The Herd with Colin Cowherd - All Ball - Quick NBA Draft Thoughts; Pt. 1 - South Carolina HC Frank Martin on Miami Upbringing, Adversity, Bob Huggins Relationship, K-State Big Break

Episode Date: November 21, 2020

In this episode, Doug gives some quick thoughts on LaMelo Ball and the NBA Draft, and talks with South Carolina Head Coach Frank Martin about how he spent his long COVID offseason, his upbringing in Miami, the influence of his high school coach Shakey Rodriguez, why he stresses education with his players, his relationship and first big break with Bob Huggins, and what led to him getting the his first big time head coaching job at Kansas State. Make sure you download, rate and subscribe here to get the latest All Ball Podcasts! Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter.

Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque.

Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win.

I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfilled conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to the Clifford show on the I Heart Radio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok's podcast network on TikTok. On the Look Back at it podcast. From 1979, that was a big moment for me. 84's big to me. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English.

Each episode, we pick a year, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. With our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite authors. Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s. 84 was a wild year. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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They know you value your time outside of work, juggling family, school, friends, or other activities. That's why they offer a variety of shifts that work for you. There are full-time, part-time, and even temporary opportunities that can work with your schedule with great starting pay and sign-on bonuses. If you want a career that fits and adapts to your lifestyle, head to Amazon.com slash apply. Amazon is a proud equal opportunity employer. What up? Welcome in. I'm Doug Godlead, and this is All Ball. This week's guest is Frank Martin. Now, if you watch this entire thing, one, you're going to love the story of when he got offer the Kansas State job. I didn't know it. I'm not sure he's told it. It's pretty cool.

So Frank and I talked for about an hour and he agreed to do a second part. We'll probably do it today or tomorrow and I ain't doing nuts right now. And we'll get into kind of more of the kind of present day what happened and went right and then went wrong Kansas State to South Carolina to the final four to where we are now. And then I have some other kind of quirky stuff to ask Frank. it's pretty amazing. He's an amazing, amazing guy. So we'll get to Frank Martin in just a couple moments. First, let me kind of quickly recap for you, the NBA draft. Now, I think what's fascinating is the lamello ball deal. We can talk about other guys, but obviously he's a huge name. I guess the good thing is, if you look at it, like his dad had two top three picks that are sons. That's

incredible. And the first time I saw La Mello Ball play, I think, I think he was in seventh grade maybe, maybe, maybe eighth. And I'll never forget, I was coaching one of my dad's teams at the American Sports Center, which is in Inaheim. And I got done coaching, and I went over and Miles Simon grabbed me. He's now in a assistant with the Lakers. And Miles's like, have you seen the ball brothers play? I was like, no, I don't even know who that is.

Like, let's go watch. We went over to the court and filled people. And I love the way that Lonzo found people. I love the way that Lamello found people. And Lamello was playing up, playing against high school kids, and he was tiny with big floppy hair, right? And it's always fascinating to me on how guys who play up the skill that they have. And I know this from me playing up.

When I was in fourth grade, I played with my brother's eighth grade team. And I think what that does is it does make you, you have to be more of a pastor because you can't score on people. The downside to that is that, that especially nowadays in the NBA, you've got to be a bit of an alpha score. Do I want people that set people up? Yeah, but I need you to take over games.

And then when help comes, you kick off. James Harden. LeBron James, like LeBron James, he's not a score per se, but he, in his career is the all-time leading NBA score. So let's first take Lanzo and why it hasn't worked. first, if we're honest, LeVar didn't train him right.

You know, yes, he trained him to be able to play in transition and encouraged him to pass. And he's got great passing vision. And Lonzo has bought into, when they played growing up, it was all about pressing and getting steals, and he really didn't refine, learn to play defense until the NBA.

But Lonzo is a very good defender and wants to be a great defender. He's also a very good rebounder for a guard. But what he's never done is, had the willingness or ability to take over a game offensively. Obviously, his jump shot has held him back. But so does he's not a good finisher. He's just not. And then you factor in some bad luck.

Injuries. Now, I don't know if the first injury when he was in the NBA, some people believe it's because he wore those crummy big ball of brand shoes. But whatever was, he was hurt both his first offseason when you got drafted by the Lakers and the next offseason. That's when you make your biggest jump is you learn what to do, what not to do, how to work on your game, how to change his body, but he's never been able to truly take those steps in the office.

And then you look at the bubble this year, and he was awful, which leads me to believe that during quarantine, he wasn't doing the work. That's the only Jamal Murray can't become, go from a very good player to an elite level player after quarantine, if not for putting in a ton of work during quarantine, as opposed to Alonzo Ball,

who went from being a starter to a guy who now New Orleans went and drafted a point guard and traded for a point guard. If you think they think that Lonzo Ball is the future, why they actually traded for two points. I don't know if George Hill stays there or tires or buy them out or whatever. But you don't bring in three point guards unless if you think that you got your star in the future, right? So his career kind of hangs in the balance there with a GM that didn't draft him, a coach that

didn't draft him as well. but Lonzo did not have played pick and roll until after being the year NBA a couple years not still not a very good finisher not a confident shooter and his hit now he has made his body a pretty good body but he kept breaking down so now let's go to lamello l mello is bigger and as good or a better passer seems to have a great creative finishing knack part of it is he's very big now I don't know how his body feels out if he can become the explosive athlete that Lonzo's become stands the reason, probably, right? He's only 18. Right now it's all about length and he's wiry and he adds, he's not going to be slowbo his whole career.

But Lonzo has always tried to play defense. Lamelo doesn't play into defense, doesn't like contact. And if you want to say that Lonzo's shot was broke, like Lemello's shot looks very similar and the numbers are terrible, even in Australia. We saw highlights and snippets and he does some amazing things with the basketball, but he shot 25% from 3%. I expect that to improve. I do think that he's big, his positional size, even more so than Lonzo. And if he's not hurt in the offseason, and if he's willing to put in the work that Lonzo, I don't think put in the work, I think he'd be really good.

But I don't know for a fact. I don't know for a fact that it absolutely works out. It's a risky pick. I like that it's out of a big market and that it's going to be about kind of buying in. I don't love the fit there because I think Devante Graham is. Now, Devante Graham, truthfully, is a perfect six-man. And because of his lack of size, he can play with Zoe. And he's not a creative point guard.

He's a dynamic scoring guard. I think that's where Charlotte should go, right? Whereas Terry Rozier is a bench player. I don't care what his salary tells you. When he was at his best in Boston's when he came off the bench, there's a reason they didn't think they could elevate him to a start. There's a limit there. Doesn't have a great roster around him.

I question is all the sudden he's going to decide to defend? All of a sudden, you cannot teach toughness. You can change the guy's body. You can change the guy's shot. You can't teach a guy toughness. It's really hard to get a guy to have great work ethic. I think he has good work ethic. I think that's why he has so much skill in what he's done.

