The Herd with Colin Cowherd - All Ball - (Pt. 1 of 2) Former All-NBA Defender Raja Bell Talks Undrafted NBA Path, First Battles with Kobe, A.I.

Episode Date: February 6, 2020

This week, in the first of a two part interview, Gottlieb talks with former All-NBA Defender Raja Bell on his path to the NBA from growing up in the Virgin Islands, to going undrafted after out of Boston University, to paying his dues in the USBL before getting a shot with the Sixers. He also reflects on his first intense battles with Kobe in the 2001 Finals. Make sure you download, rate and subscribe here to get the latest All Ball Podcasts! Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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the hard way on the iha radio app apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast what's up guys this is clivert taylor the fourth and on my podcast the clivert show i'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff like being an internet famous referee we're in the middle of a game this linebacker this linebacker walks up to me he goes a ref my mom wants you to wave at her what Time out. Quarterback on office blue with 42. Hey, Rhett. My mama want you to weigh better.

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That's 1-800flowers.com slash tune-in. Hey, what up? Welcome into the All-Ball podcast. Listen, we're not going to do trade deadline stuff on the All-Ball podcast. not because it's not important. You have the Doug Gottlieb show podcast where when news breaks, you know, I got an interview with Sam Amick you can download

and where he thinks people are going. And when the trade deadline's done, we'll go through it. Then we have the buyout stuff. Like that's more kind of, this one, well, look, Rajabelle's been a friend of mine for, God, how old am I now? 15 years, maybe.

And I, in many ways, revere him because from humble beginnings, you know, he went to BU, then to Florida International, then like me, kind of bounced around minor league basketball to making it in the league,

like he made it. And it wasn't just he made it, then became a starter, and then he became a fire starter with Kobe Bryant. So I've wanted to have mine for a long time. And I wanted him to tell a story, but then, you know,

the Kobe tragedy happens, and I wanted to have him on for that. So this is a long one. It's a good one. It has kind of, intertwined his life career and when he became this thorn in Kobe's side and kind of has a surprise ending. So there's a lot to it. So without further ado, here's part one. Be sure to catch the live edition of the Doug Gottlieb show weekdays at 3 p.m. Eastern,

noon Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and the IHeart Radio app. All right, let's welcome him in. He's Raja Bell. Raja, how are you? Doug, I'm good, baby. How are you? Good. Look, I actually have an additional pod about your career because I think it's amazing. I mean, in all candor, right? Like, you and I, I mean, like, you went from USBL to NBA to, you know, the Kobe Stopper. But I just think in terms of timeliness, I want to talk Kobe.

Are you cool with that? Yeah, for sure, for sure. All right. You, for people who don't remember your story, you grew up where? I grew up in the Virgin Islands until I was about 13 and then I moved to Miami. So I did my middle school, most of it, and high school in the Miami area. And before that, it was on a small island in the Caribbean playing tennis. Playing tennis.

I know you played tennis. That's fascinating. I played a little tennis for a couple years. My son played some tennis. It's an incredible sport. We should have played when I was in Miami. It's a great, great footwork sport. Great footwork sport.

And, by the way, I was at your campus on Saturday at FIU. That was, they play in the ocean, but they have a cool, they got a cool kind of hangout area during games, right, where they got bottle service and everything. Not that there was bottle service needed on a noon game. But they actually got a nice little squat. They got the big kids, I think you can make the league. Listen, yeah.

That kid went undraft. I mean, I'm not undrafted. He went unrecruited. He pretty sure he walked on at FIU. He quit his high school team. It's ridiculous, but it's part of the issue with FIU. You got me on a hot butt topic now. They actually have the point in the right direction

and Coach Ballard company to put together a nice squad. But prior to that, they were completely under-recruiting our own backyard, and they were going everywhere else looking for this talent. Part of the problem in Miami is grassroots-wise you don't have great teachers of the game, but it's never been about not having the athletes. So if you're good at teaching a game and you can get kids in and help them understand conceptually what you're trying to do and teach a little bit, well, the athletes are already here. And they just, they missed out on so many of those kids that went and wound up being player

of the year and other conferences that it was just, it was a laughable thing. It's actually pretty cool to see them going well. I hate the court, by the way. Like I don't love the ocean and the cabana look, but I know what they're going for, but it's pretty cool to see them playing good basketball. Yeah, I would say this. I don't like that one side because you can't tell there's just too many lines. You can't tell where the three point line is.

I do think when you're at a school like FIU having something like that, right? Something that pops anytime it's on TV, I do think it's a good thing. Is that a crazy way to look at it? No, I think you're absolutely right. It's why I would say that I understand what you're going for. Like, I get it. I just don't love it. And maybe it's because, you know, I don't go through day-to-day what FIU goes through

in terms of having to explain to people who we are. You know, so like, for me, it's almost like, come on, man, like, we don't need that. But we do need that. So I understand what you're going for. I just, I don't love it, you know? Yeah. Well, it's, I've, I had the pronunciation really good Saturday. It's, um, uh, Osagai, right?

Is how you say his last name? Osagai. Anyway, he's six, nine, two 50. He leads the country in block shots. They use him perfectly, by the way. They're running NBA stuff, spread, pick, and roll in the slot. And he's awesome. And I mean, like, look, for people who haven't seen him, like, I'm, we're giving away like

little, this, this is what an NBA big looks like. And when the new staff got there, When Jeremy Ballard got there, like, the previous staff didn't want to keep him, and he was going to quit. And they talked to him in the staying, put him on scholarship, and now he's the best shop locker in the country. It's insane. It's absolutely insane. It's a ridiculous story. We went to watch him.

I would take my boys down. And we'd see the kids sitting there in street clothes or playing, you know, when he was dressed, you know, playing the regular two or three minutes that they'd give him. And there would be no reason to know that he could play just because no one ever gave him a shot to play. It's pretty crazy. The kid Antonio Day, I don't know if you saw him. He's a lot of what they do. He's really good guardians. He's only 18 years old, too.

And he's got a chance. He's got a chance. He played locally in high school, like, up in the area that I live in. And, you know, a friend, a mutual friend of ours was like, look, this kid really wants to go to FIU. could you call the school? And it wasn't Ballard at the time. It was the old coach. I was like, look, you got a kid.

You have to check him out. Like, I think he'd be a good fit. Athletically, FIUs of the world, don't get a look at a kid like this. Not to mention that he's just really gifted in pick and roll. It could really run what they're trying to run right now. But I think he's got a chance to, Doug. He's got a body. He has freaky athletic.

I'm reluctant to say John Morant because Jai is like a 0.01 percentile. but this kid is a super freaky athlete also, and he's really good at pick and roll. Okay, so I know actually, it's getting ready to do the game. You prep, I don't know if you know this story. His dad was shot and killed like five days before he was born.

No. And he's originally from Raleigh. This is Antonio Day Jr. For people don't know, he's a sophomore at FIU, and Jeremy Ballard's doing a really good job there. Anyway, so he's a young sophomore. and who people understand.

