The Herd with Colin Cowherd - All Ball - Pt. 2 of 2: Former Gonzaga Star Dan Dickau on Building Program Foundation, 2021 Zags, NBA Experience

Episode Date: December 18, 2020

In this episode, Doug is joined by former Gonzaga superstar and NBA player Dan Dickau for the second part of a two part interview to discuss his breaking onto the national scene at Gonzaga, building the foundation of what the program has become, his NBA experience across multiple teams, and how he's staying involved in the game. Make sure you download, rate and subscribe here to get the latest All Ball Podcasts! Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter.

Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque.

Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On the Look Back at it podcast.

For 1979, that was a big moment for me. 84 was big to me. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a year, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. With our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite authors. Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s.

84 was a wild year. It was a wild year. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th.

You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifers Show. This is a place for raw, unfilled conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Remember all those big dreams used to have? And then life made other plans. With a Mercedes-Benz Sprinter van, it's time to bring those dreams back.

Start your own business or commit to van life with a Mercedes-Benz Sprinter van. Now, you could win the Mercedes-Benz Sprinter mode four by four that we have. enter the Dan Patrick show Ultimate Camping Rigs Sweepstakes. To enter, get official rules. Visit Danpatrick.com or Fox SportsRadio.com. Have to do it by February 2nd for your chance to win. If you love to be remembered as the person who gives the best birthday gifts, I'm here to tell you that 1-800flowers.com is your ultimate birthday gifting destination. 1-800 flowers has thoughtful and artfully created options that are guaranteed to deliver the best birthday surprise.

Shop thousands of unique gifts at 1800flowers.com for exclusive offers and great values. To order today, visit 1800flowers.com slash tune in. That's 1,800flowers.com slash tune in. Hey, welcome into the newest all ball. I'm Doug Gottlieb, and we can't tell you how much we appreciate you downloading this here podcast. Our guest for a second consecutive pod is none of than Dan Dickow, who was just a great great basketball player, especially his last two collegiate seasons at Gonzaga, who's national player of the year, before becoming a first-round draft pick in the NBA.

On today's episode, wait to you hear kind of the ironic, full-circle nature, not just of the first time he played against Washington or his first game with Gonzaga, but also an NBA game he tried to get into and end up not getting into his first year in the NCAA tournament when they went to the Sweet 16. and where he end up being drafted. That plus offenses that you fit into, you don't fit into, the idea of a backup point guard and why he struggled with that role for certain coaches.

There is a, there's just, this is good eating right here. Really, really good eating. Quick reminder of the Doug Outleap show is 3 to 6 Eastern, 12 to 3 Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, Fox Sports Radio.com, the iHeartRadio app. You should download this, subscribe, rate it. write a review because when you write a review, I think I make more money.

And if I don't, well, we're just going to test you for your writing acumen. That's really what it kind of comes down to. Anyway, when we last left Dan Dickow, he was discussing his transfer to Gonzaga from the University of Washington, working with Tommy Lloyd during his year off. Now we continue. During our last episode with Dan Dick Al and the car stories, we left you with

Gonzaga Tommy Lloyd unbelievable workouts he was a grinder you guys became tight like butt cheeks right and

so I guess here's I got a bunch of things that I want to get to but how do you know you're getting better I mean I guess it's when I sat out

I did what you were talking about doing, which is Golden West College was coach by Tom McCleskey, who's my high school coach for my freshman year. And so I got to do like a bunch of things. One is I got to be an assistant coach during games. And then I got to kind of same thing, just be an alpha and take on different roles during practice and just try and carry a team. And I really felt myself kind of getting better. But what about did you change your body? Did you change your diet? Was it just all in the gym? and take me through the entire process of that year? Yeah, I did.

I don't know if I necessarily changed my diet, but I did change the workout weightlifting regiment. When I was at University of Washington, our strengths and conditioning coaches that were focused on basketball at that time, we were an afterthought because it was a football school. So really, I'm pretty darn sure. The two strength coaches didn't even know my name

the whole two years I was there. It's just, oh, that's that skinny young kid. And so I really, I mean, I didn't have anything that really helped me athletically while I was at University of Washington.

It's weird. I like how you're describing it is weird because I'll be totally honest with you. I never saw you play in A. But I remember when we got ready to play you and you were a freshman and you came in a Stillwater, the billing to us and to me was like you were Pist of Pete. Like that was the reputation, was like, this is a Pistel Pete Marevich type dude.

He's going to come in. And whatever minutes he gets, like, he's different than the rest of those guys. And yet I don't, like, obviously now 20 years later, it feels like, and I agree with you on the strengthening because I was in Notre Dame, we basically did a football strength program. Sure. Football schools. I mean, that's what they were. Yeah, but it was the football schools should allow them the resource, like the show on the resources.

And maybe it's changed because I do think like I know Oklahoma State now, they have a basketball dedicated. Jake does a great job there. But it's interesting. Like that really affects you because I was 160 pounds when I walked in to Notre Dame. And I worked with Marv Mervovich and whatever. And I was athletically really good, just needed some strength. And we, that was when creatine was first big.

Yeah. And, and dude, I was. They were great juice, right? yeah, I was swall. I was like 177 our first guy. I gained 17 pounds, but it wasn't a bad. Like I looked great, but I wasn't flying all over the place. And so one of the things that I did when I got back to Orange County was like I got back to get my diet right and my body right.

And I looked more like a basketball player. I leaned out some as opposed to being a weight lift. So I was just wondering how much that played. Because, and look, WCC was not. the level of the pack 12, but you went from being a good player. You play with a broken foot when you're at Washington to being the best player in college basketball. And I'm just, in addition to the workouts, I would assume that your body change a little bit

as well. Yeah, you're exactly right. Because I was a kid who started getting interested in weightlifting as a sophomore in high school, but no matter what I did, I couldn't put on weight. I couldn't put on size. I couldn't put on strength. That was just, you know, the way my body was maturing. My redshirt year at Gonzaga that you're alluding to, we had a really good strength coach,

but he was a former football player and he was kind of from the bodybuilding type mold. So it was a little bit of fine line of he was still learning how to tailor it into basketball specific movements. Gonzagin now has one of the best strength coaches in the country, Travis Knight, but the former guy that I used to work with and the elite eight group worked with, he was all about putting on size and strength. And so I think his workouts combined with the fact that I wasn't playing games and I put a ton of effort into the weight room at that time.

And then my body just finally caught up. I really started putting on some size and strength and muscle mass. I was my senior year at Gonzaga, I was a legit 190 where in high school when I graduated, I was probably about 172. Right now, to this day, I'm about 185, but when I got to the NBA, I actually lost weight. I was about 185. After I tore my Achilles, I went down to about 175 because I realized in the NBA, I wasn't going to push anybody around. It didn't matter how strong I was.

What mattered to me in the NBA was my balance, the ability to take a hit and stay on the course, on the path, on the direction that I had. So that redshirt year really kind of tied in all the basketball workouts, my body maturing. And then the weight room really kind of helped as well. Your first game back, do you remember who you played? I remember the first preseason game. This was when they had these old traveling teams, right? Yeah, EA sports and stuff.

Yeah. Yeah. So we played a CBA team called the Yakima Sun Kings, who were a really good team. in the CBA at the time. I had 29 points in the first game back, and I remember walking off that court being like, all right, I think this is going to work. And it was a lot of fun.

I looked back at that game, and actually I saw a box score a couple of years ago from that game, and David Vantorpool was on the Sun Kings, and he's kind of one of the next up-and-coming guys in the NBA who's going to be a head coach. He's been on the Blazer staff for a number of years now. Okay, I think you're, I think you're, first big game at G.U was against Arizona.

You guys played Arizona. Yeah. On the road. Yeah, you played. I'm looking at your schedule. Okay. So you open up Eastern Washington. I'd see.

I'm at that said, now was Jackaletti the coach at Eastern when you're playing? Jackaletti was the coach that year. And so, yeah, everything kind of came full circle because as we talked about in the first part, yeah, he was a guy who recruited me to UW.

And now he's the head coach at Eastern. It was kind of interesting. But to kind of wrap things up even more and come full circle, Coach Jack Letty is a great friend of mine to this day. I actually actually texted with him the other day. He's on staff at St. Louis. Femominable guy. But yeah, he was the head coach at Eastern at that time. All right. So you busted them up. You busted up UW Green Bay. You beat Idaho by 50, running it up on that poor Idaho. And so you go and play Arizona. So now, Like, you're a guy who, your whole life, as we talked about, part one, you dream of playing in the pack 10. And you're at Washington mixed results.

Now you're at Gonzaga with your boys, where a place where you're the guy and you're a lot more comfortable. Do you remember that first matchup with Arizona? Yeah, absolutely. I remember everything about it because, as you mentioned, it was a chance to go back and play against a pack 10 team. And they were ranked at the time. I think they had, so Jason Gardner was the point guard on the West Coast that after Barron had went to the NBA was getting a lot of the attention media-wise. So it was Jason Gardner, Gilbert Arenas, who was unbelievable.

They had Michael Wright. They had Richard Jefferson, Luke Jackson, the big tall, skinny guy, Ricky, Ricky Anderson, I believe it was. They were low. Yeah, his dad, Ricky was, Ricky's dad was the coach at Long Beach City. right? Okay. Lauren was.

