The Herd with Colin Cowherd - All Ball - Pt 2: Andrew Bogut Discusses Bucks Passing on Steph, Warriors First Title Run, Game 7 Loss to Cleveland, Draymond

Episode Date: March 4, 2021

In this episode, Doug sits down for the final installment of his conversation with NBA champion and former #1 overall pick Andrew Bogut. They dive into the infamous trade that never was with the Bucks passing on Steph Curry for Monta Ellis, and gives an inside look at the Warriors incredible first title run in 2015, the growth of Draymond, the devastating Game 7 Finals loss to the Cavs after holding a 3-1 lead in 2016, and if there's any situation that could convince him to un-retire. Make sure you download, rate and subscribe here to get the latest All Ball Podcasts! Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter.

Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque.

Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On the Look Back at it podcast.

For 1979, that was a big moment for me. 84 was big to me. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a year, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. With our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite authors. Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s.

84 was a wild year. It was a wild year. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th.

You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfilled conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Remember all those big dreams used to have? And then life made other plans. With a Mercedes-Benz Sprinter van, it's time to bring those dreams back. Start your own business

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Go to FTD.com and save 15% through February 14th with Code Crush 15 and celebrate your love story with iconic roses, florals, and gifts from FTT. Hey, welcome in. I'm Doug Gottlie, and this is all the reminder. You can listen to Doug Gottlieb. Jeff Gaveen, 3 to 6th Eastern, 12 to 3 Pacific, on Fox Sports rated, the IHAR Radio app, or you can download that podcast if you, you want. If you ever want to contact me,

IG, Gottlieb Show, Twitter, Gottlieb show, or the Doug Gottlieb show on Facebook. Any of this stuff I check daily, sometimes weekly, whatever, I'll get to it. In the meantime, without further ado, I'm not going to do much of an intro about other stuff going on. I will update you on my thoughts on the NBA draft, on college basketball, we're getting ready. We're in March, et cetera, et cetera. There's be more and more of these pods. But this is too good. When we last taught up with Andrew Bogot, we had heard stories of him growing up in Australia out in a suburb of Melbourne, Melbourne.

I always feel weird. Should I be saying Australian cities in an Australian, I should have asked him this, an Australian accent? Like, should I call it Melbourne or should I call it Melbourne? I don't know. You tweeted at, I mean, at Gottlieb show. Anyway, outside of Melbourne, he grew up in a small suburb, passed over time and again for all the big clubs. He didn't even get to play in the national championship thing, but all of a sudden he made it to AIS, which is the top 12 kids at his age, and he became a superstar. Goes to Utah, Placeric McJaris, great stories.

So we had growing up stories. We had, if you missed it, download that's part one. It's really good. Now we get further on towards the NBA. So without further ado, let's catch up. Part two of our conversation with former NBA star, Andrew Bogart. I'm sure you know this story, but I'm going to tell it anyway, because I was, Chris Mullen told me this to be true, is that they, they told Milwaukee you can have Steph or Monta you pick,

and they pick Monte. That's the story. I know the story personally because the person who looked over the medical files, I had a good relationship with and was told the exact same thing. the person that was involved in looking over him

her role or their role was to strictly look at the medicals that was the only opinion the club asked for them that the club would do the talent evaluation

they just said look at these two medicals and tell us which one's better and there was huge concerns of a single at that point and he got the mark

on his name saying this guy's got a you know his injury history is worse and could potentially play less games than Monta

and they went more take. So that's a 9% Which is crazy. It's crazy on two levels. First on the bucks, right? For not. But also for the warriors. Because the warriors are like like, look you have like and what he's become, it's really

I get roasted because when he left college, I just didn't think, I didn't see it because he was so slight. And I was like, I know how much funny is to walk, play. And when I, when he first left, he'd only played point for a year. I was like, man, I don't know. I guards anybody.

he's so slight but I also came from the generation when I was playing professional basketball was so much more physical obviously officiating change but it it so I get crushed because of who he's become like I thought he'd be hornetet that's who I thought he'd be that was my that was my com play both positions really shoot but a ceiling there and obviously it's become when you got there so you get there camp are you healthy in camp no no no no so my ankle a lot of people don't know I ended up having a micro fracture on that surgery, which I didn't know going into surgery. It was kind of done on the whim because I didn't know how bad it was. And so I get traded there with all this hoopline attention.

The Warriors have finally got a big man, blah, blah, blah, blah. So I'm feeling that and I'm like, man, I want to be out of the court. Like they've invested in me. So I broke my ankle in January. I made training camp in September, stupidly. I should have been out nine or 12 months back in September. and like got to the fourth game, made the fourth game of the season

and my ankle just, it would literally be the size of a balloon after a training session or a game. So I had to shut it down until February and then came back and was basically taking injections and painkillers just to get through that season. We made the playoffs.

That was that year we beat Denver and took San Antonio to six. But yeah, I wasn't, I wouldn't say I was entirely healthy, which was frustrating. What did you think of Steph, that point and what do you remember your initial impressions up? I just the way he shot the ball was unbelievable.

I'd be lying to say that I'd ever say he'd be the two-time MVP. You know, I think, you know, there's not many people that thought that. Even if you look back at that trade, Warriors fans essentially didn't think that. Like, no matter what they say now, you know, there were Warriors fans that that love Monta and would probably have preferred to keep him back then over staff, you know? the beauty of that trade wasn't necessarily just the Monta for me. It was freeing up Steph to be that guy and have the ball in his hands. The knock on Monta was back then, he was fantastic for the Warriors,

but he was a huge stats guy. And he was somewhat competing with Step at times about whose team is this. And that's what a lot of people don't realize. And I think that Warriors move ended up being genius. Even if Monta was traded for a water cooler, it freed up stiff to be who he was and show that he could leave that team. I would tell you this, okay? So here's the underrated part about you.

And this is the part which I feel like non-basketball people, or maybe even what I do in broadcasting, we make everything very kind of linear for people to understand. But it's that you're a great pastor. Draymond's a great pastor. You look at some of those bench guys that were at, added as well that were, you know, actually, you know, like end up being point guards, really. When he became one of the reasons he was able to become who he became, Sean Livingston,

former point guard, right? Is, yes, technically, Steph, I guess is a point guard, but he's equally, if not more dangerous off the basketball as he is with the basketball. But the only way that works is if other guys can get it to him and can move it. And yes, freeing up Steph to handle the ball. more helped. But he also essentially brought in a point center.

You were such a great passer and a great screener, legal or illegal, whatever. Like those two things, I think, and I want to get to the Cavs series when you got hurt,

but those two things, I think forever go underrated in what helped him go from where he was to where he is now. Is that fair? I think so. I think, you know,

the first thing started with Monta, who was a guy that would go ISO a lot, so took that portion away from. from the team and what was going on. But Steph's, in my estimation, I don't have a better one two man moving off the ball in NBA history in my books.

I think he's phenomenal moving off the basketball and creating opportunities for guys to slip just from his movement off the ball and his willingness to move off the ball. There's not many superstars in the league you can go up to and say, we're going to put you off the ball for eight minutes. They're going to lose their shit.

You know, let me get in my bag. I can just break him down with the ball one-on-one. We're step will happily do that. And, yeah, having the pieces around, Dremont, myself, guys that can screen and get him open, guys that can read off that screen, Andre E Goudala, who can pass as well as myself or Dremon. Everyone knew how to handle the ball,

everyone knew how to move the ball, and everyone just knew how to play basketball. And it just ended up being natural and in sync. A lot of our offense wasn't called by Steve Kerr. It was 90% of it was just in the natural flow of reading React basketball, which you can't just do with any roster. You can't, you know, we had that roster of guys. I spoke about it at length a few weeks ago on the Robo's.