Like, I was a holdback, so I graduated high school at 19. He's a sophomore. He's only 18, so he's still developing his game. He's 6-1, 188 or so 190, built like a brick shit house, and a really good, they've made him into a really good ball screen guard, and he can defend. I would say, you know, he's got to shoot the ball better, but he should be able to defend 94 feet to get to the basket, and he's excellent in what they do in spread ball screen stuff, which is all really you do in the NBA.

Anyway, so his dad was shot and killed before he's born, and then he grew up in Rale, and I think only his junior or senior year, he moved down to Fort Lauderdale and went to high school there. Huh? Doug, we tried to kid. I was working at a local high school. Last night, a blown call changed a game.

This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending. opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise. Breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves.

Their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports Slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to Sports Slice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slic Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games.

And in recognition of Mental Health Awareness Month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations. with so many incredible guests. I'm talking. Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it.

And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth? Or are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro.

Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, is we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hardway. Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. What's up, guys? This is Clivert Taylor the Fourth. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker walks up to me, he goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What?

Time out. Quarterback on office blue with 42. Hey, ref, my mama want you to wave at her. What? Hey, Ms. Parker. Listen to the Clifford show on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. If you're watching the latest season of the Real Housewives of Atlanta, you already know, that's a lot. lot to break down.

Gorsha accusing Kelly of sleeping with a merry man. They holding Kay Michelle back from fighting Drew. Pinky has financial issues. I like the bougie style of Housewives show. I think it looks like it's going to be interesting. On the podcast, Reality with the King, I, Carlos King, recap the biggest moments from your favorite reality shows, including the Real Housewives franchise, the drama, the alliances, and the team everybody's talking about.

As an executive producer in reality television, I'm not just watching it. I understand the game. As somebody who creates shows, I'll even say this. At the end of the day, when people are at home, they want entertainment. To hear this and more, listen to Reality with the King on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. One of my good friends coaches there, and so I was helping, you know, helping trying to figure out if I like to do it. So I was helping. And this kid, someone said, hey, man, we got a kid moved down from.

Carolina, you got to check him out. The first time I saw him, I was like, what? What, what do you, what are you talking about this kid? He's not in college somewhere. He's like, look, he's like playing 15 U underarmor. He's, he's a junior, but he's playing 15 you because he's a baby. And even at that point, you were like this, physically, he's different. And a really nice kid, like a really good kid. I had no idea about the dad at the back story there. But I remember when he moved to town, because we hadn't seen anything like him here in the poor Lauderdale area. Yeah, they have a really good staff there.

Ballard, David Kaysan's there, and then Joey Rodriguez. Remember, he played it at VCU. Of course, Ballard was at VCU twice over, and they got a good staff of guys to work with guards, too. I think that's a, I mean, the whole thing is, and I know that Ballard leaves, he'd take them with him. But that's a good little crew they have there.

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Like making sure your kids are buckled correctly in the right seat for their age and size. Learn more at nhtsa.gov slash the right seat. Visit nhtsa.gov slash the right seat. Brought to you by Nitsa and the Ad Council. Anyway, all right, let's get to, that's the most. anyone will ever talk on a pot about FIU, but I was, I was more, I wasn't pleasantly surprised. I was kind of blown away by those two because I could honestly see both those guys having a, having a shot to play in the league, which is, I never thought I would have said before

I threw on tape and then I saw him in person. Right. Okay, so, so like you, you don't have, it's interesting because I didn't, you backing up now, you're talking to me in the car, you're on Bluetooth? Like, all right, make sure you don't hit whatever you're backing up. Go ahead. All right. Put it apart. Go. No, you're good. You can do whatever you've got to do. It's okay. So, like, you're going through the rigors of minor league basketball, right? Yeah. What was, and Kobe was younger than us, what was your first, what your first memory of the name Kobe Bryant was when? It would have those years. I was already a freshman at Boston University. I played that year. So,

It was probably the summer of 95 or 96. It all blends together at this point. But I had some teammates from the Northeast area. Like, you know, we had the Mall Island was represented, and we had a bunch of kids from New Hampshire. And so there were, you know, a lot of guys who knew that North East. And the Boston shootout was coming to town. And so, you know, you had a lot of guys coming in to play.

A lot of big names were there. Like, Steph was coming in. And Paul Pierce had a team in there. B.A.B.C. these great teams. And all my team is, well, you've got to see this kid named Cody Bryant. And I was like, well, where is he, where's he from? I wasn't tuned in or plugged in like that.

But we went over to Boston College to try to watch him play. I'm not even sure that he played that game. But when I got there, the arena was just smashed. And this was before, you know, Brunny plays on TV and you have thousands of people fill in like Target Center or whatever it is. Now, this was pre-all of that. Everybody had lined up to see, you know, Kobe Bryant, whether he was going to dress out or not.

And that's what, that was my first introduction to Kobe. I was like, man, this guy, the name alone carries a lot of weight. He didn't play that day, and I didn't get to see him play at Pornum, but I started following him after that. And then, you know, obviously, you know, when he hit the league, and the glimpses in his, just his rookie season alone when he was able to get out there, you know, You could tell that that was the force they weren't going to be able to hold back for very long.

So then you go to FIU, you get done in FIU. So he transferred, right? You went up to FIU because they had, I mean, you seem, you have to B.U because Frank was there? No, when I went to B.U, it was Brett Brown's dad, Bob Brown. I mean, look, I was a young senior, so I was like 6-5-175. And I had a good senior year, but I got recruited by a lot of mid-majors early. and when the majors started coming my senior year, I just was, Doug, I was a little, like, I was small,

and I guess I didn't have the confidence that, so I wanted to play right away, and I didn't buy it, that Dale Brown was going to be able to play me at the three, start in the SEC as 180-pound freshman. So I chose a small, I chose BU, and I left there because, you know, Shaky Rodriguez got the job at FIU, and they wanted to lead the country in scoring,

and I wanted to lead the country. country in scoring. It never worked out like that, but that's what I wanted to do. Okay, so you come back home, you get done at FIU, and then what? So, look, I didn't know what was going to happen. I had very little NBA interest. I picked my agent because he sat down with me, and he was brutally honest. He said, I saw a lot of players here at the Sunbelt Conference tournament.

He was like, you were one of the better ones. I don't think you could play in the NBA, but I don't think you could play in the MDA, but I think I can make you some money in Europe. So I think James just for the honesty. This was Bill McCandless at the time. Yeah, that was my guy. That was my guy. That was Bill. Bill's a good dude, right?

So I appreciated that, the kind of slap in the face, but at least you're shooting me straight. And I have one workout with the Atlanta Hawks. Pete Babcock had seen me play in the Arizona tournament where we were brought in to be the Cupcake for Penn State. and we beat Penn State, and they were supposed to see Arizona, but Arizona drew us then. And I went up against Jason Terry and Luke Walton and Richard Jefferson, and I had like 24, I think, and they fouled me out with like four minutes to go just to protect the win. And Pete was like, hey man, I know, like, you're not going to Port Smith and you're not going to go to Chicago, but we'll bring you in for a workout.

