The Herd with Colin Cowherd - All Ball - Part 2: Tremaine Fowlkes on Fighting for NBA Survival, '04 Pistons Title Run

Episode Date: April 30, 2021

In this episode, Doug continues hos conversation with Tremaine Fowlkes on his NBA experience playing for a bad Clippers team during the Shaq/Kobe era, winning a title as a reserve on the 2004 Pistons title team, his experience playing for the Pacers after the roster was decimated from the 'Malice in the Palace' brawl, and what he's pursuing in his post-hoop life. Make sure you download, rate and subscribe here to get the latest All Ball Podcasts! Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Hey, welcome in. I'm Doug Allie, Ben. This is All-Ball. All-Hoop, all the time. Great stories. This is going to be part two of my man, Tremaine, folks. When we last talk with Tremaine, we were talking about his journey to the NBA, growing up in L.A., the hard times in college, the disappointment with some of the guys who coached him in college. Now we get to professional basketball. Remember, he finally got the call up and stuck with the Clippers.

The kid who grows up in L.A. bounces all around and gets to come home as agent calls him and says, hey, congrats. You're going to L.A. to sign the NBA. Awesome. The Lakers know the Clippers. But the Clippers at that time had moved to Staples Center. Things were, but they were very, very young. And let's continue our catch-up with Tramaine folks. Okay, part two of a momenti folks. All right, Tramaine, let's get to, okay, so now you're a member of the Clippers. We talked about it, about how you grew up a Laker fan,

and you finally get a shot, you're finally in league, but it's with the Clippers. And at this point in time, the Clippers aren't very good. You get done with that season. This is 2003. Now you played a little bit in the league. What happens? During that transition from the Clippers to Detroit,

I did have a couple, you know, I had a good second year. The third year, Donalini got rid of everybody. You know, he shipped me out. Well, he got rid of me, Melvin, Eli, Chris Wilcox. Lamar Odom. He got rid of damn near the whole team. We were shipped out different places. I ended up being with Detroit.

I thought I would stay that third year. But you know, Bobby Simmons came in and Mike Dunleady, Jr. came in there. So he kind of reshaped the team the way he wanted to. And actually, I only had about 100,000 guaranteed then. And I said, well, they're not going to keep me. At least I can at least have some money to try to see where my next

stop would be. And long enough, it was Detroit. And quick story, you know how I got to Detroit. During that preseason, we had a lot of injuries, you know, with McGatty, Q. Rich, Lamar, that gave me the opportunity to play. And those minutes I took advantage of, and it actually was, Doug, that Detroit was my best preseason game. We played Detroit in Detroit. I had about 17 points, not knowing that in hindsight it would come full circle that I would end up playing for Detroit. So you never know a preseason game can get you a job for another team at the end of the day. And that's what happened. What was L.O. like at that point in time, his career?

Lamar? Yeah. You know, I think he was trying to find his niche that he once had already when he entered the league, you know, as a high profile player. with him getting into, you know, some trouble with, you know, failed drug test, you know, this or that, it kind of weighed in on him and probably affected the team a little bit, you know, with, you know, any distraction that's not on the court, you know, is going to kind of stick with the team as a whole.

But he had the support from us. He had real good support from his team. You know, he had a good support from myself. But, you know, we were hoping the best for Lamar. It just seemed like he just couldn't get over to hunt with, you know, problem here, problem there. What about you personally? So, like, before we get to in Detroit, you're in L.A. You're with the Clippers, right?

But you're like an L.A. guy and you're back home. Like, were you a hangout guy? Did you go out? Did you, like, what were you at that point in your life? What was the way? It was a blessing. So, you know, it was a cash 22. You're like, you're at home.

but you don't want to be out too much. You don't want any. I was kind of nervous, too. I didn't want to get any trouble, you know. Somebody that's playing for their hometown team, you know, the chances are more likely for you to accidentally slip on, you know, get caught up and something. So my thing was practice, go home, eat dinner, and maybe go to the gym and work out at night. No, don't get me wrong. We went out as a team.

Yes. We were a young team compared to Detroit. we might have been the youngest team in the league, you know, that I ever played for. Everybody was in their 20s, you know. So going out on the weekend as a team, it was more safe to me than going out with my friends, you know, and not knowing, you know, what is going on, whatever situation they might have had. You know, maybe once in a while I did, but I played a safe at home. What was the organization like at that point in time?

Okay, because you guys are in the sports arena. Where did you even practice that? we were with the clippers. No practice facility yet. We practice at two places. We practice at the spectrum. That would be, I would say, Manhattan, Redondo, the spectrum gym, that was nice.

It was pretty good. But, of course, we shared it with everybody else who has memberships. You practiced at a workout club, right? Yeah, right. And we had Southwest College, Southwest, where we're practicing. everybody that goes to school. So no privacy as an NBA team, but we had to get the job done.

And Southwest actually wasn't a bad place to practice. But, you know, then again, it's Southwest College. You're in the hood. It's crazy, right? You think about it now to think about it then, right? Like even the Clippers now, they have a facility, but they're building a new private facility. It's like their second one. They're at Staples, but they're going to build a new arena. As opposed then you guys played literally the worst arena in the NBA. Right, yeah. And you had no practice. What was, what were your,

do you have any interactions with Donald Sterling? Uh, no, you know, I shook Donald's hand a couple of times. Um, he was really here and there, you know, he'll pop up when he wanted to, you know, but I definitely saw his name on my checks every time, you know, so he definitely had his imprint in the team. And he'll make his, uh, appearances every time. now and then. Elgin Baylor, you know, rest in peace, Elgin. He was pretty much, you know, the fixture in being seen coming to practices. He was quiet, though, but showed himself

with his appearance. And seeing Elgin, he's a legend. So when Elgin, you said, okay, you know, him as a gym, he's taking it serious. You know, the organization didn't have the success. It just then seemed like the organization wanted to really commit to players, you know, and that was just they're finally over that hump, of course. So, yeah, and ownership's a big deal. So, okay, so take me into what it's like, like you're in the league. Everybody knows everybody, right? And yet you're in the same town as the Lakers.

This time, the Lakers have Shaq and Kobe, right? Correct, correct. Okay, so they have Shaq and Kobe. So you're like, you're in the same league, but. but you're not in the same league. Would you guys ever see those guys out? And like, what is that? Did they treat you with respect?