But I don't think he has great work ethic. I don't think he has great toughness. So I wonder what that looks like. Maybe my favorite pick of the draft is Nico Manion going to the Warriors. One of the things about Steph Curry is we've been searching for a Steph Curry backup up since what? Landre Barbosa aged and then eventually went away. One of the reasons there's such a massive drop-off when Steph has come off the court with the Warriors was he had like Quinn Cook as his backup.

Quinn's a G-Ligger who made the NBA. Obviously won an NBA title this year with the Lakers, but they just didn't resign him. And so this is not to take a shot at Quinn Cook, but he's a third or fourth point guard on the team. They didn't have a viable, you know, you're not going to get a one beat of Steph. but a guy who could go could eventually be a starter. That's what Nico Mannion is. Does he need to make better decisions?

Sure. Does he need to shoot the ball better? Sure. He's obviously not the pastor of staff and you're not going to teach that. But he's got some juice to him. And while I love Peyton Pritchard, I think he's tough. I don't know, first round seems a little high. I love Nico Mannion.

And I think he's, that's a terrific fit for him. Because if you look at the Warriors roster now, how many ball handlers do they actually have? They used to have five guys. Remember, Kevin Durant was like a point forward. Tremon Green is still there, like a point forward. The worst dribble or ball handler, the guy who dribbled the least was Clay Thompson, right?

But you don't have so many guys that they had that could handle the basketball and you're going to need more guards because Steph, while he's technically a point and brings it up, he's also technically a two guard, really, and he needs somebody else. And you can play those two together. I believe you can play those two together.

If Nico can learn to be a very good defense, he's got to be a really good defense player, and he's tough. So I like that draft pick. I like what the Timberwolves did, believe or not. I thought Anthony Edwards was the right pick, Weissman, they couldn't use another big. and I didn't like Lamello with DeAngelo Russell.

Obviously, I have the questions that everybody has about a guy who says he doesn't love basketball. And I'm not sure he'll become a great shooter, but he's an explosive athlete, a big, strong football body. You know, does Anthony Edwards become an all-star? Maybe not. Does he become a damn good 1820 game score, probably? And maybe beyond, but it depends upon how hard he wants to work. And also, this is a challenge to, to, uh, to DeAngelo Russell, a guy who was a hangout guy with the Lakers,

got a terrible reputation in terms of his work ethic and buy-in off the court. Does he buy in now? I hope he does because now he's a max contract guy, and he's got to make it work because people think Kyle Anthony Towns wants to go to the Knicks. So otherwise, free agency-wise, you know, look, here's what we'll do. We'll record one next week when some of the dust settles. We'll see if Gordon Hayward gets to the Pacers.

We'll see if it's a sign-in trade or if it's signed right away. we'll see what happens with the Lakers. Right now, I really like what they've done. Dennis Schrooter, that guy can score off the dribble. That guy can score off the catch. Pretty tough-minded. Obviously, he wasn't great as an alpha at a young age in Atlanta, but found a good role last year in Oklahoma City.

He's a, it's to be a good role for him. And I also, I don't believe for one second that Anthony Davis is going to sign anywhere else. This feels like clutch sports trying to get the Lakers to sign. sign more clutch guys. That's what it is. I don't know if it works. It does feel like Rob Polinka's got pretty good control and understanding of the situation. You may have to sign one guy or two guys to pacify everybody, but Anthony Davidson leaving a championship team with a chance to win multiple championships with LeBron, especially now the West is not as good as we thought it would be. Like Portland, they're not losing to Portland. Houston seems to be done. I love Denver,

but there's a ceiling there. Utah, same thing. It's the clippers and the Lakers and who else? Whereas the east, the nets are real. The bucks are real. The 76ers real. Although, I mean, Danny Green can't be a starter. Can't move unless he finds a fountain of youth. Didn't move well. Missed a lot of shots, a lot of open shots this year. And as much as everybody loves Seth Curry making the NBA, he's a great shooter, he's got to come off the bench because he can't guard. And he's just, he's not a starting cowper. It's a very good bench shooter. Corver. That's who he is. Awesome. But they still need some more pieces to go along with Tobias Harris and the big two. All right, let's get to my Frank Martin interview. Frank Martin,

I've known him for a long time. I think we'll get to that story at some point in either this interview or the next interview. He's the head coach of South Carolina. A couple years ago, they went to Afana four. He is a, the son of Cuban dissidents. And he has an amazing personal story. This is part of two parts with Frank Martin. Enjoy it. Well, coach, first, how are you? Like, how is your health? How's your team? This is a crazy set of circumstances. How are you? I'm doing great, Doug. You know, it's like everyone else, it was an interesting spring and summer. And getting older, everything hurts. But it's, uh, We've been knock on wood going at it here for really hard for the last five weeks.

And we've been responsible and safe up to this point from COVID. So we just got to keep our fingers crossed and take it day by day and hope we can, you know, get through a season. But I'm doing great, man. My family's healthy, you know, bored. I'm just in a gym and in my house, nowhere else. but, you know, other than that, it's okay. Okay, so in terms of the gym, when you're on quarantine, did you know, I talked to Bill Self and he actually cleaned the garage three times.

And he said, I might have done it too well. Is there a, is there a hobby or anything you picked up, especially when you didn't have practice that you hadn't done previously? I pretty much played golf more than at any time in my life. in the month of April. And then early May hit, I was getting ready for knee replacement, and that's when I tested positive for COVID. And, you know, who the heck knows if I was positive or not?

I mean, it's unbelievable. You just don't know. I think I was because I felt kind of weird. And I don't know if you like my new hairdo, but I like a lot. I got hit by alopecia really bad, which they say it's an after effect of COVID. whether it's stress or the disease itself. Wow. So I just, about two weeks ago, I just finally, rather than hide it, I cut it off. And then I did have my knee replacement.

But I did. I worked at the house a little bit. I'm not very good at things at the house. I work hard at being a husband. I work hard of being a dad. But I absolutely stink at anything that deals with being a handyman or fixing things around the house. So I tried. So when you say I played more golf than I've ever played, did you grow up playing golf? Who me?

Yeah. I mean, I played some. I started hitting balls when I was like a junior in high school, just because there's a range fairly close to the house. And the AD at my high school used to play, so he'd take me with him. But I never really got into golf until my 20s. And then when I got into college basketball, I stopped.

I barely played. I played some in Kansas towards the end of my time there. And then when I got here, I stopped playing again. I just trying to rebuild this program. I had no time for golf. And I got young children. But, you know, we were in COVID. And that was about the only thing that we can do in the lockdown is go play golf.

And so I did that a lot. You mentioned your kids and your family. It was, and there can be too much of that, but especially for college basketball and a guy. like yourself, a grindinger. You did spend a lot of time on the road recruiting and, you know, and with your coaches in your office. It had on some level be refreshing to be able to be at home and there's no distractions.