I said like Andre Goodalah would lose his shit when we had guys that weren't high IQ players because they could have fitted in with that flow and they just stick out like a score thumb because you could just tell like they didn't know how to read and react. They needed a coach to say run from point A to point B, something very regimented and he'd just basically go to coaches and GMs

and get this guy out of here, you can't play here. And it made total sense. Dremont. You first meet Dremont. What was your first impression of this two? Well, he was kind of a little bit different than he is today because he was a second round. I know. He was kind of, yeah, he was

a little overweight. He wasn't as he had an intensity about him. He wasn't as vocal as he used today. He would be the first to you and he's been on record saying this that if mark jackson was still the coach he'd probably he'd probably be playing in europe right now and he based that on that mark was trying to play him at the three because he was only six six you know and draymond's not a three man you know so once once

steve even mark later on the end of his tenure figured out you can play him at the four and then Steve even went more extremes instead of the five yeah it opened up his game perfectly because he's a guy that plays way bigger than his size. His wingspan's huge. But, I mean, yeah, to see Dremont's growth has been fantastic. And he's an epitome of a guy that could have been potentially out of the league, just not taking no for an answer, and then becoming an all-star and a, you know, a guy that's invaluable for his team.

Did you like him right away? I got along with him. Yeah, look, Drainman and I have butted heads. He's butted heads with everyone in the organization, from the coaches to people that put the popcorn in the, bags. That's just Draymond, right? He's an intense character and it's ever rarely personal. And I've gotten into it with him numerous times, but we were poker buddies, you know, we hung out a lot and he was fun to be around. But, you know, some days, you wouldn't talk to

him for a day because you get into it and you'd leave it. But the next day, it's, it's over and you get on with life. And that's, that was the beauty of that team. We had, we had a lot of those scuffles throughout the seasons on court during games, during practices, but we knew the next day, it is what it is. Let's move on. Outside of playing Dremont at the four and the five, what else about Steve Kerr changed everything? He didn't like come in and like change a lot, to be honest with you. He left that defense as it was. Ron Adams tweaked a few small things, but his whole thing was turnovers. Like, I don't know what we were. I know the numbers in front of me, but we were top 10 turnovers before Steve came in, probably even top five.

he said if we can get that down just five turnovers or four turnovers, we're going to win a championship. And we did, you know, and he was big on just looking after the ball. They charted passes per possession. So I think four or more passes that first season was, we shot in the 50s or the high 50s, 60 percent with four or more passes in the possession. And when it was two or less, it was like high 30s or low 40s. So they charted things like that.

Movement, don't turn it over. You guys win a championship. do everything else the same. And he was really big on that. To the extremes of opening training camp was high school-type training camp, dribbling balls through cones, passing the ball through a toss-back net. You know, all right, we're doing chess passes. Now we're doing a bit.

And Traymond was like, what the fuck is this shit? We're not in high school anymore. Like losing it. Losing it during training camp. But the method of the madness that Steve implemented, I understood, because he was like, I'm planting your brains. if you guys need to be treated like high school kids to make sure you guys are making fundamental plays

we're going to do these super drills. You know, if we have a game where we turn it over 20 times, guess how we start to practice that next day doing all that bullshit. So then we kind of guys are like, oh, if we don't want to do this shit anymore, let's make sure we're fundamental and we work.

Okay, so the first year, you won a championship in the first year, though, right? So the first year he gets, first year with Steve, you won 67 games. Yeah. Right. I mean, crazy stuff. And you get to the NBA, you get to the NBA finals,

and that was when Kyrie got hurt, right? First game, is that an overtime game? Kyrie got hurt. But what was that run like? You, the Cavs, the first time. What do you remember? Just being in the finals and the circus that goes along with being in the finals was interesting. It was just, I guess everything changes.

You can't use your own practice facility. You've got media everywhere. It's a lot of time constraints. I remember that and just the attention. I mean, to realize you're the last two teams standing in basketball at the time was interesting. And just the shift in the series, you know, we went really small. I kind of played a lot early and then towards end of the series didn't play a lot. and I think just understanding that it was hard at the time

and Steve said look we're not going to start you you're going to play limited minutes we want to go smaller with 3rd 1-5 the numbers look much better and that he really have a scoring big whereas at the series before with Memphis with Zibo and Gasol you know I was playing 30 minutes and guarding those guys because they were big threats in the post so

took a bit to understand but once I did you know how to ring on my finger Okay, one of the big memories in that series was Delhi was great the first couple of nights, right? Yeah. But Delhi all of a sudden got this reputation of being a little bit dirty. And like, Deli is your boy, right? Now, look, Delhi is probably a little bit, but, I mean, if you won't be a backup point guard in the NBA, right? You've got to be willing to get dirty, right?

You've got to be a little bit more physical. You've got to, you have to change the pace of the game. So this is, he's not in the NBA if he's not tougher than a $2 steak. But as a guy who, I know he's your competition, but he's also your friend and you're watching out, everybody's talking about him like he's some dirty player. What was that like? I hated Daly during that series. You know, even though he was my friend, like I think when you're in that moment, you know,

he's my enemy to the national team, which was a couple of months later. So he had a hell of a series the first couple of games. and but he was he was a guy that hadn't played a whole lot of minutes in the regular season I think he was playing 15 a game 10. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential.

Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping them. I'm sorry. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win.

A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined.

And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need. to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your

podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam Jay. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a here. unpack what went down and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack.

I'm down to talk about crack all day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you finishing that sentence. Yes. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. People. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history.

Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hard Way with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of Mental Health Awareness Month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, We get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch.

Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth. Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Keir Gaines, as we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hardway.

Open your free iHeartRadio app, search Learn the Hardway, and listen now. 15 a game, maybe. Then all of a sudden, Kari goes down, he's playing 35, 40, and they got back to Cleveland after game three. He ended up in hospital. He went into full cramp mode where he couldn't stand up. They had to team in the ambulance, the hospital, giving him IVs. So he was under the pump, and I think he blew his load those first couple of games. You know, I think he really did just because he was playing.

He was, you know, you're never going to really shut down, Steph. But he did a good job just being there running off screens, being in his body. But that takes a toll, man. And you've got me and Draymond moving screens hitting you. And yeah, I mean, he locked up after three or four games. Once that was done, they didn't really have enough to get over the line. Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in the nation. Catch all of our shows at Fox SportsRadio.com.

And within the IHeard Radio app, search FSR to listen live. When was the last time you seriously considered your dream? Did something never thought you would do. How about live the van life in a totally customized Mercedes-Benz Sprinter van? You could tour the country, whatever you want to dream up. And we're talking about Mercedes-Benz van here. Expect innovative safety features like cross-win assist and blind spot assist. Expect performance and reliability with that MBUX voice command system.

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Their fearless guide is this fascinating world. Find a forest near you and start exploring at discovertheforest.org. Brought to you by the United States Forest Service and the ad council. You know, they left, they kept leaving the Iggy open in the corner, right? That was, he was the guy that, and he made, when he made it, and that's how he became the finals MVP. and so I'm sure there's at least part of you as you're sitting there now like I got a ring it doesn't matter like okay I mean if I'm wide open I can get that shit too

right how do you process the I played last three one is that you got a ring but you didn't in the at least in the finals you didn't get to contribute as much as you want oh like I said it hurts a little bit to an extent where you're in the moment you're like man I was a starting center on a team won 67 games and got some NBA finals but the move work, right? Like, I can't be bitter about it. You know, we were down, I think, to 1 at that point. And a big game 4 in Cleveland and made the adjustment and never looked back.