They had. Yeah, Lauren was. They were loaded. And, you know, everyone was still kind of on the fence with Gonzaga. Like, hey, you know, they were back to backs. They went to elite eight, suite 16. The guys that got them there, they're gone. It's Casey Calvary's team that we don't know about Blake Step the freshman.

We don't know about Dan Dicow, the transfer from UW. So went in there with a lot of confidence. Played really well, really well. I think we were up. midway or late in the second half. And Casey Calvary got a phantom fifth foul call. He was nowhere near the play. Nowhere near the play.

It was like a loose ball in the middle of the key. Casey was about six to eight feet away from the scrum. And he gets called for it. And everything just kind of went downhill from there. And we ended up losing only by about maybe six or something, if I remember, right. But that was a 14. Okay, well, my memory made it a little closer game. It's okay.

Sometimes it gets away from you at the end. It was probably a four-point game or something when that happened when he fouled out and we just couldn't hang on. But the other thing that I remember about this game is so towards the end of the game, we're on offense. Somebody takes a shot. And you know how point guards, if you're on the baseline after like a driving kick and your momentum's taking you out of the basket, a rebound.

happens and you'll just take a swipe whoever gets yeah but you'll take a swipe at whoever's getting the rebound i took a swipe at the ball because richard jefferson was was getting the rebound and my finger stuck in his jersey and i felt uh uh like a pop i'm like oh no so i'm running down court and i'm shaking my hand trying to to make it feel better and i was like okay this isn't good so i dribble down and this was on my left hand so thankfully it's not my dominant hand i'm dribbling down the floor next possession throw one hand pass don't have to do anything else with it. Second, next possession after that,

I'm coming down the floor and I have to throw a skip pass. So I pick the ball up with two hands and I throw a skip pass. And when I threw that skip pass, I heard a snap in my finger and I looked down and my fingers pointing in the opposite direction. Because, like, after I poked the ball or poked at the ball with Richard Jefferson, like it was kind of funny looking, but it wasn't awful. and so I just kept playing.

So immediately we called timeout, and I walk over to our trainer, Steveo, Steve's along. I was like, Steve, something's wrong with my finger here. And I'm starting to, like, my arm's shaking because it hurts and something's not right. He looks at it. He goes, yeah, that's not good. Look away. I was like, what? He goes, look away.

And he popped my finger back in. And he goes, all right, go ahead and go back out there. So I went out and played like the final minute and a half or whatever it might have been. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all,

embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying.

Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined.

And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment.

And the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.

And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tapped Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do a little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam Jett.

And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack all day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now.

Thank you finishing that sentence. Yes. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast. or wherever you get your podcasts.

Welcome to my new podcast, learn the hard way with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kyr Games. And in recognition of Mental Health Awareness Month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests.

I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it. and we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses.

Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth, or are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person.

Join me, Kear Gaines, is we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, learn the hard way. Open your free, iHeartRadio app search learn the hard way and listen now with a with a finger that was awful so after the game then we go to the tucson the tucson hospital and i'll remember this plain as day i'm i'm in my jersey still it's just me and the trainer we go to we go to the hospital and uh you know it's a

college division one team you get a little bit of ahead of the line in in the emergency room right there was somebody who was jumped in a gang fight sitting in a in a wheelchair bleeding all down his face and i and stevo and i are like looking around and like shouldn't you guys help this person first i got a bad finger just a finger yeah so we popped it back in it's fine yeah we go back get x-rays yeah it's broken whatever it's like oh man whatever we've come back out and this is like an hour later the kid is still sitting there in the same spot. And I was just shaking my head. It was unbelievable.

It was disappointing to see that happen to a kid. If you love to be remembered as the person who gives the best birthday gifts, I'm here to tell you that 1-800flowers.com is your ultimate birthday gifting destination. 1-800 flowers has thoughtful and artfully created options that are guaranteed to deliver the best birthday surprise. Shop thousands of unique gifts at 1-800flowers.com for exclusive offers and great values. To order today, visit 1-800flowers.com slash tune-in. That's 1-800flowers.com slash tune-in. Adoption of teens from foster care is a topic not enough people know about, and we're here to change that.

I'm April Dinwiddie host of the new podcast, Navigating Adoption, presented by Adopt U.S. Kids. Each episode brings you compelling real-life adoption stories told by the families that of them with commentary from experts. Visit Adoptuskids.org slash podcast or subscribe to navigating adoption presented by Adopt U.S. Kids. Brought to you by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services Administration for

Children and Families and the Act Council. What grows in the forest? Trees? Sure. Know what else grows in the forest? Our imagination, our sense of wonder, and our family bonds grow too. Because when we disconnect from this and connect

with this, We reconnect with each other. The forest is closer than you think. Find a forest near you and start exploring at Discovertheforest.org. Brought to you by the United States Forest Service and the Ad Council. So your next game, Washington comes to town. You go back to the kennel, the old kennel, and UW comes to town. Now, at this time, Romar's the coach, right?

I mean, No. Still Bender? Still Bender. Yes. Still Bender. So that was maybe my most disappointing and frustrating game that I've ever, I ever missed at the college level.

Okay. Wait, so just to set it up, just so you understand. So when I left Notre Dame and unlike your experience at U.S., like I don't blame them, right? I mean, there's no,

what, do I wish we had any sort of, transition game, secondary break. Like, were there things about Notre Dame in terms of basketball-wise that I thought could have been better? Yes. And was I considering leaving even before I had to transfer? Yes. I think lots of freshmen go through that.

But I nearly went to Marquette. And there was a myriad of reasons. Mike Dean was the coach. He's a crazy person, but he was incredibly passionate as a recruiter. And I always dug Marcus before Marquette kind of hit it big, right, with Tom Crean and them. But the big draw to me was get to play Notre Dame. I want to kick their ass.

Yeah. Like that's, I think any competitors, like, you don't know what you had until you had it, you know, until you lost it. And I always wanted to play Notre Dame, want to play Notre Dame. At the end of the day, a big reason, there's a lot of reasons I chose Oklahoma State instead of Notre Dame, but I said a market. And one of the big reasons was like I knew I was losing myself in my desire. to say fuck you, right?

That was really, I was, and I had to get kind of, what do I really need? What kind of place do I want to play at, et cetera? You leave, as you said, like, it didn't feel like they wanted you to stay, even though you were one of the biggest recruits in the West Coast when you got there. And you spend a year off, okay, do you remember kind of the lead up? Like, because you get so wrapped up in the Arizona, game and you got the finger and now you fly home. Like, do you remember the lead up to it and, and, and what that, what all those emotions

were like? You know, I, I do to some extent, but, you know, the only guys that, that I really stayed in decent contact with from Udub would have been Michael Johnson, who, uh, came in with me at the same time at, at Udub. And then Grant Leap, who's now a head coach at Seattle Pacific. Those were the only two guys I really stayed in touch with. after I decided to transfer. And so I kind of was excited to see those guys play.

There was another young guy would have been Marlon Shelton, his dad Lonnie played in the NBA for a while. He was a year younger than me at UW. It was nice to see him in person when they came to Spokane to playoffs. But really, I didn't keep a lot of connections with those guys. And I think a lot of it probably honestly had to do with the time of technology. now there's the social media aspect where you know if you're being recruited by a similar school as another kid across the country you're you get to know them at an early age direct messages

Twitter posts Instagram all that stuff so it was a lot different than and so I don't think the connections weren't necessarily there for me anymore even though it was only a year gone by but I think you know the frustration and the disappointment that I wasn't able to play was absolutely there. And I can take it a step further because the following year, Doug, we played at Udub. So this is my senior year. And now obviously I've proven myself, we go to Seattle and Coach Benner was still the coach.

And we go to Seattle. And the first two made baskets of the game, I hit back-to-back threes. Bang, bang, six points, like literally in the first two minutes. And so on the back of my head, I'm thinking, I'm going to give these dudes four. tonight. I'm going to give them 40. Well, I ended up, I don't, I mean, I don't want to blame it on any official, but I picked up, bing, bing, two quick fouls in that right after those made threes. And then I think I picked up a third, the second coach few put me back in in the first half. Only game my senior year I was in single digits was six points. Every other game, my senior

year, I was in double figures. That game right there maybe sits with me. me more than any other like, man, I wanted to give those guys 40 and I ended up with six. Your junior year, you guys went through this little losing stretch there. You know, obviously, you know, your finger and, and then you guys have this like treacherous road thing or you go and you play Florida on the road, but you, and then you lose to Green Bay. But then you guys kind of figured it out with the exception of Santa Clara on the road, I think. Like, once you got in the league, you didn't live. lose a game. You went like 13 and 1 plus win the conference tournament.

Did was there a moment? Was there a was there a like a a Dan Dickow meeting? Uh, that that turned that thing into a sweet 16 year. A couple things. So you mentioned, um, kind of a low. So and I take great pride in this because coach few always judges his point cards, not on points, not on assist, turnovers, et cetera. He, did you win the game or not? because he understands different players have different strengths, and he wants you to play within your strengths to help the team win. When I was out, we went five and four, and that's that stretch you're talking about.

If you take out those nine games during the course of my two years, I think I had the highest winning percentage of any point guard that played at Gonzaga. If not, I'd be top two or three. So I take great pride in that. But on that trip that you're talking about, Florida and then up to Wisconsin Green Bay. Gonzaga always has a culture of great leadership from their old seniors, juniors and seniors, whoever it may be.