Like we had, we had family dinners that we had never had. And I don't have nearly the schedule that you have. I'd have to imagine that was pretty rewarding, but also pretty different from the lifestyle you've led since you got into college hoops. Well said, Doug. That was the one thing. I did a show with your peers on FS1,

Marcellus Wiley, and at the time, Jason Whitlock, and they kind of asked me a similar question. And I told them, I said, you know, I work really hard. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all,

embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying.

Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated.

One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to The Clifford show on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok.

Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tapped Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to? do a little kill. Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam Jay. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill waxing all about crack in the 80s.

To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so you all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have age. on the table right now. Thank you for finishing that sentence. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really?

Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hard Way with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests.

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Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth? Are you a good person because you're afraid Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust.

I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, as we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hard Way. Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Learn the Hard way and listen now. Trying to be a father and being really involved in my children's life and helping them and being there for them. and when COVID hit, I actually got to separate from work and life and just worry about them. And I realized that as hard as I tried, I really didn't know my kids real good. They knew me, but I didn't know them.

And so from that standpoint, it was unbelievable helpful, unbelievably helpful to really get to know my kids, which after the fact, I felt real guilty about. So now that we're, I don't want to say we're back to normal, but then I'm coaching again. I'm practice. I'm getting ready to start traveling. I have a better understanding what they like, don't like, how they do things. And it's all because of what you said. We got to eat family dinners together.

You know, we spent quality time talking. We're all in the house. So it was pretty powerful. Get right to the romance and find the way to wow this valentines with 1-800flowers.com. classic roses and bouquets to decadent chocolate-covered berries, gourmet treats, and more. Surprise your Valentine with 1-800flowers.com. Right now, get the 18-stem enchanted rose medley for $39.99, or upgrade to 24 red roses for $10 more. Go to 1-800flowers.com slash tune in. That's 1-800flowers.com slash tune in.

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Find a forest near you and start exploring at Discovertheforest.org. Brought to you by the United States Forest Service and the ad council. Adoption of teens from foster care is a topic. not enough people know about and we're here to change that. I'm April Dinnwity host of the new podcast, Navigating Adoption, presented by Adopt U.S. Kids. Each episode brings you compelling real-life adoption stories told by the families that live them with commentary from experts.

Visit Adoptuskids.org slash podcast or subscribe to navigating adoption presented by Adopt U.S. Kids. Brought to you by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services Administration for Children and Families and the Ad Council. So you grew up, You grew up in in Miami. Give me, paint the picture of what your childhood is like. A lot of fun, a lot of joy.

Very simple. We, we, you know, we didn't travel. We barely got out of our neighborhood. Well, my dad was still in our lives. I believe my mom's probably going to get mad at me for getting the number wrong. but I think we moved 15 times in 11 years. My dad was just all over the place, and we moved neighborhood to neighborhood

and trying to get a better deal, I guess. I don't know. Just following his lead. And, you know, part of the moves was also that he left home on two different occasions. So then my mom would move back closer to her mother. which always lived in our neighborhood, where I ended up spending a lot of time with at growing up.

And but it was simple. You know, my family, outside of my father, my family was, we were ecstatic. You know, I've learned a lot in the last four or five months with the stuff that's going on in the country because I'd always viewed life in this country through my lens. And I've had to learn how to view it through everybody's life. And in my lens, I don't understand why people were unhappy with stuff in this country

because this country gave my family an opportunity to live in freedom to allow me to get educated for free to go on at least through high school and then go on to college and now become a Division I basketball coach when my family had no pedigree in academics in this country. And, you know, so, but we're simple neighborhood, man. We all looked out for one another. Nothing easy, but we didn't know because all we had was love. You know, our family is they loved us. They loved each other. We, you know, the neighborhood took care of one another.

Our coaches at the high school had been our coach and says, we're like 11 and 12 years old, and they lived in the neighborhood, and they grew up in their neighborhood. So that's all we had, and it's all we knew, and we were at peace with it and real happy. Okay. How do you reconciled the issues with your father? Like, how do you, obviously as a father yourself, and I'm sure I get it.

There's the guilt of, and I didn't even know my kids until quarantine. But you are a good man. You are a good father and a good husband. How have you reconciled? Because so oftentimes, you know, when you have that in your past, you carry it with you as a burden, but it also becomes in some levels who you are as a dad or who you are. How have you reconciled the dad issues for lack of a better term that you had growing up? Yeah, I, you know, as a kid, I always wondered why.

Why is he doing this? Why does he act the way he acts? Why is he gone? Why don't, you know, he care? Why did he disappear and never care for us after a certain date? As a man, I understand divorce. I get it. I comprehend that we grow up as adults and sometimes, even though there's love, we need to kind of get away from one another. I kind of understand that. I don't understand

how, as a man, you can get away from your children and leave your children behind. But I'm at peace, man. I'm a man now. I'm older. I comprehend that we make decisions as men. Some are good, Some are bad. And the one thing we can't do is look in the rearview mirror and go backwards. We have to learn and move forward. So I'm at peace with the decisions he made. I'm lucky. My mother had a brother, my uncle, that he served as that male influence in my life.

And then I lived in a neighborhood where, you know, like I said, our coaches were, are men. They still lived in the neighborhood. So like who is? Who is your basketball coach in your high school? Yeah, Marcus Shaky Rodriguez. And then his assistant, who's a principal at another school now, Jose Nunez, whose son is the AD at New Mexico, Eddie Nunez, they lived in the neighborhood.

They were our coaches since we were like 10, 11, 12 years old. So when you misbehaved at home, you didn't have to worry about the next day. They come get you at the house. And they made you respect your home and respect. what your mother said. So it's unfortunate. I'm at peace with my dad, whatever decisions he made.

He's still alive. He and I have not had a conversation since late 70s, 78, 79. And so, but it is what it is. I'm lucky. I've had other men in my life that filled that role. Okay. First time you met Jake you was when and where?

I was a kid. There was a basketball league. league at the old Orange Bowl on their parking grounds. There was a basketball courts. And there's an organization that's worldwide, the Kiwanis Club. One of the branches was in our neighborhood. It's called the Kiwanis Club of Little Havana. And they sponsored a basketball league.

And Shaikie was one of the guys that at the time he was like, you know, in his mid-20s. And he was one of the coaches at the league. And, you know, we were the kids, you know. We all lived in the same neighborhood. So that's the first time I met him. And, you know, and then just you're around them. And then you get to high school. And now you're around them more.

And, you know, powerful man. And as you, I know you're aware, he just passed away two weeks ago of an aneurism. And but he, he, without him, a lot of us, a lot of us don't succeed because he was, he was our father. No question. I mean, he's kind of an amazing person in. in how many people are connected to the sport and then connected to each other. What was he like as a basketball coach? You guys were very, very successful when you were on his staff before you were on his staff.