They look like, ah, the clippers, right? What was that? You know, we were a tear down from the Lakers. You got to think the Lakers already won a couple of chips. So they really own the city, okay? And you already know with the history, we were just trying to get our feet wet at that same time. And I think I, at the year,

after I left, Clippers finally made, went to the playoffs. But Giddy, you know, it was mutual respect from both sides, you know. I remember seeing Shack out, Devin George, you know. I mean, you had all the players going. You might have seen Robert Ori out a couple of times. So the love was mutual from us, but as far as outside the public, oh, yeah, they definitely, it was, it was a Laker first town. And it's always going to be like that, you know, Tensel Town. It's always going to be like that.

But the love is mutual. Once you're in the league, everybody talks and understands the grind. And it was a pleasure to kind of see the Lakers out there. You really didn't see them unless you were playing on the court. What is that for somebody who hasn't experienced the lifestyle of a dude who might play or might not play on a given night? right like like the most you played your second year with the clippers you played 37 games right that means there's more than half the games you don't play so again and this is like more instructional right than anything else because i think it dude's like oh that's the greatest deal ever right

you just go show up lay up lines beats and boots by the towel yeah that's not really how it goes right so okay so so take me into like you're with the clippers let's say it's your first year was done leaving the coach your first year, your first year with the clubbers. My first year was Alvin Gentry. My second year was Alvin. Towards the end of the year, they fired Alvin and let Dennis Johnson, you know, DJ recipe.

Okay, who you had a good relationship with, right from going back to Myerlitz. Yeah, good relationship. So that worked out good as far as my confidence because DJ would give me the confidence to, you know, go out there and say, hey, man, you belong out here, Trey. You know, no matter how you got here with a couple 10 days

and this and that, you're here so go out and play okay let's let's go back when that 10 day when when they say hey they're they're picking up your 10 day and you get extended for the whole season what's that feeling like what what what do you remember about those moments that's the great that that's that's a great feeling and i was just reminded of that that same feeling when i saw i was watching ESPN they said oh uh the marcus demarkis assigned for the rest of the year margous cousin yeah yeah to get the markets. So that took me back right there.

You know, for somebody like him, that's nothing, you know. He's got, he's got $100 million in the bank. Right, right. Okay, so, so like when you're, you get called up, you get called up, okay, how much, like, how much money would you, would you have in your bank account? Like when you're, you're playing in minor league basketball, you know, do you, I would, I would keep about maybe $25, $3,000 in there, you know, you're not making, the money's not there, you know.

Okay. So then they come into like, we're picking you up for the rest of the season. You're like, oh, my, I'm like, you know, again, it's pro-rated. But six-finger gig. Yeah, who cares is pro-rated? You're getting maybe three years of D-League ball money in, you know, three months. So that was great. You know, pick up a quick maybe 40, 50,000, 60,000 was great, you know, for me just to,

because I'm thinking that, you know, I'm, I'm starting to make plans to go overseas. You know, I've done it before. Make money. Yeah, that's where everybody, you have to. You have to have, you have to support your family. My girlfriend then was just, she was pregnant right about then. So it was kind of a blessing to kind of get that call up at that time.

So. Okay, so then what is a, what is a day in the life of a dude who, you're playing for Alvin Gentry. Okay, do you guys always have shoot-around? Yes. unless we went on a three-game winning streak, we might get that. We might get a shoot-around off or two. Okay.

So you have shoot-around was like what time? Shoot-around would be about nine o'clock. Okay. Okay. So nine o'clock, you go for how long? Go for an hour? We go for an hour. You got to think the earlier in L.A. to get things over with is better.

The traffic is horrible. So I was always forward to because, you know, my thing was I do not want to be late to any meetings, any practices, any shootarounds, they should say, hey, Tray should know this city like the back of his hand. So anytime you can get me in and out, I'm there. So. So, so you're, so you're, so you're done at 10. Would you stay and shoot? I'm going to go get my nap. Like, what was your routine? I would stay. I would make sure when you're the 12 and 13 guy, you know, sometimes I did start this and that, but you have to think I'm trying to earn a respect to the coaches as well. I would stay after, you know, and shoot and make sure you know, hey.

Hop in some games in the spectrum. They start running the spectrum. You hop in, get a little run. You guys want to go? A little around the spectrum. You know, you might get a extra 15, 20 minutes and I get kicked off the court at Stables before the next team comes in. So, you know, it was no consistency, but you had to make things consistent around you, you know.

So that right there, making things consistent around you was great. And that was my job, you know. was my job. Okay, so then you would get to the arena at what time? Seven o'clock game. What time you get the arena? Seven o'clock game, Doug, I would be at the arena by 5.15. I was one always the first ones to get to the arena. You know, the players, start starters get there about 5.45. So I would definitely be there about 30 minutes early. And it felt good to be the first one there. You never want to be in traffic. You never want to be late. You just want everybody. What's you in that arena? Something about going through the tunnel.

And once you're there, it's like, okay, I'm here. My mind is right. I can concentrate and focus in on the game. Okay, so you get out there, you get, what, a half hour in? Would you get a lift in? I would get a half hour in. I would be able to take my time, get dressed, be out on a court, maybe talk to a few fans, interact, and get my shots up,

work out with, you know, one of the player development coaches. and pretty much just get in that mindset of if I was going to play, just like you said earlier. I didn't know if I was going to play or not. You know, I've gotten calls maybe 8 in the morning and say, hey, Trey, we're taking you off the IR. So be ready. So I've learned to always, you know, be prepared because you never know if you're on an IR, if you're going to get caught up that day. Even the day of, you know, I've had to get dressed.

Oh, we're taking you off the IR. So be ready. And I remember time or two that you just take for granted like I'm not going to play. I'm just going to be like ML car and root my team on. But, you know, the league is going so fast right now. You know, you never know, you know, guys need a day off real quick. They come and say, okay, hey, it's more, it's more common for guys to take a day off off that game or just to get full. You know how it is now.

Yeah. That kind of works out. It's a cash 22, but it kind of works out for the guy at the end of the day. the bitch if he stays ready. He's got to stay. So that was my thing. Preparation, you know, was my thing to make sure I stayed ready just in case my number was called.

