The Herd with Colin Cowherd - All Ball - Pt. 2: George Mason HC Kim English on Steph/LeBron Play-In, Buy-In, Transition to Coaching

Episode Date: May 21, 2021

In this episode, Doug concludes his two part interview with George Mason Head Basketball Coach Kim English by discussing the LeBron/Steph play-in thriller, when he finally bought into an unselfish philosophy as a player, his transition to coaching under Frank Haith at Tulsa, Tad Boyle at Colorado, Rick Barnes at Tennessee and his head coaching philosophy as he heads into his first year as the man at George Mason. Make sure you download, rate and subscribe here to get the latest All Ball Podcasts! Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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This is All Ball, where we tell stories where we learn about people. And if you listen to Part 1, you got to know Kim English, who's the new head coach at George Mason University. and a guy who grew up in Baltimore you're just tuning in you're like what was he talking about just go download listen to part one it was amazing I mean his his recall is crazy

crazy his story about overcoming his stutter also really really impressive and just his overall rise this is part two and you'll hear about Kim and how he rose so quickly

in the coaching profession to where now at 32 years old, he's a head coach at a place that's been to a Final Four in the last 15 years. Like it's, the whole thing is crazy. So we'll get to that in a second. I want to give you just a couple of quick thoughts.

When I watch basketball games, none of you like me, I learned something. Now, you know, I've always been this way watching Steph since he got to the NBA and maybe even in college,

where you're more surprised when he misses that when he makes, regardless of the difficulty of the, shot. But I think the Warriors, and not sure if they would have been there this year, had Clay not torn his Achilles tendon, obviously a lot of it depends upon Clay and coming back. But he'll have plenty of time off. If you look at Kevin Durant's comeback and you start to realize that while Clay is a great athlete and a great shooter and needs that balance and that pushoff, it's not like he's John Morant or one of these absolute athletic freaks where, you're a great shooter. And

if he loses a half step because of the Achilles and the knee, it kills him. I want you to take a second, take a breath, and realize that the Warriors are close. Next year, Wiseman will be a second year player. He only played three games in college. He had no summer league. He had a very limited training camp. And he didn't have Clay Thompson. I think Jordan Poole has a chance to be a tremendous player.

I don't know if Wiggins, especially with his contract, is the end-all-be-all, but if Wiggins is their fourth best player, that's a pretty good team. And that's with Weissman as their fifth best player. Of course, a lot of it depends upon Clay and what he comes back at. The other thing is, can we say something about the conditioning of Steph Curry? To move like that for as long as he, like the off-the-ball movement is only incredible, But to do it and make shots means you have to be an unbelievable physical condition, which he is. I mean, something like, look, LeBron obviously is as well, but I think it's more difficult,

more difficult when you're moving off the ball with speed, quickness, the physicality of the NBA. If I was going to make one adjustment, one adjustment, or point out one thing that I think the Warriors could have done when they're down three points. Look, you nearly, Steph nearly got a look passing and then cutting off of Draymond Green. But ask anybody in the NBA and they'll tell you that the hardest time guarding Steph Curry is when he doesn't have the ball because he can't see him. And when they needed a bucket, he brought the ball at the floor, which allows the defense to set and know where he is. So I think if there were two adjustments that Steve Kerr could have made, one would be have something in the arsenal for that very time of. the game where Steph doesn't have the ball and then he works to get it.

I mean, look, it was a terrible, there was a terrible moving screen call on Draymond Green. I mean, I don't, I don't care how hard he fouled LeBron James. He's doubly punitive if that's some sort of makeup or an additional call on Draymond because one of the Lakers took a dive.

The other one, though, is with 2.2 seconds to go when they call a timeout and they run a play, Andrew Wiggins is wide open in the weak side corner. Of course, in front of the Lakers bench, that's a hard pass to make. But you have one of the great passing big men in the history of the league in Draymond Green.

And he's a non-threat to shoot the basketball. So basically you have two options here as I see it. One, tell Draymond to shoot when you're down three because he's going to be wide open or two, have Draymond pass the ball in bounds. And he likely would have seen Andrew Wiggins wide open on the weak side. I still like the Lakers, even though they didn't play well, to advance past the Phoenix Suns.

I'll get you some more picks once we have the brackets all set. And if you don't see the Warriors getting better, I can't help you. Jordan Poole's a player now. Wiseman's going to get better. If Clay comes back in any sort of form close to Clay Thompson in the past, which a lot, missing two years and two catastrophic injuries, I think the Warriors can be right there and competitive next year for the entire thing. You can check out the Doug Gottlieb show daily 3 to 6 Eastern 123 Pacific, Fox SportsRata.com,

iHeartRadio app, SiriusXM213. Without further ado, let's get to part two of my discussion with Kim English. Yeah, actually, you know what? I want to start with something that I'm guessing you do that I do. I watch basketball. I try and learn something from every time I watch basketball. Did you stay up and watch the liquor game last night? I did.

I did. Give me a takeaway. Just, I mean. honestly, the start of the game was, I guess, really impactful to me. You know, I tweeted it. You know, I tweeted it to young players. I said, you know, oftentimes I've been on teams that, you know, weren't great, like I've coached teams that weren't great three-point shooting teams.

I've said like in staff meetings before, I think we would be a better shooting team if we were a better passing team. And at the start of that game, just the way the ball was flying around for Golden State, I mean, and Baysmore and, and Tuscano Anderson and Steph, all of their catches were so clean and great looks and led to makes. And, you know, that's why they jumped up. But I was kind of in and out of the game. Actually, I just got home from working out. So I actually ran into a shower at halftime, and I came back and I was texting with our guys. kind of clipping stuff up on my laptop so i was kind of in and out of the game in the second

half i watched the last two minutes locked in really um it's funny i i do with with kids and i would i would do it with a college team too i do this thing i call it you know you know everybody knows what the golden rule is right do you want to others you want done it unto you yeah and i think passing is the same yeah you know is that you demand you do like do you want to pass at your knees you want to pass in the pocket right it's everything it's everything and it's everything in basketball, everything. You know, you, everything, as far as your teammate. You know, at Tennessee, we had this saying called Enom.

It's not about me. And, you know, the spurs, you know, Greg Popovich says, you know, to be a spur, you have to get over yourself, understanding it's not about you. And the ironic thing about that is if you can truly get over yourself and if you can really live by the creed, it's not about me. You would then have.

have 14 other guys only thinking about you. All your teammates are worried about your success. So it's, it's, it's everything in our game and trying to, I think that's that is basketball Nirvana when you can get that accomplished. But it's, it's interesting though, because when you think back to when you're a player, like I was an incredibly unselfish player, but still very much in my own head about my own game, right? It's why I think you can be great at this because you're not so far removed that you don't remember all the things going on outside or even in your brain. And yet you're trying to during that, during those 40 minutes, trying to, to not make it about you.

