they came in and look, you only got a day to prep. And I actually think it's harder to be the one seed in that case, not just because, you know, you're Illinois and you're looking at Loyola, I don't care they went to Final Four. Those dudes are like,

we just kicked everybody's ass in the Big Ten. You know, like they're still kids. Yep. But you don't know who you're prepping for. So each is two assistants taking all the tape, right? And then you watch him play. We're like, all right, we got loyal. Now you got one day to prepare for a great coach and a program is totally locked in.

They know who they are. That's hard to do. But have you ever been on one of those situations where, like, it just felt like it got away from him? And he tried a couple of things. I don't. And again, I want to make sure this is really, really clear. Look, he's a very good coach. He should have got the K-State job when he's the assistant there.

He takes the Stephen F. Austin job. They win. Takes the Oakland State job. They win. takes the Illinois job, they win. The dude can coach. But anybody has everybody, anybody's ever coached, you have a day where it gets away from me.

And it gets away from you really, really quick. Okay. So first, there's a series of question. Have you had a game like that where the plan you thought you had for what you knew the other team was going to do just wasn't working? Have you had one of those? Yeah, third year here, UMBC, first round. They weren't very good.

we were really good. We were 17 and 12 at the time, and that's really good for Hartford. And we came out, we lost in the first round. I can still tell you, I... So what did they do? What did they do that screwed you up? They switched one through four,

and the five man just dropped. And... Sounds kind of like what we saw yesterday. Yeah. And what happens is you end up... We were up... We actually, it's different. We were up in the game.

And we got to. Was it fools gold were you up? Because sometimes you can throw a couple in and you're like, you know, we're all right anyway. But really, they weren't the best shots. And so sometimes you're winning, but you're not, you kind of in your back of your mind. Like, this might not work long term. I mean, when you're, it was it screwing you up the whole game? Were you chasing it and trying to figure it out?

We were chasing lineups. What were trying to do? We were chasing lineups. I moved too many guys. And, you know, we should have just, it should have been an easier game than it was. And I oversimplified it. And here's one way that I think, like, the reality is, Brad, in that game, I don't think Porter's offense is getting enough credit.

Like, people are talking about the defense. The offense controlled the game from the pick and roll, the handoffs, the ring. I mean, and Cruttwig, you run into a team, and it's nothing to do with Brad. I'm just telling you, that's a hundred games that kid's played for Porter Moser. Yeah. When that kid catches it at the elbow, literally Porter Moser's in his mind. So it's just different. I mean, Porter can really, they could win it all this year.

They really could. I actually believe you're, I believe you're right. I don't think they can beat Gonzaga, but it's not crazy. So here's my thing. And I'm going to go through this with you. The reason they can be Kanzaga, and I love Fuey. And Fewy checks in on me. When I was down and out, Fuey was checking in on me.

Like, why is he checking on in the Hartford guy? Because he's a good person. He's an amazing guy. He's texting me the Whalers win, the Wailers win. I mean, he loves checking in on guys that he's just a coach's coach, Fewy. The only reason, and I'm not saying, it is because I do think Gonzaga wins it. But I think Porter has a shot because they resemble the really good St. Mary's teams.

But they're the slowest pace in the country. They're not going to let Gonzaga beat him by 20. No one's beating him by 20. Now the flip side of it is Porter's not going to beat you by 20 in these games. Like the final score yesterday was 71.58. It felt bigger than. It felt like 50. That's what I'm saying.

It felt like 50. Well, okay, so let's have the coaching discussion since it's obvious like neither of us give a shit, okay? So here's a deal. So Brad's deal, and he's vastly on this because when he got to Oklahoma State, you know, he played like he did at Stephen Apple, where they were up, way up the line, way, way, way up the law. And, you know, just and completely overpressuring you. And they got into the Big 12 and that shit didn't work. Right, everybody just spread them out and get angles and, you know, finally.

the weak link and drive the week link and they got anything they want and so he actually changed midseason to running some pack line and then you go back to last year at illinois he went from way up the line to it wasn't necessarily pack line but it was a little bit more help oriented this year because they had the big fella they left him and he just sank right he just one man and then everything else they didn't really help they didn't really help they just pressured and got India and they didn't really help. And you're, you're right. I haven't heard anybody say, hey, Porter Mosier, look what they're doing with handoffs. Look how they're using Kurtwig. And they basically put poor Kofi Coburn in two on ones, right, where he's backpedaling and

he got Kurtweig one side or in ISOs. And even like, even if he misses, it doesn't really matter because the big kid can't foul and he's trying to block shots and you get offensive rebounds and footbacks. So I guess the first thing is like, I do wonder some coaches have this, this is who we are, these are our rules, and this is how we play. But what about when it's clearly not working and the other guy knows what you're doing and has kind of the answers to what you're doing? You have two options. The big kid, he's got to come out and guard the elbow harder. Okay. And the reality is Brad knows his personnel better than me. I'm not debating that. All I'm saying is, Brad is like what Brad has done in his time in Illinois.