I mean, he was incredibly successful. What was he actually as a basketball coach? What was he like? You know, when you're a kid, you're like, man, why is this guy so hard, so difficult? You know, he's on you and, you'd make you, Shakey's biggest thing when you were a kid, he'd make you play one-on-one. And you couldn't fight and you couldn't quit. If you did either, he'd throw you out of the park and you couldn't come back.

And so you had to learn how to compete and get better. And I couldn't play a lick. But if I fought, he send you home. If you quit, he send you home. And you don't want to let him down because he worked so hard on the other side to instill trusting you and belief in you. I tell people all the time, you know, all Cuban kids from a real Cuban neighborhood in Miami. Basketball's never was not a Cuban sport.

You know, we were all about baseball in my family. And then as kids in the neighborhood in the 70s, it was all about the Miami Dolphins and Larry Zonka. That was my guy. I want to be Larry Zonka. And here's shaky trying to teach us to play basketball. And, but he, you know, whether, Here's the other thing. I said this to, I can't remember who I was, it was part of our racial reconciliation group in the NABC. At a young age, I never understood that we were different as people because whether you were white, Hispanic, black, Puerto Rican, whatever, he treated us all like we were one and the same. And he made us understand we needed one another to succeed. And then he had us all thinking, we could, we were no good. He had us thinking. He had us thinking. that if Magic and the Lakers would have walked into the Miami Senior High Gym in 1981, we had a chance to win. That's what he had us thinking. And, you know, and we had one guy on that team played Division I basketball, Anthony Graham, one guy. But he had us thinking that we were that good.

But that's who he was. He was really hard on us, but he made us believe in ourselves and invested all kinds of faith in us. So Miami Senior High, and I only, I didn't know this until the Super Bowl, really. I didn't realize it's on South Beach. What is that little island, that little strip called? No, it's just, you got South Beach and then you got the Bay and then you got downtown Miami. And then you've got our neighborhood, which is just west of downtown Miami. It's, it's, you're as close to downtown as you can possibly be.

Okay. You go there. This game might be why you're talking about, which is slightly just to the east of us. So you play in high school, were you good? No. No. Did you start? No, no.

Doug, I was pathetic. That's why shaky was so incredible. I was an awful basketball player. And he kept me around. I have no idea why. Kept me around. Now, I wanted to try. try. I played nothing but football and baseball until I got the 10th grade. And then I fell in love.

Our high school is the second oldest high school in the state of Florida. It's the winningest high school basketball team in the history of the state of Florida. So we walked in this old Spanish architecture gymnasium is called the asylum and walked in there. And the place, I'm a ninth grader. And at the time it was junior high, you're not in high school in ninth grade back then. And there was no Miami Heat. There was no Miami Marlins. There was no Division I basketball in nowhere. All we had was high school basketball.

And you walked in this gym and it was water wall. And I was like, holy cow, I want to play basketball. You know, I want to do this. He kept me around. I was awful. He kept me around. He actually, my senior year in high school tried to convince me that he can get me a scholarship at the University of Florida with Norm Sloan and Monty Tower to be a man.

And I was like, I was like, no, shake, I want to play. I need to try and play. And I did. I tried to go to junior college at Miami-Dade and play and got cut. And that's how this whole coaching thing got started. I got caught and tore up my knee at the same time. So then you went to FIU, right? But you weren't, were you a manager?

Were you on the staff? Like how did it existence like? No, 1984, I get cut from. the team in Miami Day Community College, they walk on trouts before the season. And then I'm trying to stay in shape. I was going to give it one more go. And then I tear my knee up over Christmas playing pickup basketball.

And I quit school. I quit everything. And Shaky found out that I quit school. So he calls me. And he's like, hey, I need you to go back to school. And you got to understand, nobody in my family had ever attended college. So going to college was not. and the list of things that I was told growing up.

It was, you know, get your education, respect school, get a job. So I was like, the only time of my life I ever... Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year.

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Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand-new podcast

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So, if you've ever supported me, or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross

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Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack, so I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you finishing that sentence. Yes.

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Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth. Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro.

Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. person. Join me, Keir Gaines, as we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hardway. Open your free iHeartRadio app, search Learn the Hardway and listen now. I should know to him. I said, shake, I can't do it. I'm going to just keep work. I was working at a bank. I'm going to keep working and help my mom pay bills. And he was like, come by and see me. So I went by the seat. What were you doing at the bank?

You're like a teller? Proof operator. That job's not. That job's not. non-existent. That means all the checks that are deposited into the bank, they end up on me, and I've got to sit there and encode check after check after check to balance check deposits for all the businesses at the bank. And so I went to see him, and he said, if you're not going to go back to school, why don't you come around and help me coach? I was like, man, it's South Beach. I'm getting ready. I was 19. I'm like, I don't want to hang out on South Beach. I want to make money, help my mom and do the streets.

That's the life. And he says, come by and help me coach. Our JV coach at the time is someone I'm pretty sure you know, Sergio Rocco also from our neighborhood. And so I become Sergio's assistant JV coach. And I fell in love with it, man. And then Sergio left at the end of that year to become a head coach at another high school in town. And in typical shaky fashion, he never,

even asked me if I want to be the JV coach. He said, hey, Sunday, excuse me, Friday, I need you to meet me. We're driving for Orlando. I said, for what? So we're going to a coaching clinic. I need you to learn. And that's how the whole thing got started in 1985, man, and never looked back, and it's all because of him. Weren't you a bouncer at some point in time? Yeah, I did that. South Beach was happening, man. That's, that's what I got it. That's out, 1983, 84. that's when South Beach started. And, you know, that's when that whole Miami nightlife was coming off. You got to understand it's coming off the 70s, which is the whole, you know, that's when

Miami took off the nightlife part of it because of the drug scene and all that in the 70s. And then South Beach became popular. And, you know, so I landscaped, washed dishes at restaurants. My first job was when I was 12 years old. and it was taking subscriptions to the Miami Herald. They truck, a van would pick me up in front of my house and drop me off in some neighborhood and I go door-to-door sell subscriptions.

I'd do that three nights a week. I was a change boy at the local pool hall. I've done it all, man. You name the job I've done. Get right to the romance and find the way to wow this Valentine's with 1-800flowers.com. From classic roses and bouquets to decadent chocolate-covered berries, gourmet treats, and more.

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of as you were raised in a Cuban neighborhood where there wasn't really excuses made. Like you had to go out and work, you had to get a job, you had to make money, you had to work hard. You had a good, good grades. If you want to play ball, you got to go play ball. There wasn't. And then, of course, you have everything that's taken place in our country of the last, you know, six to nine months, which I think has been building over time. No doubt. How do you balance out the fact that like, look, your family came here as exiles with nothing and you made it and you continue to make it.