So I went in, I worked out against Melvin Levitt, Quincy Lewis, and Chris Herron, four-man workout at Georgia Tech. And I don't know what was going on that they did. But like Melvin was known, you know, he was a helicopter. Like I matched him on the Verc that day. Like I shot as well as Quincy did. And no BS because I was never known for ball handling. I probably handled it as well as Chris did.

So the stars just the line for me that day. They didn't draft me, although they said they take me with the last pick in the draft, but they invited me back. Pre-Vet camp, I spent time, obviously, in the USBL with the Tampa Bay Windjammers. traversing Hold on, hold on, hold on, let's not gloss over that because I know I want to make this about Kobe,

but this is awesome. Okay, so just so you know, so McCandless, my deal with McCandless was, he didn't get me any workouts. I went to the USBL, and he was like, look, dude, I'm going to send guys to the USBL

because it's an Oklahoma team. You'll play with some of your guys. You're kind of the guy there, whatever. A couple teams came watching me, but I didn't, I was like, I was kind of pissed at Bill that he was just kind of shipping me overseas. I had in his really passport, whatever, you know,

waiting for me. Right. But I, so, so like for people who were, okay, so Melvin Leavitt was the Levitator, right? He was the one who, who had the nasty dunk, I think, to beat Duke in Alaska. So what was your vert to beat Melvin Levitt on that day? Do you remember? I jump, I jumped 40 that day. That's some point.

That's off a step or off a straight vert or off a run. No, off of one step. They gave me one step. So I took that one step, and I never tested it. Like, FIU never tested anything. So I didn't, I had no idea. I was just going in there trying to. make something out of the little opportunity.

So you go to the Tampa, who is your coach for the Tampa Bay Windjambers? Darren Morningstar. Darren Morningstar. I know that name somehow. Yeah, he played a pit. Good, good dude, but not ready for the responsibility

of running a, you know, any type of pro team, you know, even if it was the USBL. Like, he wasn't ready for that. So we were driving up to Palm Beach, me and two buddies in mine. Every day we were carpooling, trying to get some money together to drive up to just be in this gym with, at the time was probably 25 of us for maybe two weeks. You know, and nobody even knew what the roster was going to be.

We were just going in there and Darren was just putting us through the paces. And then he trimmed the team. And even with 15, it was just as, unorganized. Like you come in and there wouldn't be referees and, you know, I never got a check. And it was just a, it was a shit show of a league. But the competition was actually, competition was good and they played NBA rules and you played against board.

Like, like here's my, so here's my deal. So the next year, so in 2000, I finish. And I was the first pick of the USBL draft, right? And, and so we had, man, I forget the dude's name. Somebody will tweet me and remind me. But we had a, our coaches like a lead scout of the Dallas Mavericks, right? And he, we went through training camp in Enid at Phil. Then Phillips University.

And, and Denny Price, who's I had worked with on my shooting, that's Brent and Mark Price's dad was like an assistant coach. And so, like, we had, and we had legit dudes, you know, we had Willie Burton. was on our team was the ninth pick of the NBA draft, right? Like he had 50 in a game for the heat. We had Willie Burton. We had

we had Bubba Wells who led the country in scoring when you didn't lead the country and scoring. He did it. I think Austin P. And we had like five dudes that had at least a cup of coffee league. Anyway, literally the day

or two days before the first game, like he didn't get paid or something. And he's like, fuck you, I quit. And Brian Gates, who, who, Brian Gates since then, he was like a CBA coach and he's been an NBA assistant. Um, he's, he's still an NBA assistant now. Like, Brian Gates like took over like his first coaching job. And like, it was, it was, the league was nuts.

But I do remember like, Sean Colson was the best player in the league. And I had to, we played them. They were, uh, he was on like the Kansas cages or someone since the line of Kansas. And I had to guard that fucker like, uh, we probably. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in.

I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athletes themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered.

SportsSlice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to SportsSlice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slic Life 12 and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kier Games. And in recognition of Mental Health Awareness Month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking. Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it.

And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Destin. Ross because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth or are you a good person because you're afraid. Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person.

Join me, Kear Gaines, as we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hardway. Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. What's up, guys? This is Clever Taylor the Fourth. And on my podcast, The Clifford Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee.

We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker, this linebacker walks up to me. He goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Come on out. Quarterback on office blue 42. Hey, rec, my mama want you to wave at her. What?

Where's she at? Hey, Miss Parker. Listen to the Clifference. show on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. The story I've told myself about love or relationships can then shape my behavior, and that can lead me to sabotage the possibility of connection. This Mental Health Awareness Month, tune into the podcast deeply well with Debbie Brown and explore the journey of healing, self-discovery, and returning to yourself.

We explore higher consciousness, emotional well-being, and the The practices that help you find clarity, peace, and self-mastery in a world that can feel overwhelming. The world is becoming lonelier. We're not becoming more social and connected. We're becoming more individualized, but we actually meet people in connection. If you've been searching for a soft place to land while doing the work to become whole, this podcast is for you to hear more. Listen to deeply well with Debbie Brown from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the Iheart Radio app. Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast.

I played him 10 times. And, I mean, he, I mean, he was really good. And it was, I couldn't guard him either. I couldn't guard him to CB. I couldn't guard him either. I don't worry about it. Yeah, I mean, it was hell of, so, but, but my point is that in addition to it being kind of crazy, and I do think that craziness weeds out, finds out like, hey, do you

want to play pro basketball? Like, that's my, that was my thing when I went to the FIU game, and I did an FAU game on Thursday, was I told people I was working with. like, hey, this seems like really shitty basketball because there's only, you know, a couple hundred people in the stands. But this is what minor league basketball is like. And, you know, I think a lot of the guys at the bigger schools, like guys I played with, and, you know, Kansas, for example, Kansas guys, very, very rarely can Kansas guys or Kentucky

guys or Carolina guys or Duke guys, can they survive overseas or in the minor leagues? Because you just got to motivate yourself. There's no crowd. There's no fancy locker room. no great shoes, right? There's nobody sucking you off. Like, you just got to go in a hoop. And, and the other guy, and, oh yeah, by the way, the other guy is some guy you've never heard of in your life, like a Sean Colson, who is going to try and kick your ass and embarrass you every fucking night, right? So there is, I think there's something kind of magical to it,

to those of us who've been through it, the realness of it. And you're playing against other players, but it is like everyone's, like, I remember we, so the next year, the windjammers went away. and there were two teams in Florida on that side of the coast. One was in, one was Fort Myers. And the other one was, not Roy Williams, but Roy Jones and those guys had a baseball team. So Roy Jones owned a team in Sarasota, and then there's a team in Fort Myers.