So I still got into the game in game 4, a little bit in game 5. And, you know, just try to, I guess, play that role as best you can. But it was a frustrating day when you get told because you never want to hear that. And look, to be honest, I wasn't playing fantastic at those first couple of games. And the analytics and the numbers of our death lineup, you know, that small ball five, frame one of the five, you know, the numbers don't lie. So once they, we played that for 30, 35 minutes, you know, and Andre had a hell of a series guiding LeBron.

It all kind of changed. All right. Speaking of LeBron and Andre, you know, was doing an unbelievable job on him. What was your opinion of LeBron at that time? He was, I mean, he was a guy that we had to kind of stop. He had a hell of a series. He put up crazy numbers in the, that series and we knew that, you know, we got to a point where, you know, he's a fantastic

pass from playmaker. We weren't overly concerned with him going for 30, 35, 40, to be honest with you, we were more concerned with him having a stat line like 25, 14 and 10 because other people would then be involved and then late game, it changes the way we blitz things or guard things or double things. When it's just one guy, it makes it a little bit easier to kind of game plan for late game.

Whereas if everyone's feeling good about themselves into a fourth quarter, it changes. And that was an issue we had with Mark Jackson. We had, he was an old school coach where it would be whoever scored last position, we're going back to them until the well runs dry. That was his mentality, right?

Problem with that was, if you were Harrison Barnes or Andreig Woodhalla and you're in the corner spot and you don't touch the ball for 15 straight trips. And then you get to a leg game, let's say Steps got 30, 35, into a fourth quarter

and the team starts getting the ball out of Steph's hands. It goes swing, swing, swing to Harrison Barnes, wide open in the corner. Very important shot to either put us up to or keep us in the mix. And he just touched the ball. Hasn't touched it. That's a harder shot in basketball to make in my opinion.

You go back to how you said, you know, you're wide open, you should make it. In that instance, it's a hard shot. Because you haven't done it during the... Yeah, you haven't felt like you're in the rhythm of the offense. You haven't felt like you've been involved. And it's like, hey, Harrison, hey, Andre, you better make this fucking shot. It's just like, so that's where I think with LeBron in that series.

That's how people defend him a lot. Like, remember a couple years ago when the Pacers, his last year in Cleveland, and the Pacers almost beat him. Like, that's what they did. They were like, hey, man, you're going to beat us? Go ahead. And it almost worked. Like, they didn't have very good team.

But because they made LeBron, one, he gets tired because you get way more tired trying to score every time down. And then two other guys are not nearly as engaged when they're not touching the ball. And it's a philosophy. It's one of the things that I think skews his numbers so much that people don't understand. They look at his numbers. Like, yeah, that's because they wanted him to score a little bit, maybe not as much as he did. But you want him to score because it isolates him.

It freezes out of other dudes and it wears him down. Like it is a philosophy that does work. It does. And like most teams, if you don't have good role players, that are involved throughout a game in a playoff series or a final series, someone's going to manipulate that and try to make, you know, we'll live with, we'll live with, like I said,

LeBron having 40 and making sure that his assist numbers are down, so other guys aren't involved. Then we can make that adjustment late game in a big possession. Okay, so you win a championship. You win 67 games. How much did things change for the team, for the guys, like the personalities now that you're, you take a, All those guys took a different level of startup.

The next year you get back together training camp, how much did stuff change? It changed a fair bit. I think the pressure even went up, to be honest with you, because our expectation now went up. That second year where we won 73, we went into every game with an expectation of winning. And it was, yeah, I think it did the opposite.

You think it, you know, you've got your chip, you can kind of calm. We had a sense of calm within games. games where we'd be down 10 to 15 and we'd never really panic. But if we lost one game, until our next game, it was hell. And we won, you know, we really lost nine. You got those nine games. Think about that, okay?

You lost nine games in an 82 game season. I can't even imagine what. Yeah, and it's, you know, the fact that we couldn't cap it off is probably the most disappointing part because it's kind of forgotten about a little bit. But we had a phenomenal year. And look, we had probably 10 games that regular season. We shouldn't have won when you looked at a three-quarter time score or a half-time score. We were down like 10, 15 points.

And then, you know, sometimes we put in most space and he'd score 10 straight for us. You know, we just had so many different things we could go to. And, yeah, it was just a fun process. But it was also, I felt like the pressure was up even more because we kept ourselves so accountable where, you know, after a loss, it'd be to the extent of man boves why don't you box out that play or what fuck or Steph you're wide open like you should have hit that or

you know why do you make the right play why don't you rotate on defense like we'd be overthinking that shit because we were so competitive wanting to win that you'd almost want that next game to hurry up and come because it was like those three days between we're not fun at all um

okay so you get to the NBA finals but now it's the Cavs again and they're kind of reloaded Now, Kyrie's healthy, so it's a little bit different. What was this one like as opposed to the previous one? Well, at a whole, it was just a massive swing. It just shows you that a seven-game series, you know, anything can happen. We felt like we had probably had it one, which, you know, we blew them out, basically,

three out of the first four games. It wasn't, I mean, the first two games at home weren't even close. They got us, was it game three, they got us. And then we come back for game five, up three. three one and we thought you know we thought we were in a great position obviously even looking at the numbers historically we've you know i'm saying that most teams that are three one win um we we we kind of change the trajectory of that of that but yeah just it just all turned i mean game game five i still remember it lebron gets straymond suspended essentially that's called spade and um yeah i mean

that that hurt us did you get hurt in five or did you get hurt in six five yeah so So, yeah, look, our rotation was messed up already with Draymond out because we couldn't go small ball as much. It ended up being Andre would have to play the five. His back was really screwed up that series. He was fighting back spasms the whole series. A lot of people don't know. He was probably at 50, 60 percent health. And then, yeah, I felt like I was having a really good series that one.

You know, I kind of came with a mentality of like, I'm not getting bench again. Like, fuck that. This final series. and my numbers weren't off the page, but I had some O-boards, a big O-boards, but it was more of my paint presence. I felt like I'd block LeBron a few times in game one and two,

and I felt like he was searching for me at times when he was turned in the corner. He was looking for where I was at, which is what I want, right? Because I'd either block his shot, I'd be there early, try to take a charge, or I just found the shit out of him.

It was one of the three, right? So once I kind of got out of that lineup, and then put a lot of pressure on best of us to play more, minutes and it felt like LeBron just started getting into the paint at ease, especially, you know, game six and seven. And yeah, I felt like, look, I wouldn't have, you know, change a series in game six or seven completely, but I think just having that presence out there for 20 minutes definitely would have helped. But the Dremont thing just threw our, just threw our lineup out and then, you know, you come back to game six. Now lineups change again, even though Dremont's back,

I'm out, you know, the momentum shifted. And you got to give Cleveland credit. because they stole it. They definitely stole that series, and you give them credit because, you know, we tried, it was a late game, Corey hit a big shot, but there were a lot of things

that kind of went against this, and we just couldn't, we couldn't bounce back from that. What's the feeling like, the helpless feeling like? Like the year before, you were healthy, they just chose to go a different way

line-up-wise, right? But now you're not healthy. So you can't physically be out there. What's, and you were playing, what's that feeling like, motion? That was horrible,

just because it was the end, it was the championship year, And it was just more from the point of like, from an individual point of view, I was having a series. Like I was having, I was out blocking two or three shots a game and rebounded well. And, you know, I just felt like I was playing, playing well. You know, it all came together for me. But then only that, not only that, it was an injury that I couldn't take an injection for. You know, if it was something I could shoot up with cortisone or a painkiller and keep playing.

