The Herd with Colin Cowherd - All Ball (Pt. 2 of 2) Former All-NBA Defender Raja Bell Talks Kobe Rivalry, The Clothesline, Respect, Unexpected Friendship, Legacy

Episode Date: February 7, 2020

This week, in the second part of a two part interview, Gottlieb continues his conversation with former All-NBA Defender Raja Bell on the escalation of his on-court rivalry with Kobe, the clothesline, their mutual respect, unexpected friendship, and the Mamba's legacy. Make sure you download, rate and subscribe here to get the latest All Ball Podcasts! Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo, and every episode, we're cutting through the noise,

breaking down the biggest moments in sports and giving you the real story behind the headline. And we're going straight to the source, the athletes themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions in the moment, and the stuff nobody gets to hear. Listen to Sports Slice on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok.

Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel. Help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter.

Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, what's good, y'all? You're listening to Learn the Hard Way with your favorite therapist and host Kear Games. This space is about black men's experiences, having honest conversations that it's really not safe to have anywhere, but you're having them with a licensed professional who knows what he's doing. How many men carry a suit or armor? It signals to the world that you're not to be played. with and just because you have the capability that does not mean that you need to listen to learn the hard way on the iha radio app apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast what's up guys

this is clivert taylor the fourth and on my podcast the clivert show i'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff like being an internet famous referee we're in the middle of a game this linebacker this linebacker walks up to me he goes a ref my mom wants you to wave at her what Time out. Quarterback on office blue with 42. Hey, Rhett. My mama want you to weigh better. What?

Hey, Miss Parker. Listen to the Clifferts show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Remember all those big dreams used to have? And then life made other plans. With a Mercedes-Benz Sprinter van, it's time to bring those dreams back. Start your own business or commit to van life

with a Mercedes-Benz Sprinter van. Now, you could win the Mercedes-Benz Sprinter Mode 4x4 that we have. Enter the Dan Patrick Show Ultimate Camping Rigs Sweepstakes. To enter, get official rules. Visit Danpatrick.com or Fox SportsRadio.com. Have to do it by February 2nd for your chance to win. No, not now. That sounds like it's going to cost you.

I know what to do. I'm going to cashnetUSA.com. I can apply in minutes, get an instant decision, and if approved, I could have the money in my account as soon as the same business day. When you need money fast, be the hero. Go to cashnetUSA.com to apply for the money you need now. The exact timing as to when your loan funds will be available will be determined by your banking institution.

Hey, what up, welcome in. Doug Gottlieb here, this is the All Ball podcast. Quick note, we're not putting trade deadline stuff on this podcast because this discussion with Rajabelle is just too good. If you want the more up-to-date, hey, this trail, what do I think of Clint Capella being sent out of Houston? Actually, I kind of want to say something that I just think it's a mistake. You do need a roll man. You do need a rim runner. You do need rim protection.

You may not want to close with it, but you need it as part of your bag. I think it's been a mistake. But they had overpaid him, and so I know there's up with the ramifications. That kind of stuff you can get on the Doug Gottlieb show podcast, which drops daily. This is a great discussion with Rajabelle. about Kobe Bryant, what he learned, how they became friends, the breaking of the ice, and where he was when he found out about Kobe's death and how his own kids, his own mom reacted to it.

It's great stuff. Without further ado, here's part two of All Ball with Raja Bell. Be sure to catch the live edition of the Doug Gottlieb show weekdays at 3 p.m. Eastern, noon Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and the IHeart Radio app. Okay, so what was his rep in the league? What did people say about Shaq? About Kobe? Yeah, I think most people did not like Kobe.

And I don't, I don't, because, well, first of all, I shouldn't say most people. Most of the stars that Kobe probably led into his circle probably liked him. I was not one of them. So I was just someone that had to compete against him. Anyone who only knew him as the competitor, you probably didn't like him. because he was really good. He was unapologetic about being really good. He did nothing that you ever did really got to him

because there was very little like trash talk between he and I. And, you know, like sometimes they're satisfaction just being able to get a guy to say some stupid shit to you. Like, you know, I'm under your skin a little bit. But he gave you none of that. So I think it's safe to say that most guys, on the teams, at least that I was on during the time, they didn't really love Kobe that much.

but, you know, in fairness, you know, he wasn't letting a lot of people in at that point. He was, he was. He let anybody in. Like, listen, I don't, I don't even think it's stars. I don't think anybody knew him. Remember, like, he lives by me now. Like, this is, he moved down to Newport Beach, Newport Coast, which is even further to Newport Beach. Like, he was aloof by, by his own estimation.

Like, he didn't, he didn't, that wasn't how he got down. Like, he did kind of his own thing. So I don't, and by the way, for you're, and most people listen to this, no. We're not crushing the dude. Like part of, I think, I believe, you know, did you watch last Friday night with the, it was basically became a memorial before the game? Yeah, I did. It was fantastic.

It was fantastic. It was fantastic. I was, I was bawling my eyes out in Miami hotel room. I had to go up there. I couldn't. But I think I thought that using his own voice was not only from Dear Basketball was not only powerful, but also if you, if you, if you, listened, it told the story of Kobe in that when he first came to league, he wanted to be

Michael Jordan. He talked like Mike. He walked like Mike. He tried to play like Mike. He chewed gum like Mike. He's trying to copy his idol, which, hell, anybody tried to do that, right? And then there was this time in which, and this was about when you kind of ran into him where he was feeling himself, but kind of trying to be hood, you know, trying to kind of figure out who he was. and like again if you listen close enough during that ceremony you heard his voice and it kind of chink goes like wait he's is he doing a Michael Jordan impression and then all of a sudden he's like wait is he trying to be a hood and then like the the later stage the 24 and even late in his he started just be Kobe and then as he finished up and then you know he gets his number retired like now he's this like regal gentleman and you're like Like he's brilliant. Like, no, he like figured it out. He grew up.

Yeah. And here's the parallel to my, to me. Like, I'm a Jewish kid from Orange County. I remember I told my son this other night. Like, hey, when I was like 12 or 13, 14, like, I tried to talk like I was black. You know, I listened to hip hop music. Because I thought like, well, that's what basketball players do, right? You try and be a chameleon.

And then, you know, and then you go through a process of kind of figuring yourself out. And I remember by time, like, I was in college, I figured out that like black people don't like you because. you're trying to be, just be yourself. People like you if you're just be yourself. Even if you're a super sports dork, you know, just be yourself and your friends will be your friends and you're the people that don't like you won't be, and I think that's what Kobe figured out.

And I, and I, I, I, I appreciate what you're saying because he wasn't, he wasn't a warm dude. He wasn't teaching other players. He wasn't letting people in. You know, he was, I'm sure he was insecure. I'm sure he was conflicted. He had, you know, he was going through, life changes.

You're playing with adults. He's in L.A., but you're in Orange County. And what you're saying is accurate, what everybody has told me. Like, Desmond Mason told me that, like, late in his career, late in Desmond's career,

and he's late in Kobe's career, like, all of a sudden, Kobe's, like, he's, like, yo, Dee, are you going to be at All-Star weekend? And Desmond's, like, who is this? He's like, Kobe.

