The Herd with Colin Cowherd - All Ball - Pt. 2: Former All-B1G Center Star Brian Butch Talks Crazy Overseas Pro Stories, Transition to Broadcasting

Episode Date: May 7, 2021

In the second part of a two-part interview, Doug continues his conversation with former Wisconsin star center Brian Butch about his NBA Summer League experience, good, bad and ugly overseas stories, the D-League grind, why he called it quits and how he decided to transition into broadcasting. Make sure you download, rate and subscribe here to get the latest All Ball Podcasts! Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Your husband is not who you think he is. Your body is not what you thought it was. Your identity is formed by a secret history. I'm Danny Shapiro. And these are just a few of the stunning stories I'll be exploring on the 14th season of Family Secrets. He kind of shoved me out of the way and said, move. And he went out the front door and he jumped in a car and drove off. And that was the last time I saw him. Listen to season 14 of Family Secrets on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The story I've told myself can then shape my behavior, and that can lead me to sabotage the possibility of connection. This Mental Health Awareness Month, tune into the podcast Deeply Well with Debbie Brown if you've been searching for a soft place to land while doing the work to become whole.

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14th with Code Crush 15 on fresh florist delivered flowers when you order early. See website for details. FTD. Give with meaning. Hey, welcome in. I'm Doug Gottlieb and this, well, this is, is all. Part two of our discussion with Brian Bush. Look, there's lots of stuff in here about playing overseas.

I think one of the big things that those of us who play there know is, one, there's guys you've never heard of, they get better. Two, the culture is very different. Three, every country they ask. Americans to play a little bit differently. The style itself is different. There's just so many parts to it which are really interesting. You know, so many parts to it which are interesting.

But I thought you'd appreciate this because this is really how it works in terms of how many different teams are going to play on, the feeling of it and how very, very difficult it is for people to get a feeling and feel like they belong when sometimes you show up and the coach doesn't even want you. somebody else wants you or somebody else becomes available. All right. Take a listen to Part 2. The Tales of Travel and Non-NBA Basketball with me and Brian Butch.

So we pretty much covered the college thing, right? Yeah. You get, you go what, Summer League with the Grizzlies? Summer League's with the Grizzlies for, and that situation just wasn't a good situation, right? Coming out of college, Summer League, you want to play. I didn't play a whole lot. So I didn't have a lot of opportunities to do what, you know, what you're supposed to do in summer it was a i signed with the with an agent um that i kind of knew a little bit had a relationship

trusted of let's let's have this discussion because i don't think people and and what's what i don't know how to be construed because i don't know if if there's ever been a discussion by two people like us who went through this process yeah like i could really kind of help you but i don't want to i'm not trying to talk shit about another about an asia right just this is okay so So you're playing your senior year at Wisconsin. At what point did you have an agent discussion? I remember a little bit where mine was. So when did you not to your done playing while you're playing?

Yeah, well, I was done playing. There was a guy that was doing some TV stuff that would come out to games as TV, and then he turned himself into an agent, and then we started having conversations. I interviewed five agents after school just to try to get a feel. Do you ever trust an agent? I mean, the answer to that is no. Like, I never did. I just never had a great guy I was with the longest.

There was a lot of conversations where I had to say, dude, be real with me. Like, I don't need, you know, I'm not a guy you need to sugarcoat stuff with. Like, you just need to be honest with me where some guys I understand you need to do that. Like, I didn't need to tell me if I was good or not. The contract was going to speak if I was good or not. Like, if I got enough money to play, I was going to, okay, I'm good. But so the first agent I was with. I went, you know, it just, I felt comfortable with him.

I had known him for a while. Who is this? Go ahead. No, who has his name? Oh, it was Scott Alexander. And like I said, and I still talk with Scott a good amount. It just, you know, with who he surrounded himself with and what he was built on and being new in the industry, it was one of those things that I said, okay, I'll trust you. We'll see you how everything else.

He was working on building a whole bunch of other people around him, too. and it just didn't work out. Like I actually was looking through the emails because I was in a, after Summer League, I thought I had a great deal in Spain. I got over to Spain and I get pulled into the coach's office,

the general manager's office, say, yeah, this is a trial. I said, hold up, a trial. I'm not doing a trial. Like, you can get me out of playing back home. My agent at that time, Scott and his group, never told me it was a trial.

Right, of course time. I flew Russia. Same thing. Like, I said, I said, I'm sorry, guys. I'm good enough not to have a trial. Like, I'm my first team, all Big Ten selection. I'm not doing a trial. Like, you're going to make a commitment.

We're going to even my first year out. I said, this is what it is. But I knew you can't do that. Like, you got to have some skin in the game. I was big on that. So that's how it came out. But in Summer League, I thought, great, I'll get a great opportunity, a big that can shoot, I can play.

I got the call last minute saying, hey, we got you on Memphis's Summer League team. Literally, I was working out at Appleton West, the high school I went to, got a call, had to run home, pack a bag, fly to Memphis that day. Well, why Memphis? Why not a team you were going to,

why, I guess, I mean, like, I, huh? I said, thank you. Right at that point, as a young player, I put all the trust in the age of, which was my fault. I needed to do some more research and figure out where...

How are you going to know at 22 years old or 20 years? For sure, right? Now the... Like, look, I mean, you know, so a guy named Bill McCandless interperformances, like he was on me for a long time.

And he had a bunch of people who knew my dad, reached out to him. And we talked to some other people that, you know, in hindsight, probably would have been better. Like, you try and find a guy who represent... Do you find a guy who...

represents people like you. Yes. Players like you are like, oh, well, he's the point guard agent. Or do you find guys that have nobody like you, so you're the one point guard that he calls about, right? So McCanness was with the guy Herb Redoy, and Herb was like the biggest,

interperformance was the biggest in Europe. And my guess was that my plan was I was going to go and play in Europe, come back Summer League, maybe two or three years and then really have a shot. And the, like, there's a bunch of interesting things. I didn't my, when I came out, I played in the USPL. I didn't do the workouts. And I do think that was sound logic at the time because he was like,

are you going to look better in one-on-one games and three-on-three games or in five-on-five? And I've always been a, I'm a five-on-five guy, right? I, if you see me one-on-one-one in a gym, I do very little for your eyes, you know? other than I'm a pretty athletic white kid, right? But if you see me five on five, so I played in USB, which was good. And people did come to the games to scout, like we're a legit NBA people,

but I didn't feel like it was, I would have liked to have flown out and done a couple of workouts here or there. So then that year in Summer League, that was back when they had it in Long Beach. And they would have the pro teams, but they'd also have like the free agent teams as well. So my dad actually put together

a free agency and I hooped there. It was fun. And then I, um, so the, this was the year that they established the Bozeman A and the Bozeman Bs. And to be, I could actually be in Israeli and be a bosom B. But I mean, here's how bad like the agent communication thing is. So, um, we get married and I flew to Chicago just to, just to, uh, meet Herber Doi for. for the first time. And Herbadoe's, like, Clayton of Fame was like he was Tony Kukoch's agent, right? He was the one to discover Tony Koochurch. So, I mean, literally like this like three days after we're married, we hadn't

playing a honeymoon because I was going to play on this team in Russia. And it was such a boondogle because what they, because they were, they said it was because they're the Bozeman, A, Boson, B, Herbertoy and Interperformances had their own team in this new little Euro League. And the idea was, hey, we'll play for the first five months or whatever. And then when you advance to the next round of the playoffs, we won't necessarily be good enough. Everybody will get sold off to different teams. So it'll just be a showcase. You'll get paid, you know, but you're not going to get paid top of the market. You'll get paid. Anyway, so I go there. So first, we're having dinner. This again, two days after we're married.

went to a Cubs game first, first night, and then we go to have this beautiful dinner with Rubrador Doi in Chicago. He's like, hey, I got good news for you guys. I got good news. I got bad news. I was like, all right, what's the bad news? Bad news is there's no spouses or girlfriends at training camp in Verraise, Italy, right? And we were like, just got married. We're going to Verraise.