I flew with Brad down to San Antonio when Porter was playing. You know, when Loyola was in the Final Four, we had a two-hour conversation. He's in a league coach. What happens in that time just saying Porter's team is so connected and so like they, that's a, those two guys for Porter, for, for, for, for Prattwig. and the defender Williamson. Yeah. I mean,

they played 100 college games together. That's, would you have gone, I wondered, would you have gone small? Like he does have the personnel. He hasn't done it. And he did at the end of the game,

but it's too late. Like, I just, this is a little bit like I had a conversation with him. After they lost you at B.C. And his thing was, you know, like,

I mean, I lost my best player. And I said, But Tony, like, you knew you were going to win 30 games with that team. Why not take a look early in the season? What's it look like if we don't have him? What's it look like we go small? What's it look like, you know, like play a little left-handed.

Okay, maybe you lose a game in December you shouldn't lose. But then you win one in March. In that game, though, how hard is that when you've done something and you've been successful? And that's been incredibly successful. And you're 30 games into a season. and now all of a sudden all the stuff you've done and worked on, that shit ain't working. Like how hard is that to go like,

let's go small and do it in the first half when you feel like you might have a problem that you have to solve the second half. And you can't really go take a look at it in the second half when you're down 10 points. It's really hard because the big kid was so crumpt. If you do that, Porter has a package where he just puts the kid on the block. And then he's just going to go to work on those kids.

and I know it's you got to try everything, but I think you just end up, like at some point, you have to tip your hat and just say, you know what, the rambler. I know as a coach you can't at the game during that game. You got me, right? You got me. Yeah.

I mean, like Porter is at the point now in his career where he's got it so dialed in with his culture and his program, It is Rick Majeris. And it's, it's, it has so many qualities of a Majeris, like, and now it's Porter's, like, way. But like Porter and I have talked about it. And this, like the little sayings that Porter has are just fascinating. And I steal a lot of it.

Yeah. No. I mean, why wouldn't you? Yeah. So, part the domino. I mean, for you at Lafayette, why did you leave and go to Hartford as a sister? Because Dan leave. which was one of my best friends, still is.

And he said, come on up. Let's go try to build this together. And in our second year, we got to the finals. And I was just, I was really excited about being up here in Hartford. I was here two years. And then Penn called to be assistant at Penn. And I had to go back home. And it just worked out that after two years of Penn, this job opened.

And I went with Steve Dunnyu for 14 days. to BC for 14. And then this job opened, then I took it and I've been here ever since. How'd you get the job? You know what? They called me and they said, look,

you ran the offense. We want to talk to you about both sides of the ball. I'll never forget. I called Dan. I said, Dan, are you okay with this? He said, sure. And we're still really close.

I mean, it was, and I thanked him. The first person I thanked on ESPN was Dan Lieberwitz after the game. And it just came out of me. And Dan is a part of this program. A lot of Dan's philosophies are a part of this. And the turnover thing is so big in our program. It's so big with Dan.

That turnover margin is it gives you chances to win when you don't play well. How'd you make it happen? Like how do you get to a place and what Dan, the reason he left was he didn't feel like he had the backing of the administration. He didn't feel like there was a light at the end of that tunnel. And he's a pretty positive dude, right? And so, so how'd you go about building it? Now it's your first, you never been a head coach before. So, but you've been a part of these other programs. How'd you go about building? It became my first two years, just, you think you know, but you know, you get scarred up.

and I got scarred up pretty good. And then your third and fourth year, we had really- Give me one example. My first team should have won more games. If you look at the first, we lost games at the bazaer. I was, I was just an okay ATO coach. I think I'm,

you look at the numbers, pretty good at a timeout. You have to be a good out of timeout coach. You be a good college coach. You have to be. You cannot not be good. Okay. And it goes for both sides of the,

ball. Like, are you going to, how are you going to, you can't allow someone to come out of a timeout and score on you. If you see somebody scoring on side of a timeout, I get, I get violently mad at myself. Do you switch, do you change defenses? Yes. Beat me somehow, do something else other than what you drew up. Yeah. No, it's, it's, it's, it's, uh, I don't know if you know this story. I told the story, I think with Ryan Odom was on the pod two weeks ago. And Franny told Franie told me the story. He said he's playing for Kyle Tacey, away forrest.

They're playing against Lefty-Jurzel at Maryland. Four seconds ago on the game. And they got the ball underneath their own bucket. Down one, chance of school. They call time out. They come over, and Tacey's in assistance. And Dave Oden was one of the assistants. And they're like arguing over what to run.

They run out of time. First buzzer sounds. He comes over and he's like, Franny, put him in some. He's fresh and point. So he like gathers them up. You're like, all right, we're running two, right? So they get there and they line up and left Jerzell looks at their alignment,

calls timeout, right? Because he want to see what they're running so he can set up his defense to him. And he's like, that was the moment that I knew I should coach. We got one great coach who can't even figure out what he wants to run. And the other guy is trying to wait to see what he wants to run and then calls another time out to give the other guy a chance to draw something up. I got to get into this business. It's amazing.