Now, when you get done working out, would you go back and shower or you just stay loose and warm? What was your thing? I would go back. I would go back and then interact with all that, with my teammates, because everybody is there by then. It's 545. Everybody's in the locker room.

Funniest dude. Funniest dude you ever played with. in the pros. Like guy, like I go to him and I'm just, I, uh, you know, like Keon Dooling was a,

a pretty funny guy, man. I miss playing with Keon Duley. Another, another guy that nobody thought was funny, but he was funny to me, was, was, uh,

dark old mellich. They called him the, the human cigar because he would just, you know, between 50 cigars. I played against him when I was in Israel. I was in Israel in 2001, 2002. And right?

Did you like that? Yeah, I thought he would be good. Yeah. I thought he'd be good. Like, I think he'd be good in the league now. Plus, he shouldn't have played for LB. Like, that was a bad. That was the worst decision.

But quick question, did you like Israel? Did you like that? Hell, yeah, it was great. It's great. They messed around with the money. They got a little silly with the money. Yeah. But as far as places to live, like, yeah, what's not to like?

speak English. Right, right. Yeah. You know, basketball. It was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, okay. So you go to Detroit. Then you go to Indy.

Right. Right. And if memory serves, you were on the floor or you were dressed the night of the malice of the palace, correct? No, I wasn't dressed that night. I was dressed the following night after, uh, Stephen and Ron got into. the squabble. You know, they got...

Okay, so, but you were there that night? No, no, I wasn't there that night. I came the following night. I can't... I was the backup now. They had... So where were you when it happened? I was right here in Sacramento.

When that happened, I was in front of the couch watching it. Like, oh, my gosh, is this crazy? You know, I'm like, wow. You know, I was with Detroit the year before. I'm like, what's going on here? So you got cut by Detroit? Yes. They did not pick me up for the following

year. So I was kind of shocked at the same time. Like, okay, this is a this is kind of different, but at least they had told my agent and I, Bill, they said, hey, we like Trey, you know, you know, we know a couple of teams that were signed up, but, you know, we're looking in another direction. It was very respectable. I've been cut, you know, away by teams and, you know, by phone call and they end up not being how you do that. And Rick Harlow, you know, Mike Donnelly, They actually had to bring me back in when situations happen like that and say, hey, I apologize for the phone call should have brought you, you know, brought you in. So at the end of the day, I do respect them for that.

But, yeah, I was on the couch, Doug, when that fight happened, I'm like, man, this is real. I couldn't believe it at first. And then I'm going to the gym the next day to work out. And my agent calls and says, hey, are you ready to play? I said, you already know. He said, hey, you're going to Indiana right now. I said, are you serious? to I'm going to Indiana right now?

He said, yes, they suspended them and they need another player. So I did a post like they needed another squabler just in case they had. They knew LA guy. They knew L.A. guy. Yeah. They knew about Crenshaw. They didn't know you grew up in Baldwin Park, though. They were like, they knew Ball and Park.

They were like, he's kind of soft. That's, you know, his mom wouldn't let him out after dark. Okay. So you get to, you get to, was it in? What was their next game? What was their next game? That next game, that's a good question. That next game.

I can look if you like. That next game we played was, that's a good question, Doug. That next game we played, we were, I met, I met them out of town. Where did we play them? Gosh, we played. Rick Carlisleau was the coach, right?

Rick Carlisleau was the coach. And we, you know, no, no, no, you know what? That we came back for, that was came back for a home game. You played Minnesota at home. Yes. You play in that first game? Minnesota, yes. There you go.

I played that game. So, so you come back with a lot up, you're about to go to get a little workout at like L.A. fitness, right? Or 24 hours. At Jamtown. I mean, not downtown, basketball town,

I'm working out. Okay, so you're going to go to basketball town in Sacramento. Correct. Okay. Why are you staying in Sacramento? Your girl was there? Well, my girl that met at Cal, she is from Sacramento. And my trainer ended up being out here, Gus Armstrongstead, who was, you know, trained

everybody, you know, college, pros, high school. And it kind of happened just didn't, I didn't know what was going to happen. It just happened like, hey, oh, I'm here working out now. So I end up making sack in my home. Okay. So you go there. So you go there, like. Yeah, I'm going here to work out.

great workout. Gus says, hey, Bill wants you to call him. I said, okay, I kind of didn't take it. Duffy?

Uh-huh? Bill Duffy? Bill Neth. Bill Neth. Bill Nuff. Oh, Bill Nuff. I love Bill Nuff. Yeah,

so I went. He all those point cards. What do you have you for? He had a point card. I changed the game for him. You know, something he saw. It's like,

hey, Trey, you can do it. You can do it. You're working hard. I said, you know what, Bill, you coming to me telling me that. Let's get this done.

So I signed with Bill. But, you know, I have to build up in various agents. And I stuck with Bill to the, you know, throughout the whole, my whole career. He was great. Okay. So you get there and they're like, they, I mean, by now everybody, everybody, right, right, right? You guys run hawks?

We run hawks. You guys run horns? You run horns? Right. But what was it like around that team when you had, I believe still at that time, they'd suspended him, but they hadn't ruled the final suspension. or whatever, those guys are spent the rest of the year. What was it like to take the floor

to a pacer uniform considering the fight? It was special. You know, first of all, you're taking in, you're in something that's infamous. That fight is going to be infamous and just for me to be a part of something, you know, for the better to help recover,

something that went so bad and I'm there the next day was great. But just to be able to walk in that arena and be able to, when somebody comes, comes up to you and his name is Reggie Miller. You're like, oh, man, come on, Reggie. The guard is Spike Lee. You know, you just think about so many just things that make you say, oh, he's a legend, you know. And just like you, we're in the same age group.

We watch Reggie a million times. The New York battles that George. I was his ball boy at UCLA because Rashid and Doc Hazard were on my AAU team. Oh, right. Yeah, that's my guy. Yeah, so me and Tutu, me and me and Tutu, we used to go and we'd be a ballboy. What about two to? And, and go to UCLA games.

So, yeah, I mean, Reggie Moore is like a god. Like, there's like an aura around. The history is crazy. And not only that, it gets even better. Now, after a game, I'm getting dressed. And guess who walks up to me, the GM? And it's not any, yeah, it's not just any GM. It's Larry.

Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth.

Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits,

the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw,

unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music.

The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app,

Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, Follow at Clifford and a TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast.