That's what we're going to do training camp and hang out. And then ultimately we go to train there and play in Russia. okay what's the good news well the good news is you got two weeks uh you know like we push back training camp because the olympics are going on so you got two weeks to go have a honeymoon like herb i don't have any fucking money i was going to say i have zero like i've literally zero dollars yeah whatever somebody people gave us when we got married that's it that's like literally death to my bank account so we like all right had another nice night in chicago and flew back to Oklahoma. And I for a week, I worked on a construction crew to build a wall across the street

from her, the high school she went to it. And I remember saying to myself, I work out in the morning, I work. And then I went up to Oklahoma State and play tonight. I remember saying to myself, on the drive back from Oklahoma State, like, looking at my hands from where I was like, I'm never doing manual labor ever again. That's real man's work. I'm not a real man. And then I, So then I finally go to this team and the training camp's awesome. And I have a Yugoslavian coach and Yugoslavia coaches don't like small point guards, right? And there's already an American point guard named Keith Mr. Jennings, who's another small point guard, but he played in the NBA. So the one asterisk is they don't like small point guards unless you play in the NBA and they really like small point guards, right?

And I, so I have to, then I'm supposed to go. We train for a couple weeks. then I flew back to the Lakers. They had a minicamp. And again, this is not my age. This is like more my dad in his relationship with Texan. When I got to go to this minicamp, didn't get invited to vet camp, fly back to this team, practice with, you know, work out, go to Israel.

And this is the kicker. This is where, like, you know, you're at agents that suck. So I'm Jewish. And for people who don't understand, you're allowed if you're Jewish to go through Alia, which is like, it's like a birthright, you would automatically be a citizen in Israel. Everyone who's Jewish has told this, right? And they actually give you a free trip.

If you live there, they'll give you free housing for a while. Like, they recruit like no other, right? They're unbelievable Roy Williams type of recruiters. So they're like, okay, you got to go to. to Tel Aviv will meet you the airport, take you to get your citizenship, for the next day you'll fly back. You had dinner with this Israeli agent after you. So I bring like some hoops shoes, some other stuff. I feel like a two-day trip.

So I get up the plane, guys totally nice, get a cup of coffee, go. We go to immigration or whatever it's called. And I get to the front line and you're supposed to write down like where you live. and I was like, I wrote down this hotel in France. I was like, oh, no, a hotel in Italy where I'm living. So I get to the front, and they look through your documents, your bar mitzvah, whatever, may prove you're Jewish. And where do you live? And I was like, well, I live in Italy.

I'm a basketball player. I mean, I was just honest with all my, you know, like, you cannot claim Alia unless you live in Israel for one year. I was like, what? So I walk out of this thing And I was just like hey dude What the fuck It's like oh You must say you live in Israel

Like you know that information Like would have been helpful Very very useful About 25 minutes ago Yeah I was like and maybe An address some documentation Just something Yeah

So How about this You're all on Okay So flew from from Milan to Tel Aviv. Not a crazy long flight, but I think it was several hours. I go and I do this thing and I had just a cup of coffee.

Like that's literally all I'd had all day. And now I walk out like, oh shit, I'm not going to be an Israeli citizen. So like, no problem. We'll get you a job in Israel. So literally they're like yelling, you know, I've ever been, you've been to the Middle East. Okay. So for anybody who hasn't been to, and I think most of Europe is this way, but especially once you get to the Mediterranean areas, when you get to Greece, Turkey, Israel, and anything on, you know, anything right there in the goal. A day is not a day without an argument.

Right. Like, I told, I coached in Israel. I coached in Israel and I told, I coached in Israel and I told these. guys. I told them, he's like, fellas, listen, a day is not a day without an argument. Like, what do you mean? I was like, you're, wait, we'll get on. The first team bus we get on, the drivers will start arguing for no reason. I don't know if they're arguing or talking loud. I can't understand anything. So we sit down and say that. So I take that with, this is me, this is me in 2001. No, this is in 2000. So in 2000, and they're yelling at

each other on the phone. I don't know who screwed up, right? And Matan Amir, I think was the guys named. So they take me to Eshtad for a practice. And they're like, we stopped and got like a shwarma and a freaking Coke, right, which is the, which is the, I mean, you grew up in the Midwest, so I don't know if they did this, but like, you know, like if you grew up, my dad used to take me to play in New York City. We're playing out, like, that's the two, a slice of pizza and a Coke or a hot dog in a Coke in the States is a shwarma and a Coke and go play basketball. So I'm like, How much does it pay to be an Israeli this year in Israel? Because I'm...

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Can I, do I even go? I don't even know how this all works. I got some puts who forgot to tell me that I needed to lie and say I lived in Israel, like 30 minutes ago, right? So I went and played, and I was miserable. and I don't know if I was good or I was bad. I just remember riding back and I end up staying with my friend Miles Simon, who was playing Renana for a couple days. I just remember thinking myself like,

God, this is a bad way for my career to end before I ever. Ever starts. And a lot of it is, a lot of is the agent, right? Like all of this shit should have been, I signed with a guy who had all set up deal, but they didn't fully yet. They all just like, okay, okay, okay. Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in the nation.

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Brought to you by the United States Forest Service and the ad council. So like the Memphis thing for people to understand is like you got to find not just a team that wants you, but a team that says, hey, we're going to play you and we're going to play you in a way in which you can be successful. If you have that, if you have a number of teams that are interested. Yep, exactly. And for me, like, they were like, oh, Memphis would be great for you. We'll get it done. And, like, it was such a horrendous situation for me to be in.

And then it sent me back. And, like, a lot of guys, they think, oh, I made it to Summer League. I made it into the NBA. You didn't do anything. Like, they let everybody play in Summer League. Like, Summer League is. Oh, my way. It's like, I hate these guys that get on Instagram and Twitter and everything.

Look, and I made it. I made it. You didn't do anything in Summer League, man. anybody can hoop in Summer League. Like, if you got a connection, you're going to hoop in Summer League, too. Like, that's Summer League. So a lot of favors. A lot of favors.