It's part of the culture. My great, great grandparents came here on the boat with nothing, right? And I understand that there are different things that hold different people back. But when you're talking with your players about the challenges that they're going to face in their life, but also about the gifts and the privileges that they've earned. but through basketball, how do you convey what you've been able to accomplish with limited means and what they can accomplish with limited means? Yeah, I've been talking to players about that since 1985 because that's all I ever knew in

my neighborhood and whether we were, you know, the Miami River separated the Cuban neighborhood from the black neighborhood, which is over town. and our high school was comprised of both neighborhoods. And so I've been talking to our teams and players about that forever. But this is the perspective that I had to understand. And I didn't comprehend this until this past summer. I've thought about it, but I never really understood because it was really confusing to me, you know, how somebody can say this country holds you back and doesn't allow you to succeed.

And I'm saying, well, look at me. If I can do this, anybody can't. Well, here's the perspective. The perspective is that my family left a country that oppressed them, that took away everything they owned and basically took everything but the ability to be alive away from them. And if they questioned anything, they would have taken their lives too. And this country gave my family an opportunity to start from scratch, have freedom to work, live, and make the best of yourself however you choose to.

Well, I had to sit back and take a deep breath and realize when African Americans start talking about some of the stuff that is still wrong, well, they're trying to figure out how to make it right in the same country where there was oppression up until 1964 or five, where some things are still, you know, they were enslaved in this country, they're family members. up until the 60s, you know, some stuff was really bad. And there's still some things that aren't right.

I had to kind of put myself in a place. Well, imagine if I had to go back and live in Cuba under Fidel Castro's regime and try to act like I'm comfortable with what he has done to people in Cuba. And I said, you, that doesn't make any sense. I don't think I'd be able to do that at one out unless that regime completely changed. which which has given me perspective to better understand my players and where they're at and make the conversation to comprehend that there are something. This is the way I word it to our team now, Doug. Some people run the 100-yard dash.

Others like myself, we run the 110-yard hurdles. And it's still a race, and nothing's preventing you from running to race. some of us just have hurdles. Well, it's our job like me. I've been able to clear a bunch of hurdles. Get those out of the way so the next person like me can run the 100-yard dash. But I try to tell our players, it's okay to speak on what you believe. It's okay to share what life has taught you,

but also be willing to listen to what life has taught others. Because that's the one thing that's beautiful. Hey, Doug, here's the beautiful thing. and you and I got to know each other, obviously through your dad. And your dad and Shaky were kind of similar in how they went about life with kids and basketball and helping people. And life in California is a heck of a lot different than life in Miami. They're both sunny and nice weather, but people live completely different ways. And then life in New York and Miami and the Midwest in this country, man, there's, we all have free.

freedom, but we live in completely different cultures and different styles of life and different parts of it. There's no question. I think, though, the question becomes, the thing about your family and the thing about what you've told your players and taught your players for years, even going back to the high school days, is the value of education. And we have, I think sometimes we're working against ourselves, that this has been my, I believe, they're that the greatest inequality in our country that remains is education inequality.

Hands down. That the education you get in a good neighborhood is opposed to the education you get in a bad neighborhood. Regardless of race, it's a socioeconomic thing. And the thing that I'm most proud of as being Jewish is Judaism is 100% literate culture. It is unacceptable to not be literate and to not push yourself in academia. on some level, right? Don't get me wrong.

There's a lot of downsides. There's downsides to the Jewish culture, some parts of it that I don't like and I don't agree with. I think that's with any culture. And my parents, for example, like they were a no excuses like, you're going to get good grades. I don't remember my mom or dad ever sitting down with me and doing my homework like we do with our kids, but there's no, just do it.

You can do it. You can do the work. Do the work. When I had a reading issue when I was in elementary school, I got a reading. specialist from my public school and I got better. And that's the way. And then my dad would give me, he would give me one sports book. And then when I'd finish that one, he would give me one, like I remember reading the boys from Brazil, Leon Yuris, when I was in sixth grade, amazing. Like I'm like, and that was how I got to be a better reader. Anyway, your family,

you to your family and to your players, you preach education. I feel like, especially the basketball culture, so much of it is about getting paid. How can I get paid? Right? From when you're in AAU, can I get my shoes? Can I get my gear? Can I get a little side money? You get to college basketball and it's how quickly can I get from here to where I'm making money where the change that will occur with your whole family for the rest of your life? Yeah, you can become a pro. But the doors that are open when you when you embrace yourself in the culture of education, like how do we reward the great players, as they should be, to be professionals, but also to the 99% others or 95% others, let them understand that they're getting, they're getting the gift of a chance at an

education. I think people also assume that education means like that you learn something in school. It's about who you're around. It's about problem solving. It's about understanding kind of social jiu-jitsu of people from different backgrounds at a university, as well as managing time, managing your money, all of these things come together. How do you, how do we, I guess, reconcile that, that education is really important and somehow it gets lost in this conversation about players needing to feel, or maybe, maybe us as adults feeling like they should be compensated for their, for their work. Doug, I, I wish I can state it any better than what you just said. I say it, I tell our players, and the verbiage I use,

is education is the difference between the haves and the have-nots. And that's not skin color. That's not one race or another. That's amongst Cuban folks in Miami back in the day. There were Cuban folks that made it a lot sooner than others, and it was because they moved to the suburbs and got better educations than us in our neighborhood. Now, I'll use my, to your point, that one of the first things I've, Tommy Amaker and I've tried to do with the Committee on Social Rovers, reconciliation of racial reconciliation is eliminate SAT and ACTs. That's not a representation of

how intelligent you are. That's a representation of your socioeconomic background and where you're at. My parents had no money for tutors and I just went to the local public school in our neighborhood where it was hard. And I had my SAT was 780. My daughter, like she's my blood. as an eighth grader. Her SAT as an eighth grader is in 1100. Why? She's got my blood in her.

Why? Because she's grown up in a different neighborhood than I did in a different school system and she's had access to tutors and all the stuff you just spoke about. But education is what it's all about. And you are absolutely right. I'll make one more point here to what you're exactly saying.

If you listen to our country, And there's a group of people that are trying, that always complain that we protect the top 2% earners in our country and that we should create laws that penalized them for being the top 2% to take away their money to spread it amongst others. Okay. Yet in college basketball, we want laws to make the lives of the top 2% better. and deprive the other 98%. It's a complete opposite. Like, what do I mean by that? Well, we're trying to change all the,

the power of a college education is better for 98%. Well, we're getting ready to change all the rules and all the laws because of the guys, the 2% that become the NBA guys that have maximum. They don't actually need it, right? Because.

Correct. Here's my thing with that whole deal. I get the fact that. that salaries are the guys, not everybody that has my job makes a lot of money. There's very few of us that make the money I make right now. Right. And but I get it.

So that number has gone up and the scholarship numbers kind of stayed around the same. Even though we get all the perks, Doug, there's stuff our guys get. You didn't get when you played at Notre Dame at Oklahoma State. So there's a lot of been. But, but there's there's parts to it that we don't, that,

that aren't talked about this, how many kids get into school. Get into school. Absolutely. Couldn't get into school on their own. That has a value. Absolutely. And then like tuition is skyrocketing and whatever. We don't, we don't value those things.