He's like, we're like, we're like, we're not, like, friends. And then all of a sudden, like, he wanted to be boys. It was like he all of a sudden decided, like, You know what? Like this, trying to do it by myself thing sucks.

I'm going to try and be one of the guys. Yeah, he was really abrupt like that too. So it's not surprising. Like, I tell a story. So I don't even know I should let you take me where you want to go. But let me. No, no, go ahead. Yeah, so after what happens in Phoenix, you know, there was a, look, at that time I had, I hate it.

Like, I would, that shit wasn't made for TV. Like, if we had seen each other, I would have tried to fight it. And so... Why? What did he do? You talk about Phoenix, okay? Yeah. What did he do specifically? Well, look, specifically in that, within the elbow, you know, I mean, the triangle

offense, there's an elbow catch for some blind pig action that you get into, right? And they had figured out that was the one place I couldn't deny him. Because if I overplayed the elbow, he spun out and he was at the rim for a lot, there's no help that there. So I almost have to concede that catch, but I'm trying to three-quarter him to make it as hard of catch as I can. But Kobe's now figured out that while I'm leaving on him, like, I'm an easy target for a little subtle elbow to the chin because they can't really see that. So he's just, you know, he's within the game, he's shooting it at my, you know, he's hit me in the face with the elbow. So I've asked the rest a few times to clean it up. They refuse to do it.

So I'm like, okay. And I said to him at one point, like, if you don't, if you don't clean it up, I'll take care of it. Do I bug out, like, by my own admission, I just completely, like bugged out. But it was the post, the post incident that really like, and I've never said this before, but I'm going to share it with you, Doug. I thought if you watch the video, and I thought to the question that you just asked me about Kobe and was he liked, if you watch it, right? I bug out and lose my mind and I close line. If you do that to Steph Curry or any, any, like, player that's a start Janus, like, what do you think? think his teammates' reactions is going to be there.

They don't want to fight. By the way, I'm watching it right now. It's game five. You guys are up 93 to 79. He goes by you, and you close... And they come and help him up. They come and help him up, but nobody comes and does anything to you.

If you do that to Steph... You do that to Steph Curry, Draymond Green's coming for your ass. Correct. I thought, and I've never really articulated it, but you just asked me a question about how liked was he. Think about that.

Like that, that, like, no one had his back like that in that moment, which was, for me, it was kind of like, you know, I felt a little bad about that. Do you know what I mean? I'm like, man, that's got a, that's got a fucking suck. Here's the, here's the, here's the part. Let me, let me back you up on that. Okay. Your son's team in 2006, was that the team that lost to the spurs?

Yeah. Okay. But why did you lose to the spurs? Because fucking Steve Nash got checked by Robert Orie and I ran over there and Brian Grant ran over there and we tried to fight it.

No, but who hopped off of the bench and got suspended? Yeah, like the bench just Boris Thiel and Amarthea. Correct. That was the story, the story and again, you lived it so you tell me if I'm wrong. The very next year, Steve Nash,

two-time league MVP, okay, gets checked. Games over. You're going to win. You won in San An. Antonio to take back home court advantage, right? And I think it was game five or maybe it was game six. I don't remember, but yeah, it must have been game five.

I'll have to look. You lived it. You would know. But the next game, those guys were suspended and the spurs came in and beat you because you didn't have your, you didn't have like the best big guy in the league. Amari Stottom, the best pick and roll big guy in the league, right? Which only backs up your point, which is. all he did was get checked into the boards.

You close line Kobe, and nobody did anything to you. Nobody did anything to you. So it's not like you guys were the only ones that didn't like him. His own teammates were like, yeah, fuck that guy, right? Well, it certainly appeared that way. Like in the moment, it didn't, you know, it didn't strike me. But when I watched the film, I'm like, wow, don't really. Which again, had to be a lonely kind of fucking.

feeling. You know, but I think he embraced that. And so let me take it a step further, Doug. So, like, this is how abrupt you is. Like, we, we, we, um, the next time I see you, right? Obviously, after what's transpired, like, and this, that series plays itself out. And then, you know, every time I see you after that, now I got to be on, like, I'm on alert, like, because where I'm from, like, look, that shit, you might, you might want to

fight me every time I see you. I don't know. Yes. So I got to be, you know, I got to be. ready to go just in case you want to go. So, you know, I'm always on edge when I see him after that. So that the next time we really cross paths, cross pass, I'm walking out at the Staples Center that next year.

And Kobe is ahead of me as you're walking. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise. Breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines.

We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports Slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to Sports Slice on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok.

Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped. up in the chase, that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes

about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth. Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, is we have real conversations about on healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hardway. Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. What's up, guys?

This is Clivert Taylor the Fourth. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker, this linebacker walks up to me, he goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Time out. Quarterback on office blue with 42.

Hey, Wreck, my mama want you to weigh better. What? Hey, Ms. Parker. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. The story I've told myself about love or relationships can then shape my behavior, and that can lead me to sabotage the possibility of connection. This Mental Health Awareness Month, tune into the podcast deeply well with Debbie Brown and explore the journey of healing, self-discovery, and returning to yourself.

We explore higher consciousness, emotional well-being, and the practices that help you find clarity, peace, and self-mastery in a world that can feel overwhelming. The world is becoming lonelier. We're not becoming more social and connected. We're becoming more individualized. But we actually meet people. connection. If you've been searching for a soft place to land while doing the work to become whole, this podcast is for you to hear more. Listen to deeply well with Debbie Brown from the Black

Effect Podcast Network on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Closer to the carport than the visitor to me as we're going to the same place. But I'm walking at a brisker pace because he's got his wife. He's got an older woman with her. I can't tell who she is. And he's got kids. And so, So I'm like, oh, this is going to be fucking uncomfortable, but fuck. I mean, I'm walking, so here we go. As I go by, he yells out my name. And again, I'm like, he doesn't want to do this shit with his fucking kids here, does he?

But so I turn around, like, what the fuck? And he's like, Raj. He's like, what's up, man? Let me, I want to introduce you to my wife. These are my daughters. And this is my mother-in-law. And I would, you know, like, I've had weird encounters in my life, though, but this one was just fucking strange. I was like, well, what?

And from then on, we were, we were, we were, Like it was just that abrupt. Like it was, it was matter of fact. Like, hey, man, meet these people. And, you know, I'm like, wow, that's, it's different. But yeah, man, I'm, like, I don't, I'm cool. Like, fuck yeah, it's Kobe. Let's go.

If you love to be remembered as the person who gives the best birthday gifts, I'm here to tell you that 1800flowers.com is your ultimate birthday gifting destination. 1,800 flowers has thoughtful and artfully created options that are guaranteed to deliver the best birthday surprise. Shop thousands of unique gifts at 1800flowers.com for exclusive offers and great values. To order today, visit 1,800flowers.com slash tune in. That's 1,800flowers.com slash tune in. Look through your children's eyes to see the true magic of a forest.