So I knew that, but the situation wasn't good. They sent me to Spain on a tryout. I fired him while I was still in Spain because I said, this isn't good. Like, I was looking, before I jumped on, I was looking through the emails. I have the email that said, I'm firing you. This is done. You didn't pick up your phone call, so we are done. This is cabosh.

This is over with. Like, thankfully, for me, it worked out where it was only that one time. I signed a new agent. He was the agent I stuck with throughout then Keith Kreider out of Chicago Edge Sports. He got me a gig right away in China that year. I was only there about six weeks. Jason Robbenu, the was my coach there. He's no longer alive.

That's how crazy it is. I believe it was Utef guy. I know he was a Marquette assistant for a little bit. Oklahoma, I think Oklahoma. Yeah, I think so, exactly. Kelvin Samson, yeah. Yes, yes, yes, yes. Bradwin.

Oh, that was crazy. That was, and for me, I was still playing Wisconsin basketball, college basketball in China. And if you know anything about China. I don't know anything about playing in China. Okay, so, so pay me the visual. You fly from where to where to go to Chicago. I fly from Appleton to Chicago to China to Beijing and then Beijing to Jingston.

Okay, wait, nonstop Chicago to Beijing. Nonstop, yep. Okay. Yep. So you're 23 years old? Yeah, 23. Yep. You're 23.

So. First class? No, no, no. I learned that on the way back. I've learned that. I understand. Like people don't understand. People think, people think foreign basketball always first class, like the fight over business class and first class.

And coach. Coach. Coach is brutal, right? And I can fit into an overhead compartment. You cannot. So you're on a plane. Hold on. You on a plane to Beijing, China.

How long is the flight? I believe it was. 13 or 14. That's rough. Okay, so you fly there. You're in coach. You land. Land.

You stay in Beijing. Okay, you walk out like what, what do you remember about the airport? Yeah, I know. So I'm Beijing and I'm still there. Then I fly to Jingsu. So I got one more flight to get the jing su. But is it the same airport? It's like when you did rush, when I did Russia, you go to one airport and they pick you up and

they take you to a different airport. No, same airport. And there's a, there's a moment in that drive where you're thinking to yourself, there's a lot of places he could dump me. Oh, no question. No question. So you land and you're in how hard, I mean, I don't know how worldly are, 23, how hard, gin zoo, you have to, same airport.

It looks like an American airport. Like, I don't know what. It looks like an American airport. Do you know it's not, but it's different. So the team, the team picks you up. The translators there, Eagle, the translators there. Jason Robbuk came to pick me up because I think he knew I didn't know. So at least there was another American there.

The first, he goes, hey, you hungry? I say, yeah, let's go wherever. I'm open. Hey, let's hit up this KFC. So I'm not kidding. After all of this, we stop in a KFC in China to make this one. Like, that's the first meal I have. And so that's what we do.

They take me to the hotel. I sleep for about two hours. And then we go to practice right away. And I, it's me and former Florida player, darn here harder, right? Those are the two Americans, because you only get two Americans in China. He was on the team to beat me my last game in the lead eight. Exactly. Shot fake, go left and he's punching.

That's it. But he had made a career in China. Like, they loved everything about him. I came in to replace a guy. But at that point, like, who was the guy you came to replace? Don't even know his name. Don't even like he was long gone. They said, hey, we need somebody now.

They said, get on a plane and go. I said, well, how much is the cash? They paid me 30,000, which for a 23-year-old for a month was like, done, let's go. Like, let's go. So I was like, I'm on. Let's do this. But in China, this is, everyone sees these numbers of these guys over there

scoring 60, 70, 80. But that's because that's what you have to do. You take every shot. you don't guard the other American and you just go get buckets. Like there's no, like you're not trying to play defense against each other. You just know that your job is to score

and their job is to score. And you just go get buckets. Like 20 points, 20 rebound games, those are, those aren't that good. Like, I had 20 and 13. And literally after two games there, being there six weeks, we only played two games as the start

of the season. That night, after the second game, there was a play ticket on my bed. We were on the road. There was a plane ticket on my bed back to Jing Su. They said, you're done. That was it. That was it. Two games? Two games. That was it. But you got your three grand. Oh, yeah. It was go get your money, back alley, going to some back room. Like you talked about thinking it was time to get your career, your life might be done type stuff. Oh yeah. Oh, yeah. I remember. So my first, our first big game, we played when I was in Russia.

We won the championship with, it's called Eurograde. But we played in Moscow and we beat Cesska. Oh, yeah. And we got back and we had a team meeting and in wants the team president. And he's got like the, he's got the handcuffed brief clip case. And he's got two goons with them. And he opens the briefcase and the player of the game, that $5,000 cashed. every other dude that played decent minutes got three grand and then dudes that did nothing got like

a thousand dollars but like you know some moscow incredibly expensive but where we live not incredibly expensive so like when i remember that three thousand dollars i got like i think that lasted me almost the entire time i was there like i literally like hey we don't need to draw any cash like here's our cash the rest of the time and uh yeah and then my we won the championship and they had like a victory parade, but they had given out so many cash bonuses that, like, we don't have, I think it was like a 25 or 30 grand cash bonus. And they were like, all we have is 18,000. And it was the end of June. And Summer League was like starting like in two days. And I had a spot in the Lake here's Summer League because anybody plays Summer League. And I'm like, fuck, I got to go. They're like,

if you wait, stay, celebrate. Like, now I'm out. So one, we put, we put the extra cash in our shoes, right? Because when you get to Moscow, they want taxes, right? Put in your shoes. And then two, they were like, don't leave. You won't get the rest of your cash. You'll never see it.

Kiss that fucking money goodbye. And you know what? You know what? I got all my money from. Really? Yes. I like, it was like two weeks later. And all of a sudden I like, you know, got like $200 out or something.

and I looked and I was like, where else money come from? Yeah. And then I called the bank to like, you got a wire from something in Russia. I was like, oh, my God. So yes, it's, okay, so you get to Jinzu, you're going home. Now you fly, you get back to Beijing and then all the way home. All the way home. Okay, so this is still fall after your.

Yeah. After my, you know, first year out of college still falls. Then I end up going to Germany. and I play for a small team called Nerling. I actually went to Brummerhaven, and at this point it was December. No, it was November, right before Thanksgiving. I had a trial for Brummerhaven.

At this point, I thought you didn't do tryouts. I don't do tryouts. Yeah, well, in November, not having a job, I sure did. It changed real quick because you're like, I do trials. How much? I do trials. Yeah. Exactly.

What did you dance and react the whole time? That's what it was. So I go to Bremerhaven, knowing that I've got another team that's interested as well. So I got two teams in Germany. So I can kind of pick and choose a little bit. So I knew like, I'll go to Bremerhaven first. I don't know if it's going to work out. Like it's way up north in Germany.

It's freezing cold. The team sucks. Like, it's bad. It's bad. Hold on. He grew up in Appleton, Wisconsin. Stop with the weather. Oh, my God.