And a lot of times the leadership doesn't come from their best player or their leading score. We lost at Wisconsin Green Bay after losing to Florida. And Boise, by the way. And Boise. And Boise. Yes. So we lost in Wisconsin Green Bay. And Mark Spink, only true Zag fans will remember that name, Mark Spank, lit everybody up in the locker room, up and down.

I mean, from, you know, I was spared because I couldn't play, but I'm sitting there like, okay, I agree with everything you're saying, right? But he lit every single person up and down that locker room from manager to teammate. And come to find out later on, the coaching staff was in the hallway. And the second they were about to come in and kind of give their pregame talk, Mark Spink just went off on us. And so Mark Spink basically just set the tone for the rest of the year. Like, guys, there's no more BS in a round. It's on us.

We've lost enough games. We have to get through this if we're going to get back to the NCAA tournament, which we all know we're good enough to do. We all want to do. We don't want to let this Gonzaga run end on us. And so that was the turning point. You mentioned the Santa Clara loss. that was an interesting game because we just couldn't score.

We could not score. Santa Clara was really good at that time. They had some good backcourt guys. They had some really good big big big big big big big. But that game was fun for me because I had a stretch in the second half where I scored 22 straight points. Like literally. I watched the video a few years back. Then this was the coaches film because not every Gonzaga game was on TV at the time.

I had 22 straight points. and that kept us in it to some extent, but we still ended up losing that game. But yeah, those were some fun memories. We talked in the last episode about when you're a freshman, like kind of living with some mistakes and you wish it at Washington, they would have done that. When you got hurt, Kyle, Kyle Bankhead, and Blake obviously had to kind of pick up the load.

Is there any thought that like now, years later, when you got hurt, they developed, Moore kind of threw them in the deep end, right? Absolutely. Then you, right? I almost, I thought, I remember watching that team going like, well, that's when you beat Virginia and you get all the way to the Sweet 16, like maybe none of that happens, if not for their development by fire, because you were out and it was during a time

which you played those road games against good competition. Yeah, you're spot on with that because, I mean, Blake was a tremendous player as a freshman. I mean, he basically came in knowing knowing he was. was going to start alongside me in the back court. Blake was no nonsense. All he cared about was winning. I mean, he got the outlet. He was the point guard on that possession. I got the outlet. I was the point guard on that possession. But when I got hurt, all the point guard responsibilities fell on him for that nine-game stretch. And yeah, we lost some games, but he went through some tremendous growth opportunities. You know, you mentioned the Florida game.

I remember that game sitting there on the bench not being able to play because of my broken finger. And I think Blake had like eight or nine turnovers and he struggled from the field. But he did not back down. And that was a good Florida team. They had Teddy DuPay. They had Brett Nelson. Udonis Haslam was one of their bigs. I mean, they were good.

And Blake as a freshman didn't back down. He just didn't obviously make the right play. but he he was one of those guys that was headstrong and was just going to keep going until he figured things out. And then obviously he did. You know, so we jailed extremely well. What do you remember about that NCAA tournament? Well, we went to Memphis and, you know, Virginia wasn't, I don't think they respected us. You know, we came in and we took it to them in the first half.

And then, you know, we kind of just hung on. We hung on in that second half after they made some big runs, Roger Mason Jr. Made some big plays down the stretch to make it close. I missed, or actually I had a layup attempt blocked with maybe six, seven seconds left. And Casey Calvary picked it up, put it in the bucket, and then we dodged a bullet when I think it was Roger Mason missed the three at the buzzer. So we obviously played well, but we didn't play our best in that game. So that gave us a lot of confidence going into round two. And we dodged a bullet as well in round two because Oklahoma got beat by Indiana State,

which was a little bit of a, it wasn't a huge surprise, but it was a surprise. I mean, Oklahoma had a really good back court that year, Hollis Price and Qantas White, I believe it was. Great defensive guards that, you know, they would have been really good matchup. But Indiana State won. And then, you know, we just, we just kind of grinded out the wind. against Indiana State. We didn't do anything special. We didn't do anything off the charts good. We were just the better team by far. And then because I think this would have probably gone on to

kind of showing you how Coach Few really wasn't kind of aware of things just yet. And we weren't Gonzaga yet. Like we didn't pack enough stuff to go to Atlanta because, you know, I don't know if the coaches thought we were going to lose and come home or what it might be. But we get the message in Memphis is like, hey, guys, we're not going back to Spokane. We're going on to Atlanta. And everyone's like, we packed for four days. What are we supposed to do? Literally, I mean, guys wore the same sweat outfits.

I mean, by the end of that NCAA tournament run, it was bad because guys were in the same outfits for. Yeah, but you know, like, my senior, we did that. we went from Syracuse to Buffalo, Buffalo to Syracuse, and we did the same thing. One, I only remember wearing gray Nike sweats my entire college basketball experience.

I remember you get the first pair, and you're like, these are amazing. You don't want to wash them because they have that, they're like, they're so soft when you first get them, right? Like, don't wash them.

Don't wash them. And then finally you wash them, but then you just like live in them. And then you wait until usually right before the tournament, you get the new game shorts again. because they get too short, right? They shrink up. And sometimes you get new sweats as well.

So I'm not sure what to change your gear. But those memories and like, look, dude, you played in the league. You did a lot of incredible things. The games are amazing. I feel like the time in the NCAA tournament and the conference tournament when it's just you and the guys and there's nothing to do. Like, you know, school ain't nothing. And this is also before cell phone.

so guys can't be constantly staring at their phones. Like some guys were still headphone guys, right? With disc, with disc men, you know, whatever. But just the idea, it's just you and those guys and nothing but time to tell jokes and stories. And some guys annoy the shit out of you, right? Some guys are like way funnier than you thought. You know, there's always a manager that you pick on.

There's always a manager that's kind of super cool and thinks he's super cool. There's assistant coaches that you hate. There's coaches that you like the whole thing. that to me is the best part of the whole deal. Yeah, there's like we. So many dynamics. And okay, so I want you to,

I'll tell a story and then I want you to, if you can think of one, one story like it. All right. So again, this is my senior year. We're all by now like grownups. Like I was 24 my senior because I was a whole back.

And then I redshirted it. Right. So I'm oldest, oldest dirt. We're all kind of 22, 23, 24. And,

uh, we win in Buffalo. And coach is like, and we should have gone home, really. We should have just gotten away from it. But we didn't. He's like, you guys want to go home for a day or stay here. And we're like, stay here. Right.

So we had a bus and we went to like Niagara Falls and we just kind of bullshit around and try. Anyway, we had one cassette movie for the bus. And it was something about Mary. And we watched it, I don't know, six, seven times. And by the end, like, you know, you know, you. be in layup lines for a game, be like, have you ever been to Santiago, Chile?

Twice last year, right? Like, we're quoting movies as we're hooping throughout the tournament. Like, it was kind of, it became our thing. And so even we had one guy in our team who nobody liked, but even by then, we're like, you know what? He's not that bad. Like, he kind of bought in, he kind of bought in for that, for those two weeks.

Is there any memory you have of that tournament of Memphis to Atlanta? where you guys are stuck. It's in the south. It's very different, right? You're still Gonzag. You're still the little engine that could. Any member you have of that trip? Yeah, you know, we, there was,

the Lakers were playing the Hawks at a, on a, at Phillips Arena. I don't know what it's called now. And we had no connection to get tickets to the NBA game. And, Jermaine Forbes, who was, from London, myself and Jay Shirel, who was, you know, from kind of just outside Seattle, they were both, the three of us were like, let's just walk down and see if we can scalp a ticket,

you know, because we couldn't get free tickets or whatever. It was a Laker, so obviously it was sold out. The two of them had never been to an NBA game. So we just, we took a taxi down to the Phillips and we were going to try to get a ticket. to the game. Well, we're standing there, right? And it's connected to the CNN building. And we're standing there and somebody taps me on the shoulder and says, hey, are you such and such? I'm like, yeah. I was like, what are you doing here? I'm like, well, we're going to try to get tickets to the game. He's like, well, instead of that, do you want to come, can you, do you mind coming up to

CNN building and doing a sit-down interview with Vince Chalini? I'm like, what? So, We were going to walk, we were going to go to the game instead. And end up, the three of us went up to CNN headquarters, which was mind boggling at the time because they had CNN SI and Vince Chalini and I did a little small interview. And then by the time, you know, that was over, you know, we didn't get into the game because there was no tickets left. And we also didn't want to break the rules. like can we accept a free entrance to a game so that was kind of a unique little story you know during the NCAA tournament just three random dudes because jay and i weren't close friends

germane and i were not close friends obviously we were good friends because we were teammates but you know we just wanted to go sneak into an NBA game yeah it's amazing that reminds me of like when i was in russia i had this guy sergey chicalco was like our best player and my first trip to moscow Like I didn't speak word Russian and he didn't speak English and he comes. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential.

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I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement

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It's up to me, like we get out the plane and it goes, McDonald's? And I was like, yes, let's go. McDonald's.

And I just followed him around Moscow. He took me to McDonald's, right? Like, it's the same thing. Okay, so, like,

the whole thing is fascinating to me about the, the perception that most of America has and the reality of what it's really like in big time college basketball. I'm not disputing that there are a portion of guys who get money and that they'll, you know, that they skate the rules or whatever.