It's a storybook world for them. You look and see a tree. They see the wrinkled face of a wizard with arms outstretched to the sky. They see treasure and pebbles. They see a windy path that could lead to adventure, and they see you. Their fearless guide through this fascinating world. Find a forest near you and start exploring at Discovertheforest.org, brought to you by the United States Forest Service and the Ad Council. Look through your children's eyes to see the true magic of a forest.

It's a storybook world for them. You look and see a tree. They see the wrinkled face of a wizard with arms outstretched to the sky. They see treasure and pebbles. They see a windy path that could lead to adventure. And they see you. Their fearless guide is this fascinating world. Find a forest near you and start exploring at discovertheforest.org.

Brought to you by the United States Forest Service and the ad council. It's really amazing, you know? And I told the story last week on the pod that I had a, he had an I can't breathe shirt on. And I tweeted something about it, you know, because, you know, everybody protected. Kobe around here. So I thought having that shirt on was a little hypocritical, whatever. I kind of made fun of it, whatever. And then I was working at CBS the time.

They freaked out because Twitter freaked out. So I took it down. I texted him. I got, Buecker got me his number. I texted him. Anyway, like my first time I had, I met him and had, I was like, hey, man, I just want to apologize about a tweet. He's like, are you fucking kidding me?

Like, I don't care, you know? And he, but he also, he would talk about. hoop and it was like and you know it was something my dad would would would tell me and I had I had trouble set it's like separating church and state right you had that too where like we're on the court you can be a complete you know prick but off the court you can be a regular dude and not carry it over and he could legitimately do that right he could legitimately he talked about it with me like full-scale psychological warfare like he'd do anything it took say anything it took act anyway to to win a game.

But then not the court, then it's like, no, that stuff's over. And it's a, I think the compartmentalization, this is, I think guys compartmentalize

better than women, but I also think that really bright people compartmentalize, and I think there's women that really compartmentalize very, very well. It's, it's a different type of brain

than everybody has, but he definitely had that in which he could process different things and why they were happening, you know? I mean, look,

that's why you were in the NBA, you know, you, you don't, look, you became a good enough offensive player, but you were the, my brother coached a guy named Jorge Gutierrez, who bounced around, played a bunch of the NBA. And when Greg signed him, Greg, he was, and he's like, look, this guy's amazing. Every team we play against, somebody wants to fight him. Every, every fucking team we play. Somebody wants to fight him.

He goes, it's the, you know, it's the, you know, it's the other team's best player, and he's completely out of his game because all he wants to do is fight Jorge, you know? and you kind of had that ability where you can rattle people and I don't know if you rattled him but it was, it's like a gift and you didn't try and do it. It's just like, look,

that's how I get to the league is I got to find a way to stop a dude and if it comes down to he wants to fight me, fine. That's the way it's got to go. It wasn't, like, that's kind of what like, you know, look, I, people say, you know, like with the whole thing,

like, no, I'm never stopping Kobe. No one ever stopped Kobe. Like, you know, I've been, on my best day, I was hoping to, like, affect the still goal percentage and keep him off the free to line and just challenged the fucking shot and hope that he made. You weren't going to stop him.

You could shoot it from any angle, like he had a counter for everything you did. But what I figured out with Kobe was, where I could get to him was not in, like, irritating him to the point where he lost his mind, but almost baiting him into trying to score 60 on me, if that makes sense. Like, if I could,

get him. Yes, yes, because then he would completely get out of, because the idea of the triangle is, you know, it's basically a spacing, ISO-based offense, but if help comes, there's perfect spacing so that the next pass is wide open and very obvious, right? So if I could get him out of throwing that next pass, we had a better shot of winning than if he got the 38 and everybody else got 15. So I would almost be like, look, don't help. Like, like, it can be a long night for me. Mike could be like, look, it can be a long night. But we're much better off if you can get him to try to score 50 on you tonight.

I'd be like, it's going to fucking suck. But, okay. And we had very level success with it. But I'd be interested to know the numbers on the nights where he took a high volume of shots for them in games that I played against him. I always felt like that gave me the best shot. If I could keep him off the free throw line and have him shoot a high volume of shots, Like, it was the best I could do. This is an aside, and maybe it's for another podcast,

but there are always going to be people that question the validity of Steve Nash's MVP awards. I had to be like, well, he didn't guard. You know, they didn't win a championship. And my counter to that was, one, obviously, that Spurs game in which you had two of your best players suspended, completely changes that narrative. two you guys changed basketball the way you played.

Sean Marion at the four, you know, and just the spacing and execution and offense. But more than anything, like, dude, all of everyone got paid because Steve Nash made everyone better. Like he just, it made everyone better. And it was also he kind of came up a little bit different era where Steve Nash could really shoot but just didn't all the time because that wasn't how you played, right? He just took what the defense gave you. You lived through the Steve Nash two.

MVP era, was he legitimately the best player in the league during those two years? He was, so I get into this a lot, Doug. Are we talking about the best player or are we talking about like most valuable player? Because I would tell you that there wasn't a player with more value than speed because every single thing we did was predicated off of him making it work with his ability to play pick and roll or, you know, to just generally get you the ball where you want it. Without that, none of that works. And so, yeah, I would say that Steve is deserving of those.

I do think it's kind of laughable that Kobe only has, well, what is one MVP? What did he? Did he, he got one MVP? Like, to have been as dominant as he was, I think he should have had more. But I don't know that I'd make the argument that he deserves one of the ones that Steve got. Because Steve was, look, if Steve wanted to average 25 to 26 points a game

with what we were doing, you don't think he would average 26 points in the game. Like he was, he shot the best shooter on our team. He was probably, I don't know, maybe third or fourth and three-point attest. I don't know what the numbers say, but he just, the game wasn't played through the point guard position like that yet. I've talked to Steve about this. I've asked him, he was like, man, I wish, you know, if I had known that this was an

analytically, you know, better way to play offensively, I would have shot the ball more. it would have been better for our team. And like, you know, hindsight's 2020, like, but if he wanted to, he would have done that. He just didn't do it because he was so busy setting the table for the rest of us. And if you subtracted him from our equation, like that, that doesn't work. If Mike doesn't have Steve, like, in those years, I mean, I don't know who else you would plug into that. Maybe he found a serviceable guy that could get some of what we got, but it wouldn't have been that. He was a magician in what we were doing offensive.

Okay, so you meet Kobe, his daughters, his wife, his mother-in-law. Did it immediately change? Did you guys become friends then, or did it take a while? Text buddies, like, what happened after that meeting? Yeah, so that, we became, we became like, I don't know, I see you, we talk, like, you know, we're asking about kids. It was like that, like, you know, I could play them in the playoffs, right? And so I had my first son the night before we played the Lakers at home. And so, you know, he's like, I am, man, I heard you.