The weather is terrible. This is different. Every day of my life. this was different though. Like it just was, I walked down. This is not a good place at all. So I got on a train, went down to the small town in Nerdley. Like they picked me up with the whole coaching staff.

Their team picks me up. Like they're like, we want you to be here. We want you like because this team, their whole thing was they wanted to stay in the top division. This had been a small team that had been in Division III, Division 2. Now they finally got to the top division. Like we just want to stay. We don't need to win a lot of games. but we just want to stay in the top.

And I was like, all right. And if you guys really want me that bad, let's do this. So I stayed in Nerlin. And it was a situation where, like, I loved it. Like one of the assistant coaches, his mom was willing to teach, like, German to me. So I'd go over to her house. I learned Russian when I was in Russia, too. Exactly.

I'd go over to their house. She'd make dinner. I'd learn German. I was like, if I'm going to do it, let's do it. So, like, you go all in with that stuff. we had some players, not guys that anyone would know of, but just like small school guys. Danny Gibson was a little point guard, Omar, and I'm trying to forget. Daniel Gibson played in Texas, right?

No, well, not that Danny Gibson. I mean, no, not that Danny Gibson. Danny Gibson from a little division two school. But he ended up playing like 13 years over there. No, those dudes, they find a niche and they get confident and they get better. They're good. Exactly. And they know how to play that type of game.

So who's the coach? Andrew, Andres Wagner. And he's been doing a whole bunch of different. You know, he's still coaching in Germany, but he was a young coach. And we just, I mean, like, it was a bunch of guys that just played. And we ended up, like, so we were bottom or we were above the team, Brummerhaven. We ended up beating Bremerhaven. last game in the season. We stay in the league. I get the bonus for staying in the league and all

those other things. Like it was, it was a good fit for me. I needed it because it was a situation where like, again, I don't do tryouts. My first thing, I did trouts to get a job. So like, that's what it, like, it was, it was great. And I think that's kind of like, I learned that like, what overseas basketball was. Like, you, like, in China, it was like still play college basketball. Hey, great shot, but kick it one more time. It's going to come back to you. It's not coming back to you. And guess what?

They're not paying you for it to come back to you. They're paying you to go get buckets now. And I learned that in Germany. So I felt good. And then that next summer was in Summer League again. This time I was with Milwaukee. And it wasn't a great setup there either because they had just drafted Joe Alexander. Like there was no playing time.

I still went. I still did it, but it was one of those where it was like, this is a wasted summer. So let's go overseas again. So I end up going to Greece. Had a good, good, good deal. Tasos is the owner. The guy's name was Tasos. And I always remember it because the owner was shady as could be.

They're all shady. Right? So I get to Greece. There's no internet. There's nothing. There's a whole holiday. Like there's the whole month of August is a holiday. The whole holiday, holiday.

So I got no way, I got nothing. I'm over there just trying to figure this thing out, trying to understand what it is. Our coach doesn't speak any English. We got an assistant coach that somewhat spoke English. And I'll remember this to this day because they, I left in November. They brought, it was me, Brent Petway, former Michigan guy.

Yeah. And they brought back, oh my goodness. They brought a dude from Illinois in, to replace me. And I had gone 20, 20, I had three double doubles in a row. But the reason they were replacing me is they couldn't pay me. So I was not getting any of my money. So this was, it was coming too ahead.

Now, during this time, like this club didn't have a lot of money. We were, honestly, we had practice one time in the gym. The roof was leaking. And they put buckets on the floor. And then they said, well, just practice. around the bucket. It's like, don't worry about them. Like, go five on five, but don't worry about them.

Like, just don't knock them down because then we got to stop practice and clean up the floor. Now, I'm coming from Big Ten, Cole Center, like, that's what you expect and then you go overseas. And it's like, you want me to practice around the buckets? That's why, that's why dudes can't make it, though. Exactly. I can't make it. Exactly. When you start hanging your shit, when you start hanging your shit on a hook.

Yep. Right. You've been in these college locker rooms? You're like, what am I doing here? Yep. What am I doing here? So here's the key with all of this, right? So I'm doing all of this.

I realize that we're going our own ways, but I need to get my money. Because if I don't get my money, I'm not coming home with it. Like I literally, so they let me go. And I'm forgetting, Carter, Carter, Carter, was the guy from Illinois. Like, we had played against each other. He came to replace me. I bought a ticket to go to the game in Greece. So they had released me.

I bought a ticket to go watch the game. And I acted like I was part of the team at halftime because the owner was there in the locker room. I walked in with the team with street clothes. And I said, you know, bought a ticket. So I could get into the game because I needed to see the owner because the owner was dodging me, man. I'd go to his office. Oh, he's not here. Tasso is no here.

Tasso, no here. What do you mean Tassel's no here? Right here's Tassel's car. You mean Tassel's. isn't here. Like he's right here. Like I know he's no, no, no here. Okay. All right. So I buy a ticket. I go in the locker room.

Tasso's is there. My man becomes white as a ghost. And I said, give me my bleeping money. I said, I'm done playing games. Give me my money in front of the locker room. The coach, the players. Now the Americans, pet, these guys, they're just laughing because like they know what it is. It's Greece. Yeah, exactly.

They're laughing. I'm like, that's fine. I'm getting something from you. I'm getting my money. before I leave. What happened? So I got my money. I got in the plane and left.

The next two days I have my money and I was out the door. That's hysterical. Did you get hooked on that Ness Cafe when you're in? Is that what they do in Greece where they whip up the instant nest cafe and they whip it up and put a bunch of sugar and milk in there? Do you get hooked on that? Always. That's all we didn't have one practice. They took us to a coffee shop, Doug.

Like that was practice. Like, ah, you know what? Coffee shop, coffee shop. What do you mean? coffee shop. We're supposed to practice today. No, no, coffee shop. So we all went through coffee show. I didn't forget. So when I was my year in Israel, I had a coach who, his name is a Sharon Drucker. And he had coached Miles like the year before in Renana. And Miles and him had kind of butted head some. And, you know, they, they were so stupid and slow in their negotiations

is after 9-11, that I end up, by the time I agreed to a deal, it was like one day after the date to register, so I couldn't play the first four games, right? Yep, that's yep. So there's a couple of different stories that are really good. I'll give you the one, though, in terms of the interaction with the coach, was after, like, he's like, go to leave, you have very smart basketball. You come with coaching, you like coaching staff first four games.

It's like, cool, right? So, you know, it sounded like the coolest thing ever where, like, I would be in the coach's meetings and then I'd go warm up. But I couldn't play. So then at halftime, he asked one, be in the coach's meetings. And then, you know, sometimes I'd give an opinion or whatever. And then after games, I'd go to coffee with the coaches, right? and it actually ended up being a bad thing because Shrohn's like, Professor Gottlieb,

you know more than us. When I started playing for him, like, hey, dude, you're the one who like, tried to make me feel like I was a coach. We would just want to make you feel like a part of the team. Like, why did you invite me to the coach's shit? When you're talking shit about all the players, and then, you know, when I share my thoughts as a player,

you're like, I know too much. So coaches, and I will tell you that Sharon ran one of my favorite practices because all we did was play. Yeah. Right. Like all of his teaching was within playing, which I really liked because, I mean, like,

you get past the point of breakdown drills. Like, all right, you know, like just tell me we want me to be and tell me we want to be. All right. What's one? What's three? We run horns. Orn's Swiss. We're running.