You got to speak those things to power. And it's, I guess that is a, it is, that has been a cool thing. being a young coach. Like, I know exactly what they're thinking when they're thinking it. Like, you know, I've walked in a locker room after we won a game. And one of our top six players had a terrible game. And I see him kind of pouting in the locker room after a win. Address it right then.

Hey, look, man, on this team, we win a game. I don't care if you fake it. You better fake it in his locker room and act happy. And I understand performance matters, but we won this game. We won this game. So when you get in your car or back of your dorm and you talk to your dad,

you know, part of my language, bitch and moan then. Like not in this locker room. Yeah. Because that stuff leads to really bad teams. Because now what's going to happen the next game when the kid who played well

this game plays bad, but we won, but you played good. Like I want every, and every single, thing you do, man, like when our teams together, it's not about you. Now, like, it's times in basketball, you have to be selfish as an individual and in a team. Like, you know, you need to be selfish. You need to want to make every single free throw you shoot. You can be selfish going for rebounds.

I want you to be selfish. You know, if you want to be selfish and you think you're our best defender, you want to guard the other team's best guy, be selfish. Be selfish as an individual. Be selfish. and want to have a good shooting percentage. Getting the gym on your own, work on your game. Like, be dedicated to your craft. But when we come together as a team, you have to let that go. And I've lived it. I've lived it.

I was selfish. I had a, you know, I had an agenda my junior year in college. I wanted to score and I thought I could, because I was on draft boards after my sophomore year. I thought I could go. And I had a terrible year, 10 points per game, bad percentages, bad percentages. And going into my last year, I let all that stuff go. I let all that stuff go.

And it was remarkable, like, the success I had because your teammates know it. Your teammates know if you're only worried about yourself. You know, and your teammates also know if, like, I had a thing. If I ever, ever went to a teammate to, like, coach him during the game, I never made it about me. I would always say, hey, man, when you open got to shoot that, hey, bro, if you run hard, I can hit you on that, you know, that kick to get to the corner. Hey, bro, look for Ricardo when he's rolling. Like, they're not tagging him.

They're staying with me on my field behind. Like, look for Ricardo, the rolls open. Like, so every time I went to my team, it was only about them, never about me. What happened was Phil and Mike and Marcus, like, they, Steve Moore, like, they started to want to see my success. And I want that to be realized on our teams here. I'll tell you one other thing I saw is in Caruso's not a good shooter. I know he's become a good enough shooter

to where they can play him, but he's an unbelievable cutter. Just an unbelievable cutter. And I don't know if people understand how valuable that is. And within what I try and teach kids to do in terms of, it's again, it's about selflessness. When you cut, even if you're not open,

not only does the defender, he can't pay attention to the ball, but then there's usually a secondary defender that has to help. So while that's like a selfish act really for Caruso to go like, hey, I can't really shoot you here. I'm kind of open, but not open if I cut. Now a sudden everything else opens up. It's a selfish because if I cut and they don't guard me, I get the ball move, but it's really unselfish because it opens up everything for everybody else.

Yeah. I mean, he's at 40 this year from three, which is great. Caruso is, but yeah, no. It's crazy that, like, late in the game, he shot the side of the backboard on a three, right? Like, he's impactful, man. He's impactful. I mean, that cut he made one of the biggest plays in the game.

It was when LeBron came off that middle ball screen, going on the right, and LeBron kind of jumped up. And, I mean, it was a drive, but I kind of look at that as a cut. You know, he caught it on a run. Yes. I called a go catch. Like, if you're not, you know, you are running before you catch the ball, and he kind of broke through and he dumped it off to AD.

Yeah. Like, I look at that as a cut. Kyle Singler, I play with it in Detroit was like that. I mean, just everyone wanted to play with them. You know, we signed a kid that's coming here to George Mason, Devante Gaines from Tennessee, where, you know, if you look at his stats at Tennessee, you won't see the impact. But watch him in practice every day.

You can really see the impact. And cutting is something that he does really well. Okay. So when we last talked, he talked about sending scatterports for two years. to Frank Hath and Tulsa about and just completely detailed, going through synergy. Okay, so your first year, you hang it up. What's it like to now be a coach, to be on staff your first year?

That was great. It was great. And I felt like I was back in a leak. And I felt like I was in a new environment. And I get most excited in environments where I feel like I'm learning. and I was just soaking it all up and I was, you know, I was taking myself my mind back into a college state,

you know, playing pro for three years, not long, but, you know, taking myself back to the college game, relearning the college game, the rules, the shot clock had changed from 35 to 30 my first year back coaching in college. So it was great. It was an awesome experience to learn from Coach Hayth and Coach Felton and Mike Schwartz

was there. Who, give me, give me, and Terry who was on the staff because I remember it being

Dave Lato. Dave Lato had just left. Mike Schwartz came from Fresno State who was there for a year. He was, and I know Schwartz he was at Texas

as a walk-on when I was playing, right? Yeah, he actually played in that game they beat you guys in the, or you guys beat them where they were going to,

they were going to win the Big 12 championship, but you guys beat them, I think, in 99 maybe, or 2000. It was a game. In the,

The tournament. No, no, no. It was regular season. You guys lost that game? Okay, well, he talked about it, whatever. But yeah, so Mike Schwartz was there. Dennis Felton was there. Shea Seals, who was a great player at Tulsa, was there, and obviously, Coach Hay.

So, okay, but what's that like in terms of the coach's office and a meeting, right? Like you're not only a bright guy, but you played in the NBA. You played Frank. then you have other guys that have been doing it longer. I think the question is like, how do you contain your enthusiasm? How do you, because like now you're low man on the pecking pecking order. Yeah, it's cool. See, I don't need, like I have no ego when it comes to that stuff.

And I make it known. And it's, I think it's so important in college basketball stats because, you know, so many people are in this business for the wrong reason. So many people are in this business together. get ahead. So many people in this business to make money to like serve their own self-serving interests, like push their recruit ahead. But like it was known right away that I cared about none of that. All I cared about was us being the best team we could possibly be and Frank Cave having as much success as he could possibly have. Like that was it. That was it. And I thought that

Tulsa was the best job in the country. I wasn't looking for another job. I wouldn't, Like, you know, funny story, a coach at the Peach Jam came up to me after my first year at Tulsa and asked me if I was interested in going to a program that's been in the final four multiple times in the last few years. And like I was at Tulsa and like this, I said no. I said, no, I'm good. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. others say it's unleashing human potential.

Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win.

Yep, that's me. Clipper Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skisks. hits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated.

One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to The Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Hey, I'm Jared Adano. You might know me as that loud guy who yells out, help on the internet. Somebody, please!