I operate under the presumption that GU is not like that. I've never, never had any whisper of anything. When I played at two schools, it wasn't like that. And we used to kind of take it as a point of pride, right? Like we, you play against teams you think are dirty. and it was like we do things the right way. We get up at 6th the morning and run. Was that a point of pride for Gonzaga?

And it wasn't just that you guys built it, but you built it by everybody's estimation the right way. Yeah, without a doubt. Yeah, I can look you straight in the face on this Zoom call and say nobody got any type of special treatment at Gonzaga when I was there and nobody has gotten any sense. I mean, and that just speaks to the level of, expectations and the level of class that Coach Few runs that program with, you know,

the biggest difference between when I was there and now is the amount of gear that Nike gives those guys. It's like, good Lord, this is ridiculous. You talked about the sweats to start the season. My red shirt year, Doug, I had hand-me-down sweats that were a size too small. And if you can believe that they were a size too small, I'm only six foot. And so I went from Hammy Down Sweets, my red shirt year.

My senior year, finally Nike started sending shoes in multiple shipments throughout the season. So I was taken care of fine. Now you look at what these guys have. You'll go into the locker room. And dude's got like eight pairs of shoes

in their lockers. Like they've got probably 12 dry fit shirt. They're geared up like an NBA team. Right? I mean, it's like hey, Tommy, be Mike. throw me some gear. And I obviously with COVID can't get down to practice and kind of, you know, pitch him hell for not having the latest gear. But it's like, holy cow, what don't these programs have now? If you love to be remembered as the person who gives the best birthday gifts, I'm here to tell you that

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Find a forest near you and start exploring at Discovertheforest.org. Brought to you by the United States Forest Service and the ad council. Real quick, favorite hoop shoes you've ever hooped in. You know, I think the Kobe 5s

were pretty darn good. The Jordan, the patent leather ones, I wore those. I wore those a prom. senior year. Did you really? Yeah. Yeah, I wore the, I had the all white ones in college.

I wore those. And my family got me the black, black ones with the bright red for Christmas last year. And I've only worn them once. And my kids are like, why don't you wear those more? My son, who's 14, he gets it. He's like, take care of those, dad.

Everyone else is like, how come you don't wear them? I was like, well, you know. Mine's 11. And I got those for him like three, four years. ago and all of a sudden now he wants a sneaker collection you know and he's like dad i'm sorry i didn't know you got me some cool kicks do you still have those is like no man your your mom gave those away she you said you said you didn't like him and i was like you're he's like i was crazy i didn't know i'm so sorry i'm like all right you were like seven at the time like what am i what am i what am i

going to do um uh your senior year is fascinating to me because you pretty much bawled out like my memory of it was you dominated college basketball You're the best player. It was must see TV. But what's interesting about it is it started bad. It ended bad, right? You lost to Illinois. First game of the year.

You lost to Wyoming. You were badly underseated and you lost to Wyoming in the pit. So now years later, and I'm sorry I'm bringing up bad memories, but that's how our minds work, right? Now years later, do you think of all the amazing nights, right? and all the wins and all the dudes you gave it to, or do you ever get trapped in the losses? A little both, to be honest with you. You know, going into that senior year,

I knew that I was going to have a chance to have a really good year. I played for USA basketball and World Year University Games right beforehand. I struggled during that tournament, and I think it kind of lit a fire under me even more. in the preseason to make sure that I was prepared and ready to go to have a great year. And you mentioned, you know, the opening season loss. We went to Illinois. And Frank Williams was another one of those kind of solid point guards that was getting a lot of recognition.

I played well, but they were just bigger and better than us that day. We ended up, I think we at one point we had like a winning streak that season. I was with San Diego, who was really good at the time. You know, had a couple really nice non-conference wins, in particular. St. Joe's, we beat them at the buzzer, not off the buzzer in the last 10 seconds of the game. When they had Jemir Nelson, Delante West, Marvin O'Connor, they were really good. That was the year before, I believe, they were 31 and 0 or whatever it was to start the season. But yeah, you mentioned that Wyoming game.

And to this day, I can honestly say that was the most disappointing loss. One of two most disappointing losses in my career. The other would have been a high school state semi-final game. But the Wyoming game, I mean, you got to be kidding me. The NCAA tournament selection committee, who years later I found out the Arizona AD was kind of heading it up. And I don't know how badly I want to put the same. out there. But I heard that he wanted Gonzaga put in their place from secondhand sources. So I don't

know how direct that is, but he wasn't happy about Gonzaga kind of continuing to build their profile. So we're ranked sixth in the country, and we get a six seat, a six seat for the sixth ranked team in the country. Not only that, we have to go play a conference champion in Wyoming at a gym that is at elevation like their school and a gym that's in their conference, New Mexico. Like, that wouldn't happen these days with even more eyes on the NCAA tournament than what there was, you know, 20-some years ago. So, you know, I do sound bitter and frustrated because I am. That was the worst draw that I can remember in the NCAA tournament, either being around or really kind of look at it and be like, wow, that one's weird. You know, so that being said, that was a bad draw.

But at the end of the day, we played our worst game of the year by far. Worst game of the year by far. I think Blake and I, we both struggled. I think I was like six of 21 or something from the field. Blake, I don't even think was that good. We both struggled. I think as a team we shot upper 20s, low 30s from the field, and we still had a chance to win. We were still in the game in the final minute.

and we had played our worst game of the year. And then, you know, we just couldn't get it done. That's that to this day, I have not watched that game in its entirety. Blake was one of 13. You were seven, 24. Okay. And neither one is. And Corey was five of 14.

Yeah. What was Roney? Because Roney would have been a freshman. But he wasn't quite ready. He played 22 minutes. Let's do is one of three. Okay. And that was big simply because that Wyoming team had some dudes.

They had some big guys on the interior. Josh Davis, who went on to play a few years in the NBA. He was really good. And then they had, I'm drawing a blank on the big guys' names. They had two big Nigerians. Uche, Uche, Sunwu Amade was one of them. And then they had the little guards were Jay Strait and Marcus Bailey. they did a good little squad there like that that was one of those that was one of those

confluence of you guys it wasn't just that you were underseated but the mountain west was underseated for a long time the mountain west would get my brother was at sannie estate and they were like dude are you kidding me like we got to play like our conference champion is to play glenzaga like that that didn't make sense to them let alone to you yeah yeah it's uh thanks for bringing that one Doug I do what I can do what I can look dude I mean I mean, almost all of us lose our last game, you know? Yeah, you're right. And, you know, the seating thing is, I mean, hell, with my first year in the tournament,

we were picked last and we end up winning the Big 12 South. We get a buy and we lose to Texas who's a 10 seed in the big, big 12 tournament. And we get like an eight seed. And we got Duke in the second game. You know, so we beat George Washington. It was good. They had Shanta Rogers. And then we played Duke.

And, you know, games tied to it two and a half minutes to go. I call it timeout. We did have a timeout, but it was our last timeout because I couldn't, my coach was making a sign that I, we didn't have signs for plays. And he's doing this.

And I, what are you, I don't even know what you're talking about. So I call the timeout. We run a play. Our best player got three open looks and just missed them. So I, I know the bad seating and then the,

how close it is. And then look, my last game, I could not have, we could not have played worse. We played that same Florida team you talked about only the year before. And they have like, if you go back and look,

they had like Matt Bonner, Edanus has some Mike Miller. I mean, they had just Justin Hamilton became a, you know, a second round pick. They had just dudes. But our game plan was shitty. We played shitty. We had some dudes that were sick and became sick, whatever.

But it just, it sucks. So here's that, here's why I wanted to get to that game. I think of all the memories I have in sports. And there's a lot of strong ones. One of the most emotional ones is being in, Syracuse, New York in one of those locker rooms and looking around at a bunch of guys and realizing I'm never going to play with them again. And how much I truly care about them as people and players and how unbelievable the experiences and how long it seems at the time.

Like, you know how it is in college basketball. You're like, fuck, I got to go to practice again. It's cold out. Like, I don't, I don't want to see them, you know, or the film session or, you know, Scattered. We're like, dude, I don't need. I know what they run. I've done this enough. and then it's over.

Like the, it's, you wake up, I mean, you experience this in the Sweet 16. You're thinking about the phone. It's over. Do you remember in the pit after that game what that feeling was like? Because you had, like, again, I cannot undersell as much how great a year you had. But then there's that feeling of, I'm never going to do this with these guys again, will you truly care about. Yeah, it was crushing.

I remember, you know, with. I don't know, 15 seconds left or whatever on the game clock. And other team, Wyoming shooting free throws and Kyle Bankhead, who you had mentioned earlier, he was my roommate, my senior year. I think we're, Corey Violet was my roommate on the road. But Kyle Bankhead was one of my roommates back in Spokane. He's now assistant coach at UNC Greensboro, kind of working his way up the coaching path. But I remember game is basically over, 15.

seconds are left while shooting free throws he puts his arm around me and tears are just streaming down my face because it's like dude it's over just like you mentioned like in a instant it's over you know you work so hard you put all the time and effort and energy and passion into having the best career having the best season that you can have and then the disappointment because i knew we i didn't have a great game and i knew we had i didn't have a great game and i knew we didn't have a good game and how much it meant to all of us to kind of advance in the NCAA tournament not just the first round but as far as possible i Gonzaga at that point we still were we don't think we were we weren't true final four worthy type of program but we believed it that

year without a doubt we believed it and so and then that's the biggest thing in sports as well as in anything in life. If you believe it, you can go out and achieve it. But, you know, it was just crushing to lose that game and then walk up the long tunnel ramp way there and get in the locker room and just remember in the lot, you know, I don't remember what Coach Few said. I don't remember what Coach Greer said, but I just remember just a completely crushed and defeated group of guys. Like, we couldn't believe that it just ended. A magical season. and just ended the way it had. But you're right.