You know, you had your son last night. So we're friends like that. You know, when I got to Charlotte, it became like, hey, man, you want to go out to dinner. Like, you got a number, you know, numbers and, you know, I'll shoot him the random text, invite him to, like, you know, Thanksgiving and stuff like that. You never really accepted that invite, like, when they'd be a town and stuff like that. But then we became, you know, we became guys where I'd reach out. via text and he'd reach out via text and you know we we never became like besties like that you

know what I mean but there was a there was a respect there like he he came out one year and I remember in Utah I was back in Utah it was the first time we saw him and we were laughing before the game and talking shit and he was telling me hey man I got something new for you bro putting up 275 on the bench I'm 4% body fat like you ain't seen nothing like you know just just kind of like you know buddies like we weren't ever going to to be like doing holidays together like Steve and I did but but we were cool man and I really I really appreciated the fact that a guy like that just for me this was a per this is a selfish thing could appreciate the inner competitor and me enough to like to to to be a friend like to

respect it enough because real talk like who's fuck am I like it's Kobe fucking Brian and and I pulled two 10 days and lucked my way into the league you know so there was a There was some satisfaction and some, you know, there was some pride in the fact that, man, I played this motherfucker hard enough. Not successful enough, but hard enough where he was like what he would think of me like that. And so, you know, before I went to Utah that year, I was a free agent. It was going to be the last time I was a free agent. Last night, a blown call changed a game.

This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending. Opinions are flying. And nobody's telling you exactly what has. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise. Breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines.

We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports Slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to Sports Slice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slic Life 12 and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok.

Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking. Trip Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch.

Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth. Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person.

Join me, Kear Gaines, as we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hardway. Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. What's up, guys? This is Clivert Taylor the Fourth. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker walks up to me, he goes, Hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her.

What? Time out. Quarterback on office blue 42. Hey, ref, my mama want you to wave at her. What? Hey, Ms. Parker. Listen to the Clippers show on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.

The story I've told myself about love or relationships can then shape my behavior and that can lead me to sabotage the possibility of connection. This Mental Health Awareness Month, tune into the podcast deeply well with Debbie Brown and explore the journey of healing, self-discovery, and returning to yourself. We explore higher consciousness, emotional well-being, and the practices that help you find clarity, peace, and self-mastery in a world that can feel overwhelming. The world is becoming lonelier. We're not becoming more social and connected.

We're becoming more individualized, but we actually need people in connection. If you've been searching for a soft place to land while doing the work to become whole, this podcast is for you to hear more. Listen to deeply well with Debbie Brown from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. The Lakers called me at 1201 that night. Kobe did it. I was in Long Island with my in-laws front yard hanging out. And a call comes in the next day from L.A. And, you know, he's like, yo, what's up?

I'm like, well, I don't know. You were trying to figure out what's going on. He's like, look, LeBron, D. Wade and Chris Bosch, you know, they think they think that they got it going on down there. They're trying to load up and win championships. And he said, anybody who can close line me in a lot. in a playoff game, I need them on my key. He was like, they think they got something, but we're going to load up too.

And he pitched it, just like that. And I was like, okay, well, you know, we got to see what the numbers are, because at that point, Doug, you know, money was being spent. It wasn't being spent on me necessarily. So I was going to probably, I thought, have to wait in free agency to see who had money left and just, you know, I'm trying to make a living out of this, right? I didn't have the luxury of just saying, yeah, I'm going to play purely for the money. So, you know, a few of people of, or just,

for the championship. So a few weeks go by, and I'm out, I go out to the SB, I'm going to meet with Kobe. And he's like, yo, dude, I'm going to send the Mamba Chopper. I'm like, what the fuck you're talking about? He's like, yeah, I'm going to say, I'll drive. He's like, I would send the Mampa Chopper. If you pick you up, it's going to you out to the house, and we'll chop it up

and we'll get it figured out. And I'll be damned, dude, if that day, I don't get a call from Chicago and fucking the jazz, both with two different offers, both for around 10 million, and the Lakers were just strapped. They just didn't have anything left. And I called him and I was like, yo, dude, I hate to do this shit to you.

I was like, I mean, look, these numbers aren't even comparable. I never make this money again in my life, bro. Like, I ain't a waste your gas on the chopper, you know, and put it to bed like that. And he was cool about it. But I always regret, I mean, not sitting here like, like, you know, paying mortgages. I don't regret it. But I regret never playing with him because that legendary, like, work ethic that he had, that I will outwork anyone in the gym is something that,

especially in my younger days, I prided myself on it, and I would have loved to have seen if I could live up to that shit. Like, you know, I was good enough to, like, earn a little bit of respect from and playing against him. I would have liked to have known if I could earn his respect playing with it, just to match whatever he was doing physically, and I never got tested yet. If you love to be remembered as the person who gives the best birthday gifts, I'm here to tell you that 1-800 Flowers.com is your ultimate. ultimate birthday gifting destination.

1-800 Flowers has thoughtful and artfully created options that are guaranteed to deliver the best birthday surprise. Shop thousands of unique gifts at 1-800flowers.com for exclusive offers and great values. To order today, visit 1-800flowers.com slash tune-in. That's 1-800flowers.com slash tune-in. What grows in the forest? Trees? Sure.

Know what else grows in the forest? our imagination, our sense of wonder, and our family bonds grow too, because when we disconnect from this and connect with this, we reconnect with each other. The forest is closer than you think. Find a forest near you and start exploring

at Discovertheforest.org. Brought to you by the United States Forest Service and the Ad Council. And we're live here outside the Perez family home just waiting for the... And there they go. Almost on. time this morning. Mom is coming out the front door strong with a double-armed

kid carry. Looks like dad has the bags. Daughter is bringing up the rear. Oh, but the diaper bag wasn't closed. Diapers and toys are everywhere. Ooh, but Mom has just nailed the perfect car seat buckle for the toddler. And now the eldest daughter, who looks to be about nine or ten, has secured herself in the booster seat. Dad zips the bag closed and they're off. Ah, but looks Like mom doesn't realize her coffee cup is still on the roof of the car. And there it goes! Oh, that's a shame. That mug was a fam favorite.

Don't sweat the small stuff. Just nail the big stuff. Like making sure your kids are buckled correctly in the right seat for their age and size. Learn more at nhtsa.gov slash the right seat. Visit nhtsa.gov. Slash the right seat. Brought to you by Nitsa and the ad council. Or were you when he found out he had the crash?

I was in a car driving from a quarterfinal game with my 7th grade basketball team going to our semi-final game and one of the kids in the back said, I just saw Kobe died in a helicopter crash and I was like, dude, cut it out, man.

I was like, that's not even funny. I was like, you guys, like all your internet, I was like, it's, like, didn't they say, like, a little yachtie or somebody died last week, like, cut it out? And I had a dad sitting next to me in the front seat and I kept driving and another one of them in the back was like I just saw it too so I'm like oh fuck I look over to dad and I'm like him and check ESPN real quick just check

check check a major like verified and it hadn't hit yet and so I called Steve and I was like I was like Nash or you know what's up dude are you you LA and he's like yeah I was like it's true and I don't know that he heard what I said because his response immediately wasn't like it's true he said you know, something, and the kids are all in the car. And at the end, I'm like, okay, brother, all right, cool. Are you good? And he was like, yeah, dude, I'm good. I'm like, what the fuck?