It was like my knee was screwed. Like I was out six weeks, barely made the Olympics. which was three or four months later. And that was more of frustrating thing. There was nothing I could do. You know, and just had to kind of be a cheerleader from the locker room, essentially. But that was your last game as the warrior too, right?

Yeah. Oh, no. Came back. But, yeah, in that era until KD came, yeah, obviously. And then came back for that little retirement ceremony a couple of seasons ago. Okay, so that season's done. You're injured. and the free agency thing starts.

And they go and get KD. My personal opinion of it was because, because as you pointed out, like Harrison Barnes, remember how many open shots he had, open looks he had that series, he didn't make them. And so the idea was like, as much as you guys were ahead of the league with playing small, people were starting to catch up.

I think you guys did need KD. I don't know if KD was the right fit, but I do feel like you needed him. But what did you think of the KD move? when it happened and you're sitting there, it pops up on your phone, what you think? I kind of knew it was in the works for a long time. I mean, I had heard from some people that that was being discussed during the season

before the report of Draymond stuff. You know, I think it was, I heard around New Year's. There was a potential meeting, I think, in that season, around New Year's Day, somewhere around there. So I think it was discussed, heard rumblings, But look, if I'm the GM, I make that move all day. Like, I'm not piss at the warrior. It's like, you know, I had some salary.

Holes on my last year of the deal was $12, $13 million. So then I was the odd man, out, I had to move. And you bring in KD, you get that opportunity, you do it all day. And it is what it is. It got them two more championships. Yeah. Okay, then for you. So now you go back to the Olympics and you're kind of hobbled.

Was it still as much fun the second time? It was. It was my second time. That was my third Olympics. But yeah. You played in the Australia one? No, I played in Athens, 2004, Beijing, 08. I was hurt 2012 and then 16 was Rio.

But yeah, I just made it, to be honest. I wasn't anywhere near 100%. I basically had a really bad bone bruise where I had a shitload of swelling in my knee. But what I didn't know is what they missed on the scans was I tore my fib head. I tore a ligament and the fib head. It's kind of that pointy part of the outside of your knee,

that bulge is a ligament that runs down the side there. So I tore that and that's what was giving me some issues and I came back just without a whole body of work and played real well. Early on in the Olympics,

playing really well. I almost had a few triple doubles was playing really good basketball and then I just like hit a wall like four or five games in individually. like because I just had no fitness base at all. I wasn't working out really because my knee playing on all emotion

and it caught up to me late tournament. And we had a good run. But yeah, we end up finishing fourth. Dubious call against Spain in the bronze medal game on Patty Mills. Didn't get a bronze medal. But I mean, I enjoyed the experience. It was disappointing not to get a medal. But, you know, probably came back a little bit sooner than I shoot her from the injury.

But that's kind of what you do, right? Yeah. The next couple years were a mishmosh, right? Like a bunch of different teams and pretty good franchise, right? Dallas and Cleveland and the Lakers and then back with the Warriors for that short stint. But, you know, as a guy who, you know, you're a starter, an NBA championship team, and now your body's breaking down. What's going on in your mind as you're going team to team

and you're trying to just kind of keep your body together? Yeah, I mean, that was it. I mean, my body probably the last three or four years, I probably should have retired. But it's hard to know that you can, what you could do, your body just won't allow you to do on a daily basis. I'd show flashes. I'd have a great day where I'm feeling good and everything comes together. But it's just hard. And it was just the amount of time I had to put in just to get ready for a training session really got to me towards end of my career.

It was getting to an 11 a.m. session at 9 a.m. and, you know, doing physio and getting some treatment and then hot packs and then hot tubs and then stretching and then all this bullshit you've got to do and you see these young fellas and they just jump out of their car, stretch for three minutes and they're on the court, you know, that's where it becomes much more of a grind.

So, yeah, like basically after the Warriors, still found I ride in Dallas, then Cleveland broke my leg in Cleveland, and then that's why I decided, you know, come back, came back to the Lakers, and then after that decided I'm just going to play in Australia for a couple of seasons. It's one or two games a week

and didn't expect to go back to the NBA. I kind of shut that door and didn't really bother me. I'd got more than I wanted out of the NBA and wanted to spend more time with the kids and all that kind of stuff and then the Warriors thing came up and to be honest,

it was the only team I'd consider going back to that point like a few other teams had called. I wouldn't have considered it. Just Golden State just made so much sense because there was a lot of good friends I had on that team still, a lot of good people that I liked. So it all came together and I took up the opportunity. and there's some

Go ahead, I'm sorry. Yeah, they've got the opportunity as well right after this final season and they'd be able to before I retired at a call from three or four teams trying to bring me over again to kind of fill in for the rest of that, you know, that season

and then the coronavirus hit and they're all kind of dried up. But that was something else potentially looking at to get to the Olympics, but then once the Olympics got postponed, that's when I kind of made my decision to retire. So you're done, done? Like, they call you for the stretch run here?

No, like Lakers need a rent protector, right? No. It looks like he's shot. They like, come on, man. No, man, I'm done. Like, I'm content. 14 years in the NBA, two in the NBL, 16 years pro. The body just said no.

Like, it's just been nice to wake up and not be sore, be able to play with my kids, be able to go for a walk in the park and push them on the swing, whereas. When I was playing towards the end, the last three or four years, like it was literally from the gym home to lying on my back, stretching the lounge room for four hours or rolling you out on a phone roll or just constantly sore and hurting. And it affects your mood at times.

It affects your mental. So just getting away from that and being able to kind of just spend more time at home with the kids. It's been good. The NBL, when you come back to that. Because there's a lot of guys, it's like the problem with the big screen TV. like once you have a big big old 60-72-inch TV and then somebody puts it on a 32-inch like used to grow up in a 32-inch you look at you look down on what was it like for you to go from the very very peak of professional basketball to playing back in your home country

well I enjoyed it I knew it would be a step down as far as you know organization and money and somewhat I mean I have battles with the league to this day some of the organizational stuff isn't is it a money issue it's just an organizational issue and their battles I'm still having to this day and I'm still having to this day and I'm still having to this day and I'm still having to this day. but I enjoyed it. You know, it was going back to cities and places that I'd kind of played when I was a young fellow in Australia. Somewhat a retirement tour in a way, but I played a high level, especially my first year, one MVP in the league, played really well. The team that I joined was bottom two, bottom three for like three or four straight years, and then we finally made the top four, made the semifinals. So did okay, didn't win a championship, which is disappointing.

But I enjoyed the process, and it was just good to be around Australian fans who were being part of different parts of my upbringing. You know, you might go to a different city, play that team and then catch up with someone or see someone that you haven't seen for 15, 20 years. So I enjoyed all that, and I wouldn't change kind of the path that I'd take it. And like I said, it kept me at home more.

It kept me at home. I know I'm going to be home Monday to Friday in the NBL generally. And it just gave me a whole lot more time with two young kids. The Australian mentality, I feel like, is the part that we're all envious of, right? It's just there's something about the no worries mate. Like there's just something about it. And I know you still maintained it a lot when you're in the NBA,

but you're also, as you point out, like even with Delhi, like you're a hardcore competitor, right? Like your friends become your enemy. What was it like to adjust in your mentality back to the Australian? Of course, everybody kind of thinks you thought growing up. Or did it, has it changed? And it's not the same as it was when you grew up. Like that mentality from living in the state,

for so long and then moving back full-time to Australia. It's definitely fair. There was a lot of young kids in this league that were trying to kick my ass and I was that old man that was not moving too well some games and I have to give them a hard fail every now and then to let them know. But yeah, there's definitely a valid point to that.