I mean, you, I mean, you walk out of that locker room and all of a sudden, you know, you're no longer a college basketball player. And for me, I was like, wow, okay, well, you know, it does look like I'm going to be going to the NBA. My dad at the time had kind of started talking to some agents and trying to kind of prepare me to make a decision in those regards. But, you know, he wanted me to talk about it like that night. I'm like, dude, what are you talking about?

We just lost. Give me some time. So, you know, it was, it was, you know, those are some bittersweet moments, but definitely a crushing feeling when you know it's over because it meant so much. How did you pick your agent? So, as I had mentioned, my dad at the time kind of whittled it down to about five alongside conversations with Coach Vue, who they felt was really. good. And after that, it was really, it was going to be on me to make the decision with input

from my fiance, who's now my wife. So came down to Mark Bartolstein, who ended up being my agent all my years later. I'm still with his agency who represents me on the broadcasting side or coaching if I ever go that path. And then I talked to Bill Duffy at length the number of times. he was a finalist. I talked to Aaron Goodwin and met with him a number of times who was one of the biggest agents in the time right around there. He had Jamal Crawford, Damon Stadamire, Gary Payton. He was the guy who had LeBron coming out of high school.

Arn Talham and Bob Myers were the other tandem that I kind of was down to. And it's an interesting and unique selection process because at the end of the day, they can all offer you almost the same thing. You know, they all, if they're as respected as that group was, they're all going to basically get the same intel from front offices. They're going to get you in the same workouts with teams leading up to the draft. They're all going to help you prepare as best you can. At that point, it just comes down to who are you most comfortable with?

Who do you think has your back more than other guys? And, you know, Bill Duffy had also signed Jay Williams that year, And I kind of felt like, okay, well, we're two point guards. He's probably going to push inside with Jay Williams if there's any marketing opportunities come about. You know, same thing with, you know, some of those other guys. I just felt like Mark Bartlestein gave me his word that that year I was going to be the only point guard that he was going to represent in the draft. I trusted him. I looked at the track record of guys that he had to have.

adding the draft up until then. Guys that kind of fit my, you know, I don't want to say character, but fit my kind of mold of about what type of player I would be in the NBA. And so I decided to go with him, and it was a great choice. Okay, so I kind of, ironically,

you couldn't get into the Hawks game because you didn't have a ticket and you go and do an interview with Vince Chalini. And fast forward two years later, and you're a rookie with the hawks. And now you don't actually have to ask for tickets. They give you tickets. What was it like?

First, what's it like when you see your name selected? And I know you knew you were going to be selected. Yeah. What is that actually like? Exilerating, to be honest with you. So choose Barrelstein as my agent, move back to Chicago to continue to prepare to work out. use that as a home base to travel to NBA team workouts before the draft.

I could have stayed in Spokane, but, I mean, think about it. Say, I have a, I've got a pre-draft workout with, say, the Celtics or the Raptors. Do you want to fly from Chicago and go there, or do you want to fly from Spokane? So I lived in Chicago for a while during that process, and I think I had 17 pre-draft workouts, and my name was all over the board. I mean, I think the earliest, honestly, I probably could have felt I would have gone. would have been about the 1617 mark where I think the Wizards had a pick and they ended up taking Juan Dixon. I know I had two workouts with the Wizards.

They liked me a lot, but it ended up going with Juan and no, he had a good career. Ironically, the Hawks never worked me out. They didn't have a first round pick, so they didn't think I was going to be an option for them, but even though they really liked me. So the day of the draft, things get going at my parents' house, kind of have a party. You know, there's quite a few people there, news crews and different things. And, you know, you start paying closer attention once you get to about 15, 16, because that's, okay, you're starting to open up into the window.

You think you might go. And every draft, something happens. A guy goes way higher than expected or a European guy that really nobody that are putting together all these mock drafts really know goes and it kind of sends some some changes in other organizations depth charts okay well that now we don't we're not going here this guy's still available and it just changes things so i became kind of the guy who started to slide because a lot of the teams in that next little grouping of of uh selections didn't they either had two point guards already on their roster or, you know, they had already had promises to other guys in the draft, whether it was

a big or a wing or whatever. And so started getting a little concerned, a little worried, go out in the backyard and shoot a little bit, clear my mind. And this whole time, I'm staying in touch with my agent, kind of talking about what's going on. Did you still have the three hoops? Do you still have the three hoops? No, because at this point, we were living in Vancouver. My parents lived in Vancouver, not in Portland. Good memory. I like it. So we were staying in touch. with my agent throughout and he said look I don't know a lot of what some of

of these other teams are going to do they're playing it close but I do know that Atlanta is doing everything they can to get a first round pig and I said Atlanta I never worked out there he goes yeah they wanted to bring you in but we never did it because they didn't have a first round pick well now it looks like

there's an opportunity for them to select you they're trying to make a pick and so that happened from like I want to say draft selection number 21 on. And so finally the 28th pick with the Kings in Sacramento, the Kings agreed to make that trade and make that selection of me. So it was a fun day.

It was exhilarating because you hear your name called by David Stern, but it was a very stressful day because you honestly, you have no idea what's happening. Your first welcome to the NBA moment was what? Well, I mean, summer league, I got in a fight in the game with Richard Jefferson. I set a back pick on him. He didn't like it. He kind of tackled me on the back screen because he complained that I was setting a number of other screens before in the game.

So he kind of tackles me on the back screen and we both get tossed. I think that was my second summer league game back in Boston. But I think the first one would have been the first true NBA road trip, rookies have to go do something for vets or the equipment manager. Mine on the first trip was I had to go put everybody's equipment bag outside their door about an hour before the bus left for shoot around that morning. So I'm wide-eyed rookie. I was like, all right, I'll just, I'll knock on everybody's door, make sure they, you know, have their gear.

Well, go through about half of them, and I get to big dog, Glenn Robinson's room, and I knock on the door and there's no answer and I knock on the door. Stupid me, I should have just dropped it on the hallway and walked away. Door opens and some chicks in there. I'm like, this is, I double-checked my list. Like, who's in what room? And because I know Glenn's, you know, he lives in Atlanta. He's single or whatever. And I'm like, I'm confused at this point.

And she's like, can I help you? I'm like, is Glenn here? She's like, who's Glenn? I say, big dog. And so I hear Glenn, I hear big dog from around the corner. Oh, just leave my gear right there. So I dropped the gear. I walked away.

And the rest of the year, whenever. I had to do equipment like that. All I would do is drop the gear on the floor, knock one time and walk away. The rest of it was on them to make sure they had their gear. I had, here's a story. I'm not going to, it was with the Bulls, right? I'm watching the last dance, right?

So Corey Williams was the first round draft pick from Oklahoma State, and they called him Peanut. And because he was a rookie with those teams, peanut, he didn't have any money for the gambling. So he held the money. That was his job, his year with the Bulls. He held the money. But he tells the story that when he was a rookie,

he was just basically their, you know, whatever they needed, they would call them at any hour. Like, you know, peanut, I need this. Peanut, I need that. Peanut come to my room. Peanut, whatever. So he gets a call to go get some protection for one of the, one of the, one of the,

one of the veteran players. And he knocks on the door. Nobody answers. He knocks on the door. He's about the same thing. He's about to leave it. The door opens. It's his teammate.

He's got a hockey mask on. Got a hockey stick. And nothing else. Thanks, Peanut. grabs the bag. Closes the door. So a little different than yours, but there's some,

there's some similarities there. you were born, grew up in Portland, then to Vancouver. What was the first, you get to play for the Portland Trailblage twice, but what was that like? I mean, for a guy who played against Portland Trailblazers at Green Valley Athletic Club, right, to now be playing for the Portland Trailblazers. There's a lot of cool things in your career.

Yeah. I'd have to imagine that's the coolest. No, it was unbelievable. And I think, you know, and actually I always kind of answer a similar question in the way that I'm that kid who kind of not only reached their dream, but like the ultimate dream. Like, yeah, I always want to play in the NBA, but I really wanted to play for the Blazers. And I did it twice, like you mentioned, but I also did it a third time as a coach. So I actually can kind of flip it and say, I'm the only kid who reached their goal. three times, but then got fired three times because they traded me as a player twice and fired me

as a player development coach when the new staff with Terry Stotz came in. But I remember it was leading into All-Star break my second year in the NBA where my minutes were up and down fluctuating in Atlanta. I didn't fit Terry Stott's eye as a backup point guard, so I didn't know what to expect. But in the first half of my last game in Atlanta, I played really well. and I didn't get in in the second half. And I get in the car and I'm pissed. Like, I mean, my wife actually told this story to somebody a little bit ago.

