The Herd with Colin Cowherd - All Ball - NBA Ratings; Lakers, Clippers, Bucks 1st Rd. Breakdown and Draft with Jason McIntyre and Hoops Writer Kurt Helin

Episode Date: August 22, 2020

In this episode, Doug discusses the dip in NBA bubble ratings, and gives his analysis on the early first round performances from the Lakers, Clippers and Bucks.NBC Sports lead NBA writer Kurt Heslin and FS1 contributor and host of the Straight Fire pod, Jason McIntyre, break down the first round matchups and discuss top prospects heading into the NBA Draft. Make sure you download, rate and subscribe here to get the latest All Ball Podcasts! Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Oh, yeah. Now we're a couple of games into the NBA playoffs. A quick promotional note, the Doug Gottlieb show is available. Fox Sports Radio, Iheart Radio app, 12 to 3 Pacific Coast time, 3 to 6 Eastern Time. Here's what I'm going to do. I'm going to give you a couple of bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang thoughts. And then what I will do is we'll get to the NBA draft and the NBA draft. lottery. Okay, so look, in regards to the NBA's ratings being down, I think 40% year to year in terms of playoffs last year to playoffs this year on ESPN.

One of the things that the NFL has maintained, for the most part, is the integrity of their calendar, right? Now, Thursday, obviously, has changed that, but there's a certain selectivity to win NFL games are on. and what I think the NBA is experiencing now is the same thing they've experienced in the regular season with their ratings since the new TV deal came in, which is just, it's just too much. We went from not having any live sports to there's not, doesn't seem to be a moment where there's an NBA game that's not on. You know, so I truly believe this. This is my true belief that there are portions of a bunch of different stories, which, have caused the NBA's ratings to be down. The primary of which, the biggest of which is, I think there's just a lot of games on.

There's not an importance to it. You can't tell regular season to postseason. You know, we now have baseball on all the time, and it just becomes background noise. It's become a little bit of what baseball has always been for me in the summer, which is, or golf, right? You leave it on, you come in, you go out, you don't really pay attention to it, and then you watch in key moments. And I think that's a good portion of it. I also believe that, look, you don't have a couple of the best players and most watchable.

Kevin Durant and Kyrie Irving aren't playing for the Brooklyn Nets. Like, I understand that KD is coming back from a catastrophic injury. He will have missed more time with this injury than any other star player has ever missed with an Achilles tendon. And that would have been the same case even if he played in the bubble. So this idea that he's not ready, he may not have been himself, but he absolutely was ready to play. He was already working out and playing. And then, you know, Kyri, so the first portion is, let me give credit to Adam Silver because the bubble has gone off relatively without a hitch. There obviously are some pitfalls to it, which I said you would see coming, which is, you know, guys in this environment for two, three months, you're not always going to get optimum performance out of them.

And that's happened. that's happened, it probably on some level gets worse. There'll be some atrophy in terms of some of their mental muscles because you're just, now there's been a positive to it and that it does feel like there's better chemistry with these teams than there's ever been. But in the mistakes that Adam Silver has made being a player's commissioner, I think, you know, not working behind the scenes to, for example, get Kevin Durant and Kyrie Irving to play, that hurts the league. of the 10 most recognizable stars to play on a team which is based in New York City and offered to not play.

I mean, look, DeAndre Jordan had COVID, but he would have been recovered in time. Obviously, Spencer Dinwiddie went through a lot, but the idea that Brooklyn and their top players opted out, that hurts you. Then you have Golden State that has at least one, if not the most popular, well-liked, beloved player in the game in Steph Curry. plus they have the championship credo and I understand that they didn't belong in the bubble that the 22 teams was just about right but I'm talking about the reality of why the ratings are down which is like look you have no KD no Kyrie no staff no clay no Draymon and then you do have a lot of player movement where it does become really hard to wait Westbrook's on the rockets but also by the way isn't playing in the playoffs and and LeBron it still hasn't clicked yet in terms of of LA. I don't know. I just I think Zion was a disappointment. Like, what is the reason for watching Eastern Conference basketball

in the playoffs? There isn't much. There isn't much. I think we're all in awe of the talent and the spectacle that is Janice, but he's just not he's not yet as refined as KD, and he's not the

name of some of these other American-born stars. So I think I think the Eastern Conference continuing to not really have many storylines that are good ones worth sharing. The Lakers thing hasn't hit, hasn't become a thing. One of your best teams,

your favorite by many people to win it is the Clippers, which has no national following. In addition to Kauai being silent for so many years, and Paul George switching teams, it's the Clippers. No one really grew up a Clippers fan. So you have these things kind of working against you, if you will.

And then, look, I think at least a portion of it is the league's embrace of the social justice warriors and the Black Lives Matter movement. I don't, like, I'm not personally offended in any way, but I would guess that if you did studies, and some people would inflate it, there'd be plenty of people like, I wasn't watching the NBA because they had Black Lives Matter, like, well, were you going to watch the NBA beforehand? The answer is probably no. But still, like, you run the risk when you align politically,

no matter how good a cause, you know, in terms of sincere your intentions are, it becomes divisive because it's politics. And whether or not you agree with the BLM movement or just the statement of Black Lives Matter, which I think everybody, like, you know, who's going to argue that? No one. Or no one should argue. I think what's happened is, and some of it is smart positioning by the other side, which is if you say Black Lives Matter, you somehow align with the movement, which, all right, what portion of the movement? Do you go by the statement, you know, on the website or just the idea that social justice reform is needed?