The league is, it's a competitive league and we have a lot of good imports coming over now. A lot of fringe NBA, former NBA players, which never used to get five, six years ago. And the Australian contingent's always going to battle. That's a thing, you know, with this league that no matter where the talent level is at, some guys might not be as talented. They're going to hit you.

They're going to wrestle with you. They're going to throw you to the ground. And that was exactly the experience I had. You know, and I think times we even got it, I probably got it harder than most guys would just because a lot of young players trying to make a name for themselves in this league by going at a guy that played in the NBA and won a championship and had a pretty good career. What did you think of when Lamello ball came? What did you think of Lamello?

I didn't think he'd be this good. I'm not going to lie. You know, I follow my sword on that one. I didn't think he'd be this good this early. I knew you could see he has a real high basketball IQ and he's very, very good at the point guard position, how to pick and rolls. He always made the right decision,

whether to shoot, whether it hit the corner three, whether it hit the roller, whether to throw a lob. You could see that. His three ball over here wasn't great. You know, he shot a lot of those long logo threes and a lot of bad ones in transition and you just thought like his three just didn't look good.

He didn't shoot at a high clip. So I thought it's going to take him a couple of years to get that three ball right, and then he'll start to really excel. But, man, he's been fantastic. And he's fun to watch. You know, he plays very, very openly. And, yeah, I'd be lying if I had that I thought he'd have this impact from day one in the NBA. Of that group of the Warriors, who is the best teammate?

As far as on court or off court? You pick. Either? Oh, man. I mean, I got along really well with Harrison Barnes. Like we, I think I liked about Harrison. We were really good friends from Day Dot. He's kind of got a dry, sarcastic sense of humor, much like myself.

So we got along straight away because of that. The thing I really like about Harrison is we discussed a lot of things that went on basketball, whether there were social issues, political issues, things in Australia, things in America, things from his own town. And the thing I liked about him, we disagreed in a lot of things. but it didn't change our friendship, it didn't change our camaraderie. And we didn't take it personally.

I had different views on different things and said it E. And we would get in-depth discussions about them that would be actually a great podcast or a great thing to interview sometimes. But it was the way society should be those conversations. And I think we've lost that a little bit. Now if people disagree, whether it's about an NBA player, NBA team, politics, social issues, straightaway becomes toxic,

whereas the beauty of Harris and our relationship was we could talk about anything and not offend each other, which was awesome. Yeah, that's amazing. How do, by the way, how does, how do Australians, at least in your area, how do they view everything we're going through?

Not just COVID, political, social issues. Like, what is it like to be somebody who, All right, you spend a bunch of time there. You know what it's like, right? Like, how did they view us? It's hard. All we get is what's on CNN or Fox News, right? So it's like, you can't really explain.

There's still, you know, there's problems everywhere in the world. We usually get whatever you guys are going through. We get five years later. So I'm just waiting. I'm just waiting over here. We really follow what's going on in America like that. But, I mean, it's just a strange time. Like I've never seen, you know, even in Australia, like just the sense of division in society today, you know, it's not good. It's not healthy.

Like I said, people can't disagree on things without it being toxic and start throwing labels on. Why do you think that is? Because my experience is the same experience you have. Like, you know, I played in locker rooms where I was the only white dude or one of the only white dudes. I never had any issue. And, you know, I'm almost always been the only, except when I played in Israel, there's never any Jewish guys on the team, right? So you're already disagreeing on religion, on race, whatever, politics. But why do you think it's become so divisive? I don't know.

I think the media doesn't help it. I think there's a lot of, you know, whether you're one side, you know, you just look at the CNN and Fox News equivalent, right? They're both the, somewhat the extremes on both sides. People that watch CNN are like, we're not the extremes, they're the extremes. People who watch Fox News are like, we're not the extremes there. You're just like, you're not going to get anywhere.

It's just going to be constant division. We do it on sports, so too, now, right? We put one guy on one side and debate the topics. And there's no, the world is gray. It's not black, like the world is gray. Yeah, but sports is a little bit different. Once it becomes people that, you know, you can throw shit at sports stars because you don't really know them or it doesn't really affect you that much.

But once it starts talking about religion, race, color, creed, all that kind of stuff. social issues or even tax issues, whatever it is, right? That's when it becomes toxic. And it's like, my whole thing is like just having adult discussions where you're not going to agree with everyone and kind of, you know, come out with the best solution or, you know, you might have a conversation with someone that you think I'm not going to agree with one thing they say.

And then you're like, oh, actually, there was one thing that there was a valid point. But, you know, it seems like society based on team politics, which I absolutely can't stand. People that support politicians or political parties like a sporting team are absolute morons. And that they're a big part of the problem, whether it's left, right, middle, whatever, I don't care.

If you can't look at an issue without your political lenses on on what you believe with that issue, I believe this issue is wrong because. But if you're like, oh, it's right because my party said it was right, you're an idiot. And that's where we are.

That's why it's so toxic. It's just like, I just don't see no end to it. It's almost like you're better off just turning off, you know, the news because, you know, you can't, there's no, even just reporting, like, let's say there's a train accident somewhere hypothetically in the world. It'll be spun into, well, in that state, this political party runs the train, so it's their fault. It's like, what? You know, where are we going? And that's why I just kind of, I really push back against it. I'm against most sides of politics, to be honest with you.

And I get a lot of shit for it, but I'm okay with it. Shack or Dunkett? Who is harder to guard? I got Shaq towards the end of his career, so he was probably like I was towards the end of mine, hurting, and probably... Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque.

Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win.

I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment,

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so I saw the bad end of that but Duncan was just yeah he was just so clinical man he had so much shit to him and yeah you just knew once he caught on that block and turned and faced you were like oh shit what's he gonna hit me with you know so

I battled him pretty well at times I felt like I matched up pretty well against him but yeah he was just so fundamental and so good and he could have a bad 36 minutes and then have a four minute stretch where he turns a basketball game so both within their own ride are really, really good. But I didn't, you know, Orlando Shack and Lakers Shack.

I can only imagine trying to guard him weighing 250 pounds. Yeah, he was so athletic too, right? He was big, but so crazy athletic when he was younger. And he knows how to play. People take away like, all right, he was big and strong and bullied people. But he could pass, man. And he could read the game. Like, he had a high basketball IQ where he, you know,

especially in the Lakers out of that triangle, you watch a lot of their sets. He made some fantastic passes out of the triangle. So he wasn't your prototypical, big, strong bully. He had a bit of shit to him, too. Who's like the guy who's the toughest cover for you that we wouldn't, give me a guy who gave you fits, but we wouldn't list as one of the all-time grades.

Like, man, I could not. That was a guy I really struggled. I think he's close to an all-time great, but yeah, me for me, for me, was, dude, like, he's a frustration and shit out of me because he was 7-6. he had the shooting touch of a guard and there were games when i was in milwaukee where i'd guard him textbook perfectly push him off the block step off you know he's trying to back me down he doesn't move me and then he turns shoots a fade away over a contested hand mind you my hand he's probably

only to his like chin because he's so big and just nets it and you're like man what am i supposed to do here like you look at a coach like send a double team god damn like i did everything i could so he was a guy that I really struggled with just because, you know, I generally got really good at guarding big strong power guys that would try to get close to the rim because I could take a charge. I'd mess with them. I'd hit him really hard. And then they'd try to hit me back.