And, you know, like I, I, I just, I, I, I'd love the NCAA to, uh, continue to embrace international players coming over and staying in school. And, you know, I don't love, I'm a transfer myself. but some of the transfer culture in that there are ways in which we should reward kids that stay in school, reward kids that do well in school. I'm not necessarily against if a guy is actually going to get his graduate degree, why does he have to, if he still represent the university and is a student, why does he have to leave?

It doesn't have to leave. But it is interesting the point that you're making because I think some people think that if you pay an athlete, it will stop cheating. It won't, right? Because somebody's always going to want more, right? And the kid that can leave is going to leave. There's no way you're going to match up with the professional money. And I think we just so greatly undervalue the value the value of that time when you're in college,

the time of there's no parents, there's just your coach and your peers. in addition to which when you get done, if you want to coach at a legit level, if you want to be a lawyer, if you want to be a doctor, if you want to almost any truly reputable job, you're going to have to have some basis of college, if not a college degree. And we kind of brush over that because we feel like it's unfair that you, who've worked your entire professional life. Like they'll point out, hey, Frank Mark makes X, right? He makes a couple million dollars. Like, okay, but Frank Martin for 15 years was a high school coach making nothing. And then when you went to Northeastern, Ron Everhart was head coach, correct? Rudy Keeling is the one that hired me. And then Rudy, we got fired 10 months later and Ron kept me.

Okay. So when you went to work for Rudy in Boston, right, you've been in Miami your whole life. One, why'd you go? I lost faith in where the public school system in Dade County was going. I lost, it wasn't a basketball thing. I lost faith in the direction that the public school system was going. And they were more concerned with test scores and they were with educating. They were more concerned with babysitting children than they were with demanding teachers do more.

And that's not what I'm about. And that's what opened my ears. But, and then, you know, I said, you know what, I must have tried this basketball thing. Well, well, I still got a chance. Okay, so did you call Rudy? Did you have a connection with Rudy? How did you, how did that happen? Charlton Young.

I don't know if you remember, you know, Charlton on Leonard Hamilton staff. Charlton was Rudy's assistant, and Charlton's from Miami. He played high school basketball in Miami. I coached against him. And when he played, and he was recruiting our point card. And he called me and he says, hey, I'm going to take a job at Auburn before I recommend anybody. Coach really, really likes you.

Would you be interested? And I say, yeah, tell him I'd love to talk to him. And we did. And then I flew myself up to Boston to basically make him hire me. And he did. And away we were $28,000 plus $5,000 for camp. And then we got fired in March, so the five grand for camp never happened because he got fired so I didn't get to run the camp.

So 28 grand to live in Boston. Great decision. Did you have to bring the point guard with you? No. He went to Miami and I ended up then recruiting him. When Ronnie kept me, he left Miami and he came to us as a transfer. Okay. So you guys get fired.

What was that time like when Ron gets the job and you're kind of in limbo? It was crazy. Ian McCaw, who's the AD at Liberty, was our athletic director at the time. And he calls me in and he says, Frank, appreciate everything you've done in your 10 months. here. You know, we had to make the change. We're going to pay you for two weeks and you're done. And I'm going to encourage a new coach to give you a real look. And if he wants to keep you great, and if not, I can't promise you anything. And I said, thank you. So he gave me two weeks pay of 28 grand. And, you know, I was in Boston and I had a one-year-old son in Miami whose mother

and I had kind of split up. And so I was going through that at the same time. And I had to pay his bills in Miami. And now I'm unemployed. And I know I got two weeks pay and that's it. And then Ronnie turns the job down. I didn't know Ronnie at the time. He and hugs were really tight.

I didn't know Ronnie at the time. And he turns a job down. And they offer it to Glenn Miller, who was at Brown. And Glenn played for Calhoun at Northeastern. So there's a normal connection there. Glenn let me know if I take the job, Frank, I'm not going to keep you. Well, he ends up turning the job down two days later. So then they went back to Ronnie.

Then he finally took the job in May. So I basically worked, not worked. I lived from March, whenever we lost in the semi-final conference tournament, March 10th or whatever, for two months on two weeks pay. It was hard. It was really, really hard. You just kept the guys together and you kept doing what we're doing workouts or what we're doing? I was unemployed.

I was just living in Boston, fighting like heck, trying to find. You didn't come in? You didn't come into the office? We got terminated. Yeah, we got terminated. We were told, bye-bye, two weeks pay, you're no longer employed. So it was hard. It was hard.

Okay. So Ron takes the job. And I mean, how did you guys get that thing going? Ronnie Hugs convinces Ronnie to keep me. And Mick Cronin. Mick also knew Ronnie. And Mick and I, to this day, we're real good friends. And, you know, Mick called Ronnie and says, man, you got to keep Frank.

And so Ronnie and I meet and he keeps me. And there's another story about when he decided. to keep me, which I'll share with you on a different date because it involves hugs and it's hilarious. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, but why are you bear? No, no, no, you got to give it to me now. Anyone that knows Ronnie, I didn't want to take up all your time on this story. Anyone that knows Ronnie. This is, this is better than asking, everybody's asked you about the Final Four. I'd like to get to, I love to do Kansas State, but this to me is the stuff of, this is the stuff. This is the basketball stuff that I love. It's before he turns the job down.

We're at the Final Four. He calls me and says, in Minneapolis. She calls me and says, hey, come to my room. I want to meet with you. So I go to his room. We're in his room to 1.30 in the morning. We leave his room. Elevator hits the lobby. Doors open. Huggs is on the lobby floor. Huggs looks at us and says, you two guys together? He says, I'm quitting. I'm getting out of the business. And we start laughing. And Hugg says, I got to go to my room. I'll be right back. I'm getting cigars. So he goes to his room, comes back downstairs. We're waiting for him. We go to the bar. And now there's five of us. sitting at the bar, L-shaped.

And it's some guy we don't know, hugs, and then us along this side of the bar. Ronnie's the last one. And Hugs is talking, and the guy next to Hugs says, there you go, you always got to be the loud mouth, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Hugs is like, come on, man. We're like, you know, we're just sitting here having a good time amongst friends. Get him a drink. We're good, you know.

and so we hugs buys the guy drink and you know we keep talking 20 minutes later the guy hugs says something guy gets it man i'm tired of hearing you so ronnie who i just met that night is next to me over here ronnie says to the guy hey and before ronnie says the second word the guy says who the f are you well dog before he said you ronnie had this guy by the head smashing him against the bar top. And anyone that knows Ronnie knows, he is one of the toughest SOBs in the business. Yeah.

And I'm sitting there and I'm watching this. And I'm saying, holy cow, I'm going to work with this guy. My God. And then that night, he came over. He goes, hey, if I take the job, you're coming with me. And then he turned it down like the following week. And then I'm still on employment. And three weeks later, he takes the job.