I was like, are you telling me that, so I just, I mean, I, you know, it hit home immediately for me because, I mean, once I've got the details, I found out what he was doing that day. I was doing the same thing. It was just, my, my, Doug, my mother, I've never seen this, someone not in our family. She cried like she lost the child. And I don't really, to this day, I don't know why. It affected her like that. She cried when I got out of the car, and she was parked right next to me,

and I looked at her. She knew something was wrong. She said, what happened? I said, what happened? I said, Kobe just died in a helicopter crash. She broke down and cried like she had lost the child. I was, it was a weirdest thing. But then I watched over the next few days, obviously, the world,

it had that effect on them. And admittedly, it didn't have that effect on me that day. It didn't. Like, it was shitty. I felt terrible. I felt awful for the families as the news started to pour out. But it didn't hit me. And I don't know if I'm supposed to feel guilty for that or not, but it didn't hit me.

The next day when I went to work and it started to sink in, I had to start talking about it. Yeah. It just sucked all the life out of me. It's amazing because, so my daughter, so, so, So, and if you're listening to pod, you probably heard last weeks. I had, I called a game the night before on radio, Kentucky, Texas Tech. And I'm really close with the Texas Tech guys. And I, like, spent the next, like, five hours breaking down tape with them, which is just awesome.

Chris Beard's an incredible dude. And I flew back. I was supposed to come to Miami on Sunday. And I could have had, like, a day at the beach and no kids and nothing and just, you know, I mean, great. but my son, we had two, our team, like our, I think it was sixth grade, yeah, our sixth grade had two, he's like a little young fifth grader, but we had two sixth grade games and my daughter had, and he had a baseball game and my daughter had a, she rides, she had a riding show. And so I hadn't seen a ride in a couple months.

So I was like, I'm going to come, so I literally, you know, fly in and it's foggy and we land, get to my car, drive down, pick up my other daughter, we go down to see her show and it's, those things are always late. And she's showing and she's doing well and it popped up on my phone. My mom's sitting next to me. My wife and we're like, no way. No way. Right.

And then we're looking further. And now I knew Kobe, my daughters had gone to school with Gigi. And Gianna actually asked Harper, hey, why don't you play basketball? This is like two years ago. When we first moved back from Connecticut,

she's like, you know, do you should play basketball with us, you know, on the school team. then on Mamba, and Harper's like, I'm terrible. She's, she was okay, but she's like, but she's like, your dad play, why don't she play? She's like, I don't want.

Anyway, and the reason Harper didn't want to play was she wants to ride. And what they did with Mamba was they weren't very good at first, and they stopped playing tournaments and practice five, six days a week. It was good. It was hardcore. He really taught him how to play basketball. Anyway. So she gets done, she wins the show and she's like on her horse and she's bawling. And so I was like,

Gianna wasn't on it. I don't know. So I tell my wife and my mom, I'll go figure it out. So she's going and she's on her horse and she's walking back towards a stall or whatever. And I was like, what's wrong? You did great. She's like, dad, my friend died in a helicopter accident. I was like, no, Harper, Gianna wasn't on.

She's like, not Gianna, Alyssa. I was like, Alyssa. She's like, I hang out with her every day for the last two years before school and at lunch. She's on Mamba. She's like, and Ellie's on that team. and I don't know if Ellie was on the chopper too, and I was like, what? And so, like, we find out. So anyway, then I, we come home and, and one of the other girls at the barn is best friends with their older daughter, with Altebelli's older daughter, who now has no parents and loses a sister.

So we got arranged to get the car home. We get the car home, and now I've got to go coach these AAU games. So, and my son's out in front, you know, he's got Kobe Jersey on. He's shooting tribute videos to him, you know. Anyway, I go and I coach these games and we lose like two, like, but it was actually good basketball and everybody, like, everybody is like in a weird place. All the kids are wearing purple and gold and the parents who are in Kobe stuff or whatever, but it's just still too raw. Then I come home, my daughter, every, anyway, what I, the parallel was, I left that night and I was, I'm like you. Like I was more concerned about my daughter because we had, we had like a long talk about death and dying and what you believe,

happens next and how you should remember your friend and how you should handle things and, you know, and then I had to like fly across the country and, you know, works like, hey, we'd like to have you on like first thing in the morning. So I got to catch an earlier red eye. But I remember like closing my eyes in the red eye and I felt terrible, but it was more for my daughter. And I had, I had a friend named Don Clark who died suddenly. He was a six foot six kid. I was like 12 and he was 13. I'd grown up playing ball with him. And he like dropped dead one day after practice. And I told her the story that I remember when Don Clark died and how he died at the end of practice. And I used to get scared at the end of basketball games that I was going to drop dead.

And I was like, you know, in the way much my brain works now, I have friends that died in a plane crash. Now I know these people that died in a helicopter accident. I almost feel like the statistical likelihood of that happening to me is so minuscule. You know, there's some Survivor's guilt there, but I know it won't happen. Anyway, it wasn't until probably, and I, the next day, I was on energy and adrenaline, and I'd flown and I was tired. But I just got, I've gotten sadder and sadder and sadder. And when I saw that ceremony's Friday night, like, I was just bawling.

And I've been incredibly sad. And I think part of it is that it took me a while to like him. right but it also took him like reaching out part of it was you know like you see somebody's life basically his life was lived in the public eye since he was 17 so we saw him mature and then make mistakes and then fall out of favor and then earn back people's respect until this like incredible like unbelievable end to his career and then there's the element that you and i share which is we coach kids team we're in these cars with these kids all the time and it might have been a helicopter for him but it could have been a 15 passenger van or it could have been your SUV or whatever like

This shit can happen at any time, right? And just the relationships you have with your son or your daughter, where you're coaching them, like those moments are so real and so important. I don't know, like the whole thing. Yeah, I'm with you. Like, my dad died and it really affected me. I didn't cry.

I don't know as much as when Kobe died. Like, this thing is really put like a pale on me. Yeah, yeah, dude. First of all, I, I'd like that. your daughter is is reason why I'm so sad

like that like the the young people that are that are affected by the amount of loss in that in that helicopter right like Kobe and I this isn't to make

to marginalize Kobe's loss but just the amount of families is ultimately you know what got from me I'll get back to Kobe

it's just you know man like that's that's my world dude like it's why you know it's why you do what you do it's why you don't do something it's why you know it's it's your it's your world and to to casually leave every day and take for granted that you're going to see them again because you just do all the time um and and like it it it just put it just put a perspective on it where you're like man like you're really taking a lot of shit for granted like you don't know what's happening the next minute of your life.

And we're guilty of that. Our family, most of the families that were friends with, like my good friends that are in other states are all living the same life, where you're like, I've got to go, I've got to get Zen over to this game, and you've got to take Ty there, and I'll drop you off, I'll love you, see you later. Like, guys, have good games, we'll see you a bit.

And you just don't know. And so the amount of loss on that chopper, like, for those families, for your daughter and all the people that were close to all of them, was just, Doug, it consumed me, man. That, like that next day, even after work, I was just, I was really, really down. I'm with you, dude, all the way. My kids who are not nearly as close to the situation, obviously, as yours were, you know,

their granddad died two years ago. So, you know, it took them back to that shit. Like, they were, they were, my 12-year-old turned 13, I come home and he's crying in his bedroom. And I'm like, what do you know, what do you cry about, buddy? And he's like, well, you know, I should have been there when Papa died. and, you know, I'd like just, you know, it took them back to a really, really dark place. It had that kind of effect on a lot of people.