I'm Sam Jett. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so you all know.

I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Then you're finishing that sentence. Yes. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah.

For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Keer Games. And in recognition of Mental Health Awareness Month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we, are in possession of the thing, and we're still chasing it, and we don't know when we've done enough.

Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth, or are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person.

Join me, Kear Gaines, is we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure and purpose on my new podcast, learn the hard way. Open your free iHeartRadio app, search Learn the Hardway, and listen now. Hey, Bird! I'm like, wow, I never saw Larry in a suit, you know? Wow, I'm just so used to seeing the Green 33.

Did you tell him you hated him as a kid? Did you say, like, I hated you. I'm an L.A. guy. I hated him. Not Larry Bird as much as probably as Danny Ames or a Kevin McHale. You're right. Yeah, there's like a begrudging respect from L.A. guys on Larry Bird, but everybody hated

age, right? Everybody hated age. And then, and then you sort of didn't like McKale. Right. Yeah, McKellie, Ains, they taught you not how to like them, you know. They were totally into their team. It's either their team or F you're out of here, you know. And, you know, that works, though. That works. You know, you're not going to have those fans, but hey. Best Sports Talk lineup in the nation. Catch all of our shows at foxsportsradio.com. And within the IHeard radio app, search FSR to listen live. When was the last time you seriously considered your dream?

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Yeah. And you went back to the D-League. What's it like to go back after you've been in the show, right? You've been in the NBA to then go back to the, how lot, is that harder or easier to be in the D-League, as opposed to when you're in the D-League before you got in the Navy. It's, you know, you definitely have to have a strong head. You know, you have to humble yourself.

It's very difficult to take a step down after you had success, you know, winning a championship, being on some top teams. You know, it's not like I was playing for the Grizzlies, you know, and the Raptors for a while. You know, of course they won. But I was able to at least elevate myself from the, the clippers, you know, to Detroit, Indiana, and be able to play on both sides of the coast and be able to take all that in was great. But then you have that, you take all that into a

bubble and you have to take it down to the minor leagues. So you're like, okay, you have to be mentally prepared. Preparation. So you just don't feel like you're in a spot where you can get out of. And you have to use this as a moment to help other players out that are trying to get where you, where you've gone. So you have to. look at it in a positive way. So my thing was, if I'm coming back down here, I'm going to be, you know, a stand-up veteran so-called, you know, hey, I'm going to be a teachable guy. I can teach you the doos and the don'ts, you know, hey, this is how I got my first call up. You effing up this way. Try it this way, okay? Put some more time in here. Hey, talk to the coach some more.

All the intangibles, you know, you know how it is. You need to do all the intangible stuff sometimes to survive in the league, you know, and for me, I felt I survived long enough at that time to be able to give advice to the youngsters. And they need it these days, you know, they're built different this day and age. It's been like that for a while now, but I had to use it as a teaching moment, so I wouldn't feel like, okay, I'm down here in the minor leagues, man, I'm depressed. And you're getting that mold sometimes, but you have to put yourself out, man, to make sure you're using yourself as a positive for somebody else. Okay.

Let's go back to when you're in Detroit during the NBA finals. Okay. Like you grew up, Laker fan, now you're with the Pistons. Okay. What did you think going into the series? Like we got them or,

I mean, like remember they had Carmelone, they had Gary Payton, they had Shaq, they had Kobe. Everybody knew that Shaq and Kobe weren't vibing at that point in time, but I'm not sure anybody knew how bad it was.

What do you remember? What do you remember about going into that series? I definitely remember that we were the underdog. We weren't supposed to be there anyway. I believe Indiana was the best team that year with Jermaine and Ron. They were the best team. And then you had New Jersey still with Jason and King of Moore. So we were the underdog period, you know, straight out.

And that was fine with us. I really think that kind of helped us. that the Lakers kind of took us for granted because we didn't have a solid, solid big man. And when you don't have a big man with Shaq, that spells disaster. And we have Rashid and Ben. And both of those guys stepping up to the plate was unbelievable. But going near that first game in L.A. And be able to play in the finals and see and be able to be at Staples and be a part of that.

The energy level was, you can't. Explain it, you know, being home right now in the final. Try, try. Help me out. So you're, you dress, you dress that game? No, I'm on, I'm on events. I'm in street closed, but. Okay, so you're in street clothes, you walk out. You're at Staples. Yes. You're Staples. And they won the last two championships, right? Yeah. Yeah. And they roll out with, with, with all these stars, right?

Yeah. You guys roll in and what paint, because this is what you're going to tell your kids for the next 30, 40 years. Well, what was it like? What do you remember? You're going out and you're walking down The first thing you see is the 2004 Finals on the floor and you're like, oh my goodness, this is real right now, okay? This is, we are definitely here right now.

This is where it's at. You see things on TV so much and I'm just able to say, hey, I was there, you know? And we want to take a step further, Doug, and say, hey, I wanted to play. I wish I actually was in that game, you know?

And, but the energy is still, the same. You know, the energy is still the same when you're actually there. You're, you're, still aging your teammates on. You know, I'm hype coming out when teams calling time out. I'm like, let's go, let's go. We got it. You got it. So you automatically take on the energy as if you were out there. And just, but, you know, you're right next, our Kobe's right, right, taking the last shot, you know, right next to my bench. And I'm like, this might go in right here. You know, he shoots a three last second to help him win. I believe game one.

It was either game one or game two because we split games in L.A. So game one, game one, you guys, uh, let's see sure. Yeah, check that real quick. Game one, you guys won 87 to 75. Yeah. You held them to 75. They beat you in overtime 99, 68, 80, and 87. Like that's, that, that's crazy.

Yeah. I mean, like, look, they had dudes, Rick Fox, I think, got hurt. I think Carmelone got her own. Gary Payton was hurt. I mean, they had a lot of, you know, people forget that Carl and Gary was on that squad, you know, as well. But they were hurt that year. And, you know, for us to take advantage of that was great. Because we really, I mean, me, I'm thinking like, we have all these Hall of Famers on this team.

My goodness. And, you know, once I think we saw their weakness and just made sure we play solid defense What was their weakness? Well, once you had, once Kobe and Shaq couldn't get on the same page after we saw that, they, okay, we'll double team, Shaq. Shaq would throw it out to Kobe. Kobe wouldn't throw it back in. So that kind of made a little riff between them.