How did your relationship with Hugs come to be? You recruit one of your players? He came in to recruit Cesar Portillo, who played for us at Miami Senior in 1988. But Cesar went to junior college. And Huggs got hired to Cincinnati in 1989, I want to say. And now he was recruiting Cesar during his sophomore year. We met at one of our practices at the high school. And then I went to a clinic.

that he was speaking at it. When he was done, I went up to him. I'm a little JV coach. I'm 23 years old. I go up, coach, he says, hey, Frank, how are you? Am I good to see you again? It blew me away.

He remembered who I was. Well, he ends up hiring Mick. Mick and I were two of Sonny's guys that were running around all the time, you know, looking out for Sunny. And Mick says to hugs, hey, we got to bring Frank up here to Cincinnati. So they bring me to Cincinnati now when Brent Wright,

these are guys you know, Brent Wright, Andre Ferby, when those guys are playing high school for me. So I go up to Cincinnati, spend time with them. And then our friendship just continue to build over the years. Brent Wright is, he's kind of on my list. I think he's the one. I don't know if you know the story. But in 2000, he's at Florida.

Yep. And they're kicking our ass at the end of the game. And we're letting him dribble out the clock. And I think it was Brent Wright. And he goes in and dunks it right at the buzzer. Now, this is an amazing team. It's got your boy, Yadonna Sassum, it's got Mike Miller. It's got Teddy DuPay.

It's got Brett Nelson. Brett Nelson was a sophomore. What was the left-handed kid who was the one in gun? They had a guy named Justin Hamilton. They had Harvey. He became a pro. Yeah, he got a bunch of offensive rebounds. We didn't.

Yeah, Donnell Harvey. was left-handed like one and done. Anyway, Brent Wright dunks the, Matt Bonner, the Red Mamba. Yes, I'm a great team. I mean, they were better than us. They beat Duke in the Sweet 16. We wanted to play Duke because Duke had beaten us two years before. And they kicked our butt.

But he dunks it at the buzzer to send him to the final four. He was like hanging on the rim. And we all wanted to fight because they're like, yo, you don't do that. Like, it's a bad enough you beat us. That's my Brent Wright story. So how about him? How about him? How about him? Again, from our pocket, our neighborhood, the whole thing. When he was retired from playing professionally, he started his own charter school in his own neighborhood.

And now he's basically the guy that runs a school educating young kids in that neighborhood. And then you have, then you have Edanus has them like still in the NBA and maybe the most respected player in the NBA for what he stands for and his leadership. He's like a remarkable human being. Unreal. Unreal. It's fun guys. Okay, so then you go and you work for Huggy. What was that experience like? Yeah, we, you know, Ronnie keeps me,

and then we go sign Jose Juan Barreya and we sign some other guys. A couple of played for me in high school that were in junior college and the transfer I told you about. So we get real good. I mean, we go beat West Virginia at West Virginia. We went down to Florida, lost a, JJ had knee surgery and played six days later. And we lose to Florida by six, I want to say.

You know, we kind of got it going. And we won over 20 games a couple years in a row. Ronnie and the new athletic director were budding heads. So Hugs has an opening on his staff. It's when Hugs was, he was suspended because of the DUI at the time. And Ronnie calls me in and says, hey, I'm going to go meet with Hugs in Cincinnati. I think I'm going to take that job. So he goes to Cincinnati, meets with hugs.

He's going to leave Northeastern as the head ball coach to go to Cincinnati to be with hugs. And they went through it for about a week, and he decided not to take the job. So now I think, okay, good, at least I got a job. I've never been one dog to call guys asking for jobs. I had a relationship with hugs already. I'd always told them it's the way I do business. When I got that kind of relationship with somebody, I tell them, like, if you ever need me, I'm here. I'm not going to blow your phone up.

And so I'm actually at the time, I'm dating my present wife, the mother of my children, Anya. And it's a Friday in August. And we're having lunch at a little restaurant in Braintree, Massachusetts. And my phone rings and it's hugs. So I take the call, typical hugs. Frank, what's up? I'm just dealing with this suspension. I get off of it in a couple weeks.

Da-da-da-da-da. You know, we're just talking. And he says, you know, Ronnie is going to stay. Yeah, obviously, I know hugs. I'm, you know, disappointed. I know, you know, what you mean to him and all that. He says, you know, well, you know, I got to hire somebody because Dan Peters passed away, who's hugs his guy, Pete Pete.

You know, Dan left to go to Ohio State and, you know, I got to get somebody I can trust. and he says, what do you think about you? And I said, huds, I've always told you, man, I'm never going to bother you with this. If you ever need me for anything, I'm here. All you got to do is ask. He says, well, I need you. So I hang up the phone.

And I said, when? He goes, can you be here Monday? He was in Florida. He goes, can you be in Cincinnati on Monday? I said, yeah, send me a plane ticket. I said, let me call Ronnie. He goes, I already talked to him. He's aware, we're good.

So I hang up the phone. phone and Anya says to me, what just happened? And we're just dating. We've been dating for like three months. And she says, what just happened? I said, I just took a job to Cincinnati. And she said, really? When you leave? I said, Monday. And she said, wow, what about me? And she, you got to understand, she had a high job. Like she was the assistant director of financial services at the university. And, and so she, had a job that made money. She's, she's got a career. I mean, she's going. And, you know, she says, what's that mean for me and us? And I said, I didn't know what to say. So we left the restaurant and got to her house. And I said, you'll be willing to go? She says,

if you ask me, I'll come. And in the back of my mind, I was like, this is the one. This is the one. this is the one. If she's willing to help me chase my career and give up her career, are you kidding me? And the way we went. So I took the job with hugs and she stayed behind because it was already late August. She stayed behind. She didn't want to leave her boss behind with the start of the academic year.

She wanted to make sure she did all that. And then she moves. then it's AK Hugs, Keith Legree and I. And I'm like single, single professionally, not personally. And, but Anya's not moving over to the following summer. Well, the following summer, AK and I are in the office.

Huggs is working Jordan's camp in California. And I hear on the radio, Bob Huggins fired. And I walk over to AK. And AK, AK, are you listening to this? He's like, no, what? I said, they say just fired hugs. I said, put the radio on. We put it on. Bob Huggins fired. So we start calling his attorney, Richard Katz, who's in Cincinnati, and he says, yeah, we're in the middle of this right now. Hugs don't even know. So we're calling hugs in California. And now we're sitting there. It's August again, the following year,

my wife's been in town for one week, and here we are unemployed. And I'm saying, Jesus, Lord, have mercy. What have I done to this poor lady? But it all worked out, man. Unbelievable right. All right. You're at Kansas State and you guys had gone out and gotten, guys completely in like one fail swoop, like change the culture, unbelievable job in recruiting for one year and then hugs leaves. Take me through what happened so that you got the job. Yeah. You know, Doug, if hugs at state of Cincinnati, we had my, Michael Beasley, OJ Mayo, Billy Walker, DeWan Blair, DJ Kennedy. All those guys were coming.