Just tell me I can figure the shit out. Exactly. Okay. So you get home from Greece. Get home from Greece. And that's what you're like, fucking, I'm staying stateside. Yeah. yeah, yo.

Like, I was like, I'm done. Like, I'm done chasing money. I'm done with the headaches. Like, I haven't had a good experience. I'm just going to try the G League, like, or the D League at this point. Like, I'm just, you know what, like, and at this point, you go to the D league was not a good thing. Like, it wasn't what it is now. Like, it was like, but I knew, like, I knew if I did what I was supposed to do, it sent me up for a good summer league,

which would then set me up for a good overseas, and then we would see what happened. That restart it, yeah. Exactly. Just a quick, you know, and do that. Well, I go to the, you went to the D-League in that season? In that season, yep. So I went there right before Christmas. Okay. So you go to Bakersfield? Yeah, Benin won a game. They were a new, Will Boyd. I know Will? Yep. Yep. Coach, he's still doing his thing, I think, in, let me see. He's, oh, he's like in China or.

He's in Germany right now with Bonn. Yep. Yep. So I go there. they hadn't won a game. First game there, I hit a game winner. You would have thought that the lot, like, I did something. Like, I was like, this is what happened. Like, okay, you know, whatever. So, but the best thing is, so I'm glad you know Will then. So Will's a little testy at times.

And I'm a little testy. Like, and so we got to the showcase. And we had. Hey, everyone. It's Ryder Strong and Will Friedel from PodMeets World. And now the Pod Meets Twirled podcast. were two men who were completely clueless to reality TV, who now have covered Dancing with the Stars, traitors,

and we're gearing up for the season finale of Survivor. So yeah, now we're experts. I know we annoyed a lot of our listeners by our severe lack of survivor knowledge. That is the point of the show. I'm just going to remind you. I have watched some Survivor. I obviously haven't watched enough. Did people not like it?

Yeah. Just because we? Yeah. We'll be recapping the big conclusion at the 50th season. from the final attempts at gameplay to the desperate pleas of finalists to a bunch of ha-hoo again we are experts

so make sure to tune into Pod Meets Twirled for all our Survivor 50 takes listen to Pod Meets Twirled on the IHeart Radio app Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts I'm Kate Winkler Dawson host of the Wicked Words podcast each week I sit down with the true crime writers behind some of the most compelling true crime stories

and discuss their years spent in investigating and why it still matters. He sees his father coming out of the woods with his hands over his face, and he knows something happened. His father just grabs him and says she's gone. She's gone. These are the cases that leave survivors, families, and the journalists who cover them changed forever.

Working in national television, it'll push you to your limits, and you'll end up doing things you never thought you'd do. You know, you look back at it and you're like, I can't believe that really happened. Join me and step inside the investigation. New episodes drop every Monday on the Exactly Right Network. Listen to Wicked Words on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. It's your responsibility to not just seek help, but to identify that you need help.

This is Mental Health Awareness Month. Tune in to the podcast, Just Healed with Dr. Jay, and take real steps toward healing, growth, and becoming your best. best self. When you hear the word healing, what does that mean for you? What came right back to mine are the three P's that I live by. I'll go through the process of healing so that patience, that perseverance, and that prayer equals healing to me. From understanding your mental health to doing the work, we break down practical tools, real conversations, and the mindset shifts you need to move forward and thrive. You matter too. Your mental health is your responsibility, not your wife, not your partner, not your children, not the church, not the pastor, not the council.

It's your responsibility. It's time to stop putting your healing on hold and start doing something about it. Listen to Just Here with Dr. Jade on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Your husband is not who you think he is. Your body is not what you saw it was. Your identity is formed by a secret history. I'm Danny Shapiro, and these are just a few of the stunning stories I'll be exploring on the 14th season of family secrets. And just then, we felt the plain turn in the air, so much so that the bags that were under people's seats just kind of flew into the aisle. Each week, we dive head first into the complex power of secrecy, how it shapes our identities and relationships, and how it ultimately can reveal

to us our truest selves. My daughter, she's pretending she doesn't know, but is trying to cook and feed me and keep me alive because I wasn't eating anything and me pretending like everything was fine. He kind of shoved me out of the way and said, move. And he went out of the front door and he jumped in a car and drove off. And that was the last time I saw him. Listen to season 14 of Family Secrets on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Sat down and had a great breakfast. But I told him, I said, I don't think we're doing things right. Like we just had a real coach. And he goes, you know what, you're not good enough for the NBA right now. And like, it was, I loved it.

Like, I was like, thank you. Like, because I'm a guy that crazed honesty. I want to be coach. I want to just tell me, just be real. Just tell me, just tell me the deal, right? Yes. I've done, then there's way too long for you to blow smoke of my ass. Exactly.

And after that, it clicked. Like, it clicked for me. Like, I need to rebound the basketball. And I need to continue to score and do what I'm doing. But if I rebound, now, now guys are looking at me like, right, like, he can do something on the defense van for us. And he can stretch the floor. So, all right.

So by the time we get done playing the G League, that time I get done playing the D League, I was a D League MVP in the All-Star game. And then I got called up by the Nuggets within six months. I go from being released and fighting for money within five to six months later, signed an NBA deal with the Nugget. Like it was nuts. And it just was all because it just clicked.

So that was, to me, that was the best thing that I did at that point in my career. I go to Denver. I blow up my knee. I've got to rehab for 15 months. My first time I play is when I try to make the Pan American team for Team USA. Dan Gundy the coach? No. Nate Tibitz was the coach.

So they had a coach. He was the G-Leod coach in Tulsa, right? Yep, exactly. Him and Dale Osborne, they're both on Portland staff now. They were the coach for the Pan Am game. So we went down to Tulsa. got a bunch of G League guys, and we played in the Pan Am game.

I made the squad. First time I played, had real live competition in 15 months with money. And then it was, we came back. Did you guys win? We finished third.

Finish third. Who is your favorite person on that team? We had Blake Ahor. Ahorne. Who else we have, Jordan, Tyson. We had a bunch of Moses,

Hempbe. We had a bunch of dudes that were like, who was your favorite? I'm not talking about a player. Who's your favorite person? Because everybody, it's like Noah's Ark.

Everybody goes off in twos, right? A little bit. Yeah, a little bit. This was different because literally at the, like, the team center we were at, we were all in the same,

like, building. We had... What country was in it? Guadalajara, Mexico. So we had, like, four guys sleeping in the same room type deal. Like, it was nuts.

Like, it was crazy. It was like, so you're like, like, what's your best person? Like, we have four guys at one room, four guys in the next room, down the hall, four guys, four guys. So like the whole team was in two, like two different rooms because they were two big rooms. So like we were to close with everything. I said Blake Ahern probably is the guy like we had connected with because I had played with him in Bakersfield earlier though. So like we had, you know, kind of one of those deals. Now open Key Point Credit Union at 7030 Santa Teresa Boulevard in San Jose.