And that police brutality has been a problem for far too long for minorities, right? Like there's a, it's so complex that when we get into the, but that's not what happens, right? political statement is made, sides are drawn, and I'm sure at least a portion of people like, I'm never watching the NBA again. And you can say good riddance if you're an NBA player. But it's a lot like when you do national radio. Like we all, or a podcast, we all want to speak our minds and have our opinions and understand that if your opinion comes from a place that's not based upon hate in any way, it's just

how you feel and you're not violating anybody else's right. rights, like, you want to be supported for your opinion. But the reality is, some opinions, especially when they become political or politicized, are so divisive that you run the risk of losing a good portion of your audience. That's always been, like, look, that's what happened to the Dixie Chicks. That's what happened to the Dixie Chicks. So I don't know how, I would love to see a study on what portion of people who previously watched the NBA aren't watching the NBA this year and politics are legitimately a reason why when I think a lot of it is talk or a lot of it is people that weren't watching the NBA anyway saying it.

But I do believe that even the blindness of blind men could see that in the litany of things that could play a factor as to why the NBA isn't rating as well, the embrace of the Black Lives Matter movement and the politicized kind of league being to the left, I would. I would guess hurts it. I would guess it absolutely hurts it. I don't think that's an unreasonable guess or guesstimation as to what exactly is going on. All right, let me give a couple thoughts on some of these teams. Let's start with the Lakers. So the Lakers in back-to-back games have held the Portland Trailblazers to 100 and then 88 points. And there's been a lot of talk about Anthony Davis, who's great in game two after being disappointed in game one or LeBron James. And we can get into that discussion. But the most important thing is what I learned about professional basketball and I was I was told it, but you have to like learn it to know it.

And it's the expression that pros do what they do best, right? They do it they do best. Whereas amateurs try to prove to you that they can do what you say they cannot. That's the difference. You know, a true pro will, if all he should. shoots his corner threes, always going to shoot his corner threes. If, you know, Sadale Threat was a scoring guard in the NBA, and I'll never forget that Sadale Threat, and you have to go back and look at analytics, but if he went left, he would

almost always dribble his left hand before he would shoot a pull-up jump shot. He went left, felt like a 70% shot. He went right, felt like a 30% shot. So you know what Sadale-3 always would find a way to do? dribble that left hand before he'd shoot. Tony Parker, same thing. watching when he makes a move to the right, he would always bring that ball back

and one dribble with the left, and it would help his shooting percentage. Pros do what they do best. Well, what do the Lakers do best? Defend. I hear you on wanting to play, you know, wanting to play J.R. Smith who hit three-threes.

You know, wanting to play some of the other guys in terms of getting some more offense, Dion Waders, for example. But the L.A. Lakers became the one seat in the West based upon their defense. and that has not let them down in either game. A hundred points for the Trailblazers, considering how high power they are. That's outstanding 88's even better.

But the big question is, can the Lakers still score when they have their defensive lineup out there? Last night, the answer was yes. Anthony Davis decided I'm just going to take over and Nirkich can't guard me. But that hasn't always been the case, and that's one of the things that gives you pause as they head deeper into playoffs. I thought the Houston Rockets have, we talked about cohesion. Maybe it's because James Hardin can't go to a strip club. Maybe it's because they don't have Russell Westbrook, and yet he's trying to lead,

but not having one of your stars gives greater opportunities to all the bench guys that are normally behind him and James Hardin. But whatever it is, they seem to be playing hard, tough, smart, and winning games in the bubble, specifically in the playoffs. The L.A. Clippers, I would guess that their biggest issue, again, this is by my estimation, their biggest issue, is I don't think they should have traded for Reggie Jackson. I think they should have, I have no problem with them, you know,

getting another guard, especially when they acquired Reggie Jackson. They had all kinds of other injuries in their film room. Now, everybody is, for the guard's perspective, everybody is healthy. So that shouldn't be an excuse for stashing some guys away. But I do think it's really interesting that we're talking about a team that has acquired Reggie Jackson. and now it's like all he knows how to do is score. He doesn't know how to run a team.

And then you have Landry Shamit, who's coming off of COVID, but can really shoot, and I think he's a better defender than Reggie, and doesn't have the ego of Reggie. It doesn't have the experience either, but he's never been scared. Like, I think the Reggie Jackson thing really screwed him up. In a team that's trying to find chemistry, you screwed up the chemistry even worse. And then you got the Milwaukee Bucks, who are fascinating, right? obviously they were great.

The second game against Orlando, terrible, the first game against Orlando. But the big thing is, have people figured out how to guard Janus? Well, not last night if you were Orlando, where you just give him so much space. But you have to get to his body. You have to get to him early. And then in the half court, you got to hope that he settles for jump shots. And sometimes you want him to make one early. I'll say this.