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We're becoming more individualized, but we actually need people in connection. If you've been searching for a soft place to land while doing the work to become whole, this podcast is for you to hear more. Listen to deeply well with Debbie Brown from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Like, I just, I was in a learning state and I was happy. I didn't, and my mind didn't understand about advancement in the business and I was good. Like, like, so I was just entrenched in making our players as good as they could be, making our program as good as it can be, helping coach Hafe have, have it, have as have as much success as he could have. And so I didn't even care about where my rank was within the staff. If I saw something, I said something.

You know, if I seen something in the player, I went to that player. You know, if I did, if I disagree with someone in the staff. staff meeting, I said it. If I didn't like your recruit, I would say it. If I did like your recruit, I would say it. It was, it was great honesty and transparency. And, you know, that's what I've tried to create on every staff I've been on and I want to create here at Mason. Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in the nation. Catch all of our shows at Fox SportsRadio.com. And within the IHeart Radio app, search FSR to listen live. When was the last time you seriously considered your dream. Did something never thought you would do. How about live the van life in a totally customized

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Find a forest near you and start exploring at Discovertheforest.org. Brought to you by the United States Forest Service and the Ad Council. What grows in the forest? Trees? Sure. Know what else grows in the forest? Our imagination, our sense of wonder, and our family bonds grow too.

Because when we disconnect from this and connect with this, we reconnect with each other. The forest is closer than you think. Find a forest near you and start exploring at Discovertheforest.org. Brought to you by the United States Forest Service and the Ad Council. You know, when when I finished playing for Coach Sutton, our relationship changed and evolved. It got better. You know, it was way more open and way more frank in conversation. And he was a pretty honest coach to play for.

But what was that like for you with Frank? Because you had played for Frank. We had talked about how he recruited you back to Miami way back in the day. You only played for him for a year. Now what is it like? What was the difference like in being part of his staff? It was amazing. It was amazing.

We had a great relationship when I was a player. I mean, we would sit up at night on the phone with each other as a collegian, and we would watch games. I remember watching the Miami Heat with him, and the heat ran a play to get Chris Bosch like a pick and pop opportunity. I was like, man, that'd be great. And I like, he said, he said shoot it to me. So I like got up with my phone and videoed it. and I sent it to him that night and he put it in the next day in practice. And we just had a great connection.

And I got to see that, you know, even back when he was at Miami with another guy from Baltimore, you know, Jack McClinton, he and Jack had that connection that was unreal. And when I became a coach, it just got better because we spoke the same language. We had some of the same experiences. Like, you know, I was, we were with each other in some very, very tough. moments. Like, and that, you can never replace that. I mean, we were up 19 points in Fog Island Fieldhouse to win the Big 12 regular season championship and we lost that game. Like that was a crushing loss. We lost, we were 30 and four and we lost as a two seed in Norfolk State. Like,

that was a crushing loss. We experienced some great wins together, winning a Big 12 championship, tournament championship, you know, beating Baylor three times, beating Texas three. times, like some great experiences together. So we just had a bond that was special. And what I told him was, and I was serious at this moment, I wanted for him what Coach Kay had at Duke, seeing Nate James and John Shire and Chris Carrow or Steve Wojo or all his former players as assistant coach.

Like, I wanted that for him, that bond and that connection. And, you know, obviously I moved on and my career took me a different past. But we had and still had. have an incredible relationship. I still call him and talk about his team and give him my thoughts. And, you know, I still try to help them recruit players whenever I can, you know, if I know. I don't know if you remember this. I don't even remember this, but, um, uh, Shaq Harrison, okay. So your first year there and I come do a game. And I was like, it wasn't Shaq Harrison, like a really good football player? Yeah, he was going to go to, uh, he's going to go to Kansas play football.

high school, Big 12 football. Right. And you're like, I was like, he should play football. And you're like, no, he should play basketball. He'll play in the NBA. And I was like, come, man. Yeah. What did you see in him?

I saw in Shaq Harrison what I saw in the NBA. Outside of talent, outside of ridiculous talent, like the freaks, outside of this talented freaks, I saw in Shaq what translated to a long career in a little. league incredible toughness, incredible competitiveness, and an incredible work ethic. If you have those three things, the way the game is going right now, your toughness and competitiveness can spur you into a career. Like, guys are getting drafted because they have a high motor. Like, guys are getting picked up from over, I mean, Javon Carter, the kid to Scott O'Anderson, like, Draymond Green, and obviously Draymond's IQ is ridiculous,

but his toughness and his competitiveness are so elite. And Shaq had the work ethic. You know, he had the work ethic to go with it. He was our hardest worker. He was our toughest player. He was our most competitive. I mean, Shaq were getting an argument with one of our, got with one of his teammates and his teammates like complaining about something.

And Shaq would say, shut the F up. I've never lost a sprint. I've never lost a sprint since I've been here. And I was just like, yeah. Like, yeah, like think of the last dance clip of Michael Jordan running at the Burdo Center. And who was the first one in those sprints? Like he was. Like I got, I can say whatever I need to say on his team.

I've never lost a sprint. Beat me in a sprint and in talk. Like, so he just had that chippiness and edge to him. I text Shaq like once a week still. I just text them and say, make sure you know the first one in the last one to leave. Like every, I wish I had that for me when I was in the league. So I want to remind me to make sure. you're the hardest worker in that organization every day.

How did the Colorado thing happen? You know, again, not looking for a job. I mean, was just at an AAU event and it was in the spring. And I like to sit by myself when I'm out, like recruiting kids in the summer. Because it's just, it can be a distraction being around the coaches that haven't seen each other all year. They're talking to each other on their phone.

Like, no one's watching games. So I'll go sit alone. You know, sometimes I do have a friend I want to sit next to, you know, but if I don't have a guy, I'll go sit by myself. And Coach Boyle, nice shirt, man, barly, nice hoodie, barley design. I love it. I'd go sit alone. And Coach Boyle, you know, they recruit very pointedly at Colorado. So sometimes if he didn't have a kid to see it a game, he later told me he would just watch assistant coaches.

he would just look and see like which assistants are working and I was sitting by myself it was a Houston Hoops versus I think Nike Pro Skills Dallas Pro Skills game now sitting by myself watching a big kid that we were involved with

and he just came and sat next to me and we just sat for one half of basketball and like talk basketball like what do you think they're going to do out of this time up I know they've got to take away that kid well this ref man he's ready to go home. We just talked basketball for one half of basketball.

Literally, that was it. Said goodbye. I played against them for one season. They were in a Big 12. His first year at Colorado was my junior year at Missouri. That was it. Left that event in April at Boo Williams. Didn't have his number.

Didn't think of nothing. Fast forward to July. So the job season is over. This is July. It's the end. I'm at the last event in Atlanta. And I'm sitting there watching a game again on the bleacher. And Beano Ransom and Mark Turgeon from Maryland were next to me.