So the way it worked was, yeah, so we flew into Tampa. we drove to Sarasota, played them the next day, then drove to Fort Myers, played them back-to-back nights, drove back, played Sarasota, flew home. So you're playing four games and five nights and, you know, two different teams. But this is what I remember.

Yeah, and you had like, the day off you had was like, you play, we'd play in Oklahoma, then we'd play in Dodge City, Salina, back in Oklahoma twice in a row. And so we'd play four games, and we'd have a day off for, travel. So we land in Tampa and we have essentially kind of the day off because of travel. And we had like a 15 passenger van and then like an SUV. And our radio guy was a guy, we actually

had radio because Oklahoma was like a big thing. It was before obviously they had the thunder. Right. And our radio guy was a local radio guy that covered us at OSU. We had a bunch, we had like five OSU guys. So we, it's got him Robert Allen. We talk him into stopping. We get a case of beer, right we stop in Tampa get a case of beer pound a bunch of beers pull up in Sarasota and hang out and then we play Roy Jones the next day get right to the romance and find the way to wow this valentines with one 800 flowers dot com from classic roses and bouquets to decadent chocolate covered berries gourmet treats and more surprise your valentine with one 800 flowers dot com right now get the 18 stem enchanted rose medley for $3999 or upgrade to 24 red roses for $10 more. Go to 1,800flowers.com slash tune in. That's 1,800 flowers.com slash tune in.

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We play in D.C. I don't remember the D.C. team's name. Play in D.C. And we had Darren McClinton and then we had shit. D. McClinton. Wow. Yeah. Declin's been on the pod.

Great player. Great dude. So DeClin was the other point guard. And then, man, we had a, his buddy, his best, one of his best friends was played at West Virginia. I'll think of it in a second. Anyway, they were, you know, basically D.C. guys. Okay. And so we play that night and it's crazy, like a crazy, crazy, crazy crowd because you got these D.C.

guys coming back. We played at George Washington. So the next. So we sleep in D.C. And then they're like, hey, we play in Bethlehem, Pennsylvania, at Lehigh University, Daryl Dawkins coached the team, the Pennsylvania Valley Dogs, right? Yes.

We play them the next day. And so we get up, it's like all of a sudden everybody's phones ringing like 7 o'clock. And, you know, this is when people had cell phones, but you still call the room. So this is 2,000. So we get up and like, hey, man, we got to go. We got an early game. Like, all right, well, what do you mean,

early game. Like we started at 11 o'clock. Like, what the fuck? Like, you got a bunch of grown-ass dudes who played in D.C. everybody went, you know, all those guys, those D.C. guys went out. And, and we got to get up and play at 11 o'clock. All right. So we shake out the cobwebs. We meet it like eight. We drive a couple hours. We go all the way to Bethlehem, Pennsylvania. And we get there. We're like, hey, we're hungry. Like, no problem. We'll bring you some food. So it was a special day. It was, you know, it's in the summer. So it was a day in which they want to fill up the arena and they did so by getting all the local summer camps and you know free admissions there's kids everywhere you know they got kids in balloons and a bounce house and whatever

meanwhile we haven't eaten shit we played we just played like you know i don't know 12 hours ago not even you know what up 12 hours ago so they're like no problem they bring like hot dogs in to the locker room hot dogs and waters and coax and snickers bars and you know you're like are you kidding me like this is and then they start talking you start talking yourself in you're like Look, when I was 15, I used to go down and play a Miles Square Park, and I'd eat all that shit anyway. So we go out, we play, win the game. We're flying out that night out of Philadelphia because we played in New York and whatever.

And I think we got like $20 or $25 a day per diem. And they like, hand you like $15. You're like, hey, ma'am, where's the rest of my money? Right. No, we took out breakfast. What breakfast? Hot dogs in the stairs. They took out.

They counted who ate how many odd dogs and took it out of your premium. That's the USBL. Give me yours. I had a similar one with Darren Morningstar. He was there. Then he wasn't there. And like I said, I didn't get paid. So I didn't care.

I was just playing basketball. I'm still in my parents. Apparently Darren Morningstar had been pocketing that $25 per deal. So Darren just didn't show back up because that the money. But one of my favorite stories, this was my introduction into like, grown man basketball, do you want to do this shit, or is this not for you? Very similar trip. We go to D.C.C.D.R.A. and those guys at George Washington.

Then we're going to, like, Avalon, New Jersey to play a team. We didn't get the SUV, so we had a sedan. So we were, you know, you stuff your legs in your, like, your back pocket, you cram into these little sedan. We got in at probably, I don't know, 3.30. We were going to play, again, probably a 2 o'clock game, an afternoon game on Saturday. and I get a knock on my door at like 15, 20 minutes after we get there.

And it's one of our vets, and he bangs on the door, and I'm like, what's up, man? And he drops off of a garbage bag. And he's like, hey, I need you to take care of this. And I'm like, well, what to take care of what? And he opens, and everybody's socks and uniforms and jocks and tights and, but you name it. It was in that fucking garbage bag. And it was my job to get up the next morning as the rook. Take that shit to the laundromat.

Sit in the laundromat. wash it all, dry it all, have it handed back out, and then go out and start and try to score 20 the next night. And do that all the way, you know, through the eastern corridor as we tried to win games. And real talk to what you were saying before, like all jokes aside, that shit will weed out like anybody who isn't built for that life. There's no faking that.

You're either on that grind and trying to prove something and wanting to make a living out of that, or you will quickly go take your 9-5 or what have you because you just can't survive. And if you've been coddled at all, if there's any coddling taking place in your life, that will quickly let you know that this isn't for you. And I saw that, Doug, like, James Cotton is a friend of mine, and he played for Shay Cotton's older brother.

So by the time I got to the CBA, James had played for the Bulls. I think he had been on with the Sonics for a little bit. And all I knew was the USBL. So to be in the CBA was a step up. I was on my grind, like, happy to be there, happy for a little bit of $1,000 I made, like happy to be on the court. When James came down, he couldn't accept it. Like, there wasn't an ability to accept not being on a charter plane or in the,

or in the Ritz Carlton and having a share of room or taking a bus. And so he looked after, I don't know, two months, he quit. It just wasn't for him, but he had a taste of something, much better that he wasn't, he wasn't willing to, like, recalibrate and do what he had to do to get back. So you saw that a lot coming through those minor league rights. Okay, Damien Owens was the, he was, I mean, he'd be like a, oh, yes. D.O. could go.

Could go. Okay. Yeah, yeah. And honestly, like, Damien Owens was, he's like a born too soon guy, right? Like, he, right now, like, he would be a hybrid player who could guard every position. He wasn't a great, great, he didn't shoot it well enough for, for 2020 basketball, but he was nice. So we had, how about this team?

So we had Damien Owens. We had LaBradford Smith, right? Wow. Who gave Jordan 31 one night. And then Galen Young, who was a second round pick out of UNC Charlotte, right? He's a coach now. Yeah, yeah, he was nice. We had Bubba Wells.