I don't think, I think the Lamar Jackson comparison is a good one just because they're such freakish athletes. they take over in the regular season, but the postseason is a quarterback you have to be able to throw. And, you know, you're talking about 35, 40 times a game, leave a team from behind. The same thing is true in basketball as he tries to replace, you know, Tim Duncan. And I just don't see that happening. I don't see a trade happening. I'm not sure exactly what they're doing. But I look at the bucks, and I think to myself, as much as Janus is not yet refined enough,

to maybe win this thing on his own, I have a hard time thinking that Brooke Lopez is good enough at what he does. As a three-point shooting big, also a bit of a rim protector, rebounder. Like, he's just not a great three-point shooter. He's not a great rebounder. He's not a great rim protector. He's good at all these things, and he can also score this back to the basket, but he doesn't do so often, and he would get in their way.

I'm not sure if that's a good, as much as we say great things about the Lippers, how good is their lineup actually? Lou Williams would come out the bench for whomever is in the playoffs because he can't guard, he takes crazy shots, and this is a role in which he's embraced. You can like Lou Will, which I do, but also be real about what his skill set entails. They don't have a great inside game.

Montres Harrell is a good finisher, but he's not a great rebound or a shot block or whatever, just a high-energy guy. So this is me telling you I do think that they're beatable. Even if they're not the one seat, I really think they're beatable. And I think that Janice's flaws in that if you can keep them out of the lane and you can make some of the other players beat you, they just don't have the ability to beat you on their own.

Be sure to catch the live edition of the Doug Gottlieb show weekdays at 3 p.m. Eastern, noon Pacific, on Fox Sports Radio and the IHeart Radio app. Let me welcome in Jason McIntyre. Of course, Jay Mack has the Straightfire podcast, which is available on the IHeart Radio app every day. Hot news topic of the day. Of course, she's the founder of the big lead. All right, Jay Mack, a bunch of things to hit you with. Let me start with the Lakers. I said, look, they're built on defense and 100 points allowed in the first game 88 yesterday. Were you more impressed by Anthony Davis or by their defense?

I'm going to lean on the defense. You're right, Doug. They gave up 36 points in the first quarter of game one. And yesterday in the first half, okay, they give up 39 points. I mean, they locked in. Damian Lillard had no room to operate. And let's be real. Portland, which has looked good in the bubble offensively, essentially had two guys. You know, Carmelo Anthony looked like the washed 30-whatever-year-old superstar he is. And it was basically Lillard and CJ. And when they were not available, Portland had nothing to do. Lakers defensive. phenomenal, but props to Anthony Davis as well. You notice he didn't fade away, Doug. He didn't settle for the jumper. He attacked the rim relentlessly. Just an all-around great performance. Listen, this is why I predicted the Lakers would sweep Portland, not that garbage

effort in game one. Okay. Let's go to the Clippers who will play tonight. How big a buyer are like, do you think they're in trouble here in a series, which is 1-1, but very easily they could be down 02? Yeah, no, I'm with you. It could be 02. And I just, I'm curious. as to the state of mind of Paul George.

You never want to read too much, but I'm sure you saw his Instagram. He posted like, what the bleep is everybody talking about, stop coming after me. He was four for 17 and gave, you know, game two. He did not look good at all. And he couldn't guard Luca, couldn't stay in front of the 21-year-old. I think he'll be locked in. I would assume Kauai Leonard will be up to the challenge. If they're not, this could be a series that goes six or seven like everybody thought

Port would take the Lakers. Maybe Dallas is live in this and has a shot. Lucas just unguarded right now. Okay. I was impressed by Houston. I saw some big-time defense being played. I also am realistic.

They're playing against a really young Oklahoma City team that kind of collectively shit the bed when it got to the fourth quarter and they had a lead. Dennis Schrooter trying to go one-on-one and they just don't have enough offense if Chris Paul can't get a step. But I wasn't, I would be lying

if I didn't say I was super impressed. Should I be? You know, Robert Covington is a guy who is really coveted in this league, one of these three-and-de characters who could kill you on the wing and then lock you down. But you're right. I think they had eight steals in game two. James Hardin actually playing defense, again, against Gallinari, which is one thing. Let me see them do that in the next round against LeBron. Let me see them do that against Anthony Davis, and I'll be impressed.

But they do look like a problem right now. Doug, I do wonder, okay? They look so good in these two games without. Russell Westbrook. We know he's a ball-dominant, mid-range shooter. I just wonder what's going to be their state of mind when he comes back. If he's going to upset the Apple Card. We know Hardin has not really worked with everyone. We know Russ had his issues with Paul George and Kevin Durand, who was the superstar. I'm curious as to whether or not they take a step back when Russ returns. Okay, NBA draft lottery last night. If you're the Minnesota Timberwolves,

what do you do? I go Anthony Edwards, the shooting guard out of Georgia. I know people are going to push lamello ball. You may even push lamello ball. No. But I think DeAngelo Russell and La Mello Ball would fight if that was the backcourt in the preseason and it would carry over to the season. I don't think that would work for Lamello Ball. He's the big story at the draft.