I didn't know this, but Terge and Boyle were high school teammates at Kansas. That understells it. I mean, I'm sure you knew this. But Tad was in private business. He was in private sector. Yeah, yeah. Oh, I know. He was out of it.

And Turg is like, you got to come coach. Yeah. He brought him to Oregon. And then he left Oregon and go to Jerry Green with Tennessee. And then he left Tennessee. go to Jacksonville State with Terge. And so they're their best friends. They're best friends.

And I kind of was, said, what up? Beano's from Baltimore. So I was kind of talking to Beano a little bit. And I said, what up, Turch? Turch said, what up, man? And he said, Tad Boy was going to hire you. And I looked at him like, what? And I just like, kind of shook my head.

I didn't make sense. I was like, whatever. Like, Tad doesn't even have a job. Like, what are you talking about? He said, yeah, man, Ted loves you. And I like, oh, well, nice, man. He's a great guy. And that was it.

Didn't think of it of it. So it wasn't the last weekend. Actually, it was the middle weekend. There was one more weekend in Vegas because I go to Vegas. I'm at an event. Again, I'm standing on the side of a bleacher by myself. Tad happened to be in a back row. And Tad taps me and said, hey, what up, Kim?

And he says, is this still your number? And I was like, yep, that's still my number. I got the same number since seventh grade. And I was like, yep. And he's like, all right, cool, man. Good seeing you. I was like, nice seeing you, too. And then I get back to.

to Tulsa, it's August. It's our time to like relax a little bit for a couple weeks after the July grind. And I get a call from Coach Hath saying Tad Boyle just called, he asked to speak to you. He has a position open. He thinks John Pree-Low is going to get San Jose State. And he was like, wow. So, so tag called me. It was my first time being alone with my April,

May, June, July, August, four-month-old daughter. I was alone with her in Tulsa. And I put her to sleep, talked to Tad, talked about coming to Colorado, and I told him no. Like, I was good. I recruited Darian Jackson and Jariah Horn and Elijah joined. I recruited these really good future cornerstones to the Tulsa program. And I wanted to coach him. And I said, no, thanks for no thanks. And I went to sleep and tornadoes never hit Tulsa, like almost. never like because it's the Arkansas river it's hilly they just they they usually revert and go to like northern Oklahoma a tornado dropped down in Tulsa that night and like ravaged my neighborhood

like ravaged like shopping centers houses my neighbors houses what what neighborhood what part town I lived in midtown I lived in like 51st and Sheridan around there from just just on the on the poor side of midtown and uh but my house was untouched my house was untouched with my four-month-old baby. And I wake up the next morning, like, go outside, like, what? And I get a text from Tad said, any second thoughts? And I'm kidding you not. If it wasn't for the tornado, I would have said, no, I'm good, man.

Thanks. Good luck with your search. I was ready to help Kim Paulino try to get the job. I text back because of the tornado. I said, actually, I am having some second thoughts. That happened that happened to Scott Brooks. I don't know if you know that. So when Scotty was before his last year in Oklahoma City,

his wife was home and they were maybe in the playoffs and there was a bad tornado. And they were in the basement like all night. And she was like, I'm out. I'm out. And so their last year they moved to Orange County where he had a house because they couldn't, They couldn't do the tornadoes. And honestly, if it wasn't a tornado that night, I would have probably maybe still been at the University of Tulsa right now.

Did you, did you know, did Frank talk about the race riots, Black Wall Street, when you're out to you? We spoke of, I didn't know about it. I knew about it before I got there. I got more intimate with the, you know, the story and the history of that terrorism and those riots. and that mass murder that took place there. So, yeah, it kind of in the midst of more, you know,

race violence in the country of George Floyd and Amad Aubrey and, you know, and, you know, when that stuff started to become more prevalent and we saw it more, what happened in Tulsa and I think the 100-year anniversary just came up. So over the last few years, it's become more of a topic. I knew about it. I would drive around. I mean, I honestly, I used to tell the story to any of my family or friends

that used to come into Tulsa. Like I used to show them this is, this was Black Wall Street, this incredibly booming area right now. Like, you know, we owned and operated it. And, you know, we're thriving. It's really interesting because, in Tulsa, to you, has had successful, been a launching point for a bunch of successful black coaches,

right? I mean, four or five. I mean, obviously, I mean, Tubby was amazing in terms of the staff there. Craig Robinson was there. Nolan was, Nolan was there. Frank. Coaches in general. Coaches in general, but yeah, black coaches for sure. But it's, it's just, it's very interesting that there's been a tremendous amount of diversity at Tulsa basketball specifically. And yet here's this kind of super ugly history that sometimes gets mentioned, sometimes doesn't get mentioned. It's like it and I just I do wonder what it's like to walk around as black man as a coach at Tulsa knowing this exists and and and like how you how you process that. Well, I would say I wouldn't say it exists at that level. I mean, that was a very radical level. It was a hundred years ago. Obviously racism still exists. It's more systemic. It's more covert. And that was a very overt form of race. You know, what happened in whatever 1921 it was in Tulsa, 1920.

But yeah, I'd say that it's just walking around Tulsa, it's a lot different than other places in the Deep South. It's not as strong. I mean, Booker T. Washington High School is in East North Tulsa. It's in North Tulsa. And it's a historically black high school. It used to be a segregated black high school, but it is, it's one of the most well-performing high schools in America. And white kids from all over Tulsa, Jenks, affluent neighborhoods in Tulsa drive to get educated at Booker T. Washington. So there's some integration in Tulsa that I thought was pretty cool, even with the Native American culture, you know, in Catusa and Broken Arrow.

I really enjoy my time in Tulsa. Okay, so you get to, you get to Boulder. Boulder is a different spot now. Yeah, it is. Different spot. It is. What was that like for you? You know, it was great. It was really cool.

It was different. I never lived out west. It was beautiful. It is beautiful. Seeing the flat irons and the Rockies and the amazing weather, the sun. and, you know, the, it was great. It was a great mix of college town plus city. You have Boulder and 23 miles away, you have Denver.

So I lived in the middle. I lived in Brumfield. Again, didn't have enough money to live in Boulder. Colorado was very expensive. Didn't want to live that far in Denver, so I lived in the middle. And that was great. What's tad like?

He, you know, I learned so much from each coach. From Frank, it was a, I feel like he's a really, really, really smart offensive coach. And the confidence that he gives to his players is incredible. With Tad, Tad has an ability, man, and it's real. And it's like, as an assistant, you're like, come on, man. Like, let's go. We got to be more aggressive. He thinks that there is not a better job in America in the University of Colorado at Boulder.