It was done. They were all coming. So now we got to convince all of them, like, hey, it's not Cincinnati. It's Manhattan, Kansas. And Bees and Bill said we're in. OJ dealt with the whole deal that everyone knows about now. And he decides to stay out west. and, you know, the Juan Blair just, he said, man, I'm going to be too far from my grandma,

so he stays home, goes to pit. DJ Kennedy goes to St. John's. He didn't want to go. If DeWan didn't come, he didn't want to come to Manhattan, Kansas. And, but away we go. We signed some real good players. And, and, you know, but that's while Huggs is the head coach, we had some pretty good players that had left behind, but they were all seniors.

And now we get left out of the NCAA tournament. We deserve to be in that thing. The year Hugs was the head coach at K-State. Unbelievable. Hugs is ridiculous, man. People don't understand how good he is. You give him a bucket, and he's going to make something great with whatever's in the bucket. He'll figure out whatever's in that bucket and turn it into something great.

And he unreal the job he did at K-State that year. And now we're at the final four And I knew that the only job He'd ever leave K State for Was West Virginia I was with him Arkansas called, offered him the job He said, I'm not interested, hung up And they were going to double his salary

To go to Arkansas And so I'm at the final four, I fly home And we've been at Casey, you got to understand now I told my wife that we're going to move to Manhattan She thousands out in Manhattan, New York where she's from And when I said, oh my God, I'd already told hugs we're in, and I'm on the phone, and she's yelling, we're going to, we're going to Manhattan. I was like, Manhattan, Kansas, there was silence. And I was like, yeah, hon, it's going to be a great time.

And she says, we'll talk when we get home and hung up on me. So hug says, we good. I say, yeah, she's happy. We're fine. We're good to go. So now here we are a year later. Right. And I got to tell her that we're moving to Morgantown, West Virginia.

West Virginia, yes. And, you know, and I said, I'm getting divorced. It's just, it is what it is. She's going back to the East Coast and I'm done. But unbelievable, man, unbelievable ride. And then John Weefold, who was the president at the university at the time, Bob Krause, who was the vice president, who had been there for 20 years, who passed away a couple years ago.

and Tim Weiser, who was the athletic director, who is now the associate commissioner in the Big 12. Hugs resigned on Thursday. They called me Thursday afternoon. I met with them. I was in a car headed to the airport to get on the plane with hugs. I had a gold tie and a blue sport coat, and I was headed to get on the plane with hugs on a different car than him. To get on the plane to fly to Morgan Town for his introductory press. conference and I got a call from the AD and he says where are you at? I told him I'm at the house

with the wife trying to talk this thing through. I was actually headed to the airport and he says I need to meet with you in an hour. I said, okay, I hung up. I called hugs. Hugs said, you need to go back because I think I convinced them to hire you. They were so mad at me that I don't know if they're going to listen to me, but I think they're convinced that you're the guy. So I went home, I changed. I went in, met with the AD. That night, I went to the president's house, met with the AD, the vice president and the president. The next morning, me and Delante Hill went in and met with the AD, the president, and the vice president, and they offered us the job. And I was the lowest paid head coach in the league, and he was the highest paid assistant in the league. And it's the way I

wanted it. I wanted it, you know, I didn't want to be a stopgap. It's the only thing I told those guys when I interviewed. You guys just want to keep Michael Beasley, hire someone else on the staff. If you do it because you believe in me and you go give me a chance, I'm all in. And they believed in me. And I said, I just, you know, I ain't stupid now. I wanted Delante to stay. He and I had a great relationship and that meant Beasley's coming too. And Delante, by the way, he got a lot of bad reviews back then by jealous people. Unbelievable basketball coach. Unbelievable human being. And so he stays. We take the job. Here comes Bees. Bill was already, you know, Bill Walker was already there. Jacob Pullen. I bring Denny Clement in as a transfer

a redshirted that first year. And away we went, man. It's an incredible ride. All right. Two things. One, and you're a man of your word. I know you're busy and I got to go to. Can I get a part two so that I can get the, because I want the, I want a little bit of

Beasley. I want the South Carolina. I want the other stuff. Can I get a promise on a part two? The promise is done. Now, you want to do that now or? No, no. I, because I don't have a time on that.

But what I do have is this one thing. to wrap it up. Considering self-admitted not a great player, all these different jobs, deciding to leave high school where you were incredibly successful in Miami. That's the part that you buried, right?

State championships and all these players are going to college. And the bouncing around, what was it like to go back to tell your wife I'm a head coach at Kansas State? Yeah, that we here's a great story of that moment, Doug. We're in this big ball,

room by the president's office. And it's Delante and I in two chairs. And that's this huge table. Way on the other side is the president, the vice president, and the AD. And they make their presentation. Seriously. Now, they're like way on the other side of the room. They say, we want to offer you, Frank,

the head coaching job. And we're going to pay you $600,000 a year. And we want Delante to be the associate head coach, if that's okay with you, Frank. And we're going to pay Delante $400,000 a year. Delanta and I sat there and we were just staring. Neither one of us moves. We don't say a word. We don't look at each other.

And now the president kind of sits back in his chair. He looks nervous. He's like, do you guys need a minute to talk about this? And I said, yeah, absolutely. So he goes, please step outside. So we step outside the room. We step outside the room. We're like, yo, these dudes offering us the job.

Are you kidding? These guys offered us the job. And so we go back in and we're like, we're in. We shake hands and then we called our wives. Delante called his. We're next door neighbors. Delante calls his wife. I call my wife.

They're both crying on the phone. We hang up. They both run outside and our kids at the time where my daughter was a little jit and his oldest daughter was real. They run outside. They're all celebrating in the front of the house. And we're back in there with the AD trying to make plans. to fly to Memphis that night to go meet with Michael Beasley,

who was with USA basketball, getting ready to be in Memphis, to play in Memphis. And unbelievable moment, man, the joy. And then we called our moms because he's just like me, raised by his mom. Then we called our moms. And then they start crying.

It was a powerful moment, a powerful moment in our lives. And we shared that moment together. I want to pause our conversation with that and really appreciate your time. And we'll look. forward to part two. We'll do it, man. Looking forward to it. All right, that's the end of part one with my Frank Martin interview, my appreciation to him and to you for downloading, rating, and of course, subscribing. Review us. Make sure you give us a good rating. A reminder,

the Doug Gottlieb show is available daily, daily, from 3 to 6 Eastern, 12 through Pacific on your iHeartRadio, Fox Sports Radio.com. You can stream us wherever you want. We're also on Series XM 217 and 203. Thanks so much for listening. Stay tuned for Part 2. I'm Doug Gottlieb, and this is AllBall. Get right to the romance and find the way to wow this Valentine's with 1800flowers.com. From classic roses and bouquets to decadent chocolate-covered berries, gourmet treats, and more.

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