I think it's a match made in heaven with him and Michael Jordan. Michael Jordan, Levar Ball, lamello. I mean, this is, you know the Hornets need to sell tickets badly. And you know their backcourt is a couple dogs, right? Devante Graham, Terry Rozier. Those guys, they're not

willing to give up positions easily. I think Lamello fits third. I can't see him operating in the Golden State Warriors system. You know, I mean, maybe they take a chance on him and say, hey, let's go ultra small with really three guards. Andrew Wiggins is a four. But I don't know if Steve Carr's ready to go that radical, but I have Anthony Edwards going one. They have a decent nucleus, right? Edwards, Cat, D'Angelo Russell, and Malik Beasley. Remember, they got him in the trade with Denver. He's in 19th. young shooter. You're going Malik Beasley on me. That's really the kind of the game

changer. I'm with you on Lamello. Like, look, I actually think he could be good with the Warriors as a developmental guy because he really likes to pass and their culture of working on your game and your shooting could only really help him. But I also think that you, the

gist that you get is, hey, they want to win in the next kind of three years. And that's the thing about the draft. Most drafts, guys aren't going to help you for three years. And then this draft guys are, you know, very far away. Even after those top three,

especially after those top three, from helping you right away. Okay. Last thing, Milwaukee Bucks dominate the Orlando Magic. Are we good now? We all set. That's just the Bucks with one stinker? Or was game one a sign of things to come? No, I think

they're fine with Orlando, Doug. But I do. If you look at Chris Middleton, I mean, he was like one for eight shooting. He's now shooting, I believe, 20% from the field in the series. Like, this is a problem. If he's your number two guy, okay? And the next round, you're going to be facing a Miami team that has a lot of offense. I don't know about you, but I'm just over the top on Tyler Hero, Duncan Robinson,

Jimmy Bucket. I like this Miami Heat team a lot. Milwaukee can just destroy Orlando. That's fine, but they are going to have major problems with Miami. Bam, Atabio can match up with Janus. you know, nobody can stop Yonis, but he's going to get his, but Bamatabio is a good young player defensively. And I think Miami can push or beat the bucks in the next round.

Last thing, why do you think the ratings are down for the NBA playoffs? Oh, this is, you can't make this a last one. You know, it doesn't help that markets in the East, New York, obviously Chicago and the Midwest, L.A., before LeBron got there, was pretty awful. But New York was not in the playoffs last year. Chicago was not in the playoffs last year. year to year down 40% on ESPN.

Why do you think that is? Listen, it's a confluence of events. It's not one thing. People... Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential.

Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win.

I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement

to my brand new podcast, the Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health,

purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me, or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be.

Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim?

Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam Jett. And I'm Alex English. We pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack.

So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Then you're finishing that sentence. Yes. I don't think there's a more. important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hard Way with me, your host,

and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth. Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two

different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Keir Gaines, as we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hardway. Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. Going more to watch politics as America is in trouble. You know, obviously the social issues don't always help. But again, I just find it hard to believe that an NBA fan who maybe plays fantasy, goes to games, gambles on games, is all of a sudden saying, they got Black Lives Matter on the court. I'm not watching.

I don't buy that. I mean, maybe one or two people, but I'm not buying these gibronies on Twitter who are pushing that angle. It's a lot of factors at play. And I think they'll be helped once the big markets get better. And, you know, the super teams emerge once again. Because their ratings were great when the Warriors made that run to the final. Must see TV. Straightfire is the podcast.

You can hear it every morning. Thanks to my good friend Jason McIntyre. J. Mack, thanks for joining us on All Ball. Anytime, buddy. Get right to the romance and find the way to wow this valentines with 1-800flowers.com. From classic roses and bouquets to decadent chocolate-covered berries, gourmet treats, and more. Surprise your valentine with 1-800flowers.com. Right now, get the 18-stem enchanted rose medley for $39.99, or upgrade to 24 red roses for $10 more.

Go to 1-800flowers.com slash tune in. That's 1-800flowers.com slash tune in. And we're live here outside the Perez family home just waiting for the... And there they go. Almost on time this morning. Mom is coming out the front door strong with a double-armed kid carry. Looks like Dad has the bag's daughter is bringing up the rear. Oh, but the diaper bag wasn't closed. Dipers and toys are everywhere.

Ooh, but Mom has just nailed the perfect car seat buckle for the toddler. And now the eldest daughter, who looks to be about nine or ten, has secured herself in the booster seat. Dad zips the bag closed, and they're off. Ah, but looks like mom doesn't realize her coffee cup is still on the roof of the car, and there it goes! Oh, that's a shame. That mug was a fan favorite.

Don't sweat the small stuff. Just nail the big stuff. Like making sure your kids are buckled correctly in the right seat for their age and size. Learn more at nhtsa.gov slash the right seat. Visit nhtsa.gov slash the right seat. Brought to you by Nitsa and the ad council. Look through your children's eyes to see the true magic of a forest. It's a storybook world

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on about 20, 30 minutes long. Jason, the founder of the big lead as well. Okay, so let me give a couple thoughts on the NBA draft. Look, I'm not going to hold LeVar against Lamello, right? Nor am I going to hold Lanzo against Lamello. Because here's what we'll do. We'll say, hey, look, Lanzo was a good athlete, went to the NBA, got some legit strength training, became a very, very good athlete, and a dynamic defender, which he wasn't at UCLA or in high school.

They just pressed and reached and it wasn't good fundamentals or whatever. And so you'll say, okay, well, why can't the same thing happen to Lamello? Okay, so if the good can happen to Lamello, why can't the bad as well? And here's what I mean. Lonzo obviously has always shot the ball wrong side of his face and he's kind of moved it over a little bit to the middle of his head, but he still struggles with his shooting. I know we think of, now part of the Lamello thing with the shot field goal percentages is he takes a lot of bad shots. But he's not a great finisher and his brother's not a good finisher. And he's not a very good shooter.