We had, I mean, we had some dudes now. And I remember, and I've said this before on the podcast. And this kind of lends itself a little bit to what you're talking about, and there's another part to it. And we also had, I told you, Willie Burton. And there was a couple of other guys who, we had Yinkadar. Yinkidari was a CBA. I'll tell you that story in a second.

But I remember I was talking my dad in the phone. And I was like, we were getting ready for the first game or it was late in training camp. I was like, dad, we got some, we got guys that can hoop. Like I don't even understand why Willie Burton's. in the CBA and he's like, son, there's always a reason. And I was like, really? He's like, yeah, he's like, look, there's always a reason. And I go, what do you mean?

He's like, sometimes it's girls, sometimes people, you know, it's their weight. You know, sometimes they won't work. Some kids are, some guys are just dumb, you know, guys are selfish. Yeah. You know, guys smoke, guys drink. He's like, there's always reason why guys don't make it. It's not, usually not because of town. He's like, you know, look, you're in it because you can't shoot or people think you can't

shoot. Like, that's it. There's always a reason why guys aren't in the league. And I remember this, and I'm not going to name names, but I remember driving to the first USBO game in the history of the Oklahoma storm. And I, and I get in my car from the Holiday Inn. And next to the Holiday Inn literally was a strip club. Like in the, in the parking lot is a strip club. And we used to joke like, hey, why don't they just send your check to the strip club and cut the middleman out, Right. And one of the guys who could really play wasn't in the NBA anymore, like his car was in the parking lot of the strip club. Like, this is like two hours for the game. Then I go like, you keep going.

There's a Sonic, you know, like Sonic drive-thru, whatever. One of the guys who could really play was like, was kicking back drinking a 44-ounce Coke and eating two cheeseburgers for the game, right? And then, you know, one of the dudes was just bat-shit crazy. And, like, you kind of keep going on. You're like, oh, that's why they're in this league. So, yeah, it's, okay, so you go to CBA. Where did you play in CBA? I played in Yakima, Wien Gap area.

Like, it's, but I loved it. But who was on my team? We had Art Long, Cincinnati. We had David Vanderbue. Who punched a police horse. Art Long punched a police horse. Yeah. Yeah.

Like, how, how wild do you have to be? to do that shit. I don't need. You have to be fucking, listen. Nobody fouls Art in practice today. Art's having a bad day. Don't foul that dude. Art had six feet of a radius around his locker.

Like, you weren't even, it was just understood. You don't want to be, hear that. You just didn't know what would happen. You didn't know. It was at any given time, so it was better to keep this.

David Vantropole, really good guard. He was, him and Darren McCr, Clinton from that D.C. area. Really good caught a lick with the Wizards for a while. Really good player. Coach the league.

We had Dwayne Cooper. We had a guy named Silas Mills, who was a great at Utah State really good. I'm trying to think Cotton came down for a while. Carlos Daniel. He's the head strength and conditioning guy at Vanderbilt now for their basketball program. We have a really good team. We won a championship that first year. Who's your coach?

Galen Young and all those. Paul Wooper. Paul Wooper, legendary coach, and I believe Australia, definitely in the CBA. And we just had one of those teams, Doug, where you had a lot of guys that were on the same grind, which was like, we don't want to be here, but we're here, and we're going to prove to all you guys why we shouldn't be here, right?

And so we were able to weed out for the most part, the guys that were going to be now we were all you know we we had guys would be in a strip club and stuff like that but for the most part we were all really really hungry and in a really similar mindset and probably time in our life so we were able to capture

you know some magic in a year there and it was great for me because that shit was no illegal defenses I mean obviously NBA rules so at the time it was illegal defense sorry um and you had some gifted gifted

scores. So you talked about Colson, you had Victor Page, you had guys that if they, you Isoed on one side of the court, and it was my job to stop you, there was no help. Like, that shit was a long night because all they did was run Vic off of like a little, you know, a little horns cut, and he got you isolated on that one side of the court, and he was trying to get 50 on. And so there were multiple guys in the CBA, Jamal Robinson, um, trying to think of the dudes who were getting just buckets and were really gifted with the ball. So it really made you understand that there was more to the game than what you put stock in, right?

There was a lot of, there was a lot of shit that went into to play in that game if you wanted to be a pro. And so from there, you know, all of those names that you just mentioned, what they would do with us, and you probably went through it too, is San Antonio would call you in the offseason and say, hey, there's a workout. We want you to come out.

Or Detroit would call you, and there'd be a workout. And when you got there, you'd see 30 people from the CBA that you bumped head with with all year, and you were all there to compete over a two-day span for probably one invite to train camp. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where sports slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source,

the athlete themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff, Nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports Slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to Sports Slice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slic Life 12 and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok.

Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of Mental Health Awareness Month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tript Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it.

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This is help from a hypocrite. the worst advice from the dumbest people you know. Listen to Help from Hippocrat as part of the Mike Coutura Podcast Network available on the IHart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And that was it. Like you were dropped in and they were like, hey, good luck with that shit. And they were going to watch you guys, like beat the shit out of each other for two days and see which one of you would come out alive.

And they might or might not invite you to either Summer League or to their vet camp. And that was CBA life. How'd you make the league? So I don't know how because I too, you know, I had a great relationship with my dad still do. And he would call and be like, how to go. And I'm like, well, I didn't do anything particularly great. Like, you know, their guys are to score better than me and they're guys bigger and more athletic. Doug, I would go in there and I would just play the way I thought I was supposed to, right?

I would defend my ass off. I would share the ball. All the shit that you would think to shine in a scenario like that. that you wouldn't do. You think you need to take it and get 20 in. But I was discounting how good coach Popovich and, you know, the Detroit staff, how good they were at identifying basketball players, right? Like, I think you're reading it wrong.

I think you're doing, or maybe you're being, you're being, you're underselling yourself. Like, here's the mistake that guys make when they go to the CBA or, you're, you're, you're or now the G League, right? Is they like, yo man, I got to get buckets to the league. Like, hey, guess what, dude? You're in the, they have guys in the NBA that can get buckets.

Right. But, yeah, the guys that make, right, the guys that make 30 or $40 million a year, they get buckets. Now, look, you've got to be able to make a shot. Right, you got to be able to make a shot, but can you do all, like Billy Donovan says, the 95% of the time you don't have the ball?

Can you, if you're a point guard, like I tell us all the time, I nailed the Kendall Marshall thing, and Kendall Marshall's dad's, like, tweeting, I mean, and I feel bad that the kid got hurt, and so, but my thing was, like, Kendall Marshall couldn't be a backup point guard in the league, and people didn't understand. I was like, look, when you're a backup point guard in the league, you've got to pick up 94 feet, you've got to change the tempo of the game, you've got to be able to make a shot, you've got to push the basketball.

He was a great passer, but he couldn't really shoot, he couldn't really finish, and it can't really guard anybody. and in order to get the volume of assist, you have to get the volume of touches. When you're playing 10 minutes a game, you're playing against some backup point guard who's a converted to who's just trying to come out and get by. Like, you can't do that.