Like if a kid told Tad Boyle that he was going to confront. Kentucky or Duke. Sorry, coach. I made my decision. I'm going to UCLA, Kentucky or Duke, Colorado's out. He would look at that kid like the kid was a fool. He thinks Colorado is the best job in America. And that conviction and the job, what I've discovered,

shine through in his recruiting. Because when he's talking to kids and parents, they really believe what he's saying. It shined through in his basketball coaching. When we're preparing for a game and he's giving a speech at halftime or we're scouting, players fill it how much he believes this place can be special. And it is special. It shines through and everything he does. You know, every single day, Tad Boyle wakes up. He's thinking, what can I do

to make Colorado basketball a champion? And he's a really good basketball coach as well. What is it, how is style-wise, what's unique about how his teams play? Very simple, like, simple. What I, would I realize, you know, Nate Thomason, who came with me here from Colorado, Nate likes to say simplicity is brilliance. Tad is a very simple coach. And it is cool. I'm actually, I was texting with Coach Bennett the other day, and he actually sent me a biblical reference to it. It was about simplicity, like how we need to practice. simplicity. And that's Ted. And, you know, what it becomes is it becomes routine. It becomes routine. It's a lot what you hear Belichick and Saban talk about, you know, the routine of every day, the

monotony of everyday work. And his best teams, when they're clicking, it's really cool to see. Their defense is sound. Their offense is simple and effective. Yeah, my brother worked for Mike Montgomery for six years. And he used. to say simplicity and execution. That's it. What's the secret to their success? Simplicity and execution. Why'd you go to Tennessee?

Again, wasn't looking. I was actually at the Final Four. I was, I mean, I'm very fortunate in my career. I mean, I was actually at the Black Coaches Association, like banquet. We're sitting there. I got a call from, from Mike. Mike Schwartz and he says, Rob Lanier is taking Georgia State where you want to come to Tennessee. And I said, let's do it.

That was the thought process. That was it. They had just come off an incredible season. They were fresh in my mind watching them in the Sweet 16 against Purdue. I love the way they played. Coach Barnes and I had gotten close over the last four years. When I got to Tulsa, you know, obviously he coached against me in a big 12. Frank worked for him at Texas.

Mike played for him at Texas. It was a GA for him. It was his first graduate assistant at Texas. Out on the road in the summers, Coach Barnes and I would go to have lunch and dinner with Mike or Coach Hath. And so we kind of got in a good relationship and rapport. And he called and said, let's do it. And Tennessee almost turned to UCLA,

which was going to be like, which I didn't feel as good about. I wasn't, I did not want to leave Colorado for the same. league. And we had just beat up on UCLA. We beat them four straight times. So I really wasn't like in all of the program at the moment. You know, and, but what is that what is that like to be sitting there and you're like you did you like, do you know all these things that are going on? I know that you. Yeah, I'm aware the UCLA thing is going on. And, you know, it was, you know, he wanted me to go with them either way. And I, I know, told him I would have went with them either way, but I really, in the back of my mind,

I was happy, I was sold on Tennessee. I didn't feel good about sitting on the opposite bench of McKinley Wright, Tyler Bay, and Deshawn Schwartz, like, respectively and privately. Like, so I was happy that it was Tennessee. I do want to talk about McKinley, right, because anybody who's watched him, and then you, even before you know his personal story, you're like, I love watching that kid play basketball. From the first, when was the first time you saw McKinney, right?

August when I got there right before they went on a foreign tour. Okay. So you get there. And did you, did you know who, did you know anything about it? No, never, no, no, never, never, never. First impression was what? Shaquille Harrison with more skill, a little smaller, a little less athletic, but he should kill Harrison from a heart standpoint and a competitive standpoint.

I didn't know about his work ethic at the first time I seen him, but and in a work standpoint. He's going to make it. Like he is, he's Jemir Nelson. He's Terrell Brandon. He is, he's going to have a career in the league, you know. Agreed. Totally agree.

I love watching him play basketball and run a team and lead a team. He's, he's awesome. Yeah, I bet a point guard. You're a true point guy. I bet you would like to see him, you know, operate. Oh, dude, I, I, seriously, I watch Colorado games just to watch him, watch him play. He's that, he's that enjoyable. Okay.

So you get to Tennessee and they come off. this this great year. Now, for people who don't know Rick, Rick is hilarious, very sarcastic, like very sarcastic. And just, I mean,

like a super interesting personality where when I was in the league, like I kind of didn't, I didn't like him. Like I thought he was so, he was like, he was so sarcastic on the sidelines. Like I would,

I'd always, I'd sometimes chirped to the posing bench. He'd say some shit to me. And then I started covering him, like, I didn't know if he didn't like me or whatever. And then he invited me to dinner one time. I was doing a Texas game. And I just, I laughed the whole time. I was like in.

And then one time after the final four in Dallas, I text him like, hey, we're going to stay. We're thinking about coming down to Austin. He's like, tell him when you show up and tell him when you leave and promise me that you'll have breakfast with me one morning. I said, okay. And he got us a room at the W. and he gave me all these restaurants to go to. We went to like every restaurant was good. He gave me where to do yoga.

He's an amazing dude. Okay, so you move into Knoxville. He decides not to go to UCLA. What's your experience like? I remember the Purdue Tennessee game of 2019 and a sweet 16. And I remember texting with McKinley and Deshaun because we had just got, we had lost in the quarterfinals in the NIT to Texas. And Texas played at a speed that.

We hadn't seen in the Pact 12 that season. They just played at a different pace and tempo, which I know it's the tempo and pace of a big 12. It's the Big 12. But I hadn't seen it. That speed, that pace for four years. And I told our team, they'll go back and watch that Purdue Tennessee game. Before I knew anything about Tennessee, I was going. And when I got to Tennessee, I realized my first practice why the speed,

and tempo was the way it was. What is that? It made a huge impact. It's because Coach Barnes and that staff demands it every single rep. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential.

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It was my main emphasis, our spring at George Mason, was I got to get these guys playing at that speed. playing at that's where it. The only, like, this spring at George Mason wasn't about what we did. It was all about how we did things. Like, like, and I told all of my assistant coaches, if it ain't hard enough, fast enough, strong enough, stop and make them do it again. Like, we are going to stop and do it until it's, so I've told the guys, pass the ball

as hard as you can. Like every single pass, every single chest pass, try to knock a guy over. cut so hard you trip and fall like drive the ball so hard you fall into the wall like run every single time as hard as you can run so run as hard as you can cut as hard as you can cut drive as hard you can drive pass as hard as you can pass like that was our spring just and it looks sloppy it look crazy at times guys were falling guys were missing passes but it was like I was like good like they got to get to the level that I'm used to, that I'm accustomed to, you know, because when it's done right, it can be overwhelming.