And to Kobe, I always thought that his life, because I had a dude that worked for the Sixers whose brother was friends with him back in high school. And he always told me, you know, Kobe didn't have a lot of people. He had a small circle because of who he was, right? And, you know, I'd say this about any, like, child start. got to be kind of lonely, right? It's got to be kind of hard for you to really sift through whether someone likes you for you or whether someone likes you because you're Kobe or you're Michael Jackson or your, you know, any, but the collie coughing, any star like that. Like, it's got to be a

very hard thing, you know, to figure out and trust. And so for that reason, it's got to be kind of lonely. And then, you know, you're this Uber competitor and, you know, you knock heads with everyone and you're beating them all. And then, you know, you don't want any of, you know, you don't want any friends, and then to see him really get comfortable in his own skin. And it doesn't matter whether it was post-retirement or not. But him opening up, him even just like the Mamba Academy and having the workouts with all the guys out there in L.A. and starting to impart some of the tricks of the trade and that wisdom, you know, all under those guys here.

Let me give you some keys to the king. Like, this is what I would do in this scenario or challenging those guys. Last night, a blown call changed the game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where SportsClice comes in. I'm Timbo.

Every episode, we're cutting through the noise. Breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real.

From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial, calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. SportsLice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to SportsSlice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host and your favorite therapist, Kier Games.

And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking. Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing

and we're still chasing it and we don't know when we've done enough because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth? Are you a good person because you're afraid

Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, is we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hardway. Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. What's up, guys?

This is Cliver Taylor the Fourth. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker walks up to me, he goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Time out.

Quarterback on office blue 42. Hey, rep, my mama wants you to wave at her. What? Where's she at? Hey, Miss Parker. Listen to the Clifford show on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. story I've told myself about love or relationships can then shape my behavior and that can lead me

to sabotage the possibility of connection. This Mental Health Awareness Month, tune into the podcast deeply well with Debbie Brown and explore the journey of healing, self-discovery, and returning to yourself. We explore higher consciousness, emotional well-being, and the practices that help you find clarity, peace, and self-mastery in a world. that can feel overwhelming. The world is becoming lonelier. We're not becoming more social and connected.

We're becoming more individualized, but we actually meet people in connection. If you've been searching for a soft place to land while doing the work to become whole, this podcast is for you to hear more. Listen to deeply well with Debbie Brown from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcast. You know, on Instagram, really opening up and being the type of family dude that he was. Like, it was just, you know, it was, it was really, really hard pill to swallow. Because to some degree, you felt like he was just hitting his fucking prime. Yes. No, he finally figured, he finally figured out. Like, I finally figured out. Yeah.

And then, and then it's ripped away. It's, it's, it's, it is, it makes the story even more complex. And, you know, it's like, it's one of those. It's one of those deals where I, you know, I said this on television. It's true. It's like, look, if you want to stop after Colorado, you can. If you want to stop after, you know, when he playing against you guys and the sons and he refused to shoot the ball, he did it again against the thunder, right, where he was throwing a fit because he didn't like his teammates or whatever.

You know, if you want to, like, those are just chapters in the story, but the thing isn't, the book continues to be written. there was this obviously a surprise and shocking ending, but all of a sudden the story became a beautiful one where the guy figured it out. And I think that's what we can all one relate to. I also think it's funny you point that out about, does he already be friends with me because I'm Kobe, you're friends with me because you want to be friends with me.

Like honestly, that's why I never asked him to be on the pod. Like he's like, dude, why haven't he actually, why have you asked me about your pod? I was like, I just, I don't, I actually kind of think we're friends. and I don't know, I just don't want to be the guy who used you so I could get 10,000 more downloads. Like, I don't want to be that guy. You and I aren't fucking friends? No, but you're not going to get me 10,000 more downloads.

We're just, we're catching up. We didn't fucking, we haven't caught up in forever. People forget, people forget, I discovered you. I discovered you back in the day. Now you're a multimedia star. So, um, so, no, it's a, and I think, and maybe this is a little bit. So now my daughter is going through the people have moved on, right? There's still flowers in front of the school and the memorial is Monday and people will remember

and they're doing these great stories about Alyssa's dad and as a junior college baseball coach down the street. But now it's like, hey, why aren't people remembering my friend? And yeah, the numbers are still up and the ribbons are still up. But, you know, people move on. Right. And I think for you, there's got to be a little love like, I made it myself. but you could close line anybody in the NBA, but you didn't, you closed line Kobe Ryan,

and it kind of made you a little bit, right? You became a made man because of it, because you stared down the belly of the beast and won. And so there's got to be a little bit of that. I said it to my dad the other day. Like, I said, you know, when I was really kind of unloading and stuff,

and, you know, I said, Dad, look, I mean, I would have still lived a dream. Like, but no one's, would have ever known who I was if that didn't happen. Like, so, you know, like, it's just a weird, it's just a weird thing, right? Like, no one would have ever known. Like, they would have been like, yeah, like, he could shoot a little bit and, and, you know, whatever.

But, but because of that, like, I had a couple minutes of, like, national attention. So I'm very cognizant of that. I'm not really, it's not like a thankful thing. I'm cognizant of the fact. And, you know, I, you grow up, like, Doug, when you grow up, like being a basketball player. Like, it is a dream. It is beyond, like, your wildest dream to be able to do that for most of us, right?

Some are born to do it. Some are dreaming to do it. Whoever, like, if you had told me, hey, man, one day, you are going to be friends with someone like Michael Jordan. I don't like the fuck at it. What are you talking about? Like, I, like, stop. Like, to be able to say that, like, I. I did have moments against Kobe where we really competed, and we both laid it all out there on the line,

and he respected me enough to, like, call me a friend and vice versa. Like, that's really, like, it's, in some ways, like, it is, as I feel as accomplished, as I do for having played in the NBA, if that makes sense. Do you know what I mean? Like, you, that's it. Like, you get the respect of MJ. You got you, that's it. You've done what you need to do.

Like, and I just feel that. I can't help it feel that way sometimes. Adoption of teens from foster care is a topic not enough people know about, and we're here to change that. I'm April Dinnuity host of the new podcast, Navigating Adoption, presented by Adopt U.S. Kids. Each episode brings you compelling real-life adoption stories told by the families that live them with commentary from experts.

Visit Adoptuskids.org slash podcast or subscribe to Navigating Adoption presented by Adopt U.S. Kids. Brought to you by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services Administration for Children and Families and the Ad Council. If I could be you. And you could be me for just one hour. If you could find a way to get inside. Each other's mind. Walk a mile in my shoes.

Walk a mile in my shoes. Walk a mile in my shoes. We've all felt left out. And for some, that feeling lasts more than a moment. We can change that. Learn how at belonging begins with us.org. Brought to you by the ad council. What grows in the forest?

Trees? Sure. Know what else grows in the forest? Our imagination, our sense of wonder, and our family bonds grow too. Because when we disconnect from this and connect with this, we reconnect with each other. The forest is closer than you think.