Anyway, my point is that, like, dudes go to the G League or go to those workouts and like, man, I'm going to get buckets. That's how I get to league. Like, no, dude, like. And it's not right. Right. That's the, I see, if you can go one-on-one and a shot clock and get a bucket, that that's great.

But we have two guys that get. paid 20 to 40 million dollars that can do that. You got to guard. You got to move the ball. You got to stay out of the fucking way. We have a whole roster of guys that can do that. We're looking for one piece. But no one explain that for me, right?

So, like, I'm in there just doing what I think is playing solid basketball, while a lot of other people are doing that. And so, you know, what happens was I get that, I get that invite to vet camp because I am the one that they're like, oh, shit, he'll guard somebody. You know, a fascinating thing, because I see a job. to this day, and I work with a lot of high school kids, a lot of them that won't ever play in college. And I talk a lot to them about, like, hey, man, look, it's, when you're playing on a team,

it is valuable to have a role, a defined role, buy into that role, and be the best in that role that you can be. Like, not everyone can have this job. And it's unfortunate. Like, I know your mom doesn't really hear that, or your dad wants to take you and transfer, and I'm okay with that because everyone has to do what's best for their kid. But sometimes you've got to understand what your fucking role is and you have to play it.

And so, you know, those guys that you're talking about, what I like to say about them is they were just too good for their own good, right? Like, too gifted with the ball to put value in doing anything other than having the ball in their hands. Never mind that Alan Iverson was, you know, 10 times better than you'll ever be with it. You're just nice enough with it that you think it's supposed to be yours, That's just not the reality. So, you know, I wind up getting pulled out of those CBA, like, mosh pits because I wasn't good enough with the ball to ever misconstrue it.

I'm like, okay, fuck, well, I got to do something else. And so I figured out what I could do, which was defend and, you know, knock down shots. Look through your children's eyes to see the true magic of a forest. It's a storybook world for them. You look and see a tree. They see the wrinkled face of a wizard with arms, outstretched to the sky. They see treasure and pebbles.

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Our imagination. Our sense of wonder. And our family bonds grow too. because when we disconnect from this and connect with this, we reconnect with each other. The forest is closer than you think. Find a forest near you and start exploring at Discovertheforest.org. Brought to you by the United States Forest Service and the Ad Council. So did you go to camp and make the league or did you get to call up and make the league?

Yeah, so I wind up going. So here's, like, I mean, we just go on. So I wind up going to San Antonio, Summer League. I, they pull me out of Summer League and Alvin Gentry is like, hey, what contract right now. We don't want you to go out there and try, literally fed to me. We can't have you going out there and get a deal from anybody else, so we're going to shut you out. So I'm like, all right, cool, but I got my money, so I'm straight. So I go to vet camp.

Antonio Daniels takes me out. We've got a new Lexus. Like, I'm just bugging out, right? Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, hold on. You bought a new Lexus the second you got some money? Yeah, soon as I got it. What is this? What is this?

This is 2001, maybe. What Lexus? 2001. It was a GS 430, maybe? It was a GS 430. You know they had a GS. It was a 330 or 430. Yeah, yeah.

That was the first. When I first got money, I got a used version of that with some sweet rims on it. I got the same car. I kind of called ass. That was a great car. That was a great car, right? So I'm like doing it. Like, I'm in, I'm a spur.

I'm in the hotel. We're looking for apartment. And then training camp ends, and they're like, yeah, dude, we're going to cut you. I'm like, what? What the way? Wait a minute. What the fuck? So they decide to keep Derek dial because the one part that I hadn't been able to put together, Doug, was really understanding how to space the floor and where to be a pick and roll. And it was obvious when you watched me play, even in the early tape with the Sixers,

like when shit was going on, I didn't know where to be. I played hard. I defended. I could do some things, but I didn't know how to just chill in the corner and lift out of the corner when I was strong. I didn't understand that yet. And so I needed that. I needed to learn how to play. So I go back to the CBA and then I get into. Back to Yakima?

I go back to Yakima, right? The leak folds. Not before I break my leg, though. So I go home. How did you break your leg? It sets a blind screen on me while I'm hawking the ball of 94 feet. And I couldn't get my leg out from under me. So I fall all the way over it and I break the non-weight-bearer and bone

in the lower half of my mind. my left leg. So I'm back now to, is it the IBL now in Sioux Falls, South Dakota? And I had not played a game. It's Randy Livingston. It's myself. It's Jamal Robinson and Carlos Daniel. And I have not played a game, but I'm going to suit up the next night for the first time.

And I'm sitting at Denny's. We're eating breakfast and the phone rings. And he says, hi, is Rajah there? This is Tony DeLeo from the 76ers. and my uncle is full shit so I'm like Uncle Chuck stop fucking with me

man I hang the phone up and so I go back to Eden and they're like oh what I'm like don't worry about it it rings right back and he's like remember no rush

here's this is Tony DeLeo from the 76ers we'd like to offer you a 10-day contract and you hadn't played a game I hadn't played a game I hadn't played a game

since I don't know fifth six game into the CBA season so I'm like fuck I just got

I just got called up um I just got get my shit. I get to Philly. And I asked Larry Brown, I'm like, yo, you know, what, what's the deal? He's like, look, Pepe got traded. He missed the deadline for us to be able to reacquire him for him to make the playoff roster, so we need a body for the playoffs. And I'm really good friends with Pop. Pop said you were great in camp. He was like, look, you were, you know, you just weren't ready to play. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind.

Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise. Breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down,

give you context and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who love. live them. Listen to Sports Slice on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing,

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He was like, but you were everything that you'd want in a guy for this spot on a team. He was like, he was my best man in my wedding. We're really good friends. So he was like, if you ever get a chance, to call this key call. So that's Doug. Like, I say this in a shorter version to kids at every basketball camp I speak at. And it's corny as shit.

And it's crazy. It's okay. It wasn't how I scored the ball or how big I was or how many thugs I had or assist or rebound. What got me in the NBA was I was a good dude. I worked really hard. I impressed that. That impression was made on Greg Popovich. And he spoke up for me with a lot of the NBA.

Larry Brown and they pulled me up. That's how I got to the NBA. Yeah. It's, you know, like, this is the thing, and we, we, look, and I don't want to get into, like, a political discussion. I do think that what's always been lost in a, like, a Kaepernick thing, right? Is you got to have what I call a rabbi in the room, somebody who believes in you. And, like, look, I think Kaepernick would have been back in the league had his girlfriend not put

out the meme about the Ravens owner. Why? Because Greg Roman was his offensive coordinator in San Francisco. He was in Baltimore. Like, that was his guy. That was his guy who could vouch. You have to have somebody who's going to vouch for you. And by the way, Kaepernick originally lost his job because he, people didn't see him as a leader. He was a louv. He had his headphones on. If you remember, at the facility, there's always, and anyway, the point is like, there's a lot more. Like, like I said, there's always a reason, right? Like, nobody wants an asshole. And I, this is how I say it. I'm not nearly as nice as you are. I tell college kids all the time.