You know, our tempo and our pace, when we were right at Tennessee, overwhelmed teams. And I felt it as a player at Missouri, and we're going to get that level of speed and execution here at Mason. This last year at Tennessee, you had two super, super talented young guards. What was it like to work with Jay McKeon? It was great. You know, I feel like they got shortchanged, like every elite freshman in the country this year,

from Kentucky, Duke, to us. I mean, very few, I mean, what, Kate Cunningham, very few freshmen had great success this year, like from a winning and playing standpoint. Like those guys, we won. I mean, we were a tournament team. They played well, but it wasn't at the level it should have. We could have had a full summer with them,

eight weeks of four hours a week, if we could have had a real fall and an inter squad scrimmage, oh, I mean a real scrimmage, you know, at Tennessee we scrimmaged Davidson every year. If we could have had 12 non-conference games with those guys, it would have been so much more special than it was. You know, they had a summer of us coaching them from the balcony.

Like, you know, we couldn't, you know, we had to think about social distance and practice. And we couldn't. It just, it was disappointing because I think those guys are, I mean, I won't coach guys as talented as that much in my career. So it was great to see their greatness in games and in days in practice, especially Keon. But I kind of am disappointed that COVID happened. And it didn't get to be the development in the culture that we usually have at Tennessee. Get right to the romance and find the way to wow. This is. valentines with 1 800 flowers.com.

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Visit nhtsa.gov slash the right seat. Brought to you by Netsa and the right seat. Brought to you by Mnza and the Ad Council. Okay, so COVID hits, the world shuts down. Okay, stops. What are you doing? It was, man, you just, I got in a routine. I got up, I had days with my daughters,

play with them all day, which was great to get to spend that much time with my girls. I watched the news all day. go outside. And I would talk to Coach Barnes, talk to our players. We just try to make little like Zoom projects. We do like Zoom film sessions with our current players. Tried to recruit as best we could,

you know, to finish up our 2021 class, our 2021 class, yeah. That was Kennedy Chandler. You know, we were still recruiting, Paulo Bank Carroll pretty hard at that time. No, it was, it was, It was very surreal.

It was scary, you know, from a standpoint of not knowing when this was going to end, not knowing if college basketball was going to still be a thing. You know, and then finally we got sports again. You know, finally we got sports again, and that kind of made things a little bit better, back to normal. Okay, so how did the George Mason thing come back? You know, it's always been a job that I've kind of looked at as if there was ever an opportunity, I would do anything I could to get it, to get involved. And from the moment it opened, it was very fortunate that there was mutual interest.

And we spoke. Coach Barnes actually got his start here as a 32-year-old head coach. And so there was a connection there and that really excited him. And when I spoke to the athletic director of Brad Edwards, who played in the NFL with a Super Bowl championship ring, when I spoke to the president, Dr. Greg Washington, hearing the alignment between those guys, hearing Dr. Washington's under, excuse me, hearing Dr. Washington's understanding of how important intercollegiate athletics and especially basketball is, it really got me excited. And then once I heard that from them, it just became me letting them know that I was ready to lead, letting them hear my basketball plan and my vision for this program and how we're going to get it done. So yeah. So what is the vision? What is the, like what's the step-by-step process? You get the, okay, let's start with this.

You get to, first of all, you get the job. Who called you and told you got the job? The athletic director. Okay. So he calls you. And at the time somebody tells, this is, this is a question. I just, does he, does he, did you discuss salary before? Did you go like, I've never, I've never, I've never, any job I've had, not Tulsa, not any job.

I mean, planned professionally, I've never, ever one time asked with the money. I found out what my salary was when I looked at my contract when I was here. Okay. So you said, you said, you want the job? Do you say you have the job? Like what's that conversation? Now, Brad was in talks with with CAA. Yeah.

He was with Evan Daniels, Jimmy Sexton. He was talking to those guys. They talk numbers. Again, I let those guys know it was not about money for me. So he called me. You know, he had a great talk with the president the day before. I talked with the deputy AD, Dr. Debbie Corbado, who was spectacular. And he called me.

I was driving back to Knoxville from Missouri. And he said, are you ready to do this? And I said, absolutely. And he said, all, let's keep it on the low. So I couldn't say anything. And yeah, got right to it. Got off the phone with him. And I called the guys that I would want to come with me, my staff, and told them.

All right. So this may cause some staff dissension. Who is the first call? Nate Thomason. He kind of known. I was involved with another job before. It was a power five job I was involved with. Nate knew.

Nate's one of my closest friends in the business. Played against each other in prep school, played against each other in the Big 12, worked with him in Colorado. He's Australian. And the colors of the boomers are green and gold. So we were in the bubble, but both of us were in the bubble.

They were still playing. We got bumped in the first round. Oregon State played thanks to your brothers, recruiting. We were, but he knew I was involved with it the whole time. And he says, all right, I'm going to lock into Georgetown and in Florida State. He said, just if it happens, just text me green and gold. And I could probably find it. I just text him in like all caps. I said green and gold. If like a million explanation points like green and gold, the color of the boomers and the color of George Mason basketball. So he was the first one I called. Okay, so when you're putting together pieces, is it about guys you're close with that you trust? Or you're like, all right, well, I get Nate. And Nate does this and he's international. And then I got this guy.

He's Baltimore. How did you decide to put together the staff? Yeah. For me, it's about integrity, intelligence, and work ethic. Like, if I'm close to you or not. Like, if I know you're good, if I know people around me that I do, I have to, I have to know people around you. I don't have to know you, but I have to know people around you that can vouch for your integrity. I can find out in a second if someone's good and if they work hard, if they're intelligent.

So, I mean, my staff is that. I mean, Nate Thomason, I think, will be an NBA head coach one day, brilliant, really good recruiter, domestically and internationally. I mean, Colorado's recruiting class is eighth in the nation this year, and Nate had a big part in that. Coaches, he's a coach's kid. He's super sharp, smart, nose a guy. game. You know, Dennis Felton, who I got to work with intimately at Tulsa is bright.

I mean, been in a long time. He's like your old head. He is your old head. Like I know you trust him and respect him, but he's, but he also. No, I trust him and respect him. He built a monster. Integrity, what they have, you know, like. He built a mid-major monster at Western Kentucky.

And a great person, you know, I wanted to have someone from the area. but I wasn't going to just get some random person from the area that I didn't trust deeply. And so I was actually talking to a lot of guys from the area that really good candidates that I really, really liked and seriously considering. But when I got here and sat down with DeWain Simpkins, it turned into, it changed from me like saying, oh, I'll retain them. Like, oh, I'll just keep them. It turned into I really, really, really want this guy. like he had other jobs i mean you know Tennessee was talking about duane simpkins to replace me there like so it flipped like in one meeting it flipped from me

convincing duane simkins to stay here and i am like we are lucky to have duane simpkins who was a mcdonalds all-american who played for a naysmith hall of fame high school coach and Morgan Wooten, and played for a Naismith Hall of Fame college coach at Maryland, who was a six-foot point guard. So he knows the scrappiness and toughness and competitiveness that we talk about. So he's been great. He's been great bridging the gap with our players, recruiting the area, and his institutional knowledge has been incredibly incredible.