I'm like, I'm like unbelievably ticked off because I should have gotten the second half. Like, why the hell didn't I not play? This is dumb, right? And then I get a phone call about an hour after I get home late that night in Atlanta. and it was Billy King, the GM of the Hawks. And he said, Dan, I just wanted to let you know, we've traded you. I'm like, okay. He's like, I'm sure you wanted to, you should have played in the second half,

but you didn't know what was going on. We also traded Sharif Abdurahim and Theo Ratliff with you to Portland. And I just lost it. I'm like, Portland, what? Are you serious? and he said we couldn't play you in the second half because if you were to gotten hurt, the deal would have been blown up. It would have been off the table.

But he said if Sharif or Theo didn't play, everybody knew something was up. So we had those two had to play. And he said they were like sitting there on pins and needles hoping that neither one of those guys got hurt. And so that night, my wife and I literally pulled in all night or packing to get back home. and going back to Portland. It was awesome. What do you remember about putting on that jersey for the first time? Well, I remember the press conference

where they kind of announced the three of us and brought myself and Theo and Sharif in front of the media. And I think it was like at 3 p.m. or something like that. I'm so excited. I get there at like 130. Like, hey, you know, traffic's getting really bad. Portland these days. I don't want to be late. I was so early. I didn't know what to do.

But then, you know, the fact of getting that jersey on was awesome. I mean, I remember the first practice, like literally, I probably smiled the whole practice long, even though we were with a bunch of dudes that year that, you know, if you smile, they'd be like, what the hell's wrong with you? You know, I mean, we had an, we had an interesting group in Portland, that's for sure. What is that, what is that like, though? Because when you got there, that was kind of the end of the jailblazers era, right? And, you know, and so what, what is that like to be, go into a culture and, you know, I know Reef really well, like he's a good, really smart dude. Theo's a great defensive player, right?

Like, they bring in three solid guys. What is that like to, now you're in a complete, you. you know, and I don't know what Atlanta was like, but it is a different vibe there. What was that experience like? Well, you're right. And the fact that it was at the end of that quote-unquote jailblazers era. I mean, Rashid kind of had run his welcome in Portland. And so he was, he played one game in Atlanta before then they shipped him on to Detroit.

And he ended up winning a title with the Pistons. But, you know, they had also traded Bonzie Wells who, you know, had some issues with people in the Portland area and the media. But when you look at the other guys that were still there, Damon is a guy that I knew going back to since right out of high school, and he was always supportive of me. And he mentored me to a certain extent in our time in Portland, you know, and I thought he got a bad rap in Portland for being a part of some of the things. I mean, he's doing a tremendous job as a college coach now.

You know, but I think the two biggest interesting guys that we had on those Portland rosters were Ruben Patterson and Zach Randolph. I mean, Zach played against him in college, and I always found him to be a nice guy, but he could also be steered in the wrong directions if he didn't have great leaders around him. He became a great leader by the end of his career because he was around enough good guys

that he kind of really truly learned the way. And then Ruben Patterson was interesting because I always seem to be in a game with him at the same time because of how rotations work. And I swear to you, you've played with guys before that they'll tell you they're open the whole entire possession. And it was like every possession, like, I'm bringing a ball down the floor. He's barking at me.

I'm open, I'm open. I'm open. I was like, dude, chill. He'd break out of a play, like, you know, Mo cheeks would call whatever it is. You know, horns twist. and, you know, he's supposed to be in one spot and point guard brings over here and comes back off. And, you know, he saw something. So he broke out of the play and he ducked in and did into the post.

And if you didn't throw it to him, you're running back down court and he's hollering at you. You know, that was just Rubin. I mean, it was interesting. That's for sure. When you popped your Achilles, like it takes a lot for a six-foot white dude to make in the NBA. and you kind of, you know, you're with the Celtics, you pop your Achilles.

Is there, based upon what you did, there was no defeatist mindset, right? But was there a moment where you're sitting there and you're looking at your leg and you're like, maybe that's it? No, there wasn't, to be honest with you, because I had, I had issues with my Achilles for a couple of years leading up until when I popped it. I was seeing, you know, I had what was called an Osatron therapy on my Achilles a year and a half prior. I had gone through a number of different things to kind of alleviate pressure and tension and help my Achilles feel as good as it could. And oddly enough, the day that I tore it, I felt as good as. I had in years at pregame warmups. And I even told our trainer, Eddie Lassert with the Celtics,

I said, dude, I feel great today. Whatever we're doing rehab-wise, we need to keep going with it. Lo and behold, first half, catching an outlet pass, take two steps and pop. I thought somebody stepped on my heel. Took another step. Oh, man, somebody must not have stepped on me. Nobody's around me. Took another one.

I was like, okay, this isn't right. I can't move. And so I passed it. I went down on the floor and, you know, they don't want to tell you it's torn until you get back into the, into the locker room. But you kind of know, like, hey, no one's around you. I've been having issues. There's something's going on. And even back in the locker room, Eddie didn't want to say, hey, it's torn until we got the MRI the next day back in Boston.

But I, oddly enough, I not once did I think that was the end of my career. Not once did I sit there and cry. Yeah, it hurt like crazy, especially once we got into onto the flight home and the pressurized cabin was just unbearable. But, you know, it was one of those things while I thought to myself, well, here's another thing I have to overcome in my career. And I think one of the things I'm most proud of is once I returned from that injury, I never missed another practice or game because of my Achilles.

when, um, when you watch how Tray Young plays now and Trey, I think like, look, Steph has been able and he's incredible at it, but he's been able to kind of break through a barrier of like, what's a good shot. Right. Yeah. Now, you know, and, and I mean, shots he takes and then obviously Damian Lillard, the distance that he's shooting, there's, I'd have to think based upon your ability to shoot, playoff ball screens to do all the things that those guys can do.

I have to think there's a little bit of a, that I was born like 10 years too soon, right? Is there, is there any of because the sport has really changed and what, what coaches allow in terms of shot selection has changed? A part of it is these guys make a percentage where you're like, look, I used to be a bad shot,

but if you're going to make, you know, 45% of them from three, then fuck it, what am I to do? Is there a part of you that looks and watches and goes like, I was just born too soon? Yeah, occasionally. You know, you watch the game and just see how free-flowing it is and the ability to shoot deep threes in transition and how many ball screens are happening in the space that's on the floor.

And also, you know, quite frankly, the fact that a lot of games, the emphasis on defense isn't what it was when I was coming into the NBA. You know, but at the same time, I can't complain too much because I had a tremendous run. I had an opportunity to play in the NBA and achieve a goal and a dream. But I will say this, so my rookie year, I had knee surgery, a scopa meniscus. I missed, you know, six weeks or so. In that time, Lawn Kruger gets fired. Terry Stott's comes in as a head coach. Terry Stats, we ran a lot of ISOs for Glenn Robinson.

We ran a lot of cross-during actions. bring Sharif to the block. We ran a lot of what's called hawk cuts on the strong side and then get to a second side action. Yeah. And his message to me was this. You're my backup point guard. And this was my rookie year and then the second year before I got traded of Portland Trailblazers,

who oddly enough, he's with the Blazers now in his system's completely different. But his message to me as a backup point guard was this. if our team is up by four when you go in if when I check you back out you're not up we're not up for the blame is on you and I'm like what that makes no sense

but that was his message and then the next part of his message was I want my my backup point guard to pick up 94 feet and only take open shots and I'm like that's not my game so because that

what he wanted and because that wasn't my game my rookie year they went out and signed Jacques Vaughn as their backup point guard to Jason Terry who all he does all he does is facilitate and guard 94 yeah and so you know that's where I think a lot of people are like oh you didn't do this or that when you're in no I didn't have it they don't understand I got I got a quick story for so my son's 11 and so one day after a game about three months ago I sat these kids down and I explained to them what plus minus was right and I said like look the two most important stats in basketball are kind of related one is what the score is and what your personal plus minus is like all the other stuff I care

about you know but I don't care about it's like does a team do better with you in the game than when you're not in the game so let's just swear I swear to God so Saturday uh Sunday night Sunday night. My son is playing. We're playing. We have a seventh grade group and he's in sick. He's a young sixth grader and he's like the backup point guard. And I kind of, I added some of the sixth graders to show them because the seventh graders is such a,

there's a big jump between the two ages in terms of skill level, ability to run an offense to, to physicality and bodies and all that stuff. So I wanted them to see kind of what it looks like. So we played a team and we could have beat him by 100 if I wanted to press or whatever, but I just wanted them to play good basketball, run offense, play man-to-man press, and just guard somebody, right? And we didn't play very well. I think we ended up winning by like 12. And we had beaten the same team by like 35 the last time we played him. And we

didn't have even our best players. So we have an hour in between games. And he's really down, really down. And so, you know, with COVID, you can't stay in the gym. So you're better off, it was cold outside. Let's just go in the car. So we go in the car. And I was like, what is the matter with you? Dad, my plus minus is terrible.

I was like, what? I went into the game. We're up 16. I come out of the game. We're up 13. I was like, look, you just learn a very valuable lesson. Okay. Don't tell anybody I told you this, but plus minus can be a little bit of bullshit.

because you actually, there's nothing, you didn't turn the ball over, you know, you missed a shot, but it was a good shot. Like it was a shot. Yeah. You played defense.

You did everything I want. Like I didn't, my mad at you. Then I get on to him when he's like, anyway, he was, he was like, my plus minus was just there.

Anyway, played really well the second game. But the plus minus thing is fascinating. And the 94 feet thing is fascinating because guys are so locked in their head for, for what you're supposed to be. Instead of trying to figure out what you can be, right?