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Mom is coming out the front door strong with a double-armed kid carry. Looks like Dad has the bags. Daughter is bringing up the rear. Oh, but the diaper bag wasn't closed. Dipers and toys are everywhere. Ooh, but Mom has just nailed the perfect car seat buckle for the toddler. And now the eldest daughter, who looks to be about nine or ten, has secured herself in the booster seat.

Dad zips the bag closed, and they're off. Ah, but looks like Mom doesn't realize her coffee cup is still. on the roof of the car, and there it goes! Oh, that's a shame. That mug was a fam favorite. Don't sweat the small stuff. Just nail the big stuff. Like making sure your kids are buckled correctly in the right seat for their age and size. Learn more at nhtsa.gov slash the right seat. Visit nhtsa.gov.

Slash the right seat. Brought to you by Nitsa and the Ad Council. If I could be you. And you could be me for just one hour. If you could find a way to get inside. each other's mind walk a mile in my shoes walk a mile in my shoes we've all felt left out and for some that feeling lasts more than a moment we can change that learn how it belonging begins with us dot org brought to you by the ad council walk a mile in my shoes um okay um what and then you went to when did you go to port rico so i went to port rico after so i went to we played to we played played in that. It was the lockout year. Then I went to New Orleans. So we had played, I went to Bakersfield, played two games or two or three games in Bakersfield. And then the lockout ended.

So then you went to training camp. And I played. That's when I tore my MCL and Patel in the other knee. Then that following year, that's when I, or that summer I went to Puerto Rico then. And you talked about it. You know how it goes. You get on the flight. It went not a super long flight, but four or five hours. I'm seven feet tall. I did get first first class. I was. this one. I learned like, okay, let's, you know, let's do this. But I get in to the airport at 5 o'clock, tip is at 7. They've got me playing in the game. And, and, and tell me if I'm wrong, but like, those spring leagues, Puerto Rico, Venezuela, I don't know about the Philippines. I know you played there, I think. Yeah. But those are basically like, you will literally get one game if you play

shitty and they just fucking send you home. It's a short season. And they're like, come in. in, get buckets, or go home. Is that about right? Right. Like, so it's hilarious because I get there, I play. Second quarter, my hamstring is really tight. Like, and you can feel like, like, my body

isn't the greatest, the injury is continued to go, right? My hand strings tight, but I'm like, I got to keep this job. I end up hitting the game winner, but the last three minutes, my hamstring is just throbbing. So I'm like, I get back to to the apartment they threw me in.

I'm icing and I'm doing all this stuff and I'm like, dude, there's something seriously wrong here. Like, this isn't good. Sure enough, I string my hamstring. They're like, we can't wait two weeks for you to get healthy. We're sending you home. One game? One game winner. And I'm gone.

And it's just like, are we doing this? Like, is this how I go? I go, okay, sounds good. I mean, this is what it was. Okay, so you get home? Then what? There was regroup. Like, try to think.

figure out what it was. I'm going to plan for the D-League select team in Vegas, summer league, because I was like, I'm done playing with the NBA teams. Like, give me a spot where I can show out a little bit. Like, I talked with Alex Jensen, who's the head coach of the G-League team. And he's like, dude, if you come, you're going to start. You're going to start, you're going to play for us. So I said, let's do it. Let's do it. Played well. Then I had the situation of, okay, do I go overseas right way or do I try one more year? to get to where I was to do two different times. And this is where I probably stuck around in the G League or D League too long.

Like I stuck around. I played another four months there. And it came to a point with like with Will and with everybody. I was like, what am I doing here? Like, am I going to get to the NBA or not? Because I'm now at this point, 29. Like, I don't have that much more time to make that much money doing this. What am I doing?

And Will asked me to, to take a pay cut because they want to bring somebody in. And a pay cut, the G league, you're only making $19,000 the way it was. I said, I'm not taking any less money. Like, it's not happening. So I said, you know what? Trade me to Fort Wayne. They traded me to Fort Wayne.

I was there three weeks. And while I was on my way to Fort Wayne, I talked to my age, I said, listen, Keith, I said, if it's not going to happen, you need to get me out of the D League. Now, at this point, there was a 25, I think it was $25,000 or $50,000 buyout to get out of the league. if you got a contract, which is crazy. Like, I get they were trying to build the league, but that was just stupid amount. Right.

That's why I played in the ABA back when the ABA system, the IBA and the other thing, you had no or minimal buyout. Yep. And Keith was able to get this deal done with the Philippines, and I headed over to the Philippines. They paid the $50,000 buyout, and they paid me a good amount of money to go over there and play.

I'm over there. What's that like? You land in the Philippines. What's that like? Loved it. Like they love basketball. We landed there. We practiced.

Had a great teammate by the name of guy by the name of Jared Dillinger when it was like awesome. He was he told me like what it needed to do. We go back to this like they had something called Bouillat, which is like a duck embryo. And like one of these, one of their teammates was one of the things like he brought in. And I said, sure, I'll do it. Like I'll take up by this knowing that like five. I try to buy into the team and I'd become a good part of it. I might stick around a little bit longer.

Like I'll play good, but like maybe you try this too and it might work. So here's the kicker with all this. Like this is the craziest thing I've ever been apart. You know, they bring me into the locker room as I get off the plane for practice. The coach pulls me in, he goes, I'm taking a chance on you. You know, they wanted to bring in a couple of different players, but I took a chance on you. so let's, you know, prove me right.

I'm like, okay, let's go. So I'm playing really well. I'm 40, 30 games, you name it, like 40 points, 30 rebounds, like never happened. I'm a big that can shoot the three. Like, I've got three-point celebrations because the fans are going crazy. Like, I'm doing it all to try to, oh, yeah. It wasn't the arrow. It was this.

It was like a chop, man. It was, but I'm like, I've got to find a way to keep this job. So I find out through the great bonds, they're bringing in Darnel Jackson from China to take my job. And I'm playing good and we're winning. Now, in the Philippines, you can only be 6-8. You can't be 6-Eleven like I am unless it's the bottom two teams. So after a couple of practices, all the guys do you measure. That's a crazy rule.

Oh, crazy. Crazier part is they said, Brian, don't drink anything, don't eat anything. we need you to be under 611 because if you're above 611 you can't be on our team they take me to this this like a hospital area they put me down on a table and then everybody else had like a manager from the teams come to this to this height measurement so i got i'm in my underwear and that's it which i don't know how that affects my height i still haven't figured that out but they got me stripped down on underwear and i got all the other teams managers there while they're measuring how tall I am.

Like it was just like, what in the world am I doing to get a paycheck? Like it was nuts. So that was crazy. Like I said, then I go and I'm playing really well. And they bring Darnell Jackson in. Now, I hear that he's coming in. Jared tells me about this. That night, I go for 40 and 31.