This is the seventh season here. So I'm really excited about my three assistant coaches. IJ. Poole is a young, hungry. very talented guy that I worked with at Tennessee. He was actually a 24-year-old assistant coach at Appalachian State for two seasons. He was a manager at Texas for coach, a grad assistant at Tennessee. He did video stuff for us last year at Tennessee, and he's a director of scouting and player personnel.

My ops guy is the academic coordinator from the University of Virginia basketball. He was there for 11 seasons with Coach Bennett. Is Coach Bennett been there for 11 years? It has been 11 years. And he was at Duke in Notre Dame before that. I met him on a Zoom. Mid-pandemic, I was on a Zoom with a guy named Daniel Marks from the Bucks. He had a Zoom talking about athletics, just kind of pushing athletes through the system and not value in education.

So I was on that Zoom as a panelist with a professor from some school. And me and the professor went at odds. He was kind of casting some generalizations on athletes and black athletes in particular. So me and that professor kind of went at it toe to toe. And I didn't know it, T.J. Graham's, my now ops guy was on that Zoom. And he got my email. I'm really close with a lot of guys on the Virginia staff. Johnny Carpenter being one of them, who was one of the smartest people in our game.

And Johnny said, hey, our academics guy asked for your number. He was on your Zoom call tonight. And I was like, give it to him. And TJ and I talked and he was like, man, I love that. Like, that was awesome. And he told me he had an interest of possibly working on the basketball side. What was it that you challenged the guy on the professor? What was what was the generalization?

I don't remember specifically because now it was two springs ago now or one spring. I don't even know. Stop back because you remember everything. I know. I remember he said something like, I think we were talking about the, the, how athletes just get kind of pushed through. Like just it's more about eligibility than like excellence in education. It's more about eligibility than graduation is what he was saying.

And then that's true in a lot of places. But he was saying the athletes don't care about that. The athletes, the athletes are pushing that. And that couldn't be further from the truth. I just, it depends on the kid. Exactly. It's not, my, my argument to him was black college athletes aren't monolithic. Like, there's not one thing that we, we all do. It's, it's a million different things. Just like I couldn't say all professors. I'll give, I'll give an example. Okay. So when I was Notre Dame, Notre Dame, Notre Dame, you have to take freshman studies.

So you get thrown in the pool, and there's just, it's a smaller school, brilliant people. And so I remember I had to take, like, biochem and some high level math. And if I didn't have Anthony Weish, who, who's assistant opposite to Sienna, if I didn't have tone in my class, I was done, done. Not just, I'm not even talking about peeking, just the,

and that comes from his family and his desire to work. When I was at Oklahoma State, Adrian Peterson's third all-time lean score. Like, that dude was, was brilliant. You have, it had it didn't they went across racial bounds yeah so that would not argue it didn't matter it's all based upon the kid what his parents high school coaches demanded and frankly what the what the coach demands of other players but mostly it does come down to the kid and if the kid is there

it's it's a lot like you said by coaching when you started like coaches get into the business for the wrong reason there are players they're in this thing for the wrong reason and some figured out and some don't. And it always bothers me when people say, well, guys just get pushed along. They get, well, yeah, well, again, you're assuming you know every player. There are some guys who are just going to try and get by.

Yeah, no, it was ridiculous. And we went at it and it was good. It was fine. It ended well, and Daniel loved it. And it's funny you say that I just, one of the most successful former Mason players just walked in. I'm going to visit with him here in a little bit, Steve Neal, who was a very successful businessman in the area.

I was kind of, as you were talking, I was just kind of watching him walk in. He's, he's incredible. I mean, he's been a vice president for a huge grocery store here locally giant foods. Now he has a busing and trucking company. So, no, yeah, we dictate. This is higher education. We are part of the higher education process. So, you know, as a basketball coach for me especially, that education is going to extend beyond the classroom and onto what we do.

So, okay, here's what's important. Now you get a team. It's your team. The buck stops there. You can play however you want. You played for two head coaches in college that played very different styles. You played for five different high schools. I'm sure they played different styles plus AAU programs.

Okay. You play in the NBA. You played overseas. You have all of this knowledge in your head where you recall every play and whatever. Okay. two questions in one. First, how do you want to play? And second, can you play that way in year one, considering you haven't gotten a chance to change all of your personnel to how you truly desire to play? I think we can. I think we can play the way we want to play in year one. I don't know it.

I don't know it until I actually see all the pieces together. Right now, it's some new guys mixed with some old guys in a lot of video, haven't seen those guys all meshing. So I think this summer is going to Tate truly, you know, what is it we do best? You know, what gives us the best chance at winning? You know, if it's, you're talking Kelvin Samson, it's defense and rebounded. If you're talking Mark Few and Gonzaga, it's an offensive juggernaut. They're going to score more points than you because they're just really good at scoring points. So, yeah, in my mind, it's going to be, it's going We're going to be a team that is focused on defense and rebounding. And, you know, we're going to pick up 94 feet.

We're not going to be just going to be a little bit. I hate to say this. It's going to be a little bit of a lot of the things I've experienced. You know, I want to extend defensively. And then later in the possession, I want to protect the pain. You know, I know that. But what's most important is that our guys know. Like that's a great question.

You said the buck stops with me and it does, right? But it's my job. It's our job as a staff to get all that intelligence that I just talked about on our staff to get that intelligence onto the court. We need to get that intelligence and that identity under the court. So it's- It also all has to work together, right? Sure.

For me, you can't talk offense without talking defense. Our defense and our offense are married, right? Like, I don't know, I hate when coach say, yeah, we're going to play fast, we're going to play up tempo. Like, good offense is neither fast nor slow. Good offense is efficient, you know, good offense is efficient. Good offense is coupled with great transition defense. You know, good, good, good half court defense is coupled with a good transition offense. You know, so our mission defensively is to keep the ball out of the pain.

take away threes from good shooters, contest every shot and limit them to one. Offensively, if we get a defensive rebound and a stop, which we're going to be a good defense team, our guys have the first seven seconds of the possession of play, man, get downhill. I got two rules in transition offense, run as hard as you can possibly run and pass as someone

if they're open in transition. It's theirs. They have the freedom to do what they want in transition, knowing that I want to lay up a free throw or an open three in transition. And then after that seven seconds, we're going to be in what we call playing the game. It's going to be four out one in, five out, principal-based offense. You know, I talk to our guys all the time about their shared cognition in our offense. If a player on the right wing is driving baseline,

the other four guys knowing exactly where they need to be on that baseline drive. And the driver knowing exactly where the other four guys need to be. If he's driving middle, the other four guys knowing exactly where they need to be. If Malik Henry is coming to set of ball screen, the guy with the ball and the other three guys knowing exactly what Malik Henry is going to do. As he roll, as he pop, is he short roll? If it's Blake Jones from Australia, He was a six-nine shooter.