Look at the numbers, the raw data when he played in Australia. Don't watch the highlights. Watch the actual game. Still bad shots. shies away from contact, not a great finisher, doesn't want to play defense. Now, all of that skill is great,

but I am yet to find an all-time great NBA player who isn't at their core, tough-ass motherfucker, right? Like, there just doesn't exist. Tell me the guy where he's... Like, Larry Bird is like a, like, almost like a killer.

You know, he walked in, The three-point shooting contest, which one of you guys finished in second? He was a trash talker. He wasn't trash. He was a shit-talker, right? Magic, at all smile. Magic. Isaiah Thomas.

Those guys are killers. LeBron, one of the reasons that other guys in the league and former pros, you know, I had Mario Elion when I was hosting this week who was like, man, I'm all about Jordan. It's the mentality. Like, LeBron still wants to win. He's just seen as too nice. But he's, he doesn't shy away from physicality. and I understand you're just a kid

but I just I would caution you about Lamello which he might lack that mentality where Anthony Edwards does not. Now Anthony Edwards may not have the skill or the vision and may ultimately not become what Lamello could become

but I think it's worthy of at least a bit of a discussion right that like hey dude this dude is tough as hell and the Lamello thing, I do think he's actually helped by his brother.

Like, well, you know, we were in denial of his brother. Like, his brother has not, his brother really hurt Alvin Gentry. One of the reasons Alvin Gentry got fired. Let's just kind of be honest. I like Anthony Edwards because of his mentality.

I don't think Oneke Ongu, who's played USC, I don't think he's a true number one pick worthy guy. but he's like he's going to be a starting big in the league or worst case scenario a sixth man big in the league for 15 years he blocked shots he makes shots he's got no baggage and oh yeah by the way he too went to went to chino hills um i'm much bigger on him than than others are i would also tell you that there's there killion hayes is a point guard who's much more skilled as a shooter,

a little bit more refined. Also has played pro basketball, who I actually, I don't like his vision as much as I like the vision of, of lamello ball, but I like every other part of his game and the toughness more than I like lamello ball. So somebody's going to get themselves a really, really good player.

Cole Anthony has great toughness. He's not a guy that people like to play with, but I do think that he'll, he's got a chance to have, at worst, at worst, an Austin Rivers type of career, at worst. Where, like, Austin Rivers is a guy that kind of a different dude, but Austin Rivers is still an effective off-the-bench scoring guard. That's what I think Cole Anthony can become. But for the Lamello ball people, I'm not going to hold his dad against him or his brother against him. But if you want to tell me that his brother could develop his body, so Lamello couldn't develop his body, I'm okay with that as long as you,

you, as long as you understand that his brother hasn't developed a finishing game and hasn't, still is not a good enough shooter. And if you actually watched Lamello play and didn't watch highlights, you'd be like, wow, his body needs a lot of work and his shot needs a lot of development, and he's lacking that toughness that the best of the best have. And if you think that they're not going to come at him, it doesn't mean that he can't do it, that he's not skilled. He's taller than his brother.

He's super skilled. He has good vision. he's not scared, he's got confidence, but he shies away from physicality. He doesn't play defense, and some of it's bad shots, but some of it is he's just not a good enough shooter at this point in his career. Can that be fixed as opposed to his brother,

where they've really struggled to find a fix for him? One last thing, and this is important. So Carmelo Anthony hit some shots in the NBA's regular season, if you will, and people said, you were all wrong about Mello. I think the answer is yes and no. We're two games into the playoffs,

and Carmelo Anthony is 4 of 17 from the field. 4 of 17. Now, again, in all fairness, he had one really bad game and just an okay game. But the point about Mello is not could he actually play basketball or could he make shots.

Was he willing to accept a tertiary or even lower role? Previously, the answer was, no, not really. And then the two things that hold him back from a championship caliber team reaching out to him was, one, could he or would he guard anybody? And the answer is not really. They don't play any defense. So, you know. And two, when you're older, when you're in your mid-30s and you're past your prime,

you can't bring it every night. what is the percentage of seven games in which you have your A-caliber game? And the answer is, well, we're two into a seven-game series, and he hasn't had an A-caliber game yet. He had a B-minus and a D game. And so if you want to ask yourself, well, why didn't the Lakers pick him up? It's reasonable the Lakers need offense. But the Lakers built his team on defense. I think there was some concern whether or not, because they're such close-farmes,

friends that, and this happened with, you know, this happened with LeBron previously where they're really close friends, but do you want them to be such good friends that he doesn't pay attention like with Dwayne Wade, does he pay attention to anybody else in the team? Like, you've got to be one. LeBron's already his own enterprise. He's already such a superstar, so recognizable, it's ridiculous. LeBron's already there. But to alienate him from the TV more by bringing him one of his best friends, I don't think they thought would work. And then the idea of like, hey, can LeBron handle or can Carmelo handle coming off the bench? They're already bringing Kyle Kuzma off the bench.

The idea is that you'd be eating up some of Kuzma's minutes. It just wouldn't work. But at the end of the day, the real reason that older players get passed over by teams is one, they haven't played a role where they're coming out the bench or limited minutes and they struggle with that role. Some of that's probably true with Carmelo. Two, you got nowadays, you have to be able,

if you one through four, you've got to be able to guard somebody. And if you can't get that gets exposed. And when you get to the higher level and the playoff is a higher level, now all of those, any flaw you have, gets even more pronounced. And so to the people who shouted on the rooftops, you're wrong about Mello.