And we kind of saw that. And then next thing, you know, we're doubling Shaq and Shaq is like, screw everybody, I'm taking it. And we saw Shaq kind of get out his game a little bit. After that, the players, you know, you guys, you know, everybody else on the Lakers team really trying to help them trying to get together. And, you know, and after that, that's where your mind is off. They're focusing on trying to get Kobe and Shaq together when they need to be focusing on us. Rashid is a guy who everybody who's ever played on the same court as him was like, that dude's always been one of the top five most talented dudes in the league, right?

But there were a bunch of reasons. He wasn't a workout guy, right? He didn't job with all coaches. But for that period of time, people remember he was traded first to Atlanta for like a day and then Detroit. What did Larry Brown do? Because that was the best he ever played in terms of both ends and being. engaged fully. Like how did it work that Larry Brown made it work?

That's a good question, Doug. You know, Larry, you wouldn't think Larry and Rassi were kind of commingle, you know, and it didn't work at times, but Larry actually took a step back with Rishi and kind of let him, you know, do what he does. And that's what you have to do with Rashid, you know, he's, you know, him, his, his, his, his, his, his, his, his, his, his, his, his, his, his, he's strong. So he's always like, yeah, let's go. This is and that. And once that kind of spilled on the team in, in a positive way, it, it worked. You know, a lot of, a lot, a lot of the top guys were quiet. Dan was quiet. Rip was quiet. Chansi was quiet. Don, Chanty's super, chonty's super quiet, right? Like, he's very thoughtful and quiet. Right.

Much like the same way. Like, it's an interesting mix that it all worked out. Yeah, it was very interesting. So, uh, Rishit came and changed the dynamics, you know, and made players open up, you know,

and be vocal. And that, that, we needed that. And that kind of fitted perfect. You know, you needed that vocal guy that gave everybody else, that little chip on their shoulder.

And that's what Rishie came in and did. Um, okay, Ben Wallace. At that time, that's like, peak Ben Wallace, but there's a dude from like nowhere, like no one had ever heard of this dude. And then the guy looks like a Greek god. Right. What's Ben Wallace really like to be around? Ben was great. That was one of the best players, teammates to be around on that team. You know,

we had a little connection with, you know, our dusted shoulders all come out to start line up when, you know, they do the introduction. We dust each other's shoulders off. How'd that come to be? Like, who's like, yo, I'm going to dust you. It's like, your idea? Was that his idea? Did you see it somewhere else? You know, I remember everybody said, you remember J.C., he did the shoulders, dust your shoulders off, so he would come out.

Ben wouldn't run through the lineup. You know, he would walk. And I'm saying since Ben taking his time, he's too cool, let me just dust his shoulders off, okay? Because, you know, Ben will walk his arms. He's got quarters walking, you know. You're like, hey, hey, hey, I say, you know what? You don't even have to give me high.

I was going to dust your shoulders off. And then so soon to be, he would dust mine. off and then okay i say you know what thank you a bit i'm a pop your collar so i pop this collar he popped mine and we wrote that all the way to the championship so you know something like that you're never going to forget because that's part of that team corottery you you you win game five okay and people forget no team and ever won all three in a row at home as the as the underdog right or as the lower seed so you you you win you've been through a lot of shit right like it was like 16 high schools we went through last time and few colleges right

D-League overseas Achilles injury right yeah but but you didn't play so I have a buddy who who's on the he's playing the playoffs with other teams and he was on the Cubs World Series winning team and he was like doesn't really mean anything to me because I didn't play But for you, when you went through it and you're celebrating, how connected to that team did you feel like when you guys celebrate? I felt connected, but I can understand, I mean, what your friend is saying, because you don't have on the uniform, you know, but you're on a bench. And I'm saying, hey, yeah, I'm in street clothes, but I'm over here just as happy as everybody else, you know. and you have moments where you say, I would have loved just getting in there for 20 seconds,

you know, if I could just fill somebody out real quick. And game to game, you have that thought and saying, hey, maybe they might dress me this game, you know? I've been surprised like that in my whole career.

You're going to have that time. It didn't happen. But then in hindsight, you're like, you're getting all the rewards and you're reaping all the benefits as if you were playing. So you see you hadn't partied like,

you partied like, Partied like you had 25. I said, hey, yeah, we're going to party, you know, like it's 1999. Okay, here's the question I always wondered. Always wondered. Okay, so you win the championship. You guys all go out together? We did that night.

Yeah, we all went out. And we, that was it. We did one night. You know, some teams will probably go out the whole week together, you know. But, you know, we did celebrate as a team that night. And, you know, we have fun. You know, they gave us the whole little floor. You know, to have fun and a little BIP.

And we just have fun, man. We have fun. Okay, but so, okay. So, but again, you're like a minimum contract, dude. Yeah. Were you ducking any of the bill? You're like, yo, Rashid. Who pays the bill on nights like that?

Oh, you know what? That was always a thing in mind. You know, you laughs on the totem pole. So they always had the bill covered. You know, the one thing, big ups to Lamar, you know, L.O. when I was going to clip, is he always. covered the bill. You know, you had you, you had RIP, you know, we're covered the bill a lot. That, that was good. You know, we, they never made me feel like I had to put my two cents in my

crowds, you know, keep your chump change in your wallet, Tray. You're okay. You get, you get to per diem. Like, man, I get the per die. Right. I remember my first time I got NBA per diem was like, $95 a day. This is a baby. Yeah, you're like, hold on, I could get used to this. I could really get used. I got a funny story. Brent Price is a friend of mine. Okay. And he likes to tell the story that what was the name of Big Dog, not, not Robinson from Purdue, the big dog they had in Utah with the glasses. Utah. Utah. Play the mom. Antoine Carr. Antoine Carr. Oh, Antoine. Okay, yeah, yeah. So he goes, so he told me the stories. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential.

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as we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, learn the hard way. Open your free, our heart radio app, Search learn the hard way and listen now. Like, yeah, we were in Utah. We used to go on this, like, once a year we go on like a 15 day road trip, whatever. Yeah.