Blake Jones is popping. Right. So like it's, it's going to be, you know, I think it's going to be fun offensively. And, you know, our mission on offense is to take care of the ball and get a great shot. So very simple, very simple, very simple sounding things. But, you know, us being able to implement it. And but most importantly, our guys being able to more than verbalize it do the things we want, know who we are as a team.

You know, those guys. knowing our identity and our staff, we're not doing ourselves any favors. We're hoarding all this information and knowledge on the bench. Get that information onto the court. We need our guys to be smarter than their guys. Okay, last thing. What will determine your personal feelings of success in your one?

Yeah, it's no, you know, it's for me, it's very, it's it's it's it's it's on a very singular day-to-day possession-by-possession basis like when people what like what is that like what 20 wins all right what if you win 20 games and you got three games left to go in the season like what is it getting to the NCAA tournament all right what if you get to the instead of tournament like now what are you going to say hey guys let's pack it in, man. Great job. We reached our goal. Our goals are going to be very process oriented. Like our goals, and I could go on a tangent, but like our goal for like the whole season is to, on the rise of our shot on offense, our goal is to have three guys going to offensive rebound and one guy sprinting back as hard as he can. And that guy that's back is back. He's pointing and howling in the guys that did go to the.

glad they didn't get it. Those guys are running as hard as they can run back in transition defense. And then we're building a wall to keep the other team out the paint. We're getting matchups. We're identifying shooters. We're not allowing any zero past pain touches, not allowing any kick ahead threes. We're keeping the ball out of the paint. We're closing out with high hands. We're playing defense without fouling. We're where we're executing our pick and roll coverage at the point of the screen, hitting people, not being soft. Right. On the rise of the shot, it's not, it's not looking at the flight of the ball. It's finding who's coming and doing is laying the wood.

It's hitting them as hard as you can. It's going to get the rebound with two hands, securing a rebound, looking up the court. Like, for me, that's a goal achieved. Like, that's our goal for this season to be able to do that. And then on offense, it's running as hard as you can. It's passing to someone if they're open. It's taking care of the ball. It's playing unselfishly.

It's playing in a possession to find the absolute best shot for our team. And then it's on the rise of the shot doing exactly what I just said. Like that's my goal. It's process. This season is that that's all I want our players thinking about. Because no goal that I can say matters right now on May 20th. Like the only goal is to get what I just described to you. Like, and if we can literally focus in and hone in on that rest,

those responsibilities, every single possession, I feel great about the outcome of our season. It's interesting that in our last spot, you talked about how you believe you succeeded at Missouri because you failed at first. You know, when you first got there, we were the 13 out of 13. And that, you know, one of the reasons you felt like you guys lost the Norfolk State was because you succeeded in the big 12 tournament. And then because you succeeded in Summer League, it took away a little bit of your hunger in the NBA. And it hurt your season with the Pistons. It's interesting. I wonder if that's, that will be the case at Mason, right?

Like if you struggle out of the gate, because I'll just give you a personal example. So I coach the Maccabi games team. It's the Jewish Olympics. And, you know, like anybody, you think you have a lot of. all the answers. You think, you know, you're doing. You go through practices leading up to it. Guys are like, oh, this is amazing.

So we go and we play the Israeli junior national team. And, you know, we get good players. And we're down 22 to 2 to start the game. And I call it timeout. It's just a friend. And I call a time out. And I'm sitting there to myself. All right.

I don't know what I'm going. You know. and I had come with the idea in mind. I had these two, like, Jewish ones like 6-11. The other one's like 6-10. And so I scrapped it and I went small and we made it competitive. And I think we lost by like six or eight or whatever. But I was messing around with how I wanted to guard the ball screen in the second

half and it probably cost us points. But what you said rang true, which was, I've been thinking about this since we last talk, which was, had that not happened, I would have walked around thinking I knew exactly what I was doing and been wrong. And, you know, we won that tournament because of my ability to change on the fly and figure out to go small, to go big. And I also changed my whole philosophy about playing small coaching in that tournament. And somebody told me when I was interviewing for a job We're like, hey, look, you know a lot of basketball? You're going to learn more coaching one college basketball game than you've learned the whole

rest of your life. There's so many things that happen in one college basketball game. And I just, I wonder for you what that's going to be like because you know what you're doing. You know the game. You've done it. You've lived it. You've seen it. You've felt it.

And you have great instincts for what you should do. But it's just different. And I wonder if immediate success in your will plant the next. negative seed in your mind? Like, what happens if you guys start out to know? Yeah, no, it's not. It's the worst thing. I'd rather lose it first. No, no, no, no, it's, it's, it's, there's a, there's a Japanese word called Kaizen, Kaysen, K-A-I-Z-E-N. And Kaysen means continual growth. Like, continual growth is all that matters. Like, growth is all that matters. You know, Rudyard Kipling and all these innuendos, but like they, they, they rain true when you really do

make them who you are like like he's reddya kipling says if you can meet with triumph and disaster and treat those two impostors just the same they're imposters they're imposters if we are building our team and would you ask me about what my goal was and I described to you our defense possession and our offense possession if we are getting better in that and losing games we're just going to keep getting better in those things like we we know no no coach in the world is going to argue that those things don't aren't the reason teams win basketball games. About forcing teams in the tough contested shots, getting first shot rebounds, taking care of the ball, getting great, getting your best players, the best shots.

Like, if we win our first few games, and we're going to have a beast of a schedule, we're going to have a beast of a schedule. If we win our first few games, like, we're going to continue to get better at those things. Like it's, it's, it's not, it, I'm beyond that point now where success or failure is going to make me think I'm like hot stuff, right? Like, I know I'm not that good. That's why I work extremely hard. Stefan Curry and Damien Lillard, who are ridiculously good. When you hear those guys after 50 point games, they talk about still having things they have to work on.

it's because of the work, the work I put in. So if I'm preaching that to our team, it's the same with me. It's the same with our staff. Like how are we getting better every day? No matter the outcome. No matter the outcome. Like things are never as good as they seem. Things are never as bad as they seem.

You know, so it's not about the outcome. It's about what we are doing. Are we doing the things that we value as important? I appreciate this time. I know you've got to go and I got a lot of stuff to do. I got to talk to Steve Neal, man. He's a George Mason, great. Go do that.

We'll talk soon, okay? Thanks, brother. Appreciate it. Thanks, no. All right. Remember to listen to Doug Gottlieb show Daily 3 to 6 Eastern, 12-3 Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, the IHeartRadio app, or wherever you download podcast.

In the meantime, download, subscribe, rate, write or review. If you like it, you don't like it, hope you enjoyed it. I'm Doug Gottlieb. This is All Ball. Get right to the romance and find the way to wow this Valentine's with 1 800 flowers.com. From classic roses and bouquets to decadent chocolate covered berries,

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