Like, hey, look, I know you all think you're going to league. But listen, if you're LeBron, you can be an asshole. Like, he's not, but you could be an asshole. If you're Janus, you can be your so, you're your staff, you could, none of them are. They're incredible guys, but you could be a dick and nobody's, you're, you're so good, it doesn't matter. But if you're the 15th dude, you have to be the world's greatest human being. Every day.

Pete Carill, the old, uh, pretext. coach, you want to be a light bulb, right? You want to light up every room that you walk into. Like, look, that's why Scotty Brooks has been on my potty? He's head coach. Like, why do you think Scottie Brooks made it in the league? Like, he was a great score in college at UC Irvine. But, like, and he was tougher than shit.

You got to be tough, but then you got to be a guy that everybody loves. And that's what you were. And that's how, right? And it wasn't until Greg Popovich swore. Okay, so you're with the 76. What time of year is this? This is April, dude. This is like, I don't know, five.

six games left in that 2001 season. So I just got there when the playoffs started. They had to give me a second 10 day to hold me over for like four days until the playoff started so I could be on their playoff, Ross. So how much did you play? I'm looking at your stats. I actually know the answer. I don't play at all.

I played in Indiana one night, I think, probably 10 or 15 minutes. Through the first round of the playoffs, we played Indy 7, I think. We played Toronto 7, and what happened was in the Toronto series, we didn't have anybody who could guard Vince. So to remember the series, Vince and Allen, it was like an all-time sports series between those two. It was some of the best scoring I've ever seen or witnessed, like, in person, those two from game to game kind of going back and forth, right?

But within that series, there's, you like, NBA practices at that time of the year. Nothing fucking going on. Like, you're coming out. You're walking through what happened. like the day before. The starter aren't doing anything. So you're maybe getting some three-on-three with some of the guys that are on the bench,

but probably not. So you're probably just going to go out there and get some shots up, and if there's a rookie, maybe you get to play him 101. So we were doing very little. But the conversation in practice was, who can guard Vince?

And, you know, I was like, you know, a little sheepish at first. I could garden. And they were like, you know, I remember them looking at him. Mary Brown and Dave Hanners and John Custer, just dismissive. Like, you're right, whatever.

So that series goes on. They don't play me in that series. The same problem going into the Milwaukee series where it's like, all right, who can guard Ray? And, you know, I'm again, I'm like, I can guard it. And so, you know, we get in a game. I think it's game five, maybe. Game six, like, I don't play early in that series. we go down by, I want to say, like, 25 or 26 in Milwaukee.

And so at that point, they're going to clear the bench. And when they cleared the bench, we brought them all the way back to within striking distance to where they're like, all right, we're going to put the starters back in and try to close it. Now, the starters didn't close it. But it's another thing I say to these fucking kids, man, look, you get an opportunity to just stay ready, man. Like, to the best of your ability, be ready when your number's called. because you don't know if you ever get that opportunity again. You never know.

So, like, I made an impression to where they played me game seven. When they played me game seven, Doug, I was having an outer body experience. Like, I come in, I get a dunk, I get a steel and a dunk. I hit a three out of the corner. Like, I had one Tim Thomas. It was, I was watching it from somewhere in the stand. That's how, like, crazy this moment was for me. But that was the rest of it was what it was.

Like, they played me the rest of the finals. and then once Larry Brown fell out of love with me the next year I barely played for Philly. But, you know, the roller coaster of emotion, like, the lowest of lows having, like, been out of the CBA even with a terrible leg injury to playing in the Eastern Conference finals in game seven, like the first sub off the bench, was like I couldn't even, it's like Hollywood type shit. So you go and you play the Lakers in the NBA finals Yeah Okay, so now we get to the Kobe stuff Right? Yep

Game one was the You guys go and steal game one AI scores 48 Should be pointed out He took 41 Fucking shots Can you imagine taking 41 shots in a game Uh?

No consequence That's of no consequence No no no 41 shots. By the way, you were a plus 11. Not sure if you're aware. He played 19 minutes. Okay.

What was the, what was the scatter report? Kobe struggled that game, 7 of 22. Shaq was 17 of 18. He was nasty. Shack had 44. 44.

That's because you guys, and you guys had Mutum, right? Like he... Defensive player at a year. Right. And Shaq had 44. 44 and 20. and five assists, and they lost.

Okay, so what was the, what do you, what do you remember about the first Scatter report? Kobe Bryant. I don't remember the scouting report on Kobe. I remember, I remember watching the film on him and trying to figure out, like, what I could do. Because, again, I didn't remember, I didn't know offense yet. So I didn't understand, like, the intricacies of the triangle.

I didn't understand, like, I did what I was. older about how I could, what spot he wanted to be at. But I just, you know, I watched the guy on film and I was like, Jesus, like, you know, this isn't a jump shooter, but this isn't, this isn't a guy who can't shoot a jump shot. It's, it's, this is a, like, well-rounded scoring machine. Like, what am I going to do? And so what I decided to do was what, what just boilerplate, like, deny the hell out of him. If I could stop him from getting the ball, um, wherever he went, then I stood a chance to, like,

slow him down. It wasn't great team defensive principles, but at that point, it was, yeah, I was trying to buy. Listen, just so you know, just so you like my, so my dad was a college coach, coach some professionally. But then he became this AAU coach. And it's the same flaw, like, and I'm always fascinated that so many people don't employ, employ this philosophy, which is like, hey, when push comes to shove, just deny the guy the ball, you cut down the number of possessions he gets the ball. You're already kind of winning there, right?

Like that's because they're like, eh, ah, fuck it, I'll go the other way. I mean, and the triangle, which I know you know really well now, I got a chance I was with the Lakers in their Summer League and in three of their vet mini camps and pre-agent mini camps, whatever, and my dad coached under Tex. And the entire, the triangle is based upon where the ball moves.

Like there's a defined movement and spacing based upon the one pass, the two passes, you know, the three pass. and it's amazing that like look if you just deny him the ball and they have other guys they'll pass it to somebody else correct and someone else is going to shoot it and so that's where I found that's the space I found myself in early with Kobe and it was just like let's try to keep it out of his hands and see what we can do with it the problem with that was like after

game one I don't remember what the numbers were I remember feeling like yeah you got you did you did a good job like not really feeling yourself but feeling proud of the job that you had done and it led to a win and then the rest of it was downhill bro it wasn't yeah you're in trouble after that um i i know i want to talk i want to make this mostly about Kobe but there was also that was obviously the game in which uh AI made the shot over ty lu and stepped over him um what what was AI like oh AI was a special one brother Look, no, I'll just side. Hey, listen. Oh, shit. Listen, man, I knew that as a second-year player, that I had to get to the hotel, get everybody's bags and help get that shit out.