No. We were right. No one said he sucked or that he couldn't play in the NBA. Can he help you win a playoff series or several playoff series? And the answer does not appear to be yes. Right? Zach Collins is out. He's in a boot.

They can't go small and play Mello at the 4 because, dude, he has no shot against Anthony Davis. He has no shot against LeBron. None. None. That's just the reality of it. Be sure to catch the live edition of the Doug Gottlieb show. weekdays at 3 p.m. Eastern, noon Pacific. All right, Kurt Heelan joins us.

He's the lead NBA writer, managing editor for NBCSports.com. Kurt, coming into the playoffs, who are the two teams you thought were going to be in the finals? I had the bucks coming out of the east and the clippers coming out of the west. And now? I'm still sticking with the bucks, although I just heard you talking.

Boston always scared me. They were the team that if Milwaukee, he wasn't firing on all cylinders. I'm with you. I think they maybe are a player way, but I really like them, and I really like I like versatile teams in the playoffs. I like teams that can

get their offense in a variety of ways, can switch on defense, and that's what Boston brings. I mean, Jalen Brown, Jason Tative, I mean, now they're without Hayward for a while, which hurts. But, you know, Kimball Walker and then Marcus Smart up top, like, they can throw a variety. It looks at you. You mentioned

really great coaching with Brad Stevens, putting those guys in the right positions. I just like the way they're constructed. They're a dangerous team. I'm just not, if the bucks are defending well, they're tough. And it basically comes down. Boston's going to have to nail a bunch of threes above the break. If they do that, they're in there.

They can absolutely beat them. Let's discuss the Lakers. What holds you back about the Lakers? Is it not enough offense? LeBron being a little long in the tooth, not buying into Anthony Davis. D, all of the above? Like, where are you in the Lakers? I, I, it was almost a coin flip for me between the Lakers and the Clippers. Again, I went with the Clippers on paper before this started because of versatility,

and I have not seen the defense from them that I saw from the Lakers in the second game of their series. I haven't, they just haven't been together enough. I would just say they haven't shown cohesion. Cohesion would imply that they were all together at some point. It didn't get the chance to. They've been so banged up. And guys missing time, and now, you know, you've got Patrick Beverly missing time. time.

The Lakers, as much as it just, it's a little bit of the island of misfit toys on paper, they play for LeBron and they play for Frank Vogel and they play hard and they've been smart about defense. They're a long team and it really causes trouble defensively for teams. And, you know, at the end of the day, it becomes about matchups, especially when you get deep in the NBA playoffs. It's just, you know, the Lakers can run. it's the last five minutes of a close game.

I'm just running a whole lot of LeBron, James, Anthony Davis, pick, and roll, and say, good luck. Stop that. And I'm not sure that there's an answer for that around the league. So I am sold that they are very good. I love that their defense is back. And I mean, if I had to pick today, I'd say they're playing better than the Clippers, but I'm too stubborn to move off my pick yet.

No, that's okay. I'm a little stubborn to move off my pick as well, and I know that the Clippers are playing without Pat Beverly, who is kind of their heart and soul, and I do think he makes them a little different. I don't know if, you know, I don't know if the Reggie Jackson thing didn't screw him up. That's what it feels like to me. I'm not, I'm with you.

I'm not, look, if Reggie Jackson's fine in the regular season for 15 minutes a night or something off the bench, whatever. I don't want him out there in crunch time minutes of a playoff game and playing heavy minutes in a playoff game, and that's kind of just where the Clippers are. Okay, let me, let me ask you about the Rockets. Any potential for the Rockets there? like I got to be honest with the defense, but also like they look like a legit team. A lot of these teams, I think there's going to be better chemistry. They're spending more time around each other.

There's less nonsense or whatever. So I'm kind of impressed by the Rockets. I don't know if I'm impressed enough to think they can win a series, but I do think they'll be a hard out. Doug, is there any team buying into what the coach is selling more than Houston right now? They went with just not even, you know, everybody's calling it microball because, you know, you're doing PJ Tucker for large stretches at the five, and Robert Covington, it's not even, not even guys who are genuinely centers. Their roster has completely bought into this is what's going to happen and this is what we,

we can make this work and this is going to be fun. They are having each other's backs and then you got into it. I wasn't ever worried about them being able to score. I mean, James Hardin guy is pretty good at that. He sets guys up. I wasn't worried about their ability to get buckets, but the defense was always the question, and they've been,

the effort has absolutely been there. They've been sharp at their rotations. They've been physical. You think you can just, it's not simple, like, oh, you know what? I've got small guys out there. We'll just throw it in the post. You try to move PJ Tucker out of the post.