So, but, but, but it is, it's, it's fascinating on how games are won and lost, couple possessions here or there. And yet for a long time, there wasn't, I don't think nearly as much attention to detail on those, you know, like, it's no different than football with Red Zone and soccer with set pieces. Like with basketball, like, those are, you can either score 10 points a game or zero, and that's the difference in winning and losing. Yeah, like the special situations are so. paramount. And we work on them every day. It's like we call it special teams where it's

baseline out of bounds, sideline out of bounds, whatever it is. Do you do end of game, end of game, end of clock? All the time. It feels like, it feels like that's one thing, though, this tournament has exposed a little bit is there's a lot of, and I'm not a big fan of the call in the timeout to go and run an ISO or a high ball screen. Like, what did you, you could have done that in front of your own bench. But there are lots of times when guys come down and it doesn't feel like there's automatics. for a lot of these teams and they're really good coaches. Do you notice that or do you feel like, like,

here's what I noticed about Villanova. I don't know if you, when Jay won it with his last segment, pitched back to Christian, I went back and looked, and I think they ran that thing like 13 times during the season. And he played 40 games and he, that user lose a timeout, he would always call and they would, if. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games.

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Yep, that's me. Clipper Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated.

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They had 10 or less. That's what they were running. They ran the Big East tournament and I think Archie Diakno fell down. But the idea is like they had a plan and they had tried that plan in games. Whereas other guys, I think they get caught up in the game and in the moment and they don't have a plan. So your special situations, do you run them all the time? You say, hold them in your back pocket. How do you choose when you're going to do it and how you're going to do?

Well, I think you have to work on them all the time. I think it's sort of a feel in when you use them, but like what we stole from the NBA or, you know, I think NBA guys are so great at it. They have five or six things that they know they're going to no matter what in this spot. And the NBA is so lead at it. And, you know, like, all right, who we going? If you need one, five men to get a basket, four man, three man, two men, you have to have that. And it's got to be second nature to your team.

cannot be any thought. They have to know exactly what you're doing. And that's something I think in the NBA. And I do think, like Steve Donnie, who's offensive mind, he has that down. And who he wants to get the ball to in a spot, in a situation. I think, I think really is an advantage. Who's the best coach that you have a lot of that you mentioned, that you coach against maybe in your league that you're like,

guy's really, really good. In our league, Bill Herring, I mean, Bill Herring in New Hampshire is just so good, it's so hard to play against. Pat two-kette at UMass Lowell. They're good. He's, he has the number one offense the last three years, really, really good ball coach. And, you know, in our league, it's such a well-coached league. You know, Gino Ford does a great job at Stony Brook. It's a hard, hard, hard league. That's why the back-to-backs this year brought a different dimension than I've never seen before because

you're playing the same team with the same referees in 48 hours. It gets heated that last that second day. No question. I already breathed that content. All right, last last thing. In five years, what's John Gallagher doing? Head coach

of the University of Hartford in the neighborhood selling the place out, hopefully multiple championships, and the goal's here to be a long time. I'm not chasing anything. I'm not that smart. You know what I'm saying? I love it here too much. All right.

You're the best. I appreciate you joining me. And let's talk more as this tournament, because I'm learning more from listening to you about this tournament than I am watching myself. I appreciate it. Let's text each other because I'd love to stay on with you. All right.

We'll do it. And if Porter gets to the final four, we'll do a whole preview. Okay. I'm in. Let's do a whole preview of the Sweet 16 matchup anyway. Let's do it. All right, perfect. I love it.

See it. Talk soon. Bye. Whether you're a student, looking for a new career, or a building professional who wants new skills, PG&E offers free online training on energy efficiency and electrification. Enroll at pg.e.com slash training. What grows in the forest? Trees?

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The Doug Gottlieb shows daily, 3 to 6 Eastern, 12 to 3 Pacific on Fox Sports Radio or the IHeart Radio app where you can download the podcast wherever you download podcast. It's really that easy. In the meantime, thank you so much for listening. I'm Doug Gottlieb, and this is All Ball. Did you know Amazon provides ways of working that fit your lifestyle? They know you value your time outside of work, juggling family, school, friends, or other activities.

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Yep, that's me. Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfills of conversations with athletes,

creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to The Clifford show on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged.

It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, what's good, y'all? You're listening to learn the hard weight with your favorite therapist and host, Kear Games. This space is about black men's experiences, having honest conversations that it's really not safe to have anywhere, but you're having them with a licensed professional who knows what he's doing. How many men carry a suit or armor?

It signals to the world that you're not to be played with. And just because you have the capability that does not mean that you need to, listen to learn the hard way on the IHard radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. This is an IHart podcast. Guaranteed human.