And if I could be back down in the lobby within an hour, everyone would have done what they needed to do, and then they'd be congregating back in the lobby to get into a limo to go to wherever the party was that night. And it was every city you went to. So I just had to hustle to get my shit, get everybody's shit passed out, and then back down the lobby so I could be a part of like whatever's going on that night. And it was he took care of, he took care of, and not just like not a financial thing,

but he just, if you were his rook, he was making sure you were looked out for, right? Like his boys and people to roll the news, making sure everything was taking care of. Like he was a phenomenal teammate. As a player, an older player would have been probably a little frustrating for me to play. with him because you just barely got the ball. If you did, it was like late in the shot clock. And he was brilliant, but I wouldn't have loved that just full distinct. You'd be honest, like, as an older player, I wouldn't have loved that.

But for where I was in my career, it was great. And, you know, I had some good times to play with AI, man. He was a special one. I love that. I never forget my, my, he was Bobbichuk, and we played against me. I was at Notre Dame. And we started five white dudes. And my boy, Antonio Weish, who's now.

and assistant at Sienna. He checks into the game, and one of our guys, somebody shooting pre-throws, and it's me, Bubba Chow, or AI, and Tone,

and we're, like, sandwiching him. They're shooting free throws. Games on Big Monday. And he goes, yo, man, what's up with all the white dudes at Notre Dame?

He goes, five? Really five? He's like, I'd never seen some shit like that. I go, you're in Indiana. He was funny.

He was a funny dude. Yeah, he was the right. When did the, When did, was it, because you went, you went to Dallas and you became a starter, okay, but it wasn't really until you went to Utah. But between Dallas and then Utah, even before Phoenix, you know, now you're playing against Kobe, I don't know how many times you guys play.

It seemed like 10 times a year. Yeah. When did it start to become a thing between the two of you? Yeah, it started to heat up in probably my, second year in Utah, in my first stint in Utah, when I was, he knew that I was going to be out there, right? Like, this wasn't like, you might see Raj tonight, you might not see him. But I was going to be there, and I was starting to feel myself to the point where

it wasn't just happy to be there anymore. It wasn't happy to be guarding Kobe anymore. It was, like, I want some of that smoke. Like, I want to, like, let's go. Now, you know, I was never going to be able to do any of the, things that he did. But the inner competitor in me had passed the point of being like happy to be there. I was now ready

to like let my full competitive you know, like self come out. And so that's when it started to get a little test. That second year, he and I got in the dust up like right across from our bench. I think he hit me with an elbow in the face and like kind of

you know one of those where you're a triple thread and you're just taught to like you know, if I'm crowded your space, you're going to swing through and make me back up, you know? and so he clipped me right under my eye. You know, I motherfucked him. And we got, you know, the rest had to get involved. And that particular game was one.

Because I think, like, after I got hot, he said something to the rest. I had like 20-something in the game against him, right? And I don't know who won the game, but I remember it was one of my better scoring performances against him. Who's this with Dallas or with Utah? Utah. This is with Utah. And at that point, I then knew. All right.

Like, I might, I'm never going to be disillusioned to think that I'm like that. But I'm going to, I'm here to compete. Every time I see him, I want to compete. And that's, that's kind of when it took off. And then when we got to Phoenix, the whole thing just blew up. It got, you know, it took all the life of its own that first year. Okay. So this is where, and I did a pod where I talked a little bit about what became my relationship with him.

Right. And I'm, I was under the impression. You tell me I'm wrong. I was under the impression that a lot of dudes in the NBA, especially, you know, for a good portion of his career, didn't like him. Is that wrong? Am I mistaken?

Like, what was his, what were other guys? Because now he's, even before his death, like he was revered. What was his, by the way, you had 26 in that game, if you want to know. There you go. Yeah, you guys did lose. You took the L.

Right. It was in L.A. You're talking about? In L.A., yes, sir. Okay. It was March 28th of 2014. You were 9 of 17 from the 4. You got 17 shots up.

Damn, dog. Hey, I got my jacks up. No, you were getting your jack up. That year you were getting shots. That's right. Six of 10 from the line, though, what was going on? I mean, you could have had even more. But, you know, you were a plus seven, so it's not your fault that your team lost.

Kobe was 8 of 23. He got 21 free throws. Damn, dude, 21 free throws. He got taken care of. That was the year they lost it. Listen to their lineup. This team did not win the NBA championship. Shaq, Kobe, Carl Malone, Gary Payton, and Rick Fox.

That was their starting lineup. And they brought Derek Fisher off the bench and Kareem Rush, Slava Medvedenko, Luke Walton, Devin, George, Brian Russell, and Brian Cook. That was what you call a top-heavy run. roster. Anyway, they beat you. They beat you on that. You guys had AK-47, your boy Carlos Arroyo, right? Yes, sir. Jaron Collins, Gordon Girichick, and you had Googs on your team, Tom Gugliata. You came out the bench with Raul-Lopez, Mikey Moore, Sasa Pavlovich, and Oster Tag, Michael Ruffin and

Moe Williams played a minute. Be sure to catch the live edition of the Doug Gottlieb show weekdays at 3 p.m. Eastern, noon Pacific. All right, that's it for part one of my Kobe slash Rajabell talk with Rajabelle. Okay, stay tuned for part two. We're not going to wait a whole week. We'll drop that sucker tomorrow the next day or whatever. We'll figure it out.

But I thought you'd enjoy it. Just a quick programming note. The Doug Gottlieb show is every day three to six Eastern, 12 to 3 Pacific. And, of course, you can download the Doug Gottlieb show podcast. That's where you'll have up-to-date information. stories and commentary on the trades that are made or are not made and what it means for the league. Anyway, look, the new one's going to pop up in your queue very, very soon. But tell a friend to download this one and they'll get the next one as well.

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Fine. Whatever. I don't know if that hurts us. Probably does. But if that makes you feel better, good, I guess. Thanks for listening. I'm Doug Gautley. This is All Ball. Get right to the romance and find the way to wow this valentines with 1-800flowers.com. From classic roses and bouquets to decadent chocolate-covered berries, gourmet treats, and more.

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That's where SportsSlice comes in. I'm Timbo, and every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the biggest moments in sports and giving you the real story behind the headlines. And we're going straight to the source, the athletes themselves, their locker room stories,

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We do some retirement home. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, what's good, y'all? You're listening to Learn the Hard Way with your favorite therapist and host Kear Games. This space is about black men's experiences, having honest conversations that it's really not safe to have anywhere, but you're having them with a licensed professional who knows what he's doing. How many men carry a suit or armor? It signals to the world that you're not to be played with.

And just because you have the capability that does not mean that you need to. Listen to learn the hard way on the AHA radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. What's up, guys? This is CliverTaylor the 4th. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker, this linebacker walks up to me.

He goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Time out. Quarterback on office blue with 42. Hey, Wreck, my mama want you to weigh better. What? Hey, Miss Parker. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.

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