Find a forest near you and start exploring at Discovertheforest.org. Brought to you by the United States Forest Service and the ad council. he always went right, didn't he ever, did he go left? He went he went left to get into a shot, right? Like go right, come back left to get into a shot, go left to get into a pull-up.

Most of the attacking was done to the right. And I had a lot of, like, you know, I'd played him so much and watched so much. Like I had quick hands. It was one of the things that I've always had. And so, you know, when he'd get into that, like, little shoulder shimmy and give you the little fade away. I got hands on a lot of that.

Like, I mean, a lot, it's relative, but I get hands on it a bit. And, like, I just remember him being like,

oh, fuck, and then I'm back, like, the next year and being like, yeah, dude, but I'm not,

it's not going to be there anymore. And then it wouldn't be there anymore. Like, he hadn't moved it. So, like, the place where he originated, the shot was different.

So where I put my hand had to change now, too, because he had just countered what I'd be doing to him for a year, you know, and it was, he was always, you know, going to be one step ahead of what you were trying to do or trying to be one step ahead of what you were trying to do, you know? No, he was really a brilliant guy and he really put a lot of, like I think, I mean, I think Jordan was brilliant as a basketball player.

He's obviously like Kobe, he's been a brilliant businessman, but I don't think, and this may be, you played against him, so you tell me, I always saw Jordan early on, maybe in his prime was a little bit better athlete. Like, like, don't get him wrong. Kobe was a great athlete. But in NBA terms, Jordan was a freak. Like, you could not keep him out of the lane. And I can't imagine without hand checking. And, you know, Jordan finished on anybody. Kobe wasn't, was just a notch below, but Kobe's ability to understand everything,

angles, pivoting, use of your hands, your quickness of your hands, and how to change things. Like, his overall IQ and basketball IQ was spectacular. And there is the kind of even the conflict there. as smart of basketball players as he was, he also could be super, super selfish, right? And take bad shots and force things and get, and like you said, when you get goaded into kind of the rivalry of, hey, I'm going to fuck you up.

And good, that's what we want you to do. We want to keep, we want you to shoot the ball 40 times and not pass the ball because that gives us a better chance to win. So there was a lot to him that's different and that that's how I think the story should be told. We get caught up in media, I think, sometimes in platitudes. and in talking about big moments where you having guarded him and me having watched it and our and and like a podcast like this, the ability to break down like this is what really kind of separated him

and made him different. Yeah, dude, I agree with you. I think what like he, you know, at the end of the day, you know, Kobe, you know, was a human being, right? Like, and we all have like our, our brilliant moments. We all have our natural brilliant moments. like we all do dumb shit, you know, to the point, like, about the chapters keep rolling on. Like, you know, my kids asked me the other day as they get more information about Kobe about Colorado, right? And, you know, I had to just frankly tell them, like, look, this is what happened.

Share that with them, but say, like, look, you know, everybody will make mistakes. There are degrees of that. granted, everybody is going to do, but it's, it's, it's, can you grow, can you learn, can you keep it moving from that? Can you continue to evolve? Like, as a little person, as it pertain to them, like, you know, does that define who you are or do you try to become better from it? I was like, and, you know, let's not get caught up on that. We have to admit and, and take that into account when you're, when, when you're talking about someone, it wouldn't be fair not to, but do you continue to try to evolve?

And that's kind of through all of this, like Doug, because I do coach a high school team now, and I coach a seventh grade team and a fifth grade team, and I'm with my boys and my little girl's too young, she's three, but, you know, when you talk about like Mamba mentality, I'm like, look, guys, the best way you can honor him, like you're not writing anything on your shoes and Sharpie or anything like that, like that, that's not the way you do it.

The way you do it is to, my son's been reading, like, his book, he's got it, and he did it was doing that before, you know, the tragedy, but it's to apply some of, some of the, some of the, the mindsets that he had to your daily, whatever it is that you love to do, like, attack it with the passion and a thirst to be, like, great at it. Like, think that enough is enough. Always try to, like, evolve and be better at what you're doing, just whether it be playing the cello or, or the piano or, or, date. dancing, whatever it is that you love and you have a passion for, first and foremost find it.

Whatever it is. Like the kid, I sent you videos the other day and you sent me videos. Like, I don't know what my son's love yet. Find that. Like, find something that just makes you, like, want to get up in the morning and do it. Something that just, like, will get you out of bed when you don't think you want to be out of bed. Like, and when you find that, pour yourself into it. And see, see, if you're rewarded for that, see how far it can take you. Those are the things that, like, more than anything, I think I want my kids, the kids that I work with to understand about Kobe. Like, yeah, fuck, you want a lot of championships. He was a great player, you know, flawed individual, sure, but found himself and there's a great dad by all accounts and all that. But the mindset, like, that mentality, the true Mamba mentality, like, take that shit and apply it to your life.

If you can do that, you would have honored that man in a way that I don't even know that he could appreciate it the impact. Of, you know, and so that's where I'm at with it, it's like super fucking sad Um, like, you know, but to your point about the world moving on, like the clock keeps ticking. And I told my son this shit three days ago, man. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem fair. The world doesn't stop. And so the challenge in times like that when you're really sad and you're all broken up is to find a way to keep getting up out of bed and keep...

Last night, a blown call changed the game. This morning, the internet, lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down

give you context and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports Slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to Sports Slice on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slic Life 12 and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking.

Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing and we're still chasing it and we don't know when we've done enough because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses.

Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth? Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person.

Join me, Kear Gaines, is we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hardway. Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. What's up, guys? This is Clivert Taylor the Fourth.

And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff, like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker, this linebacker walks up to me, he goes, Hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Time out.

Quarterback on office blue with 42. Hey, rep, my mama want you to wave at her. What? Where's she at? Hey, Miss Parker. Listen to the Clippers show on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. The story I've told myself about love, or relationships can then shape my behavior,

and that can lead me to sabotage the possibility of connection. This Mental Health Awareness Month, tune into the podcast deeply well with Debbie Brown and explore the journey of healing, self-discovery, and returning to yourself. We explore higher consciousness, emotional well-being, and the practices that help you find clarity, peace, and self-mastery in a world that can feel overwhelming.

The world is becoming lonelier. We're not becoming more social and connected. We're becoming more individualized, but we actually need people in connection. If you've been searching for a soft place to land while doing the work to become whole, this podcast is for you to hear more. Listen to deeply well with Debbie Brown from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. We're to keep doing what you're doing. right and and when you're doing that apply apply these lessons to that like find find the passion live the passion like work for it don't ever be satisfied try to be the best like and that should

take you take you really far man you take you really far in life i saw this quote i tweeted a while back and i've used it a bunch i i love it and i'll tell you why in a second i have self-doubt i have insecurity i have fear failure i have nights when i show up at the arena and i'm like my back hurts my feet hurt, my knees hurt. I don't have it. I just want to chill. We all have self-doubt. You don't deny it, but you also don't capitulate to it.

You embrace it. That's from Kobe. And it's fantastic on so many levels. I had this discussion. I have my, so I have twin daughters. The other, my, I can't say other daughter. My, Harper is, you know, straight A student, and she's a great rider. And she just, she knows what she wants.