I'd take a charge and play that mental game. But yeah, I was really well balanced and just had an unbelievable shooting touch. Now, was there, like, did Brad Miller, because he was like a bad version of you, right? Where he'd foul the crap out of people and play that mental game. How did you play against guys who, like, were poor men's versions of what you? you did defensively.

I annoyed the shit out of me. Just like I annoyed the stars. Like you had guys like a Reggie Evans or someone like that. Like I always mentioned him because he's a junkyard dog. Had no role other than just like pissing off whoever he was guarding, grabbing a rebound, setting screens, holding, grabbing. I mean, I think he's the guy that grabbed Chris Kamen's nuts back in the day. Yes.

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Visit nhtsa.gov slash the right seat. Brought to you by Nita and the Ad Council. Look through your children's eyes to see the true magic of a forest. It's a storybook world for them. You look and see a tree. They see the wrinkled face of a wizard with arms outstretched to the sky. They see treasure and pebbles. They see a windy path that could lead to adventure,

and they see you. Their fearless guide is this fascinating world. Find a forest near you and start exploring at discovertheforest.org, brought to you by the United States Forest Service and the ad council. Okay. What's it feel like to foul somebody really hard? Like, dude comes down a lane and you just put him on the deck. What is that, that feels like it's got to be a badass.

You know, and you know guys are, always pop up and do it's get in your face and say something you got to not flinch right what's that feeling like nothing nothing first of all in the aBA people usually get up and try to fight you once their teammates have got next to them they can hold them back and then you know nothing's going to happen like it's just one like one out of a thousand might end up where a guy like runs around to the other team's locker and actually tries to do something but even that now is orchestrated where like you're not getting through the 15 security guards but yeah i mean i would always I wouldn't just do it just to do it.

I'd do it. If a guy was talking shit or, you know, trying to, trying to be smart with me, I wouldn't really say a whole lot. I'd talk back, but then I'd just make a mental note of it. Like, if they've come down the lane and try and dunk on me or go out for a lay-up, I'm just going to take a free one. Or if we were playing like shit and needed something to roll us up, where we would start a little fight.

Like, Draman and I were notorious for it. We would just lay someone out. And then it would roll us up. They'd get rolled up, shit-talking, this, that. and then it felt like, you know, it will carry on to the rest of the team and we'd fire up and win that game. Better shooter of Clay or Steph? Oh, man. I think Clay, catch and shoot, Clay, Steph off the dribble.

That's the thing about Steph is that he goes left, he goes right, and he catches shoots, right? Like, most guys are supposed to, well, he only does one thing, but no, no, no, he just, there's not. And then the range with Clay can get his, Clay can get his catch and shoot off on anyone, though. that's something with Clay. Like, I've seen guys close him out chest to chest, perfect stick stands, and he just holds that ball up above his head and just wax it in where Steph kind of needs

a bit more space than separation. But, I mean, look, on Monday, you'd say Steph on Tuesday, you'd say Clay, but I think if I had to really pick, I'd say Clay for your feet set catch and shoot, and step off the dribble was just unbelievable. Yeah, I mean, there's got to be some times when you're sitting out there, like, I cannot believe I'm watching the shit,

like what these guys are doing. Oh, man. And that was like, you go back to my moving screens, I was like, I knew if I could just get an i odor of a hit on someone just to make them change their route by like 10 degrees, I knew Steph would not shut down. Because I was just like, I just need to give him that split millisecond of space.

And that's why I would just, that's all I would bank on. Like even if it was sticking my butt out late just to make them take that extra a little bit of a route that's got, it's cash for Steph. So that was. But it's an art. It is an art that. that you kind of perfected, right, to the ability to move just enough where it's not so blatant they have to call it, right?

It's so violent that it, you know, dislodge it just enough to where you clip a guy. And, and again, it's kind of the same thing. Once you clip a guy once, they're not running through your screen. They're going around you. They're changing their angle. Like, that's an art. It is. And I feel like I taught Drame on that pretty well.

He's doing a fantastic job of it. But the thing I used to look for was, like, the guy guarding whoever I'm screening, if he put his hands on me to get around the screen, this is where I put a ref in a bind. Technically, that's a foul, right? So you can't touch a screen. You can't grab my hips or whatever. So as soon as I felt them contact,

no, no, no, I would just stand up and walk them back. So I'll be moving. He's holding my hips. So a lot of times a ref would be like, you're holding him. So the ones that I couldn't really get away with were, like, you're like, you Carl Lowrys or someone like that, who would just bulldogs and would just try to, a chase and wouldn't hit him.

And you throw a hip, you give that call all day. But the one that will put the rest in a mind was that one. And I would walk guys sometimes like a good three feet and be like, he's holding me, and then Stemper just have a perfect route to get an open shot. And the other thing is if you're moving almost every other play, they'll only get to call two or three of them in the games. You'll get away with the other seven or eight out of two. They can't call it.

They can't call everyone. Exactly right. The greatest Australian basketball player ever is who. It's going to be Ben Simmons. Probably is already. You know, he's an only Australian to make the All-Star team. So he's already there, in my opinion. I think up there as well, you'd have myself,

you'd have Luke Longley, Patty Mills, and Joe Ingle has been a really good year this year. So they're probably the five right now and your bench. You'd have Aaron Baines and Daly would be on the bench somewhere. It is interesting, like the Joe's deal, Joe Ingalls,

I mean, you're talking about a guy who's had, like, the clippers cut him. Like, literally, like, just released him. That was what they did in a three-man, too. They did three-men desperately. They ended up getting, who did they get? They ended up with Jeff Green when he, Matt Bowie. Hold on. They did Jared Dudley first.

Yeah. And then they did Luke Rich. Did they do Luke in Bamute? Mar-Butea was there, yeah, 14-minute mine. But, yeah, they had their, I mean, if there's anyone that would have in well, imagine, imagine, you got Chris Paul, JJ Redick, Blake Griffin, DeAndre Jordan, Joe Ingle's at that three. Like, you're probably going to a championship or close to. Like, that was the guy they needed, you know, 40, 45% from three. You can actually take him,

put Chris off the ball, get him a rest and put the ball in Joe's hands around, pick and roll with DeAndre. Like the Joe Ingalls, Rudy Gobert's, really effective pick and roll. Like, they had their guy, but it was that stigma of he, wasn't in the league and they're just to want him. What's next for you? Right now, just chilling out. Just waiting for the world to somewhat get back to normal like most people. So it's kind of hard to pick one thing to do.

Figuring out where I'm going to be in the long terms, the priority right now. Kids start school next year, so we're figuring that out. Start out the podcast. So everyone listening at Rogue Bogues, Rogue Borgs podcast. We kind of do a bunch of cool shit and start getting some guests on as well, much like yourself. but yeah I'll get involved in basketball in some capacity down the line. I won't be NBA. I doubt it'll be professional just because of the travel right now of kids in school,

but I'll be involved in the game and just enjoy not having to do something every day. Just can kind of do what I want at the moment. How do you, if one of your kids wants to play basketball, how are you going to hit them? I can do whatever they want. I'm not one of those guys. I love them to play basketball. I think it probably, bring out a bit of emotion if they wanted to play and be serious about it.