Good luck with that. Well, here's a thing about, so I got a chance to coach a couple years ago in Israel and this Maccabi. games, right? It's like the... Oh, yeah, yeah. Okay. And so, you know, it's interesting. I went over there and I had two big guys. And so we play the Israel under 22 national team and we're down 18 nothing to start the game. And I'm like, holy shit, I don't know what I'm doing, right? Like, I thought I knew how to coach and I didn't know what I was doing. And then I was like, all right, hold on. We got to,

first thing is you got to get off the snide. We got to score. So I took my two big guys out and I decided to play small. And we climbed back in the game. within four in the second half, and it was a scrimmage, and our best player rolled his ankle, and then I was just like, all right, let's just play everybody, whatever. But I ended up playing in the play, you know, throughout the thing, and playing mostly small, and then adjusting occasionally using one big guy and then two big guys

and toggling my lineup. But what I learned about coaching small ball was a couple of things I'd already known and a couple things that I thought and a couple things I had no idea. And I think Houston already knew all these things, and discovering, first of all, when you're smaller, you're allowed, especially in the post, you get away with a lot more defensively. You just do.

Like the big guys always get called for a push-off, for an elbow or whatever. For no fault of their own, they're just big. Big guys don't get the calls the way the guards do. So the first thing is you can be crazy physical when you're small. Second of all, you end up switching. A lot of times you'll switch everything when you're playing small ball, and it's really hard to run offense when they're switching everything.

It's really hard. You've got to have a very well designed offense, and you've got to be able to take advantage of the switches with rolls and post-ups and slips, and that's a very difficult thing to do. And then offensively, while you may take more jump shots, and even if you don't have a better shooting team, I always feel like you're going to shoot a better percentage

because you have more guys that can naturally handle the ball and naturally make passes. And the last thing is, and this is something that Oklahoma City has fallen victim to, is, you know, the whole year you work on your sets and your offense and this and that. And what happens is when you have one big guy and they have Stephen Adams, and they have all small guys, you become fixated on throwing the ball into low post, even though you never played that way the whole year, right?

And you stop running offense, you stop doing anything. And oh, yeah, by the way, when your big guy gets way more touches than he, Stephen Adams is getting twice, three times many touches as he normally gets. He's exhausted. So now he's not making the shots he normally makes. and now he's not defending the way he normally defends because he's getting the ball so much more because we think he has a mismatch every time down.

Those are some of the things I learned coaching small ball. Actually, that's really fascinating. And I think the idea that you start to get out of your game playing because you want to attack or get out of what you're comfortable and best doing because you're like, oh, this is how we have to beat them, gets you is what gets you in trouble, right? You start to think, oh, we're going to do this. Stephen Adams, you should not be running your offense through Stephen Adams.

And by the way, I love Stephen Adams as a player. He remains the best-buff Iraqi player in the NBA. There's your game of throne. Yeah. But he's like, I love him playing. But he's not the guy I'm running my offense through. It's not what he brings to the table. And then you've got these empty players.

James Hardin is a really good post defender. He's strong in the lower body. You're not moving him. You've got to pick the right guys. It's not that easy to just post guys up. And then again, if you're getting away from what you do, you're in trouble. I'm curious what happens.

Houston when they went into teams, the clippers like the post-Kawai. LeBron James is a beast in the post. Like, there are teams that can cause them problems with those plays, but it doesn't seem to be Oklahoma City. No, I think Kauai will have a field day. People forget that Kauai was a, he was a center growing up, and he's a very refined post-score, and those same matchups are not good. Like, James Hardin's a good post-defendant.

Kaui Leonard's an excellent post-score. that could get ugly in a hurry. Do you look any differently on Janus after seeing him that, I know they ride the ship in game two, but game one, some of the old warts, the miss free throws, the miss three-pointers, the lack of feeling of what to do and when to do it. We saw it once in the regular season.

Does that change how you view Janus at all? Not terribly. Although if we see those same issues, if we see, then he hasn't grown, and frankly the bucks haven't grown, and they get bounced by the Celtics or whomever. Toronto. We keep sleeping on Toronto.

We should not be sleeping on Toronto. They might be the best team in the bubble right now. Then I'm going to have my questions. Like at some point I need to see it, but I'm not going to take it from just one bad first game against Orlando, and he had some rough spots in the bubble this year. But I'm watching. Like, did this team, did Mike Booneholzer, you know,

they've always run into trouble. All right, we're going to wall off Janus. We're going to put three guys there. are you going to beat me with plan B? And they started to in game two. But that's against the magic. I need to see it against better teams. I need to see them adapt because they certainly didn't in game one.

Yeah, where are you with Toronto? Everybody likes them. I like them. I'm blown away by what's happened with Fred Van Vleet's career. But I also, I'm also realistic in that generally in the playoffs, you do need that seemingly need that alpha to kind of carry you over the threshold, which they had last year. What are your thoughts on this version of Toronto? I think I'm with you here, which is, look, they're playing great defense

right now. They know how to score as a team. Pascal Seaccom has stepped up into a kind of a poor man's Kauai type of role for them from last year. You know, Kyle Lowry's Kyle Lowry, their defense is just sharp. The rotations are sharp. When it gets down to the final, you know, four teams in the east, maybe final two teams, and I can really, the other team is good enough to take away that stuff. Kauai just got his shot. You end up meeting a guy who can just go get his shot. So why the Warriors went and got Kevin Durant.

At the end of the day, as good as Steph Curry and all of them were, they needed one more guy who just go get his shot in the half court. I'm just not sure they have that guy right now. That is ultimately, I think, they're undoing. And every time I say that, I've been selling them short, you're done, and I've been wrong all years. I'm starting to take my Spurs feel with them, which is, I'm, you know,

I wasn't going to say the Spurs missed to the playoffs until they were mathematically eliminated on the last day. I'm starting to do that with Toronto. Okay, last thing. Has there ever been a less hyped draft class than this draft class? Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque.