Every day she wants to be on a horse. And that's, she wants to be great at that. and the limitations are really financial, right? I mean, in that sport. Her sister Grace, you know, she gets rife with jealousy. And what I've tried to explain to her is like, it's okay to be jealous. It's okay to be insecure. It's do you let that eat you up or do you let that energize you and use that jealousy and

insecurity to make you every day become better? and that's really the decision that you have to make. And I agree. And if that's the mama mentality, like, yeah, I think that's the true story here is the story of, this is the, do you know the evolution of man poster? Yeah. Okay. You know where it starts out like Crow Magnum hunched over and then it shows like evolution

of man at the end? It's Homo erectus, which is what we are now standing up straight. Like, I think that's all of us. I think that's that's that's that's Kobe Bryant in a nutshell but that's all of us like we're all in we think of human evolution taking millions of years like nah it's really your lifespan you know right start out and you kind of you think you know everything because you're 14 and you got some hair in your chest you know and you can make a basket and a girl likes you and you know the you got to you evolve and he evolved and that video on on his tribute night, at the end, here he is in a beautiful suit and a perfect tie. But it's not, there's no, there's no jewelry there. There's no glam there. You know, there's no, there's no lines in the side of his head.

It's just a perfect, you know, perfectly quaffed, shaved head and, you know, a slightly overgrown beard. He's just, he had grown into a man into an evolved adult. And he had used the, I'm sure his own insecurities, his own self-doubt, his fear of failure, to energize him to get him up out of bed. And that's my takeaway as well, which is, you know, like I didn't make the league like you do, like you did.

And I continue to kick to myself because I didn't believe in myself as a shooter or I'd get to a place where I'd stop working in a middle of a season or I just wouldn't take an opportunity. And it fucks with me. But then I think of, you know, why did I take the earlier red eye to be on TV, all day and then be on radio and then do all the shit I did because you know but you want to call mom mentality just the idea of I have my I have insecurities that I left something on the table

as a basketball player that I will never leave on the on the table as a broadcaster and that's what I'm trying to implore with my kids as well exact same lessons that you are with yours yeah I think I think it's a great lesson homes and that's that's uh that's that's what it's got to be bro I mean, it's, it's, that's what it's got to be for them, man. Like, they didn't, you know, unfortunately, my kids didn't really get to know them or meet them or anything like that, but that's what our house will talk about when we talk about Mamba. We won't, you know, it won't be about the points and all of that. It'll be about how are you going to approach the things in your life that you want to do,

or even more importantly, to your point that you're afraid you might not be able to do. Like, what are you going to do? You can stop, you shut it down. We had one of those last night in the bed with my 13-year-old or a 12-year-old. old. You know, he got in the bed with my wife and I late, and he had overcome, like, a seven-on-seven situation. He was playing up a couple years. It felt really inferior. It wouldn't do it. And this, like, this happened a week ago. So this was, this was, Kobe was used in this, in this conversation, like, DIA. You got to go back. Like, it didn't feel great, but you're young. Like, you're there to learn. Like, it's going to be good for you in the long run. You've got to go, and you've got to get over the feeling of being uncomfortable. If you're not uncomfortable, you don't grow. Like, you've got to grow. You've got to grow. You're, you've got to grow. You got to grow, but. And so I sent his ass back yesterday. Like, he didn't want to go.

And when he got home, he was so fucking proud of himself because he had a great night. I got, like, three phone calls at him. And I said to him, laying in the bed. I said, dude, I'm proud of you, man. I was like, this is a life lesson to this is a hurdle that everyone, you know, hopefully can overcome. They certainly will have them. And it's just what you do in that moment when you're facing fear, like, that defines you as a person, man. And I really do believe, Doug, that if anyone out there wants to take something away from the shit,

take that away from, bro. That this cat was willing to look anything. How the fuck do you become an Oscar-winning director? Doug, like, think about that shit, man. Like, you're looking at any obstacle and saying, I got this. I can do it. That's pretty cool. It's unbelievable.

It's really unbelievable. Listen, man, it was awesome to catch up. Next time I'm down there. or you're out here, you let me know, we will break bread. In the meantime, you've been incredibly gracious with your time. That was fun. Let's do it again. Anytime.

Anytime, bro. Hey, tell your wife and the kid, I know I haven't seen them in years, but tell them all I said hi. I'll do it. Thanks, Ra. All right, bro. Later. Be sure to catch the live edition of the Doug Gottlieb show weekdays at 3 p.m. Easter, noon Pacific. All right.

Thanks so much for listening, guys. I really appreciate it. Obviously, I have so many of you text me that are my friends or you tweet me, You're like, man, that was really good. However you want to communicate with your friends, this is good stuff. And some of it is, you know, our back and forth, my friendship with Rajah. And some of it is just, he's awesome and interesting and has led so far a very amazing life and our discussion about his life and Kobe Bryant.

So I hope you enjoy it. I know we broke into two. Some people like that. Some people don't. If you don't, tell me. If you do, tell me, it's always going to end up in your queue anyway. So when the next one comes up, you put it on, you listen to it. That's what I do with podcasts.

and I hope you do as well. A reminder, the Doug Gottlieb show is on daily 3 to 6 Eastern, 12 to 3 Pacific. It's timely. We react on the fly. We don't write anything out. We just react to the news of the day and give you our takes and have some of the best guests, if not the best guests in America. Remember, that's Doug Gottlieb show.

That's, you know, we have our podcast as well as the radio show. In the meantime, don't forget to subscribe, download, and rate the show. When you rate the show, I think it helps me. Gets me more, I don't know. Who knows? I don't know actually how this works. I just speak into the microphone, somebody else does all the interesting stuff.

Thank you to Rajabelle. Thank you for downloading. I'm Doug Gottlieb, and this is all both. If you love to be remembered as the person who gives the best birthday gifts, I'm here to tell you that 1-800 Flowers.com is your ultimate birthday gifting destination. 1-800 flowers has thoughtful and artfully created options that are guaranteed to deliver the best birthday surprise.

Shop thousands of unique gifts at 1-800flowers.com for exclusive offers and great values. To order today, visit 1-800flowers.com slash tune-in. That's 1-800flowers.com slash tune-in. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo, and every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the biggest moments in sports and giving you the real story.

behind the headline. And we're going straight to the source, the athletes themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions in the moment, and the stuff nobody gets to hear. Listen to SportsSlice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman helped make you fun.

This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and headwriter, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, what's good, y'all?

You're listening to Learn the Hard Way with your favorite therapist and host Kear Games. This space is about black men's experiences, having honest conversations that's really not safe to have anywhere, but you're having them with a licensed professional who knows what he's doing. How many men carry a suit or armor. It signals to the world that you not to be played with. And just because you have the capability that does not mean that you need to, listen to learn the hard way on the IHard radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. What's up, guys? This is Clivert Taylor the 4th. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff, like being an internet famous referee. We're in the

middle of a game. This linebacker walks up to me, he goes, Hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Time out. Quarterback on office blue with 42. Hey, rec, my mama want you to wave at her. What?

Where's she at? Hey, Miss Parker. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.