Okay. We win. I go to management. and I very like very blunt said I know you're bringing somebody in you know after 4031 you're feeling good about yourself you're I'm going to say what's really on my mind like I said I know you got somebody I don't want to see him at practice I don't want to see him at the games I don't want to see him anywhere like he is nowhere to be where I am period like if you want to work him out you do it after our practice like we've got something going here the next game now we stay I stayed in this a part apartment complex, the hotel. There's only one place to eat. That's where I always ate. That's what I did. The next game, I get food poisoning. And so I try to play through food poisoning. I end up in the hospital because I'm dehydrated. The next day after I get out of the hospital, the coaches and

everyone come to and say, hey, we're going to release you. And like, it doesn't add up to me. Like, because that's the only one place to eat. Like, it just doesn't add up to me. Like, I firmly believe that something happened to my food, knowing that they tried to get rid of me, knowing that they tried to get rid of me. Knowing that they try to get rid of it. Like, like, that Russian spy shit, or they're, like, poisoning you? Like, honestly. Like, and I know it's crazy to think that, but this is why.

They came to me and they said, all right, we're going to let you go. But you can't say anything. You can't put it on Twitter. You can't say anything. we're going to give you an extra $20,000. Not to say why you got released. And I'm just like, what? Like, that's where it started to really get fishy for me there.

Like it was a crazy situation. I love the Philippines. The people are great. I love the basketball. I love the situation. It was just crazy. I mean, that was one of the weirder ones where I looked at, what just was like, what am I getting into?

All right. So then you come home and then you did one last season in Japan, right? No, I went to fly after that. So what was that like? My two guys was like 5-11, 260. I mean, the basketball, so they try to make an investment and trying to make the game better. And they're doing a better job. The players are getting better.

It was, I loved it. Like, it was, I mean, I went there with my wife. We practiced at night. we'd run to Starbucks, we'd go to the beach in the morgue. So we'd get up, we'd work out, we'd stop by Starbucks on the way home, we'd go to the beach, we'd make dinner, I'd go to practice, my wife would hang out, and like, that was life. And I loved it.

We had an American coach, which was Coach Joey, and I'm blanking on his last name right now. But he was there, and like they had a guy there. I came in to take his spot, and they had me practice, against them one game or one day and they said we're going to run with him because they're right in the middle of a cup play and after one practice they're like all right we might change our mind you might come in and play like during the rest of the cup which again was a weird situation but that's how overseas basketball is like you're going to lose your job someone's going to take it and then you're going to take somebody else's job like it's it's nuts so I mean I love that place it was great the basketball wasn't great but I I mean, I love, like, Dubai is it. I don't know if you've ever been, but like, I'm not, I'm not. I'll tell my, my, my, my Dubai trip story really quickly.

I was in Russia for the first, a couple months, and then they have a break. And they, this is, again, this is in 2001. And they were getting ready to go to travel to Dubai to train for a couple weeks, have a couple weeks off. So they have us bringing our passports. To my passport, I am Jewish. And I've been to Israel a bunch times. And like, there's no way you'll get in the country.

And probably in hindsight I could have, and I had known that I could have just got a or just got a new passport without any Hebrew writing on it. So I had to stay in Perm Russia and train twice a day with one coach and in the gym, and they're all in fucking Dubai. That's my Dubai story. When did you know it was over? My last show, I played two years in Japan. I played with Toshiba.

And then I had another knee injury that I had to get a surgery on when I got, came back. I was able to play one more year in Fukuoka, won championships with both teams. But I knew at that point when I was in Fokka, like, I don't know if it was for you, but for me, like the amount of work that I needed to put in just to get on the practice floor, like my last year in Japan, I would say Monday, because we played back-to-back,

so we would play Friday, Saturday, Sundays. It would be Monday, Tuesday that I would go to the coach. like I physically can't practice. Like it hurts too much. By Wednesday I was good. But like my knees, my back, like it was all just, it was done. I just wasn't a good. I just wasn't a good.

That's the difference to being you. I just wasn't. I actually, my thing, and this is kind of an interesting one that I wanted, this is probably about last deal is I found that the hardest part was, they're not, it's not a team. Like, you know. I, it was, I just, it was in college. Like, I think the, there's a couple reasons that guys, everybody thinks like,

hey, everybody's going to league. If not, let's go overseas and make a bunch of money. Like, yeah, you're going to a different culture. And you're like, it's just another uniform, you know. And do you want, when the game starts, do you want to win? Hell yeah, you want to win. But I remember winning a Russian championship and feeling nothing. Like, I feel nothing.

You lose the game. And you're, if you play. well, you're like, if I can play well, you know, like, did my shit. And I'm like the least selfish person on earth, but I just, I hate that. And then I hated when I was in the minor leagues, no matter which one, the only thing somebody could talk about was playing somewhere else. Yeah. Right. Man, I got to get here. I got to get there. I got to get paid. I got to, like, nobody's like, nobody gets like, hey, we just won a game. We're down seven. Like, it's just a game. It's just an means to an end. That was the hard part. Okay. So you get done playing.

Come back from Japan. you're done. Like, how long was it before you ever, like, picked up a basketball and, like, what, I mean, when you decided you were done, did you go through any period of, I need a little space from something because I've done it so much. I needed a space from working out from the process of that. As far as the game. Yeah, I don't want anybody tell me where I got to be and when I got to be.

Correct, right, exactly. Like, as far as the game, like, I jumped in and was an assistant coach with the Wisconsin herd, the Bucks G-G league team, that next year. right away. Like so the game like I love the process. Yes. But it was a different process. Like it was finally it was breaking down film. It was studying the game more. It was being able to teach the game without having physically to go out and do it anymore. Like that for me like as far as working out like I've worked out occasionally, but it's not like I work out like I used to. Like and I'm not going to anymore. Like I'll still do some stuff but it's like it's not that. So for me it's the

process of what I loved now with the coaching and diving into it. And that's why like I love. love being an analyst now on BTN because it's the same thing. Like the scouted reports that I put together in the Jee League team. Yeah. It's my prep work. Like it's funny. I told, I told Alano Tucker and Joe Crabner off this,

I had a Wisconsin and Illinois Chicago game this year. I said, boys, if your whole team got sick, if guard got sick, if you guys got sick, I could give you a scour report to your team. Because I know, I don't have two because I'm same thing.

I watched the five games before. You know. Okay, actually this is the last one. As a big guy, a scoring big, and as a guy now who runs camps and developmental program, right, say a big white kid comes into your, into your gym. And, you know, forever, we've told kids, like, get your ass down the block, you know, get position, established position.

Like, how do you decide, how would you, if you could rebuild your game, what would you do when you have a kid who's big early on in their development? So there's a lot of things, right? But like the one thing that I would focus on more than anything, more than anything, is the footwork. Because you can have the footwork be in the post or you can have the footwork be on the perimeter. I remember this to a T. I was three years out of college.

And we were in Milwaukee. Kelvin Samson was an assistant coach there. I was going against Joe Alexander. I was trying to get a catch on the elbow. and for the life of me I tried to battle with him with my whole upper body. Calvin said, Butchy, what are you doing? Like, all you have to do is lock your top foot over his top foot and he won the battle, right?