Others say it's unleashing human potential. your way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined.

And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be.

Listen to The Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do a little kill? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam Jett.

And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we picket here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so you all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now.

Thank you for finishing that sentence. Yes. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hard Way with me, your host, and your favorite

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No, I don't. Is there any time you've been doing it? like, yeah, it's just been, I, people are trying to make stars out of these guys, right? You're trying to make, oh, Melo Ball has all, the Lambele ball does have potential. The Moe Ball shot might be worse than Lonso. Like, it's, it is worse than Lanzos right now. Lanzas has come along.

So, yeah. Does Lanzo hurt Lamele? And, I mean, look, I think he helps him from the Lanzo wasn't seen as a, he wouldn't play, he didn't play defense until he got to the NBA, and he's become a really good defensive guard. and his body has changed and develop and he's become a very good athlete so there is that for Lamello where

he's long now and he does lack kind of muscle tone he doesn't seem like he's he's a great athlete but maybe on the other hand like he Lanzo can't finish neither can Lamello he doesn't seem to like contact and Lamello just doesn't have

he also didn't make a high percentage of shots granted you're playing against men but some of the shots selection, but some of it, as you pointed out, he's going to have to fix his shot. And then there's just so much he has to learn, like his brother, where, you know, like, I don't think his brother's out of the league, but to go from the number two pick to being one of the reasons Alvin Gentry gets fired is a massive drop-off. I just, I wonder if Lonzo helps or hurts his brother.

It's a good question. Lonzo is, I think Lonzo at this point is like a solid rotation NBA player. Like, you know, he's fine. but he certainly wasn't and the worst thing that happened to him in his career might have been Magic Johnson at his introductory press conference saying, oh, you're never

we expect you to be up there on the with all these other retired numbers that said, I think it hurts him or I think this is what hurts him. Lonzo, for all his flaws, is a gym rat. Lonzo puts in the work. That's not really the question around the league. Does Lamello,

the real question with him, and frankly he's not the only guy at the stress class. The real question is will he put in the work, or is he just kind of an Instagram sensation and expects to be that way and is going to learn some hard lessons in the pros, or is he

going to grind like he's going to need to grind to maximize that potential? And where you fall on that scale is what you think of Lamello. That's a great point. Well, listen, I really, I love your stuff at Of course, you can check it out at NBCSports.com.

Follow them on Twitter at Basketball Talk. Kurt, thanks so much for spending some time of this year in the All-Ball podcast. And thanks for having me on, Doug. Take care of yourself. Stay healthy, man. All right, it's Kurt Heelan, lead NBA writer, managing editor, NBCSports.com.

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But I do think the Lakers are fine. I do think the Clippers will, they'll figure it out. I think Luca is a bad. bad boy, but they just don't play enough defense yet. I don't. I'm not buying that Dallas can be this good offensively and that bad defensively and beat a good Clippers team. I think the Clippers will figure it out. It may take them six to do so. I think the Bucks will be okay. I offer very limited opinion on Utah and Denver. You know, I think Denver's a better team, but man, Spider-Mitchell is pretty nasty and now he gets Mike Conley back to give him a little bit of a

breather. Some of it's better with him, having the ball, some of it's worse. Obviously, he learned a little bit from games one to game two. And I like the pastures in the heat. I think they can both, but the Celtics are still my team that can come out of the east, not name the Milwaukee Bucks. You have a star score to Jason Tatum. You have versatility defensively. And I'm still a believer that I don't think Kemba is as good as Kyrie,

but I think better dude. They get a long better. And I will tell you this about Kemba. And maybe it's me watching him too much in college and not as much in the pros. game on the line, I have just as much faith that Kemba can get his own shot and make a bucket as I did that Kyrie could. And I think they're two of the best in the game. So you got great coaching.

You got good length, versatility. I like the Celtics. I still have the Celtics coming out of the east. I have the clippers coming out of the West. But I am nervous about the clippers because they have not shown the cohesion I thought they would show. I thought you would really enjoy both perspectives on the NBA from Jason McIntyre, Kurt Heelan, and of course mine. And remember to download, subscribe, and rate, listen to the Doug Gottlieb show daily 3 to 6 Eastern, 12 to 3 Pacific. In the meantime, enjoy the playoffs.

I think we'll have college basketball. We'll talk some bubble talk next week as well. I'm Doug Gottlieb. This is All Ball. If you love to be remembered as the person who gives the best birthday gifts, I'm here to tell you that 1800flowers.com is your ultimate birthday gifting destination. 1,800 flowers has thoughtful and artfully created options that are guaranteed. to deliver the best birthday surprise. Shop thousands of unique gifts

at 1,800flowers.com for exclusive offers and great values. To order today, visit 1,800flowers.com slash tune in. That's 1,800flowers.com slash tune in. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends.

Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, S&L's Mikey Day and Hibald. head writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes.

Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque.

Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On the Look Back at it podcast.

From 1979, that was a big moment for me. 84 was big to me. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. with our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite authors. Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s. It was a wild year.

I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey,

or my career in sports media. Now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfills of conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to The Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok podcast network on TikTok. This is an IHeart podcast, guaranteed human.