Right. And so whatever the per diem was like 90, 95 a day and you get it like in cash. And like our first stop, we went somewhere and he's like this is right when like the portable disc movie things came out. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And they both, they got a best buy to.

buy together. And, you know, big dog's got like a sweatshirt. He's got his Oakley's on. And I got, you know, like I got a park on. We're on the road. We're like in Minnesota. And we go to a best buy. And like, he literally looked like my bodyguard. Like, hey, big, I ask him a big dog and I borrow some money so I can get this, you know, display, play pay cash for. You know, you reach into your your chest pocket and you pull out, you know, like two grand in cash that you just right. Right. Yeah. Chump change that to, to the dudes that stuck in the league. But to everybody else. Okay.

What is the rehab like of coming off of Achilles 10? The rehab for me was it was the younger you are, the better, the faster you're recovered. I had two, you know, two Achilles chip. My first one was my left. And I bounced back off that one. That's before I even played a day in the NBA, you know. So I came, I came. I came into the NBA already broken, you know.

It was a blessing. I was able to recover fast off that first Achilles tear. But it's a lot of consistent rehabbing. You do have to make sure you don't miss any rehab, you know, the first three months. You know, the therapy and rehab is crucial. You know, muscle memory is really important for your body, you know, and you have to teach that all over again, you know. And that's the frustrating part.

like teaching the baby on to walk and you're looking at your foot and you're like, will you please walk, please walk? And it doesn't. You know, it's not an ankle sprain. You know, so you definitely have to let, you know, muscles here and actually be able to be committed to wanting to get back. You tore the same one twice or each different. No, no, I tore the right one.

I tore the right one in 2005, 2006. And tell you the truth, it went from maybe 10 months of healing, 10, 11 months to a year and a half for the next one, you know. It definitely took a toll on me to rehab and at least get back just to this level, you know, just to get back to surface level. And then another, you know, six months just to try to get your game back. So you're looking at two years, Doug, that I was burnt out, you know, with, you know, having a second Keeley injury.

And I knew the level of competition wasn't going to be, I wouldn't be able to peek out. So, you know, I was making openings for me to go play and overseas leagues that weren't high level. You know, I couldn't keep up anymore. And, you know, the A, B, you know, the A league, you go kind of B, you know, you would pick certain places. Philippines, Venezuela, you know, all the little places that you. Philippines, Venezuela, Puerto Rico are all places to get a quick, quick money grab. Right, yeah. You already know how it.

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near you and start exploring at Discovertheforest.org. Brought to you by the United States Forest Service and the Ad Council. Adoption of teens from foster care is a topic not enough people know about and we're here to change that. I'm April Dignwit, host of the new podcast, Navigating Adoption, presented by Adopt U.S. Kids. Each episode brings you compelling real-life adoption stories told by the families that live them with commentary from experts. Visit Adoptuskids.org slash podcast or subscribe to navigating adoption presented by Adopt U.S. Kids. Brought to you by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services Administration for Children and Families and the Ad Council. Yes. So when did you decide, I can't do this shit. I'm done. I'm done.

Oh, great question. I would say it just would have to be. Actually, it was, it was here in set. and my body just would not recover as fast as I wanted to. And then you're looking at guys, you're laying everything up. It's like, oh, Trey, you lost it, huh? You ain't got it no more. I'm like, hey, two points is two points. But then you tell yourself like, gosh,

I wish I could have, you know, got up higher. Your reaction, you know, you step slow. So people can recover, block your shot. You know, people are recovering on you. You go one way and, you go one way, and come back left. They're already there. I already changed my game to help fit my...

Now, that game definitely caught up to my game. So what years is that you're like? This has to be... You know, my last place that I played, Doug, was Syria. And when I... What was that like? Oh, man. I mean, I was right.

You know, only offense separated me in a Turkish embassy with guys having a... A, K's on their shoulders. I'm looking out the window like, wow, I'm really just close. You know, it was an experience. You know, you never saw women. They only can see their eyes. They show their bodies, you know.

Do you only see their eyes? To me. A lot of just dirt roads. I actually had some footage of Syria that I'm trying to get off my hard drive. And if I can able to let people see what it is. What was the basketball like? The basketball wasn't that bad, you know. You know, they have a guy on there who they call their Monarche, who called their Michael Jordan, who's actually good.

And I said, you know what? You're the best Syrian I've seen play. And I said, if anybody that I've seen that is Syrian, he deserves a shot. He was really good. But overall, you know, the competition was where I wanted it to be. But then you have to have everything worked out. You go over there. And when you don't get paid and you're on somebody else's soil for the, you know, first month or two.

You start getting nervous and there's all these excuses. And finally, you get, you know, come of your mind. You just get a, lay with things. Yeah. And you're just like, I got to go. I got to go. And that was, I got to go was I got to go home and retire. So you call Bill Neff and just go, hey, I'm done.

Did you just let it live for a while? Like, how did you handle it? You know what? I actually retired before that. Before that, I played for the North Dakota Wizards 2009. And then that was my last time playing in the States. Who was your coach? Who was the coach for the Kings two years ago?

He played, he coached for the United. Yeah, Dave. Dave. I played against Dave. So Dave was the coach of Dakota Wizards in the USBL as well, or he was a coach in the USBL as well. No, one of the, maybe the, no, he was. He was a coach of a different team of the USBL.

Yeah. Wow, I played for the USBL too, the Brooklyn Kings, but that's another story, too. What year? That was, ooh, that was before I even got into the NBA. So that was probably a, that had to be like 90, like, oh, that had to be like 99. Yeah. Yeah, so 2000, I played for the USBL, Oklahoma Storm. Okay, yeah.

And we had a squad. I mean, that was, that shit was crazy. I remember Oklahoma. Yeah, that's funny. Willie, Willie Burton. Yep, yeah. Willie Burton was one.

Who else do we have? We, yeah, we had, we had Bubba Wells. Bubba Wells, that was my. I remember Bubba Wells. Yeah. I could go through the list of dudes we had. We had really, really good, bunch of guys that played in the NBA.

Okay, so, So then what? So you decide, all right, you thought you're done. You go to Syria, you come back. Now I'm done. Yeah. Then what do you do? Because I do think that there's some of those guys that are the elite level NBA guys.