Like, you don't have to do all this. And I mean, that's eight years of being a high level, like, and me the first time kind of like figuring it out. So for me, with all the kids that we work with, it all starts with the footwork. It all starts with the base because that footwork you use in the post is also the footwork. work you can use on the perimeter to get open. This isn't rocket science. It's hoops. But so I think at times

we need to simplify the game. And then if the player and the kid can show they're good enough to add the next step, we add it. But right now, every trainer in America wants to do five behind the backs between the legs. And half these kids aren't good enough, Doug.

You know that. Like, let's get them to the point where they're good enough and then add it versus saying, let's do five. between the backs and then have them struggle. And now all of a sudden it's just garbage basketball. So for me, it's just, it's simple. It's just a simple footwork. Let's start by teaching what a jump.

Do you know how many kids that I teach that don't know what a front pivot is versus a reverse pivot? Like it blows my mind. High school kids done. Well, this is, this is, I mean, sadly this is what I'm teaching on a nightly basis. Okay, so these guys are, Jordan Bowhannon's come back for, is it year seven? year six you're six

years and then your boy Brad Davidson yeah Brad Davidson's come back for I think he's year I think he's year five

I think did he red shirt here I think he played right away I know he had a shoulder I don't remember but I know he had a shoulder I think I don't know again here's

the thing I know I know Jbo a little bit and I know that he I know that he's all about name image and likeness Oh you sure is

I played with his brother, so I know. I know you did. I mean, the whole family right there all in that area. But I actually totally get it. Like if somebody, if Mike Boyton's like, hey, bro, we found out you got another year. You want a hoop? Like, yes, right? If it was you, if you had, and knowing what you know now about the true life of a professional basketball player,

what do you think about the idea of one more year in college? And granted, those guys aren't guys NBA. guys. Are there guys that can make money playing? Yes. What do you think of the decision for one more year for those guys? For those guys, I think it's good. Like, I mean, it's crazy, but like, Jordan Mohanna, what is he going to do?

Like, he'll go overseas, makes money for a couple years, and then he'll be done. Brad Davidson, same thing. Plus, they'd be miserable. You can't play at a place like Iowa and Wisconsin. It's all about, like, us. You represent your entire state, right? And then all of a sudden, like, you're going to go play in Claremont. Ferron in France for some coach it's like this game is he's a rival like I don't feel that rivalry

and it's just you like I told you like it took my first two spots I got released because I still was in the college mindset like right it's completely different so I'm glad for these guys like go play another year you're not leaving that much table you're maybe leaving 50,000 on table if you get your grad degree hey you've made it back in that now with Jordan what he wants with name image and likeness like I don't know don't agree with them on it. Like I played at the University of Wisconsin, right? How I got into BTN. So I called Coach Alvarez up. We had a meeting. I say, coach, I put the work and this isn't like, but can you help me just get a foot in the door and I'll do the rest? Just and that's what

happened. Now that value is more than the name, image, image, and likeness stuff. Like that value is way more important. And that's why I get upset with Jordan. It's like, Jordan, you better see the big picture, man, because right now, if you give you. you ruffle enough feathers like they might that door might not necessarily it's i i think it's the part where we we we're we so there's a bunch of parts that we've dismissed we also dismiss how hard it is to get into these schools to begin with right yeah yeah like we weren't athletes there's a lot like i wouldn't have gotten to nondon to begin with no chance um and then the rest of our lives you know you're attached to the school you went to which that's the curious thing about the transfers

is a lot of these guys, a lot of these guys like, okay, go back for your, go back for your alumni. Like, where are you, where's your home home? Right? Like, oh, no, no, I just, I played there four years, but I just want to do another year. Like, no, that's not how it is, bro. Like, we may say like, hey, man, you go kill it. God's plan, right? Hashtack God's plan.

Yep. But the reality is like, you're there for us or if you're somebody else. And then you go and play one season, you're there for six, seven, nine months. like again same thing um yeah i i i think it's it's it's a hard thing for these guys are going to figure out yeah i talked with richard petino about that he's like you know we've we had a couple of guys this was two years ago and he's like you know it's a it's a grant it's our graduation day it's our senior day but like he's only been with us for six six months so i mean exactly how's that senior day like it's not it's not it's not what you've built on um i mean do i like it i understand

if your coach leaves. I get that. But this year, the whole, like, what we have this year, I don't think it's good for college basketball. I really don't. Well, it's because, I think, and you and I know the reality of it is, like, college basketball isn't necessarily popular because of the players. It's because of the schools and the rivalries and the familiarity. And we do everything we can, our power to destroy parts of it, right? Where we, you know, now the leagues aren't the same, so you're not playing, like, I don't care how good Rutgers is. It still doesn't feel like the big 10 to have Rutgers playing Michigan. It just doesn't.

You know, Nebraska's got amazing facilities, right? And they do an amazing day. They want to be good so bad. But Nebraska against Ohio State is a foot, but in basketball, like, it's not a rival. Football is just because it's two sports. But I think it takes away from it. But anyway, well, listen, you've been great, unbelievable with your time. This is awesome.

It's fun. Yeah, no, I'm glad to reach. I'm glad we made it work because it's. And I think, I truthfully think the stuff you guys are doing in Appleton in terms of player development is awesome. And I'm going to try and send a group up so that you can whip him in shape.

Awesome, awesome. We'd love to have it. I appreciate your time too. I appreciate this. This was fun. And anytime you know that. Butchie, how can somebody get the information on your camps and your programs? Camps, yeah, just Brianbitch, basketball camps.com. It's pretty simple. I'm a pretty simple guy.

That's all it's got to be is just Brianbush basketball camps.com. And if everyone ever needs to get a hold of me, just Brianbuch basketball at gmail.com, we'll take care of everything that everybody needs. By the way, last thing, you should have played in Australia because I think Wisconsin's and Australians are the same people. They just want to go and kick somebody's ass in basketball and then go have a beer and tell stories about it, right?

Like they're very much, very similar. I've never met people from Wisconsin that I don't enjoy hanging out and have a conversation with. I've never met an Australian that I don't enjoy hanging out and have a conversation with. With that, I bid you a do. Thanks, dude. All right. Sounds good. Thanks.

I appreciate it. We'll see you guys. Thanks. All right. My thanks to Brian Butch, that was outstanding stuff. Really, I thought you'd like the Russian stories. I have more Russian stories I always share within it. More Israel stories and France stories I haven't shared either.

but I would I would just tell you this like look the stories fill your experience up and make it very very rich and there are teams you're going to join that if you stay on I think you'd have a semi-collegiate type of feel with but I'll also tell you that it can be a very difficult life can be a tough life to feel super comfortable living anyway hope you enjoyed that remember the Doug Gottlieb show is daily 3 to 6 Eastern 12 through Pacific make sure and download these things. There's a bunch of different good ones. Tremaine folks was last week. He was outstanding. I'm Doug Gottlie.

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