Like what you can do. Yes. Okay. A couple quick ones. Then I want to get to G.U. I want to get to a couple of things business-wise for you. First, cool as dude that you play with in the NBA that people don't, would know this guy is an awesome guy or just the greatest.

Well, Scalibarini is the easy one because he's so personable and he's in the media now. And he's a Washington guy. So we had a lot of connections before teammates in Boston. And, you know, I think, you know, for me, I was only in Dallas for a short bit, but Dirk Novitsky is the real deal. He is a great dude. Unbelievable. I mean, great leader, great teammate.

He's got the greatest work ethic. He's unbelievably loyal, obviously, by staying with Dallas all those years. And like I said, I was only there a short bit, but about two. years ago, I went back. I was in Dallas for a broadcast and I was at SMU. But during the morning, I went to the Mavericks to go facility to watch practice and was sitting there with Donnie Nelson just kind of talking basketball for 40 minutes or so and then practice is over and Dirk comes over and we just talked for like 15 minutes. And I hadn't seen Dirk in a long time. You know, we were teammates for a few months as all, but that really impressed me. Like, you know what?

that that was awesome have you ever seen anything like his shooting routine with his shooting coach you ever like that that thing i've i've seen videos of it oh yeah it's uh and it's real i mean i know you people see those videos and they're like oh he doesn't do that all the time no he does that all the time um you know the the rolling hooks the the roll the ball out and kind of the deep knee bend into his shots uh how he works on on that one-legged fade away um he all that stuff it's almost a daily routine for him. Best coach you played for in the NBA? You know, I mean, it's so indicative of how you were successful.

So for me, Byron Scott was great because I was able to play a lot, but it's because the system he ran the Princeton offense. I could read and read screens and react to it. I could understand it. And I could influence the offense to a certain extent. If I wanted a shot, okay, I'm going to throw the ball there and come off this screen. you know so so that would have been good my elbow or chin elbow or chin which is your preference i might if i wanted to pick and roll i'm going chin i'm throwing the ball to the other two

guard and telling him hey bring it up and run chin 15 otherwise elbow uh you know i really liked uh and then mike dunley view was a basketball savant to me like every every action on the court whether it's a down screen and up screen a back screen a cross screen how to a number attached to it. And like say, a cross-screen is a 12, a down-screen is a 6. If he wants to screen the screener action, it's an 18, so it's 12 plus 6. Just unbelievable basketball line. You have any regrets to your NBA career?

No, I really don't. You know, I think if there was one, it would be shoot more. you know i mean if you look at it sometimes maybe i did get kind of bogged down in in in being a a true teammate uh in trying to do what was asked of me by the coaching staff to to run a play uh as opposed to occasionally be a little bit more you know selfish and looking for my own shots but at the same time you know not everybody has the opportunities to or the freedom to break out because what if I broke out and I missed a shot?

Well, guess what? I was probably coming back to the bench. There's very few guys in the NBA that really have the freedom that most people think that they have. Yeah, I do, one of the things I really enjoyed about professional basketball is when you saw somebody and you knew he's coming to get you,

you were getting a shot up. And kind of everybody knew that was happening, right? Like, you see the guy checking in for you like, or if you're at the free throw line, you miss it on purpose. Yeah, because they're going to come get for you. Dan Dickhouse made 17 free throws.

Wow, he just missed one. That's the announcer jinks. Like, no, man. They're about to take him out. That's exactly what happened. I, G.U this year is going to take on Iowa this weekend. We think.

We think. We are. First, right. First, this G. G.U squad. Now, what fans do is they always compare them to old GU squads, right? But they, you can't, they don't, they don't actually play each other. The landscape of the sport is so incredibly different, right? What, having seen them far more than anybody else, obviously not able to get to practice as much because of COVID, but now seeing them, what, what are your

thoughts on, on, on, in mid-December on the squad? Tremendous balance. You know, a lot of people were kind of curious what was going to happen in the front court with Petrusive leaving. Yeah, that's a big loss, but it also is a big opportunity that's opened up for Timmy, and he's been tremendous the first few games of the year. Do I want to see one of the other young bigs, either Balo or Zachrov improve? Absolutely. And one of those two guys is going to have to play and play well against Garza with Iowa, because he's a monster.

But if you look at the rest of the GU kind of rotation, I mean, Kisbert's done with what so many Gonzaga players have done before. Just gradually improve over your course of time. And then once you become a bigger focal point of everything, which is about maybe midway through last year, and now he obviously is this year, you're ready for it. And he's absolutely ready for it. I mean, his games, you know, continue to improve his,

his leadership is absolutely there. Same thing with the IE continues to show growth. But everybody's getting excited and rightfully so to sucks. You know, he's coming in to Gonzaga with such high expectations. You know, top five national recruit. Gonzagas never had a top 30 national recruit. And now you're getting sucks. I mean, he plays at his own pace.

He's very athletic, but he plays at his own pace. And he plays with kind of a sense of control in him that's basically showing people that I'm in charge, I've got this. You know, there's a lot of times you're really good, you're really athletic, and you try to force the action. And I haven't seen that out of him yet. And you take a freshman, your first game against Kansas and against a great defender and Garrett, and you put up the numbers that he had, whatever, it was like 22 points or

whatever, that's a great start to your college career. The biggest thing I think for Gonzaga, I think this year will be is how consistent a play can they get from the four? You know, Anton Watson had battled injuries last year. I think he's got a chance to be a really good player there. How quickly can he kind of get back to the level that he was last season early before he got hurt? Because he's versatile. He can stretch the floor as a four. He can get out and guard anybody.

He can run in transition. So I think that four is going to be. going to be interesting to see how well he improves as well as do one of the other young bigs that I mentioned improve enough where you know Timmy can also slide in occasionally at the four okay so they're going to play Iowa and I know you've seen him and it's like there has to be from Gonzaga fans like wow they they're kind of like we are we used to be maybe a little bit like dudes that can are all skilled right all killed. I mean, like Garza is a scoring machine, obviously. Bo Hannan is he's not what you were.

He's not the passer of Blake, but the dude can stripe it. You know, Weas camp is he looks, there's a lot of guys they have that kind of feel like Zags. They just do to me. I don't, I don't know. Is that a crazy, I don't, I don't anyway want to offend a Zag, but because it, no, I or me secondhand, but that's what it feels like in watching them. No, I, I think That's a great observation. I think the thing for people that have paid close attention to college basketball over the years like yourself, one of the first things that comes to mind for Gonzaga players, and whether it's perimeter or interior, they're skilled.

They've got to have great footwork. They've got to have the ability to finish underneath if you're big with either hand. They have an abundance of moves down there on the perimeter. You're going to have to be a serviceable, if not a really good outside shooter, and make the right plays. And when you look at those Iowa guys that you just mentioned, they check a lot of those same boxes. And so I see a lot of the same similarities that you mentioned.

You have a ton of business stuff going on, right? Like you have your barbershops. You have your pod. You're doing broadcasting. Life's busy. It is busy. You're a parent, obviously. But I also know when you live,

love ball and you've coached ball, it's a, it's a drug man. It's really, really hard to, you're kind of, it's like I tell people, you're always an addict, right? That's what they tell you about real addicts, like drug addicts. You're kind of always a hoot addict. Is what you're doing now, does that fulfill that need or is there ultimately going to be a need to be a coach? Great question. You know, my wife and I have talked about the coaching thing before. And, you know, I've over the last five, six years, I've had a couple colleges reach out for assistant coach positions. I've had an NBA organization reach out on a player development position. I would never say no to an opportunity to coach until I hear more about it. But I do know with all the things that I'm doing

with the businesses of the barbers that you mentioned and the broadcasting and my work with SB Live, which is where, you know, my main podcast runs three times a week. and I do a number of other things with them. That's where my time and attention goes right now. And I know how much of a time demand and a drain it can be on coaches for themselves, but as well as their families. But none of that does fulfill the chance to be part of a win or a loss. And you get that as a coach.

I don't think it's necessarily the same as a, a player and I don't think they're meant to be the same because you have different roles within that. But I think the biggest thing that the broadcasting does and that I that I appreciate about it is I stay as close to the game as I can without having to take the game home with me all the time. You know, like for example, I've already done five pack 12 games this year. I've got probably six or seven more on that network. I've got about 20 games coming up on, CBS Sports Network in addition to the...

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I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Clivert Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement

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On Zaggar Regional Games. So I talk to enough coaches throughout the year to get my basketball fixed and I'm rounded enough without taking it home with me if that makes sense. It does. I think, though, the other part

that you discuss, though, is the hard part, which is there is no win, there is no loss, right? and you almost miss the losses as much as the wins because then then it becomes the jigsaw puzzle of all right. How do we fix the problem? Right. Whereas I've told coaches this all the time. Like, look, if you don't want to coach again, don't call a game.

Because if you call a game, especially back when you're in the arenas, you just, you go to practice. You're out of it. You're like, you so badly want to grab a whiteboard and just go like, do this. I swear to God, this will work, right? And you get done. And you just miss the highs and the lows. You just, it's very, very hard. And I told her, Meyer this.