It's hard for them to come down and to be real life. But you've been, you've had the scrap for everything you've ever had. Yeah. So what did you have a plan? Like, what do I want to do when I'm not playing basketball? You know what? It took a while. for me to kind of get I was you know kind of you know in a in a in a in a in a days of

what should I do next you know that's a lot of us and my thing was I want to stay as close as possible so I said let me just start training you know training kids and coaching and then I started doing a you and then finally somebody said hey train won't you try to get back into the NBA but this is just a couple years and three years out and you know knowing if I had that chance again I never would have took both my feet out the NBA. Once you take both feet out, you know, you're pushed out. And my thing was, I tried the, the, the, the assistant coaches program that they had in 2015 and 2017.

And after that, I said, you know what, Doug, we've got a kind of that is consistent for me. So I said, well, let me get a regular job and be a PE coach. And I said, okay, let me go to school and work with kids. and that kind of got me on my second patent, which was refereeing. And that led me in to say, you know, this needs me close to the game. I'm able to take the calls and I'm able to control something that I had a passion for so long ago. I'm thinking at myself like, man, I wish I would have thought of this soon as I got out of the NBA. Could be in the NBA referee, yeah.

Yeah. So, you know, it's not, it's never too late, but it's a passion that I'm loving. to pursue now and maybe after high school you know high school seasons back which is great but my i have to hope for myself to try college basketball out and i got a i got a tee from an official this weekend i want to ask your ask if you would have teed now look they were 13 year old kids and i said it and it was a loud gym but i did not yell at him at all yeah i had a dude come in drove in and he leans in with his shoulder and guess what i thought was man one he called an offensive foul and dude looked like you right like he's like six six like guy looked like he was he had hooped

right so he comes he comes by me and i was like hey man you look like you played so you know that was a shitty call right that's what i said so he banged me and i was like what did you give me a for he's like man i'm a grown ass man you know be oh whoa whoa whoa you know he'll be cussing at me i was like what are you talking about i said shitty i didn't yell at you yeah wow see now i'm not surprised but I'm surprised that somebody that would be a former ball that looked like they played ball would actually take it that sensitive.

And the thing for me, where I have a report with the players and the coaches and the family, you know, you got to put your ego to side. You got to set your ego down, set your pride to the side. I never call texts on players and coaches unless you really ask for it,

because you have to have a report. And a lot of reps want to control the game where they get sensitive and they can't handle any little, you know, thing that's, somebody says and they're quick to see up somebody, quick to throw parents out, quick for, you know, telling a player, I'm going to tee you up next time. And that's where I'm in because I have a rapport with everybody before the game, you know, my personality, it spreads, you know, on the court,

and you can see that this is going to be a good game. And I don't have to take it to a level you're able to talk some mess. You could have told me that. I was like, hey, you know what? I'm going to watch the tape again. You might be, you know. No, that's what anybody does. Does anybody know? Like, has there ever been a dad or a coach that country? Like, wait, wait. Okay, this dude played at ABCD camp.

He won state championships. Yeah. He played a Cal at Fresno. He played in the league. You want an NBA championship, right? When you're running up and down making calls, like, does anybody know? Yes, and it's pretty cool that, you know, I still, sometimes I get that extra edge when, you know, I'm only an hour from Cal, you know,

two hours from Fresno. So teams from Cal, you know, from the Bay Area and Fresno come up here all the time. And, you know, it feels good to say, hey, somebody said, man, you were my favorite player at Fresno. Come take a, can I get a picture? You know, people see her there, like, who was he? You know, who is this guy right here? And, you know, somebody might come and say, hey, did you used to play ball?

And it just brings you back around to when you played and, you know, people kind of give me love. And that's what I kind of like out this. You know, people kind of remember, you know, not everybody. You know, somebody might even say, hey, you look like a guy that played that cat. I'm like, my folks, yeah, that's me. I get, I get, you look like Doug Gottlie. Like, I get that all the time.

Right, not actually you, but you look like him, right? Yeah, yeah. What is Doug Al-Lua? He's short, white, handsome. That's me. You mentioned a book. Tell me about the book. The book is from the Shaw to the Chip.

From Chris Shaw to the championship, man. And we're working on a publishing deal right now, and I'm looking for it to be out this summer, this summer. And it's going to be a good book, Doug. And I'm hoping that this book can not only get to the youth, you know, all the way up to college and grown, people, but I want this story to be where I can have an impact on other players that have way more success than I've had in the NBA, made way more money.

But what did happen after them? You don't have anything left, you know, all the players I even looked up to, you know, and saw like, wow, man, they lost all that money. And maybe that story can help it. Just like I said with my story, help a lot of the players that's coming up to not make that same mistake. I mean, it's unbelievable now that you like guys like Antoine Walker lose a hundred-something million, you know, Iverson waiting on his big money to fall through. You know, I'm glad that Reebok saw that and, you know, left some money for him, you know, back in the store.

And so he could have something, right? Gosh, a hundred million. A guy like me only made a couple million, okay, before taxes, okay? So, uh, as you're trying to explain him, like, yeah, I had to pay four percent to my agent and I lost. 50% of it in taxes. Right, right. And I wasn't signing guaranteed deal, you know, five-year guarantee deals. And I'm still telling this story. So, right.

So maybe this will help, you know, a lot of players that, you know, people can't believe that they lost all that money. And still, if you show that you're still here to tell your story, that makes yourself that much better. And that much, that more, that respect is going to come back that much more, you know. people want to hear the good, the bad and the ugly. And that's what the book tells you. It tells you the unbelievable highs, unbelievable lows, and the midpoint that you had to stay consistent. You can get over the hug.

So you're getting you're getting copies soon as day. The hardback's print. I'm going to send us up to you. Tell me what you think, man. I'll read it. I'll read it. I'm more. You're in the book.

Part, so. I mean, I'm in it? Yeah, of course. You know, I named all this. teammates A, B, C,D. Okay. I mean, did you get the part where my dad sat you? Did you, you didn't remember that?

We got that in there. We made some special, yeah, we made some special moves to get that in there because you told that story and that story was classic. That's one of my favorite stories ever. You mentioned, you mentioned this and it's important. It's a, you have, you mentioned that even in the NBA, you had to have a coach who had, who gave you confidence, had confidence in you. It's a really a hard thing as a coach.

Yeah. We have to kind of know a guy and know that all of us are insecure on some level. We need somebody to some way to get that. Because I think in TV and radio, we talk about so many things that don't matter. Whereas what really matters is like what kind of condition, you're conditioning because you're tired, right? That can come from some dudes just can run all day no matter what. Right.