But I'm not going to be one of those parents. Like, you have to do this or you have to do that. Do whatever you enjoy, you know, like tennis, golf. You're playing some sort of sport. Whether you want to be a sports person or not, you're going to play sport because it's going to teach you about a lot of different things in life, especially winning and losing, which I guess is controversial to say these days. You can't have kids losing these days because it's just boggues my mind with parents.

It does, right? Like you learn, you know, you're. You have to learn. I mean, so I coach, I have like 11s through 14s, whatever. And we, you know, we lose games or guys do. My son's 11. He plays some 12s and some 13s, whatever. He's a little guy.

But, you know, we had a tournament where we're up three late and we're holding for a team to foul. Like, hold or get a layup or get foul. And he takes corner three, he makes it, you know, trotting back down the course. We get done with the game. Like, what are you doing? like what you mean like bro we're up three time and score he's like should I not have shot that I was like no so he's like I got you I got you no problem next game next game we're up four same situation and he catches it open

it's like 11 seconds to go in the game so we're pretty set whatever he shoots it and I was like what are you doing he's like two possession game we're up four it's like my my losing my mind do we not just have discussion but you know and then they have to like look you have to experience at the free throw line, missing free throws to lose a game. Like, that's a good, that's a healthy thing. You can't just win every game in life. It doesn't teach you it.

No doubt. Yeah, there's values in, there's values to learn from winning, winning, winning in the right way and being, you know, a good winner. And then the same with losing, right? Like, and that's what I think, you know, these helicopter parents and just people in general, you know, there's a, I don't know how it is over there where you are, but there's a lot of junior sports here now that are trying not to keep score and all that bullshit.

Like, kids, you know, Number one, kids know the, they know the score. They all in the score. Like, so you can not put on the scoreboard, it's not changing shit. But to try and, like, bubble your kids, but like, oh, we don't want kids going home thinking they lost the game. Well, they did lose the game. Like, and the only way they're going to learn how to get better is by losing because

in that next week before the next game, they better put some work in, right? It's common sense, simple logic. But, you know, we're at a point now where, you know, that's frowned upon. Whereas with my kids, it's like, you know, my son cries, like, you lose this stuff. and it's four years old, and whether it's against me or even the younger brother, you'll lose and cry.

It's like, well, bad luck. What are you crying about? Like, try harder next time and, you know, put some work in during the week and you'll get better. And that's deemed harsh in 2021, I guess. I didn't ask you about this, okay?

But part of the loss of the calves was on the back of coming back from 3-1 down to beat the thunder. Yeah. So let's let's, let's dial that back first. second, okay? When you guys are down three games to one, was there any panic? Of course, there was some panic. They were balling. You know, O'KC were born. They had KD.

Russ was playing really well. They were playing Robeson, was having a good series defensively. So we were like, shit, like we need to figure something out real quick. And that series was basically over until Clay just went bananas, you know, and brought us back in that game. I still remember we were the behind our bench. to Oklahoma City fans. I don't know how long it was left when we're down five or six, 90 seconds maybe.

I came down and started like abusing it. Like see you guys later. Enjoy your flight home. All that bullshit. And then you turn around once Clay knocked those shots and the whole stand was empty.

But and that wasn't even to steal the series. That was just to get us back in the series. So they knew after that. They'd miss their chance. But yeah, you could say that that bit us in the ass

coming back to the finals. it felt like to me what you guys did was you put you and draymond and like you didn't guard it was just you're basically two guys were always you've always put two on the ball with kd i pressure up on kd and put two on the ball it's almost like a two-man so is that what was happening somewhat we just we just wanted to make um especially if adams or one of their bigs was in a picker roll We wanted to get into KD early, even Westbrook at times, to make them throw it to that big earlier. So then that big would then have to make a play. So that big was catching it above the free throw line and then had to like make a couple of dribbles to get to the rim or make the right pass.

We'd rather that that happen than anything else that were trying to do. So if we had that blitz late or kind of in a drops, where you've got Adams rolling and he's closer to the bucket. and about to catch it, that's a dangerous spot because you can one, two, and just dunk on you. So we made that adjustment through the series. It helped us. But at the end of the day, you know, our star players made shots

to get us back in our series. It wasn't anything that we changed specifically defensively. I mean, Clay Game 6 was insane. That's what I mean. It was, yeah, it was just, that was a crazy, you know, Clay's notorious for having those six, seven minute burst.

And that one was, that was ridiculous. Like, he was making some stuff he was making, you were just like, man, even Steph. If Steph shocked at some of those shots you're making, like, you know, you're making some crazy stuff. Okay, so now years later, which is a more prominent memory? Obviously, once the finals, but coming from 3-1 down or losing up 3-1? I don't think about the Hoclova series as much, anywhere near as much as the final series.

The finals are finals. Like, you had a chance to go back-to-back, get a second ring, you know, really solidify that 73 and 9, we didn't do it. I mean, it hurts, to this day, it still hurts. It will hurt forever. but I'm thankful that I'm one of the few players that managed to get a championship reading the first place. Okay, last thing, I promise the last thing.

And you played for, you know, the Warriors won championship, play a little bit for the Lakers, right? You've been everywhere, number one overall pick. You represent your country in the Olympics. Like, you've done so many different things. Now you're back home, you retired, you got white, family kids, and you grew up in a very normal, lower middle-income suburb. Your dad was a mechanic, right?

And now, I guess there's a multiple question. When you go to the ATM, do you ever check the balance? Not at the ATM, no, I check my balance, you know, almost daily. You do? Well, I manage all my own investments. So I don't check it to check it. I'm paying bills and, you know, got a bunch of different things I'm doing business-wise, you know, in startup space and tech space, real estate, blah, blah, blah, blah.

So I know where all my shits at all times So if there's a penny missing, I'm coming after someone. Are you a Bitcoin guy? I have some Bitcoin, yeah. Yep, I have some Bitcoin. I bought some many, many years ago. Not when it was at, you know, I bought it at a probably at its high about two or three years ago.

And then I have a friend who's actually involved in the NBA with the Dallas Mavericks, Haral Boss. and he's big on Bitcoin's he told me to buy some more buy some more trust me buy some more that was that was probably three or four months ago now so I've done pretty well on that as well but I have a little bit yet and I like I've read up a little bit on it

Daly's actually huge into it now so he did a big thesis paper on it but it is looking like the way the world is going it makes total sense if you understand it are you a Tesla guy your Tesla's guy I have Tesla, I had Tesla stock many, many years ago. Yes, I still do.

I have some friends that are friends with Elon, and they heavily recommended that I buy some Tesla stock back then, so I did pretty well with that as well. So what's the one that you knew? This one's going to hit, and it was a stinker. I haven't had any huge stinkers. It's a company in Australia called Telstra, which is our, like a telecommunications company,

basically the number one company here for phone line, internet, all that kind of shit. And I bought them years ago. And they've just been absolutely horrible since I bought them. So that's a bad one. Nothing really bad. I mean, I've invested in a few startups that have gone belly up,

smaller amounts, but coffee company out of SF kind of... Out of Melbourne. You went all in the coffee. You had one sip. You made a mistake. Yeah, what made a mistake. But it was interesting.

It was like an automated coffee machine thing. I won't boil you with the details, but it made sense. It just, they couldn't get any traction in the market, couldn't get any stores to take their machines, and then bye-bye, they're gone. So I've definitely had some losses, but I'd like to think my portfolio's far net positive than it is negative. No question. And I bring it up because this was the last question.

Money is... Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast, Superhuman, documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds.

I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. Yep, that's me. Clever Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skit.

the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment. And the next, we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast.

It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to The Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.

And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye had... They said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do a little kill?

Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam Jett. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack.