When he, when he was at ESPN, he did the games. And I was like, dude, I knew you were going back. Now he's in studio at Fox. And I think he might be done because there's the second you step foot into a locker room or you're on the sideline for a big one. And you feel the pain and the agony of losing the, the absolute, like a road win. I call, you call a game in a team in a tough environment figures out a way to win a close one on the road. You're like, God, I wish I was on that flight home. home. I wish I was a part of that because that's like the most magical thing in our sport,

right, which is the feeling of a road win. So yeah, and I, and then when you coach, like I coach a team, you coached kids or I coach the team in Israel, you think that'll fulfill the need, but that only makes it worse, right? Because now you're like, yeah, I love it. I want more. I want more. I want more. I want more. So I do wonder if at some point, and here's a, here's a thing. I get that you and I don't work in the film rooms and with the staff, but don't you feel more knowledgeable having watched a bunch of other teams practice as opposed to sitting on one bench and figuring out one way of doing things? Yeah, I would agree with that.

You know, Coach Fiore and I have even had a number of conversations about coaching. And, you know, he has a certain set of, I don't want to call him. guidelines, but things that he likes to see his coaching staff members having gone through to be able to kind of be a part of his staff. And that's his, that's his, that's his, he's earned that ability to kind of pick and choose what he wants his coaching staff's experiences to look like. But Adam Morrison and I've talked about this on a number of times, like when you play in the NBA and you've had to have the IQ that he and I had to have and you had to have the competitiveness and skills and then you go through an NBA career where you're going through film sessions,

you're going through shooterounds, you're going through practices, you're going through game, pregame meetings. You've earned a PhD in the game of basketball, you know, at the NBA level, because you're looking at 82 games times 82 scattering reports, times 82 shootarounds, times another 60 practices. That's two and a half college years seasons in one. and I get it and I know that at the college level, there's a huge emphasis on the recruiting part, which comes with the territory. But I liken it to, you know,

when you've been around something for so long, you've seen it all. I mean, maybe I don't have a specific philosophy towards this thing or that thing at this moment in time, but I can go back, if I were placed in the situation where I had to really think about it or put it together, I could go back quickly through,

my memory banks and figure out, okay, hey, that's what we did in this situation. I like that or I didn't like that. You know, and then I also did when I did think I was going into coaching, I did put together philosophy books as far as defense and offense and what I wanted to do if I were ever in that position. But I haven't looked at those in a good 10 years or so since the Blazers fired me that third time. And we're live here outside the Perez family home just waiting for the, and there they go. Almost on time this morning. Mom is coming out the front door strong with a double-armed kid carry. Looks like Dad has the bag's daughter is bringing up the rear.

Oh, but the diaper bag wasn't closed. Dipers and toys are everywhere. Ooh, but Mom has just nailed the perfect car seat buckle for the toddler. And now the eldest daughter, who looks to be about nine or ten, has secured herself in the booster seat. Dad zips the bag closed and they're off. Ah, but looks like Mom doesn't realize her coffee cup is still on. on the roof of the car, and there it goes!

Oh, that's a shame. That mug was a fam favorite. Don't sweat the small stuff. Just nail the big stuff. Like making sure your kids are buckled correctly in the right seat for their age and size. Learn more at nhtsa.gov slash the right seat. Visit nhtsa.gov slash the right seat.

Brought to you by Nitsa and the Ad Council. Look through your children's eyes to see the true magic of a forest. It's a storybook world for them. You look and see. a tree. They see the wrinkled face of a wizard with arms outstretched to the sky. They see treasure and pebbles. They see

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Brought to you by the United States Forest Service and the Ad Council. Last thing, you mentioned player development. You have a kid's your own, and they want to be a player. you know we see so many one-on cone guys and workout guys whenever if you were to grab and i'm sure you've done this with your own son but you you say hey look this is what it takes to make it what would it be you know the the the trainers it is what it is you're going to see lots of that nowadays and there's lots of money in it for trainers to make the money and i'm not faulting them at all. Because if there's an opportunity that you can provide a service, go for it.

I have an issue when I see trainers doing what you just talked about. One on those stuff with cones. I've seen trainers that have set out 50 cones and it's like a zigzag drill and then you pick up a medicine ball, toss it in one hand while you finish it, a layup with the other. That makes no sense because you will never do that on a basketball court. When I put my son and his friends and teams that were I put workouts together in Spokane. I've had parents to do, why are you doing that? Well, you have to be able to handle the ball. You have to have footwork.

You have to be able to shoot it. And then you have to understand the game of how do those things tie into basketball specific situations, pick and roll. Okay, you got to make pick and roll read. So come off pick and roll with the handle, make the pass, or get your footwork right into a shot. Same thing if you're coming off a down screen or if you're coming off a down screen or if you're spacing it or if you're a postman, catch it, you know, reverse pivot, face,

all those different things that, you know, I think are so undervalued and undertaught as opposed to the flashy fun stuff. I go back to the comment all the time. I think basketball is overcoached and undertaught. It gets a great way to look at it. I mean, we got a big tournament this weekend. I got two practices the next two days. and, you know, my, my son's like, Dad, why do we, we do that?

The passing and the footwork stuff, every, like, can't we play more? And I was like, no, you'll play this weekend. But you'll play better if you do the passing and the cutting and the footwork stuff. Trust me. Trust me. The dribbling stuff, like, it's great, you know? Like, I, I'm, he's like big on going through his legs. You know, many times I went through my legs when I played professional basketball?

hardly at all. I went one way. And if I didn't like that, I went the other way. It's kind of that simple. And if they back up, you shoot or you pass the ball. It is crazy. Very last thing is this. If Gonzaga wins the whole thing, because they gotten close and you were a part of the build phase of making it into the national brand. As you said, you were still kind of, what would mean to you if these guys want these guys won it in terms of just how do you think it would feel to you for them to win that final game uh tremendous amount of pride you know um each group that had special teams or in teams that felt like they could have been the team to one to win a national title um do we probably have disappointment and wish that it would have been us absolutely

without a doubt. But it won't take away any amount of pride that we have for being a part of the building blocks of the program. And I don't think it will take away any of our excitement for the current group if they're able to get it done. Because again, what Gonzaga basketball has become over the last 20 to 25 years is something that is truly special. And the only thing left is a national title. It's true. It's the only, it's the only thing left. Well, you guys built it. and it's out of supreme amount of respect that I ask you to come on. I appreciate it. I love watching what you're doing with broadcasting,

and I can't tell you how gracious you've been with your time. Thanks, man. Absolutely. Thanks, Doug. I appreciate it. And we'll have to have you on my ISO podcast again. I know you've been on once. At some point, we'll get you on a second time.

Literally, dude, anytime. Anytime. Awesome. Thanks again, Doug. All right, brother. See you. Man, so many good parts there to Dan. I just, if you listen, clearly, he wants to, he loves to coach, he loves ball.

And I love that those Gonzaga guys take great pride still in who's playing, wearing what we consider their uniform. It's one of the great things about when you play, you know, play to college. And he only played there two years. It's also fascinating to me how, you know, and this is more a double transfer thing or transfers in general, you lose most all contact and associate. with that first school. And so if you're going to transfer out,

understand, you're kind of out of the family. That's kind of part of the deal. But that guy made himself into a tremendous college basketball player and played enough in the NBA. I mean, you play one day in the NBA. That's enough for me. He played long enough in the NBA to just have great stories, great memories.

And I really hope you enjoyed that kind of trip down a little bit of memory lane. Dan is a fantastic analyst as well, and somebody who I enjoy, his kind of unique perspective. And a guy who's a basketball guy. And I think that one of the things that us basketball guys do, and if you're listening to this, you probably are too. You struggle to how the rest of the world sees the sport.

You've got to kind of relay it. And I thought he thought he did a great job. So hope you enjoyed that. That's a two-part episode. You've missed part one. You should download that. It's why he went to Washington, his upbringing, all kinds of different stuff.

And remember to listen to Doug Gottlieb show, 3 to 6 Eastern, 12, 3 Pacific, Fox Sports Radio, Iheart Radio app, or FoxportTradio.com. You can also download that as a podcast. Subscribe. Download, subscribe, rate, writer of view. Just do it. It takes a couple seconds. It ends up helping us out.

And tell a friend about this. Tweet it out. You like it. You don't like it. I thought it was a great discussion. That's a lot of meat to chew on as your drive around. Have a safe and Merry Christmas. A Happy New Year.

We'll keep pumping out these all. All Balls. You know, if you guys have guests you want to hear, there's things you like, tweet quotes. There's been incredible response to this podcast from so many of my friends in basketball. Enjoy it. Enjoy the hoops. We'll talk soon. I'm Doug Gottlieb. This is All Ball. Get right to the romance and find the way to wow this Valentine's with 1-800flowers.com. From classic roses and bouquets to decadent chocolate-covered berries, gourmet treats, and more. Surprise your Valentine with 1-800 flowers. Right now, get the 18-stem enchanted rose medley for $3999 or upgrade to 24 red roses for $10 more. Go to 1-800flowers.com slash tune in. That's 1-800flowers.com slash tune in.

Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and headwere writer Street or Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter.

Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human

potential. Either way, the podcast Superhuman documented it all. all embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On the Look Back at it podcast. From 1979, that was a big moment for me.

84 was big to me. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. with our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite authors. Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s. It was a wild year. It was a wild year.

I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me. Clifford Taylor the 4th.

You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfills of conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to The Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok podcast network on TikTok. This is an IHeart podcast.

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