Some dudes can't. Right. Some dudes, you know, Gary Payton could put down his last beer, go to shoot around, sleep all day, get up, poop at night. Right? And just do it. Some guys, I got to be in at 10 o'clock every night, get to bed, although I can't play.

We don't talk enough about conditioning, and we don't talk enough about confidence. Right. Confidence is, you know, like I couldn't shoot in college because I always felt like if I missed, my coach would take me out. So I was like, fuck it if I don't shoot, can't take me out. Oh, this. Right.

Right. And then I played for a guy. Do you know Maz track? Do you know Mazzo? So his brother Mark just, retired as women's coach at SC. Maz is like an assistant with the Wizards down with. Marcus Nashville? Huh?

What name does you say? Maz track. Maz track. Okay, no, no, no, no. He was coaching me in the ABA and he was like, look, here's a deal. If you turn down a good shot, I'm taking you out. Oh, I love him already. I love him already.

He's like, I'm not talking about a shitty shot. You come open and you turn down a shot, I'm taking you out. Right. So I never forget. So we're playing. we're playing the Detroit dogs. I just got off a plane from Israel because they're fucking around with the money.

Yeah, yeah. And I got to meet them. I got to meet them in Mr. Goodley, why you leave? We pay you eventually, maybe, you know, like, no. So I never got up. First, I'm in layup lines, okay? And this is what Syria remind me of.

I can't remember what country. Todd Bergen is playing for the Detroit dogs. Okay. I played against him in Syracuse. Todd's a good dude. Yeah. He's like, where you,

what are you just get back from us? Like Israel was like, he's like, oh, for real, I was in the Middle East too. He's like, I was in,

um, oh, I was in, not Qatar. He was in, um, what was the country that we attacked, not Iraq,

uh, next to it, huh? Iran? No, let me see. In, in the Gulf War,

the first Gulf War, what was that country? God, I can't remember. Hold up. I'll find it real quick. Yeah, go ahead.

So I can have it in my memory. Gulf or Kuwait. Kuwait. He's like, I was in Kuwait. I was like, man, what was that like? He's like, oh, man, money was straight. He's like, couldn't see the women he set their eyes. Good weed, though.

I was like, all right, Todd. Like, anyway. I never get like, we come off of, I like, I come off a little horns. Like very, for like, come down, I check in the game. Come off a little horns. They roll. Everybody drops back. I'm wide at it.

open. I'm like, eh, pass the ball. Eh, like I had just gotten in the game. Takes me out of the game. He's like, what the fuck did I tell you? You turned out a good shot. Coming out. It was awesome. It was awesome. So confidence is what was the best way to make you confident?

To tell me that, you know, not take me out after my mistakes, you know. And the coach just to get in your ear and tell you that, like, don't, please, just like that. I mean, it's a trickle down for everybody else, too. If they see that you have that confidence and you're, you know, and you're the guy, too, at the same time, that feels down on everybody else. They're saying, hey, coach is letting Trey relax. He's not out here pressing.

Now I'm able to make the goals and get you in the game, get you in the game knowing I'll be able to get myself back to the game. So it works out all different kind of ways, Doug. But the coach is so crucial, you know, it's implemental on your success sometimes. And, you know, for me, I had some good ones. I had some bad ones. But I have to say it ended right there.

You know, some guys. Best coach here played for you for you, not the best coach, but just coach for you. Coach for me would be Joby Wright. You know, that was the IBL for the Cincinnati stuff. He let me go. 500 a week? Maybe. Yeah, about five.

Yeah, about four. Yep, yep, 500 a week. $2,000 a month. There you go. And I was happy in Cincinnati. in the snow. So yeah, but, you know, great coaches, Hall of Fame coaches.

I love them all up. You know, you know, Jerry was good. Coach Brown, Larry was great. Willie West was good, great too. You know, I was fortunate enough to play for some legendary coaches. So don't let me not mention there, you know, mention them.

They were great. But as far as the connection was going, you know, Joe Be Wright definitely getting a confidence, you know. And that was probably the only year why average 20, you know, in my life, you know. So I'm always going to remember that because that's part of having to put up numbers. You've got to have a coach on your side or in your back pocket, you know.

From the Shaw to the Chip. Okay. Yes. Awesome. And hopefully I'll see you when we roll up to Sacramento or hit me up when you come down back to your old Hanson, L.A. I really appreciate your time. This has been really fun. Man, it's been fun, man.

It's been so natural with us because we have so much. many things that we relate it to, man. So it's always a pleasure. I like to do, man. Can I grow mine? No, I think I... My shit's going too, man. My kids give me my shit's going to.

But you're black, so it's not fair. You look good like that. Like, you're going to look the same age the rest of your life, and I'm just going to get older and older and over. Oh, man. Hey, it only tastes one day, man. I'm going to try to keep drinking my water right here, man. All right, T.

I appreciate you joining me. Hey, for real, man. Thanks for having me on. man, we will be in contact. I'll let you know. Keep you up in fact. All right. I'll love him. See it. All right. All right. Thanks. All right. That's it for my boy T. Folks. Join me. I really appreciate you downloading and listening. We'll get you ready for the NBA playoffs and also some NBA draft talk.

Plus we have Brian Butch pods. We have two of them that will drop next week. Brian Butch, All-American Center at Wisconsin, his mere curial journey to broadcasting, all the different places he played and why he never made it to a game in the NBA. That's upcoming with our next pod. The meantime, remember to listen to Doug Gottlieb show daily 3 to 6 Eastern, 12-3 Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, the IHeart Radio app, or wherever you download podcast. In the meantime, download, subscribe, rate, write a review. If you like it, you don't like it, liking it and writing about it helps me.

I'm Doug Gottlieb. This is All Ball. Get right to the romance and find the way to wow this Valentine's with 1,800, Flowers.com. From classic roses and bouquets to decadent chocolate covered berries, gourmet treats, and more. Surprise your Valentine with 1,800flowers.com. Right now, get the 18th stem enchanted rose medley for $39.99, or upgrade to 24 red roses for $10 more. Go to 1800flowers.com slash tune in. That's 1,800flowers.com slash tune in. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guide, not quite on humor. with Robert Smygel and Friends,

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Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encourage. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds.

I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey,

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