I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so you all know. I mean, at this point, this is the second episode where we've discussed, correct. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you for finishing that sentence. Yes. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really?

Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapy. Careers, Kear Games. And in recognition of Mental Health Awareness Month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations

with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it, and we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch.

Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth? Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person.

Join me, Kear Gaines, is we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, learn the hard way. Open your free, I Heart Radio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. Not a problem. And you're not a guy who lives. you're not rolling 15 cars deep or whatever. Well, I'm actually. You are?

Or collector cars. So they go up. Okay. Okay. Okay. Then it takes us up. Your favorite collector car is what? The car that you have.

Well, most of my stuff's Australian muscle cars, so you wouldn't be familiar with them. But my American would be, I have a 1969 Ford Boss 429. So all original. You know, they're a big-time collector car for people to know. of their cars. Okay, so, but like, if you want to buy something, you walk down the street, you look in the window, like, I want to buy it. What's that feeling like in terms of, I just say, money's not everything and you're not

somebody who lives to show off your money, right? Yeah. What is that like to never really worry about money? Oh, it's, you know, an unbelievable thing to have. Like, it's, you're going to be very thankful for it. I didn't think I'd ever be in this position as a young fellow. I remember looking through like toy catalogs as a kid, you know, when I was five, six, seven, eight years old and I'd circle, okay, you can pick one toy on each page in my hypothetical world that you can have, you know, and to be now that opportunity to not only for myself and for the kids, to not have any worries about a mortgage payment or we can't go on a holiday this year because we don't have the funds. Like a lot of people through coronavirus doing tough.

but one thing I've learned along the way the material things are great but that's not really the value you get from your money it's experiences I think that's what I'm starting to learn like it's like being able to go to different things I went to the aquarium here in Melbourne yesterday with the kids and just being able to do those experiences whilst other people are working

that's what the value in having money is being able to visit places in the world that you might you know most people don't get a chance to see or put together a nice birthday party for your children or whatever it is, right? I think those things are more important than a nice watch or a nice car. And you kind of learn that

towards the end of your journey in life. Usually most people that have money will tell you that when they're 50-60. But I'm in a unique situation where I'm retired that as quote-unquote and can understand that at an early age. How do you get you?

And I don't know if you can, but like you were hungry and you wanted to kick everybody's ass when you were coming up. And part of it was People told you no. People told you weren't good enough. So now your kids, through no fault of their own,

they're kind of going to have, maybe not everything, but to have everything they need. How do you, this is a question, a lot of people who have any sort of affluence who accomplish anything. How do you have that hunger? How do you establish the hunger for your child when you were coming out? Yeah, it's a hard one because they're going to be

the rich kid on the team, right? So you have to, I think it starts, at home with the parents. Like you've got to make them work for stuff. Like we make them put their toys away. I stop my wife. I hate when my wife cleans up after my kids. I hate it.

Now, keep in mind they're two and four, but I've got the two and a half year old knowing that you make a mess with the toys, you tip all those Legos out, you're putting all the shit back. How you found it. Like, you know, and whether it's done immediately after or before bed. Like, it's going to get done.

You're not going, and a lot of times it's like before bed, I'll make them go back in the toy room and clean all that shit up. because I think you just need to cherish what you've got, work for you got, but no, like, it's not. We're not just going to clean up after you, and that's a small thing to kind of mix in with what we're talking about, but that's where it starts. You know, if you start doing everything for them,

they'll get to the sporting level and like, hey, can you make the basket for me? Hey, can you win the game for me? Like, no, you're going to do this shit, you know, and I think it starts at home. And unfortunately, you know, I think the argument of a mom and a dad relationship and why I think it's so important, you know, is, I'm kind of harder on the kids with that stuff, and then mum's really good with the nurturing side.

And that's, that's being our quality, right? It's like, email is really good at nurturing and probably overdoing that to an extent, whereas males are more, you know, the man in the house is more like, you know, the kid could break his arm. You're like, get up, you'll be right, you know, like, we're too far that way. That's why, you know, I think a male, you know, mom and dad, in a child's life, you have that, you're already kind of ahead of the curve. And that's what I kind of really instill in the kids is making sure, like, there's no

free rides around here. Like, you do something bad and I'm going to tell you about it. Do you something good I'm going to tell you about it. But you're going to carry your own weight around the house, like, as soon as you can, essentially. Adoption of teens from foster care is a topic not enough people know about, and we're here to change that. I'm April Dinwiddie host of the new podcast, Navigating Adoption, presented by Adopt U.S.

Kids. This episode brings you compelling real-life adoption stories told by the families that live them with commentary from experts. Visit adoptuskids.org slash podcast or subscribe to navigating adoption presented by Adopt U.S. Kids. Brought to you by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services Administration for Children and Families and the Ad Council. What grows in the forest? Trees? Sure. Know what else grows in the forest? Our imagination, our sense of wonder. and our family bonds grow too because when we disconnect from this and connect with this

we reconnect with each other the forest is closer than you think find a forest near you and start exploring at Discovertheforest.org brought to you by the United States Forest Service and the Ad Council What grows in the forest? Trees? Sure.

Know what else grows in the forest? Our imagination, our sense of wonder and our family bonds grow too because when we disconnect from this and connect with this we reconnect with each other. The forest is closer than you think. Find a forest near you and start exploring

at Discovertheforest.org brought to you by the United States Forest Service and the Ad Council. Man, I can't tell you how how thankful I am for your time. Last thing you want to be doing is talking to me, but we've been trying to do this for a while and I'm always getting the pope, mate.

You're harder to get home. No, it was like you give me a time. Like, I'm coaching basketball that day, but like, you're actually, you're out ahead of it. Like, I'm a, I'm going to fly by to see my pants, but we got it done. And if you ever need me on your pot, we don't want to do it again. You let me know. And, but more than anything, man, thanks for your time and your knowledge and your honesty. I truly appreciate.

No worries. Anytime, man. Thanks. Okay. Now you've heard his story, where he is as of now. And so many honest, interesting thoughts from a dude who's lived an incredible life. And now, as part two to try and figure it out, I encourage you to download his podcast because he tells his stories and even more intricate detail.

What a great dude, right? Like, isn't that the guy you want to have, like, the fact that he drinks coffee and then we had a coffee discussion, it's great. I love to have a cup of coffee with him sometime. Maybe I'll do that. Fly to Melbourne and have a cup of coffee. Anyway, reminder, download, subscribe, rate, write a review, tell a friend about this. We got good stuff working here.

And I do apologize at the language sometimes bothered you. It's just a real organic conversation. Thank you so much for listening. I'm Doug Gottlieb, and this is all my. Are you ready for the big day? Not your big day, her big day. Valentine's Day. If not, you better rush to FTT.com to order early and save on a winning combination of flowers and gifts.

for Monday, February 14th. Bold blooms and gifts are the perfect way to celebrate the one who caught your heart. So go to FTT.com and save 15% through February 14th with Code Crush 15 on fresh. Flores delivered flowers when you order early. See website for details.

FTD. Give with Meaning. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, S&L's Mikey Day and headwriter, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some

retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth.

Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On the Look Back at it podcast. From 1979, that was a big moment for me. 84 was big to me. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick you here, unpack what we're.

and down and try to make sense of how we survived it with our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite authors. Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s. Before it was a wild year. It was a wild year. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win.

A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me. Clifford Taylor the Fourth. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey. or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show.

This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to The Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes,

follow at Clifford and at TikTok podcast network on TikTok. This is an IHeart podcast, Guaranteed Human.